#trilema | 2018-02-01

Attention Lords And Ladies of The Republic: You may add 161.0.121.253 to your hosts file as Qntra.net

09:20

!~later tell mircea_popescu Qntra.net online at 161.0.121.253 pls to get the domain repointed, ISP statement incoming.

09:20

jhvh1

BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.

09:21

Turns out the problem was I overconfigured the switch yesterday. Less is more.

09:24

oh hey, well done BingoBoingo !

09:24

I can confirm I see it from here

09:25

although it is...slow to load

09:26

congrats BingoBoingo !

09:27

diana_coman: slow to load but i suspect that it has qntra hardcoded links and yer browser sits and tries to resolve and fails

09:27

asciilifeform, the home page directly with the ip was also slow

09:27

see if still slow after adding to hosts

09:27

diana_coman: i meant specifically when loading via ip

09:34

asciilifeform, you are right; works fine after adding to hosts

09:34

wellknown effect

09:35

BingoBoingo: search your html for absolute links to qntra, there's no good reason for them, use relativelinks

09:35

i mean for css/img

09:36

perfectly proper to have clickable links to absolute

09:37

Will do

09:49

Alright, give it a try!

10:01

http://161.0.121.253/2018/02/online-again/

10:01

oh hey.

10:01

And now it is statement time

10:13

mornin'

10:13

mornin mod6

10:14

<+BingoBoingo> Attention Lords And Ladies of The Republic: You may add 161.0.121.253 to your hosts file as Qntra.net << congrats BingoBoingo!

~ 15 minutes ~

10:29

ah latam node ha

10:30

congrats BingoBoingo

10:31

shinohai: I still gotta get a bitcoind on the box

10:31

understandable

10:31

im still setting up slimv today

~ 25 minutes ~

10:57

BingoBoingo: be sure to use trb with sync sanity, cuts sync time from 6+months to coupla weeks at worst

10:57

( at some point we will have to solve the puzzle of just how many trb nodes it makes sense to have inside 1 cage, i also suspect )

11:02

asciilifeform: I put an up to recent block chain copy on the box already, but yes I plan to build the ben_vulpes super aggression for it.

11:03

aa

11:06

ssd too i hope

11:06

Indeed SSD

11:06

*thumbs up*

~ 2 hours 33 minutes ~

13:40

ben_vulpes

wb qntra!

13:41

ben_vulpes

ah how i've missed thee

~ 25 minutes ~

14:06

ya srsly. nice to have it back.

~ 30 minutes ~

14:37

lobbes

Ah, congrats BingoBoingo.

14:40

deedbot

http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/01/the-boingo-isp-january-2018-monthly-statement/ << Bingo Blog - The Boingo ISP January 2018 Monthly Statement

14:42

Updated fiat running account http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/01/the-boingo-isp-january-2018-monthly-statement/#comment-114635

14:42

Comments on how to handle the fx movements in the future welcome, encouraged, and desired

14:49

lobbes

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1778994 << heh, they must be reading logz. MPEx now appears under "2014 Fundraising Campaign"

14:49

Logged on 2018-01-31 19:58 asciilifeform: http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/contributors.html << aaaaand openbsd ~immediately~ listed 'pineapple fund'. and guess who not listed at all, to this day.

14:56

haha

14:58

lobbes

BingoBoingo: small typo under "Assets, Cash"; You have 0 + 0.20123128 = 0.20113128

14:59

trinque

pretty sure it's been there a long time https://archive.is/WwN89

14:59

lobbes: ty, pls to keep the corrections coming

15:00

me voy para un leccion de español

~ 37 minutes ~

15:37

trinque: i missed it: looked for mp, rather than mpex

15:46

deedbot

http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 8: Bit-Level Keccak Sponge

15:47

diana_coman: 'gnat-specific methods' link broken

15:49

asciilifeform, fixed, thank you!

15:50

phf, chapter 8 of eucrypt is a fully-working Keccak, albeit at bit level

15:50

diana_coman: neato

15:50

seems to use whole word (i.e. 64b , on amd64) to store each bit tho

15:50

tbh I would recommend it as a better "starter" approach anyway

15:51

i assume this was deliberate, sorta like my egyptologies

15:51

for understanding reason

15:51

asciilifeform, yes, at this stage the point was to keep it very clear and simple

15:51

aa

15:51

no speed-concern yet

15:52

the current plan is then to go back to the "word-level" and make that one deal with different endianness

15:53

in re shifts/rotates ( as seen in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/w_shifts.ads ) one nitpick : Shift_Left, etc. are not per se gnat-specific; they are in the standard. but for some perverse reason their ~invocation~ is implementation-specific, and requires this gnaticism.

15:53

in principle if one aims for speed, one should look at parallelism I guess

15:53

(supposing this difference makes a difference to anybody)

15:53

huh, for modular types ?

15:53

fwiw i do not know of a cpu , from any earthling cpu maker, that did not have shifts/rotates by 1

15:54

diana_coman: http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/05aarm/html/AA-B-2.html

15:55

fwiw one can also define these like a barbarian, as x * 2 and x / 2 ; and gcc (last i saw) will Do The Right Thing and transform to a shift

15:55

funnily enough the rotates are anyway mainly "shortcuts" for 2 (iirc) transformation operations but otherwise not directly in keccak's defs as such

15:55

but this is not clean.

15:57

diana_coman: the observation re 'take as much speed as you actually need, but not more, if costs ugliness' is correct and is in fact the basis for ffa

15:58

*

diana_coman admits that is one of the things she really, really likes about ffa

15:58

the unfortunate thing re 'use word to store 1 bit' is that it will give obscenely disproportionate slowdown, due to spilling out of cacheable size

15:58

but if the application tolerates this -- no reason wainot.

15:59

( you are likely to see 200-300x slowdown, depending on particular chip, be ready for this )

16:00

we will see

16:00

diana_coman: in some applications, speed doesn't really matter almost at all. and in those, it is even now possible to, e.g., take ch5 ffa for rsatron.

16:01

( it is imho unlikely that anyone will demonstrate an rsatron with fewer moving parts than ffa-ch5 )

~ 23 minutes ~

16:24

phf

diana_coman: ty, i'll try wiring it in, and keep you posted. i assume ada<>c interop is pretty straightforward, though i won't have a chance to try until later next week. suddenly busy

16:27

phf, ada<->C interop was quite straightforward last time I tried it, didn't take much at all; you'll need to add a few exports iirc

16:30

phf

keccak patche on btcbase, also asciilifeform ch9 likewise

16:31

thanks!

~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~

17:36

ty phf !

~ 1 hours 44 minutes ~

19:20

http://qntra.net/2018/02/what-happened-while-qntra-was-down/

!!up mp_en_viaje

19:20

deedbot

mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes.

19:21

Qntbtt

19:21

hola

19:22

Boa Noite

19:23

Still in Colombia?

19:23

aha.

19:23

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1779036 << you're not worthy! milk is a scammer!

19:23

Logged on 2018-01-31 23:06 ben_vulpes: or hm i guess the nick i picked was bv_is_a_scammer

19:26

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779049 <<< word. nginx was impressive a year or two after it came out ; then it regressed to the mean at the usual speed (slowly but discernibly at first, "women in tech" level past few years)

19:26

Logged on 2018-02-01 00:19 trinque: nginx went the venture capital route at some point, gotta justify the rounds

19:26

ohai mp_en_viaje

19:26

how goes

19:26

loox like BingoBoingo has liftoff !

19:26

o hey!

19:26

BingoBoingo: if it's supposed to already resolve on heathendns , it dun yet

19:27

( on box with hand-sewn hosts.txt worxgreat )

19:28

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779055 << lel. tmsr-cisco cert.

19:28

Logged on 2018-02-01 00:30 BingoBoingo: Hello, machines screwed in. Need to return in the morning to figure out what stupid mistake I made configuring the switch/router. Long night of reading sample configs ahead.

19:30

BingoBoingo: aside from where you misspelled me name, loox ok

19:30

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779056 <<< this, for the record, is a question ~TO BE ANSWERED BY PICTURES BEFORE IT IS ASKED~.

19:30

Logged on 2018-02-01 00:33 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what exactly do the digs look like ? cage with own door ? or just rack ? or how

19:30

mp_en_viaje: i assumed he did not post a photo for opsec reason

19:30

( makes life too easy for nosy parkers )

19:30

why so sluggish with this whole "i am an actual person, i behave like an actual person, to the humiliating, painfully evident difference from subhuman idcard carriers" ?

19:31

that's just silly.

19:31

the benefit is the long tail and to be accrued ; the supposed disadvantage is not and to be defended in other ways.

19:31

dja understand the fundamental principle at work ?

19:32

where's the photo of castle popescustein then

19:32

( if there's nothing to be lost by posting it... i bet it's quite a sight, why then not posted )

19:32

woman is to go around naked, not dressed. this because the positive she gets from the advertising of her sexual characteristics sums an epsilon over as large a crowd is exposed (this is a pantsuit rendition ; the correct statement is that her chances to score mp depend on exposure)

19:33

woman's concern that she could be raped is to be addressed through impaling would'be rapists. NOT through "not publishing pubenda".

19:33

that's just how the cost/benefit works out.

19:34

http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-shopping-candlelight-gratis/

19:34

eh that's only inside

19:34

where's the 1 showing the turrets.

19:34

this is alfism nonsense, whatever is said "that is only the X".

19:34

nevertheless, as to the other score : tmsr isp is not some exercise in little boy fantasy wank

19:34

it is intended as very public humiliation of usg impotence.

19:34

the analogous BingoBoingo pic would be if he took one while standing inside the rack, like in phone booth

19:35

consequently it neednt have nor benefits from an ykind of mystery air.

19:35

no, i'm sold, i get the idea , 'nyahaha, come and get it'

19:35

but it does raise the question of why not also 'here is castle mp, come and get'

19:36

because i don't want a throng of poor but stupid women begging in my driveway.

19:36

fair'nuff.

19:36

"we would like to do the thing you do in your way as to the marzipan and in our way as to the fucking plox"

19:37

*

asciilifeform can picture this

19:37

incredible supply of these, by the way. nfi what the fuck is going on in plebe head, but apparently THIS is very much what they mean by "participation" in public affairs.

19:37

notrly news, i guess. anyway.

19:38

<asciilifeform> the analogous BingoBoingo pic would be if he took one while standing inside the rack, like in phone booth << I will pick up a tower box here locally, set it in the cage and take this pic. The thing is deep.

19:39

naah BingoBoingo , take the kind mp_en_viaje described

19:39

and finally -- mp's castle is owned by mp outright. bb has investors ; makes claims to those investors, benefits IMMENSELY from implementing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779188

19:39

Logged on 2018-02-02 00:30 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779056 <<< this, for the record, is a question ~TO BE ANSWERED BY PICTURES BEFORE IT IS ASKED~.

19:39

rather than upon prodding.

19:39

This is a point.

19:40

BingoBoingo, seriouasly, form the mental habit. pics and blog.

19:40

you get an interesting blog and a great reputation.

19:40

incl., ideally, measurements

19:40

'here's what you get'

19:40

anything else is just pissing in your own cereal.

19:42

another item, BingoBoingo : to specify what bw each box gets. ( is it 1/42 of the pipe ? 1/nth where n is number of occupants ? the latter is somewhat unpleasantly comcastlike, imho . which is it )

19:42

asciilifeform, evidently whosoever wants to buy fixed bw can ; whosoever does not want to so buy gets wat they get.

19:42

right. but gotta specify. currently it's a mystery

19:43

a good time to say "i want five plox" was you know, when we were specifying it ; but still perfectly available.

19:43

asciilifeform, what's a mystery ?

19:43

the concrete cost of e.g. 'i want to emplace 1U and get 500kB/s in/out'

19:45

don;'t be silly, the numbers are in the log.

19:45

*

asciilifeform looks

19:45

we're paying iirc 900 for the rack, you want a unit it's 900/40*2

19:45

we're paying iirc 1400 for bw, 2G or wtf it was ; you want 100m guaranteed, 1400/20*2

19:45

http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/01/18/datacenter-costs << found. was for whole shebang yes

19:46

so you divide what you want out of the total, add the margin and have a fine idea.

19:46

iirc BingoBoingo's numbers in the above were pre-margin tho

19:46

BingoBoingo am i mistaken ?

19:47

you're just not linking an older discussion re margins.

19:47

canhaz link ?

19:47

recall, we were discussing the two ways to do this, either tack on or fixed percent.

19:47

right. but somehow failing to unearth, currently

19:48

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-22#1727601

19:48

Logged on 2017-10-22 05:23 mircea_popescu: after the first year your machines are amortized and your downline built, so you're looking at some decent net margin. before the first year you're burdened by the capital costs and stuck with low occupancy, so you bleed cash.

19:49

aa there it is.

19:49

scattered bits around that week too iirc.

19:51

hey BingoBoingo are you ready to birth formal quotes ?

19:51

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779082 << a cool. can't do this from here, so will be weekendish. but the important details are missing, such as what software did you eventually pick to manage your cloud and so on.

19:51

Logged on 2018-02-01 14:20 BingoBoingo: !~later tell mircea_popescu Qntra.net online at 161.0.121.253 pls to get the domain repointed, ISP statement incoming.

19:51

i hope we don

19:51

aren;t looking at a case where qntra is alone on a box ? qntra can't afford such luxuries by itself.

19:54

BingoBoingo: iirc the ip is temporary ? ( the proper block of ips not yet obtained ? )

19:59

<+mp_en_viaje> BingoBoingo, seriouasly, form the mental habit. pics and blog. << Hey all good as long as you don't take pics of the foundations boxen.

19:59

really ?

19:59

wainot , mod6 ?

19:59

don't be ashamed of the old microvax, lol

19:59

or whatever it is.

19:59

I'm a private kinda guy.

20:00

We have a /26 to fill in very.legit.manner and short order before LACNIC will assign a /24 because of scarcity. LACNIC's response to my first application: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xW6LS/?raw=true

20:00

Needless to say I will be spinning up plenty of virtual boxen and testing cloud platforms

20:00

i dunget, why 'you are not operating', 'do not have an active connection with a provider'

20:01

you have both nao

20:01

or is this from before BingoBoingo got the keys to the cage

20:01

asciilifeform: From before I got the keys

20:01

aa

20:01

http://qntra.net/2018/02/online-again/#comment-109942 << awaiting moderation lelz.

20:01

BingoBoingo: write'em again

20:02

mod6, aite. bbisp lives to please its cusomter.

20:02

but let's not let the praise fall by the wayside just because every successful step opens up so more further steps : nice bb! qntra back on huh!

20:02

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING!

20:03

asciilifeform, nothing wrong with giving it a little time ; his plan is sound, spin up some shit first.

20:04

asciilifeform: They are getting wrote back after I fill ALL the ips. Hopefully this weekend

20:04

*

mp_en_viaje is amused reborn qntra's first comment is from liek, bogota, columbia. history in the makings!

20:04

Has to look very.legit.interwebz

20:04

http://qntra.net/2018/02/online-again/#comment-109942 << And it is approved!

20:05

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779111 << word.

20:05

Logged on 2018-02-01 15:57 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: be sure to use trb with sync sanity, cuts sync time from 6+months to coupla weeks at worst

20:07

I may end up buying a consumer tower box to throw in the cage for a photo session and burn more ips.

20:09

why nit.

20:09

not*

20:09

BingoBoingo: pogo!11

20:10

asciilifeform: Prolly old beater tower. Fits in with the neighboring cages, and at the moment we have the space.

20:10

( this is not even entirely in jest: a considerable quantity of pogo could fit in a 2u vertical )

20:10

I though those were all jetisoned in argentina?

20:11

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779163 << the theory is that very smooth, object files can be linked together directly. the testing of this theory is the most valuable part of trying it early.

20:11

Logged on 2018-02-01 21:24 phf: diana_coman: ty, i'll try wiring it in, and keep you posted. i assume ada<>c interop is pretty straightforward, though i won't have a chance to try until later next week. suddenly busy

20:11

last i knew , mp_en_viaje had the complete crate , i dun recall any mention of throwing out

20:11

i still have them

20:11

we also have a pile of them with danielpbarron iirc.

20:11

i even have a couplea left here

20:12

*

BingoBoingo will search local ads for pogos and pogo likes.

20:12

incl. at least 1 with the serial port

20:13

what is the problem that is being approached anyway ? i thought the tower thing was mostly from a "see rack is sized so" / art instllation perspective

20:13

incidentally i also have a working example of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1644 box, which so happens is 1u high and tops my current list of 'pogolike but still in production'

20:14

*

BingoBoingo voy a dormir. All ideas for filling ipv4 space are appreciated. And no, Lacnic has already declared making a bunch of http sites each sitting on its own ip insufficient to declare space exhausted when http vhost can be done.

20:14

mp_en_viaje: there was a thread, while back, re physically-compact, low-wattage machines as a sane alternative to cloudism. can't seem to find it in log

20:15

BingoBoingo, laters.

20:15

goodnight BingoBoingo

20:15

<asciilifeform> mp_en_viaje: there was a thread, while back, re physically-compact, low-wattage machines as a sane alternative to cloudism. can't seem to find it in log << The 8 PCengines to 1U recipe would still be appreciated. Especially if someone can bake them and move them... ( danielpbarron?)

20:16

BingoBoingo: gn! good job getting that stuff up and going.

20:16

anyway ; i am still waiting for my http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-28#1777538 aswer

20:16

Logged on 2018-01-28 00:34 mircea_popescu: if i want 5 boxes, what do i do now ?

20:16

I may yet reconsider on the pictures thing.

20:16

this is the priority nao, get the rack filled proper with actualy used and useful boxen, not bogged down with scar tissue

20:16

mod6, buncha girls did not get appreciably damaged from having numbers on their tits...

20:17

tit not remotely exploitable. :D

20:17

if your box is remotely exploitable by photograph...

20:17

but be that as it may : emmylark is remotely exploited currently. evidently exploitABLE.

20:18

tyvm for the well wishes, congratulations, and continuing instructions.

20:18

yeee. keep your cool, most common moment for things to be fucked up is upon first success.

20:21

and with this ill bl!

20:23

<+mp_en_viaje> if your box is remotely exploitable by photograph... << Well, thinking it all the way through, I guess it's a bit over the top. My first, kneejerk reaction is "fuck that. no pics." But ya, that may be silly.

20:23

It's non-critical infrastructure. And would probably help BBISP, more than it would hurt the foundation, even if exploited.

20:24

mod6: try as i might, i can't picture how a photo would help to exploit yer box ( aside from the 'tells enemy which rack to dynamite' aspect, but mp_en_viaje addressed that one earlier )

20:25

Thinking clever person & log reader could discern which box belongs to whom by process of elimiation. Then depending on make/models, could try to dig up exploits.

20:25

naively could say something like 'it's a dell 1950, and obummer will know to send the dell 1950 magicpacket' but consider, he will send all possible magicks anyway, because wainot

20:26

aha. so thats why i came to "silly" conclusion. they'll just send 'em anyway so w/e.

20:26

*

mod6 is paranoid!

20:27

picture yourself in enemy's position; when would you want to steal 1 box, but not e.g. 20 ?

20:27

As enemy, I may want 'em all, but I'd take one if I could.

20:29

why would he limit to 1 ? what, it has to be carried out under his coat??

20:29

if can steal 1, can just as readily cart away entire orchestra, neh

20:29

wait, are you talking "physically steal a box" ?

20:29

aha. recall, there was at least 1 occasion of trilema server growing legs and walking away

20:30

well, yeah, i didn't mean physically, i meant "remotely pwn"

20:30

annnnyway, this is probably nonsense. carry on!

20:31

hey i was curious re whether the hypothetical can be made to make sense

20:31

so, i've heard like nasty things about some of these boxes with like the lights out management thing, and whatever.

20:32

mod6: these are only a problem when plugged in

20:32

( on every box i know of , it's a separate jack )

20:32

no particular reason why you'd leave this item plugged in, afaik

20:32

yeah, I don't think ours will even have that anyway. BUT, the point stand that, I didn't build it; who knows what nasty pitfalls are in there.

20:33

anyway, this is probably nonsense.

20:34

if it e.g. sends random page of ram as a coded dns packet every full moon, it will do this regardless of whether anyone photographed it, lol

20:34

hahah, fair enough asciilifeform

20:35

and besides, what if i AM embarssed about our packerd bell 1U boxes?

20:36

(i don't really care, just sayin')

20:36

lol

20:39

this may be an asinine thread i started here, but i'd rather be thinking this way - defensive, even if asinine, and then think/talk it out.

20:40

im not sure if that was english.

20:42

my first inclination is to cut down as many attack vectors as possible. real or imagined. the imaginary ones can be rooted out through a bit of thinking / conversation with intelligent folks.

20:44

apologies for the disruption. carry on!

20:49

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779288 << ftr there are two methods for this; depending on which lang the 'main' procedure was written in. see also https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gnat_ugn/Interfacing-to-C.html , has example of each.

20:49

Logged on 2018-02-02 01:11 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-01#1779163 << the theory is that very smooth, object files can be linked together directly. the testing of this theory is the most valuable part of trying it early.

20:53

the 'main is in ada; some imports from c' variant is also illustrated in ffa, in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc/tree/ffa/ffacalc/cmdline.ads

20:55

and http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc/tree/ffa/ffacalc/os.ads

20:55

^ for reasons unknown to me, ada's standard character i/o routines mutilate newlines. so ffacalc imports the standard unixland ones.

21:05

( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686859 and elsewhere )

21:05

Logged on 2017-07-19 19:00 asciilifeform: i have 'p' structured such that all it wants i/o-wise is a 'getbyte' and 'putbyte' that operator can replace with whatever

21:07

technically it wants ~three~ ttys, one for normal i/o, one for eggogs, one for rng

21:07

this is pertinent when on a microcontroller.

21:12

under linux, can do as follows for e.g. libc-less stdio speaking,

21:13