#trilema | 2014-10-22

no mandatory cars to maintain

00:06

although let's be clear, i was just browsing the release notes. if there were breaking changes merged in since then, this'd be a lulzy way to surface them.

00:06

no confiscatory 'health care' ripoff

00:06

i could go on.

00:06

<mircea_popescu> anyway, the consensus seems to be 6.3 ? << i've yet to hear a compelling argument for anything past 0.5.3

00:07

ben_vulpes: let's put another way, lowest version you would be willing to use for daily life.

00:08

0.6.3 is?

00:08

i'm transitioning backwards asciilifeform

00:09

i still depend on the qt client. need to come up with a workflow that works for the 0.5.3 client.

00:09

but i don't see any roadblocks at this time.

00:09

i never really grasped what the gui was for

00:10

even winblows user could handily pop the dos shell and 'bitcoind sendtoaddress .....'

00:10

well, consider all the things i've been unlearning

00:10

you: grew up on lisp machine lore

00:10

nah

00:10

dug it up after uni

00:11

not even during.

00:11

i: solved quadratics by hand because programming solvers was taught to me to be cheating

00:11

*

asciilifeform also solved quadratics by hand because programming is a cheat

00:11

constraint problems, too?

00:11

ruler, pencil

00:12

not so odd.

00:12

not at all

00:12

but when you're taught that the right solution to all problems is to do it by hand, with the tools handed one by authority, unlearning that is hard

00:13

ergo, qt. at first, at least.

00:13

this seems like a bind until you realize that what is taught now is 'solve with unicorn tears, milked out of your arse'

00:13

ben_vulpes: so the main issue was the deps so far. i went to the deb site and it gave me some to add to the sources.list, but didn't seem to help. i can try something different tomorrow if you have suggestions.

00:14

mod6: which deps?

00:14

so we'll split the difference between 0.5.3 and 0.6.3, go with 0.5.8

00:14

;p

00:14

it's in the pastes.

00:15

aok

00:15

*

asciilifeform still puzzled that mircea_popescu won't pick a favourite here

00:15

what's in his patches anyway.

00:15

death ray plugin support?

00:15

maybe we start with defining what's in current that we don't want

00:16

next we become great sculptors. we buy a mountain of marble, and decide what's in there that we don't want.

00:16

molding bullets...

00:17

heh

00:18

qt gets cut

00:18

well, bv says 0.5.3 is minimum that will work

00:19

wallet retardation gets cut or reimplemented non retardedly

00:19

no cuts without which won't fly.

00:19

picture it's being sent to the past, for your ascension to godhood

00:19

publishing job in danger of morphing into coding job

00:20

oh sorry

00:20

nubbins i was just opining

00:20

!

00:20

also also also also

00:20

getting command line functionality on os x has been a headache every time i tried it

00:20

another reason this damn platform's doomed

00:21

wat.

00:21

ALSO STILL VULNERABLE TO SHELLSHOCK

00:21

i thought it had normal posix

00:21

^

00:21

*

asciilifeform owns one of these, treats it as a mildly retarded linux box with defective wm

00:21

*

asciilifeform blows dust off mac

00:22

*

ben_vulpes tries it again

00:23

*

asciilifeform begins to wonder if this escapade will end with him maintaining 0.wtf in some dark cloister, for food and water

00:23

install yr updates

00:23

asciilifeform: what release are you targeting?

00:24

that was the whole enigma

00:24

that's the question

00:24

i'm going for 0.5.3

00:24

somebody mentioned slow sync

00:24

let's use 0.9

00:25

slow sync, myriad crapolade

00:25

i was originally gonna ask for 0.1

00:25

*

ben_vulpes digs spare hdd out of closet for aux blockchain

00:25

let's get some big miners to give up their secret sauce

00:26

<ben_vulpes> <mircea_popescu> anyway, the consensus seems to be 6.3 ? << i've yet to hear a compelling argument for anything past 0.5.3 << ok, so 5.4

00:26

5.3*

00:26

isanyone

00:27

...is anyone able to express succinctly yet accurately why current release isn't okay?

00:27

mircea_popescu: care to drop even a small hint of what you're using? gizmo of own authorship? it isn't like you keep it hotwalleted, anyway

00:28

othernubs`, you're seriously suggesting using the "current" release ?

00:28

he creates raw tx using node.js script and sends to network via blockchain.info broadcast

00:28

using soviet mk-61 calculator.

00:28

<othernubs`> publishing job in danger of morphing into coding job <<< nubsy has antennae, and they're tuned for danger!

00:28

what's the issue with 0.5.3 ?

00:28

Apocalyptic, i'm attempting to guide the conversation towards stating what is and isn't desired in the codebase

00:29

othernubs`: picture if you were sending the damn thing back in time, to blaise p. for implementation on a gigantic Pascaline, or herr babbage, etc

00:29

ostensibly later versions have more bugfixes and improvements but also more cruft and potentially introduced attack vectors

00:29

othernubs` you'll never get there. but anyway : 0.6.3 most recent acceptable ; 0.5.3 i guess, earliest acceptable.

00:29

pick among these according to which bias (early, late) you want

00:29

*

asciilifeform always imagined that a pascaline ought really to be something akin to a guillotine

00:30

pick among << smallest!

00:30

easy.

00:30

then .5.3

00:30

also easy.

00:30

how the fuck it is code never shrinks ?

00:30

mine does.

00:30

feature spook

00:30

and herr dr moldbuggr claims that he does

00:31

;;google kelvin versioning

00:31

Moron Lab: January 2010: <http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html>; wintersmith-kelvin - npm: <https://www.npmjs.org/package/wintersmith-kelvin>; Software Installation & System Requirements | Kelvin TOP-SET ...: <http://www.kelvintopset.com/software-installation-system-requirements>

00:31

that.

00:31

so .6.3 fixes this: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-3789

00:31

CVE -CVE-2012-3789

00:31

.7 prob fixes something else serious

00:31

lol they assign cve for unknown gotcha through unknown mechanism!!?

00:31

0.5.6rc3 works

00:32

asciilifeform remember this suspicion for later.

00:32

'the doctor saved the patient's ear, but did pluck out his eye i fear'

00:32

ascii: lol i guess so

00:32

" and 0.6.x before 0.6.3rc1"

00:32

so 0.6.3 affected

00:32

wait, no.

00:33

it's the other way around heh

00:33

also .6.2 fixes some portability issues apparently (FreeBSD): https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.6.2

00:33

Bitcoin-Qt version 0.6.2 released

00:33

that isn't critical imo

00:33

just putting it out there.

00:33

this thing won't need bdb crapolade where it's going.

00:34

but all the semantics of original must be preserved, to begin.

00:34

asciilifeform and check out the cve link for details, going straight to an unmaintained dump page.

00:34

pretty funny behaviour huh.

00:34

mircea_popescu: typical, actually

00:34

no idea who/what it's supposed to help

00:34

mircea_popescu: incidentally, you probably know who 'mitre' is a shill for.

00:35

no idea.

00:35

ahahaha

00:35

'nonprofit' that's 99% dhs, dod, nsa by weight

00:35

MITRE Partners with University System of Maryland to Operate New Cybersecurity R&D Center for the National Institute of Standards and Technology ?

00:35

right here in town, yes

00:36

hey, more power to 'em.

00:37

pete_dushenski << http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/ tell garzik i said they missed the boat.

00:37

The future of Bitcoin regulation pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

00:37

a billion short a year late ? heh.

00:38

mircea_popescu lol will do. i remember that article well.

00:38

please to leave comment perhaps?

00:38

a quarter bn in 2014 ? seriously ? all into shit ?

00:38

he's gotta be kidding.

00:38

my twitter's dead and i don't feel like social media anyway

00:39

i meant on the blog.. but i see where you're going. i'll drop him a twit.

00:40

asciilifeform: what in place of bdb?

00:40

seems kinda redundant/spammy. next time.

00:40

ben_vulpes: now is not the time, i actually suggested the project not imagining it would be picked up so quickly

00:40

mmok.

00:40

i kinda want this for 6-9 mo. from now

00:40

i ain't picking up shit

00:40

just curious

00:41

othernubs` picked up

00:41

ah.

00:42

ball, meet rotational displacement

00:45

artifexd

<mircea_popescu> how the fuck it is code never shrinks ? << Code does shrink sometimes. But not due to concentration on features or bugs. If it happens, it happens because the developer grows and improves. One of my favorite days was deleting 60k lines of code that I had written and replacing it with 100 lines. Simpler. Faster. Easier to understand.

00:45

!s 50 mn

00:45

3 results for '50 mn' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=50+mn

00:45

artifexd: it takes willingness to admit one's own stupidity

00:45

code shrinks when a great fire is lit and all things that are vile and repugnant to the righteous are consumed in the flames.

00:45

as it screams, its sins are expurgated

00:47

!s best machine is no machine

00:47

2 results for 'best machine is no machine' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=best+machine+is+no+machine

00:48

'the tastiest fish in all the seas is called kolbasa [sausage]' -- my grandfather

00:50

i have a turkey kolbasa in the fridge

00:58

i am considering bisecting the codebase for building on os x

00:58

i also think that building on os x is a bad idea

00:59

this is where docker starts coming in handy: instead of burning many hours on chasing down platform and architecture details to get the thing to work on os x, i'm leaning towards just running 0.5.3 in a VM.

00:59

<mircea_popescu> 0.5.6rc3 works << enhanced sync speed?

01:00

doubt it.

01:00

but you don't want it to sync anyway, just feed it a preindexed chain.

01:04

preindexed by what?

01:04

$ cp ~/.bitcoin ~/.bitcoin-test && ./ancient-bitcoind -datadir ~/.bitcoin-test ?

01:04

surely it's not that easy

01:04

gotta sync

01:05

picture it being sent to earth of the recent past, that had all but bitcoin.

01:05

your book, sure.

01:05

cant you download a torrent?

01:05

torrent produced by what?

01:05

and does it result in a new torrent, modified?

01:06

I've just seen up to block 315k on tpb, but wasn't sure what the file format was

01:06

ben_vulpes you got no pre-hearn blockchain ?

01:06

what's with this pecular preoccupation with strange half-bitcoins

01:06

no sir

01:06

check my arrival date in -assets

01:06

am i the only one ?!

01:07

quite likely.

01:07

pre-hearn - what date

01:07

o.O

01:07

asciilifeform pre 7

01:07

i've one going since 2011

01:07

for whatever it's worth

01:08

about 30gb it's worth lol

01:08

*

asciilifeform thought blockchain was one for all of us, 'like victory'

01:09

it is, substantially, but it's indexed differently for the latecomers.

01:09

any semantics not preserved ?

01:09

well, bdb stuff.

01:10

and i imagine they probably did all the shitting they can

01:10

how do you make a torrent anyway ?

01:12

http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mircea_popescu&start=5000 << mthreat wouldja be so kind as to expand how far back the search goes?

01:12

Error - search.bicoin-assets.com

01:12

ben_vulpes i suppose "first otc rating" would be better way to go about it no ?

01:12

hm

01:13

well, first words in -assets as proxy for initial blockchain dl

01:13

eh, i suspect that many of us had one long before other

01:14

well, i'm gonna sleep on it

01:14

ben_vulpes anyway, i'll pass you a signed tarball tomorrow ?

01:14

nite

01:14

or what are your goals here.

01:15

*

ben_vulpes thinks

01:15

none that can't wait for the morrow

01:16

the ideal way would be for you to let the thing sync naturally

01:16

i agree, yeah.

01:16

it'll take a few weeks, but what's the rush, and this way you get an authenti ccopy.

01:16

mhm precisely.

01:16

i'm not concerned about the speed nearly as much as i am the thing working correctly with the network.

01:16

so then nm, let it buzz.

01:17

although if you'd be willing to share your tarball and a version number against which i could build that might show some interesting things on a block-by-block diffing

01:17

there is one caveat, specifically, that you must make a file named DB_CONFIG that contains a set_lg_dir database set_lk_max_locks 500000

01:17

or else it'll die once it reaches end of 2013

01:18

im not running stock, and what would it show ?

01:18

the client doesn't keep "blocks" exactly, it's messier

01:18

right.

01:18

so every blockchain could be a snowflake.

01:18

notrly, cause we know what's in the zero block

01:19

but every actual blockchain download is a snowflake

01:19

i'm thinking in terms of bits on disk

01:19

you can't mix and match blkxxxx from one install with another's.

01:19

but if you supply the entire datadir, you can boot one install with another's blockchain?

01:20

provided set_lk_max_locks type configs are in place?

01:20

yup.

01:20

hm.

01:21

the whole set of xxxx's and blkindex.dat

01:21

this has been educational indeed.

01:21

course, you would be relying on the verification done by the op

01:21

mhm.

01:21

but i have bootstrapped new nodes in this way

01:21

(it's actually the point of the torrent palliative back in the day)

01:22

should la serenissima publish a torrent?

01:22

anyway, to be perfectly fair : the bdb arrangement wasn't really tenable on the long haul. it had to be replaced with a better db.

01:23

the noobs aren't really capable of handling the sort of requirements to dld a full chain.

01:23

so that bitcoin split among a pro and a noob division is scarcely amazing.

01:23

AMAZING COMPANY!

01:27

https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/524784098510786560 << best twitter comment in response to "adding value to bitcoin" piece. i'm flattered!

01:27

So are you ready to add value to Bitcoin? http://t.co/QWwe4MG8Ar

01:28

(i sound like a gangster-rapper in writing, apparently)

01:28

how's the anon onslaught ? you been made to repent yet ?

01:30

mircea_popescu i'll repent by updating my "how to run a node" article with ben_vulpes' final work :)

01:30

gangster-rapper

01:31

and there hasn't been any anonslaught for the latest piece. but it's only been a few hours.

01:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5023 @ 0.00074072 = 3.7206 BTC [+] {2}

01:34

mircea_popescu: a quarter bn in 2014 ? seriously ? all into shit ? << lol. tip of the derpberg.

01:35

You didn't link the article on "the problem of too much money"

01:35

;;google site:trilema.com the problem of too much money

01:35

The problem of too much money pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation “problem” pe Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this-entire-deflation-problem>; Money, fucking and lying pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014 (1 more message)

01:35

mircea_popescu: this is also quite right. either russia or china can in fact raise interest rates causing a collapse. << their own rates? or just dump some us bonds and trigger us rate increase?

01:35

thestringpuller i'm well familiar with that one. i linked several other trilemas to make my case.

01:36

pete_dushenski: if we were still on gold standard, China could just dump gold and cause a collapse

01:36

seems pretty easy to do in the modern economy

01:36

but since we

01:36

're not...

01:36

well, "we"

01:37

bonds gold etc.

01:38

mircea_popescu: romania was for a while on par with somalia. << but romania got "aid"

01:39

I forgot jgarzik was an advocate of GPG in the web browser.

01:39

thestringpuller so ya, dump bonds = us raises rates to compete with market awash in dumped bonds.

01:39

Kinda...scary...

01:39

thestringpuller this is the value of having a blog ;)

01:39

"This engineer sees additional PGP problems: (1) ancient C codebase, and (2) lack of a usable lib."

01:40

Aren't those good things?

01:40

ancient C codebase == software that is more hardened over time

01:40

to quote mp: http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or-the-importance-of-blogging/

01:40

A conceit, or the importance of blogging pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:41

blogging is a muscle. probably why I write for qntra

01:41

thestringpuller good for la serenissima, bad for usderpcorps.

01:42

"He's Canadian" << lol, the canadians brought us Degrassi and indie rock!

01:42

news is a different muscle, though still a muscle.

01:42

yes, yw.

01:42

meh "canadian"

01:43

hmm. it's ashame all the power rangers are senile

01:44

mom was born in romania. dad's fam moved from ukraine barely a century ago. thus http://www.contravex.com/2014/08/17/who-are-we-not-nationals/

01:44

Who Are We? Not Nationals | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski

01:45

Ah. oh yea I remember.

01:45

Reminds me a lot of the theory of stateless armies.

01:45

(more metal gear talk)

01:45

of a theory*

01:46

mercs essentially.

01:46

yessir

01:46

so went to that kryptokit site

01:46

"will work for treasure"

01:46

vitalik buterin is on the team? kinda figures "javascript in da browser"

01:47

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2270223/Private-security-group-Typhon-assembles-private-navy-protect-Indian-Ocean-shipping-Somali-pirates.html

01:47

Private security group Typhon assembles private navy to protect Indian Ocean shipping from Somali pirates | This is Money

01:47

RagnarDanneskjol heh

01:48

I've recruited mercs for them - they're pretty badass

01:48

thestringpuller ya, everything vitalik and his co-derp anthony touch are utter nonsense.

01:49

On a side note, I've noticed Roger Ver's bitcoinstore is not...around anymore?

01:49

"Mission Accomplished! We failed but succeeded!"

01:50

anthony di iorio, very memorably (because i've never seen this before), replied to my gpg-gram... in plaintext. and it included my original email. in plaintext.

01:52

this was after anthony tried calling me several times, leaving voicemails about how he "didn't know i felt that way about ethereum" and shit.

01:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12471 @ 0.00074123 = 9.2439 BTC [+]

01:52

LOL

01:52

"I don't know how to use GPG, so I'm gonna make my own."

01:53

We saw how that worked out for usagi ~_~

01:53

(in reference to insurance)

01:53

and i said we're doing pgp or irc. but he'd "lost his key" so had to make another...with kryptokit!

01:54

interestingly, kryptokit keys are only 2,047 instead of 2,048 rsa keys. odd, no?

01:54

old pete_dushenski will one day think like Jeezy, "Seen't it all"

01:54

lol

01:55

it feels like bitcoin is accelerating that process!

01:55

or maybe it's just b-a.

01:55

it's a forging of some kind. trial by fire.

01:55

dude this is so bad

01:55

GPG in the browser?

01:55

*

pete_dushenski not complaining. doesn't mind a grey or two.

01:56

this is as bad as that keybase.io

01:56

not quite as bad as your private key isn't stored on some fuckers machine in his mom's basement

01:56

ben_vulpes ow! it's hot in here!

01:56

i use gpg in browser on airgapped device with wifi physically disabled.. b/c I actually understand java and can audit with my own eyes

01:56

pete_dushenski> it feels like bitcoin is accelerating that process!

01:56

^ MP must say at least once a day, "i'm too old for this shit"

01:57

RagnarDanneskjol heh neat.

01:57

bawww really RagnarDanneskjol ?

01:57

yup - i dum

01:57

you make the baby satoshi cry

01:57

that's a pretty funny self-indictment of javaland if you don't mind my saying so.

01:58

yes yes

01:58

"i can read java and stuff, but can't handle cli programs"

01:58

nothing personal

01:58

'cept for the rapier betwixt yer ribs

01:58

:P

01:58

none taken - I know my security leaves much to be desired.. why I hired a fulltime tutor

01:58

en garde!

01:59

fulltime! like 40h/wk??

01:59

full time you say

01:59

lol i wish i had that kind of budget

01:59

ben_vulpes patience.

01:59

well - he's not just a tutor - he's building stuff too - talkin bout Azlph

02:00

;;later tell mircea_popescu I'm glad you can still be young at heart re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2014#882514

02:00

The operation succeeded.

02:03

ben_vulpes: lol i wish i had that kind of budget << instead of paying for college pay for full time tutor for 4 years?

02:06

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/22/android_can_be_tricked_into_loading_malware_obfuscated_in_pngs/ << heh

02:06

NOT OK GOOGLE: Android images can conceal code The Register

02:06

"The researchers have found that it's possible to trick the Android app wrapping system so that an image can be wrapped up with malware, and delivered inside an innocuous wrapper app, which gets past both security apps and Google's Bouncer. The basis of the attack is a custom encryption package (which they dubbed AngeCrypt) that makes the malicious APK look like a valid PNG image file (other image formats work as

02:06

well)."

02:09

lol soon there will be botnets on the phone

02:09

hide yo data plan

02:09

hide yo wife.

02:09

http://www.zdnet.com/android-botnet-poses-as-google-app-pilfers-email-and-sms-7000024495/

02:09

Android botnet poses as Google app, pilfers email and SMS | ZDNet

02:10

ya wasn't there a dogecoin mining botnet on android fones too?

02:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00074128 = 8.0429 BTC [+]

02:10

yeppers

02:10

!s dogecoin botnet

02:10

0 results for 'dogecoin botnet' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=dogecoin+botnet

02:11

!dogecoin android

02:11

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2014#587788

02:11

Logged on 28-03-2014 00:41:08; ozbot: Researches find Android apps that covertly mine Dogecoin, one of them with more than a million downl

02:13

well

02:13

but of course smartphones are supersekure and everything and there's no way goog/aapl are letting those pesky feds get in the way.

02:13

"The FBI director James Comey's bid to have Congress kibosh default encryption appears to have publicly failed after senators said the proposal would be rejected." << uhuh

02:13

fluffypony hey man.

02:14

at least Reddit has its priorities straight

02:14

http://i.imgur.com/7t3Ow2A.png

02:14

Uncle Pete

02:14

pete_dushenski: I'm going to be in LA from next Tue till Nov 2nd, and then in Utah & Las Vegas from Nov 2nd to Nov 17th - any chance you're mosying on down in that vicinity?

02:14

http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitpay-to-assist-paydici-to-enable-bitcoin-based-recurring-billing/

02:14

BitPay To Assist Paydici To Enable Bitcoin Based Recurring Billing | Qntra.net

02:15

fluffypony hm did see that. afraid not. looks like i'll be in central canada around then...

02:15

o canada

02:16

famous around the world for its directional 2.4ghz FPV antennae

02:17

cazalla: it's obvious how they're going to do it...you just have to hand over your private keys and they'll totally handle the rest :-P

02:17

lol

02:17

like keybase for bitcoin!

02:17

exactly!

02:17

pete_dushenski: I kid you not about the antenna - this is pretty much the best FPV video receiver antenna on the market, and it's from True RC Canada: http://www.truerc.net/canada/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30_32_40&products_id=217

02:17

2.4GHz Gatling - $400.00 : Truerc Canada, Lipos, UHF and antennas for FPV!

02:18

it's also $400, so there's that

02:18

fluffypony, hopefully they get back to me but not likely

02:19

fluffypony so a btc

02:20

pete_dushenski: at present value, yes :-P

02:20

cheaper than a canada goose down jacket and a bathtub full of maple syrup, i suppose.

02:21

lol

02:22

though i did get a pretty sweet arcteryx winter jacket at the end of last season that i'm looking forward to sporting.

02:23

https://medium.com/@abrkn/obtaining-and-offline-securing-ether-for-the-upcoming-ethereum-launch-157963b6a456 << so one actually downloads wallets from the etherfolk?

02:23

Obtaining and offline securing ether for the upcoming Ethereum launch Medium

02:23

I love Arc'teryx

02:23

one of my favourite manufacturers

02:23

I have Khard 45s that we use for our go bags

02:23

but I keep taking the packs out and using it for hikes and general travel

02:23

I should get another one

02:23

when i first saw this jacket in banff, btc was $350 so it was 2 btc so i balked.

02:24

went back to the store 5 months later and btc and the jacket's price had converged so it was only 1 btc. i went for it then :D

02:24

lol nice

02:25

i haven't tried their other equipment but it's priced to a point where i certainly have high expectations

02:27

ben_vulpes as opposed to... lol crafting your own based on imaginary spec?

02:30

good evening xinxi

02:30

dude

02:30

i'm too tired and too deep in unix horseshit to know what to say about ether anymore

02:30

!up xinxi

02:30

xinxi

good evening cazalla

02:31

xinxi

oh, it should be afternoon.

02:31

ben_vulpes say "no thanks!"

02:33

it's completely wild to see how much the bitcoin network hashrate fluctuates.

02:34

in the last 2 week alone it's ranged from 160ph to 370ph as per http://bitcoin.sipa.be

02:34

Bitcoin network graphs

02:34

bananas, son.

02:37

this suggests a novel attack vector: depress price strategically to drive miners out, drop large amounts of hashpower to rewrite blockchain.

02:37

*

ben_vulpes thinks

02:37

not that novel.

02:38

mhm.

02:38

now i want to see the power draw of the btc network.

02:38

the question is how much rewriting is possible?

02:39

and who's going to be duped by any transaction large enough for this strategy to pay off?

02:39

"here's 50,000 btc"

02:39

(waits 1 conf)

02:40

"perfect, we have a deal, here's your aircraft carrier."

02:40

s/aircraft carrier/personal jet.

02:42

and my eyes are calling it quits for tonight. bon soir tout le monde!

02:42

my brain's calling it quit

02:46

this is actually kinda cool: http://smartdecisionsint.com/products/cryptex

02:46

Cryptex USB flash drive, 16 Gb Smart Decisions International (SDI)

02:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00074128 = 4.7071 BTC [+]

03:00

http://rajensanghvi.com/ << fuck yeah default wpengine template

03:00

rajensanghvi.com | startups, sales and inspiration.

03:01

fluffypony: now there's an interesting thing to put up someone's pooper

03:02

lol

03:02

looks like i could get it open in about a minute with a decent vise

03:02

plus a screwdriver. maybe.

03:03

but you know

03:03

neat keyfob i guess

03:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2095 @ 0.00074128 = 1.553 BTC [+]

03:12

using their considerable expertise in implementing a just-in-time (JIT) compiled version of the Ethereum virtual machine and making computationally-complex contracts a reasonably affordable possibility

03:12

A REASONABLY AFFORDABLE POSSIBLITY

03:12

WHY

03:12

okay who did this to me

03:13

who nerdsniped me with the etherscam again

03:13

fuck you medium

03:13

you're shitbanned

03:13

^

03:13

medium is a turdy pos on the level of coindesk.

03:14

i

03:14

but

03:14

ether

03:18

anyways, here, ether wallet lulz: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/22_technical-flaws-in-early-ether-wallet-implementations.html

03:18

Technical Flaws in Early Ether Wallet Implementations

03:18

ben_vulpes no dude, it's a pos libtard venue astroturfing the shit out of the internet.

03:18

its signal is exactly zero.

03:18

well it's cost the future one night of my time.

03:19

i *was* being productive and booting historical versions of bitcoin to run locally.

03:19

but noooo

03:19

i had to get scamsniped AGAIN.

03:19

taleb's really on to something with his noise suppression routine.

03:19

how though to reconcile noise suppression with -asset logreading...

03:19

thoughts for bed.

03:22

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46492 @ 0.0007384 = 34.3297 BTC [-] {2}

03:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19758 @ 0.00073703 = 14.5622 BTC [-] {3}

03:25

gabriel_laddel

;; later tell nubbins I'm not familiar with the btc codebase, but is there any reason not to include diffs from 5.3 to n.m in the appendix?

03:25

The operation succeeded.

03:28

;;seen pigeons

03:28

pigeons was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <pigeons> so far that seems accurate

03:28

<+othernubs`> let's get some big miners to give up their secret sauce /// yknow a survey of large miners' and pools' sentiment on state of bitcoin dev, what versions they use, etc would be a great qntra article

03:29

hard to verify miners, easy to get a bunch of derps that love to talk. but yes, it would be.

03:29

couldn't you just ask trustworthy miners like slush for the pool stats?

03:30

or do people have their computers lie about the version of stuff they are running?

03:31

being a miner is notoriously a "nobody's business" type of affair. there's nothing to be gained really.

03:31

plenty to be lost.

03:32

miners willing to talk about their mining are either lying or motivated by something larger than their mining. which could be their own honesty, of course, but could just as well invalidate the entire premise identifying them as miners.

03:32

cazalla http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/20/no_chokey_for_flannery/ mebbe

03:32

'LulzSec leader Aush0k' found to be naughty boy not worthy of jail The Register

03:32

help irritate asciilifeform's ideas about "can do anything"

03:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00073633 = 7.3265 BTC [-]

03:35

<+mircea_popescu> being a miner is notoriously a "nobody's business" type of affair. there's nothing to be gained really. /// well, what if we picture the future 10 years out? are representatives of large hash more communicative? or is there 'political' position on bitcoin technicals more known?

03:35

it's never going to be open.

03:35

there/their

03:35

why would people in power talk to the public ?

03:35

the public is welcome to either start mining or stfu.

03:36

so you think itll all just be a total mystery forever

03:36

only for the public.

03:37

yeah, investigation would be interesting

03:37

there will be the occasional reports from retired people, obviously. but otherwise, bitcoin mining ~==== fiat espionage.

03:38

or w/e, "secret services"

03:38

i remember bitfury was very defensive when i asked how much manufactured mining power they represented

03:39

i suppose the other similar thing is the networking cabal.

03:40

people may exchange info as to how much switching happens and where and how, on a "need to operate network" basis.

03:40

but you're not getting a report. nor is congress.

03:40

mircea_popescu, i remember hearing about this kid, nfi if he actually was part of lulzsec or not

03:41

tactical espionage action

03:41

cazalla seems not really. but the aussie "secret service" twerps are the better target there. i dun think anyone can point out to ANYTHING they ever achieved, since ww2 onward.

03:41

not ever. and yet...

03:41

nah, secret police here are ASIO not AFP

03:42

there's at least half a dozen of various derp groups, and they're all wasting oxygen & public moneyz.

03:44

given i live here, i have nothing but praise for all gov departments, advance australia fair

03:45

pete_dushenski: it's completely wild to see how much the bitcoin network hashrate fluctuates. << you understand those aren't directly measured, but more like calculated after the fact ? it's normal variance, you're trying to guess how many times a coin is tossed by how many heads you see. well...

03:45

cazalla haha that's a point.

03:46

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/10/21/sweden_s_military_calls_sub_breach_of_waters_fucked_up

03:46

Sweden's Military Calls Sub's Breach of Waters 'Fucked Up'

03:47

ben_vulpes: this suggests a novel attack vector: depress price strategically to drive miners out, <<< except miners don't go in and out with the price. the market is amortisation driven, they have the gear and have to use it, so they'll use it.

03:47

fx risk is handled like any fx risk (hedge and insure).

03:50

On Sunday, the Swedish media wound itself into a tizzy over a photograph of a man dressed in black wading into the water somewhere in the archipelago. The security services were dispatched to find the man, who turned out to be a pensioner named Ove, out doing some fishing. "I'm no spy, I'm a pensioner," he told Expressen. "You can tell that it's me [in the photo] by my straight jeans, and I usually have a backpack on."

03:50

how did that theory go... the ideal spy is an old guy with no social contacts ?

03:50

the sweedish sold off their sub hunting helos in 2008. bwahahahaha.

03:51

bounce sweden is kinda poor these days.

03:52

am I supposed to pity the fools now?

03:52

they let norway split...

03:53

birts have more sense with scotland

03:53

norway is doing pretty well, last I heard

03:54

while reserves last.

04:00

AIUI they potted up their north sea gas proceeds, instead of giving it all away to the unwashed masses. gives them a bit of playroom.

04:02

thestringpuller: "He's Canadian" << lol, the canadians brought us Degrassi and indie rock! <<< fkn degrassi, to this day i remember claude offing himself in the toilets, i think i was like 10 or 12 and what is this

04:04

punkman

re: Norway http://qz.com/252753/norways-gargantuan-sovereign-wealth-fund-by-the-numbers/

~ 20 minutes ~

04:24

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3805 @ 0.00073927 = 2.8129 BTC [+]

04:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17558 @ 0.00074135 = 13.0166 BTC [+] {2}

04:37

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00074149 = 16.9801 BTC [+] {3}

04:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00074005 = 8.8066 BTC [-]

05:04

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23800 @ 0.0007416 = 17.6501 BTC [+]

05:15

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25850 @ 0.00073987 = 19.1256 BTC [-] {2}

~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~

06:35

;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com

06:35

log.bitcoin-assets.com is down

06:35

bollocks

06:41

ohai

06:44

hiya dav

~ 16 minutes ~

07:00

hi davout

07:01

hello !

~ 20 minutes ~

07:21

davout any news? you said there's some stupid french law pending

07:28

did i?

07:28

heh all is ok then

07:35

not like laws are going to make it not ok anyway

~ 55 minutes ~

08:31

logs down, ddos up, mirror later

08:33

both logs and freenode are dos'd?

08:40

freenode i dunno

08:41

usually when freenode has problems, it dumps me whole banlist for all channels, that happened 20 mins ago.

08:43

*

chetty wishes all these ddosers would find something productive to do with their time

08:44

you know, it is so much fun, feeling of power and whatnot

08:45

i don't know why i did not do more of it myself. only once tried SMB packed of death against neighbor's win machine flooding the ether with all kinds of windoze packets

08:46

got some qualms of remorse, did not continue down that path

08:49

at least assbot is with us.

08:49

chetty

well even if ddos is your thing, power trip and all I can think of more interesting things to ddos

08:49

i go for some hours. later

08:53

chetty go on. they're listening

08:57

jurov: like this? http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2014/10/17/france_anti_terror_law_war_vs_internet/

08:57

French 'terror law' declares WAR on the INTERNET itself, say digi-rights folks The Register

08:57

!s davout law

08:57

28 results for 'davout law' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=davout+law

08:59

dunno what was then. maybe cia/kgb planted me false memories and whatnot

09:01

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00073695 = 4.1269 BTC [-] {2}

09:02

wtf is "individual terrorist undertaking"?

09:02

thoughtcrime?

09:09

ah this

09:09

it's because the news is full of teens leaving france to go to syria for djihad and whatnot

09:10

*

bounce wishes the politicians would show some spine here. take their local passport, wave goodbye, declare them europe-wide persona non grata for all eternity. problem solved.

09:11

announce that loud and clear and everybody knows what the score is. "if you want to go there, you're dead to us."

09:12

bounce why not simply not care about it? wanna go some ideological war somewhere else, well, have fun seeya later

09:12

*wage

09:12

because the fucks come back all shell shocked and violent

09:13

meh, let them

09:13

I don't care if maladjusted angry youths want to run away and make trouble in a war zone. I do care if they come back, recruit some more kids (to do the same), cause trouble, shoot some jews, what have you.

09:14

i'd reckon most would get natural selection'd anyway

09:14

at the very least it ties up secret service manpower to keep an eye on them

09:14

what are you gonna do? cage them?

09:14

no, they're spying on the returnees. already.

09:15

no, i mean the would-be goers

09:16

I'd do exactly what I said I wanted the politicians to do: let the would-be goers go, at the price of persona non grata status.

~ 23 minutes ~

09:39

!mpif

09:39

BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021818 B (Total: 477.11 B). Delta: -0.38 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]

09:45

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/denver-girls-skipped-school-alleged-attempt-join-isis-article-1.1982931

09:45

Three Denver girls who skipped school in alleged attempt to join ISIS under investigation - NY Daily News

~ 24 minutes ~

10:09

anyone have logs

10:13

n/m back up

10:27

you guise and your arc'teryx

10:33

cazalla:thestringpuller: "He's Canadian" << lol, the canadians brought us Degrassi and indie rock! <<< fkn degrassi, to this day i remember claude offing himself in the toilets, i think i was like 10 or 12 and what is this <<< my sides / my youth

~ 23 minutes ~

10:57

https://medium.com/the-os-fund/rewrite-the-os-68fb43ddc95f dem movers and shakers and twerkers

10:57

Rewrite the OS, Change the World The OS Fund Medium

10:57

i tweeted them stan's 7 laws but i doubt they'll catch on

11:00

medium.com is such a craphole. like wired, but pessimised for the tablet.

11:01

though that osfund.co website manages to fuck up harder. doesn't even render any content here, just the menu bar.

11:02

wants to change the world. picks sucky venue to promote broken website. makes a splash, it does.

11:03

if you want to get amused, actually read it

11:03

"Autonomous networks of drones are delivering critical supplies to rural African villages."

11:04

can't stop chuckling

11:04

i thought medium was the sort of site where literally anyone can publish?

11:04

started to scan it but it looked to be entirely fluff

11:08

jurov: lol!

11:09

y'know, aside from the inevitble

11:09

...keyboard issues, this xo-1 is actually a quite capable irc machine

11:10

jurov: i almost think that scamatron was built as a deliberate attempt at personal insult for me

11:10

websites are a dice-roll but xchat and a couple terminal windows = no sweat

11:10

that, or terry davis

11:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0007365 = 2.2832 BTC [-]

11:11

*

asciilifeform reads the actual ad and notices it's simply generic derp, nothing to do with operating systems in the conventional sense of the word

11:13

*

othernubs` notices that page 1 of the bookof bitcoin will be the entire contents of a file named COPYING

11:13

i think i'll gussy it up

11:14

*

jurov sues nubs for GPL violation

11:14

or you can print legalese in tiny font, as supposed to

11:14

with images! not chancing text!

11:14

it was bsd afaik

11:14

*changing

11:15

jurov, i'm going the other way. make it a glorious proclamation

11:15

1 page doesn't sound like a big deal

11:15

trumpets, cherubim, banners, etc

11:16

isStandard() should feature properly terrifying gargoyles

11:16

actually on the fence about illustrating the entire thing, with a slight lean towards 'yes'

11:16

e.g., http://mith.ru/treasury/natio/ireland/kells071.htm

11:17

illustrate in the margins.

11:17

the best kind.

11:17

YEAH

11:17

book of kells

11:18

i don't even need to click that link

11:20

http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html#fnr.20 << thanks for this write up, this would def. need to be patched in.

11:20

A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21

11:21

at least, i'd like to have it. heh.

11:28

so yeah, maybe .5.3 is enough with a few patches added in like your notes say. good work!

11:28

didja get it running eventually?

11:29

ben_vulpes, that's a helpful commit summary, well done

11:29

so.. where is the evil in 0.9?

11:30

Apocalyptic: i have to clear up that it's not a *commit* summary but a changelog summary.

11:30

indeed, semantics

11:30

ben_vulpes: naw, gave up after the last paste I posted. i'd like to go further here, but need more time, and to somehow find the right source to add to sources.list so I can pull in the requirements correctly.

11:31

when testing this, i don't wanna to "hack" a bunch of stuff together. i'd like to do it in a linear manner so seeing what was required is simple. because I'm sure that I can just start pulling down packages on my own and get it to work. just was trying to keep it simple.

11:32

ben_vulpes, I guess the next would be to see if actually all the code changes reflect precisely what's been announced in the changelog, to ensure there is no stuff left out, intentionally or not

11:32

not sure if im making any sense.

11:32

*the next step

11:33

I might not be the right person to test this after all. *shrug*

11:33

which is a considerable amount of work

11:33

i'm able to do it..if anyone pays

11:34

mod6: plenty of sense. i was a little startled to see that your debian dist didn't come with sudo.

11:35

me too, that threw me off. but maybe i did something silly with the install by creating a root account? i'm not super clued on deb... but it asked me to make a root account first, then a user account. so that was kinda bizzare to me.

11:35

Apocalyptic: semantics indeed, but not the reddit-style attempted-argument-ender kind. rather the important kind that conveys significance.

11:35

so thought maybe it left off sudo because I created a root account. not sure.

11:35

*

ben_vulpes has no idea

11:35

ben_vulpes, absolutely, see my next line :)

11:35

still caffinating can't keep up already

11:37

Apocalyptic: indeed. piles of work.

11:37

mod6: what're you doing?

11:37

at this point i'm running the node stock to see what happens

11:37

bounce: just testing ben's script

11:38

created a vm of deb 6.0.10 or w/e and then just tried to run it directly without doing anything else.

11:39

and the apt-get lines in the start of the script failed because the sources.list didn't have the things it's looking for. so I manually added some more that I got from the deb source list thingy, but that didn't seem to help much. it's in the pastes, check the log.

11:40

http://www.etftrends.com/2014/10/europe-listed-bitcoin-etf-in-the-works/

11:40

Europe-Listed Bitcoin ETF in the Works | ETF Trends

11:43

ben_vulpes: anyway, I'll play with it some more later today.

11:45

http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html#fnr.20 << thanks for this write up, this would def. need to be patched in. <<< agreed, great writeup, altho evidence seems to point to 0.6.3 being the right choice

11:45

A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21

11:45

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11984 @ 0.0007365 = 8.8262 BTC [-]

11:46

you suggest importing most of the additions in 0.6.0, but 0.6.1-0.6.3 are all just bugfixes

11:46

including several osx-specific ones

11:54

parliament hill attack: 1 gunman dead after soldier shot at national war memorial

11:55

othernubs`: i'm not even sold on importprivkey

11:55

what's the use case there?

11:56

several shots fired inside parliament

11:56

holy shit brb

11:58

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29724907

11:58

BBC News - Shots fired inside Canada parliament

12:00

this is very bad

12:05

3 different locations

12:06

<+ben_vulpes> othernubs`: i'm not even sold on importprivkey << how would you do this otherwise?

12:10

mod6: create an address and send coins to it?

12:11

it may be handy to generate a private key outside of the bitcoind mecanism

12:11

it you want to use it, gotta import it

12:11

mm.

12:12

all canadian forces bases closed to public access nationwide

12:12

and what if you already have a private key that you'd like to import from cold storage? how would you send coins to new said address?

12:12

bridges between ottawa and gatineau all shut down

12:12

wait they close bridges because of that ?

12:12

in other news... i think i fixed my deps problem.

12:12

:)

12:13

nice! care to share?

12:13

so the debian source list generator thingy didn't put it in there that i need lines that tell me to go to just "squeeze" itself, not just "squeeze-updates" or w/e. will paste.

12:14

othernubs`: did you close the US border, to stop the terrorists?

12:14

"Cloning into bitcoin ..."

12:14

it's the most open border in the world :/

12:15

"Checking out v0.5.3"

12:15

looks like there might be an issue with that sed command tho

12:15

PinkPosixPXE

if you dpaste/pastebin it, I can assist.

12:16

PinkPosixPXE

^with sed

12:16

so how long are we gonna diddle around here before one of us forks 0.5.3 and starts selectively patching?

12:16

;D

12:16

you made isis mad othernubs`

12:16

awe shit. fuckin scrollback only set to 512 by default. gotta run this stuff again. one sec... working on it

12:17

it initially ended with :=0/d so as to rip the relevant line out. that'll still work.

12:17

time for canada to become part of the caliphate

12:19

wasn't forking the point of the whole thing?

12:19

a list of CVEs and other security problems in bitcoin would be useful

12:20

probably would need to take the full tree and look at the diffs, backport the useful stuff and leave the cruft

12:20

polish the turd?

12:20

no, not quite

12:22

the usg unfunded liabilities problem is mainly pensions, no?

12:23

so keep in mind that a lot of these packages got pulled successfully the first time. this is the second running after i bumped up the scrollback limit on the term:

12:23

http://dpaste.com/1EHBRNF

12:23

dpaste: 1EHBRNF

12:23

ben_vulpes btw, if oyu're going to maintain this, change satoshi's warn key.

12:23

Thanks PinkPosixPXE

12:24

<othernubs`> so how long are we gonna diddle around here before one of us forks 0.5.3 and starts selectively patching? << not long.

12:24

<othernubs`> all canadian forces bases closed to public access nationwide << russians finally invading ?

12:25

isn't somebody making a good alternative implementation? why take 0.5.3 as the b-a client.

12:25

mircea_popescu: ISIS invading, hell of a thing to wake up to.

12:25

mike_c because gavin wants a fork

12:25

nice knowing you, canada

12:25

and in general, when little bitches are asking for a thrashing, it's a good idea to give them a thrasing.

12:25

;;google globe footage captures shoot out in parliament building site:youtube.com

12:25

euronews (in English) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/user/Euronews>; All comments on A Fresh Perspective On "Islamophobia" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=9-4AAc5y86s&page=2>; Toronto by Newsreel | culture | Torontoist: <http://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Ftorontoist.com%2F2014%2F04%2Ftoronto-by- (1 more message)

12:26

too recent i guess,

12:26

othernubs` https://www.google.com/search?q=bridges+between+ottawa+and+gatineau+all+shut+down&complete=0&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=nws << totally.

12:26

bridges between ottawa and gatineau all shut down - Google Search

12:26

all they got is "How to Be a Devils Fan In Ottawa -- 2014-15 Edition" and "Tune in TONIGHT for "MAKERS: Women in War""

12:26

as if.

12:27

http://youtu.be/XrGqoISd-do

12:27

Globe footage captures shooting in Parliament building - YouTube

12:27

o hey.

12:28

sooo.... why military bases then ?

12:28

first shot took down a canadian soldier at the nat'l war memorial

12:28

what's a "police sweep"

12:28

<mircea_popescu> sooo.... why military bases then ? // didn't get that either

12:29

dude these schmucks are not trained or something ?

12:29

is THAT what you do when shots fired ?

12:29

mthreat

mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/a/QdiNV

12:29

Hack - Imgur

12:29

dunno. police pretending to be militaree is all the rage now. has been for a while.

12:29

mthreat ahahah win.

12:30

bounce even police tho. it's a basic fucking thing, what is this bullshit "i'ma lower my back in a crouch so as to reduce mobility and improve exposure"

12:30

for crying out loud. throwing like a girl, but for guns.

12:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrGqoISd-do&list=UUsZYUb8C_19bWOCKF9jRwSg

12:31

Globe footage captures shooting in Parliament building - YouTube

12:31

i suppose asking the brave&bold to crawl for two hundred yards is way too much huh.

12:31

not everybody has the guts to walk in rod straight with a campaign hat instead of a helmet and going "I love the smell of napalm in the morning", you know.

12:32

maybe i should submit a bitbet about the war measures act being enabled again

12:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20406 @ 0.00073761 = 15.0517 BTC [+] {2}

12:35

bounce and whoever does won't have em for long, you know ?

12:35

othernubs` sounds legit.

12:42

http://i.imgur.com/gF4DefU.jpg << the best part is where it says "pantalla tactil" and "together we work for you"

12:42

which is why they like their guns at the ready and their own profile minimised

12:43

seriously, that's not how it's done. these little bitches would get massacred if anyone seriously went at them.

12:44

Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2XFHE5K.txt )

12:44

!b 3

12:44

they're police wannabe soldiers, not actual combat vets

12:44

shocking video, anyway.

12:45

so why is this assad character so completely reviled, beyond resisting the arab spring thing?

12:45

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/archive/story/134690/it-was-three-stannard-stations-hit-by-apparent-cry

12:45

Latest Radio News, Talk Shows, Sports, Hosts, Personalities | AllAccess.com

12:45

bounce he broke the us' back in the middle east.

12:45

remember that humiliating "chemical weapons" thing ?

12:45

not that that wouldn't have happened a bit later anyway, with the sharia-huggers

12:45

that was the first of since then numerous times putin shoved his cock in obama's butt.

12:45

bounce: He married a white girl is as far as I can tell.

12:46

he's not much more middleeastern-y-er than obam.

12:48

thestringpuller: On a side note, I've noticed Roger Ver's bitcoinstore is not...around anymore? << well it wasn't really making all that much.

12:49

pete_dushenski: anthony di iorio, very memorably (because i've never seen this before), replied to my gpg-gram... in plaintext. and it included my original email. in plaintext. <<< ahahahh.this is like, what, built from the ground up with derpidity in mind ?

12:49

lmao.

12:53

stupid s/w and clueless user. it's what you get when most of the userbase is clueless: the writers of mailclients will also be clueless.

12:55

o so basically the idea is, client autodecrypted and then appended it to email history as per usual ?

12:55

http://www.blockstream.com/sidechains.pdf

12:55

i suppose it's a good filter for the killfile.

12:56

dunno what happened. any user-agent headers in the original?

12:56

good q.

12:57

*

bounce has way too much to read. *sigh*

12:58

"339,192 US rank. This site reaches over 858 monthly people" << holy shit, it's not fucking possible that 1k people reading you on a monthly basis puts you in the top 300k sites on the internets.

12:58

them 'merkins really can't keep their fingers out of anything and they manage to fsck up everywhere. not a new observation, but it hasn't ceased to be painfully true either.

12:59

cazalla BingoBoingo : didja see quantcast's "affinity index" ? wired.com 32.7x reddit.com 26.2x zerohedge.com 26.1x theverge.com 20.8x wsj.com 19.3x. made to own, that thing.

13:00

Yeah

13:00

$depth S.QNTR

13:00

mircea_popescu: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=38 Or use a valid MPSIC!

13:01

mind the "us" part. that's only some large fraction of 310M people. there's at least as many people online in china, and europe again, and so on.

13:01

bounce but 1k ? it's like... anything is seen by a thousand people in a month.

13:01

it's thirty a day for crissakes

13:02

you got the same numbers but for log.bitcoin-assets.com, just for comparison?

13:02

though that'd be the wrong thing to compare with. the other 'bitcoin'-news services would be better to compare with

13:03

ok ben_vulpes: works! http://dpaste.com/3RHJW3S

13:03

dpaste: 3RHJW3S

13:04

anyway, i was saying earlier i love varnish ? pre varnish, 89,441 pages, 207,229 hits. post varnish ? 58,692pages 58,707 hits. saved 100k hits or so.

13:04

bounce nah, qntra is the only thing on quantcast.

13:04

i am serious, there's just no way to run a web server w/o it.

13:05

there was 2 very minor changes to your sed command in there that PinkPosixPXE helped me with. needs to be: sed -i 's/USE_UPNP:=0/USE_UPNP=/1'

13:05

I'll paste the entire thing, just a sec.

13:06

http://www.computerhistory.org/_static/atchm/xerox-alto-source-code/ << Looky

13:06

Xerox Alto Source Code | Computer History Museum

13:06

;;rate PinkPosixPXE 1 Helped me out testing ben_vulpes install script.

13:06

Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user PinkPosixPXE has been recorded.

13:07

Bet created: "Bitcoin difficulty to fall before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1058/

13:07

PinkPosixPXE

Thanks! :)

13:08

;;rate PinkPosixPXE Contributed text to qntra

13:08

Error: 'Contributed' is not a valid integer.

13:09

;;rate PinkPosixPXE 1 contributed text to qntra

13:09

Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

13:09

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2595277 << putin already saving oil companies from pension funds? happens rather quickly

13:09

-

13:09

ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/0BX9YV5

13:09

dpaste: 0BX9YV5

13:10

mod6 ben_vulpes would you two be interested in cochairing an ACTUAL bitcoin foundation ? dedicated to ~actually~ maintaining the bitcoin core etc ?

13:12

it'd be an honor, Sir.

13:12

draft a charter, then it gets gpg signed and that's it ? i'd donate

13:13

prolly not teh only one.

13:13

what about Chief Scientist and 5 econ muppets positions?

13:13

jurov none of that, i'm thinking more of, have two co-chairs, then when one wants to go out they vote unanimously to add a third, and after 6 months the retiring one can leave.

13:13

stable indefinitely like that.

13:14

i see. deaths are to be announced 6 moths prior, too.

13:14

i had same idea this morning actually

13:14

thickasthieves good for you :)

13:14

Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin difficulty to fall before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1058/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,996.

13:14

Ooo can I be fundraising chair?

13:14

I'll pledge a donation :D

13:14

jurov well, ideally people on death's door aren't in the chair position.

13:14

TheNewDeal i dun thyink so. you see, it's by doing shit.

13:15

securing finances is just part of the mo?

13:15

*

xanthyos

13:15

notrly.

13:15

i think that'd be the other one.

13:15

ok srs. mod6 is a C++ programmer? or do you have any?

13:15

ooo the scamcoin foundation?

13:16

should also require signed, narrated gpg for all distributions of funds

13:16

they can hire/work with whoever the fuck they want.

13:16

run it totally transparently

13:16

thickasthieves absolutely.

13:16

i've done a fair amount of C++ in the past. a lot more C though, I must admit.

13:16

hire people like eulora hires people, on gpg contract.

13:16

this sounds like something i want to be involved in

13:16

cool!

13:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17388 @ 0.00073629 = 12.8026 BTC [-]

13:17

mod6: what'd you work on?

13:18

where do you accept patches? i have one pending (for multiple walletsw)

13:18

it's against 0.8, tho

13:18

well once they actually get the charter signerd i suppose there's going to be a geethoob

13:18

and i was told the code was refactored quite

13:18

they're starting to bitch about browser versions

13:18

jurov not unfixable, that.

13:19

how, they ?

13:19

who*

13:19

perhaps not a good idea to rely on them. then again, hosting a git repo isn't exactly difficult.

13:19

bluematt iirc

13:19

bounce: noting in C++ that i can point to right this minute in OS space. Mostly C stuff is out there... my freebsd port I created is in C.

13:20

what about boost?

13:20

ah git. well u dunno man, that's why there's foundation chairs. sort this shit out.

13:20

what'd you port then?

13:21

oh a million years ago i created a port called 'destroy'

13:22

but been a freebsd guy for a long time, helped out on a lot of various things.

13:22

in user & kern

13:22

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5254 @ 0.00073885 = 3.8819 BTC [+]

13:24

*

mod6 fbsd since 4.2, obsd since 2.6

13:25

freebsd 4 best freebsd

13:25

^

13:26

you don't know if you're on death's door if you get assinated

13:26

assassinated*

13:26

wow

13:26

twice the ass

13:28

thestringpuller yeah, okay, if anyone gets ass-assinated we'll ad-hoc it k ?

13:29

no point in having pre-compiled code in case of exceptions. pre-compiled is for non exceptional stuff.

13:30

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00074037 = 10.1801 BTC [+] {2}

13:36

do we have sources on us vs ru jet fighter quality other than herr orlov?

13:36

me ?

13:37

how'd that go? o_O

13:37

tis in the logs, i wonder how it's keyed

13:38

!s sukhoi

13:38

1 results for 'sukhoi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sukhoi

13:38

a there we go. cool!

13:40

mircea_popescu> draft a charter, then it gets gpg signed and that's it ? i'd donate <<< me too

13:40

a single distro shames us all

13:40

especially a shitty one run in circles through featuritis swamp by idiots

13:41

SatoshiCore: don't run with the chumps

13:42

cazalla by the way, intel sez that the reason you've not heard from sgornick nor will you is that the guy meanwhile figured out i'm involved, and doesn't like me either because i said nigger or cunt at some point in the past.

13:42

othernubs` there's really no cause to fork the name too. let the gavin-mike-dorkteam run into obscurity and that's that.

13:42

;;seen mistere

13:42

mistere was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 27 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <MisterE> Deer Hunter was masterpiece

13:43

yeah fair enough

13:43

this is bitcoin. that some other derps are calling their derpage bitcoin too... well who cares.

13:43

shit, drop the core and just call it Bitcoin.

13:43

the us congress calls itself sovereign. anyone can call anything

13:43

spkg of name *motion to rename 'ACTUAL bitcoin foundation' to homebrew bitcoin club

13:43

aye

13:44

;;ud spkg

13:44

Google found nothing.

13:44

speaking

13:44

hardly. it'd be the bitcoin foundation. because it's what it is.

13:44

some other scamthing notwithstanding.

13:47

*

jurov regs therealbitcoinfoundation.org

13:47

bitcoin.foundation too ?

13:48

ugh

13:48

taken

13:48

heh

13:48

which is my fucking point. this "name and logo" approach to "ideas" is for the birds.

13:48

what the fuck does it need a website for even.

13:49

it'll just be project on github?

13:49

http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitfury-capital-announces-investment-in-gocoin/

13:49

BitFury Capital Announces Investment in GoCoin | Qntra.net

13:49

if they even decide to use github

13:49

mod6 ben_vulpes put this book thing to rest once and for all; merge useful changes from 0.6.3 into 0.5.3 and call that your baseline

13:49

we'll publish the goddamn thing

13:50

sanity prevails

13:50

will be hosted on an obscure ipv6 addy :DDD

13:50

othernubs` "Bitcoin, the definitive edition" ?

13:50

jurov can be foundation.bitcoin-assets.com

13:50

or whatevs.

13:50

Bitcoin v6

13:51

canadian forces warning personnel not to wear their uniforms off-base?!

13:51

what madness is this

13:52

btcfoundation.org is regged to some "Matthew Campbell","Bryan Thomas Campbell Foundation", Scottsdale, US

13:52

soldier gets shot, solution is for all other soldiers to get naked

13:52

jurov, the basdard

13:52

that's a weird announcement to make...

13:53

truly bizarre

13:53

<+othernubs`> mod6 ben_vulpes put this book thing to rest once and for all; merge useful changes from 0.6.3 into 0.5.3 and call that your baseline << agreed.

13:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00073584 = 14.6064 BTC [-] {2}

13:56

i'd recommend the next few minor releases merge as many non-crufty fixes from core as possible, but that's just one man's opinion

13:56

copy the cream, chuck the crap

14:00

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00073506 = 6.4685 BTC [-]

14:01

;;ticker

14:01

Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 385.41, Best ask: 386.4, Bid-ask spread: 0.99000, Last trade: 385.26, 24 hour volume: 8718.21347780, 24 hour low: 380.0, 24 hour high: 389.39, 24 hour vwap: 384.929848633

14:02

maintain << i will, sure. if someone actually wants this.

14:03

mainly because this involves virtually no work.

14:03

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1M6XPHG.txt )

14:03

!b 2

14:03

heh

14:03

asciilifeform, you okay with yr manuscript elucidating the forthcoming Real Bitcoin 0.6?

14:04

heh..wait till they break boost compat

14:04

my manuscript, lol!?

14:04

how much boost is in there anyway?

14:04

;D

14:04

i'll breathe on it and bless it, promise.

14:04

calling it a book seems to boorish at this point

14:04

*too

14:05

these rubber keys..

14:05

can't wait to see the charter

14:08

i refuse to build the winblows gui ver., though.

14:08

(all others - sure, fuk, why not)

14:10

charter ideas: 1) maintain a workable core with no shit in it. 2) specify bitcoin 3) write a new implementation because you can't polish a turd.

14:11

i don't think gui should be a priority, at all.

14:11

these are good ideas mike_c.

14:11

othernubs`: *nod*

14:11

i'll donate 1btc specifically to guarantee no gui for 0.6-0.7

14:11

gotta make it work, before we make it pretty right

14:12

^

14:12

a workable api would be nice. the current js stuff is... er, open for improvement.

14:12

heh

14:12

bitcoinjs is actually not bad

14:13

but you're right

14:13

donate... to guarantee no gui << Deal!! pay to xxxxx....

14:14

let others extend. i don't want gpg to incorporate curl libs so it can automatically grab otps from gribs

14:14

it's quite a lot useless if you're trying to build scripts with it, unless they're browser-based in some way

14:14

i don't want real bitcoin to come default w/ candy

14:15

bounce, node.js runtime

14:15

and, naturally, replicable build setup (i'd suggest 'qemu' image. easy.)

14:15

open a bash prompt and type node wallet.js or w/e

14:15

yeah, that's the point. useless on the cli, where you'd throw awk at it instead.

14:16

!up omg_hax

14:16

no, that's braindamaged. qemu image - complete minimal bsd with all components, boots up (emulated) on any arch from any culture.

14:17

well.. seems like we need to draft a roadmap

14:17

and if without gui, then it should work fine on cygwin, no?

14:17

qemu has poor i/o perf

14:17

forget maps - if someone actually wants this, no joke, i'll simply crap it out. just say where we'll keep it.

14:17

no usage, no manpage, unobvious naming.

14:18

poor i/o performance << not for using!! for building.

14:18

oh, and deceptive. recall that shop that relied on its "accounting" features, then found out the hard way they're useless for keeping track of accounts?

14:19

they got derided for that, but really, the feature shouldn't have been in there in the first place. that, or something that actually did what it said it'd do.

14:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00074076 = 15.4819 BTC [+] {3}

14:19

'qemu' is simply a machine emulator (x86, mips, sparc, a few others) - we can use another if someone has a good reason to dislike qemu

14:20

how available is it?

14:20

eveveryone please try to grasp why i suggest emulator. this gives a complete self-contained block of bits which reliably builds the apparatus. no external anything, ever.

14:21

The20YearIRCloud

mircea_popescu: - I've passed out a few, not to all tenants though due to the baby being born on last rent cycle

14:21

available << gpl2

14:21

the problem with that is that the emulator itself should be widely available too.

14:21

qemu is available just about anywhere

14:22

<othernubs`> can't wait to see the charter << me2

14:22

i am fine with qemu... but... it builds and then what?

14:22

you have to feed it a blockchain to avoid endless waiting?

14:22

othernubs`> i don't think gui should be a priority, at all. << prolly not. if they kill the qt branch it would be no loss anyway

14:22

plus, a snapshot of ordinary x86 bsd install 'for qemu' could be booted on a physical machine. the suggested distribution mechanism is just a way to keep the thing reliably portable without having folks dependency-hunt.

14:22

the bitcoin source is actually reasonably portable and doesn't depend on "helpful" stuff like cmake

14:23

othernubs`> let others extend. i don't want gpg to incorporate curl libs so it can automatically grab otps from gribs << EXACTLY. do one thing, do it well.

14:23

probably should do multiple image formats for the time being though

14:23

it builds and then what << damned if i know. then, folks who actually use bitcoin for something, can, presumably, use this one if they so wish

14:23

all this non-unix bs, "gotta make an application to join curl and awk EACH WAY THEY COULD BE JOINED". for fiddy billion "different" aps.

14:24

mircea_popescu: the term you're looking for is 'non-orthogonality' - ancient lament on my site

14:24

one thing that would be useful but is probably not that trivial to implement is a way to split keeping the chain and keeping the keys

14:27

The20YearIRCloud o happy bday.

14:27

mod6, othernubs`: i'm behind on logs, but this is amenable.

14:27

ugh amenable

14:27

it's fine and great i mean to say

14:27

The20YearIRCloud

mircea_popescu: thanks, although you're a few weeks late :D

14:27

copacetic

14:27

bounce this is nowallet=1 parameter since 0.9

14:27

<jurov> and if without gui, then it should work fine on cygwin, no? << probably.

14:28

so does someone actually want this for anything? and othernubs has a tree up for comment?

14:28

<bounce> oh, and deceptive. recall that shop that relied on its "accounting" features, then found out the hard way they're useless for keeping track of accounts? << yeah and definitely must fix, but that'll be hard to do on the first pass. an excellent thing to do for first revision tho, take out "labels" implement accounts correctly (or merge coin control in, either way)

14:28

so how do the wallets relying on it then ascertain the validity of the chain that instance serves?

14:29

<BingoBoingo> qemu is available just about anywhere << this is true.

14:29

<jurov> you have to feed it a blockchain to avoid endless waiting? << not like we can't keep an official copy for bootstrapping, or else people who have the patience can just make their own

14:29

it's still going to be a bitch for shops that're running, say, xen or vmware or whatnot.

14:29

<bounce> the bitcoin source is actually reasonably portable and doesn't depend on "helpful" stuff like cmake << also true.

14:30

you can run qemu under xen and whatnot fine

14:30

^

14:30

though boost is a right pain and bloody big.

14:30

even contemplating basic auditability requires a 'capsule' that does not need to milk anything (save mains current) from the outside world, during build setup

14:30

which is another very valid 2nd step, audit the motherucker.

14:30

hence emulator with expected 'gcc', known libs, etc

14:31

ben_vulpes mod6 so draft a charter, then we can bitch at it.

14:31

yeah, that's valid

14:31

how it is better as distributing signed binaries?

14:31

^ also valid

14:31

true.

14:32

how it is better as distributing signed binaries? << iron correspondence btween claimed source and claimed binaries. only one way to achieve this reliably - the one suggested above.

14:32

maybe it's fair to put the burden of the system's basic integrity on the user

14:32

i've never written a charter, are there good examples out there?

14:32

and since we're doing this : asciilifeform the one thing you'd be most halpful with would be, look into the god damned rand code/crypto uses thereof.

14:32

boot up a vm!

14:33

there HAVE been cases where bitcoin used shitty entropy.

14:33

vm << no vm. known emulated cpu for known state, always.

14:33

yes, you can make the qemu image available for reproducible builds, but dunno if to advertise as sop for everyone

14:33

<+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes mod6 so draft a charter, then we can bitch at it. << okay :)

14:33

jurov b-a is not for everyone.

14:33

http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/x3j13-sd-05.html

14:33

X3J13 Charter

14:34

qemu only for builders / paranoiacs. ordinary mortals can use the resulting binaries.

14:34

<+ben_vulpes> i've never written a charter, are there good examples out there? << me either, but we can work on it. no sweat.

14:35

i'll happily take a weekend off to read the rng gibblets, once you lot draft a proclamation of Giving A Fuck

14:35

if you guys need assistance editing it, i may be of some help

14:36

I have a feeling the great use of Deedbot will be proclamations of giving a fuck.

14:36

oh and yes, i'll crap out a qemu (or bochs - does anyone prefer bochs?) image.

14:36

highest grade i ever got in a math degree was 98% in a technical writing course ;0

14:36

vakgrind can use either?

14:36

*valgrind

14:36

<mod6> <+ben_vulpes> i've never written a charter, are there good examples out there? << me either, but we can work on it. no sweat. << you've read plenty of mpex contracts, good enough. keep it direct, plain and simp,le.

14:36

qemu sounds like a start

14:37

asciilifeform hopefully that's done by fri.

14:37

<+ben_vulpes> http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/x3j13-sd-05.html << this seems like a good, simple, plain example.

14:37

valgrind << will run inside. it attaches to a process. if you want out-of-band (say, kernel diddling) both emulators present 'gdb' interface to the outside, stop cpu, play

14:37

certainly the cl is a good antecessor.

14:38

redo the whole thing in cl in a night already

14:38

mircea_popescu: ok thanks, good point.

14:38

except it should be explicitly exclusive rather than inclusive. "We will NOT work with unqualified third parties, which is to say parties that have not satisfied their log reading and wot presence prequalifications."

14:39

mircea_popescu: care to upload a favourite and signed openbsd installer? then we roll tonight.

14:39

we'll draft up something, probably have something for all to look at by end of tomorrow or friday? hope that's not too long.

14:39

asciilifeform i rarely if at all run openbsd tho ?

14:39

mod6 if it's by friday it's perfect.

14:40

ok. sounds good. we'll dig in. :)

14:40

if lenin were alive today lenin would be begging us to let him in this chan.

14:42

who has the bitcoind tree? othernubs?

14:42

asciilifeform you mean the source tarballs ?

14:42

deturdified src

14:42

ben_vulpes prolly.

14:43

punkman yeah speaking of all this comotion, any chance we get the deedbot up by fri ?

14:43

!up FabianB

14:44

redo the whole thing in cl in a night already << ask me again in peacetime

14:45

*

jurov just snatched therealbitcoin.org/.com . we'll see.

14:46

can throw a git repo at it for starters

14:47

can';t hurt.

14:47

just http for now?

14:47

why not

14:48

https is about as useful as tits on a boar.

14:48

though no, best put a ssh thingy for commit on it

14:48

yes, ssh i meant

14:48

gpg commits!

14:48

get everyone used to checking sigs.

14:48

nonw of this ssh bs

14:48

none*

14:49

via irc bots! bring the noize!

14:49

mircea_popescu: i rarely if at all run openbsd tho << now we know, he has personal os and btc apparatus! with alien technology.

14:49

no idea how that works. you'd have to have git check against valid gpg sigs from blessed keys or something?

14:49

gpg commits << yay! somebody Gets It

14:49

jurov might be a good idea via bots, so people can commit from here directly, but even w/o that : a contrib that is signed is signed permanently.

14:49

a contrib that is submitted via ssh WAS, maybe, perhaps, signed at some point.

14:50

no real point trying to go through bots when git can do it right away

14:50

i have to look into how signed commits are done

14:50

bounce only because people see it in the logs.

14:50

jurov it can just be wrapped in gpg --clearsign you know ?

14:51

you can have git trigger a log whatnot and feed that to the other end of a bot

14:51

certainly.

14:51

mircea_popescu: but iirc it signs the diff, not just commit message

14:51

how to do signed commits << the barbarian way. everyone who read a patch file (yes) and is willing to sign under it, signs. this gets posted. whoever wants, can apply the patches to get a merged turdball.

14:51

punkman

mircea_popescu: yeah should be up by friday

14:51

i have no idea, never looked that closely.

14:51

!up Plaxant

14:51

!up Plaxant

14:51

too slow bingo

14:52

punkman ideal.

14:52

Yeah, I'm slowing in my old age

14:52

<asciilifeform> how to do signed commits << the barbarian way. everyone who read a patch file (yes) and is willing to sign under it, signs. this gets posted. whoever wants, can apply the patches to get a merged turdball. << i think this is exactly how it should go.

14:52

we need to create that "have read" accounting scheme i was talking about weeks ago.

14:52

there's no other way to trust software.

14:53

(while pretending you can run 'safe' sw)

14:53

this is all quite trivial, so far (until someone starts insisting on actual work)

14:53

it's one thing to trust this rnd function because asciilifeform and 25 others signed on reading it.

14:53

it's another to trust it because asciilifeform commited it, and therefore perhaps read it, and it's open source so therefore "billions of eye pairs"

14:53

!s eyes flies

14:53

4 results for 'eyes flies' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=eyes+flies

14:54

meant doesnt mean shit

14:54

meat*

14:54

depends how long it has in the sun

14:54

anyway, some years at the future

14:54

all will be same, just you will be pissed at other people

14:55

kakobrekla bitbet ?

14:55

only goes 1year

14:55

so then say this again later we see ? :D

14:55

anytime

14:55

incidentally, reserving signature for 'i approve this message' is braindamaged. should sign with comments like 'this line is ok unless goldbach's conjecture is proven false, then yer phucked' etc.

14:55

;;ident kakobrekla

14:55

Nick 'kakobrekla', with hostmask 'kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla', is not identified.

14:55

ha! SCAEM

14:55

sec

14:56

asciilifeform commenting the source code is never a bad idea.

14:56

commenting it to show when it won't work rather than "what you imagine it does" is even more useful.

14:56

;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:29b32a6e9c213016f07aaf303a9adac1b91adf57541c8ff3d298f2fc

14:56

You are now authenticated for user kakobrekla with key 27AF75321F2489E8

14:57

people need a lot more negativity in their life to be happy and productive and members of society.

14:57

^^^^

14:57

Plaxant

mircea_popescu agree, if you have no negativity in your life you skate and just don't care about doing better.

14:58

Plaxant

it's like trying to eliminate stress, never going to happen.

14:58

and why did this have to wait for crackpot to ask for a printed satoshi turd, i wonder.

14:58

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00073623 = 8.209 BTC [-]

14:58

I'd probably want a mailinglist to toss patches around, though

14:59

bounce: toss them around by carrier pigeon or catapult if you like. if they're signed, they're signed.

14:59

yeah well i wonder why is anyone still connected to irc being all idealistic and shit

15:00

Bet created: "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $70 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1059/

15:02

kakobrekla: why is anyone still connected to irc << priced pigeons lately?

15:02

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00073501 = 9.0039 BTC [-] {3}

15:03

i vote for patch delivery via ICBMs

15:03

pigeons are more idealistic?!

15:03

submarine.

15:04

so, my point did not get across?

15:04

;;google RFC 1149

15:04

RFC 1149 - Standard for the transmission of IP datagrams on avian ...: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149>; IP over Avian Carriers (1149) - Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>; RFC1149 avia - Internet FAQ Archives: <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html>

15:06

asciilifeform cause it's how things run in this life.

15:06

never underestimate the importance of crackpot demands.

15:07

kakobrekla didn't, no. you're too dry for this language :)

15:10

"US will monitor travelers for three weeks when arriving from Ebola-stricken countries" it begins...

15:10

*nobody able to discern any change*

15:12

!up bradedwards

15:12

ircing on a broken sw stack running on a broken hw stack

15:12

weird some nuke doesnt go off when i do !up

15:13

kakobrekla yet./

15:13

kakobrekla: lol. if all the hatemail i got, on this specific theme, were to be printed, it would be as tall as my leg.

15:14

bradedwards

Hey room, I was told about you all by a friend of mine Mitch Callahan. He showed me Qntra, and I like your approach. Less corporate news, more honest. Less polished, mroe of the harsh truths the community needs to hear. Just wanted to stop by and voice my appreciation and support

15:14

'you lamer, betcha own x86 boxes and like it, trololol'

15:14

why 'hate' mail ?

15:14

heh

15:14

asciilifeform you got tall legs ?

15:14

punkman

interesting https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252674.0 https://blockchain.info/address/1FYMZEHnszCHKTBdFZ2DLrUuk3dGwYKQxh

15:14

First post and an interesting observation about ECDSA

15:14

Bitcoin Address 1FYMZEHnszCHKTBdFZ2DLrUuk3dGwYKQxh

15:14

reasonably.

15:14

bradedwards that's nice. now get in the wot ?

15:14

Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $70 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1059/ Odds: 96(Y):4(N) by coin, 96(Y):4(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,982.

15:15

bradedwards

the wot?

15:15

its more of a 'truth' mail

15:15

:D

15:15

<asciilifeform> 'you lamer, betcha own x86 boxes and like it, trololol' << pete got a bunch of that on his software doesn't fail recent thing too

15:15

;;google what the wot is, how it works and how to use it

15:15

How WOT ratings work | Help Center | WOT (Web of Trust): <http://www.mywot.com/en/faq/website/rating-websites>; Why WOT works | WOT (Web of Trust): <http://www.mywot.com/en/support/how-wot-works>; What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe Trilema - Un ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/>

15:15

;;google first steps in bitcoin-assets

15:15

start [bitcoin assets wiki]: <http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/>; Why the IRS Is Taxing Bitcoins as an Asset - The Motley Fool: <http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/26/why-the-irs-is-taxing-bitcoins-as-an-asset.aspx>; Bitcoin fund launches - Futures: <http://www.futuresmag.com/2014/09/22/bitcoin-fund-launches>

15:15

bradedwards ^

15:15

not the lamer part, but the x86.

15:16

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5432 @ 0.00073465 = 3.9906 BTC [-]

15:17

we did talk about this.

15:17

no need to rehash.

15:17

!s bitsquatting

15:17

5 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitsquatting

15:17

ah that

15:17

nvm

15:18

^ re: the evil addr thing

15:18

re: x86 << remember the stories of downed pilots dining on insects? that.

15:19

myea

15:19

dunno when the dignity kicks in

15:19

if you ended up stranded on the island of ugly women, you WOULD fuck ugly women, until they had some less ugly daughters to fuck

15:20

incest selection!

15:20

there we go.

15:20

then you'd make the two least ugly make out together, too.

15:20

personal decision really.

15:20

which is kinda what we're doing here.

15:20

kakobrekla no homo ?

15:21

no homo.

15:21

nttawwi

15:22

you can as well not fuck.

15:22

and i mean anything.

15:22

right. but you are here.

15:22

you can as well not fuck << the perelman solution, yes.

15:22

yup

15:22

i personally know fine folks who've perelmanned. e.g., al schwartz. i miss them, but understand.

15:23

i guess he has the dignity.

15:23

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nqnZJRUl4zU/TAz29K6wHXI/AAAAAAAADh8/W2G-zn0Sq3Y/s400/Meet+the+Tiger+Dog+Chinese+pet+owners+dye+pets+to+look+like+wild+animals+in+new+craze+1.jpg

15:23

kakobrekla the dignity of virgins is a metaphysical subject.

15:23

cool, i like meta.

15:27

tiger dogs. very chinese thing to do.

15:27

only if they are eaten

15:27

assbot: NOT OK GOOGLE: Android images can conceal code The Register << steganography strikes again. hard as shit to filter.

15:28

fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/7t3Ow2A.png <<< lol this is just about right.

15:28

hard as shit to filter << rigorously provably impossible.

15:28

in the general case.

15:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00073632 = 6.5532 BTC [+] {2}

15:28

well sure, but the general case is uncommon :D

15:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7492 @ 0.00073769 = 5.5268 BTC [+]

15:30

obligatory: https://code.google.com/p/corkami <<<< and grep for 'polyglot'

15:30

corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting

15:31

mircea_popescu: ikr

15:31

how do they manage to take a picture and end up feeding it to the package installer? o_O

15:31

because user friendly ?

15:31

pretty sure the paclkage manager handles pics on a routine basis

15:32

then I'd say "user friendly" is the security vulnerability here

15:33

well yes, idiot user is the vulnerability.

15:33

similarly with some of the vectors to use shell shock. how does a dns lookup request end up on the server being fed to a bash process, exactly?

15:33

that was biw.

15:33

;;ud biw

15:33

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=biw | Apr 28, 2012 ... biw. A common used phrase on the internet in the Netherlands. It means 'ben ik weer' - 'i'm back'. 'Biw, is er iets mis?' - 'Biw, is there something ...

15:33

ultimately, looking for vulns in a system that doesn't fit in a head is rather like looking for particular health problems in a fresh corpse.

15:34

mno. "because it works"

15:35

"idiot user" is too easily said. the real problem is lack of education and devs going "oh we'll make the software SMRT so you don't have to think at all!"

15:37

for idiot users - idiot vulns. for clever users - clever ones. to each - his own.

15:37

bounce you mayhap have a point. iirc this vuln was writing past the end tag and adding a 2nd spurious end tag.

15:37

could have been used to exploit say tar just as well.

15:38

so not really user's fault in any sense. bad parsers.

15:38

$depth S.QNTR

15:38

mircea_popescu: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=86 Or use a valid MPSIC!

15:38

$depth S.MPOE

15:38

mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Bids: 13705 @ 0.00073465 27750 @ 0.00073452 14087 @ 0.00073449 13975 @ 0.00073433

15:39

mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Asks: 3774 @ 0.00073585 2768 @ 0.00073769 40436 @ 0.00074160 5200 @ 0.00074177

15:39

FabianB any idea why it doesn't like qntr ?

15:40

prolly nothing the the your feed

15:40

-the

15:40

wtf

15:40

i cant even type

15:40

http://mpex.co/mpex-mktdepth.php << it's there.

15:40

!t m s.qntr

15:41

Some are born to endless night.

15:41

emmm

15:41

well no tickers it never traded yt

15:41

mpex seems down for me.

15:41

$proxies

15:41

mircea_popescu: Proxies: mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91

15:41

!t m s.mpoe

15:41

[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00073465 / 0.00073821 / 0.0007416 (1074379 shares, 793.12 BTC), 7D: 0.0007342 / 0.00073847 / 0.00074252 (7160396 shares, 5,287.81 BTC), 30D: 0.00073316 / 0.0007424 / 0.00075684 (26086000 shares, 19,366.28 BTC)

15:41

lemme check.biz

15:41

that werks

15:41

mircea_popescu: MPEx-Status: mpex.co (94 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (446 milliseconds), mpex.ws (4839 milliseconds), mpex.biz (error), mpex.bz (error)

15:41

kakobrekla yes becasuse s.mpoe traded.

15:41

mircea_popescu: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √

15:41

huh

15:42

;;isup mpex.ws

15:42

mpex.ws is up

15:42

hmm. i can't get to any of 'em, maybe i r blocked

15:42

yes i understand, i was just checking if there something wrong with the feed when mod6 mentioned 'down'

15:42

bz/biz up here

15:42

;;isup mpex.biz

15:42

mpex.biz is up

15:42

mod6 possibly a dns isasue ? nobody;'s blocked.

15:42

pls to check for cache poisonings!

15:42

hmm. ill see.

15:42

and let me know

15:43

im listening to some french dude and can hardly assemble sentences at same time

15:43

doesnt happen with englishmen

15:44

maybe he's a rapper ?

15:44

how about trying to assemble french sentences?

15:44

takes too much brainpower to parse and decrypt frenchmen

15:44

lol

15:45

http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/21/investing/warren-buffett-berkshire-lost-2-billion/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

this is how they went from world empire to belgian suburb.

15:46

diametric

15:46

Warren Buffett's Berkshire loses $2 billion in two days - Oct. 21, 2014

15:46

diametric

lolz.

15:46

o noes ?!

15:47

no link to bitbet?

15:48

llol

15:48

cnn is a libtard venue i read somewhere.

15:49

but i mean big fucking deal, when bitcoin went from 1200 to 600 i "lost" like a bn too.

15:49

no link to bitbet << It Would Be Wrong! (TM)

15:49

But it's not all bad news for Berkshire. Investors are sticking with their icon. Berkshire stock climbed slightly on Monday and Tuesday, and is up more than 17% this year -- far outpacing the broader market. <<< consider this lulz.

15:50

ko missed, tesco lost 50% yoy, ibm just paid a bn to gut itself. so now it's basically a real estate agent (as previously discussed, in these very logs, before the news hit)

15:50

yet the berkshire stock is... up. because logics.

15:50

"sticking with their icon" captures it

15:51

so i guess we'll be... sticking it to them ?

15:51

with their iron ?

15:52

berkshire isn't a holding company.

15:52

or, an investment fund.

15:52

couple stock holdings taking a hit isn't that big a deal

15:52

how isn't it a holding company ?!

15:53

s/holding company/investment fund/

15:53

ah

15:53

if it loses the usg bezzle lifeline (wf) it's gonna be "all" rather than "some" tho.

15:53

your FUD won't win you that bitbet ;)

15:54

lolk

15:56

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00073459 = 7.0888 BTC [-] {2}

15:56

anyway, i wonder if his continued purchases as the stock market goes down indicate that the bonds will get axed or that he's out of the loop

15:57

;;isup qntra.net

15:57

berkshire wells fargo holdings are currently worth $24B

15:57

qntra.net is down

15:57

look at that, dow is only down 1.5% today

15:57

nowai again ?!

15:57

Again

15:58

which represents 7% of brk.a market cap

15:58

plus he would get good tax benefits if it went to 0

15:58

BingoBoingo there's a dns issue in progress.

15:58

Ah, ic

15:58

can you reach it via ip ?

15:58

warren has a fortress. not easily assailable.

15:59

mike_c except if the dow continues doing 1-2 percents a day for the next three months.

15:59

asciilifeform iirc you mentioned some skin irritation/allergies and the lack of those in ro?

15:59

IP Address 127.0.0.1 - 149,233 other sites hosted on this server per http://whois.domaintools.com/qntra.net

15:59

last 3 months: dow -5%, brk +7%

15:59

BingoBoingo dns poisoned!

16:00

I dunno just quoting site that calls itself "domain tools"

16:00

nuts.

16:00

the 127.0.0.1 may simply be a historical record

16:00

kakobrekla: yes. i've a year-round allergy from 1993 or so to present time, with small break during trip to Ro

16:00

at least now _we_ know the cause.

16:01

BingoBoingo http://pastebin.com/JUFBdyyp << that's how dns response should look

16:01

;; QUESTION SECTION: ;qntra.net.INA ;; ANSWER SECTION: qntra.net.0IN - Pastebin.com

16:01

Error: "QUESTION" is not a valid command.

16:01

BingoBoingo 127.0.0.1 is localhost.

16:01

Website works

16:01

*** google-public-dns-a.google.com can't find qntra.net: Server failed

16:01

there's some sort of dns attax at work.

16:01

mircea_popescu: I know local host, but didn't qntra.net point there at one point?

16:02

BingoBoingo not recently tho

16:02

SERVFAIL. oopsie.

16:02

da fuck.

16:02

well, until i hear any better this is neither malicious nor qntra/polimedia ns specific.

16:03

some dns infrastructure just caught fire and fell over it seems

16:03

yeah, your nameservers

16:03

mike_c no, because they answer me.

16:03

you may have a local cache that hasn't timed out yet

16:04

hm.

16:04

asciilifeform its x86.

16:04

what was that across-the-globe dns thingy again?

16:04

kakobrekla: the cause << lol, berkshire?

16:04

nslookup qntra.net 206.190.151.180

16:04

bounce, https://www.whatsmydns.net/ ?

16:04

Global DNS Propagation Checker - What's My DNS?

16:04

Server failed

16:05

asciilifeform x86, transmittable over irc

16:05

kakobrekla: loltron. nah, we had an 'iskra' (8086 clone originally built for soviet tanks.) so no dice.

16:05

well viruses and bacteria evolve.

16:05

yes, thanks. broken everywhere.

16:06

yeah it's broken.

16:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18492 @ 0.00073708 = 13.6301 BTC [+] {3}

16:22

i dunno how the fuck i keep getting spam then, hesus.

16:27

qntra down eh

16:28

cazalla some dns issue i dunno wtf it is but being workt on

16:30

does nubs have a deturdified bitcoind src?

16:31

mkay...so is there a consensus what should therealbitcoin host? only http git repo for now?

16:31

host the real altcoin?

16:32

i make a joke see

16:32

oh. ha ha. so, [x] laughed. next item.

16:33

in short order it will be hosting the charter i assume.

16:33

jurov is gonna get ddosed

16:33

i suggest going with whoever had the mailing list idea. emphasize the 'we sign things and so mechanism doesn't matter' aspect.

16:34

$depth S.QNTR

16:34

FabianB: [S.QNTR] Bids: 1000 @ 0.00014000 10000 @ 0.00013514 20000 @ 0.00012995 100000 @ 0.00009995

16:34

FabianB: [S.QNTR] Asks:

16:34

-- and that way the www site can be 100 percent static.

16:35

mircea_popescu: ^^ fixed

16:36

$mpexstatus

16:36

FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.coinbr.com mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.biz Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91

16:36

FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.coinbr.com (706 milliseconds), mpex.co (947 milliseconds), mpex.ws (error), mpex.bz (error), mpex.biz (error)

16:36

FabianB: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: ✗

16:37

okay, so i'll go make s3 bucket for it. if someone throws terabytes/day on it and makes it expensive for me then we'll see what next

16:37

depth up vwap down ??

16:38

well it doesnt need to be up at all times

16:38

just that host doesnt kick you

16:38

jurov: mircea_popescu: why is http://mpex.co/mpex-vwap.php and http://mpex.coinbr.com/mpex-vwap.php different?

16:38

cause one is coinbr

16:38

and the other is mpex

16:38

:)

16:38

FabianB: mircea asked for it to be cached

16:38

ic, so coinbr is older

16:38

so it is 5 mins or so.

16:39

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00073942 = 6.9505 BTC [+]

16:39

jurov: but http://mpex.co/mpex-mktdepth.php and http://mpex.coinbr.com/mpex-vwap.php look identical

16:40

jurov: is vwap and depth mixed up?

16:40

obv they aren't cached/invalidated at the same time

16:40

jurov: no, coinbr vwap.php shows mktdepth.php content

16:40

ahhh

16:41

that's why mpexstatus shows vwap as being broken i think

16:41

it only checks the health indicator line for the first proxy (fastest ping proxy), which above was coinbr proxy

16:42

<FabianB> mircea_popescu: ^^ fixed < ty!

16:43

oh interesting huh

16:43

i dare suggest a simple antisp4mz0r filter for mailing list - only messages signed from +v #b-a folks accepted.

16:43

what, just like deeds registrar ?

16:43

bitbet - worst support ever!

16:43

so basically... deeds-based mail list ?

16:43

aha.

16:44

just like asciilifeform slaves in the us i must talk to strangers over email :(

16:44

kakobrekla at least you don;t have to moderate for child porn.

16:44

yet

16:44

i was assbot the other day

16:45

recall that?

16:45

oh

16:45

i should clarify, not literal +v, incl. 'up' folks. the magic 29 pubkeys.

16:46

will work, fleanode or no fleanode

16:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00073942 = 3.845 BTC [+]

16:48

better than ignoring the sender would be making the sender unable to send in the first place.

16:50

gotta start somewhere

16:50

i confess that i rather like the mailing list idea. readily convertible to 'apocalyptic' shortwave radio...

16:51

shortwave radio mailing lists? o_O?

16:52

if you can get a signed gibblet in, by land, by sea, by pigeon - and signature is one of the chosen - message is in next broadcast. 'cheap and angry' - like 'mpex' et al.

16:52

*

bounce would like bitcoin address-signed mail. if you're going ahead with the signage requirement, lemme see if I can whip up a verifier for that.

16:53

mircea_popescu: cazalla by the way, intel sez that the reason you've not heard from sgornick nor will you is that the guy meanwhile figured out i'm involved, and doesn't like me either because i said nigger or cunt at some point in the past. <<< what a fucking cunt

16:53

"bitcoin address-signed mail" // meh, what's wrong with gpg keys ?

16:53

bad enough that btc uses ecdsa. i rather wish it were something that could be discouraged, rather than we were to depend yet more on it.

16:54

^ this

16:54

^

16:54

the email signage is clunky. both kinds. all kinds, really.

16:54

;;isup qntra.net

16:54

qntra.net is up

16:54

the ecdsa stuff is short enough to fit conveniently in a header or two

16:54

okay. i have nfi what happened there, but rolled new dns servers and all seems well ?

16:55

bounce what'd be the benefit ?

16:55

bounce: re: short & convenient ecdsa keys << 'the easy cheese lives - in the mousetrap.'

16:55

someone more familiar with github than I should probably set up the repository

16:56

just clone 0.5.3 into it for now and we can identify what gets chucked from there

16:56

wow the oiriginal nubbins!

16:56

nubbins`, I think jurov is on it

16:56

hey listen we had an impostor here for days

16:56

no ugly as fuck crap added to the body, basically. proper integration with email by using its facilities instead of reinventing them, clunkily.

16:56

mircea_popescu am i even better in person?!

16:56

it was like... let's string him along guyse

16:56

mp i hope you tricked him into thinking he was gonna print a bunch of stuff

16:56

bounce i was talking about "sign with bitcoin address"

16:56

nubbins` no, asciilifeform did that.

16:57

it was a riot, you shoulda seen

16:57

heh

16:57

and so was I

16:57

imagine!

16:57

bounce i do not use an "email client" that's gpg able

16:57

My worry with ECDSA for signing critical things is using the same keypair too many times increases the chances a bad k can enter the mix

16:57

nor do i think it's a half -good idea.

16:57

BingoBoingo quite.

16:58

actually i suppose a better idea is to deturdify 0.5.3 first

16:58

perhaps as important : bitcoin addresses are for getting paid. NOT for proving your identity

16:58

mixing these two is antidesign.

16:58

no sense including turds in first commit

16:58

sign with your signature, pay with your wallet.

16:58

no sense including turds in first commit << surprisingly, i must disagree. we gotta show the pedigree from classical bitcoind.

16:59

a-ha, that's also fair

16:59

lol yeap.

16:59

so clone 0.5.3 to our tree as 0.5.3

16:59

remove qt etc, add non-shit additions from 0.6-0.6.3

16:59

release it as real 0.6

17:00

first someone please unearth a genuine vintage tarball of 0.5.3. github of poundation sc4mz0rz could be doctored.

17:00

dance into the sunset holding hands

17:00

why not release it as real 0.1

17:00

cuz it's not teh 0.1 not rly.

17:00

it's not 0.6 rly either

17:00

i could see an argument for releasing it as the real 0.9 tho

17:00

sure it is

17:00

or w/e the derps are doing currently.

17:01

haha head 'em off

17:01

bitcoin x

17:01

hey thickasthieves, wake up and back me up. this things needs different branding.

17:01

i'd be more in favor of mirroring derp release numbers for now

17:01

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-10-2014#888296

17:01

Logged on 22-10-2014 17:56:50; othernubs`: copy the cream, chuck the crap

17:02

next release, 0.7, takes actual improvements from 0.7.* series and weeds out crud

17:02

etc

17:02

uh, like all of it?

17:02

why the fuck would this project follow in derpy footsteps?

17:02

yeah srsly.

17:02

first - we pillage. Then - we burn.

17:02

heh

17:03

guy got the order right

17:03

asciilifeform but pillage the whole thing in one go.

17:03

this is assuming there are useful bugfixes in 0.7-0.9

17:03

right, which is v0.1 - pillaging.

17:03

yes.

17:03

i'm sure there must be

17:03

however few

17:03

mike_c why "different branding" ?

17:03

this is what, a couple weeks of sifting to identify em

17:03

we'd be at 0.9 by xmas

17:03

because it will be different (and better)

17:04

no, core is different :D

17:04

but it will still be "bitcoin"

17:04

and that is worth signifying, instead of looking like a clone.

17:04

mike_c usgavin's crap is the different

17:04

and worse.

17:04

that's the message here. we got the brand.

17:04

exactly, so why follow their lead?

17:04

reactionary deeds, not mere words, yes.

17:04

the wanna-bes on the outskirts of bitcoin are making baseless claims to a continuity that doesn't exist.

17:05

i would rather use b-a bitcoin v0.1 over derpy bitcoin v0.9

17:05

mike_c the crocodile that opens maw to let stuff in, then lets water back out is not following toads lead.

17:05

it's merely eating toads.

17:05

yeah, and to follow this odd analogy, it doesn't call itself "toad". it calls itself "crocodile"

17:06

anyway, getting ahead of ourselves

17:06

which is what we're calling ourselves. bitcoin.

17:06

first step, 0.5.3->real 0.6

17:06

bounce wishes the politicians would show some spine here. take their local passport, wave goodbye, declare them europe-wide persona non grata for all eternity. problem solved. <<< they sorta did that here but cancelled the passports so that they couldn't leave australia and not after

17:06

ditch the fractional versions. 1, 2, 3, infinity. natural numbers.

17:06

mike_c think of it strategically. won't it be funny when usgavin is stuck arguing that a) he's forking bitcoin and b) it's the real bitcoin ?

17:06

fractional versions serve purpose normally (not in bitcoincore fantasyland)

17:06

why not just call it 1.0?

17:07

put usg people in usg type positions.

17:07

PeterL mostly cause not mature.

17:07

what does it need to be mature?

17:07

to be 1.0 ? tradition.

17:07

a specification?

17:07

;;google tradition tradition!

17:07

Tradition!Tradition! - Jewish Gifts and Fine Judaica: <http://www.traditiontradition.com/>; Fiddler on the roof - Tradition ( with subtitles ) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw>; Tradition (song) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition_(song)>

17:07

The ubuntu naked people from 4.10 http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Ubuntu_Warty_visual_theme/Image_archive

17:07

Ubuntu Warty visual theme/Image archive - Geek Feminism Wiki

17:07

1.0 can be the first version that has no more bitcoincore legacy code in it

17:08

that won't likely ever happen.

17:08

what may perhaps happen is a day when gavin, mike and co finally go full-ethereum

17:08

and make a "bitcoin" that has no more bitcoin in it at all.

17:09

i confess - i actually like moldy's 'kelvin versioning.'

17:09

asciilifeform on the c machine tho ?

17:09

and also, it's kuhns

17:09

start at temperature, e.g., 500K. then 'cooling'. theoretically 0K means it will -never- be reasonable to change it. ever.

17:09

BingoBoingo: I remember that; bizarre

17:09

do the java thing and call it Bitcoin 6

17:09

fuck everything

17:10

windows thing and call it Bitcoin 2014

17:10

asciilifeform seriously, donald kuhn did that.

17:10

my instinct is that any versioning system other than following the derps would be better

17:10

on anything, hell, univac. kelvin versioning doesn't mean you will never throw the whole thing away. just experesses the concept that code must cool down to pefect crystalline form, rather than accumulating turdacles.

17:10

<+nubbins`> do the java thing and call it Bitcoin 6 << haha

17:11

knuth's 'pi versioning' of TeX, yes

17:11

why do i keep calling the poor man kuhn

17:11

dylsexiaday.

17:11

fuck.

17:12

mircea_popescu you may get gavin & co to ethereum mode sooner rather than later

17:12

mike_c not a bad instinct generally, but gotta start somewhere.

17:12

asciilifeform: would the "crystalline" form only describe features? this seems to fly in the face of the "provably correct" conversation of the other day

17:12

los_pantalones apparently.

17:12

just heard these guys closed 50mm

17:12

http://blockstream.com/

17:12

Blockstream

17:12

in that there will always be ways to break things, and always a need for fixes

17:12

los_pantalones ahahaha with whom

17:12

0.0001K -> 0.00009K ?

17:12

standard vc collective

17:12

mircea_popescu: Kuhn is the one who tried the versioning things with science http://www.amazon.com/The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/dp/0226458083

17:12

The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, 3rd Edition: Thomas S. Kuhn: 9780226458083: Amazon.com: Books

17:13

<+undata> in that there will always be ways to break things, and always a need for fixes << yeah.. one way to break things is to add "fixes"

17:13

should be fun to watch.

17:13

it always is

17:13

we aren't doing 'provably correct' or even 'fits in head' quite yet. just a reasonably sane janitorial job on classical bitcoind. downed pilot has to eat, whether the fauna have four legs, six, or a thousand.

17:14

mike_c: yes one way, but certainly not the only

17:14

los_pantalones so basically.. maxwell, wuille towards the end, and WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE lol

17:14

on the phone was told 'a bunch of people from bitcoin core dev'

17:14

then i looked at the site

17:14

Wait, isn't sidechains just namecoin or any other merge mined thing, but without history?

17:14

and had the same reaction

17:14

"Francesca Hall Co-Founder Since joining Blockstream as team coordinator, she has become an expert in complex systems, chaos theory, system automation, and large scale organizational challenges"

17:14

no, seriously ?

17:15

so possibly some others in the works

17:15

but that's pure speculation from a game of telephone

17:15

BingoBoingo vaguely seems like that.

17:15

los_pantalones so who is francesca hall lol.

17:15

you tell me

17:15

ol wise one

17:15

Except each side chain gets their own deedbot?

17:15

i want some smart chicks that become experts in complex systems and chaos theory over a semester

17:15

i never met one irl.

17:15

<+mike_c> hey thickasthieves, wake up and back me up. this things needs different branding. /// well i think the whole .0.0 whatever shit is retarded

17:16

.0.0... retarded << very much

17:16

los_pantalones well, prolly not the same, but intel has "The latest Tweets from Francesca Hall (@FrancescaHRH). In the semi final heat for Miss England 2015 " to share.

17:16

haha, if only

17:16

<+asciilifeform> ditch the fractional versions. 1, 2, 3, infinity. natural numbers. /// yeah, see

17:17

you give it a name, and the first version is 1

17:17

.0.0... retarded << very much << yes it does look like retarded emoticon

17:17

i like the 'kelvin' variant, but this is a matter of taste.

17:17

los_pantalones o no fucking way, they got like a dozen and they're all co founders and supposedly equally so ?!

17:17

Oh badusb got commercialized http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/10/22/185244/ftdi-reportedly-bricking-devices-using-competitors-chips

17:17

FTDI Reportedly Bricking Devices Using Competitors' Chips. - Slashdot

17:17

that can be mr mold's contribution to civilization. we can credit him.

17:17

*

mircea_popescu is seriously considering expanding the derps. this is good shit.

17:18

"Jorge Timón Co-Founder Jorge Timón is a software engineer with 4 years of experience at Indra, working on big international projects including software for several insurance companies."

17:18

blockstream has nice logo

17:19

i see the "3 year's experience" thing got a ++ ?

17:19

why the everliving fuck is usbid on any ftdi - genuine or chinese - reflashable inband ?!?!

17:19

<+kakobrekla> blockstream has nice logo -- not bad, i'd have gone for less segments in the icon

17:19

los_pantalones uhm... from what i hear the 50 mn reports may be grossly exaggerated.

17:20

possible

17:20

was a single call

17:20

thickasthieves more segments, more mm.

17:20

i always wondered

17:20

in the sense that if i donate to the bitcoin foundation a btc and consider maybe donating another 100 in time

17:20

guy should know

17:20

i cant argue with more is more

17:20

it has not in fact received 101 btc financing.

17:20

*

kakobrekla learns from best chumpatrons

17:20

understood, ty for the clarification

17:20

waitasec, this is funded project? why?

17:20

actually bricking? oh dear. that is maybe a little too enthousiastic. but the poor chinese copies claiming to be ftdi then only implementing half the stuff and causing trouble that reflects badly on ftdi would tire me out, honestly.

17:21

*

bounce wouldn't be surprised to learn the chips bricked themselves because they're not up to spec

17:21

sounds like a distinct possiblity bounce

17:23

setting product id to 0. didn't know they even had programmable vid/pid

17:24

yes reprogrammable, it's intended as a prototype aid. but why inband?!?!

17:24

and, hm, if the device proclaims to be vendor x / product y, then does the vendor have a right to say "but I didn't make this, this is fake. not my product" and set product id to 0?

17:24

i always hated inband reflashable fw in consumer products. invitation for mice.

17:25

first sale doctrine probably says "no" though. but oh so tempting.

17:26

how does first sale doctrine say no ?

17:26

by the time the driver hits the owner is the client, not the fake vendor nor the real vendor

17:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.0007413 = 16.7534 BTC [+] {2}

17:26

so ?

17:27

you may recall a deffective automobile even if the owner is the owner not you

17:27

the owner will still have to voluntarily submit the product back to the vendor.

17:27

which he allegedly did by allowing it to be 0'd ?

17:28

bounce: ;;seen mistere <<< after #b-a went +m, he said he was leaving

17:28

er. how did the owner say "yes please?", given that they evidently didn't see it coming?

17:28

oh, alright.

17:28

well, evidently.

17:29

for that matter, it'd be funny if the first sale doctrine protected the owners of counterfit gucci bags.

17:30

counterfiat

17:30

be like, "yeah, it's a fake, but you can't do jack because this guy paid that guy ten bux for it."

17:30

hm. I don't think they've been gone after, have they?

17:30

Maybe I prefer bootleg USB controllers?

17:31

bounce no idea, prolly not. kinda fringe

17:31

not sure if it'd make sense to even put the defense on first sale, but worth a shot.

17:31

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.0007416 = 6.8227 BTC [+]

17:32

anyhow, I get where they're coming from but it's still a dodgy move.

17:32

well sure it is, no argument there.

17:33

my point was entirely that the first sale thing prolly won't take you far.

17:36

prolly not. tortuous to say the least. but lots of legal wrangling is exactly that.

17:36

inexactly that :)

17:36

you're saying legal eagles are a bunch of sloppy cunts?

17:37

you know, the same way "phenotypically divergent" does not necessarily mean an extremely skinny chick with extremely large tits and improbably long legs. it could also mean disproportionately large head

17:37

MagnusonMoss Warranty Act would prolly be the way to protect your bootleg usb chips in US court

17:37

no, im just saying yours is the bad kind of tortured.

17:38

bingo's just as tortured, but it looks maybe more fit to thrive.

17:38

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/09/20/1651241/why-you-cant-manufacture-like-apple << not entirely unrelated

17:38

Why You Can't Manufacture Like Apple - Slashdot

17:38

``The licence only allows use of the Software with, and the Software will only work with Genuine FTDI Components (as defined in the Licence Terms). Use of the Software as a driver for a component that is not a Genuine FTDI Component MAY IRRETRIEVABLY DAMAGE THAT COMPONENT.'' -- well, they did do and went covered their arse.

17:38

holy shit i just wasted 5 minutes of my life.

17:38

http://blockstream.com/sidechains.pdf

17:38

mike_c how many times did i say not to pdf :D

17:39

you don't want to read it anyway

17:39

if someone makes a powerpoint they may be worth a fuck, but if someone makes a pdf its not worth your time.

17:39

so save us four minutes and tell us why?

17:40

sidechains! pegged to bitcoin! don't worry about the fact that it won't fucking work and the sidechains will collapse. we'll figure something out.

17:40

this that old thing again or did someone do a similar thing anew?

17:40

also requires a "soft-fork" of bitcoin, but don't worry, that's not as bad as a hard fork.

17:40

not that I paid attention the first time around, mind.

17:40

seems like the old tihng again.

17:40

re-ethereum

17:41

which was re-ripple

17:41

which was re-etc.

17:41

yeah but they didn't have symmetric two way pegs.

17:41

oh sorry.

17:41

DOUBLE DONGS SAVE THE DAY

17:42

http://www.reddit.com/r/TakeBack4chan/comments/2gsppl/our_plan_of_action/ << in other news.

17:42

Our plan of action : TakeBack4chan

17:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00073942 = 9.1688 BTC [-]

17:45

I'm oblivious as to the drama that spawned this

17:46

re: FTDI scandal - the real sc4mz0rz are the usb standard phoundation folks, who charge for IDs. the only reason any of this is happening.

17:46

^

17:47

bounce it's like the previous one with some sed

17:47

uh, no. they're faking the ftdi vid/pid so the driver'll work

17:49

they fake it because even if you implement a standard device class (e.g. HID) you have to fake someone's. or you fork over ~4k usd to parasite scum for a 'legit' id.

17:50

well, yes, they probably should sell, say, fractional VIDs (VID+16 PIDs or so) for a nicely small fraction of the cost

17:50

like domain names ?

17:50

(there was a guy that did exactly that, expressly for hobbyist purposes, but he got shot down, I think)

17:50

like domain names would be were there zero downward pressure on prices, and a single registrar.

17:51

domain names have a slightly bigger available space

17:51

asciilifeform: So like ISBN?

17:51

for comparison, OUIs cost $1250 last time I checked

17:51

16 bits of usb vendor id. that's it.

17:52

ISBN blocks come in variable sizes. forgot the size of the price structure.

17:52

it's about like a domain name, isbn

17:52

https://www.myidentifiers.com/get-your-isbn-now << bounce now for more than 100 blocks you need to inquire

17:52

Bowker | Identifier Services

17:53

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

17:53

http://i.imgur.com/8XqmkJM.jpg

17:53

they're apparently about to run out of numbers. so they tack on three digits for a net gain of one bit

17:53

*

bounce wasn't too impressed by that move

17:53

death to centralized number peddlers

17:54

what prevented device IDs being uuids?

17:54

well, there's these cheap chinese boxes that come without MAC assigned; somewhere on bootup it'll just make one up

17:54

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-10-2014#861596 << so what does he do? tries to cause the grief he intended to stop

17:54

Logged on 06-10-2014 21:06:55; gribble: Sent 7 minutes ago: <sgornick> Re: Qntra.net, I registered @Qntra on Twitter before some griefer /squatter did. Then put a Twitterfeed to push tweets from the RSS feed. When you want the twitter acct, let me know what e-mail to assign it to. It can't be an e-mail already used for any other twitter account.

17:54

mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/8XqmkJM.jpg << ever read the infamous 'spoons' essay?

17:55

that's like, really useful if you're trying to manage your shop over dhcp

17:55

have not, no.

17:55

mircea_popescu: http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory

17:55

But You Dont Look Sick? support for those with invisible illness or chronic illness The Spoon Theory written by Christine Miserandino - But You Dont Look Sick? support for those with invisible illness or chronic illness

17:56

invisible illness ?

17:56

wait, this is a disease you don;t have but gets you welfare ?

17:56

mircea_popescu: e.g., 'aids'

17:56

o

17:56

mircea_popescu: You know invisible illness like schizophrenia of HIV++

17:56

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2803444/Florida-man-weighs-500-POUNDS-big-fit-police-car-resists-arrest-sitting-ground.html

17:56

Florida man Howard Hendrix resists arrest by sitting on the ground | Daily Mail Online

17:57

asciilifeform: AIDs is visible, not very, but visible

17:57

mircea_popescu: was born in florida; this checks out

18:00

you can take the man out of florida, but can you take florida out of the man?

18:00

bounce: I chant "outlier" at night to help myself sleep.

18:00

Oh, working for USG no immunity from usg http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jury-reaches-verdict-blackwater-guards-trial-26373170

18:00

Blackwater Guards Found Guilty in Iraq Shootings - ABC News

18:00

until your neighbours call the cops to report a disturbance of the peace?

18:01

http://i.imgur.com/HugAGqg.png

18:02

i uh...

18:02

o.O

18:02

too clean to understand this

18:02

^

18:02

mircea_popescu is wallowing with the eagles? mega-lol though

18:02

fuckin smell shamer

18:03

well i somehow ended up looking for internets drama

18:03

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15651 @ 0.00073811 = 11.5522 BTC [-] {2}

18:03

for my sins, this query is readily but abundantly satisfied.

18:05

asciilifeform you familiar with https://gitian.org/ ?

18:05

Gitian: a secure software distribution method

18:05

hey nubbins` , good sir, can I get a rating for purchasing them posters :D?

18:05

http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal << entirely different silicon. from this we learn!! that a) they copied it because usb id is charged for by rent-seeking scumz0rs b) winblows includes ftdi driver already. relationship with microshit. so chinese were forced into this.

18:06

TheNewDeal, i'm very parsimonious with my ratings

18:06

i'm sure you'll understand :/

18:06

(how did i make this inference? simply from the fact of the actual die not being a copy. which would have been the obvious explanation.

18:07

understood, but I'm in dire need

18:07

understood!

18:07

;;rated TheNewDeal

18:07

You have not yet rated user TheNewDeal

18:07

;;gettrust assbot TheNewDeal

18:07

Currently authenticated from hostmask TheNewDeal!ce2d690b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.206.45.105.11. Trust relationship from user assbot to user TheNewDeal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=TheNewDeal | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=TheNewDeal | Rated since: Sun Apr 13 12:56:09 2014

18:07

;;ratingsystem getratings TheNewDeal

18:07

Error: The "RatingSystem" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "getratings" in it. Try "list RatingSystem" to see the commands in the "RatingSystem" plugin.

18:07

you got one, what do you need em for ?

18:07

gitian << do not want.

18:07

;;ratingsystem getrating TheNewDeal

18:07

Currently authenticated from hostmask TheNewDeal!ce2d690b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.206.45.105.11 . User TheNewDeal, rated since Sun Apr 13 12:56:09 2014. Cumulative rating 4, from 3 total ratings. Received ratings: 3 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 10 positive, 0 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=TheNewDeal

18:07

TheNewDeal: Care to do a tour in the newsmines?

18:08

is that an invitation to write an article?

18:08

yes

18:08

TheNewDeal you know those are better ratings than i had for a long time :P

18:08

TheNewDeal: Find news submit draft

18:08

but I did purchase 2 posters from you. Want everyone to know I'm a bitcoin art connoisseur

18:08

!up reggiesells

18:09

gitian << first of all, want bsd - floppy disk image is what i'm playing with now - plus gcc, other deps - pre-baked. minimal size. second, what is this nonsense, it needs an internet connection?!?!

18:09

!up reggiesells

18:09

TheNewDeal, a man's gotta have criteria and you don't meet it, sorry

18:09

Oh mircea_popescu was slow this time, probably becaus more age

18:09

nothing personal

18:10

i give out ratings like candy, they'll be worthless

18:10

moar cognac.

18:10

you want everyone to know you're a connoisseur, post some pics of your poster to the thread ;D

18:10

*

BingoBoingo is really liking this switch to just ETOH+mixer

18:10

I don't see how it'd be worthless. In fact, if someone wanted to do business with me, they could literally ask you how it went

18:11

noob here, what the heck did you guys just do with those irc commands?

18:11

I'm distancing myself from the forum

18:11

too much wasted time

18:11

reggiesells: We gave you voice!

18:11

reggiesells, gribble manages our web of trust for us

18:11

thanks! @BingoBoingo, i almost lost my voice earlier

18:11

!up to heaven

18:11

http://i.imgur.com/6464LM2.png <<< check out this land where thermodynamics never happened.

18:11

oohh okay, i know about WoT.

18:11

TheNewDeal and i'd say "yeah, guy sent me btc, i sent him a poster" and they would not have any new information upon which to judge your character

18:12

thanks @nubbins'

18:12

reggiesells: Well it happens on a 30 minute timers. assbot rules over us all unequally

18:12

this is twittar now?

18:12

haha yes

18:12

now i feel less special lol

18:12

mkay, I'll tell them it's in the logs https://imgflip.com/i/9iu9z

18:12

Image tagged in lawgs - Imgflip

18:14

ok looks like author pointed it out: 'What's the economic reason of making software fake of well-known chip instead of making new one under your own name? This way they don't need to buy USB VID, sign drivers in Microsoft, no expenses on advertisement. This fake chip will be used right away in numerous mass-manufactured products.'

18:16

what's the cost of getting a driver signed and added to the store by redmond?

18:16

$$$$

18:17

a coupla k's it was

18:18

wait, well.

18:18

like $4k for vendor id and driver signing

18:18

with the bulk of that being for the VID

18:20

git clone http://therealbitcoin.org/test/bitcoin.git just trying out the setup... works, but with mysterious 403 thrown for good measure

18:20

*

mircea_popescu is not impressed by this spoon theory.

18:22

stopped reading the thing. too wordy, going nowhere.

18:22

basically it's a "hey, homeostatic systems have finite recourse"

18:22

mircea_popescu: it wasn't an intellectual breakthrough of any kind whatsoever - but is apparently 'canonical' among the community of the Officially Sad.

18:22

yeah bitch, they do. nevertheless, ever since i can recall my process was to stay up until i was sleepy and then sleep until i woke up.

18:23

and then eat when hungry and so on. caesar's method.

18:23

mircea_popescu: that only works if you're caesar - or at least, a free man.

18:23

yeah, well...

18:23

i am.

18:23

i was when i was 6, too.

18:24

i guess parents did not destroy your endocrine system by placating you with sweets

18:24

mircea_popescu: was 6 << easy then

18:25

jurov no, actually, i ate so much sugar it was scary.

18:26

one of the things in family folklore re my childhood is this one time when they got a large jar of homemade jam from up in the pantry where it was kept (why ?) and while discussing if to make it crepes or what

18:26

i ate it.

18:26

50lb kid, 1lb apricot jam, 50% sugar by weight.

18:27

in usa, food (at least if you like recycled food!) is free as air. sleep - is for royalty.

18:28

i dunno, i slept pretty well there. nice idea the boxspring

18:28

mircea_popescu: again, you. not us inmates.

18:28

but i am not royalty!

18:29

mircea_popescu: but - yer not an inmate.

18:29

anyway, there is some merit to this entire "sucks to be me" approach to obesity. while i have been catching on a little weight as an adult male, it's still mostly a case of, if i overeat my body just turns it to heat, usually on the spot.

18:30

"why am i so hot ? a wait, that was a third desert wasn't it. plus alcohol."

18:31

at some point we'll learn the secret of adjusting the thermostat, so to speak, of the body - and then people will blast themselves to hell with free radicals instead of dying of fat. choose ice vs. fire death, yes.

18:31

spontaneous combustion and so on

18:31

combustion << nah, just regular cellular aging.

18:31

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11165 @ 0.00073488 = 8.2049 BTC [-]

18:32

box spring is best spring

18:33

my mental concept of freedom is more or less synonymous with never setting an alarm clock again.

18:35

jurov 403 forbidden indeed!

18:35

but it doesn't say which url exactly

18:35

food? sex? slave can get these. sleep ad libitum - is the mark of the free man.

18:36

http://dpaste.com/10SKRWS

18:36

dpaste: 10SKRWS

18:36

as long as you're somewhere where the sun will wake you up

18:36

side note: I happen to be an inmate that sleeps when he pleases

18:36

jurov what do server logs say

18:36

americans are just lazy; you can still have freedom here

18:36

that hungarian "internet tax", 150 forints / gigabyte (or part thereof). that's .49 euro / gigabyte.

18:37

wow

18:37

doesn't say if that's for mobile only or fixed too.

18:37

speaking of inmates.

18:37

you - which you. herr buffett can sleep when he pleases, likewise, i hear.

18:37

it doesn't take that much wealth to self-sustain

18:38

^

18:38

again: laziness.

18:38

it's more a function of what you consume than what your income is

18:38

it doesn't take that much wealth to self-sustain << Mega-Lol!

18:38

segue to circle-jerk

18:39

;;google extreme early retirement

18:39

Early Retirement Extreme: — a combination of simple living ...: <http://earlyretirementextreme.com/>; Early Retirement Extreme Forums • Index page: <http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/>; What 30-Year-Old Retirees Can Teach The Rest Of Us - Forbes: <http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2014/03/21/what-30-year-old-retirees-can-teach-the-rest-of-us/>

18:39

I suppose all 320mil of us work at McDonalds leaving only to go through the drive-through at Burger King in your fantasy.

18:40

the only 'early retirement' available to everyone is the 'last bullet retirement fund.'

18:40

asciilifeform: you said you were russian, right?

18:40

speaking of countries filled with useless people

18:40

undata: usa 1992-present

18:41

;;google freedom 35

18:41

freedom 35: <http://www.freedomthirtyfiveblog.com/>; Freedom 35 | Facebook: <https://www.facebook.com/Freedom35Clothing>; Is Freedom 35 possible? - Retire Happy: <http://retirehappy.ca/is-freedom-35-possible/>

18:41

asciilifeform: I share the distaste for merkuh, but... broad brush.

18:41

1992, the year punk broke

18:41

asciilifeform came to see a sonic youth show and never left

18:41

undata: my criticism here is not usa-specific. applies to all industrial nations.

18:42

then granted

18:42

"broad brush" "no broader brush" "oh okay"

18:42

undata: except that in usa and its colonies, the slaves derp on about being some kind of 'free' despite not even being permitted to sleep.

18:42

bounce: as long as we're all covered in shit.

18:43

some socialist logic for you

18:43

you pinko commie socialist, you

18:43

ha beat you

18:43

<asciilifeform> my mental concept of freedom is more or less synonymous with never setting an alarm clock again. << ha! not even for say, a comet ?

18:43

yeah yeah you're first, you win

18:44

bounce: trying to balance out the socialism, ok?

18:44

ok alarm clock, but only if i want. for comet. that's it.

18:44

<bounce> that hungarian "internet tax", 150 forints / gigabyte (or part thereof). that's .49 euro / gigabyte. <<< it's al ulzfest. the gb costs about 1 cent or so atm.

18:44

<asciilifeform> you - which you. herr buffett can sleep when he pleases, likewise, i hear. << not so. not when the dow is ding ding dinging downwards.

18:44

depends on where you get it. mobile or fixed or wholesale

18:45

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00073488 = 18.078 BTC [-]

18:45

well in the same sense brent is 100 bux a barrel

18:46

sure, "depoends where you get it".

18:46

<nubbins`> asciilifeform came to see a sonic youth show and never left << lol too funnay.

18:46

i'll feel sorry for herr b when he has to live in a rented hovel and wake to an alarm bell. and follow orders.

18:46

*

BingoBoingo wishes for gas station gift card deniminated in gallons of gas rather than dollars of gas.

18:47

now that's a good one

18:47

I'd simply hodl it and use the appreciation to get the liquor

18:48

*

bounce didn't catch where they were levying that tax, or what they were imagining the prices currently paid to be

18:48

came to see a sonic << if only. brought as a boy and ended up with no other citizenship just like parents (no automagic su->ru citizenship for folks who packed up prior to '94, if i recall)

18:49

BingoBoingo: this exists. http://www.mygallons.com/

18:49

MyGallons.com. Tomorrow’s gas. Today’s prices.

18:50

<+mircea_popescu> <asciilifeform> my mental concept of freedom is more or less synonymous with never setting an alarm clock again. << ha! not even for say, a comet ? <<< i'm down to one alarm a week

18:51

amazing the effect this has on one's attitude and outlook

18:51

AMAZING COMPANY!

18:52

Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ Odds: 34(Y):66(N) by coin, 38(Y):62(N) by weight. Total bet: 27.73541987 BTC. Current weight: 43,652.

18:52

http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=bitcoin

18:52

CVE -Search Results

18:53

asciilifeform but you were born in odessa ? then you do have ru citizenship no ?

18:53

Everyone look and see if you can spot the new design++ http://qntra.net/

18:53

Qntra.net | Bitcoin News, Views & Commentary

18:54

mike_c: Seems shady, 404 on the "how this works" page

18:54

yeah, i ran into it a couple years ago. seems to have lost steam with falling gas prices (shocking).

18:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00073765 = 4.6103 BTC [+] {2}

18:55

incidentally, this: http://imgur.com/a/8f0ge is the man who killed the armed gunman at the canadian parliament today

18:55

imgur: the simple image sharer

18:56

I'd more prefer a solution offered by a conveniece store chain I despise.

18:56

and yes he wears that sword every day

18:56

nubbins`: Did he kill him with the mace?

18:58

who killed the unarmed gunman ?

18:59

mircea_popescu: Looks like the Seargent at Arms

18:59

From nubbins` pic

18:59

ahahahaha fucked him with the mace of office ?

18:59

I hope

19:01

BingoBoingo indeed the sgt at arms

19:01

apparently emptied his weapon, went back to his office to grab more bullets

19:01

;0

19:01

*

BingoBoingo knew Model UN would be useful for something

19:01

heh

19:01

i was ethiopia

19:02

I chaired the Science and Technology committee.

19:02

Was a $1000 a year discount on tuition

19:03

"The engineNextBytes function in classlib/modules/security/src/main/java/common/org/apache/harmony/security/provider/crypto/SHA1PRNG_SecureRandomImpl.java in the SecureRandom implementation in Apache Harmony through 6.0M3, as used in the Java Cryptography Architecture (JCA) in Android before 4.4 and other products, when no seed is provided by the user, uses an incorrect offset value, which makes it easier for attackers

19:03

to defeat cryptographic protection mechanisms by leveraging the resulting PRNG predictability, as exploited in the wild against Bitcoin wallet applications in August 2013."

19:03

quite. mp still recalls the profusely apologetic "we fucked up the init and consequently ppl got pwned" stuff coming out of the chief scientists

19:04

"The HTTPAuthorized function in bitcoinrpc.cpp in bitcoind 0.8.1 provides information about authentication failure upon detecting the first incorrect byte of a password, which makes it easier for remote attackers to determine passwords via a timing side-channel attack."

19:04

easier ? lolk.

19:05

lel does it really?

19:05

"what's your password?" "P-A-S-S-Q.." "WRONG"

19:05

Real Journalism in two examples: http://deadspin.com/tim-lincecum-missed-the-world-series-intros-because-he-1649546885 http://deadspin.com/cops-substitute-teacher-gave-h-s-footballer-oral-sex-1649426335

19:05

Tim Lincecum Missed The World Series Intros Because He Was Barfing

19:05

Cops: Substitute Teacher Gave H.S. Footballer Oral Sex During Pep Rally

19:07

Also www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/haunted-house-assault-lawsuit-786543

19:07

which reminds me. there need to be automated regression tests.

19:08

time to chime in on the new bitcoin name:

19:08

asciilifeform:ditch the fractional versions. 1, 2, 3, infinity. natural numbers. << except we use.... roman numerals.

19:08

the substitute head seems a good idea.

19:08

i, ii, iii, vi, v, etc.

19:08

gross

19:08

bitcoin MCMXLVIII

19:09

So... anyone spot the new qntra design++ yet?

19:09

<nubbins`> bitcoin x << ah, this

19:09

gray background?

19:09

nubbins` jeez lowercase.

19:09

ben_vulpes 8)

19:09

jurov: Close, look higher

19:09

ben_vulpes rite.

19:10

the "menu"?

19:10

higher...

19:10

i'd guess the favicon even though it hasn't loaded for me yet

19:10

tits ?

19:10

eh qntra is down for me.

19:10

nubbins`: It is the favicon

19:10

i see no favicon

19:10

*

nubbins` claps

19:10

jurov: Using Firefox?

19:10

http://qntra.net/favicon.ico

19:11

y

19:11

http://qntra.net/favicon.ico << this thing ?

19:11

jurov: Won't show until you restart firefox

19:11

mircea_popescu: yes

19:11

what is it, like a coil of rope ?

19:12

mircea_popescu: It's Just a Q and an n

19:12

los_pantalones: just heard these guys closed 50mm << inching closer to that magic $bn

19:13

lol blockstream has "gregory maxwell" on its list of founders.

19:14

pete_dushenski: Do you know what the truly beautiful thing about softforks is?

19:14

jurov git works now. what version is this?

19:14

Maybe not beautiful, but sublime?

19:14

BingoBoingo that b-a is behind them?

19:14

nubbins` just a clone of github

19:14

ah kk

19:15

git does not like getting 403 instead of 404

19:15

pete_dushenski: No, that they prevent people using newer software from making or recognizing certain transactions.

19:15

nubbins` an idea: what about making the Q more like opinion bubble?

19:15

like speech in comics

19:16

nice idea

19:16

BingoBoingo heh.

19:16

qntra needs a bikshed.

19:16

and trollbox!!!1

19:16

pete_dushenski: That is the literal reading of the Thermos bitcoin wiki definition of softfork

19:17

jurov: But this is trollbox

19:17

so i'm guessing no spv will work on the bitcoin i ? so no more multibit?

19:17

pete_dushenski: Older version of Multibit don't need bloom filters...

19:17

Also as I said last night, running the occasional 0.8.x node is polite...

19:19

and i asked last night, what's so evil about 0.8/9?

19:19

BingoBoingo ok. so up to what version of multibit are we talking here?

19:19

*

pete_dushenski surfs multibit github

19:20

pete_dushenski: Well I use 0.5.11 because it is what still lets me use higher than pennies tx fees

19:21

jurov: I think the evil is simply the distance + proximity to Hearn

19:21

jurov: At least as far as concretes can be found

19:22

mircea_popescu: Qntra already has n=1 bikeshed http://qntra.net/2014/10/cryptocoinsnews-is-anything-but/#comment-120

19:22

CryptoCoinsNews Is Anything But | Qntra.net

19:22

seems rather superstitious to me... but yes, starting at 0.5 and adding new stuff only after review is a plan

19:23

Superstitious in itself is not ideal, but... Hearn did trigger a hardfork...

19:23

BingoBoingo ya i'm rocking 0.5.14

19:24

jurov http://i.imgur.com/8UeXsPU.png

19:24

;D

19:24

hue

19:25

jurov the major code reorg that caused a fork. factual.

19:25

nubbins`: The idea I floated last week was purple and orange, but cazalla reminded me colorblindness is a thing.

19:25

sure is

19:26

so, green on red?

19:26

iirc bdb caused a fork, no?

19:26

jurov no.

19:26

jurov: Leveldb caused fork nominally

19:26

leveldb / poorly understood / not tested new code caused a fork

19:26

supposedly this was accidental. i never bought it.

19:27

nubbins`: Honestly, prolly best to remain greyscal friendly

19:27

leveldb in and of itself is whatever, maybe not the first choice for a db. leveldb as implemented by hearn was an attack on bitcoin.

19:27

the fact that we survived does not mean they didn't try.

19:27

^

19:28

Leveldb google turd does actually seem to be higher performance than the BDB oracle turd, but... yes consequences.

19:29

;;bc,stats

19:29

19:29

okay i see, there's lot of new code not properly reviewed

19:29

BingoBoingo MultiBit Version 0.5.11 Changes + Implemented issue 96 - Sign and Verify message. << that's it!

19:30

pete_dushenski: And after that I wanted for nothing more from an SPV client

19:30

Just to verify messages

19:31

!up xinxi

19:31

%d

19:31

atcbot

[ATC Diff] Current Diff: 469547.73 Est. Next Diff: 634748.22 in 1303 blocks (#48384) Est. % Change: 35.18

19:31

%p

19:31

atcbot

>> No data returned from CoinMiner.net << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 1502.67 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.38 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 0.00 TH/s

19:32

BingoBoingo the only interesting one you're missing out on is "#181. Improved build to check dependencies using Gary's dependency checker." lol

19:33

pete_dushenski: It's a java turd. I holds keys with decreasing amounts of funds and handles a few adresses funds might still come to.

19:34

was someone hosting some git repos?

19:34

It's more private than using electrum on a public server, but far from using an actual client

19:34

;;bc,stats

19:34

19:35

BingoBoingo ya i don't mind it at all :)

19:35

http://www.nhplace.com/kent/index.html << check out kent pitman allll over salon.com with the "global warming" thingee

19:35

Kent Pitman's Home Page

19:35

this is so lulzy.

19:35

pete_dushenski: Sort of thing you might use on a netbook with just enough BTC to pay your own ransom

19:35

mircea_popescu did you see piketty's letter about gw?

19:35

prolly not ?

19:36

another interesting task: figure out what the db really needs to be doing then find well-tested code that can do it

19:36

https://twitter.com/LeoHickman/status/524843439331246081

19:36

I was wondering when the rockstar economist Thomas Piketty would enter the climate debate... http://t.co/V2aOWzwWPQ http://t.co/vpt4SBE2w9

19:36

^first link is for ft, second to photograb

19:37

http://i.imgur.com/TGgEW94.png

19:37

ben_vulpes therealbitcoin.org

19:37

ah, that guy. meh, whatever.

19:37

http://therealbitcoin.org/test/bitcoin.git

19:37

*

mircea_popescu couldn't give less of a shit about whatever "star" the ustardians have produced this week.

19:38

i might review what this guy has to say sometime in 21xx, maybe.

19:38

probably not.

19:38

BingoBoingo paying your own ransom?

19:38

mircea_popescu i'd be highly surprised.

19:39

pete_dushenski: Well, if you can.

19:39

Has wallet encryption. You can "given them your last penny" to the extent they can see it...

19:40

Paying one's own ransom as a protocol probably won't be perfected though until assbot's level 1 consists entirely of nuclear powers.

19:41

jurov: wtf is "individual terrorist undertaking"? << basically, what you're doing here.

19:42

BingoBoingo a yes, the $900k coin!

19:43

"Data Center that can't be disconnected" from a safe range

19:43

chetty incidentally, the french are also building their own gulag, huh

19:43

After that we just need a few super mutants and then New Reno

19:43

bounce: announce that loud and clear and everybody knows what the score is. "if you want to go there, you're dead to us." << it won't work.

19:43

Nah, they are just aping the us like the monkeys those frogs really are

19:44

france is dead, notjust ot them, to everyone.

19:44

bounce: I don't care if maladjusted angry youths want to run away and make trouble in a war zone. I do care if they come back, recruit some more kids (to do the same), cause trouble, shoot some jews, what have you. << how else do you expect the shithole to be fixed ?

19:46

"Three Colorado high school students may have been playing hooky so they could run away and join ISIS apparently seduced by their twisted campaign of terror and hatred. The girls, ages 15, 16 and 17, never showed up to their Denver-area school on Friday because they were en route to Turkey via Germany," <<< much better chicks than any "feminist" or w/e.

19:46

mircea_popescu: White kids from ladue studying with Black kids from Ferguson and North City?

19:46

these are the generation leaders.

19:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11336 @ 0.00073881 = 8.3752 BTC [+] {2}

19:47

Oh invoking ISIS raises MPOE?

19:47

lol

19:48

!up AdamIRAway

19:48

apparently you can void passports for truancy now, in the bestest america.

19:48

you can void life without due process; what's a passport?

19:49

You can apparently void passports for angry county courts in Usia

19:49

undata the same obnoxious farts that create this "passport" that means no rights are also wondering why even a teenager if she has any sense wants to bomb them off the planet.

19:50

year, really, i wonder why the fuck is it that the best kids that the us can produce want to go help isis burn the whole world.

19:50

it certainly couldn't be because the world sucks, right ?

19:50

mircea_popescu: that's that suicidal streak I was talking about

19:51

US culture is as ready to kill itself as the rest of the world is to help it do so.

19:52

othernubs`: i thought medium was the sort of site where literally anyone can publish? <<< medium is, essentially, the sort of venue created to give the impression of a #b-a to the 99% idiots who can't tell the difference.

19:52

so as to create the illusion that there's no actual support for simple stuff like "either you renounce ALL your laws or we burn you to the ground."

19:53

i forget what this is called in us politics, but o yeah, "splitting the vote"

19:53

mircea_popescu: but you were born in odessa ? then you do have ru citizenship no? << lol! the whole city would've emptied in '92 or even earlier, if this were so.

19:54

but... wait dude.

19:54

you were born there. what more ?

19:54

mircea_popescu "either you renounce ALL your laws or we burn you to the ground." << now here's a radical concept. probably the same one that was invoked at parliament hill today

19:55

mircea_popescu: odessa changed country meanwhile

19:55

i'm off to watch grown ass men with skates chase a black disk around a frozen pond. enjoy your eve b-a!

19:56

*

BingoBoingo impressed that Argentine citizenship merely requires two years residence and an income, true land of the free

19:56

;;later tell pete_dushenski I think the game was postponed

19:56

The operation succeeded.

19:56

!s asciilifeform passport

19:56

35 results for 'asciilifeform passport' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+passport

19:56

!s asciilifeform russian passport

19:56

5 results for 'asciilifeform russian passport' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+russian+passport

19:57

and thats how doxing is done

19:57

jurov oh i see

19:57

!dox asciilifeform

19:58

!s asciilifeform russian passport

19:59

mircea_popescu: you were born there. what more << ussr kaput

20:00

so ? still automatic citizenship!11

20:00

mircea_popescu: naive idea. they unplugged this, to avoid ru proper being swamped with the entire contents of kazahstan, ua, baltics, all the provinces

20:00

mod6: me too, that threw me off. but maybe i did something silly with the install by creating a root account? i'm not super clued on deb... but it asked me to make a root account first, then a user account. so that was kinda bizzare to me. << no that's how debian did it for what, 10, 15 years ?

20:01

it was still swamped, against rules, and the people who did the swamping accounted for a large fraction of the bums which appeared during collapse

20:02

at any rate, even if herr putin mailed me a ru passport as perverse birthday present, fat lot of good that would do. need a lot more than a passport to leave the 'big zone.'

20:02

only hungary does not need to fear such swamping can do "if you had ancestors in Big Hungary 100yr ago, here's your passport"

20:02

ireland, i think, too

20:03

*Great Hungary to label the delusion properly

20:03

finally done with logs o.O

20:03

mircea_popescu: congrats

20:03

jurov jews are similar. romania too.

20:03

pretty much everyone, really. germany definitely, if you were born there.

20:04

us citizens on army bases routinely get dual citizenship kids if they become pregnant and deliver

20:04

i've been informed that the usual excursions where people take pregnant women to usa, have reversed.

20:05

or maybe it was just orlov.

20:05

canada will readmit children of a canadian citizen

20:05

sadly I'm two steps removed

20:05

i think the bar for thai citizenship is having sex with a trannie

20:06

at any rate, no one is stranded in usa solely because of passports.

20:06

<mircea_popescu> mod6: me too, that threw me off. but maybe i did something silly with the install by creating a root account? i'm not super clued on deb... but it asked me to make a root account first, then a user account. so that was kinda bizzare to me. << no that's how debian did it for what, 10, 15 years ? << I thought it was just Ubuntu that only made a user account they'd turn into a super sudoer

20:06

one can buy passport

20:06

just like one can buy freedom

20:06

mircea_popescu: haaaa

20:08

there must be some statistic how price of uprooting increases with age

20:09

hope bitcoin will grow faster

20:09

how does it increase with age?

20:10

don't buy a bunch of garbage if you're headed out.

20:10

*

asciilifeform must have missed something

20:11

at 20 it's pretty much 0

20:11

undata: garbage can be packed into crates and shipped

20:11

then it goes up

20:11

undata: if one must have it

20:11

asciilifeform: yep, or that.

20:12

jurov: I would say maybe leaving behind business contacts has a cost, but the internet solves that.

20:12

and bitcoin solves getting paid by them

20:12

Buy truck, drive to panama, 4 digit number to move truck around the Darien last time I priced it.

20:12

i guess there's the elementary fact that a 70 y.o. head of a firm cannot turn into a 20. y.o. apprentice again

20:12

rapeghost =?= rg

20:12

TheNewDeal: Yes

20:12

TheNewDeal yes ====

20:12

undata: the internet solves that << if only.

20:13

depends on what kind of business then

20:13

finally serving my sentence

20:13

TheNewDeal: Mine any news yet?

20:13

let me run one by you

20:17

TheNewDeal: Go

20:18

gotta keep it suuuper seektret

20:18

lol

20:21

git clone http://therealbitcoin.org/test/bitcoin.git <<<< wtf nonsense is this, that's 2014 bitcoind in there.

20:21

asciilifeform: do you know who maintains that site?

20:21

jurov?

20:24

at any rate, imho git is entirely the wrong pill here.

20:24

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-10-2014#888734

20:24

Logged on 22-10-2014 20:33:59; asciilifeform: i suggest going with whoever had the mailing list idea. emphasize the 'we sign things and so mechanism doesn't matter' aspect.

20:24

static www hosting latest stable result of composition of gpg-signed patches from mailing list - yes, more yoga, but ultimately the Right Thing.

20:25

yes, i just wanted to test, as it says

20:25

git etc. is very tempting, sweet, yes

20:25

but wrong for this occasion.

20:26

CVS ???

20:26

forsaking version control systems entirely!

20:26

the only way to emphasize the gravity of submitting a change to bitcoind.

20:27

um

20:27

that could apply once we're close to the ideal

20:27

^

20:27

nope.

20:27

or are we already?

20:27

it's the only way to actually get somewhere with the old tub we have.

20:28

so you say what will be hosted - only list of patches and a script

20:29

the somewhere, incidentally, is a stable satoshi-based gizmo worth using as a base for rewrite (idk about other folks, i shall rewrite for my own pleasure if no one wants, once finished with current affairs) - and perhaps worth printing!

20:29

that will verify and apply them?

20:29

suggested script.

20:29

only really need stock gpg to verify.

20:29

and pubkeys naturally

20:30

jurov: also host a copy of the present state of the mailing list, perhaps

20:30

static html.

20:31

yes

20:31

since, at least in the mechanism i suggested, no message shall be ever published that is not signed, any reader can verify that the mailing list is authentic.

20:32

<jurov> so you say what will be hosted - only list of patches and a script << I actually imagined set of books for the core an annumal supplement book of refinemnts

20:32

with a patch to mailman?

20:33

patch to mailman << why ?

20:33

to reject unsigned msgs

20:33

aha

20:33

yes, that's the only work-like part of this proposal, yes

20:34

incidentally, anyone who wants to mirror the proposed mailing list, will be able to do so at his pleasure.

20:34

instant anti-ddos pill

20:34

asciilifeform: DO you want me to rip my openbsd cd's and upload them somewhere?

20:34

BingoBoingo: what vintage?

20:34

asciilifeform: I may be able to fulfill your order with nubbins` help

20:35

It would be leatherbound and you can also engrave

20:35

thestringpuller: afaik it has not yet been decided what ought to be between the pages...

20:35

a writer buddy of mine does bookbinding of journals as one of his fanatical things

20:35

i've bound an odd book here & there.

20:35

asciilifeform: 5.5

20:36

so once you figure that out, nubbins can do a good printing job

20:36

it's good exercise for the fingers

20:36

and then you can send it here to have it bound

20:36

and an excuse to own a small hammer

20:36

5.5 is almost new

20:36

asciilifeform: 5.5 is the first version after I cared to get the physical CD's

20:36

5.6 comes out next month

20:36

*

danielpbarron got 2 copies of 5.5 from 2 different sources

20:37

*

asciilifeform is presently engaged in trying to collect the smallest (bitwise) possible bsd+gcc+etc combo that will build bitcoind 0.5-0.6

20:37

cross-compilation for linux/x86

20:37

danielpbarron

and by copies i mean cd sets

20:38

i'll look into the mailman

20:38

my present emulation, incidentally, is not to have network access

20:38

controlled through (emulated) serial tty.

20:38

and this, imho, is proper.

20:40

nice

20:42

*

BingoBoingo doesn't know if OpenBSD plus userland can be stripped to 1 FDD...

20:42

asciilifeform: bitcoind begs to be split into at least 3 programs

20:42

don't think so.

20:42

there's picobsd or nanobsd or whatwasit

20:43

for the one floppy trick you'd probably need qnx or so, but not sure if bitcoind would fit with that, even after you kicked out photon and the browser

20:43

bounce: Many of those abandoned, poor rng and gcc as FreeBSD derivatives

20:43

decimation: which three are you proposing?

20:44

<bounce> for the one floppy trick you'd probably need qnx or so, but not sure if bitcoind would fit with that, even after you kicked out photon and the browser << QNX that Blackberry thing?

20:44

qnx was a thing way before blackberry existed

20:44

bounce: I imagine BitcoinNetwork, BitcoinBlockhandler, BitcoinWallet

20:45

they did a one floppy demo once (twice, there's the xmas edition) that let you boot a full graphical desktop plus browser

20:45

<bounce> qnx was a thing way before blackberry existed << Indeed, but way for a decent RTOS to ruin the last Mobile OS

20:45

oh c'mon with the quoting

20:47

What there's a temporary Vag shortage so queefing is out of the question

20:47

well yeah I'm not too happy bb bought it up, no matter how good it'd be for them. qnx was a bit floundering though, that with everyone running off to leen0x and no real hardware incentive for what makes qnx special. just throw more hardware at the problem and it's sorted. (the beancounters think)

20:48

1.) blockchain gather/relay 2.) transaction accumulate/relay 3.) blockchain database 4.) own transaction receive/generate 5.) wallet crypto

20:48

then again, bb is floundering too. won't be the first time some company buys up something good for a bout of fleeing forward, goes down anyway and takes the good with it

20:49

bounce: Well worse is when the company buys a floundering product and hides it to success like Intel did with DEC ALpha

20:50

decimation: bitcoind begs to be split into at least 3 programs << of which only 1 is necessary !

20:50

bounce: floppy << not for the whole orchestra, no. gcc alone, think! but to get minimal skeletal userland.

20:51

switch to a smaller cc first? :-p

20:51

fabrice bellard's tinycc would be neat, but no cpp.

20:51

and satoshi crapped out cpp and used cpp-dependant dependencies.

20:51

Boost is a bitch

20:51

if someone wants to try building a cpp preprocessor using tinycc - be the hero, yes.

20:51

BingoBoingo: bb10 is not that bad, come on

20:52

boost is a bit ludicrous, even for the c++ course

20:52

<jurov> there must be some statistic how price of uprooting increases with age >> it does ? why would it ?

20:52

joecool: BB9 was perfect for what a person could expect out of a mobile turd os though

20:52

^ i did point out.

20:52

why'd you want to distribute the cc if you're going to distribute binaries?

20:52

bounce: So people can reproduce binaries

20:52

bounce: we were discussing an ideally-portable and self-contained distributable build system.

20:53

then split it in a full build-everything-from-source thing and a shrunk binary-only thing

20:53

that never pulls - anything - off the net on its own accord.

20:53

BingoBoingo: 9? did you mean 7?

20:53

shrunk binary-only thing is the binary.

20:53

full source is never going to work on a floppy, unless you can make xor compression work

20:53

any of the 29 (?) magickey holders can make you one & sign it

20:53

i explained the floppy

20:54

joecool: Whatever came before 10 and had wifi calling and the vibrating dildo function

20:54

even the source doesn't fit on floppy

20:54

probably flew me by, sorry

20:54

BingoBoingo: i dunno, 10 still has that too

20:55

<asciilifeform> instant anti-ddos pill << this is like saying that because anyone can wget -m qntra.net that's an anti ddos pill

20:55

joecool: But 10 doesn't work on preferred hardware.

20:55

mircea_popescu: it would be, if it were simple to mirror. and every post signed.

20:55

and presuming folks wanted to.

20:56

need both the will and the way.

20:57

i got a response from paydici if anyone was interested in yesterdays article http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitpay-to-assist-paydici-to-enable-bitcoin-based-recurring-billing/

20:57

BitPay To Assist Paydici To Enable Bitcoin Based Recurring Billing | Qntra.net

20:59

qnx << a very interesting item, and i loved playing with it when young, but it was inevitably bulldozed by the age of no-you-can't-make-money-selling-close-os-unless-you-re-apple-or-microshit

20:59

*closed

20:59

or, one might add, green hills corp.

20:59

whose owner invented 'linux fud' !

21:00

(their entire business model consists of 'we're rather like linux, but closed-source and nsa-approved, one hundred percent Aryan')

21:01

so qnx lacked military connections and dishonesty to succeed

21:01

actually it had connections, and, afaik, still runs on various 'if they told you they'd have to kill you' hardware - but not a going concern

21:03

at any rate:

21:03

there is nothing magic about qnx.

21:03

it is only less of a turd than other unix-likes because:

21:03

there's less of it.

21:03

(bitwise)

21:03

therefore closer to 'fits in head.'

21:04

about similar (in conceptual 'weight' rather than design!) to the unix described in 'lions book.'

21:04

http://qntra.net/2014/10/julian-assange-bitcoins-blockchain-most-intellectually-interesting-development-in-the-last-five-years/

21:04

Julian Assange: "Bitcoin's Blockchain Most Intellectually Interesting Development In The Last Five Years | Qntra.net

21:06

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17223184.000-did-bubonic-plague-really-cause-the-black-death.html << more interesting.

21:06

Did bubonic plague really cause the Black Death? - health - 24 November 2001 - New Scientist

21:07

Oh Today's World Series game is competitive

21:09

Fuck Hunter Pence looks like an extra from Breaking Bad, methed out motherfucker

21:09

'They are not the first to blame Ebola for an ancient plague. Scientists and classicists in San Diego reported in 1996 that the symptoms of the plague of Athens around 430 BC, described by Thucydides, are remarkably similar to Ebola, including a distinctive retching or hiccupping. Apart from that, many of the symptoms of that plague- and one in Constantinople in AD 540 -were similar to the Black Death.'

21:10

asciilifeform: Familiar with Hanta or any other new worls scourges?

21:10

'Eurasian hantaviruses can incubate for up to 42 days, but are not usually directly contagious between people.' (linked piece)

21:12

The New Reno region mircea_popescu wants to playground eventually as new world hantaviruses, keep your distance from the mice...

21:18

qnx was fun. did they ever have a multiprocessing variant?

21:19

heh http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.3.0SP3/neutrino/sys_arch/smp.html#SMP " Symmetric multiprocessing addresses the issue by running only one copy of Neutrino on all of the system's CPUs."

21:19

QNX Developer Support

21:19

decimation: BB10? Think it was bigkernellock like OpenBSD though

21:20

the c-machine is a mistake, but ganging multiple c-machines was an even bigger mistake

21:20

cazalla the sorrow in that "That's about as close as you can get with BitCoin." is delicious.

21:21

mircea_popescu: Cazalla as head of qntra was a gift that keeps giving. Dude knows tone.

21:22

<assbot> Julian Assange: "Bitcoin's Blockchain Most Intellectually Interesting Development In The Last Five Years | Qntra.net << for sure.

21:22

the implication being that assange has accomplished little with his derpcapade

21:23

comparatively less does not mean little.

21:23

it just means everyone else is drowning in their own shit

21:24

mircea_popescu, the reminder emails will probably get bitpay flagged for spam too

21:24

nah, they probably paid the payola

21:25

(the way "spam" works is you pay yahoo 100 bux or w/e, never get fglagged. dun recall right off what google is)

21:25

assange and his crew struck me as a naive bunch whose position is "we want a loving mommy state"

21:26

decimation, he is quite soft when it comes to shit like aboriginals

21:26

cazalla: interesting. what does that mean exactly? more welfare?

21:27

more everything at cost to the tax payer

21:27

plus apologizing for forcing their children to go to school and beating them until they learned?

21:27

lol

21:27

you know if you dig deep enough everyone's going to have a bunch of idiotic notions.

21:28

best take people at their peak

21:28

mircea_popescu: All officers and directors voluntarily agreed to the Company's redemption of an aggregate of 12,750,000 shares of common stock for an aggregate payment of $2,491. In doing so, the Company will have further flexibility in continuing to strengthen its balance sheet and ultimately add shareholder value. << could you help me decipher what is going on here accounting wise?

21:29

they bought back their own stock ?

21:29

mircea_popescu> best take people at their peak << Great value of a WoT system as here has is you can know what their bottom is

21:29

mircea_popescu: that's what I thought but based on these numbers...($2491 for ~13mn shares doesn't add up to the published market value as it looks like the ask value is ~ 8 cents a share)

21:30

at any rate, that's what it should mean, regardless what they actuall did.

21:30

decimation, that's already been done and now they want compensation, the abos want to live off the land but government is determined to stop them no matter how much it costs

21:30

;;calc 2,491 / 12,750,000

21:30

Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.

21:30

;;calc 2491 / 12750000

21:30

0.00019537254902

21:30

^- see?

21:30

http://investors.btcs.com/ << bottom of page has stock price

21:30

does it say who it redeemed from ?

21:30

nope

21:30

just "it was redeemed"

21:31

cazalla: that's pretty much how it works in the us and canada too

21:31

yeah well, basically, this is a disguised gift of stock from directors / interested parties to company

21:31

designed to increase per share value.

21:31

borderline fraudulent.

21:31

okay that's what BingoBoingo and I thought. thanks for clarifying.

21:31

decimation, they're not all bad, i had a good abo mate through school but once they hit 13, they just want to go lighting fires and breaking into corner shops etc etc sniffing a bit of 98 octane as well

21:32

they huff petrol? that's crazy

21:32

this idea that what people want matters as a universal...

21:32

who the fuck came up with this dumb shit.

21:32

Fuck this World Series

21:33

yeah, they lock the bowser at some petrol stations because they come in with a jerry can, fill up and leave without paying

21:33

I have a friend who works in a hospital indian health service (branch of usg). she says the majority of us indians are drunks

21:33

decimation so are the majority of irishmen

21:34

ironically the irish got their own 'independence'

21:34

basically, if ever confronted with violent aboriginal in australia, pop ya petrol tank cap and tell him "good sniff bro"

21:34

lol

21:35

*

mircea_popescu kinda likes the smell of gasoline

21:35

I feel gypped, the Kaufman stadium fountains appear to be off.

21:36

This is nothing like Ken Griffey Jr presents Baseball

21:37

as promised i have setup a mirror for ze logs - http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com - hosting for the mirror gratuitously provided by mircea_popescu

21:37

#bitcoin-assets log - mirror 1

21:37

gratuitously means pointlessly yo!

21:38

take it up with mp.

21:38

mircea_popescu, here ya go, much safer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal_%28fuel%29

21:38

Opal (fuel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

21:38

Opal is a variety of low-aromatic << that'd be a problem

21:39

lol they used leaded gas before that?

21:39

that's crazy

21:39

Who didn't use leaded gas?

21:39

i think that was phased out mid 90s decimation

21:40

even in the us that was gone by the 70's I think

21:40

For the hell of it I may or may not have driven a tank of leaded gas winter of 2006...

21:40

I guess the ban didn't go into full effect in the us until 96

21:40

actually, i just checked, phase out began 2000 and ended 2002.. good sniff that

21:40

people bitch because aviation gas in the us still has lead

21:41

decimation: Sh... let me kill a few more cat converters first

21:42

<cazalla> i think that was phased out mid 90s decimation < not in planes

21:42

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas#100LL_.28blue.29

21:42

Avgas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

21:42

^

21:42

"It contains about one-half the TEL allowed in 100/130 (green), though the amount is about 4 times what was in pre-1975 leaded automotive grade gasoline."

21:42

so, if you live near an airport with small planes, you are being showered with organic lead

21:42

best tomatoes!

21:43

joecool, i pray our aboriginals don't find this out or they might introduce TSA here

21:44

https://twitter.com/jeffmason1/status/525066962121261057

21:44

Video shows a man got onto White House grounds, was surrounded by Secret Service agents. Man literally punched a dog that ran at him.

21:45

<mircea_popescu> best tomatoes! << We still have tomatoes ripening...

21:46

Anyone attempted to sell a call option on BTC for a cash trade. If so, how was it received by the other party?

21:47

cazalla: Our plants started ripening in late july and we still have new tomatos...

21:48

would be nice to have home grown ones in the winter

21:49

july being middle of winter here

21:49

July's normally peak summer here, but... we never get consistent weather

21:51

cazalla: july being middle of winter here << the joys of the southern hemisphere

21:53

Pierre_Rochard

I’m looking forward to the new foundation & its ‘fork’

21:53

me too!

21:58

it turns out that the pilot of the 'zombine plane' that flew over cuba and crashed had asked the usg air controller for a lower altitude twice http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/doomed-tbm-900-pilot-twice-asked-lower-altitude

21:58

403 Forbidden

21:58

he was flying the first production model of the tbm-900, a single-engine turboprop plane

22:01

Fuck this might be the most boring worls series

22:02

why do they call it the world series if all the teams are American

22:02

cazalla: Well, a lot of players are latin american

22:02

!up Evolyn

22:03

The way the World Baseball classic works is usually the Whole United States gets beat by a small part of the US

22:05

cazalla: No one questions that the Rabbitohs won the World Rugby championship...

22:07

It is just hard thought to explain how perfect Kaufman is as a baseball stadium

22:07

rugby? it's league! that would be like me saying softball is the same as baseball

22:08

cazalla: I thought league was realest rugby???

22:08

nfi, i have not watched/played since i was a kid

22:08

And Union was the deviant sport

22:08

;;google why do they call it the world series if all the teams are American

22:08

Derek Jeter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Jeter>; World Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series>; Boston Red Sox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox>

22:09

well there are a few canadian teams

22:09

nubbins`: Fuck you, Canada still has a team.

22:09

why do they call it the world wide web if it does not actually have width

22:09

BingoBoingo we used to have two!

22:09

nor is really a web

22:09

nubbins`: Blame Obbumer stealing a team for DC

22:10

canada counts as a country sorta

22:10

;;google nepal bitcoind doesn't sync

22:10

My bitcoin-qt client connection status and uptime at http://blockchain ...: <http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7780/my-bitcoin-qt-client-connection-status-and-uptime-at-http-blockchain-info-conn>; Google Trends: <http://www.google.com/trends/explore>; Bitcoin Wallet - Android Apps on Google Play: (1 more message)

22:11

*

BingoBoingo actually would enjoy seeing Giancarlo Stanton playing Cricket

22:11

!up bitspill_

22:11

!up bitstein

22:12

answer to someones question earlier http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html

22:12

Bitcoin Peer to Peer Network Status

22:13

so no one uses higher than 7?

22:14

well i can see how mp would argue that one as yes

22:14

xbtfoundation.org is open

22:15

ew

22:15

yeah xbt is gay but it can be used as a wedge

22:15

we are more official than you are!

22:15

ISO certified domainz

22:16

hehe

22:16

Baseball is the best, because why in the hell is Billy Butler an athlete???

22:16

i watched every single red sox game for a couple seasons when pedro was the shit, then never watched again

22:17

thickasthieves: All I ask for in life is to see Giancarlo Stanton with a better team. Any team oher than the Marlins will do.

22:17

all i ask for is Bo Jackson comeback

22:17

SO old nao

22:18

hehe

22:18

Bo Jackson makes MP feel young

22:18

i think i might be same age as mp

22:18

Oh, Royal are winning now.

22:18

That mean Lorde is happy.

22:19

so she can die now

22:19

happy, that is

22:19

This is actually the person Lorde wrote "Royals" about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PseNrUeSmXk

22:19

The George Brett Story - YouTube

22:20

Mr. Pooped his pants in a casino, George Brett.

22:20

i had a lot of his baseball cards once

22:20

!u[ cardigm

22:20

since he played with bo

22:20

right?

22:20

I still do somewhere, maybe

22:20

kako so most people are using 0.3.x?!

22:20

c'est impossible

22:21

i still have all my bo cards, my brother collected ken griffer

22:21

myea

22:21

griffey jr*

22:21

thickasthieves: Bo did have an especially dignified retirement

22:21

he did better value wise, but now its all worth nothing pretty much

22:21

https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/

22:21

Snapshot of reachable nodes in the Bitcoin network - Bitnodes

22:21

some other charts

22:21

with more modern version numbers

22:21

lol

22:22

such css!

22:22

the non-classical version strings are interesting

22:22

31. /BTCXchange.ro:0.9.99/ (1)

22:22

hehe

22:23

and what, for instances, is 'caesure:2014' ?

22:23

or 'midascoin' ?

22:23

versioning should start at 1000 and end at 0

22:23

!s kelvin versioning

22:23

3 results for 'kelvin versioning' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kelvin+versioning

22:24

heh!

22:24

asciilifeform https://github.com/samrushing/caesure

22:24

samrushing/caesure GitHub

22:24

Versioning should be remove code Major++, add bullshit minor++ so M.m like 968.2

22:25

so we agree to just not use versions

22:25

that caesure seems to be around since 2011

22:25

just timestamps

22:25

byte counts.

22:25

half-seriously,

22:26

version == log2(bytecount).

22:26

caesure << uses 'shrapnel', mega-libraryturd.

22:27

nfi what that is

22:27

never heard of it until now

22:27

and, unsurprisingly, openssl

22:27

so no win really.

22:28

o hey hetzner hosts 180 nodes lol

22:28

WILD PITCH, runners on 2nd and 3rd

22:28

Bottom of the 6th, two outs

22:29

and what is 'statoshi:0.9.99'...?

22:29

or 'toxi'

22:29

RBI DOUBLE, 5-2, Kansas city over San Francisco atm. 3.1 innings left

22:30

is there a chart of these sorted by hash/sec ?

22:30

(yes i get that the number is '0' for most of the above list)

22:31

;;ticker

22:31

Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 382.02, Best ask: 382.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 382.49, 24 hour volume: 8029.65324351, 24 hour low: 380.0, 24 hour high: 388.83, 24 hour vwap: 384.099411335

22:31

o hey our resident child rapist also keeps charts

22:31

http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/security.html?20121910

22:31

Home RUN, Royals now up 7-2 in the 6th, 3.1 innings left.

22:31

getting ready to move, just not sure which way

22:31

he's a child rapist now?

22:31

360 vuln nodes ? lol

22:31

Sorry, last two updates should read 3.2 innings left.

22:31

uncommonly useless chart

22:31

Oh wow.

22:31

KC is bringing the pain.

22:32

yeah well child rape is also useless, yet.

22:32

wait

22:32

those arent real time charts

22:32

asciilifeform: yeah that's the bottom line: what are the high-hash miners using?

22:32

:\

22:33

http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/

22:33

Index of /programs/bitcoin/files/charts

22:33

decimation: seems like a question that ought to be answerable, at least very approximately, without their cooperation

22:33

origin nodes of minted blocks?

22:33

one can fudge the version string in the proggy, yes, but if you're on the network, folks can presumably connect to your node and test behaviours

22:34

not sure if its enough to pinpoint version

22:34

pinpoint - no. approximately tell if they're running hearn turd - yes.

22:35

maybe

22:37

http://qntra.net/2014/10/breakout-gaming-fall-short-in-attempt-to-raise-10000-btc/

22:37

Breakout Gaming Fall Short In Attempt To Raise 10,000 BTC | Qntra.net

22:37

this is just like when worm in rounders is asked how short he is and he responds "all the way"

22:38

10,000 btc << building a planet ?

22:38

I dunno about Yall, but I am watching Silicon Valley getting fucked with a frozen turd wrought of their own ethical lapses.

22:38

?

22:39

asciilifeform: The San Francisco Giants getting fucked by a team with a fraction of their payroll.

22:40

Adlai

did my gif get through earlier? https://i.imgur.com/srO11QN.gif <-- this may be the moment when i finally realized the importance of natural selection

22:40

*

asciilifeform confesses that he doesn't see anything whatsoever that may happen in a gladiatorial arena as 'silicon valley fucked'

22:41

asciilifeform: Not Handegg so not really that gladatorial

22:41

arena in the sense of reasonably strong containment

22:42

what happens in - generally, stays in

22:42

asciilifeform: I can report here on it so copyrasta containment not that strong yet

22:42

stays in - in the sense that not once have i ever seen any reason to give a damn about it

22:43

Ah, that is a different dilema.

22:43

other than scientific curiosity, re: what fascinates various folks so much

22:43

Baseball fascinates me in how it seems to be the intersection of dice games and atheleticism

22:44

That's why I find it betable

22:45

Also odd things happen in baseball over time. In 2010 people would call prank if you said Tim Lincecum warming up in the bullpen, but it is happening.

22:46

*

asciilifeform had to look up 'bullpen'

22:47

Ah, I guess for context... back in 2010 Lincecum was called the "Freak" for seeming unnaturaly better than any other starting pitcher, but since then... He has more than regressed to mean...

22:48

Braves fans are like that with Craig Kimbrel

22:48

Mastery of Bullpen usage was how Larussa got the Cardinals two world series wins, but nao... Mathenaging...

22:49

thestringpuller: Kimbrel is probably Sirian.

22:49

^ unique among just about all subjects, this remains 'greek to me' regardless of what i read.

22:49

brain just won't digest.

22:50

i had the rules of, e.g., baseball, explained to me - on more than one occasion - and promptly forgot the next day.

22:50

asciilifeform: yeah I'm that way with handegg and soccer

22:50

Haha. BingoBoingo we should take asciilifeform to a baseball game.

22:50

asciilifeform: I'd suggest playing the part of a Nationals or Baltimore Orioles fan next year, but given the proximity to District 1, dunno how you feel about anal probing

22:50

Get him nice and drunk while heckling the pictures.

22:51

I understand the general concept, but there are many subtle rules and concepts

22:51

that's the catch really

22:51

a great many cultural in-jokes and tidbits that seem obvious to a 'native' but utterly opaque to others.

22:52

asciilifeform: By refering to Kimbrel as Sirian I mean as in from the Wasp, bowlegged with inhuman movements. Only way to describe the fucker.

22:52

this plus a chronic lack of my being able to muster giving a rat's arse

22:52

yes i get that part - the only thing

22:52

i meant, the game in general.

22:52

and american football.

22:52

Ah, well most 'Murican don't really get Baseball anymore unless their spanish is good.

22:53

American football is simpler though. DOn't break your spine before you sign an NFL contract is basically all of handegg

22:54

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTS-400 << interesting. turns out greenhills is not the only crown-approved turdphactory

22:54

XTS-400 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

22:55

does it meet 'common criteria'

22:55

apparently.

22:56

Of the two 'Murican sports, "Football"is probably the one with the simplest rules to grasp.

22:56

BingoBoingo: except for all the subtle rules about when/where tackling is legal

22:57

that turn out to be randomly enforced in practice

22:58

aha green hills is still the only 'eas6' (highest usg rank) os.

22:58

decimation: Sure, handegg regular gameplay changes every year nao and Baseball hasn't had a real change since the mound was lowered because Bob Gibson

22:58

http://www.commoncriteriaportal.org/products

22:59

Certified Products : New CC Portal

22:59

eal4 is a joke

22:59

(what does this mean? largely, claiming to enforce the american scheme of 'security classifications')

22:59

and $maxint or so in lawyering

22:59

asciilifeform: yeah what it really means is that you sat through many gov't meetings

22:59

and had the pedigree

23:00

certified aryan!

23:00

and got a note from stalin, etc

23:04

I'm not sure how any c-machine can really be 'formally verified'

23:04

which is eal7

23:04

decimation: the whole concept of 'formally verified' is a scam.

23:05

in any and all cases.

23:05

As I understand, the 'common criteria' eal levels are going away, in favor of even less objective scam-criteria

23:05

regardless of what kind of machine, and in what galaxy.

23:05

so it is easier for notes from stalin to be issued

23:05

a physical machine is not a theorem.

23:06

for instance, if your logic was built with 74xx, how can you 'guarantee' fail-safe under all conditions?

23:06

you can't

23:06

the notes will remain extremely easy for some, entirely impossible for others - to get.

23:06

who the hell knows what molten silicon will do

23:06

just as intended.

23:06

yeah for instance if the chinese submitted an entry, no matter how open or impressive, it would never be adopted

23:06

no need for the 74xx to melt - enough to 'get lucky' and reach a metastable state in one or more switching elements

23:07

all bets are off then.

23:07

yep

23:08

one of the sad prices we paid when switched to digital computers is the inevitable forgetting that we are playing with physical machines, and not mathematical platonic forms.

23:08

decimation: Well, where does Vax still reign???

23:08

BingoBoingo: I'm sure there are still vaxes running somewhere

23:09

chinese << forget chinese. nothing i - a peasant - so much as breathed on - will ever be crowned 'eal'.

23:09

decimation: They run the nuclear arsenal

23:09

BingoBoingo: theo de raadt has a microvax somewhere in his cellar

23:09

BingoBoingo: why, want one ?

23:09

asciilifeform: yeah a few $mil will be 'required' one way or another

23:09

asciilifeform: I'll be looking to grow my farm once qntra takes off

23:10

First priorities include ECC x64 machine

23:10

BingoBoingo: afaik, the only remaining manufacturer of ecc-enabled amd (specifially) boards is 'tyan.'

23:11

Seems so, but I'll look a few years older and he same seems to hold

23:17

asciilifeform: I think supermicro makes them too

23:17

aside from that you are stuck with hp, dell, etc

23:17

amd dell?

23:17

yeah dell made amd servers for awhile

23:19

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-r715/pd

23:19

PowerEdge R715 Rack Server Details | Dell

23:23

http://conelrad.com/godfrey_2.html << entirely unrelated to anything. except perhaps the 'satoshi warning' feature of bitcoind.

23:23

CONELRAD: Atomic Culture | Updates on the Arthur Godfrey Ultimate PSA Search

23:23

xanthyos

danielpbarron is live right now on http://www.donkdown.com/live-radio/

23:23

DonkDown – Live Radio

23:28

1960 usg might have been able to regroup and have some semblance of authority in case of major disaster. 2014 usg has no chance

23:31

^- is this why they make so many disaster movies about the USG going underground during a disaster and trying to reclaim power?

23:34

thestringpuller: yeah such movies are probably less fantastic than usg's hidden 'plans'

23:36

1) hide underground 2) send the military into the cities 3) burn

23:36

what military?

23:37

if washington dc goes under, for instance, there is no us military

23:37

it disappears?

23:37

see: 1991

23:37

it has no head, and the various pieces will find themselves suddenly having bigger priorities

23:39

none of which will be keeping control of the continent?

23:40

who's control? I have no doubt that off-continent enemies will be taken seriously, but who's orders are they going to follow? Texas?

23:40

the military would still have a chain of command absent civilian authority

23:41

I don't think the head-body metaphor applies here

23:41

more like giant slave and ankle-chain

23:42

1.) "chain of command" orders military to 'crush' a city 2.) half the troops go awol, the other half are murdered by partisans 3.) "chain of command" no longer in command

23:42

the US military is immensely capable of holding cities

23:42

"partisans" have no chance

23:42

decimation: is right tho

23:43

you guys are a bit wishful sometimes; I share the sentiment towards the us govt

23:43

but I highly doubt any of you are going to like what follows if it falls

23:44

definitely but without a function chain of command the army is going to fragment into multiple "militias" in a serious disaster

23:44

a highly armed, extremely disciplined military doesn't just vanish because the congressmen stop coming to work

23:44

I'm not interested in anarchy, but sometimes anarchy is interested in you...

23:45

maybe in Rome

23:45

things are much more organized now

23:45

we like to think so, but who is really pulling the strings?

23:45

I'll listen to the other view; go ahead

23:46

undata: It's almost like you've been following none of our hobby projects we joke about.

23:47

look, if you're going to present it as a given that the most effectively oppressive military complex on earth is about to disappear, you're going to have to justify that.

23:49

undata: think of it from the point of view of the lowly private. You are at Fort Hood, and wash dc is gone. Your commander has told you that the 'chain of command' has ordered you to 'take Dallas'.

23:49

there's no air support, because comms are down. The 'locals' mostly think that the state should decide how things are run, not some ex-bureaucrats.

23:50

things get ugly. a few bombs go off. You are ordered out of your apc into the city.

23:50

your friend is shot in the head, he calls for help, but the locals have already taken over the airport, no helicopters anywhere

23:50