Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-06-07 | 2017-06-09 → ↓
00:00 mod6 freshwater fish gotta be cooked tho.
00:01 ben_vulpes flyover state problems
00:01 mircea_popescu ok this is the lulz of all time. so /me checks out the bavarian motors local website. it's https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bavarian-Motors-Costa-Rica-BMW/249753901736814
00:01 ben_vulpes i kid mod6 i kid
00:01 mircea_popescu buncha angry people from years ago.
00:01 mod6 heheh
00:01 mircea_popescu this website-for-business craze is totally paying off.
00:02 * ben_vulpes has lamb chops to grill, bbl
00:04 ben_vulpes !!up punto
00:04 deedbot punto voiced for 30 minutes.
00:09 trinque whaack: you can self-up.
00:09 trinque !!gettrust deedbot whaack
00:09 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
00:16 trinque !!up whaack
00:16 deedbot whaack voiced for 30 minutes.
00:18 trinque make sure ya snag your key then, before departing for good?
00:20 whaack of course :)
00:22 mircea_popescu btw @all, lemme know if you have complaints/comments re the whole b itcoin learning thing before it gets drywalled.
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00:22 mircea_popescu esp if there's any glaring holes / errors that i dun wanna discover you know, once the submissions get processed.
00:27 mircea_popescu ooo and in other news, turkish parliament approves turkish army depoloyment in qatar.
00:36 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> speaking of old hardware, /me just bought a bmw 320i from 2005. << Oh my, A German!
00:37 ben_vulpes i still gotta read through that, mircea_popescu
00:38 * ben_vulpes is woefully behind on homework
00:38 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo actually i don't think i ever bought a non-german car.
00:39 mircea_popescu "Strict and firm action will be taken against anyone who shows sympathy or any form of bias towards Qatar, or against anyone who objects to the position of the United Arab Emirates, whether it be through the means of social media, or any type of written, visual or verbal form," Gulf News quoted UAE Attorney-General Hamad Saif al-Shamsi as saying. << bwahahaha check out the us lap dogs.
00:39 mircea_popescu aspiring to be england over there.
00:40 BingoBoingo Ah, I would have expected a Unimog given the terrain description
00:42 BingoBoingo And Unimog can carry more girlies
00:42 mircea_popescu lol.
00:43 BingoBoingo And can be fitted with volvanic ash plow
00:44 mircea_popescu get it armored, should carry some pretty decent firepower
00:44 BingoBoingo Not really enough torque to wear armor or carry hamplanets
00:44 mircea_popescu o ya. it's a primo apc.
00:45 BingoBoingo hmmm
00:45 mircea_popescu fun fact : most unimogs have less hp than my bmw.
00:46 BingoBoingo Most unimogs have less hp than riding lawnmower
00:47 mircea_popescu 50 or so iirc
00:47 BingoBoingo Ah, so 2 riding lawnmowers
00:47 mircea_popescu though im pretty sure they race. dakar and whatnot.
00:49 BingoBoingo Oh there seems to be class for everything at dakar. Unimogs, bikes, rail trains, deckless lawnmowers
00:49 BingoBoingo !!up juantelez
00:49 deedbot juantelez voiced for 30 minutes.
00:50 BingoBoingo juantelez: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
~ 37 minutes ~
01:27 pete_dushenski speaking of dakar, the red bull team uses kamaz 4326 trucks! (with a mental 1000hp diesel engine). seen here in action : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcEuuakWPg
01:29 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu | ooo and in other news, turkish parliament approves turkish army depoloyment in qatar. << at least someone in fiat isn't afraid to get their hands dirty.
~ 7 hours 38 minutes ~
09:08 BingoBoingo !!up ModeratelyAttrac
09:08 deedbot ModeratelyAttrac voiced for 30 minutes.
09:09 shinohai Well if it isn't Shanti
09:15 BingoBoingo Oh?
09:17 shinohai !~later tell whaack I received tu grabacion and will send back suggestions later today.
09:17 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
09:20 * shinohai pops popcorn and prepares ice for drinks ahead of Comey hearing momentarily ....
~ 19 minutes ~
09:39 BingoBoingo Meh, his written statement makes him sound like a nervous aspie a la Elliot
09:40 BingoBoingo And testimony so centered on internal monologue is worthless, because how the fuck is the other person supposd to know?
09:42 shinohai That's what I want to see, his bumbling over the whole thing and butthurt.
09:53 shinohai Imma have to do a shitcoin roundup this week it appears: http://archive.is/PajQy
09:55 shinohai (Cheers to the fellow that thought storing 3 BTC and 55 LTC on Conbase was great idea)
10:01 BingoBoingo Maybe? Prolly best to instead do a seperate headline for each story
10:06 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
10:07 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2745.07, vol: 17597.98562296 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2647.933, vol: 6931.80305 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2717.9, vol: 27271.94278436 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2744.833984, vol: 17391.80060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2753.02, vol: 6572.58222827 | Volume-weighted last average: 2727.03864171
~ 32 minutes ~
10:39 mod6 mornin'
10:40 shinohai heya mod6
10:40 mod6 how goes the popcorn?
10:44 shinohai BingoBoingo was right, it's a snore. On to other things. >.>
10:47 asciilifeform in other noose, nobody on planet3 seems to know how to disable serialport flowcontrol on openbsd.
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10:47 asciilifeform broken os, made by broken people.
10:48 asciilifeform seems to play same ecological role as winblowz -- to make linux look appealing in comparison.
10:50 asciilifeform astonishing, how the militantly retarded can make what seems like simple problem -- to get raw bytes in/out of a comp -- into a near-impossibility
10:51 mod6 it is pretty depressing indeed
10:58 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667051 << the historic record of such surprises is more or less 100% 'can't get out' vs ~0 'can't get in'
10:58 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 03:42 ben_vulpes: heh, friends have been whining, "what if you can't come back!!!1" without ever once considering the corrolary "what if you can't get out?"
11:01 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667079 << i'd like to visit the parallel universe this was posted from. in mine, the sov folx happily moved to 'civilized west', where to enjoy driving cabs ( rather than, say, the valhalla depicted in the bootleg vhs tapes )
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11:01 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 03:56 mircea_popescu: you know ? dumbass soviets were like this, and then once the 80s were over and shitholistan moved to arab world, they were like that in the 90s.
11:01 phf americans have been trained on the whole iron curtain vs the free world narrative. so now any place that's politically disagreeable is seen as potentially behind iron curtain
11:03 asciilifeform 'bbbut i know a d00d who couldn't get out' 'did he go to north kr ?' 'yes...' 'was he a baptist missionary...' 'yes...' 'which is a jailable offense there..' 'DISGUSTING untermenschen!!!howdarethey'
11:03 asciilifeform ^ which made me wonder, how come the missionaries never go to riyadh
11:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667166 << #1 bullshit of 20something fuck-market-value females with a chance to get out was "wut if i never see $old-relative ever again!!1".
11:09 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 15:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667079 << i'd like to visit the parallel universe this was posted from. in mine, the sov folx happily moved to 'civilized west', where to enjoy driving cabs ( rather than, say, the valhalla depicted in the bootleg vhs tapes )
11:09 mircea_popescu and i dunno re planets, but on mine ~everyone with any market value had >1 opportunities to gtfo.
11:09 mircea_popescu the fact that elites failed to defect is a very sad testament on the structurally broken in the head nature of postmodern elites. something we know as jwz-ism today, but has preexisted jwz.
11:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i can't comment on ro emigres, but with su world there was a lulzy twist : 1st wave (1970s -- largely j000z!11) wrote home, 'i'ma full professor and it rocks, come on over', 2nd wave went, to discover that market -- glut, and hello cab
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11:10 phf to be fair i heard that one as "i didn't get out, because knew for a fact that $old-relative will get in trouble"
11:11 mircea_popescu phf the specific phrasing of protective female bullshit (PFB) is studied in a different discipline, but sure.
11:13 phf in a sense that fuck relatives, or in a sense that arrest of the escapee relatives was not a thing?
11:13 mircea_popescu in a sense that "mutual responsibility" is never a genuine concern, but out and out fraternizing with the enemy.
11:14 asciilifeform nobody arrested relatives, post-stalin, but various folx were sacked from sugary professorships etc.
11:15 mircea_popescu not "fuck relatives", though that's what dumb female would pretend was said ; not "this doesn't happen", though that's what castrated "allies" might pretend was said. simply "the responsibility for living in jail attaches to each individual liver individually. old relative should have fucking known better than to be there, and shouldn't expect other-people to put out his clothes just because he likes sitting down on the going
11:15 mircea_popescu stove."
11:15 mircea_popescu the whole "expectation" thread linked recently is amusingly on point.
11:16 asciilifeform recall the treblinka thread ?
11:16 asciilifeform !#s treblinka
11:16 a111 19 results for "treblinka", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=treblinka
11:17 phf asciilifeform: that's not true, re no arrests, and there's a lot of creative variations on "sacked from sugary professorships"
11:17 asciilifeform phf: who, and when, where, demonstrably arrested solely because relative went
11:17 mircea_popescu anyway, that's the canonical borderline sleeve transactional outpour, "i cant/couldnt" (age dependent) "study/work/move/whatever because son/husband/father/baby jesus on stick needed me not to".
11:18 mircea_popescu it's never genuine.
11:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you two are perhaps confusing arrests "would you please come with us" -> dumbass questioning insistently repeated with jailings "you will sit in this room for 12 years".
11:18 mircea_popescu these are not the same.
11:18 asciilifeform ^
11:20 mircea_popescu re later, nobody fucking bothered to pay room and board for some idle schmuck that was too dumb to leave himself in the first place. re former, of fucking course they kept pretending to importance for a day or two, it's what statal socialism is built out of : the organised pretense to importance.
11:22 phf asciilifeform: family conversations in the 90s, and this is the case of "elites" leaving. grandfather at some point was under investigation, because someone in his department defected, but immediate colleagues sacked, wife arrested and imprisoned. this is oboronka though
11:23 asciilifeform i'm yet to read a neutral (i.e. from original documents) account of such a thing -- in modern (1970s+) period
11:23 asciilifeform but plenty of friend-of-a-friend-says-that-his-great-uncle-... etc.
11:24 phf right.
11:25 mircea_popescu now portion of this is also defensive, and should be separated. some dudes leaving left with actual goods. some might have and the soviet accountancy was slightly worse than us, they couldn't quite figure it exactly.
11:25 asciilifeform which puts it into ufology.
11:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: per the su pov, the stuff inside the head of, e.g., serious physicist, is 'actual goods'
11:26 mircea_popescu whereas under discussion here wasn't "guy who worked for army/internal ministry/etc 30 years", but very specifically, young-female-whose-preponderence-of-value-comes-from-specific-fat-distribution-on-body.
11:26 asciilifeform i.e. was put there at great expense of orc exchequer
11:26 asciilifeform and it expected a return
11:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not just su, fwis.
11:26 phf mircea_popescu: i thought "elites" were under the discussion, but yeah, we went in the direction of females
11:26 mircea_popescu he DID get free education yes ? usg still wants you to pay college debt even if you leave.
11:27 mircea_popescu phf the point you're not seeing because it's so unexpected and i didn't make it specifically was that the definition of elite scales with society. elite is "who has objective value". in late soviet, much like in late usg reich, the strippers were the elite
11:27 phf fwiw, the reason it's friend of a friend, is because su was good at compartmentalization. my grandparents didn't talk about ~anything~ at all at home (and still warned my mom to never talk about anything she hears at home) until after the collapse
11:27 mircea_popescu simply because NOBODY ELSE had any value.
11:28 mircea_popescu this is the sad result of following dumbass ideology (ie, socialism) past its halfway point -- you become -value, notwithstanding in saner context you'd have been +value and thereby some kind of elite.
11:28 mircea_popescu but usistani "best anthropologist of his generation" is no kind of elite. only elite there is kardashian, because ass.
11:29 phf well, but these people aren't escaping into tmsr/pashtun. are we judging elite from our perspective, or what their respective target countries considered elite?
11:29 asciilifeform if you produce 25mil of somebody per yr, that this is definitionally not any sort of elite. hence 0 attempt to seriously skin 'college grads' for their debt ( good fraction of which already condemned to life term of 'starbucks barista' )
11:30 phf people who ~escaped~ from oboronka, back when it still meant something in the early 80s, say, were granted a perceived elite status in u.s. i don't know anyone with that connection who's sweeping floors at mcgrooders, but plently of "NII engineers"
11:30 mircea_popescu phf we are judging elite on the strength of action rather than ideology. properly-fat-female is elite because can fuck. properly-soviet-bureaucrat is not elite because can not do jack shit.
11:31 asciilifeform the 'college' racket is no sort of 'investment in elite' , in usgdom, rather it is a mechanism for assigning ~everyone a debt of $maxint de jure so that their moneys can be harvested at will later, should they happen to come across any
11:32 asciilifeform phf: belenko, perhaps ultimate stereotypical escapee ( stole no less than a mig-25 ! ) iirc was last seen selling used cars.
11:33 phf i don't know any properly soviet bureaucrats who are not also licking ass the same way they were doing it in soviet union, for peanuts. people that i'm talking about escaped, or left in the early 90s, and didn't have any problems going from one closed research institute soviet side to an equivalent u.s. side.
11:33 mircea_popescu what target countries value ideologically is uninteresting. but what they value on the sane basis of valuation, can't be ignored. so if you mix "the french really liked ukr chicks" in there we'll have to distinguish what does "the french" mean, ie, what portion they like because them bitches can suck a golf ball through a garden hose and what portion because they read in paris match that they should.
11:33 asciilifeform gorby sells pizza.
11:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so will obama.
11:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the functioning of soviet economy was not in any sense different. they'd just steal inventions outright, w/e.
11:35 asciilifeform usg offered 'untermenschen' all kinds of lures, while they had (what was perceived as) secrets to trade -- honourary colonelships, professorships, etc.
11:35 asciilifeform when milked dry -- hello cab.
11:36 mircea_popescu it was ~same as short fat dude in 2nd hs year will pay strippers to come hang out with him in the cafeteria.
11:36 mircea_popescu twas supposed to impress the sheiks, 99% of all it was good for. as you can see the problem remains even today, in exactly same terms.
11:38 phf me and asciilifeform have respective selection biases. i don't know any russian professor cab drivers, but plenty of NIH department heads, doing their half science half politikin on the new territory. presumably there's also a world of russian escapees who are driving cabs, that i'm just not connected to
11:39 asciilifeform asciilifeform met both
11:39 mircea_popescu i also met both.
11:39 asciilifeform and considerably moar of 'formerly nii, physics, now cab' than of 'straight from dept chair to dept chair'
11:40 mircea_popescu this is an iffier point. i didn't meet that many altogether. moreover, i didn't discount the "friend of a friend" stories out of hand.
11:41 asciilifeform fact is, finite number of 'elite' slots for runaway orcs to fill
11:41 mircea_popescu this is never true.
11:41 asciilifeform local elite has things mostly divvied up, as anywhere.
11:41 mircea_popescu there's an infinite number of elite slots.
11:41 mircea_popescu what there isn't, are any slots for the aspie 14% to wannabe-elite on the basis of other people's processes, goods and etc.
11:41 asciilifeform for mongol horde - sure. for full professorships -- strictly finite.
11:42 phf i think that's kind of "fact" that all cab drivers like to talk about
11:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's no elite that attaches to "the attaining of full professorship". this is the problem here, the statal parasitizing of the notion of elite.
11:42 mircea_popescu no one is elite because god/pope/king/whoever said so/put his hands on him/invested with phallus-staff and cunt-ring.
11:42 asciilifeform thread was largely about '70s-80s emigres, or so i thought
11:43 mircea_popescu it's a purely internal thing.
11:43 asciilifeform who were 'professorship' types rather than 'i'ma corner the dope market' variety
11:43 mircea_popescu there is no such "type".
11:43 mircea_popescu whole fucking 1990s fiction is ALL ABOUT this, "holy shit mom, i thought i was a type, turns out reality's untyped!"
11:43 phf obviously "i was a surgeon back in my country!1" doesn't ever translate, but ~surgeons~ will easily find their place amongst other countries surgeons
11:43 mircea_popescu quite so.
11:44 asciilifeform funnily enough, worst possible example
11:44 asciilifeform usa has world's most insular medical mafia
11:44 mircea_popescu and underutilized elite "i'm a nigger stomper, but '''we just don't do that in my country'''"will find their actual useful levbel.
11:44 asciilifeform medieval-style guild system, ~0 foreign diplomas count for shit
11:44 phf no it's not, it exactly demonstrates my point!
11:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually us has the largest black medical services market of any place with pretense of civilisation i ever saw. and ALWAYUS DID
11:45 asciilifeform it is difficult to conceive of a dumber choice of place to move to, for orc surgeon, than usa
11:45 mircea_popescu if it's not abortions it's siliconoplasty, sex surgery, you name it.
11:46 mircea_popescu only place where someone will pay good money to you know, have somebody operate on him in the back of a truck.
11:46 phf well, that's true, but that goes for moving to u.s. in general :p
11:46 mircea_popescu phf depends though. reagan usa was very much unlike clinton+ usa.
11:46 mircea_popescu kinda the whole point of "maga".
11:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it isn't obvious, at least to asciilifeform , that having worked as a legit surgeon for 30yrs, say, in orcland, is a serious advantage to starting illustrious butt-silicone-injections-in-back-of-truck career in oakland
11:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform sure, it's not clear. being elite is the point. people generallty don't want to find out iuf they are or they aren't, and it slows down with age.
11:47 asciilifeform most folx ain't, and know they ain't
11:48 mircea_popescu well then, so they'll be sitting in whatever pen and fuck them, they get no name and no voice.
11:48 mircea_popescu life's too short to be talking to the rocks.
11:48 asciilifeform and when emigrating, follow same logic as ants when 'emigrating' to my kitchen : 'hey, PILES OF SUGAR!!!' rather than 'i'd like to be Tested!'
11:48 mircea_popescu aha.
11:48 asciilifeform show me the 60y.o. who 'test me!1111'
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11:48 mircea_popescu i've had the priviledge.
11:49 mircea_popescu it's an awesome thing to behold, i grant ye.
11:52 asciilifeform asciilifeform had the privilege of meeting various folx who moved in '70s-80s -- sounded as if entirely different planet
11:52 mircea_popescu i'd say that's fair, 70s us vs 2010s us might as well be different planets.
11:53 asciilifeform one obvious observation is that the caliber of the 1st wave folx was inevitably higher
11:53 mircea_popescu aha
11:53 asciilifeform ( tended to be people with 'something to trade', contents of their heads )
11:53 mircea_popescu this is generally how parties work.
11:54 mircea_popescu first the chicks with great tits show up, and make a party out of a desert. then the chicks with ugly tits hear about the nice tit hangout and go there to try and sprinkle some nice on their sad bosoms.
11:54 asciilifeform and - as always - after these come the 'free market!111 i'm sure to find a place, and Profit!111'
11:54 asciilifeform followed by -- 'hey, SUGAR!!11'
11:54 mircea_popescu as that dude selling out in 1929 pointed out -- there are people you really do not wish to commune with. by the time shoeblacks are buying stocks, stocks are for shoeblacks.
11:55 mircea_popescu usg is a major selector for shit by now, btw. ~only female here who was keen on immigrating (got some "criminology" degree from, you guessed it, umd) was ~0 market value call-center-for-lyf operator.
11:56 asciilifeform #1 major at umd !11 ( i shit thee not )
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11:56 mircea_popescu i believe it, if nothing else than because i saw this dorkette.
11:56 asciilifeform it absorbs 'i CANT DECIDE WAT DO!11' chix
11:57 mircea_popescu except it's not "i can't decide what to do", it's "i've decided that being a fluffer's handmaiden is below my level. i'm not willing to kill myself over this apparent failure of the world to contain anything fit for me, but i'll shamble about aimlessly for a while maybe something sticks"
11:57 mircea_popescu ie, bulk of female strat.
11:57 asciilifeform they then declare 'pre-law' or 'pre-med' (these are not majors, but specific 'flavour mixins' of courses that qualify them to attempt to get into med or law )
11:58 asciilifeform the typical outcome is a) marriage b) starbucks
11:58 mircea_popescu the incomprehensible part is where the parents don't chain them naked to posts and whip them until they escape or die.
11:58 asciilifeform ( 'starbucks', for foreign n00bz, is a kind of mcdonalds that sells coffee and scones )
11:58 mircea_popescu nono, it WRITES YOUR NAME ON THE CUP
11:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you'd be amazed at what gets written on the cup.
11:59 asciilifeform (kollege graduates!111)
11:59 mircea_popescu culture shock of all time, when mp ran into barrista, pointed out to her that he didn't give a shit about what her supposded name is either, when they started the whole nametag crap in the 70s.
12:00 mircea_popescu dork wasn't perceiving itself as part of a cheapo corporate culture ; on THE CONTRARY!!!11
12:01 asciilifeform serving coffee, in modern-day usa, is seen as 'rock bottom', possibly like picking cotton once was -- there is a seemingly infinite bureaucrat population, and drinks seemingly infinite litrage of coffee
12:02 mircea_popescu "coffee"
12:02 asciilifeform ( which tastes of kerosene )
12:02 mircea_popescu you should see the coffee here btw. it's fucking incredible.
12:03 asciilifeform compared to usa, coffee in ~german airport~ 'fucking incredible'
12:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667112 << i'd like to be rid of the floating point
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12:14 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 04:22 mircea_popescu: btw @all, lemme know if you have complaints/comments re the whole b itcoin learning thing before it gets drywalled.
12:14 asciilifeform floatingpoint suxxxx
12:15 asciilifeform ( esp. given as you then also xor it with uint8's etc -- the result is ill-defined )
12:15 mircea_popescu you never xor the reals.
12:15 mircea_popescu and i see no way out of having reals sadly, because gotta vary the function list somehow.
12:16 asciilifeform why not with integer arithmetic.
12:16 mircea_popescu but imo in this application, the problems of reals actually are used, for our purpose.
12:16 mircea_popescu "fuck you, reality sucks for machines", as it were.
12:16 asciilifeform nonreproducible arithmetic suxx.
12:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not enough space in ints.
12:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it does, EXCEPT when trying to model reality.
12:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how many bits of space do you want ?
12:16 mircea_popescu whole fucking point here is the deux-pez is not a fully computable machine.
12:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i want 7.999999997
12:17 asciilifeform ieee754 'double' is still 64b .
12:17 mircea_popescu sure
12:18 asciilifeform floats suck mightily, incidentally, especially for 'model reality' or whichever involving rng -- because your uniform rng now becomes a skewed shitsoup because the number line is now unevenly populated
12:19 asciilifeform ( nobody in fact knows how to generate 'uniform float' from rng )
12:19 mircea_popescu it'd seem to me the model as described does in fact generate reals properly from rng.
12:19 mircea_popescu (the transition is via fractionals, as you can see)
12:21 asciilifeform this is not obvious from the recipe
12:21 asciilifeform plox to point?
12:21 mircea_popescu the state is kept as bytes, except for a and b parameters of linear functions, which are reals, and which change through division by ints.
12:23 asciilifeform 'This ISR describes a total of 256 linear functions, indexed in a one-byte list. Each function is of the format ai X + bi, with i taking values from 0 to 255. For each byte in the ISR : the first bit will set ai to negative if 1, and to positive otherewise ; the second bit will set ai to either 1 or 2 ; the third bid will set bi to negative if 1 and to positive otherwise ; the remainder five bits will set the value of bi (from 1 to 3
12:23 asciilifeform 2).' << sounds like the params are uint8's, from this description
12:24 asciilifeform well, ratherm int8s
12:24 asciilifeform *rather
12:24 mircea_popescu they start as ints.
12:24 mircea_popescu you end up with fn initialized as say -2 x + 14 and then on the first pas it becomes say -2 * 35 / 16 x + 14 * 35 / 16
12:25 mircea_popescu and it keeps going from there, next step eg (-2 * 35 * 7 x + 14 * 35 * 7) / 16**2
12:25 asciilifeform http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/average.htm << oblig!1111
12:28 asciilifeform reading mircea_popescu's recipe, asciilifeform begins to suspect -- but cannot yet prove -- that no better-than-chance strategy exists for this game .
12:28 mircea_popescu that would be the point, exactly.
12:28 mircea_popescu "no better than chance strat exists and you can't prove this."
12:28 asciilifeform so why would anybody play, instead of vegas
12:28 asciilifeform ( or shitoshidice or whatever the current vegas is )
12:29 mircea_popescu moreover i imagine ima actually work it like this : anyone can add as many agents as they wish for 1 bitcent per ; total pot minus what the simulation costs is divided to top scoring agents.
12:29 mircea_popescu basically a sort of "find out if you can or can't prove, FOR REALS."
12:29 asciilifeform sounds like... lottery
12:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform can you... prove this ?
12:29 asciilifeform possibly
12:30 mircea_popescu that's the fucking point. as bama well observed, "my old man used to gamble when he plantted his field and prtayed dfor rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well do it without plowing."
12:31 mircea_popescu in any case -- it's not just that there's A LOT of leakage of actual information from universe to player. it's that irl there's provably less.
12:31 mircea_popescu so if anything, the model is biased re the theoretical possibility of learning, by overstating it.
12:31 asciilifeform this imho makes for a pretty good teaching tool re reality, but poor game
12:31 mircea_popescu it just fails to be biased in favbour of internet-shithead-generation nonsense, wikitardia et all.
12:31 asciilifeform ( rather, poor gameplay )
12:31 mircea_popescu hey, i already made a game. this was the reality teaching tool.
12:31 asciilifeform sorta like, what was it, 'depression game' that some chick wrote
12:31 asciilifeform where you cry and then die
12:32 asciilifeform Very Realistic!1111
12:32 mircea_popescu whole thing started as a dispute re the practical meaning of learning.
12:32 asciilifeform if you can 'learn' from rng -- it's a poor rng
12:32 mircea_popescu this is not the case here.
12:32 asciilifeform ( i was half-convinced that mircea_popescu did this exercise as a response to the dieharder thread )
12:33 mircea_popescu there's an ennumerable list of "get infos"
12:33 mircea_popescu you can, for instance, obtain the complete and correct list of the functions in the machine.
12:33 mircea_popescu this, irl, will NEVER happen, an we have proof.
12:34 mircea_popescu in fact, every single player that spends 256 rounds finding out the functions achieves the historical goal of all human science. in this alt universe, it's not "ars longa" etc, it's a specified, 256 step process.
12:35 asciilifeform seems like the 'UMM' turns the thing into an exercise in breaking 'MPHash'
12:35 asciilifeform because without it, the info you get re the 'functions of the machine' is ~0
12:35 mircea_popescu no, you get the info, you just don't directly get how it relates to you.
12:36 mircea_popescu but, you have 8 turns to make SOME sense of it.
12:36 mircea_popescu but the fact remains -- you have "The book" ie a complete description of the god machine. all that's left is to you know, apply them "just the facts" in context.
12:36 mircea_popescu ie, this model GIVES AWAY what the ourdemocracy retards imagine is the whole job, and leaves them to you know, apply "jus' the facts"
12:37 asciilifeform funnily enough, asciilifeform already plays a variant of this game regularly, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-23#1660316
12:37 a111 Logged on 2017-05-23 03:18 asciilifeform: the 'formulate as predictor' came from asciilifeform's ongoing regular stabs at breaking shitoshi's rng.
12:37 asciilifeform i dare say the pot is a little bigger, in that casino
12:37 mircea_popescu not clear what relation exists between what you're talking about and what we were talking about.
12:38 asciilifeform both is exercise in breaking a gnarly and largely arbitrary prng.
12:38 mircea_popescu i don't see it.
12:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's is actually the slightly more complicated one.
12:38 mircea_popescu especially the "arbitrary" epithet is meaningless -- anything seems arbitrary to the disinterested. and otherwise, everything's a prng etc.
12:39 asciilifeform i'll bite :
12:39 asciilifeform from whence the 16 ?
12:39 mircea_popescu so you have even odds at increasing or decreasing.
12:39 mircea_popescu * rnd(byte)/16 comes out even
12:40 asciilifeform neato
12:40 mircea_popescu that';s what i mean, it's really very minimalistically built for the purpose of showing a set of idiots they;re idiots.
12:41 asciilifeform btw, lulzily, if mircea_popescu makes the prize ~11 btc, it will be moar than the eu thing
12:42 asciilifeform (at the most recent rate)
12:42 mircea_popescu either that or if mp waits till november...
12:42 asciilifeform lolyes
12:42 mircea_popescu kinda why i gave it a time lol
12:43 mircea_popescu anyway, in a VERY fine manifestation of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667268 + "everyone in ourdemocracy is 75", i expect entirely no participation.
12:43 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 15:48 asciilifeform: show me the 60y.o. who 'test me!1111'
12:43 mircea_popescu much like you know, all sorts of "rng experts" not merely do not wish, but specifically wish NOT TO examine FG. andf so on.
↖
12:43 asciilifeform how many entries counts as 'quorum' ?
12:43 mircea_popescu 0 useful work, +inf pointless blather.
12:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform will have to have 4 for long enough, so it dun end too soon.
12:44 asciilifeform also somebody gotta come up with the tourney judge proggy itself, neh
12:44 asciilifeform ( unless mircea_popescu already has )
12:44 mircea_popescu (that'ds how it works, once not 4 players at table one round, it ends.)
12:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i intend to open that for implementation, let people (in wot only) bid, like candi_lustt worked oput.
12:45 mircea_popescu cost to be substracted from pool.
12:45 asciilifeform ( and it wants 'mphash' also.. )
12:45 mircea_popescu afaik that had a bunch of implementations already.
12:45 asciilifeform did it ?
12:46 asciilifeform link to 1 other than mircea_popescu's php ?
12:46 mircea_popescu i published one, iirc ben_vulpes also did, etc
12:46 mircea_popescu i didn't keep so close track.
12:46 asciilifeform did he ??
12:46 asciilifeform ben_vulpes ?
12:46 mircea_popescu a page of code, in any case.
12:46 asciilifeform dun seem to be in the logs
12:46 mircea_popescu hm. i recall somethign with it
12:50 asciilifeform !#s MPFHF
12:50 a111 4 results for "MPFHF", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=MPFHF
12:50 asciilifeform !#s MPHF
12:50 a111 5 results for "MPHF", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=MPHF
12:50 asciilifeform ^ lol, apparently was entirely other thing, long ago
12:50 mircea_popescu lel
~ 18 minutes ~
13:09 asciilifeform incidentally, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667388 >> recall harrison, inventor of temperature-compensated chronometer, per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-10#1429335 ; in other contexts mircea_popescu does not even seem to find this kind of thing objectionable, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115
13:09 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 16:43 mircea_popescu: much like you know, all sorts of "rng experts" not merely do not wish, but specifically wish NOT TO examine FG. andf so on.
13:09 a111 Logged on 2016-03-10 21:32 asciilifeform: was rebuffed by royal society for ~decades~ because... not in wot.
13:09 a111 Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
↖ ↖ ↖
13:13 ben_vulpes i have an implementation
13:13 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: post?
13:14 ben_vulpes i left off before posting for some reason that i cannot now recall
13:14 ben_vulpes i suspect that i hadn't yet verified output against the runs that mircea_popescu posted
13:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't find it objectionable. it IS however disqualifying, for their claims as to the self. in other words, i don't respect them above chattels, and there's a fine reason why i'm right to not respect them above chattels : right here.
13:15 asciilifeform they happily return same favour.
13:15 mircea_popescu right.
13:16 mircea_popescu for as long as they can keep burning granpa's furniture to power the pretense machine, i suppose they can keep pretending like that matters.
13:17 asciilifeform he had a pretty tall pile of sofas.
13:17 mircea_popescu so he did.
13:19 mircea_popescu and as per theresa may, running out of them won't make them stop, either!
13:19 mircea_popescu dedicated maggots.
13:24 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: while the individual operations work, it does not yield what mircea_popescu's implementation yields
13:24 mircea_popescu iirc the problem was that my implementation was of an earlier spec.
13:25 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: post yours, then reconciliate?
13:25 ben_vulpes aye aye
~ 27 minutes ~
13:52 ben_vulpes gods be damned footnote plugin
13:58 deedbot http://cascadianhacker.com/an-implementation-of-mircea-popescus-fabulous-hash-function << CH - An implementation of Mircea Popescu's Fabulous Hash Function
13:59 asciilifeform oh hey.
14:00 * ben_vulpes wiggles eyebrows
14:07 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: bit-not is not destructive
14:07 asciilifeform !!
14:07 asciilifeform this might not be the only mistake
14:08 asciilifeform (invert s) wants a destructive op
14:09 asciilifeform but it ends up merely returning (bit-not element) which does nothing
14:10 ben_vulpes oh gracious
14:11 asciilifeform try it yourself,
14:11 asciilifeform (let ((foo #*11101010))
14:11 asciilifeform (format t "~A~%" (bit-not foo))
14:11 asciilifeform (format t "~A~%" foo))
14:12 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3mo8X/?raw=true << spoiler
14:13 asciilifeform again i did not even go over whole thing, this was only the 1st bit to stick out to naked eye
14:14 ben_vulpes aha
14:19 asciilifeform oddly enough you knew this when writing the tests
14:19 asciilifeform or it'd appear
14:20 asciilifeform where you
14:20 asciilifeform (let* ((original #*01010101)
14:20 asciilifeform (expected #*10101010)
14:20 asciilifeform (actual (invert original)))
14:20 asciilifeform (assert (equal expected actual))
14:20 asciilifeform ... etc.
14:21 ben_vulpes tested one way, used another.
14:21 ben_vulpes "can show presence, never absence"
14:21 asciilifeform aaha.
14:21 ben_vulpes ty asciilifeform plz to comment on www?
14:22 asciilifeform posted.
14:22 ben_vulpes ty muchly
14:22 asciilifeform (check your mod queue)
14:23 ben_vulpes aye
~ 57 minutes ~
15:21 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667282 << that somehow makes perfect sense on very many levels
15:21 a111 Logged on 2017-06-08 15:56 asciilifeform: #1 major at umd !11 ( i shit thee not )
15:21 mircea_popescu idle bitchez wanna tell guys what to do.
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
16:25 asciilifeform in other noose, the (microscopic) ra-226 ( for MB/s 'gold standard' rng test ) came. asciilifeform was half-convinced that it'd get swallowed by the post
16:26 asciilifeform thing is regulation-sized , but theoretically such an item oughta have been sent by fedex. but, go figure.
16:27 asciilifeform the lead pig in which it is to spend the rest of its life, is - fortunately - also here.
~ 3 hours 15 minutes ~
19:42 mircea_popescu good for you then lel
19:52 shinohai !~ticker --market all
19:52 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2814.25, vol: 13252.18759479 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2712.6, vol: 5143.30112 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2788.5, vol: 17014.05467836 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2845.819072, vol: 13276.98150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2815.999, vol: 5301.32096462 | Volume-weighted last average: 2804.38640083
20:03 mod6 evenin'
20:07 mircea_popescu hola
20:10 mod6 just catchin' up on ze logz
20:13 shinohai http://archive.is/Zlp1i <<< Work for Qntra instead, where sharing screenshots of pron around the office is encouraged.
20:27 mod6 sweet!, got my touchpad working
20:27 shinohai :D
20:28 mod6 easy asf
20:28 mod6 [this is my first gentoo desktop env.]
20:28 mod6 went together pretty easily.
20:29 shinohai What Desktop did you use btw?
20:29 mod6 xfce for now.
20:29 shinohai Nifty.
20:29 mod6 probably will switch to fvwm when i get all the configs in place.
20:30 mod6 my openbsd lappy is fvwm, i love it.
20:30 mod6 i basically have no use for a "desktop environment" anyway. does ~0 for me.
20:30 shinohai I'm still using fluxbox, use what you know I guess.
20:31 mod6 ive never used this one before... seems to "work" ok i guess.
20:32 shinohai I had xfce on an Arch install I tried once ... was indeed ok. Much better than gnome/gdm from mah Debian days.
20:40 mod6 shinohai: werd
~ 33 minutes ~
21:13 asciilifeform mod6: ever tried 'ratpoison' ?
21:14 asciilifeform mod6: http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison
21:14 asciilifeform and holyshit, there's a new release?!!
21:17 asciilifeform http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/ratpoison.git/log << some of the changes are at least somewhat wtf
21:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71121F878BF486D8975A77F388436048DEA2FFBB1DE225C7697F2F4E37575E2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1152...9889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.246.69.16 (ssh-rsa key from 183.246.69.16 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
21:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8F949C482D230ADA81BFECE7760FD7F88B390232D14960D68D8D21112967151F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1152...9889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.246.76.186 (ssh-rsa key from 183.246.76.186 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
21:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E32A980A153D1BD323493B5F6A6EF42AD702773A85D9B1DDAA7F1F90C1FFEB25 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1152...9889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.246.86.107 (ssh-rsa key from 183.246.86.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
21:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71121F878BF486D8975A77F388436048DEA2FFBB1DE225C7697F2F4E37575E2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1124...9927 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.246.69.16 (ssh-rsa key from 183.246.69.16 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
~ 30 minutes ~
21:54 mod6 sweet, ok up and running with fvwm
21:55 * shinohai has determined he is too lazy for ratpoison, switches back
21:56 mod6 lol, again, never thought i'd say this, but, ratpoison looks good
21:59 shinohai It is very nice looking and lightweight ( big plus) but gonna require a learning curve to be useful for me
22:01 mod6 i used to use one called 'ion', which had some awesome keybindings. this was suggested to me by a gentoo guy back in like 03.
22:01 mod6 but, now, find that fvwm works fine for what i want
~ 37 minutes ~
22:38 asciilifeform mod6: before ratpoison, i used 'flwm'
22:39 asciilifeform !~google flwm
22:39 jhvh1 asciilifeform: flwm: <http://flwm.sourceforge.net/>; FLWM - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLWM>; Ubuntu Manpage: flwm - The Fast Light Window Manager: <http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/flwm.1.html>
22:51 mod6 nice
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
23:58 trinque heh, bringing up these old window managers reminds me of a more optimistic time in re: computing in my youth
23:58 trinque installing slackware and so on
23:59 trinque seemed like the open source thing might be going somewhere, back then.
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