Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-12-19 | 2016-12-21 → ↓
00:05 mircea_popescu !!up ser
00:05 deedbot ser voiced for 30 minutes.
00:06 ser This is cool https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/12/19/security-alert-12192016-ethereum-org-forums-database-compromised/
00:06 mircea_popescu twas on qntra earlier
00:06 ser Sorry o missed it :)
00:07 ser Ether's a real definition of crap
00:08 mircea_popescu apparently.
00:08 ser But he made a fortune
00:08 ser Sarlatan of bits
00:14 mircea_popescu i'd be surprised if he made much more than living expenses.
00:15 ser I'm sure he's some ether
00:15 ser http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/mobile-phones-cars-block-ban-moving-vehicles-government-technology-a7483871.html
00:18 ser Life style category :) :)
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
01:27 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> twas on qntra earlier << Nah, shinohai dropped link and loled but no submission was found yet
01:28 BingoBoingo And so a log laugh
01:29 BingoBoingo !!up ser
01:29 deedbot ser voiced for 30 minutes.
01:41 ben_vulpes https://freenode.net/news/PSA-brief-update-infra << 'sekuridee measures have been instigated!' oh good thanks exactly what i want, a riot in the dc
01:42 ben_vulpes also holy shit what lolz the meatwot doth provide: http://stemtosteam.org/
01:43 ben_vulpes "we just can't handle the notion of a space where some people's suckitude is actually a barrier to their self-identification as 'a part of a thing'"
01:45 ben_vulpes not that STEM even is salvageable from the imperial ruins, riddled with nsa stoolies like koch, overfitters like mann and the entirety of 'social sciences'
01:45 ben_vulpes in which vein: http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/vaop/naam/pdf/pr2016261a.pdf
01:46 ben_vulpes crime 1: n = 43 (i am /so/ impressed)
01:46 ben_vulpes crime 2: isn't this actually evidence that poor hispanics drug their kids more than anything else?
01:47 ben_vulpes (potential) crime 3: 'study' appears to entirely omit 'control group'
01:47 ben_vulpes which puts anyone involved with Nature specifically and US 'STEM' in general in line for the noose
01:48 ben_vulpes masquerading as science, good grief.
01:53 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586383 << http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/XDTr8/?raw=true ; note that i use the wrong command `getmempool' (line 8587), and that my rpc command of `getmemorypool' doesn't show up at all in the log, but some thirty seconds after the bogus `getmempool' the blackhole symptoms kick in
01:53 a111 Logged on 2016-12-19 22:55 asciilifeform: post log?
~ 18 minutes ~
02:11 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/20/intolerance-to-modernity/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Intolerance to modernity.
~ 4 hours 31 minutes ~
06:43 trinque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R15NKrGrb3c << made it halfway through contravex before switching to watching these
06:48 trinque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUyLC8Gcjw << when Houston does it, we take out 3 lanes
07:01 trinque incidentally pete_dushenski, my brother was having the same sort of reaction. in his case, it was tetracycline for acne (you know, instead of being unamerican and laying off the fast food) having nuked his gut flora.
07:04 trinque GOTTA CLEAN THE TAINT
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
08:18 mircea_popescu btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ?
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08:27 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes seems trivial to separate stem from social "sciences", women's "studies" etc. plenty of avenues available, too, like "deny all female access" or "no science without scientific method" or so forth.
08:32 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes is that paste on your binary star ?
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08:34 davout if someone is interdasted in buying the balance of 13UUaGK8ZDLxjY7RYu2bKEabqjww2KDyxD by wiring EUR to Bram Molenaar's ICCF lemme know
08:36 mircea_popescu "You like vim? Donate to Bram Molenaar in BTC and help kids in Uganda" da fuck is this then
08:39 jurov davout: i can help. you can't wire eur easily anymore?
08:39 davout mircea_popescu: what about it?
08:40 davout jurov: the less i use my euro stuff the better :D
08:40 jurov davout: on popescuplanet, children are beaten and raped, not being sent money, this is new for you?
08:40 mircea_popescu davout meanwhile intel provided me with https://archive.is/7FtyJ
08:41 mircea_popescu jurov dude may i just not know everything to the level of l0 cache here for a minute!
08:41 davout mircea_popescu: takes ages to load, i'm 33 and what is this
08:42 mircea_popescu some tardstalk thread where you were trying to support the google / ex-vim's guy charity.
08:42 mircea_popescu back in 2013 or such
08:43 davout yeah that's me! i recognize that avatar's smug smile
08:43 jurov davout: pm
08:43 mircea_popescu i thought it was some gypsy who lost a finger through the unlikely avenue of filling a caravan full of papier-mache flowers and then using gasoline for lube when fucking his 16yo wife.
08:43 davout the goal was "let's have the dude put a BTC address on vim's splash screen directly", which obviously went nowhere
08:44 davout mircea_popescu: could match me too
08:44 davout except for the fingers i guess
08:45 mircea_popescu myeah. if you absolutely want comment i'd point out that wtf "charity", the guy on the ground in uganda isn't even in the wot ; and wtf arrogant google developers shouldn't be entertained, but really there's no problem with trying and whatever.
08:45 mircea_popescu it's funny how the actually useful stuff, such as "put the fucking bitcoin address on google's homepage already, you dork!" somehow "accidentally" never fucking happens.
08:46 davout yeah
08:46 davout precisely why i wouldn't do it again
08:47 mircea_popescu i'm rather independently VERY soured on "donation" to the idiot parade.
08:47 mircea_popescu other than the openbsd turpitude you may recall the blender idiocy etc.
08:48 davout i remember the openbsd thing but not the blender one
08:48 mircea_popescu i suppose it isn't to be a surprise that in a world where the doctor expects you to pay him for him to do what ~he~ feels ; and the lawyer is strictly shocked that his position as counsel is STRICTLY to do all the legwork you don't feel like doing and absolutely not to do any of the cool management stuff, cuz you're paying and you're gonna be eating that - the charity dudes similarly expect nsa oodlebunches of moneyz
08:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174506 << whole discussion.
08:50 a111 Logged on 2015-06-24 21:05 mircea_popescu: punkman because a) when i first asked, their idea was "buy a mug" ; b) the link i finally fished out did not include any reference either i or fluffypony found (see it in logs) - they have A DIFFERENT unlinked page for this purpose
08:50 davout ty
08:51 mircea_popescu tl;dr : me uses blender for eulora, originally wanted to work with the blender people, and as a "first gesture" sorta thing tried to make a donation. blender people turned out even more batshit insane than anyone could have imagined, which resulted in smg deciding to fork blender and not support their idiotic foundation
08:51 mircea_popescu this a few months before they decided to only support python 3, showing the soundness of that strategic decision.
08:52 mircea_popescu this exactly mirrors me using planeshift code for eulora, did token gesture towards planeshift people, they be EXACTLY as idiotic as blender people in exactly the same way, so as a result /me is having the code refactored and will not work with them
08:53 mircea_popescu and in general this exactly mirrors everything - we tried to work with gpg turns out gpg doesn't want to work, not WITH anyone, it actually does not want to work, at all. ditto for the ssh. ditto for everyone and everything.
08:53 mircea_popescu so technically jurov is right : i'll burn down this uganda and make a new one, fuck 'em. this pretense of independent existence everyone keeps trying to put up is sickening to me.
08:54 mircea_popescu oh yes - chased the freenode idiots for year + back in 2012/2013 trying to give them servers. they - EXACTLY LIKE THESE OTHER IDIOTS - to the fucking t, never got the servers. then a few months later were "suspiociously hacked" and "will publish report" then neverp ublished any report and then went full nsa, which is where we're now.
08:55 mircea_popescu in short, it's not that the stupid whore gets fucked by this bad smelly bully all the time. it's that they're married, and she regularly chooses him. and they'll have to burn together, there's no rescuing to be done in this film.
08:56 davout that's pretty clear.
08:57 mircea_popescu that said, /me wishes teh very best to the actual ugandan children. oppressed as they find themselves under hermetically sealing, thick and numerous layers of dedicatedly-imbecile adults, it'd be a wonder if anything comes of them. but - all the better for all those who do make it in such conditions.
~ 17 minutes ~
09:15 mircea_popescu and in perhaps unrelated lulz : last year, the romanian supreme court struck down the "because the company filed a criminal complaing against the employee" cause for terminating employment. yeah, you read that right. the reason given was that due to social importance blabla, employment ~must be protected from arbitrary decisions~.
09:15 mircea_popescu which is the whole fucking thing : these people do not want to exist.
~ 2 hours 12 minutes ~
11:28 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ? << yah, im trying to dig this up now actually.
11:28 mod6 meanwhile, i stumbled across this SoBA that references the tabling of the checkpoints patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000041.html
11:29 mircea_popescu aha
11:32 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/ << Trilema - What lasts forever ?
11:39 mod6 i think i found it.
11:39 mod6 !%p trb 33
11:39 tb0t Project: trb, ID: 33, Type: F, Subject: Possible DB Replacement with UNIX Filesystem, Antecedents: , Notes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561093
11:39 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561093 << I believe it starts here
11:39 a111 Logged on 2016-11-01 02:04 mircea_popescu: happy bday mod6
11:41 mircea_popescu that';s it mod6
~ 49 minutes ~
12:30 mircea_popescu https://web.archive.org/web/19980610100009/www.redherring.com/mag/issue55/economics.html << in other lulz, krugman calling out marc andreessen & friends for being frauds and failures.
12:33 asciilifeform 'The raw power of computers has advanced at a stunning speed, but has this advance translated into a comparable improvement in their usefulness? Word processing, to take the most obvious example, hasn't fundamentally improved since the late '80s. And in the view of many people I know, WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS was actually better for their purposes than any of the bloatware that has followed.'
12:33 mircea_popescu ye know ?
12:33 asciilifeform aha.
12:33 mircea_popescu apparently this is obvious even to the pope of usgistan
12:33 asciilifeform popes are, on some level, people also, theoretically.
12:33 mircea_popescu or in other words, the stupid gun is directional.
12:33 asciilifeform catch'em off the clock -- they'll talk.
12:33 asciilifeform aha.
12:38 mod6 funny
12:39 mircea_popescu incidentally - nothing is said about how marc andreesseen had to be rescue-married into old wealth to maintain the pretense of relevancy cca 2006 ; nor how zuckerberg's ~only noteworthy initiative (free basics, trying to turn the third world web into a sort of apple store) utterly failed, rejected EVEN BY INDIA
12:40 mircea_popescu or in general, by the piles and piles and piles of failures of this utterly failed generation.
12:43 mircea_popescu anyway, selected butthurt from a flury of whining from back in 2014 when icahn told the fatso a few things : https://archive.is/jLZ1Z
12:48 asciilifeform failed generation, or ran out of corpse to eat..?
12:48 mircea_popescu it ~never had a corpse to eat, it sucked its own dick for as long as that lasted.
12:49 mircea_popescu that's what makes it a failed generation, after all.
12:51 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski the latest bit is easily your best piece yet. people generaly hated because yes, throughout the lenghty process you sounded ~like every other jew boy reading the torah for bar mitzvah, ie, ridiculous. but insistence pays off, and now i dun have to groan when reading your stuff, which is a welcome change indeed.
12:57 BingoBoingo Aha, pete_dushenski you now write like a genitle!
13:04 pete_dushenski aww shucks
13:06 * mircea_popescu also stumbled on recent comment section reading it, apparently there's a whole debate etc.
13:10 pete_dushenski if you mean the latest mpex debate as referenced in 'what lasts forever', ya the leclerc (pankkake?) feller and i had a little back-n-forth
13:10 mircea_popescu ya
13:11 mircea_popescu eh get out of there, it's prolly marc andreesseen being all typically-fatso.
13:11 * asciilifeform pictures him resembling baron harkonen in david lynch's film of 'dune'
13:12 pete_dushenski heh sure why not. but i love when old blog posts still stir the pot. it's even more satisfying than when the hot-off-the-presses sheets light some pubes on fire.
13:12 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski top 3 on trilema this month consists of something from 2012 and something from 2010 + the internet census. so... yeah.
13:13 mircea_popescu “unpracticed in liberty, unschooled in self control, never sobered by the discipline of self support, never established in any habit of prudence… insolent and aggressive, sick of work, [and] covetous of pleasure.” << heh.
13:13 pete_dushenski trinque: that houston truck looks like it was headed either to or from a gulf refinery. pretty sweet assplosion. and ya, gotta ditch the ff!
13:13 mircea_popescu applies to the nigger of today precisely, at that.
13:14 pete_dushenski woodrow wilson : a man ahead of his time.
13:15 pete_dushenski accordingly, exactly like shakespeare, there are 'movements' to remove wilson from names of ivy league buildings.
13:15 pete_dushenski iirc a mural of him was covered up but name of building stayed.
13:15 mircea_popescu heh
13:15 mircea_popescu what use have pigs for cigars.
13:16 pete_dushenski nostril plugs i imagine
13:16 pete_dushenski like clarkson's tampons (a reference only ben_vulpes make catch)
13:16 pete_dushenski may*
13:21 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: internet census is right up there eh ? the irony of that one little study making such a dent in a world awash in 'data' and 'research' where n=43 is otherwise sufficient grounds for public policy decisions... never fails to amus.
13:21 pete_dushenski e
13:21 mircea_popescu ~everyone said the same thing "holy shit this is detailed".
13:22 mircea_popescu it's not even detailed ; but at least it's not idiocy on the level of nature mag science mag etc.
13:24 pete_dushenski compare and contrast the time inputs too : 4 years x 4 researchers = 12 page report (vs) .0003 years x 2 researchers = 12 page report.
13:25 pete_dushenski that's self-directed republican efficiency for you
13:26 pete_dushenski !~calc (0.0003*2)/(4*4)*100
13:26 jhvh1 pete_dushenski: (0.0003*2)/(4*4)*100 = 0.00375
13:27 pete_dushenski 0.004% of the time input for the same ~quantity~ of output, nevermind the clearly superior quality, usefulness, applicability to the real world.
13:33 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586533 << 'coracle', my battlefield node
13:33 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 13:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is that paste on your binary star ?
~ 19 minutes ~
13:53 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski speaking of which - i didn't use "spreadsheets" like the fucking usg tards ( http://trilema.com/2012/law-enforcement-never-fails-to-unintentionally-entertain/ ) or for that matter wordperfect 5.1 ; nor did i have any use for a pdf maker. the whole article came out of an awk and a sort
13:54 mircea_popescu at which juncture it should probably be reminded to the general public that the pmarca schmuck is ... known, let's say, for one of the first ~web browsers~. ie, the shit soup to end all shit soups, exactly like "spreadsheets" and whatnot except to the power of nine thousand.
13:55 mircea_popescu there isn't any space, or any need, or anything else for these fucktards today anymore than there was in 1996 or in 1976. they know it today like they knew it then, and they're lying about it (to themselves, mostly) then as now because they know that's exactly all they can do. who's gonna hire pmarca ? to do what ? who has a job for zuck ?
13:55 mircea_popescu etc.
13:56 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes so listen, the important thing here is, have you managed to reproduce the "blackhole" in an isolated system ?
14:03 ben_vulpes nope
14:04 ben_vulpes is there intuition about whether blackholes are attacks or retarded clients?
14:04 mircea_popescu we have no definitive answer on this.
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14:05 ben_vulpes didnt think so
14:05 mircea_popescu but in general there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy. for the attack to exist, the client has to be "retarded".
14:05 ben_vulpes i doubt itll show up on solipnet
14:05 ben_vulpes sure, trb shoulda been aborted
14:05 mircea_popescu wait wut
14:06 ben_vulpes but i mean blackholing as artifact of some other poorly written client, instead of script opening sockets to trb nodes
14:07 mircea_popescu yeah. we r not know.
14:08 ben_vulpes mhm
14:10 mircea_popescu anyway, i've been rereading period warnings about myself, it's been rather pleasant.
14:13 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586638 << i was able to reproduce a very similar effect. simply throw blocks at a node that don't fail verification until the very end.
14:13 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 19:04 mircea_popescu: we have no definitive answer on this.
14:14 asciilifeform (it is idiotically serial and the entire thing locks, won't respond to rpc commands, etc)
14:14 mircea_popescu yes but this doesn't answer if the idiocy is naturally ocurring so much
14:15 asciilifeform it does not.
14:15 asciilifeform wireshark, and a good deal of patience, would answer it.
14:15 mircea_popescu anyway. like you said, seems pretty credible parallelizing will fix this./
14:16 asciilifeform the only boojum is that parallelizing would require removing the locks.
14:16 asciilifeform which potentially changes the semantics of EVERYTHING
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14:16 mircea_popescu yes.
14:16 asciilifeform i.e. is the very worst kind of mutilation of 'grandfather's pistol' conceivable.
14:16 mircea_popescu nevertheless, bitcoin 2.0 has no room for this serial nonsense.
14:16 mircea_popescu it's just bad design.
14:17 asciilifeform it is atrocious design, as is the whole thing.
14:17 asciilifeform and very much glued on with broken glass.
14:17 mircea_popescu to think the dork actually claimed he is "slightly more productive on linux than windows". satoshi never fucking as much as saw a posix compliant box.
14:22 ben_vulpes might be interesting to patch trb to dump relevant connection's self-identification string
14:22 ben_vulpes when in blackhole mode
14:22 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it'd have to be continuously dumped
14:23 asciilifeform recall, whole thing deadlocks, won't accept any interactive command at all.
14:23 mod6 what is meant by 'blackhole mode' ?
14:24 asciilifeform !#s blackhole
14:24 a111 53 results for "blackhole", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blackhole
14:24 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i mean when the node is running through 'accepted connection' 'socket no message in first 60 seconds'
14:24 asciilifeform mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-19#1327566
14:24 a111 Logged on 2015-11-19 20:29 asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0
14:24 mod6 im not sure that is helpful... are you discussing how the client just seems to have no peers after some period of time?
14:25 mod6 ah, ok.
14:25 ben_vulpes i don't expect to be able to make an rpc call while the node is looping through its list of peers and get 'the right' peer shat out
14:25 asciilifeform mod6: trb isn't multithreaded in the, e.g., apache, sense. it services clients round-robin style, and if it gets stuck at any point, this is what you get
14:25 ben_vulpes mod6: no, the thing where either a shitty network client or some joker opens sockets and lets them expire, eating 60 seconds of the loop through each peer to service
14:26 ben_vulpes during which the node is ~entirely unresponsive
14:26 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: not what happens. those get banned quite normally.
14:26 mod6 ben_vulpes: aha, gotcha.
14:26 asciilifeform what happens is that it makes ~your~ node sit retardedly instead of talking into socket at appropriate time.
14:26 mod6 oh that's not it then asciilifeform? this is helpful, please continue to describe.
14:26 ben_vulpes what 'makes'
14:26 ben_vulpes and how
14:27 mircea_popescu ^
14:27 asciilifeform something that comes down the wire. precisely what, i do not yet know.
14:27 mircea_popescu it's not "a joker doses sockets".
14:27 asciilifeform aha.
14:27 ben_vulpes okok
14:27 asciilifeform the necessary experiment is i think quite obvious and i do not need to describe it in detail.
14:27 asciilifeform but will anyway, just in case.
14:27 asciilifeform first you need a blackhole detector.
14:28 mircea_popescu just keeping track of the binary star is already a huge thing.
14:28 asciilifeform this will consist of a shell script that makes, e.g., getinfo api request, AND
14:28 asciilifeform if it times out !
14:28 asciilifeform then we know. blackholed.
14:28 asciilifeform at the same time, tcpdump is running
14:28 ben_vulpes (or -- processing block)
14:28 asciilifeform so we get a snapshot of the, say, 20 minutes of tcpdump prior to node entering blackhole state.
14:28 ben_vulpes (impossible to differentiate!)
14:28 asciilifeform after a few days of this, we have the culprit.
14:29 mircea_popescu imo this is a total waste of time ; we won't have the culprit even if we drink the gigabyte swamp. which we needn't be drinking in any case.
14:29 asciilifeform whether it is waste of time, is separate question.
14:29 asciilifeform but we would have the culprit, yes.
14:29 asciilifeform and it'd be a few megabyte of swamp
14:29 mircea_popescu myeah. i have no problem with the baruch spinoza approach, esp when eg, dealing with viri etc. but it's not a universal wrench.
14:29 asciilifeform if done as described above.
14:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the suspicion is you'll be seeing too much variance to be able to say much definitively
14:30 mircea_popescu this butressed on the observation that satoshi code is large and stupidly wrought.
14:31 asciilifeform or conceivably the described bear trap will actually contain a bear at the end of the day.
14:31 asciilifeform cannot be ruled out.
14:31 mircea_popescu indeed.
14:34 mircea_popescu continuing the floundering sv-tech lulz for a moment, there's https://archive.is/Wdiyj
14:34 mircea_popescu practically speaking, the exact equivalent of "putin did wtc"
14:34 * asciilifeform looks at his nodes, and discovers that, sure enough, both are blackholed at this very moment.
14:36 asciilifeform 'To Read the Full Story, Subscribe or Sign In' << lel
14:36 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: archive.is is paywalled
14:37 mircea_popescu not really missing much.
14:37 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/SlwGQ/?raw=true << this is fresh from zoolag. and very typical.
14:37 mircea_popescu whole story is, "fatso is angry at not being as relevant as he thinks he should be"
14:37 asciilifeform we get a block (dulap already saw same block; it was valid.) which simply takes ages to verify.
14:37 asciilifeform while it verifies, the thing sits around being very sad, and ends up losing most of its peers
14:38 asciilifeform (they -- elementarily -- time out)
14:39 mircea_popescu aha.
14:39 asciilifeform what's more, this is a rinse-and-repeat
14:39 asciilifeform when it gets NEXT block, which happens more or less immediately after,
14:39 asciilifeform when it finally gets a peer going again,
14:39 asciilifeform same process repeats.
14:39 mircea_popescu the miners are pushing block complexity to the maximum possible because hey, more fees ; the cost this imposes on the nodes is not to be discussed because hey, fatso thinks he should matter and stuff.
14:39 asciilifeform aha.
14:40 mircea_popescu at the very least block digestion and peering must be cleaved in trb
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14:40 asciilifeform plox to elaborate
14:41 mircea_popescu the process that talks to peers has ~no business~ knowing anything about the blocks ; the process which maintains the blockchain, verifies blocks etc has ~no business~ talking to peers.
14:41 mircea_popescu mixing these into a single frail monolith is very much satoshism, but we're not supposed to stick to stupid.
14:42 asciilifeform this doesn't add up to a working btctron. in order to evaluate a peer, it is necessary to be able to distinguish block from rubbish.
14:42 asciilifeform and to do this, you need the entire spittoon.
14:42 asciilifeform ditto tx
14:42 mircea_popescu nope. blockchain part will get to it when it gets to it, and tell you. until then, peer part builds queues.
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14:42 asciilifeform you need the entire orchestra to decide whether to accept a tx for relay.
14:43 mircea_popescu the fact that you need the blockchain part to tell you what tx are to be relayed does not reduce to, you must make it to listen to all comers.
14:43 mircea_popescu business has a secretary and an actual worker ; fast food has a front office and a back office. there's reasons for things wtf.
14:43 mircea_popescu bitcoin has a single office, like a fucking bidonville residence.
14:43 mod6 !%a trb I "Investigate blackhole" "Investigate what might be occuring with the so-called black-hole, described here: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586635"
14:44 asciilifeform queueing is sane but i will point out that from the other side, a node that doesn't answer immediately because it queued, is not distinguishable from one that doesn't answer because it is spinning wheels on block verification.
14:44 mod6 !%p trb 35
14:44 tb0t Project: trb, ID: 35, Type: I, Subject: Investigate blackhole, Antecedents: , Notes: Investigate what might be occuring with the so-called black-hole, described here: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586635
14:44 asciilifeform and either gets dropped by peer.
14:44 mod6 all set for now.
14:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it answers immediately. let's formalize this.
14:44 asciilifeform how can it possibly answer immediately ?
14:44 mircea_popescu b.peer receives items from peers and puts them in received-txn and received-blocks ; both of which are queues.
14:45 mircea_popescu b.blockchain picks up items from received-blocks and verifies them, adding to blockchain if necessary ; picks up items from received-txn, and verifies them, adding to mempool-txn if necessary.
14:45 mircea_popescu if queried, b.peer loads mempool-txn as it is and uses that ; so what if it's stale, fuck you.
14:46 mircea_popescu this way b.peer can always answer something ' and b.blockchain can sanely optimize its queue processing.
14:46 mircea_popescu rather than "do it now!"
14:46 asciilifeform i'll add to this that in trb as we have it, you ONLY need blockchain to verify a potential mempool tx
14:46 asciilifeform and never need other mempool tx.
14:46 mircea_popescu right.
14:47 mircea_popescu anyway. the divorce is required and continuing in the current monolith sheer nonsense.
14:47 asciilifeform but yes, mircea_popescu's algo is The Right Thing
14:47 asciilifeform if unsure, eat tx, can always drop it on the floor later.
14:49 mircea_popescu quite.
14:51 mircea_popescu and you know, sanity suddenly flowers everywhere - do you send too much in bytes/s ? b.peer can can your. do you send too much crap ? b.blockchain can tell b.peer it dun wanna hear from you no mo.
14:51 mircea_popescu etc.
14:52 asciilifeform the one caveat is that this is probably not doable while preserving trb semantics.
14:52 mircea_popescu i suspect it can be done by surgery without the two parts ~even knowing~ they're not satoshi-full-bitcoin.
14:52 mircea_popescu just reallocate the respective pointers mwahahaha.
14:52 asciilifeform well that'd be the definition of 'preserve semantics'
14:53 mircea_popescu right.
14:54 asciilifeform at one time i ran a barbaric experiment where same box would run ~two separate~ instances of trb
14:55 asciilifeform initially idea was that it would be a kind of load balance arrangement, if one were in blackhole state, connections would rout to other. but in the end i did not bother with this, and simply let one hang behind the other, and used the setup simply to observe how 'blackholing' propagates.
14:56 ben_vulpes oh blackholing propagates naturally?
14:57 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: in so far as it consists of the block processing delay, as described earlier, it does.
14:57 asciilifeform unsurprisingly.
14:58 asciilifeform (check your own collection of blackhole logs, how many are preceded by a 'received block 0000000....' )
14:58 * ben_vulpes may look sometime
14:59 ben_vulpes i may also need to adjust my log rotator, 1 gig of bitcoind logs is...not actually that much history.
14:59 asciilifeform on my nodes, just about every 'received block...' is followed by a bunch of telltale 'socket closed' from barfing peers
14:59 asciilifeform aaaah see i don't rotate.
14:59 asciilifeform ~ever.
14:59 asciilifeform and yes i end up with multi-GB logs. but they are quite informative.
15:01 asciilifeform you can grep your log for 'SetBestChain' also, and likely will find the same thing.
15:01 asciilifeform which is, that simply getting a valid block takes your node out of action for 5-15 min !
15:01 ben_vulpes hm
15:02 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: you can replicate same effect using 'eatblock'
15:02 asciilifeform as described on the ml (and linked again last night)
15:02 ben_vulpes all of a sudden i want to collect data on how long trb takes to return from a simple getinfo call, per your above protocol
15:02 asciilifeform you will find that it is never less time than it takes to actually verify the block.
15:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, et al : the pill that would be needed to cure the locks retardation once and for all (and enable, e.g., queueing) while preserving semantics, would be to go through each and every function call in trb and determine if it A) Reads state B) Modifies state C) both D) neither
15:06 asciilifeform if any (C) is found, it must be sliced apart with a knife until there is no (C)
15:06 mircea_popescu just about yes.
15:06 asciilifeform afterwards, anything that contains only (A) can be made lockless
15:06 mircea_popescu but the place to start is the cleavage above.
15:06 mircea_popescu who knows what new wonders we find.
15:07 asciilifeform let's take, concretely, ProcessBlock : http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#1319
15:07 asciilifeform which is where a trb node is actually hanging for 10-50% of a given day.
15:07 asciilifeform depending on how full are blocks.
15:07 asciilifeform it is quite plainly an example of (C)
15:08 asciilifeform i will admit, that i many times sat down to do this.
15:08 asciilifeform and then realized that the resulting patch WILL be 50,000 lines, and the output will look ~nothing like trb, and gave up.
15:09 asciilifeform 'patient is not operable.'
15:10 asciilifeform at a certain point, if you attempt the operation, you start to ask 'why is there satoshi crapolade in my bitcoin2.0' rather than 'ooh neato, a repaired trb!'
↖
15:11 asciilifeform picture a farm d00d upgrading from horse plow to tractor, who goes to tractor factory to demand that parts of his freshly dead horse be incorporated into the machine.
15:22 BingoBoingo Leather seats are a thing!
15:23 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/former-flint-emergency-managers-face-felony-charges/ << Qntra - Former Flint Emergency Managers Face Felony Charges
15:29 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i've ruminated on this as well before
15:29 ben_vulpes kinda think that a bitcoin client is journeyman republican project
15:32 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: do you recall and could you cite a line where you talk about folx using ersatz clients, forking and 'fools'?
15:35 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: not immediately
15:36 ben_vulpes and i don't recall it well enough to find. alas.
15:38 ben_vulpes is anyone aware of a 'muxing' 'dashboard' for staying abreast of several different clients' opinions of network state?
15:38 ben_vulpes oh hey whaddayaknow, getmemorypool eventually returned
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
16:42 asciilifeform HOLY FUCK:
16:42 asciilifeform File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/pdfminer/pdfpage.py", line 123, in get_pages
16:42 asciilifeform raise PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed('Text extraction is not allowed: %r' % fp)
16:42 asciilifeform pdfminer.pdfdocument.PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed: Text extraction is not allowed: <open file ... some derpitude
16:42 asciilifeform this is a thing?!
16:42 asciilifeform and of course, inside, we find:
16:42 asciilifeform # Check if the document allows text extraction. If not, abort.
16:42 asciilifeform if check_extractable and not doc.is_extractable:
16:42 asciilifeform raise PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed('Text extraction is not allowed: %r' % fp)
16:43 asciilifeform author ~wants~ to be boiled in oil..?
↖
16:43 trinque ahaha
16:43 asciilifeform not that this isn't a literally half-second snipsnip.
16:43 asciilifeform but...
16:44 trinque you mayn't remove the fig leaf!1!1!!
16:45 asciilifeform anyway, the relevant lulzbit that spawned this, http://www.pokermira.com/c/ConnectiveGames-RNGEvaluationCertificationLetter1.2.pdf ( http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/QysGU/?raw=true )
16:46 asciilifeform ^ 'official certification' of 'trng' of some poker derps, by some purported 'test lab', scrolled through to see what the submitted hardware was, and it... wasn't. it was a list of java src turds and their file hashes!
16:48 asciilifeform i gotta wonder, what the euthor of 'pdfminer' was smoking.
16:48 asciilifeform *author
16:48 asciilifeform why, why.
16:49 asciilifeform and where else in the wonderful world of open sores is there more of this same.
16:49 trinque seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit.
↖
16:50 asciilifeform for some reason the only thing that came immediately to mind is the 'piss_on_patents' flag, or what was it, that you used to have to set on linux box to get mp3 and truetype going
17:03 phf asciilifeform: is that one of those mandatory gaming authority certifications? or a "you can trust our gaming servers, we got an EVALUATION, got checksums and everything"
17:03 asciilifeform phf: to my -- admittedly untrained -- eye, it looks more like those Guaranteed Seeekooore Website!111 certs that various derps used to display
17:04 asciilifeform the ones with the little padlock.
↖
17:06 phf yeah, that's what it looks like. i wonder if in your explorations of state of rng you came across any offical GCB evaluation of casino rngs, i don't know if those would even be public or have technical detail...
17:06 asciilifeform afaik 0 public.
17:07 asciilifeform likewise 'it gave such-and-such statistic' is not very useful from sane people's pov.
17:07 asciilifeform gotta have the complete design.
17:07 asciilifeform otherwise it can just as easily be a device that puts current unix time + salt through aes
17:08 asciilifeform (will score maximal, perfect score, on any statistical test you could possibly want.)
17:08 asciilifeform and anyone who knows the salt - owns you.
17:08 asciilifeform this is elementary but bears repeating occasionally .
17:10 asciilifeform i will also add that tests, for what they're worth, are worth 0 if they are not of YOUR PARTICULAR device which YOU OWN
17:10 asciilifeform this also is apparently not obvious to everyone. but -- true.
17:11 phf i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys
↖
17:11 asciilifeform fwiw (and i may have explained it in the past) FUCKGOATS will work with, e.g., a geiger, or anything else that can supply 1/0 signal
17:11 asciilifeform including a morse button
17:15 asciilifeform given as it is not physically possible to audit an analogue rng in the same sense as one can audit the digital board (i.e. by putting a TB of random through it, and comparing what comes out other end to the expected), i expect that plenty of folks will choose to build their own analogue unit.
17:17 phf that's fair, i think we had a thread, when you first started working on this, with various schemes. "use the optics on your iphone" etc.
17:17 asciilifeform there are 10,000,001 possible schemes, it is not some titanic open problem.
17:18 asciilifeform the difficulty is in making something that can be distinguished, in a spot check, from aes(unixtime+salt), by skeptic.
17:19 asciilifeform also it is strange to suppose that a casino player could take a legitimate interest in the rng of the game machine. it is intrinsically promisetronic, he is stuck taking the house's word for it.
17:20 asciilifeform (in the case of 'provably fair', he can be shown the seed for the prng, but there is NO way for the casino to demonstrate that NO ONE ELSE KNEW it. hence -- just as promisetronic, and now on top of it all braindamage of using prng)
17:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586803 << you are attempting the wrong operation, which is the problem. cut where i toldja not where you feelta.
17:20 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 20:10 asciilifeform: at a certain point, if you attempt the operation, you start to ask 'why is there satoshi crapolade in my bitcoin2.0' rather than 'ooh neato, a repaired trb!'
17:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this was in re: your described cut.
17:21 mircea_popescu no, it wasn't, as i don't actually propose any changes to processblock. it can go wholesale in b.blockchain
17:21 asciilifeform looks almost as if it'd be a skin , front end running tcpwise in front of trb node
17:21 mircea_popescu almost, yes.
17:22 asciilifeform 'trb condom'
17:22 mircea_popescu patient is indeed not operable in the sense you mean ; but medicine is chiefly a pile of paleatives, not "radical bioreengineering technology"
17:22 mircea_popescu guess what - if you take your allergies to the doctor he will also not cut into every cell and fix your bad dna
17:23 mircea_popescu (yes, all allergies mean one thing - that you're a degenerate fenotype not fit for life. what can you do ? certainly can't go back in time and whack ytour mother to fuck better drunks.)
17:24 asciilifeform 'allergen' is broad concept.
17:25 mircea_popescu which is my point here.
17:26 asciilifeform (take, for instance, urushiol. not per se allergenic! but denatures certain protein in skin such that you are your own allergen.)
17:26 mircea_popescu anyway - IF there's ever going to be that "radical bioengineering technology" medicine, it starts exactly in these places. gotta first do the 13yo torah reading work. then can be man.
17:26 mircea_popescu make pistols.
17:26 asciilifeform whole subj, recall began with asciilifeform's request for a literal 'talmud' to take to bed..
17:26 mircea_popescu indeed :)
17:27 asciilifeform btw this is something i've already been doing for ages, bedtime lxr
17:27 asciilifeform (jurov's viewer is ~still~ the state of the art)
17:27 mircea_popescu last i fell alseep on alain delon. holy shit is that period weird.
17:27 mircea_popescu back then, the french were still pretending to be a thing. much in the manner of today's us.
17:28 phf ален делон не пьет одеколон. ален делон пьет двойной бурбон. ален делон говорит по-французски
17:28 asciilifeform lel
17:29 mircea_popescu he did enjoy a period of chuck norris ism in ru did he
17:30 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> (take, for instance, urushiol. not per se allergenic! but denatures certain protein in skin such that you are your own allergen.) << But where else could Varnish come from!
17:30 phf well french cinema not being entirely corrupted by imperialism was popular in su, so alen delon got the same treatment as other "anekdot" characters.
17:30 phf /popular/allowed/
17:32 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/three-times-as-many-electors-rejected-clinton-than-trump-colin-powell-finally-draws-votes/ << Qntra - Three Times As Many Electors Rejected Clinton Than Trump, Colin Powell Finally Draws Votes
17:35 phf fwiw his purple noon is great, i think it even got the trilema treatment?
17:36 mircea_popescu (as a public service : /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ nʲˈe pʲjˈɵt ɐdʲɪkɐlˈon/ /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ pʲjˈɵt dvɐjnˈoj bɜrbon/ /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ ɡəvɐrʲˈit pəfrɐnt͡sˈuskʲɪ/ )
17:38 mircea_popescu phf possibly not. but yes, not ~entirely~ bad, and as an actor certainly better than whatever dorks available today, so he'd still win a "what do we watch" competition. the period though... ah, ah.
17:39 mircea_popescu fwiw de funes shows the same tragic character, except he's more of an engineer at heart, a great administrator, a sort of fouquet rather than you know, piaf's legionnaire.
17:39 mircea_popescu la zizanie certainly got the trilema treatment.
17:44 mircea_popescu aaand i just looted ~half a btc worth of dagsden flags in eulora. mwahaha.
17:44 mod6 nice
17:46 phf i always thought of him as a pretty boy who can hold a certain pose. that's why i think purple noon is great, where he fits perfectly because he looks young, fresh, aloof and arrogant. but his other stuff is forgettable. i think he had some tv show where he played a middle aged detective, where he was great again, by virtue of being the right age
17:48 mircea_popescu yeah, he's not a very good actor, but a fine icon. in the vein of brooms that shoot once, a picture of a car can count for a car from the right angle once ; and a stopped clock still shows accurate time on occasion.
17:49 mircea_popescu !!up chatter
17:49 deedbot chatter voiced for 30 minutes.
17:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586823 << their loyalties be misplaced, what.
17:58 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 21:43 asciilifeform: author ~wants~ to be boiled in oil..?
17:58 mircea_popescu but yes, imperial idiots actually do "rng verification" of software ~running on unspecified machines~.
17:59 mircea_popescu the insanity of this boggles the mind, if the mind can be bothered to stop and think for a minute.
17:59 phf mircea_popescu: while you're in that french mode you should watch (or rewatch?) fantômas. there's the three 1960s ones, with de funes. i have no idea if they are any good, because i haven't seen them for a very long time, but i suspect that they are sort of comedic 60s take on james bond.
17:59 asciilifeform of software!
17:59 mircea_popescu phf i tried recently and couldn't stand it. the cheapo roadshow really irks me. it's almost like watching that dude "commenting", what's his face
18:00 mircea_popescu john oliver
18:00 phf ahaha
18:00 mircea_popescu i just don't go for the whole carny show with the facepaint and the star wars papier mache models.
18:01 phf well, sucks. i have fond memories of it, so i'm not even going to try. like i watched a tv show that was popular in ru in mid90s, "quantum leap". i could barely sit through a handful of eposides and only because i was trying to see if it'll get any good..
18:01 mircea_popescu (this, i come to realise, is a major block for my watching ~any video sf. back when the people involved weren't idiots, the machines weren't yet capable.)
18:02 mircea_popescu phf but if you're up for some utter wtf, can always try "this must be the place". i have no idea what i saw.
18:05 phf hehe, this looks horrible
18:06 * ben_vulpes mutters westworld again
18:06 ben_vulpes lotsa rape and titties
18:09 trinque almost plays as a "lets sneak a peak at slavery, but safely"
18:09 * trinque enjoys
18:11 trinque there's a "merits of suffering" notion somewhere in there, too
18:11 ben_vulpes mhm
18:19 mircea_popescu aite, ima push to list eh.
18:19 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church-truck-attacker-still-at-large/ << Qntra - Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church Truck Attacker Still At Large
18:23 asciilifeform http://qntra.net/2016/12/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church-truck-attacker-still-at-large/#comment-81969
18:23 * ben_vulpes waits for "omfg whats wrong with you americans, none of those tits were even on girls"
18:26 mircea_popescu wait wat !?
18:26 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/12/kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church-truck-attacker-still-at-large/#comment-81970
18:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586838 << you mean the "blogosphere" prizes from like 1999 ?
18:27 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 22:04 asciilifeform: the ones with the little padlock.
18:27 asciilifeform same idea.
18:28 asciilifeform but there were (and, not too long ago, i saw -- still are!) 'security'-flavoured talismans.
18:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586849 << the thing with fuckgoats is that, much like in the case of, say, dildo - more expensive variation doens't usefully exist.
18:28 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 22:11 phf: i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys
18:29 mircea_popescu it may exist, of course, but it dindu nuttin.
18:29 asciilifeform i can picture variations that increase cost (e.g., higher bitrate, and internal battery) but the basic idea cannot be improved, no.
18:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586834 << quite exactly what that is, huh.
18:30 a111 Logged on 2016-12-20 21:49 trinque: seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit.
18:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform or better shielding, or making it go into a reactor core, or etc.
18:32 asciilifeform it is possible to make a platinum-iridium fork. and possibly it will stain less after dishwasher! but is not fundamental improvement on concept of 'fork'
18:33 mircea_popescu right.
18:39 pete_dushenski "The value of Canada’s natural resource assets stood at $287 billion in 2015, down 73% from 2014, largely due to lower energy prices. […] Timber resources accounted for 55% of the value of all natural resource assets in 2015, followed by minerals (26%) and energy resources (19%)." << in other news, trump's looming war on softwood lumber is going to fucking hurt. and no, it won't be balanced out by
18:39 pete_dushenski keystone, at least not at the national level. but then again, whotf cares about the national level ?
18:43 pete_dushenski o hey 800 on the stamp
18:54 mircea_popescu !~calc 71.71 * 800 / 287 / 10**9
18:54 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 71.71 * 800 / 287 / 10**9 = 1.9988850174216028E-7
18:54 mircea_popescu tananana. not just 1 millionth, but two!
18:54 mircea_popescu !~google canada land area
18:54 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Land Area / Countries of the World - World by Map: <http://world.bymap.org/LandArea.html>; Geography of Canada - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Canada>; List of Canadian provinces and territories by area - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_area>
18:54 mircea_popescu helpful beyond belief.
18:55 pete_dushenski 9.985 million km²
18:55 mircea_popescu !~calc 9.85 * 10**6 * 1.9988850174216028E-7
18:55 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 9.85 * 10**6 * 1.9988850174216028E-7 = 1.9689017421602788
18:55 mircea_popescu eulora comes to 2sqkm of canada. LOGIC!
18:55 pete_dushenski lmao
18:56 mircea_popescu shut up it's numbers-based SCIENCE
18:56 mircea_popescu do they have science in your country ? how about tedx ?
18:56 pete_dushenski so eulora is basically the same as the entire canadian prairies.
18:57 pete_dushenski alberta + saskatchewan + manitoba
18:57 mircea_popescu wait wut ?
18:57 mircea_popescu no, just 2 sqkm, like enough for an american base.
18:57 pete_dushenski 2!!!! (/me read 2 MN)
18:57 mircea_popescu hey, gotta leave some room for future growth lest the webcommenters win the webattle.
18:59 pete_dushenski would be good wotbet / bitbet : when will eulora be larger economically than, say, idaho ?
19:00 mircea_popescu world famous nondescript tubers!
19:00 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski i expect once the land/ownership update makes it in, eulora will give a run for their money to a lot of peoples.
19:02 pete_dushenski bbl
19:09 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/the-slut-moth/ << Trilema - The Slut Moth
19:19 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: pls to describe this war on softwood lumber? Does this mean I should build new bookshelves sooner instead of later?
19:20 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
19:20 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 799.35, vol: 4115.82839866 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 784.6, vol: 3918.9061 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 797.33, vol: 7710.19758945 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 809.75408, vol: 1243703.20730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 799.987, vol: 1228.98764791 | Volume-weighted last average: 809.556413514
19:21 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: And further what sort of lumber do yall even grow up there anyways?
~ 21 minutes ~
19:42 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/missouri-state-representative-elect-bruce-franks-robbed-at-gunpoint/ << Qntra - Missouri State Representative Elect Bruce Franks Robbed At Gunpoint
19:44 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: 'relieved'
19:44 BingoBoingo ty fxd
19:44 ben_vulpes also you know who opened the door, what's with the passive voice
19:45 BingoBoingo ty fxd 2
19:45 ben_vulpes right on
19:46 ben_vulpes now for my next riddle, what solstice gift do you get a woman who already has a baby and doesn't want another yet?
19:48 BingoBoingo A pearl necklace!
19:48 trinque !~bash 2
19:48 jhvh1 Last 2 lines bashed and pending publication
~ 3 hours 20 minutes ~
23:09 mircea_popescu lmao
23:10 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes a black and white cookie. you know, because solstice is like equinox.
23:14 BingoBoingo Ah, a Cosby kid!
23:24 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: we grow pine, fir, cedar, and spruce, most of which come from bc. ontario and quebec grow some hardwoods like oak and maple but these aren't as practical or affordable for general construction so they're exported in smaller volumes relatively speaking. so depends what you want your shelves made out of. pine can work but obv the hardwoods are sturdier if also commensurately spendier.
23:24 mircea_popescu cedar ftw.
23:25 pete_dushenski worx too
23:25 mircea_popescu i knew cedar to make great boats ; but cedar also makes great beating sticks!
23:27 pete_dushenski anyways bb, if you missed trump's campaign rhetoric, he often called nafta 'the world deal ever made ever, like ever ever' and much of that is focused on the softwood imports from canada 'undercutting good white american biznizmen and their upstanding famblies' etc.
23:27 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: pretty sure the beating stick my old man used was cedar. metal tipped too!
23:27 pete_dushenski was some cdn army issue thing.
23:27 mircea_popescu eh, maybe if i had boys. bu for girls no metal necessary.
23:28 mircea_popescu anyway, it's not just canadian wood ; all sorts of thing
23:28 pete_dushenski they do whip-flick nicely
23:28 pete_dushenski ...the cedar sticks
23:28 pete_dushenski ya
23:31 pete_dushenski in other canadian softness, looks like 'liam' and 'sophia' were the most popular baby names for newborn boys and girls, respecitvely, in 2016
23:32 * pete_dushenski wonder if it's all azns
23:32 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: I don't think you know how wood is marketed. There SPF or "Spruce, Pine, Fir" for the ones that suck because the bulk of particular kinds of softwoods all suck in the same ways. Then you get outlifers which are also lumped together like Douglas Fir and Larch or the 3-ish species of Southern yellow pine.
23:33 mircea_popescu wtf bs azn names. liam ? pssshhh.
23:33 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> cedar ftw. << belongs outside or as an unfinished accent. Bookshelves need to hole WEIGHT!
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23:33 BingoBoingo *hold
23:34 * pete_dushenski has bookshelves made of indiand rosewood that he's quite fond of
23:35 mircea_popescu dude cedar has a bending strength of like 9. better than chestnut.
23:35 pete_dushenski the 'd' in indiand is for 'original', like in bitcoind.
23:35 mircea_popescu get the nice aromatic red, it'll beat about half the hardwoords you can run across.
23:37 * BingoBoingo leaning towards southern yellow pine
23:37 BingoBoingo with cedar backing
23:37 mircea_popescu speaking of which, they have this crazy shit here - picconia excelsa. the wood hardens SO MUCH as it dries you can't fucking work it
23:41 BingoBoingo Trees are weird
23:41 mircea_popescu more like a shrub imo
23:43 BingoBoingo Ah, a short self copicing tree!
23:44 pete_dushenski speaking of shortness and weirdness, happy longest night of the year! edm had just 7:28 of daylight today, so 16:32 of darkness. top that, equitarianists.
23:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1586996 << how come ~nobody in usa has civilized bookshelves. the kind with the glass doors.
23:47 a111 Logged on 2016-12-21 04:33 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cedar ftw. << belongs outside or as an unfinished accent. Bookshelves need to hole WEIGHT!
23:47 asciilifeform not even sold anywhere afaik.
23:47 mircea_popescu i saw such. not everyone's fond of the dust.
23:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu saw many things, probably also saw home reactor and well-maintained mig.
23:48 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: King Geoge controls glass imports!
23:48 mircea_popescu hey, there is such a thing as old money, even in the usa.
23:50 * asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu admiring bush's glass bookcase doors, with trained eye
23:50 mircea_popescu hey, my own library housed thousands of volumes in the standard romanian bookshelf, which yes had glass
23:50 mircea_popescu (pretty clever design - you could hook the glass pane out by lifting it.)
23:51 asciilifeform well yes. civilized folk have glass. and i've never seen it since moving to monkeystan.
23:55 * BingoBoingo thought outside on Monkeystan everyone just had a room they surrendered to compact shelving.
23:57 pete_dushenski https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FgblF0NsG1A/WFmUcmNln1I/AAAAAAAAoGI/IsVf__4qaJ0p3vwc_ySI9mlq0qLm-NkcACLcB/s1600/Fz11DuI%2B-%2BImgur.gif << speaking of civilisation, this is how pm's lexus ls460 (same as mine, natch) merges onto freeway protected by small motorcade. note the utter fluidity of the white-gloved hand gestures.
23:57 pete_dushenski ^japan's pm
23:59 * pete_dushenski is currently discovering the not inconsequential expense of new starter motor in ls. $2k! how many g5s and ppcs is that, goodness.
23:59 BingoBoingo What is wrong with just taking out motor and making crank?
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