Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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09:51 asciilifeform !w poll
09:51 watchglass Polling 11 nodes...
09:51 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:51 watchglass 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.097s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999 (Operator: asciilifeform)
09:51 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635955
09:51 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.147s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:51 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.147s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999 (Operator: asciilifeform)
09:51 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:51 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.226s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:51 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.228s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:51 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.364s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:51 watchglass 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.329s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=635999
09:52 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
10:02 asciilifeform meanwhile in comment lulz.
~ 42 minutes ~
10:44 shinohai 'tis impossible to convince torfags they aren't safe.
10:53 asciilifeform shinohai: imho the underlying disease is 'anonfag'
10:55 asciilifeform ( not all 'anonfag' suffer from torism -- some, from vpnism; some from both )
10:58 asciilifeform the lulziest dissonance is when you ask'em 'so, for what great deeds is yer stack of 17 vpn cum tor' usually silence. 'but wainot admit, yer anon or no ?'
10:59 shinohai I thought it pretty lulzy he mentioned "imageboards" as great hangout.
10:59 asciilifeform you can laff at e.g. boko haram soldiers and their 'invincibility amulets', but ~their~ amulets 'work', i.e. they have courage. but 'anonfag' has amulet but somehow no courage..
~ 24 minutes ~
11:24 superkuh Yeah, using a domain you lease on whim from an entity that can revoke it at any time is so much more secure.
11:24 superkuh Silly onions.
11:24 superkuh Who wants to control their own domain?
~ 47 minutes ~
12:12 asciilifeform superkuh: dnsism is certainly even moar egregious scam (even costs $)
~ 24 minutes ~
12:36 thimbronion slatestarcodex blog deleted: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/anonymous-psychiatrist-deletes-rationalist-blog-after-ny-times-threatens-doxing
12:40 thimbronion I suppose the hundred flowers campaign is coming to and end.
12:41 asciilifeform thimbronion: fella was an obnoxious establishment tool, and imho even now 'made own bed' :
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12:41 asciilifeform 'Last week I talked to a New York Times technology reporter who was planning to write a story on Slate Star Codex. He told me it would be a mostly positive piece about how we were an interesting gathering place for people in tech, and how we were ahead of the curve on some aspects of the coronavirus situation. It probably would have been a very nice article.'
12:42 asciilifeform ( from his tombstone www )
12:44 thimbronion lol can't read because of some sort of cached nonsense from when archive.is was failing during my last crawl.
12:44 asciilifeform thimbronion: txt
12:45 thimbronion clownfront
12:45 asciilifeform aha, it loads maybe 1 in 3 times here
12:48 * asciilifeform despised 'slatestar', saw him as suspiciously timely 'replacement' for the disappeared 'last psychiatrist', and artfully 'tame opposition'. who, on top of this, surrounded himself w/ obnoxious turds who escaped from the 'rationalist' cult when the latter imploded
12:49 thimbronion asciilifeform: I couldn't make it through a single article
12:51 asciilifeform 'rezistenţa prin cultură' fuckwit. i hope they break him on the wheel at time square.
12:53 asciilifeform as if even small children dun know that one talks to reporter only w/ lawyer present, and, if force to speak, only must give name/rank/serial#...
12:54 asciilifeform 'errything you say will be used against you...'
~ 21 minutes ~
13:15 verisimilitude Is it agreed upon here that Tor can be useful against a non-governmental actor?
13:16 verisimilitude I quite like anonymous imageboards and like forums, but I understand they're not for everyone. If real work is done, identities certainly begin to rise out of the anonymous quagmire.
13:16 asciilifeform verisimilitude: depends what means 'useful'. it was once great for spam, for instance, until folx realized that you can download the exit noad list and throw it straight into iptables ban list
13:17 verisimilitude It's useful if the average joe can't connect messages, say; this usually requires voluntarily accepting Tor posting.
13:18 asciilifeform verisimilitude: at one pt as part of asciilifeform's official duties, he collected virii. sometimes $turd would be set up so as to only load from $country's ip blocks. in these cases used tor + perlscript
13:18 verisimilitude I agree the ``development model'' of accruing garbage onto garbage, where the history is a list of tweaks, is poor. Further, it encourages an idiotic ``debugging'' model for those too stupid to use real debuggers, ``Oh, it didn't work, well then just revert the change. It's not like the flaw was latent.''.
13:22 asciilifeform verisimilitude: why do you think that 'avg joe' can't set up exit nodes and log traffic ? say yer budget is 500 $ / mo. you can get coupla Gb/s connection. it'll catch maybe 1% of traffic. statistically, in month or 2, you'll get the victim you intended (if in fact intended specific one), and at any rate 'over 9000' login/pw pairs and whatever oh-so-'private' traffic from lamers in there
13:22 asciilifeform for extra bonus, strip off any sslism present -- roughly 1 in 3 idiots dun notice
13:22 asciilifeform infect winblows .exe's en route. no shortage of possibilities.
13:22 verisimilitude I'm doubtful of these claims, firstly, and the average joe couldn't and wouldn't.
13:22 asciilifeform best cure for doubt is to try w/ own hands.
13:23 verisimilitude Part of my point is if the traffic isn't ``life or death'', then it doesn't matter to start with; it certainly does work on the average joe.
13:23 asciilifeform ( observe that none of the above even requires knowledge of whatever 'heartbleeds' present in the garbage coad )
13:23 verisimilitude Were I to be plotting some illegal activity, I certainly wouldn't rely solely on Tor; that would be stupid.
13:24 asciilifeform verisimilitude: if 'doesn't matter to start with' then why the hell put it through a snail's pace chain of proxies ??
13:24 verisimilitude It prevents lesser surveillance is why.
13:24 verisimilitude The ISP is unaware, the visited domains are, etc.
13:25 verisimilitude I do very little browsing where I'm ``logged in''.
13:25 asciilifeform 9000 bozos w/ logging exit nodes instead aware. so i dun see how and what 'prevents'.
13:26 verisimilitude What's the opinion on I2P, then?
13:26 * asciilifeform personally doubts that there is 1 single exit noad that doesn't tcpdump. ( and, on top of which, there isn't a usg dumper upstream -- the list is after all public )
13:26 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i have not used i2p and have no opinion
13:26 verisimilitude Alright.
13:26 asciilifeform tor -- used, dissected, abused.
13:27 verisimilitude Well, I'm not doing anything illegal, and it prevents normal people from being able to trace back to me, so it's at least fine for this.
13:28 verisimilitude There's nothing really to discuss, I suppose; I can't claim to have read and validated Tor, nor most of the software I use, but I'm still doubtful about these claims.
13:28 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i dun expect you to take my word for it. the nice thing re softs is that you can do own experiment inexpensively.
13:31 asciilifeform verisimilitude: outta curiosity, what do you expect 'normal people' to do supposing they were to 'trace back to you' ? shit in yer postbox ?
13:32 verisimilitude That's a good question; I've given it thought and, there's naught to do with the information anyway, really.
13:32 asciilifeform at least in e.g. the case of the prev. tor fella he was ashamed of being from nigeria. had ~some~ logic.
13:32 snsabot Logged on 2020-02-12 23:18:09 curiousd0g: it's nigeria
13:33 verisimilitude None of us are basing every one of our actions on logic, asciilifeform.
13:33 asciilifeform no one asked 'base all on logic!'. but occasionally why not think about what yer doing and why..
13:34 asciilifeform in ru there is traditional joke where 'have you heard of famous cowboy, Uncatchable Joe? no one's caught him yet...' 'because no one ever wanted to'
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13:34 verisimilitude I feel I've suitably explained my position; I'm not trying to change any opinions on it, really; I'm more simply not avoiding the topic.
13:34 verisimilitude That's a good joke.
13:35 asciilifeform folx who fixate on 'anonism' are wanking on 'mania of grandeur' imho
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13:37 verisimilitude I won't deny entertaining delusions.
13:38 verisimilitude I'd prefer to segue into the other topics, but I suppose there's nothing really to discuss with those, either.
13:39 verisimilitude The reimplementation of my machine code development tool is going well; I may have my article detailing its release soon.
13:40 verisimilitude It's the culmination of a decent amount of work, and it will be pleasant to have my ideas not only in a working program, as I've already this, but in a structured manner suitable for translation to yet greater structure. I may find myself writing another targeting soon after finishing this one.
13:48 asciilifeform verisimilitude: neato, will read
13:49 * asciilifeform still doesn't have a terminal that'll display apl glyphs, so hopefully not in apl..
~ 3 hours 9 minutes ~
16:59 verisimilitude I considered at least trying to write this in APL, years back, but APL lacks a character input primitive, which is necessary for this program, and I decided not to work around it and use a language already having such.
17:03 adlai I am quite certain that the author of the slatestarcodex actually explained in one of his early articles what trivial manipulation on his real name he used, and it was not difficult to find a likely suspect; naturally, this may have been deliberate disinformation.
17:03 asciilifeform adlai: d00d also apparently lives in a commune, w/ 2 dozen other cultists, who knew who he was
17:04 asciilifeform not exactly master spy opsec.
17:06 adlai asciilifeform: wrt:poetry, specifically english verse: I've been wondering whether you experienced the same nausea from that old invincible, Dr. Seuss
17:06 asciilifeform adlai: the one where 'i would not could not, in a boat, i would not, could not, with a goat...' ?
17:06 adlai none other!
17:06 asciilifeform some of him even ended up in ru translation
17:06 verisimilitude While I intend to eventually tie my work to my true identity, the present never seems a good time, even years back. Now the roving bands of retards are even worse.
17:07 * adlai originally encountered Dr. Seuss in Hebrew translation
17:08 asciilifeform adlai: doesn't surprise me
17:08 asciilifeform verisimilitude: what do you expect the 'roving bands' to do to you ?
17:08 asciilifeform other than insult
17:08 adlai asciilifeform: although Green Eggs and Ham (the source of your quote) I only read in the original
17:09 verisimilitude Well, as time passes, the thought of people having their homes set ablaze by the cretins seems increasingly closer.
17:09 asciilifeform adlai: pretty sure he's in erry single 'learn englisch' text on planet3
17:09 verisimilitude It's just a thought; there's little good in opening oneself to danger without commensurate reason.
17:09 asciilifeform verisimilitude: notice that they dun check 'but what's in his www?' before burning
17:11 adlai there is something quite bizarre about the use of nursery rhymes to teach adults a foreign language; sure, the nursery rhymes are pernicious earworms, but so are advertising jingles and pop muzak
17:13 asciilifeform adlai: afaik it's only done for english -- the english ~stopped writing poetry, other than for children, 100+y ago. and poem remains hands-down handiest way to teach pronunciation.
17:14 verisimilitude That seems unduly critical of English.
17:15 asciilifeform verisimilitude: can't speak for erryone, but e.g. asciilifeform was taught w/ 'the mouse ran up the clock...' by tutor w/ ~flawless 'bbc' voice. and then had to spend yrs relearning in usa..
17:15 verisimilitude I bemoan ebonics and similar attacks on the language, but that's a problem that probably must be solved with violence.
17:16 asciilifeform such problem always eventually solved. (if not necessarily in the direction you'd like, lol)
17:16 adlai ebonics is no more an attack on the english language, than speciation an attack on the genus
17:16 verisimilitude Oh, I agree that too many Americans hardly speak English.
17:17 verisimilitude Well, that's easy for an Israeli to claim, adlai.
17:17 adlai why?
17:17 verisimilitude The US unfortunately doesn't carry out many of the same social policies as Israel does.
17:18 verisimilitude Hebrew is also a language where many words have hundreds of ``spellings'', again making this less of an issue.
17:18 adlai fwiw, I've visited the states several times, occasionally for months consecutively, during the first two decades of my life
17:19 * asciilifeform was doing some hebrew, found quite frustrating the abundance of silent letters and englishesque permutations
17:19 verisimilitude In any case, languages do have a right and thus a wrong way to go about things.
17:20 verisimilitude There's a difference between a poet evolving a language and a negro ``enriching'' it.
17:20 adlai modern hebrew is quite a mess, yes.
17:20 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i suspect ~all of modern-day usa would sound 'ebonic' to e.g. kipling.
17:21 adlai remember, though, english itself arose from a patois between french and german
17:22 asciilifeform if interested in what english might've sounded like w/out the french conquest -- try iceland
17:22 verisimilitude There's a difference between how tolerable invaders and conquerors are. Some bring medicine and science, and others practice cannibalism and win by numbers.
17:23 verisimilitude It's a horrifying thought, to imagine I'll die with the world only slowly growing worse in my eyes.
17:23 asciilifeform verisimilitude: barbarians dun conquer in the usual sense -- they finish off half-dead civilizations
17:24 asciilifeform a la hyena
17:24 adlai the point and purpose of my speciation metaphor is that searchig for agency in an ongoing evolutionary process is not necessarily incorrect, although liable to flood you with false positives
17:25 asciilifeform 'why are flies eating me' 'cuz yer a corpse'
17:25 verisimilitude This is a depressing topic to reflect upon.
17:28 adlai recently I've begun reading Milton's "Paradise Lost", thus my revisiting of this topic
17:28 verisimilitude Anyway, my ideas on language are reflected in my eyes of how machines should store and manipulate text, which are on my website here and here.
17:29 verisimilitude I dislike using the same tool for writing and programming, dissatisfying both.
17:31 * adlai hopes verisimilitude can find the present trends less depressing by reducing personal affinity to a specific modern dialect; e.g., think of your inner voice's grammar as just being some beetle exploring the indo-european canopy, rather than a nest anchored to one specific fork
17:32 verisimilitude I really ``tone it down'' in this channel; this isn't near the full force of my opinion.
17:32 verisimilitude Notice I don't use ``you'' in the second-person singular pronoun sense in this channel; I avoid it. This is because I dislike the ambiguity it causes.
17:33 adlai incidentally, one of the most interesting conversations that I ever overheard was between two young israelis who were speaking modern hebrew with american ebonic inflection!
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17:34 verisimilitude If I can't express an idea to my satisfaction, I'll find a way to rephrase it. If I realize I've been speaking incorrectly, I'll change it rather than bemoan the language.
17:35 verisimilitude A recent occurence was wondering about my uses of ``alternate'' and ``alternative'', with the underlying rules being vague to me. I realized neither of these are nouns, the noun form being ``alternation'', so I corrected this mistake in my articles.
17:37 adlai IRC is actually one of the contexts where pronouns are usable without undue ambiguity.
17:37 verisimilitude There was once a time where I allowed the venue to influence my writing style, but I'll merely write it resulted in an unpleasant result, so now I don't change my writing style based on the venue.
17:38 verisimilitude It would be fine to not write in complete sentences, but I won't do that, either.
17:38 verisimilitude Precision in language helps bring precision in ideas, and so precision in actions, and so on.
17:38 adlai One "abuse of language" that seems about as old as history itself is using an adjective as a noun by eliding the noun modified
17:44 adlai verisimilitude: do you consider this a complete sentence: "Therefore, the great impression that classical thermodynamics made upon me." ?
17:46 * adlai has already found mutations in copies of the full quote! although none of the mutations changed the fact that "sentence just noun", if you will.
17:51 verisimilitude It's improper and leads to other abuses.
17:52 adlai your adherence to precision is admirable, verisimilitude, and although I personally do not share your distress, I can understand its origin.
17:52 verisimilitude As for the sentence, it doesn't seem to be to be complete, but if I'm wrong then there's nothing for me to disagree with.
17:53 adlai it is not quite a complete sentence, and I suspect that the author intentionally broke cadence to emphasize the weight of that impression.
17:54 adlai arguably, there is an elided "the existence of", after "Therefore,".
17:56 * adlai wanders off to argue with himself over an unfinished sonnet for some girl who probably doesn't quite deserve one, although a promise is a promise, even when it reveals the promittor's hopeless stupidity.
17:56 verisimilitude In any case, I don't yet anyway see particular value in a mechanism which attempts to force strict adherence to proper grammar; that doesn't mean it's unimportant, but merely so varied and irregular to a machine that it may not be worthwhile.
17:57 verisimilitude There can be emphasis in using improper grammar, and poets or creators coin new words, which is why my ideas of machine text have as the second layer a mechanism to use such new words not recognized by an authority.
18:00 feedbot http://mvdstandard.net/2020/06/cuidacoche-at-center-of-police-brutality-case-arrested-for-robbery/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Cuidacoche At Center Of "Police Brutality" Case Arrested For Robbery
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