Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-12-19 | 2017-12-21 → ↓
08:23 BingoBoingo !~ticker --marker all
08:23 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
08:23 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
08:23 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 17749.96, vol: 28774.19176956 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 17491.0, vol: 82001.32135277 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 17670.0, vol: 5915.74651062 | Volume-weighted last average: 17563.9299123
~ 15 minutes ~
08:38 BingoBoingo First they make mantadory annoyance broadcast in old country when children go missing, now: "The FCC recently announced a new alert program called "Blue Alert" that will notify the public of threats to law enforcement in real time. "With the creation of a dedicated Blue Alert event code in the Emergency Alert System, state and local law enforcement will have the capability to push immediate warnings out to the public via broadcast,
08:38 BingoBoingo cable, and satellite providers, as well as to consumer smartphones through the Wireless Emergency Alert system," reports Android Police. From the report"
08:39 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1754999 <- it is broken anyway, yes; at the very top it works as I said: by avoiding it basically; in any case, hang on until tomorrow as next chapter will have to be patching this and sorting it out
08:39 a111 Logged on 2017-12-20 01:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754868 << this wasnt finished. that thing does nuffin , regardless of the loop termination condition
~ 1 hours 39 minutes ~
10:19 diana_coman for the very impatient: caller fails on the cases where it uses that broken macro i.e. any shift by a multiple of BITS_PER_MPI_LIMB; 0 is just one case, not the only one; further up, caller avoids the issue, as stated
~ 16 minutes ~
10:35 mod6 nice work diana_coman
10:36 diana_coman thanks mod6!
10:36 mod6 :]
10:37 diana_coman thing is now I'm even *less* comfortable using that whole mpi thing... makes me wonder what else is in there and not yet spotted
10:37 mod6 aha.
10:39 asciilifeform esp. spicy considering that it is taken straight from mircea_popescu ( and prolly just about everybody else's ) gpg
10:40 diana_coman asciilifeform, myeah, I suspect it's still widely used in fact; if I get any time I'll take a peak at latest I suppose
10:40 asciilifeform afaik 2.x gpg uses wholly unrelated crapola
10:41 diana_coman in other words a whole new set of worms, veryverynice
10:41 asciilifeform aha.
10:45 mod6 yeah
~ 22 minutes ~
11:07 diana_coman so I just did a quick curl for latest gpg, 2.2.4; at least in name ~everything is changed ofc, but it's a load of lol to do a plain grep -r "workaround" .
~ 36 minutes ~
11:44 mircea_popescu heh.
11:46 asciilifeform in other noose, trinque's pill worked, but the gcc5.x item was not needed
11:46 mircea_popescu "mp, why isn't your infinite world update, announced LAST YEAR, live yet ?!?!" "because ints don't work on computers. also because merely rewriting the crypto layer ain't fucking enough. and also because FUCK YOUR UGLY ASS MOTHER AND THE IDIOT DRUNKS SHE KEEPS FUCKING, FUCKO!"
11:47 asciilifeform emerge -e world , on gcc4.9, did the trick.
11:47 asciilifeform ( took about 2hrs on this box )
11:47 trinque hm cool. I'll remove it and see if I can do same, 6 -> 4
~ 20 minutes ~
12:07 danielpbarron who is saying that about eulora? i'm not in any rush. whenever there is a drastic change it makes me more nervous than excited, because now I gotta re-figure everything out again
12:08 mircea_popescu Lp
12:09 mircea_popescu i just get pissy when my brilliant ideas can't be implemented like, the next day.
12:09 mircea_popescu but look on the bright side danielpbarron : if that process ain't making you a scientist, nothing will.
12:10 diana_coman heh, in good old traditions of a long-gone world and age, eulorans are rather suspicious of change and they aren't old even!!
12:10 mircea_popescu for srs
12:11 mircea_popescu funny how the "days gone by" immediately reconstruct themselves just as soon as one ditches the rotten principles preventing them.
12:11 diana_coman aha
12:12 BingoBoingo And on tonight's agenda, a spanish test
12:13 mircea_popescu suerte!
12:14 BingoBoingo Gracias. Ought to be a valuable cultural immersion experience.
12:18 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
12:18 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16607.0, vol: 32318.56936603 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16573.0, vol: 84487.14105495 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16226.4, vol: 6052.27874841 | Volume-weighted last average: 16564.8695686
12:28 asciilifeform meanwhile, in archaeology dept, http://www.landley.net/code/tinycc
12:29 asciilifeform ^ summary: one-time inheritor of bellard's 'tinycc' , gave up over, supposedly, versioncontrol wank
12:31 mircea_popescu i can believe it.
12:33 phf that explains why when i tried building it it was chasing compatibility bugs down a rabbit hole
12:37 phf "then told me that I had to abandon my cleanup work and start over on his tree, and explain everything to his satisfaction (as a Windows guy) before it could go in"
12:38 mircea_popescu ahahaha what
12:39 mircea_popescu is this like... V before V, ie, all-the-disadvantages-and-no-more ?
12:40 phf But these days, my complaint is that I have no confidence whatsoever in
12:40 phf tinycc's maintainership. It has the tinycc.org domain, and Fabrice
12:40 phf handed over the project, so it is the official final resting place of
12:40 phf tcc. But it's still stagnant, because Fabrice put a Windows developer
12:40 phf in charge of the project, one who apparently does not understand open
12:40 phf source development in the slightest. He's putting out a windows-only
12:40 phf version of tcc as far as I can tell, one which will never build an
12:40 phf unmodified Linux kernel (has made zero progress on this front in the
12:40 phf past _THREE_YEARS_), thus it cannot ever act as (even an infereior) gcc
12:40 phf replacement.
12:41 mircea_popescu so why's he not took it over ?
12:42 phf i think he doesn't like that they keep poaching his changes back into official cvs
12:42 phf selectively
12:50 shinohai < 24 hours on Coinbase, an already BitcoinCrash is fucking it up: http://archive.is/TbQpP
12:51 shinohai (For those wondering how BTCrash got a mention on CNBC and a coinbase listing: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/VERified.jpg )
12:52 mircea_popescu kek
13:05 asciilifeform in other noose, asciilifeform found it impossible to rebuild http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755200 under gcc 4.9
13:05 a111 Logged on 2017-12-20 03:29 asciilifeform: .... Failed to emerge sys-process/procps-3.3.12-r1
13:05 asciilifeform thing was, it seems , silently shitgnomed
13:06 asciilifeform ( no concrete clue, yet, how, was unable to turn up any discussion whatsoever of it , anywhere )
13:14 asciilifeform or hm, nm, oddly enough built after reset with -nss build of world-minus-it
13:14 asciilifeform *-nsl
13:14 asciilifeform grr, nls
13:14 ben_vulpes shinohai: megalol at insider trading of altcoins
13:14 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ain't that the whole point of running a gox
13:15 asciilifeform it + frontrunning
13:15 phf looking at their commit history there's a lot of "utf8 support in ..." and "nls ..." which is probably the proverbial fleas bringing dog
13:15 asciilifeform aaha!
13:15 asciilifeform fwiw the box appears to be stable, usable, nao.
13:16 asciilifeform ( at least as much so as my other gentoo boxen )
13:16 asciilifeform phf: what didja say was rotten in sbcl 1.3.11 ?
13:16 trinque nls, utf8, ipv6 support, all "lets bolt gendercommits to the side"
13:22 phf asciilifeform: you know after staring at a lot of bad c code and last two days worth of conversations, i don't think there's much wrong with sbcl, but then i haven't looked at sbcl code in about a year at this point. i think i was mostly objecting to overall trajectory of lisp ecosystem
13:23 asciilifeform ah hm i thought it had 'progressed' into unusability recently
13:23 phf but specifically it was small annoyances with "modern" enforcements. like style warnings, or my personal pet peeve, the fact that you can't shadow locked packages without having to unlock
13:25 phf the awfully pedantic defconstant behavior (which sbcl specific, and which requires packages like alexandria to have asinine define-constant, which for all practical purposes is what defconstant is supposed to be)
13:27 phf the fact that character type is not dynamic (which to be fair is the property of all free lisps for some reason), so if you're dealing with text, you're forced into 32byte per character nonsense
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13:29 phf the fact that macro evaluator inlines both compiled and non-compiled macros, which means that you have to manual track macro dependency and tediously reevaluate even when working in an interactive environment
↖
13:31 phf i think naggum has a rant about the last one
13:31 asciilifeform the existence of the compiler seems to be ~the~ fountain of braindamage for pc lisps
13:32 phf none of these are properties of sbcl past certain vintage though though, sbcl is already a modernization of common lisp
13:32 asciilifeform ( really ought to have a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-10#1749276 instead )
13:32 a111 Logged on 2017-12-10 15:41 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-10#1749266 << asciilifeform has been chewing on this conundrum for a while. the inevitable pill is a minimal ( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736844 ) but reasonable microscopic interpreter ( likely schemelike ) in asm; and from it, to climb back up.
13:33 asciilifeform the wedge between cpu and ram clocks today would , i suspect, wipe out the performance difference for most problems
13:33 phf cmucl fwiw was designed like a lisp machine (though it had damage done to it by modernizers already), where the evaluator + vops was you primary interaction mode, and compilation was a way to evaluate a piece of code to a vop like status
13:33 asciilifeform ( b/w a fits-in-cache interpreter, and sbcl's compiler )
13:33 asciilifeform no 'status' of code. tinyscheme-like representation.
13:34 asciilifeform no emission of x86olade at runtime.
13:34 phf and vops in turn were an equivalent of a lisp machine microcode
13:34 asciilifeform oh hm we had the thread, apparently, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605202
13:34 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 17:38 asciilifeform: also (and iirc i discussed this on my www at one point) the correct approach is to ditch the native compiler, in favour of the interpreter, hand-compiled to fit in L0 cache
13:34 phf you're not going to even approach a performance of a compiled sbcl. at best you would do is non-jited lua
13:35 asciilifeform this is possible. when's the last time you saw a cpu-bound proggy in cl tho
↖
13:36 asciilifeform cpu-boundness is rarer than anybody's willing to admit.
~ 21 minutes ~
13:58 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755434 << byte ?!!!
13:58 a111 Logged on 2017-12-20 18:27 phf: the fact that character type is not dynamic (which to be fair is the property of all free lisps for some reason), so if you're dealing with text, you're forced into 32byte per character nonsense
13:58 phf obviously a typo
13:59 asciilifeform thought i oughta ask, lol
13:59 phf you kind of have to these days yes
13:59 asciilifeform i'm not sure this is braindamaged tho: if you ~must~ have orcograms
13:59 asciilifeform then even 64bit per char beats utfism
13:59 asciilifeform O(N) length calculation is braindamaged.
14:00 trinque I dunno why orcograms aren't done the same way as image formats. doesn't need to be built into the OS.
↖
14:00 phf that's a very broad statement
14:00 trinque then the kids can run wild with their UTF128s and nobody has to care
↖
14:00 asciilifeform trinque: is 'character' concept built in ? if yes, then you have what we have
14:01 asciilifeform if not, then neither can you have a notion of 'string'
14:01 asciilifeform nor tty
14:01 phf trinque: ccl used to do it that way actually, interested parties might want to poach that code. they call the concept Rune and it's basically a way to support orcograms in a 8bit lisp
14:01 trinque you'll have to justify why those need orcograms
14:01 trinque literature sure, code? ui?
14:01 trinque phf: neato
14:01 asciilifeform and how come can't reverse this q and ask trinque to justify 8-bit c-ism ?
14:02 trinque "neener, worked for the romans" ?
14:02 asciilifeform this is how you get unix liquishit
14:02 asciilifeform and nulltermed strings etc
14:02 trinque ah we're talking about linked-list strings then?
14:02 asciilifeform they 'worked' in the sense that 'romans' were ok with overflows, crashes, never heard of what is exploitability
14:02 asciilifeform trinque: any kind of string
14:02 trinque I wasn't, so I'll let you continue on that
14:02 phf maybe he's talking about pascal strings, it's hard to say at this point
14:02 asciilifeform q is, of what is made a 'string'
14:03 asciilifeform phf: strictly arguing against 'worked for the romans' mode of thinking
14:04 asciilifeform rather than in favour of 256bit or whatever chars.
14:05 trinque ah, my point was that the roman alphabet is sufficient for one of the most expressive languages to exist, so arguments that orcograms are needed would need to explain that.
14:06 phf https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2017/12/19/the-strange-story-of-extended-random/ in unrelated
14:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755435 << this is shockingly dumb, on an excel level of dumbness.
14:11 a111 Logged on 2017-12-20 18:29 phf: the fact that macro evaluator inlines both compiled and non-compiled macros, which means that you have to manual track macro dependency and tediously reevaluate even when working in an interactive environment
14:11 mircea_popescu what do you do, vrite yourself vbasic macros to do it like goldman sachs gausscopulators ?
14:14 phf naggum has a rant about it specifically
14:15 mircea_popescu so it's 20 years old by now ?
14:15 phf heh, while looking for that rant "I have designed and implemented one for my own needs, but I find the number of disgusting losers who would benefit from it if I published my code to be too high."
14:16 asciilifeform phf: i'ma guess this is 90% of the world of 'stfu, no , i won't publish it'
14:16 mircea_popescu i can see it.
14:17 asciilifeform 1 of the very few antipoettering bugsprays available to the wotless -- writing 'into a desk'
14:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755460 << old alf suggestion also.
14:17 a111 Logged on 2017-12-20 19:00 trinque: I dunno why orcograms aren't done the same way as image formats. doesn't need to be built into the OS.
14:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755462 << because the stupid woman doesn't want to be on the reservation alone. she wants to live in your house and get in front of the tv while you're watching it.
14:18 a111 Logged on 2017-12-20 19:00 trinque: then the kids can run wild with their UTF128s and nobody has to care
14:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i can't picture how to apply it to ~text~ tho
14:18 asciilifeform how the hell to represent , e.g., the source itself
14:18 asciilifeform ... comments ? ... eggogs ?
14:18 mircea_popescu apply what ?
14:19 asciilifeform 'don't build into os'
14:19 mircea_popescu dude, dumbwoman drawings are only for rest state.
14:19 mircea_popescu broken machine uses ascii only.
14:19 mircea_popescu she can't read it nor is she intended to read it. find/beg/pay someone to get it back to smileys state first.
14:19 mircea_popescu then can resume smiley usage.
14:19 asciilifeform in 80x25!111
14:19 mircea_popescu yup.
14:20 asciilifeform on 2nd thought, neh, decadence,
14:20 mircea_popescu inferiority of inferior must be baked into every single UNIT of everything around them
14:20 mircea_popescu exactly like XX is in every cell.
14:20 asciilifeform serial , 9600@8,N,1
14:21 mircea_popescu if i was in charge of "human services" all govt housing would have on all walls "you are here ; because you suck."
14:21 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/heres-why-you-will-end-your-days-in-a-concentration-camp/ << Trilema - Here's why you will end your days in a concentration camp
14:21 mircea_popescu no further "art" is needed in that context.
14:22 phf source reading can be a preprocessor stage (which is a lot saner to do in common lisp than elsewhere), this is also how traditional tex handles orclangs, before xetex and luatex and such. special ascii sequences to represent local lang glyphs and if you don't want to write those by hand, you use (or write) a tool that takes a local encoded document and translates it into ascii
14:22 mircea_popescu aha.
14:22 asciilifeform this is pretty good imho idea
14:23 asciilifeform i can't think of any serious minus, in fact
14:25 phf fwiw bulk of these tools have been written through the 90s and what was worthwhile from orcland was published that way then. until silent takeover by latex & 1.8gb tex installations happened and none of these tricks work anymore (because the necessary hooks are so deep within the layer of cruft it's near impossible to get to them, and one way they did it is through standard file system lay out, that requires a chain of compilation stages to move files
14:25 phf from location A to location B to location C where they are expected)
14:33 asciilifeform the unix dir tree concept braindamage is a gift that keeps on givin', eh
14:34 phf there's not a single article on the subject of compilation, but here's the complete thread https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=recompile+reeval&sort=of specific test that he proposes is in https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243682048034314@naggum.no.html and the "dun work" reaction https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243737082731156@naggum.no.html
14:34 asciilifeform phf: the 'special' status of macros always bothered me
14:35 asciilifeform imho it was a mistake.
14:36 phf there's two sbcl apologists further in thread, one of them saying "I don't mind provocative /per se/, but what you were saying gives the a| impression that SBCL is willfully bad, as opposed to in development. But lumping it in with willfully noncompliant systems for this reason, | given it's version number, is inappropriate." and the other one is a core dev saying that they might add it. of course the expected behavior is still not there
14:36 asciilifeform а воз и ныне там (tm)(r)
14:37 phf even though i hear that sbcl now has a evaluator added back?
14:37 phf etc etc etc
14:37 asciilifeform did it ever fully vanish ?
14:38 phf yeah, bill newman had to rip it out when he was doing the original bootstrapping work
14:47 mircea_popescu btw that picture of matthew green is so ridoinculous...
14:53 mircea_popescu "but we were never able to find it or prove it existed." << we still never found the gnupg culprit ; and most interestingly to my knowledge NONE of the idiots with broken keys put a post on their blog, "here is the software that made it"
14:53 mircea_popescu though ALL SORTS of rank imbeciles, such as that "pirate party" fucktard, had complaints of the proofy proof flavour.
↖
14:54 asciilifeform i was abouttosay, what good does 'proof' when reply is inevitably 'but where is the proof of yer proof's proofiness'
14:55 phf i mean guy says so himself "Specifically, you never really get absolute proof. There’s always some innocent or coincidental explanation that could sort of fit the evidence — maybe it was all a stupid mistake."
14:55 asciilifeform it isn't clear that it is even possible to carry out an intellectual exchange with such folx, who have 0 shared priors with actual people. the only conversation can then consist of the lime pit.
14:55 phf oblig. ptacek link
14:56 asciilifeform phf: there is no amount of bending-over-backwards that is toomuch for these usefulidjits
14:56 asciilifeform to give 'innocent' explanation
14:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at least he links tptacek
14:56 asciilifeform lol
14:57 mircea_popescu phf basically, dedicatedly "we don't own the state" engineer-mind, the exact correlate of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1043852
14:57 a111 Logged on 2015-03-06 02:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/#comment-160814 << sweet innocence.
14:58 mircea_popescu if you don't own it, who the fuck does ? daytime tv starlets ? fat brown women behind fast food counter ? who ?
14:59 mircea_popescu and no, "everyone" is not a fucking answer. state exists to enforce priviledge against the mass. whose.
15:00 asciilifeform engineer's view that he doesn't own anything, i.e. is gulag inmate -- is generally accurate.
15:00 asciilifeform q is 'nao wat'
15:00 mircea_popescu doesn't fuckin have to be.
15:03 asciilifeform and indeed 'daytime tv starlets' and 'fat brown women behind fast food counter' are far closer to owners , than the engineer.
15:04 asciilifeform both are , of a kind, nomenklatura.
15:05 mircea_popescu pffff
15:09 asciilifeform in other olds, asciilifeform found insinuations that gcc 4.7 was at some time built successfully using tcc. but no detail re how, in particular which tcc, where to get that
15:13 mircea_popescu heh
15:15 * asciilifeform looked again at last-known tcc. it is not , after all, so small : ~54kLoc ; ~1.7MB !!! of sores.
15:15 asciilifeform only 'small' compared to gcc monster.
15:15 asciilifeform quite heavy compared to even, say, trb.
15:15 mircea_popescu or to say diff
15:15 asciilifeform and of comparable size to... minix
15:15 asciilifeform iirc phf's diff is ~6 kLoc
15:17 asciilifeform incidentally bellard's tcc is not in any simple way trimmable, no autoconf garbage or the like, in there.
15:17 asciilifeform it's apparently all meat.
15:17 asciilifeform c is simply a terrifyingly retarded lang in which to write ~anything~ compactly, even ccompiler.
15:17 asciilifeform especially a compiler.
15:26 mircea_popescu http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/P1000071-1024x768.jpg << check out where 1980s moscow went!
15:28 asciilifeform eh those ac units look as chronologically '80s as ipad.
15:28 asciilifeform ( upper-right of pic )
15:28 mircea_popescu hm. acs huh
15:28 asciilifeform the surviving hruschebas asciilifeform saw in bucharest, however, looked quite like this
15:29 mircea_popescu aha.
15:30 mircea_popescu and in other vocational training, http://78.media.tumblr.com/563edda993665378ae74ec037dd28b6f/tumblr_nkd0rtUuuS1u06pkwo1_1280.jpg
~ 20 minutes ~
15:51 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Ah, there's a few of them scattered around my Barrio, but few and usually at least dos quadras off la avenida 26 de de Marzo
15:56 mircea_popescu aha
15:57 BingoBoingo On la avenida, such a building would have been kept its bones and been given a new facade because gotta sell vacation homes. 2 blocks away? What tourist would go there?
15:57 mircea_popescu myeah
15:59 BingoBoingo Outside of tourist and mega business areas the trend seems to polished interiors while letting exeteriors do as they do.
16:01 BingoBoingo In a bit under an hour, I visit la ciudad vieja for the first time and there spanish test
16:12 mircea_popescu gl
16:20 BingoBoingo tyvm
16:26 phf mp is quite dangerous with them bash scripts
16:28 phf i think a proper cuntoo doesn't even need x11, bash scripts, lynx and framebuffer to render images if need be
16:28 mircea_popescu ^
16:28 mircea_popescu bash is turing complete, you know this right ?
16:30 phf eh it's all irrelevant to substance anyway, since bulk of computer activity amongst programmers is, to badly quote logs from memory, getting everything ready to meet girls by doing some misplacing activity somewhere where girls will never be
16:31 phf that is to say, that mp machine can really be anything, and it'll be used directly, rest of us will spend next year fucking around with dlls
16:34 mircea_popescu you seem enlightened allovasudden
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
17:48 shinohai http://archive.is/dz72r .... Something, something moar DNS .....
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
18:59 asciilifeform in other noose, asciilifeform wrote a sane commandline-getter for gnat
18:59 asciilifeform and in the process discovered that the original was ~maliciously~ stupid, there is NO reason why it HAD to return an unknown-length string value
19:00 asciilifeform and thereby force the use of secondary stack
19:00 mircea_popescu ha!
19:00 asciilifeform just as easily it is possible to give it a 'here's an empty string of length L to take a shit into, for each cmdline param, and if the actual exceeds it, trigger constrainterror'
19:03 * trinque cheers
19:04 asciilifeform dunno why i didn't think of it earlier
19:04 mircea_popescu malicious ? :D
19:05 asciilifeform well i have nfi , but it entirely needlessly drags along the secondarystack thing
19:05 asciilifeform it sits on the edge between outright wrecking and simple down's syndrome
19:07 ben_vulpes i had to laugh last night; someone at the table wanted to stake out the position that "people with downs syndrome aren't defective. you can't have defective humans!"
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19:07 asciilifeform here's the original, appreciate the horror : https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/a-comlin__adb.htm + https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/a-comlin__ads.htm
19:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you're missing the point. perhaps the reason YOU didn't think about it before is that YOU are malicious ?
19:09 mircea_popescu or perhaps people just don't think of things.
19:09 asciilifeform and new orders from moscow, were to think of it, lol
19:09 asciilifeform at any rate i dun presume to distinguish.
19:09 asciilifeform here's the trisomy artifact itself : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PlehJ/?raw=true
19:09 mircea_popescu would make a pretty great sf/steampunk/altsovietrealism item
19:09 asciilifeform i'ma paste , for the hall of fame:
19:10 asciilifeform declare
19:10 asciilifeform Arg : aliased String (1 .. Len_Arg (Num));
19:10 asciilifeform begin
19:10 asciilifeform Fill_Arg (Arg'Address, Num);
19:10 asciilifeform return Arg;
19:10 asciilifeform end;
19:10 asciilifeform this is the , in mircea_popescuine parlance, 'hole where the night came in'
19:10 asciilifeform if you return a String, that's 2ndarystacktronic . no escape.
19:11 asciilifeform ( the 2ndarystack is used to keep around the lengths of this variable-length turd that got thrown on the primary. )
19:13 asciilifeform and hats off to the 1st reader here who immediately thought, reading the ads earlier, 'wtf does it mean and who ever heard of ~removing~ arguments from cmdline ?!'
19:13 asciilifeform it's like encountering a toilet with a reverse gear, is what this is.
19:13 asciilifeform what was author thinking...
19:14 mircea_popescu ahaha
19:14 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: dare i ask at what sort of table
19:14 mircea_popescu that's a great image
19:17 ben_vulpes just my dinner table
19:18 ben_vulpes a few short seconds later the same person practically pulled a 'halt and catch fire' when attempting to use a word that doesn't mean broken to describe f. ex. chromosomal abnormalities
19:19 ben_vulpes not even use, but locked up trying to find
19:19 ben_vulpes it's wildly entertaining watching people thrash in their own contradictions
19:19 ben_vulpes "humans can't be defective!" "well what do you call it when they're missing a chromosome, eh?"
19:20 mircea_popescu it's not defective, it's effective!
19:23 asciilifeform aaaaand here: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tPv4l/?raw=true << is the tentative pill.
19:23 asciilifeform ^ used in place of , rather than in addition to, Ada.Command_Line
19:23 asciilifeform it relies , as is obvious , on the guts of gnat's main() initializer, that sets the turds . but in so far as i can tell , it is the same in all known gnats
19:24 asciilifeform if anyone knows otherwise, plox to write in.
19:25 asciilifeform aaand if anyone can think of a less revoltingly-tasting pill, plz to also write in.
19:26 asciilifeform ( there is not, notably, any possibility of a pill that dun force cpointerism ; as gnatv is at birth a cpointeristic turd )
19:27 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: grep http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ilkka.txt for 'Adagietto'
19:27 asciilifeform on subj.
19:28 asciilifeform '...this linguistic battle is inherently non-winnable, as can be seen from how every term that was originally meant to be non-offensive, such as “moron”, “retarded” and “imbecile”, always became a schoolyard insult in short order. ... This is inevitable because the underlying reality that these words refer to is horrifying, and everyone can see how bad it would be to get hit on the head ...'
19:29 asciilifeform '...Accepting or rejecting this phenomenon marks a fundamental divide between those who believe that words create reality, versus those who believe that objective reality exists and operates independently of how we happen to speak and think about it.'
19:31 ben_vulpes the real fun is in asking "what word do you want me to use instead?" and then using it in such a way that all the partizans wince, knowing that word means The Bad Thing now.
19:32 ben_vulpes in other top notch lolz, the redhat "totp" ios "app" does not provide for backing up the shared seeds.
19:33 mircea_popescu lol
19:33 asciilifeform i had nfi this existed
19:33 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: yr defectively steeped in security theater
19:34 asciilifeform only ever encountered google's variant of this idiocy
19:34 ben_vulpes here i was, thinking that a redhat product would have features like 'backup'
19:35 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: naturally they'd rather lusers not have 'lift the seekrit out of the pnoje' button, or they'll push it and write on postitnote
19:35 ben_vulpes im astonished this idiocy made it past the enterprise sales people; 'IT will want to know how to back these codes up'
19:36 ben_vulpes or 'IT will want to know how to upgrade users devices without revoking every key and leaving accounts 'unsecured' during the TOTP rotation"
19:36 asciilifeform why would the admin want to back it up ? if luser luses his pnoje, he goes to beg and be issued new code, neh
19:36 asciilifeform who the fuck 'backs up' per-luser pw.
19:36 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: why wouldja give all of the monkeys one shared key?!
19:37 phf ben_vulpes: before i finally gave up my ios, i was using pythonista for almost everything, including totp. there's some python totp implementation that i lifted from somewhere, that can be easily ported. i gave up writing a barcode recognizer, though it's not a particularly daunting task with numpy
19:38 ben_vulpes phf: oh that's nifty
19:38 ben_vulpes i guess this is new as of the lifted ban on interpreters and compilers?
19:38 asciilifeform yea i missed this
19:38 phf pythonista has been around for a while. it's literally the only useful application for the iphone
19:38 * asciilifeform still doesn't get why one would program ~on~ ipnoje
19:39 asciilifeform ~for~ it, i can even picture, nintendomarket, etc. but ~on~ ?!
19:40 phf both times i wrote anything on pythonista was when i was traveling without a computer, and i do it semi-recreationally. with automatic indentation and completion it's not particularly painful, if the goal is to get some interesting computations going, rather then you know "programming environment". it's more of a turtle kind of exercise
19:41 asciilifeform aa sorta how asciilifeform sometimes travels with a hp48
19:41 asciilifeform that makes moarsense.
19:42 asciilifeform phf: i've always wondered if it is possible to make a 'programming toy' proggy for touchpnojes that actually makes productive use of the fingers , rather than torturing user with simulated kbd
19:42 phf one thing i wrote that i was really happy with is a very simple gps coordinates to atlas grid mapper. the thing would basically draw a rectangle with atlas grid number, like p34 A7 and inside the rectangle it'll draw a large red dot which roughly indicates where in the quadrant you are. i was using it extensively on a trip through alaska, because the toy catches gps readily, but naturally can't catch internet connection. so it was a kind of navigation
19:42 phf aid
19:42 asciilifeform something like interlisp's structureeditor, perhaps
19:43 asciilifeform neato, notbad
19:44 asciilifeform on subj : asciilifeform also wonders if anybody's 'liberated' google et al's spysat jpgs
19:44 asciilifeform for offline use.
19:44 asciilifeform primo use of a good spam-ip farm
19:45 phf would make for a lovely torrent dump
19:45 asciilifeform there's no particular reason why one couldn't put it all on sd card and make passive pocket maptron.
19:45 phf because their maps are certainly shit for any kind of navigation that's not by road.
19:45 asciilifeform ( and the oblig. terrain-tracking icbm... )
19:45 asciilifeform forget the street maps, speaking of raw photo
19:45 phf right
19:47 ben_vulpes let's just continue with the apple idiocy: "try the new safari! fast, energy efficient, and with a beautiful new design."
19:47 ben_vulpes energy efficient, dontchaknow!
19:47 ben_vulpes probably tastes great with a dash of "selectively run js load from google.com, facebook.com after everything else because trackers are js dogs"
19:48 phf major reason i gave up ios is because getting a working connection proxy requires a full blown vpn going
19:49 ben_vulpes phf: rocking the 'mp01' or what
19:49 phf jesus what the fuck is this
19:50 phf no, one sec
19:50 phf samsung sgh-t139
19:50 ben_vulpes ah looks like a classic
19:50 ben_vulpes how's the t9?
19:50 asciilifeform speaking of this, anybody know of a 'dumb' pnoje that has whitelists ?
19:50 asciilifeform apparently none made in ~decade
19:51 asciilifeform i was buying one, for someone else, not long ago, and ended up with ye olde 'razr'
19:52 asciilifeform astonishing how such elementary feature is unknown today. i.e. 'NO ring unless one of numbers N1, N2, ... Ni'
19:53 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: hey, t9 implementations suck now too. no auto-updating dictionary, statistic-based wordguessing...
19:53 asciilifeform i'd buy a pnoje that supports... morse input
19:53 asciilifeform fuck t9.
19:54 * asciilifeform bbl
19:54 ben_vulpes you're happier hammering each numpad up to three times for a single letter?
↖
19:56 phf ben_vulpes: t9's not bad, it has an auto-updating dictionary which i only use for names, because it also amuses me to write like i'm from a different planet.
19:56 mod6 t9, lol
19:57 ben_vulpes pretty tragic that one even has the basis to ask 'how bad is the t9', given how well it worked two decades ago.
19:57 phf "a face book? i do not poses a face book, i have many regular books though!"
19:57 ben_vulpes lol hah
19:58 ben_vulpes i have developed an allergy to bending myself to fit my tools over the last four years; ios is one of the last bits of sand in me gears
20:00 phf i recently threw out a perfectly working dual-sim nokia something or other, because i thought i lost the battery, but just yesterday i discovered that i had whole two batteries stored elsewhere.
20:02 phf amusingly though http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-28#1214723
20:02 a111 Logged on 2015-07-28 03:18 phf: asciilifeform: my point was that feature phones are not particularly good at their claimed purpose, that buying an old nokia is a hemingwriter, and compared to them iphone has a good sound quality.
20:03 phf unlike the nokia though this t139 sound quality doesn't suck, so i retract my previous statements!
~ 21 minutes ~
20:24 mircea_popescu !!up cblgh
20:24 deedbot cblgh voiced for 30 minutes.
20:25 ben_vulpes ahaha when did you show up
20:25 mircea_popescu i've been here all day.
20:25 ben_vulpes not you lol
20:26 phf ben_vulpes: here's a phone for you https://www.ebay.com/itm/282003650097
20:26 ben_vulpes anyways cblgh logs are in channel title, if you're going to not wash out at least register a gpg key with deedbot
20:26 ben_vulpes phf: you know me so well
20:27 ben_vulpes https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-N90-Type-RM-42-Smartphone-Cellular-Collectible-GSM-Mobile-N-Series-Vintage/132438876949?epid=100040237&hash=item1ed5f8e315:g:MvYAAOSwDKtY2ZB1 << shit was my jam in 06
20:28 phf you want to be ready for when "i don't have a smartphone" thing is in full swing in portland. you can be a full blown hipster avantguard
20:28 phf haha, that's pretty cool, reminds me of transformers my parents brought me from amsterdam in the early 90s
20:28 ben_vulpes a) don't live there or care too much about barista fashion anymore b) already lead that charge by toting the mp01 for a few months c) wake me up when "i don't have facebook" is actually popular
20:29 ben_vulpes phf: total transformerphone
20:29 ben_vulpes had display on the outside, could read texts without opening the thing. had google maps; internet over cell; a marvelous little device. great camera for the time as well.
20:30 ben_vulpes actually just dug out some photos from that era, oh gracious me. macs with cameras were all the rage and boy howdy did we have fun taking photos of ourselves misbehaving.
20:30 ben_vulpes unrelatedly, does anyone know how to beat a trb into coughing up the actual raw transaction it sent?
20:30 ben_vulpes aside from dumping the mempool and parsing each?
20:31 mircea_popescu suck it out of the add-to-mempool procedure
20:31 phf you mean any and all transactions, or just wallet transactions you generated?
20:31 ben_vulpes phf: the latter
20:33 mircea_popescu anyway, in re smartphone, kids today have seriously diminished executive function, roughly speaking incapable of communicating in any manner other than arbitrary-app-reimplementing-irc
20:33 mircea_popescu most of them are too anxious to actually answer a phonecall (too much pressure! i only talk to my parents!) ; most of them are actually unaware of the web as such.
20:33 mircea_popescu let alone the internet.
20:35 mircea_popescu in short, two thirds or so of the neet population would actually meet mongoloid criteria cca 1917.
20:37 ben_vulpes even pantsuits know: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/
20:37 phf ben_vulpes: you could hook somewhere like hereabouts http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/wallet.cpp#L1117 to open a new file and << wtxNew to it
20:37 mircea_popescu neglect has destroyed a generation. when 50yos don't fuck 15yos culture takes a hike.
20:38 mircea_popescu there;s relatively little to differentiate white teenager born 1990/2000s from african teenager born at any point. which i guess was the point, or something.
↖
20:40 ben_vulpes phf: i was thinking something in this area http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#L1320
20:41 ben_vulpes and cwallettx has the kooky IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE so it should be possible to hex to stdout through the rpc machinery?
20:42 phf yeah, it'll automagically serialize itself when you put it into stream (obviously not hex, but raw binary)
20:45 phf that gettransaction code seems to do everything that you want, you could probably just have something like "dumptransaction <txid> <destination>" and then it'll write to destination (and bail if destination exists)
20:47 ben_vulpes sure, could be reasonable to dump to <txid>.bin in my mind as well
20:48 ben_vulpes s/could be/is/
20:48 ben_vulpes eh, insufficiently explicit
20:52 phf i think correct method would really be to get the transaction out as a binary array into shiva, and then have a transaction parser in shiva itself that'll break it down into a sexp or whatever
↖ ↖
21:04 mircea_popescu !!up BingoBoingo_
21:04 deedbot BingoBoingo_ voiced for 30 minutes.
21:17 ben_vulpes phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
↖ ↖
21:21 mircea_popescu hmm, anyone with a twitter acct still ?
~ 21 minutes ~
21:43 shinohai I got mine back mircea_popescu
21:51 mircea_popescu see if @bridneus wants to work for eulora ?
21:52 ben_vulpes "A federal judge declared a mistrial wednesay in the riminal conspiracy case against rancher Cliven Bundy and three other defendants, saying government laywers suppressed key evidence..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/judge-declares-mistrial-in-case-against-rancher-cliven-bundy-sons-and-militiaman/2017/12/20/49d91c24-e5c8-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html
21:53 mircea_popescu heh
~ 58 minutes ~
22:51 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755692 << think about it: no need to look at screen
22:51 a111 Logged on 2017-12-21 00:54 ben_vulpes: you're happier hammering each numpad up to three times for a single letter?
22:52 asciilifeform same reason why normal kbd is great, while 'virtual' is agony
22:53 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755730 << africans have problems talking ?!
↖
22:53 a111 Logged on 2017-12-21 01:38 mircea_popescu: there;s relatively little to differentiate white teenager born 1990/2000s from african teenager born at any point. which i guess was the point, or something.
22:54 asciilifeform out of curiosity, what is the context for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755741 problem ?
22:54 a111 Logged on 2017-12-21 02:17 ben_vulpes: phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
23:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755750 << consider http://trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/#comment-123260 ; how do you distinguish wordmagic 1 from wordmagic2 as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755597 ?
23:01 a111 Logged on 2017-12-21 03:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755730 << africans have problems talking ?!
23:01 a111 Logged on 2017-12-21 00:07 ben_vulpes: i had to laugh last night; someone at the table wanted to stake out the position that "people with downs syndrome aren't defective. you can't have defective humans!"
23:03 mircea_popescu !!up Cerber248
23:03 deedbot Cerber248 voiced for 30 minutes.
23:03 Cerber248 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODErlpxbbo: gribble lobbesbot de
↖
23:03 Cerber248 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEuexlrbx: webbyz pete_dushenski ave1 lobbesbot kjj asciilifeform adlai whaack shinohai jhvh1 mats mod6 tb0t Framedragger
23:03 mircea_popescu lol still ?
23:03 Cerber248 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEgstuxett: gribble mimisbrunnr manamex whaack webbyz candi_l
23:03 mircea_popescu !down Cerber248
23:03 mircea_popescu !!down Cerber248
23:03 mircea_popescu kinda old news.
23:04 mircea_popescu what ~exactly~ is "complaining" gonna do ?
23:04 shinohai I guess the world needed a spambot for that
23:04 mircea_popescu african fucktards.
~ 26 minutes ~
23:31 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
23:31 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16885.93, vol: 25794.54155397 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16841.0, vol: 67097.14176572 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16470.0, vol: 4690.64507853 | Volume-weighted last average: 16835.0431779
23:31 mircea_popescu !~calc 20 / 16835.0431779
23:31 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 20 / 16835.0431779 = 0.001187998141059404
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