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search trilema search all chans

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00:02	mjr___	well, some progress made
00:02	mjr___	if anyone feels like watching my bumbling progress, http://54.214.31.74/
00:03	mjr___	this so far only has mongo and nodejs working
00:04	mjr___	and not in the best way yet
00:05	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.199989 BTC [-]
00:06	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.199999 BTC [+]
00:06	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2 = 2.4 BTC [+]
00:07	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.0125 = 0.3125 BTC
00:07	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2 BTC [+]
00:07	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]
00:09	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2 = 2.4 BTC [-]
00:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]
00:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2 = 2.4 BTC [-]
00:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0125 = 0.025 BTC
00:12	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]
00:12	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2 = 2.4 BTC [-]
00:12	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.222 = 2.444 BTC [+]
00:12	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2222 = 2.4444 BTC [+]
00:12	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22222 = 2.4444 BTC [+]
00:12	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 1.222222 = 4.8889 BTC [+]
00:14	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 1.99999999 = 4 BTC [-]
00:19	mjr___	if anyone else is looking, order updates don't work yet
00:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.18 = 2.36 BTC [-]
00:20	mod6	lol, sorry if I deleted that first one. I didn't know that [X] would do that.
00:20	mod6	I added another one as "Testing" or whatever. hehe. my bad.
00:21	mjr___	its all good
00:21	mjr___	thanks for helping me test
00:21	mjr___	feel free to play around
00:21	mjr___	i don't mind
00:21	mod6	And so far the Edit button gives a stack trace.
00:21	mjr___	right now i am getting basic functionality up and running
00:21	mjr___	yes, it does
00:21	mod6	I just thought I'd take a look, I saw you talkin about it earlier.
00:21	mjr___	this is the most basic version
00:22	mjr___	next i split into bids and asks
00:22	mjr___	get socket.io running
00:22	mjr___	so that all changes happen in real time
00:22	mod6	Cool. I hear you, gotta get some time to see what works inititally, etc.
00:22	mjr___	and then put in an angular front end
00:22	mjr___	yeah, but it doesn't make a difference
00:22	mjr___	i am using nodemon
00:22	mjr___	so all my changes auto update
00:23	mod6	I've been doing a bunch of programming on BitOTTer (android) today, thats been awesome. I'm excited to do some debugging tonight :)
00:23	mjr___	this is the blessing and curse of using other peoples shit
00:23	mjr___	i've got a lot of stuff working pretty quickly
00:23	mjr___	but finding out where the error is will take more time i think
00:23	thestringpuller	;;calc 65000/240
00:23	gribble	270.833333333
00:23	mjr___	feel free to check out the github
00:23	mod6	cool thanks!
00:23	thestringpuller	200 mhs per avalon chip huh
00:23	mjr___	https://github.com/joshuarossi/buttonwood
00:24	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.18 BTC [-]
00:24	mjr___	and i also need to add an entire user system...geez, this is kinda a long process
00:26	mod6	HEH
00:26	mod6	Yeah it doesn't write it self.
00:26	mod6	*itself.
00:26	mjr___	https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ZviIIaT7_kZ0VDNkJtSnljZms/edit?usp=sharing this is an old design of mine, and roughly what it should look like when done
00:26	mod6	but all good things in time... as they say.
00:27	mjr___	well, i am trying to do a hackathon attempt
00:27	mjr___	to have this up by monday
00:27	mjr___	and i have a rough wirefram mockup too...http://imgur.com/nu1YoOh
00:28	mjr___	rough idea is, people show up and can easily update their orders pretty much in real time
00:28	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.0125 = 0.0375 BTC
00:28	mjr___	i built that first example but it didn't have all the backend functionality i wanted
00:29	mjr___	so...back to work, feel free to play around, you should see new features popping up
00:29	mod6	aight cool.
00:29	thestringpuller	;;bc,stats
00:29	gribble	Current Blocks: 234576 | Current Difficulty: 1.0076292883418716E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 235871 | Next Difficulty In: 1295 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 19 hours, 25 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10106951.7269 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.30427
00:29	mjr___	http://thecodebarbarian.wordpress.com/ this is somewhat of a rough guide to the design philosophy
00:41	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00069101 = 3.3168 BTC [+]
00:54	thestringpuller	;;next
00:54	gribble	targets: 120-123, 130 | updated by OneFixt at May 5 2013, 01:55 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/139er6E | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 2 hours, 59 minutes, and 1 second ago
00:54	inhies	weeee
00:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.0125 = 0.0375 BTC
00:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 13 @ 0.012525 = 0.1628 BTC [+]
		~ 30 minutes ~
01:29	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.199111 BTC [+]
01:36	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 18 @ 1.199111 = 21.584 BTC [+]
01:36	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2 = 2.4 BTC [+]
01:36	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 1.2199 = 8.5393 BTC [+]
01:39	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2199 BTC [+]
01:40	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.3198 BTC [+]
		~ 18 minutes ~
01:58	tiberiusiv	;;asks 200
01:58	gribble	There are currently 111426.94 bitcoins offered at or under 200.0 USD, worth 16740305.7552 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0081 seconds
01:58	tiberiusiv	;;bids 50
01:58	gribble	There are currently 149240.03 bitcoins demanded at or over 50.0 USD, worth 11268523.4082 USD in total. | Data vintage: 6.1148 seconds
02:00	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8426 @ 0.00069101 = 5.8225 BTC [+]
02:01	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2199 = 2.4398 BTC [+]
02:03	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.012525 = 0.0626 BTC [+]
02:11	inhies	well
02:11	inhies	this looks interesting
02:11	inhies	http://www.fixprotocol.org/
02:25	ardeay_	;;ticker
02:25	gribble	BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 116.70180, Best ask: 117.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.29820, Last trade: 117.00000, 24 hour volume: 135072.13898755, 24 hour low: 96.91162, 24 hour high: 118.85000, 24 hour vwap: 109.31377
02:35	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 32 @ 0.012525 = 0.4008 BTC [+]
02:36	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 57 @ 0.01255 = 0.7154 BTC [+]
02:45	Chaang-Noi	http://qz.com/79651/google-just-launched-its-own-payment-card/
02:45	Chaang-Noi	http://google-africa.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/bebapay-launching-electronic-payments.html
02:45	Chaang-Noi	hmm google has its own btc, hmmm
02:47	tiberiusiv	thats a debit card
02:47	tiberiusiv	from a bank
02:47	Chaang-Noi	google is a bank now?
02:49	tiberiusiv	no you cant read?
02:49	tiberiusiv	they use a partner bank
02:49	tiberiusiv	fking idiot
02:50	tiberiusiv	http://www.equitybank.co.ke/
02:50	tiberiusiv	this is where the funds are held. its just a prepaid debit card service
02:50	tiberiusiv	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
02:50	tiberiusiv	this is probably a more direct bitcoin competitor in africa
02:52	tiberiusiv	mpesa has more users then bitcoin
02:57	Chaang-Noi	oh tiberslav, :)
02:57	Chaang-Noi	its not even fun trolling you
03:05	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.13001 BTC [-]
03:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5974 @ 0.00069101 = 4.1281 BTC [+]
03:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226 @ 0.00069491 = 0.157 BTC [+]
03:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1502 @ 0.00068877 = 1.0345 BTC [-]
03:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10719 @ 0.00068835 = 7.3784 BTC [-]
		~ 24 minutes ~
03:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3763 @ 0.00069491 = 2.6149 BTC [+]
03:40	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 39 @ 0.01255 = 0.4895 BTC [+]
03:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.01255 = 0.3514 BTC [+]
03:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00069491 = 9.1033 BTC [+]
03:55	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.13001 BTC [-]
03:57	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.108899 = 0.2178 BTC [+]
		~ 41 minutes ~
04:39	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.219 BTC [-]
04:40	Chaang-Noi	hey MP https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg2032349#msg2032349
04:40	Chaang-Noi	think that could be the finish guy?
04:40	wao	hm
04:40	wao	why not
04:44	mircea_popescu	nah. not at all the same facial features.
04:45	mircea_popescu	the camwhore pic is lol tho
04:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 7 @ 0.410001 = 2.87 BTC [+]
04:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.41 BTC [-]
04:47	Chaang-Noi	i kinda doubt it as well, but man, it would explain a few things:)
04:48	assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.4005 = 0.801 BTC [-]
04:50	mircea_popescu	well yeah. nevertheles...
04:50	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.22701 = 0.454 BTC [+]
04:50	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.227 BTC [-]
04:50	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.2263 = 0.4526 BTC [-]
04:50	mircea_popescu	no, i'm pretty sure this is a young guy with a little money/ a business who discovered btc later than us, got real excited, wanted to burn the stages
04:50	mircea_popescu	because wtf, why listen to mpoe-pr, she's a woman.
04:51	Chaang-Noi	i think he likes you honestly
04:51	Chaang-Noi	but cant deal with someone who only says insults
04:51	mircea_popescu	i think he dislikes me but would like my approval.
04:51	Chaang-Noi	she really for the most part does not do anything but show how trash she is
04:52	Chaang-Noi	she can not attack people with wit or class
04:52	Chaang-Noi	insults only go so far
04:52	mircea_popescu	have you seen the latest ?
04:52	Chaang-Noi	she can have good posts if she is objective and not attacking a person or idea
04:52	Chaang-Noi	i doubt it, im just talking about over the last 2 eyars or whatever
04:53	Chaang-Noi	any one here want 10,000 ltc for 309 or so btc?
04:53	mircea_popescu	lemme see this, i lolled.
04:53	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.01255 BTC [+]
04:53	Chaang-Noi	shec an have good posts, but on average she does more harm than good
04:54	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.22632 BTC [+]
04:54	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.22631 = 0.4526 BTC [-]
04:54	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 12 @ 0.2263 = 2.7156 BTC [-]
04:54	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195110.msg2031276#msg2031276
04:55	mircea_popescu	she's actually better at the wit & class takedowns imo
04:55	mircea_popescu	it's just on the forum she rarely has any opportunity to.
04:57	Chaang-Noi	well these three people are clearly idots
04:57	Chaang-Noi	i avoid the whole economic subsection as 985 of the people who post there are idots
04:57	Chaang-Noi	the real people who understand, are doing shit...
04:57	Chaang-Noi	like in the assets subsection
04:58	truff1es	<Chaang-Noi> she can have good posts if she is objective and not attacking a person or idea>>> sounds like mircea_popescu
04:58	mircea_popescu	she rarely if ever goes after people who actually do something afaik.
04:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 3 @ 0.13011 = 0.3903 BTC [+]
04:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 3 @ 0.12501 = 0.375 BTC [-]
04:59	Chaang-Noi	she was after me for months about my mining operation claiming it was a scam cuz no photos. i told her three times the link to the photos wherein the op of the thread
04:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.125001 BTC [-]
04:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.125 = 0.625 BTC [-]
05:00	Chaang-Noi	she has improved ill give you that but her last attack on reptillia man seems kinda lame
05:00	Chaang-Noi	seemed
05:01	Chaang-Noi	as crazy as it sounds, the repillia guy might be right and we hit, $300,000 a btc by new years
05:01	Chaang-Noi	i think he is nuts but it should be expressed with something other than an insult
05:01	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.13012 BTC [+]
05:02	truff1es	you cant really teach someone how to express themselves :)
05:02	truff1es	oh wait u can but..
05:02	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.1001 BTC [-]
05:03	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.1 BTC [-]
05:03	mircea_popescu	so go do it lol.
05:04	Chaang-Noi	that sell to that repitilla guys has made my portfolio out of balance, i have more cash on hand than i want in thailand...
05:04	Chaang-Noi	i dont trust the banks
05:05	Chaang-Noi	the only way i see getting it out of thailand is buying back btc
05:05	truff1es	Chaang-Noi you made a legit transaction with repitilla?
05:05	Chaang-Noi	yeah
05:05	Chaang-Noi	well 1/2 of one
05:05	truff1es	oh my
05:05	Chaang-Noi	he wired me 2.65 million baht
05:05	truff1es	so he is for real
05:05	Chaang-Noi	well, he at one point had 2.65 million bhat
05:05	Chaang-Noi	but i would say yes
05:06	Chaang-Noi	he is a bit delusional but id say he is real
05:06	Chaang-Noi	well more than a bit
05:06	truff1es	its the kind of mind that believes bitcoin with go up up up
05:06	Chaang-Noi	yeah and he joined the bull market a bit too late
05:07	Chaang-Noi	$72 is his lowest buy in i think
05:07	Chaang-Noi	clearly he bought from me at 133 or so
05:07	Chaang-Noi	i dont know if higher or not
05:07	truff1es	he's doing well for himself regardless
05:08	Chaang-Noi	he claims to ahve 10,000 oz of silver
05:08	Chaang-Noi	im a silver bug and i dont even have that much silver
05:09	mircea_popescu	what's that, like 300 btc's worth ?
05:10	Chaang-Noi	$240,000 usd
05:10	Chaang-Noi	well more than that
05:10	Chaang-Noi	2100 or so btc
05:10	mircea_popescu	aha
05:10	Chaang-Noi	nothing massive, but its still something
05:11	truff1es	pretty massive to me :D
05:12	mircea_popescu	ye
05:12	truff1es	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEYLBKAPYeI
05:13	truff1es	thats a real showoff
05:13	Chaang-Noi	lol
05:13	Chaang-Noi	i have a 1000 oz bar....
05:14	truff1es	i was expecting to see the bar not a summary
05:14	Chaang-Noi	i dont have photos of my silver
05:15	Chaang-Noi	honestly half of it iv never even seen
05:16	truff1es	http://www.jeremyjacobs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1000oz.silver.bullion.bar_.underneath.jpg
05:17	truff1es	the gold bar looks like chocolate to me ..
05:17	Chaang-Noi	mine is only 970ish oz but its a comex bar, they call it 1000oz bars.
05:18	mircea_popescu	if anyone cares, seems the lme is moving to hk
05:19	Chaang-Noi	does not really effect me
05:19	Chaang-Noi	but really, its logical
05:24	truff1es	just realized the name is rpietila not repitilla..
05:24	Chaang-Noi	:)
05:33	truff1es	is there a tldr of the rpietila diary?
05:37	Chaang-Noi	he is a nutter who odds are is on coke/weed and thin\ks btw will be 1 million usd by christmas
05:37	Chaang-Noi	he is also having a conferance in finland where everyone is forced to wear top hats and drive in limos
05:37	truff1es	hehe
05:37	Chaang-Noi	otehr than looking fancy they are going to try to set up a "super node" dealership network
05:37	Chaang-Noi	however no one is going cuz lack of plaaning and it being too soon
05:37	Chaang-Noi	mp did that pretty much cover it?
05:37	truff1es	so he should do another next yr
05:37	Chaang-Noi	i might have left something out, been a lot of lulz
05:37	mircea_popescu	lol i had no idea about the top hats
05:37	Chaang-Noi	well... im not sure what he wants to accomplish
05:37	mircea_popescu	bwahahaha
05:37	Chaang-Noi	mp well they are not forced to wear top hats but he did get a limo and the point is to be a show off
05:37	Chaang-Noi	i did exagerate that a bit
05:37	truff1es	"There are now 6 paid admissions to the summit, and all of them are for a physical stay."
05:37	Chaang-Noi	but it just seemed fitting for the style he is going for
05:37	Chaang-Noi	the first 3 qare his staff
05:37	Chaang-Noi	so really only 3
05:37	Chaang-Noi	and they are all new people who are in the area who want to learn more about btc
05:37	Chaang-Noi	i dont think they are "super nodes"
05:38	truff1es	seems perfect for someone like mircea_popescu
05:39	truff1es	a place to showoff and show how much they know than everyone else :p
05:40	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.22631 BTC [+]
05:40	assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 9 @ 0.2263 = 2.0367 BTC [-]
05:40	mircea_popescu	yeah. so weird tho, americans are really uncomfortable showing off.
05:42	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 1.219 = 4.876 BTC [-]
05:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.219 = 2.438 BTC [-]
05:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 18 @ 0.01255 = 0.2259 BTC [+]
05:43	mircea_popescu	what's a node anyway.
05:44	truff1es	node Noun
05:44	truff1es	A point at which lines or pathways intersect or branch; a central or connecting point.
05:44	truff1es	A piece of equipment, such as a PC or peripheral, attached to a network.
05:44	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192122.msg2030167#msg2030167 lmao
05:44	truff1es	seems like rpietila aims to make btc an exclusive thing, dont like
05:49	truff1es	(Without almost a single exception) every time I read MPOE-PR, I think, "but he cannot be, if he actually pays for this shit to be posted in his name". >>> sick burn
05:49	Chaang-Noi	inaba is about as good with pr as your girl...
05:52	mircea_popescu	lol
05:52	mircea_popescu	not really.
05:52	mircea_popescu	actually i don't know anyone nearly as good as her on those forums.
05:52	Chaang-Noi	for pr?
05:52	mircea_popescu	perhaps gavin, but only on the condition that he keeps quiet a lot on most issues.
		↖
05:52	mircea_popescu	yes for pr.
05:53	Chaang-Noi	well to each thier own, imo they both do more hard to the image of the company they work for
05:53	Chaang-Noi	harm*
05:53	mircea_popescu	pr is about communication, you must be confusing it with advertising ?
05:54	Chaang-Noi	public relations, yes clearly there is communication, but you communicate ideas, the ideas she communicates are not what i would considrer to be good
05:54	Chaang-Noi	inaba same
05:55	Chaang-Noi	as in not good for the image of the company she represents and is speaking for
05:55	Chaang-Noi	when she has the PR tag she is your face to the world
05:56	Chaang-Noi	people see her, and judge you and your company
05:56	mircea_popescu	yeah. exactly.
05:56	mircea_popescu	the difference here would be that inaba never gave a strauight answer, has been caught lieing etc.
05:56	Chaang-Noi	they dont take her siourly, and so they dont take you either
05:57	mircea_popescu	mpoe-pr has given nothing but straight answers, and has alweays been right.
05:57	truff1es	Chaang-Noi have u read trilema, they dont care lol
05:57	mircea_popescu	seems to me quite a difference there.
05:57	mircea_popescu	i beg to differ.
05:57	Chaang-Noi	yes there is a differance between her and inaba, but just cuz inaba is fail does not mean your pr girl is good
05:57	mircea_popescu	she's probably the only one there taken quite seriously.
05:57	Chaang-Noi	by whom?
05:57	Chaang-Noi	she is one of the mostly highly ignored people
05:57	mircea_popescu	everyone. when she drops the shoe the entire dev team gets cracking for one.
05:57	cads	mircea_popescu: re. the showing off, I've often wondered about that myself.
05:57	mircea_popescu	eh right, like that matters.
05:58	mircea_popescu	cads aha ?
05:58	Chaang-Noi	placing someone on ignore does not = respect
05:58	Chaang-Noi	but what truffles said, it does seem you guys just dont give a fuck
05:59	truff1es	yea mp take me off ignore!
05:59	cads	In america, when someone shows off they tend to be an asshole. Keeping your cards close to your chest is often a better social move here, because showing off invites open ridicule.
05:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2189 BTC [-]
05:59	mircea_popescu	truffles is of course on my ignore, so yeah.
05:59	cads	From my personal experience, for example, when Romanians show off in front of Americans, at best they tend to be perceived as lovable assholes. The fact that many romanians tend to show off only they can back it with something tangible helps in establishing relationships between americans and romanians, but there is often a secret distaste.
05:59	Chaang-Noi	yeah showing off in thailand is so much different than showing off in the usa
05:59	mircea_popescu	cads where's the romanians spring up from ?!
06:00	cads	I'm romanian, hah
06:00	mircea_popescu	a lol ok.
06:00	Chaang-Noi	wow 2/3rd of this conversation is romainian :)
06:00	mircea_popescu	anyway, the problem is mistaken socialisation. the average american can not simply go talk to a woman.
06:00	truff1es	"lovable assholes" is there such a thing
06:00	mircea_popescu	they have weirdo protestant issues.
06:01	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.219 BTC [+]
06:01	Chaang-Noi	i ahve no problem with your girl being a girl, that is not it at all lol
06:01	mircea_popescu	no, we were discussing his showoff thing.
06:01	Chaang-Noi	inaba?
06:01	mircea_popescu	i thought the mpoe-pr discussion is over, as in, sigh.
06:01	Chaang-Noi	reptilla?
06:01	truff1es	they switched topics
06:01	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]
06:01	mircea_popescu	are you ignoring cads or something ?
06:02	cads	mircea_popescu: yep. And they're also very guarded about their real capabilities, so for example, whereas a romanian might be happy to brag about how little he payed on a car if you ask, asking an american the same question is often a faux pas.
06:02	truff1es	romanians showing off = lovable assholes
06:02	Chaang-Noi	im multy tasking, sorry, im sure the fail is on my end
06:02	mircea_popescu	eh faux pas my foot.
06:03	mircea_popescu	i submit that taking this retarded childrengarten bullshit into consideration is empowering the mental disease.
06:03	mircea_popescu	it's not a faux pas and if johnny thinks so let him go in a corner and sulk
06:03	Chaang-Noi	in thailand if you ahve money you are expected to show off
06:03	Chaang-Noi	people pay 4 times the normal price of a car (cuz taxes) just so they can show off
06:04	mircea_popescu	lol
06:04	cads	hehe
06:04	cads	nice!
06:04	Chaang-Noi	people respect things ehre more than people and idea
06:04	mircea_popescu	nobody can just be normal it seems ;/
06:04	Chaang-Noi	its not how smart your brain is, but how smart you are dressed that matters
06:04	truff1es	Chaang-Noi ask mp to define normal
06:05	Chaang-Noi	mp truffles wants to know what "normal" means
06:06	cads	mircea_popescu: for salaried upper middle class workers in romania, what is the normal attitude towards revealing their exact salary figure to their coworkers?
06:07	Chaang-Noi	ah wage slaves
06:07	mircea_popescu	cads i have no idea tbh.
06:07	Diablo-D3	!ticker
06:07	assbot	Are you sure you have no tobacco?
06:07	Diablo-D3	;;ticker
06:07	gribble	BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 108.96000, Best ask: 108.97164, Bid-ask spread: 0.01164, Last trade: 108.97164, 24 hour volume: 138012.31532447, 24 hour low: 100.00000, 24 hour high: 118.85000, 24 hour vwap: 110.86925
06:07	cads	Say I receive $100K a year, and I suspect that this is $20K more than the rest of my coworkers in the same position as me, because I'm more skilled. Would it be something I'd brag about?
06:09	Chaang-Noi	i dont think mp knows many wage slaves
06:10	cads	hehe, perhaps not
06:10	mircea_popescu	yeah i tend to not hire romanians
06:11	mircea_popescu	anyway, as far as salaries go about 7k a year pre tax would be an average salary.
06:11	mircea_popescu	i don't see where exactly you'd be making 100k a year and have coworkers in the same office making 80.
06:12	mircea_popescu	senior tv execs working for the main network make 15 or some shit
06:13	Chaang-Noi	do most people speak english in romania?
06:13	Chaang-Noi	sounds like a fun place to visit
06:13	mircea_popescu	senior corporate officers in state entreprises make something like 15-20k and they're talking of introducing a tax just for them to lower that.
06:13	cads	mircea_popescu: this is common here in upper management in mid to large scale businesses. My understanding is that when the amounts of money are that large, it becomes profitable to remain private about them. People say "I got the raise!" but don't say how much the raise was.
06:13	mircea_popescu	Chaang-Noi the younger kids mostly do, about half pretty well about half so-so
06:13	mircea_popescu	the older folks mostly don't.
06:13	Chaang-Noi	cool
06:14	Chaang-Noi	if i make it to europe ill stop by
06:14	mircea_popescu	cads you know i'm perfectly aware who makes what where
06:15	mircea_popescu	"Can Facebook lead to psychosis? One study says so" win.
06:15	cads	hah, charming
06:16	mircea_popescu	where are you anyway, canada ?
06:16	cads	Atlanta
06:16	cads	You? Bucharest?
06:17	mircea_popescu	timisoara atm
06:23	truff1es	<Chaang-Noi> mp truffles wants to know what "normal" means >>> thanks, achieved the goal even if ignored :)
06:23	Chaang-Noi	can you hunt brown bears?
06:31	truff1es	i think so
06:33	cads	Chaang-Noi: are you from thailand?
06:33	cads	hehe, truffles, are you just used to people ignoring you?
06:33	truff1es	<cads> hehe, truffles, are you just used to people ignoring you?>>no just assholes
06:33	truff1es	irl i dont purposely go into the same space as an asshole, but on the internet most ppl are so its a moot point
06:34	assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 40 @ 0.00318 = 0.1272 BTC [-]
06:35	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.1079 = 0.2158 BTC [-]
06:42	cads	truff1es: I mean, some people are so incoherent in their opinions that I get the distinct feeling that I'm _stupider_ after arguing with them, and if these people consistently attack my positions with poor argument tactics, then I have little to gain from them in way of exchange of ideas, and I ignore them.
06:43	truff1es	hmmmm
06:43	truff1es	then u ask for clarification
06:43	truff1es	information is what you make of it
06:44	cads	truff1es: information from a random variable is what you make of it, true, but if the variable is too random, it's impossible to make knowledge from it, however hard you try :D
06:44	truff1es	hence why its best to seek clarification
06:45	truff1es	cant really do that through ignore
06:47	cads	truffles, lets put it this way. Consider you talk to 10 people online, and you know that 9 of those people tend to say things that you fine useful, some of the time. But now imagine that the 10th person not only says things that are useless, they also try to mislead you, and they drown out the reasonable words of the other 9 people.
06:47	cads	And suppose that after extensive attempts at asking for clarification, the person continues to demonstrate that they do not have your interest in mind - they continue to BS you, and what's worse, arguing with them makes you look like a fool in front of the other 9 people.
06:48	truff1es	they also try to mislead you, and they drown out the reasonable words of the other 9 people.>>> this needs clarification
06:50	cads	truff1es: sure, let me clarify with an example. 9 people are decent people interested in talking about the topic, and the 10th person is just a troll, interested in ridiculing anyone that gives them attention. Say they are flooding the channel, and there are no ops, and you're being distracted from your other 9 contemporaries.
06:50	truff1es	ok.. but id assume spam gets boot
06:51	cads	would you not ignore the offensive charachter? Or would you force yourself to take cognitive loss, and manually take the time filter out the useless chatter?
06:52	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 100 @ 0.01 = 1 BTC [-]
06:52	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 100 @ 0.01 = 1 BTC [-]
06:52	cads	truff1es: giving yourself a cognitive advantage by ignoring the poor information source is a good strategy in these situations - it's not weakness, it's prudence.
06:52	truff1es	i would disagree that although these 9 people are coherent it does not imply they hold your best interest, information is for me to filter so i wouldnt see the need to ignore..
06:53	mircea_popescu	cads http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/my-background-cliffsnotes/
06:53	mircea_popescu	there, you're responsible.
06:53	cads	oh dear god, for what?
06:54	cads	oh what have I done :D
06:55	mircea_popescu	lol
06:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00131 BTC [-]
06:56	cads	hehe, truff1es I hear what you're saying, but surely even you draw limits at a certain point: consider, one may choose not hang out on 4chan. This is the same as ignoring every single member of 4chan. If you believe you have the capacity to filter out all information by directly reading it, then why aren't you plugged into every chat in the world, filtering?
06:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.0013 BTC [-]
06:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 17 @ 0.00122 = 0.0207 BTC [-]
06:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 50 @ 0.001211 = 0.0606 BTC [-]
06:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 240 @ 0.01 = 2.4 BTC [-]
06:57	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 833 @ 0.0012 = 0.9996 BTC [-]
06:57	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 2 @ 0.01003 = 0.0201 BTC [+]
06:57	cads	that was uncharitable, but I hope you get my drift - ignoring someone is just one of the many ways of filtering your information input
06:57	truff1es	i like to read but you have to learn to skim :p
06:58	cads	I believe that you simply assign a negative emotional connotation towards it because you've been at the blunt end of an ignore or two, and you know how much that stings
06:58	truff1es	i havent been on irc in a while afaik i dont get ignored much
06:59	truff1es	mp is just an asshole and ran from a debate imo
07:00	truff1es	filtering is a philosophy not based on emotional reactions..
07:01	cads	I would agree there
07:02	truff1es	ure trying to say that because i mightve been ignored in the past, i take this postion, it would be so regardless
07:02	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 4 @ 0.015999 = 0.064 BTC [-]
07:02	cads	nah, I think I may have made a red herring there
07:03	cads	truff1es: also, it occurs to me that leaving a chat room is not the same as ignoring everyone in that chat room. Information is not symmetric, in the latter case.
07:03	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19794 BTC [+]
07:04	truff1es	can you restate that
07:05	cads	truff1es: If I ignore someone in a chat, they can still see what I'm saying. So it's not the same thing as leaving the chat. Ignore can be used to assert a sort of dominance.
07:06	truff1es	heh
07:06	truff1es	mp tries
07:07	cads	truff1es: In other words, ignore actually can be used as an asshole strategy. is that part of your argument against the desirability of ignore?
07:07	cads	I would argue that I have used ignore judiciously many times... but I'd also admit that I've used it a few times in a mean spirit.
07:08	cads	*shrug*, in any case, we could philosophize about this all day
07:08	truff1es	yep
07:08	cads	any closing words?
07:08	cads	it's time to cook some breakfast and get started with the day here :D
07:08	truff1es	do whats best for you..
07:09	mircea_popescu	now you know why he's on my ignore.
07:09	truff1es	enjoy
07:09	mircea_popescu	there's plenty of fucking support channels for people with emo issues. this happens to be the bitcoin assets chan.
07:09	mircea_popescu	he has no assets and so doesn't really belong.
07:10	truff1es	*rolls eyes*
07:11	cads	haha, mircea_popescu, and what assets have I? Besides my charming good looks, which are hardly fungible ;)
07:12	mircea_popescu	it's a start.
07:12	cads	I guess maybe the only claim to legitimacy I have is that I'm genuinely interested in understanding assets
07:13	truff1es	so am i ..
07:24	cads	truff1es: good deal. as long as we remain teachable, life is pretty good, I find
07:25	cads	just.. don't learn any lessons that are not profitable
07:25	truff1es	i dont live to make just profits
07:26	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.01255 = 0.0251 BTC [+]
07:26	truff1es	everything is a learning experince including our discussion
07:26	truff1es	to me
07:28	truff1es	im here because its part of the bitcoins sphere, which is currently my interest
07:28	truff1es	i think thats what u wanted to know
07:28	Chaaang-Noi	piratebay now accepts litecoins :)
07:29	truff1es	u dont have to use a mirror Chaaang-Noi?
07:30	Chaaang-Noi	what?
07:30	truff1es	piratebay mirror site
07:30	Chaaang-Noi	to send them ltcs?
07:30	Chaaang-Noi	piratebay.sx
07:30	truff1es	unrelated
07:30	Chaaang-Noi	but no, to send ltc you dont need a mirror, that is not how litecoin owrks
07:30	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 21 @ 0.01255 = 0.2636 BTC [+]
07:31	truff1es	ok. was asking a broad question
07:32	truff1es	thanks, ill be using it more often again
07:33	Chaaang-Noi	then send them some crypto they take btc too
07:34	truff1es	when i get some, not the 1st place i send to
07:34	truff1es	great song on the page
07:42	assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 6 @ 0.4 = 2.4 BTC [-]
07:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.4 BTC [-]
07:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.222 = 2.444 BTC [+]
07:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8111 @ 0.00069491 = 5.6364 BTC [+]
07:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1839 @ 0.0006992 = 1.2858 BTC [+]
07:58	Chaaang-Noi	111.111 lol
07:58	Chaaang-Noi	;ticker
07:58	Chaaang-Noi	;;ticker
07:58	gribble	BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 111.10903, Best ask: 112.08978, Bid-ask spread: 0.98075, Last trade: 112.08978, 24 hour volume: 138738.91461295, 24 hour low: 101.10201, 24 hour high: 118.85000, 24 hour vwap: 111.33594
08:00	thestringpuller	Chaaang-Noi: you cool as shit
08:00	thestringpuller	even tho u a bit cray cray
08:01	Chaaang-Noi	lol what?
08:01	Uglux	lol
08:04	thestringpuller	You is living the American Dream in Thailand.
08:04	Chaaang-Noi	yeah
08:04	Chaaang-Noi	life is good
08:05	thestringpuller	life is always good if you are living :P
08:05	thestringpuller	or at least should be
08:05	kakobrekla	sup
08:05	Chaaang-Noi	i hear guantanimo bay sucks
08:05	cads	mircea_popescu, I read your story - quite the adventure, I see. I admire your tenacity and natural talent, while being relieved to see that you do not yet have it "all figured out", which I feel would be boring for you. I wish you continued prosperity and a future that does not cease to provide interesting situations!
08:06	thestringpuller	Okay: life is always good if you are living and not locked up. :P
08:06	mircea_popescu	ha. ty.
08:06	thestringpuller	you are making us atlantians look bad cads
08:06	cads	I'm amazed with the care and attention that romanian schools give to the smart kids - here in america, being bright means being ridiculed
08:06	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 84 @ 0.01255 = 1.0542 BTC [+]
08:06	thestringpuller	cads: We got Ludacris and Outkast tho.
08:06	thestringpuller	And the Braves.
08:07	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.01255 = 1.255 BTC [+]
08:07	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.012575 = 0.6288 BTC [+]
08:07	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 16 @ 0.0126 = 0.2016 BTC [+]
08:07	cads	thestringpuller: and some nice architecture, to boot
08:07	cads	thestringpuller: you are an atlien?
08:07	Chaaang-Noi	where is this story about mp?
08:08	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.2222 = 2.4444 BTC [+]
08:08	thestringpuller	LOL. I live here. But I was born an lived my infancy in da north.
08:08	cads	Chaaang-Noi: repaste is here: http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/my-background-cliffsnotes/
08:08	thestringpuller	I lived her most my life*
08:08	cads	thestringpuller: the real test: do you ever use the word "y'all"
08:08	cads	or the phrase "what had happened was..."
08:08	mircea_popescu	cads well that was some years ago.
08:08	thestringpuller	I is from da burbs though.
08:08	mircea_popescu	but yes, being smart meant you get the blowjobs back then
08:09	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22222 = 2.4444 BTC [+]
08:09	thestringpuller	No. I'm a suburban unfortunately. But my homies is gangsta.
08:09	mircea_popescu	fwiw, i liked atlanta.
08:09	ThickAsThieves	i liked atlanta too
08:09	ThickAsThieves	went there recently
08:09	kakobrekla	trap http://www.rtcons.com/wall/15830.11.png
08:10	ThickAsThieves	some of it reminded me of parts of Boston
08:10	mircea_popescu	looks like a bad geek hairdo
08:10	ThickAsThieves	it's the only metro city i've been to in the southeast that i liked
08:10	cads	mircea_popescu, ThickAsThieves, ty. I love my city, and really, economically, architecturally, culturally, there are only a handful of other american cities that match or exceed it.
08:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 1.222222 = 7.3333 BTC [+]
08:10	cads	at least so I tell myself, lol
08:11	thestringpuller	Atlanta is lame yo. Whatchu talkin' bout cads.
08:11	mircea_popescu	you could do worse. you could be from like... i dunno, mobile ?
08:11	mircea_popescu	la ?
08:11	thestringpuller	We have lame colleges, and lame infrastructure. We just happen to not be as lame as the other places around us.
08:11	mircea_popescu	lame colleges only matter up until you're about 25. then you realise it's a waste of time anyway
08:12	cads	thestringpuller: haha, as a recent college dropout, I can attest to the lame college. As a daily marta rider for the last two years, I can attest to the failing infrastructure.
08:13	thestringpuller	State school kinda suck. It's all public image and no substance.
08:13	thestringpuller	Exactly what mircea_popescu loves.
08:13	thestringpuller	:P
08:13	cads	still, there is something rough, vulgar, and thriving about this city that I don't feel when in, say, pittsburg, or saint louis, or miami
08:13	thestringpuller	That's because so many people come through it.
08:13	thestringpuller	Atlanta is a whore with that airport of hers.
08:14	cads	imo, hating on atlanta and loving on it are the same practice, so anyways, enough loving on atlanta ;)
08:14	thestringpuller	http://mbostock.github.io/d3/talk/20111116/airports.html hover over atlanta
08:15	assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 100 @ 0.003189 = 0.3189 BTC [+]
08:15	mircea_popescu	whoa i had no diea
08:15	mircea_popescu	bigger than ohare even
08:15	cads	oh gosh, the airport... it's like rich white men said, "lets take the poorest sector of the city and put an airport in it. But here's the catch, lets hire _only people from the suburbs, MUAHAHAHA"
08:16	thestringpuller	The only thing more lame than living in Atlanta is Texas.
08:17	mircea_popescu	i loved texas gtfo
08:17	thestringpuller	Have you ever lived there?!?
08:17	thestringpuller	That place is miserable unless you were born in a desert :P
08:17	cads	actually, there's a lot of that 'white privilege' sentiment going on it Atlanta. That, and the narrow religious views, those are the only things I really dislike about my city.
08:18	thestringpuller	cads: not the trend of becoming hipster land
08:18	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller you kidding, all it has are hot blondy bartenders who buy me drinks
08:19	thestringpuller	so does LA but the weather is far superior
08:19	mircea_popescu	meh.
08:19	thestringpuller	It goes over 100 in that Texas/Arizona region
08:20	cads	thestringpuller: one time some black dudes came into my house and beat me and robbed me at gun point. The interrogated me for an hour about where the drugs were (my roommate at the time was a drug dealer - bad fucking choice on my part). In the months after that I found rascist sentiment from around me was taking root in my mind very easily.
08:20	cads	so I decided to hate hipsters instead
08:20	thestringpuller	The only time I've gone to Las Vegas I thought I was going to melt, or at least my shoes.
08:20	cads	I despise rascism as a form of extreme mental weakness
08:20	cads	but then I realized that my new found hate of hipsters was just as bad!
08:21	mircea_popescu	cads wait.
08:21	thestringpuller	dude hipsters suuuuck, they are leftovers from the dot com boom
08:21	mircea_popescu	you KNEW he was dealing ?
08:22	cads	mircea_popescu: worse, I was a customer. He was a pot dealer, nothing serious, but he had a high profile.
08:22	mircea_popescu	well that was pretty retarded, then. what did you think was going to happen ?
08:22	thestringpuller	cads is jesse pinkman
08:23	thestringpuller	lol
08:23	cads	mircea_popescu: I wasn't in a mental state to attempt to compute rational expectations at the time.
08:23	mircea_popescu	i'm envisaging that brad pitt role in true romance
08:23	cads	thestringpuller: haha, minus the meth
08:23	mircea_popescu	incidentally, wasn't that the most adequate role for pitt ever ?
08:24	cads	haha, you're going to think me a philistine, but I've not seen the film, despite being a pitt fan
08:24	mircea_popescu	its not bad.
08:25	mircea_popescu	actually i wonder...
08:25	mircea_popescu	;;google trilema true romance
08:25	gribble	New MPEx key pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/new-mpex-key/>; So what's the plan with MPOE/MPEx ? pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/so-whats-the-plan-with-mpoempex/>; The Trilemma Revised: Harry Potter and a Landscape of Moral ...: <http://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1063&context=poroi>
08:25	mircea_popescu	seems not
08:25	Chaaang-Noi	mp Argentina eh?
08:25	mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/true-romance-tarantino-cut/
08:25	mircea_popescu	dude google is fucking useless
08:25	Chaaang-Noi	i want has visit
08:25	mircea_popescu	Chaaang-Noi bring silver
08:25	Chaaang-Noi	that i can do
08:25	cads	thestringpuller: remember when pinkman is in rehab, convincing others to go back out and use? Yeah, I don't think I was ever that bad off, lol
08:25	Chaaang-Noi	they like dollars as well
08:26	cads	that's just low, lol
08:26	mircea_popescu	Chaaang-Noi its a joke. i think half the world;s silver comes from argentina
08:26	mircea_popescu	hence the motherfuckin' name
08:26	Chaaang-Noi	i know they have hard currancy issues,
08:26	cads	mircea_popescu: aha, another person that notices that google's performance is collapsing under the cascade of data
08:26	Chaaang-Noi	i dont think silver is a bad idea, but dollars from the usa are better
08:26	cads	mircea_popescu: we need another fundamental breakthrough in search engine technology, but soon.
08:27	kakobrekla	i think the problem is gribble aint personalized :)
08:27	mircea_popescu	cads by the time you give it the site title and two words from the page title and it finds two pages on that site w/o the words in them...
08:27	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0126 = 0.126 BTC [+]
08:27	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla you know my browser is anon.
08:27	cads	perhaps an incentive structure that doesn't force the search engine firm to degrade its search quality in return for profits
08:27	kakobrekla	mircea_popescu they only correct way
08:27	mircea_popescu	cads that's only going to happen once we make marketing illegal.
08:28	mircea_popescu	i don't understand why rape is illegal and marketing is not ffs.
08:28	mircea_popescu	the other way around would make for a better world even.
08:30	cads	Haha, trading the maiden-hood for the consumer good.
08:31	cads	you may be right, strictly speaking - the problem is that people have not yet understood that marketing equals coercion
08:31	mircea_popescu	but i mean, what, they put up signs and what, i have to "Deal with it" ?
08:31	mircea_popescu	why doesn't the rape victim "Deal with it" while all the marketing bullshit is punished by 20 to life.
08:32	cads	hah, mircea, for someone with such a pretty mouth you sure are courageous to unleash rape on the world
08:32	cads	legal rape would still be abhorrent
08:33	mircea_popescu	legal marketing is even more abhorrent
08:33	cads	hehe, and pardon my joke
08:33	mircea_popescu	actually ima write this up, the similarities line up all too well.
08:36	cads	mircea_popescu: I would be forced to agree, though in your writeup consider that you are a parent with a daughter. You live in a world where the collapse of the viability of marketing strategies has lead to an unprecedented increase in the productivity and quality of life, on average. And all that you've had to pay is that your daughter got raped 6 times while she was growing up, starting at the age of 6, with her teacher, 9 with a boy
08:36	cads	in the town, 11 with a janitor, and so on. You did not have legal resource in these situations, and the 2 men that you secretly had killed, they could put you in jail from beyond the grave if you are discovered. You live in a world of unprecedented prosperity, where vigilantism is prohibited.
08:37	cads	is this is acceptable from this peasant father perspective?
08:37	mircea_popescu	you know this is exactly how women got pregnant for most of human history ?
08:37	mircea_popescu	and when i say most i don't mean 51%. i mean 99.9999addnines%
08:38	cads	granted, and it's also how most animals get pregnant
08:38	mircea_popescu	for that matter, if your putative daughter gets raped today your practical recourse is
08:38	mircea_popescu	;;google that russian guy who went on a rampage cause they raped his daughter
08:38	gribble	War rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_rape>; List of serial killers by number of victims - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims>; Ram Singh: Delhi gang rape suspect's family claim he was ...: <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2291392/Ram-Singh-Delhi-gang-rape-suspects- (1 more message)
08:38	mircea_popescu	totally useful this google doohickey.
08:38	mircea_popescu	explain to me again why people think it should have a higher market cap than mpoe ?
08:40	cads	marketing ;)
08:40	mircea_popescu	ol
08:40	mircea_popescu	good one
08:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14386 @ 0.0006992 = 10.0587 BTC [+]
08:43	cads	mircea_popescu, you know sexual molestation is not only prevalent among females, but also among males. We are truly animals when we allow ourselves to be, and who can estimate the lost productivity due to the social and psychological handicaps imposed by such scarring episodes of violence?
08:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 12 @ 1.222222 = 14.6667 BTC [+]
08:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 1.222222 = 4.8889 BTC [+]
08:44	cads	it is perhaps true that if society accepted it the negative impact per rape victim would go down, but the net effect would be negative almost surely, since the new rape-rate equilibrium would be immense
08:44	cads	and yet still probably cheaper than the loss due to marketing and irrational consumerism, hah.
08:44	mircea_popescu	indeed.
08:44	mircea_popescu	i am not arguing rape is good
08:45	mircea_popescu	i am arguing rape is bad and marketing is way worse.
08:45	kakobrekla	seriously argentina?
08:45	cads	also rape can be good if she asks for it in that certain way :)
08:45	cads	but that's hardly rape, however much it may attempt to simulate it
08:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [-]
08:48	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 50 @ 0.015 = 0.75 BTC [-]
08:49	assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 12 @ 0.38499 = 4.6199 BTC [+]
08:49	cads	hehe, I dunno if that constituted rape though
08:50	cads	certainly the men felt that the would not have to answer to rape charges due to the nature of the sex play situation, and she never filed charges, and seems to have chalked it up as "just one of those things"
08:50	kakobrekla	does she still want to be tied up?
08:51	cads	hehe, lovely girl, and a smart mathematician, the best tit's I've ever... kakobrekla yes
08:51	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.108899 BTC [+]
08:51	cads	but she's getting married now, sadly :D
08:51	kakobrekla	not so smart mathematitican then
08:52	cads	haha, if you were a mathematician you'd know just how stupid we are
08:53	cads	I once spent 5 hours arguing with her that transfinite ordinals are no obviously inconsistent, against her objections
08:53	cads	and then we went to bed, and the next morning she was up proving the basic properties of transfinite ordinals
08:53	kakobrekla	hehe
08:54	cads	and had made me pankakes and written "you were right" in whipped cream
08:55	cads	the _only_ argument I ever 'won', that girl was stubborn
08:55	mircea_popescu	titican lol
08:55	kakobrekla	lol
08:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 1.249999 = 12.5 BTC [+]
08:56	mircea_popescu	cads http://polimedia.us/trilema/2010/nsfw-mosu-cu-joarda/
08:56	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8445 @ 0.0006992 = 5.9047 BTC [+]
08:56	mircea_popescu	there, no rope needed.
08:56	kakobrekla	also learn to skim read
08:57	assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 4 @ 0.385 = 1.54 BTC [+]
08:57	mircea_popescu	anyway, so did she ever find the aleph-one ?
08:59	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.25 BTC [+]
08:59	cads	mircea_popescu: yeah, his name is shawn, and they're pretty perfect for each other - each as stubborn as the day is long
08:59	mircea_popescu	nono
08:59	mircea_popescu	i mean, the intermediate cardinal
09:00	mircea_popescu	between naturals and reals.
09:00	cads	haha, we never did talk about the continuum hypothesis
09:00	mircea_popescu	but that'd have been the end of your debate
09:00	mircea_popescu	here, there's an extra infinite.
09:02	cads	we got to isomorphism classes between ordered set, and I tried at long length to motivate that the real numbers were not countable, and she kept coming up with silly schemes to try to count them, because to her, at the time, it was absolutely absurd for there two be two infinite sets with qualitatively different amounts of infiniteness
09:02	mircea_popescu	um
09:03	mircea_popescu	that's easily provable tho neh ? cantor's countability trick
09:03	mircea_popescu	sort out all the numbers then show you can make one which is distinct from each on a different digit
09:03	mircea_popescu	by "easily provable" i mean easily showable to the intuitive approach
09:04	cads	yep, suppose that C_k : N -> R is a counting of the real numbers, then there exists a number x_k such that x_k is not in the image of C_k
09:04	cads	x_k is easy to construct for any possible C_k
09:04	mircea_popescu	ya but it helps if you actually list them out
09:05	mircea_popescu	but anyway
09:05	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 1.249999 = 3.75 BTC [-]
09:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15938 @ 0.00069433 = 11.0662 BTC [-]
09:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5362 @ 0.00069088 = 3.7045 BTC [-]
09:06	mircea_popescu	alternatively of course, she could have proven the continuum, thus proving frankel set theory incorrect,which is also good enough
09:07	mircea_popescu	either way, either by producing a counter example or by actually showing the hyptothesis to be correct
09:07	mircea_popescu	and by incorrect i mean inconsistenty
09:09	cads	it was strange, like a cognitive blindspot - I tried what you suggest, and a few other approaches that I invented just during that conversation (which have been useful in similar situation). I lost a lot of faith in her as a mathematician, but regained it in the morning - she was chattering like a bluejay about how she now sees why she was wrong in her reasoning and why I was right: her intuition was that you can't just infinitely exte
09:09	cads	nd C_k to C_k', and for some reason just wasn't getting that _forall_ C_k there is an x_k, and that even any C_k' that she could concoct would also have its own fatal x_k'.
09:10	mircea_popescu	lol
09:10	cads	mircea_popescu: now wouldn't that have been a sight? two stoned college math students, disproving ZFC
09:10	mircea_popescu	freud would have been happy
09:10	mircea_popescu	"see ? woman brain!"
09:10	mircea_popescu	schopenhauer even happier.
09:10	mircea_popescu	in his gloomy way.
09:12	cads	to her credit, her area was in the statistics of neuronal bursting in biological neural networks, and for some god awful reason, basic logic courses at our university do _not_ adequately introduce foundational issues such as ordinals or even set theory as an axiomatic topic
09:12	mircea_popescu	anyway, it is my considered opinion (along with, i wager, most everyone else's) that positively the ONLY way that's getting show to be inconsistent is
09:13	mircea_popescu	by some intoxicated kids during having sex or somesuch
09:13	mircea_popescu	everything else was tried to death.
09:13	cads	it's like, naive set theory without talking about the axiom of choice, or the axiom of infinity, or the implications.. part of the reason I recently dropped out - if this is what the undergraduate math degree means here, I'm not interested in it
09:14	cads	mircea_popescu: haha, you may be on to something
09:15	cads	maybe she was on to the truth and I squelched her breakthrough!
09:15	mircea_popescu	feelbad.gif
09:17	cads	I stopped hanging out with her to get sober and start hanging out with a vocalist/painter, and then a year later I found she's engaged - I wonder if she knows I still have sentiment.. it's not something I thought I had
09:17	mircea_popescu	well did you tell her ?
09:20	cads	not at the time, and not since I heard she was settling down - I was muddled up back then, and more recently I figured she has a chance at happiness with her guy, and have wished that to her.
09:21	zebedee_	Chaaang-Noi: I'll buy some THB from you for BTC if you're in a bad way.
09:21	mircea_popescu	stop being such a fag and tell the girl.
09:21	zebedee_	Gotta pay for my fun somehow.
09:22	cads	It's not a longing sentiment, since we had our issues, and she's still a toker, and I still am sober, thought you're probably right, it would not hurt her to know that I marvel and take joy in the high points of our relationship
09:22	mircea_popescu	for the record, i never met a sane mathematician who was any good.
09:22	mircea_popescu	if you had a business head on your shoulders as good as mine, you'd start a special slush fgund about now
09:23	mircea_popescu	and when her current relationship implodes you can bridge her for half a year on rent and food while she sucks your cock and figures out what next.
09:23	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.249999 BTC [-]
09:23	cads	brilliant strategery
09:24	mircea_popescu	you can even tell her this when it happens and she's all confused, "honey... here's a chatlog"
09:25	mircea_popescu	zebedee_ pix ?
09:26	cads	you're talking to someone that just a year ago found the idea of leverage very exotic, and just 6 months ago was aghast to find out that his financial position has sickeningly leveraged re. his student loans, and decided to put his schooling on panic crash
09:27	cads	haha, for me to set aside a slush fund just for women, now that would be bold
09:27	mircea_popescu	lol well... not ghood ideas are practical.
09:27	cads	but not hard at all, and a fun exercise in personal wealth management
09:29	zebedee_	pix? Meeting Goat on Tuesday.
09:29	zebedee_	Nothing wrong with enjoying getting tied up. I like both ends myself.
09:32	zebedee_	http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7046/6855106703_844f08ffbd_z.jpg I've had shibari lessons from this dude.
09:33	mircea_popescu	i never took lessosn
09:34	zebedee_	Definitely helps; Japanese are the best IMO.
09:34	mircea_popescu	helps what tho ?
09:35	zebedee_	There's skill in a) safety (quick release, avoiding pressure in bad areas etc). and b) aesthetics
09:35	zebedee_	I've seen others and there's a lot lacking, to my eyes at least.
09:35	mircea_popescu	safety is unrelated tho, it's just a study of anatomy. can learn it a thousand different ways.
09:35	mircea_popescu	and i guess my motivation is not aesthetical.
09:36	mircea_popescu	or if it is, it's personal rather than cultural. i couldn't care less what some japanese dude finds beautiful.
09:37	Chaaang-Noi	zebedee_ im not in a bad way but i could buy some thai baht, you in thailand?
09:37	zebedee_	Oh I thought you had too many. I don't have any.
09:38	zebedee_	Will be on Tuesday as discussed.
09:38	Chaaang-Noi	oh right, sorry, did not even register :)
09:38	zebedee_	lol
09:38	zebedee_	You wanna sell THB? If not I'll just dump some JPY notes.
09:38	Chaaang-Noi	some guy wants to meet me to sell 30,000 thai baht for btc wheni go
09:39	Chaaang-Noi	you want to buy more btc
09:39	Chaaang-Noi	?
09:39	zebedee_	No I want THB. I'm indifferent to dropping some BTC or JPY.
09:39	Chaaang-Noi	oh right, sorry, i did not read that collectly
09:39	zebedee_	If you want to sell THB then I'll buy some off you. If you don't it's cool.
09:39	Chaaang-Noi	yeah ill sell you thai baht
09:39	Chaaang-Noi	how much are you looking for?
09:40	zebedee_	OK. About $1k equivalent, so perhaps 30k THB.
09:40	Chaaang-Noi	yeah thats cool
09:40	Chaaang-Noi	there is a guy who is going to meet me in bkk with 30,000 thb to buy btc so this should work out perfectly
09:40	zebedee_	OK. Let's call it 25k for now.
09:40	Chaaang-Noi	yeah thats fine
09:41	Chaaang-Noi	im easy
09:41	zebedee_	Nice.
09:41	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 7 @ 0.015 = 0.105 BTC [-]
09:41	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 3 @ 0.015 = 0.045 BTC [-]
09:41	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 13 @ 0.01426 = 0.1854 BTC [-]
09:41	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 4 @ 0.01425 = 0.057 BTC [-]
09:42	Chaaang-Noi	ill have cash on hand even if thqat other guy does not show
09:42	Chaaang-Noi	he has not responced once i confirmed the dats
09:42	Chaaang-Noi	dates
09:42	zebedee_	OK, done.
09:43	Chaaang-Noi	cool
09:43	zebedee_	I'll have them on my phone.
09:43	Chaaang-Noi	you can send to my laptop?
09:43	zebedee_	Of course; I send to a BTC address :)
09:43	Chaaang-Noi	i can send you an address before hand but dont send until we meet and i show you the cash
09:43	zebedee_	Sure that's not a problem.
09:44	Chaaang-Noi	its crazy sending in advance
09:44	Chaaang-Noi	you hear about that finish guy? wired me 2.65 million baht
09:44	zebedee_	I was assuming you'd show me a QR on your mobile, but whatever.
09:44	Chaaang-Noi	still has not asked for his btc
09:44	Chaaang-Noi	yeah i dont trust phones
09:44	zebedee_	Yeah; that's why I thought you had too many THB.
09:44	zebedee_	I can understand that.
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	iv used them just to try it out, but id rather just use the laptob
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	tob
09:45	zebedee_	No probs.
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	fuck
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	sorry, had a few beers
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	cant type
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	we are moving and giving away a lot of our extra furniture and stuff to the cambodian migrant workers here
09:45	Chaaang-Noi	and well, cant work with out beer :)
09:46	zebedee_	Which part of Thailand do you live in?
09:46	cads	mircea_popescu, I think you've inspired me to put a beginning of a story on my (currently nearly empty) blog.
09:46	mircea_popescu	cool.
09:46	cads	it will be far grittier than yours, just a start to a possible tale of intrigue
09:47	Chaaang-Noi	i live near koh chang
09:47	Chaaang-Noi	near the cambo boarder
09:48	Chaaang-Noi	lots of fruit orchirds here
09:48	Chaaang-Noi	so lots of workers
09:48	zebedee_	Ah right. I was in Siam Reap in November.
09:48	Chaaang-Noi	cool
09:48	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.0006992 = 1.0488 BTC [+]
09:49	Chaaang-Noi	hey that guy just contacted me
09:49	Chaaang-Noi	should i invite him to nana? i honestly know almost nothing about him so i dont know if he is cool or not
09:49	Chaaang-Noi	he is new to btc
09:49	Chaaang-Noi	but seems to live in bkk
09:49	zebedee_	Up to you.
09:49	zebedee_	You seem to be not too far from Koh Samet - I was there in Feb!
09:50	Chaaang-Noi	yeah, im more east
09:51	thestringpuller	;;calc 6.07*1.12
09:51	gribble	6.7984
09:51	Chaaang-Noi	anyway i gota go afk for a bit, bbl peace
09:52	zebedee_	ttyl
09:55	zebedee_	mircea_popescu: What languages do you speak?
09:56	mircea_popescu	a few, why ?
09:56	zebedee_	Just curious.
09:56	zebedee_	Your English is v. good. Wondering how you learnt.
09:57	mircea_popescu	you learn languages from women, is my experience.
09:57	zebedee_	Lol. It's why I learnt Japanese at least.
09:59	mircea_popescu	yeah/. they call it "mother's tongue", but it's not really that special.
10:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 2828 @ 0.003388 = 9.5813 BTC [+]
10:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 143 @ 0.00338999 = 0.4848 BTC [+]
10:11	zebedee_	What software creates those weird comments in blogs that are something like "[...] some words or other [...]" with the square brackets? What's that all about?
10:14	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2499 BTC [-]
10:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13867 @ 0.0006992 = 9.6958 BTC [+]
10:15	Chaaang-Noi	mp i learned thai froom women
10:15	Chaaang-Noi	never used a book
10:16	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 1.249999 = 5 BTC [+]
10:17	mircea_popescu	yeah.
10:21	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.24999 BTC [-]
10:28	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.24999 BTC [-]
10:29	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.249999 = 2.5 BTC [+]
10:40	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 13 @ 0.0126 = 0.1638 BTC [+]
10:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 5 @ 0.00165 = 0.0083 BTC [-]
10:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 8 @ 0.0016 = 0.0128 BTC [-]
10:47	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.25 = 2.5 BTC [+]
10:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.244 BTC [-]
10:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.243 BTC [-]
10:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.24 BTC [-]
11:02	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 994 @ 0.01003 = 9.9698 BTC [+]
11:08	Chaaang-Noi	i have the urge to smoke some weed, have not done so in years, odd
11:08	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 1.268999 = 13.959 BTC [+]
11:08	copumpkin	that sounds dangerous in thailand
11:09	copumpkin	I accidentally smoked a bit in Budapest
11:09	copumpkin	and found out that it's a big no-no
11:10	copumpkin	I crossed the Hungary/Croatia border with a little bit of weed and that's apparently a big source of international tension with Hungary, because Hungary is super hardcore about drugs and will throw you in jail for 15 years without a trial for 5, and quite a few foreigners are in that situation
11:16	Chaaang-Noi	using drugs in thailand is fine
11:16	Chaaang-Noi	selling or traficing is a big no no
11:16	copumpkin	ah, okay
11:16	Chaaang-Noi	the police and army sell and trafic here so its harsh punsihment
11:16	Chaaang-Noi	however they dont care if you buy and use their products
11:16	copumpkin	for competing with them? :P
11:16	Chaaang-Noi	yeah, they will kill you on site if you are thai
11:16	Chaaang-Noi	no shit
11:16	copumpkin	wow
11:17	Chaaang-Noi	if you are not paying the right guy you are good as dead if caught
11:17	Chaaang-Noi	if not dead then 15 years in jail or so
11:17	Chaaang-Noi	buying your way out is millions of baht
11:17	Chaaang-Noi	but really a farang smoking a joint, they dont give a fuck
11:18	Chaaang-Noi	now meth is becoming an issue here, as it leads to crime
11:18	Chaaang-Noi	so they are cracking down on meth
11:18	Chaaang-Noi	people get hooked then steal shit
11:18	assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 18 @ 0.003279 = 0.059 BTC [+]
11:18	Chaaang-Noi	with opium or weed, they dont give a fuck
11:18	copumpkin	ah
11:18	copumpkin	how about shrooms/acid/the weirder crap?
11:19	Chaaang-Noi	yeah thats fine, but you ahve to get it in tourist areas, and the dealers are paying the cops for sure (or they wont last)
11:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 2 @ 0.003279 = 0.0066 BTC [+]
11:19	Chaaang-Noi	thais done use that stuff
11:20	Chaaang-Noi	really the thais mostly use "yaa baa" or meth
11:20	Chaaang-Noi	coke is rally high here (far from the source)
11:20	Chaaang-Noi	h is cheap as fuck as is opium
11:21	Chaaang-Noi	weed too
11:21	Chaaang-Noi	but its mostly wild
11:21	Chaaang-Noi	not as good as the high end stuff you get in the usa
11:22	Chaaang-Noi	<copumpkin> I accidentally smoked a bit in Budapest
11:22	Chaaang-Noi	how do you accidently smoke?
11:22	copumpkin	oh I meant that had I known how harsh their laws were, I wouldn't have dreamt of doing that
11:22	assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 3 @ 0.000698 = 0.0021 BTC [+]
11:22	copumpkin	or even bringing any into hungary
11:22	Chaaang-Noi	ahh
11:23	Chaaang-Noi	i dont cross boarders with it, never never never
11:23	copumpkin	it was just the end of a little baggie I had with me while traveling around europe
11:23	copumpkin	lol, did lots of that
11:23	copumpkin	but hungary is particularly bad
11:23	copumpkin	should've just finished it off in croatia
11:23	copumpkin	I bought it legally in amsterdam, had most of it, and then forgot about it until I got to slovenia
11:24	Chaaang-Noi	i want to travel europe like that
11:24	copumpkin	I got one of those rail passes
11:24	copumpkin	it was great
11:24	Chaaang-Noi	i dont know anyone to go with
11:24	copumpkin	very spontaneous travel with my gf for over a month
11:24	Chaaang-Noi	yeah that would be cool
11:24	copumpkin	we'd just say "oh, that train looks cool" and hop on
11:24	Chaaang-Noi	but my wife will have a hard time getting visa i bet cuz she is thai
11:25	copumpkin	yeah :/ it might still be possible, not sure how hard
11:25	Chaaang-Noi	yeah
11:25	copumpkin	lots of foreigners get those rail passes
11:25	copumpkin	they actually have different ones for non-EU citizens
11:25	copumpkin	annoyingly different price structures but not significantly different levels
11:25	Chaaang-Noi	money would not be the issue, it would be the visas
11:25	copumpkin	so I had to buy a new pass in the middle of the trip because I got the EU one
11:26	Chaaang-Noi	oh that sucks
11:26	copumpkin	yeah, not terrible though
11:26	copumpkin	anyway, definitely recommended
11:26	copumpkin	some countries are more annoying about letting you use it, but it was still mostly a win
11:26	Chaaang-Noi	id love to do it, but think it would suck if i did it alone
11:27	copumpkin	I'm not sure it would suck, but if you have a SO it would be kind of weird not to do it with them :)
11:27	copumpkin	I think traveling alone and meeting cool people in hostels is also fun
11:27	Chaaang-Noi	im not as out going as you might think :)
11:27	copumpkin	:P
11:28	Chaaang-Noi	very content in my basement on irc :)
11:28	Chaaang-Noi	if i did the euope thing or whever im sure id hook up with a local girl
11:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.465 BTC [+]
11:29	Chaaang-Noi	and then travel, or id have a bad time
11:29	Chaaang-Noi	big plans for cinco de mayo?
11:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 97 @ 0.00338999 = 0.3288 BTC [+]
11:42	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 17 @ 0.00143 = 0.0243 BTC [+]
11:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00144 BTC [+]
11:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 625 @ 0.0016 = 1 BTC [+]
11:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 50 @ 0.001646 = 0.0823 BTC [+]
11:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 307 @ 0.001647 = 0.5056 BTC [+]
11:44	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 21 @ 0.001647 = 0.0346 BTC [+]
11:44	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 53 @ 0.001648 = 0.0873 BTC [+]
11:44	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.001659 = 0.0083 BTC [+]
11:44	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.001679 = 0.0084 BTC [+]
11:45	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.001699 = 0.0085 BTC [+]
11:45	assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.00172 = 0.0086 BTC [+]
11:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.0006992 = 10.8726 BTC [+]
11:53	Chaaang-Noi	* copumpkin fucks Chaang-Noi
11:54	Chaaang-Noi	that casued some lulz this morning :)
11:54	Chaaang-Noi	mp was like wtf!
11:54	copumpkin	:)
11:54	Chaaang-Noi	cuz i said "good morning"
11:54	kakobrekla	mornin
11:55	Chaaang-Noi	:)
11:55	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01003 BTC [+]
11:57	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.0101 BTC [+]
12:02	ardeay_	;;ticker
12:02	gribble	BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 114.90000, Best ask: 115.33333, Bid-ask spread: 0.43333, Last trade: 115.43210, 24 hour volume: 103063.96248364, 24 hour low: 107.00000, 24 hour high: 118.85000, 24 hour vwap: 112.75249
12:04	cads	haha, copumpkin I never knew you partoked
12:04	copumpkin	:P
12:04	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.012501 = 0.025 BTC [-]
12:04	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 48 @ 0.0125 = 0.6 BTC [-]
12:05	cads	not that it's of any consequence (I had to quit, but I don't judge)
12:05	cads	also, cool you see you here
12:06	copumpkin	I've never actually done it in the US
12:06	copumpkin	I could, since my job doesn't check, but not particularly interested
12:10	cads	hmm, am I right to remember that last we talked ( a couple years ago) you were a grad student in midwest university?
12:11	copumpkin	nah, I was in a new england university :) but I quit my phd and moved on
12:11	copumpkin	but yeah, we did speak about it
12:11	cads	I remember I was writing my college application, and you gave me your encouragement
12:11	copumpkin	yup :)
12:11	copumpkin	going well?
12:11	mircea_popescu	he flunked
12:11	kakobrekla	o irc reunion?
12:14	cads	copumpkin: classes were boring. Substance abuse got unmanageable, and my debt was insane. I'm taking a year or two off to work on my sobriety, to work my same old job as a machinist and deleverage my debt a bit, and to wait and see what happens with higher education.
12:14	copumpkin	ah, sorry to hear that
12:15	mircea_popescu	da fuck this is the first time i hear someone say that.
12:15	mircea_popescu	what were you abusing ?
12:15	cads	just pot and alcohol
12:15	mircea_popescu	hm
12:15	mircea_popescu	ok, that i did hear.
12:16	tiberiusiv	;;asks 50
12:16	mircea_popescu	still waiting for the speed freak going "well it was getting unmanageable so i'm taking a year off to deleverage and see what happens"
12:16	gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 50.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0068 seconds
12:16	tiberiusiv	;;bids 50
12:16	gribble	There are currently 166245.52 bitcoins demanded at or over 50.0 USD, worth 13301613.3048 USD in total. | Data vintage: 4.3633 seconds
12:16	tiberiusiv	;;asks 200
12:16	gribble	There are currently 112560.13 bitcoins offered at or under 200.0 USD, worth 16843994.4159 USD in total. | Data vintage: 9.8288 seconds
12:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19499 BTC [-]
12:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 3 @ 0.195 = 0.585 BTC [+]
12:20	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19799 BTC [+]
12:20	cads	mircea_popescu: I don't mind talking about my substance problem - I'm amazed and embarrased - I kicked speed and heroin to the curb back in 2007, but I thought pot and booze were fine. It's shameful that those brought me lower than anything else has. It's... refreshing to finally be in a spot where I can say _no_ drug is _ever_ going to be a good
12:20	cads	a good investment*
12:20	tiberiusiv	??seen bugpowder
12:20	tiberiusiv	cads: so you admit to being a loser
12:21	mircea_popescu	well um... drugs aren't investments are they
12:21	cads	mircea_popescu: I share mostly because from time to time people hear my story, and ask me about how they can get clean
12:21	cads	tiberiusiv: absolutely :)
12:22	tiberiusiv	why would people want to hear about a loser
12:22	cads	tiberiusiv: it's not something I could address till I admitted, basically
12:22	tiberiusiv	we only like winners in here
12:22	cads	tiberiusiv: you may of course ignore all I have to say
12:22	tiberiusiv	cads sorry you arent motivational.
12:22	cads	tiberiusiv: and you are not someone that needs to hear what I have to say
12:23	benkay	trolling 12-steppers is the lowest
12:23	tiberiusiv	what country are you from
12:23	jurov	cads, no need to argue with tibby, just ignore him
12:23	kakobrekla	cads dont mind local trolls
12:23	cads	tiberius, and if that's true, then I salute you
		↖
12:23	tiberiusiv	i love how ex junkies think people want to listen to them
12:23	mircea_popescu	did tiberiusiv win the substance abusing competition too ?
12:23	mircea_popescu	is he like real badass ?
12:24	tiberiusiv	quiet gypsy
12:24	benkay	what's that trophy like?
12:24	cads	jurov, kakobrekla, you know, the 5th level of troll-fu is trolling the trolls with pure detachment ;)
12:24	jurov	cads, i tried
12:25	jurov	but i know when to stop
12:25	cads	jurov, I'm not there yet, lol
12:25	jurov	not sure aobut you (pun intended)
12:25	jurov	;)
12:25	mircea_popescu	benkay perhaps this : http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/136752522555.jpg in bronze.
12:26	tiberiusiv	cads: where were you getting the funds to buy drugs anyway
12:27	tiberiusiv	the junkie usually runs out of $ before he kills himself with an addiction
12:29	cads	I mean, you think I'll continue talking to you if I can expect ridicule and if even your contemporaries call you a troll?
12:29	cads	Hah.
12:29	Chaaang-Noi	tiberslav new lows today i see
12:29	Chaaang-Noi	you need help
12:29	cads	You can apologize and recover your position or else wither.
12:30	Chaaang-Noi	maybe cads can set you right
12:30	tiberiusiv	apologize to a loser?
12:30	tiberiusiv	for what
12:30	tiberiusiv	ex junkies love to think they are some type of celebrity after
12:30	tiberiusiv	"sharing" their experience and story.
12:30	tiberiusiv	why dont you share stories of cool shit instead.
12:30	Chaaang-Noi	dude i share all sorts of shit
12:31	tiberiusiv	yea your fine
12:31	Chaaang-Noi	hell im smoking and drinking now
12:31	kakobrekla	how about not sharing your complaints tib
12:31	kakobrekla	rute them t dev/null
12:31	kakobrekla	to
12:31	Chaaang-Noi	tiberslav feels the needs to share everything he gets upset about like some little girl
12:31	Chaaang-Noi	drama queen tiberslav is
12:31	Chaaang-Noi	all about tiberslav needs to be the center
12:32	tiberiusiv	just saying, EVERY junkie always wants to be a inspirational speaker. its like they accomplished something worth sharing
12:32	kakobrekla	cool you have said it move on.
12:32	benkay	mircea_popescu: i think this might work as well: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/pwnedk.jpg/?sa=0
12:33	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.01255 BTC [+]
12:34	kakobrekla	!l m s.dice
12:34	assbot	Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.00338999 BTC [+]
12:34	mircea_popescu	lol
12:35	mircea_popescu	there's all these liberals in my twitter feed wtf.
12:35	Chaaang-Noi	its twitter
12:35	Chaaang-Noi	what did you expect?
12:35	Chaaang-Noi	crypto anarchists?
12:35	benkay	the new social internet thrives on putting shit in front of you to raise your blood pressure
12:35	mircea_popescu	well i hope they butthurt well.
12:36	kakobrekla	no Chaaang-Noi, those are on facebook
12:37	cads	mircea_popescu: they're in your feed? or following you?
12:37	benkay	why are the crypto anarchists on facebook
12:37	benkay	actually i know the answer to that
12:37	mircea_popescu	cads in my feed
12:38	cads	mircea_popescu: if they were following you, you could make a game of offending them so greatly they unfollow you (and it would be fairly easy to analyze who unfollowed you, and what triggered it, lol)
12:38	mircea_popescu	In 2000, economist and former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers became president of Harvard. Soon after, Summers held a private meeting with West, where he reportedly rebuked West for missing too many classes, contributing to grade inflation, neglecting serious scholarship, and spending too much time on his economically profitable projects. Summers reportedly suggested that West produce an academic book befittin
12:38	mircea_popescu	g his professorial position, as his recent output had consisted primarily of co-written and edited volumes. According to some reports, Summers also objected to West's production of a CD, the critically panned Sketches of My Culture, and to his political campaigning, including an alleged three weeks to promote Bill Bradley's presidential campaign.
12:38	mircea_popescu	black guy of no academic value whatsoever gets told off by harvard president
12:39	mircea_popescu	harvard president is forced to step down within a year over having said women are maybe not quite as smart as men
12:39	cads	mircea_popescu: I have the same issue - I followed a bunch of people because they said something cool once or twice about category theory, haskell, or 3d printing, and the rest is all stuff about how their cat is awesome
12:39	mircea_popescu	cads this is worse, it's all retweets of dumb shit.
12:39	mircea_popescu	like how some adjuncts at some podunk uni should be paid or whatever nonsense
12:40	cads	the only twitter people I actually care to follow are dead authors - @kurt_vonnegut, mostly
12:40	tiberiusiv	twitters just another fad
12:40	mircea_popescu	i'd never follow something like that.
12:40	kakobrekla	tiberiusiv, get the sand out of your vagina pls
12:40	mircea_popescu	who is writing it and why are they using some brand
12:40	tiberiusiv	filled with twits who use it
12:41	benkay	+1
12:41	tiberiusiv	hence the name
12:41	benkay	degredation in service
12:41	cads	benkay: is that so?
12:42	cads	it's like "hmm people are still saying mostly pointless things"
12:42	tiberiusiv	cads do you need the link to silkroad btw?
12:42	kakobrekla	tib has it handy.
12:42	tiberiusiv	just making sure hes up to date
		↖
12:42	benkay	cads: it's a step backwards for the whole internet.
12:42	cads	kakobrekla: is tiberiusiv still talking :D
12:43	kakobrekla	cads fuck yea
12:43	tiberiusiv	facebook with 2billion or whatever users
12:43	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla scam. i see nothing.
12:43	tiberiusiv	can barely make a decent profit
12:43	kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2013&display=show#16891
12:43	tiberiusiv	twitters in the same boat
12:43	kakobrekla	thar
12:43	kakobrekla	also inception now.
12:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.108899 = 0.2178 BTC [+]
12:44	benkay	when did the log go live?!
12:44	mircea_popescu	benkay i actually announced it yest
12:44	kakobrekla	shadap
12:44	mircea_popescu	but you weren't paying attention!!1111!
12:44	benkay	moar exclamation points plz
12:44	kakobrekla	11
12:44	benkay	hey u
12:44	benkay	that's not what i assed for
12:44	benkay	anyways thanks to all involved
12:45	kakobrekla	eleven
12:45	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195110.msg2035668#msg2035668
12:45	mircea_popescu	fucking forum tards
12:45	benkay	this will make it vastly easier to pay attention
12:45	mircea_popescu	girl spells it with an o. his own fucking link spells it with an o
12:45	mircea_popescu	he spells it with an a
12:45	mircea_popescu	WHERE DO THESE PEOPEL GO TO SCHOAL
12:45	mircea_popescu	jajovregla : that's not what he assed for!
12:46	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 6 @ 1.9102 = 11.4612 BTC [-]
12:46	cads	kakobrekla: haha, cooool
12:47	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.25 = 2.5 BTC [-]
12:47	kakobrekla	lmao
12:47	cads	hah, that's uncanny
12:47	cads	incpetion.. "we have to go deeper!"
12:47	kakobrekla	seems like /me's are skipped
12:48	kakobrekla	maybe ill fix it
12:48	kakobrekla	maybe i wont
12:48	cads	what script are you using?
12:48	mircea_popescu	mandatory utube link
12:48	cads	kakobrekla: I might need that capability for one of my chat channels
12:48	kakobrekla	no script
12:48	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jbahu90GXU
12:48	kakobrekla	a few lines of code
12:49	cads	kako, would you mind zapping them to me?
12:49	cads	hehe, truly I am a lazy developer (I know full well that there have got to be turn key solutions for chat logging, already)
12:50	kakobrekla	i dunno if its much use to you really ... unless i give you assbot too ya know
12:50	kakobrekla	well i searched for a premade solutions
12:50	kakobrekla	for about 5 min
12:50	kakobrekla	then coded my own
12:50	benkay	"maybe i'll come down! maybe I won't!"
12:50	kakobrekla	lol mircea_popescu
12:51	mircea_popescu	:D
12:51	kakobrekla	he had a guy here a few years back, climbed on a roof all drunk and naked
12:51	kakobrekla	and demanded a helicopter and a pizza with an egg
12:51	kakobrekla	or else he jumps
12:51	benkay	"don't fuck up my beer now"
12:51	kakobrekla	then the police took him down and they had brand new car and couldnt oper the back door
12:52	kakobrekla	twas a van accually
12:52	mircea_popescu	lol
12:52	kakobrekla	the guy ended up driving in the front among the cops, naked
12:52	mircea_popescu	ahahaha
12:52	mircea_popescu	with a hardon ?
12:52	cads	class :)
12:52	kakobrekla	lol
12:52	benkay	fearboner
12:52	kakobrekla	i dont remember seeing that
12:52	cads	kakobrekla: this sounds like a story from a former soviet state :D
12:53	kakobrekla	naw its somalia
12:53	mircea_popescu	actually the town here starting hireing local police and it was mostly chicks. on like, high heels and shit.
12:53	jurov	kakobrekla i have older logs for sale... almost uninterrupted since last september or so ;)
12:53	mircea_popescu	i got a bj once just on the strength of asking
12:53	mircea_popescu	local police is pretty cool.
12:53	kakobrekla	cads, slovenia really (dont want you get too confused)
12:54	kakobrekla	jurov i have longs since day 1 prolly
12:54	kakobrekla	but they are all messed up
12:54	kakobrekla	so fuck it
12:54	jurov	maybe i can unmess some logs in exchange for fucking
12:55	kakobrekla	khm.
12:55	kakobrekla	who does who?
12:55	jurov	i'm versatile
12:55	jurov	let's try both, what feels better
12:56	kakobrekla	hehe
12:56	kakobrekla	speaking of i heard that there isnt much fuckin among man gay community
12:56	kakobrekla	mostly oral?
12:56	jurov	where u heard? in church?
12:57	kakobrekla	orkaa [on this chan] has lots of gay friends and he did a pool
12:57	kakobrekla	poll
12:57	kakobrekla	maybe he did a pool too
12:57	cads	hmm, It's an interesting problem. Given some number k of incomplete logs, collected by different people, with different latencies, and hence different orders of message arrival in general, how do you fuse the logs into a single log that has more accurate information?
12:57	jurov	actually pool might work better
12:58	cads	if k is a large number, you can try to find voting blocs - groups of logs that agree on the same history
12:58	kakobrekla	cads you disregard accuaracy and thats it
12:59	kakobrekla	also disregard my grammer skillz
12:59	jurov	cads ask freenode to give you millisecond-precision data
12:59	cads	you think they log the channels?
13:00	kakobrekla	nah
13:00	jurov	i'm rather joking, likely not
13:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.29020001 = 2.902 BTC [-]
13:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.2902 = 2.902 BTC [-]
13:02	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.2901 = 2.3208 BTC [-]
13:02	benkay	$avg
13:02	cads	in any case, the full problem is an interesting problem in the logging literature and in the AI literature - given some collection of possibly contradictory logs, process them into a single, more trustworthy digest log
13:02	mpexbot	benkay: 112.70
13:02	jurov	sigh. am wasting time, should be fixing minor mess here instead
13:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2681 @ 0.00068835 = 1.8455 BTC [-]
13:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3147 @ 0.00068174 = 2.1454 BTC [-]
13:02	cads	the problem of combing two chatlogs taken from different view points is a much simpler instance of that general problem.
13:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.46566004 = 2.3283 BTC [-]
13:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 6 @ 0.46566003 = 2.794 BTC [-]
13:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.46566002 = 4.1909 BTC [-]
13:03	cads	hehe, and it's totally unreasonable to apply those techniques, when there'd be nothing to gain that grepping through the collected chatlog as they are would not do just as well, hah
13:03	benkay	;;ticker
13:03	gribble	BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 115.01000, Best ask: 115.39598, Bid-ask spread: 0.38598, Last trade: 115.01000, 24 hour volume: 98006.84160658, 24 hour low: 107.00000, 24 hour high: 118.85000, 24 hour vwap: 112.76572
13:05	mircea_popescu	<jurov> where u heard? in church? << epic.
13:05	mircea_popescu	but jurov, seriously : in a household of three women i fuck each maybe once or twice a week
13:05	mircea_popescu	and in the ass once a month or less
13:06	mircea_popescu	i imagine they'd be pretty sore if the holes were reversed
13:11	jurov	oka, i did no research and seems i had luck on guys that don't think very highly on oral
13:11	jurov	"sore? yeah, get used to it"
13:11	mircea_popescu	i c
13:21	Chaaang-Noi	off to get a massage, night all
13:22	tiberiusiv	later gook
13:22	Chaaang-Noi	you really are slow arnt you tiberslav? :)
13:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.2899 = 2.3192 BTC [-]
13:23	Chaaang-Noi	anyway have a good one, try not to fall down and kill yourself before i get back!
13:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.28000001 = 1.4 BTC [-]
13:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.28 = 1.4 BTC [-]
13:27	mircea_popescu	#bitcoin-assets, the liberal-hating trade chanel where people discuss their sexual orientation and substance history
13:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.26 = 1.3 BTC [-]
13:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.25025 = 5.005 BTC [-]
13:28	kakobrekla	you forgot philosophical masturbation
13:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.2501 = 0.5002 BTC [-]
13:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.25 = 0.75 BTC [-]
13:28	mircea_popescu	a that too yes
13:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 35 @ 0.25 = 8.75 BTC [-]
13:31	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.241 BTC [-]
13:33	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 4 @ 0.108899 = 0.4356 BTC [+]
13:39	cads	hey, any 3d printing enthusiasts in here?
13:40	kakobrekla	i have ~80% of cnc machine finished which im thinking i could convert to 3d printer
13:40	cads	oh nice, what layout?
13:41	cads	or make, really
13:43	kakobrekla	http://shrani.si/f/Z/RG/4qUD9X4i/5/dscn0196.jpg
13:43	kakobrekla	http://shrani.si/f/2h/tU/4D24xeIq/dscn0199.jpg
13:43	kakobrekla	http://shrani.si/f/20/fZ/4whyU0d2/dscn0201.jpg
13:44	kakobrekla	spent 5k+ on parts and a year of work (when i found the time to fiddle with it)
13:45	kakobrekla	then i got occupied with other stuff and its like that for like 2 years maybe more now
13:45	cads	https://www.xkcd.com/924/
13:45	cads	kakobrekla: awsome gantry
13:45	inhies	i have a mendel
13:45	inhies	thats half way through an electronics upgrade from like two years ago...
13:45	inhies	=/
13:46	kakobrekla	cads its only missing Z axis really
13:46	kakobrekla	the rest is done
13:46	kakobrekla	i could put anything on it really
13:46	kakobrekla	a spindle or laser or a cigar
13:46	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.01255 = 0.3514 BTC [+]
13:47	cads	kakobrekla: the "vitamins" needed to put together a 3d printer - steppers, controllers, RAMP board, and linear actuators - are only around $300. As soon as your mill is up and running with a mill head, you could fabricate the parts for a 3d printer kit fairly easily.
13:47	kakobrekla	i already have steppers and cotrollers and all that shit
13:47	kakobrekla	12nm each btw
13:47	kakobrekla	overkill :)
13:48	kakobrekla	and there are two for x axis
13:48	cads	The 3dp community advises against 3d printer/mill hybrids. A mill needs torque and stiffness, while a 3d printer needs lightness and feed speeds - they use speeds that are rather shocking to people used to traditional mills
13:48	kakobrekla	myea
13:49	cads	so a mill/printer hybrid will perform poorly at least one task :D
13:49	kakobrekla	well i can switch the gap on the rod that steppers move
13:49	kakobrekla	and that changes speed/power ratio as well
13:51	kakobrekla	what do even rather than any of that, sell it as is
13:51	kakobrekla	:)
13:52	cads	haha, how much?
13:53	kakobrekla	dunno gimme an offer
13:53	cads	I may _need_ a gantry, but I couldn't pay more than $800 for it, and this would likely be an insult.
13:53	kakobrekla	lol kinda
13:53	kakobrekla	:)
13:53	cads	considering your sunk cost
13:53	kakobrekla	id take maybe 3k for it
13:54	mircea_popescu	<kakobrekla> then i got occupied with other stuff and its like that for like 2 years maybe more now << i blame marketing.
13:54	kakobrekla	i was raped
13:55	cads	it's amazingly rigid looking construction - at least you have a quality product :)
13:55	kakobrekla	ya some pros were invlived
13:55	kakobrekla	such a machine finished is worth 15-20k
13:55	cads	I'm looking at a lower quality offering in the range of $1500, in kit form
13:56	mircea_popescu	so pay him in bitcoinz
13:56	mircea_popescu	or bitbet shares
13:56	assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.4 BTC [+]
13:57	mircea_popescu	so i'm re-reading an old (romanian) article
13:57	mircea_popescu	and in the comments i make the following suggestion :
13:57	cads	kakobrekla: it needs z-fixtures and milling head?
13:57	mircea_popescu	some shetroll could implant christian-only eggs only to abort them 10 weeks in.
13:58	kakobrekla	if it werent for btc maybe id finish it
13:58	kakobrekla	cads yea preety much
13:59	cads	kakobrekla: I hope you do! What kind of ideas did you have planned for it.
13:59	kakobrekla	anyway i gotta jet now
13:59	kakobrekla	be back in 30 or so
13:59	cads	inhies: it seems like a lot of rep-rap grade printers end up gathering dust
14:00	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.24 BTC [-]
14:01	mircea_popescu	cads i blame marketing.
14:01	cads	hrm it pisses me off that the reprap community seems to be allowing large corporations to patentblock all the valuable 3DP IP
14:02	cads	they worked their ASSES off to make personal desktop manufacturing remotely feasible, and those high capital jackals are waiting for the market to mature so they can pounce.
14:03	cads	the worst part is that if you talk to the open 3dp community about setting up defensive publications, they're all like "heck naw. ain't gonna be no centralized IP control on open 3dp tech"
14:04	cads	or, "you have any idea how much it costs to file patents?"
14:05	asciilifeform	cads: the way I understand it, the main virtue of 3d printing is that you can build the thing in your basement out of junkyard parts and not give a rat's arse about patents or copyrights.
14:05	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if i understand agriculture correctly, the main virtue thereof is you can plant crops in your own back yard
14:05	mircea_popescu	and not give a rat's ass about patents or copyrights
14:06	assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 30 @ 0.003279 = 0.0984 BTC [+]
14:06	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if someone found a way to "fix" the atrociously-inefficient RuBisCO enzyme, you could feed a family on what you can grow in a flower vase.
14:06	cads	agricultural genetic patents are such horse shit
14:07	asciilifeform	if 3d printers actually were what their enthusiasts imagine them to be (a substitute for industrial production) rather than machines for churning out brittle crap, the same dynamic would apply here.
14:07	cads	say my crop gets contaminated by monstanto genetics from a farm up-wind
14:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6285 @ 0.00069741 = 4.3832 BTC [+]
14:08	mircea_popescu	it may surprise you to find that inefficiency is a blessing not a failure.
14:08	cads	I'm not liable to damages claimed by the monsanto company
14:08	cads	s/not/now
14:08	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no surprise here. population explosion, catastrophe, etc
14:08	asciilifeform	re: 3d printing and whether is is actually useful: http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/bad-engineering-journalism-reporting-on-3-d-printing-of-guns/
14:08	mircea_popescu	anyone want to see flowering salvia ?
14:09	asciilifeform	a CNC mill is infinitely more useful in practice. but it doesn't have the same sexy appeal to noobs who think they can produce arbitrary widgets just by hitting a button (actually false for both solid printing and cnc)
14:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 3806 @ 0.00321048 = 12.2191 BTC [-]
14:10	mircea_popescu	"The AR is one of the few rifle designs where you could even think about using a lower receiver made out of plastic."
14:10	mircea_popescu	this is such bs.
14:10	mircea_popescu	you know i appreciate the sentiment of calling out business insider et al for their ignorance, which is patent and outrageous
14:10	mircea_popescu	but locklin doesn't strike me as much better honestly.
14:11	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it may help to know that the focus on the AR is solely because of a weird quirk of U.S. law
14:11	mircea_popescu	no, i just mean the bad science of it
14:11	asciilifeform	in the U.S., the part which legally counts as "the gun" is the piece with the serial number on it.
14:11	mircea_popescu	he upper receiver of the AR-15 is legally the gun, and a plastic version would melt if it didn’t dissolve from mechanical stress the first time you fired it.
14:11	mircea_popescu	either he has no idea what plastic is or he's just following some script.
14:12	asciilifeform	so you can buy the entire metal portion of a Glock, for example (barrel and striker mechanism) with no paperwork, as if it were a video card. because the SN is stamped on an aluminum plate embedded in the lower, plastic portion.
14:12	mircea_popescu	you can in fact produce polymers of any arbitrary hardness, however you define it.
14:13	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: find me a polymer which can be used to produce a barrel reliably firing modern calibers. I know people who will pay very serious moneys for such.
14:13	asciilifeform	hardness is not the only issue. (temperature is another.)
14:13	inhies	hrm
14:13	inhies	my AR lowers are legally the gun, since thats where the serial number is :p
14:13	inhies	guess it all depends on where you get parts
14:14	asciilifeform	inhies: exactly. hence the 3d printer folks interest in the AR.
14:14	mircea_popescu	think of glock's nylon derivatives
14:15	mircea_popescu	also, plenty of non-plasticizing composites may well work in the 3d printer model.
14:15	asciilifeform	for those who have never seen an AR, the "lower" is simply a small can which holds the trigger/hammer mechanism, with the stock screwing into one end and the bold carrier/barrel assembly (known as the "upper") into the other end.
14:15	asciilifeform	people have carved AR lowers out of kitchen cutting boards, for instance. and even wood.
14:16	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if you can produce a polymer which reliably stays in one piece in the form of a rifled barrel, you can become a far, far richer man than you already are.
14:16	mircea_popescu	dude i'm certain it can be done.
14:17	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: done, yes. consider aerogel. economically, no.
14:17	mircea_popescu	dissolve my foot.
14:17	mircea_popescu	economically was never the point.
14:17	mircea_popescu	hence my comment on bad science
14:17	asciilifeform	3d printers are being touted by idiots as "we can now produce modern arms in our basement without knowing any machining." which is patently false, and is likely to remain so.
14:18	mircea_popescu	actually! here's a blueprint : i bet you can get a formulation of some sort of carbide, maybe even tungsten base, to dissolve in a solvent that evaporates at room temeprature
14:18	asciilifeform	metalworking isn't hard, but it does require some skill.
14:18	mircea_popescu	so you will be able to ACTUALLY print a harder-than-steel barel witha good 3d printer
14:18	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes, sintering. even in the USSR, they had it.
14:18	mircea_popescu	right ?
14:18	mircea_popescu	so then wtf is locklin on about
14:18	asciilifeform	only problem is, sintered materials are brittle
14:18	mircea_popescu	you don't fight bad science with bad science
14:19	asciilifeform	a barrel flexes (watch an AK on full auto on youtube, high speed camera. 4-5 cm of flex, like a Slinky.)
14:19	mircea_popescu	dude, let's make a pistorl
14:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [-]
14:19	mircea_popescu	before you make a TOW 6 barrel double rotating machine gun
14:20	asciilifeform	if all you want is 17th century tech, you can easily make single-shot pistol or shotgun from hardware store pipes. and it will be far more reliable (and deadly to the enemy, vs. the user) than anything you can get out of a $3k 3d printer.
14:20	mircea_popescu	and brittleness doesn't sound undefeasible either. maybe you add some guar gum or some shit
14:20	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 15 @ 1.245 = 18.675 BTC [+]
14:20	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.01255 BTC [+]
14:21	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: look up the temperature of the inside of a barrel (of the smallest pistol) after one shot.
14:21	mircea_popescu	carbides melt now ?
14:21	asciilifeform	did you really suggest guar gum or the like?
14:21	mircea_popescu	i was making a point!
14:21	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.249999 BTC [+]
14:21	mircea_popescu	as in, it's extremely unlikely you won't find a debrittleing additive
14:21	asciilifeform	if you don't need many shots, even this works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_cannon
14:22	asciilifeform	my point wasn't that it is physically impossible to make small arms out of garbage (it is possible) but that a 3d printer gains you nothing compared to using parts straight from the junkyard.
14:22	truff1es	cads id like to read your blog, do link
14:23	mircea_popescu	it does gain you something.
14:23	mircea_popescu	at the very least the cool of it.
14:24	mircea_popescu	further, if my carbide solution actually works any, you could be making the guns as fast as you fire them for instance
14:24	mircea_popescu	imagine a remote opperated batter of gun printers and robofirers
14:24	asciilifeform	btw, I personally have a design for a 3d printer which prints solid steel. think "TIG welder" plus XYZ frame. but this would be ruinously expensive to run, and would burn down the house of the first idiot who builds on in his garage. so, unpublished.
14:25	truff1es	cads u seem like an intellectual who has succumbed to wordly distractions, its a shame youve given up on uni but gl nonetheless
14:25	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if you want to go the whole hog, dispense with cartridges. fire nails or ball bearings, with injected gasoline for the propellant.
14:25	mircea_popescu	" If he just wanted to make a working gun out of a barrel and bolt, he could have done so with duct tape, modeling clay and superglue."
14:25	mircea_popescu	again, this point is correct.
14:25	mircea_popescu	but the foregoing statements are both incorrect and misleading.
14:26	asciilifeform	contrary to popular delusion, the fist of the State will come down in the future not on guns, but on ammunition.
14:26	truff1es	why
14:27	asciilifeform	producing crude but working small arms is trivial. modern ammunition, not so much.
14:27	mircea_popescu	" Solid printers can make crude unassembled plastic parts; nothing else. No electronics can be made in this way."
14:27	mircea_popescu	again, this is fuckwittery.
14:27	mircea_popescu	all electronics are made in this way
14:27	asciilifeform	I can see the political virtues of reviving the skills of building 18th century muskets, but 3d printers aren't usefully in the mix.
14:27	mircea_popescu	chips are lierally printed
14:27	mircea_popescu	and then the pcbs are mounted by machine
14:28	mircea_popescu	this guy is incredibly ignorant and wilfully so.
14:28	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: do you own a chip fab? does it fit in your house? why, or why not? using the term "printing" for photomask fabrication is disingenuous.
14:28	mircea_popescu	why ?
14:28	mircea_popescu	the early printers didn't fit in my jhouse
14:28	mircea_popescu	nor the early computers
14:28	asciilifeform	astronomical tooling cost
14:29	mircea_popescu	note that i dispute the "can not" claim
14:29	mircea_popescu	i do not make the "can" claim.
14:29	mircea_popescu	again, if we protest scientific ignorance of journos
14:29	mircea_popescu	let's not demonstrate it one knot up the river.
14:30	asciilifeform	btw, I am personally researching a means for fabricating 1980s-level VLSI in "bush conditions." No prizes for guessing why. But I cannot promise that anything will come of it.
14:31	mircea_popescu	bush condition means no metal ?
14:32	asciilifeform	meaning a plebe's budget.
14:32	mircea_popescu	a
14:33	mircea_popescu	hm
14:33	mircea_popescu	i'd bet against it.
14:33	asciilifeform	smart money bets against, yes.
14:34	mircea_popescu	no but i mean... you will need a laser.
14:34	asciilifeform	although I do have access to university surplus lab junk.
14:34	mircea_popescu	and very high precision controls for moving it
14:34	asciilifeform	SAW resonator
14:34	asciilifeform	Kerr cell for toggling
14:34	mircea_popescu	um
14:35	benkay	whoa
14:35	mircea_popescu	can you acrtually fabricate silicon with resonance without having very specially made foundry silicon ?
14:35	mircea_popescu	as in, won't it just crack ?
14:35	asciilifeform	no, you get the SAWs from the uni junkyard
14:35	mircea_popescu	ok, but do what with them lol
14:35	asciilifeform	alternatively, DLP arrays from consumer video projectors
14:36	asciilifeform	(granted the latter gives you LSI at best, 1970s level)
14:36	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19723 BTC [-]
14:36	mircea_popescu	i tell ye i don't see it.
14:36	asciilifeform	I'm more interested in the ion beam deposition approach, rather than optical masks, though
14:37	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19724 BTC [+]
14:37	asciilifeform	I assume you were asking about optical (traditional) photo etching
14:38	Guest18208	hi\
14:38	mircea_popescu	yea
14:38	Guest18208	i am guest 18 fucking 208
14:38	mircea_popescu	hi guest.
14:38	Guest18208	just ask me anything
14:38	mircea_popescu	hows urmom
14:38	benkay	what is your mission
14:38	Guest18208	mostly anal
14:38	Guest18208	next question
14:38	asciilifeform	ion beam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_beam_deposition) is ever so slightly more doable, I suspect.
14:39	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.198 = 0.396 BTC [+]
14:39	mircea_popescu	mebbe. ianae
14:39	Guest18208	ianaproctologist
14:40	benkay	asciilifeform a friend of mine built an ion beam microscope
14:40	benkay	got a point source for waving around with em fields by using a pinhole
14:40	asciilifeform	benkay: one can trivially build an STM out of junkyard parts: http://www.e-basteln.de/index_m.htm
14:40	benkay	he told me that and i were all OMGOFCOURSE
14:40	asciilifeform	mostly useless for semiconductor work, though
14:41	benkay	this were no tunneler
14:41	benkay	and this is just an interesting anecdote
14:44	benkay	$avg
14:44	mpexbot	benkay: 113.06
14:44	jurov	maybe organic semiconductors would be more suitable than silicon?
14:44	asciilifeform	jurov: I'm looking into copper oxide
14:45	asciilifeform	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AJulius_Edgar_Lilienfeld
14:46	asciilifeform	"in 1995 R. G. Arns found a 1948 legal deposition by Johnson which said the opposite: that Bell Labs back then had a project to test Lilienfeld's transistors, and before Johnson took over the project,"
14:47	asciilifeform	"...a paper, JVST A Volume 20, Issue 4, pp. 1365-1368 describing transistors made with anodized aluminum gate insulator and a chemical bath deposited semiconductor (CdS/CdSe). Both are techniques that do not require complicated equipment (beaker, current source, heater) and should have been accessible in the 1920s."
14:48	asciilifeform	TLDR: an obscure German fellow almost certainly had working transistors in the '20s.
14:48	truff1es	did he get credit
14:48	asciilifeform	truffles: not really.
14:48	truff1es	unlucky
14:49	asciilifeform	although Bell Labs was denied the patent on the basis of his prior art.
14:50	truff1es	easiest way to steal ideas, work at patent office it seems
14:50	asciilifeform	granted, there is quite a leap from Lilienfeld's cupric oxide transistor to kitchen table VLSI. but it seems like a promising idea to investigate.
14:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00069899 = 10.1354 BTC [+]
14:53	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.2401 = 1.2005 BTC [-]
14:53	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 12 @ 0.24 = 2.88 BTC [-]
14:53	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 39 @ 0.01255 = 0.4895 BTC [+]
14:54	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.24 = 1.2 BTC [-]
14:59	mircea_popescu	why ?
15:00	mircea_popescu	if anyone missed it, the latest debate with datskovskiy is raging even now http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/some-basic-discussion-of-bitcoin-macroeconomy/#comment-93049
15:00	benkay	presumably for basement mining hardware?
15:02	jurov	i tried to point out that shitcoins are akin to banknotes that you can remotely tamper with their value
15:02	cads	asciilifeform: what's your 3d printing background?
15:02	jurov	and thus obviously nobody is interested in accepting them
15:02	jurov	but it went nowhere
15:03	cads	what I heard was a lot about printing guns, without any mention of things like the thingiverse, the form 1, makerbot industry's successes, the fact that the staples is rolling out a 3d printer that will be sold from their stores (the cubify offering).
15:04	cads	3d printed guns is about 1 year old
15:04	cads	and the whole topic is only for lunatics
15:05	cads	this is like judging bitcoin solely on the characteristics of its use in the silk road.
15:06	cads	appplications for 3d printing are amazingly wide ranging. The cubify is a mass produced unit in the $1200 range, intended for crafts and hobbies, school classrooms, children, and so on.
15:07	cads	it's also misleading to say that 3d printers require the same CAD/CAM work that mills require
15:07	benkay	mircea_popescu GPG identity management services will eclipse the engineering payroll? o.O please correct my interpretation of what you said on the other side of that link
15:08	mircea_popescu	nope, that's it.
15:09	mircea_popescu	identity management will be larger than engineering.
15:09	cads	asciilifeform: this is not true - for a well tuned commercial printer, the process of turning a 3d design into gcode is almost trivial. Coding g-code for a cnc mill is amazingly hard for high complexity parts, and often requires the production of specialized tooling and setup costs for each new part you produce
15:10	kakobrekla	you dont code g-code
15:10	kakobrekla	nobody does that
15:10	cads	no, you synthesize it
15:10	kakobrekla	yea
15:11	benkay	or
15:11	benkay	print the big form
15:11	benkay	carve off the bits you need for dimensional correctness with a mill
15:11	benkay	let the printer do the complex geometry
15:13	cads	Yep. the print time of a part scales with the part's volume. The milling time of a contoured part scales with the amount of material removed, but more importantly, with the feature count of the surface produced.
15:13	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.01255 = 0.0377 BTC [+]
15:14	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196138.0
15:14	mircea_popescu	i think we all seen that ?
15:15	benkay	print time vastly exceeds cut time
15:15	benkay	cut time is lols for plastic
15:16	ThickAsThieves	why 54 u?
15:17	mircea_popescu	5430 satoshi
15:17	mircea_popescu	not sure how he picked it but looks bellybutton sourced
15:17	ThickAsThieves	meh i guess i dont really care about the answer
15:17	benkay	just barely less than a cent today
15:17	ThickAsThieves	it seems like something theyll end up removing in the future, so why add it
15:17	benkay	100 bucks at some far future point
15:17	ThickAsThieves	maybe to prevent some kind of spam attack?
15:18	jurov	they copied litecoin
15:19	kakobrekla	i dont like it
15:19	jurov	you can research what was the motivation in ltc case, maybe it was really spam
15:20	jurov	or marketing or rape
15:21	ThickAsThieves	or porn in the code!
15:22	mircea_popescu	im not sure why they're not just letting the tx fee decide
15:22	mircea_popescu	but whatever.
15:22	mircea_popescu	ah, actually, there is a reason
15:22	mircea_popescu	we are choked by nonadoption/node death
15:23	mircea_popescu	consequently there's no way to outcompete dust txs, cause you don't pay a fee to be relayed
15:23	mircea_popescu	tbh the no-relay-fee is probably the grossest fundamental oversight in the design of bitcoin
15:24	mircea_popescu	and it allows no easy fox
15:24	mircea_popescu	fix*
15:24	ThickAsThieves	guess we'll have to just wait for diablocoins
15:25	benkay	nonadoption of new version numbers?
15:26	jordandotdev	does anyone know if bitfinex has an irc channel?
15:27	ThickAsThieves	i had a thought about altcoin manipulaiton today, it seems that every new altcoin that pops up, magically has buyers on BTC-E. I wonder if it'd be feasible to support new coins so as to keep the difficulty low on the one coin you really want to control and prop up later, like litecoin. You get everyone to move their hashes elsewhere, and then keep reaping LTC, then you pull the plug
15:27	ThickAsThieves	one day on all the alts.
15:28	cads	benkay: lets talk more about 3dp later - I think there is a great future in personal desktop-based manufacturing, and it seems like 3dp is positioned to bring it to the consumer. There are lots of points of contention I'd love to chat about, but I gotta jet.
15:29	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves pretty much the pump and dump they're running
15:29	ThickAsThieves	they can even make money pumping the alts too, it just seems like it's a house of cards
15:29	kakobrekla	seems this alt chain thingy comes in cycles
15:29	mircea_popescu	yup
15:30	mircea_popescu	btc-e is pretty much the reason nobody takes alts seriously
15:30	kakobrekla	together with bubbles
15:30	kakobrekla	or when was the last alt chain hype
15:30	kakobrekla	ixcoin and i0coin and whatnot
15:30	ThickAsThieves	so the question is, which, if any, altcoin is the "real" altcoin
15:31	kakobrekla	bitcoin is preety alt
15:31	mircea_popescu	ltc may have a chance. maybe.
15:32	mircea_popescu	tho the "mmo" idiots beat up in btc moved there, and it's prolly going to be the internet marketeer reservation
15:36	ThickAsThieves	cryto-trade.com was supposed to be a BTC-e competitor, but now it seems it was about as scammy as we thought
15:37	ThickAsThieves	crypto-trade.com *
15:38	asciilifeform	damn, went off to meatspace for a spell and missed all the fun here.
15:40	benkay	there's a log now
15:40	benkay	public and everything
15:41	asciilifeform	I got a month of running log, sure
15:46	asciilifeform	re: 3d printers: I work with a guy who is a serious solid printing enthusiast (five figure investment in various attempts, and most of his spare time.) he prints objects like phone charging cradles and parts for model aircraft.
15:46	asciilifeform	my argument isn't that solid printing is a waste of time (it is an interesting hobby) but that it is unlikely to displace industrial production for any everyday object
15:47	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ever ?
15:47	asciilifeform	I wouldn't say "ever", but it is about the same as home CNC machining
15:47	mircea_popescu	i tell you, originally they thought the same of industrial robots.
15:47	mircea_popescu	clunky, hopeless things.
15:47	asciilifeform	i.e. you need actual brains to make a useful object, to spec
15:47	mircea_popescu	ie, yuou need brains to climb stairs.
15:48	asciilifeform	even speaking solely of plastic objects where materials strength is unimportant, the main issue appears to be warping/distortion
15:49	asciilifeform	example: my colleague prints an iphone cradle, brings in five attempts. the phone fits in the fifth, but only because he threw in the towel and took a hand file to it
15:49	asciilifeform	the next day he brings in two pieces
15:50	asciilifeform	(it snapped)
15:50	asciilifeform	this doesn't prove anything in particular, granted
15:50	asciilifeform	other than the fact that real-world materials behave in all kinds of interesting ways
15:50	asciilifeform	and not at all like the ideal solid you see on the CAD screen
15:52	asciilifeform	btw, industrial robots are an instructive example, because in some fields they are available, but it is very difficult to get people to trust them for all but the simplest operations
15:52	mircea_popescu	except they do everything pretty much.
15:52	mircea_popescu	a fucking CAT scan is you fucking a robot.
15:53	kakobrekla	lol
15:53	asciilifeform	the hardware is superb, the vendor software: abysmal.
15:53	asciilifeform	at least in the pharma sector.
15:54	asciilifeform	I actually sell a replacement for the latter in one of my day jobs: http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html
15:54	asciilifeform	almost everyone seems to prefer grad students pushing pipettes, though
15:54	asciilifeform	given that the robot goes for $250K
15:54	mircea_popescu	lol basically making macros for computer illiterate folk ?
15:54	asciilifeform	just that
15:54	asciilifeform	except that in this particular case it works better
15:55	asciilifeform	(e.g. you don't have to measure the physical objects and fit them to a coordinate grid)
15:55	asciilifeform	most of the operations in high-throughput pharma screening are repetitive
15:55	benkay	grad schools suffer from an excess of cheap labor
15:55	mircea_popescu	^
15:55	mircea_popescu	t\hey don't really WANT to replace the students
15:56	mircea_popescu	because they get most of their income from pretending those students doing boring shit are "gaining"
15:56	mircea_popescu	killed 1 rat gained 5xp
15:56	benkay	they don't understand the costs of institutionally embedded knowledge either
15:56	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: trust me, I know
15:56	asciilifeform	but in a few dark corners of the world, results actually matter
15:56	asciilifeform	(outside the academia pesthole, but even then, by far not always)
15:59	mircea_popescu	The Entropia Universe client is designed to operate on Microsoft compatible PC:s running Microsoft Windows as an operating system. It is not designed to run natively under Mac OS X or Linux.
15:59	mircea_popescu	However, your Mac running OS X or PC running Linux that meet the hardware system requirements for Entropia Universe may also be able to run Microsoft Windows, the operating system needed to run the Entropia Universe client software.
15:59	mircea_popescu	fucking retards ?!
15:59	benkay	yeah what is this entropica
15:59	asciilifeform	wat
15:59	benkay	gives me installer
15:59	benkay	wants to play
16:00	mircea_popescu	"your broken linux computer could be fixed by installing windoze"
16:00	mircea_popescu	wtf is this shit
16:01	truff1es	<benkay> there's a log now>>> where?
16:01	asciilifeform	most commercial software may as well have this nonsense printed on the box. it is certainly there, between the lines.
16:01	benkay	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com
16:01	truff1es	k thanks
16:01	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 839 @ 0.0006992 = 0.5866 BTC [+]
16:02	truff1es	my comments are on 1st page hmmm
16:02	truff1es	of today
16:03	benkay	also on the entropica topic
16:03	benkay	I have a feeling that parameterizing the space and understanding how the engine works is vastly more useful than any existing software package
16:04	benkay	also i have yet to see it run in real time
16:04	benkay	and it looks a little computationally intensive
16:06	benkay	"just run monte carlos over the whole space and optimize for availability of future paths"
16:06	benkay	"during each iteration of control loop"
16:06	benkay	well, each iteration may be overkill
16:06	benkay	!
16:06	mircea_popescu	i need someone to code me a mmorpg
16:06	benkay	and if you stay in the pre-calculated space you might be able to avoid re-running the sims
16:07	Namworld	[16:06] <mircea_popescu> i need someone to code me a mmorpg
16:08	Namworld	"Retards: a Bitcoin Story"?
16:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00070573 = 10.5507 BTC [+]
16:09	Namworld	With colorful bitcointalk.org people as NPCs and a whole lot of cheap jokes and parody?
16:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2087 @ 0.00070573 = 1.4729 BTC [+]
16:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1972 @ 0.00070787 = 1.3959 BTC [+]
16:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3086 @ 0.00070983 = 2.1905 BTC [+]
16:09	benkay	hoho
16:10	benkay	"you enter bitcoin-assets and are instantly covered in buckets of semen"
16:10	jurov	mirceeeeeaaaaa y u no ntp synchronize?
16:11	jurov	i'm pulling my hair out over an issue that boils down to trade execution dates few second before the orders were placed
16:11	jurov	on mpex
16:12	jurov	mircea_popescu, ur timewarp enginez are misaligned ^^^
16:13	benkay	he's probably yelling at the monkeys
16:14	mircea_popescu	Namworld lol maybe
16:14	mircea_popescu	jurov because the server does not have an internet connection.
16:14	mircea_popescu	time synch is a mutherfuckin pain
16:15	mircea_popescu	basically you're stuck synching to mpex rather than expecting real time having any impact
16:16	benkay	do you have something available for ntp to peer to?
16:16	mircea_popescu	nope.
16:16	jurov	but it even diverges from time given in stat header
16:16	mircea_popescu	now that's rare wtf.
16:17	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.108899 BTC [+]
16:17	mircea_popescu	jurov is it the case right now or was it in the past ?
16:17	jurov	it manifests since yesterday
16:18	mircea_popescu	dude usure ?
16:20	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.24 = 2.48 BTC [-]
16:21	mircea_popescu	it;s like 10 seconds behind oddly.
16:22	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you can synch time on a non-networked server using a GPS/GLONASS/Beidou-1 receiver
16:22	mircea_popescu	yeah but that doesn't fit ;/
16:22	asciilifeform	make sure to tune in all three constellations, as someone may want to fuck with you via signal spoofing
16:22	asciilifeform	doesn't fit?
16:23	asciilifeform	what are you using, a Palm Pilot?
16:23	mircea_popescu	lol
16:23	mircea_popescu	hahaha
16:23	jurov	stat relative to other data inside seems to be okay. whole thing including http headers has offset
16:23	asciilifeform	is is secreted in a slave girl's arse?
16:24	asciilifeform	you can get the receiver on a usb stick, and it will fit even there
16:24	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the only stuff like that i've seen is roughly larger than a server blade
16:24	mircea_popescu	and has to be so and so emplaced etc
16:24	mircea_popescu	jurov that'd be normal as the outer layer of servers ashould be more or less on normal time
16:24	asciilifeform	the industrial products, sure. but with a consumer stick the functionality is the same, minus the steel case.
16:25	asciilifeform	the girl will have to bend her arse towards the sky when you want to sync
16:25	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well provider i use didn;'t have your stick and i didn't press the issue
16:25	asciilifeform	and of course you maintain a local server, that the radio signal can only over-ride by a second or so delta either way
16:25	jurov	2013-05-05 21:09:15,655 [mpex]:DEBUG:Response headers: [('Date', ['Sun, 05 May 2013 19:09:06 GMT']), << this is HTTP Date header from outer layer I guess
16:26	jurov	and it's 10 sec off, too
16:26	mircea_popescu	yeah
16:26	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.23 BTC [-]
16:26	mircea_popescu	was this progressive and only now noticed or did it just happen ?!
16:26	asciilifeform	or buy a cesium timepiece yourself (4 figures USD on ebay) or a rhubidium one if you're a cheapskate.
16:26	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.226 BTC [-]
16:26	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i can't get radioactive material into that space ;/
16:26	asciilifeform	neither is radioactive
16:27	asciilifeform	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesium_clock
16:27	mircea_popescu	its decay innit ?
16:27	asciilifeform	only stable isotopes are used in a clock
16:27	asciilifeform	nothing to do with decay
16:27	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 44 @ 0.01255 = 0.5522 BTC [+]
16:27	asciilifeform	microwave resonance of the element in question
16:28	mircea_popescu	a ok
16:28	asciilifeform	a clock based on nuclear decay would suck
16:28	mircea_popescu	aaanyways.
16:28	mircea_popescu	jurov so basically, the situation here is that the stat time and the tx time inside the stat is consistent
16:28	asciilifeform	seriously, even the dinkiest fm radio station has a rhubidium clock (to help stay in its purchased frequency band.)
16:28	asciilifeform	mpex can afford it
16:28	mircea_popescu	but this not necessarily consistent with other time signals such as http headers
16:28	mircea_popescu	is this correct ?
16:29	jurov	now it looks like both stat time, tx time and http headers are ~10 sec off
16:29	mod6	http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u99f2/
16:30	mircea_popescu	mpex is creating its own timezone.
16:31	asciilifeform	btw, the extent to which btc users can be fucked with through ntp spoofing is non-zero and quite interesting to contemplate.
16:32	asciilifeform	somebody ought to make a quick buck marketing usb rhubidium clocks to "supernode" fellows
16:32	kakobrekla	theres market for at least one
16:32	jurov	on May 2 and before there was only 1 sec difference
16:33	jurov	searchign for the point where it went bad...
16:33	kakobrekla	just dont fuck up the matrix
16:35	jurov	how could i fuck it? i just can claim "this is the point when matrix took over"
16:35	kakobrekla	o
16:35	kakobrekla	someone called for cream with cherry on top https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196150.0
16:36	asciilifeform	also, I should note that, AFAIK, neither GPS, nor GLONASS, nor Beidou use crypto authentication for the time signal (or the coordinates!) so you could still be spoofed, if someone were interested.
16:36	asciilifeform	hence buying your own clock.
16:37	mircea_popescu	anyway should be all synced
16:37	kakobrekla	genjix: Tihan is a manipulative sociopath.
16:37	kakobrekla	lolz
16:37	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah and yeah.
16:37	mircea_popescu	these are the sorts of things nobody knows about. mpex too paranoid to allow ntp, mtgox buys more ram.
16:39	kakobrekla	>>Oh, and next time you trash and break a Segway in Vienna that Alex paid for because some fat girl offers you a hug...DONT RUN AWAY AND LEAVE THE SEGWAY IN THE STREET!!!!!! (true story for whoever wants to know. Roger, Erik and myself were there)
16:39	kakobrekla	lol wtf
16:41	mircea_popescu	wtf ?!
16:41	kakobrekla	follow last retardcointalk url
16:42	mircea_popescu	The site had been losing money for months
16:42	mircea_popescu	ha!
16:42	mircea_popescu	who was contradicting me last week ?
16:42	jurov	asciilifeform: iirc iranians spoofed btc already and captured a drone
16:42	asciilifeform	jurov: yes, exactly
16:42	kakobrekla	mircea_popescu tbh could be just some bull.
16:42	jurov	*spoofed gps , not btc :)
16:43	asciilifeform	jurov: the funniest part is that the drone could have been using the military (authenticated) channel, but wasn't - because of "lowest bidder" hardware on board.
16:43	assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [-]
16:43	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the dirty secret there is that the military chan is tyoo slow.
16:43	asciilifeform	jurov: all the Iranians had to do was broadcast the coordinates of the U.S. airbase the drone was to return to.
16:48	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196150.msg2039674#msg2039674
16:48	mircea_popescu	all bitcoin has is one fat girl and a broken segway.
16:58	assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 3 @ 0.003199 = 0.0096 BTC [+]
16:58	assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 97 @ 0.0032 = 0.3104 BTC [+]
		~ 18 minutes ~
17:17	kakobrekla	lawl mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196189.msg2040113#msg2040113
17:17	assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19 BTC [-]
17:17	mircea_popescu	lol
17:19	benkay	git status
17:19	benkay	oh derp
17:20	mircea_popescu	benkay were you asking me about the previous one ?
17:25	mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=186185.msg2037118#msg2037118 it reminds him of the movie
17:25	mircea_popescu	dun dun dun
17:25	kakobrekla	MOAR https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194494.0
17:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.465 = 2.93 BTC [+]
17:27	benkay	don't know what you're talking about, mircea_popescu
17:28	mircea_popescu	mpoe-pr was telling the previous new-exchange-idiot to pack it
17:28	mircea_popescu	and you were asking me whay or something
17:28	truff1es	lol new level of arrogance
17:28	benkay	no, i accidentally terminaled into x-chat
17:28	benkay	>>bashed in x-chat
17:29	benkay	are you referencing a conversation from a few days back?
17:30	truff1es	benkay the assumption here is that you repsonded to his praise of his pr person
17:31	dub	how long should I air dry computers that have been washed
17:32	inhies	wat
17:32	benkay	did you use detergent?
17:32	dub	no, just rain water
17:32	benkay	ah i would wash them again then
17:32	mircea_popescu	dub a week
17:33	dub	transporting command center to new dubhouse, had kayak on roof and water tracked along roof racks
17:33	dub	helpfully washing a laptop and mining rig
17:35	mircea_popescu	lol
17:36	mircea_popescu	you aid computer not laptop.
17:36	mircea_popescu	a laptop is basically neversafe to use again, unless you take it apart.
17:38	dub	well the saving grace is its battery is completely dead, only works with power attached so hopefully no residual power to short anything
17:40	mircea_popescu	I am just speculating but it seems to me that Mircea isn't really a racist even though he could have conveyed his point more gently by considering the history of racism and ethnic discrimination in the U.S. and the fact that Bitcoin is popular within the same demographic of people that will actually read him, despite his Armenian descent he could have been more considerate of other nations
17:40	mircea_popescu	o.o
17:42	kakobrekla	now that ppl accually read you, you must watch your mouth
17:42	mircea_popescu	but why am i armenian
17:42	mircea_popescu	he thinks im maddox ?!
17:43	kakobrekla	make "im better than your wife" page
17:44	mircea_popescu	lol
17:44	mircea_popescu	tyhat may be dangerousd
17:50	dub	!ticker b asicminer-pt
17:50	assbot	The vision of Christ that thou dost see ... is my vision's greatest enemy.
17:51	dub	!ticker btctc asicminer-pt
17:51	assbot	[BTCT:ASICMINER-PT] 1D: 1.12 / 1.20323 / 1.268999 (303 shares, 364.6 BTC), 7D: 1.12 / 1.25659 / 1.32475 (1650 shares, 2073.4 BTC), 30D: 0.6269 / 1.05905 / 1.75 (6980 shares, 7392.2 BTC)
17:52	dub	btctctfctctc worst brand ever
17:52	kakobrekla	you can use bt for short
18:05	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.465 BTC [+]
		~ 20 minutes ~
18:25	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.01255 = 0.1255 BTC [+]
18:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.3194 = 2.5552 BTC [+]
18:28	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 1.21001 = 3.63 BTC [-]
18:32	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.01255 = 0.0628 BTC [+]
18:37	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2 BTC [-]
18:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00070862 = 9.9915 BTC [-]
		~ 15 minutes ~
18:53	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu:
19:05	mjr___	sup everyone
19:07	kakobrekla	heya
19:08	truff1es	whats on today mjr?
19:13	mircea_popescu	not much
19:15	kakobrekla	>Small issues friend. We are attempting to make our exchange very reputable. I don't see value this year, but 10 years down the road when crypto-currencies are truly the trend. Our vision is to build a long lasting product for our market - We need a good team to do that.
19:15	kakobrekla	omg!
19:15	kakobrekla	>I should have been clear on the aspect of the design and basic functionality - I think bitstamp is a clean interface but you are right, they have their flaws. Engine wise, I'd look towards the process MtGox is taking on and the partnerships they have forged with various companies to increase their survival (see: Prolexic partnership).
19:15	kakobrekla	he said survival.
19:16	mircea_popescu	so dear assets ppl, help me see what classics i've missed.
19:16	mircea_popescu	played the entire heroes of might and magic series,
19:16	mircea_popescu	played most ultima
19:16	mircea_popescu	played gothic
19:16	mircea_popescu	played wizardry
19:17	mircea_popescu	baldur's gate and all the stuff on that engine
19:20	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2 BTC [-]
19:24	thestringpuller	;;calc 43.48 / 1.60
19:24	gribble	27.175
19:24	thestringpuller	;;calc 43.40 / 1.60
19:24	gribble	27.125
19:24	thestringpuller	;;calc 43.20 / 1.60
19:24	gribble	27
19:25	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu you haven't played vidya games until you've played mega man 2
19:25	thestringpuller	jkjk
19:26	mjr___	any JS devs here
19:28	zebedee_	The bitcoin blocks are flying right now.
19:34	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.1081 = 0.2162 BTC [-]
19:36	thestringpuller	;;calc .25*46.48
19:36	gribble	11.62
19:36	thestringpuller	;;calc .75*46.48
19:36	gribble	34.86
19:36	thestringpuller	;;calc 55 - 34.86
19:36	gribble	20.14
19:37	benkay	mircea_popescu are you still looking for classics?
19:38	mircea_popescu	sure
19:38	benkay	DWARF FORTRESS
19:39	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]
19:39	kakobrekla	;;bc,stats
19:39	gribble	Current Blocks: 234719 | Current Difficulty: 1.0076292883418716E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 235871 | Next Difficulty In: 1152 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 23 hours, 33 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10449088.1411 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.69973
19:39	mircea_popescu	um
19:39	mircea_popescu	i nev er played that one ?!
19:40	mircea_popescu	lol what's this, 2006 rogue ?
		~ 53 minutes ~
20:34	dub	;;nethash
20:34	gribble	77399.968439
20:36	dub	in happier news my new local chinese takeout has a street fighter 2 machine
20:41	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.01255 = 0.1883 BTC [+]
20:49	mjr___	hey all, if you are interested
20:50	mjr___	check out my new blog post at blog.btcshares.com
20:50	mjr___	work in progress
20:50	mjr___	can't get comments to work right yet
20:52	truff1es	blogs of people ive chatted 1 vs 1 are more interesting to me ive found
20:52	truff1es	what kind of content?
20:53	truff1es	i can be a harsh critic if u want my brutal honesty let me know :)
20:55	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.01255 = 0.0502 BTC [+]
20:56	tiberiusiv	??seen bugpowder
20:56	tiberiusiv	so once again im proven correct when i said bitcoin wouldnt sell off because of the lawsuit
20:56	tiberiusiv	while bugpowder claimed we would have a weekend sell off
20:57	mjr___	truff1es: harsh is fine
20:57	truff1es	some people just cant handle it u know
20:57	mjr___	as far as content, it WILL be stuff related to bitcoin, my views on the current news of bitcoin, my ideas about future projects...
20:58	truff1es	k
20:58	mjr___	personal views on bitcoin related things, i guess to summarize
20:58	truff1es	i like what uve written, very readable
20:58	mjr___	So this is a rough draft first start
20:58	truff1es	the actual page presentation dont like
20:58	mjr___	mainly trying to show the history of community based exchanges and how this could work for bitcoin
20:58	mjr___	I might change the them
20:58	mjr___	theme
20:59	mjr___	love some feedback on that
20:59	KRS-1	dont hold your breath
20:59	truff1es	the highlighted part is like glaring at me
20:59	mjr___	hahaha
20:59	KRS-1	fontas said all cryptocurrency will die off
20:59	mjr___	yeah, that was due to the copy and paste
20:59	mjr___	oh well if fontas said it...
20:59	KRS-1	he has spoken [silence]
20:59	joecool	mircea_popescu: why don't you go in #bitcoin-otc anymore?
20:59	KRS-1	lol
21:00	mjr___	truff1es: i think i'll edit the formatting on the copy and pasted parts...i'll see if there is a different way to show that they are not my words
21:00	truff1es	just have block quotes then?
21:01	truff1es	indent it..
21:03	truff1es	lots of historical things here, kinda holding back from compulsively fact checking
21:05	mjr___	truff1es: you are welcome to fact check
21:05	mjr___	though most of it is not very controversial
21:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4514 @ 0.00070983 = 3.2042 BTC [+]
21:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5786 @ 0.00071081 = 4.1127 BTC [+]
21:05	truff1es	yea ive come across this already..
21:06	mjr___	It was not questionable enough for me to bother with citations
21:06	mjr___	though i may be a bit more academically rigorous in the futuer
21:06	truff1es	only because of ur content i make that point
21:07	truff1es	seriousness of it or something
21:08	truff1es	what puzzles me about mtgox and bitcoin is why the need for id..
21:08	truff1es	should be optional
21:09	mjr___	yes of course
21:09	mjr___	but they rely on banking system
21:09	mjr___	hence id's and aml and kyc and etc etc
21:10	mjr___	if this reaches critical mass we can bypass all of that
21:12	mjr___	slight change to annoy the glaring copy paste
21:13	mjr___	ugh i wish i could make it commentable by anyone
21:14	kakobrekla	wp install is 2min
21:15	truff1es	geo-location features hmmm
21:15	truff1es	no to drone strike
21:15	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.222 BTC [+]
21:16	tiberiusiv	;;asks 50
21:16	gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 50.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0041 seconds
21:16	tiberiusiv	;;bids 50
21:16	gribble	There are currently 168769.47 bitcoins demanded at or over 50.0 USD, worth 13655295.8024 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.7688 seconds
21:16	truff1es	i dont think i like this color scheme
21:16	tiberiusiv	;;bids 100
21:16	gribble	There are currently 38558.078 bitcoins demanded at or over 100.0 USD, worth 4173894.5056 USD in total. | Data vintage: 9.3899 seconds
21:16	tiberiusiv	;;asks 200
21:16	gribble	There are currently 111318.88 bitcoins offered at or under 200.0 USD, worth 16734739.414 USD in total. | Data vintage: 15.3346 seconds
21:17	tiberiusiv	;;asks 150
21:17	gribble	There are currently 65599.796 bitcoins offered at or under 150.0 USD, worth 8940923.01739 USD in total. | Data vintage: 22.5084 seconds
21:17	joecool	!asks 1
21:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.2 BTC [-]
21:19	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 1.2 = 3.6 BTC [-]
21:21	mjr___	so, content wise: ___
21:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00070897 = 9.5711 BTC [-]
21:21	mjr___	color-scheme: ____
21:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00070862 = 5.9524 BTC [-]
21:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.00069899 = 0.6291 BTC [-]
21:21	truff1es	good read
21:21	mjr___	just so you know, i don't really care about the second one
21:21	truff1es	terrible
21:21	truff1es	lol
21:21	mjr___	i'll see if i can do something else
21:21	truff1es	is this like BitInstant?
21:21	mjr___	no
21:21	mjr___	not at all
21:21	mjr___	i will hold no coins or fiat
21:22	mjr___	all clearing is done p2p
21:22	mjr___	just info
21:22	assbot	[BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 1 @ 0.699 BTC [+]
21:22	mjr___	and consensus building
21:22	mjr___	if other cities want to set up an open air exchange, they could all ideally figure out where and when using app
21:22	mjr___	geolocate is not a "requirement" in fact, the whole site will have as few requirements as possible
21:23	truff1es	a blog explaining the process would be great
21:23	mjr___	hmmm, post 2 i suppose
21:23	truff1es	yea
21:23	truff1es	its fuzzy to me atm
21:23	mjr___	basically, i have a bunch of people meeting me in union square tomorrow
21:23	mjr___	they are all there to trade bitcoins
21:24	mjr___	so for now (unless i get this site up in less than 18 hours) they will need to walk around to each other person, or yell it out
21:24	mjr___	they will have to calculate how much they are buying and selling
21:24	mjr___	they will not know necessarily what the other 2 people bought or sold for
21:24	mjr___	they could know
21:24	mjr___	but may not
21:25	mjr___	so project buttonwood is aiming to solve those issues
21:25	mjr___	ideally you can just easily see an order book and either place an order or take an order already listed
21:25	mjr___	with cash settlement on the spot
21:25	inhies	f u btct.co
21:25	inhies	y ur api dum
21:25	mjr___	(hence GPS, if you aren't there i can't take your order huh?)
21:26	truff1es	have an irc link or something ppl enter when needed
21:26	mjr___	IRC still doesn't maintain a best bid and ask
21:26	mjr___	though i think i will link this to an IRC channel as well
21:26	mjr___	also IRC won't have a one button solution to taking an order
21:26	mjr___	but, you are on the right track somewhat
21:27	truff1es	oh its just for the geolocation aspect
21:27	mjr___	think a chatroom/messageboard where all messages are orders and they are sorted and displayed a certain way
21:27	mjr___	for example: 1btc for $115 is not useful
21:27	mjr___	but that is how prices are shown
21:28	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.4663 = 0.9326 BTC [+]
21:28	mjr___	but for cash, $20 for .243 bitcoin is useful
21:28	mjr___	since i have a $20 bill
21:28	mjr___	i think i will denominate trades in $10 bill increments...not sure, $20 is more common to have, but also bigger size
21:29	truff1es	no change huh
21:29	mjr___	I added some pics of possible looks at the bottom
21:29	mjr___	i mean...you could use change if you want
21:29	mjr___	but do you really want to?
21:29	mjr___	bitcoin is easily split up into whatever amount you need, dollars aren't
21:30	truff1es	at any money i have so much random loose change on me
21:30	mjr___	anyways, the web app will be a facilitator of trade
21:30	toffoo	mjr___ i just finished your blog post, sounds really interesting, best of luck with the project!
21:30	mjr___	thanks toffoo
21:30	thestringpuller	;;ticker
21:30	gribble	BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 115.78021, Best ask: 115.99697, Bid-ask spread: 0.21676, Last trade: 115.99997, 24 hour volume: 84071.33502587, 24 hour low: 107.00000, 24 hour high: 118.85000, 24 hour vwap: 113.57700
21:31	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4663 BTC [+]
21:31	mjr___	again, the app is not necessary...you are free to show up (the fact i would say that is only because people don't understand) and do whatever you want
21:31	mjr___	you are by default free to do whatever you want
21:31	truff1es	i think i get the general idea
21:32	mjr___	if the app makes your life easier (address prepopulated into webwallet/coinapult) etc
21:32	truff1es	a few things are fuzzy
21:32	mjr___	then enjoy it
21:32	truff1es	post write up maybe i pinpoint it
21:32	mjr___	once you get this first level idea to spread, then brokers could deal cross exchange
21:33	mjr___	integrate with #bitcoin-otc
21:33	mjr___	etc
21:33	mjr___	I guess I will write a follow-up to specify how i see it playing out
21:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00071081 = 9.7736 BTC [+]
21:34	truff1es	your system could facilitate widespread bitcoin adaptation
21:35	truff1es	getting past the hurdle of explaining it to the average joe will be biggest imo
		~ 32 minutes ~
22:07	tiberiusiv	;;last
22:07	gribble	[19:35:11] <truff1es> getting past the hurdle of explaining it to the average joe will be biggest imo
22:07	tiberiusiv	;;price
22:07	gribble	Error: "price" is not a valid command.
22:08	assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 1.2 = 3.6 BTC [-]
22:08	assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.1081 = 2.162 BTC [-]
22:08	dub	I just got burned by china
22:09	dub	goddamn lazy ass motherfuckers
22:09	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 3 @ 0.01555 = 0.0467 BTC [+]
22:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 13 @ 0.01599 = 0.2079 BTC [+]
22:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 49 @ 0.015998 = 0.7839 BTC [+]
22:10	assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 35 @ 0.015999 = 0.56 BTC [+]
22:11	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.01255 BTC [+]
22:11	mjr___	http://blog.btcshares.com/follow-up
22:11	mjr___	truff1es: there is the follow up piece
22:11	mjr___	a lot less formal
22:11	mjr___	this is practice to the former's theory
22:14	truff1es	will read in a few, too much on my screen laggg
22:17	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.01255 = 0.0628 BTC [+]
22:21	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.01255 BTC [+]
22:22	truff1es	User XYZ is the one selling, and AHA he has a btc address linked to his user profile, with one tap, i see his wallet contains 1.2 bitcoins. >>> is this just to explain or is this part of the app
22:22	mjr___	this would be part of the app, you can link a btc address and the app will do a mouseover with info from blockexplorer or bitcoininfo
22:23	mjr___	we are talking specs right now
22:23	mjr___	not what it actually does, which is say hello to bob and show the time
22:23	mjr___	if you choose to link an address you can load that address with coins so people know you have coins for sale and are not just bullshitting
22:23	truff1es	our hero gives the guy $80, and User XYZ presses send, the coins fly on their way to their new owner.>>> what about physical security?
22:24	mjr___	physical?
22:24	mjr___	i mean...
22:24	mjr___	compare and contrast scenario 1 and 2...my web app can't physically protect you
22:24	mjr___	BUT
22:25	mjr___	compared to localbitcoins which is "meet me in this alley over here" (joking but it is let me meet this guy i don't know)
22:25	mjr___	would you really feel like walking into a group of people and saying give me the cash and then running?
22:25	truff1es	people rob banks though
22:25	mjr___	i would say LESS likely than in a one on one scenario
22:25	mjr___	yes
22:25	mjr___	true
22:25	mjr___	because of risk/reward
22:26	mjr___	your reward in this scenario is small, with very high risks
22:26	mjr___	i picked a public park for a reason
22:26	mjr___	police presence
22:26	truff1es	hit and run though
22:27	dub	how does that work?
22:27	truff1es	it would be better if it were among a group of people im familiar with like say irc chat group
22:27	dub	you grab the other party and run away with them?
22:27	mjr___	dub: LOL
22:27	mjr___	you would have to walk up to a group of people...get them all to hand over cash or bitcoins...all while attracting no attention
22:27	mjr___	and again, you would be in the middle of a groiup
22:28	mjr___	and if you have seen parks
22:28	mjr___	they are big grassy areas...the cops are usually on the sidewalks around the park
22:28	dub	I think its a good place if there are police around
22:28	mjr___	in fact, in union square the subway station is below the park and has its own precinct
22:28	mjr___	but fine, let's say starbucks
22:28	truff1es	people rob banks
22:28	mjr___	you would walk into starbucks, and do armed robbery
22:28	mjr___	ok...
22:28	mjr___	your point being that banks will never work?
22:29	truff1es	need something other than for me to trust that a cop will come to my aide
22:29	mjr___	...
22:29	mjr___	so how would you do a transaction now
22:29	mjr___	gox?
22:29	mjr___	this isn't for people who have gox
22:29	mjr___	this is for people who don't want to use gox
22:29	mjr___	or for people who want to get a better rate than gox
22:29	mjr___	or sell for more than gox offers
22:30	mjr___	its localbitcoins with much better features
22:30	mjr___	and again, i am not selling it
22:30	mjr___	i dn't really care, if it is valuable it succeeds, if not, it doesn't
22:30	mjr___	point is there are 10-15 people meeting up in union square tomorrow
22:30	dub	its a lot safer to have a larger group than two involved too
22:30	mjr___	in a group of 40 it was unanimous
22:30	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 22 @ 0.01255 = 0.2761 BTC [+]
22:31	mjr___	dub: exactly the point of this
22:31	mjr___	groups are self-policing
22:31	mjr___	and in an animalistic sense, they offer protection from lone attackers
22:31	dub	pretty hard to controll a group that size, coerce them into giving up keys etc, in a busy public area with LE around
22:31	kakobrekla	police will be like "ooo whats this suspicious group of people, they seem to be handling cash amongs each other and typing on their phones, must be some sort of interweb drugs, lets bust em all"
22:31	mjr___	yes
22:31	mjr___	kakobrekla; that is the balancing act
22:31	dub	a lot harder than robbing a bank
22:32	mjr___	kakobrekla: not too shady for cops to care, but cops still there if needed
22:32	mjr___	i think the key to that is sitting down
22:32	dub	maybe if you all did some kind of dance as well
22:32	mjr___	you look like a group of friends if you are sitting, AND someone can't run as easily
22:32	mjr___	dub: no thanks...i have my limits
22:32	kakobrekla	lol dub
22:32	dub	the police will assume you are a bunch of assholes from the internet
22:32	kakobrekla	:D
22:33	dub	or wear LARP costumes
22:33	mjr___	oh noes! its the silk road!
22:33	mjr___	dub: ok, that has some potential
22:33	mjr___	IRL silk road
22:33	mjr___	best business idea ever?
22:33	mjr___	oh wait, its called drug dealing
22:33	kakobrekla	but but!
22:33	kakobrekla	you could be a public broker
22:33	kakobrekla	take cash and orders
22:34	mjr___	hmmm
22:34	mjr___	true
22:34	kakobrekla	order on SR with btc
22:34	mjr___	like those ebay brick and mortars
22:34	kakobrekla	delivery straight to their homes
22:34	mjr___	hmmmm, what would my liability even be?
22:34	mjr___	i never touched cash or drugs
22:34	dub	I think a bunch of suits standing around takign pictures of each others phones is not going to raise to much suspicion
22:34	mjr___	dub: i agree, but also, even better if we can do it without QR codes
22:35	kakobrekla	"ill pay 20 to take a pic of your phone"
22:35	mjr___	hahaha
22:35	kakobrekla	"no ill give you 25"
22:35	mjr___	that is how we sneak under the radar
22:35	mjr___	pics of our phones are very valuable
22:35	mjr___	yes officer, i told him he could take a pic of my phone for $22
22:36	mjr___	thank god this is all being logged
22:36	mjr___	for future generations i mean
22:36	kakobrekla	hehe
22:36	mjr___	we have a duty to our descendants
22:36	dub	use RKOI as cover ,all bring blinged out phone cases and wear rolex
22:36	mjr___	that is actually a great point dub
22:37	mjr___	if people actually dressed nicely, the cops would probably never even think to bother them
22:37	dub	wear four rolex added douchefactor
22:37	mjr___	i'm telling you...there are bars in nyc that are known coke dens
22:37	dub	just don't invite genjix
22:37	mjr___	that have never had a cop inside in ten years
22:37	mjr___	because drug use is not a problem if you have a white collar job
22:38	mjr___	my friend, and this is not a joke, this actually happened, walked into a police station
22:38	dub	yep, tis the same everywhere
22:38	truff1es	or the club is paying the cobs well
22:38	mjr___	to file a report on something else
22:38	mjr___	they asked for his ID
22:38	truff1es	cops*
22:38	kakobrekla	for the record, mjr has white collar job.
22:38	mjr___	he pulled it out with a bag of coke
22:38	mjr___	and handed it to the cop on the counter
22:38	mjr___	the cop, and i am not shitting you, turned his head
22:38	mjr___	and kinda grunted
22:39	mjr___	my friend apologized and picked up his coke
22:39	mjr___	the cop turns back and says now what is this report you want to file
22:39	mjr___	that is the world we live in
22:39	dub	I did almost the same thing
22:39	mjr___	cops could give two shits about a guy causing no trouble who looks decently respectable
22:40	mjr___	you could probably do it in front of them and they would say "really? you can't use the bathroom like everyone else?"
22:40	dub	cop is talkign to me outside a party about whats going on inside, reach in back pocket for cigarette
22:40	dub	put joint in my mouth and go to light it
22:40	mjr___	LOL
22:40	mjr___	i'm guessing story doesn't end with handcuffs
22:41	dub	he's like 'uhh' I go oops, put it away and we keep talking
22:41	mjr___	millions of stories just like that
22:41	mjr___	most cops are cool if you aren't a dick
22:41	assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.01255 BTC [+]
22:41	mjr___	if you look vagrant, or sketchy, or maybe arabic nowadays (sucks but true) they will probably harrass you
22:42	mjr___	actually, i take that back, if you look RELIGIOUSLY arabic they will bother you, rolex and nice suit, go on your way, sir
22:43	mjr___	in fact for pretty much everyone, nice suit is all it takes to become invisible to them
22:43	mjr___	anyways, that was kinda off topic, point is, look like normal humans, don't act crazy, cops will protect and not harrass
22:44	mjr___	and more to the point, that has nothing to do with the idea, the idea ASSUMES that you are already meeting up in a group
22:44	mjr___	because that is ALREADY what is happening tomorrow
22:45	kakobrekla	some massive buying started
22:45	kakobrekla	oh wait
22:45	kakobrekla	im on a short chart
22:46	kakobrekla	nvm, off i go, nite
22:46	dub	http://i.minus.com/ibzpzLmlNNsY4S.gif
22:46	KRS-1	mjr you are right about drug use and white collar jobs..i know for a fact my jobs have suspected me but i never heard anything nor had any tests
22:46	KRS-1	same with coworkers
22:48	dub	dude I have a bunch of drug priors, never been a problem getting employed
22:48	mjr___	yep
22:48	mjr___	i have no record
22:48	dub	not chicken farms either, IBM, other multinationals
22:48	mjr___	truff1es: i agree that you are taking some risks, the point is that you can minimize those risks if you WANT to take part in an IRL transaction, that is what this tries to do
22:48	KRS-1	miami is a lot like NYC except we invented the cocaine and business mix lol
22:49	KRS-1	Whoever thinks coke is not like it was in the 80s in Miami is sorely mistaken.
22:49	KRS-1	Its even more mad.
22:50	mjr___	truff1es: but you also take risks with btc-exchanges or otc, it is a different set of risks, but you could have your exchange shut down (bitfloor, bitcoin-central, etc)
22:50	mjr___	you could have your money stuck in limbo for a week+
22:50	mjr___	you could have a scammer on OTC
22:51	truff1es	is there a max to how much an individual trades?
22:52	kakobrekla	yes
22:52	kakobrekla	21 mio btc
22:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1257 @ 0.00070101 = 0.8812 BTC [-]
22:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00070023 = 8.4728 BTC [-]
22:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6308 @ 0.00069899 = 4.4092 BTC [-]
22:53	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3023 @ 0.00069757 = 2.1088 BTC [-]
22:54	tiberiusiv	miami is not like NYC lol
		↖
22:54	tiberiusiv	where do you get that crap from
22:54	tiberiusiv	miami is a fucked up city
22:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.47529999 = 2.3765 BTC [+]
22:57	tiberiusiv	btc is not heading down as i told bugpowder
22:57	tiberiusiv	why isnt he showing up here lol
23:03	mjr___	kakobrekla: NICE
23:03	mjr___	lol
23:03	mjr___	although...
23:03	mjr___	theoretically he could trade back and forth
23:04	mjr___	buying and selling 21 million bitcoins
23:04	kakobrekla	i thought it was per trade
23:04	mjr___	truff1es: to be serious, since i am not brokering, escrowing, backing or in any way touching your money or your bitcoins, i could care less how much you choose to transact with someone else
23:05	mjr___	as far as taxes, regulations, that is your responsibility to report, pay or whatever
23:05	mjr___	does craigslist limit transactions?
23:05	mjr___	or are they liable for people paying taxes?
23:05	mjr___	think of this as craigslist
23:05	truff1es	never used it
23:06	mjr___	a site that makes mpex look like it was designed by johnny ives
23:06	mjr___	sir johnny ives
23:06	mjr___	lest i be too familiar
23:06	mjr___	kakobrekla: i added some comments to the follow up post to reference the skateboard comment
23:06	truff1es	i think i mightve visited it a few times, might as well do so now
23:07	truff1es	i guess i never really visited the site
23:08	kakobrekla	haha mjr___, skateboards up this motherfucker ya know
23:08	truff1es	mjr it seems ure satisfied with whatve uve came up with, gl
23:09	kakobrekla	maybe ill send one to taaki, as fan
23:10	KRS-1	fontas: 122 aaahhh it's party time
23:11	tiberiusiv	mjr shutup
23:12	tiberiusiv	your idea sucks and you have no $ to build anything
23:12	KRS-1	lol@tiberiusuv
23:12	dub	haha
23:12	dub	good old tiberiusiv
23:12	KRS-1	the one man trollbox
23:13	asciilifeform	fork! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196138.0
23:14	dub	;;next
23:14	gribble	targets: 127, 130-140, 160, 190 | support: 116.5 | resistance: 120 | very bullish on Chinese interest in Bitcoin | #bitcoin [Mon, 06 May 2013 02:54:46 +0000] | tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/139er6E | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | https://twitter.com/BitcoinOracle | 20 minutes and 7 seconds ago
23:15	dub	not sure if china news is good or bad
23:15	tiberiusiv	news is irrelevant as ive proven in here time and time again
23:16	tiberiusiv	i said on record on thursday when the price was high 80's that mtgox lawsuit meant jackshit
23:16	tiberiusiv	and everyone said the price would crash on the weekend
23:16	tiberiusiv	im waiting to rub it into bugpowders face
23:18	dub	it kinda did
23:20	kakobrekla	mjr___
23:20	kakobrekla	just find a solution to quickly find the other party in the grup of 30-50 ppl
23:20	kakobrekla	or whatever
23:21	kakobrekla	off i go now srs.
23:21	dub	I'll be the one wearing a propeller hat
23:22	dub	also inb4 some fucking loser shows up in a guy fawkes mask
23:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3714 @ 0.00071081 = 2.6399 BTC [+]
23:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00071162 = 2.9888 BTC [+]
23:30	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167 @ 0.00071587 = 0.1196 BTC [+]
23:41	mjr___	lol skateboard up in this motherfucker
23:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 6 @ 0.2660005 = 1.596 BTC [-]
23:42	mjr___	truff1es: well, i am satisfied in the idea...a system to help people seeking to exchange btc for fiat physically. The blog post may not be clear, may have grammar or spelling errors, etc. But, the IRL exchange already exists, so I can't really deal with questions about it existing
23:42	Chaaang-Noi	<asciilifeform> fork! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196138.0 and this is why ltc
23:42	asciilifeform	Chaaang-Noi: one might even suspect that the idiot patch is a ploy to keep LTC alive.
23:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.2660005 = 0.532 BTC [-]
23:43	Chaaang-Noi	keep it alaive? its better than ever :)
23:43	asciilifeform	were it not for this nonsense, LTC might well die a well-deserved death in the near future.
23:43	asciilifeform	the only real advantage of LTC (ASIC-resistance) is an illusion.
23:44	asciilifeform	it just needs a different ASIC (one that includes an SDRAM controller.)
23:44	Chaaang-Noi	i hold a lot of ltc so my fingers are in my ears
23:44	asciilifeform	fair enough
23:45	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.466 BTC [+]
23:45	asciilifeform	I am personally working on an FPGA setup for LTC
23:45	Chaaang-Noi	but its going to be nice to have ltc when this forks (and thus fucks) btc
23:45	asciilifeform	and I can't promise that I will tell anyone when it comes online
23:45	asciilifeform	make of that what you will.
23:45	Chaaang-Noi	yeah i know you are trying to 51% attack it
23:45	Chaaang-Noi	but i dont think you will
23:45	asciilifeform	nah, that's another guy
23:46	asciilifeform	FPGA is cheap you know
23:46	Chaaang-Noi	well, im willing to buy
23:46	Chaaang-Noi	love to have one
23:46	asciilifeform	ebay
23:46	asciilifeform	that's where I get them, at any rate
23:46	Chaaang-Noi	lots and lots of people are working on it and have for over a year, but no one seems to be close
23:46	Chaaang-Noi	i mean id buy a finished product
23:46	asciilifeform	no one cares to announce that they have it, and share the code (why?)
23:47	asciilifeform	that is not the same as no one coming close.
23:47	Chaaang-Noi	if they can mass produce themthey will makemore money
23:47	asciilifeform	I, for one, don't care to try mass producing anything in my living room.
23:51	tiberiusiv	did you get what i wrote chaang noi
23:51	tiberiusiv	litecoin will fork wiht increased transactions it isnt scalable
23:53	Chaaang-Noi	tiberslav!
23:54	Chaaang-Noi	tiberslav did you not know btc is our test chain?
23:54	Chaaang-Noi	we broke 120 btc, and the 2 million dollar wall is gone
23:57	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00071587 = 9.02 BTC [+]

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