| 15:07 |
amberglint |
asciilifeform: hi, are you still reading this channel? I didn't see any response to my latest message on loggers |
| 15:09 |
asciilifeform |
wb amberglint |
| 15:09 |
asciilifeform |
yes still reading |
| 15:09 |
asciilifeform |
it's a hot spare for the pestnet |
| 15:10 |
amberglint |
asciilifeform: apparently someone imaged an Ivory and promises to post pics soon: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36642581 |
| 15:11 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-07-08#1115091 << wasn't me (maybe phf?) |
| 15:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2023-07-08 11:28:04 amberglint: asciilifeform: were you the one who gave him an Ivory? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36642581 |
| 15:11 |
asciilifeform |
i haven't very many to spare , and quite reluctant to give to 'maaaaybe i'll decap without smashing it and maybe sometime will post pics that may nor may not be suitable for reversing' folx |
| 15:12 |
amberglint |
I thought so, but there aren't many people with stashes of them :) |
| 15:13 |
amberglint |
there were a couple of related auctions recently, with obscene prices |
| 15:13 |
amberglint |
one for a MacIvory, another for an XL1201 |
| 15:14 |
amberglint |
the XL1201 had a faulty console and was missing a mouse |
| 15:14 |
asciilifeform |
i have 1 working one in a machine, a pre-release chip, and anuther 2 of the type in the machine |
| 15:14 |
asciilifeform |
amberglint: saw the auctions. australia d00d |
| 15:14 |
amberglint |
yeah, him |
| 15:14 |
amberglint |
I offered the best price I could for a MacIvory but was turned down |
| 15:14 |
asciilifeform |
err, 3 spares of the type in the box |
| 15:15 |
* |
asciilifeform tried as recently as last yr to work out a deal with a microscopy shop but fell through |
| 15:16 |
amberglint |
did you do any work on a testbench with the secret docs provided by phf? |
| 15:16 |
asciilifeform |
amberglint: sadly nope, not had time |
| 15:21 |
asciilifeform |
as i understand, it may very well take at least 3-4 (if not moar) dies to get a proper image of all layers |
| 15:21 |
amberglint |
is it possible to at least extract the microcode ROM from the first die? |
| 15:22 |
* |
asciilifeform found out that one can rent time on electron microscope at the uni he lives next to, but they haven't a decapping facility |
| 15:22 |
asciilifeform |
amberglint: the rom mask is public (in fact is in the genera cd iirc) |
| 15:22 |
amberglint |
oh |
| 15:22 |
asciilifeform |
( see also ) |
| 15:22 |
dulapbot |
(pest) 2022-11-02 asciilifeform: phf: re microcode btw: there's a 'si:read-rom-word' in genera/distribution/sys/sys/wired.lisp . seems to eat argument n and walk out nth word of the rom. ( not tried it on mine yet ) |
| 15:23 |
asciilifeform |
^ can read out the 1 from yer particular unit if you've a working box |
| 15:23 |
* |
asciilifeform not knows whether same on all released versions |
| 15:23 |
amberglint |
I presume there is zero leaked information on the format of this ROM |
| 15:23 |
asciilifeform |
the microcode isn't worth much w/out reversing the die tho |
| 15:26 |
amberglint |
I can't remember, do you already have a copy of the paper "The Symbolics Ivory Design and Verification Strategy"? |
| 15:26 |
asciilifeform |
not sure |
| 15:27 |
* |
asciilifeform suspects that to this day, no 1 person has 1) sufficient bolix dies + 2) the moneys + 3) the time/inclination for proper reversing. not knows how to fix this tho. aint about to send priceless irons to some rando without any obligations |
| 15:30 |
amberglint |
asciilifeform: in case if you don't have it, someone scanned it recently: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gjyrkomdrxx7rx9py3n6f/ivory-design-verification.zip?rlkey=km0i1o7vysxzbzfr4lfeb6e9a&dl=0 |
| 15:31 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm loox familiar |
| 15:37 |
* |
asciilifeform replied to forum thrd fwiw |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
| 15:53 |
amberglint |
have you seen this talk? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uljtqyBLxI seems to be the last attempt to put hardware GC in commercial hw, so far |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
| 16:12 |
amberglint |
I was recently surprised to discover that the Genera 8.3 ISO has some source code that's not in the more widely-distributed leak |
| 16:12 |
amberglint |
Symbolics C, Pascal, Fortran iirc |
| 16:13 |
amberglint |
some graphics card drivers |
| 16:14 |
amberglint |
unfortunately not for the latest(?) one, the Framethrower - this one only has binaries in both distributions |
| 16:21 |
asciilifeform |
hmm pretty sure i had 8.3 but not noticed these |
| 16:21 |
asciilifeform |
not seen the gc talk (will watch at some pt) |
| 16:23 |
amberglint |
"<palter> There was a release, Genera 8.3 I think, where we "accidentally" released all the sources to our customers because we were afraid we were going to go out of business and it would've been lost." |
| 16:24 |
amberglint_ |
oops, something happened to my link, sorry |
| 16:25 |
amberglint_ |
resending: I tried to diff after reading this message from Gary Palter |
| 16:26 |
asciilifeform |
amberglint_: here's the 8.3 isos if you dun have'em |
| 16:27 |
amberglint_ |
asciilifeform: yes, this is the exact iso I checked |
| 16:27 |
* |
asciilifeform has the Official physical disks, but not checked whether these differ from above |
| 16:27 |
asciilifeform |
amberglint_: did the ns src turn up in there too ? |
| 16:27 |
* |
asciilifeform not looked |
| 16:27 |
amberglint_ |
sadly no |
| 16:27 |
asciilifeform |
a |
| 16:27 |
amberglint_ |
no NS source, this was my first thing to check |
| 16:28 |
amberglint_ |
there wasn't any trace of NS on that iso at all |
| 16:28 |
asciilifeform |
evidently not 'all the sources' then, yea |
| 16:32 |
amberglint_ |
asciilifeform: it's nice to chat with you, I have to go now, bye! |
| 16:32 |
asciilifeform |
thx amberglint_ |