Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-08-15 | 2017-08-17 →
00:00 mod6 ok, next: `cd /var/trb/trb54/bitcoin/deps ; cp ~/*.asc .` -- hopefully, in your ~ you only have .asc deeds, and not, say, other stuff...
00:01 mike_c there's a bunch of stuff in there. I'll just grab the .asc though.
00:01 mod6 yeah, we just need the deeds.
00:01 mod6 not the extracted stuff or anything else.
00:01 mike_c after the clean, still Makefile in deps
00:01 mike_c expected?
00:01 mod6 yup.
00:01 mike_c k
00:02 mod6 there should be a Manifest.sha512 in tehre too.
00:02 mike_c done
00:02 mike_c yeah
00:02 mod6 ok
00:02 mod6 now `cd /var/trb/trb54/bitcoin ; make`
00:02 mike_c including ncurses-5.9.tar.gz.asc
00:02 mod6 ok, that's correct.
00:03 mike_c off and running. will update.
00:03 mod6 thanks Mike.
00:03 mike_c certainly, thanks for the help!
00:03 mod6 np
00:07 mike_c ah, failed again, but this time in helpful manner
00:07 mod6 jeeze. ok.
00:07 mike_c no, it's good. see, gcc-5 was cleansed, but not cpp-5
00:07 mod6 ahh. alrighty.
00:07 mike_c so now I burn this server to the ground and start over.
00:08 mod6 heh, ok, sorry for the pain.
00:08 mike_c no, it's good. lesson learned, RTFM and use v4
00:09 mod6 ok, well feel free to reach out to me when you're ready to try again, even if not today. i'll be here.
00:11 mod6 ubuntu and it's hanging chads, i know the pain.
00:11 mike_c hehe.
~ 47 minutes ~
00:58 mike_c gah. well, that's it for tonight.. now it *is* looking for that:
00:58 mike_c CC =/var/trb/trb54/bitcoin/build/toolchain/usr/bin/x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-gcc
00:58 mike_c and it's not there.
00:59 mike_c try again tomorrow.
01:13 mod6 !~later tell mike_c hmm, ok thanks, we'll work through it.
01:13 jhvh1 mod6: The operation succeeded.
01:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5BEFD0E92BFE1675D28A97B03E2B8EC76840F1CD640FAC1CC06EA3CFD3F75147 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1600...6519 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.174.66.34 (ssh-rsa key from 79.174.66.34 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (4422.ovz-ssd8.hc.ru. RU)
01:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5BEFD0E92BFE1675D28A97B03E2B8EC76840F1CD640FAC1CC06EA3CFD3F75147 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1641...9043 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.174.66.34 (ssh-rsa key from 79.174.66.34 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (4422.ovz-ssd8.hc.ru. RU)
~ 1 hours 28 minutes ~
02:51 BingoBoingo !~later tell cazalla tyvm, but stahp trying to do the email thing. Textpast and !~later tell like a normal person. Email doesn't work better than 60% reliable anymore.
02:51 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
02:52 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/08/google-godaddy-and-coinbase-go-political-kill-accounts-for-conservative-action-and-advocacy/ << Qntra - Google, Godaddy, And CoinBase Go Political – Kill Accounts For Conservative Action And Advocacy
02:53 mircea_popescu use coinbase, derp about bitcoin. then i'm supposed to distinguish these yokels from any other yokels because why the fuck, their mommy dropped them on their head in a very special way or something ?
02:54 mircea_popescu for the same money as confusing bitcoin and usglade i might confuse andrew anglin for michael moore.
02:54 mircea_popescu hey, both have superhero style names, close enough.
~ 24 minutes ~
03:19 BingoBoingo Well, Monday it came out that the organizer of the Charlottesville rally was a Obama voter and BernieBro until a week after Trump was elected. They are fungible!
03:20 mircea_popescu heh
03:28 BingoBoingo Seriously though, the motherfuckers will do the whole "I r dissident" song and dance, playing into the USG cartoon image of Nazis. BUT they refuse to extricate themselves from Actual Spyops like Coinbase.
03:35 mircea_popescu trufax.
03:35 * mircea_popescu is very much unconvinced ANY usian "dissidents", "alt right", "nazi" or whatever else would last five minutes after costco cancels their cable subscription or w/e.
03:35 mircea_popescu so...
03:41 mircea_popescu now i'm re-reading alf's curation of naggum, and the last item there is...
03:41 mircea_popescu "the only _important_ property of evils of the past is that they not be repeated in the future, in any way, shape, or form. by refusing to accept humor about past evils, you lend them an importance they do not deserve and which will ultimately destroy your _own_ future, while those of us who can distinguish what we learn from the lessons where we learn it, can hope to find a future that doesn’t need to have reruns of past e
03:41 mircea_popescu vils with new names as the only difference just because some _morons_ can’t learn from the past."
03:41 mircea_popescu the only problem with rthis view being that there's no such thing as "evils of the past".
03:42 mircea_popescu stalin is the mechanism whereby you turn a herd of dumbass hervbivores into a smaller, leaner, industrial nation. yes it comes right out of the peasants' famine duh. where the fuck is it going to come out of, outer space ? bacon meteors from the kuipier belt, nice and crispy by the time they land ?
03:42 BingoBoingo Just evils of the "past expiration date" related to the Oldgendered
03:42 mircea_popescu the "evils of the past" are by turns the scalpel, the chisel, the enema bag... the patient doesn't need the scalpel yet so it's evil of the past. then later needs it, no longer needs the enema, now THAT is evil of the past. on it goes.
03:43 BingoBoingo 5 Cents to the Dollar!
03:43 mircea_popescu right.
03:44 mircea_popescu and all this "learning" bullshit. you can spend the rest of your life at the new york public library, you'll never manage to "learn" yourself into this position whereby sticking your cock into whatever woman you choose won't produce a random kid come out nine months later.
03:44 mircea_popescu so no, the need to beat, kill, maim, rape, the NEED to violence ain't going fucking away just because naggum gave himself hypermetropia.
03:46 mircea_popescu there's nothing there to learn, in this sense. if you got a bunch of ideologically-coherent tards that are out of touch with reality, be them pantsuits in 2017 us or peasants in 1917 russia you bring out the biofermenters. there's nothing else, misalligned ideological coherence is === biofermenters.
03:47 mircea_popescu not even a matter of "avoidable", they're THE SAME THING.
03:48 BingoBoingo And WTF is this German Nazi fixation USG stooges keep trying to sell through their COINTELPROs? What's wrong with Redneck Pride? (other than appealing to the market?)
03:49 mircea_popescu i expect the probloem with "nazi" is cachet. so much hurr durr-ing has been invested into the whole "nazi=bad" that the "nazi=important" angle is bound to be used by some schmuck trying to "make it up there fast".
03:49 mircea_popescu this is the problem with advertising, it doesn't matter what you say at all, just that you say it lots.
03:49 mircea_popescu advertising "hitler is bad" can't be anything more or anything besides a global "hitler is important".
03:52 BingoBoingo Eh, it doesn't really have the "Identity Politics" click with rural palefaces that "ThugLyfe" has for the other side.
03:52 mircea_popescu meanwhile, usians are about as nazi as they're aztec. or hittite. srsly now, there's 0 relation.
03:53 mircea_popescu let's for isntance compare the tired victorian-baroque that'd pass for "Grand Style" if you could get them to sit still enough to consider aesthetics to the very german art deco that actual nazism was all about.
03:54 mircea_popescu really, there's no more connection between the two than between some illyrian woman raped on a riverbank two centuries ago and then given a pair of earrings and the boyfriend-girlfriend couple of today who made "passionate love" after finding the same pair of earrings and adorning her with them.
03:54 mircea_popescu s/centuries/millennia.
03:55 mircea_popescu in illyrian illustrations, http://68.media.tumblr.com/0f3fd0328cf0edc682e7b7ad485fdeb6/tumblr_o3g0kjafMt1uhih7ho1_500.gif
03:58 * mircea_popescu firmly believes that "mortuary homes" or however you call the things are pretty much the definitive illustriation of north american native taste. there's square miles of the things somewhere in mass, totally worth a field trip.
04:07 BingoBoingo Right. Hence the USG cartoon pencil used by sanctioned stooges. There's always more mortuary brass. Still for the actually deciding to be dissident there's a little bit of identity to hook into http://qntra.net/2017/07/us-entertainer-kid-rock-takes-aim-at-pantsuit-senators-job/
04:08 mircea_popescu the problem is that there doesn't seem any genuine desire to exist.
04:09 mircea_popescu teh original nazis were all about will-to-live and so on. usians want to eat, and to not hurt. there's snails with stronger libidos, and a people happy to build mcmansions privately and the brutalist abominations publicly can't possibly have any serious investment in ontology.
04:19 BingoBoingo Well, it's "white trash" identity and NOT nazi for a reason
04:20 mircea_popescu i guess,\
04:20 BingoBoingo Pointedly NOT great, but... can't extinguish all the refus
04:20 BingoBoingo *refuse
04:20 mircea_popescu unless, of course, stalin shows up.
04:21 BingoBoingo AHA, A stalin need plenty of fuel to burn
04:23 BingoBoingo Trump.S.S.R.
04:29 mircea_popescu heh
~ 3 hours 39 minutes ~
08:09 shinohai Good morning, #trilema. This is a reminder that all sluts should have their annual asshole sounding performed: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHUIkTwXUAQnj4Q.jpg
~ 2 hours 4 minutes ~
10:14 shinohai !!up r0nin-
10:14 deedbot r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
10:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F1ED5F9D4B2AF299C23329206CB58D4C01D46AB6B49CE687D609BE1E707B0745 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2974...8743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.153 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.153 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG)
10:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4CA047A1DC3B4DD0A2254C9274AB5B4A4B5AECD404AE95EEEE0DE227113F35E1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2974...8743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.230.125.74 (ssh-rsa key from 94.230.125.74 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (840.rt-barnaul-02.dianet.ru. RU)
10:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E17BC3E38DABD1C91A27D226FC57B2ACFEB88E913F4D218985717FDD514FB934 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2974...8743 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.16.255.60 (ssh-rsa key from 123.16.255.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static.vnpt.vn. VN 64)
10:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F1ED5F9D4B2AF299C23329206CB58D4C01D46AB6B49CE687D609BE1E707B0745 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3106...8249 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.153 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.153 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG)
10:22 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698796 << i assumed he was speaking of socialisms as a whole
10:22 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 07:41 mircea_popescu: the only problem with rthis view being that there's no such thing as "evils of the past".
10:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698804 << cheap and continuous hygiene is a fine alternative to grandiose and very expensive periodic exterminator calls
10:25 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 07:46 mircea_popescu: there's nothing there to learn, in this sense. if you got a bunch of ideologically-coherent tards that are out of touch with reality, be them pantsuits in 2017 us or peasants in 1917 russia you bring out the biofermenters. there's nothing else, misalligned ideological coherence is === biofermenters.
10:25 asciilifeform ( consider, why was ru awash in moo-moos to begin with ? )
10:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698807 << 'root password to the constitution' or what was it the '90s schmucks said
10:26 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 07:49 mircea_popescu: i expect the probloem with "nazi" is cachet. so much hurr durr-ing has been invested into the whole "nazi=bad" that the "nazi=important" angle is bound to be used by some schmuck trying to "make it up there fast".
10:28 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698809 << hitler is entirely central to the post-1945 'world order' , far more so than he ever was to own attempted empire
10:28 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 07:49 mircea_popescu: advertising "hitler is bad" can't be anything more or anything besides a global "hitler is important".
10:29 mod6 mornihn
10:29 asciilifeform heya mod6
10:30 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: do you have a link to the pantsuit dns-dekulakization of the 'alt right' people ? i can't be arsed to wade through the sewers to find the orig subj
~ 53 minutes ~
11:24 asciilifeform mod6: in other moar-readables, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/CyfVL/?raw=true
11:24 asciilifeform ^ similar mechanisms are moved to sit near one another, such that fewer 'brain cycles' are spent
11:38 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
11:38 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4297.15, vol: 14581.58959408 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4295.0, vol: 38774.20214847 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4314.670506, vol: 16793.21610000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4310.0, vol: 8196.30357891 | Volume-weighted last average: 4301.18576939
11:38 asciilifeform goxlag archipelag!
11:38 shinohai !~echo [ticker --high --market btcc] [ticker --low --market btcc]
11:38 jhvh1 4347.54 4044.258
~ 21 minutes ~
11:59 mod6 asciilifeform: thanks for posting
12:00 asciilifeform mod6: interestingly, this ver is ~slower~ ( by about 3% ) than the 'classical'
12:00 asciilifeform and i've found gprof entirely useless in answering the q of why.
12:01 asciilifeform in fact it is difficult to think of a more malignantly inept piece of everyday gcc userland, than gprof
12:01 mod6 hmm. so let's say, for instance, that you figure out how to make the 2^n version the same as the 64 width classic version -- performance-wise.
12:01 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648106 << see also.
12:01 a111 Logged on 2017-04-26 16:05 phf: gprof interrupts the program every few ms and saves the backtrace, the whole family is called "sampling profilers" because it only knows of functions that it saw during the interrupt. functions with runtime < interrupt ms show up with wrong estimates
12:02 asciilifeform mod6: it was supposed to be an automatic win, peformancewise
12:02 mod6 right. i recall.
12:03 mod6 my question is then; with regards to the tmsr-rsa rough-sketch spec, do we then entertain the idea of other key-lengths, no just 4096 as currently outlined?
12:03 asciilifeform mod6: i'm partial to 8192.
12:03 mod6 mircea_popescu ^
12:03 asciilifeform imho using anything less than the longest rsa key you can physically get away with on the hardware of your time, is simply nonsensical -- like using smaller bullet on enemy than you strictly must
12:04 mod6 asciilifeform: ok. just was more curious than anything if we're still flexible here.
12:04 asciilifeform ( recall the 5.56mm thread )
12:04 asciilifeform mod6: i have no intention of introducing magicnumberism .
12:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-15#1698385 << see also.
12:04 a111 Logged on 2017-08-15 21:41 asciilifeform: and this also means as few 'magic numbers' as it is physically possible to get away with.
12:05 mod6 make sense. i personally kinda like the idea that a user can generate a key, that must be 2^n, that is all.
12:05 asciilifeform we aren't even speaking of the key here !
12:05 mod6 so 4160 can work, etc.
12:05 asciilifeform but of ffa register width
12:05 shinohai But latest trilema states: " 2048 keys are too short. 8192 keys are too long. Keys of a length that's not a power of two are no good. RSA keys are 4096 bits and that's the end of the story."
12:05 mod6 ah, sorry to conflate, yes. width.
12:05 asciilifeform it doesn't impact the type of key you can use !!
12:06 asciilifeform you can generate a 6666-bit key. but you would need a 8192b invocation of ffa.
12:06 asciilifeform ( and it will spend a somewhat larger portion of time pushing zeroes around )
12:06 mod6 sure
12:07 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: do you have a link to the pantsuit dns-dekulakization of the 'alt right' people ? i can't be arsed to wade through the sewers to find the orig subj << Here's one https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/shunned-by-godaddy-and-google-racist-daily-stormer-moves-to-russian-domain/
12:07 * mod6 goes off to read the latest ffa update,
12:08 asciilifeform at any rate, i'm not sold on the 2^n thing as of yet -- it doesn't seem to win at all, other than (possibly) on readability
12:08 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ty
12:10 asciilifeform but in vintage hashfunction lulz, http://archive.is/UGtoi
12:11 BingoBoingo From wonkypedia >> "Anglin's location is not known. An investigative article by The Huffington Post in November 2016 analyzed his social media and FBI sources, and concluded that he was living in Germany. Rumors have also placed him residing in Russia.[8] In July 2017 Anglin told CNN he was residing in Lagos, Nigeria.[12]"
12:11 asciilifeform whossat
12:14 BingoBoingo The Daily DNS Change guy
12:14 asciilifeform yes but why to care
12:15 asciilifeform if there were some ameritards that DIDN'T sum to 0, from waco to oregon to fuckingbmore to wherever -- i'd like to hear about this
12:15 BingoBoingo Well, the "unknown location" bsns smells of stoogery
12:15 asciilifeform so far 0
12:16 ben_vulpes (http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-8-12#181354 << was me, btw, forgot to say until now)
12:16 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2017-08-12 20:28 ben_about: car mowdown very much in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-12#1697197
12:16 asciilifeform so far all i see of subj is 'unknown derp , switched to tor, NOW HE'LL SHOW'EM ' etc
12:16 asciilifeform snoar
12:16 asciilifeform ohai ben_vulpes
12:16 ben_vulpes allo asciilifeform
12:18 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eDUdv/?raw=true
12:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D9C573E9AE0801766BB4D4FA2026110E40D17233636AD6DF205459A40F5ED4F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1449...1037 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.81.143.60 (ssh-rsa key from 212.81.143.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.globaltac.net. ES MD M)
12:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D9C573E9AE0801766BB4D4FA2026110E40D17233636AD6DF205459A40F5ED4F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1451...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.81.143.60 (ssh-rsa key from 212.81.143.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.globaltac.net. ES MD M)
12:23 asciilifeform 'CLOUD PUBLICO, DEDICADO e HIBRIDO'
12:23 asciilifeform 'MAS DE 15 AÑOS DE EXPERIENCIA AL SERVICIO DE LA EMPRESA'
12:23 asciilifeform didjaknow!!
12:30 asciilifeform mod6: brute force ( comment lines & time ) profiling shows that the thing spends 30+% of its life inside W_Mul
12:30 asciilifeform and most of the remainder, doing addition
12:32 mod6 hmm. ok.
12:32 BingoBoingo tyvm ben_vulpes
12:33 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/08/alt-left-pantsuits-escalate-symbolically-without-risking-physical-confrontation/ << Qntra - Alt-Left Pantsuits Escalate Symbolically Without Risking Physical Confrontation
12:34 shinohai BingoBoingo: s/hero's/heroes/
12:35 BingoBoingo shinohai: ty, my bad
12:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2AFCEED97624DB4B3A06FB911AEDA43C889E5AE030D8A7D12B86C9495CB51E66 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1485...7549 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.215.198.20 (ssh-rsa key from 82.215.198.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-20.datariina.com. FI)
12:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2AFCEED97624DB4B3A06FB911AEDA43C889E5AE030D8A7D12B86C9495CB51E66 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1564...7913 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.215.198.20 (ssh-rsa key from 82.215.198.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-20.datariina.com. FI)
12:44 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/149Er/?raw=true
12:44 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
12:44 * shinohai congratulates ben_vulpes on his submission + the speed of wotpaste
12:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698905 << the orcs make very good pantsuits, their whole mental existence was predicated on empty words in the first place anyway.
12:53 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 16:23 asciilifeform: didjaknow!!
12:54 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698828 << that'd seem to be the wrong hole then
12:54 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 12:09 shinohai: Good morning, #trilema. This is a reminder that all sluts should have their annual asshole sounding performed: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHUIkTwXUAQnj4Q.jpg
12:54 * shinohai wishes he had enough votes to get this renamed "Pantsuit Parkway" http://archive.is/u4yUb
12:55 mircea_popescu !!up valica
12:55 deedbot valica voiced for 30 minutes.
12:55 mircea_popescu who are you again valica ?
12:55 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698835 << no, i am certain he is specifically NOT speaking of socialism, but strictly of stalin. ie, "socialism would have worked if only" argument implied.
12:55 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 14:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698796 << i assumed he was speaking of socialisms as a whole
12:57 mircea_popescu !!up valica_
12:57 deedbot valica_ voiced for 30 minutes.
12:58 valica_ i am a reader of trilema
12:58 mircea_popescu that's it ?
12:59 valica_ read like 10 articles last night :)
13:01 mircea_popescu anything good ?
13:02 valica_ yeah it's funny. do you have formal education in cryptography? just curious
13:02 mircea_popescu what do you mean by formal ? "at college" sorta thing ?
13:03 valica_ yes
13:03 mircea_popescu i don't.
13:03 mircea_popescu my majors were anthropology and theory of knowledge.
13:05 mircea_popescu what are you in teh regie for ? maths ?
13:05 valica_ maths?
13:05 valica_ nah. crypto
13:06 ben_vulpes ty shinohai
13:06 mircea_popescu they have a crypto programme ? who's doing it ?
13:06 valica_ school's over :) i am just reading on my own
13:07 valica_ i am studying security
13:07 valica_ https://ocw.cs.pub.ro/courses/sasc
13:07 mircea_popescu yes, but when school's not over, who ie what professor is the lead of this cryptography line ? what's it actually called ?
13:07 lobbes http://qntra.net/2017/08/alt-left-pantsuits-escalate-symbolically-without-risking-physical-confrontation/ << lol. Durham NC also didn't wanna feel left out. But, instead of waiting for heavy machinery, buncha derps ripped it down with a rope while police watched. (Makes you wonder what these statues were made of) >> https://archive.is/mqxKh
13:09 valica_ Marios Choudary. Mostly Dan Boneh coursera material, with some side channel bonus courses
13:09 mircea_popescu linked "our site" is password protected and doh.
13:09 trinque I'm sure the jimmy buffet nazis will stop them, lobbes
13:09 mircea_popescu valica_ i suppose this is a fine approach for orc unis, pay some local a few benjies to sit around with the chitlins while they read wikipedia. it took 20 years to progress from calling it an internet cafe to calling it a "lab"
13:11 mircea_popescu valica_ is it all python ?
13:12 valica_ mostly yeah. some matlab (power analysis) and some C (openssl lib)
13:12 mircea_popescu holy shit. so, https://ocw.cs.pub.ro/courses/sasc/laboratoare/09 (item 9/10) : "use openssl to decrypt this file".
13:12 mircea_popescu what the fuck is ADVANCED about this windows-user-level intro to "which button to cluck at" ?
13:13 mircea_popescu "your job is to fill in this merkle.py". holy mother of god.
13:13 valica_ :) it's just some easy task to force you to type "man openssl"
13:14 mircea_popescu formal education ain't what it used to be ;/
13:14 mircea_popescu (for the lulz record : that coudary fellow actually has a cambridge phd.)
13:15 valica_ it's not perfect, but you can learn something
13:15 mircea_popescu valica_ the problem is not that it's not perfect. it is not perfectible. what you learn through this approach is how to never learn crypto.
13:16 valica_ how would you teach crypto then?
13:17 * mircea_popescu 's unformal education in the field nevertheless does include the "suprareal" class at avram iancu highschool, which did include gavra's classes on number theory or participation at mme popoviciu's "itinerant seminary on functionals, approximations and convexity" and so on and so forth.
13:18 mircea_popescu valica_ i would teach crypto as a graduate level item for the top of the class in math and kids from physics who test in. and nobody else.
13:18 mircea_popescu specifically NOT anyone from "computer science".
13:18 valica_ we can talk more on this subject, privately sometime
13:19 mircea_popescu we can't talk privately, i don't know you.
13:19 valica_ maybe in the future
13:20 valica_ math grads are so bad in bucharest (unibuc)
13:20 mircea_popescu are they ?
13:20 valica_ damn
13:20 mircea_popescu i suppose the item rolls back to "i wouldn't teach crypto, i'd have to fix undergrad first, get some kids who can do a fucking lim"
13:20 asciilifeform btw:
13:20 asciilifeform !#s boneh
13:20 a111 15 results for "boneh", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=boneh
13:21 * asciilifeform once met the d00d in saeculum . not impressed.
13:22 valica_ i know some math students interested in crypto, one of them worked in a call center
13:22 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698957 << this is THE Official philosophy of 'teaching crypto.' aka 'don't homebrew algos!111'
13:22 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 17:13 mircea_popescu: "your job is to fill in this merkle.py". holy mother of god.
13:22 asciilifeform aka 'use what holy mother church of schneier put on your place, peon'
13:22 asciilifeform *plate
13:23 mircea_popescu valica_ feel free to link this convo to mr. choudary btw. tell him i have some things to say to him.
13:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform python, the republic's preferred webdesign postprocessor ?
13:24 valica_ i can't. i don't know you
13:24 mircea_popescu valica_ it's all public, you don't have to know me.
13:24 mircea_popescu if he has enough sense to google his name he'll see it anyway.
13:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: preferred duct tape and chewing gum brand!11
13:25 mircea_popescu ikr.
13:25 mircea_popescu basically they're mostly trying to use python to write makefiles in the manner naggum self-reportedly used lisp to write c.
13:25 mircea_popescu how's flu diana_coman ?
13:25 asciilifeform ^ this is done more often than anyone would like to admit
13:26 mircea_popescu !!up diana_coman
13:26 deedbot diana_coman voiced for 30 minutes.
13:26 * asciilifeform entertained by the 'we can talk in private' + 'i can't, i don't know you' combo
13:26 mircea_popescu eh, he's trying to figure out the fence arrangement.
13:27 mircea_popescu !!up valica_
13:27 deedbot valica_ voiced for 30 minutes.
13:27 diana_coman ugh, flu is sort of running its whole course
13:28 valica_ do you have some course material proposal or private business?
13:29 mircea_popescu no, i want to discern whether the guy is a working mind accidentally stuck in the swamp of nonsense, or actually belongs there.
13:30 mircea_popescu when i was about six or so, visiting some relatives who had a farm, i discovered a romanian bareneck (kind of chicken) chick drowning in the sty efflux. so i picked it out, and it was a pet for a year or so and then made a great soup. rooster, too.
13:30 mircea_popescu this experience has visibly marked me.
13:33 lobbes trinque, lol. "Thats it, we're sending you lot to Mengele's Margaritaville! Its got, yknow, swastica napkins and shit. "
13:33 mircea_popescu meanwhile at "blondes prefer blacks" farms, http://68.media.tumblr.com/1a7dd6fdaecc66e186cada47a345ee7e/tumblr_o0gsz450rp1ubgc5jo1_1280.jpg
13:34 ben_vulpes looool
13:34 mircea_popescu ehehehe
13:35 mircea_popescu sorry, all the chicken talk got me thinking.
13:35 asciilifeform !#s a pig like that
13:35 a111 3 results for "a pig like that", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=a%20pig%20like%20that
13:35 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: hey does that one have a face?
13:36 mircea_popescu actually face looks male dunnit ?
13:36 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: notrly
13:36 shinohai Article in NY Times today says black person responsible for the creation of Jack Daniels, leaving me to wonder how long before it starts showing up in rap videos.
13:37 ben_vulpes now i want fried chicken
13:37 mircea_popescu http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/366023/VIDEO-Two-legged-pig-learns-to-walk-using-only-his-front-limbs << the sauce for the pig like that.
13:37 asciilifeform lol
13:38 mircea_popescu tru story.
13:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698962 << asciilifeform once took a course almost exactly like the one described, quit in disgust mid way through
13:38 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 17:15 mircea_popescu: valica_ the problem is not that it's not perfect. it is not perfectible. what you learn through this approach is how to never learn crypto.
13:39 mircea_popescu it's mindboggling, you know ? "run openssl" "and if i don't have it ?" "download it then!" "And if i'm on a deserted island ?" "well then you can't crypto!" "sa moara ma-ta ?"
13:40 asciilifeform 'water comes from tap' 'food, from store' 'mains current, from socket' 'crypto, from ssl' etc
13:41 mircea_popescu makes you wonder how openssl was written in the first place, seeing how they had no openssl at the time.
13:41 mircea_popescu "you wouldn't download a car ?" "why not ?!?!" "because nobody made one" "oh... i guess gotta wait then."
13:41 asciilifeform the q of 'what am i paying this idiot to mumble at me for, then, i already knew where mains socket is' never seems to come up in victim's head
13:41 mircea_popescu problem is large section of pop doesn't know, i guess.
13:43 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1699000 << fwiw ffa is nearly a self-contained crypto textbook in itself
13:43 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 17:28 valica_: do you have some course material proposal or private business?
13:44 mircea_popescu "for the rabbi, whole world is torah. for the ewe however, whole world is grass."
13:44 asciilifeform and i've thought about offering the commented code as dead tree for aficionados
13:44 mircea_popescu offer it as blog article for now.
13:44 mircea_popescu heck, ffa ~should~ probably be distributed as literate code.
13:44 asciilifeform well it will live in the vgenesis, fg-style
13:44 mircea_popescu let it be 2mb long for 200 loc.
13:45 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698837 << in this, as in all cases. except periodic hygiene means taking woman's baby and crushing its skull against a rock now and again. which is to say : hygiene cost is personal, culling cost is socialized. guess what "individual" "agents" are going to choose ? (support material :
13:45 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 14:25 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698804 << cheap and continuous hygiene is a fine alternative to grandiose and very expensive periodic exterminator calls
13:45 mircea_popescu damn... hey asciilifeform wtf was that article explaining the problem of socializing the costs of communication by never providing negative reinforcement ?
13:45 mircea_popescu !!up valica
13:45 deedbot valica voiced for 30 minutes.
13:46 mircea_popescu valica make yourself a pgp key if you don't have one an' register it with deedbot so i don't have to keep voicing oyu
13:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was at the very least in naggum
13:46 asciilifeform the one re noobs iirc
13:46 mircea_popescu trilema item i can't find ;/
13:52 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the pits, http://archive.is/DiM7l >> gavinists proclaim phorqwarz at block 494784
13:52 mircea_popescu 18k away ?
13:53 mircea_popescu that's like... 100 days sorta thing ? why exactly, have they decided the whole thing coming out of the previous attempts was the brief interval of "confusion" before being stomped and so trying to maximize that ?
13:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/honor-societies-vs-respect-societies-or-how-the-disaster-of-commons-sunk-the-western-world/ << found it.
13:54 asciilifeform aah
13:54 mircea_popescu so : yes, personal hygiene better than periodic holocaust. nevertheless, personal hygiene gotta be done personally whereas "niste copii au venit de la alt bloc" can do the holocausting.
13:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698842 << aha. i expect stalin is rolling in grave and mao is looking dourly on.
13:56 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 14:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698809 << hitler is entirely central to the post-1945 'world order' , far more so than he ever was to own attempted empire
13:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698863 << no.
13:58 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 16:03 mod6: my question is then; with regards to the tmsr-rsa rough-sketch spec, do we then entertain the idea of other key-lengths, no just 4096 as currently outlined?
13:59 mircea_popescu and specifically re 8192 : if you use that, all the crypto operations take twice as long. this is a certain cost.
13:59 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> that's like... 100 days sorta thing ? why exactly, have they decided the whole thing coming out of the previous attempts was the brief interval of "confusion" before being stomped and so trying to maximize that ? << This is Barry Sillybert's stunt
13:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: parallelizes linearly, if one is impatient.
13:59 asciilifeform ( specifically karatsuba's 3 prongs, are independent )
14:00 mircea_popescu in exchange you get two things : you get 2x the size of message blocks (an advantage that is actually a disadvantage as now you're using 1kb udp packets which is i expect margionalkly worse than 2 512s) ; and you get a harder rsa (an advantage which is no sort of advantage, the 4096 rsa is already harder than the extant universe)
14:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but still twice the work, however space-time negotiated.
14:00 asciilifeform the udp thing is the 1 painful procrusting re 4096
14:01 mircea_popescu the argument for not using 2048 is already very far fetched ("but what if someone makes a computer the size of our galaxy, WHAT THEN!)
14:01 mircea_popescu but the argument for "4096 is not enough" can not be constructed.
14:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: isn't the only argument
14:01 mircea_popescu lemme hear ?
14:01 asciilifeform the other argument is impact of leaked bits.
14:01 mircea_popescu if you leak bits fix the leak don't make the pipe thicker eh.
14:02 mircea_popescu this is the wrong side of the exponential and i dun wanna eat it.
14:02 asciilifeform conceivable that all rsa signatures leak fractions of a bit of key.
14:02 mircea_popescu gpg conceivable, tmsr not conceivable.
14:02 asciilifeform mno
14:03 asciilifeform rsa per se.
14:03 mircea_popescu signature = unpadded decryption.
14:03 asciilifeform i'll rephrase -- no one has proven that publishing an rsa sig does not leak >0 info re key.
14:03 mircea_popescu let us consider the proper signature scheme for a moment here ?
14:05 asciilifeform ok..
14:07 mircea_popescu so, you publish a number S, and a pubkey P. the verification consists of doing S ^ P.e and checking that it is equal to the hash of the proposed message mod P.N
14:09 mircea_popescu check ?
14:09 asciilifeform aha
14:09 asciilifeform ( though i will nitpick, and point out that the exponentiations are ~always~ done modularly , otherwise universe not bigenuff )
14:10 mircea_popescu and so the proposition here is that WHILE rsa encryption does not leak bits, nevertheless rsa signing does ?
14:10 mircea_popescu or are you proposing they both leak ?
14:10 asciilifeform encryption?!
14:10 mircea_popescu yes ?
14:10 mircea_popescu they're the same damned op lol.
14:11 asciilifeform how do you leak something that you don't have
14:11 asciilifeform well no
14:11 asciilifeform sig gives you a novel fact re the private exponent
14:11 mircea_popescu not moreso than encryption does!
14:11 mircea_popescu you know for a fact the encrypted text will be decryptable by the key, yes ?
14:11 mircea_popescu so there, "a novel fact"
14:12 mircea_popescu by encrypting "hola bro" to alf's key and getting $result, i now know a novel fact about alf's key!
14:13 asciilifeform this output doesn't contain anything you did not already know on demand tho
14:14 mircea_popescu yes, but my point here is that it is perhaps a defensible heuristic, but not defensible reasoning, to expect that just because p, q and p*q are coupled in that manner, any application to do with their coupling therefore informs you as to p or q.
14:14 asciilifeform will note that there are other ( noncryptographic ) ways to leak bitz
14:14 mircea_popescu certainly.
14:15 mircea_popescu which is why we're putting all this crazy effort into proper rsa, ffa etc.
14:15 mircea_popescu because expensive as it may be, it is WAY the fuck cheaper to make good pipe than to make thicker pipe to cover for all the leaks due to it being shitty pipe.
14:15 asciilifeform good pipe is - sadly - still finitely good.
14:15 mircea_popescu (honestly me thought the above is the tacit understanding at the base of the effort)
14:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but good pipe is finitely good ^ 1 whereas tick pipe is expensive to the ^ n.
14:16 mircea_popescu so if you're gonna plug, plug the right end of funnel.
14:17 asciilifeform sorta why i put the effort into crafting a demonstrably bug-free constantimetron, first thing, rather than 'let's use gnu gmp with massive keyz'
14:17 mircea_popescu right.
14:17 asciilifeform but imho 'better to be rich and healthy, than poor and diseased'
14:17 mircea_popescu so it being the fundamental reasoning, it's ok to have it explicit, but implicit or explicit it ain't gonna budge.
14:17 mircea_popescu if you leak, fix leak.
14:18 asciilifeform 1 problem is that it is not actually possible on stock x86pc to not leak power differential.
14:18 mircea_popescu very possible, just don't throw away your old car batteries.
14:18 asciilifeform ( adding 0+0 still uses slightly different current than maxint+maxint )
14:20 asciilifeform other problem is that there is a small but finite probability of misfires in rsatron , such that would leak a bit.
14:20 asciilifeform and little enough is know re reliability of current liquishit hardware, that will not propose to calculate it.
14:20 mircea_popescu if you believe that, the correct solution is to change keys, not to make all the keys randomly thicker.
14:21 asciilifeform not all keys are practical to change.
14:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu of all people knows this.
14:21 mircea_popescu but that is practical to the power ^1, whereas thicker keys expensive to ^ of n.
14:21 asciilifeform ( consider, if changing keys were painless, we could use lamport's method )
14:21 mircea_popescu if THAT isn't practical, then sure as fuck larger keys aren't practical.
14:22 asciilifeform actually thicker keys are expensive to n*log(n)
14:22 mircea_popescu understand asciilifeform : if you can't afford to buy a house in cash, this means YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE HOUSE. period. go sleep under the fucking bridge. and no, the fact that you ~could~ get a mortgage pay monthly DOES NOT!!!! make it now possible.
14:22 mircea_popescu if you can't afford the house, you can even less afford the mortgage.
14:22 * asciilifeform dun follow the analogy
14:23 mircea_popescu which is what's contemplated here. "oh, changing keys (ie, buying house) is impractical. therefore, let us take out mortgage (pay a little evert time we use key), because it's less affordable but more accessible and the woman is too dumb to understand the difference and we're too castrated to not let her run the household)
14:23 asciilifeform will point out that 8192+ only seems expensive because x86 is pessimized for it
14:24 mircea_popescu no, it's expensive because, mathematically.
14:24 asciilifeform we're scooping out a swimming pool with a teaspoon
14:24 asciilifeform every time we rsa
14:24 mircea_popescu the point remains : if what you are saying it's not practical to change keys (ie, that the per-op value add of key is less than the per-op value lost to suspected leak) THEN therefore what you are saying is "rsa is not worth using"
14:24 mircea_popescu and in no case "rsa would be worth using with longer keys"
14:24 mircea_popescu it would be... LESS worth using.
14:25 asciilifeform mno. observation was re concrete cases where it is impractical to change a key. say, the parasitic radio item.
14:25 mircea_popescu now, the above is an opinion you or anyone is welcome to hold, like any other opinion. i however don't hold it.
14:25 asciilifeform or cemented pogo, etc.
14:25 asciilifeform anythign that runs from rom.
14:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they can be replaced like any other man made item.
14:26 asciilifeform 'we have no irreplaceables here' -- stalin
14:26 mircea_popescu ie, currently they don't exist. later on, they will. later still, they'll break. laterer yet they'll be replaced.
14:26 asciilifeform it isn't untrue. but replacing worlds has cost.
14:26 mircea_popescu there is no such thing as man-made transcendent.
14:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, and that's the discussion here. if it's costly in excess of utility then the WHOLE thing is broken, and "fixes" in the sense contemplated merely further the breakage.
14:26 asciilifeform it dun make the people who used 2-digit years in rom code, any less stoopid
14:26 asciilifeform or the ones who put win95 in roms
14:27 mircea_popescu this is debatable, but also not so related.
14:27 mircea_popescu the "two digit year" thing is incomparable to the 4096 bit thing, because the 4096 bit thing is backed by "the whole universe, if it set to computing, still wouldn't EVER get even close to breaking a key".
14:27 asciilifeform the cost of swapping out the nonsense will easily exceed that of, e.g., vietnam war
14:27 asciilifeform ( recall the winxp battleship etc )
14:27 mircea_popescu whereas 2 digit year is based on "we never heard of last century"
14:28 asciilifeform i dunno why mircea_popescu is defending a figure that came from wholly arbitrary, rather than natural, constraint ( 'what is fast on a uniprocessor x86 box' == 4096 )
14:28 mircea_popescu in any case, entirely incomparable items. yes, people do dumb shit all the time. but this doesn't mean people doing the right thing should do it once and wear a vest "to make sure".
14:29 asciilifeform 4096 did not fall from sky, no. and 10y ago it 'equalled' 2048.
14:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform because it finds itself at a natural cutoff.
14:29 mircea_popescu 4096 is the largest power of two which makes a key that is incomputable.
14:29 mircea_popescu literally.
14:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it never equalled 2048, no.
14:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this argument is not false, but ignores noncryptoanalytic breaks
14:30 asciilifeform incl. singlebit misfires.
14:31 mircea_popescu but there shall never be a systematic solution for tactical failure.
14:31 asciilifeform ( for reference : leaking 1/4 of your privkey is fatal; 10-20% -- you're breakable in polynomial time with large -- how large is unknown -- constant factor )
14:31 asciilifeform unknow publicly, at any rate.
14:31 asciilifeform *unknown
14:31 mircea_popescu if ~you~, joe, leak bits, then you, joe, are responsible, and you, joe, pay for the fix. not the fucking cryptosystem.
14:32 asciilifeform it isn't clear that there is a 'fix'.
14:32 mircea_popescu then fuck you joe.
14:32 asciilifeform in the sense of making the probability 0.
14:33 mircea_popescu to quote that film i reviewed recently, "what do they want for their lousy 35 cents ? to live forever ?"
14:33 asciilifeform that's where i was going, the fuckyou joe, that a 'hot' key may have a finite life.
14:33 asciilifeform that is proportionate to length of key.
14:33 mircea_popescu the way this conversation is going, we can't have children us two until we get the baby room properly furnished and the safest crypto op is one that never finishes.
14:34 asciilifeform i dun see it
14:34 asciilifeform what i see is an elementary '7.62mm is inevitably better than 5.56, if you can afford either'
14:34 mircea_popescu the man who lost 100 bits is the same man who will lose 200 bis.
14:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is EXACTLY not the case. i am saying "7.62 is sufficient, because it will blow a hole through man, as result of interplay of actual universal constants" and you are saying "yes but 15.2 would be bigger".
14:35 asciilifeform funnily aviation cannon designers had this exact convo!
14:36 asciilifeform and ended up with 30mm and +
14:36 mircea_popescu this is nonsense argument, and in fact they could "afford" both but they don't fucking use both. they use the correctly sized one based on human thickness and wetware bullet refraction properties.
14:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nevertheless, there is an optimal bullet per target, and nobody makes the calibre twice as big. if not because their mind works enough to understand why not, then because the very sad experience of the nazis illustrates why the fuck not.
14:37 asciilifeform asciilifeform's argument is not even 'we must 8192!!1' but that 4096 is an accidental measure, like the volume of one particular bucket one particular child left on a beach
14:37 asciilifeform on fpga even 32768-bit rsa is as snappy as you could want
14:38 asciilifeform ( you use 32768b registers ! )
14:38 mircea_popescu it is not accidental measure.
14:38 mircea_popescu increasing tank size up to the 4096 bit tank pays off. increasing tank size past 4096 bit tank results in fucking panthers and whatnot.
14:38 asciilifeform ain't as if people were born with 32bit cpu stuffed up their arses, neh
14:39 mircea_popescu 4096 is the smallest power of two which produces a rsa key that is, factually, incomputable.
14:39 mircea_popescu this is a sufficient reason to choose that value.
14:39 mircea_popescu alternative candidates have nothing speaking for them.
14:40 asciilifeform it is pretty strange imho to read mircea_popescu operating with the logic of poverty -- '100 horse suffices for standing at red light, why would anyone want a bugatti', '400 sq metres suffices to house a family' -- how is 4096b rsa any different ?
14:41 mircea_popescu beleive it or not this is the logic i use all the time. what, you think rich people get a special science / engineering that works differently ?
14:42 mircea_popescu the ustards tried, with their golden toilets. didn't work out for them. meanwhile irl i still pack the new girls two to an apartment, as per http://trilema.com/2010/doua-fete-argumentul-economic/
14:42 asciilifeform if you were dropping the n00k on soros, would you settle for 'sufficient' 10ktonne, or opt at slightly moar cost for 100mtonne kuzkina mat' if available ?
14:42 mircea_popescu sufficient.
14:42 asciilifeform lolmiser
14:43 mircea_popescu i am not in love with soros what can i tell you.
14:43 * asciilifeform could perhaps qualify as a championship miser if he were richer
14:44 mircea_popescu really, pointless wastage only impresses gypos.
14:44 asciilifeform idea is not to impress, but to cauterize
14:44 mircea_popescu "sufficient" means something.
14:44 mircea_popescu and weaponry is to be used as per fucking manual and design, not obliquely wtf.
14:45 asciilifeform the 'waste' argument would be cogent if we were suffering a drought of cpu cycles somehow.
14:45 asciilifeform for what are they being saved by using undersized rsanuke ?
14:45 mircea_popescu they're still not free.
14:45 asciilifeform all the ones you dun use -- are free
14:45 mircea_popescu and it's not undersized! it's simply not oversized.
14:46 asciilifeform currently it isn't clear to asciilifeform what is the equiv. of the bullet weight ( or other mechanical cost ) here.
14:47 * asciilifeform also entertained that this is almost the exact arg of mircea_popescu an' asciilifeform re mphf, originally, but with the sides reversed
14:47 asciilifeform !!up r0nin-
14:47 deedbot r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
14:47 r0nin- hello mircea
14:47 mircea_popescu link ?
14:47 mircea_popescu r0nin- sup
14:48 r0nin- https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2016/09/25/blood-money-digital-fools-gold-and-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics/
14:48 r0nin- https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2016/09/19/cryptocurrency-as-cuck-finance-or-promises-made-by-pokemon/
14:48 mircea_popescu o.O
14:48 r0nin- would like your commenting
14:48 mircea_popescu what's that ?
14:49 r0nin- its a critique of crypto
14:49 mircea_popescu did you write it ?
14:49 r0nin- no
14:49 asciilifeform can haz critique of arithmetic also ?
14:49 mircea_popescu eh what the hell. lessee.
14:51 asciilifeform reads like a typical propertard
14:51 r0nin- https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/valuing-nothingness/
14:51 r0nin- this explains bitcoins 'price'
14:51 asciilifeform 'usg bond is better than btc because It Entitles You To'
14:51 asciilifeform didjaknow, mircea_popescu
14:52 r0nin- well he doesnt say that
14:52 r0nin- a USG bond is just a time deposit
14:52 r0nin- its fiat
14:52 mircea_popescu r0nin- re the "entitle", he rehashes (without attribution) a point actually made on trilema back in... 2012. http://trilema.com/2012/the-reasons-why-bitcoin-securities-cant-be-regulated-by-the-sec/#selection-129.0-129.112
14:52 mircea_popescu r0nin- now, why am i reading some douche who dares opine without having done any reading ?
14:52 r0nin- bitcoin isnt a security
14:52 mircea_popescu you're not doing too well here.
14:53 r0nin- Furthermore, while it is true that Bitcoin may be regarded as an item of value by one or more people, this also is true of the in-game currency of each and every single one game ever released to this date and to be released for the conceivable future.
14:53 mircea_popescu anyway. fellow should read the above linked item and the discussion of causes and purposes, and try again.
14:53 r0nin- thats precisely true
14:53 r0nin- bitcoin is the equivalent of game tokens
14:54 asciilifeform r0nin-: 'also true of in-game currency' did your mother drop you as a baby? or feigning retardation ?
14:54 r0nin- yes
14:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he;s quoting :D
14:54 r0nin- bitcoin is exactly the same thing as 'in-game currency'
14:54 mircea_popescu r0nin- that end is not the problem. the problem is that usg has no better claim to ontology than a random wow guild.
14:55 r0nin- well i agree, the SEC has zero say with bitcoin because it simply isnt a security
14:55 r0nin- bitcoin is evidence of wasted computational power
14:55 asciilifeform somehow a centralized spamola token that can be magicked into existence in arbirary quantity, is 'same' as bitcoin ?
14:55 mircea_popescu this is generally the problem statists encounter : since their operative definition of government is ideal ("that thing we made") as opposed to real ("that thing which exists") they have trouble understanding how bitcoin can destroy governments while governments can't regulate bitcoin.
14:56 r0nin- asciliform: fiat money IS a security
14:56 asciilifeform i thought the last purveyor of this particular nonsense died in 2010 or so
14:56 r0nin- the total quantity of all fiat money in existence is zero at all times
14:56 mircea_popescu as poer that lulzy http://trilema.com/2017/because-thats-just-how-things-are/
14:56 r0nin- its just a book keeping entry
14:56 r0nin- someone has negative balance and someone has positive
14:56 r0nin- the total is always zero
14:57 mircea_popescu mmm.
14:57 mircea_popescu what exactly is your experience / exposure level to fiat finance r0nin- ?
14:57 r0nin- its high
14:57 mircea_popescu be specific.
14:57 r0nin- fiat money is just a unit of account for debts, whats so difficult to understand here? claiming you can 'run out of fiat' is like claiming you can run out of 'meters' to measure a room
14:58 mircea_popescu r0nin- if you don't answer the questions you'll end up silenced.
14:58 r0nin- mircea: im a bond trader
14:58 ave1 asciilifeform: are you still looking for a non-recursive Karatsuba? or should it wait until it is fully crystalized?
14:58 mircea_popescu r0nin- alright. the claim isn't that the usg printing press will somehow malfunction.
14:58 mircea_popescu but, for the exact some money, the confederacy also hasn't run out of confederate dollars.
14:58 r0nin- the government needs to 'print'
14:58 asciilifeform ave1: it can be made quite trivially from the one i have. but increases complexity and so i have not done this.
14:59 ave1 yes, I thought so, I did this and it seems to be the same speed too!
14:59 asciilifeform ave1: it suffices from my pov that i can prove that the thing terminates in W-Threshold shots.
14:59 r0nin- the private sector is a permanent net saver, the government supplies the 'asset' the private sector saves in
14:59 r0nin- a USG bond is just a time deposit
14:59 mircea_popescu r0nin- used to. now, bitcoin supplies that asset, and nobody can recall what the usg was.
14:59 asciilifeform ave1: knuth has a number of examples of 'derecursivizations'
14:59 r0nin- bitcoin doesnt supply the asset becuase bitcoin has no final demand
15:00 r0nin- theres nobody obligated to accept it in payment of anything
15:00 mircea_popescu of course it does. gotta pay your tmsr tax.
15:00 r0nin- what tmsr tax?
15:00 mircea_popescu heh. got reading to do dontcha!
15:00 r0nin- send link
15:00 ave1 asciilifeform: Aha, should read Knuth more, I now did it by some thinking about it (and probably most stupid way)
15:01 ave1 asciiliform: BTW maybe I missed it but why do comba when L <= 8? does this come from speed testing?
15:01 asciilifeform ave1: basic idea, pretty obvious, you throw param tuples into an array ( of known max length, proportional to # of invocations permitted ) and then iterate over that, using it in place of the familiar stack.
15:01 r0nin- bitcoin is just a rehash of murray rothbards primitive view of money
15:01 mircea_popescu r0nin- http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt
15:02 asciilifeform ave1: indeed it does : on every piece of iron i have, and for every bitness, <= 8 turns out to be the inflection point.
15:02 mircea_popescu r0nin- certainly not.
15:02 r0nin- how isnt it? his ideal form of money was one that swelled in value from other peoples labor
15:02 ave1 I did it like so: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6dEzs/?raw=true, but as it is order more complex I would not recommend it
15:02 r0nin- hence permanent deflation
15:02 mircea_popescu labor doesn't enter into this discussion.
15:02 r0nin- except in his day it was gold shekels
15:02 asciilifeform ave1: woah, monstrous
15:03 asciilifeform looks almost bigger than my whole orchestra put together
15:03 ave1 asciilifeform: yes it's terrible
15:03 ave1 asciilifeform: but it works, and for me was a good way to review karatsuba code
15:04 r0nin- nice pre-amble. so we are advocating liberalism as the ideal ?
15:04 mircea_popescu nope.
15:04 r0nin- that is a liberal pre-amble
15:04 mircea_popescu it is ?
15:04 r0nin- of course
15:04 r0nin- im being 'liberated' from all sovereign and becoming my own soverign
15:04 mircea_popescu i don't see it. is it also a savarin preamble ?
15:04 asciilifeform ave1: it doesn't hurt, to take the thing and play with it, every which way you can.
15:04 mircea_popescu um.
15:05 mircea_popescu i suppose, in that metaphorical sense.
15:05 r0nin- We hold these truths to be self-evident : that no men nor women are created, but born ; that nothing ever is or could be equal to any other thing ; that each man and each woman are sovereign entities and the sole sovereign entities
15:05 r0nin- welcome to 19th century liberalism
15:05 mircea_popescu but, let it be noted that as i was eating a savarine writing it, it chiefly is a savarin preable.
15:05 ave1 asciilifeform: I would probably not have thought about the L > 8 test otherwise
15:05 asciilifeform ave1: you might find http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698847 << this reformulation, interesting
15:05 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 15:24 asciilifeform: mod6: in other moar-readables, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/CyfVL/?raw=true
15:06 trinque r0nin-: there is a distinction between a sovereign person and a sovereign people, eh?
15:06 r0nin- The most pure form of anti-realist value is distilled and concentrated human subjective evaluation: value with no object. The only thing more pure than gold would be nothing at all, but of course even the most ardent anti-realist cannot escape from objective reality. Because he cannot store pure concentrate of human will in a vault, the anti-realist stores gold; because at least as an historical
15:06 r0nin- matter gold is the substance that human beings have most irrationally desired, desired in a way most purely disconnected from objective reality.
15:06 r0nin- replace gold with bitcoin
15:06 mircea_popescu do you have a definition for "anti-realist" ?
15:06 r0nin- yes
15:06 mircea_popescu ah ok then! lol.
15:06 mircea_popescu wtf is it ?
15:07 ave1 asciilifeform: thx, I saw it coming by, but was so deed in this try that I did not look yet, (looks nice)
15:07 r0nin- https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/2015/12/21/in-the-land-of-lies-every-day-is-opposite-day/
15:07 ave1 *deep
15:07 r0nin- here you go
15:07 mircea_popescu i suppose at this juncture i inquire whether you know what a definition is, and you say yes, and i ask you to define it and you do. go ahead.
15:08 asciilifeform i smell aquinastardism
15:08 asciilifeform dunno if my chemsuit is even rated for that
15:08 r0nin- at the end of the day, bitcoin is a rehash of all the errors of gold except in digital format
15:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i hear a chorus of slavegirls going "omfg your patience, is inhuman"
15:08 asciilifeform ( the linked d00d has a severe case )
15:08 mircea_popescu r0nin- again, and for teh last time : if you don't answer the questions you will get silenced.
15:09 r0nin- anti-realism is exactly what bitcoin is
15:09 mircea_popescu the quesiton was "i suppose at this juncture i inquire whether you know what a definition is, and you say yes, and i ask you to define it and you do. go ahead."
15:10 mircea_popescu it's not my fault we have a lengthy yearn to unroll here, so take it easy an' help out maybe we get to something useful.
15:10 asciilifeform apparently 'realism' is to trade pieces of paper sanctified with the cuntjuice of the obummer sisters
15:10 r0nin- asciiliforeform: again, those 'pieces of papers' are securities that entitle you to certain rights.
15:10 asciilifeform lol!!
15:10 mircea_popescu a well.
15:10 r0nin- something which bitcoin cannot
15:10 mircea_popescu !!down r0nin-
15:10 mircea_popescu why is intellectual discipline so hard for people anyway.
15:11 asciilifeform rights. didjaknow.
15:11 * mircea_popescu jew-waves.
15:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: catholitards have iron 'discipline' in their chosen glassbeadgame.
15:11 mircea_popescu fucking utf or w/e you call the anime faces bullshit. onl;y actual gesture that's missing from written form, and that's the one they omit.
15:11 mircea_popescu wtf i need a drawing of a smile ? why.
15:11 mircea_popescu i thought rothbard was a catholic dood ?
15:12 mircea_popescu (in the sense contemplated here)
15:12 asciilifeform enough so that i barfed in attempting to read'im
15:12 mircea_popescu well he's unreadable, but anyway, this guy seemed very incensed by him in the strangest of ways : as if what the dood made sense, and he disagreed.
15:13 asciilifeform i suspect that i see the fundamental problem of these folx ( incl. gold collectors ) -- they never actually discovered protocol vs promise, 'protocol' (i.e. hard crypto guarantee ) is not a conceivable item for them
15:13 asciilifeform like the romans not knowing of zero
15:13 mircea_popescu (as far as beat cop is concerned, there's a very marked difference between "this guy is a drunk!!" "uh... who is this woman ?" on one hand and "this guy is a drunk!" "oh yeah, well you're a whore!" on the other hand.)
15:14 asciilifeform !!up ave1
15:14 deedbot ave1 voiced for 30 minutes.
15:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'd rather simply ignore the whole "promise" bs on the simple grounds of the cause/purpose dichotomy and be done with it.
15:14 asciilifeform observation was that the folx in question only know of promise
15:14 mircea_popescu possibly.
15:15 asciilifeform they're stuck not merely pre-rsa, but in a sense pre-babylon ( where the clay seals already offered some mechanical guarantee )
15:15 mircea_popescu i suppose up to a certai npoint a desire to manipulate the future is understandable in animals.
15:16 trinque why'd a religious person want the responsibility of hard crypto anyway. he needs god himself to declare he exists; anything short of that, existential terror. what individual?
15:16 asciilifeform possibly even stuck ~pre-trade~ -- witness the naked assertion that 'usd is king strictly because great inca promised to kill for it'
15:16 mircea_popescu "so what if it does exactly the offices of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698962 ie it splices my brain away from reality into nonsense ?! my brain wasn't all that good in the first place, what's the loss."
15:16 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 17:15 mircea_popescu: valica_ the problem is not that it's not perfect. it is not perfectible. what you learn through this approach is how to never learn crypto.
15:16 mircea_popescu hey, there's that bitcoin on todd's head or whoever's ?
15:16 * mircea_popescu forgets.
15:18 * asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu in steppes of ulan batur, 2030, horseman throws a sack at his yurt and speeds away in cloud of dust. inside : a head, and a pay addr scratched on forehead...
15:18 mircea_popescu anyway, this zippy item is apparently the life work of some dedicated individual, who spent years toiling in obscurity.
15:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at the rate btc is going, 2030 seems way too far out.
15:19 asciilifeform hey, digging up obscure derp from the depths of the refugee camps, could take time!111
15:21 asciilifeform upstack : asciilifeform is still curious whether the assorted goldtards etc actually believe that btc is 'entirely like wowgold' and that some gavin somewhere 'could make moar if we wanted to' on demand
15:21 asciilifeform or whether simply stuck playing pretend, to delay eating nagant when they sit and think
15:22 trinque they'd all vote and the consensus rules would change. what do you think all the derping around that has been?
15:25 asciilifeform vote free-ponies-for-everyone aha
15:26 ben_vulpes everything must be free!
15:27 asciilifeform rights!111
15:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i suspect the gold people are very subjectively hurt by bitcoin doing what gold "Was supposed to do" and haet.
15:28 asciilifeform that part was pretty obvious 5y ago
15:28 mircea_popescu there's this defense strategy in welfare societies whereby one has among the vast arrays of self-granted options also the option to "disagree" with such things.
15:29 mircea_popescu sort-of how there's old hookers out there who don't agree britney was never anything.
15:29 mircea_popescu or, for the same money, elvis not dead folk.
15:29 asciilifeform the q was how these folx bamboozled themselves into thinking that the obvious problems of physical brick of au , lending naturally to 'paperization', somehow 'did not count'
15:30 mircea_popescu can take way over 5 years. in fact, this demo splice goes out with the demo itself, it's not heal-abl;e from the sony pov.
15:30 mircea_popescu (there's two kinds of fandom rebellion, as far as the producers are concerned. fixable and unfixable. as the latter accumulate franchises die)
15:31 mircea_popescu (hitler/swastica/etc are dead franchises in this sense. they can't advertise with it. though they'd love to.)
15:31 asciilifeform it will be interesting to see how the goldtards etc react to realization that they are willingly powering a heat engine where , e.g., 1 btc is worth several years of their life, and organs
15:31 mircea_popescu this realization can not occur.
15:32 asciilifeform wainot?
15:32 mircea_popescu whole fucking point of goldbuggery is derealization, in the vein of "great old west" cowboy-staring-at-horizon, "Better days" etc.
15:32 mircea_popescu you ever seen who shot liberty vallance ?
15:32 asciilifeform nope
15:33 mircea_popescu a, great film. anyway, summary : dude (ie, inept manchild) and actual cowboy compete for cunt. the cunt is indescribably dumb (really, just mouthpiece for ideological choices of author), picks dude.
15:33 * asciilifeform brb, teatime
15:33 mircea_popescu the cowboy does not sumarily execute the dude, chain the dumb cunt naked to a pole, whip her bloody and have her gang raped by the local mongrels, and so to spend the rest of her life.
15:33 mircea_popescu no, instead he... becomes a gold bug.
15:33 mircea_popescu withdraws in stamp collecting or w/e the fuck it is he does.
15:34 mircea_popescu aka, derealization, the term of art.
15:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1699345 << in retrospect this is likely the underpinning. there's no conception of "there are things that can be said, and there are things that can be done, and these are not the same things" uniting all the efforts of "anti"-bitcoin-because-statist and "anti"-bitcoin-because-i-dunno-what-money-is and "liberals" because niceness and free food! and so on.
15:44 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 19:13 asciilifeform: i suspect that i see the fundamental problem of these folx ( incl. gold collectors ) -- they never actually discovered protocol vs promise, 'protocol' (i.e. hard crypto guarantee ) is not a conceivable item for them
15:45 mircea_popescu "no sooner said than done" is the constant refrain of the folk tales ruinning through such goodfolk's heads at all times.
~ 16 minutes ~
16:01 asciilifeform the sufferers almost always turn up to labour under elaborately usgtronic delusions of, e.g., 'their' ( sitting Safely In Their cardboard house or usg.bank box , naturally ) 'gold' ( do they consider melting, or whatever other test ? ) 'belongs' ( until preet says so ) to them...
16:02 asciilifeform whereas btc 'is just bits, and anyone can flip bits to be whatever'
16:02 asciilifeform is the usual thread
16:03 asciilifeform ( previously asciilifeform thought that the last 'just bits' idjit ate his '45 some time in 2012, but apparently not )
16:09 asciilifeform the other observation is that the chukcha's reliance on his 'naked five senses' is absolute -- 'physical object' in his threadbare skullcase always trumps 'insisible' items, 'just number'
16:09 asciilifeform ... and later he is very susprised when the beta rays cook his children alive
16:10 asciilifeform *invisible
16:12 asciilifeform but at the same time, all known types of chukcha are happy to bow before ~other~ invisibles, e.g. deer spirit, or 'natural right of property', or whatever idiocy their mother pounded into the head
16:13 asciilifeform asciilifeform is not a sufficiently adroit chukchologist to square this circle...
16:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is exactly the problem : the sort of orc who opposes pantsuit is 5-senses pashtun. and so always will be.
16:23 mircea_popescu the notion of people smarter than required to make a good pantsuit not subscribing to the narrative is you know, inconceivable.
16:25 mircea_popescu sorta like "kid smart enough to go to college -- isn't".
16:25 asciilifeform 'whaddayamean osama had engineering phd and still picked the cave'
16:26 mircea_popescu right. back to the same problem of abstracts. they've not just decided "government" is so and so deductively, leaving no room for inductive falsification. they've decided lots of other things on the same day, and they all go the same way : "the max of any variable is within our purview"
16:26 asciilifeform 'whaddayamean you won't eat from the trough' 'not a swine? everybody's a swine, and you're an elitist swine' etc
16:27 mircea_popescu they can mentall create "maximal government" by thinking these words, "maximal government", and they stick, because shamanism and symbols coerce reals.
16:27 mircea_popescu then they deduce "since maximal government is definitionally maximal government, therefore bitcoin can't unseat real government".
16:28 mircea_popescu as they lack the ability to correctly recognize the imanence of transcendents and say "well, in order for maximal government to live up to the name it'll have to be bitcoin, rather than usg", they're "safe".
16:28 asciilifeform didn't we have a case of 'if bitcoin worked, They Would Kill It' show up just the other week
16:28 mircea_popescu yeah.
16:28 mircea_popescu see, cuz the simple mind requires fixed point. so it'll pick a fixed point, and name it something, and the hell with everything else.
16:28 mircea_popescu and in this mental model, obviously "if bitcoin matter usg would regulate it".
16:28 mircea_popescu mattered*
16:28 asciilifeform recall the petrol from rocks thing ?
16:29 mircea_popescu and besides -- the "college graduate" rice imbecile gave the solution in case anything blows up : "nobody could have predicted!"
16:29 * asciilifeform was about to say 'how come this has not yet come to usglandia' but then remembered 'renewables'
16:29 mircea_popescu which is exactly correct : nobody who decides to create a fixed point and call it government can possibly predict bitcoin wiping it. this follows from the definitions.
16:30 mircea_popescu anyway, as best i can discern a major problem is that the people who WANT to do something about it are rarely the people who CAN.
16:30 asciilifeform 'socialist nonsense will crash and burn on schedule, and They Will Call It Bad Luck' (uncle al)
16:30 mircea_popescu take our r0nin- friend here. he's not actually smart enough to match his typing speed. he'd love to matter. but he doesn't have what with. wut du ?!
16:30 mircea_popescu get really angry and break things!!!
16:30 asciilifeform i dunno, he could go an' do whatever the other folx w/out theorems do
16:30 asciilifeform weed his garden
16:30 asciilifeform pull his cock
16:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite. besides, already happened. "evils of the past" ie stalin, not soviets.
16:30 asciilifeform wax his chevvy
16:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he has a theorem.
16:31 mircea_popescu what he lacks is the other part.
16:31 mircea_popescu you understand, for every fermat solver there's five trillion collectors, like http://trilema.com/2017/on-trisection-a-humble-contribution/
16:31 asciilifeform i suspect that this type of 'bonsai kitten' is created by the ill-conceived half-education purveyors. as per mircea_popescu's talk at c3 re pediwikians
16:32 asciilifeform trisectors thread aha
16:32 mircea_popescu whores are not created by dope ; bodies are not created by guns ; idiots are not created by public schooling.
16:32 mircea_popescu dope caters to whores ; guns cater to corpses ; public schooliong caters to idiots.
16:34 asciilifeform i'm not convinced that all trisectors are organically tards
16:34 mircea_popescu not a matter of tard. matter of, must be this tall to ride.
16:34 asciilifeform even in this sense
16:34 mircea_popescu people come in random tallnesses, theorems come in random cutoffs.
16:35 mircea_popescu what's he to do if he loves a woman like malena but she needs a man now and he'll be a man in a decade ?
16:35 mircea_popescu seen that film btw ?
16:35 asciilifeform no but recently read the ro trilema re subj - and it is on the list
16:35 mircea_popescu it is the definitive film on one of italian culture's principal obsessions. malizia is not bad in same vein, there are many.
16:36 mircea_popescu the woman is ready to go. the boy wants her. but a boy is not useful and a man he is not yet.
16:36 mircea_popescu it's refined to nuclear strength in that film.
16:36 mircea_popescu and so -- has theorem to prove, hasn't yet grown the tool to prove them with. this is doom, pure and simple.
16:37 asciilifeform there's 2 possible responses to 'i need to move mountain but haven't the muscle'
16:38 asciilifeform one is to retreat into shamanisms
16:38 asciilifeform other -- is to pump muscles
16:38 asciilifeform i.e. discipline.
16:38 mircea_popescu i think the problem is very correctly stated "she is 22 and ovulating and i am 13 and love her". no mountains, no muscles.
16:38 asciilifeform there is no guarantee that pumper will live long enough. but certainly no one lives long enough for the shamanic spells to work either
16:38 mircea_popescu it's not live long enough. is that the girl for you is not interesting and the girl that's interesting is not for you.
16:39 mircea_popescu i told you, doom. in the greekest sense.
16:39 asciilifeform i think nagant comes with 'the girl that's for you, is not interesting, the interesting - not for you' engraved on the barrel
16:39 asciilifeform or sumthing.
16:40 mircea_popescu yup.
16:40 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-11#1430089
16:40 a111 Logged on 2016-03-11 02:32 mircea_popescu: Pedalavo come se fuggissi, e in realta fuggivo, da lei, da quelle emozioni, da i sogni, da i ricordi, da tutto. E pensavo che dovevo dimenticare. Ero certo che sarei riuscito a dimenticare. Ma oggi che sono vecchio, che ho consumato banalmente la vita, talchè ho conosciuto tante donne che m'hanno detto "ricordati di me" e io le ho scordate tutte, ancora oggi lei, l'unica che non ho mai dimenticato... Sutakora Sassa!
16:41 mircea_popescu lol scam link. apparently there's an older correct version, 2015s vintage.
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~
18:31 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:31 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4309.98, vol: 12700.64127392 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4323.1, vol: 35168.48083258 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4333.345506, vol: 18021.89790000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4337.939, vol: 7744.71405705 | Volume-weighted last average: 4324.90530368
18:36 mircea_popescu dear celestial mommy in charge of government and all things, we thank you for regulating this new pile of dollars into bitcoin's value. amen.
18:38 mircea_popescu let's eat some brocoli and tell some dork we love her in gratitude!
18:46 mircea_popescu in other lulz : iranis ready to back out of obama nuke deal ; and flying chinese drones over us carriers.
18:51 ben_vulpes great again
18:51 ben_vulpes great again
18:52 mircea_popescu you will not repants us!
18:54 * mod6 scrollsback
19:00 ben_vulpes repant, repent, repatriate
~ 30 minutes ~
19:31 mircea_popescu meanwhile in white chicks cornhole, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4606f5ab1ef687f72a2e47665baa6fd7/tumblr_o2qyr20l271uys2bto1_400.gif
19:33 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694226 << lool I would pick the latter. So you have to type out some paths. Doesn't this fall under http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-17#955319 ??
19:33 a111 Logged on 2017-08-05 19:13 asciilifeform: if i had to pick b/w not having indoor shitter and not having tab completion, i'd pick the former.
19:33 a111 Logged on 2014-12-17 04:11 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: can't speak for others, but my programming is 90+% read/think and 10% write, timewise
19:34 mircea_popescu he never had to dig a latrine, or carry the 3kg shovel you need to cary to be able to dig a latrine. consequently experience cost of that branch = 0
19:34 mircea_popescu he sometime once did have to type in a path and so the experience cost of that branch > 0.
19:34 mircea_popescu as all the things we don't know about don't exist, the choice is a no brainer yes.
19:41 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> dear celestial mommy in charge of government and all things, we thank you for regulating this new pile of dollars into bitcoin's value. amen. << :D
19:50 * trinque has dug, and used
19:50 trinque I'll just say "wasps" and let the imagination fill in the other aspects.
19:53 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1699477 << gotta wonder how mircea_popescu arrived at this notion.
19:53 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 23:34 mircea_popescu: he never had to dig a latrine, or carry the 3kg shovel you need to cary to be able to dig a latrine. consequently experience cost of that branch = 0
19:55 asciilifeform but answer is , digging a hole for 2hrs is sweaty work, but it isn't a thorn in what would otherwise be a flow state, the way missing tab complete is.
19:57 asciilifeform sorta how a kg of shit in your latrine is same as 1.1, but even 10g on your birthday cake is conspicuously sad.
20:02 asciilifeform re shells, lack of completion is the kind of screaming imbecility for which there is no justification-- you're already sitting in front of a machine, it could be doing 100% of the algo-trivial brute work. rather than 90% - worst of both worlds, bulldozer that still leaves you with 2hr of shovel.
~ 35 minutes ~
20:37 danielpbarron ya but with the toilet you could be sitting ~on~ the machine doing some of that 90% thinking
20:40 asciilifeform i dun follow..
20:42 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the depths of cthonian horrors, https://qualiacomputing.com
20:43 asciilifeform e.g. https://qualiacomputing.com/2015/05/22/how-to-secretly-communicate-with-people-on-lsd/ >> 'About 18 months ago I had a really cool idea: What if we could communicate with people who are high on LSD in such a way that sober people can’t understand?* I call this idea psychedelic cryptography (PsyCrypto for short).'
20:43 asciilifeform didjaknow.
20:44 asciilifeform paging gabriel_laddel !
20:44 shinohai top kek
20:44 asciilifeform ( or was it adlai )
20:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey, im not defending random strawman. point was, you have yet to spend 2 hours typing in paths. so no, picking that over latrine is at best figure of speech, and in general simply "discount cost of unlived experience to 0"
20:50 asciilifeform point is that not all 2hrs are created equal
20:51 mircea_popescu this sword could cut both ways.
20:52 mircea_popescu http://68.media.tumblr.com/53d4fd7084d33b37d3d9b33d6a9b70e3/tumblr_o2qa8moHWK1u32iy8o1_500.gif << good ass is more than a state of mind.
20:54 mod6 badonk
~ 51 minutes ~
21:46 shinohai https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2P0mVpUUAAwPeJ.jpg <<< moar assets
21:50 mod6 nom nom
21:58 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698698 << i was incorrect about this
21:58 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 03:20 mod6: for the record, i don't have that in my builds either, ignore that mike_c
21:58 mod6 phf ^
21:58 mod6 my builds do indeed have this.
22:00 mod6 so, when mike_c gets a chance, we'll examine his closely to see if his does indeed exist. and it ~should~.
22:05 mod6 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rqJZh/?raw=true << for example
22:06 asciilifeform in other noose, how come nobody noticed that we can accumulate the carry in Karatsuba_Term, and ripple it out once instead of 3 times per firing ...
22:06 * mod6 looks
22:10 mod6 for i in N'Length .. XM'Length - 1 loop << so you can remove this loop then?
22:10 asciilifeform well no
22:10 asciilifeform it gotta happen once
22:10 asciilifeform at the end of a karatsubaization
22:12 asciilifeform right now it happens 3 times per.
22:12 asciilifeform propagating a 0, 1, or -1 carry/borrow, depending
22:14 mod6 Ah, I admit, earlier I didn't have much chance at all to review this. In fact, to wrap my head around the fine points of ffa's more complex routines, takes me some time.
22:14 asciilifeform but instead we can simply let Karatsuba_Term return the carry, and say c1, c2, c3 and in the end we ripple out c1+c2+(-1^subtractenable) .
22:14 asciilifeform dun worry mod6
22:14 mod6 I've even had to whiteboard and unroll by hand to grasp some of its mechanics.
22:14 asciilifeform plenty of time to digest .
22:15 asciilifeform there are - by design- no deep maths in ffa.
22:16 mod6 Indeed, this is by design. But to ensure that I grok /exactly/ what it's doing, I am compelled to do by hand.
22:16 asciilifeform it also can be helpful to instrument the proggy and let it barf
22:16 asciilifeform see the steps.
22:17 mod6 sure, solid advise.
~ 31 minutes ~
22:48 mod6 hey!
22:48 mike_c good evening
22:49 mod6 mike_c: what version of Ubuntu are you trying to install upon?
22:49 mod6 (for sake of l0gz)
22:50 mike_c hm, 16? lemme check
22:50 mod6 ok, thanks.
22:51 mike_c yeah, 16.04
22:51 mod6 alright.
22:52 mod6 can you also do me a favor; `ls -al /var/trb/trb54/bitcoin/build/toolchain/usr/bin/` then paste.
22:54 mod6 (p.bvulpes.com ofc)
22:55 mike_c http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bHTek/?raw=true
22:56 mod6 thanks!
22:56 * mod6 looks
22:56 mike_c possibly relevant section of `history`
22:56 mike_c and the ls you asked for
22:57 mod6 yeah, hmm. so definatley something went wrong when unrolling all of the toolchain stuff from buildroot.
22:57 mod6 let me show you mine.
22:58 mod6 wait
23:00 mod6 i believe that to be the wrong dir you listed.
23:00 mod6 for instance, i think that to be: bitcoin/build/toolchain/usr/x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl/bin
23:00 mod6 as opposed to:
23:01 mike_c http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/xgob8/?raw=true
23:01 mod6 bitcoin/build/toolchain/usr/bin
23:02 mod6 very weird. check out mine here:
23:04 mike_c the anticipation is killing me
23:05 mod6 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/T8M6X/?raw=true
23:07 mod6 i've got 2 systems here that have successfuly built that I'm looking at. both look like this ^
23:07 mod6 one gentoo, one ubuntu
23:08 mod6 the one is exactly: Description: Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS
23:08 * mircea_popescu is so fucking thrilled to see "tools runs perfectly" lasting as long as it takes the fucktards to make a new version of whatever "os" package ;/
23:09 mod6 im not sure on this, something environmental it feels like -- yet, I have the same system with it working just peachy.
23:10 mike_c well, who knows. did yours come with gcc4?
23:10 mod6 I seriously we'll ever resolve this for all until we just have an OS that pre-staged for this build process.
23:10 mod6 *seriously doubt
23:11 mod6 mike_c: I don't think it did. I set this one up like back in the spring. And I'm fairly sure it came with gcc5 and i vanquished all the bs by hand.
23:11 mod6 It ~sucked~.
23:11 mod6 Lemme check it out.
23:11 mike_c i'll clean, rebuild, and check the logs carefully to try and see what happens with buildroot
23:11 mircea_popescu mike_c http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/iKxpS/?raw=true << did it ever progress past this "c nout found" bs ?
23:12 mike_c yes
23:12 mike_c that was gcc5
23:12 mike_c started from fresh VM, ran into this other situation.
23:12 mircea_popescu so what's the latest barf ?
23:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698767 << last checkpoint. then what happened ?
23:13 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 04:07 mike_c: so now I burn this server to the ground and start over.
23:13 mike_c it's looking for x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-gcc, which doesn't exist
23:13 mircea_popescu can you paste the whole thing ?
23:14 mike_c whole build output? I don't have it anymore, but I'm about to run it again and will save it.
23:14 mircea_popescu please do yes.
23:15 mircea_popescu just tee it to file / use screen and copy screen log as a standard practice when fighting build gnarl
23:15 mod6 before you haul off and run everything again, i think we aught to look at your update-alternatives
23:15 mod6 stand-by
23:16 mike_c too late, but we can do that too
23:17 mircea_popescu how goes PeterL
23:18 mod6 mike_c: what do these two say: ` update-alternatives --list gcc && update-alternatives --list g++`
23:18 PeterL hi, it's going ok
23:18 mircea_popescu cool
23:19 PeterL So, if anybody was going to try the reverse mpfhf I posted yesterday, it does not work
23:19 mircea_popescu was going to ask :D
23:19 mike_c it's /usr/bin/gcc-4.7 and /usr/bin/g++-4.7
23:19 PeterL just thought I should let you know while I work out the bugs
23:19 mod6 ok, that should be ok then, mike_c
23:20 mod6 and what about `echo $CC` anything set there?
23:20 mircea_popescu mod6 pretty sure something breaks earlier in the flow because all my systems do have the item his is complaining about lacking.
23:20 PeterL for a couple small examples it worked, so I think it is close
23:20 mod6 mircea_popescu: could be. very strange indeed.
23:21 * mircea_popescu fully expects something on the level of "oh, if you want patch you have to say explicitly" sorta nonsense.\
23:21 mod6 mike_c: also, how much disk space do you have available? this thing is gonna need like min 20G in the fs you're building in. does your /var have that much?
23:21 mike_c 200gb
23:21 mod6 ok, that should be way more than enough.
23:23 mod6 anything set with `echo $CC` ?
23:28 mike_c no
23:28 mod6 ok
23:28 mod6 i'll wait for your build log, that should help.
23:34 mircea_popescu meanwhile in the hallway, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0uhcwfbY31r4p8klo1_1280.jpg
~ 19 minutes ~
23:53 mircea_popescu mike_c that slow huh
23:58 mike_c yup
23:58 mike_c but it seems healthier this time.
23:58 mike_c it is using /var/trb/trb54/bitcoin/build/toolchain/usr/bin/x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-g++, so I guess it exists..
23:58 mike_c all I did was make clean
23:59 mike_c and make again
23:59 mod6 `make ONLINE=1` ? or did you copy in the deeds (for the deps) by hand?
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