Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-12-11 | 2019-12-13 → ↓
04:01 whaack diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4hr of saltmines and did a trip to town where I got a multimeter, a mosquito net, groceries for the week, and opened a local bank account (I have to return to town on Friday though to pick up the debit card, I will adjust my schedule tomorrow morning.) I did 1hr 45mins of Spanish study tonight as well.
~ 3 hours 41 minutes ~
07:43 diana_coman whaack: for next week's plan, list separately all those things that end up eating your days; it's getting rather tedious to keep searching in there for something other than saltmines, running around and various others really.
~ 4 hours 47 minutes ~
12:30 whaack diana_coman: ok
12:41 diana_coman whaack: any more spinning?
12:43 whaack diana_coman: Yes a bit, but significantly less than the previous day i believe.
~ 3 hours 41 minutes ~
16:24 whaack diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-08#1012261 <-- My understanding now is that Mateiu is the 'narcissist' and he is butthurt about 'discovering hypocrisy' of his father. He imagines it hypocritical for his father to write he was awed by his friend's "despising social discipline" years ago while today reprimanding his son for the ~same behavior. But I am still unclear as to why 'narcissist' is in quotes. My
16:24 whaack guess (influenced from tlp dabbling) is some would characterize the 'despising social discipline' behavior as narcissism, but narcissism is something deeper/different.
16:24 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-08 12:50:21 diana_coman: as to the last sentence, think of who in there would "discover hypocrisy" and then be all butthurt about it.
~ 56 minutes ~
17:21 diana_coman dorion_road: just pay more attention to word-changes, that's all; it's ...surprising and in this context boring is better really; (you did once before too).
17:22 diana_coman whaack: well, how is he a narcissist if he cares that much about... his father's opinion of him rather than, you know, about himself?
17:30 dorion_road diana_coman thanks, will pay more attention.
17:41 whaack diana_coman: Let me see if I get this straight. The larger point is that those who act as though they don't care what others think are going to be angry when they see what they consider to be hypocrisy of their idols. Since despite their pretense they are actually trying to live to be [what they imagine / is a convenient interpretation of] the person their idols would like to have a beer with. Their 'discovering hypocrisy' is them
17:41 whaack realizing they are not living up to be that person.
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
18:57 diana_coman whaack: well yes, it's the telltale sign of the whole pretense.
19:01 diana_coman and the "inevitable", "who could have predicted" result of it, too.
19:06 diana_coman whaack: do you have all the computer components now?
19:08 whaack diana_coman: No I am still waiting for the parts to ship. The delay is because the RAM needed to be ordered from pcgamingcr's supplier. Their rep gave me the excuse that the order from the supplier is taking extra time since I ordered around black friday.
19:10 diana_coman sucks; ok.
19:10 diana_coman whaack: what exactly are you going to read though for 4 hours on this??
19:12 whaack diana_coman: I was going to look for articles of people explaining their process of having put together a computer. And then I was going to figure out what I need to do to get my os (centos 6) installed with my hardware.
19:12 diana_coman tbh if it's worth spending 4 hours reading, then it's by the same logic worth spending another half hour summarizing and publishing it; but I have a rather hard time imagining what you get out of just-theory-reading, it's a practical skill after all.
19:13 diana_coman isn't that best done when you can already ...do it though? I mean what, you look at them now and then by the time you finally get the parts you forgot anyway most of it?
19:17 whaack diana_coman: Yes it makes sense to move that until the parts are in my possession. I can update my schedule and replace today's task with going over trinque's published sources. (Tomorrow's will be replaced with going to town again to pick up my debit card.)
19:17 diana_coman for that matter in general, why so carefully-theoretic-only about all of it really; sure, theory is fine and useful but only if put to practice too.
19:17 diana_coman whaack: yes and moreover *standing up* trinque's bot too; read the code, annotate it, but ALSO stand it up after that, what
19:18 diana_coman it's not some artefact to worship-but-not-touch, what.
19:18 whaack aha
19:18 diana_coman so update those tasks and do something with that bot too; it'll make for more interesting review too, anyway.
19:19 whaack diana_coman: okay will do.
~ 44 minutes ~
20:03 lobbes diana_coman: I am ready when you are
20:05 diana_coman lobbes: cool; do you have something more concrete/detailed in mind re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-08#1012295 ?
20:05 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-08 20:01:05 lobbes: diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school.
20:07 diana_coman you've been around for a lot of time but most of it you've been so elusive that overall there's surprisingly little all that clear from you, you know?
20:07 lobbes hm, yeah I know what you mean on the surprisingly little
20:08 lobbes well, I think I'd benefit from some kind of structure, but I am not exactly clear on how much.
20:09 diana_coman heh, 3.5m wide and 5.95 recurring tall; that's not something to know exactly clear upfront, lolz.
20:09 diana_coman lobbes: to start from somewhere though - what do you want from here?
20:10 diana_coman as overall result I mean.
20:10 lobbes diana_coman: I think I could benefit from a sort of sounding board; the issue I keep having is thinking I'm on the right track when I'm not
20:11 diana_coman how/when do you find out you "are not" though?
20:11 lobbes when I communicate what I'm doing I suppose
20:11 lobbes and others with experience weigh in
20:13 lobbes perhaps I just need some plan that I stick to that keeps me from ceasing this communication like I tend to do
20:13 diana_coman hm, that you were supposedly addressing (and that's how this here took a break iirc) simply by publishing/talking more though; it doesn't seem to have worked/been enough; so how about you leave off for a minute the focus on "what do I need" and tell me where you want to get too.
20:14 diana_coman to*.
20:15 lobbes okay. /me takes a second to think
20:15 diana_coman take your time.
20:19 lobbes diana_coman: I think where I ultimately want to get to is a situation where I have greater ownership over my own life. Right now, I really don't. I've made some steps, but still, I am a slave to the saltmines, I have epsilon working capital, and I also cannot code really
20:20 diana_coman that sounds more useful already.
20:23 lobbes tmsr has given me many tools with which to help me towards that, but I am still fumbling on how to use many of the tools effectually it seems
20:23 diana_coman lobbes: so how did this come about really? ~all the context I have on you is along the lines of "he's been stuck for years on the comfy path to boiled-frog, snapped out of it at close-to-last-moment, didn't have much support/advice/something to lean on to extricate self"
20:24 lobbes diana_coman: that context summary is pretty accurate. I have snapped out of it, but now am in a state of "wut do next?"
20:27 diana_coman re fumbling, it's quite possibly because of the actual depth of those tools - there's much more to them than it seems and if you have no idea, it's not quite working, yes; it reminds me of my rather-interesting-learning-to-ski moment but sadly it's Romanian only lol.
20:28 diana_coman tldr: I had no idea but went willingly with friends who promised to "teach me"; they taught me how to put the equipment on and then pretty much shoved me down the slope, lolz; at the end of the day, down a black slope too; I...survived.
20:29 diana_coman anyway, back to you lobbes, mind if I ask you a whole bunch of questions?
20:29 lobbes lol, now I wish I could read Romanian. Sounds like a good tale
20:29 lobbes (well I wished I could read it before, but you know what I mean)
20:29 lobbes diana_coman: fire away
20:30 diana_coman lobbes: what did you study for all-that-debt anyway?
20:32 lobbes diana_coman: I started in computer science, but switched after about a semester to business management. While I did (and do) have an interest in business, I wagered it was a quicker/easier path to many Inca-salary-pellets
20:32 lobbes It was, too. I exam-took my way through the whole thing
20:32 lobbes much like I did for public school before
20:33 diana_coman well, that clarifies the "can't code" and possibly a whole lot of the "can't quite use those tools properly", you know?
20:33 lobbes diana_coman: absolutely.
20:33 lobbes I was just smart enough to be very stupid
20:34 diana_coman so you piled some learning-debt on top of the money-debt, after which you went ahead and found someone to also eat up those inca-salary-pellets?
20:35 lobbes yes, that is correct. Which I let happen for about 8 years; did not save any money during this time (save for my ~1.7 btc)
20:36 * diana_coman shakes head.
20:36 diana_coman lobbes: now I wonder just where are you exactly otherwise, hm.
20:36 diana_coman what did you learn from that business management?
20:37 lobbes diana_coman: a lot of useless nonsense for the most part, though I enjoyed statistics and a few others
20:38 diana_coman lobbes: what work did you do?
20:38 diana_coman and what "few others"? be more precise please, it's quite hard to pin anything down as it is.
20:40 lobbes diana_coman: I also liked calculus, accounting, and my economics classes. There were so many mandatory pantsuit ones though ("environmental responsibility" etc) that I checked out a bit
20:40 diana_coman fwiw you do seem to like very-neatly-and-clearly-defined-sorted-categorised-stuff, yes.
20:40 lobbes diana_coman: for work, I started out doing ETL work, migrating business data into the backend of SAP ERP. It was a consulting firm
20:41 lobbes I cut my teeth on SQL at that job, but that's really the only language I was exposed to
20:42 lobbes I stayed in that line of work for about 6 years until I got my current gig as an "excel jocky" (which I've been doing for about 3 yrs)
20:42 diana_coman does that pay better or why the switch?
20:43 lobbes diana_coman: pay is better, yes (even though I'm doing much easier work; that's charlotte for you though)
20:44 diana_coman tbh from my (very limited, granted) experience with "jobs", the more mind-numbing it is, the better paid, at least up to some ceiling ie within a certain context, yes.
20:45 diana_coman lobbes: thing is, it still seems like it's eating the best part of your time&energy; how much time do you actually have left anyway?
20:47 lobbes diana_coman: time left each week after saltmines? probably about 20-30 hours depending on errands and such
20:47 diana_coman hm, they don't... show for real so far, something's weird there.
20:48 diana_coman 20-30 hours per week is quite a lot really so either it's not really that or you don't make very good use of them.
20:49 lobbes it may be a bit of both of those.. I also am noticing I have a poor grasp on the time I spend each day into each activity
20:49 lobbes and a poor recollection on what I spent in time in the past
20:50 diana_coman well, usually that works well only if actually measured; if you rely solely on memory, it will always lie to you, there's no way around that.
20:51 lobbes it is true that I have not been measuring my time spent
20:52 diana_coman lobbes: you had on your blog all sorts of plans, for escape and some re selling that house and so on; there's a. no follow up on those so - where are they? b. unclear if you made them because "gotta make a plan" / "wtf to do???" or because "I actually want to do this"
20:53 diana_coman so at b: which of those is it?
20:56 lobbes diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill)
20:56 lobbes it seems I ought to resolve those things first before I make any jumps
20:58 diana_coman hm; did you study in your home town? I gathered you did move a bit about the US but not exactly when/why/how far; mind going through that? (there's a point to it).
21:00 diana_coman if anything though, understand that there isn't really every any "ready" for anything as in ticking a list of stuff off upfront and that list being also actually useful; it's just not how it works
21:00 diana_coman ever* not every, ffs.
21:02 lobbes I started out in a small town in the Cod; went to a community college there for first two years of school. Then moved to the western half of the state to go to a 'state school' for last two years.
21:02 lobbes After graduation I couldn't find any work around the area, but I had a buddy out in northern Ohio who was able to get my foot in the door at that consulting firm doing the ETL work.
21:03 lobbes moved out there and stayed for 6 years; kinda hit the ceiling in that area and heard the salaries were higher in Charlotte NC, so I picked up and moved there
21:03 lobbes but each time I moved, I had something 'lined up' first
21:03 diana_coman aha.
21:04 diana_coman lobbes: did you live any time outside the US?
21:06 lobbes diana_coman: no not at all. I did visit the Dominican Republic for a week (got to see the 'real' bit because I was with Dominicans, so it was a good experience), but that is the only time I've even left the US
21:08 * diana_coman has brushed up on US map.
21:10 diana_coman lobbes: of all the things going on around tmsr, what appeals to you the most anyway? and really appeals, not the "oh, it would be so NICE if I did this"
21:12 lobbes hm, I'ma think a second on this one too
21:13 diana_coman lobbes: add to the thinking: how would you define/quantify "I want" ?
21:13 diana_coman so there's at least some more to think of, lol; take your time.
21:19 diana_coman BingoBoingo: thank you btw for all that info; I can certainly see why/how you make an excellent guide to a place, seriously.
21:21 lobbes diana_coman: re: what appeals most, I think that what keeps me coming back is the fact that I have never in my life been able to articulate/work through my own thoughts as well as I can after spending these years interacting with actual humans. I don't know of any other place on the planet that helps me do this to same magnitude
21:21 BingoBoingo diana_coman: It is a pleasure. Lots of little nuggests piled up in the collection while evaluating how much of the place we just might be able to capture.
21:23 lobbes It is the process itself that appeals to me most, I think. There's this trilema I can't find right now that has that Newman quote "It is the education which gives a man a clear, conscious view of their own opinions and judgements... It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought to detect what is sophistical and to discard what is irrelevant."
21:23 lobbes My actual schooling did not do this for me, but tmsr does and has
21:24 diana_coman BingoBoingo: I think that's quite it - you pay a lot of attention to a lot of things, basically documentation at its best, or I don't even know how to better put it; I'd guess it has to do with the journalism side but since I'm not all that knowledgeable on that, I can't fully tell.
21:24 lobbes diana_coman: re: quantifying wants: can you do that? Wants are always changing
21:25 diana_coman lobbes: you are looking for john henry newman
21:25 diana_coman lobbes: yes, you can and no, fundamental ones do not change that easily really.
21:26 diana_coman but look above, you said you wanted to sell the house and to travel
21:26 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-12 17:04:09 lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill)
21:27 diana_coman I doubt you actually want it atm though; you'd certainly like to, yes; but not want to.
21:29 diana_coman poor English even gives a clue there I suppose, in that a "want" is essentially a deficiency/lack/state of need, isn't it?
21:31 lobbes diana_coman: I see what you mean re: fundamental wants not changing easily
21:32 lobbes diana_coman: I literally just looked up etymology of "want" and that is exactly what I saw "deficiency, insufficiency"
21:32 diana_coman at any rate, the way to quantify a want is simply by what you are *truly willing to lose/give up* in order to fulfil that "want"; it's always like that, defined by the negatives.
21:33 diana_coman well, *you* are the native speaker, what.
21:33 lobbes ah that negative space again
21:33 diana_coman all sorts of negatives but yes.
21:33 lobbes diana_coman: do you know how much English I've learned from Trilema though? :P
21:34 diana_coman ahaha; no, I don't; how much? (and anyway, trilema's not mine :P )
21:34 lobbes diana_coman: I know not yours, but I mean, non-native speakers are always schooling me in English
21:34 jfw re 'want', I recall learning this heavier meaning only later, as in early school I was taught about 'wants vs. needs' with 'wants' being more the 'would like to haves'
21:34 lobbes poor US schooling, you know
21:35 diana_coman lobbes: eh, stop blaming others/the environment/the year/the phases of the moon, will you? you are not 15 anymore.
21:35 lobbes diana_coman: you are right. I will cease that behavior
21:35 diana_coman jfw: heh, and how did you learn that heavier meaning anyway?
21:35 lobbes it is on me
21:38 diana_coman lobbes: out of the work/tasks/directions around here though, what interests you? I get it that conversation and general interaction with actual people is (naturally!) what you want and like most, sure; anything other though that speaks to your interest(s) more seriously?
21:38 jfw diana_coman: not sure specifically, I had heard the usage perhaps in older sounding text, looked it up at some point
21:38 diana_coman oh huh, older sounding text; I can see what you mean; and gah, I'll feel 83 again.
21:39 jfw if speaking well makes you feel old, I can't help there :P
21:40 diana_coman jfw: ahahah; and I thought you had some wrecked schedule to set back on track :P
21:40 diana_coman (but no, it wasn't a request for help at all; simply a statement of a fact.)
21:41 jfw diana_coman: I do, though keeping up was part of it.
21:44 diana_coman jfw: heh; you're always welcome of course.
21:45 jfw :)
21:45 diana_coman lobbes: did I lose you somewhere?
21:47 lobbes diana_coman: nah I'm here. processing
21:48 lobbes diana_coman: The tmsr os work interests me because I think it could help me improve my overall computer literacy. Plus I think the dorion/jfw combo has some chance of bringing in money (the republic is indeed lacking profit centers). I would like to help out in that aim in some capacity
21:49 diana_coman so always-very-rational-apparently, you know?
21:49 lobbes plus, I am interested in continuing improving my current things (the auctionbot, mp-wp bot)
21:51 lobbes diana_coman: what do you mean? Isn't being rational a good thing?
21:51 diana_coman at any rate, I suppose dorion_road would be rather happy to hear there's one man more rather than less; and the project certainly has both a huge need for people and a lot of potential, yes.
21:53 diana_coman lobbes: heh, it's ... not the only thing, it never can be, that's all.
21:54 diana_coman lobbes: what do you make in the end of the lordship and castle thing anyway?
21:54 diana_coman (if you prefer re rational, there's always that "too much of a good thing".)
21:55 lobbes diana_coman: hm, idk if I fully grok your rational point yet (but I will ponder it in parallel)
21:56 lobbes diana_coman: re: lordship castle thing, can you expound a bit?
21:57 diana_coman lobbes: here, to help you re that rational point; note the apparently in there too.
21:57 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-18 14:06:12 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-18#1002885 - because you were going at it on *one leg only*; in short, you knew what you needed to do but you didn't care to do it and both those things matter, you can't just cut one out and pretend that the other takes over both functions.
21:57 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-12 17:57:02 diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know?
21:59 * lobbes reading thread
21:59 diana_coman lobbes: you went this year back and forth through "I'd rather give up lordship"/ "no, I wouldn't"; "I'm better off as a knight" / "ugh, I like being a lord"; "I have/will make a castle since I'm a lord"/"wouldn't quite ask for a deed for it, hmmm"; what do you reckon now exactly, regardless of labels?
22:06 lobbes diana_coman: ah now I gotcha. Yes, I was quite concerned about all that until MP underlined the turns concept for me and I re-read his article
22:06 ericbot (trilema) 2019-09-25 mircea_popescu: it'll benefit the nooblets immensely if they seriously spend some time groking the "turn" thing. there's a time for everything ; and for most things that time isn't NOW.
22:06 lobbes so now I'm just focusing on improving; not trying to care about labels
22:07 lobbes because the label is just a pointer to someone who does things anyway
22:08 diana_coman well, the label is either a burden or a recognition, depending on where you actually are.
22:08 lobbes makes sense
22:08 * diana_coman has literally told a uni prof "your saying that I'm a professor now does NOT make me a professor!!"
22:09 diana_coman he was shocked, lol.
22:09 lobbes lol, I bet
22:10 lobbes diana_coman: brb need to answer a saltmine call
22:10 diana_coman lobbes: all right, ping when you're back.
22:17 lobbes diana_coman: okay, I'm back
22:18 diana_coman lobbes: wb; anyways, I think I got at least a better picture of you after all this, so here's to some clarity.
22:19 diana_coman lobbes: listen, there's also that old promised series - whatever happened to that?
22:19 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-14 05:05:52 diana_coman: lobbes: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/the-next-phases-of-escape/?b=wasting&e=#select - fwiw, it's very aptly put but also very sinful; one of those things for which you'll really have to do penance if you haven't done it already.
22:19 diana_coman 3 months, look at that.
22:19 lobbes diana_coman: you got me on that one
22:19 lobbes ahem :P
22:21 lobbes diana_coman: I was trying to focus 100% on getting the mpwpbot out, but now I have time so I'll make a plan to get that article written
22:21 diana_coman lobbes: there's no such thing, no.
22:24 diana_coman lobbes: listen, if you want on, I'm willing to try and help you; I gather you are fine with that pledge because you will need it, yes; and it will take some closer reporting & follow up by the looks of it.
22:25 lobbes diana_coman: yeah, this is a point on the putting off the article. There really isn't such a thing as '100% focus' on anything
22:26 lobbes diana_coman: I would be honored, and if you are willing to help then I am willing to learn (also willing to take pledge)
22:27 diana_coman lobbes: well, for starters the 100% on ONE thing is more of a luxury rather than anything and a. it's not all that productive really b. rather rare in practice.
22:28 lobbes this is true
22:29 diana_coman lobbes: all right; then start by writing out your plan for next week on yh by this Sunday; feel free to write some review of your time in tmsr so far too, it will be rather instructive I'd think; for next week you certainly have at the very least 1. a penance article of those long-ago-promised 2. concrete plan re figuring out the ebuilds; with time & deadline too, please; and start actually measuring your time at least for starters, ...
22:30 diana_coman ... to figure out what is going on for real as opposed to what seems to be going on.
22:31 diana_coman lobbes: moving forwards, it would seem to me that atm you are rather staying where you are; and as such, you should then at least give some thought to actually making the most of that; so I'd expect some of that to show in your plans - if not for next week, then for the week after.
22:31 diana_coman as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too,
22:32 diana_coman lobbes: any questions there? or anything else?
22:33 lobbes diana_coman: understood, and I will do so. I'll probably spend time re-reading our convo and linked threads/etc. If I have further questions I will let you know
22:33 lobbes diana_coman: and thank you again for this help, I do appreciate it
22:33 diana_coman lobbes: cool; and you're welcome.
22:38 jfw I think I'm hearing a decision there among the "I will if you will"s so congrats both & welcome aboard lobbes!
22:39 diana_coman oh huh, is it not clear? hm, lobbes, is there something unclear?
22:43 lobbes ty jfw!
22:43 lobbes diana_coman: all clear on my end
22:44 diana_coman lobbes: cool then.
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