#trilema | 2014-04-02

every other

01:59

8p

02:00

hey tg2 you see that?

02:00

*

random_cat isn't a huge fan of lucky lab's beers

02:00

that's a rating

02:00

ya well it ain't about the beer

02:01

random_cat: pm

02:02

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00093712 = 31.0655 BTC [-] {4}

02:08

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100026946/monks-recant-bundesbank-opens-the-door-to-qe-blitz/

02:08

Monks recant: Bundesbank opens the door to QE blitz – Telegraph Blogs

02:09

HAW

02:09

i love ambrose

02:11

funny how the telegraph line length clusters around 72

02:15

random_cat

i'd call it awesome

02:17

i think i'm going to rebel against my gui conditioning and agree with you

02:17

TAKE THAT DAD

02:20

holy fuck this irc client rules

02:21

embeds tweets and pastebins

02:21

and i just noticed it embedded a link from gist

02:21

code snippets o/

02:26

"In several cases my changes take the form of a Turing-complete program that dynamically modifies the upstream source code in several attempts until it passes tests. I’m not kidding."

02:30

(i think he's kidding)

02:33

id love to see code for that

02:34

Diablo-D3

hes not kidding

~ 19 minutes ~

02:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18044 @ 0.00093631 = 16.8948 BTC [-]

~ 16 minutes ~

03:09

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00093363 = 13.0241 BTC [-] {3}

~ 24 minutes ~

03:34

bitcoin-assets.com

03:34

lol fail

03:41

;;ticker --market all

03:41

Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 477.25, vol: 17444.61766036 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 479.435, vol: 13599.58296 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 477.1492, vol: 14700.48263507 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 488.01, vol: 43.6548417 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 464.734836, vol: 3681.68780000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 488.96, vol: 22.76701776 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 489.198088, vol: 104.27305101 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

~ 17 minutes ~

03:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29094 @ 0.00093362 = 27.1627 BTC [-]

04:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54179 @ 0.00093981 = 50.918 BTC [+] {3}

04:18

[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 24 @ 0.056 = 1.344 BTC [-]

04:18

[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 98 @ 0.0075 = 0.735 BTC [+]

~ 33 minutes ~

04:52

peterl

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319 danny speaks finally

04:52

[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

04:52

.d

04:52

5.007 billion | Next Diff in 626 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.0800% in 3d 16h 28m 16s

04:54

lol aweomsome now they are locking the thread

04:56

So... got scared, went fraud

04:57

... and neo is out of money and probably fucked

04:57

Good News For Bitcoin (TM)

04:57

and hes quitting

04:58

peterl

I just started a new thread for people to continue the discussion. I doubt, however, that he will answer in it.

04:58

The thing is he seems to describe it as neo's money

04:59

peterl

I wonder if the line between his money and NEO's money was not clear enough?

05:00

Seems like it as his solution to Neo's lack of money is trying to take his equity in no money for someone else's money to acquire his worthless equity

05:02

i knew there was something wrong when i seen pictures of their office

05:03

big watse of money

05:06

well I guess bitcoin is really going to take off in cyprus now

05:08

shotgun some neobee office shairs

05:08

chairs

05:08

they look mint

05:18

This is the problem that happens when Facebook is allowed to IPO and a shitty Facebook game is allow to IPO soon after

05:21

dotcom bubble 2.0

05:23

but yeh i hope MP books a flight to russia soon

05:23

he will be safe there

05:23

MP's probably safe most places in the world.

05:23

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.20

05:23

MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges

05:23

scary the amount of power usa still has :/

05:24

go to russia dood

05:29

why would anyone want to buy the equity of an insolvent company

05:30

he doesn't mention the actual debts of neo&bee

05:30

which I am sure are quite massive

05:30

someone should make a list of all the fails this year

05:30

were a white knight to save them, all the existing shareholders would get wiped out anyways

05:31

The thing read as though "I wanted to go insolvent on my schedule, but I deposited with people who went insolvent first"

05:31

the sky is falling, the sky is falling the sky is falling

05:32

i don't have any money in neo. its just annoying to see another implosion that makes bitcoin look stupid to the rest of the unenlightened population

05:32

Eh, it seems by his retelling he could only disappear a quarter of what inputs.io disappeared. Progress-ish

05:33

agreed, that and the derps inventing stuff about MP in trouble

05:33

cazalla

those commercials are prime candidates for new subtitles aka hitler finds out type style

05:33

lol

05:34

not enough actual drama, must invent some more !!!

05:34

Pirate disappeared a quarter million BTC, TradeFortress disappeared 4000, Danny disappeared 1200. Soon we will get down to a single BTC being a newsworthy heist

05:37

dont forget bitfunder/weex scam

05:38

http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/comments/2200w1/danny_has_broken_the_silence/cgi1862

05:39

VanCleef: Is that the thing neo bailed out for no damned reason?

05:40

cazalla

so lose 10% to cypriot banks, lose the remaining 90% to neo?

05:47

Well, just holding BTC oneself was an option

~ 42 minutes ~

06:30

hum looks like havelock is offline

~ 27 minutes ~

06:57

zacm

wonder what happened with bitfunder, still not been revealed

06:57

zacm

cazalla: ouch!!!

07:02

haha i got my hitler paintings today.

07:04

zacm: so this is disconcerting to see the lemmings on bitcointalk cheer on us gov action against mpex people. bitcoin community must be eagerly anticipating govcoin i guess << i wouldn't read too much into the derpage of a coupla tards tbh.

07:05

turbo_ac100 pretty cool!

07:06

Something I'd wanted to know for a long time; now I can produce this easily: http://pastebin.com/7QSb6ypA

07:06

Block 266381 was good for 110 trillion difficulty!

07:06

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1521 @ 0.00013758 = 0.2093 BTC [+] {3}

07:06

Also the genesis block was 2,536 times harder than necessary. Which is odd. It held the record for 1430 blocks.

07:06

tg2 the problem with your approach is that protocols are designed and implemented by they involved, not by the armchair generals. tis not up to you or whatever random derp on reddit to "draw up guidelines", there's no government of the people in bitcoin. there's government by bitcoin opf the people.

07:07

Neil pretty cool yeah, did you generate it ?

07:07

Yup

07:08

cool.

07:08

poor mike_c and his prime sarcasm falling on deaf ears :D

07:08

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3332 @ 0.00013799 = 0.4598 BTC [+] {4}

07:11

blurden who are you perhaps the more instructive question.

07:12

artifexd

;;later tell Mats_cd03 What irc client are you using?

07:12

The operation succeeded.

07:15

asciilifeform: it is always one thing to read a philosophical bit, and another to taste it on one's sorry skin << do tell ?

07:17

nubbins`: but i'm not about to buy a coin off some random noob with no trust ;p <<< ajaahaha the moment we've all been waioting for. nubsy baby, maybe buy it FOR ATC ?!?!?!?!

07:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00094379 = 11.0423 BTC [+]

07:18

Ken` actually they just might.

07:24

so did neobee finally issue that vaunted first quarterly statement that really shoulda been the third ?

07:25

VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year << not such a bad idea. http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/ only goes june 2011-dec 2012. there's all of 2013 to cover, plus a chunk of 2014

07:25

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18374 @ 0.00094596 = 17.3811 BTC [+] {3}

07:26

aand all caught up. that wasnt so very bad huh.

07:30

nice

07:30

must read

07:32

wasn't benkay doing it?

07:32

i only get till 28th of september 2012 mp

07:32

8th of december sorry

07:33

``Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility.'' -- this widely accepted in economists' circles?

07:34

bounce only state-sponsored circles.

07:34

it's kenseyanism

07:34

austrian school holds exactly the opposite to be true. back when the us-uk alliance consisted of reagan and thatcher, the exact opposite was widely held in... amusinglyt.... the same economist circles.

07:35

seems to me a bit of a mistaking the road for the horse

07:35

time to update it mp

07:35

kinda yeah.

07:36

might take a while heh

07:37

mircea_popescu: isn't it socialism and not keynesianism? afaik keynesianism is "the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility" but only when there are aggregate demand defficiencies

07:38

ima make a lil list of the last 2 years anyway

07:38

What do you do when you work at a scrapyard and someone brings in an unexploded WW2 bomb?

07:38

Bust out the plasma cutter and cut it open of course... http://news.yahoo.com/bangkok-scrap-workers-killed-opening-suspected-ww2-bomb-102333123--finance.html

07:38

win

07:38

how comes i have the impression there are only very few successful bitcoin businesses?

07:38

few? that's too many

07:38

wywialm i fail to distinguish socialism and keynesianism myself.

07:38

maybe a couple

07:39

seems a distinction without a difference.

07:39

> they used a blow torch to try to cut open the bomb

07:39

lol

07:39

yea, smart eh?

07:39

http://trilema.com/2014/hitler-mp/

07:39

Hitler MP pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

07:39

;;eauth mircea_popescu

07:39

Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452

07:40

;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:55114a79cafe0a548c8c138fea790f6468e25914906b2aa5e2198e6e

07:40

You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452

07:40

well, socialism sometimes vs socialism always is a difference even in principle and not only in quantity - the market is still the default in keynesianism

07:40

;;rate DrahogErusiel 1 Artwork delivered.

07:40

Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user DrahogErusiel has been recorded.

07:40

;;rate SaltySpitoon 1 Escrow agent

07:40

Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user SaltySpitoon has been recorded.

07:41

hehe

07:41

btw, someone with a forum account drop a line to salty / the artist

07:41

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/portraits-commissions-and-original-paintings-by-maureen-gubia.204435/page-2#post-4486969

07:41

portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk

07:41

or post in thread or something

07:41

wywialm arguably. just like rape always and rape sometimes are ostensibly a difference in principle and not only in quantity.

07:41

like if you keep a girl tied to a post in your basement and only rape her when she's not... willing, i guess you'd call it ?

07:42

turbo_ac100

Does google rank your site worse if I dont have the relevant TLD and do geotargeting only with webmaster tools?

07:42

turbo_ac100

*yours mine - SOME site.

07:43

turbo_ac100 i don't think it makes much difference.

07:43

turbo_ac100

grounded on what?

07:44

well, is .com the relevant tld for trilema ?

07:44

was .us/trilema/ relevant ?

07:44

i saw exactly 0 difference in switching.

07:45

mircea_popescu: great comparison - though, the keynesian would maintain that the girl's always willing, only sometimes too shy to ask

07:45

right right

07:45

we don't buy that in court, so why would we buy it otherwise.

07:45

i'm not selling keynesianism

07:46

merely the presence of "government contracts" in the us renders entire sectors state controlled/planned

07:46

and for that matter they are well aware of this, hence the entire "conquer education by federal grant" programme past 20 years

07:46

wywialm i know you aren't, but stating it for teh record.

07:48

you're very right on the govt contracts stuff, but i suppose the regulatory burden is much heavier for the economy than plain old fiscal intervention

07:49

the state has absolutely no business in economy at all.

07:49

this entire "oh but we know better" bs is simply mindboggling.

07:50

true as well

07:50

anyway, as technology frees more and more time, people can't resist the temptation to try and feel it with a delusion that they actually matter.

07:51

which is teh deep reason the western world slid into socialism past century or so.

07:51

s/try and feel it/try and fill it/

07:51

but still - i'd opt for a government scandinavian style that is just fiscally opressive but much less tries to mix with the rules

07:51

well, you know. there's things that look like economics but are more important in other respects, and so the state might well step in and run the show.

07:51

til neobee had IT'S OWN REDDIT ?! http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/

07:52

though clearly enough often enough the government has no clue either way and everyone suffers

07:52

this would be the first time reddit scammed teh btc public then ?

07:52

[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0564 = 0.1692 BTC [+]

07:52

wywialm i wouldn't.

07:52

bounce, any examples?

07:52

yeah, examples ?

07:53

say, public transport. first you end up with lots of PT companies doing their thing and a right jumble it is. then the state steps in and puts it all under one umbrella. N years later it gets a bug up the old bum about privatisation and you end up with lots of little companies again... and worse service to higher cost.

07:53

omfg, this is beyond cute. the derps on tardstalk actually tried to like... fud s.mpoe ?!

07:53

o god.

07:54

nubbins`s sides! etc!

07:55

[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.04349965 = 0.261 BTC [-] {4}

07:55

bounce that's actually a great example.

07:55

or public health. you could provide good basic service to the entire population at a reasonable price (hidden in the tax bill), but if it has to be "market driven" you're certainly not going to get that. and that when it's to everyone's benefit that the workforce is healthy.

07:55

public transportation is perhaps the best way to drive that entire argument.

07:56

i think SatoshiIsland needs some sort of governence but it should be like a company where you hire people for the positions via very complicated hard test, previous background and experiences and these positions should be interchangable every year and performance based

07:56

and interviews

07:56

bounce the only way i see this to be approachable is the medieval method (still used in romania for emergency medicine say) : you hire a boss. he does whatever he wants.

07:57

this is pretty much how the guilds ran things, back when european economy actually worked. it's how romania runs emergency medicine, thge guy's name is raed arafat.

07:58

(for the exotically curious : parliament passed a law, guy went on tv to say the law fucking sucks, president called in to say well why didn't you tell me! let's iron it out!". it was a sight, the whole thing. )

07:58

bounce: i can't see any economic justification for things turning that way. The evolution of PT in Poland is a direct proof to the contrary - a few efficient contractors in the bigger cities and between them, successfully coping with ever-increasing regulation

07:59

[HAVELOCK] [SMG] 2980 @ 0.000081 = 0.2414 BTC [-] {11}

08:01

heh. guilds have the same problem as, well, anything else that gets power. it tends to become more important to hold onto power (by whichever means) which eventually might come at the cost of the thing they exist for

08:01

wywialm you familiar with the dumping issue ?

08:01

so I'll buy that as a vivid example of getting the right knowledge at the right place, but don't buy the form as a solve-all.

08:02

bounce there's no solve all, outside of poincarre's.

08:02

and regarding emergency medicine: i agree with mircea_popescu, adding that the most probable explanation for this are large economies of scale and perhaps public good as well

08:03

basic healt care at any rate. the frivolous stuff, less so. and there's always the risk of glossing over the rare but expensive medical cases

08:03

s/lt/&h/

08:03

at least partially, and as far as i managed to research it, i believe it's a non-issue, perhaps you could point to something convincing me to believe otherwise?

08:04

wywialm let me formalise it for the sake of public discussion.

08:05

admitting for the sake of argument that competition happens on measurable parameters of defined products, all businesses will normally compete on operational efficiency

08:05

whoever manages to produce x as defined cheapest wins most of the market.

08:05

however, if dumping is allowed, then company Y could sell product X for 0. inasmuch as none of its competitors have more money in the bank, they would necessarily go out of business.

08:05

as a de facto monopoly, Y can now charge infinity for X.

08:06

this will drive new competitors in the market, of crouse, but the system has two major problems :

08:06

one is that a competition on operational efficiency has been transformed in a simple financial competition of "who can support dumping longer"

08:06

and moreover, the entire point of the economy is to close the zero-infinity price window as soon as possible.

08:06

well, it's very conditional of market organisation - barriers to entry for example

08:06

this goes against that.

08:07

yes, but as a model, this is the economical reason you were asking for earlier.

08:07

there does in fact exist *an* economical reason for things to play out that way.

08:07

not necessarily strong enough for it to happen too often, or even at all. but factually, it does exist.

08:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94778 @ 0.00094343 = 89.4164 BTC [-] {2}

08:08

as a theoretical possiblity - i agree. but empirically, i have never seen it done

08:08

i have.

08:09

it's how supermarkets work, fundamentally, all across the world. they drive out small shops in phase 1, with low prices

08:09

they take advantage of the captive market they created, afterwards.

08:09

and regularly attack each other with the same trick afterward

08:09

phase 1 lasts 3-5 years, and is actually evaluated as part of the financing of a new development.

08:09

it's not quite 0..inf but it does happen all the time

08:09

have a look at education, for example - govt is permanently dumping the sector, there are no expectations to the reversal of the course and yet it doesn't manage to win the whole market

08:10

this is why the us sucks, basically. it, not having ancient microstructure in place, turned into a sprawl hellhole

08:10

european style towns where commercial and residential zones are not separated are rare in the us

08:11

wywialm it is not dumping the whole sector. even if mcdonald sold for free i wouldn't patronise them. i stll eat at good restaurants.

08:11

in fact, mcdonalss DOES sell for free in most of the us, it does more business as a proxy for usg welfare than anything else.

08:11

same for all the ff chains.

08:13

but the product differentiation is a good defense against dumping, as it can work only in very simple markets, food and education is not one of them

08:14

depends.

08:14

we're dumping the shit out of high-end btc education in this chan, for instance.

08:14

and i believe the 0..inf is never an option, the dumping winners can charge only a monopoly rent afterwards, having erected (rather weak) barriers to entry

08:14

it's part of my evil strategy of preventing the usg from ever mattering in this space.

08:15

in a well-developed economy capital requrements are much less significant barrier, for example

08:15

maybe.

08:16

you're saying the us gov't *cannot possibly* learn?

08:16

it does get complicated real quick just as soon as one tries to take the theoretical model to the actual market

08:16

which is why economy is such metaphysics.

08:16

bounce it can not possibly afford to pay people that can outcompete us in teaching.

08:16

economists do tend to get a bit hung up on solutions without really getting down to the structure of the underlying drivers

08:17

which brings in an interesting side point : recently the us propaganda press ran a story comparing military spending, showing the us as the sum of europe and other states.

08:17

the quietly glossed over point being, of course, that a dollar of usg spending does not buy it a dollar of rl value.

08:17

i buy at a discount, often significant. they buy at a premium, always significant.

08:17

this and other imbalances make it so that the usg can not actually afford to compete in this particular market.

08:18

governments tend to do that. but how does the premium between us and eu gov'ts compare?

08:18

thats funny that govt always points to costs and expenditures as something inherently positive

08:19

(at least what little I've seen of economists... let's see if I still have that impression in a year or so, say)

08:19

well, aren't they the drivers of the economy? so money raked in and tossed out is driving the economy, surely?

08:20

hope we'll continue this fascinating discussion sometime later, i'll be going now

08:20

wywialm indeed. very funny.

08:20

bounce so they propose. like you know, the plowing fly proposes its exertions drive the ox.

08:20

bye

08:21

later.

08:22

it's a bit dishonest, really. like the nth level manager proclaiming he did all the work. much rather he'd just admit others did the work, he just make the work effective. which is nothing to sneeze at if done well.

08:23

s/make/helped &/

~ 15 minutes ~

08:39

[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 18 @ 0.01400945 = 0.2522 BTC [-] {5}

08:46

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00094386 = 15.1018 BTC [+]

08:47

[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 118 @ 0.00088447 = 0.1044 BTC [+] {3}

~ 20 minutes ~

09:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00094958 = 20.321 BTC [+]

09:15

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.57975513 = 3.4785 BTC [-] {5}

09:16

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.57228777 = 14.8795 BTC [-] {7}

09:19

[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00571686 = 1.1434 BTC [-] {5}

09:23

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-04-02/

09:24

Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.

09:25

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553818.0

09:25

My new TREZOR

09:26

[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 340 @ 0.00088646 = 0.3014 BTC [+] {5}

09:28

That comic looks spot on.

09:32

MS is still dumping Xbox afaik

09:32

sold at a loss for years

09:33

mircea_popescu, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.20// when are getting a medal from the foundation for taking the heat?

09:34

i think they only have medals perpared for the surprisingly-arrested

09:34

nothing designed for the surprisingly-not-arrested

09:34

Danny speaks https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319

09:35

one thing i dont get, is why he'd be stepping down for death threats, before anyone was worried about the rumors

09:35

doesnt quite add up

09:35

o look at that, scott adams trying to kaching on things that are happening but he can't be bothered to understand

09:35

how very hot topic of him.

09:36

sure it does, 2+2=5, no?

09:36

Guest15829 classical scammer talk. "the scam would have been fine if it weren't for the evil interlopers fud"

09:37

also, he says he covered for the locked coins in BF/Gox

09:37

but then says if he had them there would be enough money

09:37

:?

09:38

and wraps up it up in a neat little bow by saying he wants to sell his stake

09:38

it's very simple : "if you people were nice i'd have paid for this out of pocket but because you were mean i am not so neeneer"

09:38

just about at the conceptual level of the average bitcointard.

09:39

he should just pass his stake to Neo, it has no value with all that debt anyway

09:39

obviously "what's best for his fambly" is trying to make a split anyway.

09:39

hardly teh point. i dunno why all these scammor dudes imagine that's an argument. yes dude, if we wanted to feed your fambly we'd have just donated you the btc.

09:40

next time when you're out to do "what's best for your fambly" go ask for donations. ceos do what's best for their shareholders.

09:41

i didnt verify my nick now that i set enforce on :(

09:41

how long must i wait!

09:41

April 1, nice date for such a topic, chetty.

09:42

just say release

09:42

/msg NickServ release nick

09:43

Herp has a rating agency? He forgot derp in the title for Herp Derp Rating Agency

09:43

thx!

09:44

wb

09:45

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.5710002 = 2.284 BTC [-]

09:45

wait. hadn't danny claimed that they had lost nothing on mtgox

09:46

"because the signs were there" ?

09:46

way to prove oneself a liar jeez.

09:46

i mean stupid is one thing. hard to hide, already well known, no big deal. but a liar is a different story.

09:47

well he manages to say it both ways in this post

09:47

that any losses were personal

09:47

lol

09:47

another bitcoin classic diaster

09:48

but if he had the coins lost everything wouold be ok

09:48

did he cover the losses but not cover them?

09:48

that's besides the point.

09:48

i trust banks and wallstreet more and more everyday

09:48

two weeks ago he claimed no funds were lost in gox. today he claims funds were lost in gox.

09:48

that's pretty much the end of hte line.

09:49

sigh

09:50

i heard he doesn't even have a daughter

09:50

so much for limited liability

09:50

he has a daughter

09:51

VanCleef, i trust banks and wallstreet more and more everyday // at least you know you will be cheated, in btc space its still an open question

09:51

lol

09:52

if it werent for the handful of people not cheating, btc would be much easier to read

09:52

i blame mp!

09:52

youre what makes scamming possibru

09:53

at least wallstreet and banks take off your pants first before fucking you in the ass, bitcoiners make you wear a pair of jeans first

09:54

just a bunch of cowards hiding behind their computers

09:56

wow even TradeFortress posted in a Neo thread

09:57

odd

09:58

i should intradite myself.

09:59

i hope tf got fucked over

09:59

well he aint in jail, soooo

10:00

like the jizz sock that he is

10:00

;;tell artifexd irccloud

10:02

;;later tell artifexd irccloud

10:02

The operation succeeded.

10:02

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00094652 = 12.0681 BTC [-]

10:04

http://25.media.tumblr.com/7f9ed98dbff9c7ccce7056a9b53dad68/tumblr_mj8r2tO4ZR1s7eb1eo1_500.jpg

10:04

brunettes make the best blondes.

10:07

i dont discriminate based on hair color

10:07

all boobies are legal in my jurisdiction

10:08

http://trilema.com/2014/bitbet-march-2014-statement/

10:08

BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

10:08

the hopefully final-final restatement of that thing jesus.

10:12

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3555 @ 0.00012411 = 0.4412 BTC [-] {11}

10:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17248 @ 0.00094719 = 16.3371 BTC [+] {2}

10:15

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg6033647#msg6033647

10:15

Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)

10:18

"but if it weren't for the trolls it appears that it could have still managed."

10:20

well at least sa is having fun.

10:20

"MP should buy Neo and Bee and be the next CEO."

10:21

so backwards, this buying of the company concept

10:21

kakobrekla was also nominated as Cognitive new CEO

10:21

so basically "mp is the only solvent entity in bitcoin finance we would like us to spend his money just as we whine about how mean and evil he is" ?

10:21

sounds a whole fucking lot like socialism to me.

10:22

congrats, western world, this is what you've built.

10:22

now go beat up your children and send them naked i nthe street to earn a living

10:22

it'll be for their own good.

10:22

it's like multi-layered thought is no longer possible

10:22

just one level

10:23

the lizards are taking over!

10:23

ThickAsThieves, nah that happened a long time ago

10:23

isn't bitcoin great tho ? it empowers me to literaly urinate all over their faces.

10:24

were it not for bitcoin, i'm sure some elected official or other would have thought this is "prudent".

10:24

to be honest i still get shaken that bitcoin just wont work because humans

10:25

it'll work just fine.

10:25

those humans will just make very fine human skin lampshades is all.

10:25

it was always about the salvation of the worthy, never about the salvation of the flock as a whole.

10:26

so many of them, so few of us

10:26

i hope yer right though

10:26

odds are in your favor

10:26

that's for sure

10:26

well technically there are more chickens too.

10:26

indeed indeed

10:26

one more thing to worry about, thanks!

10:26

The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000

10:27

(amusingly, bangladesh and nigeria are in the top 15)

10:28

fuck sake securities thread is mostly made up of neobee and activemining threads

10:28

i wonder if this forum investor IPO thing is over now

10:29

to be clear,

10:29

just like in the old glbse blowup days lol

10:29

i do think scams will still come around

10:29

but the audience is gone

10:29

no room for notable ones

10:29

the forum is like 5 guys with 500 accounts

10:29

and .5 bitcoin

10:29

lol

10:29

[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.067 = 0.201 BTC [+]

10:29

probably hey

10:30

mircea_popescu> The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000 < I wonder how many people taxpayers employed to count all the chickens?

10:30

:)

10:30

lets face it bitcoin is only good for scamming

10:31

hope the price goes to 0

10:31

vancleef what i'm saying is, how much more scamming can there really be

10:31

Wall Streets turn i guess

10:31

jborkl well most of this is farmed, you know ? they're reported anyway, for various regulatory purposes

10:31

wallstreet is much safe than bitcoiners

10:31

ThickAsThieves we said (or moreover, hoped) exactly the same 3-4 times already.

10:31

yeah I know

10:32

they'll always be scams and suckers

10:32

the collection of dr foreskins, ie, pompous if clueless nobodies, is endless.

10:32

hence the story of pointless and witless.

10:32

Why is gold more popular than platinum in finance?

10:32

thanks to this bitcoin shit, scamming has become alot easier

10:32

i guess the next rallies will bring the new blood

10:32

the menstrual cycle of money

10:32

exactly. the forum had been negligible btc anyway, for a long time now.

10:32

yeh the rally scam

10:32

CheckDavid "more popular" ?

10:32

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1477 @ 0.00012185 = 0.18 BTC [-] {6}

10:32

but that means somedud is out there chocking his chicken 16 billion times to make nuggets

10:33

mircea_popescu: lack of a better term :(

10:33

jborkl actually it's mostly automatred now. most chickens in the world touch a human inside the mouth for the first time in their... existence.

10:33

CheckDavid but what were you trying to say

10:33

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5831 @ 0.00011783 = 0.6871 BTC [-] {11}

10:34

mircea_popescu: for example. I rarely see platinum as an instrument on brokers. But gold is very common

10:34

Gold is always mentioned historically as a store of value and currency

10:34

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 957 @ 0.00011196 = 0.1071 BTC [-] {5}

10:35

I dont think bitcoin has more scams that other things, its just more visible, to us

10:35

man i'm so sick of scams, i try and do the right thing and not be scammy and support this bitcoin shit but its just full of fucking animals

10:35

CheckDavid are you trying to ask why isn't platinum a monetary metal ?

10:35

mircea_popescu: maybe. Let's put it that way. I m just looking for some perspective

10:36

from now on whenver a mainstrea person asks me about bitcoin i'm just going to tell them to stay away from it because its all just bullshit and lies and a pyramid scheme and full of pos scammers

10:36

fuck you satoshi

10:36

because gold is, and there can only be one.

10:36

VanCleef who was going to ask you ?

10:37

i get asked about it from mom and pop investors

10:38

i didn't even invest in neobee but just so sick and tired of all the scams all the time

10:38

fucking animals

10:38

so you didn't invest,w hat do you care.

10:38

and what's some random dork, long exposed anyway, have to do with bitcoin

10:38

the whole bitcoin industry

10:38

just tell them to stay away from havelock, it's not hard.

10:38

mircea_popescu: what about platinum vs silver?

10:38

havelock will shut down this year

10:39

i want to work at a government agency and bring bitcoin down

10:39

sick of it

10:39

insert money into mouth :) http://bitbet.us/bet/617/and-then-there-was-one/

10:39

probably too expensive per ounce

10:40

So it's a matter of volume mircea_popescu ?

10:40

silver is appealing to poor people in the manner ltc is appealing to kids with gpus

10:40

I see

10:40

platinum does not share that trait.

10:40

while i'm shilling bitbet, these are outrageously good odds on 'yes'. http://bitbet.us/bet/796/an-eastern-conference-team-will-win-the-nba/

10:41

And maybe it's not ' beautiful' as good

10:41

so, when will there be a gold future on mpex? will it be called pmex? :)

10:41

*gold

10:41

weren't all the good teams in the west ?

10:41

except miami heat and indiana pacers

10:41

pankkake just as soon as someone with an actual gold business grows some balls.

10:41

indiana pacers is now a good team !?

10:41

wow.

10:42

(i last followed nba cca 1993, cause i was playing some pretty cool simulator for the pc.

10:42

it had byrd and johnson etc)

10:44

http://25.media.tumblr.com/37378da0d39c775f54ab0d2276aade5e/tumblr_mkz6zdxz6W1reurnmo1_1280.jpg

10:47

http://www.eatliver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/t1.jpg

10:47

http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Crocker%27s_rules

10:47

Crocker's rules - Lesswrongwiki

10:48

mircea_popescu i can ask him if he'd accept ATC... what's 6BTC worth of ATC these days, anyway?

10:48

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094554 = 16.1687 BTC [-]

10:48

like 100 satoshi per atc afaik ?

10:48

but i dun recall wha we're discussing here

10:48

also, i got this weird twinge in my sides at 11:54, strange

10:48

me rebuying a casascius coin

10:48

lol

10:48

o o hehe

10:49

"hello sir plz to rebuy"

10:49

6BTC is probably the whole ATC market cap!

10:49

just a bout.

10:49

nonsense, i'll sell 10% of my ATC for 6btc

10:52

well, i tell ya what. there's this guy, see, and he wants to sell a coin

10:52

altho TBF if he's realized he just blew too big of a wad and wants $$ back, i think ATC will be a bit of a hard sell

10:53

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/50-for-50-fine-silver-coin-polar-bear-2014-prod1930018#.Uzwjg61dVro

10:53

$50 for $50 Fine Silver Coin - Polar Bear (2014)

10:53

i really like these "face for face" silver coins

10:54

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-less-healthy-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters/

10:54

Study: Vegetarians Less Healthy, Lower Quality Of Life Than Meat-Eaters « CBS Atlanta

10:55

ahahah lel @ portrait mp

10:57

http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/200000/10000/7000/100/217164/217164.strip.gif

10:57

I'm not sure why you're so pissed VanCleef... Bitcoin acts like cash but digital. hard to get back, no reversal mechanism.

10:58

chetty read the paper

10:58

People borrowing/wanting cash for their business/family/whatever. Even friends/family often. You then have to run after the money/never see it again.

10:58

the study represents about 31 vegetarians

10:59

so the study doesn't even even try to separate other factors (i.e. vegetarians being more physically active and health conscious, while non vegetarians includes mcdonalds eating couch potatoes)

10:59

The issue is people fail to realize Bitcoin isn't like banks, it's like cash for the digital space.

10:59

it also doesnt separate whether those vegetarians became such to help with said health problems

11:00

;;create bitbet "The dilbert comic from April 2nd will be posted in b-a more than 10 times"

11:00

for example i'm pretty sure going whole food vegan reduces allergies

11:00

not adds them

11:00

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg6030319#msg6030319

11:00

[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

11:00

Sending Bitcoins to Neobee is like investing cash in the guy screaming on the street corner he's starting a bank. He start by buying pamphlets and distributing them for advertising the business, hyping and taking further cash in.

11:01

Most of the time, the appearance of being professional, having offices and all is pure artifice and money wasting.

11:03

The forum is like the street, don't invest lots of cash with anyone you meet with good sounding claims.

11:03

nubbins` i thought it wasn't that bad rly.

11:03

Scams aside, if you're not doing any kind of lending/investing, BTC can be very secure and works very well in the digital space for wealth transfer.

11:04

ThickAsThieves dun hate jus' because your life quality is lower :D

11:04

well how would i know anyway

11:04

hehe

11:04

my life is my life

11:05

damaged lifegoods

11:05

typical of whats being put out as 'science' these days actually

11:06

Namworld: reminds me of Shooting Fish

11:06

?

11:06

on the let's lulz @wikipedia angle : article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mircea_Popescu&action=history 12kb, untouched since last month.

11:06

a movie about scammers; they get investors but everything is faked

11:07

article about how there shouldn't be an article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mircea_Popescu&action=history 19kb, updated daily.

11:07

ThickAsThieves, I actually did 5ish years as vegetarian, it was fine health wise

11:07

almsot as good trollage as the forum on display.

11:07

pankkake wasn't that wall street ?

11:07

(1980s film)

11:07

sorry namworld bit emotional

11:08

it's a british movie

11:08

haven't seen wall street

11:08

no wait not the 80s one

11:08

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.5715001 = 4.572 BTC [+] {2}

11:08

boiler room is a good movie

11:09

yeah that one!

11:09

wd cleefsy.

11:10

hmm i think my homo zebra needs a cigarette

11:11

pipe ?

11:11

long cigholder ?

11:11

http://imgur.com/kKgYXoH

11:11

imgur: the simple image sharer

11:11

just a plain ol' cig

11:11

a dart, if you will

11:11

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Cigarette_holder.png

11:11

that. srsly.

11:11

he's so working class it bleeds.

11:12

ah, a hepburn/thompson

11:14

so the power button on my cellular telephone has been working only intermittently these past weeks

11:14

I got hit hard when I joined the forum. Didn't expect what I stumbled upon. It seems everyone are connected with sock puppets. Mostly artifices.

11:14

on the bright side, a replacement part is only $25

11:14

on the dim side, it requires a complete dismantling of the phone

11:15

reminds me of an opium pipe

11:15

but, you know, small.

11:15

Should have been more careful. Kind of expected "high risk", should have expected "ludicrous risk".

11:19

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canadian-brad-katsuyama-in-spotlight-over-rigged-markets-allegation-1.2594639

11:19

Canadian Brad Katsuyama in spotlight over 'rigged' markets allegation - Business - CBC News

11:20

Speaking of life quality, by all estimates, I won't be lacking funds in the future. But as long as that's not a reality and is just on paper, my living standards are pretty low. Well according to local standards anyway.

11:20

I could probably live better on much less if I moved to another country.

11:21

Namworld this is generally true of anyone living in a "first world" country

11:21

doubly so if you're in a "first world neighbourhood" of said country

11:22

I'm in a poorer area of the city, but far from the poorest.

11:23

due to the wonders of gradual gentrification, there are very few "poor areas" in my city larger than a block or so

11:23

generally it's a mix of poor drug addicts and professionals

11:24

lol "gentrification"

11:24

nice word hey?

11:24

"making it fit for the gentry"

11:25

same root as "gentleman"

11:26

but srsly. there's maybe 40 houses on my dead-end street, property values ranging from $80k to $250k

11:26

Going to stay like that until I at least repay all my debts. Probably going to stay like that for a while after I repay my debts. You make sure you have no debts and the business is well and you have a nice cushion.

11:26

nubbins`: sounds like you're talking about Baltimore.

11:26

diametric: sure, except we don't really have black people here

11:26

Then you can live well, not the other way around.

11:27

Otherwise you jeopardize everything.

11:27

Namworld: 0 debt? What if you need credit for a large project.

11:27

something like 1% of the population of st john's is black

11:28

I'd assume as long as you make a profit despite capital expenses, credit/debt can be good sometimes

11:28

Ideally you don't. Although I haven't had problem getting credit.

11:28

It's pretty incredible to look at. In on block you'll see very expensive homes, rich white people walking expensive toy dogs. Go one block down, and you have thugs peddling herion on the corner and prostitutes blowing dudes in the alley.

11:28

But yes, I agree.

11:28

I guess "short-term" credit is much better than "long term"

11:28

diametric: that sounds nice

11:29

given taking short term credit is for expenses leading to a profit and not just buying Ferrari

11:29

nubbins`: Its even better because the crime rarely crosses the boundary of the block because the police and criminals have an informal pact. They don't mess with the gentrified areas, the police don't mess with their shitholes.

11:30

everybody's happy except the poor people who aren't criminals!

11:30

!ticker m s.mpoe

11:30

[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093355 / 0.00094107 / 0.00094958 (958718 shares, 902.23 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094289 / 0.00095866 (7302745 shares, 6,885.75 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087815 / 0.00096 (30017455 shares, 26,360.00 BTC)

11:30

!last m s.mpoe

11:30

Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00094554 BTC [-]

11:31

nubbins`: exactly

11:31

neobee was a pretty shitty name anyway

11:31

If you make largesses to yourself, you go "Boohoo, I've run out of funds, spending everything on advertising and a big salary to myself, now there's nothing left. I'm sorry. So sad." Like neobee and the like.

11:31

the name was actually just Neo

11:32

what, you don't think hamsterdam (a la The Wired) would work?

11:32

Mats_cd03 not without an omar ;(

11:32

(i personally do -- that reality has played out thousands of times in thousands of jurisdictions)

11:32

Neo & Morpheus

11:32

^

11:33

I'll still call it Neobee. Neo never existed anyway, or came close to fruition.

11:33

what if i told you... that your investment went straight into the pockets of cypriot marketing firms?

11:33

lol nubbins

11:34

first time I loled to a morpheus meme!

11:34

and in Danny's fat salary?

11:34

How much was he paying himself anyway?

11:35

you'll never find out

11:36

unless tat tells us

11:36

nubbins

11:36

http://imgur.com/AqkNYGG

11:36

imgur: the simple image sharer

11:37

VanCleef: too simple to be funny

11:40

anyone knows if the blockr.io guys hang out on IRC ?

11:40

I still owe so much BTC. Not happy about it.

11:41

kakobrekla is somehow related

11:41

pankkake no these are supposed to be deep wisdoms

11:41

<mike_c> unless tat tells us /// that kinda info resided with Neo, I assume

11:41

*

Namworld looks at Ukyo

11:41

everyone says to swim against the stream. no one says, make sure you know the direction first

11:42

ThickAsThieves: you didn't know anything non-public about their financials?

11:43

doubtful

11:43

mike_c TAT got away to avoid investigation. you expect him to say he knows internal info?

11:43

no. silly question.

11:44

i remember on the second day of neobee ipo i called it a scamm and tat put me on ignore for trolling

11:44

apology accepted

11:45

lol

11:45

what made you think it was a scam then?

11:46

i cant remmeber was a while ago

11:46

i'm not sure scam is an appropriate term, however liberally some would like to use it

11:46

but the story isnt over yet it seems

11:46

I'm down a lot of my debt. I have last requests to fulfill. And a lot of people who never replied to me about it.

11:47

alot of neobee problems seems to be related to bitfunder and ukyo as well

11:47

TAT must be satisfied. But a few of my larger lenders are going to get pissed. At least I think so? They don't seem to ask/be in a hurry about it a lot.

11:48

busy filing paperwork

11:48

not to mention passthrough shareholders

11:48

As for most others who lent me smaller amounts... I typically have to run after them for repaying them?

11:48

Yes, passthrough holders too.

11:49

everyone is so accustomed to scam that they don't even think of researching if we don't offer repayment

11:49

I send them messages asking about claiming/repaying them and never receive replies...

11:50

Sometimes for hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of BTC.

11:50

[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.067 = 0.603 BTC [-]

11:50

so put a time limit on your next message and wash your hands if they don't reply

11:51

If I harass them for a few months, they eventually reply, "oh yeah, right, why not? I'll take it."

11:51

[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6554 @ 0.00010534 = 0.6904 BTC [-] {17}

11:52

I'd probably go with Canadian laws about unclaimed debt. Not sure how long it is, but probably a few years.

11:52

i had someone redeem 1 BF TAT.ASICMINER share today

11:52

Keep the list a few years. It's just a file. Not a problem keeping it.

11:52

a rare occurence now

11:52

eh

11:52

but some people eventually claim their shit

11:54

Like, what are people doing? Giving money around to whine against scammers, and when it's not a scam, go "That one is nice. Will leave them my money."

11:57

someone give us something good to invest in

11:58

why don't you make your own shit to invest in

11:58

If I had something good to invest in, I'd probably take it all to myself...

11:58

^- that

11:58

thestringpuller cause i dont want to scam people

11:58

not share it around. Not before having invested as much as I could reasonably do first.

11:59

VanCleef: how would you scam niggas if you are only investing in your own product?

11:59

VanCleef: invest in your future, don't wait for someone else to do it :D

11:59

well i'm not a technical person

11:59

doesn't matter

11:59

learn a trade

11:59

so i cant make anything

11:59

nubbins` isn't technical

11:59

but he's good at making art

11:59

as he just said learn a trade

11:59

lol

11:59

like what?

12:00

what do you like to do?

12:00

TBF i worked as a programmer for 5 years

12:00

i just like jizzing

12:00

Fuck, I'm even wearing rags, come to think of it.

12:00

make porn then

12:00

but i dislike corporate like

12:00

*life

12:00

go work at a zoo

12:00

i'm sure mp would invest in it

12:00

as a amonkey

12:00

no money in porn when its free on the internet

12:00

My clothes are full of holes.

12:00

VanCleef: well, y'know, get a list of trades that are in demand and pick one

12:00

throw a dart at the mpex security list and invest.

12:01

you know all those idiots driving around in F350 pickups? they did it

12:01

hmmm

12:01

Bail out my lenders, take over my debt.

12:02

not sure about where you live, but there's a nation-wide shortage of skilled tradespeople in canada

12:02

Eh

12:02

you can make $80k a year just doing electrical work on a job site

12:02

or welding, w/e

12:02

no thanks nubbins

12:02

i already have a good job at subway

12:02

one of those words didn't belong in that sentence

12:02

oh, yes. Electrician/plumber/welders/etc get high pay in Canada.

12:03

Like better than tech sector/accountant/lawyers/doctors often.

12:03

yup

12:03

welders, not that high, but electrician/plumber for sure.

12:03

i think sfi will be the next scam to fall

12:03

shit, substitute teachers make $35-40/hr

12:03

Namworld: underwater welding is where it's at these days

12:03

But welders still get a good pay.

12:04

oh, underwater. Well yes.

12:04

i read you can make 100k working in a laundry room on an oil rig

12:04

but yeh just looking for bitcoin related security to invest in

12:04

no a job or career

12:04

VanCleef i have a friend who did a 3-year ROV course at a local college

12:04

he paid off his student loans in three months WASHING DISHES on a supply boat.

12:04

If you don't mind living on an oil rig, yeah, I suppose.

12:04

money isn't a problem

12:05

just asking what to invest in

12:05

ah

12:05

well

12:05

nothing.

12:05

seriously.

12:05

mmmk

12:05

not joking

12:05

Well you could take over my BTC debt. It's BTC denominated.

12:05

VanCleef, gimme money

12:05

throw some money down on some bitbets

12:06

there's 5.5btc up for grabs on the s.mg VWAP bet, and that's closing around the time chetty said the next release is coming out

12:06

more seriously though, if you have to ask what to invest in, it's probably better not to invest at all

12:06

yeh true apo

12:07

maybe i should sponser a hackathon thingy

12:07

[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.47941077 BTC to 4`937 shares, 50221 satoshi per share

12:07

*

VanCleef shrugs

12:08

drkow

my girlfriend had 20k burning a hole in her pocket and invested it at some bank last week, I can't wait for her to lose it so I can laugh

12:08

I doubt you can fullfill buying my debt in any meaningful fashion tho.

12:08

...you can't wait for your girlfriend to lose twenty thousand dollars... so you can laugh at her?

12:08

thats idiotic to say

12:09

*

nubbins` raises eyebrow

12:09

maybe i should start investing in the stock market

12:09

maybe you should create a diverse portfolio like an adult would

12:09

the only thing to invest in is MPOE

12:09

the stock market is so inflated it hurts

12:09

and that might bubble if too many people start dumping money in it

12:10

we're already in a bailout bubble

12:11

;;google vim golf

12:11

VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every keystroke!: <http://vimgolf.com/>; Changelog, Rules & FAQ - VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every ...: <http://vimgolf.com/about>; Leaderboard - VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every keystroke!: <http://vimgolf.com/top>

12:12

nubbins`: what do you charge for screen printing?

12:12

like what's the upfront per screen fee, and cost per shirt?

12:14

varies based on quantity and number of colors. generally there's a flat setup fee of $40, plus $15 for each extra color after the first

12:14

blank shirts are $5 for regular, $7 for organic, plus printing labor

12:15

ink costs, etc

12:15

if you had some numbers in mind, i could give you numbers bac

12:15

k

12:16

cool nubbins you make shirts?

12:16

shirts, posters, download cards, cd/vinyl sleeves, books, w/e

12:16

i have a friend starting his clothing label looking to me to outsource it for him

12:17

you'd probably get a better price from a local company, since they wouldn't have to ship the product to you

12:17

yeh nice

12:18

http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/04/02_bitcoin-q1-2014.html

12:18

Bitcoin Q1 2014

12:18

;;gpg eauth benkay

12:18

Request successful for user benkay, hostmask benkay!~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/39F274AFBC7ACAC7

12:18

;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:9b1f48c2d3f7308c2bfc37b583412ab487e081fbf3942171827ad295

12:18

Error: Incorrect one-time password. Try again.

12:18

12:18

morning.

12:18

wat

12:19

yeh true nubbins

12:19

;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13dc0a8f650d9a3d5bc25aa33a2bb9b6b90e2985d8f072845fe7fad9

12:19

12:19

You are now authenticated for user benkay with key 39F274AFBC7ACAC7

12:19

"despite it processing buttloads and buttloads of btc-denominated bets"

12:20

what's the buttload-to-btc rate these days?

12:21

hm, apparently roughly 1:1

12:23

whatever i want :)

12:26

[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0436 = 0.1308 BTC [+]

12:27

hey does anyone have a concise "merge commits suck and you suck for producing them" on tap?

12:27

no, but I'd like to

12:27

also one of the reasons I hate github

12:27

i have a contractor whose hand needs to either be slapped or held, can't decide yet.

12:27

worst is merge commits with nothing

12:27

pankkake: what does github have to do with merge commits?

12:28

just a bad git pull

12:28

you can merge pull requests from the web interface

12:28

and it creates a github merge commit

12:28

ah

12:29

eh i'm not so hateful about that. it's nice to have a point at which the test branch was merged into master to point at.

12:30

it's the dev fucking with the test branch generating oodles of 'merging XXX of remote into XXX'

12:30

but it gets for every little fix - actually little fixes are extremely insuited to pull requests

12:30

just let me send a .patch…

12:30

sure sure

12:30

:)

12:30

but apparently people can't even email any more

12:30

much less send patches over email

12:30

yup

12:31

so here's the problem: people working on css do not understand or care about complexities of version control

12:31

nor, probably, should they.

12:31

(open to argument on that one. i don't know anything anyways.)

12:32

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00094423 = 27.2882 BTC [-] {2}

12:33

i actually like pankkake idea getting paid to troll

12:33

I worked with a css guy that mastered version control, it's great but indeed rare

12:33

id love to setup a call centre in india doing that

12:33

;;later tell blackwhite remind me to ask you about pricing models some day

12:33

The operation succeeded.

12:33

VanCleef: never happened and isn't open to business now

12:33

pankkake: sounds dangerously close to actually learning how to program :D :D :D

12:33

do you think the idea could work?

12:34

i might steal it

12:34

VanCleef: don't even need a call center. just a few effective humans somewhere cheap.

12:34

course

12:34

"effective"

12:34

"cheap"

12:34

benkay: yeah, he knew how to. which is why I loved working with him: the CSS he was writing made sense. I almost never had to touch it, because it was thought for what was going to be written

12:34

troll patrol inc

12:35

VanCleef: do it.

12:35

anyway, with git you can rewrite commits etc., so perhaps you could have some sort of staging branch for those who don't understand git

12:35

yeh maybe benkay

12:35

client ain't gonna pay for that

12:35

easier to crack the whip on new devs than get client to pay for vcs maintenance

12:36

still they might have to rebase one day

12:36

troll/hyping service

12:36

VanCleef: I don't think many have the funds for it

12:36

to pay for the serivce or set it up?

12:36

to pay for the service

12:37

just like having a marketing budget

12:37

er. this is the usual "never time to do it right the first time, always time to do it again later, at higher cost" argument. yet somehow there's always room for people with clue. funny how that works.

12:38

my theory is that smart clients don't outsource anyways

12:38

but perhaps I'm jaded by past experiences

12:39

hmmm

12:39

just do less, but do it right.

12:39

at the very least they'll be picky about whom they outsource to

12:39

i like smart clients who know nothing about compute.

12:40

doing less, but shipping on time, have less bugs etc. = happy client

12:40

the issue is that you don't have to overpromise first

12:40

yeah f overpromising.

12:40

f overdelivering.

12:41

I was fed up with having to fill overpromises I didn't make

12:41

the worst was when my estimates were modified without my knowledge

12:41

ho ho ho

12:42

that's a funny one

12:42

reasoning: "we need to have the contract, it will bring more business later"

12:42

*

bounce waits for a couple of /good/ devs and assorted other techies to team up and find themselves /competent/ management to lord it over them. that'll be the day.

12:42

bounce: I know a few companies like that

12:43

bounce: the only solution is to be the competent management you wish to see in the world :)

↖

12:43

no, that's not the only solution. far from it. but understanding that with good management you achieve more is a prerequisite.

12:44

i hear you.

12:45

what I've seen is: people who know each other for years, start a company, struggle a lot but at least they enjoy it

12:45

no recruiting outside the web of trust basically

12:45

that might work. it might also end in tears.

12:45

yeah. lots of drama too

12:45

sometimes

12:46

well, that's very limiting. what you need to do is very picky who you pick for what task. including picking promising newbies and give them leeway to earn (or lose) trust.

12:47

bounce: if you go that route you gotta set aside the time for mentorship and training as well.

12:48

ayup. but if you don't... you have more fires to put out. those aren't free either.

12:49

lol never do business in btc outside web of trust

12:49

benkay: would you rather the homie rebase the commits?

12:50

i don't really care

12:50

don't pollute test or master with your damn merge commits

12:50

i think i'm just going to say: 'see this? stop it.'

12:50

git patch output over email to the mentor

12:50

feelings be damned, he's not even my contractor.

12:51

so tell him to do --no-ff or something

12:54

blackwhite

morning gents

12:55

you could provide a .gitconfig wich prevents those by default

12:56

fun market today ;)

12:56

;;ticker

12:56

Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 443.0, Best ask: 445.57, Bid-ask spread: 2.57000, Last trade: 443.0, 24 hour volume: 26274.54235203, 24 hour low: 440.0, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 468.462041006

12:56

damn missing out on all the buying opportunity

12:56

yea

12:57

I'm gonna take a big GULP

12:57

damn 50 USD spread over 24 hours

12:57

market is becoming volatile

12:57

down that much in 6

12:58

volume is relatively low though...

12:58

!ticker m s.mpoe

12:58

[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093355 / 0.00094123 / 0.00094958 (896526 shares, 843.84 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094289 / 0.00095866 (7325348 shares, 6,907.07 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087825 / 0.00096 (30005155 shares, 26,352.03 BTC)

12:58

$depth mpoe

12:58

mpexbot

thestringpuller: S.MPOE Bids: ['15650 @ 0.000944', '1292 @ 0.00094275', '29800 @ 0.00094126', '25400 @ 0.000939', '30700 @ 0.00093838']

12:58

mpexbot

thestringpuller: Asks: ['23152 @ 0.00094554', '16100 @ 0.00094958', '11500 @ 0.00095027', '35600 @ 0.00095069', '118611 @ 0.00096']

13:00

LTC is a bloodbath lel

13:06

still gotta bleed out all of the enthusiasm of 2012

13:08

enthusiasm? 2012 was frightening

13:09

nothing compares to pirate's default...

13:10

idk $266 to $50 was rough

13:10

in a day

13:11

but yeah $13 to $7? with pirate was pretty nasty, I thought it was over then

13:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23152 @ 0.00094554 = 21.8911 BTC [+]

13:16

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/okcoin-fxbtc-btc38-announce-end-chinese-yuan-deposits-starting-april-3-2014/2014/04/02

13:16

[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 133 @ 0.0008329 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {2}

13:21

[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 160 @ 0.00084066 = 0.1345 BTC [+] {2}

13:21

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.57100012 = 17.13 BTC [-] {4}

13:23

!ticker m btce

13:23

You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.

13:23

;;ticker

13:23

Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 434.99, Best ask: 435.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 435.0, 24 hour volume: 28041.83140952, 24 hour low: 435.0, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 466.903021318

13:23

;;ticker --market btce

13:23

BTC-E BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 427.682, Best ask: 428.999, Bid-ask spread: 1.31700, Last trade: 429.0, 24 hour volume: 18362.17626, 24 hour low: 426.01999, 24 hour high: 498.70001, 24 hour vwap: 462.36

13:26

;;volume --market btce

13:26

Error: "volume" is not a valid command.

13:26

;;depth --market btce

13:26

Error: "depth" is not a valid command.

13:27

http://www.economist.com/news/21589145-how-sort-best-rest-whos-good-forecasts

grrrribble!

13:28

punkman

13:30

;;baratio --market btce

13:30

BTCChina | Total bids: 1750087 USD. Total asks: 8049 BTC. Ratio: 217.42721 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 23.5225 seconds

13:37

wow baratio that's a new one

13:37

;;baratio --market bitstamp

13:37

Bitstamp | Total bids: 9380174 USD. Total asks: 24265 BTC. Ratio: 386.56786 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 192.8659 seconds

13:37

;;baratio --market kraken

13:37

Kraken | Total bids: 10750 USD. Total asks: 62 BTC. Ratio: 170.90992 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0002 seconds

13:38

;;calc 9380164/450

13:38

20844.8088889

13:38

;;calc 20844.8088889/24265

13:38

0.859048377865

13:38

;;calc 9380164/386.56786

13:38

24265.2454345

13:39

whoop

13:39

;;calc 9380164/24265

13:39

386.571770039

13:39

wow kraken is still operating

13:39

jurov kakobrekla is usd/btc sensible in the context of a bid/ask ratio?

13:39

is this how the pros do it?

13:42

;;ticker

13:42

Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 437.74, Best ask: 437.9, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 437.9, 24 hour volume: 28545.80434639, 24 hour low: 430.51, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 465.254654461

13:44

;;ticker --market kraken

13:44

Kraken BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 450.0, Best ask: 457.28141, Bid-ask spread: 7.28141, Last trade: 457.28141, 24 hour volume: 18.86593899, 24 hour low: 452.73035, 24 hour high: 502.0, 24 hour vwap: 487.36119

13:44

honestly i dont know

13:46

has the gox practice of allowing unfunded bids and asks spread to bitstamp et al.?

13:49

benkay, btw what's your basis for the "stamp may be running a fractional" ?

13:49

rumors. fud.

13:49

one of those things that's hard to prove ahead of time.

13:49