Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-01-15 | 2017-01-17 → ↓
00:27 phf i knew i read that somewhere..
~ 17 minutes ~
00:45 BingoBoingo !~tslb
00:45 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Time since last block: 12 minutes and 0 seconds
~ 19 minutes ~
01:04 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9F65ADB8AB92731776A305A4C57D79BD5DF2360946DF58E0CC5F3C8DB1D9CBA5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1683...0103 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.7.232.168 (ssh-rsa key from 217.7.232.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (pd907e8a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. DE)
01:04 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9F65ADB8AB92731776A305A4C57D79BD5DF2360946DF58E0CC5F3C8DB1D9CBA5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1779...5337 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.7.232.168 (ssh-rsa key from 217.7.232.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (pd907e8a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. DE)
~ 18 minutes ~
01:22 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/16/a-humble-auctioneer-and-his-record-setting-first-auction/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A humble auctioneer and his record-setting first auction.
~ 5 hours 53 minutes ~
07:16 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yeh much better nao
07:16 mircea_popescu phf yeah, it's from last year. what HADNT come out until now is that the iranians got us naval cipher books.
07:17 mircea_popescu in the best of lights it takes the us navy ONE YEAR to replace those.
07:17 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no, take that back, now comments are 5 words wide eugh.
~ 30 minutes ~
07:48 mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2016/07/lastpass-sucks-always-sucked/#comment-84397 << this is how passwords for webshits should be done.
07:52 mircea_popescu and btw notice the repeating bits : "gIC0K" ; "jYz" ; "ZT" "Nj" etc etc.
07:53 mircea_popescu that last 2 letter combo recurs 4 times! considering it's base64, odds should be 1/4096 which makes 4 occurences in 177 a little rich.
07:55 davout mircea_popescu: your base64'ing some hex
07:56 mircea_popescu so ?
07:56 mircea_popescu oh textual hex nm
07:56 mircea_popescu echo "hillary2016trilema.com" | sha512sum -b | base64 << correct.
07:58 davout still textual hex
07:58 mircea_popescu wtf.
07:58 mircea_popescu whai doesn't binary switch switch!
07:58 davout "echo "hillary2016qntra.net" | sha512sum | xxd -r -p | base64 --wrap=0"
07:58 davout drops base64 newlines too
07:59 mircea_popescu WHAT THE FUCK "read in binary" dude srsly ? who whore these things.
07:59 mircea_popescu coreutils my left foot.
08:00 mircea_popescu Written by Ulrich Drepper, Scott Miller, and David Madore.
08:00 davout also "echo -n" will not append a newline at the end of the string to be hashed, which might be best, otherwise you could end up in a world of wtf trying to reproduce it with some other setup
08:01 mircea_popescu now let's do a practical exercise : produce a google query which results in the source of drepper's sha512
08:01 mircea_popescu and don't give me the "but mp, depends on implementation" bullshit, because EVIDENTLY IT DOESN'T.
08:01 mircea_popescu everyone uses the same piece of shit written by the same piece of shit.
08:06 mircea_popescu (it's at http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=tree ; but google is STILL USELESS, notwithstanding http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582100 )
08:06 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 15:38 asciilifeform: it is very easy to piss on google when you don't have to do anything technical with own hands.
08:08 mircea_popescu http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=tree;f=src;h=6e6cdb2f890ae17d51ce5ad7ee265336832754ba;hb=HEAD << why exactly this includes md6sum but not sha sum anything is of course a discussion best left for another time, once MAGA.
08:11 jurov some derpsites have litmitation on pw length, or used chars. Or they get rebranded or force you to change the pw or you want alt account, or...
08:11 mircea_popescu jurov so "echo "hillary2016qntra.netaltaccount" | sha512sum | xxd -r -p | base64 --wrap=0"
08:11 jurov It';s hopeless, no fixed salt+algo can account for everything
08:11 mircea_popescu the output is base64 which i doubt they can narrow further, and if they want fewer you jsut truncate
08:12 mircea_popescu it just did.
08:12 jurov No you have to remember how did you name the alt
08:12 mircea_popescu suppose you always name your alts altone alttwo etc ; or any other fixed scheme
08:13 jurov And where did you truncate it
08:13 mircea_popescu where the site asked.
08:13 mircea_popescu see, it complains, and so you know.
08:13 jurov Oh, you think websites helpfully say how long the want the pw to be? :)
08:14 mircea_popescu (but really most wwwshits just silently truncate your pw ; unless of course you use their own www form for some reason)
08:15 jurov and actually, some require non-alphanum characters
08:16 mircea_popescu base64 does minus and underscore iirc
08:17 jurov see your hillary example
08:17 mircea_popescu $ echo -n "hillary2016qntra.net" | sha512sum | xxd -r -p | base64 --wrap=0
08:17 mircea_popescu 42S5KotQ1F1d0eL7+xYfMDu4vmMzSzU3c343bgwlSNI4Ht7YfhhDdD2tTdIxAMmPtcOg1509EkhIsMRMLvbdaA==
08:18 mircea_popescu now it looks proper, ty danielpbarron
08:18 mircea_popescu davout *
08:18 jurov i wish it was all contrived... but started getting these nasty flashbacks on various webshit pw requirements, yuck
08:19 davout yeah, the issue is that some will *require* a fucking dollar sign, other ones will *prohibit* it
08:20 davout also "can't have same password as your previous one" derpage
08:20 mircea_popescu now i made a string of qntra comments lol
08:20 mircea_popescu davout who requires a $ ?!
08:20 davout (which obviously leads to $password$n, with $n increasing monotonically)
08:21 davout "you must have speshul characters in your passwerd"
08:21 mircea_popescu + <
08:21 jurov i'd rather have gpg key autogenerated from some salt instead, that is guaranteed to never run into webshit derpage
08:21 davout right
08:22 mircea_popescu hey, i'd rather the web went back to what it can do, and forgot all this "logins, because state over stateless, because PROGRESS MAKES IDIOCY POSSIBLE!!1"
08:23 mircea_popescu in other words dude the sha512 in coreutils 8.26 is the lulz.
08:24 mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mT2R0/?raw=true and other such wonders.
08:25 mircea_popescu sorry about the paste, i'd like to reference like a civilised person, but gnu isn't quite there yet. perhaps in another century or two.
08:25 mircea_popescu and i mean this literally, their web-accessible coreutils/lib/ is empty ; gotta fish it out off the ftp zips
~ 25 minutes ~
08:51 mircea_popescu and in other google lulz : https://archive.is/ykPaj
08:52 mircea_popescu everything BUT the article. including every article that mentions it by name (such as through the latest articles list). but not IT!
08:52 mircea_popescu and supposedly this is done without (bad) manual intervention, somehow.
08:54 davout i get it as first result fwiw
08:56 mircea_popescu rly ?
08:59 davout http://i.imgur.com/zuuNM4V.png
09:00 davout interdastingly, the archive link from ten minutes ago comes second
09:01 mircea_popescu weird.
09:01 mircea_popescu oh, because string matches but domain doesn't see.
~ 27 minutes ~
09:29 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/google-ycombinates-also/ << Trilema - Google Ycombinates also!
~ 55 minutes ~
10:24 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski you can alt-enter for full screen
10:25 mircea_popescu else there's a config file.
~ 22 minutes ~
10:47 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski listen ye historian of language : your footnotes are somehow broken so that xxiv is still displayed as xiv.
~ 27 minutes ~
11:14 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Why aren't links on you page "link" colored?
11:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/n05fI/?raw=true
11:27 mircea_popescu got it
11:32 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://realclimatescience.com/2017/01/noaa-us-temperatures-are-fake-news/
11:32 mircea_popescu lmao obviously.
11:37 asciilifeform http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6758 << in quite other lulz.
11:38 asciilifeform (esr, mega-specialist in 'half-grasping' concepts, does not disappoint)
11:42 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/antique-retrocinations/ << Trilema - Antique Retrocinations
11:47 asciilifeform lulzy comments, also, e.g., 'While I don’t think he’s a “white supremacist” as such “off-line” in his essays under the pseudonym Moldbug, the travails of Curtis Yarvin as a pure hacker are illuminating, to the point I’m pretty sure they’ve killed any chance his Urbit might have in the so called marketplace of ideas.'
11:49 asciilifeform http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6758#comment-1795041 << a winner.
11:54 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: footnotes padding was just askew. fixed now. and thx too for the full screen tip.
11:59 mircea_popescu yee
12:08 asciilifeform 'The extent to which Linus’s and others’ foul mouths are tolerated on official community fora is still considered a problem'
12:08 asciilifeform didjaknow.
12:08 mircea_popescu hurr.
12:08 mircea_popescu "is considered" by who the fuck.
12:08 mircea_popescu check it out, linus is "tolerated" nao ?
12:08 asciilifeform clearly, the vox populi, etc.
12:09 asciilifeform aha, tolerated!
12:09 mircea_popescu oh, i get it, the "vox populi" as per the 200k wash dc niggers ?
12:09 asciilifeform probably more of the 1M sv ones
12:09 mircea_popescu funny how ready nobodies are to misrepresent themselves as teh owners of world.
12:10 asciilifeform (dc apparatus proper is still busy with the 1990s-era rackets, e.g., funding of imaginary war machines, war on substances, etc)
12:12 asciilifeform http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/01/11/sjws-tech-conference-political-diversity/ << linked from.
12:13 asciilifeform 'In June 2015, the hacker Elia Shito publicly tweeted skepticism about transgenderism in children. Although Elia tweeted from his own personal account, Ehmke tried to get Elia Shito ejected from the open source community he participated in.'
12:13 * asciilifeform has never heard of any of the folx in this piece, save for c. yarvin aka mr mold
12:13 mircea_popescu skepticism as in "it's fucking insane to not fuck children if you're going to pump them full of sex-drugs" ?
12:15 asciilifeform the point, to the extent there is one, is not even to specifically mutilate the childrenz (it is only one of many dr.mengele projects in the works) but to shoot the dogs that cannot resist biting
12:16 asciilifeform a great many of the seemingly purposeless atrocities of the left could make sense as 'dog-kicking'.
12:16 * mircea_popescu doesn't feel particularily shot.
12:20 mircea_popescu how do you get "ejected" from an open source community anyway ? they're not going to merge your fixes anymore ? they're going to merge them but pretend they got them from obama / whatever-fashionable-nigger instead ? they're going to not merge anythingf seeing how you don't do anything anyway but ... no longer hurr durr with you ?
12:20 mircea_popescu it's not like the "open source communities" have much of a notion of identity anyway
12:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is not mega-mystery. they... let in the vermin you've been keeping out. and project turns into, e.g., firefox.
12:21 asciilifeform libreboot. etc.
12:22 mircea_popescu and so ? you just continue what you were doing.
12:22 asciilifeform what would that look like, in, say, linus's case ?
12:22 mircea_popescu maybe we've all been "ejected from the open source community we participated in" aka prb ?
12:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform entirely indistinguishable from what's going on right now, neh ?
12:23 mircea_popescu for all you know he's been ejected from ~5000 prlinuxen also.
12:23 mircea_popescu one a minute in fact, why not ?
12:23 asciilifeform linux is actually a direly centralized thing, because of the device racket
12:23 asciilifeform (consider why, e.g., netbsd, has not displaced it, even for our applications)
12:23 trinque in fact there's mention of a linux "fork" somewhere in or beyond those comments, can't be arsed to pull up again
12:24 mircea_popescu so nvidia will "eject linus from the open source project he was working on" and not release their driver, and linus will tell them to get fucked.
12:24 mircea_popescu this apparently already happened.
12:24 asciilifeform btw anyone who has tried to port a linux device driver (from recent years) to an un-linuxlike os, will know what i am talking about: they are 'glued with broken glass', and it is not in any sense trivial.
12:24 asciilifeform often ~more~ difficult than working from data sheet / leaked specs !
12:25 asciilifeform (how?? -- they aren't self-contained, but relay on a titanic rat's nest of #include functionality, e.g., interrupt stack)
12:26 asciilifeform situation quite reminiscent of gcc.
12:26 asciilifeform it was never anything other than obvious that -- in practice, in the field -- the open sores folx don't think much of this 'free sharing' thing.
12:27 mircea_popescu certainly not the esr and other usg tools.
12:27 asciilifeform not rms, or linus, either.
12:27 asciilifeform they are quite happy to glue with broken glass.
12:27 asciilifeform and to deliberately centralize around own arse.
12:28 mircea_popescu rms certainly had a large pile of that.
12:28 mircea_popescu i suppose your argument that linus' toleration of "linux foundation", redhat & debian etc is tantamount to exactly same.
12:28 asciilifeform 'but oh noez, if i make the acorns MOVABLE, little squirrels will come and take'em in all directions'
12:29 trinque in the gcc thread, wasn't this considered to be gcc's only defense?
12:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not only the malodorous phoundations, but the very architecture of linux, with the massive #include interdependencies, and the lack of demand for HUMAN-READABLE specs when device drivers are submitted
12:29 trinque "cannot be moved by sheer mass"
12:29 mircea_popescu it was ; but in a very naive sort of way, ie, "if you think that's how yo udefend you already lost long ago"
12:29 asciilifeform trinque: it is in fact its only defense.
12:29 mircea_popescu see "apple" thread recently.
12:29 trinque aha, just poking it for the benefit of logs. it's a sad state to be in.
12:29 mircea_popescu ie http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594887
12:29 a111 Logged on 2016-12-31 18:20 mircea_popescu: but not just llvm - the whole world exists, and it produces things such as "'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend tha
12:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in honesty, i don't think anyone who came before had the intelligence / intellectual wherewithal to realise what the standards should be.
12:30 asciilifeform possible
12:30 mircea_popescu as shocking as that statement may be, it would appear true. everyone else was simply too dumb to understand you want to mandate shitting in toilet.
12:31 mircea_popescu if it is true, then it can't be much of a criterion retrospectively.
12:34 mircea_popescu oh that's what it is, "conferences" specifically. dude... i have nfi why anyone with any sort of qualification would actually appear at one of these. for one thing, they don't pay. for another thing, they are about on 1980s soviet level of amenties, fucking hell ima brownbag food because i don't eat burger king ?
12:34 mircea_popescu who the fuck eats the us workman's buffet crap and also is a professional in any field ?
12:35 asciilifeform to briefly revisit upstack, linux as we have it now is a direly and fatally centralized, in the worst possible sense, item: to the extent it runs on in-production iron at all, it is because some stingy but present support exists from the vendors, and from the megaconglomerates (rathead et al). if withdrawn, linux turns into openbsd overnight.
12:35 asciilifeform the days when amateurs wrote linux device drvrs on weekends, are long gone.
12:35 mircea_popescu tbh i kinda miss those devices. i'd much rather have 9 pin printer than the current malfunctioning atrocities.
12:36 asciilifeform i not only miss'em, but act on the impulse and... install'em
12:36 asciilifeform but this has down-sides.
12:37 asciilifeform (chiefly in that they are a 'nonrenewable resource'.)
12:37 mircea_popescu all artefacts are renewable.
12:37 asciilifeform theoretically.
12:37 asciilifeform (where do i get damascus steel??)
12:38 mircea_popescu myeah.
12:38 asciilifeform and mircea_popescu's top hat !
12:38 * asciilifeform recently dug around for the facts behind the hatter's plush thing, and found nothing but pediwikia-copies-of-copies-of-copies-x1000
12:38 mircea_popescu yup.
12:38 mircea_popescu the webternet is ~useless.
12:39 mircea_popescu o hey, esr redefines nigger as "political carpetbagger". dork, to redefine word must use shorter variant. no longer alternative ever prevails in practice.
12:40 mircea_popescu and lords are now "elders" in his ad-hoc "i've not read #trilema i just rewrite what comes to me from the spheres"
12:41 asciilifeform the lulzy bit re esr is that he appointed himself 'elder' in 1980s! of an atlantis that had by that time long ago sunk deep beneath the sea (mit)
12:41 mircea_popescu aaanyway. it's kind-of funny to read tmsr rewrites by john smiths.
12:41 asciilifeform and there was -- apparently -- no one left to say 'eh..no, you weren't there, and did ~0'
12:42 mircea_popescu "Second: show me your code. I want to see URLs to public repositories with your commits in them. (OpenHub statistics will do for a first cut.) Your credibility goes up with commit volume and number of different projects. and especially with the number of other people you have collaborated with."
12:42 mircea_popescu aaahahaha ok.
12:42 mircea_popescu see kiddies, this is why "rewriting in your own words and pretending you never read it here" doesn't work.
12:42 asciilifeform sorta the fundamental problem with 'john smiths', bottle-shakers.
12:43 asciilifeform 'oooh i found a Warm Iron Thing in the taiga, let's break it open and get the magic out'
12:43 asciilifeform 'it glows so blue!'
12:43 mircea_popescu myeah
12:45 mircea_popescu anyway, i guess it's the best he can do, with what he has. which is sad but then again what can you expect. the goat - grazes.
12:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ever meet the d00d in person ?
12:46 mircea_popescu nope.
12:46 asciilifeform he's insufferable. in the 12yo 'i am NINJA!1111' sense.
12:46 mircea_popescu how old is he, like 60something by now ?
12:47 asciilifeform srsly he gave a talk, i fughet about what nao, at an sf b00k lovers thing, and spend 20min on His Great Achievements, and My Code Is Running On Your Cell Phone Guaranteed, etc.
12:47 mircea_popescu i can only imagine what the next generation imbeciles, eich and andreessen and so forth will be like when they're 60.
12:47 asciilifeform but yeah he's not a young fella, walks with a cane.
12:50 asciilifeform http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gpl-sucker-punch << oblig re esr.
12:52 mircea_popescu i don't even recall what this references
12:52 mircea_popescu but the notion of having versions on a license... good god.
12:52 asciilifeform it's moar about esr's approach to life than about gpl3.
13:06 * mircea_popescu stopped paying attention re gpl sometime around "afero"
13:06 mircea_popescu or w/e the client-server bullshit was
13:11 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
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13:18 mircea_popescu and in lulzy ancient stuff : http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/30/esr_interview.html interviewer (random nobody) contrasts sony using netbsd for the psp and people finding out because they put an unlinked text file on their website (as per license obligation) which was then found whereas they advertised the shit out of running linux for the ps3 in the terms of "WE THE PEOPLE made this be".
13:18 mircea_popescu he literally imagines that the difference isn't for the obvious reason (usg decided to push x rather than y) but for some sort of self-aggrandizing "it's something we did which unwittingly made the cave walls move this way".
13:24 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6265 << IN other Lunix
13:30 mircea_popescu epic.
13:31 mircea_popescu us president shouldn't be recognized by anyone as a matter of course anyway.
13:31 mircea_popescu should be fun to see how the dc 200k turn ariund the whole "tax resistors are nutty" argument once it's a case of "president resistors are heros".
13:32 * mircea_popescu polishes his http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ for the day.
13:38 mats http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-other-side-of-the-coin-the-russians-in-chechnya
13:48 mircea_popescu anyways, to round off the whole linux/bsd, esr/rms/etc angle : at any point the Moterhood (be it implemented in practice as "the USG" or "the public opinion" or "the church of England" or whatever the fuck - there will exist a conclave of the lazy, stupid and covetous, and it will be somewhat politically influential and appear VERY politically influential much like to the small children the mother appears truly awesome in her
13:49 mircea_popescu endless powers) will perceive "those crazy kids" by degrees dangerous. as a practical imperative it will apply some of its resources towards coopting some ; and towards combatting some others.
13:49 mircea_popescu in the history of computing it so happened that it picked to coopt linux. what the people involved did or didn't do has exactly nothing of interest to do with this ; and "studying history" in the sense of trying to divine what the favoured son did or didn't do so you too could share in the bounty is insanity exactly of the ilk the statement suggests.
13:50 mircea_popescu nevermind why mommy didn't love you ; she wouldn't have fucked you anyway, and she'd have sucked at it if she had fucked you. forget all that, nobody cares, go find better behaved womenz an' make your own harem.
13:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik the ~only serious lever remaining is hardware.
13:56 mircea_popescu and hence apple.
13:57 asciilifeform well, nintendoization (crapple most certainly did not invent the practice, nor even pioneered it)
13:57 mircea_popescu (note how "everyone" ~YOU HEAR ABOUT~ is trying to make "the next airbnb" ; not the next apple. there's a reason mother's lullaby goes the way it goes, and that reason mostly has to do with mommy's fear of rape)
13:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the ~only reason john smith behaviour survives is that mommy never wants to pick the original, because think of the power imbalance.
13:58 mircea_popescu so it'll always pick a tedious re-doer.
13:58 asciilifeform esp. when original is a filthy and ill-predictable foreign devil.
13:59 mircea_popescu or in proper terms, especially when the original is actually bigger than her.
13:59 asciilifeform (notice that crapplebook-pro is not made by not only nintendo, but also not by sony)
13:59 mircea_popescu most animals, including amoeba, have enough sense to not try and ingest larger items.
13:59 mircea_popescu http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/an-actual-woman << not even terrible.
14:00 mircea_popescu pity nobody picked up the idea from http://qntra.net/2015/11/president-hussein-bahamas-ends-national-security-speech-with-happy-thanksgiving/ and turned it into a weekly or something. i'm sure it'd have been huge.
14:01 mircea_popescu but then again i'm sure there's ~no creative people out there, so.
14:01 mircea_popescu "the best argument against open source is a five minute interaction with the average internet dog."
14:02 asciilifeform 'the average dog' is not involved.
14:02 asciilifeform it is a very small kennel of handful of dogs.
14:02 mircea_popescu yeah, who's gonna write comics, the president of nbc ?
14:04 asciilifeform btw there is one possibly interesting detail. there appears to be a large (how large, i have nfi) set of folks who publish ~actual~ work openly (recently i was on a kick of collecting 6502 and z80 design variations, adapted for present-day component availability for glue logic) and found a wealth of quality (as in, you lay it out on breadboard and it WORX) material. with multi-decade (yes) discussion.
14:04 asciilifeform 'shadow' open sores, you could call it
14:04 mircea_popescu aha.
14:04 asciilifeform they do not get invited to turdmeister conferences.
14:04 asciilifeform nor printed in shitcoin magazine.
14:04 asciilifeform nor any phoundation funds.
14:04 asciilifeform nor rathead employs.
14:04 mircea_popescu you mean "they have been excluded from the open source communities they were contributing to" don't you ?
14:04 asciilifeform somethinglikethat.
14:04 mircea_popescu i'm sure they care.
14:05 asciilifeform they've no reason to care, they have own wot.
14:05 asciilifeform but point is that i needed a very long and sharp drill to penetrate earth's crust, to find that they existed.
14:05 mircea_popescu certainly if your drill consists of google, as per ... today's amusements.
14:05 asciilifeform and overall flavour is quite 'catv'
14:06 asciilifeform folx who stew in own juices for years, tend to drift off into catvdom.
14:06 mircea_popescu yes, the fact that competent engineers tend to be poorly socialised is the major weakness of engineering competence.
14:06 mircea_popescu that tendency doesn't have to last, though, and it certainly needn't be nurtured.
14:07 asciilifeform one fundamental imho problem is that engineering, in age of collapse, is fundamentally act of madness.
14:07 asciilifeform sorta like being an architect in year 700.
14:07 mircea_popescu i dun see it.
14:09 asciilifeform i cannot speak for the folx mentioned above, but for me the appeal of, e.g., 6502, or of (pure 'sea of gates', a la FUCKGOATS) fpga work, is that there is 0 shit-in-the-dough
14:09 asciilifeform no 'libraries', no jwz.
14:10 asciilifeform but the amount of this kind of work ~anyone ever sees when working in industry, is ~0.
14:10 asciilifeform so to go into the profession with this expectation, any of it, is madness.
14:10 asciilifeform it is like becoming astrologer (today, not in 1500s) because you like to look through telescope.
14:10 asciilifeform astrologer today does not look in any scopes.
14:11 asciilifeform just runs msword script.
14:11 mircea_popescu if someone became an astrologer today who did look through them, they'd have plenty of customers.
14:11 asciilifeform eh lemonmarket.
14:11 mircea_popescu there's always a sprout of veblen goods in every lemon markety
14:11 mircea_popescu that's how manhattan island got sold.
14:11 asciilifeform there is, but engineer's notion of how to make working veblenator is typically worth 0.
14:12 mircea_popescu even among subhuman horde there's some taste for the refined.
14:12 mircea_popescu mwhell.
14:16 mircea_popescu in other news, this strip is actually a perfect primer for things nobody cares about these days, but were still "the issues" before osama pulled america's pants and fucked it into its present us shape.
14:16 mircea_popescu anyone interested in getting computing, 1990s to 2005 or so is more than welcome to read it, follow the competently provided references, and there it is.
14:16 mircea_popescu back when people still publsihed in magazines and ~nobody had a cellphone and so on.
14:17 mircea_popescu pcmag, seriously ? im surprised the website is even up anymore.
14:18 mircea_popescu http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1838244,00.asp << asp. do you even know what asp is ?
↖
14:18 mircea_popescu (yes, .net started life as asp.net)\
14:19 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/president-reject-hillary-rodham-clinton-kills-22-jobs/ << Qntra - President Reject Hillary Rodham Clinton Kills 22 Jobs
14:22 mircea_popescu http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code << epic.
14:32 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-16#1603985 << pretty lulzy. recall when lessig made about-face, went off to 'fight corruption in washington, instead of tech wankery' ?
14:32 a111 Logged on 2017-01-16 19:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1838244,00.asp << asp. do you even know what asp is ?
14:33 asciilifeform one of the reasons i still, despite everything, have > 0 respect for rms, is that of all of these figures, he never had 'about-face' moment.
↖
14:33 asciilifeform pretty much same d00d today as in 1985.
14:33 asciilifeform (for better ~and~ worse)
14:34 asciilifeform rms never went 'i'ma make exception because 9/11' or 'i'ma make exception because 100mil in rathead toiletpaper stock'
14:45 mircea_popescu well... it IS pretty funny to watch 2016 ers talk about "political activists" or w/e.
14:45 mircea_popescu what the fuck is he, or what, nobody can remember 1996 ?
14:46 jurov http://deadstate.org/i-no-longer-have-to-be-politically-correct-gop-politician-arrested-after-grabbing-a-woman-in-her-genital-area/
14:47 shinohai https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2StdqJXEAEp9yU.jpg <<< Monday motivation, ru style
14:52 mircea_popescu from behind even!
15:04 mircea_popescu http://perens.com/ << bruce perens apparently still blogs.
15:06 mircea_popescu http://perens.com/blog/2016/12/04/vandenberg-viewing/ perhaps of interest to the rocketry enthusiasts
~ 38 minutes ~
15:44 asciilifeform 'Vandenberg is a high-security area. Nuclear missile bases, spy satellites, missile defense radars and other classified things are there, there’s also a Federal prison next door. Vandenberg is the one polar-orbit space launch site for the whole country, and thus must stay operational for the security and defense of our country.'
15:44 asciilifeform lel
15:45 asciilifeform http://www.terrastories.com/bearings/vandenberg-abandoned-missile << linked from site as a 'please don't do', is imho the only worthy link there.
15:46 asciilifeform 'But getting inside the perimeter of Vandenberg North isn’t as easy as it seems. Though we had our alibi (we had developed a new-found interest in bird watching), we still didn’t have a way in. All the roads inside of the base (and thus to the front door of our underground missile sites) were completely sealed off by sentry stations and road blocks. Security forces regularly patrolled the roads. The sky was filled with Unmanned
15:46 asciilifeform Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) equipped with infrared cameras. Admittedly, part of what appealed to me was the risk. Some of my recent successful forays had given me a brazen confidence. As part of the MacGyver Generation, I also reveled in the potential of being part of an elite few who had managed to infiltrate an active base undetected. Stupid, yes, but certainly alluring.'
~ 27 minutes ~
16:14 asciilifeform the really lulzy bit, imho, is that titan et al were built when 4th reich SPECIFICALLY knew that su had 0 working rockets. (from penkovsky, specifically.)
16:14 asciilifeform but the sweet, sweet gravy train of american 'defense' industry that ww2 kicked off, would not be ending, oh noez.
16:15 jurov !!s talos
16:16 asciilifeform !#s talos
16:16 a111 12 results for "talos", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=talos
16:16 asciilifeform jurov: didja ever get hold of one ?
16:17 asciilifeform i can't say i'm burning with desire to buy an ibm-sole-sourced chip, what 30 years after their monopoly properly died
16:17 asciilifeform but as a lulzware collector i could not resist getting at least 1.
16:18 asciilifeform https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation << oops. i guess it's dead
16:18 asciilifeform '$516,290 raised of $3,700,000 goal Funding Unsuccessful Jan 14 ended 14% funded 496 pledges'
16:18 asciilifeform RIP, little lulztron.
16:18 asciilifeform sad, short life.
16:18 asciilifeform 'The world's first ATX-compatible, workstation-class mainboard for the new, free-software friendly IBM POWER8 processor. Includes one heatsink and 92 mm fan, one ATX-compatible I/O shield, and a live rescue DVD with factory reset utilities, source code for firmware and FPGA components, mainboard schematics, user manual, and Ubuntu installation media. CPU, RAM, power supply, storage drives, and chassis sold separately.'
16:18 asciilifeform ubuntu?!
16:19 asciilifeform or server variant: 'Talos™ Desktop Edition (TALP8D050) A complete Talos™ workstation with a CPU of your choice, 128 GB of DDR3 ECC RAM, an AMD Radeon RX 480 (8 GB VRAM) GPU, and two Western Digital WD40EFRX 4 TB SATA drives, all installed in a heavy-duty tower chassis. Comes pre-installed with Debian.'
16:19 asciilifeform debian!!
16:19 asciilifeform lulzy. and for $7k us!
16:20 asciilifeform for this sum one could aaaaalmost get a chip made at that french fab.
16:20 asciilifeform (the full-shebang machine apparently was... $ 17.6k !)
16:21 asciilifeform ty jurov for reminding that this existed. i entirely forgot.
16:26 jurov i was actually going to link that, then assumed you'll go all "we already discussed that, gtfo"
16:30 jurov https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation/updates/the-state-of-owner-controlled-computing-as-talos-winds-down
16:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they planned the recon mission by email lel
~ 46 minutes ~
17:22 asciilifeform https://www.crowdsupply.com/img/e68a/significant-events-in-owner-control.png << accurate, surprisingly.
17:24 asciilifeform ftr the notion of making anything other than a large-as-possible fpga, for 'owner-controlled computing', is purest poppycock.
17:26 asciilifeform 'unverified claims that the secret keys to the Intel® Management Engine are being traded underground in criminal circles' << anybody know of this ?
17:26 asciilifeform https://www.reddit.com/r/onions/comments/5i6qa3/can_the_nsafbi_use_intel_me_to_defeat_tor_on_95/db7xvu7/ << the only 'evidence'.
17:27 asciilifeform 'This post has a lot of misunderstandings behind it. First off, the Intelligence Community does not need to force Intel to give up Manageability Engine keys (or AMD's PSP keys for that matter). Both the keys and the toolchain, as well as the source code are traded underground. I know that at least up to firmware version 8 is traded underground, and version 11 (the latest) is available without difficulty to people who know how to find
17:27 asciilifeform it. I have access to version 8's signing keys myself, being in that scene, but all my computers use version 11 so I haven't cared to mess with it. It's certainly not common but it is absolutely something that FVEY and related contractors (Raytheon, Leidos, half the people you'll see at ISS, etc) will be able to get their hands on, if they haven't already.'
17:30 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: any opinions on "autosock" vs. traditional chains?
17:33 asciilifeform at the risk of creating 'wall of text', i'ma spell out for the l0gz readerz: if you sell properly open cpu, folx then have a cpu. if you sell properly open fpga, they then have cpu, ram controller, video card, nic, etc, etc.
17:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform random redditard's spew about as worthy of consideration as something you saw on 4chan
17:34 asciilifeform so anybody claiming to 'make OPEN!11!!!! workstation!' who is not planning to make 1M+gate fpga by the megatonne, is a) subverted b) stupid or c) both.
17:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha.
17:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: anybody who claims to have a privkey for $whatever needs to only do one thing!!!
17:35 asciilifeform ..sign.
17:36 mircea_popescu i'm not saying the contrary of whatever you might have inferred from reading random spew.
17:36 mircea_popescu i am simply saying it's random spew.
17:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i was speaking of upstack link, the talos thing.
17:36 mircea_popescu your last line ?
17:36 asciilifeform in re the 'let's make an OPEN!11! workstation'.
17:36 asciilifeform ah that was re the redditards.
17:36 asciilifeform 'i have obummer's key!!'
17:36 mircea_popescu again : it's not about thart.
17:37 asciilifeform btw i'm not wholly convinced that it is properly speaking random spew. quite possibly hedging for the time when the keyz finally ~do~ leak.
17:37 asciilifeform then they can say 'ah it was always on reddit'
17:37 mircea_popescu it's on reddit, it's spew.
17:37 asciilifeform spew comes in random and aimed.
17:37 mircea_popescu for one thing, nobody reads it. it's there to write, not to read
17:38 mircea_popescu quite exactly like sewage system
17:38 asciilifeform worth also thinking why the talos folks linked to the sewer.
17:41 asciilifeform the 1 interesting gibblet imho in the talos faq:
17:41 asciilifeform '...hardware development has a sparse talent pool with widely varying skill levels, extremely high barriers to entry, very high iteration costs, slow time to market, and testing a new idea often requires a combination of both the barrier to entry and iteration costs to be paid up front. As a result, hardware development often falls back to a centrally planned model, with stronger individuals selecting what they think will be the corr
17:41 asciilifeform ect, profitable branch, and the market is unable to converge on an optimal solution. We are already seeing this with RISC-V and some of its most puzzling design decisions and strangely missing features (e.g., the lack of an IOMMU and L3 cache in all current implementations...'
17:41 asciilifeform entirely tru.
17:41 asciilifeform which is why we're awash in ~identical arm clones.
17:47 mircea_popescu i very much don';t think there is such a thing as "an optimal solution" in the field
17:47 mircea_popescu in any case "the market" is not an actor.
17:47 asciilifeform no moar in cpudom than in moon launches.
17:47 mircea_popescu clothing is perhaps a more easy to grasp example. there isn't "an optimal solution" in clothes. there also isn't a "market".
17:47 asciilifeform (possibly there was a market in 1988. not today.
17:47 asciilifeform )
17:48 mircea_popescu (the relation between hardware and textile making are STRIKING, even if one's not studied early industrialization seriously. it's almost exactly the same thing.)
17:48 shinohai https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ocmkk/i_work_at_bitcoin_ira_we_have_put_over_3mm/ "With Bitgo wallets"
17:49 asciilifeform gotta love the 'you OWN bitcoin! just not the privkey' thing.
17:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how the fuck did those kids go into the missile vaults and not carry a gm counter ?
17:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there is very rarely anything radiating in these
17:55 asciilifeform (the pu is in 4 layers of welded-shut hermetic capsule, srsly)
17:55 asciilifeform poisons -- on the other hand, yes.
17:55 mircea_popescu there are very few bad rsa moduli.
17:55 asciilifeform and mold, and sharp edges.
17:55 asciilifeform quite a few 'speleologists' drowned in these.
17:55 asciilifeform (50+ metres of water is typical)
17:57 asciilifeform the folks ~buying~ old american launchers, to convert to house, do look for (gaseous) radon. but that's more of chronic exposure hazard.
18:08 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/wife-of-orland-shooter-omar-mateen-arrested/ << Qntra - Wife Of Orland Shooter Omar Mateen Arrested
18:10 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: orlando?
18:11 BingoBoingo ty fxd
18:11 ben_vulpes anytime
18:16 * asciilifeform actually read the entire talos turd, and the links, and as is quite typical the 'libreboot' idiot pitches 'use linux on chromebook c201' -- but if you actually read, then will learn that 'so long as you don't need wireless nic or video to work!'
18:29 asciilifeform https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation/updates/talos-fpga-functions-and-responsibilities-part-1 << the sheer lunacy of the epicycles, omfg!111!
18:30 asciilifeform ' The LPC bus is a shared, bidirectional bus that often handles highly sensitive traffic such as TPM transaction cycles, password entry via PS/2 keyboard, and low level firmware read / write cycles. All existing systems using LPC for these functions share a single, fatal flaw. Since the LPC bus is shared, a malicious peripheral can be surreptitiously attached to the LPC interface without detection, then transmit interesting informati
18:30 asciilifeform on read directly from LPC out of band to an attacker, e.g. over Bluetooth... In a nutshell, LPC Guard™ converts the traditional monolithic shared LPC bus topology into a pseudo-star topology, then masks sensitive data transmissions involving a single peripheral from all remaining peripherals on the bus. The bus control device central to this technology is securely connected to the LPC master onboard the CPU or southbridge device, w
18:30 asciilifeform ith the associated PCB traces located in central layers of the system board.'
18:30 asciilifeform (for n00bz: lpc is what replaced ye olde isa in early 2000s.)
18:31 BingoBoingo In other Germans, the emergency stop: https://i.redditmedia.com/LuGCFR_IplvuLMxgoKxs5Q-W99XQAtwrfCLSN2PjCGE.jpg?w=768&s=da5a7ddfad41c1aa4e6a25417b3936cc
18:31 asciilifeform this degree of 'softwarization' of hardware, i have never before seen -- the ubuntized crockofshit approach to seekoority, finally applied down on the iron. yes, let's retrofit crossbar switching on ten layers of liquishit!
18:31 asciilifeform astounding.
18:34 asciilifeform interestingly the thing mentions 'open toolchain fpga' dozens of times but NOT ONCE says WHICH
18:34 asciilifeform where do i buy this magical thing.
18:35 asciilifeform (is it the lattice ice40? then why not SAY IT motherfucker)
18:36 asciilifeform leaving entirely aside the question of whether ice40 can in fact be made to do anything useful with the 'open' toolchain discussed earlier, or whether a toolchain that required clang, llvm, and ten other poetteringesque abortions is 'open'
↖
18:42 asciilifeform http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/specificator << in other non-newz.
18:46 mircea_popescu idiots have a serious issue naming things
18:46 mircea_popescu almost as if their entire hope is indirection. "with infinite layers of indirection, all problems can wait!"
18:48 asciilifeform if removing the liquishit is somehow 'off the table' -- what remains: parfumery
18:48 asciilifeform (they ~do~ have a serious problem with the notion of removing things, because one of the things that most desperately needs removal is ~themselves~)
18:50 mircea_popescu http://archive.is/C3p9q << funny, re the "off the table".
18:51 mircea_popescu it is interesting to see exactly how deeply welded idiocy is inside western thought.
18:57 mircea_popescu (perens, ftr, is the original author of busybox among other things)
18:58 asciilifeform where is he now?
18:58 asciilifeform (nm, found in the l0gz)
18:58 mircea_popescu retired i imagine.
18:59 asciilifeform 'As the frequency rises, saturation is less of a problem. So, modern power supplies use a high frequency (above 20 KHz, so you won’t hear it) instead of 60 Hz, which allows them to use a small toroid core transformer made of ferrite...' << entirely factual except for the 'won't hear it' part. it is maddening.
18:59 mircea_popescu anyway, tried to get an alt-ubuntu debian package going at some point when the idea was that "linux has to be more user-friendly" early 2000s
19:00 mircea_popescu stupid fucking idea. the web shouldn't have been more luser friendly ; and linux shouldn't have been more luser friendly. nothing should ever be luser friendly.
19:00 asciilifeform not that it ever was.
19:00 mircea_popescu let the luser crawl into a ghetto and die already.
19:00 asciilifeform only because ~human-unfriendly~
19:00 asciilifeform *became
19:00 asciilifeform there is nothing 'friendly' about poetteringola.
19:01 mircea_popescu it is the natural evolution of luser friendly.
19:01 mircea_popescu it's friendly to the government, which is the fundamental luser in all places.
19:06 asciilifeform 'Mr. Perens was founder of No-Code International, which helped to convince the International Telecommunications Union, FCC and the telecommunications regulators of many nations to drop the Morse code requirement for Amateur Radio licensing. With the possible exception of Russia, all nations have now dropped that requirement. ' << lel
19:07 asciilifeform ( https://perens.com/about-bruce-perens )
19:08 mircea_popescu http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/clique << bitrh of ubuntu
19:10 asciilifeform morse, incidentally, is a skill that the 4th reich would quite like to see die out entirely. ohnoez, can't have folx communicating with low-tech radios, flash-lamps, through prison toilets.
19:10 mircea_popescu not hard to bring it back
19:11 asciilifeform if you know morse, you can send 1000km message with the pieces of ruined truck.
19:11 asciilifeform or with mirror, to airplane.
19:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as with many other 'not hards', it takes, mostly, knowing ~why you oughta~
19:12 mircea_popescu what would the messages say, xoo xxxx xo oo ?
19:12 asciilifeform depends, neh.
19:12 asciilifeform on the scenario.
19:12 mircea_popescu notrly.
19:13 asciilifeform this is in re earlier thread re cpu, also. and the luser-friendly world. they want 'radio' to mean 'box with 1000MHz cpu and 1G of ram and shituntu linux' and not 'spark gap'.
19:13 asciilifeform universally.
19:13 mircea_popescu dude you can make a spark gap thing over teh weekend
19:13 asciilifeform you can also make z80 comp over weekend.
19:14 mircea_popescu if you have the ics
19:14 asciilifeform you can get them from most 1980s car.
19:14 asciilifeform (and surprising other variety of konsoomer tech. vcr, for instance.)
19:15 asciilifeform the reich works in this case not by denying the parts to would-be builders, but in pushing the notion that, e.g., 'workstation' HAS to be a 4GHz wintel thing
19:15 mircea_popescu iirc you were last pushing that notion here. and it didn't go far.
19:15 asciilifeform (there ~is~ a certain bottom floor to 'workstation', defined imho by ability to build&run trb. but it is lower than '4GHz')
19:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu disagrees with ^ ?
19:19 mircea_popescu with which part ? i'm not really following
19:19 mircea_popescu do you morse btw ?
19:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: very badly!
19:20 asciilifeform which part << 'a workstation is, minimally, something that can build trb and keep up with blocks'
19:20 mircea_popescu aite. well i'm not terribly clear on what the idea is, but i also kind-of grew tired of clipping the junctures for sense, so i dunno.
19:21 asciilifeform to possibly squeeze something useful from thread: as i understand, a lamport-based 'trb-i' ~could~ run on z80.
↖
19:21 asciilifeform so in the end mircea_popescu may well turn out to be right about 'we can ~literally~ use 1980s devices.'
19:22 mircea_popescu and the minimal bar for desktop is something like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597436
19:22 a111 Logged on 2017-01-06 13:28 mircea_popescu: like what ? something like amd fx 9500 is, i bet, way ahead anything apple ever put in anything they made.
19:23 asciilifeform ^ this is much spiffier than the box i typically sit in front of, ftr.
19:24 asciilifeform but hm, possibly we had this thread.
19:24 asciilifeform (i made a heathen box with massive 3d card, but so far have not used for ~anything.)
19:26 asciilifeform in other, possibly moar interesting lulz, perens is ceo of 'legal engineering' co., which appears to have... no www site.
19:26 asciilifeform at all.
19:27 asciilifeform (did it ~ever~ have a www? is there some public record of said co existing, besides the d00d's say-so ?)
19:29 asciilifeform http://perens.com/blog/2016/07/14/im-endorsing-hillary << and also.
19:34 mircea_popescu in other news thios coffee im having is fabulous
19:35 mircea_popescu iirc the "legal engineering" thing was an abortive attempt to "build upon" the "genius" of the "viral" gpl.
19:35 mircea_popescu this was a massive dork wank thing a decade+ ago, where the zeks figured they're like totally owning society and the legal system and whatnot.
19:36 asciilifeform https://archive.is/rwB5B is all i found.
19:36 mircea_popescu then they got settled down a little.
19:36 mircea_popescu joe stack happened etc.
19:36 asciilifeform http://www.legalengineering.com << apparently still up. but invisible to google !!
19:36 asciilifeform like mircea_popescu's hash.
19:36 asciilifeform (search for it all you like! it never comes up!!)
19:37 asciilifeform pretty lulzy, that we turn up 2 of these in 1 day.
19:37 asciilifeform yandex fwiw finds it.
19:37 asciilifeform 3rd hit.
19:38 ben_vulpes 3rd hit for me querying for "we are the bridge between lawyers and engineering", but that's probably beyond the (s)cope(ing ability) of their filters
19:38 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i searched 'legal engineering' and 'perens'
19:39 ben_vulpes yeah well i wanted to see how good the filter was, not how bad the search was.
19:40 asciilifeform this one looks like simple domain ban (in google)
19:40 ben_vulpes hey subject of perens, and then pixar, ritholtz' interview with lawrence levy is a romp
19:40 asciilifeform might be interesting to set up a www catalogue of these 'holes'.
19:41 asciilifeform (and take bets on how long until itself hand-banned from all known search engines)
19:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: link?
19:42 ben_vulpes http://ritholtz.com/2016/11/mib-lawrence-levy-cfo-pixar/
19:42 ben_vulpes no idea if transcripts exist
19:43 asciilifeform 'We discuss how Steve Jobs was on the worst run of his life, with a series of hardware failures (Mac, Lisa, Next, Pixar) and had been recently thrown out of Apple (1994).' << next was 'hardware failure' ??
19:43 ben_vulpes eh, what does barry know.
19:43 ben_vulpes or the interns at bloomberg.
19:43 * asciilifeform can't be arsed to listen to tape
19:44 asciilifeform not, at any rate, this one.
19:44 ben_vulpes pipe to youtube, curl transcription!
19:44 ben_vulpes ai!
19:48 mircea_popescu pixar wasn't that bad
~ 34 minutes ~
20:23 mod6 evenin
20:23 ben_vulpes heya mod6
20:29 mod6 warmed up, now its raining and freezing. slicker than a minnow's dick out there.
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
21:32 mircea_popescu bad for driving at any rate
~ 21 minutes ~
21:53 mod6 oh yah. lol, could hardly walk down the driveway.
~ 37 minutes ~
22:31 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: afraid not. never had a problem with good ol' fashioned winter tires. or pick-up truck if need be. honestly not even sure what you'd use socks or chains for outside of the acreage.
22:34 ben_vulpes eh i don't really fancy swapping tires every season, 'tis a 1-week twice-a-year sort of thing.
22:34 ben_vulpes most of the city is iced in atm.
22:38 pete_dushenski swapping tires isn't such a pain if you have them mounted on rims. but another whole big expense for that obv. the socks look neat. expensive ?
22:47 pete_dushenski in other expenses, if you've ever wondered what a bitcoin atm in a major city (eg. mtl) clears, the answer is $1k - $5k cad / day. http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2016/2016qccs5765/2016qccs5765.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAHYml0Y29pbgAAAAAB&resultIndex=1
22:48 mircea_popescu that's pretty bad innit.
22:48 pete_dushenski given that the machines are $5-10k if you avoid the robocoin scamzors, and that commissions are ~8%, that's none too shabby if you can keep it up.
22:49 mircea_popescu nah, iirc they threw the machines out if they dropped under 2-3k, and thgat was years ago
22:50 pete_dushenski all you have to do is refill cash and coins for $5k/mo. have half a dozen machines around a city and you're doing well.
22:50 mircea_popescu no, that's ot all you do.
22:50 mircea_popescu all you do is watch insurance premiums soar ; and all sorts of little inconveniences of that nature.
22:51 * mircea_popescu can't imagine anyone prices/treats these any differently from slot machines.
22:51 pete_dushenski sorry who's the 'they' in threw out the machines ?
22:51 pete_dushenski machine owners ? landlords with machines in their buildings ?
22:52 mircea_popescu police departments with machine in their precinct, etcetera.
22:52 pete_dushenski can't speak to insurance premiums, but one of the other quiet costs is dealing with noobtards wanting to buy/sell $20 of coin and can't figure out how to tie their shoelaces much less work slot machine
22:53 pete_dushenski lotsa babysitting involved.
22:53 pete_dushenski 'picking up pennies in front of the steamroller'
22:54 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: never heard of police taking pause with bitcoin atms around here
22:54 mircea_popescu don't tell me canada is special and you don't have a police ransom racket somehow.
22:54 pete_dushenski ok i'll keep it a secret!
22:54 pete_dushenski depends where really
22:55 pete_dushenski mtl, sure. winnipeg and westward, not so much.
22:55 mircea_popescu well yes depends where. if you put the bitcoin thing in your shed in mississiauga nobody'll bother you. literally.
22:55 pete_dushenski really, the prairies are bizarelly, truly insanely above boards.
22:55 pete_dushenski board*
22:56 pete_dushenski cops think they're carrying on the rcmp legacy. might bang some hookers or move some drugs but not shaking down small businesses.
22:57 mircea_popescu aite then, i guess there must be some nooks and crannies where the 1k machine makes sense.
22:57 pete_dushenski ya, i just happen to be in that spot. skews perspective.
22:57 pete_dushenski anyways, cops can't stay above board forever.
22:58 pete_dushenski these 5% yoy prop tax increases will come to an end, and when they do the budgets will start getting trimmed from above and replaced from below.
23:02 pete_dushenski in other recommended security measures, http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/01/11/national/crime-legal/researchers-warn-fingerprint-theft-peace-sign/#.WH2XRyMrK2z
23:03 mircea_popescu heh
~ 35 minutes ~
23:38 BingoBoingo From the Truefax department https://archive.is/tScCx
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