Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-10-28 | 2019-10-30 → ↓
14:19 diana_coman ossabot got a maintenance reset to stop logging #pizarro and start logging #trinque ; since I was at it, I've added for now the tiny .ico pics too so no more broken icons; if only all the rest was as easy to un-break as this.
14:19 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-28 18:28:34 PeterL: diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log I get broken picture icon for "young hands" and "ossasepia" at the top of the page, is that expected?
~ 30 minutes ~
14:50 whaack diana_coman: i'm finishing the saltmines grind that i began yesterday today & half of tomorrow. (i don't consider it #1, it's just easier for me to get it over with at the beginning of the week) i will then prioritize fixing my understanding of the selection tool & write a post examining the root cause of why i use power tools without rtfm first. That being said, I want to make sure that I am taking my V post in the right direction
14:50 whaack . My thesis for the post is that prior to V, the SOP for deploying was, in V terms, to _always_ regenesis. I am then using that thesis to discuss the importance of context for text/software.
15:04 diana_coman whaack: saltmines schedule/packing is fine; re V post, I don't quite see what you aim at there; I suppose you could look at it as "software had no traceable/recoverable/verifiable history at all" but it's rather a stretch to say there was any sort of genesis as genesis/regenesis already implies some V concepts that simply did not exist.
15:05 diana_coman I can understand why you might be looking for a neat description of previous state to help you structure & discuss but that doesn't mean you can just force-fit anything on some flimsy basis of similarity.
15:06 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I plan to start actively maintaining #agriculturalsupremacy if you are inclined to point a logger at it
15:07 diana_coman BingoBoingo: oh hey, not-bad; mind publishing a post re the what and how of that? I'd love to read it and I'd certainly point the logger + move the bot to it
15:07 PeterL whaack: before v was written it was possible (and it still is) to do the steps by hand to verify authenticity of patches
15:08 diana_coman also, BingoBoingo , trinque, lobbes why won't you *ask* MP for a license for your castles? if anything, this was my only initial hesitation re adding the chans - it would make more sense to have them licensed, no?
15:08 diana_coman PeterL: v is not just an implementation, what the ever loving fuck!
15:09 PeterL well, yes, I meant before the first v implementation
15:09 diana_coman PeterL: and pretty please, go and write your thesis on the topic on your own blog before confusing newcomers, will you?
15:09 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I will ask for the license after getting the mission statement, J-school course proposal done. Depending on what surprises today has it should be 18-48 hours.
15:09 diana_coman BingoBoingo: great to hear that! and I'll read it whenever it's ready
15:10 whaack diana_coman: You're right, I guess genesis is a bad term. Because a genesis explicitly states that there is no prior context, whereas old state was just "here's a clump of software"
15:11 diana_coman PeterL: myeah, you meant the first implementation as if *that* is meaningful there at all; go and write, ask for feedback, do some work first, it's not that hard.
15:11 diana_coman whaack: and moreover genesis is now a V term-of-art.
15:12 PeterL sure, I will write something re v to my blog
15:12 diana_coman PeterL: go ahead.
15:16 diana_coman PeterL: note also that this sort of in-here-but-not-quite-in-here won't end up well; make up your mind and either commit properly or lurk in there in silence as I won't have you or anyone else talk over people who actually committed and are busy at work, wtf.
15:16 whaack diana_coman: right. My point is to describe the previous state in terms of V. "hey, if you're just checking the sig on a package and nothing else, that's pretty similar to building just a genesis patch with V. and the only way you can be sure your software is from a trusted source is if you download one big clump that includes the whole enchilada: os, compiler, ect"
15:18 diana_coman whaack: note that there is also the diff re checking the sig on a binary package or a source package, at the very least; I'd say figure out (and possibly restrict as needed) your scope there well, as it can easily end up a huge scope to cover; not to say the exploration itself won't be useful to you, but be aware of what you're looking at in there.
15:20 diana_coman PeterL: and for completion, the application 2-steps process applies to you just the same as to any newcomer (if anything, due to do-nothing history, you start with a minus compared to them).
15:24 whaack diana_coman: i am aware of the diff re checking sig on binary or source, i am treating the 'previous state' as the protocol where one signs the source or at least zip of the source (although i admit this is often not the case for 'teh industry')
15:26 diana_coman whaack: and moreover, even if there is a sig, there is in fact no identity attached to it because no wot (and see how this expands your scope all of a sudden? because yes, everything is related, ofc); recall the github and "sig" or "verified" thing?
15:27 diana_coman whaack: tbh I'd say that the previous field was basically so muddled up that it's not really sane or worth it to try and approach it in such a clean way - it's more likely only to muddle you up than anything else.
15:27 diana_coman I need to go for a bit, I'll be back in an hour or so.
15:29 whaack diana_coman: although i'm sure the layman way is to download the pub key seconds before its used for verification, people could be building software in the 'old paradigm' with only keys from their wot
15:30 diana_coman whaack: if you go with "could be" then they could be building v, sure; except they don't, and going with "could be" is really wishful thinking if not worse.
15:30 * diana_coman will bbl
15:39 whaack diana_coman: for when you get back, the tools were in place for a seekrit society to have an internal wot. gpg says 'who dafuq is this?' when you import a new key. in other words, if all you see around you in your neighborhood are people 'hammering in nails with microscopes', you can still inference with reasonable probability of being right that somewhere in the world someone is studying microbes, seeing as you know that there doe
15:39 whaack s in fact exist a microscope.
~ 57 minutes ~
16:36 diana_coman whaack: that doesn't hold, no; having gpg key is not at all having microscope; it's more like having lenses perhaps; and if you go that route, you can equally say neandarthalians ALSO had microscope (and secret societies and V, why not) because look, sand hence silica everywhere, hence lenses, hence microscope, hence etc)
16:44 diana_coman whaack: you can say it the other way around ie the above V is not just an implementation : sure you can have your wot and a manual "V" and so on, yes; but the direction is always from having first the concepts to using them with whatever tools available, no inference holds the other way around precisely because concepts&knowledge are more than one-or-another mechanical ...
16:44 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-29 12:13:17 diana_coman: PeterL: v is not just an implementation, what the ever loving fuck!
16:44 diana_coman ... tool, those are not just equal parts.
16:51 diana_coman whaack: if you really must, you can perhaps look for proto-practices that could be traced as some sort of ancestors of V (as nothing quite appears entirely out of nowhere either) but I'm not all that sure that pays off or really helps you a lot there.
17:01 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-28#1007844 << thank you. I'll be ready, looking forward to it.
17:01 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-28 17:04:23 diana_coman: dorion: re footnotes 1 and 2 - it's totally fine, no worries; and it does the job well too, we'll talk tomorrow evening.
17:09 lobbes http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-29#1007867 << I plan to ask for a license, though atm I am 100% focused on meeting my Nov 3rd deadline for mp-wp-bot delivery. Will apply for castlehood once that passes
17:09 ericbot Logged on 2019-10-29 15:11:03 diana_coman: also, BingoBoingo , trinque, lobbes why won't you *ask* MP for a license for your castles? if anything, this was my only initial hesitation re adding the chans - it would make more sense to have them licensed, no?
17:11 lobbes but in general I agree, you don't know until you ask
17:11 ericbot (trilema) 2019-10-04 mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
17:11 * lobbes is guilty of operating under this "assume first" mode before; never serves well
17:15 diana_coman indeed it never does.
17:21 jfw Hi diana_coman. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-28#1007845 - confused on this; are you saying the estimates were sane but not sane enough, or the tools too insane for estimating to even be possible, or what?
17:21 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-28 17:55:20 diana_coman: jfw: "At least for one stage Robinson guessed 1.5h, I guessed 7, both ran way over" - ahahaha, this is good for the quotes collection. The sad part of it though being of course that both of you have in fact sane (and experience-revealing, hence the difference) estimates for what the whole thing should be; but there's not enough sane around for the estimates to work even when tempered by some experience.
17:24 diana_coman jfw: his estimate was that of a sane but inexperienced person expecting a sane environment; it's reasonable to expect to be able to install that in 1.5 hours, what, it shouldn't take a day, a week, a lifetime; your estimate was equally sane but tempered by your experience with computers - obviously more than 1.5hours but still something more or less manageable; nevertheless, the environment being rather insane, it didn't fit into any ...
17:24 diana_coman ... sane estimates whether padded by experience or not.
17:25 diana_coman jfw: does that make sense?
17:30 jfw yep, ty.
~ 59 minutes ~
18:29 dorion diana_coman standing by, fyi, but also no rush as my schedule is dedicated to our convo this afternoon.
18:31 diana_coman dorion: in about 40 minutes.
18:31 dorion cool, ty.
~ 42 minutes ~
19:14 diana_coman dorion: I'm here though on apparently rather rocky net connection all of a sudden (so if I vanish, you'll know UK is worse than Panama)
19:16 dorion diana_coman heh, thanks for the heads up. where ought we start ?
19:17 diana_coman dorion: do walk me through that mud first: how did you two actually end up in #o ?
19:17 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-27 18:26:07 diana_coman: dorion: you'll have to explain to me tomorrow that pull because in the end between the two of you pulling/pushing one another, it's all as clear as mud who did what here.
19:19 dorion well, jfw entered after interaction with lobbes.
19:19 diana_coman that doesn't sound like you pulling both , lol
19:20 dorion I came to realize it wasn't just about developing programmers (although I'm not opposed to understanding tech at a deeper level).
19:21 diana_coman oh my, if I ever start "developing programmers" do me a favour and shoot me.
19:21 dorion well, the pulling dates date further, prior to #o. since 2015 or so.
19:22 dorion we'd been back on forth about attempting to motivate ourselves/each other to speak up, which then was overcome by this july.
19:22 diana_coman dorion: good, so start from there: from your outlines I gather you heard something related as early as 2013/2014; what was that and how/why did it click only in ...uhm, 2019.
19:24 dorion well, in 2013 (iirc) there was THE conference and evoorhees and mjr (josh rossi (satoshi square at the time), who moved to panama and worked for coinapult) attended
19:25 diana_coman heh, might be a different THE conference around those parts but go ahead.
19:25 dorion they mentioned it offhand, back then the learning curve was much much steeper for my window-head.
19:25 dorion diana_coman there's a pic on trilema, title is about conspiracy theories.
19:26 diana_coman but as in what, "there's that weird Romania country" or what? I can't quite imagine exactly what-other-than-mp would get mentioned at a bitcoin conf about Ro, lolz
19:26 dorion as in mp hosted.
19:26 diana_coman dorion: yep, there is; voorhees attended a btc conference, yes
19:27 dorion s.dice was still in action, I believe.
19:27 diana_coman ah, so it was along the lines "been there too"?
19:28 dorion it wasn't stressed by them for the importance that is was, or at least I didn't infer the importance.
19:28 diana_coman I rather expect it was them preferring to not "notice" the importance but nevermind
19:29 dorion coinapult people were more apt to discuss/reference reddit/twitter , etc.
19:30 diana_coman ugh; that's the other thing: how on earth did you stay there that long?
19:30 diana_coman (and myeah, I'm not surprised at all)
19:30 diana_coman at their "reference" I mean
19:31 dorion as far as my own latency post coinapult, i.e. since 2015, I was opened up to essentially a whole new world , not only technically, but politically the latter being more challenging at first.
19:32 dorion you see, I was deep down the rabbit whole of libertarism/anarchocapitalism, i.e. rule, but no rulers.
19:33 diana_coman dorion: ah, I see.
19:33 dorion this was primarily driven from material from stefan molyneux (freedomainradio.com).
19:34 dorion he made an attempt at universal ethics, a book called universally preferrable behaviour, which aims to universalize the non-agreesion principle.
19:34 diana_coman fwiw with all of you referencing this guy + that shiff, I did go and try to read them but barfed rather quickly.
19:35 dorion his primarily focus is on self-knowledge, the family, childraising, which I swallowed whole and acted on.
19:36 dorion I can see your barf, so you perhaps can see me finding tmsr from the other side.
19:38 diana_coman so how did it go with tmsr/the logs: was it you or jacob finding them? was it you or jacob deciding it was important? then the trouble speaking up - what are/were your main hangups?
19:38 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-29 16:27:29 dorion: we'd been back on forth about attempting to motivate ourselves/each other to speak up, which then was overcome by this july.
19:38 diana_coman (and yes, attempting here among other things to put together your picture from the other side)
19:39 dorion right now I don't have any hangups, this past week or so has been quite healthy/invigorating.
19:40 diana_coman glad to hear it :)
19:41 dorion the hangups were a self-perpetuating cycle: started in the freeze lobe of fight/flight/freeze response
19:42 dorion this is important, but I imagine/assume my past is 'sewage in the wine'
19:43 dorion I'll do work on the side to apply what I've learned from the reading (which I've done), but talk 'tomorrow'.
19:44 diana_coman (I noticed you wrote that in the outlines re your past but that's a bit silly really; we'll get back to it in a bit and clarify)
19:44 dorion then there was the excuse that jfw ought to join too. i'll wait for him to be ready. instead of getting in which'd caused him to get in.
19:46 dorion which is what eventually happened, but quite late. so there is some scar tissue to work through, but what've my 20s been if not several deep transformations.
19:47 dorion diana_coman it's clear as day now how silly it has been, but when amygdala is hyperactive, cortex has less influence.
19:47 diana_coman dorion: you see, that's the thing, when you say "my past" you forget that it includes not only coinapult and assorted similars but also all your own growth and following your own mind and finding your feet from what I gathered from those outlines
19:48 diana_coman heh, yes; listen, I'm not trying to find fault or assign blame; just to fully figure out where you are.
19:49 dorion right, I dove head first into some relatively risky ventures on a lot of faith; not to mention turmoil in personal relationships; had me in a gun shy loop.
19:50 dorion I don't "regret" going for it when i did, I accept that's who I was and was making the best decision I knew of at the junctures.
19:51 diana_coman dorion: all right, so you pushed jacob first; and kept reading from the side; bought those fg and still not saying anything; then finally jacob said something, got via lobbes here and then?
19:51 diana_coman (good for you, there's absolutely no point to regrets)
19:52 dorion diana_coman then I was prioritizing installing trb on the rockchip, manaloning (while bouncing some ideas of jfw) as it were.
19:53 diana_coman avoidance via trb, lolz
19:53 dorion with #t and piz going dark, seemed I'd be noise during the fire fighting.
19:54 diana_coman and I thought you were the manager there!
19:54 dorion then avoidance by mp-wp
19:54 diana_coman heh
19:54 dorion I'm manager by necessity, not because I'm a master or have even been trained by masters, quite the contrary in fact.
19:55 diana_coman eh, where would one find masters now really
19:55 dorion in #o
19:55 diana_coman you have a ton of smarts basically
19:56 * dorion stumbling on some humble response
19:57 diana_coman dorion: still, jacob had to pull/push for you to join; why or what was that?
19:58 dorion final shreds of 'mediocity being intellengence aimed at self-preservation'
19:59 dorion s/intellengence/intelligence/ lol
19:59 diana_coman lol, ok; what was exactly this that you read enough ?
19:59 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-16 16:32:57 dorion: diana_coman ok. I've read enough to know I want in.
20:00 dorion your conduct in general and this log in particular. the patience, but assertiveness.
20:01 diana_coman so you read the full log or what?
20:01 dorion conduct as read from #t and your blog. I've not read #e
20:01 dorion I didn't read the full #o log, but enough to trust.
20:02 diana_coman #e at the moment is quite quiet; and at any rate, the talk there is more eulora-play than anything else otherwise.
20:02 dorion as I'd gathered from various peaks.
20:04 dorion (i've not gone silent, just don't have more to add at present on this point)
20:05 diana_coman dorion: you said somewhere (and can't find atm the ref but if you don't recall, I'll look for it) that you invested in the strong tech arm - that seemed to be however jacob so I'm a bit confused there
20:05 diana_coman what exactly is this current business of yours?
20:07 dorion the strong tech arm is I've improved my skills/understanding through working with jfw and been patient (perhaps pathologically) with the time it was taken.
20:07 diana_coman (and re patience, see no patience with idiots lolz)
20:07 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-18 16:57:25 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-18#1002972 - ftr, I do NOT advise newcomers to believe this; there is also for instance the very short life of Bubico Garson (aka zmk) http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-07-29#1925422
20:09 dorion the current business is a training program + hardware and software. the motto is personal sovereignty through digial security. our target clients know this is important, don't know where to start, but are willing/able to invest in their education/skills.
20:10 diana_coman dorion: and how is it structured, are you two equal partners there or what? is it just you 2?
20:11 dorion so far none have had prior command line experience, so that's were were start them. over 25 90 minute sessions + homework, they develop system admin skills, compile the entire system, including coreboot, openbsd on edgerouter, then work on trb, gpg, etc.
20:11 dorion it's the two of us and we're equal partners.
20:12 diana_coman all right; what would be the longer trade relationships?
20:12 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-22 18:08:41 diana_coman: jfw: what trade is that meant to be re "longer term trade relationships"? more/further training or what?
20:13 dorion essentially, jfw has the technology and curriculum development development and training ; I have sales, admin, and working on my training skills.
20:13 diana_coman dorion: put that way, you need a 3rd person to do management, lolz.
20:15 dorion the idea is there we will reach a threshold of resourceful people that trust us at which point we can develop further business with them rather than continuing to focus on noobs. for example, panama has a somewhat deep btc-tide dollar otc market, but many rely on whatsapp to coordinate.
20:16 dorion you need a 3rd person to do management << i guess it's telling I didn't list that as my primary responsibility, but that's on me too.
20:16 diana_coman dorion: why/where from this single focus on running an exchange basically? (it's not necessarily bad, just ...not the only thing)
20:17 dorion panama also has a history of privacy/asset protection that has been substantially undermined and many are resentful of the undermining, but don't know how to proceed.
20:18 diana_coman so you basically say that you have there a good market for that, right?
20:18 dorion right.
20:19 diana_coman ok; did you ever read hanbot's posts (as MPOE-PR) on bitcointalk? canonical ref
20:20 dorion we're not fixed on exchange idea, but seems logical that once we get clients comfortable with trb and trusting us, we'd be central in that network.
20:21 dorion I've read many mpoe-pr posts, the one that always cut the deepest was 'talking about Bitcoin now matter how loud, does not make you part of Bitcoin'
20:22 dorion it would be good to do another review, proper this time via my blog.
20:22 diana_coman yes, it might even work; honestly, I have no concrete idea re panama and otherwise just this rather iffy-smell of "where clueless moneyed wannabee so-called-bitcoiners congregate"; but you are the ones there and to the extent that you do find actual people to build up, there's nothing a priori wrong with it or anything of the sort
20:23 diana_coman and btw, what's, how was it called... "bitcoin embassy" in panama?
20:24 dorion there are a lot of wannabees , give off get rich quick negative signal to the relatively high class circles , we're aiming to create a new market for the higher class, not deal with derps.
20:25 diana_coman good and quite glad to hear it in clear.
20:25 dorion that bitcoin embassy shit down, maybe last year, I don't know was never involved and the operators ran into legal trouble with there related business I hear.
20:26 diana_coman well, I never heard of any actual related business but anyways, lol.z
20:27 dorion when I started with coinapult, I'd talk, after getting burned I decided I need to sit down stfu and understand. but that became habit I'm now replacing.
20:27 diana_coman as usual, balance is rather more productive, yes.
20:28 dorion the business was cryptobuyer.com , that oneway machine in the panama makes me ill article , the machine that only buys dollars, lol.
20:28 diana_coman and it's out of them or something, yes.
20:29 diana_coman dorion: you mentioned some accounting course for which you didn't quite study though - did you still complete it or what's the status there?
20:30 dorion I didn't complete it, I have all the books. It's chartered financial analyst, level 1.
20:30 dorion it's a global, independent organization. there are 3 levels to receive the charter.
20:31 diana_coman and with the reading of management stuff - did you already go through MP's public experience or what are you aiming for there?
20:32 dorion I didn't have a good plan there and it covers quite a bit, including topics that're mainly relevant to fiat fianance, e.g. gaap.
20:33 diana_coman I don't know what gaap is.
20:34 diana_coman as I was saying earlier, the Master in Management is MP really, I claim no real management title for myself.
20:34 diana_coman dorion: anyways, what/how do you think I can help you?
20:35 dorion MP's public experience has made many impressions, but I can't say I've gone through it systematically (no blog was a real problem). this drucker book, 'management: task, responsibilities, practices' is an encyclopedia and I've found many of the points drucker makes MP makes as well.
20:36 diana_coman (sounds reference-style book so possibly not-bad; at any rate, it won't be difficult to get a list of refs for you from people who know more, surely)
20:36 dorion diana_coman I accept my mind needs to be sharpened, and you're the sharpener.
20:36 dorion http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-15#1006468
20:36 ossabot Logged on 2019-10-15 23:36:16 dorion: diana_coman as for why I'm here: to sharpen myself for sound money and sane computing.
20:37 diana_coman dorion: funnily enough with you, if anything, I'd need to ask you to stop beating yourself *that* much black and blue, lolz
20:37 dorion I want my blind spots exposed and rectified to become more complete and stronger version of myself.
20:37 diana_coman beating your stupidity out of you is fine and good but breaking your own arms in the process is not that great
20:37 dorion hahaha. well that's a blind spot then!
20:38 diana_coman I'll end up making dorion-rule: thou shall *not* covet another man's thrashing!
20:38 diana_coman those are made to measure so what's yours will be your size, no need to fit someone else's,lol
20:39 dorion hahaha. I'll follow that rule.
20:40 diana_coman dorion: part of it is that you tend/try to read so much in advance as to what it-could-possibly-fully-be that you may end up anywhere really, kind of hard to tell upfront.
20:40 dorion you see, going through the review it dawned on me that part of my log reading was a form of masochism.
20:41 diana_coman or are you trying to beat yourself first before another one has the chance? lolz
20:42 dorion diana_coman right, after enthusiastically leaping x 2 , a protection mechanism developed and jfw's 200 ft of solid rock further contributed.
20:43 dorion as much as we've helped each other, there's also been a shared dilusion.
20:43 diana_coman well yes, can't know what you don't know, sure.
20:44 dorion it was something like beating myself up prior to anyone else being able to. but I'm ready to work to let that go.
20:44 diana_coman dorion: you keep mentioning in your posts the coyness /inner coyote; what is this really about?
20:44 diana_coman dorion: aha, that's exactly what it looked like.
20:46 dorion mp has been using coy somewhat frequently recently, so it was fresh, but dates back to generally having a somewhat shy side.
20:47 dorion no surprise that usian childhood is so very artificial and unhealthy.
20:47 diana_coman well, I had such a extremely healthy childhood that I can't quite comment there, lol
20:47 dorion when I was younger, I mostly made friends through sports, where I was strong.
20:48 diana_coman and how does this coy/shy apply here?
20:49 dorion well primarily taking me such a long time to speak and exacerbated by the 'inner bully'.
20:51 diana_coman eh, speak, there's nothing worth keeping that you might lose just for the speaking; quite the opposite
20:52 diana_coman (and in fact the whole world to lose for keeping silent)
20:54 diana_coman dorion: say something.
20:55 dorion digging for a link, 1 sec.
20:56 dorion item iii. of http://trilema.com/2014/time-for-some-bitlicenses-of-our-own/ perhaps lead me to believe otherwise. but I should've asked rather than assumed.
20:57 diana_coman dorion: ahahaha, trilema-articles have lots of keys.
20:57 dorion perhaps more accurate to say my own stupidity lead me to believe otherwise
20:58 diana_coman dorion: but as with all other things, context is important of course; ie "speak" doesn't mean "say anything anywhere to anyone"
20:58 dorion I knew the key, but then was derping with the select on number iii which is tough since the repetition.
20:58 diana_coman it just means speak your mind clearly and openly when it's your turn.
20:58 diana_coman dorion: lol!
20:59 dorion diana_coman i think lack of context made lead it to making a deep impact I didn't understand.
21:00 diana_coman I can see how that could happen; what's with the Junto, does this overlap with your training/clients?
21:01 dorion but your clarification and further context I've since gathered makes sensee.
21:03 dorion the Junto was started among jfw and another friend here for mutual improvement, back in January 2018. distill and deliver valuable information to the group and excercise the communication muscles. it has since grown to 7 regulars and yes, 3 have become clients.
21:04 diana_coman good old human networking, what else; good for you.
21:04 dorion we were doing weekly up until summer, but have backed off to twice a month. we focus for two hours, then go for a meal/drinks.
21:05 diana_coman dorion: where are you as relationships with all the coinapult/similar former crowd?
21:07 dorion I've not keep up very much. I visited my friend Ashe in denver in 2017, saw Justin Blincoe there (coinapult coo/cfo turned shapeshift cfo), scored a free lift ticket from erik to a-basin, but didn't see him.
21:09 diana_coman that's not saying a lot either way; what do you think is/was the problem there anyway?
21:10 dorion I think the problem is they're aiming for the masses rather than elite. think bitcoin can/will/is for liberating poor. so they push fast-food technology.
21:11 dorion and operate as fiat companies primarily.
21:11 diana_coman dorion: so if tomorrow they magically agree with you to "aim for the elite", the business will work?
21:12 dorion the problem is they're not reading trilema seriously, think they know better.
21:12 diana_coman eh, how do you know they don't read it seriously or how do you even evaluate that?
21:13 diana_coman and what, they are hm, fine, enough money, serial entrepreneurs, all that, no?
21:13 dorion I don't know what would work and to what extent their reputation is damaged. but say evoorhees asks for !!up tomorrow in #t .
21:13 diana_coman aha, say he does.
21:14 dorion I evaluate there actions and what I can see, and as i type the negative space comes to mind.
21:14 dorion their*
21:14 dorion if he does, seems it depends on how the conversation goes, what causes are being acted from.
21:16 diana_coman dorion: the trouble is that people are what they are, each of them; just like there are no causes that can really transform a chicken into a hawk, there are also no causes that can possibly transform one from serial entrepreneur in fiat system to bitcoin independent mind
21:17 dorion i shouldn't say that they're not reading, cause I don't know. but I ask why was erik pushing segwit 2x in 2017 instead of linking to trilema and being present in the forum ?
21:17 diana_coman there might be those (and esp young ones) that are still searching and so end up in all places, it's not about where one has been but simply about what one does in a given situation
21:18 dorion diana_coman letting these sink in over here.
21:18 diana_coman dorion: because he is fully invested in that system, in a nutshell; it would be way too costly for him to "read trilema" in the way you mean it.
21:22 dorion I can see that. s.dice wasn't though and I'd wager shapeshift equity is smaller in his portfolio than btc proper, but he did catch the altcoin bug, which when I met him he was a 'maximalist', 'there can only be one.'
21:25 dorion whatever is going on in his brainbox, I can't control ; I'm not bitter nor have ill will. what I can and must control is my brainbox and acting from what I understand to be true, which I want to do better.
21:26 dorion the problem could be rooted in ESLism for all I know.
21:26 diana_coman dorion: eh, you have quite some learning to do for evals; at any rate, I don't wish on you that you end up at some point in the middle before you got to figure out clearly with whom you'd stand if need be, that's really the cause of the question.
21:29 diana_coman dorion: to ask it perhaps in a easier-to-answer way: what/how strong is still their current pull on you?
21:30 dorion diana_coman as in, if someone asked them about me, what'd they say ? oh, strike that I see, 'with whom I'd stand'. yes, I'm here committed to learning to act correctly.
21:31 dorion I've not kept up with them much. most I've not spoken with in a couple years.
21:32 dorion this is also what I ment by investing with jfw. and why I'm here.
21:33 diana_coman not like there's any interdiction on speaking to them or anything; the question is more whether you still find what to actually talk with them (other than generic chitchat really) if in the same room and if you are sure you'd rather be here than there.
21:34 dorion both in #o and panama. the former to strengthen myself and add whatever value I'm capable of giving back to tmsr.
21:35 diana_coman dorion: all right then, I think you had enough grilling and fair warning; I'll gladly take you on and I'll set you up on yh by the end of this week for sure.
21:35 dorion if/when i do talk to them, i'd be more about curiosity as to why they've not engaged rather than see what opportunities there'd be for me to fit myself into their system.
21:35 diana_coman dorion: you still have the series of posts so I think that'll keep you quite busy for now
21:35 dorion diana_coman I'm honored. and it was a pleasure.
21:35 * jfw been following, cheers
21:35 diana_coman are you all right to plan those now?
21:36 dorion diana_coman I'll ask as soon as I find myself stuck.
21:36 diana_coman dorion: heh, good idea
21:37 diana_coman jfw: I saw you added a comment but I didn't yet get time to read it, I'll get to it in a bit but ask me here if there's something you need for this week's tasks
21:39 * dorion fist pumps.
21:39 diana_coman dorion: welcome! and have fun.
21:39 dorion and jfw let's make a real cheers soon.
21:40 jfw diana_coman: mostly I listed the planned steps for writing, such as they are; certainly interested in your critique when you get the chance, doesn't have to be this minute tho.
21:41 * diana_coman looks
21:42 * dorion looking forward to the re-read, as in actual read, here.
21:43 diana_coman jfw: acutely missing from there is the perspective aka something to guide your structuring
21:44 diana_coman so you'll likely end up spending until Thursday/Friday reading forever more and accumulating notes/whatevers since there's always more to read/grab/do/avoid-thinking-of-the-ugly-how-the-fuck-do-I-do-this
21:46 diana_coman jfw: do me a favour and start not with archeology but with your own original goals and troubles and so on; you already know both the story and the ending there, so chart first the structure of how you're going to tell this and only *after that* and *at writing time* search for the needed references
21:46 diana_coman jfw: how about that?
21:48 jfw sounds more productive, yes
21:49 diana_coman jfw: so aim for an outline by tomorrow evening the latest, the actual writing Thurs/Fri, review Saturday and you're done
21:49 jfw alright
21:49 diana_coman you'll be fine, there's more rock under your foot than you imagine :)
21:50 * diana_coman will be back tomorrow
21:50 jfw thanks, cya!
~ 1 hours 46 minutes ~
23:36 * BingoBoingo has come to believe the "non-aggression principle" is the doom of that sort of crowd. It means they are doomed to suffer the stupid seeking to burden them.
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