Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2018-11-29 | 2018-12-01 →
01:08 asciilifeform ваше слово, товарищ маузер! (tm)
~ 3 hours 3 minutes ~
04:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform right, "lalala i can't hear you" until the very last moment, when the curtain drops. because why the fuck not, hurr.
04:13 mircea_popescu all this "self-confidence is the only education needed" nonsense reheheheally paid off.
~ 2 hours 18 minutes ~
06:31 deedbot << ave1 - , !
~ 1 hours 59 minutes ~
08:31 asciilifeform << holy fuq, the sort of liquishit that d00d's links offered as proofolade... picture trying to ~read~ this. ( and there's 9000 of'em )
~ 24 minutes ~
08:56 deedbot << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 10: Actions and RSA Keys
09:05 diana_coman asciilifeform, phf my sig for ffa ch3:
09:06 asciilifeform ty diana_coman ! i will sew it into ch14.
09:18 asciilifeform << i'll admit, i kept half-expecting him to actually read a ch of ffa and go 'hmm... maybe i should throw out my c hairball and mecha-proofisms' but of course no dice.
09:18 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 09:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right, "lalala i can't hear you" until the very last moment, when the curtain drops. because why the fuck not, hurr.
09:20 asciilifeform << see also e.g.
09:20 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 18:12 mircea_popescu: this place is for reading AND FOR CHANGING YOURSELF.
09:27 asciilifeform << and.
~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~
10:42 BingoBoingo Local Prison architecture
10:45 Mocky is it just me or does that look like baltimore?
10:45 BingoBoingo It's Libertad
10:47 asciilifeform hey BingoBoingo what do you call in english those strings ?
10:47 asciilifeform y'know, between the adjacent cell grates
10:47 asciilifeform ( in ru world they're кони , 'horses' )
10:48 asciilifeform one hooks up wads of paper with note , like spitball in kindergarten, to'em
10:48 BingoBoingo I am unsure, I missed them in the photo until you mentioned them
10:48 asciilifeform look specifically in -- the center 2 cells on bottom 2 rows are linked with horses
10:49 asciilifeform d00d whose cot is by the grate has the duty of 'keeping the road', as they called it (again nfi in english world what it is called there, much less in spanish empire)
10:49 asciilifeform road runs mainly at night, for obv reason.
10:50 BingoBoingo Aha
10:50 BingoBoingo Anyways, Libertad is about a third of the way from Montevideo to Colonia
10:51 asciilifeform the procedure for making the 'road' go is quite elaborate and much dwelled on in ru prison lit. ( gotta pull apart a sock, weave rope, make 'fishing rod' out of paper + bread glue etc , then run the 'horse' )
11:00 asciilifeform ( in ru variant, moar laborious cuz their setup tends to look moar like -- iron grate sorta like on modern 'central ac' duct, gotta be pried apart a little with sumthing )
11:03 asciilifeform ( technically 'horse' is the spitball, 'road' is the rope, but again in eng world whoknows, maybe whole tradition died/never born )
11:03 asciilifeform jailers pull'em down with hooks, so they get rebuilt regularly.
11:05 BingoBoingo The Uruguayos don't tend to lockup people for very long. Year+ in prison seems to be an anomaly
11:06 asciilifeform in current-day ru, as i understand you need repeated (1 corpse generally not suffice) wetwork to merit >decade
11:06 asciilifeform while in usg reich, effectively life sentence for ~errything, at least if yer white , is ~standard
11:09 asciilifeform ( there are 'lifers' in ru, typically 5+ corpses on ea., but they typically have life expectancy of ~7y . 1 survived to parole age last yr, it was enuff of an oddity that it was taken up in the fishwraps as newz )
11:13 asciilifeform diana_coman: and thx !
11:25 deedbot << Qntra - Argentina Buys US Soy
~ 59 minutes ~
12:24 mircea_popescu trinque re : considering both items in are at 6+ confirms now, i'd say the point re the utter irelevancy and thorough ireality of usg and its figments is well made enough to not need me to throw away dimes to rando idiot spammers.
12:24 a111 Logged on 2018-11-28 22:47 trinque: mircea_popescu: lulzy, but my coffers aren't stocked up for a supreme court fight just yet
12:24 a111 Logged on 2018-11-28 19:53 mircea_popescu: 0fb6460fcb88a0fbdc85d4f3b9505e69814ceacb3effd20b427d1b8d5689094e / 09c078a4040b1a044dc654e005bcc8b4c23523393d5244fd9c47408968555640 i see mempool txn right now.
12:24 asciilifeform ohai mircea_popescu
12:24 mircea_popescu though maybe BingoBoingo feels like updating the piece that started teh discussion with the corresponding mockery.
12:24 mircea_popescu how goes alfie.
12:24 asciilifeform another day in the lulzroom.
12:25 asciilifeform tried, for instance, to actually read zx2c4's hairball, ran outa barfbags
12:26 mircea_popescu lol if you insist on wasting time...
12:27 mircea_popescu btw Mocky -- teh bot dies through the following : often it makes so much stuff in one click it overwhelms its weight carrying capacity. any chance you can implement a fragmenter-if-overweight ? it's often enough to be a pain in the ass by now.
12:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well, asciilifeform is not usually the 'Пастернака не читал, но осуждаю'(tm)(r) type. so yes tried to read.
12:28 asciilifeform but (spoiler!) it aint actually readable.
12:28 asciilifeform approx on par with e.g. koch.
12:29 mircea_popescu dude's mental processes are of a certain ilk, whadda ya want.
12:29 asciilifeform ( and , in fact ~to the credit of~ koch, at least the latter didn't fuck about with 'proofs' )
12:29 mircea_popescu there's not this miracle in nature, "i know he doesn't wash, but he's a great guy!"
12:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i still can't make heads or tails of wtf was in that d00d's head. shows symptoms of some kinda maths education. but omfg the 'cd-r brain'.
12:31 mircea_popescu usual set of a) "you're special" cuntlet nonsense and b) "if its hard it means you don't have to do it" ustardation. they interplay the same way everywhere, it's a coherently broken philosophical system
12:31 asciilifeform folx ~do~ on occasion get out of e.g. the bottle. but ~this~ appears to be incurable, medicine is powerless.
12:31 mircea_popescu in fact, pretty much every single pantsuit mental cockroach can be deduced from a+b above, ~including~ the strictly contradictory bits, and also including the psychotic nonsednse that allows them to maintain contradictory beliefs.
12:32 mircea_popescu i'm sure curable. his problem is -- medicine is NOT INTERESTED.
12:32 mircea_popescu just like all bois could in fact be reproduced, if there were somewhere a girl with sufficient patience. there isn't.
12:32 asciilifeform i gave ~hour to attempt to cure. in retrospect it was folly, made 0 dent.
12:33 mircea_popescu you're kinda famous for your generosity in this vein, actually.
12:33 mircea_popescu nwwt.
12:36 asciilifeform it was quite similar, imho, to the gabriel laddel fella. clearly there was 'somebody home' in the crankcase, but under a thick haze of substances and detritus from indiscriminate suction of ??? from heathendom. 'salvation of the drowning is work for the selfsame drowning', what can i say.
12:36 mircea_popescu very unlikely. gl dood was young.
12:36 asciilifeform i pictured zx2c4 as also young, but i have nfi specifically
12:36 mircea_popescu there's a certain level of permissible idiocy in the youth. they come out of eggs.
12:37 asciilifeform was lulzy, incidentally
12:37 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
12:38 asciilifeform it's at least the 5th time i got that q, nearly lost count
12:38 mircea_popescu "how old are you cuz you derive" ?
12:38 asciilifeform the notion that sumbody might turn away from 'modernity' consciously, rather than because alzheimer patient, apparently is a bridge too far for some folx
12:39 mircea_popescu i suppose we're a priviledged set, had derive on ye olde 386, instead of "had stupid family, watched disney" or w/e.
12:39 mircea_popescu right, cuz the part where "it fucking worked" is something "we've all moved past" rite.
12:39 asciilifeform hey i even managed to see disneys. a coupla, with the trad ru dubbing translator with clothspin on his nose going mmmm
12:39 mircea_popescu lol. actually, i recently saw aladdin, at hanbot 's insistence. previously i think jungle book was last.
12:40 mircea_popescu they kinda went to shit in the 00s.
12:40 asciilifeform iirc that was last one i saw ( and the only 1 in orig lang )
12:40 asciilifeform after that they went to '3d'
12:40 asciilifeform ( and ran out of folklore to pillage )
12:41 mircea_popescu jungle book was honest, in this sense. pillaged their own anglo narratives.
12:41 asciilifeform 'where they cut off yer lips! if they dun like yer smile! it's barbaric, but hey it's home!'
12:41 asciilifeform (aladdin)
12:41 asciilifeform ^ for some reason was censored from 'dvd' disc ver., iirc
12:41 mircea_popescu but yes, alladin carries a pretty fucking strong scent of "oh, hi, we're ohioan squarejaws wearing bedsheets. totally legit rome sir. rome, ohio."
12:41 asciilifeform rright but moar or less unperfumed with pretense
12:42 asciilifeform was transparently
12:42 mircea_popescu yeah, i kinda got the same "oh, we're cluless, aren't we cute tho".
12:42 mircea_popescu anyway, it's a pity san fernando valley was all morons in the 90s. could have bought disney, turn it into slut educational tool.
12:43 mircea_popescu nothing but naked 9yo princesses aspiring to porn valley.
12:44 asciilifeform !!up SeanRiddle
12:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's such a fucking perfect illustration.
12:44 asciilifeform hm deedbot jammed or wat
12:44 mircea_popescu for whatever, early xtianity comprehending "paganism", italian cinquecento "rescuing classical antiquity", what have you.
12:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's the alleged ic rev d00d
12:44 mircea_popescu who ?!
12:45 asciilifeform amberglint's fella
12:45 mircea_popescu trinque hey! no deedbot ?!
12:45 mircea_popescu o, really ?!
12:45 asciilifeform
12:45 a111 Logged on 2018-11-28 15:44 asciilifeform: amberglint: that's the basic litmus test. if comes, gets in wot, then ~possibly~ serious
12:45 mircea_popescu hm. i wonder if we can do ye olde cartoon thing i couldn't get done before.
12:46 asciilifeform which
12:47 trinque thanks mircea_popescu
12:47 asciilifeform !!up SeanRiddle
12:47 deedbot SeanRiddle voiced for 30 minutes.
12:47 trinque asciilifeform: didn't you say you had spotted a bug?
12:47 asciilifeform trinque: i can't speak for deedbot, but the ircbot code i put pehbot on doesn't autoreconnect at all
12:48 mircea_popescu i kept trying to get a comic going, oglaf chick wouldn't do it, that midnight_on_mars dood with the too fucktarded to communicate...
12:48 asciilifeform ( dunno if 'bug' or simply no one yet made variant which knows how )
12:48 SeanRiddle I can decap it and get pics, and if it's simple enough I can remove the top metal layer and get more pics, but someone will need to vectorize it to RE it
12:48 mircea_popescu << terrible fucking shit, could greatly benefit from you know... SOME IDEAS.
12:48 trinque deedbot's based upon that, usually reconnects, but it is looking like there's a case where it does not.
12:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: << some are notbad
12:48 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle haha was this you all along ?
12:48 mircea_popescu !!key SeanRiddle
12:48 deedbot
12:49 mircea_popescu !!rate SeanRiddle 1
12:49 deedbot Get your OTP:
12:49 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle you'll be able to self-voice once this expires. also, what do you use to peel layers ?
12:50 SeanRiddle I'm using Whink to remove the passivation layer and top metal layer.
12:50 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: also what res photo can you take ?
12:51 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: i tried to look at the high res samples on your www, but found only
12:51 a111 Logged on 2018-11-28 15:50 asciilifeform: << suggests that this is the case, the link to 'Here's a 17436x15128 pixel version (HD View on another server)' goes to some microshit site that doesn't actually load for me
12:51 mircea_popescu hahaha rust remover ?!
12:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun expect he has an ion accelerator, no
12:52 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle is it a case you have high resolution photos and lack hosting for them ?
12:52 SeanRiddle has links to where I uploaded big pics to wikimedia
12:53 SeanRiddle Yep, Whink's an easy way to get weak HFl
12:54 SeanRiddle A lot of the pics on wikimedia are 40Kx40K pixels
12:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'd have thought people just use royal water / hcl / something.
12:55 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle what's your medium planning look like ? you wanna do more comicwork ? you wanna expand on your decapping ? what do you do for a living anyway ?
12:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun think he's the comic d00d
12:56 asciilifeform thread crosstalk
12:56 SeanRiddle Just a programmer - no comic stuff. Decapping is just a weekend hobby.
12:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform didn't you say amberglint's fellow is the decapper / comic dude ?
12:57 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle sorry lol, seems i got confused. sooo what do you program ?
12:58 SeanRiddle Some embedded stuff for oilfield equipment, some apps for decision analysis
12:58 asciilifeform >> << subj
12:59 mircea_popescu !!rate SeanRiddle 1 decap hobbist
12:59 deedbot Get your OTP:
13:00 SeanRiddle So the die's upside down, huh?
13:01 mircea_popescu what do you do if there's multiple layers anyway ?
13:02 SeanRiddle I leave it for someone with better equipment. I don't have any lapping equipment.
13:02 mircea_popescu aha.
13:04 asciilifeform
13:05 asciilifeform loox like top is au-plated iron thermal lid, bottom -- ceramic.
13:05 mircea_popescu how many layers is it ? known even ?
13:06 asciilifeform unknown
13:06 asciilifeform nor known what exactly size of die, beyond the obv max visible in the photo
13:06 asciilifeform ( suggests that it's 2cm^2 )
13:07 mircea_popescu kinda fucking hard to peel off an unknown layer count.
13:08 asciilifeform my notes say that it is either '2um cmos' by vlsi co., or '1um cmos' (hp co) if later edition (not known which one we have)
13:10 asciilifeform iirc this means up to 9 layers.
13:10 asciilifeform moar typically 5.
13:11 mircea_popescu so the chip is what, 4mm or so tall ?
13:11 asciilifeform the die ? i dun think even today there is die whole 4mm tall
13:11 asciilifeform more like 1.
13:11 mircea_popescu still, 100 or so um per layer, should be doable without necessarily ion gun
13:12 asciilifeform it's approx same item as 386, chemically
13:12 mircea_popescu right.
13:15 mircea_popescu << lmao
13:15 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 11:31 deedbot: << ave1 - , !
13:15 mircea_popescu i esp like the - , ! sendoff
13:17 mircea_popescu стихи << does english even have "stih" ? certainly ro word, and afaik they have "diptych" and such later greek derivatives...
13:18 asciilifeform ( warning: pdfturd/scan ) has the only known die shot
13:18 mircea_popescu apparently not.
13:18 asciilifeform may be possible to infer exact metrage from it
13:19 asciilifeform ^ is where i got also only known spec re microcode, '1200 word x 180bit rom'
13:20 asciilifeform 390`000 transistor.
13:21 asciilifeform item was 1 of the 1st ( if not ~the~ first ) machine-layout'd ic's, so it won't be as simple to re as the early 80s cpus
13:22 asciilifeform ( prior to these, masks were drawn 'by hand', on room-sized film, with actual pieces of electrician's tape )
13:23 amberglint Hello everyone
13:23 amberglint I found a couple more bits about the Ivory
13:23 asciilifeform oh hey the die size
13:23 asciilifeform claims '12.6 x 12.3 mm'
13:24 asciilifeform and yes photo matches the one given by baker, to the limit of naked eye.
13:25 asciilifeform ty amberglint
13:25 amberglint it's from Howard Shrobe's "Exploring Artificial Intelligence. Survey Talks from the National Conferences on Artificial Intelligence"
13:26 asciilifeform perma-mirrored at , ty
13:26 amberglint I can share the whole pdf if you want
13:26 asciilifeform plz
13:27 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle you say !!up to deedbot in a pm.
13:28 asciilifeform iirc phf ( and apparently nobody else ) has the actual pinout, but iirc it is on a tape or the like and he hasn't posted yet
13:28 amberglint here's the pdf:
13:28 asciilifeform ty
13:29 amberglint it says "CMOS - 2 Level metal", does that mean two layers?
13:29 mircea_popescu all those delicious %20s, the unerring sign of computer iliteracy.
13:29 mircea_popescu amberglint can't fucking fit in 2 layers at 1.x sqcm
13:29 asciilifeform << mirrored nao.
13:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: winblowz filenames ftw.
13:30 mircea_popescu 2 level metal is trade name, a sort of metalization process
13:30 amberglint ah
13:30 asciilifeform simply means there's 2 metal layer ( conductors ) .
13:30 asciilifeform along with buncha else.
13:31 mircea_popescu << notbad likbez.
13:31 asciilifeform 'It is of tiie same complexity as an Intel 80386 or a Motorola 68030. Figure 21 is a photomicrograph of the chip (chip people always seem to need to show their chip pictures). The Ivory chip is more or less divided into three horizontal slices; the top is the datapath and stack cache, the middle is the control system, and the bottom is the memory interface. In the middle of the control system is a very large microstore, again compara
13:31 asciilifeform ble to what you'd see in a 80386 or a 68020 class machine.'
13:34 asciilifeform 'Figure 24 show some statistics about Ivory. The size of the chip was about a centimeter-and-a-half on a side in the earliest version which was done using 2-micron CMOS technology. The first commercial version will be done in a 1.6 micron process and will be about a centimeter on a side, as is the TI chip. This makes it a very large, (but not impossibly large), chip to fabricate. There are about 255,000 actual transistors on the die.
13:34 asciilifeform However, the common way of measuring chip complexity is to count the number of transistor sites; this measures the size of the internal ROMs better. Using that count, this is one of the largest chip ever done, containing nearly 400,000 transistor sites. The chip was designed very quickly (it took about 9 months from the freezing of the architecture to the first prototype chip, using a team of only 4 designers).'
13:37 mircea_popescu remember back when they had folks who went to school ? "elite" husband-and-wife team could bake a great z80 game over a summer, and so on.
13:37 amberglint asciilifeform: I also have an article about NS somewhere, don't know if you have it yet
13:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall that these folx had automation that actually worked.
13:37 asciilifeform amberglint: let's have it, for completeness, if you can dig up.
13:38 mircea_popescu and wives that actually worked and banks that actually worked and suppliers and everything else that actually worked ; and very little of the soviet
13:38 a111 Logged on 2015-06-25 07:05 mircea_popescu: "Our Solutions Leadership About Us Careers News Contact" who the fuck thought this is how you do it ? it's almost like the soviet butcher, "we're the advertising shop, we don't have publishers. fish is what they don't have in the shop down the street"
13:38 mircea_popescu and people envied them for it and even considered defecting to it, and so on.
13:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: indeed, tho quite ironically bolix itself was quite analogous to a su research town
13:39 amberglint found it, "CAD Programming in an Object Oriented Programming Environment" by J. Cherry, going to upload it now
13:39 asciilifeform << see also
13:39 a111 Logged on 2018-01-17 20:47 asciilifeform: to be fair the company was not really a honest commercial co, moar like one of those unofficial usg research institutes, they proliferated under reagan and died with him
13:39 mircea_popescu amberglint how about you mp-wp yourself ?
13:40 amberglint mircea_popescu: had it on my mind lately, probably going to do it at some point soon
13:40 mircea_popescu it'd certainly saving on all this "here's rando domain i put stuff on"
13:40 asciilifeform amberglint: there's an unsold rk ( ) machine at pizarro, waiting for somebody's sweet bl0g
13:41 asciilifeform diana_coman presently uses, and BingoBoingo , and a few other folx, worx great
13:41 mircea_popescu wasn't there also a shared setup ?
13:41 asciilifeform there is !
13:41 asciilifeform e.g. hanbot uses
13:41 asciilifeform also worx
13:42 asciilifeform for photo-heavy / warez etc www, i'd recommend the rk
13:42 mircea_popescu i can see it.
13:43 amberglint asciilifeform: I'll consider it, thank you for the offer
13:43 amberglint here's the pdf:
13:43 amberglint page 265
13:43 asciilifeform amberglint: they're pretty sweet 4core arm64 boxen; i assembled and engentoo'd with own hand
13:44 asciilifeform ty amberglint
13:44 mircea_popescu << item looks rather like 1980s era soviet collegiate campus.
13:44 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 15:42 BingoBoingo: Local Prison architecture
13:44 asciilifeform mirrored.
13:44 amberglint I wish I could locate the actual docs for NS
13:45 asciilifeform amberglint: afaik nobody's found'em yet
13:45 mircea_popescu amberglint best bet prolly hanging about when the dood what's his name croaks and buying the debris in his house.
13:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: dks ? made pretty convincing case that they aint at his house ( but whoknows )
13:46 asciilifeform ( he condescended to give asciilifeform a keyboard pinout, and had to 'go to warehouse' to get )
13:46 mircea_popescu eh, the red stapler guy, shit's always at his house. periodically they find a "traitor" fo this kind, had 9000 "secret" hard drives in basement.
13:46 mircea_popescu i'm sure it's on moldy papers.
13:47 asciilifeform it is on moldy papers. and iirc phf even has been to where.
13:47 asciilifeform ( moldy tapes also )
13:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: house, was fulla iron, old moldy cards, hdds, consoles. dks was/is a repairman, afaik mechanical engineer orig by trade .
13:48 asciilifeform had 0 to do with design.
13:49 mircea_popescu i'm sure, nor does this change much really.
13:50 asciilifeform nfi
13:50 asciilifeform could have the crown jewels, or not, nobodyknows.
13:50 BingoBoingo Updated
13:51 amberglint Tom Knight still has some schematics for AI Lab's modified PDP-10 and his graphical terminal
13:51 amberglint he shared them with people who are working on PDP-10 emulation
13:51 asciilifeform amberglint: pdp10 is approx as interesting as nintendo tho
13:51 amberglint I know, just interesting that he keeps some old shit
13:51 mircea_popescu <<< aaaahahahaah omfg holy shit this beats all.
13:51 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 16:25 deedbot: << Qntra - Argentina Buys US Soy
13:52 mircea_popescu so what do they DO!!!! anymore!
13:56 BingoBoingo Argentina claims to be exporting their whole soy crop to china. I guess they are trying to live off of whatever percent difference minus transport.
13:57 BingoBoingo But yes, somehow they can afford reactor + crew from russia
~ 15 minutes ~
14:12 Mocky "Still, a total of 6-7 transactions had been sent to the addresses by time of writing, some with intriguing transaction details. For instance, this transaction has an embedded message:
14:12 Mocky The U.S. government cannot ban Bitcoin addresses"
14:13 Mocky "The other address has one notable transaction which is sent from 1JEWSxAgGhSFuNPHUAr13zftNLjYt5wZaS and 1MoSSaDDSStrRo53YjPaGcXiABAXfYuvEL. A dust transaction, it was confirmed in block 551895."
14:14 asciilifeform Mocky: i dun see where 'embedded' tho
14:14 Mocky I won't get a chance to look at this until signed up with new daily bread overlord
14:14 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 17:27 mircea_popescu: btw Mocky -- teh bot dies through the following : often it makes so much stuff in one click it overwhelms its weight carrying capacity. any chance you can implement a fragmenter-if-overweight ? it's often enough to be a pain in the ass by now.
14:16 Mocky asciilifeform, listed as note in
14:16 asciilifeform yes, but ~where in the tx~ does the text live
14:16 Mocky ah, dunno
14:16 asciilifeform or is this 1 of those heathen 'blockchain info' 'append note to your tx' promisetronic thingies
14:23 amberglint asciilifeform: I'll try to ask Howard Shrobe about the layers, maybe he still remembers if he deigns to answer
14:23 asciilifeform amberglint: he's 1 of the folx i've tried writing to, in past yrs, perhaps you'll have better luck than i
14:23 asciilifeform always worth a shot
14:24 asciilifeform iirc he went into medicine after bolix folded
14:25 asciilifeform ( somewhere on my hdd, there's a photo of shrobe walking across a stage holding up a 3620 , the kind in , in his hands, 'looksy, first 'portable' bolix' )
14:26 amberglint from what I know, he's back at MIT
14:26 amberglint CSAIL
14:26 asciilifeform ah
14:26 amberglint even giving interviews
14:28 asciilifeform dun appear to be lispm-related, sadly
14:28 asciilifeform ( not esp surprising tho )
14:29 asciilifeform current mit is a kind of nursing home, as i gather
14:30 asciilifeform elderly academics who can barely hold up cup of tea, and buncha quasi-literate young folx ( see infamous ) to wait on'em
14:30 a111 Logged on 2013-12-01 15:21 ozbot: MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube
14:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's a small space in a tx to add some text.
14:30 mircea_popescu your own "blockchain telegraphy" and a buncha "child porn in blockchain" antiqua are there
14:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there's several ways to 'add text' , aha ,
14:30 asciilifeform was curious which one was used
14:30 asciilifeform ( it wasn't obv from the link )
14:30 asciilifeform it's easier if you dun intend to recirculate the coinz.
14:31 asciilifeform ( then can encode txt as dest addrs )
14:31 mircea_popescu (by the way, since we're doing usg pretense & impotence : the bitcoin blockchain DOES factually contain child porn. exactly 0 anyone can do about this, which is why exactly 0 mention of this in pravda & co. much like exactly 0 mention on #metoo of all the "evil white men of patriarchy" that laughed @metootard all the way to the brothel.)
14:31 asciilifeform hey didn't sumbody stuff in 'goldbug' virus from 1993 , and thereby trigger microshit's av
14:31 asciilifeform i vaguely recall this gag
14:32 mircea_popescu something like that, yeh.
14:32 asciilifeform but sure can stuff in whatever bytes, iirc addr decoder barfing dun invalidate a tx , classically
14:33 asciilifeform costs whatever the miner fee is, plus epsilon for payload ( most of the current chinese won't mine a 0-summing tx iirc )
14:34 * asciilifeform has personally used this mechanism for remote control of... autonomous machinery
14:35 asciilifeform in earlier days there were also folx stuffing strings into block hdrs, but dunno if this is still in fashion, and at any rate no longer doable if you aint chinese, to 1st approx
14:45 asciilifeform >> notbad, e.g. , but still can't see individual transistors there, unless i'm missing sumthing
14:45 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 17:52 SeanRiddle: has links to where I uploaded big pics to wikimedia
14:46 asciilifeform ( also seems to have dirt, which is problem, cuz 1 speck of shit can cover several 100 transistor at this density -- not even speaking of moar recent micronages )
14:47 mircea_popescu << alright.
14:47 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 19:14 Mocky: I won't get a chance to look at this until signed up with new daily bread overlord
14:47 asciilifeform it's a good try, but i dunno that this is usable for re.
14:47 mircea_popescu speaking of which, i guess, if there's any hero waiting in the wings to cut teeth on some code... it's not THAT intricate.
14:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: was this the thing ?
14:51 asciilifeform iirc i posted my solver, but for somereason cannot find in log, so will repost,
14:52 asciilifeform wb SeanRiddle
14:52 SeanRiddle That's the lo-res pic. Wikimedia sometimes chokes on my big pics, and I have to upload smaller ones. Go down to the File History and there's a link to a 43Kx45K pixel pic.
14:53 * asciilifeform looks
14:53 asciilifeform ~600MB notbad
14:53 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: what sorta camera didja use ?
14:55 * asciilifeform tries to find sumthing that'll display that thing without choking
14:55 SeanRiddle It's a Canon EOS 5D
14:56 asciilifeform i had that thing, but it certainly didn't take 43k x 43k photos. didja stitch'em ?
14:58 SeanRiddle Yeah, that was something like 39x60 pics stitched
14:58 asciilifeform notbad
14:59 * asciilifeform sadly does not yet have with what to actually look at the photo
14:59 asciilifeform 'gimp' chokes.
15:00 asciilifeform why's it a jpg anyway, wouldn't this introduce artifacts ?
15:00 asciilifeform ( what it also does, is prevent from loading the pic in sections, which is annoying )
15:01 amberglint asciilifeform: can you cut the picture back with something like imagemagick?
15:01 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: is this the orig form of the item ? with dust & all ?
15:02 SeanRiddle I'm taking jpgs with the camera and then stitching those with fiji. It looks as good to me as using RAW, but a lot easier.
15:02 asciilifeform it is my understanding that any dust at all is a problem for this job
15:02 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: were you ever able to actually re a circuit from your photos ?
15:03 SeanRiddle I haven't but
15:03 SeanRiddle and
15:04 asciilifeform that 6502, is a 8 micron ic, almost half century old nao
15:05 asciilifeform ( and there are at least a dozen micrographs available )
15:05 asciilifeform ever succeeded with a 1um ?
15:05 SeanRiddle That one was a blowtorch decap, so some of the dirt is residue from the plastic encapsulation. I can clean that with HN03.
15:05 asciilifeform or hm, this one's about a 'Amstrad 40010'
15:06 SeanRiddle I have not.
15:06 asciilifeform blowtorch decap?!
15:07 SeanRiddle
15:07 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: just so you're aware of the orig subj -- the ic we were looking to see decapped is worth mebbe 10,000 $ ea. ( and at that, i have 0 guarantee of being able to find more . ever. ) i have a grand total of 2.
15:07 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: the link 404's
15:09 SeanRiddle Heh - I was not told the value! Why not use a pro decapper? But you wouldn't torch that package.
15:09 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: pro decapper + microscopist runs about 30k. so that's on hold pending asciilifeform actually having 30k to use on proj.
15:10 asciilifeform if i had 5 or 6 of the 'ivories' i would happily give 1 to SeanRiddle , ftr. but currently must pass.
15:11 SeanRiddle Yeah, I'd be too nervous anyway!
15:11 asciilifeform ( it aint even matter of cost; simply we're dealing with an almost-extinct animal. there's maybe a few dozen of these left in the wild, optimistically )
15:12 amberglint twenty of them were recently scrapped for gold...
15:12 mircea_popescu re argentine lulz, it seems there's an unadvertised trade war going on, in the limited sense that the us produces some soy the chinese deem too shitty to buy. better living through chemistry results.
15:12 SeanRiddle Looking at the package, I'm guessing the protrusion on the bottom would pop off, revealing the top of the die.
15:12 asciilifeform amberglint: indeed, link is in the log
15:12 asciilifeform SeanRiddle: shrobe's photo suggests that die top is on top of package
15:13 asciilifeform but currently hard to be certain
15:13 SeanRiddle I can see traces on the pin side, making me think that the die bonds to them and the heatsink on top is the bottom of the die.
15:13 asciilifeform possible
15:14 asciilifeform i was gonna have the thing xrayed, to learn the truth, but this also not done yet.
15:14 mircea_popescu you know, i think he actually has a point ?
15:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he does : object dun look removable, but rather like it was inserted from other end
15:15 mircea_popescu right.
15:15 mircea_popescu << nah, this is re
15:15 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was this the thing ?
15:15 asciilifeform aa ok
15:16 mircea_popescu << wouldn't it be easier to just present them separate ? not like people can't cat at home.
15:16 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 19:58 SeanRiddle: Yeah, that was something like 39x60 pics stitched
15:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: stiching is quite cpu/ram-heavy
15:16 asciilifeform ( recall, ~no room for error )
15:17 mircea_popescu then you gotta find
15:17 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 19:55 asciilifeform tries to find sumthing that'll display that thing without choking
15:17 asciilifeform in pro shops, they use microscope with stepper motor
15:17 mircea_popescu (which gimp does ok, but then again needs the ram)
15:17 asciilifeform ( sorta like how traditional flatbed scanner worx )
15:18 mircea_popescu i dunno, maybe i'm just not grasping something fundamental. but it seems to me that for reversing work, 2400 pics with margins beats a 600mb monstrosity.
15:18 mircea_popescu people only look in one spot at a time anyway
15:18 asciilifeform really this thing oughta be saved for proper SEM . but currently notenuff dough for this pleasure.
15:18 mircea_popescu is the idea to do machined reversing ?
15:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's always machined, it's more or less impossible otherwise.
15:18 asciilifeform a kind of specialized ocr.
15:18 mircea_popescu in my mind people just sat with a patient needle and marked down 300k locations.
15:19 asciilifeform ( esp. considering that the transistors were placed by machine to begin with, so they aint in any human-comprehensible order like they are on z80 or 6502 etc )
15:19 mircea_popescu ah
15:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they do sit with needle. but only ~after~, to correct obvious oopses in ocr.
15:19 asciilifeform otherwise 1000 manyears.
15:19 mircea_popescu how do you know when they're done ?
15:19 mircea_popescu "obvious" open ended enough.
15:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: same way you know when is done.
15:20 a111 Logged on 2018-07-16 15:50 a111: Logged on 2018-06-25 21:45 asciilifeform: (1) (2) (3) (4)
15:20 mircea_popescu ie "it works" ?
15:20 asciilifeform ( i.e. you don't, not till you actually bake a working and satisfying cloned circuit )
15:20 asciilifeform correct.
15:20 mircea_popescu but i mean... you don't even have the spec against which to check this "works" ?
15:21 asciilifeform all that presently exists in the wild is 1) small number of actual 'ivory' machines/cards, where could put cloned ic 2) the software/os stack
15:21 mircea_popescu maybe you end up with bugbolix machine, accurate to the collection of userland software bugs.
15:21 mircea_popescu (this so neatly mirrors ye trb/prb discussions it bleeds)
15:21 asciilifeform can only rule this out once 'fit in head' yes
15:21 asciilifeform exactly like trb.
15:21 asciilifeform there is no escape from this.
15:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and for the puyrpose of fit in head, do you agree 2.4k pics with margins better than 600mb flatpile ?
15:21 asciilifeform fwiw in su they cloned ic's photographically, without any attempt to actually grasp the contents
15:22 mircea_popescu aha.
15:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope, gotta preprocess the thing to get a draft netlist (i.e. what's connected to what) and only then can walk the photos to search for barfolade
15:22 mircea_popescu i hereby dub one possible end result of this process "the bugbolix plague".
15:22 asciilifeform e.g. 'hey why is power connected to ground, must be a speck of skin in pic'
15:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw folx did clone e.g. i386. it can be done.
15:23 asciilifeform my 'cyrix' worked a+++.
15:23 mircea_popescu i agree it can. i also think it can result in some pretty lulzy "electrolytes that plants need".
15:23 asciilifeform if done sov-style -- can.
15:24 asciilifeform as it is, micrography only good as 'part of balanced diet' along with intel and the like.
15:24 a111 Logged on 2018-11-29 19:24 asciilifeform: on other front, phf : on occasion of the most recent bolix thread , i went and looked again at the artifact ; it is interesting that they provided 128 iron types, incl. bignum, but not a 'bignum of fixed N words'. i guess in '80s ~nobody was thinking of crypto at all. ( and i was prolly unduly pessimistic to the orig finder of $item, it is prolly 95% of what's needed for cycle-accurate clone.
15:24 mircea_popescu you know, if we had working svg thius would be such an eminent application for a svg scroll-through-er.
15:24 asciilifeform verily.
15:24 mircea_popescu interlinked everythyings, adnotate-able...
15:24 asciilifeform would ideally be sumthing that doesn't blow 100 bytes on erry bit of the image like that htmlistic war crime does.
15:24 mircea_popescu the more we tal;k about this, the more it's evident what's lacking isn't MERELY x or y. we're lacking a buncha pieces here.
15:24 mircea_popescu rather productive discussion.
15:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform is there any difference between the netlist and a binary tree of transistors ?
15:30 mircea_popescu or w/e, the list of binary trees, admitting somehow there's unconnected islands
15:30 asciilifeform i was about to answe this:
15:30 asciilifeform the reason why the scheme is possible to do at all, is that the transistor is not the fundamental semantic unit of the device
15:30 asciilifeform what one does, is to try to determine the repeating functional blocks ( adders, shifters, srams, etc )
15:31 asciilifeform rather than 'raw netlist of transistor'
15:31 mircea_popescu if you were to attempt to do ~more~ machined reversing than merely "build me netlist", wouldn't the correct approach be to a) build binary tree of transistors and b) sick tree massager on it ?
15:31 asciilifeform and ~then~ ( and this is what we have, but su reversers did not ) you load the thing into a (fairly inexpensive) fpga and try functional tests.
15:31 mircea_popescu ie, while transistor is not natural language semantic unit, isn't it machine language semantic unit ?
15:32 mircea_popescu (the "tree massager" in question being another major moving part we lack, obviously.)
15:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is certainly physically possible to do it that way, but the recognition is at best O(N^2) so one'd need some rather substantial irons; and also correspondingly moar sensitive to specks of dust in photo
15:32 mircea_popescu yes -- nevertheless, it'd actually make fucking sense, as opposed to prayer-driven methodology.
15:33 asciilifeform ideally you find the repeating patterns of transistorage and go straight to functional units ( granted this is only practical for bolix, 486, and newer, where there actually ~exist~ these units, as opposed to hand-optimized arbitrary transistorage )
15:33 mircea_popescu right ?
15:33 mircea_popescu i bet you what you want you'll find hand massage in bolix.
15:33 deedbot << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 11/16/2018
15:33 mircea_popescu a horse that goes 90% of the way to paris still can't make any part of stagecoach to paris.
15:33 asciilifeform supposedly it was 100% machine-genned (possibly the 1st such ic)
15:33 asciilifeform hence the 'ns' threads
15:33 mircea_popescu i do not believe.
15:34 asciilifeform i dun find it esp. difficult to swallow, ~100% of iron since 1990 or so was made this way.
15:34 asciilifeform naturally designer gave the machine hints as to where to put what
15:34 asciilifeform just like i do when laying out PCB for e.g. FG
15:34 mircea_popescu i will take my chances on these four deuces. "engineers", i know what this means.
15:35 asciilifeform at any rate the q is answerable. (~if~ we had with what to look inside)
15:35 mircea_popescu true enough.
15:35 asciilifeform once you have pics, can massage 9000 ways to heaven. but not prior.
15:35 mircea_popescu problem being that massage will prolly inform future pic taking. but anyway.
15:36 mircea_popescu we defo need a tree massager. this problem will reccur.
15:38 asciilifeform sorta why one generally wants to capture 9000x moar detail than 'strictly needed'
15:38 asciilifeform ( hence SEM vs opticals etc )
15:38 * asciilifeform brb,t-time
15:41 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle incidentally, you ever saw discussion ?
15:41 a111 Logged on 2018-11-28 19:28 mircea_popescu: you put in a violet source, take a pic. next you put in a green source, take a pic. next, yellow and red.
15:44 SeanRiddle I haven't. Fiji can do focus stacking, but I haven't tried that yet. I've got an XY table and I rigged a stepper to the focus knob, so I could take n pics at different focus for each tile.
~ 24 minutes ~
16:08 mircea_popescu the idea being that there's an absolute limit to optical microscopy due to quantum phenomena (hence the heisenberg reference, his original work as critiqued by bohr dealt exactly with this). however, these limits also depend on frequency, and from comparing measurements in different lights one can get some error correction.
16:09 mircea_popescu but the issue isn't focus ; it simply is the frequency of the photons involved.
16:22 mircea_popescu re : what one ends up doing is curl -k '!Oki_m6283_metal.jpg/114px-Oki_m6283_metal.jpg' > sean.jpg (note the quotes because wikipedia is made by pedos who are also retarded, and includes bashes and shit).
16:22 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 19:52 SeanRiddle: That's the lo-res pic. Wikimedia sometimes chokes on my big pics, and I have to upload smaller ones. Go down to the File History and there's a link to a 43Kx45K pixel pic.
16:22 mircea_popescu SeanRiddle why the hell would you use this batshit insane process. what's wrong with linking things like sane people, off your own domain and all ?
16:25 mircea_popescu meanwhile in retro news,
16:26 SeanRiddle When I starting posting pics I was hosting my domain at home and the big pics would kill my access. blogspot limits the max size, so I uploaded to wikimedia. Now I'm using a real web host, so I guess I could put everything there.
16:27 mircea_popescu for srs. like a respectable gent.
16:27 mircea_popescu ideally both the pre-stitch and the post-stitch, and absolutely do not use jpg.
16:28 mircea_popescu it may look the same to you, and to anyone else. but if it flipped over a pixel somewhere you're looking at a potential man-year to find where the fuck.
16:29 mircea_popescu the problem with the standard is that one can take relatively few chances.
16:29 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 20:20 mircea_popescu: ie "it works" ?
16:36 mircea_popescu (this is not strictly about jpg. ~any~ image compressing/processing/fucking with the sensor data is dubious. even using such a thing as the camera's "soft" focus (as opposed to the lens-driven hard focus, some handhelds offer this internal processor-driven cvasi-focus) is a bad idea for this task. exact discussion of "whitening" and other such pattern-inserting nonsense from crypto)
16:41 asciilifeform << proper slr, not soapbox , so loox on that front
16:41 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 19:55 SeanRiddle: It's a Canon EOS 5D
16:41 asciilifeform ( i'm assuming, with microscope barrel mount ? )
16:42 asciilifeform when using mounted slr, focus is solely in the microscope's optics
16:43 * asciilifeform had, yrs ago, access to this setup, but sadly cannot afford to re-create it in torture room, was spiffy 'zeiss' thing
16:43 SeanRiddle Yes; Olympus photomicro adapter
16:43 asciilifeform neato
16:44 asciilifeform if i had the floor space, would just pick up surplus SEM, it costs approx same as ~good~ optic funnily enuff
16:44 asciilifeform ( 5-10 k u.s. $ )
16:45 asciilifeform the surplus units want 10 or so square metres tho, of decent climate-controlled floor.
16:45 asciilifeform plus (typically) 3phase.
16:46 * asciilifeform reminisces re lulzthread
16:46 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 21:40 mircea_popescu: < kanzure> jrayhawk_: would you be willing to host a microscope? responsibilities would include keeping it plugged in and internet connected. also there would be an irc bot that controls where it looks. you'd also be pestered to load samples periodically. << did this 2014 idea ever get implemented ?
16:50 asciilifeform from there , << lul for ave1's lang study
16:50 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 22:19 asciilifeform: phf: 'Собрал царь зверей всех животных в лесу на поляне и говорит: - Cегодня мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот маленький. Правильно ежик? - Даааааа-Даааааа! - сказал ежик. - А завтра мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот большой. Правильно бегемот? -
16:50 mircea_popescu heh.
16:59 mircea_popescu speaking of which, hey ave1 , can has approved comment!!1
17:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you odn't like uruguay for the purpose ?
~ 24 minutes ~
17:24 asciilifeform i'd like uruguay, or antarctica, or just about anywhere.
17:24 asciilifeform hard part is obv. not 'where to put SEM' lol.
17:25 asciilifeform ( nor 'where plug in SEM'. it's 'where plug in asciilifeform' )
17:25 mircea_popescu and we're all awaiting with bated breath you settling on something.
17:26 asciilifeform lol mircea_popescu phrases it almost as if asciilifeform were buridaning in front of a set table
17:26 asciilifeform 'pick sumthing! all fresh!'
17:31 asciilifeform prolly oughta add that surplus SEM in particular ( and similar irons ) 1) generally live in usa 2) dun exactly fit in smuggle-trunk under old shirts
17:32 asciilifeform prolly wrong approach overall, at that, really oughta find a ave1 or spyked fella with keys to adult lab somewhere.
17:33 asciilifeform sorta how asciilifeform had 'the keys' in 2010 and had all the ducks lined up to run schwartz eotvos, and would have at least achieved some lulz if uncle al had not chickened
17:34 asciilifeform had all the requisite backroom deals & all, but not the fist-sized benzyl xtal, so no dice.
17:35 asciilifeform !#s calorimeter
17:35 a111 8 results for "calorimeter",
17:35 asciilifeform ^ somewhere in the old thrds.
17:37 asciilifeform i still can't fucking believe that d00d. 'my experiment requires 3 litres of virgin tears' 'hey al, i took 300 virgins and ran then rom-coms until they cried 3L, here it is in a mason jar' 'but! reasons!'
17:38 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> prolly oughta add that surplus SEM in particular ( and similar irons ) 1) generally live in usa 2) dun exactly fit in smuggle-trunk under old shirts << If you can produce an invoice I can recieve it as a prepackaged good
17:38 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: we're talkin' half a railcar
17:38 BingoBoingo Well, fill the other half of the container with rockchip plants
17:38 asciilifeform i dun think they'd swallow a 'this is worth 500, rly, srsly' 'receipt' for it.
17:39 BingoBoingo worth ~500 USD/ton
17:39 asciilifeform and i aint got 30% of the 400k they'd think it costs.
17:39 BingoBoingo It's for refurbishing
17:39 asciilifeform let's make a +ev pizarro 1st, lol
17:39 asciilifeform before BingoBoingo starts to picture where he'd park a 10 m^2 SEM
17:40 asciilifeform ( even supposing i devise a means of teleporting one to BingoBoingostan )
17:40 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> ( even supposing i devise a means of teleporting one to BingoBoingostan ) << Slow boat with your workshop
17:41 asciilifeform for some reason i immediately picture that story where 'abrams' tank was smuggled to su in diplo-crates, piecemeal
17:42 BingoBoingo Well, Assange taught us Ecuador can't diplo-crate
17:42 asciilifeform can't, won't, i've nfi
17:42 asciilifeform i have difficulty picture how it couldn't, if wanted.
17:42 asciilifeform they like the lolcat exactly where he is, i suspect.
17:43 BingoBoingo Well, you know how Latino elections swing bigger
17:44 asciilifeform afaik ec is a miamistan exactly like the others
17:45 BingoBoingo Sure, but they swing between "Make Miami in Ecuador" and "Make Ecuador Miami Again"
17:45 asciilifeform iirc #2 won election in argentina, made 0 diff except aggravated lulz
17:45 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 16:25 deedbot: << Qntra - Argentina Buys US Soy
17:46 BingoBoingo If you gotta feed the Argentards soy, why not feed them crap while China's buying the good stuff
17:47 asciilifeform just picture, if they'd kept the whore , the argentards might finally have keeled over and mircea_popescu would possibly be done by now bulldozing the ruins and terraforming like mars
17:47 BingoBoingo They haven't quite locked her up yet
17:47 asciilifeform ( as i understand , it's a++ real estate, supposing you were to redditbag all of the bipedals )
17:52 BingoBoingo Not all of them. Just the moms and older along with the steers
17:52 asciilifeform i'ma leave this one to the experts.
17:53 BingoBoingo Anyways, if you are setting down something heavy for a while Uruguay's got great bedrock
17:54 asciilifeform eh it aint a holography rig, dun need 4 tonnes of ballast
17:54 asciilifeform does need 3phase mains and reasonably room-temp / dehumidified air tho ( vacuum pump )
17:55 asciilifeform but even more than this, needs economic underpin for existence
17:55 asciilifeform i dun have a moolah empire that could run one as public service.
17:56 asciilifeform it's rather like a 'caterpillar'. how many folx do you know who have own 'caterpillar' and dun work it erry day for daily bread.
17:57 asciilifeform !#s from:mircea_popescu coffee grinder
17:57 a111 11 results for "from:mircea_popescu coffee grinder",
17:57 asciilifeform << see also
17:57 a111 Logged on 2017-06-17 23:13 mircea_popescu: but if i buy coffee grinder for factory, it is to work at all times, and girls will change their schedule to keep it going, not it to accomodate them.
17:57 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> it's rather like a 'caterpillar'. how many folx do you know who have own 'caterpillar' and dun work it erry day for daily bread. << At least 3 come to mind
17:58 asciilifeform lol
17:58 asciilifeform why would they do this
17:58 BingoBoingo Farming
17:58 asciilifeform ditch-digging hobby ??
17:58 asciilifeform ah so they ~do~ work it then
17:58 BingoBoingo No where near every day
17:59 asciilifeform yes but presumably often enuff to not rent
18:01 BingoBoingo That part's harder to discern. Depends on how often the other tractors sink into the muck
18:02 BingoBoingo Or how often the road needs snow plowed
18:03 BingoBoingo Having a rebuilt caterpillar is usually a result of it being inconvenient to rent when it brings the most convenience
18:04 asciilifeform rright, sorta how asciilifeform ended up with various (smaller) irons
18:05 asciilifeform ( it ~is~ possible to rent e.g. oscilloscopes. but by the time you do it, you'll forget why you even wanted )
18:05 asciilifeform it'd be like renting knife and fork to eat dinner
18:06 asciilifeform i kinda suspect that if there's a pro microscopist reading these threads, he's busting his gut laughing just like surgeon may have laughed at the thread
18:06 a111 Logged on 2017-11-16 18:07 mircea_popescu: you can't do self-amputation.
18:06 asciilifeform 'omfg he wants SEM for 1 shot'
18:07 BingoBoingo Well, for one shot, then another...
18:07 asciilifeform prolly i oughta point out that a '90s surplus SEM won't do jack against 2000s-era ics
18:07 asciilifeform it's only good for bolix.
18:08 asciilifeform ( or rather, for recent crapola you'd need ion accelerator and other items that quickly take the buildup cost to 6 figs , even if bought 2ndhand )
18:08 asciilifeform ... and then you need customers.
18:14 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it's a biz, there are folx who do it, i've talked to half dozen of'em last yr ( all in cn , 0 in latrine america ) -- but i dun presently know how to break into it
18:15 asciilifeform ( or even ~whether~ to -- rly, become piano tuner just cuz i have this 1 piano that's out of tune.. )
~ 15 minutes ~
18:31 BingoBoingo In other news, the poor kiosk on the block was apparently a victim of walk in and walk out with something shoplifting for a second time this week
18:34 * BingoBoingo wonders if Vzla or Brasil might have the right equipment otherwise employed
18:45 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: << Maybe shoot them a letter?
18:53 deedbot << Qntra - Feds Issue Fines And Cuffs To Older Black Men And Their Handlers Over Endorsement Deals
19:01 asciilifeform !Q later tell ave1
19:01 lobbesbot asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
19:02 asciilifeform !Q later tell ave1 << 'comrade mauser' .
19:02 lobbesbot asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
19:08 asciilifeform ^ orig didn't rhyme worth half a shit, i tried to fix bug.
19:10 BingoBoingo In other local business transactions... guess who from is for sale
19:10 asciilifeform ftr mayakovsky had the presence of mind to eat ~his~ mauser when it dawned on him that things weren't playing out.
19:11 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: why so far as brazil? what, BingoBoingostan has no university ?
19:12 BingoBoingo Brazil's a sort of Germany. It's the first place to look for capital equipment to rent on the continent
19:12 deedbot << Daniel P. Barron - There are channels for that
19:13 asciilifeform 'Some lines have been removed or altered due to offensive language or for not relating to the topic.' rly? srsly?
19:14 danielpbarron yeah, i don't want to offend people over things that aren't nessessary (the Gospel is offensive enough)
19:14 asciilifeform lol
19:17 asciilifeform meanwhile in lulz from the morning,
19:17 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 17:33 mircea_popescu: you're kinda famous for your generosity in this vein, actually.
19:17 asciilifeform watch d00d come back in 6 mo., having read log and his 3rd eye opened.
19:18 BingoBoingo Invisible third eye or brown third eye
19:18 asciilifeform if it's the latter, i won't bother to report
19:18 asciilifeform did give him a door to knock on, if the former.
19:19 deedbot << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2018 Report
19:21 asciilifeform ftr nobody's knocked on that door yet. #a is a pretty quiet castle.
19:27 asciilifeform << relatedly i have an old cruddy b00k in back room shelf, where spine reads 'THE OF' (some claptrap by b. russel, iirc, faded )
19:27 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 18:15 mircea_popescu: i esp like the - , ! sendoff
19:28 asciilifeform pet : 'let's throw out THE OF' a : 'only if you write me a new one'
19:30 * asciilifeform continues on 2nd pass of l0gz,
19:31 asciilifeform >> behold, '8,054,179,498 Words Consed' << what else do ya know of in 1980s that chugged through 288 GB (!) ?! ( bolix had 36bit word )
19:31 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 18:23 amberglint: I found a couple more bits about the Ivory
19:33 asciilifeform i'd bet swapping ~that~ to/from '80s 'fujitsu eagle's took most of those 6months !
19:33 asciilifeform picture what those folx could've done with modern fab.
19:35 asciilifeform 'Before leaving this subject, I should mention that there have been a number of interesting LISP Machine designs done outside the U.S., particularly in Japan. For example, see [Hayashi]' << asciilifeform once spent coupla months trying to dig up these. and europistan's 'racal norsk' also. found ~0.
19:35 asciilifeform all buried beneath the sands, even moar so than bolix.
19:35 asciilifeform even from xerox's lispm i was able to find moar.
19:37 asciilifeform ( it dun help that asciilifeform's jp is ~on par with a kindergartener's. slowly works on fixing this, but it's a far backburner item and i dun expect to get far in the near fyootoor )
19:38 asciilifeform jp was a hair's width away from picking up the torch that anglotardistan dropped, and anglos knew this, and so in late '80s they engineered an economic implosion for'em
19:38 asciilifeform in which ~all r&d perished
19:39 asciilifeform !#s fifth generation supercomputer
19:39 a111 0 results for "fifth generation supercomputer",
19:39 asciilifeform hrm.
19:40 asciilifeform jp wunderwaffen, '80s. evaporated without a gram's trace.
19:40 asciilifeform db instead of idjit filesystems, parallel-errything instead of vonneumann, etc.
19:41 asciilifeform was pretty concrete thing, rather than vapour as ordinarily presented in anglowank.
19:43 asciilifeform from looking with the right magnifying glass, asciilifeform formed distinct impression that jp was raped by usg in erry hole not once, as ordinarily supposed, but ~twice~.
19:44 asciilifeform ( whether there'll be a third time, i have nfi, possibly thing has no moar life juice remaining to stand up a third time )
19:45 BingoBoingo "Autodromo Virtual" (In an unlovable location):
19:46 asciilifeform lol hey didn't we walk past that thing
19:46 asciilifeform whatever it is
19:46 asciilifeform loox rather familiar.
19:46 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: what's that figure look like in gringodubloons ?
19:47 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: That is gringodabloons
19:47 asciilifeform aaa aite
19:47 BingoBoingo Looks similar to places we walked past because painted in a pasta shop livery
19:47 asciilifeform i have nfi who and why would pay that for a 2room orc box
19:47 BingoBoingo But in an area with little reason to walk to
19:47 asciilifeform could buy e.g. three palaces in timisoara
19:48 asciilifeform with that
19:48 BingoBoingo << Warehouse on mainstreet
19:48 asciilifeform four palaces.
19:48 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i have nfi who and why would pay that for a 2room orc box << That's the ask. It's a sale not a rental. Gotta break some balls
19:49 BingoBoingo Real estate sale prices in MVD are trending down, because Argentina doesn't have money to shelter anymore
19:51 BingoBoingo Apartments of the same or smaller size as Pizarro habitation module have a list price of ~100,000 USD even for sale. Rent for 14,500 to 16,000 pesos.
19:51 asciilifeform i can already picture idjit owner, 'i will sell! one day! this warehouse! and buy miami ticket!'
19:53 BingoBoingo Not being Argentina apparently busting balls to actual sale price ~30-70% lower is done here. Have not had opportunity to experiment myself
19:54 asciilifeform if i had with what to experiment, would prolly not resist temptation and go , experiment
19:54 BingoBoingo And prices do drop fast north of "Autodromo Virtual" but security needs increase
19:54 asciilifeform as it is, 30% of maxint is still maxint as far as asciilifeforms go
19:56 BingoBoingo Well, there are also kioskos located away from foot traffic too
19:57 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'ma bet that's either a rent price , a misprint, or a bold lie
19:57 asciilifeform it's missing at least 1 zero
19:57 BingoBoingo No, that's a sale price, but you are stuck with the operating cell phone repair business
19:57 BingoBoingo That's the buyer beware
19:57 asciilifeform really , stuck ?
19:57 asciilifeform and if you'd rather sell rakes ?
19:58 asciilifeform what happens ?
19:58 BingoBoingo Well, can sell rakes. But who knows what debts privious operator incurred with odd agencies that attach to the cell phone business
19:58 asciilifeform there is that.
19:59 asciilifeform there is also that it loox like literally 4 sq. m. room, a la ru prison, no bed space.
19:59 BingoBoingo Also, close to buy far enough from foot traffic to not get customers
19:59 asciilifeform there was a shithole like that in the carriageway of the 19th c megablock asciilifeform grew up in. d00d fixed clocks.
20:00 BingoBoingo Better situated kiosko
20:00 asciilifeform ( i think places like that were converted coachman's quarters )
20:00 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: that dun look habitable either
20:00 BingoBoingo Near plaza Tolstoi
20:00 asciilifeform prolly even lacks own latrine
20:01 BingoBoingo Probable
20:01 asciilifeform in these you won't put not only microscope, but not hammock either.
20:02 BingoBoingo Well, you wanted to walk away from maxint properties unencumbered by operating businesses
20:02 BingoBoingo Anyways, the broken dreams category
20:02 asciilifeform lol but i can live in refrigerator crate for phree. dun need to pay 3k dubloon.
20:03 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: these all look to be same type of item.
20:04 BingoBoingo Well, in the broken dreams category the properties often come with rental contract
20:04 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> lol but i can live in refrigerator crate for phree. dun need to pay 3k dubloon. << To live in refrigerator crate in MVD requires constant vigilance and learning Pichi cultural competence
20:05 asciilifeform i'm sure it does.
20:05 asciilifeform but prolly not much moar so than the holes in wall.
20:05 BingoBoingo Quite a bit more
20:05 BingoBoingo Can improvise a locking door for hole in wall and play squatter's law game to regularize the address
20:06 asciilifeform do they have the u.s.-style wank where 'ohnoez you can't LIVE here, it's COMMERCIAL addy' ?
20:06 BingoBoingo They don't seem to. Couple older dudes appear to live in the back rooms of their larger kioskos
20:07 asciilifeform so why 'squatter law' then
20:07 asciilifeform buy, if yer hammock fits, live
20:07 asciilifeform shower when it rains, iguess
20:08 asciilifeform waltz the peru chick on that pnoje repair counter
20:09 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> so why 'squatter law' then << Because there are hole in walls that don't have addresses, quite a few near feria zone. Occupy, sign up for a power connection, and get an address.
20:09 BingoBoingo !!up amberglint
20:09 deedbot amberglint voiced for 30 minutes.
20:09 asciilifeform i'ma bet the 3k u.s. hole in wall comes with 30k of debt tho. otherwise who would it be in them cardboard boxes.
20:09 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: fella has key, can self-power
20:09 BingoBoingo Ah
20:10 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i'ma bet the 3k u.s. hole in wall comes with 30k of debt tho. otherwise who would it be in them cardboard boxes. << Pasta base is reportely a hell of a drug and it is not a free drug
20:10 asciilifeform wassat?
20:10 amberglint BingoBoingo: I was about to up myself, but thanks :)
20:10 BingoBoingo The local favored cocaine alkaloid
20:10 asciilifeform ah
20:10 BingoBoingo Like crack, but instead of smoking it normally gets gummed
20:11 asciilifeform ugh
20:11 asciilifeform sounds approx as appealing as krokodil
20:11 amberglint << there was also a Soviet Refal machine:
20:11 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 00:35 asciilifeform: 'Before leaving this subject, I should mention that there have been a number of interesting LISP Machine designs done outside the U.S., particularly in Japan. For example, see [Hayashi]' << asciilifeform once spent coupla months trying to dig up these. and europistan's 'racal norsk' also. found ~0.
20:11 asciilifeform amberglint: i'm familiar
20:11 asciilifeform was last-days thing
20:11 amberglint and the end of the paper mentions a Soviet Lisp machine
20:12 amberglint "После завершения работ по ЕС-2702 были начаты работы по аппаратной реализации языка Лисп. Эти работы были стимулированы всплеском интереса к задачам искусственного интеллекта."
20:12 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> sounds approx as appealing as krokodil << Use is pretty much exclusive to pichis and children
20:12 asciilifeform amberglint: also familiar. it went to same place as all the non-pdpclone su stuff.
20:12 asciilifeform i.e. /dev/null
20:12 amberglint that's a shame
20:12 amberglint why the hell Soviets were so hell-bent on not doing anything original
20:13 asciilifeform managerial decision, some time circa 1978. we had thread here. old fart proclaimed 'use warez from usa, why pay software dev'
20:14 amberglint these days Russia buys outdated fabs from AMD and IBM
20:14 asciilifeform rents now. taiwan.
20:14 asciilifeform !#s elbrus
20:14 a111 94 results for "elbrus",
20:14 asciilifeform ^ see also
20:14 amberglint that too
20:14 amberglint AMD fab was gathering dust for ~7 years before it was recently put to any use
20:15 asciilifeform and they fab photoclones of ameri-crud.
20:15 asciilifeform today just like in 1978.
20:15 asciilifeform possibly not 1 actual native designer left alive.
20:16 amberglint the Elbrus designers can count as native, no?
20:16 asciilifeform old elbrus
20:16 asciilifeform 1972.
20:16 asciilifeform current one is a 'sparc'
20:16 amberglint really? afaik it's a VLIW that has nothing to do with SPARC
20:16 asciilifeform there's 2 , 1 clone of 'itanic', 1 of sparc iirc
20:17 asciilifeform neither seems to exist on commercial markets anywhere
20:17 amberglint I've tried to obtain any docs for the VLIW thing, but it's under NDA for some reason
20:17 asciilifeform ( asciilifeform and then mircea_popescu variously attempted to buy , 0 to show for it )
20:17 asciilifeform its under nda cuz it's dead-certainly a crude ripoff of existing ameri-trash
20:18 amberglint someone found the compiler for it though:
20:18 asciilifeform same reason the video card crapolas are closed source
20:19 amberglint the lead designer of the VLIW Elbrus was later hired away by Intel
20:19 asciilifeform in fact looks like itanium.
20:20 asciilifeform aka 'the itanic'
20:21 asciilifeform amberglint: recall how microshit hired away entire staff of borland ?
20:21 asciilifeform famously sent limousine to pick them ALL up on same evening
20:21 asciilifeform nomoar borland.
20:22 amberglint asciilifeform: never heard of the limousine, but I know that C# was made by Delphi people
20:22 asciilifeform and arm64 by hired-away DEC alpha folx
20:22 asciilifeform ( after which nomoar dec alpha )
20:22 * asciilifeform quite fond of alpha, the architecture book was ~thin~
20:22 amberglint the Chinese apparently borrowed Alpha for their homegrown arch
20:23 asciilifeform ... and microcode was documented, os writer could add new instrs
20:23 asciilifeform none of the chinese archs, interestingly, available commercially either
20:23 asciilifeform rather like elbrus.
20:23 asciilifeform 100% for internal use.
20:24 asciilifeform i've been trying to buy a 'loongson' for 5+yrs nao.
20:24 asciilifeform no canhaz.
20:24 amberglint oddly enough, there's a university textbook on Elbrus, no instruction set there either:
20:25 asciilifeform ( then they went and ~licensed~ american mips. and i stopped wanting to buy. i can buy mips already )
20:25 asciilifeform mega-textbook, with no instr set, lol
20:26 asciilifeform reads more like commercial brochure.
20:26 asciilifeform pretty odd thing, has bus timings etc but indeed no instr set.
20:26 asciilifeform wtf
20:27 asciilifeform what the fuck is wrong with these people.
20:27 asciilifeform they seem to be heavily fucked in the head.
20:27 amberglint yet "Рекомендовано ... в качестве учебного пособия для студентов высших учебных заведений"
20:28 asciilifeform but ofcourse.
20:28 asciilifeform i have a b00k like that here, 'учебное пособие по криптографии' somthing or other. which fails to contain rsa.
20:28 asciilifeform some meathead minister signed off on it, and guesswat, it's Official textbook nao! in some shithole
20:32 amberglint do you know that Elbrus has a youtube channel for some reason? it's pretty strange:
20:32 asciilifeform lol 'can overclock elbrus ?'
20:32 asciilifeform i.e. == 'can butcher loch ness monster ? can make sausage?'
20:33 amberglint he also tries to sell it as a GTA and Doom machine
20:33 asciilifeform prolly satire
20:33 asciilifeform i dun think any plebe has laid hands on the thing or ever will
20:34 amberglint he works at MCST
20:34 asciilifeform well i dun work there , lol , so cannot say whether he does or no. but still funny.
20:35 asciilifeform wake me up when they make a , + open docs like
20:35 a111 Logged on 2018-10-23 14:21 asciilifeform: fabricate it in 1uM or similar 1980s process. package with optical quartz lid , a la old EPROMs, for audit-with-childrens-microscope.
20:36 asciilifeform as it is, they've copied ALL of the ameri-idiocies, incl. 'closed errything'
20:36 asciilifeform intel is rubbish, but at least i can go to junkyard and get it.
20:36 asciilifeform 'elbrus' can get in dreams only.
20:38 amberglint I wonder why do they even bother with this junk
20:39 asciilifeform 'sovereignty'
20:39 asciilifeform !!up amberglint
20:39 deedbot amberglint voiced for 30 minutes.
20:39 asciilifeform why not ask why mcst makes pentium clone. to run winblowz on.
20:39 asciilifeform ( it does )
20:39 asciilifeform what kind of sense does ~that~ make.
20:40 amberglint the 'sovereign' fabs all run Cadence and Mentor Graphics stuff
20:40 asciilifeform indeed they do
20:40 asciilifeform on mswin.
20:40 asciilifeform on, i'll add, imported intels.
20:41 asciilifeform last yr ( and before ) i talked to a coupla ic fabs, in various countries. they all not only run winshit but demand that you use their 'standard cells', which available (surprise?) under nda
20:41 asciilifeform as cadence crapola
20:41 asciilifeform whole biz is rotten from head to feet.
20:42 amberglint I've seen some open 130nm PDK for Magic CAD recently somewhere, can't find it
20:42 asciilifeform pcb fabs, much more pedestrian affair, are run sanely, they eat PNGs and text file of coords/rotations for placer robot.
20:42 asciilifeform but for some reason no ic fab does.
20:43 asciilifeform concern appears to be 'But Our Seekrit Process Chem!1111'
20:44 asciilifeform ( at 'modern' micronicities, fab process is no longer standard but custom to the chem, and entirely diff at each fab house. hence the proprietary tooling crapolade. )
20:44 amberglint what about this?
20:44 asciilifeform !#s mosis
20:44 a111 7 results for "mosis",
20:44 asciilifeform ^ see also
20:45 asciilifeform approx same thing.
20:45 asciilifeform there was a french one also, similar.
20:45 asciilifeform + they charge weight in diamonds, per die.
20:45 asciilifeform << see also
20:45 a111 Logged on 2018-10-25 05:14 asciilifeform: there's a coupla 'small scale' fabs, but on close examination smell like ripoff, they ship with literally 0 guarantee of yield , and in laughable qty , and with laughable transistor count, and -- to add insult to injury -- die packaging not included, you gotta somehow find someone to do it, somewhere
20:46 amberglint at least they eat input from Magic CAD without NDA crap?
20:46 asciilifeform claims, at least.
20:47 * asciilifeform not tried, and not about to pay 1000 $ ea. for ~unpackaged~ may-or-may-not-work dies
20:49 asciilifeform iirc mircea_popescu's hypothesis was that the whole thing is an 'idiot tax' for people who don't know how to get'em made in cn
20:49 asciilifeform but we currently have 0 penetration into cn, so i've nothing to add to this yet
20:58 asciilifeform there's arguably 2 separate problems at hand : 1) how to bake an ic such that it's an actual economic proposition, rather than resembling that car e. musk launched to mars 2) to get it done by someone other than malicious winshit-idiots . both -- currently open problems.
20:58 asciilifeform i , for instance, dun have with what to launch car into mars. mircea_popescu -- has with what, but is smart enuff not to.
20:59 amberglint has anyone tried to reverse-engineer Cadence shit?
20:59 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> but we currently have 0 penetration into cn, so i've nothing to add to this yet << Chinese tend to have more trouble with the letter "rr" than I do
20:59 asciilifeform amberglint: not only not afaik; but even ~microshit word doc~ format not fully reversed yet.
21:00 asciilifeform it's a moving target, elementarily
21:00 asciilifeform by the time someone reverses, they change it, and force the idjit users to 'upgrade'
21:00 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: they aint got a 'r'.
21:01 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Apparently not. Not in the sense spanish has two of them.
21:01 asciilifeform not in any sense.
21:01 asciilifeform it aint phonemic to'em.
21:01 asciilifeform sorta how the hindu glottal 'd' isn't to us.
21:01 asciilifeform or those horrid 3 variant of thorn the arabs have.
21:13 BingoBoingo Short walk (other side of front door) to the feria
21:13 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: fwiw we definitely walked past that.
21:13 BingoBoingo We did indeed
21:13 asciilifeform wai no inside pics
21:13 asciilifeform prolly trashed ?
21:14 asciilifeform and that's a washington price. these people have fucked heads.
21:15 asciilifeform even if cut it in half.
21:15 BingoBoingo Inside prolly trashed
21:15 asciilifeform i bet they get tax writeoff for 'not sold or rented it this yr, just like last 20 yrs' like ameritards get
21:16 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> and that's a washington price. these people have fucked heads. << Well, how many dindus does Washington have vs how many Montevideo has
21:16 asciilifeform still riotous
21:16 amberglint asciilifeform: someone at UC Berkeley tried to suck grantolade by welding hardware GC to RISC-V:
21:16 asciilifeform amberglint: even sun flirted with iron gc, in '90s
21:16 asciilifeform went nowhere
21:17 asciilifeform amberglint: it's a
21:17 amberglint lol yeah
21:17 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i bet they get tax writeoff for 'not sold or rented it this yr, just like last 20 yrs' like ameritards get << Well property taxes here like income taxes are relatively low.
21:18 BingoBoingo IVA's the bitch
21:18 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: then it's straight miami 'I AM WORTH!' delusionism, i guess
21:18 BingoBoingo Well, gotta talk em down
21:19 asciilifeform amberglint: gc without tagged words is a lol
21:21 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: for comparison : 100k in ye olde ro buys any of
21:21 a111 Logged on 2017-11-28 00:02 asciilifeform: other typical items :
21:22 asciilifeform and , for all i know, would buy a
21:22 a111 Logged on 2017-11-27 23:46 asciilifeform: + << subj ( and it dun fit in 1 frame, even )
21:23 asciilifeform ( what the 'catch' is , iirc was discussed in the l0gz )
21:24 asciilifeform i dun think i in entire life saw bldgs as sweet as the ones in timis.
21:25 asciilifeform ( or smelled air as clean )
21:25 asciilifeform or ate food as edible. etc
21:25 asciilifeform it was a fuckin' valhalla ( admittedly, valhalla only while yer jacket pockets are fulla green )
21:27 asciilifeform whatever pantsuitocalypse had killed it in mircea_popescu's eyes, was not detectable to my instruments.
21:27 asciilifeform ( perhaps if one tried to set up there, would find out.. )
21:28 asciilifeform beautifully depopulated , too, 0 crowds, 0 queues. sorta like a hypothetical bunenos aires after redditbagging complete.
21:29 BingoBoingo And what happens when the somali syrian refugees walk there?
21:29 asciilifeform they starve.
21:29 asciilifeform hence why not walked.
21:29 asciilifeform they haven't invented payola there yet.
21:30 asciilifeform ( just like in ru -- 'refugees' only went to ru while finland border were open )
21:30 BingoBoingo I thought they uninvented it
21:30 asciilifeform not afaik
21:30 asciilifeform out of what, would they.
21:31 BingoBoingo Well, they had the whole communism thing where mircea_popescu got a silver spoon and everyone else payola
21:31 asciilifeform ah that
21:31 asciilifeform that world -- gone
21:32 asciilifeform currently it's a mostly empty country, with a few 'mercedes' plants as 'economy'
21:32 asciilifeform ( in bucharest there's a microshit bldg, where they keep amstan 's . but that's afaik more or less it )
21:34 asciilifeform i went to a zoo. there was ONE other visitor, a brit.
21:34 asciilifeform ( was there for ~4hrs, very relaxy spot. ~no other folx. )
21:34 asciilifeform somehow montevideo with , what, 2mil+ people, can't keep a zoo open
21:35 asciilifeform and timis with maybe 100k people, can
21:36 asciilifeform i have nfi how it is even possible to have ~empty town where ~erry other walker you see on the sidewalk is a hot chix.
21:37 asciilifeform but somehow there it was.
21:37 asciilifeform ( or how meal that can't be bought in usa for $1000+ can cost 10 . )
21:38 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> somehow montevideo with , what, 2mil+ people, can't keep a zoo open << Aparently there is another newer zoo
21:38 asciilifeform oh hah. been to it yet ?
21:38 BingoBoingo But less conveniently located
21:38 BingoBoingo It's part of a "park" in favela land
21:39 asciilifeform ugh
21:39 BingoBoingo Neighborhood may not be that bad, but it is at least a bus ride away in a direction that leaves me unenthused
21:40 asciilifeform prolly worth going 1ce.
21:40 asciilifeform gotta colour in that map.
21:40 BingoBoingo There's another zoo not far in Atlantida, on the to visit list
21:40 asciilifeform whoknows, maybe that's where they sell hdds..
21:40 BingoBoingo << SEM home
21:41 asciilifeform lol
21:41 BingoBoingo operating factory with 3-phase service
21:41 asciilifeform this thread leads to drink, so i'ma stop here for nao, off to non-electronic room, bbl.
21:43 * mircea_popescu has just drank, can then pick it uo
21:45 mircea_popescu in the other lulz : LordMPofTMSR 38M Master ~~~1y~~~~ "How goes ?" mermaidkynna 25F sub 4h "Good"
21:47 mircea_popescu << whole fucking idea is to a) lighten the load of dying empire ; b) round the coffers of republican corps to better divorce from vagaries of usg faux "market".
21:47 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 22:31 asciilifeform: prolly oughta add that surplus SEM in particular ( and similar irons ) 1) generally live in usa 2) dun exactly fit in smuggle-trunk under old shirts
21:49 mircea_popescu << sort of thing that makes me suspicious of the whole "good science" theory etc. but, won't rehash, pretty sure we did that already to the point it died of end mommentum.
21:49 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 22:37 asciilifeform: i still can't fucking believe that d00d. 'my experiment requires 3 litres of virgin tears' 'hey al, i took 300 virgins and ran then rom-coms until they cried 3L, here it is in a mason jar' 'but! reasons!'
21:50 mircea_popescu << pretty sure this actually occured kek.
21:50 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 22:41 asciilifeform: for some reason i immediately picture that story where 'abrams' tank was smuggled to su in diplo-crates, piecemeal
21:52 mircea_popescu << makes chainsaws too you know :D
21:52 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 22:56 asciilifeform: it's rather like a 'caterpillar'. how many folx do you know who have own 'caterpillar' and dun work it erry day for daily bread.
21:54 mircea_popescu \ << kinda the problem, this is how airports end up owning a fleet of eg iceploughs : "we only need them 3 days each decade -- but as it happens it's always the exact fucking three day you can't possibly fucking find one to rent, of these items that otherwise go for 500 a day."
21:54 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 23:03 BingoBoingo: Having a rebuilt caterpillar is usually a result of it being inconvenient to rent when it brings the most convenience
21:55 mircea_popescu << something like that, yeah.
21:55 a111 Logged on 2018-11-30 23:14 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's a biz, there are folx who do it, i've talked to half dozen of'em last yr ( all in cn , 0 in latrine america ) -- but i dun presently know how to break into it
22:05 mircea_popescu "Rice, 30, first claimed to have raised $300m from AriseBank's coin offering, then upped that figure to $600m, and later promised this could be the first billion-dollar crypto-dosh offering. However, despite all that publicity and hype, it is claimed hundreds of punters invested just $4.25m in exchange for the bank's tokens." << keks. and this is after usg multiply-magic, "we found 777 kgs of cocaine in the shape of a toyota
22:05 mircea_popescu plasticar whose glove compartment held a dime bag. whole item weight -- counts".
22:14 mircea_popescu << this sorta thing... "picture what naggum could've done with vtrees and wots" etc. if only netwon had neutron gun!
22:14 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 00:33 asciilifeform: picture what those folx could've done with modern fab.
22:15 mircea_popescu <<->> ; also ended anglo finance and ~everything else. there's a ushinski story about the cat fighting a falcon, end results similar.
22:15 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 00:38 asciilifeform: jp was a hair's width away from picking up the torch that anglotardistan dropped, and anglos knew this, and so in late '80s they engineered an economic implosion for'em
22:15 a111 Logged on 2018-11-29 17:55 mircea_popescu: led to the usual symptoms of imperial decay -- monetization of real estate (a bad idea throughout, even if it repatriated the money japs made selling toyotas/sinking detroit in the 70s -- sorta like arsenic is bad for you even if it "keeps syphilis inactive" and so on) ; the star model driving and being driven by the fashion cycle, and so the fuck on.
22:17 mircea_popescu << -- >> ; germany quite same situation.
22:17 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 00:43 asciilifeform: from looking with the right magnifying glass, asciilifeform formed distinct impression that jp was raped by usg in erry hole not once, as ordinarily supposed, but ~twice~.
22:23 mircea_popescu << weird "saving self" thing, like the indians have with ejaculation. seems nutty enough if expressed, but it's kinda my takeaway, soviet thought "last man to think wins".
22:23 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 01:12 amberglint: why the hell Soviets were so hell-bent on not doing anything original
22:25 mircea_popescu << the "AriseBank" reason. there's this large class of idle idiots who think "secrecy" might be confused with value. much like there's a cloud of fat stupid old women not even the dogs would fuck, who imagine they're being coy.
22:25 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 01:17 amberglint: I've tried to obtain any docs for the VLIW thing, but it's under NDA for some reason
22:27 mircea_popescu << lmao. those two lines eminently bashable.
22:27 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 01:27 asciilifeform: they seem to be heavily fucked in the head.
22:31 mircea_popescu << what would impel anyone to ?
22:31 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 01:59 amberglint: has anyone tried to reverse-engineer Cadence shit?
22:35 mircea_popescu << is one in timisoara also, "alcatel" of all things.
22:35 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 02:32 asciilifeform: ( in bucharest there's a microshit bldg, where they keep amstan 's . but that's afaik more or less it )
22:37 mircea_popescu << you can have a decent, new construction, 4-6k sqm floor space metal structure warehouse in ro for 100k+/-. but yes, more generally there's no place for real estate like europe. rest of the world, latam especially, 100% africans, built five huts in fifteen centuries. of which two burned down, so the other three are EVEN MORE VALUABLE NOW
22:37 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 02:41 asciilifeform: this thread leads to drink, so i'ma stop here for nao, off to non-electronic room, bbl.
22:44 BingoBoingo Sounds about right
22:47 BingoBoingo Now if you want to see delusional cranked up a few notches... There's Paraguay
22:52 amberglint << getting more 'sovereignty' which supposedly impelled the ru gov to buy the fabs in the first place, could gradually replace the IC software stack with something homegrown if cared; nothing to impel anyone without those fabs, of course
22:52 a111 Logged on 2018-12-01 03:31 mircea_popescu: << what would impel anyone to ?
~ 20 minutes ~
23:13 BingoBoingo !Qlater tell amberglint your last line ties into the real estate thread. Easier to buy things than make things or have them made
23:13 lobbesbot BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
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