Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-05-07 | 2018-05-09 → ↓
08:18 esthlos trinque: yesterday could not make it to irc. removing the dependancy on cl-ppcre shoudn't be too hard. sbcl comes with sb-ext:run-program, which wraps a call to execvp (http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#DOCF7). if somehow uiop is being thrown into the mix, then it shouldn't be
08:20 esthlos it should be fixed if I replace the current call to run-program with the full sb-ext:run-program, and really the call should be fixed to work on ccl as well
08:21 esthlos will bbl
~ 1 hours 48 minutes ~
10:09 mod6 mornin!
10:24 asciilifeform ohai mod6
10:28 asciilifeform in other noose, ~4.5m of 7m jurov keyz eaten.
10:28 mod6 wow, phuctor is crunchin through 'em quick huh
10:29 asciilifeform 0 crunched yet
10:29 asciilifeform merely eaten
10:29 asciilifeform i'ma grind'em all in 1 batch
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10:29 mod6 yah, that's what i mean. eaten.
10:30 mod6 get with wthe lingo mod6
10:30 asciilifeform ( the way bernsteinism works, a given run does not reduce the work of subsequent run in any way )
10:37 BingoBoingo From the mines: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/D3Lfw/?raw=true
10:45 ave1 diana_coman, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-07#1810933, I'm working on it, getting rid of the git line was a bit harder than expected (apparently nobody hosts this as as a tar.gz file). Also, all my parallel builds of the whole thing fail.
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10:45 a111 Logged on 2018-05-07 19:38 diana_coman: ave1, any chance you tweak that script so I can at least test it in stages rather than 3-4 hour all-or-nothing thing?
10:51 asciilifeform oh hey ave1
10:51 asciilifeform ave1: how, precisely, do they fail ?
10:51 ave1 random point in building gcc
10:51 asciilifeform paste the barf plz ?
10:55 ave1 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dYf1v/?raw=true, is with -j2
10:55 ave1 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/a3zfz/?raw=true, is with -j10
10:56 ave1 I suspect the ada makefile(s) have a problem with some of the rules
10:56 asciilifeform this will be problematic when this becomes, say, a cuntoo port, where global makeflags will apply and e.g. mine are -j32
10:58 ave1 Yes, I was looking into how I could make the flags not apply for specific makefiles
10:58 asciilifeform ( my own ada items, fwiw, build quite fine under arbitrary gcc parallelism )
10:59 ave1 These are not modified as far as rules go, just small fixes to make cross-compiling with differently named compilers possible
10:59 asciilifeform ave1: prolly the correct pill is to find where the http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dYf1v/?raw=true items are built, and to force correct precedence in the makefile ( i'd bet that currently they are listed on one line )
10:59 ave1 It may also be something with the gmake on this machine, an earlier glibc also failed to build in parallel
11:00 asciilifeform stock glibc ?
11:00 ave1 Yes, 2.14 (this was to find out if I could make glibc produce smaller statically build outputs)
11:00 ave1 I could not
11:00 asciilifeform hmm sounds like a broken os then
11:01 ave1 Probably, I will first focus to get the stages building done, that will make it way more easy to debug
11:01 asciilifeform aite
11:03 ave1 It does have a rudimentary version, but then it re-uses the directories for the next round. Currently, I hope to get this done this week.
11:05 ave1 The weather has suddenly gone from 15 degrees celcius /cloudy/raining to over 25 with sun here, so the garden is exploding and needs some serious cutting
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11:16 trinque esthlos: ah ok, thought run-program was coming from uiop. sounds like sbcl, cmucl, and ccl would be the desired targets.
11:17 trinque did phf or other lispers have commentary on esthlos' item? ben_vulpes? asciilifeform?
11:18 ben_vulpes i'll give it a read today
11:18 asciilifeform trinque: the vtron ?
11:18 trinque yep, that.
11:18 ben_vulpes i just found my old cl v as well; gonna dust it off for lulz
11:18 asciilifeform not read yet, no
11:18 ben_vulpes whimsy is thiiiick in there
11:20 ben_vulpes esthlos: where do you want input? comments on a-vtron ?
11:22 trinque it's not where he wants input, it's where we want changes
11:22 trinque if any. if not great.
11:27 phf i've skimmed it when it came out and i agree with your feedback. primarily making it self contained, i.e. getting rid of cl-ppcre for parsing (!!1) and needless dependencies like uiop by way of classical (defun run-program (foo bar) #+sbcl (sb-ext:...) #+ccl (ccl:...) #-(or ccl sbcl) (error ...))
11:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811080 << ah ok, i was all "look at that, 0 news"
11:30 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 14:29 asciilifeform: i'ma grind'em all in 1 batch
11:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811085 << minigame would host it ; so would deedbot. you saw the trb build style, specifically http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html (the parts where it goes 'curl http://deedbot.org/deed-430460-2.txt > rotor.tar.gz.asc')
11:32 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 14:45 ave1: diana_coman, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-07#1810933, I'm working on it, getting rid of the git line was a bit harder than expected (apparently nobody hosts this as as a tar.gz file). Also, all my parallel builds of the whole thing fail.
11:33 ben_vulpes esthlos: seems your v doesn't take a head to which to press, but implicitly presses whatever comes out of the toposort; this is incorrect and the operator needs a lever there
11:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811107 << we seriously need to get off the ground a service whereby this type of reports (or say bb getting pneumonia) triggers an airplane trip for a few girls eager to do garden cutting in the buff.
11:34 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 15:05 ave1: The weather has suddenly gone from 15 degrees celcius /cloudy/raining to over 25 with sun here, so the garden is exploding and needs some serious cutting
11:34 ben_vulpes use a tempdir for gnupg's keyring; thing must be stateless.
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11:34 ben_vulpes esthlos: ^^
11:35 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, didn't realise you got more :p
11:35 ben_vulpes we're adults, can interleave
11:35 ben_vulpes at least i pretend to be
11:36 mircea_popescu word.
11:36 ben_vulpes esthlos: i would like to see it complain loudly if it finds a bad signature, not merely look for some good ones
11:37 ben_vulpes actually invalid signature in .seals should stop the world, but i don't recall offhand if that's differentiable from the no key for signature case
11:38 mircea_popescu it is, yes, and it should, yes.
11:38 mircea_popescu anyway, the definition isn't "at least one good signature from declared .wot in .seals dir" but "at least one good signature and no bad signatures from declared .wot in .seals dir".
11:44 * asciilifeform has veeery little patience left for proggies that eggog but do not say precisely where/why
11:44 mircea_popescu there is also that.
11:44 ben_vulpes esthlos: also needs a build script to produce a binary for use outside of a LISP repl; my lisp v implementation ran afoul of this years ago. ~nobody would fire up a lisp repl to test the thing. this may be different today, but the fact remains that for this to make it into widespread use it's going to need to be callable from the linux cli.
11:44 ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/vehlisp-genesisvpatch in case anyone forgot
11:46 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, an' if it's different today it has a lot to do with candi_lustt
11:47 ben_vulpes also esthlos what's with the linefeeds and extreeeeemely wide codeformatting?
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11:48 ben_vulpes form feed?
11:49 ben_vulpes shows up as speshulchar ^L in emacs; i've seen this before in other lispwads written by the github crew and don't really know what to make of it. convention of the ancients? perhaps asciilifeform or phf or someone else who's literate and knows history could enlighten me.
11:50 ben_vulpes that'sallfornow
11:52 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i suspect uniturd
11:52 phf it's a page break, historically used to indicate sections, so when you e.g. spool it to printer you get a page break at the end of each section. emacs (but so did zwei) have special keys for handling it at top level
11:52 asciilifeform oh ha.
11:53 * asciilifeform for some reason thought that this was ascii #7, 'ring bell'
11:54 ben_vulpes thx phf
11:55 ben_vulpes aaaaand in oldie-but-guaranteed-to-bring-childish-joy-to-the-face-of-the-rocketry-enthusiast-goodies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgv5ixxgTsQ
11:56 ben_vulpes goddamn i wanna BLOW SHIT UP
12:02 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: loox like a failure , the pigeons -- escaped
12:03 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i was saddened that they're apparently in bed with such jews that they can't bring themselves to sink the target ship
12:04 ben_vulpes now i sympathize deeply but the apparent frugality is at such odds with the otherwise liberal combustion of dollars that it induces a painful headache of cognitive dissonance
12:05 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: scrap iron is turkey-dollars.
12:06 asciilifeform ( not to mention, they won't use e.g. old aircraft carrier, as target, because gotta maintain 'unsinkable' mythology )
12:07 * ben_vulpes looking forward to that puncturing
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12:08 ben_vulpes in other usg idiocies, i recently found a dood who achieved the not-insignificant feat of a constant propspeed belt-drive GAS ENGINE QUADCOPTER butbutbut the rotor pitch variation mechanism RUNS OVER WIFI
12:08 asciilifeform why the fuck to use belts
12:09 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: what instead, chain?
12:09 asciilifeform motor-generator
12:09 asciilifeform we had the thread.
12:09 ben_vulpes extra weight from generator.
12:09 asciilifeform you get the fine control n-copter demands, and reasonable efficiency
12:09 ben_vulpes you can get the fine control with mechanical rotor pitch variation as well.
12:10 asciilifeform and the pitch-controllers are massless ?
12:10 ben_vulpes no, but vastly less so than the generator assy. it's a collar around each prop.
12:11 asciilifeform and when you have 17 props ?
12:11 asciilifeform collar, + servos, + cabling , neh
12:11 phf asciilifeform: i suspect there are old school historic reasons for not using own vessels for target practice.
12:11 ben_vulpes constant speed has fundamentally appealing attributes, way lower prop inertia for same power output for one.
12:11 asciilifeform phf: whole 1950s thermonuke test period of usg consisted of it tho.
12:11 ben_vulpes reversible direction for another
12:12 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, ^L is page break, very early printer-bound substitute for the later notion of "files"
12:12 phf oh i see
12:12 mircea_popescu back when projects really were in one single file.
12:13 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what's to keep you from reversing electric motor ?
12:13 asciilifeform oh i see
12:15 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: prop inertia
12:15 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: quasi-relatedly, asciilifeform has wondered why engines with favourable cost/mass/thrust that nevertheless aren't great sells in manned vehicles -- namely, peroxide -- haven't made an entrance in quadcopterism
12:15 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811158 << they're actually some of the better hull designs, owing to who made them and when they were made. not unsinkable, by any means, but certainly also not prone to break in half like the clittoral combat sneaker.
12:15 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 16:07 ben_vulpes looking forward to that puncturing
12:15 ben_vulpes because intellectually lazy americans have outgrown their curiosity, and buy kits to bolt together. "look ma, i r aerospace engineer!"
12:15 mircea_popescu ^ this is why.
12:16 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: peroxide goes through half-decade-ly popularity cycles, folks discover the cat packs are a pita, move on to propane or other low-dough exotics.
12:17 ben_vulpes anyways, lawnmower engine can lift all that you could possibly want to lift. no need to optimize on this axis.
12:19 asciilifeform whereas for 'disposable' flying machines, that either explode, or make 1way journey ( a la http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-28#1075949 thread ) can use electric engines and zinc-air battery ( that dun need to carry oxidizer )
12:19 a111 Logged on 2015-03-28 02:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: pigeons: let's scratch the arithmetic itch. approx. 8400 km from me to b-a. a LiMnO2 (non-rechargeable) battery yields approx. 400 Wh/kg.
12:19 mircea_popescu i would personally really like a metal-miniaturization school. i would like to see not only really tiny machine guns as in ye ancient discussion of anti-fly capable tabletop AA batteries ; but also tiny engines, as in matchbox sized model cars THAT ACTUALLY TAKE FUEL, from the dropper. one drop = full tank. and then go.
12:20 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: lawnmower engine i suspect will have problems at altitude. tho i suppose it depends what you're doing.
12:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, the true reason "no need to optimize on that axis" is because it's a flying machine that doesn't threaten the usg.
12:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there was in fact just such a machinegun -- and engine -- in 1970s su
12:20 asciilifeform bahahaha yes
12:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, sure, once. but as a thing, you know ? as a ~school~.
12:21 asciilifeform as a school, iirc it did not take off, requires more clockmaker patience than most can muster
12:21 mircea_popescu anyway -- lawnmower flying machines are slow enough, loud enough, limited enough, targettable enough, undynamic enough and everything else enough that even 1980s tech bound empire can handle them, even "en masse" (they can't mass well either)
12:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, but clockmaking WAS a school, back before the "you can do anything" and "you're perfect the way ytou are" 1789 moment.
12:21 asciilifeform ( small engines also come against intrinsic problems of scale -- surface/vol. ratio makes cooling tricky )
12:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hence peroxide, zinc-air cells, other 'it only needs to work for 1hour' trickery, being imho promising
12:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and observe, clockmaking ~was~. in past tense.
12:23 asciilifeform afaik today ~none remain.
12:27 mircea_popescu well, there's a large pile of veblenizers that make "heirloom" watches. but they're all mechanically made and consequently fundamentally uninteresting. talk about "Accept the form of the argument so as to debate its conclusions" failure mode. somehow nobody told them that if they do move to industrial process, there's no possible argument as to why not quartz.
12:27 asciilifeform right, i meant ~actual~ clockmakers, a la harrison
12:27 mircea_popescu mechanical movements with standardized parts, now THAT is one fucking lulz.
12:27 asciilifeform aha
12:28 asciilifeform ( harrison-style craftsmen were able to do things that today seen 'impossible', e.g. lathe work ~without slide~, i.e. with handheld cutter and 0 ruler )
12:29 asciilifeform ^ granted, this was possible because 0 standardized parts. 'cut until it fits'.
12:29 mircea_popescu and the problem isn't even that "it takes a skilled man 5 years to handmake a watch", because half-mn watches would sell and skilled people make less than 100k a year routinely. the problem is rather "are you fucking kidding me, the only way you can find whores is if you find someone to persuade women-on-couches that whoring wouldn't inconvenience their couch-bound lifestyle, wtf handmade clocks. you're lucky if they can be a
12:29 mircea_popescu rsed to open the kibble package on their own and without complaining it's too hard to open."
12:31 asciilifeform the 'half-mn' watch that costs 10bux to make, however , outcompeted the '5 year' one. ( likely because the original notion where clockmaker is used as an ad-hoc orcish 'proof of work', was ill-founded )
12:31 asciilifeform veblenism has ~0 to do with actual quality.
12:32 asciilifeform entirely constructed item, and orthogonal to the physical product ( which does not even need to exist )
12:36 mircea_popescu depends in what market. i suspect the "chilling effect" is far stronger than the actual effect. ie, in a market with demand for 1bn watches and supply for ~100mn (which was the case cca 1940, ftr, take say shadow of a doubt : bank clerk who can support wife and daughters in humongous mansion in desirable californa location (santa rosa) out of his bank clerk job is very proud, and his friends are very envious, when he finally
12:36 mircea_popescu gets a wristwatch) the introduction of the quartz movement resolved the problem, pushing supply to ~infinity bn and therefore demand first to 900mn and eventually to maybe half bn. (i haven't worn a wristwatch in like 20 years, because why.)
12:37 mircea_popescu HOWEVER, the collapse was of 500mn not of 1bn. it did reduce the demand, but not wipe it out entirely.
12:37 mircea_popescu now, the demand for "a watch made out of the sufference of small children and the tears of young virgin widows" was never 0 ; and will never be 0, no matter what happens.
12:38 mircea_popescu and even if it stands to unexamined imagination, "the $5 watch renders the demand for $500`000 watches 0", this is never true. no demand ever reaches actual 0, for very good reasons that have to do with how negative numbers don't exist irl.
12:38 asciilifeform the hilarious bit however is that the watch made 'of dirt and air' and for three cents, keeps better time and is ~indestructible
12:38 mircea_popescu yup.
12:38 asciilifeform the veblenism was strained pretty thin, to survive that one.
12:38 mircea_popescu but this is also irrelevant : local brothel offers much better deal than local wedding chappel in all times and places.
12:39 asciilifeform observe where veblenism ended up going : 1) there exists a $mil phone 2) it consists of ipboje with diamonds glued on.
12:39 mircea_popescu if men can somehow convince themselves women are "people, just like them", they certainly can convince themselves watches are people just like them.
12:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i propose this has nothing to do with anything.
12:40 asciilifeform it has to do with the demise of craftsman as a class.
12:40 mircea_popescu ie, the phenomenology of the lost is a product of the loss.
12:40 mircea_popescu this is like proposing that "look where videogame sexualization ended up" in a discussion about modern sexuality. really, what pipe dreams the pipe smokers dream is not a proper basis for argument.
12:41 asciilifeform so how would mircea_popescu put on a theoretical footing, the transition from faberge to 'vertu phone' ?
12:42 asciilifeform ( orig thread -- http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713764 )
12:42 a111 Logged on 2017-09-13 19:34 mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry.
12:42 mircea_popescu i would not. speaking of actual items, ie watches, it's not the case that every existent demand can be economically exploited. there's also uranium in the ocean etc. speaking of phones, they're not proper items, they are, like say the jet fighter, merely the sign of something somewhere else.
12:43 mircea_popescu trivial to sell vertu phones : make a proper encrypted, nsa-proof network, only allow vertuphones to connect. end of story.
12:43 asciilifeform fried ice.
12:43 mircea_popescu the phone is not an object, you understand this.
12:43 asciilifeform no more than order of lenin is an object, sure
12:44 mircea_popescu the phone is a sort of college degree, meaningless outside the sturcture of meaning that produced it.
12:44 asciilifeform this is true of all veblenoids tho.
12:44 mircea_popescu (in fact, the immense importance of the phone, and the cellphone, in cultural terms, was exactly this : showing skeptics such as yours truly that bottled hallucination doth sell on actual economic grounds.)
12:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, it is very much not true, no. veblen goods are as i said above, " made out of the sufference of small children and the tears of young virgin widows". it is an item of denial.
12:45 mircea_popescu networked items, such as phones, bank cheques, copyright certificates, college degrees etcetera are made of the ~acceptance of all~, not of the suffering of some.
12:45 asciilifeform in faberge era. in, e.g., modern usgschwitz, it is more often than not, e.g. a polyester tshirt with magical word printed on it.
12:46 mircea_popescu but see, the word printed on it isn't "please! NOT MY DAUGHTER!" in the blood of a double rape and murder victim.
12:46 asciilifeform by this logic, the ultimate veblen product is simply skulls
12:46 mircea_popescu the word printed on it is "toYOta", as in, "would you like to be my friend ? we're both exactly just as empty of anything".
12:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, recall the teeth coin discussion ?
12:47 asciilifeform aha!
12:47 asciilifeform several possible variations on this theme. but for some reason out of fashion.
12:47 mircea_popescu patriarchy/matriarchy issue.
12:47 mircea_popescu back when the germans still existed as a people, plenty of demand for human skin couches.
12:48 asciilifeform even in fdr's empire. there is a letter preserved, where he thanked a d00d who gifted him iirc a japanese skull
12:48 mircea_popescu but in the degenerate herd that replaced the nation, well... how did that go, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-07#1810844
12:48 a111 Logged on 2018-05-07 18:20 mircea_popescu: nda Gates Foundation. Was not a whole lot. Less than a mil. I made a decent fortune from bitcoins for no reason. And they are doing some really cool projects for humanity. Love their work. I have been to quite a few of Richard Stallman's talks. But still not inspired enough to care so much about OSS. I like it, but I also understand the argument for not having OSS and making money off it. But you did a good thing there. so co
12:48 mircea_popescu cool projects for humanity!!!
12:48 mircea_popescu the word "project" is not incidental, by the way. hallucinatory world would be all about hallucinations.
12:48 asciilifeform stalin, according to traditional legend, had ashtray from hitler's skull
12:49 mircea_popescu but they call them "projects".
12:49 asciilifeform ( supposedly still exists somewhere )
12:50 mircea_popescu anyway, there's a reason veblen goods end up pricey whereas hallucination excreta ends up cheap.
12:51 mircea_popescu the limiting factor on human leather goods is the "strong winds" of ye olde prophete ; the driving force of hallucinatoria is mass acceptance, meaning that the individual item value is actually negative. a phone in the factory costs... -5$. not even zero, below 0. whereas once in "consumer" hands, it's worth whatever, 75 bux.
12:51 asciilifeform i'm beginning to suspect that mircea_popescu is thinking strictly of civilization-era veblens ( faberge, lampshades ) to the exclusion of what passes for'em today, under this word
12:51 mircea_popescu so the sale is always a sham, and the "corporate phone" necessarily the underlying support should sales falter.
12:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i don't permit socialist redefinitions of words universally, this is not much discovery.
12:52 mircea_popescu anyway, let me tell you a lulzy story : so the brexit, yes ?
12:52 mircea_popescu now tell me, what is the absolutely ~dumbest~ thing bruxells could have done ?
12:53 asciilifeform dunno... admit the ukrs ?
12:54 mircea_popescu ha. no. they decided they're not going to recognize uk-issued driving licenses on the continent.
12:54 * asciilifeform had nfi that this existed to begin with
12:54 mircea_popescu to which of course, the brits will respond in kind, predictibly enough -- and here's the capper : the loss to a group of 1mn for rejecting 1k who 1k then reject the 1mn back is... ~999k.
12:55 mircea_popescu ie, having eu licenses admitted in the island is worth about... 40% of the value of the eu license.
12:55 mircea_popescu to trade 40% of the world for 60% of a shitty island... "it profits a man nothing to trade his soul for the whole world... but for walles ?!?!"
12:56 asciilifeform just how many tourists drive themselves with own hands, anyway
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12:56 asciilifeform ( asciilifeform was informed that his usa driving license worx in uruguay. but not for a minute considered 'nao where do i find something to drive..' )
12:57 mircea_popescu so now back to it : idle marketing gimmicks whereby they crust diamonds to a cellphone / put crowns on random selected poor from the socialist horde etc, so as to sell the phones/electoral nonsense w/e they're selling, "it's worth spending your time waiting tables in la, because this one chick we picked gets 10mn a year and so couldn't you (unless of course we arbitrarily and entirely outside of your control pick you)." matte
12:57 mircea_popescu r not one whit in the discussion.
12:57 mircea_popescu you know for a fact that if people ~didn't~ buy cellphones, they'd be forced down their throats via "employer '''bought''' and here it is, wear it".
12:58 asciilifeform i suspect that subtracting the rolex,vertu,patek,etc. pseudo-craftsman industrial garbage, leaves the null set tho.
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12:58 asciilifeform ( today, not in faberge's time, naturally )
12:58 mircea_popescu that they're idiots enough to buy of own volition (not out of own pocket, not like they own or make money, anyway -- which is why all the discussion re "taxes" is such lulz, what fucking taxes lmao) has no bearing ; and to propose that it's "because" jobbs crusted diamonds to one once and held it over his head is so much logicking with the stones.
12:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, can't be the null set, there's a handcrafted gentoo for instance.
13:00 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811272 << can't rent a car w/o valid driver's license.
13:00 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 16:56 asciilifeform: just how many tourists drive themselves with own hands, anyway
13:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: out of curiosity, why rent car in a country where cab ride across town costs a buck ?
13:01 mircea_popescu now i'm confused. england is this shitty island with bad weather and very expensive cabs, you heard of it ?
13:01 asciilifeform aaaaaa
13:01 asciilifeform england yes
13:01 asciilifeform ok makes sense
13:02 mircea_popescu not many ~tourists~, but to imagine anyone goes to the shithole of the western hemisphere for the ... what was it, for the food ?
13:02 mircea_popescu they got the worst food, worst amenties, worst weather, worst service, most expensive ugly whores and really, every ingrown hair conceivable out of anywhere.
13:02 mircea_popescu hong kong is kramped, but at least the food's mostly edible.
13:03 mircea_popescu have you ever even fucking seen british "real estate" ? it's like the doghouse show!
13:03 * asciilifeform has not had the 'good fortune' of ever setting foot there
13:04 mircea_popescu i visited in like... 92 i think. and very much liked it ; something that never recurred on subsequent visits. place's an unredeemed shithole.
13:04 asciilifeform what was likable in '92, and where did run off to ?
13:04 asciilifeform *did it
13:05 mircea_popescu like if you took all the canadians, allowed the smater 10% to leave, then plonked them all down in haiti.
13:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, in 92 of interest were items like "hey, check it out, road w/o potholes" and "you can go to shop in X field and they'll either have or produce through specified process any item in field" etcetera. what experience informed by 25 years' research identifies as intolerable food was then merely weird. idiots i can smell from miles away now merely counted as very strange and bizarre people. and so on.
13:06 mircea_popescu it went nowhere, i grew up.
13:07 asciilifeform aaaa
13:07 asciilifeform sorta like asciilifeform&co's usa of '92.
13:08 mircea_popescu i expect. i mean... i was walking through town yesterday, we went by a sign, girly is, "hey, would you like to take their beautification class ? matricula abierta!" and i'm like... "bitch, i probably know more than they do." it's fucking true. and the next item was "manipulacion de alimentos". there I DEFINITELY!!! know more than they do.
13:08 mircea_popescu it's simple enough : no pula! and no mani! in the alimentos!
13:08 mircea_popescu but i didn't know more than they do in ~any and all fields as a wee tyke in 92, now did i. in fact, that's pretty much how i found out.
13:10 mircea_popescu (for the innocent : "don't put your hands or your dick in the food". because to people familiar with latin and its derivatives, "manipulacion de alimentos" sounds 100% like the wrong approach to handling food.)
13:11 * asciilifeform asciilifeform recalls father's tale re the great bulgarian freighter, the 'pula', that had to be repainted when sent to constanta...
13:12 mircea_popescu lol
13:14 mircea_popescu hey, mr hui didn't do so well as an envoy to kishinev either.
13:16 asciilifeform ( oblig vysotskiy: '...И ведь, главное, знаю отлично я, / Как они произносятся, - / Но чтой-то весьма неприличное / На язык ко мне просится : / Хун-вэй-бины...' ( http://www.bards.ru/archives/part.php?id=15376 ) )
13:16 mircea_popescu lol
13:17 * asciilifeform went to dig for pete_dushenski's veblenism-clocks article, found that he is ~still~ writing'em, e.g. http://www.contravex.com/2018/05/07/what-does-it-mean-to-tell-the-time-or-urwerks-opera
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13:18 mircea_popescu a yeah, whatever happened to him
13:19 asciilifeform apparently still collectin' clocks an' such.
13:28 mircea_popescu i suppose he's the exact item that drove lenin up the wall and resulted in the eventual rape of the "kulak" : comfortable people will politely listen, perhaps, but why bother ?
13:28 ben_vulpes and in methinks the democrat doth protest too much news, another meetooist has been getting slappy in bed: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/four-women-accuse-new-yorks-attorney-general-of-physical-abuse
13:29 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, did they ever sit down and write the "manual of use" or is their usage of "abuse" still just as spurious as it was when they started whining about it ?
13:30 ben_vulpes "manual of use is how i use women!"
13:30 asciilifeform hey we're discussing the same savages whose supreme court judge famously 'i know it when i see it!'
13:31 asciilifeform so what manual.
13:31 asciilifeform next to ask for manual of not-being-a-witch.
13:32 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i'm none too interested in the specifics; i'm more interested in/amused by the long-predicted continually-lowering-bar-to-defrockment tearing the pantsuit organizations apart from the top.,
13:33 ben_vulpes and lo, isn't it interesting that as the barrier for lordship goes up and the bar for defrocking goes down, the pantsuit imitate to their detriment while the republic purges dross?
13:33 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i dun see the 'tearing apart', afaik it's classical purge-and-replace-with-politruk
13:34 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, indeed.
13:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, but they're replacing politruks lol.
13:34 asciilifeform with, presumably, more responsive marionettes, neh
13:34 mircea_popescu neh.
13:34 mircea_popescu it is not possible, and for hard reasons.
13:35 mircea_popescu that's the point of http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-ideal-social-systems-reprint/ : that it is not ~POSSIBLE~ to act meaningfully in socialism.
13:35 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: believable political careers take time to fabricate. schniederman mighta been a someone in some other context, but what's his replacement? another "first $minoritygroup to NYAG"? even diehard leftists are not so bullish on firsts after the first black man to run the show gleefully doubletapped weddings for his entire stay in the whitehouse.
13:35 asciilifeform in my head i mapped , e.g., the weinstein thing, to the sov replacement of e.g. old factory owner, with moscow-appointee director
13:35 asciilifeform possibly this ain't it, i have nfi.
13:38 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, what's doubletapped weddings here ?!
13:39 ben_vulpes where you bomb a wedding and then bomb it again when the women and children rush back in screaming to pull their husbands and sons from the carnage
13:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, yes, but your mapping is incorrect. soviets had a lot of pre-existing fat to burn down in 1920s lulzfest. usg arguably had same in the 70s, when they started with "rights for wife in divorce and woman in workplace" nonsense. it's been half a century, there's nothing left to eat in the great empire of yore.
13:40 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes, oh oh. for a moment i thought big black man had as much dick as nero, went and fucked husband and wife for a wedding blessing.
13:40 ben_vulpes $oblig-rhino-photo
13:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the fight over remnants of old infrastructure, esp. still-operating chumpatrons (hollywood etc) i expect will continue for many years
13:42 asciilifeform sorta how roman mosaics continued to decorate sword hilts long past expiration date of western empire
13:42 mircea_popescu there's really nothing left.
13:43 asciilifeform the folx fighting over the scraps evidently disagree.
13:43 mircea_popescu all that remains is the "not rock boat" struggle so as china continues to drop the pellet in the beautiful ones' cage.
13:43 mircea_popescu there aren't any scraps, the whole thing is under glass and someone drops glucose.
13:45 mircea_popescu so no, it's very much not "first, we behead the owner, keep the young aspirant manager director / fucker of owner's daughter against owner's will ; THEN we behead him, once we've trained a working class successor ; THEN we behead successor, put in politruk" cycle of nazi (and then COPIED, lifted wholesale by soviets, like everything else).
13:45 mircea_popescu it's a "i wonder which of these idle fucks would our overlords think is a best incarnation of their batshit notion of aryan".
13:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: copied how, with time machine ?
13:46 mircea_popescu that's why nyt jewry is so eager to "fight with russia", has no mention of china whatsoever. they figure that's what china'd like to see.
13:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, no, if you look at the history, the soviets were doing it ~after~ zee germans.
13:47 mircea_popescu not much after. but the methodology is strictly fascist.
13:47 asciilifeform by '34 su had already cranked through 2-3 turns of the cycle
13:47 asciilifeform unless we're thinking of different things
13:52 mircea_popescu i r disagree. take the history of say... eh what the fuck is zee jewish german family with the radios ? i'm sure i put it in the logs, albert or albrecht or something
13:52 mircea_popescu of course now i can't fucking find it.
13:52 mircea_popescu anyway, dramatized in "cabaret" (the thing with liza minelli in it, with the "tomorrow belongs to me" hurr)
13:52 asciilifeform asciilifeform's pet was just not long ago singing it, lol
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13:52 asciilifeform ( with the correct gesticulation, even )
13:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-23#1757498
13:52 a111 Logged on 2017-12-23 16:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of not-as-dumb-as-average jews, hermann fambly, owners of radio works in berlin, sold 1935 and split.
13:53 mircea_popescu Aron Elektrizitäts-Ges.mbH bzw
13:53 mircea_popescu guys came up with the electricity meter iirc.
13:54 asciilifeform meter existed in edison's time
13:54 asciilifeform so gotta be something else
13:54 mircea_popescu well not the edison one ; the one used nowadays.
13:54 asciilifeform aa
13:54 asciilifeform iirc edison's sucked, it had a dissolving tab that had to be swapped
13:55 mircea_popescu look it up, hermann aron fellow, was a sort of german heaviside
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13:55 asciilifeform ( insert here the customary asciilifeform thread re 'microshit is philosophical continuation of edison' )
13:56 asciilifeform hmm i seem to recall the aron thread nao
13:58 asciilifeform but i still dun grasp the argument . in su ~similar process went through its cycle in the '20s. and then -- germany.
13:58 mircea_popescu now, the soviets did a bunch of butchering, indiscriminate and nonsensical, 1916-1926 or so ; but under italian intellectual pressure the germans realised and structured the effort, and then the soviets copied in a year or two.
13:58 asciilifeform so contention here is re '37-38 purge ?
13:59 mircea_popescu this isn't some kind of argument in the line of "russki orcs" ; in point of fact tanks led strategies were invented by russians ; but copied and employed at first by zee germans.
14:00 asciilifeform [insert here tiger vs 34 thread]
14:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, contention here is the structuring of activity as theoretically summarized, it's not driven by events but by the need to produce the structure trees needed by indefinitely scalalable summaries.
14:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, nah, see, the ~doctrine~ of tank-driven war was theoretically produced, as a necessary logical step, by russian staff, including a young zhukov. but the russian industry lacked the means to make the needed items.
14:01 mircea_popescu the german -- didn't lack ; and in the upheaval, the political barriers to innovation turned out to be also weak. so they made.
14:02 * asciilifeform wonders why modern students read guderian, but (typically) not zhukov
14:03 mircea_popescu because stalin was an idiot.
14:07 asciilifeform i suspect that if had had been slightly smarter, along the axis contemplated here, he would prolly be remembered as just another purged d00d, along with tuhachevsky
14:15 mircea_popescu possibly, sure.
14:15 mircea_popescu i can't imagine zhukov purging him, but then again my imagination isn't the arbiter of history.
14:15 mircea_popescu also, though, not being purged isn't the end all be all summum bonum.
14:16 mircea_popescu the idea is to not get purged by idiots, not to not get purged in general. zhukov thinks he can be a better stalin than stalin, what's stalin's objective incentive to get in the way ? fucking let him.
14:20 asciilifeform the folx who 'let' , prolly existed, but we will not know who they were.
14:21 mircea_popescu sure, we do. cincinnatus, rite ?
14:21 asciilifeform rite, him
14:22 asciilifeform can count them on fingers.
14:23 mircea_popescu so what's wrong with fingers, now.
14:24 mircea_popescu and for that matter, what's wrong with you not knowing who they were.
14:25 mircea_popescu ask god when your time comes, who they were. just as soon he's done with explaining turbulent flow he'll explain history to you, too.
14:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i tell you though, the sad situation where all that's left to gather around your piss-soaked body is beria, hruschev, malenkov etcetera...
14:33 mircea_popescu i can't figure how it'd be worth anyone's time.
14:38 mircea_popescu and in today's dollop of hysterical lulz : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin manages to go through 10k words without even mentioning the nevzorov sisters, coincidentally the reason the fuckbuddy of some old imperial chick even got to be stalin's successor.
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14:43 asciilifeform lol readmoar engl pediwikia!11
14:43 asciilifeform i'd expect it similarly shines across the board
14:44 mircea_popescu the repository of collective knowledge, right ? uuga-booga.
14:46 mircea_popescu anyway. would ~you~ want valy golubtsova's bf in the fucking room even ? fucktard was so stupid i have doubts he could even add on his own power.
14:46 mircea_popescu in short -- stalin didn't have it so well, to the degree being purged is not directly nor obviously a worse fate.
14:47 mircea_popescu https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Valeria_Golubtsova << check out her wiki page, too!
14:48 asciilifeform d00d died and left, literally, a coupla old shirts. but he wasn't 'in it for the living well', afaik simply enjoyed 'playing civ1'
14:48 mircea_popescu i... guess.
14:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 404
14:48 mircea_popescu ikr.
14:48 mircea_popescu she, somehow, is not HEROINE OF FEMINISM.
14:49 mircea_popescu notwithstanding she has 100% of the cv bullet points that recommended HEROINE OF FEMINISM pantsuited hilarity for a run at the presidency.
14:50 mircea_popescu even promoted a fucktard with her own ass. literally.
~ 38 minutes ~
15:28 mircea_popescu in other items-for-the-mentally-voracious : https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/ezhovinterrogs.html
15:29 mircea_popescu (apparently some guy collected and translated to english the litany of yehzov confessions.)
15:30 mircea_popescu grover furr's page ( https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/ ) more universally interesting than just soviet early history, at that.
15:31 * asciilifeform tries to read original, manually guesses encoding, and very 1st word is the canonical бНОПНЯ ..!
15:31 asciilifeform !#s бНОПНЯ
15:31 a111 10 results for "бНОПНЯ", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%D0%B1%D0%9D%D0%9E%D0%9F%D0%9D%D0%AF
15:32 mircea_popescu lel
15:32 asciilifeform ( spoiler: it's 1251, not koi8 )
15:32 mircea_popescu <title>��������� �.�. ����� 1939</title>
15:33 mircea_popescu "I term these sources "semi-official" since they are quoted unproblematically by all the anticommunist scholars. These scholars ignore them almost completely, and ignore their implications completely, but they do not consider the documents false."
15:34 mircea_popescu turns out the learned distrust and ample spite for "scientists", "researchers", "academics" and other indistinct products of the bologna system is strictly universal.
~ 21 minutes ~
15:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: why, out of curiosity, 'bologna system'
16:04 asciilifeform in re ezhov's confessions, i have no particular structure on which to hang the post-sov 'canonical' interpretation where they're 'scripted and 100% rubbish'
16:05 asciilifeform afaik , ~100% of the claimed 'how i organized failed coup' detail is , by itself, plausible.
~ 27 minutes ~
16:33 BingoBoingo Still alive, weather today is humid with a side of SMOG!
16:33 asciilifeform ohai BingoBoingo
16:33 BingoBoingo I hate these people so very much
16:33 asciilifeform unrelatedly, jurov collection expected to be fully eaten in 3-4 hrs. mircea_popescu , trinque , if you feel like switching on phuctor-deedbot-ticker prior to the 7mil keys being crunched, lemme know. ( if not , also say, then i'ma run it without waiting )
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16:34 asciilifeform keep in mind that there is not currently a simple knob to display ~solely~ those mods that will pop from this run.
16:35 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: what have they done nao?
16:36 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Went to the Department of Identity today. Stood in three seperate lines waiting to be called. The result was a piece of paper I have to bring back next week to actually get the cedula.
16:37 BingoBoingo An hour and a half of waiting.
16:37 asciilifeform i thought this was the expected output ?
16:37 BingoBoingo The operational aspect that burnedd an hour and a half was maliciously malcnstructed.
16:38 asciilifeform sounds quite like 'dmv' back home, neh
16:38 BingoBoingo The last longest wait was 45 minutes, AFTER the photo et al. To get the come back next week paper.
16:40 BingoBoingo And the air today has far too much humidity and not enough oxygen
16:41 * asciilifeform definitely had some 'how do they breathe here' episodes in BingoBoingostan.
16:42 BingoBoingo I'd really like the chance to try a desert next if I survive this place.
16:42 asciilifeform kazahstan is waiting...
16:43 * asciilifeform admits that he would also muchly prefer desert; humid hell over here also
16:43 BingoBoingo I was thinking more Chile or Mexico
16:43 mod6 santiago?
16:43 asciilifeform chile got, iirc, no fiber
16:43 mod6 ah
16:43 BingoBoingo Maybe next place doesn't need great fiber?
16:44 asciilifeform what does BingoBoingo intend to do in the place without great fiber ?
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16:45 BingoBoingo dial up?
16:45 BingoBoingo Run new fiber?
16:47 BingoBoingo Herd goats?
16:48 asciilifeform ah if goat retirement, then sure
16:49 * asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo being brought the year's new blocks, on cdrom, on camel
16:49 BingoBoingo Alpaca
16:51 BingoBoingo And to top it all off, as much as my walking speed has slowed today, THEY STILL WON'T STOP STOPPING
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16:51 ben_vulpes gotta see into the future, know which will stop and not be behind them
16:51 ben_vulpes protip: it's all of them
16:52 asciilifeform funnily enuff, the thing i liked most about expedition to BingoBoingo , and miss the most today : having worthwhile places to walk to
16:53 BingoBoingo Having places to walk to is fine. Having bipedal pollution constantly interupting the journey there...
17:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/trials_ezhovshchina_update0710.html << notbad, and pretty much exactly the conclusion asciilifeform drew from the $sources , yrs ago
17:02 asciilifeform 'Why do the anticommunist "scholars", both in Russia and the West, ignore all this evidence? Why do they continue to promote the false notions that no conspiracies existed and that Stalin, not Ezhov, decided to execute hundreds of thousands of innocent people? The only possible explanation is that they do this for ideological reasons alone. The truth, as established by an examination of the primary source evidence, would make Stalin
17:02 asciilifeform and the Bolsheviks "look good" to most people.' etc
17:10 asciilifeform https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/int/lredgod.html << also of interest.
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
18:16 mircea_popescu heh.
18:16 mircea_popescu "scholarship" in english, on any topics whatsoever, is a thin calico indeed.
18:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, "bologna system" because of the name of the cheap salami. seems perfectly adequate.
18:18 mircea_popescu it's also the moment oxford fell off my map.
18:19 mircea_popescu anyway, re confession, the "I think it essential that I inform the investigation of a series of new facts concerning my moral-personal dissoluteness. I mean my longtime vice of homosexuality." part is, at the very least, truthful as far as anyone knows (and corroborated, histortically)
18:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811442 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805125
18:23 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 20:44 asciilifeform: what does BingoBoingo intend to do in the place without great fiber ?
18:23 a111 Logged on 2018-04-24 15:22 mircea_popescu: show sorrentino how it's done.
18:35 BingoBoingo Also think of all the confusion to result if the next BingoBoingo move ends up rolling Paraguay
~ 23 minutes ~
18:59 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/05/acid-attacks-growing-as-a-cornerstone-of-new-ingsoc-culture/ << Qntra - Acid Attacks Growing As A Cornerstone of New Ingsoc Culture
~ 16 minutes ~
19:16 * BingoBoingo uploads pictures from Today's adventure
19:28 mircea_popescu ahah
~ 27 minutes ~
19:56 BingoBoingo !!up pete_dushenski
19:56 deedbot pete_dushenski voiced for 30 minutes.
19:57 pete_dushenski thx bb
19:58 pete_dushenski time flies when you're, well, kulaking
19:59 BingoBoingo It happens
19:59 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811310 << were you digging for this one ? http://www.contravex.com/2017/10/29/unearthing-beauty-the-lower-rungs-of-the-art-patrons-ladder-and-a-newfound-appreciation-of-time/#footnote_5_19813
19:59 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 17:17 asciilifeform went to dig for pete_dushenski's veblenism-clocks article, found that he is ~still~ writing'em, e.g. http://www.contravex.com/2018/05/07/what-does-it-mean-to-tell-the-time-or-urwerks-opera
20:01 pete_dushenski even though contravex doesn't pop up here anymore, i get a kick out of the fact that it's still mostly #t'ers and former #t'ers who comment there. i guess this place still is the ballsiest nook of the net no matter what.
20:03 BingoBoingo Well, we will still be here when the kids are done raising you.
20:05 pete_dushenski heh. my goal is to beat them in every sport until they're bar mitzvah'd, by which point they'll be little men and i should be well and retire-ready.
20:07 * BingoBoingo almost done notating pictures
20:07 pete_dushenski i could see all of #t in south america by that point too
20:11 BingoBoingo Maybe by that point Africa?
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20:11 deedbot http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/08/la-ciudad-vieja-and-duelling-statues/ << Bingo Blog - La Ciudad Vieja And Duelling Statues
20:12 pete_dushenski what's africa got that south america doesn't, other than aids ?
20:14 BingoBoingo Biofuel!
20:15 pete_dushenski possibru
20:16 mircea_popescu speaking of pictures, hey asciilifeform ! where's your travelog!
20:16 pete_dushenski couldn't find this in the logs (so apologies if it's a repost) but holy shit is usg.btc scraping the bottom of the barrel if fatso karpeles is being resurrected as "cto" of privateinternetaccess (vpn) http://archive.is/XusOQ
20:17 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski, ajhajhahah. epic.
20:17 * pete_dushenski is still waiting for asciilifeform travelog of romania, and giveaway book list...
20:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552627
20:17 a111 Logged on 2016-10-04 14:19 mircea_popescu: and in other fucking nonsense, freenode has decided to redirect ALL inbound links to its most recent web page, to advertise to the world privateinternetaccess.com, ie the nsa front ; and their derpitude in support of "resurrecting tor". this of course includes all old manual pages and everything else.
20:18 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: fatso even lost like 20 kilos in prison, so less-fatso now!
20:18 mircea_popescu but did he know you can put mac and cheese on a pizza and it'd taste assewome!
20:19 pete_dushenski lol he'll figure that out the day after he figures out that being "rich" means that you don't have to beg for jobs and "second chances"
20:19 mircea_popescu anyway, even that cockpuppet keiser is back "opining" on prices and matters. because http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/ is 4 years ago so everyone magically forgot it.
20:21 pete_dushenski so many experts, so little expertise
20:26 pete_dushenski just finished reading "NYT #1" (aren't they all) book by yuval harari - homo deus - in which this ~historian~ goes on and on about ai taking ur jerbs, magick biotech pills that will turn us into supermen, and other technodystopianist nonsense. had dude shut up after first 2/3rds of the book and stuck with the history of human technological progress
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20:26 pete_dushenski , it would've been a winner. but no, he had had to usg.gavin all over the place and draw dumb straight lines into infinity.
20:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-09#1811482 << should be interesting to see how all the computing, fabrication, rocketry, mining etc threads converge into actual geointerdicted republican-only zone.
20:26 a111 Logged on 2018-05-09 00:11 BingoBoingo: Maybe by that point Africa?
20:27 pete_dushenski doesn't that defeat the advantage of decentralisation ? or are you thinking many such zones ?
20:29 mircea_popescu by the time our automated batteries defend our own mining bots and nobody else can even be online unless they're doing what told, "decentralisation" per se is a rather meaningless concept.
20:29 mircea_popescu decentralization is only meaningful in a structure which permits centrality.
20:30 mircea_popescu much like whining to mommy works in the middle class "atomic family" not in the orphanage.
20:33 pete_dushenski by that time there will also be a handful of accepted definitions of "online", none intersecting.
20:33 pete_dushenski as there increasingly are even today, i suppose
20:34 mircea_popescu indeed.
20:34 mircea_popescu for instance -- the us army thinks itself online ; a ridiculous claim.
20:35 pete_dushenski lol right. they're online like fortnite is online
20:36 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-04#1792908 << fwiw i have no plans to take the bot directory down
20:36 a111 Logged on 2018-04-04 05:42 lobbes: not sure if pete_dushenski is ever coming around again or what, so I went ahead and created a page for the tsmr bot directory: http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html
20:37 pete_dushenski it's still getting a small and hopefully useful amount of traffic
20:40 mircea_popescu so how do you update it ?
20:41 pete_dushenski i still check for my name in the logs a couple times a week so that's one. another is comment somewhere on contravex or e-mail.
20:43 mircea_popescu ah.
20:44 pete_dushenski off for now, cheers #t!
20:47 BingoBoingo !Q later tell pete_dushenski I forgot to ask... Did you want to rack a time standard of some sort with Pizarro? A lot are already 19in 1U rackmount. Can plug it into a rockchip.
20:47 lobbesbot BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
~ 19 minutes ~
21:07 mircea_popescu meanwhile in hats, https://78.media.tumblr.com/63f1e11701ec85e89e1fc96f6a664b21/tumblr_p7tpwgfPgV1rlma8ho2_1280.jpg
21:16 asciilifeform aaaand the jurov keyz are in.
21:25 asciilifeform nobody said anything re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811423 so i'ma fire it nao
21:25 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 20:33 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, jurov collection expected to be fully eaten in 3-4 hrs. mircea_popescu , trinque , if you feel like switching on phuctor-deedbot-ticker prior to the 7mil keys being crunched, lemme know. ( if not , also say, then i'ma run it without waiting )
21:30 asciilifeform https://archive.li/PaTck << last snapshot prior to firing
21:31 esthlos trinque mircea_popescu phf ben_vulpes mircea_popescu et al: http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-version-2/
21:32 trinque esthlos: ah neato. I need to get you into the RSS list.
21:32 esthlos http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-version-2/ << I'm using tabs as 4 spaces, and I see the code as <80 col. what's your set up?
21:32 esthlos whoops i mean http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811142
21:32 a111 Logged on 2018-05-08 15:47 ben_vulpes: also esthlos what's with the linefeeds and extreeeeemely wide codeformatting?
21:33 esthlos trinque: that would be cool
21:33 * trinque tends to think tabs are ill-suited to lisp
21:35 esthlos trinque: why's that?
21:35 trinque the syntax looks like shit the moment two items at the same level in the AST don't line up
21:36 asciilifeform ^
21:36 esthlos very true. have you tried smart tabs?
21:36 esthlos https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SmartTabs
21:39 trinque baking in an emacsism is another unnecessary dep imho
21:40 * trinque uses, and practically lives in emacs, yet holds this opinion.
21:42 asciilifeform esthlos: is there a particular reason you stuffed it in a tgz, rather than to leave it web-readable ?
21:43 esthlos asciilifeform: afaik I haven't. what link are you using?
21:43 asciilifeform hm nm
21:43 asciilifeform i hallucinated it
21:43 esthlos huh
21:44 asciilifeform was using shitbrowser that refused to display a .lisp
21:44 esthlos mine does as well
21:44 asciilifeform and ugh this is not readable
21:44 trinque eventually, of course, thing needs to be a genesis vpatch
21:44 asciilifeform massive islands of inexplicable whitespace mid-lines
21:44 esthlos ok, I can fix it in 2 min. sec
21:45 asciilifeform and from where came the dependency on cl-ppcre ?
21:45 trinque asciilifeform: already addressed in his thing there
21:45 asciilifeform aa hm
21:46 trinque pretty well organized
21:46 asciilifeform indeed
21:47 trinque anyhow esthlos most folks here (I assume) slam their lisp code through a formatter at each return, or similar
21:47 * trinque has been using this aggressive-indent thing for a bit, does at each press
21:47 esthlos asciilifeform: removed indents, try now
21:48 esthlos I had a ton of lag with that thing, but was on crappy lappy I suppose
21:48 asciilifeform muchbetter, ty
21:48 asciilifeform trinque: i also use slime with aggression, yes
21:48 asciilifeform ( and not only for lisp )
21:48 asciilifeform err, aggressive indent, in general
21:49 * trinque uses whole computer with aggression
21:49 asciilifeform lol
21:49 esthlos lol
21:50 esthlos http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/why_i_despise_paredit.html if you haven't seen
21:50 esthlos I saw xah fellow here at some point
21:51 asciilifeform esthlos: i wrote to him and he actually showed up. but didn't stick, apparently he prefers the sad loner life
22:05 mircea_popescu would have been so fucking sweet if we didn't have to say that about fucking emacs, and tex.
22:06 asciilifeform in other noose, phuctor-werker nao occupies 112G at peak.
22:08 mircea_popescu what was that box, 256g ?
22:08 asciilifeform roughly speaking, the data set can double in mass one more time, before asciilifeform has to ask for a mechanical disk to be fitted to dulap ( writing 256+GB/day will annihilate ssd in a coupla months ) and get used to much slower run
22:08 asciilifeform 256
22:09 asciilifeform and before anybody asks, no room for moar, nor are opteron boxes where moar fits, easily obtainable
22:09 mircea_popescu eh, ssd disks aren't that expensive. this doubles as an effective ssd tester bed.
22:09 asciilifeform getting them to the orbit is expensive.
22:10 asciilifeform and they will fail in sync, whole raid at once, i suspect.
22:12 mircea_popescu so change half mid-term.
22:12 deedbot http://blog.esthlos.com/a-vtron/ << esthlos - A Vtron
22:12 deedbot http://blog.esthlos.com/mp-wp-setup/ << esthlos - Setting up mp-wp
22:12 deedbot http://blog.esthlos.com/a-brief-overview-of-eucrypts-mpi-library/ << esthlos - A Brief Overview of Eucrypt's MPI Library
22:12 deedbot http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-version-2/ << esthlos - esthlos-v Version 2
22:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is the plan. but gotta know what 'term' is.
22:13 mircea_popescu and expensive or not, there's not yuet been nor will there ever be an isp without pile of ssds.
22:13 mircea_popescu it's like doctor's office without latex gloves
22:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, stagger anyway, take some out 6 weeks in, whatever.
22:13 asciilifeform right, i do this here.
22:14 asciilifeform ( the box i'm sitting on just this minute, actually staggered over whole year )
22:18 mircea_popescu it's that paredit violates fundamental principle, that it encourages and enforces the work flow of manual formatting on every line. << ftr, i think he has an excellent point.
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