Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-08-04 | 2016-08-06 → ↓
00:32 * ben_vulpes also interested
00:34 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: remember https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjT4s9MkbRc ?
00:42 mircea_popescu whatcha interested in ben_vulpes ?
00:43 ben_vulpes text based eulora client
00:43 mircea_popescu ah ah.
00:45 * ben_vulpes helps shinohai with the log line recency citation criteria binary search project
00:46 mircea_popescu i guess someone'll have to bite teh bullet and make the thing.
00:49 * ben_vulpes will probably commit some x11 atrocity
00:50 ben_vulpes can one detatch from an x11 display and then later reconnect to it, a la tmux?
00:50 mircea_popescu if you run it in screen i dun see why not
00:52 ben_vulpes woof yeah that looks like it might work in theory
00:54 mircea_popescu in other totally-not-tmsr-related news, https://static.adzerk.net/Advertisers/e1b0517082e54a8aa734356cf93f5183.png
00:56 ben_vulpes the photos i've seen of brasilia mostly look tacky as hell, is it any better in person?
00:57 ben_vulpes i mean wtf does lawn really mean "dust rectangle" to brazilians?
00:58 ben_vulpes oh hey the bridge is pretty cool though
01:00 mircea_popescu brasilia the capital of brasil you mean ?
01:00 mircea_popescu about as shitty as wdc
01:01 ben_vulpes quelle triste
01:02 ben_vulpes bits and pieces look like they might be fun to be proximate to for an hour or two
01:02 mircea_popescu tristesse ?
01:02 ben_vulpes yeah, gutter spanish leaking through
01:04 ben_vulpes https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Palacio_do_Planalto.jpeg << this, i would wander around for a few minutes.
01:05 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515200 << i think it was with a tool. maybe even an improved hoe or something
01:05 a111 Logged on 2016-08-05 02:45 mircea_popescu: iirc danielpbarron got that sizable barehanded, too.
01:05 ben_vulpes https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f2/dc/c2/f2dcc2b9360dc2b30b1d542c131e79e5.jpg << and also holy crap i want one of these
01:06 mircea_popescu ah was it ? ok then
01:07 danielpbarron plenty of ordinaries i got barehanded, and at least one remarkable
01:09 mircea_popescu o yeah i got a dozen the past ~3 days.
01:09 mircea_popescu ordinaries i mean
01:09 danielpbarron more i think about it, i may have gotten that sizable without foxybot, which means... I must have been fortunate enough to see it happen while xmacroing and was able to lock it in time
01:10 mircea_popescu you know the bot totally spoiled me in the sense that i'd go with sticks, and find ords and then totally forget to lock them
01:10 mircea_popescu "what do you mean they don't autolock"
01:11 mircea_popescu must have lost like 5 or 6 this way
~ 31 minutes ~
01:42 mircea_popescu and in other big dick news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTB-kFA-WyE
~ 3 hours 4 minutes ~
04:46 jurov i just have embedded ecl in eulora and made quite a complete functionality available to it
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04:47 jurov but whole thing is still the graphical client married to crystalspace
04:47 jurov see http://minigame.bz/jurov/ 0.1.2 not there yet
04:49 jurov ben_vulpes shinohai ^
~ 1 hours 59 minutes ~
06:49 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 13118913265992357713749906968914856459229448329385353928317865240153186990772616410386066804476994406481496060266687741570826925431077185850750051547683307 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.65.247 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.65.247 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+112.16.65.247@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
06:49 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 13118913265992357713749906968914856459229448329385353928317865240153186990772616410386066804476994406481496060266687741570826925431077185850750051547683307 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '112.16.65.245 (ssh-rsa key from 112.16.65.245 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+112.16.65.245@mkj.lt>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchla
~ 31 minutes ~
07:20 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-04#1514975 <<< in retrospect, I should have mentioned that < 2/3 of this was mircea_popescu always saying "you should qntra" and me finally saying "ok. goddamn. I'll do it already."
07:20 a111 Logged on 2016-08-04 20:32 BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2016/08/04/why-you-should-have-been-reading-and-writing-qntra-this-whole-time/
~ 50 minutes ~
08:11 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1b3g
08:11 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 44 minutes ~
08:56 thestringpuller oh look the drinking record has been updated
09:07 mircea_popescu ah nice jurov
09:07 mircea_popescu btw you still making windows binary releases ?
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09:08 PeterL BingoBoingo "Access to sanely parse" s/parse/parsed
09:09 mircea_popescu shinohai hey, it's how i ended up looking at bitcoin.
09:11 shinohai Now I am grateful for the prodding Sr. Popescu.
09:17 mircea_popescu where the fuck is that utf thumbsup
09:17 mircea_popescu
09:18 mircea_popescu omgawd phf log's broken! WHERE IS MY WATERGUN
09:19 shinohai 8999.66 <<< this is # of shares in circulation by s.mg ?
09:20 shinohai *# of BTC i mean
09:21 PeterL "S.MG has a total of 88`096`605 authorised shares outstanding. The shareholder equity per share implied value is thus 0.00009958 BTC."
09:21 mircea_popescu yeah it raised like 9k when it ipo'd
09:22 mircea_popescu there's also some stock warrants outstanding, which is a matter that is still open wrt valuations in btc.
09:22 shinohai nice
09:23 mircea_popescu or at leas afk, out of all the "corporate officers" in their own mind and "cummulative years of expertise" echo'd by php scripts on websites, nobody has actually found it within their power to say anything intelligent on the topic lo these many years.
09:26 thestringpuller ;;calc 46377 * 0.00014970
09:26 gribble 6.9426369
09:26 thestringpuller ;;ticker
09:26 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 570.47, Best ask: 572.62, Bid-ask spread: 2.15000, Last trade: 572.58, 24 hour volume: 5358.74239655, 24 hour low: 552.0, 24 hour high: 583.97, 24 hour vwap: 570.519062008
09:27 thestringpuller will s.mg start paying tax now that it's profitable or is that just for dividend paying?
09:28 shinohai i thought of doing a piece comparing s.mg to bitcrystals but it would likely sound too biased
09:28 thestringpuller they're two different concepts.
09:29 shinohai i was trying to generalize. there are a lot of other places id have to look to do an objective gaming piece
09:29 PeterL is s.mg profitable yet?
09:30 mircea_popescu it's not altogether clear it's profitable.
09:30 mircea_popescu in any case what's the rush, if it pays now or later ; as long as it's not paid dividends it doesn't much make a diff.
09:32 thestringpuller Bitcrystals literally copied MTG-online (ironic), and replaced the credit system in MTG with BitCrystals.
09:32 thestringpuller But it's revolutionary cuz ur digital pokemonz cardz are on da blockchainz!!!!!1
09:33 mircea_popescu which is mtg ?
09:33 mircea_popescu oh magic the gathering ?
09:33 mircea_popescu that's not a business, the moment they make a dime they get sued and what are they gonna do ? hire an assassin ?
09:34 shinohai it's another Erik Voorhees venture, did you expect anything different ?
09:34 mircea_popescu heh.
09:34 PeterL mircea_popescu https://www.anony.ws/image/NncR the table on your page gets truncated in my browser (chrome)
09:35 mircea_popescu that sucks.
09:35 mircea_popescu well, you can see the whole thing in page source, data's there.
09:35 PeterL aha, I hadn't thought of that
09:36 thestringpuller The guys who did A Tale in the Desert did a game. (A tale in the desert was a partial inspiration for chetty iirc)
09:36 mircea_popescu i recall she played it, way back when. before btc even.
09:36 thestringpuller Dragon's Tale! that's the bitcoin one they made
09:36 thestringpuller it's just a digital casino but has the same "feel" as ATITD
09:37 mircea_popescu yeah, at least that was you know, a proper thing. there's a difference between drawing a cartoon mouse and copy/pasting mickey.
09:37 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: yea her and I had some good convo's about ATITD it's a great game. Not many people have played it, but the crafting system was something really intense for the time period.
09:38 thestringpuller like mega crafting villages and "world wonders" and such. (I think each age is denoted when a community builds a world wonder)
09:38 mircea_popescu they had some interesting teamwork items that i intend to lift.
09:38 mircea_popescu like at some point she was doing some shit with 3 friends where they kept lifting something or the other in order.
09:40 deedbot [Qntra] Hacked Exchange Other Than Bitfinex Also Plans Reopening - http://qntra.net/2016/08/hacked-exchange-other-than-bitfinex-also-plans-reopening/
09:40 thestringpuller sounds promising.
09:40 mircea_popescu shinohai it's trading DAMN IT SON!
09:41 thestringpuller re: shinohai I don't think many bitcoin games exist other than eulora and dragon's tale. i don't see why more secondlife-like game companies don't get on board. since USG killed second life by regulating linden dollars.
09:41 thestringpuller i don't see that being a problem for regulating eulora coppers
09:42 mircea_popescu hey, people are lazy and stupid. there's a very good explanation why they don't do anything intelligent. for one thing, it requires work.
09:42 mircea_popescu for the other, they're not in the demo.
09:43 thestringpuller indie developers are just in a crab bucket race for a 15 minute spotlight before going back into obscurity. so exaclty as you described. phil fish (maker of FEZ) is a primary example of what's wrong with game development
09:44 thestringpuller if you ever want to torture yourself, watch Indie Game the Movie and watch the beta male Phil Fish literally cry about how difficult making a game is and wants to give up.
09:44 thestringpuller like tears and snot and everything
09:44 mircea_popescu i can't summon teh interest.
09:45 thestringpuller you can call out beta males on being pussies.
09:45 mircea_popescu the problem is, nobody wants to intern, everyone wants to pretend equality to their betters, then "oh it's hard". fucking hell, how would it be easy, you're a child that's given himself adult responsibilities which precluded you from becoming an adult in time. hurr durr, stop being stupid.
09:45 mircea_popescu every single fucktard "businessman" in bitcoin thinks himself a CEO.
09:46 mircea_popescu fuck this shit, 1% of 1% of what crawls out of woman isn't fit to be an officer.
09:46 mircea_popescu why pretend ? not like it makes it so!
09:46 mircea_popescu then "life is hard". well yes, if the turtle didn't pretend to be an eagle it wouldn't have all the bumps on the carpace from all the rocks it hit on its many forced descents.
09:49 mircea_popescu the only thing i regret is that they're not pretending to be you know, boxers. drug lords.
09:49 mircea_popescu THIS is the deep reason so many black kids get shot, incidentally : that it's not fashionable to be a "ceo", it's fashionable to be a "gangsta". and the idiots get shot. humongo boon for the black community, and ~the only reason they don't suck as bad as whitey.
09:50 thestringpuller The interesting thing, is the profound games the arise out of the sludge. While the children try to make toys and pass them off as "real things", (when it's just glue and twigs stuck together purporting to be a doll). For instance the Beginner's Guide puts you in the role of having that mentality. This "I want recognition for nothing. Call me CEO, bitch. Cause Zuckerberg did it."
09:50 thestringpuller And after playing teh Beginner's Guide you walk away thinking, "Wow a lot of people are pieces of shit, pretending to have talent. How could I not recognize this before?"
09:51 mircea_popescu if, quia absurdum, i were to take a 13 yo and call her a slave and a slut, and ordered everyone in the harem to be deferential to her majestic slavish sluttery, the girls would do it, but the 13 yo STILL wouldn't feel accomplished, or be happy, or anything. on the contrary, it'd poison her life.
09:52 mircea_popescu why it's evidently a bad idea here but not even verbalized as a bad idea there is entirely beyond comprehension.
09:52 thestringpuller the trophy generation huh? here is a reward for participating even if you sucked.
09:52 mircea_popescu personally, i blame the english language, which is why all the various knocks it got.
09:53 thestringpuller this reminds me of the article of the type of game that hand holds you to the end. lack of difficult == lack of accomplishment
09:53 mircea_popescu word.
09:54 thestringpuller bbl
09:54 mircea_popescu also, the same fucking thing with the "bright" young "finance" minds (which, btw asciilifeform , is the deep reason i dun think much of "performance enhancing" - these idiots, not those idiots) : yes the job is very... metaphysical, in the end. yes some accomplished metaphysicians use various "performance enhancers", ever since the day they were priests and shamans.
09:54 mircea_popescu THIS DOESN'T FUCKING MEAN random dicklet from ohio will be a "successful trader" for "doing coke off whore's asscrack"
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09:54 mircea_popescu it's not a fucking mechanism ffs.
09:55 PeterL shinohai aha, I found the 8`999.6605 btc, that is the total value that would be raised by S.MG if all outstanding warrents were executed, not the amount previously raised
09:55 mircea_popescu wait, what ?!
09:56 shinohai that is the number i wanted
09:56 PeterL in the warrents table
09:56 mircea_popescu right it's ipo + what warrants yield.
09:56 mircea_popescu technically sws work as a sort of "deferred ipo", at least so far.
09:57 PeterL none have been executed yet, right?
09:57 mircea_popescu none yet.
09:57 PeterL does not make much sense to execute them until the price rises, I suppose
09:57 thestringpuller they will when the coffers fill up
09:58 mircea_popescu well, more like irl this is 99% a tax consideration. nobody's dodging the republic's tax anyway, so not much difference.
09:58 mircea_popescu at least that's what i think, who even knows.
09:58 thestringpuller S.MG stock warrants act exactly as stock bonuses in "corporate" should work, you add value to the company. company profits. Execute warrant. Profit.
09:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515346 << cheapo honda engine sitting in traffic jam in wash dc also won't benefit from nitro fuel.
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09:59 a111 Logged on 2016-08-05 13:54 mircea_popescu: THIS DOESN'T FUCKING MEAN random dicklet from ohio will be a "successful trader" for "doing coke off whore's asscrack"
09:59 mircea_popescu yes, but the warrant is worth ~same executed or unexecuted.
09:59 asciilifeform noshit.jpg.
09:59 thestringpuller Whereas stock bonus in corporate means "WOuld you like to voluntarily keep your slave contract going for another few years? If you do there is this cheese waiting for you at the end of the maze. The cheeze MAAAY spoil in the meantime cause the leadership had a lobotomy in the 90's but it's okay."
09:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform tis a lot easier to measure the engine capacity than the metaphisicity. by definition of latter.
10:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: think of afterburners on jet fighter. there are no afterburners on boeing liner. for good reason.
10:00 mircea_popescu this is not so clear.
10:01 mircea_popescu moreover, it's entirely unclear how you'd go about distinguishing a jet fighter from an airliner when they're both bipedal lifeforms.
10:01 mircea_popescu leaving aside the MUCH HARDER q of how'd you distinguish self.
10:01 PeterL yes, but the warrant is worth ~same executed or unexecuted. << If the company pays dividends, wouldn't it be worth more when executed?
10:01 mircea_popescu PeterL yes, it would.
10:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is just as strange a question as 'how do i distinguish if i am ceo', or napoleon, etc.
10:02 asciilifeform ~the man~ doesn't distinguish, and if he tries, and is laughably off target, he ends in asylum and issued a bicorn
10:02 mircea_popescu so then, both the safe and the ethically required position is "i guess i aren't, let me see the best i can do"
10:03 asciilifeform if everybody followed this dictum, there'd be no napoleon at all.
10:03 mircea_popescu and generally stop with the fucking titulature ; between the dizzy cow who thinks herself "an expert on geopolitics" for having a geopolitics degree from geopolitics university and alf thinking himself a "jet fighter" for reason of the rule of cool - no difference.
10:03 asciilifeform (and no anybody else worth the mention)
10:03 mircea_popescu this is deeply untrue.
10:03 mircea_popescu fewer napoleons, more cincinnatii would be widely preferable.
10:04 asciilifeform what, laser beam from the heavens has to illuminate you before you can finally napoleon ?
10:05 mircea_popescu napoleon is essentially 1700s herostratus. a more successful histrion, but that's a matter of circumstance mostly.
10:05 mircea_popescu you can not "BE" napoleon ffs. what is with all this label-based categorical thinking.
10:05 asciilifeform shorthand for 'exceptional mover of things' conventionally
10:06 mircea_popescu like what, a fart ?
10:06 asciilifeform on account of their one-time over-representation in asylums
10:06 mircea_popescu i dun think much of your historical model.
10:06 mircea_popescu for one thing, there was no shortage of napoleons, even at the time of napoleon.
10:07 mircea_popescu the ~only reason they didn't fill the asylums at that time has to do with the relative naivite of spamfilters.
10:07 mircea_popescu im sure the first few "buy viagra" emails were also widely read.
10:07 asciilifeform 'napoleon' is typically shorthand for 'effective napoleon', unless the asylum is explicitly specified, neh ?
10:07 mircea_popescu i have no idea what your symbols are typical shorthand for.
10:08 mircea_popescu but do define "effective" in this context.
10:08 mircea_popescu what, effecting change for change's sake ?
10:08 asciilifeform more in the 'soldiers, i demand your lives, and you will give them to me!' (tm) (r) sense
10:08 mircea_popescu this is a purely sexual matter. yes, the guy was hot as all fuck.
10:08 mircea_popescu i didn't realise that was the angle.
10:09 * asciilifeform thought this was pretty clear from context..
10:09 mircea_popescu but youy can't "want to be hot" "like napoleon" ffs.
10:10 asciilifeform but - to move up the stack - mircea_popescu's comment re dopes was, in effect, 'shuddup peon and be content with what nature gave you' wasn't it ?
10:10 mircea_popescu there's two kinds of pretty blonde girls that grow double d tits their 15th year : the kind to whose the tits are a boon ; and the kind to whose the tits are a curse.
10:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, it was "stop being the fucking idiot who thinks he's going to '''improve''' a series car in his fucking garage with a rusty old nail and a blowtorch".
10:11 asciilifeform i dun really see a hard distinction between 'performance dopes' and, e.g., silicone tits, or heeled shoes, etc
10:11 mircea_popescu a discussion actually found here : http://trilema.com/2010/masini-bune-si-masini-de-lux/
10:11 mircea_popescu prolly worth a read.
10:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think you deeply misunderstand this technological item, the silicone tits.
10:12 asciilifeform not being an aficionado, it is possible that i do not
10:12 mircea_popescu it's point is not to make a mousy 15 yo into a total pool party slut. its point is to recover an aging slut, so that she gets a 2nd run starting in her 30s sometime.
10:12 asciilifeform well yes.
10:12 mircea_popescu it's a kind of dentistry - children don't need it, they got milk teeth.
10:12 asciilifeform 15 y.o. don't performance-dope either
10:12 asciilifeform they have energy.
10:12 mircea_popescu it's not a kind of "genetic engineering" of the "magical" kind seen in ~cartoons, "this spider touched radioactive superglue at the same time as this janitor"
10:13 asciilifeform noshit
10:13 mircea_popescu no, actually, 15yos do speedballs like fucking crazy
10:13 asciilifeform that's not performance-doping.
10:13 asciilifeform just plain doping.
10:13 mircea_popescu it's not "they have the energy", it's "they actually care" + "they have the recuperative power".
10:13 mircea_popescu aaaaa-hahahaha
10:13 mircea_popescu stop being a tightass. speedballing is the ~only performance doping actually shown to work.
10:13 mircea_popescu you think partying is easy ?
10:15 asciilifeform didn't mircea_popescu earlier proclaim 'doping dun work' ?
10:15 asciilifeform we might have disagreement on what means 'works' ?
10:15 mircea_popescu yes, but we were discussing it in the context of your "i wanna solve theorems"
10:15 mircea_popescu we weren't discussing it in the general context. fucking obviously doping works at some point, hence inflamation supression.
10:16 mircea_popescu "the performance of my inflamatory cascade has been enhanced. asa result i am not going to die from this beesting"
10:16 mircea_popescu patently not what you had in mind. nor at any point a contested usage.
10:16 asciilifeform quite similar, actually, to what i had in mind.
10:17 asciilifeform 'idiot body thinks that it should conserve the glucose, but i have this 7-dimensional optimization problem that won't solve itself so shuddthefuckup'
10:17 mircea_popescu then i don't think much of your biological model of rationality, either.
10:17 asciilifeform i'd be worried if mircea_popescu began to think much of my models.
10:18 mircea_popescu you seriously imagine it's a matter of "if i just increased the voltage of the south bus, i'd have twice as much ram" ? what is this, 15yo-overclockers-anonymous ?
10:18 asciilifeform nah, 25 y.o. overclockers, 'i'ma boost voltage by 0.1 and pump nitrogen'
10:18 asciilifeform an engineering tradeoff, like any other.
10:18 mircea_popescu here's a newsflash : there's no mechanism to downregulate brain consumption of glucose, outside of the natural.
10:18 asciilifeform upregulat.
10:18 mircea_popescu if you have it, and it can burn it, it will.
10:18 asciilifeform ~up~
10:19 mircea_popescu if it CAN burn it, it WILL.
10:19 mircea_popescu if it can't burn it, you can sit on a pole.
10:20 asciilifeform the pharmacology of actual dopes is interesting subj, which i will guess mircea_popescu is quite familiar with
10:20 asciilifeform cns comes with own adrenergic 'gas pedal', which most (but interesting, not ALL) of the dopes rely on.
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10:20 asciilifeform so in fact the thing does come with adjustment knob.
10:21 asciilifeform with well-understood tradeoffs.
10:21 mircea_popescu ~the only reason the complicated glucose/lipid interface even exists in the liver is that muscle can't protect itself from brain
10:22 asciilifeform ;;seen gabriel_laddel
10:22 gribble gabriel_laddel was last seen in #trilema 4 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 49 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <gabriel_laddel> wtf else are you going to do?
10:22 asciilifeform where is that fella when we have the thread as if just for him !
10:22 asciilifeform perhaps he over-revved his motor.
10:22 mircea_popescu heh. what is this "Gas pedal" in actual terms ?
10:23 asciilifeform was thinking of adrenergic and dopaminergic systems in particular
10:23 mircea_popescu this regulates firing. not glucose usage on one end ; not rational activity on the other.
10:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's analogy of 'overclock' is, as i understand, quite exact.
10:24 mircea_popescu we've moved from "i'll make this music better by increasing output volume" heavy metal fan approach to "i'll make this music better by speeding up the tape". welcome to the rap game yo!
10:25 asciilifeform the beatles also sped up (and slowed down) tape.
10:25 mircea_popescu i'm sure it's what made them.
10:25 asciilifeform this here, i suspect, is the dispute
10:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is reading a 'what made them' into asciilifeform's 'dope is a tool like any other, not a devil'
10:26 asciilifeform tape speed knob did not make the beatles, nor dope made erdos.
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10:26 asciilifeform nor will either transform pig into man
10:27 mircea_popescu i dunno whence "the devil" comes from, but that aisde, the point was that speedballing does work, if with miserable side effects ; whereas smartrophine or w/e the shit is hoped to work, by a certain demographic.
10:27 asciilifeform i have nfi what is the latter thing
10:28 mircea_popescu while there's not a single example of "high cns function helped by chemical", you can take ps hoffman as a fine example of "idiot enhanced himself"
10:28 asciilifeform was speaking strictly of dopes that 'work, if with miserable side effects'
10:28 mircea_popescu give such an example.
10:28 asciilifeform erdos's dextroamphetamine, for instance.
10:28 mircea_popescu so what problem will i be able to solve if i take how much dextroamphetamine ?
10:28 asciilifeform how would i possibly know
10:29 mircea_popescu i can buy by the kg if need be, and i'd like to find a way to classify assym cyphers meaningfully. say a number.
10:29 asciilifeform it would have to be a problem that is just out of reach with normal methods.
10:29 mircea_popescu so then WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN WORKS!
10:29 mircea_popescu motherfucker. if the problem is "go ten miles" then the fucking combustion engine works in that i can tell you a fucking fuel qty value.
10:30 mircea_popescu a.certain.demographic.hopes.it.works.
10:30 mircea_popescu exactly like another certain demographics hopes she'll be a princess soon.
10:31 mircea_popescu i can dose your daughter/sister/wife so she can party "like an animal" on the basis of seeing her naked and knowing how long the party lasts. that's what "speedballs work" means.
10:31 asciilifeform the head is not an off-the-shelf part, and so all of the manipulations are sadly subjective. possibly erdos could have achieved same result by having a servant whip him silly every morning. not my place, to say this.
10:31 mircea_popescu so then.
10:31 asciilifeform all we have re comparison is that time he made a bet and quit for month
10:32 asciilifeform and produced 0 theorem.
10:32 mircea_popescu good thing we spent half hour re-establishing the obvious that alf doesn't like.
10:32 asciilifeform which? the subjectivity ?
10:32 mircea_popescu eh whatever.
10:33 mircea_popescu it's like talking to bitcointalk i swear. "x works ; y doesn't" "no y is not the devil" "nobody said it is" "but it could work" "has it ?" "i dunno" "then wtf are you on about ?"
10:34 adlai if the problem is "go twenty hours" then the dope works in that you can pick a dose and go
10:35 adlai quite analogous to fuel quantity, although it's more of an additive than a fuel
10:35 mircea_popescu right.
10:36 mircea_popescu moreover, that two ten hour parties sum to less than one twenty hour parties is unclear ; that a hit takes a hit out of you is certain.
10:36 adlai the combustion engine alone can't follow lanes, or tell apart an overhead sign from a crossing trailer (the tesla fatality)
10:36 asciilifeform let's try slightly different question. people vary in endurance / energy / sleep req. just as they vary in height, etc.
10:36 asciilifeform doping is simply attempt to 'steal fire from the gods' and move up categories, paying whatever price.
10:38 asciilifeform that none of the existing dopes are demonstrably 'great idea for everyone, let's eat with breakfast' is quite a separate assertion from what i read to be mircea_popescu's supposition 'only idiot would try'
10:38 asciilifeform recall thread re mircea_popescu's pets and their iron pill ?
10:38 asciilifeform prior to iron pill, it was perhaps supposed that 'women vary in their energy level and that's that'
10:39 asciilifeform but ~someone~ took out a sharp meat cleaver, like mine, but larger, and CHOPPED the happenstance crud off.
10:39 asciilifeform and turned the 'natural, inevitable' into kibble.
10:39 mircea_popescu there is no fucking "categories". and this is a fundamental problem here, that you seem to imagine for whatever reason that the world is a large collections of drawers with labels on them.
10:39 mircea_popescu this model is nonsensical.
10:40 asciilifeform no drawers / discreteness implied.
10:40 mircea_popescu so then what do you mean "categories"
10:40 asciilifeform only the - quite obvious - fact that capacities vary.
10:40 asciilifeform some folks are taller/faster/stronger/need less sleep/etc. than others.
10:40 mircea_popescu so far the discussion is that capacities vary FOR A REASON. a biological reason.
10:40 mircea_popescu for instance, do you know you could shatter your own bones under your own muscular power ?
10:40 asciilifeform yes.
10:41 mircea_popescu o noes, "i increased my capacity". well... i can increase the "capacity" of my house circuitry right now, just short the fusebox.
10:41 asciilifeform and there are instances where i'd like to have the option of risking it
10:41 asciilifeform rather than to stay pinned under rubble.
10:41 mircea_popescu is this also a case of "o noes, mp is making shorting out hte fusebox into the devil - it could be useful"
10:41 asciilifeform and in fact your fusebox can temporarily supply pulse much greater than its steady current.
10:42 mircea_popescu sure, if you're a fuycking weirdo you may benefit from such nonsense. but a) it's a short term thing and b) whatevert you're doing, you're doing it wrongly, as evidenced by this perceived need to short out the fuse box
10:42 asciilifeform and often is asked to.
10:42 asciilifeform (when your ac motor starts, it is effectively 'short of fusebox')
10:42 asciilifeform so this is a deliciously bad analogy.
10:43 mircea_popescu not really.
10:44 mircea_popescu when you get startled you aslo "short of fusebox". the objection is at best disingenuous.
10:44 mircea_popescu "oh, alf decided he's going to solve problem by paying someone to startle him every 5 minutes"
10:45 asciilifeform eating, e.g., dopaminergic, and 'startling', have approx. same relationship as hormonal bc pill and actual gestation.
10:46 asciilifeform if asciilifeform had not personally watched mircea_popescu drink a cup of coffee, he might now suppose that it had never happened !
10:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: does it feel like a 'startled every 5 minutes' ?
10:46 mircea_popescu what IS a very bad analogy however, that i let pass though i shouldn't have, is the fucking iron pill. you don't know this, because insufficient exposure ; but i run a farm of women my whole life and let me tell you that a) pernicious anemia is still a fucking thing. unlike syphilis that isn't since antibiotics, pa is, iron pill or no ; b) iron pill doesn't work worth a shit. every fucking time i'd try every glycosulcinate, f
10:46 mircea_popescu errofuckitsmother and etc. girl doesn't absorb, has to go on diet of chicken livers and so on. THAT works.
10:46 mircea_popescu and they had chicken livers in 5000 ad, also.
10:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i entirely believe it, i have 1 such right here
10:47 asciilifeform kept as pet.
10:47 asciilifeform fed it the very same iron pill, to substantial effect.
10:47 mircea_popescu the piddly coffee i drink, drowned in milk as it is, has ~0 effect i can discern.
10:47 shinohai http://archive.is/LbhgO <<< lulzy
10:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, good for you then. but generally in modern anemia the problem is bad genetics leading to poor intestinal uptake.
10:48 mircea_popescu shinohai lol!
10:49 shinohai he was running wptron!
10:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: would be interesting to learn why the chicken liver worx
10:51 mircea_popescu i have nfi, but it's quite fascinating indeed.
10:52 asciilifeform who the fuck even knows how much individual variation is accounted for by 'different uptake of x'
10:52 mircea_popescu intuitively, you'd think "oh well, there's these many oxidative presentations of iron, i've tried them all, time for you to say goodbye to life". yet, chiken liver works. bloody steak somewhat but not as greatly (and only with proper red wine anyway, so clearly oxidative pathway)
10:52 asciilifeform there was actually an interesting experiment, one of the VERY few useful 'human genetic sequence' finds i know of,
10:53 mircea_popescu so you next suppose "oh, it's because the pill creates this point with a gradient, whereas livers are distributed". so you grind it into a dust, mix it in say, humus. nnnnnope...
10:53 asciilifeform where two sets of people were fed dopaminergic (some amphetamine or other) and then tortured with puzzles, etc. subjectively both pools 'liked', but only one set actually outscored
10:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the intestine ? LOTS of it. the intestinal surface is just as fucking complex as the brain. it selects certain bacterial populations ffs.
10:53 mircea_popescu through complex interactions with their dna no less.
10:54 asciilifeform and they had an identifiable mutation.
10:54 PeterL might have to do with how the iron is complexed with organics in the liver, mostly non-complexed in the pill
10:54 asciilifeform if adlai or PeterL recall the paper, plx link.
10:54 mircea_popescu PeterL quite possibly. though...
10:55 mircea_popescu i mean... ammonium citrate. useless. but just how complex does this coordination have to get ?
10:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'd bet that the iron is at least partly 'red herring', and you need some enzyme that magicks the absorption
10:56 asciilifeform found in liver.
10:56 mircea_popescu i'm pretty sure it's the gut, myself, but then again wtf do we know.
10:57 PeterL could be both (needs some enzyme to get through gut, another to change the complex coordination in liver so the rest of the body can use it)
10:57 PeterL just throwing out ideas
10:58 PeterL maybe a red herring would be a healthy diet addition ;)
10:58 mircea_popescu yes but... i tried lactate. i tried glycosulphate. i mean... holy shit, what, does it come as part of a chunk of protein eight miles long, to count ?
10:58 asciilifeform quite conceivably.
10:58 mircea_popescu yeah well...
10:58 PeterL bigger is better, right?
10:58 mircea_popescu apparently.
10:58 mircea_popescu women, you know ?
10:59 mircea_popescu PeterL ironically, the reason i'm convinced it's genetics is that of the (~half dozen) girls i encountered with the problem, ALL hated nordic fish
10:59 mircea_popescu ie, heavy oil fish like herring.
11:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so how do you find out if you have the erdos gene ?
11:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the article mentioned earlier gave a locus. will post when i find it, prolly will have to dig through optical disks.
11:05 mircea_popescu aite!
11:06 asciilifeform also holy FUCK is pig-wrestling a waste of time, http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/89713/offline-rsa-strong-prime-test-similar-to-phuctor#comment247283_89715
11:08 mircea_popescu lol why am i reading this.
11:08 mircea_popescu don't tell me, "it's where the experts gather" ?
11:08 asciilifeform expert sexchangers.
11:09 mircea_popescu oh i fucking linked this didn't i
11:09 mircea_popescu mea culpa.
11:09 asciilifeform aha!
11:09 asciilifeform lel
11:09 mircea_popescu "why am i reading this ?" "you linked it!" "oh..."
11:09 asciilifeform it pops up every 6 mo or so.
~ 21 minutes ~
11:31 jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515272 sure.
11:31 a111 Logged on 2016-08-05 13:07 mircea_popescu: btw you still making windows binary releases ?
11:31 mircea_popescu cool. new one's up, 0.1.2b plox.
11:32 mircea_popescu it was a painless ~10 minute compile for everyone who tried it so far, but diana_coman 's kinda curious if that holds out in win or not.
11:33 shinohai it isn't difficult at all to build, and jurov's deb makes it even easier
11:35 mircea_popescu shinohai did i see you in game ?
11:39 danielpbarron 10 minute!!??
11:44 mircea_popescu how long did you take ?
11:50 danielpbarron half hour at least, maybe an hour
11:51 mircea_popescu was it ftjam ?
11:51 mircea_popescu did you for some reason to a full recompile ?
11:55 danielpbarron jam -aq client
11:55 danielpbarron it was painless though
11:56 mircea_popescu i guess it depends on machine to a more significant degree than i thought.
11:56 mircea_popescu my ftjam finished in 12:44 on this (kinda old) machine
11:56 danielpbarron just downloaded and verified the new tar.gz, unpacked it into ~/development , ran the same recompile.sh script as before
~ 16 minutes ~
12:13 shinohai http://archive.is/iGXas <<< further mmporg lulz
12:23 shinohai oh yes mircea_popescu i met you in game, was gonna pair up with danielpbarron one day but system froze after a few minutes walking :/
12:24 mircea_popescu you know, someone had a similar problem due to ancient gfx card / old drivers or somesuch. iirc there's a solution to tone down world items.
12:25 danielpbarron hah i just closed out my client to re-apply exactly those changes
12:25 danielpbarron http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-07-21.log.html#t16:30:27 << here's how
12:26 hanbot ah, danielpbarron beat me to it. was gonna post my config file, had similar issues as shinohai
12:26 shinohai thanx
12:26 mircea_popescu o look at that, chetty!
12:27 shinohai Powered by latest chettymodz lol
12:31 asciilifeform http://ria.ru/society/20160805/1473700232.html << unrelated, ru lulz. 'ru national guard refuses to enforce evictions' of squatters, debtors
12:32 deedbot [Trilema] Eulora Forward Looking Statement, August 2016 - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-forward-looking-statement-august-2016/
12:41 asciilifeform moar lulz, https://www.yubico.com/2016/05/secure-hardware-vs-open-source << who recall this turd? from the age of mtgox? it is now IMPROVED!1111 with moar closedsoresness!111 and has lengthy and hilarious justification thereof.
12:44 asciilifeform in more recent noose, linus approved switch of /dev/urandom algo, http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1607.3/00275.html
12:45 asciilifeform ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1607.3/02631.html << him )
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
13:47 mircea_popescu is this good for bit-coin ?
13:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7d3ac59a-372b-4ec9-bef7-408f614d6217/?raw=true
13:50 mircea_popescu why ty!
13:52 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515260 << eg repl-in-crystalspace? or must run crystalspace but then can attach an emacs repl to it?
↖
13:52 a111 Logged on 2016-08-05 08:46 jurov: i just have embedded ecl in eulora and made quite a complete functionality available to it
13:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/408ea34c-f51e-4243-99ca-6b239035a73f/?raw=true << source code of A2, for your study
13:55 mircea_popescu aite!
~ 50 minutes ~
14:46 hanbot http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ident?i=TMSR << so famous
14:46 mircea_popescu lol
14:47 mircea_popescu sure, and there's a nasdaq tmsr, and some canadian band ; and thorium-molten salt reactors and what have you.
14:47 hanbot sue the salt sue the salt
14:47 mircea_popescu lol!
14:48 mircea_popescu actually scratch that, apparently nasdaq no longer knows of it.
14:48 mircea_popescu but they made pc peripherals 20 years ago
14:49 ben_vulpes whip the salt, sue the nasdaq
14:58 hanbot http://cranbrookart.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ruth2010-7-hi-e1411752849600.jpg << front & center on "program description" page for fine arts at some michigan uni. no explanation, but does point out that yes, those are potatoes.
↖
14:59 mircea_popescu ahahaha what
14:59 hanbot nfi
14:59 mircea_popescu wtf is with the potatoes already ? you know they have a fucking STATUE of like... corn, in ohio ?
14:59 mircea_popescu this shit is ~what pig-run world would be like.
14:59 hanbot you mean the concrete cornfield? i wish it were a single statue.
14:59 mircea_popescu and why are they in the corner ? been punished ?
15:00 mircea_popescu wait, there's more ?
15:00 mircea_popescu in other, just about equal level weblulz, there's https://archive.is/BPQc1
15:00 hanbot maybe it's interactive, you visit and pummel the subjects with the spuds.
15:01 hanbot next piece is just the wall, entitled, "i promise it's just ketchup"
15:01 mircea_popescu apparently r/btc exists to collect the various idiots who never heard of obama and think the russians invaded atlanta, georgia like a decade ago.
15:01 mircea_popescu hanbot is it like, for special needs ?
15:02 hanbot iono dude, this project is making me think there's no regular needs institutions up there
15:02 mircea_popescu lol
15:05 hanbot lol "Want (MP) the one who put out that hot notice on sipa one time?"
15:07 asciilifeform #define TMSR (1<<5) /* Timer soft reset. */
15:07 asciilifeform lel.
15:07 mircea_popescu in other ~news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/42006c6cccd7173d3ec31dc18af50f15/tumblr_n8fd1qxoOv1ravtw5o9_400.gif
15:15 asciilifeform 'The July 2016 estimate was not part of the agreement, and certainly not a deadline. It was (at the time) a reasonable expectation based on the agreement terms. Speaking only for myself, I made the promise with sincerity, and intend to uphold it best I can (despite the almost immediate violation by one of the parties).' << can anyone translate this to human language ?
15:19 asciilifeform moar gems,
15:19 asciilifeform '...when Gavin was leading development it seemed like there was no reason to panic or rock the boat. He's reasonable and not a member of the perfectly decentralized everyone-runs-a-full-node-at-home-in-moms-basement-on-bare-metal fairy tale woo-woo cult.'
15:20 shinohai my sides
15:21 asciilifeform '...What people are failing to understand about cryotocurrencies is that insofar as there is friction entailed in forking away we will see some government-type behavior from dev teams. We need to understand both that this will always happen... The trick as an investor is to not get spooked during that period where the pressure is building but still not big enough to overcome the friction. Where it looks like the wall will hold foreve
15:21 asciilifeform r if you just extrapolate. It eventually must fall, as the burden of forking away is not that large...'
15:22 asciilifeform pinoys workin' overtime
15:22 ben_vulpes what schelling point
15:24 mircea_popescu what the fuck am i re...
15:24 mircea_popescu fuck, i linked it again didn't i.
15:24 asciilifeform aaaha.
15:25 mircea_popescu this is like when you keep waking up in bed with ugly women.
15:25 mircea_popescu i gotta stop drinking.
↖
15:25 asciilifeform the sheer gas pressure of the turd is mind-bending
15:25 asciilifeform reading that thread, i feel like eskimo drinkin' rotgut
15:25 mircea_popescu im sure it's all investors.
15:25 asciilifeform (esp. on account of not having a reddit habbit personally)
15:26 asciilifeform *habit
15:26 mircea_popescu anyway, this is the special preserve r/btc where the idiots went once theymos took away their shitposting rights in r/bitcoin
15:27 mircea_popescu considering a large part of the historical beef with tardstalk was over mismanagement of shitposting rights for idiots, the adventure of r/bitcoin is not particularly encouraging.
15:27 mircea_popescu seems to be the case that for as long as you interact with idiots, what you do doesn't really matter all that much.
15:28 mircea_popescu nowadays a rather banal observation, but i guess not quite as crystallized in 2012.
15:33 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-05#1515617 << Cranbrook is a prep school, not uni (That's where Mitt Romney did high school, iirc)
15:33 a111 Logged on 2016-08-05 18:58 hanbot: http://cranbrookart.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ruth2010-7-hi-e1411752849600.jpg << front & center on "program description" page for fine arts at some michigan uni. no explanation, but does point out that yes, those are potatoes.
15:34 mircea_popescu o.O
15:35 mircea_popescu now i wonder if he had to sit facing the wall.
15:35 PeterL I seem to remember they have a nice museums for art and science on the campus, my dad would take me there a couple times a year as a kid
15:37 mircea_popescu why don't they showcase that then i wonder.
~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~
17:00 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the land of the lulcowz, https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2016-08-05/?msg=70809464&page=1
~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~
18:05 hanbot PeterL of interest was their "Academy of Art", degree-granting. not their prep school.
~ 15 minutes ~
18:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform more interesting, "who's this suddenly very active jeremy rubin character"
18:20 mircea_popescu https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/1a3260431b3ee4afbaa0 etc.
18:20 asciilifeform why the replacement-gavin.
18:20 asciilifeform who else.
18:20 asciilifeform i did say !
18:20 mircea_popescu heh.
18:21 mircea_popescu changed block headers, the works.
18:22 asciilifeform it isn't as if golem-clay is a limited resource.
18:22 asciilifeform never a shortage.
18:23 mircea_popescu https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/6eec0427edec6e68755ae274b27baae5 << other lulz.
18:23 mircea_popescu but yes, having the "fork" nonsense defeated, and the "we'll promote a shitcoin" defeated leaves the usg.lizzards ... one option.
18:23 asciilifeform https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/6eec0427edec6e68755ae274b27baae5 << and hey, hey, hey, let's add race conditions to gavincoin
18:23 asciilifeform didja know, it needed some.
18:24 mircea_popescu no it's not gavin coin, because old wedding picture was associated to random string! it's jeff rubin now!
18:24 asciilifeform 'у големов нет проблемов' (tm) (r) (pelevin)
18:25 mircea_popescu anyway. it's altogether unclear how on earth one will wipe them this time. intelligently they're no longer using a gavin, but ~an anon hydra.
18:25 mircea_popescu and the various noise groups are both incapable mentally of using a wot and actually very affraid of locking out newbies because they perceive an (wholly hallucinated, but w/e, they're immersed in socialist ideology) existential threat : "they'll die without noobies"
18:26 asciilifeform the only piece that 'compulsively welcomes noobs' is the ablative shield.
18:26 asciilifeform i walked past the fed bldg in washington not long ago, and did not notice a neon sign asking for noobs to go in.
18:26 mircea_popescu yes, but socialist mind is affraid of killing, for reasons.
18:27 asciilifeform killing, with honest and purposeful hand - yes. 'embrace & extinguish' ? plenty.
18:28 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/hbIQb << if it wasn't obvious.
18:29 mircea_popescu (grad student)
18:30 mircea_popescu which is the correct strategic choice, once the opponent has demonstrated the ability to behead your "academic" assets, zerg him with the academic aspie assets. they surely got the "man"-hours anyway.
18:34 mircea_popescu meanwhile at honest working girl ranch, http://66.media.tumblr.com/77015608eb8809acc9299cfda42280c7/tumblr_muqgezMtQK1rispuco1_1280.jpg
18:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as pioneered by elaine shi et al.
18:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: these are literally inexhaustible.
18:42 mircea_popescu aha.
18:42 mircea_popescu in other, not really related lulz : https://www.internations.org/
18:43 mircea_popescu "if you're the sort of guy who almost escaped the homeshitland, wouldn't you like to register in a cigna-powered "community of trust" ????"
18:43 mircea_popescu totally, if it's by invitation only i'll feel sooo fucking special.
18:43 mircea_popescu (cigna, for the noobs, is the usg dept of "insurance" human records)
18:45 asciilifeform most usa 'expats' are as close to escaping truly as i am to the moon by jumping with all my might.
18:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8bdc4b2d-2581-4b7a-a591-39b96b9a2ac6/?raw=true
~ 29 minutes ~
19:18 shinohai $up sexysophia
19:18 deedbot sexysophia voiced for 30 minutes.
19:19 shinohai hi sexysophia who are you?
19:22 mircea_popescu well... intelligence is sexy amirite.
19:23 shinohai http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ <<< she says here for this, speaks spanish?
19:23 mircea_popescu where does she say ?
19:23 shinohai pm
19:23 mircea_popescu besides, we speak spanish don't we ?
19:24 mircea_popescu so tell her to speak in chan liek normal ppls.
19:24 mircea_popescu hola sexysophia
19:25 sexysophia HI
19:26 sexysophia HI MIRCEA_POPESCU
19:26 mircea_popescu como anda
19:26 sexysophia BIEN
19:26 sexysophia THC
19:26 sexysophia TE DEJE UN MENSAGE
19:26 mircea_popescu sos aqui por http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ ?
19:27 sexysophia http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/
19:28 mircea_popescu ok, escribir b68fe7aa sobre sus tetas y tome una photo. como lost otras chicas.
19:29 sexysophia OK
19:29 mircea_popescu fucking spanish imperative i never get it right. escribe y toma, is it shinohai ?
19:30 shinohai si
19:30 shinohai escribe eso
19:45 mircea_popescu one of the best parts of ba this time of years is the invasion of freesia. wunderbar.
19:45 * mircea_popescu 's house is uniformly perfumed.
19:46 sexysophia http://i.imgur.com/oOT6CLq.png?1
19:47 sexysophia MIRCEA_POPESCU
19:47 mircea_popescu hehe mirror.
19:47 mircea_popescu nice sexysophia , now post your bitcoin address.
19:47 shinohai xD
19:47 shinohai nice
19:48 sexysophia 1GAc7mr1j14n4opVDwQnexVULwNJ5fQztz
19:48 mircea_popescu alrighty, sending it now.
19:48 mircea_popescu so where are you from ?
19:48 sexysophia COLOMBIA
19:48 mircea_popescu medelin hm ? how's the weather there
19:48 mircea_popescu $up sexysophia
19:48 deedbot sexysophia voiced for 30 minutes.
19:49 sexysophia GRACIAS
19:49 sexysophia CALI
19:50 mircea_popescu mi gusto. decile a tus amigas tambien :)
19:51 sexysophia OK
19:53 mircea_popescu como encontraste el articulo en trilema ?
19:59 asciilifeform soooo, http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-forward-looking-statement-august-2016 << 'From a technical perspective, the RSA migration is intended to work on the following scheme : RSA privkey is generated correctly ; this key and the server's key are used to pass OTPs between client and server' is fundamentally Right Thing.
20:00 sexysophia SI
20:01 * asciilifeform proposes to implement this subsystem for s.mg.
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20:04 mircea_popescu hm. like, s.mg to hire s.nsa as a subcontractor ?
20:06 asciilifeform aha.
20:08 mircea_popescu would it cost a lot ? would it take very long ?
20:09 asciilifeform answer would depend on what is specced, but if spec will substantially reflect linked trilema article, then, likely, not, and not.
20:09 mircea_popescu well... i guess specifics of this will be tied to specifics of that.
20:09 asciilifeform correct.
20:10 mircea_popescu gotta admit the idea is promising. so lessee...
20:10 mircea_popescu hm. im guessing we'll get together with diana_coman and write a spec ? unless you want to propose one ?
20:10 mircea_popescu currently the "what happens past key generation" and "there's an otp" part is left pretty loophole-y
20:11 asciilifeform diana_coman will be able to describe necessaries, e.g., bit rate.
20:11 asciilifeform and the constraints of the built & runtime.
20:11 mircea_popescu "largest message size" is more a sticking point.
20:12 asciilifeform not really, given that mircea_popescu already solved this problem in his article by describing 'otp pool'
20:12 asciilifeform the one sticking point may be entropy starvation on certain systems (it is my understanding that a number of eulora players are stuck on winblowz)
20:12 mircea_popescu possibly yeah.
20:13 mircea_popescu i'm also not entirely certain a symmetric cypher or perhaps hash-and-rehash scheme won';t be better.
20:13 asciilifeform that'd be more or less standard gpg mechanism.
20:13 mircea_popescu myeah.
20:14 mircea_popescu brb
20:14 * asciilifeform brb, food, will come back to this thread.
20:20 shinohai dat metadata tho
20:33 shinohai mine is no better than phf 's
20:33 shinohai worse perhaps
20:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so im thinking here, without a byte/sec sort of idea of what messaging is liable to look like, we can't really spec anything anyway.
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20:37 mircea_popescu $up pepegrillo
20:37 deedbot pepegrillo voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
22:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515769 << yes. also will need some detail re the desired glue (where subsystem plugs in? etc)
22:04 a111 Logged on 2016-08-06 00:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so im thinking here, without a byte/sec sort of idea of what messaging is liable to look like, we can't really spec anything anyway.
22:05 mircea_popescu that part is not hard : a) you get a client ; b) you write it a drop-in wrapper for the messaging - this should be one function/class + the keygen. the same class should be used by server the same way, which we'll do the integration of.
22:05 asciilifeform perhaps diana_coman will be able to give rough picture of the bit rate.
22:06 mircea_popescu yeah when she pops in i'm sure.
22:06 asciilifeform (this will determine how much optimizatory massage the item would need.)
22:07 mircea_popescu basic cryptoquestion i do not expect an answer to : is there a way to evaluate strength loss by hash pass in a scheme where otp is hashed and the hash used as next pass otp, for N passes of this ?
22:07 shinohai $s bitfinex
22:07 a111 199 results for "bitfinex", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitfinex
22:08 shinohai sob
22:08 shinohai $s blockchain.info
22:08 a111 619 results for "blockchain.info", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blockchain.info
22:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hash as stream cipher ?
22:08 mircea_popescu hash as say sha512
22:09 mircea_popescu but anyway, it's ok that there isn't : there ALSO isn't a way to evaluate strength loss due to "rng" starvation.
22:09 asciilifeform the one obvious gotcha is that if enemy can decipher (perhaps via known plaintext) ONE instance in the stream, he has the rest !
22:09 mircea_popescu so it's impossible to make a rational decision here, from both ends. win-win, as they say.
22:09 mircea_popescu the next, but not the previous.
22:09 mircea_popescu if he decyphers the 12th in a 12pass scheme he gets 1 message.
22:09 mircea_popescu if he decyphers the 1st he gets 12 messages.
22:09 asciilifeform aha.
22:09 mircea_popescu well, at least theoretically.
22:10 asciilifeform iirc bernstein's 'salsa' thing works on this method.
22:10 mircea_popescu anyway because messages are highly structured to begin with, there's a whole lotta attacking surface available.
22:10 asciilifeform it is a common way to stream cipher.
22:10 mircea_popescu (a large part of this project is me trying to field-evaluate crypto schemes in the first place)
22:10 shinohai has anyone checked the rng for the new blockchain.info `wallet`
22:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no i'm not discussing here "a way to community consensus". the question is quite specific : given 12 passes, tell me how much strength i lose adding a 13th.
22:11 mircea_popescu as a scalar, please.
22:11 mircea_popescu shinohai nope. how would you ?
22:11 asciilifeform unfortunately crypto schemes are not really experimentally testable on 'human' timescales - in the sense that even the dumbest algo appears to 'work great!111' until one day, likely quietly, it does not.
22:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cipher strength is now a quantifiable, scalar no less ?!
22:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm more concenred about obviously-not-working in practice. same principle as phuctor, really.
22:11 shinohai i dunno.
22:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in order for management to make decisions, all items must be put in the form a > b.
22:12 asciilifeform well-ordered != scalar
22:12 mircea_popescu i didn't mean it that way. i meant, all items must be reduced to TWO scalars.
22:13 asciilifeform to an ordering - sure.
22:13 mircea_popescu in this case : here is the security loss from adding a 13th step to the 12 step scheme : 79. here is the security loss from not adding it, because rng starvation : 45.
22:13 mircea_popescu only in this context the decision to "add it" or "not add it" can be said to make any sort of fucking sense.
22:13 asciilifeform the unfortunate thing about hashes is that they are every bit the voodoo that block ciphers are.
22:14 mircea_popescu myeah.
22:14 asciilifeform 'this appears to jumble the bits well, ergo cryptographically strong'
22:14 asciilifeform 'i cannot reverse it, thereby no one can!' etc.
22:15 asciilifeform this kind of thing is a large part of why crypto implementation tends to show the attributes of religious ritual
22:15 deedbot [Trilema] No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2016-statement/
22:15 asciilifeform 'hiring soothsayer, hire cheapest'
22:15 mircea_popescu anyway.
22:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform re glue, we'll be able to run a test server for it anyway.
~ 59 minutes ~
23:19 shinohai mircea_popescu: chick from earlier says to `profoundly thank you`
23:20 shinohai actually she was a very nice lady
~ 20 minutes ~
23:41 mircea_popescu cool!
23:41 mircea_popescu $up dvsdude
23:41 deedbot dvsdude voiced for 30 minutes.
23:42 dvsdude hey mp .....how goes it?
23:42 mircea_popescu profoundly, thank you.
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