#trilema | 2017-08-10

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/9rwwast4jm << example.

00:01

mircea_popescu: if it did not look like this, rsa would not even be useful

00:01

thinkaboitit

00:01

this is true.

00:02

i am now very suspicious you can't ever have a good solution, in the sense that if you find it... you'll have found a fine reason not to need it anymore.

00:02

depends what means 'good solution'

00:02

ain't looking for the rsa pill here. but for nonretarded variant of montgomery's algo

00:03

(i.e. always-worstcase)

00:04

yeah, well...

00:04

no, see. if you could have a not-always-worstcase fixtime algo you would have in fact found pill.

00:04

we want the opposite

00:05

always-worstcase modexp

00:05

hm ?

00:05

that's what constanttime is

00:05

alwaysworstcase.

00:05

but you have that lol, squaring

00:05

elementarily.

00:05

aha. we have one.

00:05

want -- faster.

00:06

recall, constanttime karatsuba did not (afaik) publicly exist before i posted it...

00:06

need same thing here again.

00:06

yes but...

00:09

asciilifeform ok, here's an idea :

00:10

hm?

00:10

folding ?

00:11

wassat

00:16

heh apparently injuns got this first. like so : https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/srds2009/escs2009_submission_Gopal.pdf

00:16

asciilifeform ^

00:17

found it back in may

00:17

it dun go

00:17

branches.

00:18

also uses the same idiotic sliding window thing that makes gpg2 radiate seekritbranchingly for kilometres

00:19

( because table lookups are nonconstanttime on just about any iron you can get your hands on. caches. )

00:19

remarkably compact, at that.

00:20

nogood tho. because cannot be expressed as FINITE, KNOWN (for particular ffawidth) sequence of good ol'fashioned word-arithmetic ops.

00:20

basically, you precompute conveniently chosen powers of 2, and then you get rid of most of the product larger than

00:20

mircea_popescu: this is the sliding window in gpg2.

00:21

asciilifeform but you don't have to use the crap parts. the idea itself is sound, further reduces any montgomery reduction.,

00:21

it needs branching omfg

00:21

not unrollable.

00:21

therefore rubbish.

00:22

mgh

00:22

makes the rest of ffa an exercise in complete pointlessness, to use anything of the kind.

00:23

this weekend i'ma see just how sad is key genning with the saddest but proper algo , quoted earlier.

00:23

( exp-via-squaring, mod after each squaring )

00:24

it'll be pretty sad, because squaring gives a doublewide bitness.

00:24

and division is O(N^2).

00:24

moreover, doesn't that leak exponent bits ? :D

00:24

how?

00:24

division dun branch on seekrit

00:24

at least mine doesn't

00:24

well, you do the whole polynomioal thing right ? if exponent is 1101 you do 3 out of 4 squares

00:24

(it subtracts EVERY time, then muxes )

00:24

nope.

00:24

4

00:24

read mine.

00:25

*

mircea_popescu goes and reads.

00:25

we dun branch!!!

00:25

we do 4 motherfucking squares, and 4 subtracts

00:25

the output is muxed via constanttimemuxer

00:25

( so sometimes 'not used', but the discarding takes provably same time as nondiscarding )

00:25

heh

00:25

nazi.

00:25

aha, very

00:26

well, at least it was painless to check the code, all of 30 seconda

00:26

aha. sorta whole point of this adventure

00:26

to have mircea_popescu et al go 'wtf this only took 30s to read'

00:26

can you picture, rsa that actually makes sense...

00:26

no wtf there. the wtf is more in the line of "check him out, he wants to use a computer without the if key"

00:27

it's called algebra, lol

00:27

lol

00:27

'computer without if'

00:27

aka closed form

00:28

speeking of which...

00:28

*

asciilifeform bbl, meat

00:29

*

mircea_popescu thinks "well... what if you had a group instead, and you could... o fuck me, discrete logarithms. guess what, another basis for cryptosystems".

~ 35 minutes ~

01:05

in other veryolds, somehow i missed https://archive.is/Kw78h

01:05

not many folx get to be murdered twice !!

01:11

lmao

01:12

how the fuck does the church "decide to terminate the family's lease"

01:16

in other lulz, some dude drove over a half dozen french whatever they are, soldiers-polizei.

01:17

how does a church , e.g., ordain genderfucked priest

01:17

... like-so !

01:17

asciilifeform mno. church can ordain whatever the fuck it pleases ; but a lease is not at-will wtf is the point even.

01:17

"i'll just dump these remains in your back yard, throw them out whenever you're sick of them" is not what a lease says.

01:18

can't say read d00d's lease

01:18

* i read

01:19

still. every lease i ever saw/signed had fixed term for leasor at will clause for leaser.

01:19

because otherwise what the hell, it's not a lease it's a girlfriendizing contract.

01:21

these people shit on contracts, promises, etc whenever it suits'em

01:22

there's a word for such :

01:22

недоговороспособные

01:23

old norse called them 'nithlings'

01:23

modern english, unsurprisingly, has no word...

~ 47 minutes ~

02:10

BingoBoingo

<asciilifeform> modern english, unsurprisingly, has no word... << "Indian Givers"

~ 3 hours 35 minutes ~

05:46

asciilifeform amusingly, that actually translates "incompetent" in english, which is the right word. "without the ability of entering contracts".

05:50

in other lulz : usg.wikipedia agitprop has an open ended article on propaganda truths : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis_%282014%E2%80%932017%29

05:51

i expect "scientifically proven" a la "climate change" no less ?

05:57

in other unintentional lulz / comedy self-crits, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Pn-picketing-1998-sept-people.jpg

06:05

(nemtsov, recently assassinated, was, of course, the guy putin beat for to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-21#1687959, yeltsin's chosen successor. ah what a great party it'd have been, for teh pantsuits. clinton forever, herdemocracy herp derp... then gore lost to bush, nemtsov lost to putin, nyc lost to gravity, sads sads sads.)

↖ ↖

06:05

Logged on 2017-07-21 00:02 phf: by the time i started figuring out the socioeconomic part of the question it was a year too late (they started tightening the screws some time before putin came to power, which was not so much the beginning but the announcement of the done deal. i remember '99 the situation of a lot of people changed drastically.)

06:11

great "anti-corruption" guy too. let's preserve say http://nemtsov.ru/2015/02/ura-patrioty-ne-platyat-nalogi/

~ 1 hours 11 minutes ~

07:23

!!up andrei4257

07:23

andrei4257 voiced for 30 minutes.

07:35

andrei4257

eram doar curios daca se mai intampla ceva aici

07:35

andrei4257

aparent nu

07:38

andrei4257 who were you again ?

~ 1 hours 11 minutes ~

08:49

Morning mircea_popescu

08:50

heya

08:54

http://archive.is/MT7G8 <<< lulzy

08:55

oh and speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-09#1696188 and faux ngos : the "organized crime and corruption reporting project", owned by a maryland state dept offshoot, is this "github for retarded euro-orks willing to journalism for free in furtherance of us "anti-corruption" anti-sovereignity agenda'.

08:55

Logged on 2017-08-09 22:47 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : obviously there's a "foundation" and a "code of conduct" (the usgistani nonsense copy/pasted) and a freenode chan, why not. ~600 accounts logged in (specifically : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yDU6G/?raw=true ) , ZERO anyone has to say at all whatsoever. most are related to matrix.org, which is a pile of nonsensical lulz which you're more than welcome to try and make sense of by yourself. in any case, it's an "

08:56

mostly used to launder "leaks" in the vein of "russian hackers" would have obtained had the leaks pointed the other way.

08:56

possibly the largest end product of the whole mechanical orange revolutions effort of rice's dept of state.

09:07

https://www.occrp.org/en/spooksandspin/how-macedonias-scandal-plagued-nationalists-lobbied-americas-right-and-pulled-them-into-an-anti-soros-crusade/ rather typical offering.\

09:15

meanwhile, amusingly enough, soros' long standing tax evasion conviction or any mention of his decades on the lam have somehow entirely disappeared from all usg's wikipedias. NEVER OCCURED!!!

~ 23 minutes ~

09:38

shinohai cnn / politico / etc displaying a knowledge of physics entirely typical of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-24#1689742

09:38

Logged on 2017-07-24 17:53 mircea_popescu: "Oakley is among a growing number of educators who view intermediate algebra as an obstacle to students obtaining their credentials particularly in fields that require no higher level math skills." << teh confusion of ideas ffs.

09:39

"acoustic attacks", really. because why, we don't know how to calculate the energy carried by a wave of specified frequency, or anything whatsoever about flow in fluids, and so on.

~ 26 minutes ~

10:05

for the record : a decibel is the log10 of the ratio between a measured sound energy density and 10^-12 J/m^3. consequently the energy of sound at 150 decibels (such as the sonic blast of a jet taking off at 25m, capable of rupturing eardrums) corresponds to an energy density of 10 ^ (150/10) * 10 ^ -12 = 1000 J/m^3.

10:05

for comparison, a 100 gram tennisball capable of giving a pretty girl a nasty bruise would be going sa 100 km/h and thereby hit for .1 * (100/3.6)^2/2 ~= 40 J over its 0.001 cubic metre space, ie about 40 times more than the jet's "acoustic attack". a 8-gram 9mm round perfectly capable of making a whole new hole hits for 0.008 * 300 ^ 2 / 2 = 360 J over its 20 * 2*4.5*pi = 5.65 * 10^-7 volume, ie about 650`000 times the jet's

10:05

"acoustic attack".

10:06

of course, the acoustic energy saturation dampens with distance (by the cube) and with obstacles. the jet needs something to the tune of 100 MW to take off, and all this buys you at close range and in open air is bleeding from the ears, not magical symptoms such as bruises, concussions or other mysteries.

10:07

not to mention, of course, that everyone in the area can also hear it, there's nothing mysterious about it. yes there are ways to carry sound over inaudible ultrasound as a modulation, but guess what ? that takes even more energy! a lot more, in fact.

10:07

meanwhile the entire capacity of cuba's electricity network is what, 8 MW or so ?

10:07

*

shinohai just assumed the "acoustical attack" was having American pop music piped through the PA system ....

10:08

maybe they got cancer from listening to ustardian daytime tv.

10:09

lolz

10:11

!!up PeterL

10:11

PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.

10:13

shinohai maybe russian hackers did it. they messed with cuba's sound.dll

10:13

or something.

10:14

mircea_popescu: recall the french 7hz riot controller ?

10:14

mornin

10:15

asciilifeform yes ? though it was israeli iirc, and worked irl abou as well as the recently reported stink bombs.

10:15

practicaljoakes with sound aint about joules, they're about resonances in body

10:16

asciilifeform this works better in theory than in practice.

10:16

anyway, the kenyan's legacy is one of the lulziest lulzfests in lulzhistory. so, he came to power on a mandate to close down gitmo, which he didn't do, and to roll back bush era power grabs which he didn't do. instead of doing what he promised he decided to do other things!

10:16

such as : epochal switch on cuba! it... didn't survive his term.

10:16

new ally : iran!!! it... didn't survive his term.

10:16

obamacare!!!! it...

10:16

and so on.

10:16

mircea_popescu: the 7hz thing works, but quite useless because... not directional

10:17

and because other problems with it.

10:17

all this wunderwaffen is just like the railgun, if you recall that discussion.

10:17

"we're running out of oil, letr's find fun things to do with electricity"

10:17

moar like the microwave blaster

10:17

except... oh noes! oil was actually pretty fucking irreplaceably cool ?!?!!?

10:18

asciilifeform recall back when the various uss self-destroyers got equipped with "LRAD" for great bezzles ? 90s fad.

10:19

i thought it was marketed to cargo lines

10:19

as ersatz pirate repellent

10:19

afaik only buyer was usg.

10:19

maersk iirc bought

10:19

right.

10:19

( did the expected amt , lol, of good )

10:20

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694588 << bears repeating.

10:20

Logged on 2017-08-06 16:42 mats: https://www.rt.com/news/397724-israeli-stink-bombs-india

10:20

i saw one on ebay recently

10:20

( lradtron )

10:20

Hi everybody, here is my gossipd with the changes suggested yesterday http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pf24N/?raw=true

10:20

~only known use for item comes from the 90s, have nympho take a seat on overturned woofer.

10:21

PeterL what did you end up putting in, wrote keccak variant ?

10:21

mircea_popescu: normal hardwarestore woofer tho

10:22

I just put in the crc32 as a checksum

10:22

yeah.

10:22

PeterL you can't use unpadded rsa. it du nwork that way.

10:23

asciilifeform anyway, afair the threshold for ultrasound biodetectable effects (in rats) was 180db or so.

10:24

pretty much only danger is if you're submerged.

10:24

well, it is not unpadded, it uses the random byte string as the pad

10:24

*

mircea_popescu looks.

10:25

mircea_popescu: ideally you fire converging ultra at victim, with infra beat result

10:25

PeterL you have a max nick size now ? it is a bad idea to specify protocol semantics at transport level. let me sign my lines whichever way i want, not care about it.

10:25

( also great for 'madness voices' )

10:26

asciilifeform if victim were spherical and resided in vacuum...

10:26

PeterL also there's specifically no allowance for "time" to be transferred. receiving station timestamps with its own time.

10:26

well, I guess I should put in something, I guess your nick can't be longer than the message size or there would be no room for any message

10:27

wtf, ever got a card in the mail, "this card was received at 3:55 pm" penciled in by sender ?

10:27

PeterL you really don't give a shit. whatever the message is, you truncate it to 220 or what was it and send.

10:28

modularize, let each part worry about its own domain.

10:28

hrm, when you get it it prints the time recieved and who from, then prints the message that was sent "time, who, message"

10:28

not what teh spec says!

10:28

I will review that again

10:29

PeterL incidentally, did oyu rebase instead of patching ?

10:29

didn't sign anything yet, nothing to patch off of

10:30

true. the obvious advantage of patching is that it makes it easier for readers of code to review deltas. but then again, rebasing makes it easier for writer, less shit to maintain. balancing act.

10:30

PeterL can you explain this ping mechanism ?

10:30

yes, I see

10:31

actually, I was going to put in a ping but then didn't get around to it yet

10:31

why do you want it ?

10:32

the idea being that you could keep track of who is getting your messages

10:32

sort of a "who is online right now" thing

10:32

yes, but it ruins the security of the scheme, as i don't expect you will be sending pings to ips associated with bogus keys ?

10:32

but then I was thinking maybe we wouldn't want that anyway

10:33

there's no real concept of "online" i can form in my mind. for instance, am i online when i'm not online ? i do read the logs... in what sense am i not online ?

10:33

the idea would be to ping everybody, and have an option for wther or not you respond to pings

10:34

if the machine is on and i'm long dead, am i online cuz it pings ?

10:34

it just makes no sense.

10:35

*

asciilifeform recalls naggum's box... it still runs

10:35

PeterL is there any security contemplated for the data, such as i dunno, encrypt the lists of peers / keys / history etc ? or simply a case of "fuck you secure your machine" ?

10:35

asciilifeform aha!

10:35

^ p works same

10:35

asciilifeform huh ?

10:36

at the moment there is no securing of data. that would be something to add before battlefield use.

10:37

privkeys are plaintext ( you can cipher them via some other cmdline util, or even another piped p, but no nonsense re 'bitcoin-style' enter-aes-pw etc )

10:37

i expect at least one's own history should be kept encrypted to a key of his.

10:37

asciilifeform gpg does teh same thing.

10:37

aha, and it's placebocin

10:38

*

mircea_popescu was a major, and in fact for a year or so the only proponent of encrypted wallets for btc.

10:38

once implemented, "theft" dropped like 90%. which is more than any usgstani effort has, or ever will do.

10:39

at any rate user can make his key , e.g., nextprime(rngolade-kept-ondisk) * nextprime(hash(pw)) if he explicitly wants

10:39

um no,

10:40

nextprime(h(another rngoladd on disk + pw))

10:40

lol

10:40

lol

10:40

also, my question re crc32 yesterday, I meant to say: given a (random) string of 250 chars, what is the proability that (random four byte string) will pass the crc32 test? which I think is just 1/256^4

10:41

mircea_popescu: you get the idea. no reason to standardize the diddle.

10:41

PeterL if your string is 250 chars, there is 0 probability that an up to 32 bit setcion being altered in any way will not be caught up

10:41

this is what crc does : for blasts up to its size, 100%. for larger blasts, proportionate.

10:41

!!up PeterL

10:41

PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.

10:41

not trying to catch changes, trying to catch random string accidentally passing the check

10:42

that is not something crc does ?

10:42

crc checks that the string is the same now as it was when crc was originalyl computed

10:43

if you're asking "what is the probability of a 4000 bit string being randomly generated so it matches an arbitrary crc32", the answer is you know, 1 in infinity.

10:43

aaactually chance of computing randomturd-cum-crc is no lower than 1/bitness-of-crc

10:43

which is rather high

10:44

*randomturd that passes

10:44

think..

10:44

asciilifeform in my model the crc was also random.

10:44

well yes

10:44

literally, "came out of rsa as garbage".

10:44

aha

10:44

still holds

10:45

are you trying to say that since there's only 2^32 possible values for the crc, it then follows that 1 in 4bn will match ?

10:45

hint: consider payload P and crc C as indep. vars

10:45

aha!!

10:47

a cheap improvement would be to write down also the LZW compression ratio.

10:48

(and in any case, this is also a major improvement over gpg, which realloy only uses 2^16, and worked ok in the field for many years)

10:52

PeterL + padlen = min(keya.l, keyb.l) - 1 # make sure that the strings will not overflow the key mods << i don't get it, why do you have variable length keys ?

10:53

all keys same size. ideally as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524210 discussion at that

10:53

Logged on 2016-08-18 12:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're on this btw, the way i want tmsr-rsa key generation to work is as follows : a contains a number of entropy bytes specified by user in tmsr-rsa.conf read whenever tmsr-rsa.conf specifies (such as urandom); b contains a base-tmsr string specified by user. c = base-tmsr(a).b ; p = nextprime(cut(sha512(c),257)) ; process is repeated for q = nextprime (cut(sha512(c'),258));

10:54

257, 258, 515.

10:54

ah, originally I had it written to allow user to change key sizes, that is a holdover just in case

10:55

lzw is neither here nor there, you can't rely on payload being compressible

10:58

*

asciilifeform bbl, meat

10:58

asciilifeform most very likely will be.

10:59

PeterL no case ; key size is fixed.

11:09

oh, and I was trying to make the functions more general, avoid putting in magic numbers as much as possible

~ 22 minutes ~

11:31

Hi, I've updated the howto, it's not "finalized" yet. Please take a look and let me know if this doesn't read quite right, or if I've left something out:

11:31

http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto-new.html

11:33

^ looks good mod6

11:35

Thanks for taking a look shinohai

11:36

maybe i aught to add 'diff' on that list. it is inexplicable to me that it wouldn't be there, but then again, lol.

11:36

updated

11:37

Yeah I forgot you had a guy with some sort of linux that didn't have diff

11:38

I think it was patch, but yeah, maybe I'm mis-remembering that.

11:39

my V doesn't use diff anyway, only patch, gpg, sha512sum, and wget -- and otherwise just standard shell tools such as echo, mkdir, rm, cat, etc.

11:39

But wouldn't be a bad idea to throw it on there in the case where someone, decides to use the linked vdiff script, which uses diff.

11:44

Updated the formatting too.

11:46

ugh, something went sideways, standby

11:49

Ok, I think it's better now.

~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~

13:05

alright, I have published those changes to : http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html

~ 17 minutes ~

13:22

http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/10/unboxing-and-set-up-of-nosuchlabs-fuckgoats-on-macos-openbsd-linux/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Unboxing and set-up of NoSuchlAbs FUCKGOATS on MacOS? OpenBSD? LINUX!!

~ 45 minutes ~

14:08

hallo

14:09

i promise that this will be the last emergency troubleshooting about TRB

14:09

i feel that i'm very near of a succesful compiling of bitcoind, especially after the update of the guide

14:10

hi, how goes ?

14:11

is going very well for a beginner

14:11

you know, a satisfacting terminal try & die till everything works

14:11

so, this is the last error mod6

14:11

alright

14:12

https://pastebin.com/4JsG5uTN

14:13

since gcc is present i think that is some kind of env problem

14:13

yeah, it does not seem to understand where 'c' is located.

14:14

but i really cannot figure out what i could try before running again the make command

14:14

did everything press alright with V ?

14:14

:) please tell me that the solution is right around the corner, like adding a CC=/path/to/something into the makefile

14:14

!~later tell pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/10/unboxing-and-set-up-of-nosuchlabs-fuckgoats-on-macos-openbsd-linux/#comment-58669

14:14

jhvh1

asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

14:14

yes V had no problems

14:15

ok good deal.

14:16

^ That pthread issue I solved on Debian by going to /usr/share/cmake and changing a line in CheckIncludeFiles.cmake

14:17

lemme try

14:18

ok, in ubuntu no /usr/share/cmake dir for me

14:18

even in /usr/local/share no presence of cmake dir

14:18

yeah, this looks like it might be something with your /etc/alternatives or something

14:18

im not sure. digging...

14:18

Find the line: `CMAKE_CONFIGURABLE_FILE_CONTENT}\n\nint main(){return 0;}\n")` and put `void` in the parentheses after int main()

14:19

into the makefile.unix under src?

14:19

No in the file CheckIncludeFiles under your cmake installation

14:19

(modules folder)

14:20

going to check on ubuntu where is located

14:20

seems different from debian

14:21

edivad: could you paste your makefile plz ?

14:21

under src or the main?

14:21

both

14:22

https://thepasteb.in/p/zmh8oRpVm2nHZ

14:22

this is under src ^

14:23

other one

14:23

https://thepasteb.in/p/wjh03Lzr23ofv

14:23

this is the main

14:24

mod6: i think his buildroot failed

14:24

so should i delete everything and start from scratch?

14:24

yes

14:24

start over.

14:24

ok

14:24

no problem

14:24

can i keep the .wot folder?

14:25

( it failed, and from the posted barf it is not possible to yet say why )

14:25

since is a hell lot of copy paste?

14:25

edivad: yes

14:25

ok nice

14:25

i would blow everything away and start over following exact instructions in the howto

14:26

i'm gonna leave the actual dir for future forensics analysis when i'll be moar expert and now i'm going to create another one

14:29

is now downloading again boost, meanwhile i would like to ask some questions about the fuckgoats device

14:29

that maybe someone can answer later and i will check on the logs

14:30

basically, i recently learned how to generate private keys with a D16 + paper and pencil, and i thought that was a great way to have low cost true entropy

14:30

edivad: are you doing the online or offline build?

14:31

now online mod6

14:31

ok, that /is/ a bit less steps, so a decent place to start until you get the hang of the process.

14:31

exactly

14:32

edivad: it's pretty expensive to use dice if your time has value.

14:32

per-byte.

14:32

so, back to the question, is the fuckgoats device meant to be, for instance, if i run a bitcoin service that constantly need to generate private keys, let's say, for example, for an hot wallet?

14:33

for instance.

14:33

i thought that dice was great for cheap and safe cold storage, if done it right

14:34

but yes, asciilifeform, is very time consuming if you need to do repeatedly

14:34

and one thing that i haven't learnt yet is how to generate a bip 44 compliant seed with dice

14:35

it's a dumb idea

14:35

because you know, with a bip 44 compliant seed, you then generate your extended public key, and you can leave your dice in the drawer

14:36

wasn't able to learn because those damn seeds have a last checksum word (that maybe is a perfectly ok security feature, but it cuts out manual experiments with dice)

14:36

!#s bip44

14:36

0 results for "bip44", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bip44

14:36

!#s bip 44

14:36

2 results for "bip 44", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bip%2044

14:36

!#s deterministic wallet

14:36

10 results for "deterministic wallet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=deterministic%20wallet

14:37

ok going to check the results

14:40

> the state-of-the-art among thinking folk is that pre-generated tx are stored on paper and fed into a hot node when necessary

14:41

absolutely true

14:42

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-04#1396046 << see thread

14:42

Logged on 2016-02-04 01:12 asciilifeform: why the FUCK would i

14:43

why would you do this to yourself

14:43

enemy only needs to steal ONE seed to get every privkey your ever generate

14:43

( and possibly he can also set up a lattice and derive your key from N signatures )

14:43

so basically, tell me if I'm wrong

14:44

using deterministic shit, I'm reducing the entropy of my keys, correct?

14:44

elementarily

14:44

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696617 << very minimally just in case tho, you know.

14:44

Logged on 2017-08-10 15:39 mod6: But wouldn't be a bad idea to throw it on there in the case where someone, decides to use the linked vdiff script, which uses diff.

14:44

and not simply 'reducing entropy', but introducing a relationship between all of them

14:44

that's some good warning that should be public in many places

14:45

edivad the public wants entertainment not education.

14:45

but you know, user friendliness is going to fuck hard security perception of mainstream users

14:46

that's quite sad, but there's nothing that will stop this general trend

14:46

imo

14:47

yes. there's isn't, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active.

14:49

since i'm not yet capable to remember my 64 characters hex private key, there is a way to convert it in a seed without decreasing the security, and maybe being able to memorize it?

14:49

i mean, not in a seed

14:49

in some random words that can be converted into the 64 hex original key

14:50

why not just use dicelist method.

14:50

edivad: ever read about mnemonists ? the stage magicians.

14:50

do you mean with paper and pencil, and then storing the paper in some hole very distant from NSA eyes? mircea_popescu

14:51

http://trilema.com/2012/romanian-dicelist/ << see there.

14:51

thanks

14:51

write yourself one in veneto for max lulz.

14:52

well veneto is quite far from where i live

14:52

mod6: You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales

14:53

this is where i'm stuck now

14:53

edivad whatever local dialect you speak.

14:53

yes i know what you mean

14:54

i could even try with pornstar names

14:54

aha.

14:54

at these times porn industry should have generated enough pornstar name entropy

14:54

keep in mind that forgetting your 'alphabet' is just as good as forgetting the key

14:55

only need ~6.6k. there's about 100k total whores in the pron records.

14:55

asciilifeform nobody ever forgets a whore!!!11

14:55

lol

14:56

mod6: auto-solved the last problem with sudo locale-gen en_US.UTF-8

14:56

this time google has figured out

14:57

strange, im not sure what you mean.

14:57

i was in a mint system without generated locales

14:58

so had to generate it

14:58

it's ok now?

14:58

apparently is going forward well

14:58

In pantsuit lulz: http://archive.is/b3RTa

14:58

asciilifeform re 2 weeks, i readily believe.

14:58

and when you say 'mint' you don't mean 'linux mint' right? just a *new/clean* ubuntu sys?

14:59

yes, a fresh installation

14:59

ok good to denote. thanks. let us know if it all builds fine for ya.

14:59

to be complete, is an lxc container that is running over proxmox

15:00

and i must admit, i grown up with deterministic wallets in my heart and in just a couple of minutes realized how a dumb move it was

15:03

a deterministic wallet can have its uses, but they typically aren't "user trying to cheat on running a node".

15:05

hanbot

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696608 << looks crisp, though imho "To build TRB, you are going to need some basic requirements on your system environment." is spurious unless said requirements are specified...the next line about packages and list of same seem sufficient.

15:05

Logged on 2017-08-10 15:31 mod6: Hi, I've updated the howto, it's not "finalized" yet. Please take a look and let me know if this doesn't read quite right, or if I've left something out:

15:08

mod6: same error again

15:09

https://thepasteb.in/p/DRhjlB5vA00cy

15:09

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696649 << are you saying cmake ships broken ?!

15:09

Logged on 2017-08-10 18:19 shinohai: No in the file CheckIncludeFiles under your cmake installation

15:09

going to do the third clean run, since i have generated the locale in the middle of the process

15:09

edivad wouldja use p

15:09

hanbot

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696464 << primo dunning-kruger this morning. no awareness of logs, doesn't keep him from expecting the chicken coop chatter of "things are happening!" at expected rate.

15:09

Logged on 2017-08-10 11:35 andrei4257: eram doar curios daca se mai intampla ceva aici

15:09

edivad wouldja use p.bvulpes.com like sane people ?

15:10

i'm abusing of it in some way that i haven't noticed?

15:11

you keep coming up with random pastebins.

15:11

hanbot heh. i expect it's deeper than that, though. dork is romanian, and that country had a ~50 year period of enforced equality-through-poverty the likes of which the us can only dream of. this has the side benefit of every kid expecting every other kid be you know, a goat of ~same size. maybe this other guy has a slightly newer car, that's the accepteable limit of it.

15:12

this was very noticeable even when i was organising conferences for local bloggers / getting romania's new right party a headquarters etc. "oh, this doesn't really happen, mp can't really exist" etc bla bla.

15:12

ok i will use the other pastebin no problem

15:12

by now the psychological tension is intolerable though, "what, billionaire ?!?!?! what, tmsr ?!?!" etc. there's that little old jewish mother's voice in the back of their skull, "how come this one could and you can't ?" that's utterly killing them.

15:13

mircea_popescu: The cmake in Debian/Ubuntu repositories used to have that pthread bug, first time I built a trb with `V` that happened.

15:13

denial very cheap solution to resolve this pressure.

15:13

shinohai consider reporting on their list ? maybe.

15:13

hanbot

mircea_popescu : i seem to remember a period in which the .ro line went that you were "illegal", yeah.

15:14

o yeah, recall that ? "reality diverged from comfortable model thereof, but it has been denied with appropriate incantations and can now go back to bed. i wonder what's on tv ?"

15:14

It was fixed apparently: https://cmake.org/Bug/view.php?id=15058

15:14

a ok then.

15:15

shinohai: may I ask how I can find CheckIncludeFiles under Ubuntu?

15:16

so i can change the line that you have posted

15:16

*

shinohai is happy to no longer suffer from Debian/Ubuntu infection

15:16

<+shinohai> mircea_popescu: The cmake in Debian/Ubuntu repositories used to have that pthread bug, first time I built a trb with `V` that happened. << i don't remember ever having this issue fwiw

15:16

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696641 << that file.

15:16

Logged on 2017-08-10 18:16 shinohai: ^ That pthread issue I solved on Debian by going to /usr/share/cmake and changing a line in CheckIncludeFiles.cmake

15:16

mod6 me either. nfi, prolly cuz of ubuntu packaging.

15:17

edivad: If it isn't in /usr/share then you may have to grep for it .... tbh I rarely used Ubuntu so

15:20

I did: shinohai@trb locate CheckIncludeFiles.cmake

15:20

/usr/share/cmake/Modules/CheckIncludeFiles.cmake

15:20

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696685 << it's cheap in the sense making your shoes by hand is cheap. it can be fun, but that's as far as it goes. leaving aside problems of how much a pair of aluminum, ruby or w/e dice cost (ie, GOOD dice), a throw provides you with a few bit's worth, FG spits out kB's worth per second. on a per-entropy-bit cost, figuring in capital goods, salary for the thrower, etcetera, FG is about 5 de

15:20

Logged on 2017-08-10 18:33 edivad: i thought that dice was great for cheap and safe cold storage, if done it right

15:20

grees of magnitude cheaper.

15:21

edivad: if `locate` doesn't find it, perhaps a simple find will: `find / -name "CheckIncludeFiles.cmake"`

15:22

shinohai: found

15:22

here is mine

15:22

https://pastebin.com/wa99MXm4

15:22

it's pretty much already modded as you have told

15:22

edivad use p.bvulpes.com not pastebin.com thepasteb.in etc.

15:23

ok

15:23

Ah ok .... so that must not be your particular issue

15:25

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-10#1696704 >> this is the real concern.

15:25

Logged on 2017-08-10 18:43 asciilifeform: ( and possibly he can also set up a lattice and derive your key from N signatures )

15:26

we have some expectations about security, they do not include the self-diddle that is "deterministic signatures", ie, i'll sign with a shitton of mathematically related privkeys.

15:26

all investigation of cryptosystems involved in bitcoin fundamentally rely on "unrelated keys" assumption.

15:26

can i read something about lattice? i haven't understood well the message

15:27

it's always been a major lulz for me that the same idiots howling about "don't reuse addresses -- it makes usg's pretense of defungibilizing bitcoin that less tenable" never happened to ever mention "don't deterministic wallets, it's on the level of cesar cipher homebrew".

15:29

because hey, that's what the public needs "experts" on the level of

15:30

what the fuck was that name of that poinless douche with a "tv show" and some "assistant" retarded chick masquerading about being me back in 2014ish ? k something

15:34

( meanwhile from the vintage cryptoidiocies file, http://archives.seul.org/tor/dev/Dec-2014/msg00099.html )

15:35

http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/ << keiser. whatever happened to him ?

15:35

see alf, some do go away.

15:38

asciilifeform do you know what else reuses a hardcoded IV ?

15:38

Keiser still fawning for camera apparently: http://archive.is/Flk31

15:39

shinohai heh.

15:39

mircea_popescu: gpg?

15:39

ding!

15:40

meanwhile from literature search, every article ever, apparently, written re 'constant time modular exponentiation' proposes... tables

15:40

aka death by cache differentials.

15:40

matrixes! ha-HA!\

15:41

'we sprayed perfume over the corpse, it is alive'

15:41

my intuitions while useless are entirely correct! i feel much better about self.

15:41

lol

15:41

the bitch with any such approach, as i realised last night. there is NO WAY to protect yourself from downstream cache. no way.

15:42

( for n00bz : indexed load from memory is a leaking operation on ~all extant iron )

15:42

you don't even have to know it's there, your code with your entire machine could be emulated later (a la bolix on chip say) and you'd suddenly be weak, even if you deliberately included no cache.

15:42

mircea_popescu: cache only comes into play if your memory fetch ~address~ sequence is secret-dependent

15:42

in currently published ffa set, none of the ops do this

15:42

and i ain't about to introduce any.

15:43

asciilifeform the whole fucking point of making a n-dimensional table, be it 1 or whatever else, is to avoid looking at all the cells all the time

15:43

( effect of caching is to make some addrs load, at particular ( or all ) times faster than others. )

15:43

mircea_popescu: we gotta. look. at. every. cell. every. time.

15:43

algebraic.

15:43

aha

15:43

that's not how the real world works tho!

15:44

lol

15:44

myeah

15:45

forn00bz: an, e.g., rsa modexp, in ffa, must be representable by a long roll of paper, on it are ops for ordinary 4function calculator, with very patient slave. and roll ONLY ROLLS FORWARD and has finite # of instructions on it, known in advance when you decide the ffa width.

↖ ↖

15:45

this terribler / tribler thing is a very amusing read.

15:46

importantly, same roll MUST work for all possible m^d mod n params.

15:46

(of given width.)

15:46

mircea_popescu: linked item was and remains quite typical of subj

15:46

asciilifeform amusingly, the guy complains about the modular exponentiation not being constant time. maybe write to him ask where he ever saw a sane algo ?

15:46

( various 'anon' shitchats and various pseudogossiptrons )

15:47

mircea_popescu: nobody knows , afaik, a sane algo. not 1 lib implements anything of the kind

15:47

openssl, for instance, features the one with tables

15:47

doesn't keep him from complaining about it, so worth an ask.

15:47

and leaks timing on every intel box since 1990s

15:48

mircea_popescu: also why not ask him re philosopher's stone!11

15:49

myeah.

15:51

while we're on the subj of 'cryptographers' : a constant time gcd is also apparently not known.

15:52

ditto modular inverse

15:52

ditto modular mult

15:55

plenty of nonsense claiming to solve these, entire forests annihilated. but EVERYONE pulled the scam described earlier ( memory indexed by secret value )

15:57

most don't even bother with this pretense. http://archive.is/GNrtB is a more typical idiocy

15:57

contribution to gmp

15:57

observe... ORDINARY BRANCHING!

15:58

claims ' Compute V <-- A^{-1} (mod M), in data-independent time.' in comments tho

15:58

exercise for reader : find the hidden conditionals.

16:01

actually hm, maybe not a lie

16:01

*

asciilifeform bbl, off to torture room

~ 18 minutes ~

16:20

https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/161.pdf >> for whoever it was who had asked re lattice solving for privkey

~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~

17:27

hallo

17:28

i have a super good news, node is compiled, up and running

17:28

thanks again to all of you that have helped me in the troubleshooting

17:29

now instructions are much clearer

17:30

\o/

17:31

Nice work edivad

17:31

now that i run a node i can consider myself truly part of tmsr?

17:32

Tis a start.

17:33

i think that is important to add to the guide that the average joe will need at least 6 gb of space in his hard disk to be able to compile from scratch TRB

17:35

i was doing the process in a 8gb container and at a point i wasn't so confortable continuing refreshing df to check my free space

17:36

trinque

pittance compared to what you'll need to hold the blockchain, eh?

17:36

problem is this

17:36