#trilema | 2017-05-26

i plan to buy retardedly nice wine

00:09

that's about as much thought as ive put into disposing of my spoils

00:09

prune juice. better! healthier! alternative!

00:09

gross

00:10

anyway. the problem with wine is that better wine and expensive wine do not well correlate. for the past 40 or so years europe sat on a lake of wine. you can have perfectly fine wines for the cost of the bottling, you can also spend as-much-as-you-want for idiot veblen americana.

00:11

tell me about it

00:11

not that anyone will ever believe me about the gorgeous product of the dundee hills

00:11

eh, no terrine no wine.

00:13

this is another word for terroir?

00:13

~failed pun attempt.

00:13

ah

00:14

teh java has burnt my appreciation for wordplay to a stub

00:14

most puns dun work, most wisdom is folly, sometrhing something the holly./

00:14

fortunately this is only ever terpenorary

00:14

and the green grass grows all around all around and the green grass grows all around

~ 1 hours 36 minutes ~

01:51

The grass s always greener on BingoBoingo's side of the fence

~ 24 minutes ~

02:15

deedbot

http://qntra.net/2017/05/gianforte-and-sanity-prevail-in-montana-referendum-on-self-defense/ << Qntra - Gianforte And Sanity Prevail In Montana Referendum On Self Defense

02:16

that was unexpected.

02:17

4 srs

02:20

http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=7797

02:26

Montana prolly doesn't suck

02:27

i trust the pantsuit clown party is well butthurt over the serious threat to ourdemocracy presented by inept child behaviour meeting some sort of correction in practice.

02:29

Anyways, I hope this emergent trend grows into next spring's congressional primaries. Candidates eating a misdemeanor rap in exchange for pajama boy beating cred.

02:29

http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=7808&pr=1

02:30

i'd vote for a guy who beat up a redditard. how bad can he be ? he got the basics right.

02:33

I know, right? And not just a plain cannon fodder redditard, but a GUARDIAN REDDITARD!

02:34

yeah.

02:35

It's like making things happen to Sam

02:36

kik

02:38

Make things happen to Sam, win the hearts of the locals!

02:39

Sure the car may be French, but it's yours and the level 1337 GUARDIAN REDDITARD is going to know it

~ 4 hours 21 minutes ~

07:00

!~later tell BingoBoingo So my consensus piece got removed from r/bitcoin, r/btc, and was DV'd into oblivion on r/buttcoin though it is still there.

07:00

jhvh1

shinohai: The operation succeeded.

07:00

I haz agiteated the locals

~ 4 hours 27 minutes ~

11:27

mornin'

11:28

heya mod6

11:28

how goeth

11:28

good! u?

11:29

mostly snoar

11:30

werd

~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~

12:40

meanwhile, in other non-news, http://www.nihamkin.com/2016/10/23/writing-linux-modules-in-ada-part-1

~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~

13:41

hey, neat

13:48

mod6: somewhat relatedly, chased bug in ffa for a ~week : wanted to make FZ.Z a trimmable ( e.g. length set as optional param ) so as to enable karatsubaization (which does 0 useful without being able to, for it and nothing else, constrain the lenght of FZ)

13:48

mod6: but i forgot the rule that if you type Blah(Optional : SomeMachineType := itsdefaultvalue) is record ....

13:48

than you're fucked because SomeMachineType is , say, 2**64

13:49

and the proggy will try to ALLOCATE THAT PER FZ

13:49

because such is the rule, it has to have room for max possible size...

13:49

(given as inside we have Z : Words(0 .. Optional) ! )

13:50

to asciilifeform's shame , he instrumented the proggy in gdb, found nothing useful, in the end found with strace.

13:51

lol shinohai

13:52

'bug' is not even right word here, mod6 ,

13:52

it's a classical 'my proggy doesn't work, because ada is harsh mistress' followed by week with book and bare hands/teeth and finally 'oh huh, i broke rule'

13:52

shinohai is that good for altcoins ?

↖

13:54

!~ticker --market all

13:54

jhvh1

BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2265.01, vol: 25349.01115508 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2232.883, vol: 17179.80007 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2219.5, vol: 40761.18369692 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2186.955543, vol: 29505.09260000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2261.257, vol: 10961.7372161 | Volume-weighted last average: 2226.61922601

14:03

asciilifeform: aha. i can tell you from my own recent adventures into learning ada that it is strict, and strong.

14:04

mod6: idea is to prevent runtime surprises at any cost.

14:04

i set out to do something similar to what phf had been doing by writing some tests utilizing ffa. but then i couldn't figure out how to even make a package with function or procedure that used a generic type.

14:05

ada generics are interesting, they are not like cpp templates, not mere string substitution -- the thing actually has to prove correct for any legal invocation, anywhere

14:06

( because it can in fact be invoked in ~arbitrary places, and with params not predetermined at compile time, unlike cpp template )

14:06

so then i took a step back. decided to do something like what the initial steps of my V do; list the contents of a directory, throw the filenames into a list using Doubly_Linked_Lists(Unbounded_String) and then attempt to pass them to another function that does further parsing.

14:07

i recommend to avoid unboundedstring and other runtime-heaptronic types, esp for n00bz

14:07

So my progress was pretty solid. But I'm not all the way there yet.

14:07

pragma Restrictions (No_Implicit_Heap_Allocations);

14:08

^ put at the head of your main body, and see what ends up barfing

14:08

Oh yeha, for sure, normally, i wouldn't do such a thing. but i'm just trying to grab the reins at this point. just get ~something~ to actually work.

14:08

i get this. but using heap is even more of 'adventure' in ada.

14:09

you will run against the 'access' (pointer) visibility rules, which are downright 'fascist'

14:09

( gotta prove to the compiler that pointer under NO circumstances can wander 'off the reservation', and it will reject certain obviously 'to naked eye' valid uses, and you will tear hair out )

14:10

for instance, the almost ubiquitous c-ism, of creating a pointer (ada 'access') variable on a procedure's local (stack) and passing it to something -- anything -- is illegal

↖

14:11

<+asciilifeform> i get this. but using heap is even more of 'adventure' in ada. << ahh, i see.

14:11

<+asciilifeform> ^ put at the head of your main body, and see what ends up barfing << im gonna try this and see if that helps a bit more.

14:12

mod6: whole thing is a quite painful experience until it begins to dawn on you why the various 'fascisms' are there.

14:12

this all makes sense, and for this strictness I like it. im just not quite used to it all yet.

14:12

took asciilifeform year+ to 'get used to'

14:12

asciilifeform the problem is this : you're an intelligent fellow that has interesting things to say, sometimes. some other times, however, you metamorphosize into dumbalf. i have no idea if it's the phases of the moon or what you ate that day or what, but the change is palpable.

14:12

as it happens, dumbalf wishes to spend all its time, and if possible everyone else's time, engaged in the following infantile game : it will spend about half a second to come up with some strong statement that's evidently false, entirely predicated on ignorance, pure nonsense. then he'll defend it tooth and nail, for hours if need be, exploring every nook and cranny of stupid shit that could be said to defend stupid shit. thi

14:12

s, of course, does nothing -- stupid shit is predictable and it's not going to catch smart people unprepared.

14:12

but then, once however many also intelligent, also with interesting things to say folks have wasted however many hours of their life showing dumbalf that indeed, dumb=dumb and stupid=stupid, dumbalf will just spend ANOTHER half second to come up with another bit of nonsense, vaguely related if related at all, and pivot to that.

14:12

but he pivots seamlessly, like duck in water, or if you prefer like textbook idiot : there's absolutely no sign whatsoever that all the time wasted on educating it left any kind of mark whatsoever -- a sad suspicion confirmed by the cyclical nature of the nonsense. so he'll proceed to defend the new half second half baked "idea" in the same manner.

14:13

while you were still doing new material, this was merely tedious and unpleasant ; but since you're doing re-runs these days it's simply insufferable. ima take you off ignore now, but plox to bear in mind that too much dumbalf in the mix actually makes talking to you -ev.

14:13

i figure, the more i work with it / use it, the easier it'll come.

14:13

woah

14:13

*

mircea_popescu waves.

14:13

ohai mircea_popescu

14:13

mircea_popescu: we were doing adaisms, you probably did not miss anything mircea_popescuine

14:15

mircea_popescu: was that a quote from somewhere, or your own text just in one large paste?

14:16

mod6 sometimes i wish to re-read what i'm about to say, so i write it in advance.

14:17

aha, yeah, i do the same sometimes too.

14:17

<+asciilifeform> took asciilifeform year+ to 'get used to' << yeah, im def. at least a year behind :/

14:18

i really started getting into ada like... maybe a month or to ago, even though I kinda started nosing through the Ada 95 Ref book a while before.

14:18

s/to/two

14:18

im gonna keep working on it. i figure after enough beatings, my morale will improve :]

14:19

mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/41dLQ/?raw=true ( unrelatedly )

14:21

mod6: morale improves, at least in my experience, once you begin to write working proggy from 1st try, after period of banging head against compiler

14:21

yah, it's a process.

14:23

I read through ffa, and it 'makes sense' to me as far as what you're doing in most cases -- as I understand the intent of the expressions. but i stand in awe, especially after trying my own hand at Ada, at what you've produced.

14:24

mod6: possibly it needs to be simpler, then, intent is that no 'awe' should result from reading it, it oughta be screamingly obvious

14:24

at some point i intend to try to convince mircea_popescu to read it and it'll be ultimate test

14:25

asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/CVVIW/?raw=true

14:25

I think what is simple, obvious, and kindergarden-esq to you, is, at least for me, still very impressive.

14:28

dun worry mod6 , soon you too will be jaded and not ever again impressed with ~anything ..!

14:29

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-26#1662654 <<< Good for all agitated teat coins.

14:29

a111

Logged on 2017-05-26 17:52 mircea_popescu: shinohai is that good for altcoins ?

14:29

asciilifeform: haha, ok

14:31

mod6: it is probably possible to write a treatise re how proper programming is the art of the 'unsexy', of necessary but unexciting work , like well-mopped floor or well-peeled potato

14:31

but i suspect that it is already written, somewhere, i will not attempt to reinvent bicycle.

14:34

ah, indeed.

~ 35 minutes ~

15:09

*

BingoBoingo presently surprised with performance of "tapcon" masonry drill bit performance in 12v drill. Slow, but no slower than hammer drill. Tis possible the space between compact drill and full blown rotary hammer is without future

15:11

Certainly requires not much more pushing from operator.

15:11

BingoBoingo: you can drill ~anything if slowly enough

15:22

Ah, but has gone from mind numbingly slow to, slow but on par with "feature checkbox"

~ 3 hours 40 minutes ~

19:02

asciilifeform i'll read it, i'll read it.

19:12

l

19:22

meanwhile in other disadvantages of kissing all the random chicks / hanging out with "lesbians", i got the worst fucking cold ;/

19:23

El gripe! :(

19:23

nah, some sort of staph i think

19:24