#ossasepia | 2020-05-24

diana_coman: i have an experimental vpatch for that issue that i have written when there was a previous discussion about this. it's not 100% fix of the issue, but should be enough to solve most cases of it.

~ 26 minutes ~

09:32

i have uploaded it at http://bvt-trace.net/vpatches/vtools_vsh_fix_false_dependecies.vpatch http://bvt-trace.net/vpatches/vtools_vsh_fix_false_dependecies.vpatch.bvt.sig

09:38

the idea is to 1. maintain refcounts for all the hunks in the vpatch which antecedents are currently determined. a candidate vpatch that matches the incoming hash increments the refcount for the hunk 2. don't exit the resolution loop when all the hunks are 'satisfied' (refcount >= 1) 3. after looping through all vpatches, check if there any any candidate antecedents, whose incremented refcounts are now all

09:38

> 1; these antecedents are false/superfluous matches, and can be dropped.

09:38

i will do the proper writeup sometime this week

~ 4 hours 53 minutes ~

14:32

bvt: oh hey, that is quick! honestly, I am even still mulling over re what is exactly the correct approach there; the main trouble was one of confusing message since "loop" in my head meant full state rather than single-file-state (hence essentially made impossible by a properly updated manifest file, in itself); possibly at least a warning would be reasonable, but it might really make more sense to talk the matter through & give it ...

14:32

... some thought

14:34

bvt: what's the cost of this change you've made, anyway? esp on large v-trees, does it make *everything* slower since now it has to go through all vpatches at all times?

14:37

what I mean is: how much slower/how much of a problem and therefore is it the best approach? perhaps it's simply enough to give a clearer error message (e.g. which file is the trouble) and let operator sort it out; btw the *press* at least gave the message but iirc a vtree /antecedent command only did...nothing, silently, which is really confusing.

14:41

hm, it turns out I have some irl unexpecteds to sort out today, apparently this weekend is not for that irc

~ 48 minutes ~

15:29

does anyone have handy the trilema piece about a business being about handling all the things that aren't seen/thought of?

15:30

i think it might have been just a paragraph in a larger article, can't remember

15:34

ah, nm, found it http://trilema.com/2019/the-business-and-the-fantasy/?b=a%20business&e=done#select

~ 34 minutes ~

16:08

billymg: it's not as much about all the things that aren't seen/thought of but rather a very hard "all the things" (hence, with the implicit "whether seen/though of or not, makes no difference, it's *all* or might as well be none"

16:10

diana_coman: good point, and that's certainly how i understood it

16:18

there's a misinterpretation possible that isn't mentioned, or I didn't see it in there.

16:19

it's true that running a business means exhaustively mapping the territory in which it operates.

16:19

it does not mean your capacity to deal with everything you've mapped is infinite.

16:20

having the map allows you to decide which thing you're going to handle first, second, ...

16:20

mp mentions this elsewhere in re: having the girls order their communication thus.

16:21

well, nothing is infinite anyway.

16:21

nor is everything equally important as everything else, certainly

16:21

Joe65: hello, what brings you here?

16:22

true, yet hubris is common.

16:22

trinque: heh, what set you so hardly against "hubris"?

16:22

10 yrs in my own business plus however many in tmsr :)

16:24

while I can see at least *some* angle to that however many in tmsr, I advance the possible thought that "hubris" might not be all there is to it; at times it might even have its usefulness!

16:28

what'd a case of that be?

16:31

generically like that - the short-burst overexertion that may be needed to overcome a block; to the extent that there is space and time afterwards to decompress and that short-lived intense burst was exactly what was required, it fits.

16:31

hm, I don't disagree with that, so I suspect we have these symbols mapped differently.

16:34

possibly; it does seem that keeping-in-the-very-real-with-all-its-limitations is a relatively difficult/rare achievement nowadays, I'll certainly grant that.

16:34

hubris is when one ignores the gods, which is to say when he orders himself higher in the chain of causes than he is.

16:34

yep

16:36

incidentally jfw you mentioned that your business was heating up?

16:36

curious what's going on there, congrats if so

16:37