Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2021-05-08 | 2021-05-10 →
11:26 billymg good morning, asciilifeform. my crawler seems to have hit a spam vein on the network, total unique IPs in the db exploded over the last two days to over 100k (these all come only from what a node returns in a 'getaddr' request). of those, when subsequently interrogated, only 8580 respond with a valid version message
11:27 billymg have a look at some of the results -- there's an interesting pattern wrt number of peers returned
11:29 billymg the ~8500 "actual" nodes number seems to be inline with what heathen trackers report as the total number of nodes on the network (~9k), so i suspect the crawler is nearly complete in mapping out reachable nodes
~ 2 hours 57 minutes ~
14:27 asciilifeform billymg: really only makes sense to add ip to db once it answers at least once (rather than immediately when reported as peer)
14:32 billymg asciilifeform: sure, trivial to do that, but that wasn't my point
14:33 billymg what i found interesting is that only a handful of nodes on the network actually return peers
14:33 billymg and that of those, the ones that are not TRB, return a crapload of spam
14:34 asciilifeform billymg: unsurprise imho
14:34 billymg as if majority of nodes on network are in a sort of "client only" mode, receiving peers from this small group of mega spam nodes
14:34 billymg asciilifeform: agree
14:35 asciilifeform billymg: these are known as pseudonodes.
14:35 asciilifeform aka sybils.
14:35 asciilifeform ( see also illustration. )
14:36 asciilifeform billymg: btw 'Bad header length' is normally from timeout mid-reply
14:39 billymg asciilifeform: good to know
14:39 billymg asciilifeform: btw, reason i filtered those results only on peers > 1 is because all but handful of nodes returning only a single peer returned a non-self ip
14:40 billymg not sure if this something you've observed before, where node returns only one peer in response to getaddrs, and that peer is self
14:41 asciilifeform billymg: not observed this, but would guess some variety of pseudonoad
14:41 asciilifeform (neither trb nor any variety of prb iirc behaves this way)
14:42 billymg in my results 2691 nodes returning a single (self) peer
14:42 asciilifeform billymg: did these have anyffin else in common ? ( useragent ? )
14:42 billymg lemme check..
14:48 billymg asciilifeform: nothing that's really jumping out, user agents seem inline with overall network distribution (i.e. mostly satoshi 0.20, 0.21, a few 19s, 18s, 17s)
14:50 * asciilifeform currently has no solid theory for these
14:57 billymg regarding the lack of surprise to the network being, in practice, centralized, this is true for folks following along, but i doubt it is widely known
14:57 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 14:34:40 asciilifeform: billymg: unsurprise imho
14:57 snsabot (trilema) 2015-07-08 asciilifeform: it's where i describe how bitcoin is not actually decentralized at all, but depends on a thoroughly usgificated network of political clocks
15:00 billymg my goal in making this crawler is to get more "bitcoiners" running trb nodes, and i suspect some al gore / nate silver stats and infograffix will widen the pool of those who see there is a problem
15:01 billymg and for me, just seeing that table sorted by len(peers) desc made it plainly, undeniably obvious that trb nodes are the only real nodes on the network
15:04 asciilifeform billymg: the most interesting/sinister fact is that the miners aint exactly trb (given as they appear to enforce the segshit nonsense, so far w/out any sign of rebellion) but factually trb-compat. from a connectivity pov
15:05 asciilifeform (or at the very least -- compatible w/ some client which in turn is able to speak to trb)
15:05 asciilifeform 1 of asciilifeform's objectives in his (unfinished) attempt at billymg-style crawler, was to map out the net and infer whatever is possible to infer re block propagation and what sort of item the miners (or miner-adjacent publicly-facing noades) are using
15:08 billymg asciilifeform: at the moment i've started writing the flask frontend for this so i can get the live updated stats up somewhere public
15:08 asciilifeform neato!
15:08 billymg as soon as that's up will publish genesis for the crawler portion
15:09 billymg probably the www too, why not
15:10 billymg asciilifeform: from there if you added some watchglass methods for getting blocks i could then incorporate those into the crawler (if that is what you meant by trying to analyze block propagation)
15:10 asciilifeform billymg: to request a block, you need its hash, and the latter gotta come from somewhere
15:11 billymg ahh
15:11 billymg so you need an actual node?
15:11 asciilifeform not necessarily.
15:11 asciilifeform or rather, not necessarily in realtime.
15:15 billymg asciilifeform: could something like this be used?
15:16 asciilifeform billymg: used where? trb supports no such thing
15:16 billymg i mean in watchglass, just to get the hash of a block so to request it
15:17 billymg for network scanning purposes only
15:17 asciilifeform billymg: recall that 'nth block' is defined via a rather complicated algo (executing which is large part of what a btc client does..)
15:18 asciilifeform if you want to scan for conformance to The One Troo Chain, gotta get the block hashes from an actual working client which tracks same
15:18 asciilifeform imho the 'cement' hashes would be 'good enuff' to distinguish block-storing nodes from cheap pseudos
15:19 billymg asciilifeform: yeah, that was the intent, just see if the node will send over a block, any block
15:19 billymg but i didn't think of the 'actually valid' in true chain problem
~ 16 minutes ~
15:35 asciilifeform billymg: in trb logs i regularly see 'martian' incoming attempted-block hashes
15:37 billymg asciilifeform: as in attempting to send you bogus blocks or requesting bogus blocks from you?
15:37 asciilifeform billymg: sending
15:38 asciilifeform (requesting nonexistent blocks aint a signallable condition, it happens regularly when diff. heights or 'frayed end')
15:39 billymg gotcha
15:49 mats whats the name of the phenomenon where folks are led to underprice risk because of safety features that reduce the need for operator attention (like tsla-style autopilot)?
15:49 mats i remember a discussion from many years ago about the subject in the logs but i'm having a hard time recalling relevant search keywords
~ 28 minutes ~
16:17 asciilifeform wb mats . 'risk homeostasis'.
16:25 mats thx pal
16:26 asciilifeform mats: np
16:28 fghj some aeons ago I tried to sync trb using 0.15 or 0.14 prb and it didn't work but 0.8.7 version could communicate with both prb and trb from what I recall
16:28 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 15:05:08 asciilifeform: (or at the very least -- compatible w/ some client which in turn is able to speak to trb)
16:28 asciilifeform welcome to #a, fghj . please briefly introduce yourself? (how found this ch?)
16:29 fghj I'm long time lurker from bitcoin assets days
16:29 asciilifeform fghj: indeed similar to my experience, the 10.x+ prb's tend to trip malleus and get disconnected.
16:29 asciilifeform fghj: aite. welcome.
16:29 asciilifeform fghj: btw there is also a (largely idle) #therealbitcoin .
16:30 asciilifeform ( log , ftr. )
16:31 fghj I think they stuff blocks with segshit data
16:32 asciilifeform fghj: segshit produces blox that are compatible (in the non-forking sense) w/ trb. simply shows up as 'anyone can spend' tx.
16:32 asciilifeform (also produces auxiliary turds that aint edible by trb, sent separately. hence 'segregated')
16:32 fghj I coudn't even manually feed blocks from prb to trb using bash one liners and rpc calls
16:33 asciilifeform fghj: iirc the liquishit gets stored past the 1e6byte mark. so theoretically could transform.
16:33 fghj cool will maybe try in future
16:34 asciilifeform i can't think of any reason to hand-feed prb-digested blocks into trb, tho
16:34 fghj I was on slow connection and using spinning rust
16:34 asciilifeform a
16:35 asciilifeform fghj: fwiw i still have a torrent up, with (most of, to date) blocks in ready-to-eat db
16:35 snsabot Logged on 2021-02-25 16:29:31 asciilifeform: dpb, shinohai, et al : and lemme know whether worx. plox to seed.
16:36 asciilifeform ( a number of people asked for it, given the atrociously slow default sync mechanism, and i finally caved & baked one )
16:37 fghj ok, gotta get some zs now, will at some point erect server again
16:46 verisimilitude It's a joke to call OpenBSD well documented.
~ 20 minutes ~
17:07 verisimilitude Using two keyboard layouts across two keyboards may as well be unsupported, and the man pages are useless.
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
18:15 trinque !w poll
18:15 watchglass Polling 16 nodes...
18:15 watchglass : Could not connect!
18:15 watchglass : Could not connect!
18:15 watchglass : Could not connect!
18:15 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824
18:15 watchglass : Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=682674
18:15 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824
18:15 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.113s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824
18:15 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 (Operator: asciilifeform)
18:15 watchglass : Alive: (0.178s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824
18:15 watchglass : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=682824 (Operator: whaack)
18:15 watchglass : Alive: (0.166s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824
18:16 watchglass : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: trinque)
18:16 trinque huh, that's weird
18:16 trinque the thing's up on my end, eating blox
~ 51 minutes ~
19:07 whaack asciilifeform: I've been meaning to ask, what does the Return Addr= and Jumpers=0x1 mean?
19:21 whaack also, does anyone have a guide handy for setting up sbcl on one of ascii's gentoo distros?
~ 18 minutes ~
19:39 trinque no guide, but sbcl can bootstrap from clisp
19:39 trinque such that you don't have to use some mystery meat binary to do so.
~ 17 minutes ~
19:56 billymg whaack: jumpers advertise "services" of a node, see
19:59 billymg and per watchglass code, return addr is the responding node's 'addr_from' (the IP it claims as its own in its version message), which watchglass displays only if different than the ip used to connect to that node
20:06 whaack billymg: Ah thanks, so then I guess the return address may be because I'm running on the same network as watchglass
20:11 billymg whaack: strangely enough i'm seeing the same results for your node on my end
~ 53 minutes ~
21:04 gregorynyssa << never heard of that comic until now. this instalment was genuinely funny:
21:04 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 14:35:43 asciilifeform: ( see also illustration. )
21:05 gregorynyssa (unfortunately, most of the other instalments were too gross and lascivious to read.)
21:08 gregorynyssa << is the term pseudo-node synonymous with "light node," or does it refer to a class of programs created specifically for nefarious purposes?
21:08 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 14:35:15 asciilifeform: billymg: these are known as pseudonodes.
~ 23 minutes ~
21:32 trinque gregorynyssa: oh stop
21:32 trinque "gross and lascivious"
~ 30 minutes ~
22:03 gregorynyssa << hurt my eyes lol
22:03 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 21:32:51 trinque: "gross and lascivious"
~ 48 minutes ~
22:52 trinque is there a religious reason for the aversion? I find most of her comics downright hilarious.
22:53 trinque << possibly one of the best
23:02 gregorynyssa << hard to say. I feel as if, I did not so much conform to a religion, as notice the existence of one or more religions which conformed to me.
23:02 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 22:52:17 trinque: is there a religious reason for the aversion? I find most of her comics downright hilarious.
23:07 trinque this was discomfort at other people's fun, or what?
23:08 gregorynyssa << not really. are you deliberately trying to reference that quote by HL Mencken?
23:08 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-09 23:07:21 trinque: this was discomfort at other people's fun, or what?
23:09 trinque I'm unaware of the reference.
23:10 gregorynyssa trinque:
23:11 trinque ha, but that's well said.
23:11 trinque I imagine puritanism will be resurging in popularity after this meager plague.
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