11:26 |
billymg |
good morning, asciilifeform. my crawler seems to have hit a spam vein on the network, total unique IPs in the db exploded over the last two days to over 100k (these all come only from what a node returns in a 'getaddr' request). of those, when subsequently interrogated, only 8580 respond with a valid version message |
11:27 |
billymg |
have a look at some of the results http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=hG11 -- there's an interesting pattern wrt number of peers returned |
11:29 |
billymg |
the ~8500 "actual" nodes number seems to be inline with what heathen trackers report as the total number of nodes on the network (~9k), so i suspect the crawler is nearly complete in mapping out reachable nodes |
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~ 2 hours 57 minutes ~ |
14:27 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: really only makes sense to add ip to db once it answers at least once (rather than immediately when reported as peer) |
14:32 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: sure, trivial to do that, but that wasn't my point |
14:33 |
billymg |
what i found interesting is that only a handful of nodes on the network actually return peers |
14:33 |
billymg |
and that of those, the ones that are not TRB, return a crapload of spam |
14:34 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: unsurprise imho |
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14:34 |
billymg |
as if majority of nodes on network are in a sort of "client only" mode, receiving peers from this small group of mega spam nodes |
14:34 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: agree |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: these are known as pseudonodes. |
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14:35 |
asciilifeform |
aka sybils. |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
( see also illustration. ) |
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14:36 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: btw 'Bad header length' is normally from timeout mid-reply |
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14:39 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: good to know |
14:39 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: btw, reason i filtered those results only on peers > 1 is because all but handful of nodes returning only a single peer returned a non-self ip http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ljL4 |
14:40 |
billymg |
not sure if this something you've observed before, where node returns only one peer in response to getaddrs, and that peer is self |
14:41 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: not observed this, but would guess some variety of pseudonoad |
14:41 |
asciilifeform |
(neither trb nor any variety of prb iirc behaves this way) |
14:42 |
billymg |
in my results 2691 nodes returning a single (self) peer |
14:42 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: did these have anyffin else in common ? ( useragent ? ) |
14:42 |
billymg |
lemme check.. |
14:48 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: nothing that's really jumping out, user agents seem inline with overall network distribution (i.e. mostly satoshi 0.20, 0.21, a few 19s, 18s, 17s) |
14:50 |
* |
asciilifeform currently has no solid theory for these |
14:57 |
billymg |
regarding the lack of surprise to the network being, in practice, centralized, this is true for folks following along, but i doubt it is widely known |
14:57 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 14:34:40 asciilifeform: billymg: unsurprise imho |
14:57 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2015-07-08 asciilifeform: it's where i describe how bitcoin is not actually decentralized at all, but depends on a thoroughly usgificated network of political clocks |
15:00 |
billymg |
my goal in making this crawler is to get more "bitcoiners" running trb nodes, and i suspect some al gore / nate silver stats and infograffix will widen the pool of those who see there is a problem |
15:01 |
billymg |
and for me, just seeing that table sorted by len(peers) desc made it plainly, undeniably obvious that trb nodes are the only real nodes on the network |
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15:04 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: the most interesting/sinister fact is that the miners aint exactly trb (given as they appear to enforce the segshit nonsense, so far w/out any sign of rebellion) but factually trb-compat. from a connectivity pov |
15:05 |
asciilifeform |
(or at the very least -- compatible w/ some client which in turn is able to speak to trb) |
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↖ |
15:05 |
asciilifeform |
1 of asciilifeform's objectives in his (unfinished) attempt at billymg-style crawler, was to map out the net and infer whatever is possible to infer re block propagation and what sort of item the miners (or miner-adjacent publicly-facing noades) are using |
15:08 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: at the moment i've started writing the flask frontend for this so i can get the live updated stats up somewhere public |
15:08 |
asciilifeform |
neato! |
15:08 |
billymg |
as soon as that's up will publish genesis for the crawler portion |
15:09 |
billymg |
probably the www too, why not |
15:10 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: from there if you added some watchglass methods for getting blocks i could then incorporate those into the crawler (if that is what you meant by trying to analyze block propagation) |
15:10 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: to request a block, you need its hash, and the latter gotta come from somewhere |
15:11 |
billymg |
ahh |
15:11 |
billymg |
so you need an actual node? |
15:11 |
asciilifeform |
not necessarily. |
15:11 |
asciilifeform |
or rather, not necessarily in realtime. |
15:15 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: could something like this be used? https://github.com/Blockstream/esplora/blob/master/API.md#get-blockhash |
15:16 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: used where? trb supports no such thing |
15:16 |
billymg |
i mean in watchglass, just to get the hash of a block so to request it |
15:17 |
billymg |
for network scanning purposes only |
15:17 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: recall that 'nth block' is defined via a rather complicated algo (executing which is large part of what a btc client does..) |
15:18 |
asciilifeform |
if you want to scan for conformance to The One Troo Chain, gotta get the block hashes from an actual working client which tracks same |
15:18 |
asciilifeform |
imho the 'cement' hashes would be 'good enuff' to distinguish block-storing nodes from cheap pseudos |
15:19 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: yeah, that was the intent, just see if the node will send over a block, any block |
15:19 |
billymg |
but i didn't think of the 'actually valid' in true chain problem |
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~ 16 minutes ~ |
15:35 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: in trb logs i regularly see 'martian' incoming attempted-block hashes |
15:37 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: as in attempting to send you bogus blocks or requesting bogus blocks from you? |
15:37 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: sending |
15:38 |
asciilifeform |
(requesting nonexistent blocks aint a signallable condition, it happens regularly when diff. heights or 'frayed end') |
15:39 |
billymg |
gotcha |
15:49 |
mats |
whats the name of the phenomenon where folks are led to underprice risk because of safety features that reduce the need for operator attention (like tsla-style autopilot)? |
15:49 |
mats |
i remember a discussion from many years ago about the subject in the logs but i'm having a hard time recalling relevant search keywords |
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~ 28 minutes ~ |
16:17 |
asciilifeform |
wb mats . 'risk homeostasis'. |
16:25 |
mats |
thx pal |
16:26 |
asciilifeform |
mats: np |
16:28 |
fghj |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-09#1035987 some aeons ago I tried to sync trb using 0.15 or 0.14 prb and it didn't work but 0.8.7 version could communicate with both prb and trb from what I recall |
16:28 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 15:05:08 asciilifeform: (or at the very least -- compatible w/ some client which in turn is able to speak to trb) |
16:28 |
asciilifeform |
welcome to #a, fghj . please briefly introduce yourself? (how found this ch?) |
16:29 |
fghj |
I'm long time lurker from bitcoin assets days |
16:29 |
asciilifeform |
fghj: indeed similar to my experience, the 10.x+ prb's tend to trip malleus and get disconnected. |
16:29 |
asciilifeform |
fghj: aite. welcome. |
16:29 |
asciilifeform |
fghj: btw there is also a (largely idle) #therealbitcoin . |
16:30 |
asciilifeform |
( log , ftr. ) |
16:31 |
fghj |
I think they stuff blocks with segshit data |
16:32 |
asciilifeform |
fghj: segshit produces blox that are compatible (in the non-forking sense) w/ trb. simply shows up as 'anyone can spend' tx. |
16:32 |
asciilifeform |
(also produces auxiliary turds that aint edible by trb, sent separately. hence 'segregated') |
16:32 |
fghj |
I coudn't even manually feed blocks from prb to trb using bash one liners and rpc calls |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
fghj: iirc the liquishit gets stored past the 1e6byte mark. so theoretically could transform. |
16:33 |
fghj |
cool will maybe try in future |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
i can't think of any reason to hand-feed prb-digested blocks into trb, tho |
16:34 |
fghj |
I was on slow connection and using spinning rust |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
a |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
fghj: fwiw i still have a torrent up, with (most of, to date) blocks in ready-to-eat db |
16:35 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-25 16:29:31 asciilifeform: dpb, shinohai, et al : http://dulap.xyz/pub/trbdb.torrent and lemme know whether worx. plox to seed. |
16:36 |
asciilifeform |
( a number of people asked for it, given the atrociously slow default sync mechanism, and i finally caved & baked one ) |
16:37 |
fghj |
ok, gotta get some zs now, will at some point erect server again |
16:46 |
verisimilitude |
It's a joke to call OpenBSD well documented. |
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~ 20 minutes ~ |
17:07 |
verisimilitude |
Using two keyboard layouts across two keyboards may as well be unsupported, and the man pages are useless. |
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~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~ |
18:15 |
trinque |
!w poll |
18:15 |
watchglass |
Polling 16 nodes... |
18:15 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
18:15 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
18:15 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
18:15 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 |
18:15 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=682674 |
18:15 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 |
18:15 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.113s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 |
18:15 |
watchglass |
108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
18:15 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.178s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 |
18:15 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=682824 (Operator: whaack) |
18:15 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.166s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682824 |
18:16 |
watchglass |
24.28.108.235:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: trinque) |
18:16 |
trinque |
huh, that's weird |
18:16 |
trinque |
the thing's up on my end, eating blox |
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~ 51 minutes ~ |
19:07 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: I've been meaning to ask, what does the Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 and Jumpers=0x1 mean? |
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19:21 |
whaack |
also, does anyone have a guide handy for setting up sbcl on one of ascii's gentoo distros? |
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~ 18 minutes ~ |
19:39 |
trinque |
no guide, but sbcl can bootstrap from clisp |
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↖ |
19:39 |
trinque |
such that you don't have to use some mystery meat binary to do so. |
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~ 17 minutes ~ |
19:56 |
billymg |
whaack: jumpers advertise "services" of a node, see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_documentation#version |
19:59 |
billymg |
and per watchglass code, return addr is the responding node's 'addr_from' (the IP it claims as its own in its version message), which watchglass displays only if different than the ip used to connect to that node |
20:06 |
whaack |
billymg: Ah thanks, so then I guess the return address may be 0.0.0.0 because I'm running on the same network as watchglass |
20:11 |
billymg |
whaack: strangely enough i'm seeing the same results for your node on my end http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=v0YN |
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~ 53 minutes ~ |
21:04 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-09#1035969 << never heard of that comic until now. this instalment was genuinely funny: https://imgur.com/a/nNVx7yb |
21:04 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 14:35:43 asciilifeform: ( see also illustration. ) |
21:05 |
gregorynyssa |
(unfortunately, most of the other instalments were too gross and lascivious to read.) |
21:08 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-09#1035967 << is the term pseudo-node synonymous with "light node," or does it refer to a class of programs created specifically for nefarious purposes? |
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21:08 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 14:35:15 asciilifeform: billymg: these are known as pseudonodes. |
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~ 23 minutes ~ |
21:32 |
trinque |
gregorynyssa: oh stop |
21:32 |
trinque |
"gross and lascivious" |
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~ 30 minutes ~ |
22:03 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-09#1036071 << hurt my eyes lol |
22:03 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 21:32:51 trinque: "gross and lascivious" |
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~ 48 minutes ~ |
22:52 |
trinque |
is there a religious reason for the aversion? I find most of her comics downright hilarious. |
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22:53 |
trinque |
https://www.oglaf.com/son-of-kronar/ << possibly one of the best |
23:02 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-09#1036074 << hard to say. I feel as if, I did not so much conform to a religion, as notice the existence of one or more religions which conformed to me. |
23:02 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 22:52:17 trinque: is there a religious reason for the aversion? I find most of her comics downright hilarious. |
23:07 |
trinque |
this was discomfort at other people's fun, or what? |
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↖ |
23:08 |
gregorynyssa |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-09#1036078 << not really. are you deliberately trying to reference that quote by HL Mencken? |
23:08 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-09 23:07:21 trinque: this was discomfort at other people's fun, or what? |
23:09 |
trinque |
I'm unaware of the reference. |
23:10 |
gregorynyssa |
trinque: https://imgur.com/a/aV7b7rR |
23:11 |
trinque |
ha, but that's well said. |
23:11 |
trinque |
I imagine puritanism will be resurging in popularity after this meager plague. |