Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-01-18 | 2017-01-20 → ↓
01:11 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602666 << some very early, news to report: I've successfully implemented this fix into the forthcoming version of V (99994), and all original and new automated tests passed.
01:11 a111 Logged on 2017-01-14 01:07 mircea_popescu: a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present ; not if ANY of its antecedents are present
01:12 mod6 There's still a bunch more clean up and testing ahead, but a step in the right direction. o7
01:17 ben_vulpes cool, mod6
~ 40 minutes ~
01:57 ben_vulpes http://www.wilfred.me.uk/blog/2017/01/11/announcing-remacs-porting-emacs-to-rust/
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~ 3 hours 38 minutes ~
05:36 mircea_popescu is this good for rustcoin ?
05:38 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DDC31CFD58561A297361FFB673C672306507F014E8422D13821815642064DD42 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 48159739175968624148092767 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Christoph Giesel <christoph.giesel@piraten-lsa.de>; '
~ 20 minutes ~
05:59 mircea_popescu mod6 nice.
~ 44 minutes ~
06:43 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2009/garond-a-murit/ << apropos of nothing at all, anyone else kill garond ?
~ 3 hours 41 minutes ~
10:24 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605069 << so now we know which tumour has been chosen to kill emacs with.
10:24 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 06:57 ben_vulpes: http://www.wilfred.me.uk/blog/2017/01/11/announcing-remacs-porting-emacs-to-rust/
10:24 asciilifeform 'If you’d like to join us, there’s plenty to do. You could: Port a small C function in lisp.h to lisp.rs. Port your favourite built-in elisp function to Rust.'
10:25 asciilifeform and before long, it will be impossible to actually get normal-people emacs running on any typical os.
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10:26 asciilifeform 'We can leverage the rapidly-growing crate ecosystem. We can drop support legacy compilers and platforms (looking at you, MS-DOS).'
10:26 asciilifeform turns out -- the fungus is in full bloom.
~ 23 minutes ~
10:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605077 << mostly for lack of actual people.
10:49 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 15:25 asciilifeform: and before long, it will be impossible to actually get normal-people emacs running on any typical os.
10:50 asciilifeform noshit, fungus dun grow on healthy tissue
10:52 trinque gotta just stop; I'm never installing another emacs version again
10:54 asciilifeform trinque: recall, the drepperites are getting ready to break glibc so that no moar clasical emacs.
10:54 asciilifeform which means living on specially-terraformed planet, if you want it to work.
10:55 trinque I built on musl lots of times before
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10:55 mircea_popescu glibc is already frozen pre 5
10:55 mircea_popescu well, gcc i mean
10:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592090 << thread
10:56 a111 Logged on 2016-12-28 19:23 mircea_popescu: which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
10:57 mircea_popescu anyway, the "leverage ecosystem" ie, "someone else will do our work for us" is very much usg.dos style, but also very much hopeless. seriously, they'll leverage ?
10:57 mircea_popescu turns out i can bit mit with one hand while watching porn. they'll leverage what, they got nothing.
10:58 mircea_popescu der angriff steiners war ein befehl!!1
10:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the weevils do in fact leverage one another's weeviling.
11:00 phf seems like freenode upgraded all their servers to letsencrypt, meaning that you can't just verify ssl's fingerprint once a year. instead each server has own ssl, updated once in 90 days.
11:00 mircea_popescu you understand nothing they leveraged works ? they ain't got a browser. google is trying to rescue 20 years of weveling with dubious results. there's no python 3. there's no ipv6. there's no trb. there's no eth. there's nothing. NOTHING.
11:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'works' ain't their objective. area denial, is.
11:01 mircea_popescu problem being girls going "you can't go in here" only works on the other girls.
11:02 asciilifeform phf: fleanode's 'security' was a joke afaik always.
11:02 mircea_popescu phf it's entirely unclear what ssl is supposed to provide. it might have been of marginal utility prior to their nsa merger, but these days it's utter waste of time. treat all freenode connections as plaintext.
11:03 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/college-student-pleads-guilty-developing-malicious-software
11:03 asciilifeform 'According to the statement of facts filed with the plea agreement, Shames developed malicious software, known as a keylogger'
11:03 mircea_popescu "sold to 3k users who used it on 16k victims" dude...
11:04 trinque 3k sales and he couldn't pay for a semi-literate lawyer ?
11:05 asciilifeform in related lulz, https://archive.is/P9ZHt << krebs is back to doing what he was made for, elaborate witch-hunting for usg handlers
11:06 mircea_popescu trinque "sales" here means usg sops style nothing, like obamacare isn't a tax. his thing was mentioned once on a forum with 3k "registered users".
11:08 trinque these creatures must want to sign the papers.
11:09 mircea_popescu hey, it's how you get the ssi rite ?
11:09 trinque and you get to be an elite renegade hacker on the dole, no less
11:09 mircea_popescu you know ?
11:12 mircea_popescu anyway, so krebs has sob story about how republic successfuly denies empire comms ; and wants to add some sort of "but we pay to house some random bums for the rest of their lives so it's all ok"
11:12 mircea_popescu if you believe this is how it works, all the better.
11:25 thestringpuller trinque: good lawyer is hard to find too.
11:27 phf in unrelated lulz a u.s. retail bank is unable to send an international wire transfer. i bring a piece of paper with all correct requisites. half the numbers "i don't know what this number is", so follow up with calls for numbers from the fucking paper that, who could've predicted, are required. write down the numbers on their end incorrectly. the last part of saga: they now claim one of the numbers is invalid, but if you simply google for it it comes up
11:27 phf as a valid ifsc
11:28 mircea_popescu yep. usg banks won't do intl wires, for a decade+ now
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11:28 mircea_popescu they very transparently pretend ineptitude, but it's pretty clearly fed instructions.
11:34 mircea_popescu (and if you try to drive cash to mexico they'll try and steal it ; and if you eg open a foreign corp with a subsidiary in the us and send the money home they'll pretend you're engaging in money laundering, and in general expatriating your wealth is generally more difficult than it's worth, which is why sane people do not live in the us.)
11:35 mircea_popescu also why eg apple doesn't wire to new york the proceeds of sales in paris.
11:37 mircea_popescu conversely of course, every dollar you do take out of the us hurts the usg considerably ; i'd guess the going rate is 130k expatriated is about equivalent to shooting a nypd officer in the face.
11:37 mircea_popescu about there.
11:42 phf hmm
11:44 phf might just have to fall back to cash, i was trying to be prim and proper, alas
11:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605116 << worked great last i tried it ( 2013 )
11:44 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 16:28 mircea_popescu: yep. usg banks won't do intl wires, for a decade+ now
11:44 asciilifeform but i was sending small (few $k usd) amount.
11:45 mircea_popescu well supposedly in moscow there also lived a fellow who always found fish at the meat shop and to this day has nfi what everyone was on about.
11:45 asciilifeform note, i will not claim that there is necessarily still fish at that particular meat shop.
11:46 asciilifeform or would have been if the planets had been aligned differently, etc.
11:46 mircea_popescu incidentally this'd have been a great show, i imagine, guy going on street idly, happening on meat shop just as the truck unloads, and generally doing a grand blond a la chaussure noire but a la russe.
11:46 mircea_popescu did this exist ?
11:47 asciilifeform not afaik, but perhaps phf saw such a thing.
11:47 mircea_popescu Mr. Serendipivse
11:47 asciilifeform lel
11:47 mircea_popescu almost sounds georgian neh ?
11:48 mircea_popescu which yes, subtext :D how did you call these ? they were sopirle in romanian
11:48 mircea_popescu ie lizards.
12:01 asciilifeform https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1Mfa3YXAAEpmGy.jpg << relatedly.
12:03 phf so i called the new branch of the bank i'm transferring to, they confirmed the ifsc number. i'm not sure what i prefer, the fed theory or the incompetence theory. either...
12:03 phf *new york branch
12:04 asciilifeform https://archive.is/stOV3 << in other olds >> elaborate yarn re 'mysterious' habit of u.s. soldiers, of bashing in the heads of killed goatfuckers. presented as 'atrocious' and 'senseless' etc. and i read whole spittoon waiting for the obvious reason to be mentioned, and of course was not (ground beed the face, and you dun need to worry whether you executed the hit on exactly the right d00d..)
12:04 asciilifeform *beef
12:05 asciilifeform lulzy, they even issued little axes for this work.
12:05 asciilifeform (avoid wasting ammo)
12:07 phf i thought little axes were standard issue item, sort of like a sapper spade
12:08 asciilifeform claims -- not
12:08 asciilifeform (certainly not in regular infantry)
12:16 asciilifeform !~later tell trinque re: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605086 >> plz consider posting recipe for musltronic emacs build! i promise to test.
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12:16 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 15:55 trinque: I built on musl lots of times before
12:16 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
12:16 asciilifeform (iirc all versions of emacs from past decade or so have some kind of perverse hardcoded reliance on glibc in particular)
12:16 phf did anybody do a musl sbcl? i have a musl cmucl in the backlog, but way down the list (perhaps once i get this x60 going)
12:17 asciilifeform phf: not afaik
12:17 asciilifeform ... what does the thing even ~need~ libc for?!
12:17 asciilifeform (i can clearly see that my copy is linked with it. but -- why?)
12:17 phf sb-unix
12:18 asciilifeform aah
12:18 asciilifeform does it follow that libc can be omitted entirely if one nixes sb-unix ?
12:18 phf but i think sb-unix exposes some kernel level shit, because need it for reading files and exec and such
12:18 asciilifeform hm ok
12:19 asciilifeform all of the crud that will have to be rewritten on (hypothetical) sbcl-on-iron, conveniently.
12:19 asciilifeform phf: would you say that cmucl is more suited for 'iron' incarnation? (i.e., can it be build without gcc?)
12:19 asciilifeform *built
12:20 phf so i don't know how sbcl does it, but cmucl has unix.lisp, which kernel relies on early on in the operation, and yes, contains all the "talk to the world" crud. cmucl actually does some hack where only subset of unix is used for operations and then when you (require unix) it adds some of the userspace
12:20 trinque phf: the gentoo musl overlay has sbcl patches iirc. gotta forgo threads
12:20 phf there's was a wip fork of making linux-unix.lisp talk directly using syscalls without libc. that's probably lowest common denominator
12:21 asciilifeform trinque: pretty strange, because threads work fine in musltronic trb
12:21 phf who knows with threads, i wouldn't be surprised if sbcl touches them in very inappropriate, glibc specific ways
12:22 phf one of the major reasons why porting cmucl might be easier, a lot more naive image construction (doesn't have that whole sb! sb- machinery), and lack of threads
12:22 phf *porting cmucl to raw iron
12:23 * asciilifeform can picture this.
12:23 asciilifeform traditional headaches turn to wins, the fewer 'native xyz...' the better, for iron.
12:24 phf cmucl is basically a very straightforward lisp machine port, so there's less unixisms built in. sbcl is modernized for unix, but with corresponding tradeoffs
12:24 asciilifeform incidentally imho traditional unix-style scheduler is not appropriate for 'x86 iron lisps'
12:24 asciilifeform instead ought to simply have 1 permanently-running instance of the runtime per cpu core
12:24 asciilifeform with some means of communication between.
12:25 asciilifeform phf: did you ever expand on why your gadget crashed daily when it sat on top of cmucl ?
12:25 asciilifeform was it a unixism ?
12:26 phf well, you were right, it's the lack of threads. you can't build for cmucl green threads like it's native.
12:27 asciilifeform this i recall. but didja ever find out specifically why.
12:28 asciilifeform as in, 'the locking system is defective in yet-undiscovered way, proggy fandangoes over own toes'
12:28 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605148 << https://cgit.gentoo.org/proj/musl.git/tree/app-editors/emacs/files << without claims to the sanity of anything done
12:28 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 17:16 asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque re: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605086 >> plz consider posting recipe for musltronic emacs build! i promise to test.
12:28 asciilifeform ty trinque !
12:28 phf no, i
12:28 asciilifeform trinque: you tested, worx? also on x11 ?
12:29 asciilifeform also it does seem to insist on dynamic linking.
12:29 phf no, i'm not that far in the stack to tackle threading. because of goals, if i do, or once i do rather, i'll just work on making them better green threads, rather than native.
12:30 asciilifeform phf: well yes, 'metal' cmucl would need own scheduler regardless.
12:30 trinque asciilifeform: yeah works; I had it built against gtk2, -dbus, etc
12:30 asciilifeform trinque: pretty neat.
12:31 asciilifeform seems like a fully-musltronic, work-ready linux is possible, then.
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12:31 asciilifeform emacs, gcc4.9+gnat, build tools, trb, kernel.
12:32 phf well, stali has a musltronic pdf reader and web (they have their own wrapper around webkit, called st i believe, which is literally just a frame with addressbar)
12:32 asciilifeform (then perhaps some luxuries, e.g., 'midnight'. then x11 and ratpoison. is pretty much all.
12:32 asciilifeform )
12:32 asciilifeform phf: webkit builds musltronically?!
12:34 phf re cmucl threads i think that it doesn't always preempt correctly. like it has explicit yield, which you don't always have to call, but it being there implies. also hunchentoot wasn't working right without putting a yield somewhere in the scheduler. it's all very vague, because i've not spend any time looking at it
12:34 asciilifeform sounds gnarly
12:36 phf there's some strategy in building multithreading in a lisp that all the commercial lisps share with cmucl and that's different from sbcl, but i'm not quite sure what it is yet
12:36 asciilifeform imho this is one of those things that will have to be demolished ~100% and rebuilt from scratch , for any reasonable 'metallization'
12:38 asciilifeform also (and iirc i discussed this on my www at one point) the correct approach is to ditch the native compiler, in favour of the interpreter, hand-compiled to fit in L0 cache
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12:38 asciilifeform then thing has a chance of working correctly.
12:39 phf so cmucl introduced this whole idea of vops (virtual operation)
12:39 asciilifeform these are just asm macros neh ?
12:40 asciilifeform or is it 'bytecode' a la tinyscheme?
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12:40 phf it's sort of "writing assembly with sexp", but really it's an abstraction layer for what used to be microcoding
12:41 phf so cmucl's compiler interleaves vops, while cmucl's interpreter uses vops as bytecode instructions
12:41 asciilifeform interleaves forth-style ?
12:43 phf well, that's not the right term to use. depending on a vop it either jmps, calls or inlines
12:45 asciilifeform so liquishit
12:45 asciilifeform (this imho is quite sorry state, you oughta be able to go from the executable TO the lisp representation without ANY info loss)
12:46 asciilifeform and -- necessarily -- vice-versa.
12:46 phf so eval directly on source, without a vm even?
12:47 asciilifeform not necessarily, though it is one way of achieving this.
12:47 phf actually it's all a lot more clearer when you read the early cmucl papers. the mess grew in unix user space..
12:49 phf you could maybe put cmucl's interpreter vm into l0, have vops as operations that you need but that you don't have in a vm (simd, floating point)
12:49 asciilifeform the two major caltrops re 'iron lisps on x86' are 1) interrupts 2) dma
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12:49 asciilifeform they both violate whatever sane execution model you pick
12:50 phf right
12:51 phf fit cadr interpreter into l0 :P
12:52 asciilifeform sorta what asciilifeform tried to do (then barfed.)
12:52 thestringpuller http://visual6502.org/
12:53 asciilifeform thestringpuller: linked in the logs.
12:53 thestringpuller #!s http://visual6502.org
12:53 thestringpuller !#s http://visual6502.org
12:53 a111 4 results for "http://visual6502.org", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fvisual6502.org
12:54 thestringpuller btcbase search didn't show it from browser. weird.
12:54 phf thestringpuller: which string did you use originally?
12:55 thestringpuller http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fvisual6502.org%2F << that one
12:55 thestringpuller that trailing slash >> http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fvisual6502.org
12:56 phf hah
12:57 * trinque quite interested to hear why asciilifeform barfed
12:58 asciilifeform trinque: tldr: interrupts and dma.
12:59 trinque ah ok, thoughts were connected
13:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605192 << this wouldn't hurt anything.
13:01 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 17:31 asciilifeform: seems like a fully-musltronic, work-ready linux is possible, then.
13:02 asciilifeform trinque: i must note: just because asciilifeform barfed, does not mean that a clean solution to the problem cannot exist. only that he did not find one.
13:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605206 << i always thought that's what yarvin was john smithing with his "jets"
13:03 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 17:40 asciilifeform: or is it 'bytecode' a la tinyscheme?
13:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nah, 'jets' were a terrifying crackpottery where he promised to 'recognize algorithms' and 'transparently' substitute in optimized/c-tronic routines
13:03 mircea_popescu yes but started (at least i think) as vops.
13:04 asciilifeform well ~all interpreted programming languages use 'bytecode' or some variant (i.e. emulator for fictional cpu that fits the task)
13:04 asciilifeform e.g., perl, python, tinyscheme, many forths
13:05 mircea_popescu aha
13:05 asciilifeform name 'bytecode' simply came about because making the opcodes 1 octet long is convenient
13:06 asciilifeform (yet unpublished) 'p' is a 'bytecode' system -- all ops are 1 byte long, and take no operands, and all bytes are valid ops.
13:06 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605218 << actually non-interrupt / non-dma (and possibly tagged ram) is about the reason to make own fpga cpu
13:06 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 17:49 asciilifeform: the two major caltrops re 'iron lisps on x86' are 1) interrupts 2) dma
13:06 asciilifeform well yes.
13:06 mircea_popescu interrupts ffs. wtf.
13:06 asciilifeform is how i got there.
13:06 mircea_popescu aha.
13:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i figured re p when i saw your padder attempt.
13:07 asciilifeform interrupts, dma, are relics from dark age when there was 1 cpu and it cost most of what the machine cost.
13:07 asciilifeform they make it possible to actually do any work on von neumann monstrosity.
13:08 asciilifeform at the cost of destroying whatever conceptual integrity machine might otherwise have.
13:08 asciilifeform (instead of 1 model of computation, you now have 3 -- that you know about. plus others, unwanted, resulting from interactions b/w the 3.)
13:08 mircea_popescu oh and also - automated ring buffer allocation. if you declare 8 bytes and write 9, you overwrite your first. YOUR first. not someone else's.
13:08 mircea_popescu which'd be interesting if all pointers live as mod math.
13:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ada's 'modular types' come to mind
13:09 mircea_popescu yep. but cpu-enforced, all memory allocation is that.
13:09 mircea_popescu your pointer is 0x88faf0:0a and god help you, if you wish to write 500 bytes in there all the better.
13:10 mircea_popescu you'll be left with the last 10
13:10 asciilifeform holy fuq why would you give the operator raw pointers.
13:10 asciilifeform why not also raw voltages.
13:10 mircea_popescu at some point raw pointers must be given to someone
13:10 mircea_popescu not necessarily operator, but also none of the current straight on addressing bs.
13:11 mircea_popescu cpu can not address memory in the sense of "from here to eternity".
13:11 mircea_popescu cpu can only address memory if the correct size (0a) is provided for 0x88faf0.
13:11 asciilifeform how cpu physically moves the bits, is quite separate question from what operator thinks about.
13:12 mircea_popescu yah, but i want this quite exactly, for it to not be POSSIBLE for memory to be addressed as it currently is.
13:12 mircea_popescu ie "i want to read from x onwards".
13:12 mircea_popescu it must not be possible to read from x unless you correctly specify the ring size.
13:13 asciilifeform the simplest way to do this using current off-the-shelf hardware is to not expose the pointers.
13:13 mircea_popescu promise.
13:13 asciilifeform aha, and know why ?
13:13 mircea_popescu i want the cpu to not be physically capable of addressing it.
13:13 asciilifeform because peripherals .
13:13 mircea_popescu fuck peripherals.
13:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for so long as memory is sold as a dumb capacitor grid, cpu can necessarily address all of it (that is, all of the connected ones)
13:14 asciilifeform but if you had something clever in mind, around this, i'm all ears
13:14 mircea_popescu that doesn't mean the cpu die must be cast in such a way as to allow anyone else to do it.
13:14 asciilifeform 'anyone else' being operator ?
13:14 mircea_popescu if you fail to provide the buffer size, cpu reads 0 bits from address specified.
13:15 mircea_popescu if you provide buffer size, and it is the correct buffer size for offset, you can read that many bits.
13:15 mircea_popescu if it is incorrect, you read 0 bits.
13:15 mircea_popescu same for writingt.
13:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in sane programming system (e.g., lisps) nobody gets to point to 'memory address'. they point to an item that necessarily and unseparably carries not only address (not visible to or alterable by the operator, normally) but also a type and -- when the thing is >1 machine word in size -- a size.
13:16 mircea_popescu yes but that's an os.
13:16 asciilifeform on a proper lispm (definitionally) it is done by the iron.
13:16 mircea_popescu i don't want the functionality exposed.
13:16 asciilifeform aha so mircea_popescu is simply asking for lispm, lol.
13:16 mircea_popescu i guess.
13:16 asciilifeform i don't disagree.
13:16 mircea_popescu if it actually does that.
13:17 mircea_popescu i suppose its tagged memory model does pretty much a superclass of the above
13:17 asciilifeform it did, though not in the peculiar 'stick shift' way described by mircea_popescu earlier
13:17 mircea_popescu yeah
13:17 mircea_popescu i don't insist re implementation ; was just included as example
13:18 mircea_popescu anyway. all pointer references to read must be offset:size or no dice ; all pointer references to write may be offset, and will write mod size ; all pointer allocation specifies size and receives offset.
13:19 mircea_popescu and literally &p:sizeof(p*) calls throughout all c, none of this current bs.
13:19 asciilifeform on a proper lispmtronic comp, there is no juggling of 'pointers' or any other naked, unannotated bitstrings.
13:20 mircea_popescu i imagine it prolly also works. ianale
13:20 asciilifeform if cpu wants to move, add, subtract, etc. a bitstring, it has a length glued to it, and a type (that indicates, among other things, what it means to 'add' it, say), also glued to it.
13:21 mircea_popescu yeah and then interpreter bitches if wrong types, so it catches size issues by default.
13:22 mircea_popescu my model is... well, aptly put, stick shift. ie, even if dudes wanna bitch about lisp, because "c is faster", the above STILL APPLIES
13:25 * asciilifeform mutters something about naggum's bathtub catapult
13:26 mircea_popescu i must say candi_lustt made it obvious lisp is workable development. way the fuck faster than figuring out which stdio to include and dumb shit like that
13:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and picture if it had been on your actual comp.
13:27 asciilifeform (instead of uploading proggy repeatedly and waiting for output)
13:27 mircea_popescu pic related : http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-01-18.log.html#t22:58:43 and whole discussion
13:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no i liked that part.
13:27 mircea_popescu but this may just be me.
13:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it'd get quite painful for a large proggy.
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13:28 mircea_popescu large teams, small programs. not the other fucking way around.
13:28 mircea_popescu good brothel = many whores, small building. not vice-versa. that's called "beachfront property".
13:30 mircea_popescu incidentally, if the various dreppers etcs actually had any friends, the whole rot wouldn't exist in the first place.
13:31 mircea_popescu it's quite evident from their gestalt they're coding with flashlight under the covers.
13:31 asciilifeform maggots dun have plans, or objectives, they simply eat.
13:32 trinque nah, the idea that these guys are using this as a substitute for healthy human interaction is spot on.
13:32 trinque see the conferences, "social coding", hackathons, etc
13:32 mircea_popescu ayup.
13:32 mircea_popescu "i'll get everyone to do X!"
13:32 mircea_popescu dude... just get everyone to show up saturday night already, nevermind this dumb shit. buy some wine.
13:33 mircea_popescu "i'm so terrifying of talking to that cute wallflower i'ma revolutionize the $name like $name for $name instead!11"
13:34 mircea_popescu and in scandalous coincidence : me puts on pair of pants, at 3:30 pm. sticks hand in left pocket, out comes condom wrapper. sticks hand in right, out comes... different condom wrapper.
13:34 mircea_popescu i guess i haven't worn these since i was last on roof.
13:35 asciilifeform i thought mircea_popescu ends up with DShK shells in pockets when comes back from roof.
13:50 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605315 << yet shouldn't be overlooked that several folks came to play immediately when there was a shared repl available
13:50 a111 Logged on 2017-01-19 18:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd get quite painful for a large proggy.
13:50 trinque it made an arena. good people like those.
13:50 trinque and aside all other bullshit uses of "social coding", that ~was~
13:51 trinque one can see what was useful in the experiment and not get fixated on the particular implementation
13:56 * trinque has had plenty of good coding afternoons where one person drove keyboard and >=1 others hollered and pointed
13:57 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/tim-draper-theranos-targeted-by-conspiracy/ << Qntra - Tim Draper: Theranos Targeted By "Conspiracy"
~ 19 minutes ~
14:17 mircea_popescu nah, what'd i fire at
14:17 mircea_popescu trinque yeah, like cs for thinking people.
~ 2 hours 14 minutes ~
16:32 ben_vulpes for pete_dushenski on the topic of studded bike tires https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q5IYSrLFUY
~ 22 minutes ~
16:54 phf https://github.com/dekuNukem/fap80 z80 based computer
16:55 phf it uses the word "modern" a lot, but from cursory glance it doesn't look insane
16:59 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/cool-it-carol/ << Trilema - Cool it, Carol!
17:01 ben_vulpes FAP
17:01 ben_vulpes FAP FAP FAP
17:01 asciilifeform phf et al: actually this is example of TERRIBLE 'retrocomp' design
17:01 asciilifeform it offloads a megatonne of work onto a modern micro
17:01 asciilifeform is in no real 1980s sense 'fits in head'
17:04 phf well, it's a lispm kind of architecture, with a single central controller, and extension boards of various degrees of dirty. though i guess the real "core" here is the opaque STM32
~ 33 minutes ~
17:38 asciilifeform phf: aha. the z80 is ~decorative on such a box.
17:38 asciilifeform folx keep makin' these nonsense abortions.
17:39 phf i didn't know what stm32 was, i thought it was some PIC variation
17:39 asciilifeform and i can see why they do it, even buying ~one~, e.g., UART, today, is not easy
17:39 asciilifeform phf: arm
17:40 thestringpuller asciilifeform: is NSA-TRB down? started up an old node to sync... and get: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6m3GH/?raw=true
17:41 asciilifeform thestringpuller: it's up but blackholed
↖
17:41 asciilifeform (my log tail looks quite like thestringpuller's paste)
17:41 asciilifeform megatonne of 'socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0' etc.
17:44 asciilifeform phf, ben_vulpes : http://searle.hostei.com/grant/cpm/#Schematic << much better z80ism
17:44 asciilifeform (0 anachronisms)
17:44 asciilifeform and no, cf card is not anachronism, it runs in ata-compatibility mode
17:45 shinohai Perhaps of interest to mats http://www.ibtimes.co.in/iraq-retreating-isis-leaves-behind-unfinished-fighter-jet-mosul-712914
17:45 shinohai They were SO CLOSE
17:45 asciilifeform (d00d ~does~ offer a schematic for 'keyboard and vga' using modern micro, at the end of the page, though)
17:46 asciilifeform shinohai: jet ?!
17:46 asciilifeform reminds me of idiot joke from 1990s
17:47 asciilifeform ukr ministry of culture says: 'ancient ukrs had radio! we have proof'
17:47 asciilifeform interviewer: 'what's the proof'
17:47 asciilifeform ukr: 'our archaeologists have turned up no wires...'
17:47 trinque lol
17:47 shinohai xD
17:48 shinohai To me appears most of hull is cloth stretched over a frame, or are those wrinkles?
17:49 asciilifeform looks like honest attempt at a glider, possibly
17:50 asciilifeform 'we found no propeller! MUST BE JET'
17:50 asciilifeform why not ufo.
17:50 asciilifeform with antigrav motor.
17:59 asciilifeform phf: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/doc/ << lulzy, ALL of the building instructions for cmucl -- 404 !!
17:59 asciilifeform this thing makes ~my~ horrors look well-documented.
18:01 asciilifeform srsly, all 4 links under the 'Developer info' category, are duds
18:01 asciilifeform why the fuck even bother with having the other docs
18:01 asciilifeform if the motherfucker cannot be BUILT without whole day of reverse-engineering
18:02 phf well, that's my favorite one https://www.cons.org/cmucl/doc/crosscompile.html
18:03 asciilifeform l0l
18:03 asciilifeform 'To be written.'
18:03 asciilifeform y'know, this is how folx end up on a scaffold with mircea_popescu pissing down their neckstump
18:03 asciilifeform and i have 0 sympathy.
18:03 phf what "folks"?
18:04 asciilifeform 'developers'
18:04 asciilifeform 'open sores' folx.
18:04 phf again what "folks"?
18:04 asciilifeform #ifdef DEBUG_BAD_HEAP
18:04 asciilifeform /*
18:04 asciilifeform * For some reason x86 has a heap corruption problem. I (rtoy)
18:04 asciilifeform * have not been able to figure out how that occurs, but what is
18:04 asciilifeform * happening is that when a core is loaded, there is some static
18:04 asciilifeform * object pointing to an object that is on a free page. In normal
18:04 asciilifeform * usage, at startup there should be 4 objects in static space
18:04 asciilifeform * pointing to a free page, because these are newly allocated
18:04 asciilifeform * objects created by the C runtime. However, there is an
18:04 asciilifeform * additional object.
18:05 asciilifeform *
18:05 asciilifeform * I do not know what this object should be or how it got there,
18:05 asciilifeform * but it will often cause CMUCL to fail to save a new core file.
18:05 asciilifeform ^ save.c. this looks terrifying.
18:09 asciilifeform phf (or anybody else?) -- dare i ask, how the fuck does one BUILD IT
18:10 asciilifeform is the idea 'read the code for a month and then MAYBE you will realize in what order to build'
18:15 ben_vulpes dog if that's a jet fighter i'm the ceo of apple
18:16 asciilifeform fart-propelled
18:17 asciilifeform http://www.ljosa.com/~ljosa/doc/encycmuclopedia/devenv/README-build-instructions.txt << phf if this is current, then i am officially cured of all desire to have anything to do with the thing
18:19 asciilifeform travail arabe.
18:20 ben_vulpes i was certain that we'd done the 'omg cmucl compilation' lolz thread before; is this a time loop? where are picard and riker
18:20 asciilifeform !#s cmucl build
18:20 a111 5 results for "cmucl build", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cmucl%20build
18:21 ben_vulpes ah yes, 'twas adlai who brought do
18:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543330 << not so long ago.
18:21 a111 Logged on 2016-09-17 02:43 adlai: this is funny: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/cmucl-build/00_README but this is funnier: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/doc/crosscompile.html
18:21 phf even http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543331
18:21 a111 Logged on 2016-09-17 02:43 asciilifeform: ## Recompiling CMUCL is not an exact science... ##
18:21 asciilifeform looks like same result.
18:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543400 << here we go.
18:23 a111 Logged on 2016-09-17 02:57 mircea_popescu: how can you lot put up with these idiots ?
18:23 asciilifeform in fact we had the thread!!
18:28 mircea_popescu lol
18:31 mircea_popescu honeslty, should probably go with whatever either phf used to run btcbase or ben_vulpes used to run candi.
18:32 asciilifeform iirc both are on sbcl
18:32 asciilifeform which is ~unsuitable for 'metallization', see today's earlier thread.
18:32 mircea_popescu hm
18:32 asciilifeform (sbcl runs well today precisely because it is 'sharpened' for linux)
18:32 mircea_popescu "metallization" is way premature in any case.
18:33 asciilifeform aaaactually if sbcl, cmucl, or whichever lisptron, could be whittled down to 'get char', 'put char', 'malloc' -- could be on iron tonight.
18:33 phf nyef actually spent a lot of effort trying to put sbcl on raw hardware, and he's a competent hacker (he also did sbcl port to arm for example)
18:33 mircea_popescu but they can't.
18:33 asciilifeform phf: is this experiment documented somewhere?
18:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what i wanted to establish was the ~whynot~
18:34 mircea_popescu because dma and interrupts ; and bad memory addressing.
18:35 asciilifeform you can lose dma if you're willing to lose nic and video.
18:35 mircea_popescu the problem with "string" isn't there just to fuck with mp's ai bot.
18:35 mircea_popescu what "char" ?
18:35 asciilifeform octet from/to uart.
18:35 mircea_popescu if only.
18:35 asciilifeform it's enough to operate a very basic comp.
18:35 asciilifeform (quite enough for a forth, say.)
18:35 mircea_popescu this octet from/to uart doth not exist as such on extant hardware.
18:35 asciilifeform theoretically you can, e.g., host www on just an uart.
↖
18:36 phf asciilifeform: there are text files (he makes adequate technical logs of most of his efforts. i'm using his notes to recreate arm port for cmucl), but i won't be able to find them at the moment (i'm not on my main machine)
18:36 mircea_popescu theroetically you can lick your own anus.
18:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it exists, i have run number crunching routines this way.
18:36 phf i'm pretty sure he was doing around the same time as you were doing loper, so i'm surprised you haven't seen it. i think he might've been doing it under TUNES umbrella
18:36 asciilifeform boot sector loads a few 100 kB of hand-rolled code, and talks solely via uart.
18:36 asciilifeform you can do actual work this way.
18:37 mircea_popescu you will not "whittled down to 'get char', 'put char', 'malloc'"
18:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in point of fact, tinyscheme does.
18:37 asciilifeform but is unsuitable for different reason (it has no compiler, is a c proggy, cannot compile self)
18:37 mircea_popescu i don't recall, what was the objection to tinyscheme as the root ?
18:37 asciilifeform see above. it needs gcc.
18:37 mircea_popescu ahahah. so "in point of fact tinyscheme doesn't"
18:37 phf so far only person who wrote anything for tinyscheme is myself, and tinyscheme is more of a PoC than anything else. bignums for example were ~unreasonably~ expensive
18:38 asciilifeform phf: this is theoretically solvable. but it's a c proggy.
18:38 mircea_popescu phf was abortive experiment in eulora too.
18:40 phf "<nyef> (Speaking as someone who wrote his own standalone Forth and then used it to load a stripped-down hacked SBCL core on bare metal x86.)"
18:41 mircea_popescu was this in #lisp ?
18:41 phf actually i should probably track his notes down, but it might be easier to just ask him
18:41 phf yeah, 2010
18:41 asciilifeform ~somebody~ has to have 1) attempted this 2) not burned all of his work in fireplace in disillusioned despair
18:43 mircea_popescu #lisp is pretty fucking dead.
18:43 ben_vulpes aye
18:43 mircea_popescu for one thing who are the people there even ?
18:43 ben_vulpes occasionally i ask a question and someone answers
18:44 ben_vulpes "bike" is useful, "beach" is responsible for some amount of CLIM...
18:46 jurov asciilifeform: i think these somebodies went on to make their own lisp dialect, using python build system or jvm or llvm or somesuch
18:46 mircea_popescu http://lisphacker.com/projects/sbcl-os/how-it-works-2008-04-19.txt < at least part.
18:47 asciilifeform jurov: they may also have gone to the bottle, for all i care
18:47 asciilifeform jurov: i am interested strictly in the record re the relevant bits.
18:48 mircea_popescu i have nfi why it has to come in scattered 2 page text files
18:48 mircea_popescu they should hang kids in jr high by their ballsac until they learn to blog every day.
18:48 phf he used to have a top level domain with artifacts that he was producing. txt files of notes, diffs for sbcl etc
18:49 mircea_popescu yes but it's gone.
18:50 phf http://lisphacker.com/temp/lispos/os-0.9.14-m3.patch
18:51 mircea_popescu http://log.irc.tymoon.eu/freenode/lisp?from=2015-12-20T19 << there's a log, insanely shitty with too much js to run, but i think it may go back usefully.
18:51 asciilifeform poor sad nonvtronic patch. go and try to find WHAT he patched.
18:51 mircea_popescu phf that shitty "lisphacker.com" thing that spits the most obnoxious errors, really bitch, "no such key" ?
18:55 mircea_popescu !#s haverbeke
18:55 a111 0 results for "haverbeke", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=haverbeke
18:55 mircea_popescu !#s bridgewater
18:55 a111 3 results for "bridgewater", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bridgewater
18:56 mircea_popescu (nyef = alistair bridgewater, from the pw:rn subdirectorate of intel)
19:01 ben_vulpes pw:rn?
19:03 deedbot http://danielpbarron.com/2017/fuckgoats-for-sale/ << Daniel P. Barron - FUCKGOATS For Sale
19:03 mircea_popescu !~google pw:rn site:ed.org
19:03 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: No matches found.
19:03 mircea_popescu aww.
19:04 * asciilifeform bbl -- meat
19:04 mircea_popescu you knwo you should eat some bread and vegetables on occasion
↖
19:05 phf all that meat's what making you so angry
19:05 mircea_popescu he's angry ? seems more like incurably disdainful
19:10 phf hmm, i thought russian disdain is usually a lot colder, refined. sort of like nabokov talking about what make lolita appealing to the american public.
19:11 mircea_popescu anger's from the blood. what he's got, it's definitely bile.
19:15 mircea_popescu lol check that out alf, FUCKGOATS reselling as collector itamz lel
19:16 danielpbarron :D
~ 19 minutes ~
19:35 phf if you visit mit's open courseware, first link is on "Gender & Media: Collaborations in Feminism and Technology"
19:37 phf which brings me to my question, what's a good book on inorganic chemistry (or general chemistry)
↖
~ 15 minutes ~
19:52 mircea_popescu !~google costin d nenitescu, chimie anorganica
19:52 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Chimie generala nenitescu - Cumpara cu incredere de pe Okazii.ro.: <https://www.okazii.ro/cautare/chimie%2Bgenerala%2Bnenitescu.html>; Costin D . Nenițescu - Wikipedia: <https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costin_D._Neni%25C8%259Bescu>; Costin D . Nenitescu - Chimie anorganica - manual pentru licee de ...: <http://www.elefant.ro/carti/carti/chimie-anorganica-manual-pentru-licee-de-speciali
19:52 mircea_popescu ^ best ever.
19:53 mircea_popescu prolly saw 20 editions
20:06 mod6 evenin'
20:07 mircea_popescu yo
20:08 mod6 how goes?
20:08 mircea_popescu not bad! hutin' elusive snails.
20:09 mod6 aha nice!
20:09 mod6 they're out there.
20:09 mircea_popescu #lisp is more fucken dead than #bitcoin-otc ffs.
20:09 mod6 lol
20:09 mod6 we're creapin up on 450`000 blocks.
20:10 mircea_popescu aha
20:11 mircea_popescu "Mircea has got 8.000m ECu worth of remarkable eps" << go me.
20:11 mircea_popescu you're like a good luck charm mod6
20:11 mod6 haha, nice!
20:12 mod6 that is a LOT of eps, Sir.
20:12 mircea_popescu for srs
20:12 mod6 btw, i wanted to note that hanbot v. random .ar derp would have been an awesome battle to watch.
20:13 mod6 why would any one care who feeds what to a street-cat?
~ 15 minutes ~
20:29 shinohai /me waves to mod6 o/
20:31 mircea_popescu it's a woman thing.
20:31 mod6 hai shinohai
~ 27 minutes ~
20:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lol, i ~did~ wonder what he wanted with that crate.
20:59 asciilifeform neato danielpbarron .
21:02 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-20#1605492 << as (perhaps folx suspected) -- 'meat' is not necessarily to eat.
21:02 a111 Logged on 2017-01-20 00:04 mircea_popescu: you knwo you should eat some bread and vegetables on occasion
21:11 mircea_popescu even so. some fruit, something.
21:13 mircea_popescu and in vintage cuckolding, https://68.media.tumblr.com/1a363d9ea948bb00e8f8b10531568c6e/tumblr_ojzd0zg6NO1tju1f4o1_1280.jpg
~ 32 minutes ~
21:45 mod6 i just had this impression that alf was on atkins or something
21:45 asciilifeform lel
21:49 mircea_popescu which one is that one ? no pasta ? all pasta ?
21:49 mod6 all meat, no carbs type thing.
21:50 mircea_popescu wait you mean to tell me the keto dorks "reinvented" a fad diet from the 60s ?
21:50 asciilifeform 'meat' in asciilifeform's shorthand is simply any nonmaskable interrupt from meatspace.
21:50 mircea_popescu tsk tsk, and i thought it was so original
21:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no dude, it's literally roast beast, can't fool us.
21:50 asciilifeform can be!
21:50 mod6 i was at the deli the other day, buying up all the meats... and just remembering, and getting even pissed about the thought of some asswads substituting soy in for fat.
21:50 asciilifeform eq
21:50 asciilifeform ew
21:51 mircea_popescu this is a thing ?!
21:51 asciilifeform what next? solidol ?
21:51 mod6 we talked about how some this happened once upon a time in a socialist hell hole.
21:52 mod6 i'd get medieval on someone if they did that to my salami
21:52 mod6 don't fuck with a guys meat.
21:53 mircea_popescu a yeah
21:53 phf sometime in the early 2000s my family basically lived on what we called wolf diet. small bits and pieces, like nuts and fruit for two three days, but then once in three or four days we'd cook a giant steak or roastbeef or such. there was no reason for it, just sort of gravitated towards..
21:56 phf also the sbcl os patch, applies cleanly against sbcl_0_9_14, but is missing the forth bootstrap that nyef's talking about
21:56 asciilifeform that'd be problem.
21:56 phf indeed
21:56 asciilifeform (why did he need a whole forth?! why not just a few 100 ln of asm)
21:56 mircea_popescu yesterday was a 2 gallon pot of bolognese with smoked mozarella. today was 7 sushi rolls. this isn't counting the pastries, cookies, cocktails etc.
21:56 * asciilifeform implodes.
21:56 * mircea_popescu household goes through >100k calories / week and all the girls are dieting.
21:57 mod6 omg. i bet the bolognese is awesome.
21:58 phf girl couldn't figure out how i can eat so much (now) and not gain any weight was a mystery. few weeks ago a lightbulb "ooooh, it all goes to thinking!"
21:58 asciilifeform phf: i've spent last hr or so reading cmucl code, more or less at random, and am struck by the sheer proportion of scar tissue
21:58 asciilifeform (things that are there to work around $bug, which in turn stems from workaround of $bug2, etc)
21:59 mircea_popescu oya
21:59 asciilifeform makes trb look good.
21:59 mircea_popescu phf enjoy it while it lasts bub, i had the same thing in my 20s/early 30s
21:59 asciilifeform now, it isn't as if i had a better cltron to offer.
22:00 mod6 oh, yeah. almost forgot... having the feather stems in the pillows is the worst. i refuse to use them for that reason. nothing worse than those things poking you in the face.
22:00 asciilifeform also the thing is chock-full of os-specific conditionals
22:00 phf asciilifeform: i wonder how much of scar was removed in sbcl. i know while newman was still hacking, he removed a lot of gunk. i vaguely suspect that cmucl can't be improved without tackling the bootstrapping problem, which is probably going to look very similar to sbcl's solution
22:01 asciilifeform lol holyshit sbcl is still on soresforge?!!!
22:03 mod6 is there any big hang-ups about chicken scheme?
22:04 asciilifeform the c?
22:04 asciilifeform gotta ditch gcc.
22:04 asciilifeform given as it only runs on unixlikes. (and is a massive pig)
22:04 mod6 well, yeah, but arn't all scheme interpreters built with C?
22:04 asciilifeform not, e.g., 'dream'
22:04 phf no in scheme land you have mit scheme and scheme48
22:05 asciilifeform and conceivably one could hand-compile tinyscheme.
22:05 asciilifeform (ideally scheme-on-iron would be a very few kb of heavily-massaged asm)
22:06 mod6 that'd be neat
22:06 asciilifeform mod6: likewise, there are cltrons (e.g., sbcl) that -- at least in theory -- can compile selves to x86
22:07 mod6 'cl' is like 'lisp' formal right?
22:07 asciilifeform common lisp specifically
22:07 mod6 ah
22:07 asciilifeform (there are many different lisps, starting from the 1958 one)
22:08 mod6 <+phf> no in scheme land you have mit scheme and scheme48 << with these, which one is more preferred? or why choose one over the other?
22:10 phf there's a lineage of lisp, which is significantly mutually compatible. LISP, maclisp, interlisp, zetalisp. common lisp is a standardization attempt on top of those. for example if you take eliza code (written for LISP 1.5) you can make it run on common lisp without any transformations (need to provide some missing forms though)
22:11 phf this is not really the case with scheme, T, clojure, etc.
22:11 asciilifeform ftr phf is the one and only serious lisp d00d i ever ran across who capitalized.
22:12 mod6 capitalized in the sense that most lispers live in the park in san fransisco?
22:12 asciilifeform nono
22:12 phf kek
22:12 asciilifeform capitalized LISP
22:12 mod6 ah
22:13 asciilifeform phf: to be fair, the main (other than lisp1-ness) semantic diff b/w scheme and lisp1.5 was static scope. which made its way into cl.
22:13 asciilifeform (which, to nitpick, has selectable scope. but defaults to static)
22:13 mod6 what's the meaning there, is LISP the "proper" lisp for an actual lisp machine?
22:13 asciilifeform mod6: nah
22:13 phf well, i think, if you're trying to communicate clearly, LISP means thing that mccarthy wrote, and then spinoffs of that, LISP 1.5, 1.6
22:14 asciilifeform mod6: it was from early literature, and from dark ages machines with no shift key. and so folx who learn of the existence of lisp from encyclopaedia in school, tend to LISP
22:14 phf then you have a version of LISP for project mac called MACLISP, also capitalized. but it shares so much with LISP that you can call it LISP too
22:15 mod6 ahh
22:15 mod6 what is the general feeling of 'common lisp' within the republic?
22:16 phf these days when you say "lisp" you usually either mean an equivalent of "algol" or "common lisp" specifically
22:16 mod6 (i ask all of the questions because im simply curious, and it seems to be such a broad range of different dialects, if that's even a way to put it)
22:16 asciilifeform mod6: i have nfi what 'general feeling' would mean, there is no homogeneous writhing mass here
22:16 asciilifeform but you can ask specific people.
22:17 asciilifeform to asciilifeform commonlisp is rather like i imagine an old, nagging wife is for old man
22:17 asciilifeform defective in all kinds of ways but it isn't as if another is to be had.
22:17 mod6 hmm. ok.
22:18 asciilifeform (nor does the old far necessarily deserve anything else)
22:18 asciilifeform *fart
22:20 asciilifeform mod6: scheme is neat on paper (~50 pg. exhaustive spec! at least before the poetterings got to it in rev. 6) but you will find that it is ~impossible to program in the language that appears in that document
22:20 asciilifeform without megatonne of 'libraries' that make the overall mass of the system quickly approach and exceed that of cl
22:21 phf scheme48 comes closets to sane lisp imo, it was written on a lisp machine, and comes with a lot of very sane batteries (the library is clearly inspired by cl)
22:21 mod6 would it be a worthy project for someone to start to write some essential libs for tinyscheme?
22:21 asciilifeform mod6: theoretically. but, as phf observed earlier in this thread, certain entirely necessary things are impractical to retrofit to it (e.g., bignum)
22:22 mod6 i did see that. and yah, that sucks. for lack of a better way to put it.
22:24 phf if you take any of the canonical bignum-in-lisp implementations and port them to tinyscheme, multiplication of one 5 digit number by another 5 digit number takes ~seconds~. optimization is left as an exercise. i suspect some of the routines can be implemented as opcodes.. you could also take that numeric thing asciilifeform extracted out of gnupg and bolt it to tinyscheme as a PoC
22:24 mod6 would that alone be worth experimenting with, just to see how expensive it really would be?
22:24 asciilifeform phf: you could, but it would be terrible
22:24 asciilifeform megaturd of c crapolade.
22:26 asciilifeform mod6: i can't speak for others, but i specifically am interested in a ~0-c~ box.
22:27 phf mod6: i did a poc while experimenting with http://btcbase.org/patches/phf-shiva-swank, but i only gotten as far as addition and multiplication. i think taking a stab at writing a canonical bignum-in-scheme is a good idea
22:27 asciilifeform so, if it's an x86 box, this means that no opcode executes on it, from cradle to grave, that didn't come out of (hypothetical) compiler with mandatory bounds/type checks.
22:30 mircea_popescu mod6 there';s a bot you can fuck around with if you wanna try it out.
22:30 mircea_popescu very far from any sort of anything.
22:30 mod6 yeah, i saw some of that. neat stuff.
22:30 asciilifeform phf: scheme48 1.9.2 is >300,000 line of c!
22:30 mod6 phf: yeah, might be a worthwhile project.
22:30 asciilifeform or hm
22:31 asciilifeform 100K
22:31 asciilifeform 100k ln.
22:32 mircea_popescu phf the problem with the bolt-ons being that why are you bolting on, use the language of the boltons instead.
~ 20 minutes ~
22:52 mod6 these automated tests could use some serious cleanup and refactoring -- they work fine, just not very pretty, etc.
22:52 mod6 but I'm so glad I wrote these.
~ 26 minutes ~
23:18 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8844F6A2F2BDAC790E9EB53B7E7D7FFDC1BBFB176B97D45FB6C6810C18D16D63 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1415...7823 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '194.25.14.52 (ssh-rsa key from 194.25.14.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
23:18 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8844F6A2F2BDAC790E9EB53B7E7D7FFDC1BBFB176B97D45FB6C6810C18D16D63 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1530...0617 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '194.25.14.52 (ssh-rsa key from 194.25.14.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
23:21 mircea_popescu word.
~ 20 minutes ~
23:42 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
23:42 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: {"blockcount":449062} | Current Difficulty: 3.36899932795E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 449567 | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
23:45 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
23:45 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 893.3, vol: 10688.44298373 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 875.0, vol: 5522.72558 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 891.0, vol: 13106.35779268 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 885.889845, vol: 330382.74660000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 889.969, vol: 2631.19989002 | Volume-weighted last average: 886.156920849
23:48 asciilifeform re earlier thread, http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/urscheme/ << somewhat interesting
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