Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-09 | 2017-07-11 → ↓
00:31 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
00:31 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2500.08, vol: 4560.03660208 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2464.201, vol: 1952.86003 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2468.0, vol: 7779.68293227 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2549.010269, vol: 4006.95730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2502.999, vol: 3058.36567106 | Volume-weighted last average: 2494.71196232
~ 9 hours 59 minutes ~
10:30 mod6 mornin'
10:40 asciilifeform in other lulz, http://bitbet.us >> 404
10:40 asciilifeform ( for at least 2d )
10:46 mod6 dude vanished 'eh?
10:46 asciilifeform hey 1 time vanished for ~month and 'no problem'
10:52 shinohai Maybe new owner is busy znorting the profitz ?
10:52 shinohai (ba dum TISS)
10:59 phf https://archive.is/lyT2j << "The American college graduate allegedly beaten to death by a gang of 10 people in Greece was an aspiring entrepreneur who was visiting the country to launch his own fashion line."
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10:59 asciilifeform phf: http://qntra.net/2017/07/american-student-investor-lynched-in-greece/ earlier
10:59 phf ... i quoted it from qntra apparently
~ 58 minutes ~
11:58 shinohai !!up EIC
11:58 deedbot EIC voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 35 minutes ~
12:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681164 << amusingly this was discussed a coupla times in the logs, naive "owner" in thailands.
12:34 a111 Logged on 2017-07-10 14:59 phf: https://archive.is/lyT2j << "The American college graduate allegedly beaten to death by a gang of 10 people in Greece was an aspiring entrepreneur who was visiting the country to launch his own fashion line."
12:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that was my first thought when the qntra thing appeared but when went to look for it, LOST IT AGAIN!11
12:35 asciilifeform at this rate i'ma end up keeping paper notebooks again.
12:37 mircea_popescu lol
12:49 mircea_popescu what are we going to od ?!
12:50 mircea_popescu and in other overachievers, http://68.media.tumblr.com/563433a61a5162c0b7e7acad51ca9ed7/tumblr_ojxn4tCUnT1s5m6tyo1_1280.jpg
12:52 mod6 :]
~ 33 minutes ~
13:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in other lulz, https://whycardano.com
13:25 asciilifeform didjaknow.
13:28 mircea_popescu lemme guess, it conveniently makes fries on the side ? LIBERTY fries ?
13:29 mircea_popescu funny how nobody from the "concerned" peanut gallery is there on the congress floor uninvited every day, "hey guise, remember that time when oyu decided to rechristian french fries ? what happened to that ??? I THINK THE USD IS WORTHLESS!!!"\
13:29 mircea_popescu dat hipocrisy hunting, and its remarkably directional application.
13:30 asciilifeform 'Find a healthy middle ground for regulators to interact with commerce without compromising some core principles inherited from Bitcoin'
13:30 asciilifeform didjaknow.
13:30 mircea_popescu heh
13:30 mircea_popescu i eagerlyexpect the imperial "fuckgoats" bowdlerization
13:30 mircea_popescu i also do not expect we will ever call anything outside of the "pussygraber" "yesmeansanal" etc antipantsuit set
13:31 asciilifeform aha, i can't think of any good reason to.
13:32 mircea_popescu "that weird cult that calls everything by unprintable names inexplicably because we try to run off with any other names they use hur durr"
13:43 asciilifeform 'weirdos who eat garlic with every dinner because we keep trying to vampirize'em'
13:44 mircea_popescu it's exactly how it goes, too. and the funny thing is, the braindead vat dwellers actually go by that.
13:45 mircea_popescu moar win-win has scarcely ever been seen in the history of human stupidity.
13:47 mircea_popescu direct calque off the inept old woman "oh, tell all the young women not to go to the rape hut!!!" except , of course, the sort of girl that'd listen nobody wants there in the first place.
13:50 mircea_popescu (for the anthropocurious : there's three types of primitive civilisation known to either theory or practice. all three had a female hut, where the women did their woman shit. one of them had a male hut where they got drunk and dragged unwilling sexual partners by the hair. another had a male hut where they mostly sat idly about. the final one had no male hut at all, like the chimps, and thereby is very dubiosly a civilisation
13:50 mircea_popescu at all.)
13:54 mircea_popescu and yes, both gerousia and roman senate come off the first branch.
~ 15 minutes ~
14:09 mircea_popescu and in other "cheap whore under the opposite delusion fittingly depicted atop cheap couch on cheap plastic flooring", http://68.media.tumblr.com/475c27b3bf85f5ee0fe1d2b344939189/tumblr_onxl0wT7jK1w8x9u1o1_1280.jpg
~ 23 minutes ~
14:33 BingoBoingo At least knows to keep butthole off of dirty cheap plastic
14:33 BingoBoingo "functional clothing"
14:34 mircea_popescu and at happy teen camp, http://68.media.tumblr.com/b40607635b9d1d72440bd1ead172e7fa/tumblr_oqtcsfkq2R1robtkso1_500.gif
14:46 BingoBoingo "Rooney Mara’s character, grieving the death of her lover (Casey Affleck), returns home to find a pie left in her kitchen by a sympathetic friend or neighbor. As the bedsheet-clad ghost of her beloved looks on, Mara’s character, known only as M, unwraps the pie, sinks to the kitchen floor, and devours almost the entire thing in a five-minute, uninterrupted sequence before suddenly dashing to a nearby bathroom to throw up." << Films W
14:46 BingoBoingo aPo reviews for "our democracy", pussygrab 2020!
14:47 mircea_popescu hey, gotta speak to your audience.
14:49 BingoBoingo Other critics on said "cultural milestone": "Rooney attacks that pie like a cake person, engineering such unusual fork scoops (she stabs the pie at least four times before each bite) that I started to wonder whether the actress had even ever seen a pie before. We all do weird things when dealing with grief, but I was tickled by the fact that Mara’s bizarre pie-eating method still managed to leave the crust mostly intact."
14:51 BingoBoingo Our democracy however does not care to speak at all about parallels between protagonist of film who is a "bedsheet ghost" and Klan uniform which is also "bedsheet ghost"
14:51 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/america-and-intellectual-relevance/#selection-276.0-276.1
14:54 * BingoBoingo unsure that this isn't new levels of irtellectuan int-L-evance
15:04 mircea_popescu meanwhile at python club, http://68.media.tumblr.com/09efcf8b8c0fb3eb22584f95b91c178c/tumblr_op6zh9mWjs1vlase7o1_1280.jpg
15:15 asciilifeform in other noose, ACHTUNG PANZERS, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-29#1676331 nao 1.99s.
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15:15 a111 Logged on 2017-06-29 19:57 asciilifeform: in other noose ! nao we have comba's algo multiplier as basecase in karatsuba (currently threshold 8 words) , and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-21#1673165 becomes now 7.5sec
15:15 mircea_popescu o hey
15:15 asciilifeform this with 0 asm
15:15 asciilifeform and 0 parallelism
15:15 mircea_popescu nice
15:16 mircea_popescu this is 2sec per exp mult is it ?
15:16 asciilifeform correct.
15:16 asciilifeform 8192bits in particular.
15:16 mircea_popescu what's a 4kb keygen, gotta look for the primes, say a few hundred emults ?
15:17 asciilifeform depends whether you get lucky, lol
15:17 mircea_popescu yes, but i mean as the middle of distribution
15:18 * asciilifeform goes to the torture room answer this q empirically
15:18 asciilifeform *to
15:18 mircea_popescu kk
15:18 mircea_popescu it's conceivable 2s is actually good enough (tm)
15:33 asciilifeform sooo a 4096b rsa key takes about a dozen modexp's, on avg, on gpg 1.4.10
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15:33 mircea_popescu splendid.
15:33 asciilifeform a 8192b key, not yet known, because gotta patch it to even allow one
15:33 mod6 <+asciilifeform> and 0 parallelism << cool!
15:33 mircea_popescu i don't want 8kb keys
15:36 asciilifeform i'm writing a proggy meant to be wholly devoid of 640isenoughforeverybody-isms
15:36 mircea_popescu this is sane in any other case but key size.
15:36 mircea_popescu do teh math, if 8kb rsa key is preferable to 4kb rsa key, there's fundamental problems with rsa that make it useless anyway.
15:37 mircea_popescu and this nonsense of offering faux meaningless choice a la kochpgp is unwelcome and shouldn't be perpetuated. keys are 4kb and forget about it.
15:37 mircea_popescu and not even 4096 bits, there's a whole speccing discussion re this in teh logs
15:37 asciilifeform i ain't putting idiot magic numbers in. anywhere.
15:37 asciilifeform not happening.
15:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well there is that. nor should you. butwhat happens to 8kb keys is of ~0 interest nevertheless.
15:38 asciilifeform at any rate a p proggy starts with the register bitness
15:38 asciilifeform aite
15:38 asciilifeform incidentally, mircea_popescu's argument could just as readily be made re 4096 vs 2048 etc
15:38 asciilifeform each theoretically 'needs multiple planets' to break via traditional methods
15:39 mircea_popescu not so. why i said do the math : cracking 4kb key the hard way exceeds the universe. this is a categorical argument, substantially different from "i could compute 2 bit key by enumeration on napkin"
15:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no. one needs multiple planets, the other exceeds matter.
15:40 asciilifeform i can think of other considerations, as in the thread with the exponents
15:41 mircea_popescu where the fuck is that tmsr-standard-rsa-key discussion
15:41 asciilifeform on mircea_popescu's www iirc
15:42 mircea_popescu o it was ? i was murdering the logsearch
15:43 asciilifeform lol kochgpg ends up computing garbage if the 4096 cap is removed
15:43 mircea_popescu guaranteed bug you found.
15:43 asciilifeform betcha nobody ever tested its bignumtron with longer ints..
15:43 asciilifeform 'doctor, it hurts...'
15:43 mircea_popescu ie, koch bignum dun actulaly work.
15:43 asciilifeform fwiw mine -- worx
15:43 asciilifeform kB, mB, dunmatter.
15:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-03#1513696
15:44 a111 Logged on 2016-08-03 04:34 mircea_popescu: actually to formalize that : a 4096 bits key means a p that is 257 to 259 bytes long ; and a q that is 258 to 260 bytes long. end of fucking story.
15:44 asciilifeform aactually bug in my gpg torturetron, so :
15:45 mircea_popescu ^ very specific what a key is. not "interchangeable p and q"
15:45 * asciilifeform reruns the test
15:46 mircea_popescu (yes this yields keys slightly longer than 4kb. good.)
15:48 asciilifeform ok actual answer is about 100.
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15:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what i had also.
15:48 asciilifeform ( modexps per 4096 mod )
15:48 mircea_popescu it is entirely acceptable for proper keygen to take up to a few hours. 200 seconds is actually exceedingly fast.
15:48 asciilifeform will be moar if greater millerrabin margin is used , also
15:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's another thing i would like : a graph of the relation of the m-r failure rate to the a) entropy quality and b) margin.
15:49 mircea_popescu ie, is the relative impact cuadratic or subquadratic ?
15:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this'd be an interesting adjunct to the dh tests even.
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15:50 mircea_popescu which incidentally brings us to a very workable and very useful tmsr definition of entropy quality : take a FG string. flip a number of consecutive bits to 1. the result is your entropy quality, such as 100/1mb if you flipped 100 bits.
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15:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes.
15:51 mircea_popescu could also be derived mathematically, but so far've not managed to.
15:54 shinohai https://github.com/btc1/bitcoin/issues/65 <<< This Summer, even the testnet forks.
15:55 asciilifeform 'mathematics of computation' vol. 61, no. 203, july 1993, pp. 177-194 ( https://www.math.dartmouth.edu//~carlp/PDF/paper88.pdf << yes it's a scan, ain't got another ) appears to give the desired bounds for miller-rabin.
15:55 mircea_popescu oh ?
15:55 mircea_popescu now i gotta read a pdf
15:56 * asciilifeform keeps dedicated iron around for the purpose
15:56 mod6 how come they don't publish these things in ascii like normal people?
15:56 mircea_popescu possibly maffds
15:56 asciilifeform mod6: if ~you~ type it up, it'll be ascii...
15:56 mod6 ah right. still sux tho.
15:56 mod6 asciilifeform: lol indeed.
15:57 * shinohai curled it and piped through pdf2text, seems readable ....
15:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for completeness, exp with 4096 operands takes ~0.3s. per. on current ffa.
15:58 mircea_popescu not terrible even
15:58 asciilifeform *4096b
16:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i had actually read this text, though pretty sure not in this paper. but i recall the 100,10 bounds etc
16:01 mircea_popescu this is still less than my graph.
16:02 mircea_popescu they have the p k, 1 < 4 ** (2 - sqrt(k))* k**2 , which is useful, but i also want the p k, m
16:02 asciilifeform prolly hadamard's thing re prime distribution is the closest we're likely to get to an exact answer
16:03 mircea_popescu i would very much like an exact bound, rather than an exact solution
16:03 asciilifeform which is frustrating because you can't resort to 'empirical test' here , because circular, there EXISTS NO 'gold rng'
16:03 asciilifeform hey wouldn'tit be spiffy if we had an exact answer re prime distribution, lol
16:04 mircea_popescu what do you mean there exists no gold rng ?
16:04 asciilifeform recall the dh thread
16:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform by my lights, exact answer re prime distribution prerequisite to trivial factorization of rsa.
16:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, i recall.
16:04 asciilifeform there is no 'gold standard' to which i could compare fg, etc
16:05 mircea_popescu there is no gold standard to which you could compare the gold standard ?
16:05 asciilifeform aha!11lolyes
16:05 mircea_popescu does this make you suffer greatly ?
16:05 asciilifeform not usually.
16:05 asciilifeform but sometimes it is inconvenient.
16:05 mircea_popescu aite, me either.
16:11 asciilifeform now for another little mindfuck,
16:12 asciilifeform same figure sans karatsuba : 3.7s.
16:13 asciilifeform ( alert reader will ask, what did i change ? answer : 1) comba 2) gcc -O2 (this keeps all bounds checks and dun do anything aggressive, just peepholes) )
16:15 mircea_popescu meanwhile in tit-hello, http://68.media.tumblr.com/5bbc9e2c1caaf38357bb956d156600f6/tumblr_oimi8cQ5Xq1uwwy5ko1_1280.jpg
16:17 mod6 asciilifeform: huh
16:17 asciilifeform mod6: i was running with -g -O0 previously, lol
16:18 mod6 oh -g
16:18 asciilifeform aha, it also
16:18 mod6 im retarded, what is 'comba' ?
16:18 asciilifeform !#s comba
16:18 a111 6 results for "comba", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=comba
16:19 mod6 cheers
16:19 mod6 oohh right. thx
16:20 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681267 << cool
16:20 a111 Logged on 2017-07-10 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd be an interesting adjunct to the dh tests even.
16:21 mircea_popescu it's generally a pity people don't use numerical methods more.
16:21 mircea_popescu got all this iron, let's do dumbass bayesianisms on it, instead of you know, what people correctly did up to the 90s or so.
~ 26 minutes ~
16:47 asciilifeform mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/RxYkz/?raw=true
16:48 asciilifeform btw, nobody's exempt from having to eventually grasp how ^ worx
16:48 asciilifeform so may as well get head start.
16:49 asciilifeform incidentally, (imaginary) prize to the first d00d who understands why this had to be rewritten with the loops indexing from 0 .. L-1, rather than, e.g., for i in X'Range ... as formerly
16:52 asciilifeform rot13 spoiler: Nqn neenl fyvprf xrrc gur 'Svefg naq 'Ynfg bs jurerire va gur cnerag gurl pnzr sebz! sbe fbzr ernfba guvf vf abg zragvbarq naljurer ohg va gur fgnaqneq. Xnengfhon bs pbhefr raqf hc vaibxvat gur onfrpnfr zhygvcyvre jvgu fyvprf gung qba'g ortva jvgu mreb, naq gb qrfgvangvba neenl gung yvxrjvfr qbrfa'g. Fb jr tbggn abeznyvmr.
~ 31 minutes ~
17:23 mod6 asciilifeform: thx, will read
17:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this sounds like the ugliest of hacks.
17:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it ain't tho.
17:41 mircea_popescu why does ada do that, anyway ?
17:41 asciilifeform because not doing it would lead to increased ugly.
17:41 asciilifeform though i also found it at first difficult to understand why.
17:41 mircea_popescu i realyl don't like this "and now we magic-variable the numbers". it's one step up from magic constant
17:42 asciilifeform slices are not arrays in their own right, they are offsets into another array
17:42 mircea_popescu ok...
17:42 asciilifeform and ergo retain the original's indexing.
17:42 asciilifeform so you can get it back from a slice
17:42 mircea_popescu wouldn't it actually be proper to copy the slice into its own array ?
17:43 asciilifeform no!!!!
17:43 asciilifeform that ain't called a sloce
17:43 asciilifeform *slice
17:43 asciilifeform that's a copy, we do this also sometimes.
17:43 mircea_popescu wouldn't it be actually proper to copy the slice into its own array and to maintain a pairing of slices and new arrays ; rather trhan do index magics on the mult code ?
17:44 asciilifeform nope. blows the cache.
17:44 asciilifeform and bloats the algo.
17:44 asciilifeform worst of all worlds.
17:44 mircea_popescu i didn't say practical, i was just going with proper
17:45 asciilifeform seekrit : in the 'most fascist' restriction mode, ada... copies slices
17:45 mircea_popescu aha
17:45 asciilifeform ( behind the curtain )
17:45 mod6 ah.
17:46 asciilifeform (no_implicit_loops pragma iirc)
17:46 mod6 i've read, so far seems ok -- i've got to wrap my mind around the second ("high loop") as I did before.
17:47 mod6 gotta take it the whiteboard a bit later perhaps.
17:48 asciilifeform upstack, array slices ( which commonlisp also has ) are important to being rid of having to use c-style pointers
17:48 asciilifeform in much the same way as 'in' parameters (in ada procedures)
17:48 mircea_popescu i am sitting here wondering if this is "getting rid" as in, rid or rid as in, hid.
17:48 asciilifeform rid.
17:49 asciilifeform in that they are replaced with a far more constrained item
17:49 asciilifeform about which you can prove particulars.
17:49 mircea_popescu what particular can i prove re the relation between an array slice and the index fixer variable ?
17:50 mircea_popescu ~same as the relation between pointer and its content, "better hope programmer didn't fuck up ; and also it usually blows up if he did so there's that"
17:50 asciilifeform wrong
17:50 asciilifeform they get checked against the bounds
17:50 asciilifeform every. time.
17:50 mircea_popescu ah so no overflow
17:50 asciilifeform aha.
17:51 mircea_popescu but can i overflow THE SLICE ?
17:51 asciilifeform nope.
17:51 mircea_popescu wedll that's something.
17:51 asciilifeform slice has own bounds, the correct ones.
17:51 mircea_popescu i see.
17:51 asciilifeform ada is a thing for a reason, i found. hence this entire thread.
17:52 mod6 so recently, i've done some multi-d array programming in ada..
17:52 asciilifeform every time, to date, when i bashed head against wall and went 'WAI DOES IT DOOO THAT!1!!1' i ended up repenting
17:52 asciilifeform 'oooh hey turns out, Right Thing'
17:52 mircea_popescu that's encouraging...
17:53 asciilifeform quite possibly i'dve given up long ago if not for this repeated experience
17:53 mod6 all i can say thus far is; stuff seems to be strict. my code may compile, but indeed blows up at runtime.
17:54 asciilifeform every single time it was 'guess wat, this is How It Works in the adult hut. for reasons that Make Sense'...
17:54 asciilifeform mod6: note that 'blow up' still dun mean 'segfault'
17:54 mod6 index out of bounds.
17:54 mircea_popescu he means it catches it itself
17:55 mod6 or whatever it was. no did not seem to be a segfault.
17:55 mod6 im just dumb. it seemed to be smarter than i am.
17:55 mod6 at least, for nw.
17:55 asciilifeform mod6: you won't physically ever see a segfault in ada proggy built with default 'fascism' level
17:55 asciilifeform most you'll get is a stop.
17:56 mod6 that's what would be ideal
17:56 mod6 :]
17:56 asciilifeform in some critical applications (airplane, rsatron) this is still unacceptable and hence spark
17:56 mod6 now if i could just my head out of my ass....
17:56 asciilifeform ( and -- fits-in-head !! )
17:56 mod6 head-fits-in-ass
17:57 asciilifeform lol
17:57 trinque !~bash 5
17:57 jhvh1 Last 5 lines bashed and pending publication
17:57 mod6 heheh, ok. will dig into ur function a bit more here in a little bit.
17:57 asciilifeform i've been reading, btw, the output
17:57 asciilifeform of gnat, i mean
17:57 asciilifeform the asm
17:58 mod6 is it doing ~what is expected?
17:58 asciilifeform on -O2 it's surprisingly notbad
17:58 asciilifeform mod6: aha. i wanted to see how the bounds checks are done, and whether gcc4.9 takes any liberties with'em
17:59 mod6 good work.
17:59 asciilifeform seems like it works - almost astonishingly - as printed on the box...
17:59 asciilifeform ftr asciilifeform doing this chore does not excuse other folx from same
18:00 asciilifeform my gnat is mine, but what's in yours - only beelzebub knows
18:01 asciilifeform relatedly, after adatronic 'p' is fully nailed down and flying, i'ma bake one in x64 asm.
18:01 asciilifeform in the interest of bootstrapology.
18:01 mircea_popescu not even a bad idea
18:02 asciilifeform ( ffa in asm is - somewhat surprisingly - easier than ada or even c )
18:03 asciilifeform phunphakt -- if you nail down, to a fixed bitness, the N-arity of the arithmetic, you can unroll all of the loops.
18:04 asciilifeform e.g. mircea_popescu's 4096
18:04 asciilifeform pretty lulzy, jmpless rsatron then
18:05 asciilifeform but iirc this came up in old thread.
18:05 mircea_popescu did
18:05 mircea_popescu part of the point
18:05 asciilifeform ( i dun know of any compelling practical reason to do this, outside of something like a hand-sewn gossipd packet filter in asm on bare iron, for max horsepower )
18:06 mircea_popescu unrolled loops means fixed time eh.
18:07 asciilifeform constant-arity loops - equally fixed
18:07 asciilifeform but unrolled is moar cacheable.
18:07 mircea_popescu but unrolled loops you can bake in your alfmachine we were discussing last week
18:07 asciilifeform tru!
18:08 mircea_popescu moreover, if you do fixed as described, you CAN so unroll, if you do or if you don't.
18:08 mircea_popescu otherwise, you CAN NOT.
18:08 asciilifeform in my mind's eye thing would be a 32kBit-arity alu...lol
18:09 mircea_popescu 4kbit first
18:09 asciilifeform same principle
18:09 mircea_popescu yes, but cheaper by a factor
18:09 asciilifeform and if made correctly they oughta plug in for longer arity.
18:09 asciilifeform the way folx used to stitch shifters together.
18:09 mircea_popescu well yes, i imagined the 4kb one also composite.
18:11 asciilifeform upstack, ffa wants to double as a 'how to rsa' 'b00k' , i.e. at every point tradeoff was made for clarity rather than speed.
18:11 asciilifeform we can always get the speed BACK later
18:11 asciilifeform but try and get back lost clarity!!
18:12 mircea_popescu just as should be. first spec code then optimized code
18:12 asciilifeform p ain't a 'code is the spec' crock-o-shit tho. up asciilifeform's sleeve, is an actual spec
18:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679099
18:13 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 15:06 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679054 << this is a fine approach. "here's the per spec impl, here's the optimized impl. you can verify they agree wrt results ; and you can trivially verify the former is spec-accurate."
18:14 asciilifeform i don't expect to see many reimplementations, sadly, however, because one of the items of said spec is 'the following ops are in constant spacetime...'
18:14 mircea_popescu which suggests the very important point : bitewise equality over the result space is not sufficient proof of program equivalence.
18:15 asciilifeform probably an ada build and a handrolled asm, per cpu make, is best that can be had.
18:15 mircea_popescu aka "you can not fix a computer by simply rebooting it without any idea what's going on" moonism
18:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aka 'path dependent'
18:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, unrelatedly and idly : an optorsatron might also be built if unrolled.
18:16 asciilifeform aha
18:16 asciilifeform or even... mechanical
18:17 mircea_popescu the two aren't that distinct in this application
18:17 asciilifeform ( esp. if you use muller's delay-insensitive logic )
18:17 mircea_popescu but it'd make fine ART, to go back to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-07#1680182
18:17 a111 Logged on 2017-07-07 18:01 mircea_popescu: if they did that sort of shit, i could almost respect artists.
18:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha
18:18 mircea_popescu it should not take the average artist a year of labour to produce the optorsatron out of cheap lasers and stuff ~free in any collegiate lab, once he's stolen the unrolling and idea from log.
18:18 asciilifeform part of what asciilifeform was even doing re 'p' is answering the q of 'what is the minimal practical rsatron'
18:19 asciilifeform ( lessay you had to put one in a very... tight space. e.g. 'uci' payload... )
18:20 asciilifeform the tightest, in practice, space of all, however, is.. the head
18:20 asciilifeform if you want ( and we do ) an ABSOLUTE, iron grasp.
18:22 * asciilifeform bbl, meat
~ 45 minutes ~
19:07 jurov re: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1681019 i tried and liked https://github.com/conspack/cl-conspack
↖
19:07 a111 Logged on 2017-07-09 16:29 phf: note that common lisp's sexps are not an ideal data exchange format
19:08 mircea_popescu !!up EIC
19:08 deedbot EIC voiced for 30 minutes.
19:08 mircea_popescu EIC did you figure out how to reg a key ?
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
20:38 mircea_popescu and in other "i can't believe it's not butt-er", https://68.media.tumblr.com/f7dcd66710edeb9ffa4565cd0cbf3077/tumblr_omp9juCdzX1vczyw6o2_1280.jpg
20:39 shinohai Cornhole datwith this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEahtE1W0AEnWxa.jpg
20:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681458 << massive
20:44 a111 Logged on 2017-07-10 23:07 jurov: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1681019 i tried and liked https://github.com/conspack/cl-conspack
20:44 asciilifeform ( and -- damningly -- i can't think of why. )
~ 30 minutes ~
21:14 mod6 evenin'
21:16 * mod6 sprays down the whiteboard
21:23 mod6 !#s toom
21:23 a111 11 results for "toom", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=toom
21:26 asciilifeform mod6: toom-cook ?
21:26 asciilifeform generalization of karatsuba, but pretty useless for fitsinhead rsatron imho
21:27 asciilifeform ( only begins to +ev a considerable way above 8192b )
21:28 mod6 yeah, just wanted to remember/remind myself of why we didn't use that, and looked at karatsuba instead, but then saw this again: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-21#1659981
21:28 a111 Logged on 2017-05-21 16:47 asciilifeform: because ALL ops take same time, so karatsuma, toom-cook, etc. cannot work because they fundamentally rely on breaking large x*y into a number of smaller a1*b1, a2*b2, ...
21:28 asciilifeform same reason i didn't implement fft
21:28 mod6 ah, and there was a time when L was not part of the plan
21:29 asciilifeform note that our L does not depend on the results of the arithmetic at any point
21:29 mod6 mircea_popescu: my eyyyes
21:30 mod6 asciilifeform: indeed, was just re-reading. makes sense.
~ 15 minutes ~
21:45 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2FAC60661995A00418D5429654E10DD273A94CF808ACA4449782DB8DB28ECE27 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...2909 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.13.39.162 (ssh-rsa key from 83.13.39.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fbn162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
21:45 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2FAC60661995A00418D5429654E10DD273A94CF808ACA4449782DB8DB28ECE27 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1447...7557 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.13.39.162 (ssh-rsa key from 83.13.39.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fbn162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
21:50 mod6 f, my ffa is super old
21:51 mod6 nevermind found one
~ 23 minutes ~
22:14 mod6 asciilifeform: you mind throwing me your W_Add_D, i don't seem to have one.
22:17 asciilifeform mod6: see in https://archive.is/DGDu1
22:22 mod6 thx
~ 22 minutes ~
22:44 mod6 are 'Lo : Word; \n Hi : Word;' initialized to zero on the first pass through Col(...) by default?
22:47 asciilifeform mod6: they dun need initializing, they are the low and high words of word*word mul
22:47 asciilifeform ( also posted earlier, at some point )
22:48 asciilifeform ( they get set afresh each time it muls )
22:51 mod6 ok, my bad, i see those are the output words for W_Mul, XY_LW and XY_HI.
22:51 mod6 (im going through by hand here...)
22:55 mod6 lol, im gonna need a bigger board.
~ 23 minutes ~
23:19 mircea_popescu mod6 makes a by hand unrolling because why not :D
23:20 mircea_popescu meanwhile in byw news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/8abe3546f7076a75f572488328d5f661/tumblr_oevzazQFPS1rjwj6to1_1280.jpg
23:25 mod6 lol, im probably just dim, but i think it's the only way im gonna understand things thing through and through
23:25 mircea_popescu sounds legit actually.
~ 25 minutes ~
23:50 mod6 holy moly
23:51 mod6 my gurl is like X_X
23:51 mircea_popescu hm ?
23:51 mod6 workin through this on the board. so!
23:52 mod6 i did solve a few of my own questions so far on it.
23:52 mod6 and gleaned a few things I didn't notice earlier.
23:52 mod6 i haven't gone all the way through the W_Mul yet, but just unrolling it as said.
23:53 mod6 for i in L .. 2*L - 2 loop
23:53 mod6 Col(i, i - L + 1, L - 1);
23:53 mod6 this was throwing me off earlier today ^
23:53 mod6 but now, it's starting to make sense.
23:59 mod6 this is neat
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