Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-12-18 | 2016-12-20 → ↓
00:16 BingoBoingo Camoflage https://i.sli.mg/CDco9B.png
00:17 asciilifeform ugh
~ 27 minutes ~
00:44 BingoBoingo http://www.vagabondjourney.com/bad-tripping-fat-crap-low-big-people-using-squatter-toilets-asia/
00:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://www.od43.com/1941_Eichmann_Rothschild_RB.html << 'your' rothchild chick lived?!
~ 33 minutes ~
01:31 Framedragger congrats on the shipment asciilifeform :)
~ 23 minutes ~
01:55 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch
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01:55 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 23:46 asciilifeform: btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790
~ 5 hours 50 minutes ~
07:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm sorry ?
07:55 mircea_popescu ahahaha! so : according to mp's meticulously kept state archives : yes it's true one josef israel kugelmann from fritzlar-kassel (#29044 born 13may1877, prev residence munsterstrasse 60) was (and died) at dachau. his wife, ~betty~ sara, was nee plaut not rotschild.
08:01 mircea_popescu seems you found an internet fake.
~ 35 minutes ~
08:36 Framedragger um, i was testing a script, and submitted gpg key to phuctor with luzly metainfo (http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7F1646FA33357FBC152F66E66E297B4F11EF0C3B04438FDF3B254993C3A6F814).. erm, since those specific rsa numbers are already in phuctor db, it'd be safe to remove this one asciilifeform. or keep it for the luls
08:37 Framedragger (metainfo was supposed to be different but i experienced a derp.)
08:37 mircea_popescu hand operations not worht it
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08:38 Framedragger this was while testing a script to be given to this austrian dude who wrote me, asking how to submit his server's ssh key (ssh server running on a nonstandard port)
08:38 mircea_popescu convertors, not a bad idea. we'll have to fix everything to work with proper rsa format anyways
08:38 Framedragger i think some sysadmins may want to be able to submit their ssh-rsa pubkeys themselves. and phuctor only accepts openpgp format, this needs to be converted (ssh pubkey -> gpg pubkey). so i'm adapting/stealing jurov's script and cleaning it up.
08:39 Framedragger indeed..
08:39 Framedragger (and yeah, this dude was like, "hey nice project, how do i submit my key for testing" - cool.)
08:40 Framedragger (i clarified to him that it's not my project, dunno how he got the impression)
08:41 mircea_popescu wellyour name's on it
08:42 Framedragger but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
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08:42 Framedragger i.e., maybe it's not clear because asciilifeform is too shy
08:42 Framedragger eh, whatevs. i redirect the masses to f.a.q. etc as needed.
08:43 Framedragger (by masses i mean one dude)
08:43 mircea_popescu i don't think you understand how software works. there's a very clear denied middle : it is either the product of a ~lone individual~, or else of a corporation. there is no multiple-people-work-without-usg-foundations-and-crap in most people's minds, because there isn't such a thing is most people's experience.
08:43 mircea_popescu it's like the girl that naturally fucks on the first date, and demands to be fucked in the ass. yes they can exist. no they don't figure in anyone's expectations.
08:45 mircea_popescu and yes if you run into one, you're probably one step removed from a guy who http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580129 and two steps removed from truckloads of $forbidenitems
08:45 a111 Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
~ 29 minutes ~
09:15 mircea_popescu https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
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09:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585548 << thing was quite certainly not built to be wound backwards
09:29 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 13:37 mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it
09:29 asciilifeform (removing anything whatsoever, is very very painful)
09:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
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09:30 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 13:42 Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
09:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585564 << folx throw in all kinds of nonsense when answering spam surveys, mega-surprise ?
09:30 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 14:15 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
09:31 asciilifeform 'auto: bmw fuel: hamburger'
09:34 Framedragger asciilifeform: apparently not clear to some.
09:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585532 << it wouldn't be so astonishing if in the process of 'heightening the contradictions', academitards who go against party line end up with revoked degrees. this was sop in the last reich, why not this one.
09:38 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 03:58 BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
09:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at least media consumption data comes from their netflix boxes spying onthem
09:38 mircea_popescu no surveys involved.
09:38 asciilifeform netflix has hardware box?!
09:39 * mircea_popescu suffers from a chronic inability to distinguish the microsoft vermin.
09:39 asciilifeform but sure, i can picture how this part might work.
09:39 mircea_popescu much like some people can't tell blacks apart, i can't really distinguish between https-and-unicode flavouring #1 and #2
09:40 mircea_popescu so watever, tivo ? cable top box ? call it what you will, the official-media-consumption-toolkit.
09:41 asciilifeform these are becoming fewer in number, even among chronic tv users
09:42 asciilifeform but yes, i can see how it might work, given as most folx who have these get their ip connectivity from same place as the tv box
09:43 mircea_popescu are you fucking kidding me ? bad media is becoming deeply universalized ; i made the mistake to try and watch "black mirror" because omsone said here, it's TERRIBLE from a cinematic point of view (the idiots can't act, can't block, can't speak, can't anyfucking thing ; the whole thing's a droned on ted talk, which is the point) and now i see it everwhere. last night tried to watch film with harvey keitel and michael cain, it
09:43 mircea_popescu turned out to be unwatchable - the EXACT same imbecile substance.
09:43 mircea_popescu "oh men are bad and racist and let's all hold hands and have luce irigaray-level issues"
09:44 mircea_popescu put on stage by exactly the sort of lazy, stupid and therefore unfuckworthy nitwit that used to be consigned to the margins of etsy craftsmanship and bad mary sue fanfic.
09:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the ~hardware box~ is becoming less common. most of the derps are watching on comp now.
09:44 mircea_popescu fucking epileptic trees had a seizure and took over us media production department.,
09:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform sure, because https & assorted crapola of "progress" made it safe to move the box on their pc. and it is cheaper this way.
09:45 mircea_popescu consequently attwood pens excited pieces about how "the golden age of x46 gaming is now".
09:46 mircea_popescu ie, the same idiots who thought clinton can win actually think they got the platform sufficiently under control.
09:47 * mircea_popescu is particularly annoyed because tried to play torchlight, total clone of diablo ii with ~half the ideas. i'm not sure anyone born after 1980 can even comprehend what a fucking insult to human reason that statement is.
09:47 mircea_popescu like "star wars with less ideas".
09:48 mircea_popescu "the golden age of all the games suck but we finally don't feel threatened by pgp anymore"
09:48 asciilifeform speaking of trumplincton, the actual ceremony is apparently today.
09:48 asciilifeform (not the coronation, but the anointment)
09:49 mircea_popescu lol
09:49 mircea_popescu are you going ?
09:50 asciilifeform the electoral college thing isn't public
09:50 asciilifeform and i dun recall being invited
09:50 asciilifeform the other one, might go to, if bored enough
09:50 mircea_popescu o.O sikrit meetings of representatives ? sounds so very november parade-y!
09:51 asciilifeform aha that's how they do it
09:51 mircea_popescu do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ?
09:51 asciilifeform habemus fuhrer!111
09:52 mircea_popescu i think fuhrer is german. prolly fraulein in latin.
09:54 asciilifeform lel
09:54 asciilifeform https://archive.is/xTr3N << holy mother of fuck, is that... a trinitron ? in there
09:55 mircea_popescu it might well be
09:55 mircea_popescu shape looks kinda right and the static collection fits the tube patter
09:56 asciilifeform aha.
09:56 mircea_popescu lol idiots drank antifreeze
09:56 mircea_popescu how. how the fuck. how do you drink antifreeze it's like the most objectionable thing in nature.
09:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you gotta be a serious 'alconaut', and accustomed to swallowing strange, to get there
09:57 mircea_popescu must have like <3 tastebuds left.
09:58 mircea_popescu the same species that can glossaly grade nafta dies from antifreeze ingestion. fucking diversity of mankind already.
09:59 asciilifeform 'Did He who made the lamb make thee?' (tm)(r)
10:01 mircea_popescu oh i bet i know what it is, derps prolly use methyl glycol for antifreeze
10:01 mircea_popescu why the fuck you'd do that is beyond anyone's comprehension, but w/e.
10:01 asciilifeform in same rag, https://archive.is/pGDLS >> clitlerists go after the 'heil tritler' d00d's mother. his fans - fight back. 'oh noez localhaust'
10:08 shinohai "How did we get hacked? I just don't understand, employee information was so secure!" http://www.nerc.com/AboutNERC/Resource%20Documents/roster.pdf
10:19 mod6 mornin'
10:21 mircea_popescu hola!
10:23 shinohai heya mod6
10:24 mod6 how's it goin today ?
10:28 mircea_popescu no mal!
10:30 mod6 bien :]
~ 17 minutes ~
10:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it
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10:47 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 06:55 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch
10:48 asciilifeform (specifically, cpuminer thread will sleep forever if there are no peers in the peer table, or if it - through braindamaged heuristic - decides that node is in 'initial block download')
10:50 asciilifeform also imho ben_vulpes has a very spiffy project here and it deserves more brain cycles, he is actually testing the 'bitcoin on alpha centauri' scenario! i.e. replay of time, from genesis and up, in parallel universe, on trb.
10:51 mircea_popescu ^
10:52 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0056 << and holy shit what is this.
10:52 mircea_popescu pretty sure various people (myself included) did full trb blockchain download ; but mimi's very open and usefully so.
10:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no, not full download! that's trivial and everyone did it
10:53 asciilifeform he is doing mine-from-0
10:53 asciilifeform in parallel world.
10:53 asciilifeform y'know, to see if trb miner actually works. and if indeed the thing can be put on alpha centauri.
10:54 mircea_popescu what did i say you're no-ing at ?
10:54 mircea_popescu and that looks like ... defensive buffer allocation ? lol.
10:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as i understand, you were referring to 'spin up trb node from 0 on real-life blockchain'. which more or less everyone involved has done, multiple times. his current thing appears to be the 'lan testnet' scenario i suggested a while back. where one pretends that the year is 2009.
10:55 asciilifeform and mines from genesis, transacts between toy nodes, etc.
10:56 mircea_popescu i said everyone did x, but y is good.
10:56 mircea_popescu anyway, yes, same sentiment.
10:56 asciilifeform it is necessary. afaik trb's miner has not been tested since... 2011?
10:57 mircea_popescu 2013ish
10:58 mod6 i've run it myself since then for sure.
10:59 mod6 im running it now!
10:59 mod6 works fine.
10:59 asciilifeform neato.
10:59 mod6 # LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getgenerate
10:59 mod6 true
10:59 mod6 # uptime 15:59:09 up 336 days, 17:26, 6 users, load average: 1.21, 0.94, 0.52
10:59 asciilifeform mod6: yes but does it produce a block ?
10:59 mod6 (15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=setgenerate
10:59 mod6 (15:57) <@mod6> 1 processors
10:59 mod6 (15:57) <@mod6> Starting 1 BitcoinMiner threads
10:59 mod6 (15:57) <@mod6> BitcoinMiner started
10:59 mod6 (15:57) <@mod6> keypool reserve 64
10:59 mod6 (15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=getgenerate
11:00 asciilifeform as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
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11:00 mod6 produce a block? quit trollin'
11:00 asciilifeform nono, not on planet earth net !
11:00 asciilifeform in mod6's parallel world.
11:00 mircea_popescu no he is right, you can mine it if you stay on a special subnet that's isolated.
11:01 mod6 that i do not know. but indeed a good test. set diff to 1, then generate
11:01 mircea_popescu kinda what prb "testnet" tries to be
11:02 mod6 totally worthwhile. but the exant code appears to still work on main-net anyway. but agreed, more testing/auditing/investigation required for sure.
11:03 asciilifeform i killed the 'testnet' crud because wtf, why did it use variant rules from main-net.
11:03 asciilifeform it made 0 sense.
11:04 mod6 yeah, agree.
11:04 asciilifeform it is entirely possible to test 'bitcoin from 2009' simply by running from empty blockchain on lan.
11:04 mod6 i signed it.
11:04 asciilifeform and if not -- then it is broken and needs fixing.
11:04 mod6 lemme dig something up.
11:05 asciilifeform ok i'ma quote this atrocity in the l0gz, because so far as i can tell, it works only by accident, and is an epic wtf:
11:05 asciilifeform 0054 // Align by increasing pointer, must have extra space at end of buffer
11:05 asciilifeform 0055 template <size_t nBytes, typename T>
11:05 asciilifeform 0056 T* alignup(T* p)
11:05 asciilifeform 0057 {
11:05 asciilifeform 0058 union
11:05 asciilifeform 0059 {
11:05 asciilifeform 0060 T* ptr;
11:05 asciilifeform 0061 size_t n;
11:05 asciilifeform 0062 } u;
11:05 asciilifeform 0063 u.ptr = p;
11:05 asciilifeform 0064 u.n = (u.n + (nBytes-1)) & ~(nBytes-1);
11:05 asciilifeform 0065 return u.ptr;
11:05 asciilifeform 0066 }
11:05 asciilifeform can anyone tell me how the union here can possibly not result in rubbish?
11:06 mircea_popescu hey, you signed it mofo :D
11:07 asciilifeform afaik this only lives in genesis.
11:07 mod6 So i think you pointed at this recently: http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L12379
11:08 asciilifeform mod6: aha, several times
11:08 mod6 and if it is required to be attached to at least one other node, then that may be a problem. We could still test on a lan, but you'd have to have two trb nodes on that lan to get past that line of code.
11:08 asciilifeform mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585663
11:08 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 16:00 asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
11:08 mod6 ah, thx.
11:09 mod6 (still trying to catch up, as you can see haha)
11:09 mod6 And yah, that union is scary.
11:09 mircea_popescu its not altogether a bad idea to do this ; on the contrary, it is the sort of thinking process that denotes a healthy, functioning intellect.
11:09 mircea_popescu (the mining ; not the union)
11:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, that union is at best a screaming idiocy, and at worst a boobytrap, it is a way to straight-out arithmetically munge a pointer without provoking gcc warning
11:11 asciilifeform interestingly, it is used only in the miner.
11:17 mod6 i look forward to ben_vulpes's investgation on this.
11:20 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> netflix has hardware box?! << Usually "netflix box" is built into newer, shittier tvs
11:20 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: that would do it
11:20 mod6 An update on progress towards the privkey tools feature added [ import private key with scanning from a specified beginHeight ]: I have proven out the edge case previously mentioned, twice, as expected. It can be resolved by doing a -rescan at any time. So far at least.
11:21 asciilifeform mod6: which edge case ?
11:21 mod6 Lemme see if I can dig it up, stand by.
11:21 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580953
11:21 a111 Logged on 2016-12-10 19:49 mod6: This edge case being: If pub/priv keypair A, have been sent 1.0 bitcoins on say, tx 123456789, on block 200`000. Then sent 0.5 bitcoins from pub/priv keypair A to pubkey address B on block 250`000. If the uesr only scans back from 300`000, the balance in the wallet may not reflect the 0.5 output still there for that pubkey (from keypair A).
11:21 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ? << Election by Throckmorton's Sign!
11:22 mircea_popescu heh
11:22 mod6 There are some cosmetic changes I may still make to the handling of the parameters of this function, and further testing, auditing, and validation are still required by third-parties.
11:23 mod6 But certainly a step in the right direction. Will update again as they are available. Salud!
11:24 asciilifeform mod6: as i understand it, the cure is to scan backwards until the search tree terminates in coinbases for all branches.
11:25 asciilifeform (which could indeed take you through the entire history of the universe, but chances are -- it won't)
11:25 mod6 we've discussed this.
11:25 mod6 and, we certainly could scan backwards.
11:26 mod6 however, this requires further code changes than are actually necessary.
11:26 asciilifeform probably. i imagine the use case for this knob is simple, 'i want to know if i've been paid, and the counterparty has no time machine, so it'll happen some time after $lastblock'
11:26 mod6 i don't love this feature as it introduces complexity and an edge-case that mig-pilot needs to be aware of in the first place. but i'll consider it based on the idea that the complexity can be contained.
11:27 asciilifeform so mod6's simple 'search after $blocknum' worx.
11:29 mod6 sure.
11:29 mod6 my vpatch essentially utilizes this function, which exists in the vpatch that was already sent to the ML:
11:29 mod6 pwalletMain->ScanForWalletTransactions(pindexStart, true);
11:29 mircea_popescu tracing all payments to the coinbase will be useful if/when we decide to not accept "segwit" payments.
11:30 mircea_popescu "if your coinbases do not trace to a block subsidy, you did not pay." sort of thing.
11:30 mod6 http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L25189 << scans forward from an index pointer
11:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, for so long as we continue to count gavinistic payments as actual coin, and forgo 'trace to coinbase', there is a hole wide enough to drive a tank through, for conjuring coin from thin air
11:30 mod6 mircea_popescu: ah. now that's an interesting argument.
11:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you can deterministically verify that segwit doesn't create coins without accessing their proprietary binary blob.
11:31 asciilifeform only by tallying up the circulating coin, neh ?
11:31 asciilifeform which is agonizingly O(N^2)
11:32 mircea_popescu by tallying up the segwit inputs and outputs. well, sure, but it can be verified is the point.
11:32 asciilifeform has anybody publicly carried this out ?
11:32 mircea_popescu it also doesn't work for any individual transaction, just for the whole windows abomination taken together.
11:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's in "give them rope" phase of my give them rope to hang themselves with procedure.
11:33 asciilifeform true, wouldn't want to knock out the stool from under the gavin until the noose is properly on.
11:34 mircea_popescu more's the point, notwithstanding we got a reprieve from "get it done by summer", we still don't have actual alternative we're happy with, so... what's the rush.
11:36 asciilifeform it would still be interesting to have alarm bell in trb , connected to 'i booted and it looks like >$maxcoin bitcoin are circulating'
11:36 mircea_popescu true.
11:37 * mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.)
11:38 asciilifeform sum(unspent)
11:38 mircea_popescu no i mean the max.
11:40 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0037
11:41 mod6 mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post
11:42 mircea_popescu in other unrelated lulz, buenos aires, one of the largest urban (well, "urban", whatever) agglomerations in the world ... closed down its subway system today. all of it. probem ???
11:43 asciilifeform we had this early in the year here in mordor, after a fire, it was a kind of test-run for collapse, road jams as far as eye could see
11:44 asciilifeform ( a substantial portion of who is in washington on a business day, leaves at the end of same day in the underground train )
11:44 mircea_popescu this isn't after a fire. this is because... well... the subte employees are protesting.
11:44 mircea_popescu they can do this here. somehow.
11:44 asciilifeform lul
11:45 mircea_popescu and not like there was an angry crowd at the entryways prepared to set them on fire, either.
11:45 mircea_popescu somehow this bunch of idiots wants me to believe that a bovine constituency that doesn't give a shit about turned off subway somehow actually goes out and protests the government.
11:46 mircea_popescu because i'm supposed to have been born as stupid as they are or wtf.
11:48 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585630 << and specifically, i believe isInitialBlockDownload
11:48 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it
11:49 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the peer thing also
11:49 asciilifeform srsly, wtf, why
11:49 ben_vulpes yeah we did this
11:49 ben_vulpes i acquiesed to the inanity and made 2 nodes happen
11:50 ben_vulpes still no mining, and my nose points at the initialblock check
11:51 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: quite likely it is stuck in the 'initialblock' idiocy, yes
11:51 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0
11:51 asciilifeform gavin et al definitely did not want anyone to experiment with replaying the universe, no.
11:51 mircea_popescu in typical style, poorly documented (satoshi made, too)
11:52 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?
11:52 mircea_popescu satoshi up and fucked up the client one day.
11:53 ben_vulpes k thx
11:53 ben_vulpes produced blocks that it wouldn't validate itself? throw me a bone here
11:53 asciilifeform to briefly revisit upstack, when is the last time that anyone verified that all of the circulating coin (i.e. unspent outputs) can trace their descent to valid coinbases ?
11:53 mircea_popescu not in theory.
11:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nobody did this publicly EVER afaik ; the non-donedness of which is a variable i keep track of in mah own models.
11:54 asciilifeform say we drill'em and -----
11:54 asciilifeform tungsten.
11:54 mircea_popescu hey, you're the tungsten expert, go ahead.
11:56 asciilifeform betcha this'd be, what, 3 new lines on top of ben_vulpes's proggy.
11:56 mircea_popescu indeed.
11:56 ben_vulpes stop committing me to things
11:56 asciilifeform hey you wrote it, ben_vulpes , so i'ma save the glory of the discovery for you!111
11:56 mircea_popescu he's seen it in others and is fascinated by the process ; have you noticed he spent the past few weeks trying to commit people to things ?
11:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you suck as a pm alf, give it up.
11:57 asciilifeform 'you were woodland animals all along!' (tm) (r) ('oglaf')
11:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'm experimenting with not-attempting-every-possible-thing-with-own-hands
11:57 ben_vulpes i just demoted the entirety of my todo list in favor of this mining thing, which is actually a subtask on a thing for mod6
11:58 mircea_popescu yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em.
11:58 ben_vulpes so sqlator q1 is feasible but whatever, don't count on it.
11:58 asciilifeform lol, nobody has to do the homework if they dun want.
11:58 ben_vulpes subj of homework
11:59 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579351 << i have archived everything on that www-cgi endpoint now
11:59 a111 Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely
11:59 asciilifeform neato ben_vulpes , is this mirror somewhere /
↖
12:00 asciilifeform ?
12:00 ben_vulpes if anyone wants copies, you know where to write. the recipe, however, is tres simple: wget -mpr www-cgi>
12:00 ben_vulpes thanks, tmux
12:00 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: if you'd like a copy i can get you a link later today
12:01 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: actually do you think stuffing entire www-dir behind webserver > gzipped ball?
12:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, gavin&friends nuked the historical codebase (was on sourceforge, http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19/ was first announced version) because "moving to github", gotta be proper usg tools and all. then github of course includes nothing but their current crap.
12:04 * ben_vulpes off. pants; train
12:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ever diff'em?
12:06 mircea_popescu diff who ?
12:08 asciilifeform original vs gavin
12:08 mircea_popescu nope.
12:19 mircea_popescu anyway, you should see the early versions, with bitmaps and shit.
~ 15 minutes ~
12:35 asciilifeform bitmaps??
12:36 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
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12:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha!
12:36 asciilifeform this was in the 'complete words of satoshi' deadtree i bought some years ago
12:36 mircea_popescu !~google addressbook16mask.bmp
12:36 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: zcash/ui.rc at master · zcash/zcash · GitHub: <https://github.com/zcash/zcash/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; sidecoin/ui.rc at master · AugurProject/sidecoin · GitHub: <https://github.com/AugurProject/sidecoin/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; quark/ui.rc at master · MaxGuevara/quark · GitHub: <https://github.com/MaxGuevara/quark/blob/master/share/ui.rc>
12:37 asciilifeform ah the gui crapola
12:37 mircea_popescu no, this is pre qt.
12:37 asciilifeform wx
12:37 mircea_popescu above appears eg in 0.1.5
12:37 mircea_popescu right
12:38 asciilifeform originally wx (which is the 'pepsicola' to qt, there were and are precisely 2 cross-os gui libs that work at all, wx and qt. wx is the c lib)
12:38 asciilifeform wx is gnarly but at least doesn't require entire preprocessor!
12:39 asciilifeform (qt, believe or not, does, a standard cpp compiler won't eat raw qt code)
12:40 mircea_popescu heh.
12:41 asciilifeform https://archive.is/kEEmw << apparently brownshirts!1111
12:42 mircea_popescu heh
12:43 asciilifeform 'But the experts could not think of another example of a president-elect continuing with any private security after Election Day, when Secret Service protection expands dramatically for the winner. In fact, most candidates drop any outside security the moment they’re granted Secret Service protection. Trump’s spending on private security, on the other hand, actually increased after he was granted Secret Service protection in Nove
12:43 asciilifeform mber 2015.'
12:43 asciilifeform ohnoez, EXPERTS COULD NOT THINK!1111
12:47 mircea_popescu experts also don't have the winner's keen incentive to get rid of the praetorian guard, and permanently.
12:48 mircea_popescu if /me worked for the us secret service, /me would be getting permanently lost in $farcountry just about last week.
12:48 asciilifeform loooong knives!111
12:48 mircea_popescu pretty dangerous thing to be in january 2017.
12:48 asciilifeform elsewhere, in nearby monkeystans, https://archive.is/5Q1U8 >> 'Venezuela’s president said Sunday that the sudden decision to scrap the country’s most-used currency bill was an economic triumph over the country’s enemies even as the government sent troops and police to cities where riots and looting broke out over the measure. In a national radio and television broadcast, Nicolas Maduro said his abrupt action had flooded the cou
12:48 asciilifeform ntry’s banks with currency deposited by Venezuelans racing to get rid of the paper bills while also devastating Colombian-border currency traders he blames for the bolivar’s precipitous plunge in value against “the criminal dollar.”'
12:48 asciilifeform full-bore india
12:49 mircea_popescu more like full bore korea.
13:02 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585810 << asciilifeform didn't you do a whole run of eatblock? 'deterministic sync'?
13:02 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
13:02 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i did, several times
13:02 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: worx great
13:02 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585568 << he means it's missing link to twitter and hackernews profiles :}
13:02 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
13:03 mircea_popescu blocks ~prior to that date~ ; not the current blockchain.
13:03 ben_vulpes because 'new' validation rules?
13:03 mircea_popescu there were at least a dozen blocks including breaking txns. at the time.
13:03 asciilifeform i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days
13:03 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: and the rules were changed to permit these busted transactions?
13:03 asciilifeform incidentally all of asciilifeform's public trb nodes descend from that one.
13:03 mircea_popescu no, on the contrary, to retroactively orphan what were valid blocks at the time
13:04 ben_vulpes aah
13:04 ben_vulpes so there's no 'at block XXX use iAmRetardedBlockValidator'?
13:04 mircea_popescu well, "valid". what had been accepted.
13:04 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes not afaik.
13:04 mircea_popescu but the discussion wasn't that, it was "rewalk history" bla bla.
13:04 ben_vulpes yeah i hadn't seen one. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
13:04 mircea_popescu history-as is has some various peculiarities, such as this.
13:05 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: all of the blocks in my chain validate per trb. (at one time i suspected that they would not -- but they do.)
13:05 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: mine too
13:06 ben_vulpes embarassing as it is that i'm only now finding that trb doesn't solipsistically mine, i did determine that it validates the whole chain.
13:06 mircea_popescu how is this embarassing
13:07 ben_vulpes thing is broken in very obvious way, news in year 3
13:08 ben_vulpes one man's obvious is another man's obscure rathole broken by shitgnomes
13:08 mircea_popescu tru.
13:09 asciilifeform ben_vulpes et al : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << the deterministic sync thing
13:10 asciilifeform for reference.
13:10 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9
13:10 asciilifeform using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
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13:11 ben_vulpes aha
13:11 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408 also somewhat relevant
13:11 a111 Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
13:11 mats http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot 'Russia's ambassador to Turkey assassinated in Ankara'
13:12 ben_vulpes http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html
13:14 asciilifeform mats: usg certainly would not like anything like diplomacy to carry on between ru and tr
13:15 mats http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745297/US-Embassy-security-incident-attack-Ankara-Russian-ambassador-shooting
13:16 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.
13:17 asciilifeform mats: lolnoshit, 'seekoority incident', the backstage folx who helped mr.pistolero do his thing, needed to cover their retreat
13:17 ben_vulpes isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?
13:17 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: let's do gedankenexperiment.
13:17 mats have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
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13:18 mats i'd read it
13:18 asciilifeform say martians show up with magical comp that can orphan 2009 blocks
13:18 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i disembark this train shortly, but yes lets
13:18 asciilifeform you will let'em ?
13:18 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
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13:18 asciilifeform iirc we had a thread with mircea_popescu , who remarked that it is not obviously wrong to 'let'em'
13:19 ben_vulpes 'cold equations'
13:19 asciilifeform it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
↖
13:20 ben_vulpes what rules are these that they might not win?
13:20 ben_vulpes also this 'win' is baked into how the blockchain works.
13:20 BingoBoingo Lesson of latest initial sync in progress, things that were milestone last time this year are but one further year of blocks away from completion
13:20 asciilifeform well not per current trb!
13:21 ben_vulpes aha tru
13:21 asciilifeform current trb, by default, nails down the early (300k?) blox
13:21 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough..
13:21 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
13:21 mircea_popescu mats us ambassador in manilla sleeping with a buttplug.
13:21 ben_vulpes i do not see this 'win' as bugful.
13:21 ben_vulpes perhaps, though, 'grandfathers pistols' problem rears its head here.
13:22 ben_vulpes but that the thing won't lan-mine is abhorrent imho
13:22 ben_vulpes and the checkpoints are at the root of that by my read.
13:22 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: sometimes 'grandfather's pistol' problem is complicated when it becomes evident that grandfather never actually shot anyone with his pistol
13:22 asciilifeform and no one has any idea whether it even fires
13:22 ben_vulpes also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
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13:22 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: you can use jurov's viewwe
13:22 asciilifeform *viewer
13:22 asciilifeform i do
13:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's not that ; the guy was the architect of the dept of state's most recent and most embarassing failure.
13:23 ben_vulpes not only is there state smattered everywhere but it's inscrutably altered by who even knows what when
13:23 asciilifeform e.g., http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=mapBlockIndex
13:23 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i too, on occasion.
13:23 ben_vulpes more frequently i just regenerate my tags file.
13:23 mircea_popescu this absolutely requires smarter guy on the usg side shot. and there will be some shooting. thing is there's not that many competent dudes on us side.
13:23 * ben_vulpes off again, chiral train operation
13:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585887 << it is very wrong, on the level of braindage wrong, to imagine that there can be such a thing as an ex post facto choice.
13:26 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
13:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.
13:26 mircea_popescu if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.
13:26 mircea_popescu no.
13:27 mircea_popescu it isn't a choice.
13:27 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585903 << you can also use ctags that comes with emacs. you do "ctags -e -R ." in the root of codebase, and then M-. will take you to the definition. (M-. first time will ask you for the tags file, which will be in the root of codebase)
13:27 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
13:27 mircea_popescu yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.
13:28 asciilifeform well presently trb nodes ~aren't~ operating strictly on 'race to the swiftest', they have the ancient checkpoint thing.
13:28 mircea_popescu this is true.
13:28 asciilifeform where history happened a certain way and blocks <300k or what it was, are physically unorphanable
13:28 asciilifeform just as how the genesis is hardcoded.
13:29 asciilifeform btw the checkpoints were certainly not there against martians with infinitely fast miner, but against more elementary syncing-node-mitm.
13:29 asciilifeform which remains as simple today as it ever was.
13:29 mircea_popescu yep.
13:30 asciilifeform so it is not obvious that 'race -- to the swiftest' is correct answer, anyone who can stuff a node into a solipsist cave, can replay time and orphan early blocks, if there is nothing like 'checkpoint'.
13:31 asciilifeform the real question is whether any type of checkpointing is really a permanent pill against this.
13:31 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/democrats-attempt-to-threatenbribe-electors-in-bid-to-stop-the-great-again/ << Qntra - Democrats Attempt To Threaten/Bribe Electors In Bid To Stop The Great Again
13:31 asciilifeform a mitmer has, theoretically, ~infinite~ time to munge any particular block of his choice
13:31 asciilifeform regardless of difficulty
13:32 mircea_popescu race is to the swiftest ~and~ idiots must die.
13:32 asciilifeform so he picks today's, say. and so what if he needs entire year to come up with an orphanator for it. a year from now -- he can feed it to 'in a cave' victims.
13:32 asciilifeform and they WILL eat.
13:32 mircea_popescu there is no provision made to rescue the node that can be stuffed in dark alley
13:32 mircea_popescu just like woman who permits this deserves all the cum she gets.
13:32 asciilifeform afaik it remains to be seen if the 'dark alley' can ever be ruled out.
13:32 mircea_popescu that has ~nothing to do.\
13:33 asciilifeform (or rather, whether there can be such a thing as a mechanical test for 'am i in an alley')
13:33 mircea_popescu there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law
13:33 mircea_popescu anyway ; checkpoint does exactly nothing to solve the problem. it is more in the same vein of feel good cure, like "mace" spray.
13:34 asciilifeform quite possibly
13:34 mircea_popescu except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.
13:34 asciilifeform incidentally, recall the blockchain-in-maskrom ?
13:34 mircea_popescu well not yet anyway.
13:34 mircea_popescu aha.
13:34 asciilifeform at what point can one produce the rom ?
13:34 asciilifeform if 'any' block is theoretically subject to revision.
13:35 mircea_popescu once bitcoin's finished.
13:35 asciilifeform and of what use it'd be then
13:35 mircea_popescu exactly.
13:36 asciilifeform it still isn't clear to me what'd be lost by considering, e.g., blocks that happened a proper, physical year ago, not-in-rom.
13:36 asciilifeform or rather, in rom
13:36 mircea_popescu anywya, getting back to mats ' thing, i find it truly amazingthat the ustards actually have the unmitigated audacity to try and rhodesia turkey.
13:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nothing, really.
13:37 asciilifeform well theoretically it does violate the 'thou shalt neither add, nor subtract' thing
13:38 mircea_popescu how you store the blockchain is your decision
13:38 mircea_popescu it being your node.
13:38 asciilifeform yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
↖
13:38 mats i wonder what excitement is left in the days remaining to current potus
13:39 mats stir the shit-pot real good, mebbe disrupt .ru-.tr-.ir talks
13:39 mircea_popescu yeah srsly.
13:40 mircea_popescu the stakes are pretty high, us itself is trying to pivot to an ir middle east. doesn't look like they have enough non-retards in the whole foreign service to pull it off, but hey.
13:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585879 << mats, lemme get this straight, i'm supposed to believe that obummer DIDN'T sign off on every round in that pistol? and exactly why?
13:41 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
13:41 asciilifeform from whence this 'presumption of innocence' for usg scum.
13:41 mircea_popescu it's certainly an us assassination job.
13:41 mircea_popescu i dun think anyone disputes that.
13:42 mats is your joke-bit still flipped to 'off'
13:42 mircea_popescu if you're even vaguely familiar with the victim it's pretty evident.
13:42 asciilifeform mats: it's flipped to 'spoke with kako in past month' gear, still, takes a while to move it
13:42 asciilifeform https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2016-12-13_Too_Cool_for_PGP.html << elsewhere in monkeystan
13:43 mats you, me, might literally be Hitler if we take ourselves too seriously
13:47 asciilifeform also wtf is 'OpenPGP'
13:47 asciilifeform (other than the rfc)
13:48 asciilifeform http://openpgp.org/software <<< aaaah apparently not only koch liquishit but 'here pick from this long list of shitwares, ALL GREAT!111'
13:48 mircea_popescu anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr
↖ ↖
13:48 mircea_popescu iers, except maybe one in china sea. at which point obama may or may not launch the nukes.
13:49 mircea_popescu so actual man made global warming by jan 15th is a respectable 1% or somesuch as it stands right now.
13:50 mircea_popescu if anyone wants to evacuate to ba i'll get you a place to stay.
13:50 asciilifeform eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid
13:51 asciilifeform for 1st time since hitler got his new flat
13:51 asciilifeform or when.
13:51 mircea_popescu not really how that game is played. argentina is an entirely agricultural shithole, nukes go after industry.
13:51 asciilifeform in american grid
13:51 asciilifeform naturally.
13:52 mircea_popescu the russkis are prolly going to double-tap anyway owing to fears of "who knows, maybe the dysfunctional shielf works".
13:53 mats nice knowing you guys
13:53 mircea_popescu *thumbsup*
13:54 mircea_popescu would tmsr again.
13:54 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-assasinated/ << Qntra - Russian Ambassador To Turkey Assasinated
13:55 BingoBoingo <a111> Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform << Qntra is available
13:56 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş
13:56 mircea_popescu the turks released dataz.
13:57 BingoBoingo ty
13:58 BingoBoingo fxd
13:58 mircea_popescu uh he's in custody.
13:59 BingoBoingo fxd again
14:00 asciilifeform https://archive.is/fP5Ce >> 'Trump’s insistence on channeling Putin’s propaganda may reflect a more permanent and creepier mindset that refuses to see Russia as a foe of the West. If the latter, how far will this go — blocking sanctions? Acceding to Russian aggression? The suspicion that Trump is Putin’s lapdog has cast a shadow over his secretary of state nominee, who is distinguished only by his chumminess with Putin.' << t
14:00 asciilifeform he 'national security' caste is shitting bricks
14:00 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo that members of various the various states' college of electors < since we're on it
14:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha.
14:01 mircea_popescu but the truth is, this is perfect time for trump to rid himself of the best and brightest of the "progressive" nigger set.
14:01 mircea_popescu have the russians shoot them.
14:01 * mircea_popescu recalls roman emperor who did this exact thing, had an uncharacteristically smooth rule thereafter.
14:01 BingoBoingo fxd x3
14:02 asciilifeform his obummeristic majesty sits on throne for another month.
14:02 mircea_popescu this matters less than you'd think.
14:03 BingoBoingo How many days did it take te world to got to shit following Franz Ferdinand?
14:03 mircea_popescu the sad truth of the matter is that the us has spent the past few decades giving most initiative away. the fate of the world is not significantly decided in washington at the present time.
14:03 mircea_popescu the ~entire thing is just how much the chinese want to and can convince the russians that significant and sufficiently humilatory concessions will be forced out of the us side so they forego actually taking scalps.
14:06 mircea_popescu and as per http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" ; rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally ; or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.
14:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the death of the 'fat consumer' system is not optional, it's an exponential/runaway growth hallucinatory nonsense. the lizard deindustrialization program is in re the ~controlled demolition~ of same.
↖
14:10 asciilifeform such that the bricks fall on designated untermenschen when possible.
14:11 mircea_popescu this is the most generous interpretation.
14:12 asciilifeform let's have the less generous one? for education
14:13 mircea_popescu anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.
14:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the less generous one is as set out in "apple could buy russia"
14:13 asciilifeform 'apple' already tried to 'buy russia' in '41.
14:14 asciilifeform it'll try again, again, why not, why should, from its pov, dirty orcs lord over 200-300 additional years of nonrenewables.
14:14 mircea_popescu we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.
14:15 mircea_popescu be that all it may, the ~correct~ reaction is strictly http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-133.333-133.381
14:16 mircea_popescu deindustrialization dun enter into this ; de-"personalization" as personhood is currently misrepresented in the west however - does.
14:16 asciilifeform meanwhile, 'An Army major general has been stripped of his stars and forced out of the military after a 30-year military career because of a long extramarital affair and "swinger" lifestyle. An Army spokesman says Maj. Gen. David Haight was demoted by three steps to the rank of lieutenant colonel, a steep and rare downgrade for a senior officer. The demotion will cost him more than $40,000 in annual retirement pay, based on pay scale
14:16 asciilifeform s for a lieutenant colonel and a two-star general with 30 years in the Army. And it slams the door on what was once a promising career. Army Secretary Eric Fanning approved the board's recommendation and made the final decision. The spokesman was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke anonymously.'
14:17 mircea_popescu who the fuck cares who some guy fucks ffs.
14:17 asciilifeform evidently d00d drank a bit too much, dropped some loose lips re heiling tritler or such.
14:18 asciilifeform nobody cares until 'must have problems'
14:18 mircea_popescu http://christianfighterpilot.com/2016/08/29/army-major-general-david-haight-fired-for-who-he-loves/ << of course trump can undo it :)
14:26 asciilifeform in other monkeystans, 'Joanna Palani, a 23-year-old Danish woman, was facing a 6-month prison sentence after fighting alongside Kurdish peshmerga forces in Iraq and Syria, The Local reported. Palani had her passport confiscated last year after she returned to Denmark, and was hit with a one-year travel ban, for violating the nation's so-called "foreign fighter" rules. The regulations were aimed at stopping Danish citizens from joinin
14:26 asciilifeform g terror groups, but could punish people who fight on the other side, according to analysts. ... “How can I pose a threat to Denmark and other countries by being a soldier in an official army that Denmark trains and supports directly in the fight against the Islamic State?” she wrote on Facebook after officials took her passport. The potential 6-month prison sentence stems from the travel ban violation. Palani admitted to traveli
14:26 asciilifeform ng to Qatar in June and was detained last week...'
14:26 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585962 <<< in this case there's quite a few other ways in which the can fuck you
14:26 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 18:38 asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
14:26 asciilifeform davout: besides the point
14:27 mircea_popescu notrly.
14:27 asciilifeform davout: see the mitm point further down in the thread. a ~simulated~ yottahash is just as good for the purpose.
14:27 mircea_popescu one who comes with magical unicorn alternative can not thereby pretend to invalidate the rest of the magical unicorn implications.
14:27 asciilifeform it isn't magical in any sense, you and i can do it right now -- e.g., mine an alternate block #300,000 and feed it to a cornered node.
14:28 mircea_popescu the cornering is magical.
14:28 davout asciilifeform: bitcoin makes no guarantees that you'll be fine if *all* your peers are compromised
14:28 mircea_popescu yes, i'm aware various magicks are readily transmutable.
14:28 ben_vulpes davout: this is the 'sybil' thread, yes?
14:28 asciilifeform show me the guaranteed noncornered node.
14:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you proceed from this very strange place. nobody owes you any guarantees.
14:29 mircea_popescu nor can you extract guarantees. there's no guarantee stamped on gravitaqtion iether.
14:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: dunno about you, but my nodes are blackholed more often than not.
14:29 asciilifeform and i have nfi what, if anything , is to be done about it.
14:29 davout ben_vulpes: today's thread?
14:29 mircea_popescu your life, in ALL its respects - !!!!IMPORTANT!!! NOT IN SOME RESPECTS YOU AGREE TO !!!!IMPORTANT!!! - is not certain.
14:29 asciilifeform noshit
14:29 mircea_popescu so then what are you talking about.
14:30 asciilifeform about entirely feasible attack on real-life nodes..?
14:30 mircea_popescu show me this feasibility.
14:30 mircea_popescu see, now we have the burden on the right side.
14:31 ben_vulpes davout: no, ancient one
14:31 davout ben_vulpes: then no :)
14:31 ben_vulpes aok
14:31 asciilifeform it is in re the earlier gedankenexperiment. say trb operators stuck to the 'grandfather's pistol' principle entirely, and kept no record, other than current copy of blockchain, of the past. no checksums, etc.
14:31 mircea_popescu magical type 3
14:32 asciilifeform ?
14:32 mircea_popescu listen, randomly transmuting the magical unicorn into magical octopi etc isn't going to work.
14:32 mircea_popescu i am aware magic readily transmutes.
14:32 asciilifeform where is the 'magical' ?
14:32 mircea_popescu in the memorylessness.
14:32 asciilifeform it's a thought experiment ! of course it contains a counterfactual. no one afaik is dumb enough to actually do this.
14:32 mircea_popescu but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.
14:32 asciilifeform which was my only argument - that it would be stupid.
14:33 mircea_popescu if you do this - you may not anymore deny the other implications of magical unicorn. such as you know, someone eating jam and shitting whole plums.
14:34 asciilifeform somebody ( ben_vulpes ? ) ~did~ advance the argument that if martian lands and has enough hash, and wants to use it to orphan block # 2, he ought to be able to and we ought to live with the result, iirc.
14:36 mircea_popescu that's broadly the idea - "mommy, what should i do if johnny wants to plug my virgin ass ?" "don't let him ?" "what if i can't ?" "you can" "what if magical alien from afar comes and he has magical powers and i really can't ?" "oh, no, HIM you spread for."
14:37 asciilifeform as i understand, mircea_popescu objects , that this is an imaginary solution to the quadratic, that there is no physically plausible scenario that follows this path.
14:37 mircea_popescu this whole "humans are inferior ; aliens come ; but humans still manage to somehow" is rank nonsense, not how things play out, nor how things should play out, nor how anyone wants them to play out.
14:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, i complain that you construct a problem that necessarily may not have a solution.
14:38 ben_vulpes aight so i can drop checkpoints.cpp then?
14:38 asciilifeform well yes, in the literal martian scenario, 'what do i do if a shell hits my trench?' 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around'
14:38 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.
14:38 mircea_popescu this is still the correct thing.
14:38 ben_vulpes ah
14:38 ben_vulpes i recall now
14:38 mircea_popescu let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
↖
14:38 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: add '--solipsist' and be done with it..?
14:39 asciilifeform or mircea_popescu's method.
14:39 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: checkpoints.cpp really grates
14:39 asciilifeform (except fuck the idiot blockheaders thing! hash entire fucking blocks)
14:39 mircea_popescu yes.
14:39 mircea_popescu it should be implemented as full block hashes.
14:39 asciilifeform the 'headers' thing is abominable.
14:40 mircea_popescu even that aside - there's no "propagation" excuse in this usecase.
14:40 asciilifeform and it is quite regrettable imho that it cannot be entirely bulldozed in bitcoin as it is.
14:40 mircea_popescu don't sweat it alf, eventually there will be a fork.
14:42 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586084 <<< "show user checksums on demand so he can burn the system down if it doesn't match" sounds sufficient to me
14:42 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
14:42 trinque isn't this another http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578431
14:42 a111 Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
14:42 asciilifeform ^
14:42 asciilifeform sorta where i wanted to go with 'shiva', gimme a console
14:42 asciilifeform where i can query ALL state
14:42 asciilifeform of running node.
14:42 asciilifeform every single fucking flag, variable, whatever.
14:42 asciilifeform if i want to know where tx # .... is --- let's have it.
14:43 asciilifeform none of this 'last six digits' nonsense.
14:43 mircea_popescu also works.
14:43 asciilifeform if i want to flush the mempool, ditto.
14:43 asciilifeform flush motherfucking mempool.
14:43 davout asciilifeform: have you tried bitcoin-ruby?
14:43 * davout ducks
14:43 mircea_popescu lol
14:43 asciilifeform none of this ~everything-linked-to-everything~ tumour mass plox.
14:43 asciilifeform davout: what's it do
14:44 asciilifeform davout: chances are there is a crackpot pseudoimplementation of bitcoin in every language, cobol, malbolge, befunge, by this point. they are of 0 interest because not trb !
14:44 asciilifeform why would i give half a fuck what some rando thinks bitcoin is !
14:45 asciilifeform (or worse: wants me to think that it is!)
14:45 trinque davout: troll not the poar alf
14:45 asciilifeform nah but srsly as if i did not know about crackpot clients
14:45 asciilifeform iirc there was even a ~decent one (as far as anyone could tell) in python, in 2012
14:45 asciilifeform and another in some proprietary D-like language used at google
14:46 asciilifeform and possibly else.
14:46 davout these were 'decent' ?
14:46 asciilifeform there was a curated list of these at one time
14:46 * trinque ran the golang one for a long time
14:46 asciilifeform davout: 'decent' in the sense of having no ~obvious~ catastrophic bomb
14:46 trinque worked fine; I move deedbot to trb to lean on trb
14:46 trinque *moved
14:47 davout asciilifeform: aha, like 'a decent thai whore' ?
14:47 asciilifeform exactly as.
14:47 asciilifeform it is the sad peculiarity of life of the programmer that a proggy 'works perfectly' -- until not
14:47 davout it's by no means peculiar
14:48 mircea_popescu wife, same.
14:48 davout an airplane flies until it doesn't
14:48 trinque my arse, also.
14:48 asciilifeform davout: i recently enjoyed a very old b00k on pilot mistakes
14:48 asciilifeform was quite enlightening.
14:49 mircea_popescu i recently enjoyed a very credible thai whore. it was quite unsettling ; i never felt so much like i'm fucking a little boy in my life.
14:49 davout 'human factors' is a thing
14:50 asciilifeform programming would perhaps be a similarly honourable profession as piloting, with similar calibre of people, if only it were possible to kill yourself just as easily with mistreated computer as with airplane.
14:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ergonomics!11111
14:50 trinque speaking of killing yourself, the db design for trb deserves *long* thought
14:50 mircea_popescu what ergonomics ?!
14:50 trinque there are endless abominations that can arise on that path otherwise
14:50 mircea_popescu trinque aha.
14:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you wouldn't sit in a kindergartener's chair, wouldja
14:50 mircea_popescu kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.
14:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hm i hadn't considered this. you mean the tiny girls are for tiny guys ?
14:51 davout asciilifeform: i'm interested in the title
14:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the dimensional tolerance is , in practice.
14:51 asciilifeform but the 'boy' comment suggests that it is finite.
14:52 mircea_popescu and i have nfi how anyone fucks these 100lb, tits smaller than mine twists. anyway.
14:52 davout trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?
14:52 asciilifeform davout: 'Вам - взлет!' (Анатолий Маркович Маркуша.) it's a childrenz' b00k
14:52 mircea_popescu davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.
14:53 asciilifeform davout: about, yes, piloting. with, yes, how pilots die.
14:53 trinque davout: ad hoc crapping together database features as needed gets you the last round of idiot fad databases
14:53 trinque mongo et al
14:53 trinque one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...
14:54 davout trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"
14:54 mircea_popescu holy fuck no.
14:54 asciilifeform trinque: it is not clear that any feature set aside from 'get anything by anything-else in O(NlogN)' is necessary or justified.
14:54 trinque because I don't always know what the fuck I want!
14:55 trinque just predicates I want to apply
14:55 asciilifeform and guess where THIS IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED
14:55 asciilifeform :
14:55 asciilifeform your disk fs !
14:55 asciilifeform any of'em. even ext3.
14:55 trinque I could not disagree more
14:55 davout if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?
14:55 mircea_popescu me repeats bitcoinfs in his corner.
14:55 trinque davout: apparently so
14:55 asciilifeform trinque: what can, e.g., reiserfs, not do, that you need done to your tx index ?
14:55 mircea_popescu davout the objection, to be clear, is that too much maintenance. that's the true cost here.
14:56 davout what's "too much" ?
14:56 asciilifeform the mega-win from 'use files on disk, in directories' is that i can explore the index with sed, grep, etc.
14:56 asciilifeform instead of relying on gigantic binary turd and dedicated toolset.
14:56 trinque please to not argue against things I have not said.
14:57 asciilifeform (does anyone understand why i put, e.g., 'v', together, the way i did? or the lamportron?)
14:57 davout asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
↖
14:57 trinque the relational model is not impossible to implement
14:57 asciilifeform trinque: i promise not to argue until you say exactly what needs doing that cannot be done with stock fs
14:57 trinque I didn't say link sqlite
14:57 mircea_popescu davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
↖
14:57 mircea_popescu you add 50 hours of b, so you made a very bad trade-off.
14:57 asciilifeform davout: not dedicated. and arguably if you're using an os 1000 yrs from now that doesn't have exact equivalents of these tools, you have serious problems
14:57 trinque asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain
14:58 mircea_popescu in the case of most modern bright minds, b is "hidden" under the rug and so they don';t think correctly about their environment
14:58 trinque or I go cache it somewhere and that is stupid
14:58 asciilifeform trinque: this is a physical impossibility
14:58 asciilifeform of course you can't do it!
14:58 trinque that is a trivial SQL query over transactions
14:58 mircea_popescu which is why no english-speaking, quora-and-stackexchange, wikipedia-and-tedtalk "entrepreneur" can create value.
14:58 asciilifeform trinque: it's still O(N)
14:58 asciilifeform think for a minute
14:58 asciilifeform how could it not be
14:58 trinque again, do not argue against what I have not said!
14:59 trinque you will implement indexes yourself, and so on
14:59 mircea_popescu trinque if you manage to get alf to not do that, let me know what you did.
14:59 trinque and then vast mountain of already researched space put together poorly
14:59 asciilifeform trinque: it remains O(N), and yes, you can reduce your N, but you traded away correctness for speed.
14:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586179 << certainly not ; i can read sed.
14:59 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
14:59 asciilifeform a full, canonical 'how much is this addr worth' requires O(N) chain walk.
14:59 asciilifeform always will.
15:00 trinque not if you have a reliable index that can find every reference to that address
15:00 asciilifeform trinque: if you write how to do this, i give you my word that i will read .
15:00 mircea_popescu trinque you will have to store NlogN data ; and n is like tb
15:01 asciilifeform and answer cannot be 'sql command'
15:01 asciilifeform i meant - ~algorithmically~ how.
15:01 mircea_popescu !~calc 10**12 * log(10**12)
15:01 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 10**12 * log(10**12) = 1.1999999999999998E13
15:01 mircea_popescu lulzy.
15:02 mircea_popescu !~calc 10**12 * ln(10**12)
15:02 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 10**12 * ln(10**12) = 2.7631021115928547E13
15:02 mircea_popescu somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.
15:02 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586183 <<< are you saying that relational storage is nice, but has the high indexing cost? or am i completely amiss?
15:02 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
15:03 asciilifeform btw, p=?=np esoterica aside, 'never say never' in re algorithmic complexities. it is possible to make a number-theoretic 'blockchain' where you check for unspentness by euclid's gcd, for instance. many things are theoretically possible. but this thread afaik is about traditional bitcoin.
15:03 mircea_popescu davout completely amiss. if you try to rubify this, you will end up with the kubinetes situation. "nobody knows how this works".
15:03 trinque I would not create indices for every transaction
15:03 trinque I'd have it run along indexing mine
↖
15:03 mircea_popescu the reason we want ~one~ is that we don't want to find we can't maintain two.
15:03 trinque -or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this
15:03 mircea_popescu trinque my comment is re a more general case, not just txn, because i am confident you'll end up stuck with a more general problem in practice.
15:03 trinque reasonable
15:04 mircea_popescu the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./
15:04 davout aok, you were referring to the 'pluggable' part, not the 'relational' part
15:04 mircea_popescu davout aye verily.
15:06 mircea_popescu this is the very important point here - every feature in the toolchain makes programming easier but ~everything else~ (generally here referred to "fit in head" but easily expanded to writing correct tests, maintaining, even KNOWING WHAT BLEW UP when something blows up!) much much harder
15:06 mircea_popescu and the differential is in fact so immense and not even linear, that restrained toolset is huge gain.
15:06 mircea_popescu in spite of making first-pass coding utter pain.
15:07 asciilifeform the algo where you 'wallet' by keeping privkey AND index-of-last-block-where-this-addr-was-input-or-output are kept around, works until , in 'typical human' fashion, [l]user asks for 'fried ice', and wants MOAR, e.g., 'oooh i found a privkey in my underpants drawer, how much is it worth' or 'i want to keep priv on 2+ boxes' or, or.
15:07 mircea_popescu and that's just scratching the tipsurface.
15:07 asciilifeform well yes.
15:08 asciilifeform simplest example that ~everyone is personally familiar with.
15:08 mircea_popescu ayup.
15:08 davout a valuable advantage of relational storage is that *the user decides* what to index
15:08 asciilifeform davout: in point of fact you can decide on fs also
15:08 davout "want to import arbitrary keys? cost 5tb of index"
15:08 asciilifeform by choosing a different fs to plant the thing on
15:08 mircea_popescu the problem with this is that it's not really open to his decision. see something like "user decides what checksum" is eminently user-able.
15:09 mircea_popescu but "what to index" is like "user decides when to breathe"
15:09 asciilifeform having the db hardlinked in bitcoin is lunacy
15:09 mircea_popescu noty.
15:09 asciilifeform it does not belong in there.
15:09 asciilifeform how to arrange bytes on hdd, is why we even tolerate the misery of having an os, to begin with.
15:09 asciilifeform so that different proggies can use same disk turds.
15:09 asciilifeform for entirely different, and unplanned, things.
15:10 davout hence pluggable interface
15:10 mircea_popescu this much is true. it's also not really the part in dispute.
15:10 asciilifeform davout: pluggable ~without bitcoin having to know about it~ is the key.
15:10 davout sure, no argument here!
15:10 trinque this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things; I would call it a db.
15:10 trinque it's just a question of how much OS you want to eat, and all is a fine answer
15:11 mircea_popescu and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs.
15:12 mircea_popescu trinque not only that, but anything other than all is kinda indefensible in practice.
15:12 asciilifeform the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.)
15:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform bitcoinfs ends up with bitcoin-hdd-firmware.
15:14 asciilifeform if it must -- it will.
15:15 mircea_popescu the expectation ot make an os and not have to write drivers is the sweet sort of innocence usually reserved for coed sluts.
15:15 asciilifeform not same as hdd fw omfg
15:15 mircea_popescu right.
15:16 mircea_popescu writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
↖
15:16 asciilifeform btw if anyone can come up with a WORKING 'crab' (realtek) nic driver in pure long mode asm, we can have, e.g., scheme on iron, and usefully so, in a couplea weeks.
↖
15:17 asciilifeform i wasted... dun even care to say how long. on this chore.
15:17 asciilifeform with 0 result.
15:17 mircea_popescu didja ask the finn ?
15:17 davout i'm still not convinced that the relational approach is not the correct one, as far as an arbitrary inspectable DB is required
15:18 mircea_popescu how would you be convinced ?
15:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: most folks run for the hills when i say 'yes in asm, and no you don't get to use any existing code'
15:18 trinque davout: idea is that these querying tools could as well use reiserfs or another as the "disk data format"
15:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but did you ask the fin.
15:18 asciilifeform and i'm pretty sure it came up when the finn was here. he vanished.
15:18 trinque as say pg has whatever it shits into /var/lib/postgresql/data
15:18 mircea_popescu dude...
15:18 mircea_popescu ask the fucking fin.
15:18 asciilifeform how am i to ask him, lol, he disappeared.
15:18 mircea_popescu he left an email or something iirc.
15:18 * asciilifeform digs for d00d's mailbox.
15:19 mircea_popescu but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".
15:20 davout did we just add tmsr-db on the todo?
15:20 asciilifeform btw i dug out, long ago, a crackpot implementation in one 'baremetal os' (actual title) of supposedly-it. it dun work on any actual iron i was able to buy.
15:20 mircea_popescu was there since long ago.
15:20 asciilifeform and i bought a dozen cards of various vintage.
15:20 davout right
15:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io
15:21 asciilifeform so they are of 0 interest to me.
15:21 asciilifeform (e.g., the one in linux. or bsd. or mac.)
15:21 mircea_popescu more or less.
15:21 mircea_popescu hence my comment re fw above.
15:21 asciilifeform i studied the one in coreboot
15:21 asciilifeform it ALSO DOES
15:21 asciilifeform yes, the pxe boot rom.
15:21 mircea_popescu it would.
15:21 asciilifeform has whole motherfucking os.
15:22 asciilifeform megatonne of 'idiomatic c'
15:22 asciilifeform rubbish.
15:22 mircea_popescu think for a moment what immense pile of varying switches the other approach would be like.
15:22 asciilifeform it'd be a few 100 lines of asm
15:22 asciilifeform particular, yes, to the card.
15:22 mircea_popescu to work on all the consumer
15:22 mircea_popescu right. lol. not what coreboot tries to do.
15:22 asciilifeform i actually got hold of msdos driver
15:22 asciilifeform for netware.
15:22 asciilifeform believe or not, for a card made in 2011.
15:22 asciilifeform it was the closest thing to what i want.
15:23 asciilifeform now must reverse it. will take a while, and only can even begin when hands again are free to do this
15:23 asciilifeform (and when?!)
15:23 asciilifeform it is in, yes, 16bit asm.
15:24 mircea_popescu heh
15:24 asciilifeform one problem with asciilifeform in particular is that his patience with x86 crapola has become very short
15:24 asciilifeform a younger d00d like, e.g., trinque , might get more result.
15:24 trinque this younger dood already has a pile of ppc
15:25 trinque :p
15:25 asciilifeform well it doesn't have to be trinque .
15:25 trinque but yes, am learning amd64 asm currently.
15:25 asciilifeform but somebody who isn't walking with years of radiation damage from reversing x86 for money.
15:25 mircea_popescu we need moar younger... actually , moar younger women plox.
15:25 asciilifeform ^
15:25 asciilifeform trinque: if it isn't megaseekrit, where'dya get a hold of a ppc ?
15:26 asciilifeform or is this a vintage box
15:26 trinque loads on ebay
15:26 asciilifeform aaah
15:26 trinque I've been buying lots of mac mini g4
15:26 asciilifeform neato
15:26 asciilifeform for a while, local uni surplus here was selling g5 monsters (big iron things) by the pound
15:26 asciilifeform boxes that cost 3-4k usd new, in mid 2000s, going for pennies
15:27 asciilifeform (crapple dropped all support)
15:27 trinque yeah, I've got one of those guys sitting here too
15:27 trinque and an xserve on the way
15:27 asciilifeform neato
15:27 asciilifeform pick up some old sgi iron, if doing this, it has even better bang/buck ratio
15:27 asciilifeform i saw an 'origin' sold once, for price of scrap, and it worked
15:28 trinque kk
15:28 asciilifeform of course this all comes with a very real risk of turning into theo de raadt and moving into a cave, muttering, wearing hair shirts, sleeping in coffin
15:28 asciilifeform but perhaps -- worth it
15:29 mircea_popescu teh republic will have to commit to in some manner providing lifeline for above.
15:29 mircea_popescu because there's no functioning religion without a strong ascetic line.
15:29 asciilifeform i will send potatoes! and old microchannel NICs!!111
15:30 trinque lel
15:30 asciilifeform (pretty sure i ~still~ have 1 or 2...)
15:30 * mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
↖
15:31 asciilifeform i have 2 dec alphas that are available to my l1 for cost of postage.
15:31 trinque huh, maybe I start an armory :)
15:31 asciilifeform if anyone needs.
15:31 mircea_popescu trinque i am saying - depending on exactly what one's life goals etc are ; running a warehouse full of old iron bought on the cheap is a very reasonable lifestyle choice.
15:31 asciilifeform (both, iirc, circa '04 or so)
15:32 davout computer sommelier position still not filled
15:32 mircea_popescu certainly a LOT more saner than "prepper" idiots storing canned food etc.
15:32 mircea_popescu THAT's what im gonnafucking want, canned peaches. ffs.
15:33 * trinque will have a monthly buy of this and similar till doomsday
15:33 trinque *til
15:33 asciilifeform davout: there can be >1. in fact, if we're ever down to 1, it is trouble.
15:33 trinque what am I going to do, buy fucking US stocks?
15:33 mircea_popescu ikr.
15:34 * trinque has at least two phrases branded on his mind by the republic
15:34 trinque "You could've been better anywhere else."
15:34 trinque and "cannot be had for any price"
15:35 mircea_popescu heh. i can see it.
15:39 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/dfGeO#selection-224.0-243.15 << lulziest fucking shit
15:40 mircea_popescu also an ~incredible~ point in case of how ustardian brain damage actually works. the very idiots that advertise captcha breaking... use captcha!
15:53 asciilifeform i think that is the longest list of spampaypals-and-demonstratively-not-bitcoin i've seen since 2009.
15:53 * asciilifeform read it several times, thinking 'probably missed it...', and.
15:53 asciilifeform dafuq is, e.g., 'giropay'
15:53 asciilifeform or 'pay-easy'
15:54 asciilifeform or the dozen hieroglyphic crapolades.
15:54 asciilifeform what is a 'weemoney' ?
15:54 asciilifeform pay with jars of piss ?
15:54 asciilifeform (or was it a 'b')
15:55 asciilifeform who has heard of 'bleue' ? can pronounce without gagging?
15:55 * asciilifeform reads on, in sidebar, 'Dec 13: For your Bitcoin payments, remember that we need the Coinbase transaction ID in order to track your deposit. We encourage you to write down that ID to avoid delays in your Bitcoin payment processing. Thanks for your comprehension.'
15:55 asciilifeform they take ~only~ coinbase?!
15:57 trinque http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-truck-idUSKBN148287 << moar bowling for cucks
16:09 mircea_popescu lol
~ 42 minutes ~
16:51 shinohai When your security track record is so bad, you can't even secure your forums: http://archive.is/2nvH2
16:52 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/german-truck-attack-stikes-market-in-front-of-kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church/ << Qntra - German Truck Attack Strikes Market In Front Of Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church
16:56 mircea_popescu lol
17:02 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/adobe-releases-first-linux-flash-player-update-in-4-years/ << Qntra - Adobe Releases First Linux Flash Player Update In 4 Years
~ 27 minutes ~
17:30 ben_vulpes entirely unrelatedly to anything else, does trb's `getmemorypool' actually work?
~ 22 minutes ~
17:52 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i, for one, do not know the answer
17:53 ben_vulpes i think that i just crashed my node asking for the memory pool.
17:54 ben_vulpes either that or blackhole?
17:55 asciilifeform post log?
↖
17:57 asciilifeform in other lulz, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YmlTD/?raw=true
17:57 asciilifeform ^ obscure box with ssh on nonstandard port
17:57 asciilifeform persistent little bugger.
17:59 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: will
18:08 * danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342
↖ ↖
18:08 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 20:30 mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
18:20 pete_dushenski hanbot: right you are, my dear. thank you for being the proverbial alert reader! 2016 year-in-review now updated to include resolution of courts circus competition.
18:22 pete_dushenski shinohai: l0l!!
18:23 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/president-elect-trump-passes-270-votes-in-state-electoral-colleges-is-once-again-president-elect/ << Qntra - President Elect Trump Passes 270 Votes In State Electoral Colleges, Is Once Again President Elect
18:23 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working
↖
18:23 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
18:25 asciilifeform danielpbarron: doesn't force-load either ?
18:25 asciilifeform (standard linux kernel won't load mods that aren't versioned for it. unless 'forced')
18:26 danielpbarron from my very limited understanding, something was changed in the kernel that the driver was expecting to be there
18:26 danielpbarron something about symbols
18:26 asciilifeform something other than version?
18:28 asciilifeform or hm, lemme guess, MTRR
18:28 asciilifeform ( http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=2baa891e42d84159b693eadd44f6fe1486285bdc )
18:28 danielpbarron that sounds familiar
18:29 danielpbarron 4.1.35-gentoo is what i had to go back to
~ 30 minutes ~
18:59 asciilifeform in recent orlolz, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/12/brain-parasite-gonna-eatcha.html
~ 50 minutes ~
19:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586388 << ideally more of a lend-lease sort of deal than simply warehousing the parts though.
19:50 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 23:08 danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342
19:51 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586393 << this is actuyally a very valid complaint ; i'm not necessarily proposing the finn's right.
19:51 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 23:23 danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working
19:52 mircea_popescu random fun fact : no matter how you turn the ~50bn worth of us resources & materiel shipped to the allies in ww2 into "present day shitollars", it still doesn't come ANYWHERE NEAR what the defeat in the middle east cost.
20:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the notion that russia was at some point popular in the ukraine is utterly insane. when was this exactly, i don't get it, before or after the muscovy went to space ?
20:08 asciilifeform which ua
20:08 mircea_popescu ua.
20:08 asciilifeform the one full of ukrs? or the other one, that wasn't even any colour of ukr whatsoever until idiot hruschev redrew the map.
20:09 mircea_popescu you know, the original russians, before the mongols came, flattened them and some random upstarts in some ravine further up north found themselves about in the position of argentina in 1950.
20:09 mircea_popescu well he says ukraine, i don't imagine he means sevastopol.
20:09 asciilifeform these expired some time around ivan 4.
20:09 mircea_popescu (obviously what he's trying to do is speculate the cluelessness of english speakers, but whatever, we already know the guy's an utter shithead.)
20:15 danielpbarron mircea_popescu, what do you mean lend-lease?
20:16 mircea_popescu danielpbarron i mean that if some guy who is actively developing for some iron is shying away from buying a piece because he only has part of the money i'd consider cutting a deal.
20:17 mircea_popescu especially if a) the piece is actually useful as opposed to curio and b) it's being sold for scrap by the imperial idiots.
20:23 asciilifeform though i can think of a few exceptions ( transport for, e.g., cray, or connection machine - and yes, i knew a d00d whi bought connection machine! is not easy or cheap ) -- generally old hardware of the interesting sort ( vs everybody's old 386 ) is cheap
20:23 asciilifeform and in most cases still readily had.
20:23 mircea_popescu there is no such thing as "cheap" in business.
20:24 asciilifeform there is 'cheap' in the junk business.
20:24 asciilifeform which is what subj is
20:24 asciilifeform and yes, cheap today, unobtainable tomorrow.
20:24 mircea_popescu no, i mean the kind of cheap you're talking about, "oh, soy is cheap and gold is expensive". volumes scale, soy is sold in the ton and gold in the ounce. there's no "cheap" ; if it's 20 a pop you bundle 1k together.
20:25 mircea_popescu "pogo is cheap" no it's not, i'm not buying one.
20:25 asciilifeform ( most famously, smbx lispm was findable for a few hundy during a very brief burst when amex flooded the market with theirs, which had been replaced with java shitware )
20:26 mircea_popescu that's exactly what i mean. when that happens.
20:27 asciilifeform 'cheap' in the antique comp business means in practice 'everyone who wants, has'. as, e.g., 'commodore 64', vs, say, lispm.
20:28 asciilifeform no shortage of one; while the other showing up on ebay in qty==1 is 'world' news...
20:30 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1B818C00C15B84948FE638F6B6807D375844F2FFB3CD6F5DE491197ECA2E46E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2396...6649 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.18.75.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.18.75.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SK KI)
20:30 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/511D245CC07601CF0039D42DB5CAF4B37B9D40851F889F0A8C126563C0E7C906 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2274...5573 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.124.187.244 (ssh-rsa key from 123.124.187.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 11)
20:30 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3506CFEBD2F41FA56B9A44F2C08E057D0F546A6D7330DB32905442CF2121BCB5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
20:41 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice. << there was a whole public discussion on this at the time. and at that point, i backed away from it.
20:44 mircea_popescu mod6 got al ink ?
20:48 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3506CFEBD2F41FA56B9A44F2C08E057D0F546A6D7330DB32905442CF2121BCB5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
20:48 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D2ADEF66CA1D7DF8DA07A26BBEE139A66EFEF7D6442471B5BA8512210D1A576F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.17.185 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.17.185 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
21:00 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs. << aha
21:01 mod6 <+asciilifeform> the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.) << would be great to start experimenting with this in '17
21:01 mircea_popescu word.
21:01 mircea_popescu tbh, if the "hdd" is correctly constructed (out of ssds, blockchain is the killer problem for ssds) then it should be so fucking fast...
21:02 mircea_popescu and no, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with "buy 64 ssd drives and raid them".
21:02 mod6 <+davout> did we just add tmsr-db on the todo? << there is a ticket for this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/trb_tickets.html#6
21:03 * asciilifeform uses ssd raid
↖
21:03 asciilifeform it's the correct way to use'em
21:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, but a raid controller that is made-for-our-purpose, and part of the whole stack all the way to db...
21:04 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 got al ink ? << i'll dig it up once im caught up here...
21:04 mircea_popescu kk
21:04 asciilifeform worx even with ancient controllers.
21:04 mircea_popescu im sure it does.
21:17 mod6 ok here's one part:
21:17 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174421
21:17 a111 Logged on 2015-06-24 18:31 mod6: ascii_field: re: checkpoints: the patch worked fine to remove checkpoints, but it was tabled for the time being. the main discussion around this was that it could be helpful to hvae checkpoints in there to prevent spamming of blocks from timestamps before a checkpoint.
21:17 mod6 and it kinda continues from there, so worth a bit of a read
21:18 mod6 which i guess was all in response to alf's question just above: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408
21:18 a111 Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
21:21 mod6 also, iirc around the same time there was much ado about the wedge @ 168`001 or whatever it was... but that turned out to be the database locking issue.
21:21 mircea_popescu mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion.
21:21 mircea_popescu aha.
21:22 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion. << aha, now i recall. I think the suggestion was that one could, from a config file, turn checkpoints on or off, or add new ones if they wished.
21:23 mod6 lemme see if I can dig that part up too.
21:23 mircea_popescu well, it was more like "should be exposed to user, WHAT checkpoint to use". ie same as here.
21:25 mod6 yeah. ok, it merits a ticket in the project.
21:25 mircea_popescu prolly mature enough by now i guess. anyway shouldn't be a huge thing.
21:26 mod6 fair enough.
21:27 mod6 !%help
21:28 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586446 << i think you mentioned before, but you had some sikrit hardware raid that you were reasonably happy with? i've been doing some cleanup on my data, throwing out old usb drives and such, i've been meaning to replace software raid (which is ... spotty) with something that i don't have to think about
21:28 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 02:03 asciilifeform uses ssd raid
21:28 asciilifeform phf: 3ware
21:29 phf thanks
21:29 mod6 !%a trb F "Configure Checkpoints by Configuration File" "Allow for a user to set a given checkpoint within a configuration file. See discussion: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586436"
21:30 mod6 !%p trb 34
21:30 tb0t Project: trb, ID: 34, Type: F, Subject: Configure Checkpoints by Configuration File, Antecedents: , Notes: Allow for a user to set a given checkpoint within a configuration file. See discussion: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586436
21:30 mod6 alright, good enough for the moment.
21:32 * mod6 is still working on a public/private project-a-tron, making decent progress.
~ 29 minutes ~
22:02 asciilifeform unrelated, and of 'historical' interest, http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/yoke.jpg << first FUCKGOATS slave yoke test, from last week.
22:03 asciilifeform (the fat connector is a chained jtag for handy simultaneous reflash of both yoked units)
22:04 asciilifeform the loose-hanging wires - were attached to logic analyzer, which had to visit bench in other room when this pic was taken.
22:05 asciilifeform btw if anyone knows where one might buy breadboard bigger than this, i'm all ears.
22:05 asciilifeform afaik they don't exist.
~ 30 minutes ~
22:36 asciilifeform in other olds, http://trilema.com/2015/open-parasitic-p2p-relay/#comment-120120 .
~ 27 minutes ~
23:03 mircea_popescu o hey.
23:04 mircea_popescu mod6 nice!
23:10 mircea_popescu dude check them out they deliver 19k mah out of a 100g package.
23:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, it is lovely, a FUCKGOATS rng board could run for year+ on one.
23:19 mircea_popescu pretty cool
23:19 asciilifeform and the bugger runs a-ok at -55C.
23:19 asciilifeform which afaik no other battery does.
23:19 mircea_popescu yeah just great.
23:20 asciilifeform funnily enough, at my first paying jerb i used up dozens of these batteries, electric pipette ran on'em, and i had nfi why they were interesting other than 'bitch to get'
23:20 asciilifeform (why the 'rainin' pipette ran on them, i have nfi to this very day, ask the french not me)
23:21 asciilifeform oh huh, looks like mettler toledo bought'em
23:32 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1B818C00C15B84948FE638F6B6807D375844F2FFB3CD6F5DE491197ECA2E46E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1525...4857 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.18.75.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.18.75.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SK KI)
23:32 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/511D245CC07601CF0039D42DB5CAF4B37B9D40851F889F0A8C126563C0E7C906 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1354...0297 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.124.187.244 (ssh-rsa key from 123.124.187.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 11)
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