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search trilema search all chans

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00:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1343 @ 0.000079 = 0.1061 BTC [-]
00:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00099493 = 23.9778 BTC [+] {2}
00:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
00:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.5 = 5.5 BTC [+]
00:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00099036 = 3.4663 BTC [-]
00:33	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.0009918 = 2.0828 BTC [+]
00:35	moiety	!up benkay`
00:35	assbot	Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
00:35	benkay`	thanks moiety
00:35	moiety	nw :)
00:36	benkay`	cowen on piketty: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141218/tyler-cowen/capital-punishment
00:37	benkay`	"Last year, the government of the Republic of Cyprus imposed the equivalent of a tax on bank deposits, only to see the tax contribute to, rather than reverse, the island’s economic struggles."
00:38	benkay`	would someone please explain precisely what contributions to struggle the Cypress bail in caused to me?
		~ 41 minutes ~
01:20	bitcoinpete	Piketty: “there is no natural, spontaneous process to prevent destabilizing, inegalitarian forces from prevailing permanently.” <<destabilizing permanently is super contradictory
01:21	bitcoinpete	"The three decades between 1950 and 1980 were truly unusual; the constellation of economic and demographic variables that produced prosperity during that period will probably not be re-created anytime soon." <<pretty much
01:23	bitcoinpete	And I know MP caught my article earlier today, so for the rest of you:
01:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00099036 = 4.4566 BTC [-]
01:23	bitcoinpete	http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/consumerism-the-great-equalizer-the-legacy-of-the-french-revolution/
01:23	ozbot	Consumerism: The Great Equalizer – The Legacy of the French Revolution | When Bitcoin Met Pete
01:25	bitcoinpete	;;later tell mircea_popescu you make a good point about the last line. as students of history, we ain't forgettin' shit. i'm tempted to re-write it but then your comment wouldn't make any sense. it did feel a bit off as i wrote it...
01:25	gribble	The operation succeeded.
01:25	artifexd	!up benkay`
01:25	assbot	Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
01:27	HeySteve	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-21/riders-storm-fictional-letter-explaining-what-going-russia
01:27	ozbot	"Riders On The Storm:" A Fictional Letter Explaining What Is Going On In Russia | Zero Hedge
01:28	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.0009893 = 23.3475 BTC [-] {3}
01:36	bitcoinpete	More Piketty: "The simple fact is that large wealth taxes do not mesh well with the norms and practices required by a successful and prosperous capitalist democracy. It is hard to find well-functioning societies based on anything other than strong legal, political, and institutional respect and support for their most successful citizens."
01:41	BingoBoingo	jurov: RE: Powdered alcohols
01:41	BingoBoingo	http://www.google.com/patents/US3795747
01:43	bitcoinpete	cheers for now!
01:45	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51299 BTC [+]
01:57	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.50000001 = 1.5 BTC [-]
01:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1052 @ 0.0001344 = 0.1414 BTC [+]
01:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 212 @ 0.0046469 = 0.9851 BTC [+] {6}
02:00	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 943 @ 0.00013444 = 0.1268 BTC [+] {2}
02:05	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.044879 = 0.1346 BTC [+]
02:06	BingoBoingo	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/
02:11	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.51360264 = 12.8401 BTC [+] {4}
02:12	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51687744 = 2.0675 BTC [+] {4}
02:13	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5254 BTC [+]
02:14	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0048197 = 0.241 BTC [+]
02:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3549 @ 0.0009907 = 3.516 BTC [+]
02:16	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: the amounts in that article are staggering
02:17	moiety	o.o i didn't know thats where Josh spawned from
02:19	fluffypony	asciilifeform: that Cardano prototype is REALLY pretty!
02:20	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 101 @ 0.00478 = 0.4828 BTC [-]
02:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15833 @ 0.00098833 = 15.6482 BTC [-]
02:33	fluffypony	"Takes poker. It’s a game which is also an adult activity due to the money involved." <- broke my brain
02:34	HeySteve	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23ni1c/psa_of_bitcoin_scam_by_operators_of/
02:37	fluffypony	HeySteve: looks like it's been refunded: https://blockchain.info/tx/d1fb2e48a5c4ff458e50f425a1f5d9c073cbf59cbaec5fb04bc3cb85511ba23f
02:37	fluffypony	probably just slipped through the cracks
02:37	fluffypony	I've bought a couple of things on CryptoThrift, not blown away by the site but it seems to be a lot better than BitMit
02:37	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00098833 = 20.8043 BTC [-]
02:38	HeySteve	ah that's good to know :)
02:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00098833 = 7.5607 BTC [-]
02:40	HeySteve	BitMit's closure sucked
02:41	fluffypony	BitMit sucked in general
02:41	HeySteve	I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets...
02:41	HeySteve	at the time, the only alternative was CoinGig
02:42	fluffypony	ja
02:42	fluffypony	best way is to get buyers to rate you on the WoT as well
02:42	HeySteve	yeah but where and how is WoT hosted?
02:43	fluffypony	;;later tell moiety did you get your free Denarius from CryptoWimmins yet?
02:43	gribble	The operation succeeded.
02:44	fluffypony	HeySteve: you'd have to ask nanotube for details, but with the vested interest from all parties in the WoT it isn't going anywhere
02:46	HeySteve	sure, it's open source and the data is easily copied, so I guess it could be mirrored easily enough
02:46	fluffypony	yep
02:46	fluffypony	https://github.com/nanotube/supybot_fixes
02:46	fluffypony	looks like it's SQLite
02:47	fluffypony	so very easy to re-host if necessary
02:48	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0659999 = 0.198 BTC [+] {3}
02:51	HeySteve	right, well I'd very much like to speak to nanotube in any case, in relation to my project
02:51	dexX7	do you know any legit website which allows to sign raw transactions after providing the rawtx + privkey? nothing fancy and the less overhead the better
02:52	fluffypony	dexX7: afaik blockchain.info has rawtx support
02:52	nanotube	HeySteve: fluffypony: fyi, can grab the db files for backup here: http://bitcoin-otc.com/otc/ and the code for the plugins is here https://github.com/nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/
02:52	fluffypony	nanotube:)
02:53	nanotube	dexX7: you don't want to provide privkeys to any website. :P use a local client.
02:53	HeySteve	hey nanotube, thanks :)
02:53	nanotube	:)
02:53	dexX7	bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing
02:54	HeySteve	nanotube, may I have a word in private?
02:54	fluffypony	dexX7: sign offline and then push?
02:54	nanotube	HeySteve: sure
02:55	dexX7	that's the plan fluffypony. and i'm looking for a way to sign with a minimal setup. like a very simple website + js or similar
02:56	fluffypony	dexX7: are you looking to automate it or do it manually?
02:56	dexX7	actually i'm writing a tutorial for
02:56	dexX7	http://redeem.bitwatch.co
02:56	ozbot	Redeem multisig txs
02:57	fluffypony	oic oic
02:57	fluffypony	ok so then can't you use blockchain.info to push it once it's signed?
02:57	dexX7	signing via bitcoind is simple but i'd like to cover more ways
02:58	dexX7	pushing via bci works of cource but the tx needs to be signed first
02:59	dexX7	something like http://brainwallet.org/#tx where you only need to input an unsigned tx + privkey (unfortunally this does not work with brainwallet.org for whatever reason)
03:03	fluffypony	brb breakfast
03:14	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00098866 = 3.5592 BTC [+] {2}
		~ 23 minutes ~
03:38	dignork	dexX7: don't want to beat a dead horse, but puting anythin + privkey into browser is a bad idea, unless for some reason you run it on an oflline machine
03:39	dignork	s/oflline/offline hate mornings
03:42	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00450101 = 0.4861 BTC [-]
03:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 65 @ 0.00450018 = 0.2925 BTC [-] {2}
03:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50851001 BTC [-]
03:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 215 @ 0.00449994 = 0.9675 BTC [+] {3}
03:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 23 @ 0.0045 = 0.1035 BTC [+]
03:56	fluffypony	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vykJwKfXnpw
03:56	ozbot	Keith Saltojanes: WTF Is Bitcoin - YouTube
03:57	*	fluffypony chuckled
04:05	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52538 BTC [+]
04:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00098833 = 12.6506 BTC [-]
04:08	jurov	<davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D
04:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00098994 = 31.8761 BTC [+] {3}
04:24	BingoBoingo	http://www.libressl.org/
04:24	ozbot	LibreSSL
04:26	fluffypony	lol
04:26	fluffypony	of course Comic Sans
04:26	fluffypony	"This page scientifically designed to annoy web hipsters. Donate now to stop the Comic Sans and Blink Tags"
04:28	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6678 @ 0.00099122 = 6.6194 BTC [+] {2}
04:37	BingoBoingo	fluffypony: If you hate comic sans so much why even have it installed?
04:38	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: please point to the part of the sentence where I said I hate it
04:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]
04:55	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.00403551 = 0.2139 BTC [-] {5}
04:56	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00431648 = 0.1338 BTC [+] {2}
05:00	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 23 @ 0.50132825 = 11.5305 BTC [-] {6}
05:06	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.029 = 0.435 BTC [-] {2}
05:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00099175 = 31.9344 BTC [+] {2}
05:12	HeySteve	here is that article I mentioned: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/sorcerer-hiva-oa-paul-gauguin-available-90000-btc/2014/04/22
05:14	mircea_popescu	lol so gigaom is promoting coindesk ? oh how very surprising.
05:16	mircea_popescu	HeySteve dude wtf, 45mn seriously ?
05:16	mircea_popescu	when has gauguin ever sold for 40mn ?
05:17	mircea_popescu	http://www.artnet.com/artists/paul-gauguin/cylindre-au-christ-à-l-idole-b4sGfNf9LAv7N214A3Uq6A2
05:17	mircea_popescu	there, buy a copper dildo he made for ... 20k usd.
05:18	mircea_popescu	Te Po sold for what, half a mil or w/e
05:18	HeySteve	it's a tremendous sum
05:18	mircea_popescu	!up rabite
05:18	assbot	Voicing rabite for 30 minutes.
05:18	mircea_popescu	HeySteve it's laughable.
05:18	mircea_popescu	!up sunshyne
05:18	assbot	Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
05:19	HeySteve	however, that value was estimated in one of the linked stories I believe
05:19	HeySteve	involving the NFL star's ponzi scheme
05:19	mircea_popescu	i mean i guess the idea is that bitcoiners are so fucking rich and clueless that they have no idea what's what, so they may throw 100k btc on something worth 1% of that.
05:19	mircea_popescu	god knows they've been doing it with all the ipos
05:19	mircea_popescu	HeySteve i tell you i dun see it. i estimate it to be worth in the 90-190 btc range. now what ?
05:19	HeySteve	well, I don't expect it will sell for bitcoin, more likely for USD if they get their price (which may be lower than their asking)
05:20	mircea_popescu	i'll bet you it won't sell for 40mn usd or equiv.
05:20	HeySteve	well it's worth what people will pay for it I guess.
05:20	HeySteve	heh I don't know enough about fine art to want to take that bet
05:20	HeySteve	I'm just reporting what the seller's agent told me
05:21	HeySteve	still, anything above 12 million would make it the most expensive thing offered for btc to my knowledge
05:22	mircea_popescu	HeySteve don't get me wrong, i'm not laying into you personally or anything
05:22	mircea_popescu	jus... doing the topic justice as it were.
05:24	Naphex	morning
05:24	HeySteve	sure thing, I think many people will have questions at that price especially considering the piece's history
05:24	mircea_popescu	Naphex hey
05:24	HeySteve	hi
05:26	fluffypony	I started a blog that I'm aiming to update extremely sporadically and only when I particularly feel like it
05:26	fluffypony	http://blog.spagni.net/posts/2014-04-22/
05:27	HeySteve	fluffypony I get a server not found error in FF
05:27	fluffypony	HeySteve: oh new CNAME, may not have propogated yet
05:28	fluffypony	although it is multicast so I dunno, ZA DNS providers are just slow and stupid
05:31	cazalla	loads here
05:31	mircea_popescu	HeySteve good sign your isp is an asshole.
05:31	mircea_popescu	prolly runs you through crappy local dns servers
05:32	HeySteve	given the stability of my connection, I'd say it's confirmed they are
05:32	fluffypony	HeySteve: who you with? mwub?
05:33	HeySteve	yeah fluffypony, although problem could also be on telkom side
05:33	HeySteve	mircea_popescu I found another of his oil paintings going for nearly $10 mil
05:33	fluffypony	HeySteve: when the wind blows or it rains our connection goes down, welcome to Africa
05:33	HeySteve	http://www.findartinfo.com/search/listprices.asp?keyword=17524&name=Paul-Gauguin
05:33	ozbot	Art auction result for artist Paul Gauguin. Free art prices
05:33	HeySteve	fluffypony, yep had a lightning strike and it's been erratic ever since.
05:34	HeySteve	phone call interrupts connection but only rings once, etc. very tedious.
05:34	fluffypony	we had that, and it turned out that our splitter thingy was bust, Telkom tech just replaced it
05:35	mircea_popescu	fluffypony you ever seen white cat/black cat ?
05:35	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: nope/
05:35	mircea_popescu	great somalian film. in it there's a scene where old woman can't talk on cellphone
05:36	mircea_popescu	sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything)
05:36	mircea_popescu	fixes her problem.
05:36	fluffypony	LOL
05:36	mircea_popescu	film also has interspersed scenes of a hog eating a trabant
05:36	mircea_popescu	if you know what those are.
05:37	fluffypony	like the car?
05:37	HeySteve	fluffypony, don't think it's the splitter, got a new one. think water is getting in the line somehow
05:38	mircea_popescu	yep
05:38	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: wife is East German, so I've learnt about a lot of that stuff, especially from her grandparents
05:38	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.00699967 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}
05:39	fluffypony	her grandfather (maternal) was a professor of economics, incredibly gifted man, who is now suffering from dementia
05:39	fluffypony	it's quite sad because he'll have these flashes when we've been talking about Bitcoin where he'll understand everything and comment with incredible depth
05:39	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00024999 = 0.125 BTC [+]
05:40	fluffypony	and then five seconds later forget how to eat properly
05:40	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.519998 BTC [+]
05:41	mircea_popescu	"We would also let you know that a letter is also attached to your package. However, we cannot quote its content to you via E-mail for privacy reasons. We understand that the content of your package itself is a Bank Draft worth $800,000.00 USD; in FedEx we do not ship money in CASH or in CHEQUE but in Bank Drafts only."
05:41	mircea_popescu	logical.
05:41	mircea_popescu	fluffypony that sucks.
05:43	cazalla	how old is he fluffypony
05:43	cazalla	my opa died last year, his dementia dragged on for about 5 years
05:44	fluffypony	cazalla: 75
05:44	mircea_popescu	!up Rick__
05:44	assbot	Voicing Rick__ for 30 minutes.
05:44	fluffypony	shame that sucks
05:44	Rick__	looking for arji
05:44	cazalla	seems young, my opa was 94
05:44	Rick__	ask about my money
05:44	fluffypony	cazalla: yeah he has it quite young
05:45	mircea_popescu	;;seen arij
05:45	gribble	arij was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <arij> pLambert, yes, pm me
05:45	cazalla	according to 23andme, it's my highest risk disease too
05:45	fluffypony	:/
05:45	fluffypony	I live in fear of that
05:46	mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic what's crypton do ?
05:47	cazalla	i don't tbh as i'm still relatively young and by the time i'm old, perhaps there will be a cure
05:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 60 @ 0.00179766 = 0.1079 BTC [-] {2}
05:49	fluffypony	cazalla: true that
05:51	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00099382 = 6.3108 BTC [+] {2}
06:03	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0118 = 0.1062 BTC [-]
06:07	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0655 = 0.1965 BTC [-]
06:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14074 @ 0.00098819 = 13.9078 BTC [-] {3}
06:18	mircea_popescu	oh for the love of all that's holy.
06:19	mircea_popescu	so there's this romanian rap band, bug mafia. it exists since the 90s, it was one of the first in the sense someone in bitcoin since 2010 is "one of the first". they're to this day the best by a very very fat margin.
06:20	mircea_popescu	then one day i use one of their lines as a title for a post, and i get the #1 spot by morning.
06:20	mircea_popescu	google is racist, basically.
06:23	fluffypony	yeah but wouldn't your competition be lyrics sites?
06:23	mircea_popescu	they have their own official site and everything. problem is, they don't have much english support on the web, being.. you know, a romanian language band.
06:24	mircea_popescu	this would be the definition of racism : 10 units of e + 1 unit of r is more than 0e + 100 r.
06:24	fluffypony	ah
06:24	fluffypony	I wonder if your post would show up first for Romanian language results
06:25	mircea_popescu	problem is [most] everyone in romania uses english google
06:25	mircea_popescu	(and english kbds, for that matter)
06:25	fluffypony	ah
06:25	Naphex	mircea_popescu: BUG Mafia, you repping mircea?:p
06:25	fluffypony	quite unlike the Germans who won't use it if it's not in German
06:25	mircea_popescu	because w/e, romanians were liek teh first on the internet.
06:25	Naphex	always tought you a Parazitii man
06:25	mircea_popescu	fluffypony exactyly the opposite yeah
06:25	mircea_popescu	Naphex i actually like them both. which i guess is somewhat rare.
06:26	mircea_popescu	fluffypony as far as romanians are concerned, the 90s were spent going "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, does it suck ?
06:26	mircea_popescu	maybe that's starting to fade, but defo hasn't yet.
06:27	mircea_popescu	Naphex btw, this is what you've missed : http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/
06:28	Naphex	next year
06:28	mircea_popescu	cool
06:29	Naphex	had my own party this weekend, chilling and doing nothing at all :)
06:29	mircea_popescu	kinda rthe idea
06:29	mircea_popescu	some peeps' first encounter of the proper european lunch, where you spend a few good hours with your food.
06:30	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 924 @ 0.000135 = 0.1247 BTC [+]
06:31	fluffypony	it's the only way to eat
06:31	fluffypony	it should almost blend into supper time, so you top it off towards the evening without needing to eat an entire other meal
06:32	mircea_popescu	either that or move to drinking.
06:32	fluffypony	yep
06:34	mircea_popescu	a btw, to bother everyone : local isp just unveiled its easter surprise w/e.
06:35	mircea_popescu	200mbps. 19euro.
06:35	bounce	glass? symmetric?
06:35	mircea_popescu	glass yeah. no, you get like 1/8 that ul.
06:35	mircea_popescu	you can get it symmetric, but it's not really useful or needed for most end users.
06:36	Naphex	mircea_popescu: in oradea Tesari/RDS has Fiberlink 1G/s at 59RON
06:36	Naphex	~16USD
06:36	mircea_popescu	AND they will layer it for you. you can get 1tbps both ways in this country, and it won't break your bank.
06:36	fluffypony	jealous.
06:36	mircea_popescu	Naphex lol
06:37	*	fluffypony looks at his 4mbps connection currently syncing at 2.4mbps
06:37	mircea_popescu	fluffypony yeah. ppl are liek... "how come romania?!?!" and i'm like... dude, how long you got ?
06:37	fluffypony	heh
06:39	mircea_popescu	Naphex oradea is like rds homebase is it ?
06:39	Naphex	yep
06:39	mircea_popescu	better juice closer to the plant :D
06:39	Naphex	it started here, with TVS (The TV network)
06:40	mircea_popescu	actually upc arguably started as astral, which you know... got started by the father of a chick i was doing back in hs
06:40	mircea_popescu	he hated me.
06:40	Naphex	hehe
06:40	bounce	it doesn't really make sense to throttle the uplink on glass, though. it's likely just throttled gigabit.
06:40	Naphex	is there no RDS in TM?:)
06:41	bounce	good for the gamer kids though, "low ping"
06:41	mircea_popescu	Naphex sure there is.
06:41	mircea_popescu	bounce they save on gear upstream is all.
06:41	mircea_popescu	see, for instance, the whole town is full of fiber spools hanging from poles
06:41	mircea_popescu	because rather than buy the cutter they just don't cut it.
06:41	mircea_popescu	spool it up, stick it in the box.
06:42	bounce	like you're ever going to take it out and put it somewhere else. even so, throttling the uplink doesn't really buy you much of anything, hardware wise
06:42	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00098533 = 7.8826 BTC [-]
06:43	mircea_popescu	no, but it does bw wise.
06:43	mircea_popescu	romania could, on the basis of end user installed gateways, nuke the rest of hte planet off the internet
06:43	mircea_popescu	and... it would.
06:44	Naphex	its true :)
06:44	mircea_popescu	just imagine you have something like 10mn customers doing 1gbit uplink each
06:44	mircea_popescu	and now find me a peer that'll relay this.
06:44	bounce	depends on how the transit agreements work. some places actually liked generating more bandwidth "the other way", as it pushed the balance a bit more towards evening out
06:46	mircea_popescu	so basically, if they actually allowed the uplink they'd have to have a filtering datacenter.
06:46	mircea_popescu	cheaper this way.
06:47	mircea_popescu	(and even if it isn't, i'm pretty sure that's their rationale)
06:51	mircea_popescu	;;later tell bitcoinpete you're #10 on a google search for "bitcoin pete". while your twitter acct is #1.
06:51	gribble	The operation succeeded.
06:51	mircea_popescu	google is racist : it will push profiles in twitter BUT NOT facebook. it will push wikipedia articles.
06:52	mircea_popescu	basically it has a shortlist of websites that it gives preferential treatment to.
06:52	mircea_popescu	curious how long till the lolsuit.
06:52	Naphex	they have been doing that for ages
06:52	Naphex	twinking PageRank for domains
06:52	Naphex	that that product split with Google Now / Google
06:52	Naphex	then they merged together in the current version, which will always have preferential PageRank
06:52	mircea_popescu	Naphex but see, that's the snag : they used to do it as a per-domain page rank thing.
06:53	mircea_popescu	meanwhile they took that out,
06:53	mircea_popescu	and simply replaced with a handwritten list, either our friends or everyone else.
06:53	Naphex	yep you get filtered down and placed in a bubble
07:00	mircea_popescu	benkay`:
07:00	mircea_popescu	not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years. << so you had brosex.
07:01	mircea_popescu	"Bringing Cryptocurrency To Women Worldwide, CryptoMoms.com Launches" ahaha how fucktarded can you get.
07:01	mircea_popescu	the better women aren't moms, yo.
07:03	mircea_popescu	http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=100 << bash #100. qft.
07:06	mircea_popescu	HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets... << which is why wot.
07:07	mircea_popescu	dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing << there's a reason for this. you shoulodn't be providing privkeys.
07:08	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yeah that's exactly what I said
07:08	mircea_popescu	yeah i see
07:08	fluffypony	although tbh I don't know why sites like that and BTCJam etc. don't just integrate with the WoT
07:08	fluffypony	instead of reinventing the wheel (and doing so badly)
07:09	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 58 @ 0.00743106 = 0.431 BTC [+] {2}
07:10	HeySteve	mircea_popescu, quite so. I spoke to nanotube about integrating WoT with a cryptocurrency
07:10	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00750003 = 0.18 BTC [+] {2}
07:10	mircea_popescu	HeySteve i don't follow ? the wot is integrated with any cryptocurrency as it is. i can and have rated people for say... atc deals.
07:11	mircea_popescu	fluffypony because idiocy.
07:11	HeySteve	sure, but putting the identity and associated ratings into a blockchain
07:11	HeySteve	been working on this for a while
07:11	mircea_popescu	fluffypony and in the case of btcjam, because they know they're running a scam platform. it'd make no sense to take any steps that make this more obvious than it actually is.
07:12	mircea_popescu	HeySteve so like a sort of a db backup maintained distributedly ?
07:12	HeySteve	yep that's it
07:12	mircea_popescu	i know nanotube was working on a wot 2.0 that'd be distributed and not depend on him
07:12	mircea_popescu	seeing how he's all old and frail and will eventually go.
07:12	HeySteve	and associating costs with establishing an identity and rating people may improve the system slightly
07:13	HeySteve	I have a further idea to incentivise non-scammy behaviour too
07:13	mircea_popescu	no.
07:13	mircea_popescu	incentives do not belong in the wot.
07:13	mircea_popescu	gotta keep it separated
07:14	HeySteve	hmm, why do you say that?
07:15	mircea_popescu	why do i say what ?!
07:15	HeySteve	<+mircea_popescu> incentives do not belong in the wot.
07:15	mircea_popescu	because the wot is the measure of how people respond to incentives, it makes no sense to change its neutrality to add incentives for particular responses.
07:16	Apocalyptic	can't agree more
07:17	HeySteve	ah. well as I see it, bad behaviour leads to negative rep which makes future trades less likely and the inverse is true. that's how I use the term incentives.
07:17	mircea_popescu	that's exactly how it works now.
07:17	HeySteve	right, but my idea is to augment that
07:18	mircea_popescu	let me make this point clearer through an example. suppose i go to a village in somalia. this village has 100 people and they're all normal people, they do good and bad things by w/e definition of good and bad.
07:18	mircea_popescu	i own more money than the entire village is worth, a million times over.
07:19	mircea_popescu	so i say to these people : each day you only do good deeds, you will receive your average yearly income. but for every bad deed you do, you get fined x% of that.
07:19	mircea_popescu	now, this obviously will make everyone do nothing but good deeds (presuming rational actors),
07:19	mircea_popescu	but it will also make it impossible for women to pick mates.
07:19	mircea_popescu	because... well... what the fuck, everyone's doing good deeds whether they're good men or not.
07:20	mircea_popescu	and so through incentivising good behaviour i managed to... break the wot.
07:20	mircea_popescu	once i leave that village is fucked.
07:20	mircea_popescu	and now you also understand why western aid ruins africa.
07:21	fluffypony	incentivised ratings also opens the incentives themselves to Sybil attacks, no?
07:21	mircea_popescu	exactly.
07:22	fluffypony	all I need to do is create a number of fake actors and claim they only did good deeds today (each fake actor supporting the other) and I receive average yearly income * the number of fake actors I've created
07:23	HeySteve	sure, but in the WoT there is no cost to create sockpuppets
07:23	mircea_popescu	exactly.
07:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.52420746 = 26.2104 BTC [+] {11}
07:23	HeySteve	right, to register an identity within this system there would be a BTC cost
07:23	fluffypony	HeySteve: yes
07:24	fluffypony	but spotting the sockpuppets is easy
07:24	mircea_popescu	HeySteve this counterintuitively makes your system weaker.
07:24	fluffypony	HeySteve: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/
07:24	mircea_popescu	because the cost is not a discouragement to the sybil, if it has a way to turn a profit
07:24	fluffypony	followed by: http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/
07:24	mircea_popescu	but it IS a discouragement to the legit members.
07:24	HeySteve	fluffypony I have studied that article in some depth
07:24	mircea_popescu	and so through adding a cost you're actually skewing it towards scammers.
07:25	mircea_popescu	this is much ampler discussed in this older article : http://trilema.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/
07:25	HeySteve	well, I want to make the signup cost vastly more expensive than the cost of earning rep through good behaviour
07:25	fluffypony	so then you're chasing away legitimate users
07:25	mircea_popescu	this does not speak to the problem.
07:26	fluffypony	I won't pay to use the system when there's a perfectly good free one I'm already on :-P
07:26	HeySteve	heh well, I hope we can satisfy such concerns and build something useful
07:26	HeySteve	appreciate discussing it with people who understand the WoT in depth
07:26	mircea_popescu	HeySteve understand tho : this is not quite unlike solid state physics, or radioastronomy.
07:27	mircea_popescu	i can respect your desire to build a better process for refining hahnium, or for resolving doppler aberrations in telescopy.
07:27	mircea_popescu	nevertheless, these are not tasks of the same nature as mowing the lawn.
07:27	Naphex	while we're talking incetives, any opinion on a good referral system for bitcoin exchange users?
07:28	mircea_popescu	Naphex referrals markets is a TOTAL mess in btc.
07:28	fluffypony	Naphex: what do you mean? like an affiliate-style system?
07:28	mircea_popescu	bitbet has a very sweet one, and it's barely used.
07:28	mircea_popescu	that's actually one major thing to do. yo fluffypony what did you do for a living ? or cazalla ?
07:29	Naphex	some customers keep asking for one
07:29	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: one of the directors of a small group of companies, of which OpenRigs is a part
07:29	Naphex	more like just rewarding users for inviting other users
07:29	mircea_popescu	someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank
07:30	fluffypony	agreed
07:30	*	fluffypony puts it on his list of future projects
07:30	mircea_popescu	affiliate advertising is going to be major in this space, and currently it's way the fuck nowhere.
07:32	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52898999 BTC [+]
07:33	Naphex	well i was just thinking, rewarding inviters with 0.0001 upon each withdrawal by an invitee
07:33	Naphex	some incentive there o.o
07:33	fluffypony	Naphex: I've seen some REALLY good affiliate systems that do very small lifetime rewards
07:34	fluffypony	eg. for every referred customer you get 2% of their fees forever
07:34	Naphex	along the lines where i was thinking:P
07:34	fluffypony	small enough that the guy referring one or two customers won't care
07:34	Naphex	but we run 0% comission soooo :)
07:34	fluffypony	but at scale it's amazing
07:34	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
07:34	fluffypony	Naphex: so your fees are withdrawal only, no trade fees?
07:35	Naphex	no trade fees, some fees at withdrawal fiats, and 0.0001 at BTC withdrawal
07:35	Naphex	fees for fiat withdrawal are basic bank fees
07:36	fluffypony	are you priming the system to attract an audience before raising fees, or are you just very altruistic company?
07:36	fluffypony	:-P
07:36	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you there ?
07:36	Naphex	fluffypony: we are raising fees at some point
07:37	fluffypony	Naphex: it's going to be tough to incentivise affiliates without that, rock and a hard place scenario
07:37	HeySteve	perhaps I'm being thick but I don't see how http://trilema.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/ applies to blockchain WoT. Nigerians pic made me lol though
07:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 265 @ 0.00084295 = 0.2234 BTC [+]
07:38	mircea_popescu	HeySteve it applies to the problem of putting a cost on the user.
07:38	mircea_popescu	fluffypony the romanian expression is "suntem pe investitii"
07:38	Naphex	:))
07:38	HeySteve	well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble
07:38	mircea_popescu	to translate this, some history : romania was a communist country. to get it on a capitalist system, anyone not fucktarded enough was simply given money, from the state.
07:38	mircea_popescu	yes, just like that.
07:39	mircea_popescu	if you had any sort of a clue and could talk the talk of business, you just got money.
07:39	mircea_popescu	exactly the way i handle btc, incidentally. just don't sound like the lumpens and you'll be okay.
07:39	mircea_popescu	this resulted in all the moral hazard you might expect, but also into the most fiscally stable country in europe, and with stores of physical gold per capita well above everyone else
07:40	mircea_popescu	one of the edge cases of that moral hazard were idiot "business men" who thought they actually have a clue, but in fact were products of a fortunate environment like that.
07:40	mircea_popescu	notably, some of these magnates "invested" in media.
07:40	mircea_popescu	their investments fared about as well as neobee's, a few degrees of magnitude larger.
07:41	mircea_popescu	one of the best examples is a fellow known as varanul, ie dan voiculescu
		↖ ↖
07:41	Naphex	hehe
07:41	mircea_popescu	this schmuck was given something to the tune of a few bn usd, and ten years later he had to have a very embarassing 100mn sent to him in the middle of the electoral campaign,
07:41	mircea_popescu	because he was out of fucking money.
07:42	mircea_popescu	think about it, you give a schmuck 1bn and legal immunity, you'd fucking expect he can pay you 100mn a year for the rest of all eternity.
07:42	mircea_popescu	not this guy tho.
07:42	mircea_popescu	and not the only example, either.
07:42	mircea_popescu	and hence, the "suntem pe investitii" expression, which is what said idiots said about their media "empires", for 3-4 years
07:43	mircea_popescu	"we're in investment mode"
07:43	fluffypony	crazy
07:43	mircea_popescu	then suddenly they ran out of money, the bottom fell out of the market, and the 20-30k or so idiots who really thought there can exist such a thing as a "career in media" upon the basis of which they could like... take bank loans and buy houses and cars
07:44	mircea_popescu	discovered they have to suck my cock for a soup each day they wish to eat a soup.
07:44	fluffypony	sounds like that 17 year old "CEO" from the other day
07:44	mircea_popescu	not so far off. one of the schmucks made petrom, which is exactly copied after bp
07:44	mircea_popescu	even to the logo.
07:45	dexX7	<mircea_popescu> someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank < what is a clickbank?
07:45	mircea_popescu	rompetrol im sorry not petrom
07:45	Naphex	which got sold off tooo OMV in early 2006
07:45	fluffypony	dexX7: affiliate marketplace, basically
07:45	mircea_popescu	dexX7 this is where we google ?
07:46	mircea_popescu	Naphex check that shit out, they evenb have the entire coin* bit* issue going
07:46	mircea_popescu	im confusing rompetrol and petrom like i'd confuse bitfuck and fuckcoin
07:46	dexX7	oh i assumed you made this word up
07:46	mircea_popescu	anyway. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/ROMPETROL.png << rompetrol ; http://www.edmundburkeinstitute.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Bp.jpg << bp
07:47	fluffypony	lol
07:50	mircea_popescu	anyway, to close that up : perhaps the most lucid of thoise 20-30k idiots is a fellow named cristi parvan. this guy http://www.parvan.ro/
07:52	mircea_popescu	si pentru cine cunoaste, http://trilema.com/2011/particip-la-ronewmedia-60/#comment-99026
07:55	Naphex	i never read blogs, or cared much about them
07:56	Naphex	where are you pulling this guys out of O.o
07:56	Naphex	:D
07:56	mircea_popescu	you see, i had an intel department for years before i found bitcoin
07:56	mircea_popescu	overnight success is the result of fortunate coincidences like that.
07:56	mircea_popescu	!up hansi001
07:56	assbot	Voicing hansi001 for 30 minutes.
07:58	Naphex	mircea_popescu: running intel on what?:p
07:59	mircea_popescu	well yes.
08:02	mircea_popescu	<HeySteve> well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble << more like an intellectual cost. this is good, because idiots don't manage to figure out how to do it, which serves us and them.
08:02	mircea_popescu	replacing that with a financial cost only works if you live in a functioning market economy,
08:02	mircea_popescu	which is an economy in which the government accounts for 1% or less of the gdp
08:05	mircea_popescu	!up awrelll
08:05	assbot	Voicing awrelll for 30 minutes.
08:06	HeySteve	I hear what you're saying about the IQ barrier of GPG. we don't aim to replace that, only add to it
08:06	awrelll	FixmypcRO here
08:06	mircea_popescu	aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience.
08:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098645 = 12.8239 BTC [+]
08:09	mircea_popescu	awrelll mircea_popescu> aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience. << this was for you.
08:09	davout	hi all
08:10	kakobrekla	heya
08:10	fluffypony	davout: bonjour
08:10	HeySteve	hello
08:11	Naphex	hey
08:11	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: home safe?
08:12	davout	Naphex: i was a little disappointed to not see you in timisoara
08:12	Naphex	davout: i would've come but it was all out of VIP tickets
08:12	Naphex	hehe
08:12	Naphex	its only a 1.30 -> 2h drive to there
08:12	Naphex	but next year
08:12	awrelll	salut, nu am inteles foarte clar ce anume cauti, eram interesat de o colaborare in caz ca sunt potrivit
08:12	davout	next year might be quite a longer drive :-)
08:13	mircea_popescu	awrelll you speak english ?
08:13	awrelll	i do
08:13	mircea_popescu	cool. so. tell me about your experience as an affiliate manager.
08:14	Naphex	bit of a stage fright there i figure
08:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4462 @ 0.00098645 = 4.4015 BTC [+]
08:15	awrelll	i am not sure if i qualify, i wanted to know more about this, sorry if i am wasting your time
08:15	ThickAsThieves	hello folks
08:15	Naphex	hey o/
08:15	davout	ThickAsThieves: hi
08:15	mircea_popescu	well basically the idea is i need someone with significant experience.
08:16	ThickAsThieves	i've got some catching up to do
08:16	mircea_popescu	jesus they voice everyone in here these days. ThickAsThieves when did you get out!
08:17	ThickAsThieves	just woke up after catching up on personal life and sleep
08:17	ThickAsThieves	<+fluffypony> ThickAsThieves: home safe? /// i think the airport gifted me a cold
08:17	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: that's the worst :/
08:18	ThickAsThieves	we'll see if it takes full form
08:18	mircea_popescu	mpoe-pr got one too.
08:18	ThickAsThieves	for now just an itchy nose
08:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]
08:22	Naphex	so how'd you guys enjoy Romania?:)
08:23	davout	Naphex: Romania is very nice
08:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06434114 = 0.193 BTC [-]
08:23	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]
08:23	Naphex	did mircea take you out to see the vampires and cheeky girls ?:)
08:25	ThickAsThieves	Romania was enjoyable
08:25	ThickAsThieves	pretty, walkable
08:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-]
08:25	ThickAsThieves	no vamps tho
08:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}
08:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6374 @ 0.00098529 = 6.2802 BTC [-] {2}
08:27	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.52892571 = 3.7025 BTC [+] {2}
08:28	ThickAsThieves	;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central, puts the french back in the fries
08:28	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user davout has been recorded.
08:28	ThickAsThieves	;;rate kakobrekla 3 pumps the #bitcoin-assets blood, bitbet
08:28	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
08:29	asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: no vamps tho << should've gone with me on expedition at night. i flushed out the wild dog packs that i -knew- existed.
08:29	ThickAsThieves	;;rate asciilifeform 3 makes stuff for No Such lAbs, intellectual and storyteller
08:29	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.
08:30	davout	asciilifeform: did they accept you as their new leader?
08:30	mircea_popescu	lol
08:31	asciilifeform	davout: i was too big. they were all little beagles, other miniature animals
08:31	davout	asciilifeform: it's not the size, it's the smell that counts :D
08:32	asciilifeform	funny these beasts - the dogs 900km east, of my childhood, were active in the day.
08:32	ThickAsThieves	;;rate mircea_popescu 3 MPEx and other businesses, a most reliable voice of reason
08:32	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 3.
08:33	asciilifeform	other phun phact - the weirdo allergies i suffered since 1995 shut off like a light bulb when i landed in Ro.
08:33	asciilifeform	me sorry carcass hates teh 'new world.'
08:34	mircea_popescu	most us allergies are allergies to the us.
08:34	asciilifeform	i suspected that this was literally true, for my own case
08:34	asciilifeform	now, know.
08:34	ThickAsThieves	;;rate mike_c 3 Making cool stuff yet to be seen by the masses, ATC supporter
08:34	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
08:34	mircea_popescu	i just wonder if large scale gmo will also yield some mutant hay fevers
08:35	mircea_popescu	maybe you can get bubonic hay fever
08:35	asciilifeform	whatever the crud is, it gives me problems year round here.
08:35	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.52979 = 5.2979 BTC [+] {2}
08:36	mircea_popescu	a nerdier man would have brought home air samples.
		↖
08:36	mircea_popescu	spectrometry ftw!
08:36	mircea_popescu	!up rammy2k2
08:36	assbot	Voicing rammy2k2 for 30 minutes.
08:36	rammy2k2	hey
08:36	rammy2k2	salut mircea_popescu
08:36	rammy2k2	:)
08:36	mircea_popescu	hi.
08:36	davout	"a nerdier man would have brought home air samples." <<< lmao
08:37	mircea_popescu	davout im kinda curious what the difference'd be.
08:37	asciilifeform	lol, could be something more interesting (washington too close to equator by x km; magnetic field crapolade; etc)
08:37	mircea_popescu	course you need a pretty large air sample to get anything usable at the ppb range
08:37	mircea_popescu	;;google washington dc latitude
08:37	gribble	Latitude and Longitude of U.S. and Canadian Cities | Infoplease.com: <http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001796.html>; 107 World cities by latitude: Things line up in surprising ways: <http://www.priceoftravel.com/1063/107-world-cities-by-latitude-things-line-up-in-surprising-ways/>; List of cities by latitude - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (1 more message)
08:38	davout	mircea_popescu: the air sample thing kinda contradicts the discussion about how some stuff could be developed to work only in certain places, maybe that's the case for allergies too
08:38	mircea_popescu	38 5377 02 vs 45.7597° N, 21.2300° E
08:38	asciilifeform	hell knows, maybe i need 50hz mains hum instead of 60.
08:38	asciilifeform	that's the problem with systems.
08:38	mircea_popescu	but that wouldn't reallhy be an allergy.
08:38	mircea_popescu	kinda need a protein
08:39	davout	asciilifeform: just be pragmatic, move to romania, there's this beagles pack that patiently awaits its master's return
08:39	ThickAsThieves	;;rate jurov 3 CoinBr, Coinroll, helped me transfer shares at times, kept me safe during a Bitfunder scare
08:39	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 1 to 3.
08:39	asciilifeform	lul, me canine army awaits.
08:39	mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 you speak english ?
08:39	rammy2k2	for shizzle
08:39	rammy2k2	sure
08:39	mircea_popescu	cool. so tell me about your aff manager experience ?
08:39	asciilifeform	;;rate jurov 1 live human!!
08:39	gribble	Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
08:40	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform gribble had a glitch so it went offline so it lost auth sessions
08:40	rammy2k2	well, i've been working in adult industry for some years, affiliates , dunno if it applies on what u need, but i was curious :)
08:40	ThickAsThieves	is wao's handle wao?
08:40	mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 adult works. who've youy been working for ?
08:40	asciilifeform	;;gpg eauth asciilifeform
08:40	gribble	Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7
08:40	Naphex	rammy2k2: you run bitcoin-romania.ro forum? right same rammy?
08:41	rammy2k2	Naphex: yes :)
08:41	rammy2k2	i try to
08:41	rammy2k2	:P
08:41	Naphex	hey o/
08:41	rammy2k2	\o
08:41	Naphex	get SSL working in that :)
08:41	asciilifeform	;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:be89bf44d68bee3cb3c28e4fe995f38c33062d50324afe88a6a293b4
08:41	gribble	You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7
08:41	asciilifeform	;;rate jurov 1 live human!!
08:41	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user jurov has been recorded.
08:41	mircea_popescu	i guess you two have some business to conduct ? :D
08:41	rammy2k2	mircea_popescu: streamate, money tree, chaturbate
08:41	mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 when, for how long, gimme some highlightds
08:42	asciilifeform	;;rate mike_c 3 live human, cellular automata, jolly good fellow
08:42	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
08:42	rammy2k2	mircea_popescu: i quitted adult like 1 year ago, since i got seriously into this disease called crypto
08:42	rammy2k2	worked for like 5 years
08:42	mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 when you started adult is more interesting. who were you on gfy ?
08:43	rammy2k2	yes
08:43	rammy2k2	still am
08:43	rammy2k2	:)
08:43	mircea_popescu	who ?
08:43	mircea_popescu	same handle ?
08:43	Duffer1	hello
08:43	rammy2k2	seXXXhub
08:43	mircea_popescu	Duffer1 hey
08:43	asciilifeform	;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 live human, ate synthetic food, jolly good fella
08:43	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.
08:43	rammy2k2	had some troubles with zombaio, but who didnt ? :))
08:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]
08:44	mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 to be clear, were you working as an affiliate manager for any of these programs you mentioned, or simply used them as an affiliate ?
08:44	rammy2k2	Naphex: are u on my forum ? :)
08:44	rammy2k2	oh, simply used them
08:45	mircea_popescu	myeah.
08:46	rammy2k2	in what area u need stuff to be done ?
08:46	mircea_popescu	in the area where someone with 10 years' experience being an aff manager, and whom i can verify worked with programs i know and delivered results, is looking to start a biz.
08:47	mircea_popescu	you're not that guy, you're some guy that joined gfy in 2011.
08:47	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything) << engineers call this 'Kansas phone problem' :
08:47	asciilifeform	http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/misc/funny/piss-moan
08:47	rammy2k2	mircea_popescu: yea, i guess i aint :)
08:47	mircea_popescu	:p
08:47	rammy2k2	ill idle around here if thats ok , i have a feeling we can have some nice chats
08:48	mircea_popescu	read the logs while at it.
08:48	rammy2k2	how many bots around here ?
08:48	fluffypony	way too many
08:48	fluffypony	<- bot
08:48	rammy2k2	:))
08:48	mircea_popescu	lol. like 3
08:48	fluffypony	just a reasonably intelligent one
08:48	rammy2k2	cool, i always apreciate AI
08:49	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: spectrometer << the one fellow who did get a little thorough arsework in the queue at Dulles with me, did in fact pack one!
08:51	asciilifeform	phun phact: as a student, i once seriously planned to build a pocket gas chromatographer, to pick up gurlz. how!? to do this - exercise for alert reader.
		↖ ↖
08:51	asciilifeform	hint:
08:51	asciilifeform	;;google histocompatibility sweat
08:51	gribble	Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection - Wikipedia ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex_and_sexual_selection>; Major histocompatibility complex genes, symmetry, and body scent ...: <http://www.oxfordjournals.org/page/5003/18>; MHC genes, body odours, and odour preferences: <http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/9/1269.full>
08:52	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i thought you were just gonna check if they're ovulating
08:53	Naphex	hey so who was running bitcoincharts?
08:53	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the point of carrying minesweeper isn't usually so you can jump on the best mine.
08:53	mircea_popescu	tcatm
08:53	Naphex	;;seen tcatm
08:53	gribble	I have not seen tcatm.
08:53	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform where's your sense of adventure.
08:53	mircea_popescu	;;rated tcatm
08:53	gribble	You rated user tcatm on Tue Feb 28 12:40:39 2012, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: bitcoincharts fellow, sold me adspace..
08:53	asciilifeform	and see, if i had this in me pocket, could've found which of the twelve beagles would relay orders to my canine empire.
08:53	mircea_popescu	that guy
08:54	fluffypony	asciilifeform: so like this http://vimeo.com/31688625
08:55	asciilifeform	no, this
08:55	asciilifeform	http://discovermagazine.com/1996/feb/scentofaman699
08:55	ozbot	Scent of a Man | DiscoverMagazine.com
08:55	asciilifeform	etc
08:57	asciilifeform	it was a good job that my net worth was a few zeroes short of actually building this bugger then.
08:57	davout	;;rate tcatm 1 bitcoincharts, been around a while
08:57	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user tcatm has been recorded.
08:57	asciilifeform	because the device ended up working -without being built-
08:57	mircea_popescu	i know right ? i can taste it on them if we're compatible too
08:57	mircea_popescu	no need for test gear.
08:57	asciilifeform	how: the creature i now keep as a pet was intrigued by the idea, when we met.
08:58	mircea_popescu	(says stan from within his carry on cage)
08:58	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you're Carl Wilhelm Scheele, we knew.
08:59	asciilifeform	chemist hero who tasted everything he made
08:59	mircea_popescu	http://www.siliconhell.com/Images/humour/CatCarrier.jpg everyone has seen this i trust ?
08:59	davout	mircea_popescu: LOL
08:59	mircea_popescu	speaking of "Testing everything", my fav robotzi episode of all time :
09:00	*	asciilifeform spilled
09:00	mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/embed/4z0WmWUT2rM
09:00	ozbot	RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube
09:01	asciilifeform	'...a detection unit contains three concealed cartridges, each of which houses eight mice. During their 4-hour shifts in the detector, the mice mill about in a common area in each cartridge as air is passed over people paused in the archway and through the cartridge...'
09:02	asciilifeform	http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927985.700-sniffer-mice-have-a-nose-for-explosives.html
09:02	ozbot	Sniffer mice have a nose for explosives - tech - 03 February 2011 - New Scientist
09:03	asciilifeform	i like to imagine that certain people are destined to end up in cartridges
09:04	davout	on an unrelated note : "Romanians, not so peaceful after all" -> http://i.imgur.com/nHTqQkA.jpg
09:04	asciilifeform	speaking of which, does any in the pile of MIGs at TSR airport actually start?
09:05	asciilifeform	(finding where they sit - exercise for alert reader)
09:06	mircea_popescu	davout no ak47 :p
09:06	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform those migs not anymore, because they've been gutted for parts.
09:06	asciilifeform	good, might be for sale then!
09:06	asciilifeform	lust.
09:06	ThickAsThieves	Vault of Satoshi now allows real-time auditing it seems
09:07	asciilifeform	washington airport muppetron: 'sir, anything to declare?' me: well, just this...
09:07	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: yeah noticed that
09:07	fluffypony	quite nifty
09:08	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ?
09:08	Naphex	i think they just published their cold wallet
09:08	HeySteve	that robotzi show has cool animation, reminds me of this: http://amanita-design.net/games/machinarium.html
09:08	mircea_popescu	HeySteve yeah very competent team there.
09:08	fluffypony	Naphex: yep, no hot wallet details "for sekuritee"
09:09	mircea_popescu	o hey look at that, sorta dott. HeySteve is it released ?
09:09	mircea_popescu	Naphex so basically what is it, an address with a sum that signed a message ?
09:09	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yep for quite a while, great game
09:09	HeySteve	yep, I think I finished that one
09:09	fluffypony	played the iPad one for hours figuring stuff ou
09:09	Naphex	mircea_popescu: they just made public their cold wallet, so people can check they have the funds
09:10	fluffypony	*out
09:10	Naphex	that it as far as i know
09:10	mircea_popescu	but.... maybe they made public MY cold wallet ?
09:10	ThickAsThieves	<+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ? /// You can verify cold wallet and your own personal balance. You cannot verify hot wallet though ("security reasons").
09:10	asciilifeform	right, we can all write this kind of 'vault'
09:10	Naphex	yeah, don't think they signed it yet
09:10	mircea_popescu	well in that case they did exactly nothing ?
09:10	ThickAsThieves	they didnt sign it
09:10	ThickAsThieves	?
09:11	mircea_popescu	i dunno dood you brought the news. i was askin'
09:11	Naphex	people can check what balance 'their' cold-wallet has, rawr rawr, everybody's auditing
09:11	Naphex	:P
09:11	mircea_popescu	tryin to keep up with all the innovative innovations
09:11	ThickAsThieves	trouble is you can only see this if you have an account
09:11	ThickAsThieves	i do not plan to make one
09:11	mircea_popescu	it's almost as if thery go to a dedicated university to be stupid, these people.
09:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00098446 = 26.925 BTC [-] {2}
09:12	mircea_popescu	this has to be the result of training, methodically making the wrong choice on every turn is not something that can be explained by simple randomness
09:12	ThickAsThieves	it works out okay if youre marketing to stupid people though
09:12	ThickAsThieves	:/\
09:12	mircea_popescu	well sure. marketing to people who went to the same school as you did always works well.
09:12	Naphex	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23m1de/vault_of_satoshi_launches_full_public_proof_of/ / http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/23m3xg/vault_of_satoshi_launches_full_public_proof_of/
09:12	asciilifeform	one of you told me that the fellow behind 'vault' (argentinian?) has actual brain. so does he keep it in a case, buried in the garden with kalash? or use it for other ventures? because 'vault' doesn't reveal evidence of its use.
09:13	fluffypony	afaik they're using this: https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-solvency
09:13	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform vault of satoshi is unrelated to that guy afaik
09:13	davout	fluffypony: yeah, that's just a clever way to present the data
09:14	mircea_popescu	who's olalonde ?
09:14	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0644536 = 0.2578 BTC [-]
09:14	davout	apparently some french guy that was smart enough to move to china
09:14	mircea_popescu	Specification
09:14	mircea_popescu	Work in progress.
09:14	mircea_popescu	lovely.
09:14	mircea_popescu	so can i just copy the html page saying success, much coin excess ?
09:14	mircea_popescu	since this seems to be server side
09:15	davout	mircea_popescu: still beats the "specification is useless because code" approach
09:15	mircea_popescu	https://raw.github.com/olalonde/solvency-verifier-extension/master/docs/screenshot.png
09:15	mircea_popescu	gotta love this.
09:15	mircea_popescu	ok, this is a fucking scam.
09:15	Naphex	hehe
09:15	fluffypony	oh I take it back
09:15	mircea_popescu	so i get 50 btc from 100 users. i spend 4925 of these 5k btc
09:15	fluffypony	they're using Proof of LIabilities
09:15	fluffypony	same guy
09:15	fluffypony	http://syskall.com/proof-of-liabilities/
09:16	ozbot	Proof of Liabilities tools
09:16	mircea_popescu	each user sees "success! site is solvent! 25 btc extra"
09:16	mircea_popescu	fucking bitchslap these idiots with a trout omfg.
09:16	fluffypony	https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-liabilities
09:16	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: solvency-verifier << when i was a little boy, me brother said 'i shall build you a computer.' (he had one, a rarity, i was envious and annoying)
09:16	jurov	ThickAsThieves yes wao is wao
09:16	asciilifeform	so next day he gives it to me
09:17	asciilifeform	a matchbox. push it, one side pops out, printed with answer!! 'CORRECT.'
		↖
09:17	asciilifeform	push other side, 'ERROR'
09:17	asciilifeform	'here's yer computer'
09:17	asciilifeform	'the one you deserve'
09:17	mircea_popescu	how mean!
09:17	davout	it's spelled "compootah"
09:17	fluffypony	I would've complained about the stack size
09:17	asciilifeform	i deserved this computer. and, apparently, some people today, still deserve.
09:17	mircea_popescu	meanwhile back at the other side of mean : "Problem 4 : Permeating all the foregoing and sufficiently so to become a problem in its own right is the incredible arrogance of the recently liberated corporate slavebois working as independent coders. Seriously, start working on the BTC securities trade system of the future without ever having worked for MPEx, without having humbly presented your inept ideas to the most gra
09:17	mircea_popescu	ndiose master Mircea Popescu (ie, me), without anything like that ? O, why, because you’re a special little trainflake of brilliance and genius who can ? Really ?
09:17	mircea_popescu	Reality doesn’t work that way."
09:18	mircea_popescu	fuckwit without a clue makes "proof of solvency".
09:18	mircea_popescu	it works worse than the one bit matchbox computer ;/
09:18	asciilifeform	righto, both sides painted 'CORRECT'
09:18	mircea_popescu	should get fucking branded, roman empire style.
09:18	fluffypony	ok so it's an implementation of this: https://iwilcox.me.uk/2014/proving-bitcoin-reserves
09:19	fluffypony	which seems great in theory, but as mircea_popescu pointed out it's easy to fake
09:19	mircea_popescu	"I THOUGHT I WAS SMART. TURNS OUT I WAS JUST ANOTHER LITERATE IGNORAMUS"
09:19	mircea_popescu	in like inch high letters, one letter at a time.
09:20	asciilifeform	'i own proxima centaruri.' - 'ok, i'll believe. but first, wiggle it a bit. my gravimeter's ready, whatcha waiting for.'
09:20	mircea_popescu	70 of them, takes two months.
09:20	asciilifeform	*centauri
09:20	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves ok, you wanna talk about getting under my skin ? this shit gets under my skin.
09:20	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's not a fair test. i own my cock, but it's also too big to wiggle.
09:21	ThickAsThieves	your hands have gone weak from lack of self service
09:21	ThickAsThieves	have your girl move it
09:21	mircea_popescu	it needs like three women working it
09:21	mircea_popescu	wouldn't that be the curse of all time.
09:21	mircea_popescu	"honey! i gotta pee! get honey and honey, let's get moving on this!"
09:21	asciilifeform	yah, but you can make it report for duty, prove ownership.
09:22	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so far. from what i hear from older people however...
09:22	asciilifeform	herr mocsny had a good point about this
09:22	davout	mircea_popescu: lazyness would command to get a chamber pot instead
09:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0009871 = 21.4201 BTC [+] {4}
09:22	asciilifeform	'It would be interesting to do a study on men who need Viagra to have sex with their partners. How many of those same men are able to wank off to porn (whatever variety they like, but most likely it would feature women from the most physically attractive 1%) without chemical assistance?'
09:22	asciilifeform	(mocsny - http://www.myrsky.net/danimal-archive-part-1/index.html)
09:22	mircea_popescu	chamber pot, chamber maid, chamber music...
09:23	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that'd be a good study. i'm also curious.
09:23	asciilifeform	speaking of chamber pot - anyone else's hotel room had... an Otohime!?!?
09:23	asciilifeform	last thing i expected to find
09:23	asciilifeform	;;google otohime
09:23	gribble	Toyotama-hime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotama-hime>; Otohime - The One Piece Wiki - Wikia: <http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Otohime>; Otohime - Yu-Gi-Oh!: <http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Otohime>
09:23	mircea_popescu	a what ?
09:24	asciilifeform	http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/shop/sound-princess-loo-001106
09:24	ozbot	The sound of a princess... on the toilet | CNN Travel
09:25	Naphex	oh man, the tehnology nowadays, and i used to just turn on the water
09:25	Naphex	:))
09:25	mircea_popescu	aren't these gizmos like required by the classification board ?
09:25	jurov	i tried that switch but did not recognize any sound
09:25	mircea_popescu	to get your stars or w/e ?
09:25	asciilifeform	yeah mine was dead too
09:25	asciilifeform	but i'm not a princess
09:25	ThickAsThieves	;;rate wao 2 Spreads bitcoin awareness, works with jurov (Coinroll, etc), friendly dood
09:25	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user wao has been recorded.
09:27	ThickAsThieves	"Study confirms monkeys can do math"
09:28	asciilifeform	waiting for 'study confirms man can do math'
09:28	mircea_popescu	and by math is meant, of course, arithmetics ?
09:29	fluffypony	the three Rs - Reading, Riting, and Rithmetic
09:29	ThickAsThieves	"GitHub co-founder resigns after investigation into harassment claims"
09:29	asciilifeform	there was, if i recall, suspicion that higher animals (e.g. dog catching ball) can crunch diff. equations - until high speed photography developed
09:30	asciilifeform	then it was found that creatures merely do 'bang-bang correction' when 'solving' the motion equations.
09:30	ThickAsThieves	http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/21/google-is-researching-ways-to-make-encryption-easier-to-use-in-gmail/
09:30	ozbot	Google is researching ways to make encryption easier to use in Gmail | VentureBeat | Security | by H
09:30	ThickAsThieves	(psp)
09:30	ThickAsThieves	oops
09:30	ThickAsThieves	(pgp)
09:31	asciilifeform	'integrating into gmail'
09:31	asciilifeform	next news:
09:31	asciilifeform	'google buys keybase'
09:31	jurov	google's unto embrace extern extinguish?
09:31	jurov	*onto
09:31	mircea_popescu	jurov exactly.
09:31	asciilifeform	seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap
09:32	mircea_popescu	dude srsly ? cofounders split up over that horvath nitwit ?!
09:32	mircea_popescu	poor github. so who's replacing them ?
09:32	asciilifeform	the gurl?
09:32	ThickAsThieves	appears so
09:32	Naphex	didn't google launch gmail just too show ads on your mail context?
09:33	Naphex	what ads will run for encrypted emails? ;o
09:33	ThickAsThieves	Naphex i dont think so
09:33	asciilifeform	'products bought by other people having your private key...'
09:33	ThickAsThieves	the mail context came much later
09:33	fluffypony	Naphex: they still know what you're searching
09:33	mircea_popescu	Naphex no, gmail was because yahoo sucked and they did mail.
09:33	asciilifeform	'google buys phuctor', news at 11.
09:33	fluffypony	I mean searching in mail
09:33	ThickAsThieves	google just wants you to enter their cage for the most part
09:33	mircea_popescu	many shepherds in backwards places (like romania) still use yahoo mail
09:34	fluffypony	although that'll be interesting - how will gmail search work if your mail is encrypted?
09:34	mircea_popescu	fluffypony "encrypted"
09:34	asciilifeform	'encrypted'
09:34	mircea_popescu	it's just encrypted to stop the leaks wherein haxxors get the pm's email.
09:34	fluffypony	exactly
09:34	mircea_popescu	it's not encrypted to stop google reading it. it couldn't be
09:34	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00098778 = 3.3091 BTC [+]
09:34	mircea_popescu	otherwise, i already use encrypted gmail.
09:34	ThickAsThieves	then it aint really encrypted :/
09:35	Apocalyptic	<asciilifeform> seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap // i like the way you put it
09:35	ThickAsThieves	the line is drawn at whether the encryption happens locally or on google servers, right?
09:36	Apocalyptic	even if it's done locally, you trust google to provide the right js script or whatever
09:36	asciilifeform	the concept of 'private key' is apparently high mathematics to some people.
09:37	ThickAsThieves	isnt there already an opensource pgp mail client?
09:37	fluffypony	no clue
09:37	jurov	ThickAsThieves: KMail + Kleopatra
09:37	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves why do i need to mix the channel and the security layer at all ?
09:37	mircea_popescu	this is exactly wrong. i do not need gmail involved in encryption any more than i need incentivised wot
09:37	fluffypony	Mailvelope does GPG in the browser (Chrome only, FF coming) for GMail
09:37	jurov	but nothing can open PGP/MIME stuff it produces
09:37	mircea_popescu	i just encrypt in gpg, everything the same way, and then paste the text in an email.
09:38	mircea_popescu	this works with all carriers, cause it's not their job to encrypt. their job is to carry.
09:38	jurov	so I just copy paste gpg encrypted clobs anyway
09:38	fluffypony	also
09:38	mircea_popescu	sanity is separating risks not bundling them.
09:38	asciilifeform	it's not unlike toilet in the kitchen.
09:38	fluffypony	although probably 95% of my mails aren't encrypted or gpg signed because that would require educating all recipients on how to decrypt them
09:39	ThickAsThieves	it does seem a bit silly when you consider any mail client made for encryption essentially exists to remove the bother of copy-pasting
09:39	asciilifeform	why does your flat need both a toilet and kitchen sink?
09:39	asciilifeform	save the bother of walking
09:39	asciilifeform	save plumber some work.
09:39	Apocalyptic	ThickAsThieves, there is no bother too great for security
09:39	ThickAsThieves	i always wondered why people dont piss in the sink
09:40	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i thought that's where the us was headed with the garbage disposal things
09:40	ThickAsThieves	we had this habit when i rented with other dudes
09:40	asciilifeform	someone already sells toilets with 'garbage disposal'
09:40	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRppqaanECA
09:40	asciilifeform	waiting for a bright fellow to make next step.
09:40	ThickAsThieves	even the bathroom sink is more suited for male pissing than the toiley
09:40	Apocalyptic	!up chairman_meow
09:40	assbot	Voicing chairman_meow for 30 minutes.
09:40	chairman_meow	thanks
09:40	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00098778 = 8.1492 BTC [+]
09:41	chairman_meow	can anyone recommend an investment like just-dice?
09:41	mircea_popescu	just-dice.
09:41	ThickAsThieves	no
09:41	ThickAsThieves	what is just-dice missing that you seek?
09:42	chairman_meow	ThickAsThieves: i want to invest in gambling sites. I just don't want to put everything in just-dice
09:42	ThickAsThieves	bitbet
09:42	ThickAsThieves	mpex.co
09:43	chairman_meow	thanks
09:43	*	ThickAsThieves waits for "30btc to register, fuck that!"
09:44	mircea_popescu	anyone recvalls that film where an aspiring actress ends up killing her baby ?
09:44	chairman_meow	ThickAsThieves: nothing that allows me to invest small amounts?
09:44	mircea_popescu	i think it was von trier maybe ?
09:44	ThickAsThieves	coinbr.com
09:45	ThickAsThieves	but maybe read and learn about bitbet before worrying about how to buy it?
09:45	chairman_meow	everydice.com looks like what i'm looking for. kinda shady though
09:47	chairman_meow	heyyy mircea_popescu owns bitbet
09:47	mircea_popescu	only for the good stuff
09:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0657999 = 0.329 BTC [+]
09:49	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 5 @ 0.14 = 0.7 BTC
09:49	mircea_popescu	daisy diamond!
09:49	mircea_popescu	btw, great film.
09:49	ThickAsThieves	mostly mp just adds randomness to bitbet ;)
09:50	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04300042 = 0.301 BTC [-] {3}
09:50	chairman_meow	hmm there doesnt seem to be something like just-dice
09:50	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves my contributions throughout my life have been nixing things and doing weird shit. in that order.
09:51	Blazedout419	lol love that painting mircea_popescu
09:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2892 @ 0.0000694 = 0.2007 BTC [-] {6}
09:51	ThickAsThieves	bitcoinragazine censorshipped me :(
09:51	mircea_popescu	Blazedout419 the gauguin ?
09:51	Blazedout419	ya
09:51	Blazedout419	haha "paint me as hitler"
09:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00098375 = 11.1164 BTC [-] {2}
09:52	ThickAsThieves	i was trying to point people to check out bitcoinpete's expose on maidsafe and they didnt approve my comment
09:53	mircea_popescu	oh oh. yeah huh :D
09:53	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves nonegativityallowed.com
09:53	mircea_popescu	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10775477/Why-your-fingerprints-may-not-be-unique.html
09:53	ozbot	Why your fingerprints may not be unique - Telegraph
09:53	mircea_popescu	in other nonunique news.
09:56	Duffer1	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/
09:57	fluffypony	lol, theymos getting called out on /r/bitcoin now - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23o0hs/an_rbitcoin_moderator_seems_to_be_a_wellknown/
09:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0657999 = 0.3948 BTC [+]
09:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.03 = 0.75 BTC [+]
10:02	ThickAsThieves	"Vleisides' finances have been in question for the past several months," particularly because his residence "was recently purchased by BFL for approximately $400,000 in cash.
10:02	mircea_popescu	heh.
10:02	mircea_popescu	the noose tightens.
10:02	Duffer1	are monarchs shipping yet?
10:03	fluffypony	don't think so
10:03	Duffer1	sounds like this guy is going to pass away in prison like his father
10:05	chairman_meow	am I still voiced?
10:05	chairman_meow	yeah I am
10:05	chairman_meow	something I don't understand with provably fair.
10:06	ThickAsThieves	that it doesnt prove the operator isnt stealing?
10:06	HeySteve	wanted to mention earlier, Lavaboom looks promising for secure email: https://lavaboom.com/nerd-info.html
10:06	chairman_meow	ThickAsThieves: you read my mind!
10:06	davout	chairman_meow: no, he read the logs
10:06	ThickAsThieves	well in this case, it happens to be the first question i eve rasked in bitcoin
10:06	ThickAsThieves	to erik
10:07	chairman_meow	heh. so is there a solution to this?
10:07	Apocalyptic	"we do everything possible to make Lavaboom easy to use while keeping the service as secure as possible." HeySteve, you can't have it both ways
10:07	ThickAsThieves	no solution to date
10:07	Apocalyptic	or you end up with a thing that is neither one nor the other
10:07	davout	ThickAsThieves: so serious :-)
10:08	*	ThickAsThieves makes davout serious face and grunty retort noises
10:08	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: surely the solution should be that all rolls are on a single address, no change addresses?
10:08	*	davout throws a branch of celery to ThickAsThieves to calm his anger
10:08	HeySteve	Apocalyptic, I'd encrypt myself for anything sensitive but this will improve things for people who can't do that
10:08	ThickAsThieves	lol
10:08	Duffer1	" PayPal global asset protection officer, told her that as of September 2013, PayPal froze BFL’s account containing $11 million and that PayPal received 6,000 complaints in total."
10:08	Apocalyptic	HeySteve, it will improve the illusion
10:08	davout	HeySteve: there is no "person who can't do that", there are lazy people
10:09	ThickAsThieves	fluffy, the problem is the operator has the key
10:09	ThickAsThieves	so he can bet however he likes
10:09	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: yeah, so when the pot is big enough he can duck
10:09	ThickAsThieves	from any random address
10:09	fluffypony	and "win"
10:09	HeySteve	right, well the more cycles wasted on lazy people using halfway solutions the better?
10:09	ThickAsThieves	it gets worse
10:09	ThickAsThieves	he can do it with investor's money
10:09	davout	HeySteve: no
10:10	HeySteve	unsure why not, doesn't it increase costs for spies?
10:12	davout	HeySteve: does it ?
10:12	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: so then what about a hot-wallet, lost roll amounts are sent to a cold-wallet, and the cold wallet is multi-sig, with a board of investors holding keys and the site operator holding keys. payouts happen once every 24 hours instead of immediately.
10:13	davout	fluffypony: running away with the pot/cheating -> different problemz
10:13	HeySteve	davout, in theory
10:13	mircea_popescu	Duffer1 and then gigaom harps about how coindesk is relevant in bitcoin.
10:14	mircea_popescu	meanwhile, mp says he wants vehehes' head, mp gets vehehes' head. mp says he wants karpeles' head, mp gets karpeles' head
10:14	Duffer1	coindesk hurts my brain
10:14	mircea_popescu	and s' and s' and so on and so forth.
10:14	mircea_popescu	and ano i shall be off making bbq.
10:14	*	fluffypony ponders
10:14	fluffypony	davout: and this is why I don't gamble
10:14	fluffypony	at least not in the traditional sense :-P
10:17	ThickAsThieves	you cant remove trust from the problem here
10:18	ThickAsThieves	look at bitbet
10:18	ThickAsThieves	you still must trust them to hold your coins and pay them out
10:18	fluffypony	yeah
10:18	ThickAsThieves	that's not a problem necessarily
10:18	ThickAsThieves	it's a service
10:20	ThickAsThieves	the difference with bitbet is that the interests are better-aligned
10:20	fluffypony	yeah
10:21	ThickAsThieves	so, it would go that you might be better off investing in owning a dice site privately, than being a public investor via shares or a shared pot
10:22	ThickAsThieves	but then you'd also be the guy with the problem
10:22	ThickAsThieves	of not being able to prove you arent stealing
10:22	fluffypony	sure
10:23	fluffypony	I think it goes back to a discussion I had with someone the other day - he was espousing the values of the Dogecoin community, and how nice everyone is, and they don't have "scams like Bitcoin has"
10:23	fluffypony	so I pointed out that lending a buddy 200k Dogecoin today is worth a whopping $120, but Dogecoin's market cap is tiny ($44 mil as opposed to $6.2 bil), and would he trust his buddy to not run with those coins if they were worth $17 000?
10:24	fluffypony	in other words, operators may start off with good intentions, but when they suddenly realise they're sitting on a large pot of gold, are they still trustworthy?
10:24	fluffypony	and unfortunately in the case of many an operator in the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency space they don't scale their control measures in line with the money they control
10:25	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17664 @ 0.00098778 = 17.4481 BTC [+]
10:26	Apocalyptic	operational security is hard to improvise
10:28	fluffypony	Apocalyptic: hence my #bitcoin-dev question on accounts, I was wondering how "auditable"/visible they were publicly (the answer being not-at-all)
10:29	mircea_popescu	-dev has accounts ?!
10:29	jurov	i think it was about bitcoin-qt accounts
10:30	fluffypony	jurov: they're deprecating it
10:30	jurov	electrum devs try to do accounts right, we'll see how it comes out
10:31	mircea_popescu	oh jesus those things.
10:31	fluffypony	but I had this little brain-fart of an idea of using accounts mapped 1:1 to an address on an exchange (turns out my understanding of "accounts" was incorrect)
10:31	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-was-written-by-the-retarded-part-ii/
10:31	ozbot	Bitcoin was written by the retarded, part II pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
10:31	mircea_popescu	there, have at.
10:35	bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: and in at #8 is the bitcoin foundation's annual letter lol
10:36	davout	jurov: ThomasV is working on accounts??
10:36	bitcoinpete	the twitter is 6x older than the blog. all in good time
10:37	bitcoinpete	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23lt4p/neo_bee_the_full_picture/
10:37	ozbot	NEO & BEE: THE FULL PICTURE : Bitcoin
10:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00022471 = 0.1124 BTC [-]
10:38	bitcoinpete	Brewster: "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left."
10:40	bitcoinpete	Andreas Antonopoulos posts on Reddit stating that “I was as surprised and bewildered by these events…dismayed that another bitcoin company had imploded amidst allegations of fraud and leaving many investors, creditors and employees with serious losses…all of whom betrayed by Danny” <<fuckin derp
10:40	mircea_popescu	bitcoinpete ask derpopopulos how come is it possible that danny brewster fucked everyone in the ass, when he never said things such as nigger or put down women for being retarded ?
10:41	mircea_popescu	maybe he should change his spiel from his current nonsense. apparently that doesn't help anything.
10:41	mircea_popescu	carefully selecting audiences for libertardism does not on the volume of data collected so far seem to produce better businesses.
10:42	bitcoinpete	lol i'll call into joe rogan's show tmrw and heckle derpopolous live
10:42	fluffypony	I'd pay to hear that
10:42	fluffypony	do you accept Altcoin?
10:42	mircea_popescu	yeah srsly. we've all been sayin' hail marys over here like he prescribed, and we still got the clap.
10:42	mircea_popescu	what gives ?
10:42	mircea_popescu	and is he paying for it ?
10:42	mircea_popescu	tell him some investors have been very careful to follow his instructions and they still lost money. what's he going to do to make them whole ? apologize ? pay out of pocket ?
10:43	bitcoinpete	afaik andreas is fuckin broke and just scrapes by as a conference gypsy
10:43	mircea_popescu	i know, but he does it in an offensive manner.
10:43	mircea_popescu	at least to my easily offended asshole sensibilities.
10:44	fluffypony	am I the only person who hasn't seen him speak / heard him interviewed / watched him in a video?
10:45	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: maybe, you're out on some lulz
10:46	bitcoinpete	he's all about "the other 6 billion," promoting scammers, and 2.0 baloney
10:46	fluffypony	bitcoinpete: every time I see a video with him linked to on /r/bitcoin it just seems like a link to a TED talk, and I can't be bothered to watch TED talks
10:46	ThickAsThieves	i have yet to watch more than 10secs of antonopoly
10:46	jborkl	The next day Brewster shocks the management team by telling them that the 5,000 BTC have ..overnight become only 140! "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left. I am going to the UK to find investors. I will send you the 140 coins left and also sell my Mercedes
10:46	jborkl	and Bentley and will send you the money to pay the March salaries and the creditors".
10:47	bitcoinpete	;;google antonopolous joe rogan
10:47	gribble	Joe Rogan Experience #446 - Andreas Antonopoulos - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cexawnOlR8>; Joe Rogan (Podcast Site): <http://podcasts.joerogan.net/>; Andreas M. Antonopoulos Live on Joe Rogan Experiance RIGHT ...: <http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wbmo7/andreas_m_antonopoulos_live_on_joe_rogan/>
10:47	jborkl	Jesus christ, what a fucking retard
10:47	mircea_popescu	fluffypony i think i saw a pic. kinda bald fellow.
10:47	ThickAsThieves	despite being hetero, i find him too unnattractive to look at
10:47	bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: hunchy too
10:47	ThickAsThieves	maybe it's just my spider sense
10:47	mircea_popescu	jborkl "5,000 BTC have ..overnight become only 140!" << there's some truth to that.
10:47	mircea_popescu	you see, toy exchanges love to inflate their figures.
10:48	mircea_popescu	due to the complete lack of transparency, and seeing how all havelock/btct/bitfunder/glbse/etc offerings are destined to implode anyway
10:48	mircea_popescu	they can get away with the pretense that they raise a lot of money.
10:48	mircea_popescu	then inexplicable shit happens. like this :
10:52	bitcoinpete	https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/458619240791019521
10:52	ozbot	Twitter / bitcoinpete: Hey @aantonop: Are you making ...
10:52	jborkl	I am going to sell my Mercedes and Bentley <-- what a asshole
10:52	bitcoinpete	not my harshest rebuke… don't feel like tearing assholes before breakfast
10:53	fluffypony	bitcoinpete: I see not everyone appreciated your maidsafe criticism
10:54	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2014#595720
10:54	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: not everyone appreciates frank lloyd wright either, c'est la vie
10:54	ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log
10:54	jborkl	what is maidsafe anyway? keeps the maid from stealing your bitcoins?
10:54	fluffypony	"@bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a trashy review of a summer movie. Be more constructive."
10:54	mircea_popescu	it's like maid to order. a pun.
10:54	fluffypony	what a whiney little girl
10:55	bitcoinpete	jborkl: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/
10:55	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: blame the education system lol
10:55	mircea_popescu	fluffypony lmao. when did some fucktarded bitcoin noncompany with no wot start looking down on trashy summer movies ?!
10:55	mircea_popescu	what is this, the reverseland ?
10:55	fluffypony	lol
10:56	mircea_popescu	Your search - @bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a ... - did not match any documents.
10:56	mircea_popescu	can i \has linkl ?
10:56	jborkl	then it should be madesafe right? I guess I don't get the pun
10:56	mircea_popescu	jborkl they're new in the punning business.
10:56	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: sure gimme a sec
10:56	bitcoinpete	https://twitter.com/russellaugust/status/458501550277537792
10:56	ozbot	Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...
10:56	bitcoinpete	faster
10:56	fluffypony	https://twitter.com/russellaugust/status/458501550277537792
10:56	ozbot	Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...
10:56	fluffypony	oh there, beat me to it
10:56	*	fluffypony sends bitcoinpete a coke
10:57	bounce	no minute maid?
10:57	bitcoinpete	just had one of the guys in our meet-up group ask about maidsafe too. of course, a day after i blogged about it. just like he asked about bitgo a day after i blogged about that. noticing a pattern here
10:57	mircea_popescu	the bigger q here is who the fuck is that russel dood.
10:58	mircea_popescu	"Avid film and commercial editor, motion artist, and sometimes software developer." just sounds to me like unemployed young poor.
10:58	mircea_popescu	bitcoinpete the pattern being that peeps are trolling you or that peeps don't read your blog ?
10:59	bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: very big q indeed. is being a "motion artist" like someone who takes jogs outside?
10:59	bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: not reading lol
11:00	fluffypony	bitcoinpete: I believe "motion artists" practice an obscure form of yoga
11:00	ThickAsThieves	i exist therefore i artist
11:00	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: not much for coke, got any wine?
11:00	bitcoinpete	fluffypony: probably one of the hot, sweaty kinds
11:00	fluffypony	bitcoinpete: TONS, take a trip to South Africa and stop by, I'll provide the alcohol
11:00	bitcoinpete	deal
11:01	fluffypony	cgcardona_:)
11:01	bitcoinpete	reading part 3 of essences...
11:02	mircea_popescu	fluffypony i bet you it's just copied off the oscars. "the academy of motioning artistes"
11:02	fluffypony	hah
11:02	mircea_popescu	at the time in newyork young hungry cocksuckers worked like taxi cabs : you'd motion to them and they'd get to work.
11:03	jurov	davout re: electrum multiple wallets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427617.0
11:03	jurov	er.. accounts
11:03	cgcardona_	top of the morning bitcoin-assets! cc/ fluffypony
11:06	mircea_popescu	ello
11:07	jborkl	Ok, I read the website facts for Maidsafe and I feel dumb now. And if they are going to make a really bad pun they need a logo to go with it that makes you laugh
11:07	jborkl	https://www.google.com/search?q=french+maid+stealing+image&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y4RWU_b8D-HOyAGcg4GADg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=955#q=french+maid+theft&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=e3pqlcwPH_fDFM%253A%3BWnNPSumn-CUFuM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.uncyc.org%252Fcommons%252Fthumb%252Ff%252Ff9%252FFrench_maid_dingo.jpg%252F150px-French_maid_dingo.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmirror
11:07	jborkl	.uncyc.org%252Fwiki%252FSeptember%3B150%3B151
11:07	jborkl	nm the link hehe
11:08	ThickAsThieves	http://www.pfhub.com/u-s-investment-banker-james-rickards-says-tie-bitcoin-gold-avoid-volatility-580/
11:08	ozbot	U.S. investment banker James Rickards says tie bitcoin to gold and avoid volatility
11:08	davout	jurov: thanks, i'll inquire about it
11:08	ThickAsThieves	US doctor says tie noose to neck to avoid risk
11:09	bitcoinpete	ThickAsThieves: that noose is also for professionalism
11:11	ThickAsThieves	maybe #b-a logo could be a sword of Damocles with a halo at the bottom
11:12	mircea_popescu	either that or a gaping asshole
11:13	ThickAsThieves	might as well make a whole crest out of it
11:14	ThickAsThieves	hmm wsj ssl broken
11:14	ThickAsThieves	https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/04/22/thai-tea-firm-ichitan-injects-a-buzz-into-thailands-stock-market/?mod=WSJBlog
11:14	ozbot	Tea Firm Injects Buzz into Thai Stock Market With Porsche Giveaway - MoneyBeat - WSJ
11:14	ThickAsThieves	next is BOGO?
11:16	ThickAsThieves	Sharpie of Damocles
11:19	mircea_popescu	http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122290720439096481
11:19	mircea_popescu	moar like sharpie of patrocles
11:21	ThickAsThieves	jurov:<davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D /// Surprise!
11:21	davout	whoops
11:21	asciilifeform	;;google trading sardines
11:21	gribble	"Trading Sardines" - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28627.0>; Natural Gas In 2013: It's Now A Trading Sardine - Seeking Alpha: <http://seekingalpha.com/article/1091461-natural-gas-in-2013-its-now-a-trading-sardine>; "Sardines" are to Trade, not Eat | Gold Eagle: <http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/sardines-are-trade-not-eat>
		↖
11:22	davout	;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
11:23	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.
11:23	davout	;;rate jurov 3
11:23	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user jurov has been recorded.
11:24	davout	;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
11:24	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.
11:24	davout	;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
11:24	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.
11:24	davout	weird, the message doesn't get picked up
11:25	Blazedout419	what do you mean
11:25	jurov	what? i see gribbles replies
11:25	Blazedout419	[11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
11:25	Blazedout419	[11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
11:25	Blazedout419	it shows
11:25	Blazedout419	the gribble spam chans shows all!
11:25	davout	okay, wasn't showing at first on bitcoin-otc
11:25	davout	seems good nao
11:26	davout	;;rate asciilifeform 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, very knowledgeable about engineering and beagles
11:26	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.
11:26	Blazedout419	you guys know gribble has a chan that echos all ratings right?
11:26	davout	might as well do a little update round
11:26	davout	Blazedout419: no
11:26	Blazedout419	ya
11:27	Blazedout419	only gribble is voiced...and only shows ratings as added
11:27	davout	Blazedout419: no as in "oh really? tell me more" :-)
11:27	Blazedout419	#bitcoin-otc-ratings
11:27	davout	;;rate kakobrekla 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x
11:27	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user kakobrekla has changed from 1 to 3.
11:27	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3053 @ 0.000135 = 0.4122 BTC [+]
11:27	bitcoinpete	ciao for nao
11:28	davout	;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
11:28	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 1 to 3.
11:28	davout	;;rate ThomasV 3 electrum, met IRL a few times
11:28	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThomasV has changed from 3 to 3.
11:30	davout	Blazedout419: thank you !
11:30	Blazedout419	ya
11:31	davout	Blazedout419: learn something new every day!
11:31	mircea_popescu	davout omfg you actually didn't know ?
11:31	mircea_popescu	i thought sarcasm fo sho, you nooblet you
11:32	Blazedout419	;;ratingsystem getrating Blazedout419
11:32	gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask Blazedout419!~Rogue@76-243-42-60.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net . User Blazedout419, rated since Sat May 18 17:05:13 2013. Cumulative rating 258, from 119 total ratings. Received ratings: 119 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 124 positive, 3 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Blazedout419
11:32	jurov	looks like i should update my ratings too :)
11:32	Blazedout419	he does so many things
11:32	jurov	;;ident jurov
11:32	gribble	Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is not identified.
11:32	mircea_popescu	o look, coinbrazil has a mexico.
11:32	jurov	lol
11:33	jurov	it was supposed to be used for email, too
11:34	jurov	after some bastions are erected and moats dug
11:35	jurov	!up only
11:35	assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.
11:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00098881 = 3.002 BTC [+]
11:40	jurov	;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13ad09cbe0fc1cde274158d2b9e2d39594bb14c40d65609dcfa6224e
11:40	gribble	You are now authenticated for user jurov with key 677ABD62D0AEE7D7
11:41	jurov	;;rate asciilifeform 3 NSA delivers; met IRL
11:41	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.
11:42	jurov	;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central; met IRL
11:42	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user davout has changed from 3 to 3.
11:43	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.528 = 1.056 BTC [-]
11:44	jurov	;;rate mike_c 3 <3 bitcoinalpha;we met IRL
11:44	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
11:46	jurov	;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 Biggest IDIFF investor, we met IRL
11:46	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
11:47	davout	;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also btcalpha <3
11:47	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 3 to 3.
11:47	davout	jurov: thanks for reminding me mike_c does btcalpha, luv it
11:50	jurov	;;rate kakobrekla 4 runs several solid btc enterprises (bit4x,bitbet,panacea,...);we met IRL
11:51	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
11:51	jurov	;;rate mircea_popescu 6 has pet manticores;we met IRL
11:51	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 4 to 6.
11:52	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/
11:52	ozbot	A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
11:52	mircea_popescu	in my humble opinion, this is the most important thing written on the topic in the history of human culture, neatly dwarving adam smith and so forth.
11:53	ThickAsThieves	just when i was gonna take a break from reading
11:55	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40373 @ 0.00098287 = 39.6814 BTC [-] {3}
11:56	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47728 @ 0.00098162 = 46.8508 BTC [-] {4}
11:57	ThickAsThieves	typo: marriage certificate. Were burning it today, all of it
11:57	ThickAsThieves	we're
12:00	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.48246700 BTC to 6`890 shares, 36030 satoshi per share
12:01	ThickAsThieves	thinking out loud, if something is not a medium of exchange,
12:01	ThickAsThieves	should it never be used as one?
12:01	ThickAsThieves	for example, time
12:01	ThickAsThieves	i mow your lawn so i can have you do my taxes
12:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52664 @ 0.00098641 = 51.9483 BTC [+]
12:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2536 @ 0.00098837 = 2.5065 BTC [+]
12:06	jurov	ThickAsThieves: that's barter and does not involve any medium of exchange
12:07	ThickAsThieves	i suppose
12:07	davout	jurov: the distinction of barter vs. other forms of trade is imho quite artificial
12:07	ThickAsThieves	i always sorta viewed mediums of exchange as manifestations of time
12:08	davout	a medium of exchange is just another economic good, one that is particularly liquid though
12:08	ThickAsThieves	time is all we really have right?
12:09	davout	why so ?
12:13	ThickAsThieves	hmm, it's the only resource everyone has? how one "spends" their time may determine their "wealth" ...?
12:13	benkay	you're born long time and short housing...
12:13	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves ty!
12:14	ThickAsThieves	it is inconvenient to transfer time, so currency is used
12:14	ThickAsThieves	among other inconvenient things to transfer
12:14	mircea_popescu	so if it doesn't satisfy #2, it's not a medium of exchange
12:14	mircea_popescu	case closed.
12:15	mircea_popescu	i mean you know, you can view planets as stars, as in the case of venus
12:15	mircea_popescu	what you prefer viewing things as tho is not a point of astronomy
12:15	ThickAsThieves	well i did start by acknowledging it was not a MoE
12:15	mircea_popescu	time is definitely very important.
12:16	ThickAsThieves	maybe rephrased, would it be preferred to require currency in a barter
12:16	mircea_popescu	the problem of natural persons vs legal persons is that natural persons have constraints legal persons do not.
12:16	ThickAsThieves	instead of the man;s time
12:16	mircea_popescu	such as finite timespan, and a need to eat.
12:16	mircea_popescu	this makes corporations win out in any fair contest.
12:17	ThickAsThieves	how is it fair if one side has constraints?
12:17	mircea_popescu	a fair contest is a contest which does not distinguish between participants.
12:17	mircea_popescu	!up surfcap
12:17	assbot	Voicing surfcap for 30 minutes.
12:17	ThickAsThieves	ah, so it's fair because the person chose to compete
12:18	mircea_popescu	fairness in this context may not be what you think when you say the word.
12:18	mircea_popescu	fairness is not a guarantee of equal resuts, even if you promise equal effort.
12:18	mircea_popescu	fair is simply anonymity.
12:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 750 @ 0.14 = 105 BTC
12:18	mircea_popescu	if the contest is running, and it dun matter who's running, he still has to do 100 meters, be it obama or goldstein,
12:18	mircea_popescu	then it's a fair contest.
12:20	mircea_popescu	and from unrelated news : "Nothing makes you more powerful inside the joint than a strong grounding in currency arbitrage."
12:20	mircea_popescu	bitcoin is the best thing you could possibly be doing with your time, not last on the list because even should it put you in prison, it will probably make you a ruler there, too.
12:21	mircea_popescu	a more absolute gift of power could scarcely be devised. "even in hell, they with this staff wield power" sort of thing.
12:21	dignork	mircea_popescu: person can win over corporate entity, think of kill contract for C-level staff
12:21	mircea_popescu	dignork i don't follow ?
12:21	dignork	mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu | this makes corporations win out in any fair contest."
12:22	mircea_popescu	i know what i said, what i don't follow is what you said.
12:22	ThickAsThieves	it always amazed me how much arbitrage opportunity existed on the play exchanges
12:22	dignork	mircea_popescu: just describing situation where person can win
12:22	mircea_popescu	how does the person win ?
12:23	ThickAsThieves	and what is the contest
12:23	mircea_popescu	if you shoot all the board of X corp, what of it ? they just hire new ones.
12:23	dignork	mircea_popescu: if the game was survavibility
12:23	mircea_popescu	a corporation is like a personified feud. it can even lay dormant.
12:23	mircea_popescu	meanwhile banks adding interest to its accounts.
12:25	ThickAsThieves	so mp, with this purified definition of economy, how do we apply it to current situations for benefit?
12:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06476363 = 0.1295 BTC [-] {2}
12:25	ThickAsThieves	like, we discovered quantum computing, now what?
12:26	mircea_popescu	well we apply it to understand what we do and do not understand better, and formalise both.
12:26	mircea_popescu	for instance, what does qc do ? does it attack the forum ?
12:26	mircea_popescu	does it attack the moe ? the wot ? how so ?
12:26	mircea_popescu	it can be fixed once we understand wtf it does.
12:26	ThickAsThieves	hmm
12:26	mircea_popescu	before we do, it's just you know, fretting.
12:28	mircea_popescu	and generally, it's a knife. it allows to cleave reality and the problems of reality into easier to manage bits.
12:28	mircea_popescu	say, the "problem" of x. well... how mcuh of it actually is economical ? that much should be resolved economically.
12:28	mircea_popescu	the rest is probably emotional ? or political ? or whatever the fuck else.
12:28	mircea_popescu	suddenly reality is actionable, which is what makes great science.
12:28	mircea_popescu	(and science great)
12:29	ThickAsThieves	so, it's basic first use would be as a test
12:29	ThickAsThieves	is this an economy or not, etc
12:29	ThickAsThieves	altough you do already claim it is the first real economy
12:30	benkay	good grief it's like everyone disappeared for three days and then came back and pooped it all out on the logs
12:30	mircea_popescu	which claim is that ? i make som any
12:30	benkay	STAHP FOR LOVE OF CHRIST
12:30	mircea_popescu	benkay shuttup and read biotch.
12:30	ThickAsThieves	"It is important to bear in mind however that Bitcoin is merely a tool, that what we’re truly interested in is creating - for the first time in perhaps as long as two centuries - an actual, working economy"
12:31	ThickAsThieves	so not as sweeping as i said
12:31	ThickAsThieves	but pretty broad
12:31	mircea_popescu	yeah. the objection there is not so different from tlp's objection that medicalisation of welfare.
12:31	mircea_popescu	there's been a trend to economize welfare, and that just muddies up everything
12:32	mircea_popescu	not to mention the economization of politics, whereby politics are resisted or promoted on alleged economic grounds.
12:32	mircea_popescu	most of the debate dealing with strictly uneconomic matters.
12:32	benkay	and the economic matters rarely have data on which to base claims.
12:32	ThickAsThieves	i wonder if this could be applied to mmporg guilds, maybe your Rift guild is missing a punishment gazette
12:33	mircea_popescu	it kinda has it, very rudimentarily, as the kick log say.
12:33	benkay	the takeaway for me from the piketty stuff (if anyone cares) is that claims about how money flows are all hot air and lacking in data.
12:33	mircea_popescu	o wow ThickAsThieves check this shit out :
12:33	ThickAsThieves	wait, but is punishment gazette the proper term?
12:33	benkay	humiliation blotter?
12:33	mircea_popescu	i CREATED IT because we have an open guild bank where anyone can take out a stack, but you're not supposed to take out the WHOLE stack of things you can use 1-2 of
12:33	ThickAsThieves	for isn't a positive note possible? and useful?
12:33	mircea_popescu	so i put a note on a guy's "officer notesd" place that hey, you took all our x runes wtf
12:33	mircea_popescu	and he put them back.
12:34	mircea_popescu	so there the fuck you go.
12:34	ThickAsThieves	hah
12:34	mircea_popescu	this theory is useful in design : how to make better mmorpgs.
12:34	mircea_popescu	or countries.
12:34	mircea_popescu	just like, you know, the original adam smith.
12:34	ThickAsThieves	but
12:34	ThickAsThieves	then it starts looking like, everything is an economy
12:34	ThickAsThieves	which you are saying is foolish already
12:34	mircea_popescu	anyway, a "gazette" is this ancient term of "where all the matters of record are published"
12:35	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves everything that moves has some economic part
12:35	ThickAsThieves	right but you call it punishment
12:35	mircea_popescu	much like it has an engine.
12:35	fluffypony	yeah, the issue is with the "punishment" part, not the gazette part
12:35	ThickAsThieves	so maybe i reword to, any organized effort could benefit from a properly implemented economy
12:35	mircea_popescu	punishment is any action upon an agent that happens irrespective of the will of that agent
12:35	mircea_popescu	which is why i'd say punishment is the proper term.
12:36	mircea_popescu	you don't need me to rate me.
12:36	ThickAsThieves	i punish you with my appreciation
12:36	mircea_popescu	sure. maybe i don't want it.
12:36	mircea_popescu	suppose pirate came back and went ;;rate ThickAsThieves 6 trusted guy helped me launder money
12:37	ThickAsThieves	i get what youre saying,
12:37	ThickAsThieves	but i think you might be choosing the wrong word
12:37	ThickAsThieves	no definition of punishment i know would include a positive rating
12:38	ThickAsThieves	whether you want to twist a positive rating into being a punishment seems to me, another thing
12:38	ThickAsThieves	you want your gazette to be impartial and permanent in and of itself
12:38	fluffypony	maybe actaque non persona is better?
12:39	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves well... so maybe the definition is broken you know ?
12:39	ThickAsThieves	lol
12:39	ThickAsThieves	says the guy who wants people to look up words and use them properly
12:39	mircea_popescu	but this is properly ;/
12:39	ThickAsThieves	and you are the dicstionary
12:39	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098314 = 10.2247 BTC [-]
12:39	mircea_popescu	well so what else
12:39	cgcardona_	;;ticker
12:39	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 493.5, Best ask: 494.5, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 493.5, 24 hour volume: 6797.65308914, 24 hour low: 489.77, 24 hour high: 504.9, 24 hour vwap: 496.41813442
12:39	mircea_popescu	gazzette d'actaque non persona
12:40	benkay	(dicktionary)
12:40	fluffypony	there
12:40	fluffypony	I like that
12:40	mircea_popescu	benkay fucktionary!
12:40	fluffypony	much better than punishment gazette
12:40	ThickAsThieves	fictionary
12:40	mircea_popescu	!up VictorM
12:40	assbot	Voicing VictorM for 30 minutes.
12:41	fluffypony	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets
12:41	gribble	Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
12:41	ThickAsThieves	lol
12:41	mircea_popescu	it definitely fits the crime...
12:41	fluffypony	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets
12:41	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
12:41	ThickAsThieves	we are all born sinners after all!
12:42	mircea_popescu	briar patch gazette
12:42	ThickAsThieves	hey look, even my handle has added depth now
12:42	mircea_popescu	tbh i was tempted to outright call it a wot.
12:42	ThickAsThieves	thick as thieves
12:42	cgcardona_	wod web-of-distrust
12:43	mircea_popescu	the trouble is that wot is a horrible name, as it's not OF TRUST in the obvious sense, but in the other one. and it'd seem to discuss the actual web, rather than its notation.
12:43	ThickAsThieves	agreed
12:43	fluffypony	yeah
12:43	mircea_popescu	like the web is the set of websites, not the set of human knowledge
12:43	ThickAsThieves	the Trust part leads to noobs using it wrong
12:43	mircea_popescu	but the wot seems more the latter. yeah.
12:43	fluffypony	let's call it the Bitcoin Social Network instead :-P
12:43	mircea_popescu	the truth being that this shit's so bleedin' advanced ... we are without words.
12:43	mircea_popescu	or urmom.
12:44	mircea_popescu	we could call it urmom gazelle.
12:44	fluffypony	"I rated you a 2 on urmom gazelle"
12:44	ThickAsThieves	whatd they call those medievil books for documenting the deeds of kings, etc
12:44	cgcardona_	web-of-connections
12:44	mircea_popescu	i'm making urmom a better gazelle than the wot ever was, bish.
12:44	benkay	"the wot"?
12:44	benkay	"the what?"
12:44	fluffypony	u wot m8
12:45	benkay	"no, are you in the wot?"
12:45	cgcardona_	wotupwidit
12:45	mircea_popescu	like a chronicle ?
12:45	benkay	"i'm asking you what i'm in!?"
12:45	ThickAsThieves	maybe
12:45	benkay	"let's try this again. does anyone in the wot know you?"
12:45	mircea_popescu	i guess this is actually it.
12:45	benkay	"WHAT WHAT?!"
12:45	mircea_popescu	benkay in the batt.
12:46	fluffypony	benkay: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/307/189/6fe.jpg
12:46	mircea_popescu	.bait ed breath
12:46	ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/f4cc07dd827c081390b84292fc5a14df/tumblr_miug64DweK1r5bmaso1_500.jpg
12:46	ThickAsThieves	she looks like she just had a nice fart
12:46	fluffypony	Network of Awesomeness
12:46	fluffypony	NoA
12:46	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yeah not bad. bated fart.
12:47	benkay	"are you in the no?"
12:47	benkay	the know?
12:47	mircea_popescu	"are you in the no?" "yes"
12:47	ThickAsThieves	what's the password? what.
12:47	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [MS] 150 @ 0.00135202 = 0.2028 BTC [+]
12:48	fluffypony	"the no is like the wot"
12:48	ThickAsThieves	you know what is fucking criminal?
12:48	ThickAsThieves	Opt Out
12:49	ThickAsThieves	ATT sends me email about some privacy shiz and says "To allow AT&T to use your CPNI, no further action is required. "
12:49	mircea_popescu	evil.
12:50	ThickAsThieves	so TOL again (thinking out loud)
12:50	ThickAsThieves	should i be able to add someone to the WoT myself
12:50	ThickAsThieves	like AT&T
12:50	ThickAsThieves	so i can negrate them?
12:50	mircea_popescu	this would be fucking ideal, but unfortunately it'd yield fragmentation.
12:51	mircea_popescu	the wot already has a massive zooke triangle problem
12:51	ThickAsThieves	this seems to be a problem to me
12:51	ThickAsThieves	the chronicles didnt require a king to auth
12:51	fluffypony	zooke triangle? google not giving me love
12:51	mircea_popescu	(and the fact good names aren't being squatted to fuck amazes me, and it is a testament to the fundamental economic ineptitude of geeks)
12:52	benkay	seeking greater ev
12:52	mircea_popescu	fluffypony a naming system can be secure, memorable and global
12:52	ThickAsThieves	it is the chronicle that needed to be auth'd, or the rater
12:52	mircea_popescu	pick two
12:52	benkay	hey so i have my conjectures but how the hell does this work: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/this-tower-pulls-drinking-water-out-of-thin-air-180950399/ ?
12:52	fluffypony	ah
12:52	mircea_popescu	benkay condensation ?
12:53	ThickAsThieves	it says so right on the caption
12:53	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves the chronicles didn't work that fucking well, either.
12:53	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: maybe the WoT should allow rating someone unknown based on their public GPG key, if it is known?
12:53	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves lol i didn't click. i guess he's a slow reader.
12:53	mircea_popescu	fluffypony only one way to verify it is them.
12:53	benkay	mircea_popescu: what delta-t is it leveraging, though?
12:53	benkay	ground?
12:53	mircea_popescu	the problem here is that people interact with an entity calling itself at&t and using a non-gribble method of authing.
12:54	mircea_popescu	so now trust is created that's not wot-based. so in a sense old people are attacking the wot through being... stupid.
12:54	mircea_popescu	this will go away on its own.
12:54	ThickAsThieves	yeah, i think it's only a temporary problem
12:54	mircea_popescu	already good software is gpg based as a matter of course. so what if microsoft doesn't want to sign ?
12:54	ThickAsThieves	but temporary is relative...
12:55	ThickAsThieves	but basically att not being in the wor, makes them a scammer
12:55	ThickAsThieves	but we have no competitors in the wot either
12:56	benkay	(someone start a cell company!)
12:56	ThickAsThieves	lol, you have to actually tick a box on the opt out page https://www.att.com/ecpnioptout/InitiateCPNIForm.action
12:56	ThickAsThieves	it already has no other purpose
12:59	fluffypony	I see ICANN now forces you to verify your email if you list your actual contact details on your domain
12:59	fluffypony	at least, with the domains I registered today I had to
12:59	fluffypony	because email addresses are hard to create.
13:07	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15421 @ 0.00098314 = 15.161 BTC [-]
13:15	benkay	did pLambert ever sort out the signature of that testament?
13:17	TomServo	signed with a weak key, last I saw.
13:18	benkay	was this the key that didn't match the wot key associated with the name?
13:18	benkay	and also
13:18	benkay	;;seen mrs tick ball
13:18	gribble	(seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
13:18	benkay	;;seen mrstickball
13:18	gribble	mrstickball was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <mrstickball> 107 PH.... nice
13:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00098403 = 11.3655 BTC [+] {2}
13:26	mrstickball	hi
13:28	mrstickball	;;gettrust mrstickblal
13:28	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickblal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickblal | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickblal | Rated since: never
13:28	mrstickball	;;gettrust mrstickball
13:28	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickball: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickball | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickball | Rated since: Fri Jul 5 18:09:54 2013
13:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.5245 = 6.294 BTC [-] {2}
13:29	jurov	hahaha dat graph
13:31	benkay	infinity trust
13:35	benkay	what's the trilema line about business being insulated from the public?
13:35	benkay	mircea_popescu: ^^
13:35	benkay	early bitcoin post, talking about the 30B MPEx fee.
13:43	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00098082 = 17.9 BTC [-] {3}
13:49	mircea_popescu	uh
13:49	mircea_popescu	;;google trilema "poisonous offering"
13:49	gribble	Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/>; Strategic superiority, a saga pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga/>; The Ukranian Trilemma - Canadian International Council: <http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/comments (1 more message)
13:49	mircea_popescu	that ?
13:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC
13:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21093 @ 0.00098456 = 20.7673 BTC [+]
13:53	ThickAsThieves	http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/maidsafe-embroiled-safecoin-presale-mastercoin-pump-dump/2014/04/22
13:54	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: I'm so surprised, and I'm sure bitcoinpete will be too
13:54	fluffypony	he had such high hopes for the project
13:56	fluffypony	https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
13:56	ozbot	Bitcoin Address 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
13:56	ThickAsThieves	to all, would you be interested in free Altcoin stickers? note that this would involve providing a mailing address to me or an intermediary
13:56	fluffypony	wtf
13:57	fluffypony	4460 BTC so far?
13:57	kakobrekla	see, i told you retards still have ze money.
13:58	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: I'd love some, can I reimburse you for them?
13:59	mircea_popescu	what is that addy anyway ?
13:59	ThickAsThieves	i could provide a tip address after the fact or such, but no payment would be required
13:59	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: the maidsafe address
13:59	fluffypony	from http://www.safecoin.io
14:00	ThickAsThieves	it's funny how maidsafe will no longer accept mastercoins, the very platform they chose
14:03	ThickAsThieves	DarkMarket is a decentralised P2P marketplace which cannot be shut down. It can be joined by anyone and in many respects it looks rather mature, with identity and reputation rankings, seller pages, multisig escrow, private messaging and privacy features.
14:04	mircea_popescu	is it the first and biggest ?
14:05	fluffypony	assbot: is it amazing?
14:05	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
14:05	ThickAsThieves	it's the taaki-est
14:06	ThickAsThieves	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHVqH8XO1Pk
14:06	ozbot	Airbitz & Libbitcoin Team Up to Create DarkMarket - YouTube
14:06	mircea_popescu	ahahaha WHAT
14:06	jborkl	mircea , got last block, time since last bloc and unconfirmed added also :)
14:07	mircea_popescu	people are like their worst fucking punishments
14:07	ThickAsThieves	i actually have a saying
14:07	ThickAsThieves	The life a man leads is punishment enough.
14:08	ThickAsThieves	the context is more around calming people down when they get all angry about welfare exploiters and such
14:10	ThickAsThieves	haha darkwallet gets a bsod during the presentation
14:11	jborkl	*rename darkwallet bluewallet
14:12	ThickAsThieves	!up only
14:12	assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.
14:13	only	mircea_popescu: not gonna fly, darkmarket?
14:14	jborkl	Darkmeat
14:15	jborkl	Darkmeet <- now that is a good pun
14:15	jborkl	stupid maid service
14:15	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06445866 = 0.1289 BTC [-]
14:15	mircea_popescu	only seems improbable.
14:15	ThickAsThieves	well according to the Popescu Theory of Economics, DarkMarket is missing at least a public forum
14:16	ThickAsThieves	after that i'd have questions about privacy over the system
14:16	mircea_popescu	im sure they have where to whine at each other
14:16	ThickAsThieves	well they have private disupte resolution
14:16	ThickAsThieves	dispute*
14:16	ThickAsThieves	didnt mention forum
14:16	ThickAsThieves	but would be an easy add
14:17	mircea_popescu	anyway, i hope taaki doesn't end up sending intenret hitmen to kill me or something
14:17	ThickAsThieves	just pay them more
14:17	ThickAsThieves	to hit him back
14:17	ThickAsThieves	CREAM
14:17	TomServo	lol
14:17	mircea_popescu	lol
14:17	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99226
14:17	ozbot	A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
14:17	mircea_popescu	this is actually a pretty good q.
14:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 33 @ 0.00757584 = 0.25 BTC [-] {4}
14:19	only	so decentralizing a marketplace is another shitty pipe dream?
14:21	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06410013 = 0.1923 BTC [-] {2}
14:22	ThickAsThieves	depends what your expectation/definition of decentralization is i suppose
14:23	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16644 @ 0.00098898 = 16.4606 BTC [+]
14:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.528745 = 2.115 BTC [+] {3}
14:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5317 BTC [+]
14:27	bounce	to some people "decentralised" is a buzzword. "it must be decentralised!" -- yeah, sure. leaving aside the "how" for a moment (you did think that one through, didn't you?), there's the "then what?" as in how'd you use that in practice? did you just go from a single point of failure to N of those? how does that make the situation better? what if something goes wrong, someone rips you off, et cetera?
14:27	Naphex	i cant wait for decentralized voip with pay2relay telephony
14:28	only	ThickAsThieves: decentralizing the platform (similar to twister) and the escrow
14:28	jurov	benkay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_%28condenser%29
14:28	ThickAsThieves	well you cant decentralize escrow
14:29	bounce	there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?
14:29	only	ThickAsThieves: www.bitrated.com
14:30	dexX7	bitrated relies on a third party as mediator
14:30	ThickAsThieves	the 3rd party is the escrow
14:30	Naphex	set up community tribunal
14:30	Naphex	for mediations
14:31	Naphex	for the lulz
14:31	bounce	that'll be a riot.
14:31	ThickAsThieves	wouldnt you rather have one person that is good at it, than 50 that suck or are ill actors?
14:31	only	ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough?
14:32	ThickAsThieves	that's not decentralization
14:32	ThickAsThieves	decntralization would be distributing the risk, not necessarily randomizing it
14:32	benkay	jurov this thing'd be a radiative collector then?
14:33	Naphex	a normal market with escrow/mediations and marketable ads is enough imho
14:33	ThickAsThieves	some things are worse off decentralized
14:33	jurov	yes. but it tihnk the numbers are BS
14:33	Naphex	yet we still dont have that
14:33	jurov	it can get few liters per night at most
14:34	only	ThickAsThieves: but how is it worse off by being decentralized?
14:34	ThickAsThieves	which "it" do you mean?
14:35	ThickAsThieves	bounce may have already summed it up though
14:36	only	ThickAsThieves: it = consumer-to-consumer marketplace
14:36	jurov	me? i was replying to benkays' water tower sry
14:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06395923 = 0.6396 BTC [-]
14:36	ThickAsThieves	we hadnt discussed the overall decentralizing of a marketplace as a bad thing
14:37	benkay	;;gettrust only
14:37	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user only: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=only | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=only | Rated since: Mon Feb 17 18:33:39 2014
14:37	dexX7	well trustless cross-chain trading is possible (sort of) as well as colored coins <> btc markets
14:37	ThickAsThieves	it would involve dentralizing the software and content
14:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06395923 = 0.1919 BTC [-]
14:37	ThickAsThieves	and then ensuring security and privacy
14:38	ThickAsThieves	which is where their plan is most likely to fail
14:38	ThickAsThieves	but i havent seen their method
14:39	ThickAsThieves	they'd also need to provide same security and privacy to any host of the pieces of the system
14:39	ThickAsThieves	as in, if one person is selling weed in a jurisdiction he is not allowed, and you are host to that, you are now a target
14:42	only	not to mention the kiddie porn
14:44	ThickAsThieves	well that raises another point, if it's really decentralized, how is it moderated?
14:45	ThickAsThieves	not saying it HAS to be moderated
14:45	ThickAsThieves	but...
14:45	dexX7	what are you referring to by "it"?
14:46	ThickAsThieves	the market
14:46	ThickAsThieves	and its contents
14:47	davout	!up only
14:47	assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.
14:47	jborkl	Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years.
15:00	mircea_popescu	yeah what bounce said.
15:00	mircea_popescu	Naphex> set up community tribunal << you know how well that worked, do you.
15:01	mircea_popescu	<only> ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough? << definitely not.
15:09	ThickAsThieves	Blockchain Strikes Five Year Deal to Exclusively Manage Bitcoin.com
15:09	ThickAsThieves	(.info)
15:10	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10437 @ 0.00098898 = 10.322 BTC [+]
15:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2507 @ 0.00098782 = 2.4765 BTC [-]
15:12	Naphex	hehe
15:12	Naphex	mircea_popescu: league of legends
15:13	Naphex	the game actually set up a community tribunal
15:13	Naphex	and its filled with the funniest things ever.
15:18	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03074998 = 0.369 BTC [+] {4}
15:18	Naphex	so let the users post evidence and yell, and let the community decide :D
15:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40673 @ 0.00098103 = 39.9014 BTC [-] {2}
15:22	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 14 @ 0.00800009 = 0.112 BTC [-] {4}
15:28	fluffypony	http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/dogecoin-memes-versus-reality/2014/02/24
15:29	fluffypony	" 75% of the total number of all Dogecoins are held by 0.75% of investors AND this inequity has been INCREASING"
15:30	dexX7	afaik the lol tribunal works quite well and reduced toxic player behavior greatly
15:33	fluffypony	!up only
15:33	assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.
15:34	only	thanks fluffypony
15:34	fluffypony	no problemo
15:35	mircea_popescu	Naphex http://trilema.com/category/rota/
15:35	fluffypony	didn't the rota only have 1 case?
15:36	fluffypony	I would've loved to have seen more
15:36	mircea_popescu	fluffypony it's actually a measure of their thing failing. in the sense they can't pass off the scamcoin fast enough for their dump-and-dillute engine to actually extract enough value out of the environment to keep the ball rolling.
15:36	mircea_popescu	fluffypony yeah, only one case. i suspect now i built it the wrong way,
15:37	dexX7	what would you make different next time?
15:37	mircea_popescu	because YES loltribunals do work, not just on league of legends, but here too.
15:37	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: that article really tears the coin apart...gets a little weird in places, but makes REALLY good points
15:37	mircea_popescu	dexX7 i think it'd look a lot more like bitcoin-assets.
15:38	dexX7	the lol tribunal is so many dimensions less complex than "real" cases so i'm not sure, if it's possible to draw conclusions based on that
15:38	only	"bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?" - can't one hard code an escrow commission into a p2p app?
15:39	fluffypony	hard code can be changed
15:39	bounce	then do so. :-)
15:39	bounce	http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/coinfloor-mulling-plan-to-launch-new-bitcoin-market-for-institutional-investors-29676
15:39	ozbot	Coinfloor Mulling Plan to Launch New Bitcoin Market for Institutional Investors | Forex Minute - Fin
15:40	bounce	then again, if it's p2p, and now you get to pay someone else for the privilege of hosting the service yourself, er, why'd you use the app at all?
15:41	only	you pay that someone for the privilege of using the app he coded
15:42	only	unless there is a free alternative
15:43	only	but why would anyone build one (your argument)
15:45	mircea_popescu	bounce lol. who the fuck is coinfloor again
15:45	chetty	http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/vkontakte-founder-durov-flees-russia-with-no-plans-to-return/498715.html
15:46	mircea_popescu	chetty wb!
15:46	mircea_popescu	people missed you in timisoara
15:46	chetty	thanks MP, yeah bummer I miss all the fun
15:48	bounce	https://coinfloor.co.uk/team says mark lamb, obi nwosu, amadeo pellicce, and "the team" (among them james "nefario" mccarthy as "senior developer")
15:49	mircea_popescu	all famous btc people nobody's heard of.
15:49	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99228 you gotta read this srsly i'm creaming my pants over here.
15:55	davout	!up Oleanie
15:55	assbot	Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.
15:56	Oleanie	;;rate davout 2
15:56	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user davout has been recorded.
15:56	dexX7	<only> can you please voice me?
15:57	davout	!up only
15:57	assbot	Voice for only extended to 30 minutes.
15:59	only	davout, dexX7 was already voiced, but thanks
16:00	dexX7	ah, only saw your query a few seconds ago and didn't really notice
16:01	bounce	such spamm0r
16:01	bounce	lucky this isn't -otc then eh
16:03	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00097978 = 26.4541 BTC [-] {3}
16:03	ThickAsThieves	<+Oleanie> ;;rate davout 2 /// haha davout only gets a 2 from his better half
16:06	davout	ThickAsThieves: yea, teach your gf GPG, end up in an argument about how she only got rated 3
16:07	ThickAsThieves	so by Mirceanomics, Bitcoin is an economy itself, right?
16:07	ThickAsThieves	bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum?
16:07	jurov	how is blockchain the gazette?
16:08	ThickAsThieves	it is a record of all transactions
16:08	ThickAsThieves	including unsuccessful ones, no?
16:08	TomServo	I thought he suggested the WoT was the gazette, and this chan the forum
16:08	chetty	lmao Mirceanomics, a new school is born
16:08	jurov	i understood the gazette as transaction history *with human sematics*
16:08	bounce	haven't really paid attention to exactly what putin said in response to snowden, but them russkies don't appear to engage in dragnet-and-store type surveillance. they know very well who they're after and they're good at it, if not very subtle.
16:08	ThickAsThieves	i'm applying it, not defining it tomservo
16:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18893 @ 0.00098165 = 18.5463 BTC [+] {2}
16:09	jurov	bounce you saw they just openly snatched vkontakte?
16:09	bounce	yeah I read that link
16:10	ThickAsThieves	if the theory can be applied to the Sun and elements, surely applying it to the Bitcoin system isn't absurd
16:10	jurov	only and anybody else: if you have significant coinbr volume amd want voice, ask me
16:10	ThickAsThieves	i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists
16:11	bounce	jurov's trade for ratings programme, now with volume discounts
16:12	jurov	>:D
16:12	chetty	ThickAsThieves, yup, nothing new under the sun. But this version has less trash attached
16:13	jurov	but it reserve the right to decide. even tiberiusiv had some coinbr volume
16:13	jurov	*I reserve
16:14	ThickAsThieves	jurov, also the blockchain does allow storage of text
16:16	jurov	hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings
16:16	ThickAsThieves	mirceanomics speaks nothing of ratings
16:16	jurov	unless everyone agrees on special protocol for the O_RETURN text
16:16	ThickAsThieves	only punishments
16:18	jurov	ooookay , so i'll rephrase specially for you
16:18	jurov	it does not allow punishment records, unless...etc
16:18	ThickAsThieves	could you say that an orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx is a punishment?
16:18	jurov	!up sunshyne
16:18	assbot	Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
16:19	jurov	nope
16:19	ThickAsThieves	why not?
16:19	jurov	how can you cause orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx on purpose whne someone scams you?
16:20	jurov	unless you're kncminer
16:20	ThickAsThieves	i'm merely trying to see whether Bitcoin would qualify as another echo to apply it to, not whether it fits a perfect example
16:20	ThickAsThieves	like the Sun example
16:20	ThickAsThieves	you wont get hydrogen reporting helium for scamming
16:21	ThickAsThieves	i think whether it applies might lead to other interesting things
16:22	ThickAsThieves	i've got this hammer now, and trying to sort out what it can smash and what it can build
16:22	ThickAsThieves	or whether it's a hammer at all
16:22	ThickAsThieves	maybe it's a ruler
16:22	ThickAsThieves	maybe it's a cloud of smoke
16:22	jurov	youre stretching it too extreme... then the blackhole is punishment gazette too
16:23	jurov	if the theory that hawking radiation carries information about whatever fell in
16:23	jurov	is correct
16:23	jurov	*and* you wait 10^10^100 years or so
16:24	ThickAsThieves	to give you an example of what i mean
16:24	ThickAsThieves	say bitcoin is an economy
16:24	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 106 @ 0.03112262 = 3.299 BTC [-] {4}
16:24	ThickAsThieves	is the gazette itself also one? could it be?
16:24	ThickAsThieves	same for he forum
16:25	jurov	i'd think about real world example like pirate's coins or gox coins
16:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0325 = 0.13 BTC [+]
16:26	Naphex	http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html
16:26	jurov	even if they managed to mark them in the blockchain
16:26	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12294 @ 0.00098721 = 12.1368 BTC [+] {2}
16:26	jurov	we need extra-blockchain information to assess them
16:27	jurov	you won't get useful info whether to trust gox from only some "mtgox" tag
16:28	jurov	you need karpeles' head on the pike plus public record what he did
16:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4398 @ 0.00098398 = 4.3275 BTC [-]
16:30	chetty	karpeles record is pretty public
16:31	ThickAsThieves	jurov i somewhat disagree
16:31	ThickAsThieves	(note i'm taking this position for sake of the debate, i have no conclusion)
16:32	ThickAsThieves	first, the theory doesnt require consensus judgment and punishment (head on pike)
16:32	ThickAsThieves	it only requires communicating the actions punishable
16:32	ThickAsThieves	"punishment" in its terms are merely individually given
16:33	ThickAsThieves	and then those would then be interpreted separately by any individual user
16:33	ThickAsThieves	i may decide mark's head didnt belong on a pike
16:33	ThickAsThieves	you may express you think it should be piked
16:33	ThickAsThieves	et
16:33	ThickAsThieves	c
16:34	ThickAsThieves	[16:26] <+jurov> we need extra-blockchain information to assess them /// do we? each address may function as a user/reputation
16:34	ThickAsThieves	and we do have a source for extra-info, the bitcoin software
16:35	ThickAsThieves	it's interesting to me to see how much the 3 separate elements would/could function as economies themselves, and how their traits might converge
16:35	ThickAsThieves	as in the gazette now wants to be decentalized, like bitcoin
16:35	mircea_popescu	o hey
16:35	chetty	if the judgement is individual isnt the choice of information source also individual?
16:36	ThickAsThieves	well just use the WoT for reference
16:36	jurov	okay, my another objection is that rating is not done at the same time as transaction
16:36	ThickAsThieves	is the gazette also an economy?
16:36	mircea_popescu	;;rate Oleanie 1 liked my rose
16:36	gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Oleanie has been recorded.
16:36	ThickAsThieves	jurov that's also not a requirement of the theory as stated
16:37	jurov	no that was my objection to using current bitcoin blockchain
16:37	ThickAsThieves	no requirement to be timely in your rating
16:37	mircea_popescu	<ThickAsThieves> bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum? << it's a very limited economy at that, but i guess so.
16:38	ThickAsThieves	if the WoT is decentralized, and has verification methods, signing, identities, etc, and bitcoin also does, they start to converge in their features
16:38	mircea_popescu	<ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself.
16:38	ThickAsThieves	(bitcoin and the WoT)
16:39	mircea_popescu	<jurov> hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings << 0 to 20, -10 to 10, no diff.
16:39	jurov	yes that's the protocol that must be agreed upon
16:40	ThickAsThieves	what might be the medium of exchange in the WoT? Rating points, right?
16:40	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves it has no medium of exchange it'd seem, because points are created and destroyed
16:40	mircea_popescu	bitcoins, you will note, are never destroyed. neiuther is gold.
16:41	ThickAsThieves	maybe just requires creative interpretation
16:41	mircea_popescu	neither are fiat bills (not in the sense of the physical bill, but in the sense of it being authorised, it'll get reprinted, and trhe bill is that trademark that spawns the authirisation)
16:41	jurov	blockchain.info's "taint analysis" is very crude implementation of WoT, perhaps?
16:41	ThickAsThieves	every user has 40 points they can work with, unto any other user
16:41	ThickAsThieves	you cant create them
16:41	ThickAsThieves	only allocate
16:41	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves this is what someone was proposing at conference, when i introduced fain
16:42	mircea_popescu	and how constants don't work
16:42	mircea_popescu	so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be
16:42	ThickAsThieves	<+mircea_popescu> <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself. /// one thing it reminds me of is your basic escrow deal
16:42	benkay	fain?
16:42	benkay	mircea_popescu: ^^
16:43	mircea_popescu	benkay for years before and some time during bitcoin i had a romanian language digg style thing.
16:43	mircea_popescu	it had no moderators and no spam.
16:43	benkay	no wai
16:43	mircea_popescu	yes wai.
16:43	benkay	perpetuum mobile
16:43	mircea_popescu	it drove most of .ro traffic at some point.
16:44	benkay	wow well extravagant claims etc. how'd you do that?
16:44	mircea_popescu	prop sauce, but basically it leveraged individual actions to evaluate everyone else's.
16:44	mircea_popescu	not so hard to distinguish machines from humans if your machine has a stable with many humans
16:45	ThickAsThieves	<+mircea_popescu> so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be /// well i can accumulate points no? and at any given time, a maximum amount can be had, and every time a user joins anew, the system inflates to accommodate
16:45	jurov	i'd extend a punishment gazette with 3. shared protocol and then maybe public forum can be simplified away
16:45	benkay	mircea_popescu: i assume the normal 'upvoting rings' developed and existed?
16:45	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ?
16:45	mircea_popescu	benkay not effectually, no.
16:46	mircea_popescu	let me dig some pretty graphs.
16:46	ThickAsThieves	my rating points are held by every user that hasnt given them to me yet
16:46	ThickAsThieves	if they take them away, they still exist
16:47	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2012/activitatea-utilizatorilor-pe-fain/
16:47	ozbot	Activitatea utilizatorilor pe fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
16:47	mircea_popescu	there.
16:47	benkay	pretty indeed.
16:47	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2011/sa-desenam-cu-fain/ same thing, earlier
16:47	ozbot	Sa desenam cu fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
16:47	benkay	are collusive rings in these content farms necessarily a bad thing?
16:48	ThickAsThieves	it's not a typical economy, cuz it has allocation idiosyncracies, but i'm not sure if that disqualifies it
16:48	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2011/istoria-unui-proiect-online/ user activity.
16:48	ozbot	Istoria unui proiect online pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
16:48	mircea_popescu	peaks at 10k comments/day
16:48	mircea_popescu	benkay no. they're only bad if they dominate
16:48	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00098529 = 23.4006 BTC [+] {2}
16:48	mircea_popescu	otherwise they form and dissolve naturally.
16:49	ThickAsThieves	in fact, don't people do things at times strictly for the points?
16:49	benkay	what drives formation/dissolution vs dominion?
16:49	jurov	!up cgcardona_
16:49	assbot	Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.
16:50	jurov	!up tyrion70
16:50	assbot	Voicing tyrion70 for 30 minutes.
16:50	cgcardona_	thank you
16:50	mrstickball	benkay: did you need me for anything?
16:51	ThickAsThieves	furthermore, <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ? /// where is it in your theory that this matters?
16:52	ThickAsThieves	also, i'm with jurov, i see some weakness in the gazette/forum definitions and separation
16:53	mircea_popescu	benkay that's ocmplicated.
16:53	ThickAsThieves	first, the gazette does not require identification in your definition
16:53	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves 3.it conserves over time.
16:53	ThickAsThieves	however psuedononymous, it may be, identification is required, right?
16:53	chetty	oh hey, they up the ante on why btc is bad
16:53	chetty	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609971/Disturbing-new-internet-child-abuse-sees-toddlers-raped-burned-live-webcam-paedophiles-use-Bitcoin-stop-traced-warns-police-chief.html
16:53	ozbot	Europol director warns of paedophiles using Bitcoin to view webcams | Mail Online
16:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15979 @ 0.00097873 = 15.6391 BTC [-] {2}
16:54	cgcardona_	wow thats some url slug
16:54	mircea_popescu	chetty daily mail raped babies ?
16:54	mircea_popescu	outrageous. i hope the police catches up with them and gives them what for.
16:54	ThickAsThieves	hmm maybe i dont fully understand the conserving over time aspect
16:55	ThickAsThieves	you mean i can accumulate it?
16:55	mircea_popescu	you familiar with the conservation of energy ?
16:55	mircea_popescu	even if you expend it, it still goes somewhere.
16:55	ThickAsThieves	ah
16:55	ThickAsThieves	but didnt i cover that?
16:56	Naphex	http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26707586
16:56	ozbot	BBC News - Nigeria: Police probe Ibadan 'house of horror'
16:56	mircea_popescu	well, if i unrate you now, where do the points go ?
16:56	ThickAsThieves	you took them from me
16:56	mircea_popescu	"About 150 soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), based in Italy, are heading to each of four countries — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia — in rotational deployments that the Pentagon says will be sustained until further notice." herp.
16:56	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves well so where are they ?
16:57	ThickAsThieves	the system doesnt need to track them visibly because the system allocates for each ouser in it
16:57	ThickAsThieves	for every user, every other user gets 20 neg coins and 20 pos coins
16:57	ThickAsThieves	each user may spend them on each other specific user only
16:58	ThickAsThieves	under the arrangement that you may also take them back
16:58	mircea_popescu	this breaks conservation.
16:59	ThickAsThieves	it doesnt just mean it's an economy with special rules?
16:59	mircea_popescu	nope.
16:59	mircea_popescu	it means it has no moe
16:59	ThickAsThieves	i mean i could certainly barter for rating points
16:59	ThickAsThieves	i could perform services for pos coins, etc
17:00	mircea_popescu	but your proposition was that the rating points are the moe.
17:00	mircea_popescu	if they don't conserve, they're not a moe.
17:00	mircea_popescu	kinda why doge is a dodgy scam : cause their coins don't conserve.
17:00	ThickAsThieves	so the fact that they can be taken back is where it breaks or?
17:00	ThickAsThieves	i missed the specific fault
17:01	mircea_popescu	the fact that the points do not conserve. think of a medium of exchange as a family.
17:01	mircea_popescu	while you can take kids or give them away
17:01	mircea_popescu	you can never kill one.
17:01	ThickAsThieves	when it is a rating point killed?
17:01	mircea_popescu	when you unrate whoever
17:01	ThickAsThieves	you took it back
17:01	ThickAsThieves	it still exists
17:02	ThickAsThieves	you can give it back to me right?
17:02	mircea_popescu	so you want 10 points for each user pair ?
17:02	ThickAsThieves	if it was killed, you couldnt give back to me
17:02	ThickAsThieves	therefore it's not killed
17:02	mircea_popescu	and each new user that joins creates n! coins ?
17:02	ThickAsThieves	right
17:02	mircea_popescu	you got any idea what n! computes to ?
17:02	ThickAsThieves	does it matter?
17:03	mircea_popescu	in a much softer sense than before, this'd be practical.
17:03	ThickAsThieves	thats why the economy has special rules
17:03	ThickAsThieves	it is, for lack of a better term, perfectly and dynamically balanced
17:03	mircea_popescu	i guess if your wotcoin actually works so that every user gets 10 coins for every other user present
17:03	mircea_popescu	then you technically can argue this is a moe.
17:03	ThickAsThieves	bam!
17:03	ThickAsThieves	so that's 2 out of 3
17:04	mircea_popescu	forums are very easy.
17:04	mircea_popescu	as much as an irc chan for your wotcoin can suffice.
17:04	mircea_popescu	takes 1 second.
17:04	ThickAsThieves	to spare me arguing for it, how do you explain forum is an economy?
17:05	mircea_popescu	"forum is an economy" wut ?
17:05	thestringpuller	uh
17:05	thestringpuller	i come back to read "forum is economy"
17:05	ThickAsThieves	my efforts here are to explore whether each of your 3 aspects are an economy themselves
17:05	ThickAsThieves	and in doing do, learn more about how they interact
17:06	mircea_popescu	for all we care 4chan or dtng were economies.
17:06	ThickAsThieves	and if one is not an economy whether that can polish the theory
17:06	mircea_popescu	the moe is "sauce pls" or w/e.
17:06	ThickAsThieves	like, why are the gazette and forum even separate things?
17:06	mircea_popescu	they don't have to be separate in practice
17:06	mircea_popescu	they're separated in theory, like your pulse and blood pressure are separate
17:06	ThickAsThieves	ok
17:06	mircea_popescu	even if you know... you need a blood for both.
17:07	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller sad fate eh.
17:08	mircea_popescu	"The Bureau of Prisons views any bartering among prisoners as fishy" << funny, seeing how they trade is mostly macks.
17:08	ThickAsThieves	it's also possible identifying these all as economies may help distill/evolve the overall theory
17:09	ThickAsThieves	i'm just poking and prodding
17:09	mircea_popescu	surely. it's a good thing.
17:09	mircea_popescu	currently the entire thing is "hey guise, check out this shit i made. i call it... a box cutter. it cuts everything"
17:09	mircea_popescu	it's to be expected we'd live in a world of gashes and slashes for a while.
17:10	benkay	do economies have to conserve over time?
17:10	ThickAsThieves	i also want to demonstrate to others in public so they may be motivated to do a better job than me at prodding it
17:11	benkay	or do things increase the size of the pie?
17:11	ThickAsThieves	rather than sit there and go "oh cool, long live mircea!"
17:11	mircea_popescu	benkay just the moe in order to be a moe.
17:11	jurov	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reyt3uiQqI8 <<< my impression of thickasthieves' arguing
17:11	ozbot	Treadmill Bike - YouTube
17:11	mircea_popescu	and an important point is : practical implementations will be more or less neatly mapped on the theoretical requirements. they may still function
17:11	mircea_popescu	but the theory predicts that specific changes will be observable to reduce or mitigate the damage due to the particular vulnerabilities.
17:12	mircea_popescu	much like kids playing insta-ban specific behaviours they perceive as "unfair"
17:12	mircea_popescu	they're obviously in no sense unfair, but they do break the mapping, which is undesirable.
17:13	mircea_popescu	so if they're playing poker with bad cards (say, easy to recognise the queen of hearts) they may cut the queen of hearts game utility.
17:13	mircea_popescu	like, "but you only get 2/3 of the pot if you win it with a qh" or w/e.
17:14	mircea_popescu	it's nonsense to see such a rule in poker, per se. but in the context, as they're trying to map shit to a deck of cards, it makes sense. the change is due to the flaw.
17:14	mircea_popescu	in this sense, the fiat taboo on counterfitting is nonsensical, but we didn't notice this to be the case until bitcoin mapped better on the actual reality.
17:15	mircea_popescu	similarly, the fiat interdiction on theft, or the bizarre expectations of forumers (whoi mostly live in fiat, cause they're not smart enough for their culture to be programmable by themselves), indignant at hao dares bitbet not "refund"
17:17	chetty	hmm bitcoin actually helps point out all the bad queens that have been mapped around over the years
17:17	mircea_popescu	yup.
17:17	mircea_popescu	well, at least some of them.
17:18	mircea_popescu	people arguing about how bitcoin will be obsoleted by "better tech", like that w3c muppet are mostly talking out of their ears.
17:18	mircea_popescu	imagine, something finding even better hiden queens ? it'll be centuries baby.
17:18	joecool	last i checked we were still using troy ounces for gold
17:18	joecool	and everyone hates that system
17:18	chetty	well I suppose bitcoin will start its own mapping
17:20	benkay	1B -> /n/gAu, eventually.
17:20	benkay	give it three decades.
17:22	mircea_popescu	!up cgcardona_
17:22	assbot	Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.
17:22	cgcardona_	thank you sir. I authed w/ gribble. guess I forgot to !up
17:23	mircea_popescu	:p
17:25	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 11 @ 0.0097 = 0.1067 BTC [+]
17:25	ThickAsThieves	i think my personal !up rule will be, I will up you on your first day, or if you are in mobile situations, otherwise, get with the program
17:26	mircea_popescu	i kinda up new faces
17:27	jurov	well.. that bitbet thing... if someone transferred money in error, it has become common sense to return them
17:28	mircea_popescu	there's nothing common or sensible about common sense
17:28	jurov	i don';t see how abandoning that notion is an improvement
17:28	mircea_popescu	but it depends what you're improving.
17:28	jurov	you clearly label that as improvement
17:28	mircea_popescu	has it become common sense that if you run over someone you back your car up ?
17:28	jurov	i woder how so?
17:28	chetty	there is a difference between error and attempt to cheat ...
17:29	ThickAsThieves	i feel like i missed the beginning of this conversation
17:29	mircea_popescu	i kinda have the same feeling
17:29	jurov	in bitbet case, both can easily be treated in the same way
17:29	mircea_popescu	all things can easily be treated in the same way
17:29	jurov	me sending something to expired addy is in no way harming bitbet
17:30	mircea_popescu	that's not actually true.
17:30	chetty	if you do it a hundred times it is, takes time and effort to clean up
17:30	mircea_popescu	it is harming it in ways you decide to neglect.
17:31	mircea_popescu	which is improper, it's not your place to make that decision. it's bitbet's.
17:31	davout	jurov: the rationale is that if you count as valid bets that were sent very close to the time limit, and refund those who confirmed slightly after, you're creating an incentive to cheat since failure at cheating isn't punished
17:31	mircea_popescu	davout s/punished/punishable/
17:32	ThickAsThieves	what's the current rule, if you miss closing you get a refund, if you miss resolution yer fucked?
17:32	jurov	yes
17:32	mircea_popescu	nah
17:33	davout	isn't it, if you miss either you're fucked ?
17:33	ThickAsThieves	it should be
17:33	mircea_popescu	currently it works like so : if your bet makes it on bitbet after the bet is closed, it goes to dividends. if your bet makes it before it's closed but after an arbitrary time selected by bitbet mods, you get it back minus 1%
17:34	ThickAsThieves	so the only cirumstance for refund is if it's just before closing?
17:34	ThickAsThieves	(in this context)
17:35	ThickAsThieves	why not publish a fixed time, like 10min before close
17:35	mircea_popescu	because it's not fixed, because the bet event can resolve at any given time,
17:35	mircea_popescu	whereas the moderators are human beings.
17:35	ThickAsThieves	but it is closed at one specific time
17:36	ThickAsThieves	nevermind
17:36	mircea_popescu	the interval between where the bet event unexpectedly took place and the time when the mod got around to closing the bet is by its nature variable
17:36	ThickAsThieves	i get it
17:36	jurov	do you have evidence it actually deters cheating?
17:36	mircea_popescu	jurov yes, actually.
17:36	ThickAsThieves	that's actually the best argument ive heard for the arbitrary aspect so far
17:36	ThickAsThieves	surprised it didnt come up before
17:36	mircea_popescu	it's what i've been sayinbg all along, but hey.
17:37	mircea_popescu	form occasionally beats function.
17:37	ThickAsThieves	but the testingunodostres example does still ring sour
17:37	ThickAsThieves	but at least i have a somewhat digestible justfication now
17:38	mircea_popescu	rings sour to me too.
17:38	mircea_popescu	kinda what business is, staying above of an ever rising tide of sour.
17:39	mircea_popescu	http://www.jaktogo.com/
17:39	ozbot	Jaktogo - travel solution for your extra luggage
17:39	mircea_popescu	check out the new terrorist bomber blazer.
17:42	ThickAsThieves	would look nice with a pair of Google Glasses
17:42	bounce	right, that's the first one I head about. there's a few more that produce a similar thing these days though.
17:43	ThickAsThieves	Estimated Next Difficulty:8,193,502,073 (+17.40%)
17:43	ThickAsThieves	http://bitbet.us/bet/740/may-i-suggest-9b-difficulty/?ref=1NfXM69erAWPDdNrZ2k2UkuV7HDPc6Ebwk
17:43	ozbot	BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?
17:43	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22348 @ 0.00095446 = 21.3303 BTC [-] {2}
17:44	bounce	there's (at least) also rufus roo, bagket, and stuffa jacket
17:51	mircea_popescu	it'
17:51	mircea_popescu	s done, the diff ?
17:51	mircea_popescu	.d
17:51	ozbot	6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1170 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6493% in 6d 23h 55m 34s
17:51	mircea_popescu	justabout.
17:51	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC
17:52	ThickAsThieves	i thought my backup drive died while away, turns out it was just the power supply
17:52	ThickAsThieves	never had that happen before
17:55	bounce	now you know. PSUs die too.
17:55	ThickAsThieves	sure, in computers, all the time
17:55	ThickAsThieves	but this is a wall wart
17:56	bounce	well, obviously, /those/ cannot ever die.
17:56	ThickAsThieves	:)
17:57	ThickAsThieves	now yer speakin mah langwidge
		~ 25 minutes ~
18:22	fluffypony	wb ThickAsThieves
18:25	ThickAsThieves	turns out it wasnt the hard drive psu
18:25	ThickAsThieves	i just had the wrong one plugged in
18:25	ThickAsThieves	derp
18:26	ThickAsThieves	my lair is upheaved due to solar installers
18:29	ThickAsThieves	btw
18:30	ThickAsThieves	the missus informs me that part of Mark Cuban's renewal contract with Shark Tank,
18:30	ThickAsThieves	required they no longer take a % of the company for themselves as a requirement to presenters
18:30	ThickAsThieves	and that the policy be *retroactive*
18:31	ThickAsThieves	;;gettrust twizt
18:31	gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user twizt: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=twizt | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=twizt | Rated since: Mon Apr 14 23:22:42 2014
18:35	ThickAsThieves	lol, Wired farts out a whole article cuz GoT has incestual rape scene http://www.wired.com/2014/04/game-of-thrones-rape/
18:35	ThickAsThieves	commenters are all in a tizzy
18:35	ThickAsThieves	"Cry me a river. It's a fucking tv show."
18:35	ThickAsThieves	"o, it's not. It's a public statement made by the director of a TV show which implies that if a woman being raped begins to enjoy it, it was never rape in the first place. This is worthy of discussion since it is tantamount to saying that all women enjoy being raped because deep down, they all love it, and all of their screaming and crying and desperate fighting to defend themselves
18:35	ThickAsThieves	against rape are lies. (Insert obligatory comment about reading TFA before commenting here.)"
18:35	ThickAsThieves	N
18:40	ThickAsThieves	http://rt.com/usa/154120-nypd-hashtag-twitter-police/
18:44	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I'm around now, been out all day.
18:44	fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: I bet they thought that was a good idea at the time
18:45	mircea_popescu	o hey.
18:45	mircea_popescu	Naphex you here ?
18:46	fluffypony	weren't we talking about quantum computing earlier?
18:47	fluffypony	relevant: http://abstrusegoose.com/564
18:49	ThickAsThieves	not exactly flyffypony
18:49	fluffypony	oh it was mentioned in the context of Mirceanomics
18:49	fluffypony	I remember now
18:54	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 502 @ 0.00022073 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {3}
18:58	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.525 = 2.1 BTC [-]
18:59	asciilifeform	http://abstrusegoose.com/564 << this (unfortunately minus the second half!) actually happened.
18:59	ozbot	Abstruse Goose | Quantum Secrets
18:59	asciilifeform	;;google lumped approximation
18:59	gribble	Lumped element model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumped_element_model>; Lumped Approximation - inst.eecs: <http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ee100/fa08/lectures/EE100supplementary_notes_1a.pdf>; Lumped vs. Distributed Systems - CCRMA - Stanford University: <https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/NumericalInt/Lumped_vs_Distributed_Systems.html>
19:00	asciilifeform	used to be, you had to understand maxwell's equations to fuck with electronics
19:00	BingoBoingo	http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99232
19:00	ozbot	A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
19:01	BingoBoingo	Everything comes back to Peirce
19:02	mircea_popescu	seems that way
19:03	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: in case you missed: http://loper-os.org/pub/humans
19:05	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I saw. Seems I'll have to work on clearing up that awful pending legal matter so that I may cross borders next year.
19:05	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: or build glider.
19:06	asciilifeform	me colleagues, viewing photos: 'damnit skip to the next one with the girl!'
19:07	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Maybe that powdered alcohol will be cheap enough to build a rocket, because I don't anticipate it being very drinkable.
19:07	mircea_popescu	"Once the tobacco is on the compound, the pouches wholesale for 50 books of stamps, or $300 each. Each pouch is then broken down into 80 to 100 tiny rollups that cost one book each, or six dollars. A $3 pouch of Bugler ends up retailing inside for about $600—a 20,000% markup."
19:07	asciilifeform	i had to explain that these are not issued at the airport.
19:07	mircea_popescu	holy shit. this is almost as good as the music industry.
19:07	asciilifeform	letmeguess
19:07	asciilifeform	russian prison
19:07	mircea_popescu	mno. us.
19:07	asciilifeform	this is how people get the idea that giant sums move in the prison
19:07	asciilifeform	they don't
19:07	mircea_popescu	http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/02/with-cigarettes-banned-in-most-prisons-gangs-shift-from-drugs-to-smokes.html#url=/articles/2013/06/02/with-cigarettes-banned-in-most-prisons-gangs-shift-from-drugs-to-smokes.html
19:07	ozbot	With Cigarettes Banned In Most Prisons, Gangs Shift From Drugs To Smokes - The Daily Beast
19:07	asciilifeform	the prices are merely reflective of scarcity.
19:08	asciilifeform	like washington housing.
19:08	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: one day (tm) we rocket straight out of this pisshole, never look back.
19:09	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform they do, to the same degree huge sums move in us banking system.
19:09	mircea_popescu	"hgere's a book of stamps worth 3 trn"
19:09	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30656 @ 0.00095738 = 29.3494 BTC [+] {2}
19:09	asciilifeform	lol
19:09	BingoBoingo	Still the other medium of exchange (stamps) have a fixed value outside the prison
19:09	mircea_popescu	"here's a debentures package in exchange, worth 5 trn. good deal for you"
19:09	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo yes. fixed to 0.
19:09	mircea_popescu	who the fuck uses stamps.
19:09	BingoBoingo	I do rather frequently.
19:09	asciilifeform	can't recall the last time using stamp
19:10	mircea_popescu	you're a weirdo.
19:10	asciilifeform	aye
19:10	BingoBoingo	I've also on occasion GPG signed snail mail
19:10	mircea_popescu	last time i used stamps i was making lolpasties for tits.
19:10	asciilifeform	even mailing cheques, nowadays one generally uses bank feature that autoprints one and mails
19:11	benkay	asciilifeform: and yet i have to explain this to just about 1/3 clients.
19:11	benkay	granted, my clients are small and derpy with the technology.
19:12	BingoBoingo	Well most of the communication with the lawyer has been either in person or over the mail.
19:14	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: re: rocketing out of pesthole - http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Home_20Escape_20Vehicle
19:16	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Very interesting. I was actually thinking about maybe going cheap and just canoeing the mississippi and gulf coast to Mexico
19:17	asciilifeform	http://www.halfbakery.com/user/dsm
19:17	ozbot	dsm
19:17	asciilifeform	yours truly as bored schoolboy
19:17	mircea_popescu	!up alexsanjose
19:17	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
19:18	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Now I'm going to have to digest that entire site's text
19:18	asciilifeform	lul, don't, it's horrifying
19:19	BingoBoingo	horrifying text is the best
19:19	mircea_popescu	anyway. BingoBoingo how would you like to do some btc/usd arbitrage for me too ?
19:20	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I don't think I have the time to effectively do btc/usd artbitrage
19:20	mircea_popescu	it's basically just a scaled up version of the atc thing
19:22	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose you the reuters chick ?
19:22	BingoBoingo	Well, the outstanding student loan debts make holding any substantial USD impractical
19:22	mircea_popescu	i'd be holding it.
19:22	mircea_popescu	on this tiny romanian exchange Naphex's been trying to get into shape
19:22	mircea_popescu	currently the spread is wider than my fist.
19:23	mircea_popescu	(to speak you type in the bottom bar and hit enter)
19:23	fluffypony	mircea_popescu: can't be much volume tho?
19:24	mircea_popescu	fluffypony wouldn't be much, no.
19:24	BingoBoingo	I don't think I've ever worked to narrow a spread. I've tried to keep the ATC spread as wide as Hilary's ass.
19:24	mircea_popescu	lol
19:24	mircea_popescu	spreads narrow naturally.
19:24	BingoBoingo	I'll think on it.
19:25	mircea_popescu	anyway, my idea is, ima open an acct, give you 10 btc or w/e, you can trade around but not withdraw.
		↖
19:25	BingoBoingo	That might work.
19:25	mircea_popescu	course gotta see if the guy's amenable to it too, but otherwise should be win-win-win, he gets some activity, you get more trading experience, i get some gains or w/e.
19:26	fluffypony	I played around with arbitrage on BitX.co.za, crappy local exchange, as it generally sits ~5% above Bitstamp, but with a daily volume of ~10 BTC it ends up being a lot of work for maybe $50 in profit
19:29	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: If he's amenable to the thing I'll probably be inclined to try it as there's a bit more details nao. I'm going to drink on this idea and let tomorrow's hangover show the way.
19:30	benkay	how are you still getting hangovers, BingoBoingo
19:30	mircea_popescu	works. show up on some sort of romanian time tho, otherwise we'll be all thestringpullering this for a week :D
19:30	benkay	HO HO ZING
19:30	mircea_popescu	benkay liver transplant.
19:31	BingoBoingo	Oh, what did thestringpuller do recently?
19:31	benkay	constantly pinging myself and mod6 in -assets
19:31	BingoBoingo	Ah
19:31	benkay	leastaways, i assume that's what mircea_popescu 's on about
19:31	mircea_popescu	poor guy. we love you still thestringpuller, it's just cute is all.
19:32	BingoBoingo	benkay: I still get hangovers because I drink to win.
19:32	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: quitting is for losers
19:33	benkay	to be fair to thestringpuller mod6 and i've been unpredictably online lately
19:33	benkay	caught a message in the middle of marinading pork over the weekend, f'r instance.
19:34	benkay	"nuh-uh, buddy. busy cooking atm."
19:35	mircea_popescu	benkay i made epic bbq rib today.
19:35	BingoBoingo	Is there any other kind?
19:35	mircea_popescu	well there's lousy...
19:35	mircea_popescu	but i don;t make that.
19:36	BingoBoingo	Sometime this summer I want to try a standing beef rib roast on the kettle grill.
19:36	fluffypony	I had a braai (bbq) last night, also did ribs
19:36	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53149999 BTC [+]
19:36	fluffypony	although I think I'm over pork ribs, going back to beef
19:36	dexX7	http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/ << who is who? =D
19:36	mircea_popescu	this was open gas oven. not ideal, but i found a way to use the cast iron pan's handle to prop the door open just enough. gets it reasonably cool.
19:37	BingoBoingo	Interesting.
19:38	fluffypony	BingoBoingo: that's the way forward, I tend to burn my meat a lil' on an open flame, but in the Weber I can shove the coals to the side and let it cook at leisure
19:38	benkay	coal grilling?
19:38	benkay	take me back.,
19:38	fluffypony	wood oals
19:38	fluffypony	*coals
19:38	BingoBoingo	benkay: Well charcoal.
19:38	fluffypony	^^
19:39	benkay	no i mean takes me back to middle school when i was learning to grill caveman style
19:39	BingoBoingo	Ah
19:39	benkay	these days all i want is a hot gas flowing by
19:39	fluffypony	gas doesn't give the meat the same flavour
19:39	benkay	ya well
19:39	BingoBoingo	I haven't seen many gas grills that can get hot enough for steaks.
19:39	fluffypony	plus a charcoal braai is a South African tradition, we even have a public holiday that has become Braai Day (nfi what the actual holiday is for any longer)
19:39	benkay	there are tradeoffs everywhere.
19:40	benkay	BingoBoingo: lolwut
19:40	benkay	hot enough for Maillard on the surface?
19:40	fluffypony	benkay: gas is awesome for breakfast, nothing like a good morning fry-up
19:41	BingoBoingo	benkay: Well hot enough for a proper sear.
19:41	fluffypony	I'm with BingoBoingo on this one - if you're going to sear a steak...
19:41	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo dude you nuts, gas burns at like 2k degrees
19:41	mircea_popescu	it's hot enough to work glass and forge steel.
19:42	*	fluffypony ponders a 2am leftover rib snack
19:42	fluffypony	crap is it that late
19:43	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: American gas grills typically top out around 600F at a cooking height above the burners. Because we suck. (problem can be remedied by using acetylene instead of propane
19:43	BingoBoingo	)
19:43	moiety	lol fluffypony i replied to that thread on btctalk.
19:43	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo europe uses nat gas. ch4 burns hot.
19:44	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: 'Murica uses Propane
19:44	mircea_popescu	propane sucks.
19:44	BingoBoingo	On grils
19:44	mircea_popescu	it smells bad too
19:44	BingoBoingo	Yeah
19:44	mircea_popescu	i mean ppl say "gas is not the same flavour", but : propane stinks.
19:44	mircea_popescu	methane is inodorous.
19:44	benkay	oh
19:44	benkay	see i typically cook on grills wired into the natural gas
19:44	BingoBoingo	Inside gas is still CH4, but LPG in portable tanks is propane primarily
19:44	fluffypony	moiety: did you at least get a pink knitted jersey with the Bitcoin logo on it?
19:45	moiety	hello all
19:45	benkay	ey moiety
19:45	moiety	fluffypony: i didn't even go to the site
19:45	moiety	ooh benkay sans `
19:45	BingoBoingo	People out in the boonies use propane for household use if they lack infrastructure for real gas
19:46	BingoBoingo	hello moiety
19:46	moiety	mircea_popescu: re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2014#634572 you mean like: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/china-canned-air-chen-guangbiao-chinese-millionaire_n_2574901.html ? :D
19:46	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00096232 = 21.171 BTC [+] {2}
19:47	moiety	hi BingoBoingo :D how's you?
19:47	BingoBoingo	Not bad
19:47	BingoBoingo	!up alexsanjose
19:47	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
19:52	BingoBoingo	Oh, rabite got voiced this morning?
19:52	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00096334 = 23.2165 BTC [+]
19:53	ThickAsThieves	"The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau told CNN that its approval of Palchohol was an error."
19:54	joecool	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiabeNR_q0U ?
19:54	ozbot	Perri-Air - YouTube
19:55	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: Have you read any of the paper work on the hows of it?
19:56	ThickAsThieves	i have not
19:56	ThickAsThieves	while i see no reason it shouldnt be legal, it's obviously gonna destroy some shit
19:57	ThickAsThieves	"5. How is it made? If we told you, we'd have to shoot you. We are in the process of patenting it and it is currently patent pending."
19:57	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: My objection to it as recreational consumer is that the carbohydrates are going to make shit too sweet.
19:58	ThickAsThieves	"Palcohol is gluten free."
19:58	ThickAsThieves	lol
19:58	BingoBoingo	Basically you disolve the alcohol into a mix of sugars and higher molecular weight carbohydrates.
19:59	BingoBoingo	And it seems by weight they can't even get that much alcohol into the stuff.
20:00	ThickAsThieves	they claim the weight is intentional
20:00	ThickAsThieves	to deter snorters
20:01	BingoBoingo	...
20:02	BingoBoingo	The weight is necessary, because alcohol is a substance
20:02	BingoBoingo	with physical properties
20:04	ThickAsThieves	http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013
20:04	ozbot	Butterfly Labs Production of Requested Information (December 6, 2013)
20:04	BingoBoingo	It's physical properties preclude it from being as snortable as say... cocaine and heroin... because it takes quite a bit of alcohol by mass to induce the desired effect.
20:06	ThickAsThieves	meanwhile the BFL 28nm chips still havent shipped?
20:07	BingoBoingo	They have not to my knowledge
20:07	mircea_popescu	moiety i wonder if there's any money in "famous star queefs"
20:07	mircea_popescu	"buy a bottle of angelina jolie's pussy air!"
20:08	benkay	cunt drafts
20:09	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo yes.
20:10	BingoBoingo	Spz an one ounce shot of vodka, which is ~32 grams... That's about 10 grams of ETOH plus binders to get up the nose
20:11	BingoBoingo	Once the binders are accounted for that's probably still in the end 32 grams just to take a shot of vodka nasally.
20:11	joecool	i assume insufflation of alcohol would be a bad time, does it even matter to bulk it up?
20:12	joecool	i would guess it would burn and end up with instant bloody nose if you tried
20:12	moiety	lol mircea_popescu i'd imagine some celebrities would be cheaper and more supply than others, like lindsay lohan compared to lisa kudrow for example
20:13	BingoBoingo	joecool: Well the bulk is necessary to render it a powder
20:15	mircea_popescu	moiety i wonder if portia de rossi cuntair would go for more than lisa kudrwo cunt air
20:16	mircea_popescu	seeing how... lezzie, no cock stink.
20:16	joecool	BingoBoingo: what are they using as a bulking agent, dextrose?
20:16	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo one chick i knew was on a half bottle of white wine anally pre-going to town diet for a while.
20:17	mircea_popescu	relaxed her nicely.
20:17	mircea_popescu	just as good as snorting except much better.
20:17	BingoBoingo	joecool: Older attempts indeed used dextrose along with some heavier carbohydrates. Probably the same or similar here
20:18	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Indeed. That route of administration has a reputation for efficiency
20:18	moiety	mircea_popescu: i think it would, she wins on the exotic front
20:18	moiety	what a waste of wine
20:19	moiety	oh i was getting portia totally mixed up... but i stand by my yes
20:20	moiety	i was thinking of Isabella Rossellini
20:21	moiety	ah its nice to be back lol
20:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33781 @ 0.00096334 = 32.5426 BTC [+]
20:23	BingoBoingo	I wonder how much some Maya Angelou or Angela Merkel would go for.
20:26	mod6	eew
20:27	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.0048 = 0.288 BTC [+]
20:32	moiety	these need to be on the rare whiffs section BingoBoingo
20:32	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.0009568 = 27.6515 BTC [-] {2}
20:33	BingoBoingo	moiety: Naturally, but definitely not on the discount whiffs.
20:33	moiety	political pussys
20:33	moiety	oh of course
20:35	ThickAsThieves	"A massive computer failure at the US Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) is reportedly wreaking havoc on US immigration courts, with application outages continuing well into their second week."
20:36	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: http://valleywag.gawker.com/emperor-of-the-glassholes-finally-feels-shame-1566277951/+sarah-hedgecock
20:38	ThickAsThieves	i havent adorned mine since the week they arrived...
20:38	ThickAsThieves	i'm embarassed to wear them around the house, nevermind in public
20:39	ThickAsThieves	they had that one day where anyone could buy a Google Glass, that was probably them cashing out
20:39	BingoBoingo	I think that is all of the endorsement Google Glass needs. Abandoned faster than NeoBBQ
20:40	moiety	it's funny what's said about glass at coachella, when there was a giant snail going about filming everything
20:41	kakobrekla	!up alexsanjose
20:41	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
20:46	kakobrekla	hi alexsanjose , you may type in this box
20:46	alexsanjose	hi thanks kakobrekla
20:46	alexsanjose	your user name is way better than mine btw
20:47	BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/BrendanKutyNJ/statuses/458718232867008512
20:47	ozbot	Twitter / BrendanKutyNJ: #RedSox fan mocking #yankees ...
20:47	kakobrekla	lol, thanks but yours isnt bad either!
20:47	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: He's had more time to practice his username
20:47	kakobrekla	so if i get this correctly you want to speak with mircea_popescu
20:47	alexsanjose	yes
20:49	kakobrekla	well hopefully he pops back in soon enough
20:49	alexsanjose	would there be a way to sked a chat in here?
20:50	kakobrekla	he is online most of the any day.
20:50	kakobrekla	:)
20:50	alexsanjose	i m such a luddite
20:50	alexsanjose	ok
20:50	BingoBoingo	Seriously. He is nearly always online.
20:50	asciilifeform	re: solid alcohol: the word is clathrate.
20:50	asciilifeform	;;google clathrate
20:50	gribble	Clathrate compound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_compound>; Methane clathrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate>; Clathrate hydrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_hydrate>
20:51	alexsanjose	not too good for a cocktail
20:51	kakobrekla	alexsanjose , IRC is not always a real time thing, but once you get the conversation going its the best way to go
20:51	alexsanjose	understood
20:51	ThickAsThieves	it is like 4am in mp's timezone though
20:51	alexsanjose	what time zone are you/mircea in ?
20:51	alexsanjose	ah
20:51	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I had a suspicion you'd be the first person to bring the c-word into this
20:51	asciilifeform	why.
20:52	kakobrekla	yes but in his internal clock that is like 6 pm.
20:52	asciilifeform	chemistry, i didn't invent.
20:52	asciilifeform	it sort of existed without me
20:52	asciilifeform	like many other useful things
20:52	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Your general technical curiosity would lead you to find it if you hadn't had it already
20:53	asciilifeform	re: arbitrage people - i've an arbitrobot, common lisp, sits sadly, 'cockpit glass to the sky, wings with holes'
20:53	alexsanjose	hmm its nearly 8 pm here. perhaps i should try back tomorrow morning
20:53	alexsanjose	if i can figure out how to log back in with my crappy user name :)
20:54	kakobrekla	lol, no sweat.
20:54	asciilifeform	and wtf the point of solid ethanol? snorting?
20:54	asciilifeform	the brits already have a monstrosity where you breathe EtOH through a mask
20:54	asciilifeform	no distillation byproduct oils, no hangover.
20:54	kakobrekla	alexsanjose at least we got you talking
20:54	asciilifeform	but, why.
20:54	alexsanjose	haha
20:54	alexsanjose	yes
20:54	alexsanjose	baby steps
20:55	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Seems the impetus is novelty sales.
20:55	alexsanjose	pretty soon i ll be commenting openly on solid ethanol
20:55	alexsanjose	thanks for your help kakobrekla
20:55	kakobrekla	welcome
20:56	kakobrekla	hopefully someone will voice you when you rejoin
20:56	kakobrekla	if not, try to bug someone on private (usually you can open a private window by doublecliking on the nickname)
20:57	asciilifeform	re: cooking with acetylene - fellow DIY crackpot suggested to me, hooking an oxygen cylinder to the air intake of laser cutter in place of compressor
20:57	asciilifeform	apparently cuts sheet steel!
20:57	TestingUnoDosTre	ill keep an eye out
20:57	asciilifeform	(down side - might end up 'Darkman')
20:57	BingoBoingo	Thankfully ETOH troche's already exist (Jello Shots in the vulgate)
20:59	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose so what;s up ?
21:00	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo prolly has a pantryfull of golda meir stashed away.
21:00	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: How'd you guess?
21:01	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i have powers. atm, watch me ping pong with my alex alt to troll kako.
21:01	kakobrekla	you did not say that.
21:01	mircea_popescu	twasn't me.
21:02	asciilifeform	;;google water torch
21:02	gribble	Water torch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torch>; DIY HHO Torch (Water Torch) for only $4 - Instructables: <http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-HHO-Torch-Water-Torch-for-only-4/>; turn water to fire - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwlOw7iCNrI>
21:02	asciilifeform	that'd go great with laser.
21:02	BingoBoingo	I keep the Golda Meir next to Menachem Begin's cunny wafts
21:02	mircea_popescu	these people and their names. zeev dov ? srsly ?
21:02	mircea_popescu	makes dweezil sound tame.
21:03	asciilifeform	doron zeilberger.
21:04	TestingUnoDosTre	i don't see these people?
21:04	mircea_popescu	http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/OPINIONS.html not so bad.
21:04	ozbot	Opinions of Doron Zeilberger
21:04	asciilifeform	him.
21:04	asciilifeform	linked off my site's sidebar.
21:05	mircea_popescu	"It is about time to abolish the immoral institution of `Anonymous Referee'. Even in the paper era, with its paper-mentality elitism, it was superfluous. A paper is either worth publishing or not. If it is not, you should have the guts to say it out loud, and if you are right, the author should thank you for saving him or her embarrassment."
21:06	asciilifeform	anyone who ever took part in the academia racket knows that 'anonymous referees' is a crock o'shit
21:06	asciilifeform	you can always tell who the 'mean girlz' are
21:07	BingoBoingo	Pretty much
21:08	thestringpuller	asciilifeform have you ever seen warehouse 13?
21:08	asciilifeform	negative
21:08	thestringpuller	you remind me of a character from that show
21:09	thestringpuller	;;ident
21:09	gribble	Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is not identified.
21:09	thestringpuller	^^^
21:09	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: see voiced with no auth
21:09	mircea_popescu	is it good or bad when one reminds of show characters ?
21:09	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller yes, if gribble blinks. i was in that situation earier today
21:09	thestringpuller	in this case it's a good thing
21:09	BingoBoingo	Probably depends on show and character
21:09	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo overall.
21:10	asciilifeform	i was recently accused of being rick, from 'rick and morty'
21:10	BingoBoingo	Given the number of shit shows and shit characters, the default assumption probably ought to be negative, but there is probably a positive bias because these things tend to happen on the basic that the characters were memorable
21:11	thestringpuller	asciilifeform: that's a compliment if I ever heard one
21:11	thestringpuller	since rick is probably what I'd want to be if I were a grandpa
21:12	BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: Why aren't you a grandpa?
21:12	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00096019 = 17.8595 BTC [+]
21:12	BingoBoingo	!up alexsanjose
21:12	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
21:13	alexsanjose	hello
21:13	mircea_popescu	hey alexsanjose
21:13	thestringpuller	BingoBoingo: i would first have to have kids no?
21:13	mircea_popescu	imo asciilifeform is 100% dexter, boy genius.
21:13	TestingUnoDosTre	hahaha
21:13	mircea_popescu	we just need to engineer him a blue eyed, goldilocks'd ballerina
21:13	BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: Sure
21:13	mircea_popescu	to ruin his show.
21:13	alexsanjose	hi mircea
21:14	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu used to watch dexter's lab? wow
21:14	thestringpuller	@_@
21:14	alexsanjose	i understand its like 4 am your time
21:14	mircea_popescu	i like 3 cartoon shows, cow and chicken, animaniacs and dexter's lab.
21:14	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose i don't keep regular hours.
21:14	alexsanjose	needless to say
21:14	alexsanjose	:_
21:14	alexsanjose	:)
21:14	mircea_popescu	lol
21:14	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: most people here don't keep close to regular hours
21:14	mircea_popescu	http://i.cdn.turner.com/asfix/repository/8a250ba13f865824013fc9db8b6b0400/thumbnail_751543065560118081.jpg << rick and morty do timisoara.
21:15	alexsanjose	you sure? i can happily bug you tomorrow
21:15	mircea_popescu	makes no difference.
21:15	alexsanjose	ok
21:15	TestingUnoDosTre	are you talking to yourself? I'm confused here
21:16	mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre well... maybe it's late where you are ? :D
21:16	alexsanjose	so, i guess to start i was wondering if you could tell me what your role is w BitBet
21:16	mircea_popescu	i'm a cofounder.
21:16	mircea_popescu	did you read the contract, incidentally ?
21:17	alexsanjose	me? no
21:17	TestingUnoDosTre	whyd you say "watch me ping pong with my alex alt to troll kako" ?
21:17	alexsanjose	what contract?
21:17	BingoBoingo	http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.BBET
21:17	ozbot	S.BBET last 357@0.00055999
21:17	BingoBoingo	^^
21:17	BingoBoingo	The contract is on the MPEx page for the security
21:17	mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre yes, but I WAS TROLLING KAKO when i said that.
21:17	mircea_popescu	see ? double meta.
21:18	BingoBoingo	Neta?
21:18	alexsanjose	wow lots of info thanks
21:18	BingoBoingo	Personally I am waiting for S.MNKY
21:20	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Where did you first hear about BitBet?
21:21	mircea_popescu	ɰeta
21:23	alexsanjose	I saw it on a website that was evaluating bitcoin gambling sites
21:23	alexsanjose	cant remember which
21:24	alexsanjose	so, mircea_popescu, what drove u and your cofounder to set up bitbet
21:24	BingoBoingo	Plz tell me it was thissun http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/
21:25	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose did you read http://trilema.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/ ?
21:26	mircea_popescu	"He’s ostentatious – he once folded up paper airplanes made of money and threw them from Vkontakte office windows."
21:26	mircea_popescu	this is supposed to be ostentatious ? since when is russian paper worth anything ?
21:28	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: rick and morty do timisoara << lol! morty is 'rotor'!
21:28	asciilifeform	(for some reason i always thought of this situation as 'rotor/stators')
21:30	alexsanjose	hmm ok
21:30	alexsanjose	thats a primer on sniffing out fraud
21:31	mircea_popescu	you're missing a lot of history. at the time i made mpex, there existed a "competitor", glbse. it was basically a scam, and has meanwhile died
21:31	mircea_popescu	(and reincarnated, and died again, 3x)
21:31	alexsanjose	ok
21:31	mircea_popescu	at the time we made bitbet, there also existed a "competitor", i forget the exact thing
21:31	mircea_popescu	it also died
21:31	mircea_popescu	betssomething
21:31	alexsanjose	ah
21:31	mircea_popescu	it's a pattern, this.
21:31	asciilifeform	reincarnated, and died again << 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!'
21:32	alexsanjose	but what made you decide in jan 2013 that this would be a good business to get into?
21:32	asciilifeform	('lenin - lived, lenin - lives, lenin - shall live!')
21:32	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you ever found http://trilema.com/2010/lich/ btw ?
21:32	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: The erstwhile competitor to BitBet was betsofbitco.in (Operator has since disappeared)
21:32	asciilifeform	http://www.davno.ru/assets/images/posters/big/poster-1967a.jpg
21:32	alexsanjose	thanks
21:32	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose i don't do business per se. i tend to provide critical infrastructure pieces for bitcoin finance is all.
21:33	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: lich << yes!
21:33	mircea_popescu	one of my fav stories, koscei
21:34	asciilifeform	same.
21:35	asciilifeform	'Fairy Tales are blamed for teaching children that there are such things as monsters. Children already know that there are monsters. What Fairy Tales really teach is that monsters can be killed.'
21:35	alexsanjose	but when u earn 1.19395524 BTC in March, a portion goes to shareholders, a portion to operations and a portion to u no?
21:35	mircea_popescu	and perhaps also should.
21:35	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose i'm worth about a million give or take.
21:35	alexsanjose	:)
21:35	alexsanjose	what currency?
21:36	mircea_popescu	bitcoin, which obviously isn't a currency.
21:36	alexsanjose	ok
21:36	mircea_popescu	i'm also worth a few million atc, i guess, which is a similar problem. what sort of business opportunity did i see there ?
21:36	mircea_popescu	well... not exactly business per se.
21:36	asciilifeform	alexsanjose: what was your guess? zimbabwe dollars?
21:36	alexsanjose	hahaha
21:37	alexsanjose	colones
21:37	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2010/portret-al-artistului-la-tinerete/
21:37	ozbot	Portret al artistului la tinerete pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
21:37	mircea_popescu	that's about 1mn colones or so.
21:37	alexsanjose	so i read the faq on the website, but can you walk me thru placing a bet?
21:37	mircea_popescu	i guess... ANY currency. hey, cool.
21:37	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose do you have a bitcoin wallet ?
21:38	alexsanjose	no
21:38	alexsanjose	i m a consommate luddite
21:38	asciilifeform	alexsanjose: it takes about the same titanic intellectual effort as operating... a lift.
21:38	mircea_popescu	well then we got problems.
21:38	alexsanjose	why s that
21:38	mircea_popescu	consummate ?
21:38	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: We're going to flip a coin.
21:38	BingoBoingo	Heads is Multibit, tails is Electrum
21:38	mircea_popescu	well because without bitcoin you don't exist. also because you need it to bet on bitbet.
21:39	mircea_popescu	!up btclovernick
21:39	assbot	Voicing btclovernick for 30 minutes.
21:39	alexsanjose	hard currency is so 2009 i know :)
21:40	mircea_popescu	not all that useful these days.
21:40	BingoBoingo	Currency died in the 1970's it is all about assets nao
21:40	btclovernick	what
21:40	btclovernick	why is price below $500
21:40	kakobrekla	and now !down ...
21:40	mircea_popescu	btclovernick well had you been here asking earlier it could have been perhaps averted
21:40	BingoBoingo	btclovernick: Because Bitstamp fractional reserve
21:40	alexsanjose	i was just surprised because i know the sites i m familiar with require custoemrs to set up an account
21:40	alexsanjose	transfer money from their wallet
21:41	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose that'd be part of the great power of bitcoin. you don't need accounts.
21:41	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: They way Bitbet works is everything is tied to addresses
21:41	btclovernick	mircea_popescu assobt?
21:41	btclovernick	what do u mean
21:41	mircea_popescu	!down btclovernick
21:41	BingoBoingo	Instead of accounts everything is merely a ledger balance, forced into the right place
21:42	BingoBoingo	Through a respect for the immutability of actual history
21:42	asciilifeform	http://www.mirrorpix.com/webgate/preview.php?UURL=5f26f3f6959bc55c7f5a2d0f178fa26b&IMGID=00204661
21:42	ozbot	Preview
21:42	asciilifeform	(re: price wtf)
21:43	kakobrekla	!up alexsanjose
21:43	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
21:43	alexsanjose	thanks
21:43	alexsanjose	so if i bet that obama is going to say bitcoin before 2015
21:44	alexsanjose	it costs me 0.22 BTC if i want to bet yes?
21:45	asciilifeform	this'll be like yeltsin, standing on tank, saying '-former- soviet union.'
21:45	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose you can bey any sum you wish.
21:45	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: You can place any amount. It may be easier if you go through the process of placing a position on BitBet. I can give/lend you a balance to do this depending on your agency's ethic's rules.
21:45	alexsanjose	kind of u
21:45	mircea_popescu	ya srsly.
21:46	alexsanjose	prolly some sort of ethics violation there. i ll ask tho
21:46	alexsanjose	so u bet the sum that u wish
21:46	BingoBoingo	Right
21:46	alexsanjose	and the odds below lay out your earnings should u win
21:46	BingoBoingo	Well, odds given existing bets.
21:46	BingoBoingo	Large bets can move the pot considerably.
21:46	alexsanjose	ie, if u bet 1 btc, and obama says it before jan 2015, you get 1.24683344 BTC
21:47	BingoBoingo	The thing is mutual betting so it is pile of money and weight versus other pile of money and weight.
21:47	mircea_popescu	so far.
21:47	BingoBoingo	To guarentee odds you may need to place multiple bets.
21:47	alexsanjose	hmm
21:47	BingoBoingo	It's like a prediction market but sane
21:48	BingoBoingo	Not simple, but sane
21:48	alexsanjose	the odds shift as the numbers of players and amounts of bets shifts the balance on either side?
21:48	mircea_popescu	yes.
21:48	asciilifeform	other fun feature, in my eyes, is that a prediction market has an... action market, 'inside, wiggling to get out.'
21:48	BingoBoingo	And bets are committed until the bet's resolution.
21:49	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: And that is what decay's sanity. Not the stress, but the roundworms
21:49	alexsanjose	but on the mechanics of it, kust to be simple, assuming the odds dont change -- i put in 1 btc and get out 1.24 if i win
21:49	alexsanjose	if i lose i lose the entire 1 btc i bet, correct?
21:49	mircea_popescu	https://twitter.com/anjiecast/status/458754630827388928 << and nell says derping nao.
21:49	ozbot	Twitter / anjiecast: Aaron Sorkin apologizes for ...
21:49	BingoBoingo	If you lose you lose your whole stake
21:49	alexsanjose	wouldnt i tho?
21:50	BingoBoingo	If you win though, it really depends on what happens to the pot after you place your bet. You could win more or less.
21:50	alexsanjose	its february, 2015. obama has overlooked a growing trend and failed to mention those two syllables -- i lose 100 pct of the bet i placed, no?
21:50	alexsanjose	ack
21:50	alexsanjose	but if i lose?
21:51	BingoBoingo	If you lose you lose. That part is simple. Winning is the complicated part.
21:52	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: I dunno if you parse python much, but the math for calculating winnings is all in here https://bitcointa.lk/threads/is-bitbet-us-buggy.86712/#post-1492473
21:52	mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre bounce artifexd mike_c and the rest of the supermath python gurus : maybe write a script that takes a bet and spits out the moving odds as the bets come in ?
21:52	BingoBoingo	If you don't parse it someone from it can for you.
21:52	alexsanjose	ok
21:52	alexsanjose	and what s the rake?
21:52	mircea_popescu	like an old bet i mean, with a lot of bets on it.
21:52	BingoBoingo	1%
21:52	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose 1% yeah
21:53	alexsanjose	and does that account for 100 pct of the profit?
21:53	artifexd	Is there a feed or would I have to continually poll?
21:53	mircea_popescu	artifexd no there's feeds.
21:53	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose bitbet also sells advertising
21:53	BingoBoingo	http://bitbet.us/bet/34/an-asic-unit-from-either-bfl-avalon-or/
21:53	ozbot	BitBet - An ASIC unit from either BFL, Avalon or BTCFPGA will ship before Feb 1st.
21:53	asciilifeform	i notice that the folks who are innocent of python et al can still work a spreadshit. somebody maybe post a spreadshit for them.
21:54	mircea_popescu	http://www.alexalper.com/resume/ << check it out, the luddite has a dedicated website.
21:54	ozbot	Alex Alper » Resume
21:54	mircea_popescu	how's capeverdian creole sound like ?
21:54	alexsanjose	haha
21:54	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: That bet I linked http://bitbet.us/bet/34/an-asic-unit-from-either-bfl-avalon-or/ gives a good dataset for understanding how successive bets affect bitbet winnings
21:55	alexsanjose	thanks
21:55	artifexd	Hey, look at that. There's even a twitter feed that I can pull from.
21:55	mircea_popescu	artifexd better pull from the feeds tho. kakobrekla what were the feeds again /
21:55	alexsanjose	so what is the breakdown on profit -- rake v advertising?
21:55	BingoBoingo	It varies month to month
21:55	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose you know it's in the reports, there's a special line for advertising
21:56	mircea_popescu	i think it's about 10% as a degree of magnitude
21:56	alexsanjose	cape verdean creole is like simplified portuguese - mo ki bu sta?
21:56	alexsanjose	ok
21:56	BingoBoingo	much of the profit comes from infrequent, but increasingly frequent massive bets
21:56	alexsanjose	i ll look for it later
21:56	mircea_popescu	interesting. an' Frenchand Malinke ?
21:56	alexsanjose	and where do the bets come from? is that something you guys come up w ?
21:56	alexsanjose	Malinke is awesome
21:56	kakobrekla	artifexd rss feeds are linked on right side, if that is what you need
21:56	mircea_popescu	what do you mean where they come from o.O
21:56	alexsanjose	its like an alternative view of reality
21:57	asciilifeform	alexsanjose: simplified portuguese << as in 'africaans' vs dutch ?
21:57	alexsanjose	but who s interviewing who :)
21:57	artifexd	I want something more push-y than pull-y
21:57	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose are you just in love with some native speaker ?
21:57	mircea_popescu	this is irc, we got time.
21:57	alexsanjose	haha
21:57	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: BBET statements http://trilema.com/category/sbbet/
21:58	alexsanjose	no its just interesting. for english speakers romance languages sorta open your world view when they teach u subjunctive and then the african languages is like a whol different kettle of fish
21:58	alexsanjose	but i digress
21:58	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you know it occurs to me it's probably like a particular cognitive skill, being able to follow irc convos. "disentagle a skein of thought" as the expression went.
21:58	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Sometimes they come up with bet, sometimes assholes like me write bets http://bitbet.us/bet/769/crimea-2-electric-boogaloo/
21:58	asciilifeform	today i lined up a bunch of inglischers and had them try reading Ro street signs, menus, etc. from photographs.
21:58	alexsanjose	for example there is a way to say "my" when u mean "myhusband" and a different "my" for "my bitcoin wallet" cuz humans matter more
21:59	alexsanjose	cool
21:59	kakobrekla	not more than bitcoin wallet
21:59	alexsanjose	haha! and do u deliberately try to space out the bets so a tricle of them are coming due every week month etc?
21:59	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Of course it is. And the best practice for this is plato when he is modeling a drunk crowd in the dialogues.
22:00	asciilifeform	mein Führer.
22:00	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: They really can't. Even mircea_popescu can't affect when the world series ends.
22:00	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo arguably.
22:00	alexsanjose	ok
22:00	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well not this decade.
22:00	mircea_popescu	end it all!!11
22:01	alexsanjose	BingoBoingo, do u mind if i ask u what your role is w bitbet since u re kindly asnwering a bunch of my qs?
22:01	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla your bitcoin wallet thanks you for your loyalty.
22:01	kakobrekla	i kno rite
22:01	mircea_popescu	he just likes talking to girls.
22:01	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: I bet there and I submit bets to there. More than half of my submitted bets have been rejected. I' a regualr in this channel though.
22:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39970 @ 0.00095715 = 38.2573 BTC [-] {2}
22:02	asciilifeform	alexsanjose: kakobrekla author of bitbet.
22:02	alexsanjose	why rejected?
22:02	BingoBoingo	Also, I'm kind drunk. Lemme quantify real quick.
22:02	alexsanjose	oh man
22:02	asciilifeform	wait gurls where
22:02	alexsanjose	this is the best interview ever :)
22:02	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose is that san jose as in san jose, cr ?
22:02	alexsanjose	was just there covering elections but back in mexico city
22:03	mircea_popescu	eres tica ?
22:03	alexsanjose	no
22:03	alexsanjose	pura vida
22:03	mircea_popescu	hehe aite.
22:03	BingoBoingo	Thanks to Overstock.com replacing Roger Ver as used electronics Bitcoin Jesus I am kinda confident I am BAC 0.257 drunk
22:03	alexsanjose	y tu?
22:03	alexsanjose	de donde sos
22:03	mircea_popescu	no yo soy rumeno.
22:03	BingoBoingo	Va a changarse
22:04	alexsanjose	:)
22:04	BingoBoingo	*chengarse
22:04	alexsanjose	so wait, why do bets get rejected?
22:04	alexsanjose	is there a min or max for the bets?
22:04	mircea_popescu	anyway, spent some time in san jose, originally landed there planing to stay a week, ended up staying like 3 years.
22:04	alexsanjose	oh really?
22:04	alexsanjose	u still there?
22:04	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Because MP, kakobrekla and MP's slavegirls don't think it is interesting is the big rejection reason
22:04	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose bets as in propositions get rejected, because not everything can be bet on. see the faq on bitbet, it details it.
22:04	alexsanjose	but wait it s not 4 am there
22:04	mircea_popescu	im in timisoara atm.
22:05	kakobrekla	BingoBoingo i dont partake in that ordeal
22:05	BingoBoingo	Ah, thx kakobrekla for clarifying
22:05	mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/propositions/ << you can see rejections here.
22:06	BingoBoingo	http://bitbet.us/bet/312/npda-college-debate-championship-2013-mckendree-college/
22:06	ozbot	BitBet - NPDA College Debate Championship 2013 - McKendree College to win
22:06	alexsanjose	ah rejected possible topics bets! i thot u meant that if someone wants to bet too little money their bet was rejected
22:06	mircea_popescu	there's no minimum
22:06	alexsanjose	and rake is charged immediately?
22:06	BingoBoingo	Even the pettiest shit is betable if you can guarentee a starting stake
22:06	mircea_popescu	because of bitcoin mining fees however, it's not really worth it to bet under 0.00005 or w/e
22:07	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose no, the rake is charged on resolution.
22:07	alexsanjose	ack
22:07	alexsanjose	is it possible for u to win and have no net gain? like so many humans take the same side as u and no one opposes and so u all just get back what u put in?
22:08	alexsanjose	minus 1 pct
22:08	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo btw, for your info it's chi not cha che etc
22:08	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose yes, it's possible. also discussed in the faq.
22:08	alexsanjose	tks
22:08	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well, somethings are hard to pick up from sound.
22:08	mircea_popescu	generally happens when people bet very late on a widely dominating side.
22:08	BingoBoingo	I could also swear I read che before
22:09	mircea_popescu	say a bet started today ending next month with a 10:1 spread, you bet in 3 weeks on the 10 side.
22:09	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Here's a writeup on some of the bigger bets in BitBet history for some perspective http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/16/interlude-the-big-bets/
22:10	alexsanjose	thank u guys
22:10	BingoBoingo	Eh, ReutersEmily seemed more inquisitive
22:11	kakobrekla	lol
22:11	BingoBoingo	The wired guy pretty much hid in PM's
22:11	alexsanjose	so -- apols if this is out there -- but i see monthly profits. DO u have annual for 2013?
22:11	BingoBoingo	Which was kinda suck
22:11	mircea_popescu	yeah, is reuters small enough by now you know emily flitter ?
22:11	alexsanjose	cuz u were operating a full year
22:12	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose never published annuals.
22:12	alexsanjose	i do
22:12	alexsanjose	do u have that info?
22:12	mircea_popescu	well you add up the 12 monthlies
22:12	alexsanjose	i guess i can do math
22:12	alexsanjose	ok
22:12	mircea_popescu	nobody much cares about years in btc.
22:12	alexsanjose	what about active users?
22:12	BingoBoingo	;;google site:bitcoin-assets.com ReutersEmily
22:12	gribble	home | log | bash | stats | wiki - bitcoin-assets: <http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?page=2&order=dateup>; 89 - bash - bitcoin-assets: <http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=89>; #bitcoin-assets stats: <http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/>
22:12	alexsanjose	is there a way to estimate that if folks dont have their own accounts?
22:13	BingoBoingo	What do you mean not have their own accounts?
22:13	kakobrekla	i want to spoonfeed too, alexsanjose , http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/results-of-first-bitbet-audit-april-7-2014/
22:13	BingoBoingo	There are a lot of ways this assumption could fork
22:13	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#571588
22:13	BingoBoingo	!up alexsanjose
22:13	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
22:13	kakobrekla	incidentally i already linked her that.
22:13	*	BingoBoingo teases benkay with brisket
22:13	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla yours wasn't as good tho.
22:14	kakobrekla	...
22:14	BingoBoingo	!up benkay
22:14	assbot	Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
22:14	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla because you see it's a different my when you talk about bitcoin wallets than persons.
22:14	alexsanjose	thank u
22:14	benkay	hey
22:14	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose seriously, someone over at reuters has to eventually figure out how to create a gpg key, reg it with gribble, get in the wot.
22:15	BingoBoingo	benkay: All of your thoughts on BitBet on demanded nao!
22:15	mircea_popescu	benkay can't up nao ?
22:15	alexsanjose	that person will sadly not be alexsanjose
22:15	benkay	jesus
22:15	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: THe alternative is we switch allegiances to AP
22:15	benkay	i'm writing an email, assholes
22:16	alexsanjose	hahaha
22:16	mircea_popescu	i can't recall who the ap guy was here.
22:16	alexsanjose	well i ll miss the spoon feeding
22:16	mircea_popescu	benkay want a postmark ?
22:16	BingoBoingo	Well benkay Maybe you ought to take your tongue out of fluffypony's wife's asshole
22:16	mircea_popescu	wait what ?!
22:16	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Honesly I dun remember an AP guy
22:17	alexsanjose	but here s my question -- so if i can go on, without registering, logging into an account --
22:17	alexsanjose	and i made say three bets
22:17	*	mircea_popescu consults his wall markings. two wired, one forbes one bi, one ap etc
22:17	alexsanjose	in 2 months
22:17	alexsanjose	can u track all those bets to the same user
22:17	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Maybe they can
22:17	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose depends whether you want us to.
22:17	alexsanjose	ie do u have accurate figures on how many active users u have
22:17	alexsanjose	:)
22:18	mircea_popescu	not really. we don't even bother keeping analytics, so.
22:18	mircea_popescu	who cares.
22:18	kakobrekla	its more than 2.
22:18	alexsanjose	alexsanjose does
22:18	alexsanjose	but that s cool
22:18	mircea_popescu	it's certainly more than a dozen cause at least a dozen diff people here bugged me abouyt it
22:18	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: If they go off of addresses alone I am 20 some users. If they narrow things down based on shit talking I am 2-3 users
22:18	kakobrekla	alexsanjose the things we can measure, we measure and publish, see numbers in the footer on bitbet
22:18	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose bitcoin is fungible. bitbet did 15k btc in total bets or so
22:19	mircea_popescu	whether this is 15k people or 3 is immaterial.
22:19	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: his wall markings. two wired, one forbes... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yBIeh7Wug54/UChVTKXKxaI/AAAAAAAAEP4/4or9ZxvENlI/s1600/vargas6.jpg
22:19	alexsanjose	ok that was my next question
22:19	alexsanjose	bet volume
22:19	alexsanjose	15k btc in total bets -- from jan 2013 to march 2014?
22:20	kakobrekla	almost april
22:20	mircea_popescu	yes.
22:20	alexsanjose	so i can use the above phrasing?
22:20	alexsanjose	merci
22:20	mircea_popescu	incidentallyt, there've been a total of about 10k bets, so that's an upper bound
22:20	mircea_popescu	we couldn't possibly have more than 10k diofferent users.
22:20	mircea_popescu	meanwhile, that means that the AVERAGE bet is like 1.5 btc,
22:20	mircea_popescu	which afaik is unheard of.
22:21	alexsanjose	so 10,000 bets, of 15,000 btc in a little over a year
22:21	alexsanjose	yes math
22:21	mircea_popescu	bitbet beats the sands, you read it here first.
22:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22131 @ 0.00095513 = 21.138 BTC [-] {2}
22:21	alexsanjose	one becomes a journalist bc one is bad at it
22:21	alexsanjose	hahaha
22:21	alexsanjose	ok
22:21	mircea_popescu	i was serious.
22:21	moiety	benkay: i hope it's a gpg email
22:22	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: If your are a shitty journalist it isn't because journalists are shit. It is because you chose Columbia over Mizzou.
22:22	alexsanjose	beats the sands for higher average bet u mean
22:22	alexsanjose	dude
22:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12267 @ 0.00095186 = 11.6765 BTC [-]
22:23	alexsanjose	and how many employees do u have on just the bitbet end?
22:23	mircea_popescu	that wasn't ever disclosed
22:23	mircea_popescu	but definitely fewer than the sands.
22:23	alexsanjose	:)
22:24	alexsanjose	and it wont be disclosed i take it
22:24	mircea_popescu	bitcoin betting. it really is killing the margins for irl betting.
22:24	mircea_popescu	well, if it ever is disclosed, you'll be the first to know.
22:24	mircea_popescu	especially if you idle in here.
22:24	alexsanjose	take that, AP
22:24	alexsanjose	:)
22:24	TestingUnoDosTre	do you have an rss feed of total bets
22:24	benkay	ho a leak promise from mp
22:24	TestingUnoDosTre	would be fun to bet on how many btc will be bet on bitbet
22:24	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: I dun have an official account, but at least 3. mircea_popescu kakobrekla and the secret mod or mods
22:24	mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre don't you start too
22:25	ThickAsThieves	boo!
22:25	alexsanjose	and what about location?
22:25	ThickAsThieves	i cant pass up an opportunity to push Schrodinger's BitBet, thx testing124
22:25	TestingUnoDosTre	how many bets does a bitbet bet if a bit bet could bet good?
22:25	ThickAsThieves	123*
22:25	mircea_popescu	still waiting for locations to submit their offers.
22:26	alexsanjose	?
22:26	TestingUnoDosTre	im gonna be the bookie, owning up the bitbet bitbet
22:26	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 2 @ 0.14 = 0.28 BTC
22:26	mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre wouldja consider getting a better nick ?
22:26	TestingUnoDosTre	it makes me sound spanish
22:26	TestingUnoDosTre	ill think of one over the next couple few weeks
22:26	mircea_popescu	well... panish, at any rate.
22:27	alexsanjose	like the undisclosed number of humans that work for bitbet and the servers
22:27	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: What beat do you usually cover?
22:28	asciilifeform	why do people always ask 'how many warm bodies' ??
22:28	alexsanjose	i cover economics and markets if i cant help it in mexico
22:28	asciilifeform	to whom does this matter.
22:28	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: I severely doubt a count of server personel will happen. Hasn't happened for MPEx. Hasn't happened for S.NSA
22:28	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose it's like this. the way locations normally works is that it doesn't need people, but people need it. and so people make offers to location.
22:28	mircea_popescu	bitbet however needs a location like i need a pair of horns. location however does need bitbet, and business generally.
22:29	mircea_popescu	so... waiting for location to get its head out of its ass, realise that the tables have turned and start making offers.
22:29	alexsanjose	i get that cyber shizel makes some of these considerations less relevant
22:29	*	BingoBoingo has a personal point of shame
22:29	alexsanjose	however
22:29	*	BingoBoingo is too new to knwo evoorhes IRC nick
22:29	alexsanjose	we reporters, we like locations
22:30	mircea_popescu	tough.
22:30	alexsanjose	:)
22:30	mircea_popescu	;;seen evoorhees
22:30	gribble	evoorhees was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 39 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <evoorhees> I need to go for now, on later
22:30	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: And that is how I scooped the whole press on the OpenBSD story
22:30	alexsanjose	u should come over to the dark side BingoBoingo
22:31	alexsanjose	Boingo is a decent juice maker down here incidentally
22:31	alexsanjose	i recommend the guayaba
22:31	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Have you read my blog yet?
22:31	mircea_popescu	the lyf and times of the luddite journalist. 1. find webchat. 2. 500 pages of 500 words each avalanche. 3. profit ? 4. burial.
22:31	mircea_popescu	!up Neil
22:31	assbot	Voicing Neil for 30 minutes.
22:31	BingoBoingo	I might happily have an opinon column for the right price, if you buy out my mystery sponsor's share
22:32	*	BingoBoingo offers a hit, it isn;t mircea_popescu
22:32	BingoBoingo	that was butchered...
22:32	TestingUnoDosTre	offers a hit? what drug
22:32	mircea_popescu	dude did he just threaten to off me ?
22:32	alexsanjose	<+mircea_popescu> can u at least confirm u re licensed in CR?
22:32	BingoBoingo	I'll have to do the BAC after this cigarette again
22:32	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose im sorry, licensed to what ?
22:32	alexsanjose	to ill
22:32	alexsanjose	i mean to operate
22:33	mircea_popescu	to operate what ?!
22:33	TestingUnoDosTre	oooh BingoBoingo, whats your high score?
22:33	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I meant hint... Fuck...
22:33	ThickAsThieves	on teeth
22:33	alexsanjose	an online gambling site
22:33	mircea_popescu	how is this relevant ?
22:33	mircea_popescu	are you licensed to operate an online nuclear powerplant ?
22:33	alexsanjose	because i can t really write the story unless i can tie it somehow to the region i cover
22:33	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: Hisghest BAC I've hit on the overstock.com breathalizer is 0.67 while lucid
22:34	TestingUnoDosTre	whaaaaaat
22:34	alexsanjose	its somewhat silly
22:34	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Isn't world news a thing?
22:34	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo apparently not for reuters.
22:34	alexsanjose	:)
22:34	alexsanjose	i tried to pitch it as a world news thing
22:34	BingoBoingo	Fucking Columbia grads
22:34	alexsanjose	dude
22:34	alexsanjose	:)
22:34	BingoBoingo	Srs should have gone to MIZ ZOU
22:35	BingoBoingo	Not only better school, better college town
22:35	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose you can tell your editor i said he's doing himself way more favours running stories about me than the reverse.
22:35	BingoBoingo	Only had a gun pointed at me twice there
22:36	alexsanjose	look, u have important privacy concerns which i can only begin to imagine.
22:36	TestingUnoDosTre	now what was this talk about writing a program that can parse through bets?
22:36	asciilifeform	where is MIZ ZOU? bagdad? kandahar?
22:36	TestingUnoDosTre	missouri state
22:36	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Columbia Missouri
22:36	mircea_popescu	on the grounds that while i matter, reuters does not.
22:36	mircea_popescu	scaling issues.
22:36	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: Not Missouri state
22:36	alexsanjose	but i also have to talk to a company that has something there -- a call center, a server, a license
22:36	TestingUnoDosTre	the state of missouri
22:36	alexsanjose	ergo i ask if u are said comapny
22:36	TestingUnoDosTre	:D
22:36	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: That isn't how university names work
22:37	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose it might have escaped your notice, but bitbet is not a company, it's a mpex corporation.
22:37	alexsanjose	i agree w u
22:37	alexsanjose	it s global story
22:37	TestingUnoDosTre	I know, was just trying to backtrack on my earlier fuckup
22:37	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5217657 BTC [-]
22:37	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Class it as a UK story. They operate in the UTC +-0 time zone
22:38	mircea_popescu	i thought she was in mexico.
22:38	alexsanjose	i am
22:38	BingoBoingo	Eh,
22:38	BingoBoingo	details
22:38	alexsanjose	:)
22:38	alexsanjose	if only i could write "dateline cyberspace"
22:38	alexsanjose	or "dateline the world"
22:38	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00481852 = 0.5059 BTC [+] {3}
22:38	mircea_popescu	what's to keep you ?
22:38	BingoBoingo	I thought dateline was a disney thing.
22:38	ThickAsThieves	bitbet has no more relevance to Mexico than any other country
22:39	alexsanjose	but are u based in the UK then?
22:39	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves i dare not think they perhaps haven't reported on heartbleed yet, because well...
22:39	ThickAsThieves	hehe
22:39	mircea_popescu	we forgot to register a mexico domain for it.
22:39	alexsanjose	:)
22:39	ThickAsThieves	maybe the relevance is competition to mexican casinos or something
22:39	mircea_popescu	either forgot or didn't care.
22:39	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose yeah, let's see here.
22:40	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: They resolve bets on Greenwich time
22:40	alexsanjose	ergo
22:40	mircea_popescu	tell Gordon Burr i said he's a poopyhead.
22:40	TestingUnoDosTre	speaking of which, can we get a clock on the website?
22:40	asciilifeform	heatbleed - not diffused, has a loving motherland, 26km from where i sit.
22:40	mircea_popescu	then he'll get pissed off, and you've got your story.
22:40	TestingUnoDosTre	i might even chip in for that
22:40	mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre on which website ?!
22:41	TestingUnoDosTre	bitbet
22:41	TestingUnoDosTre	gmt
22:41	TestingUnoDosTre	or GWT
22:41	mircea_popescu	dude srsly.
22:41	ThickAsThieves	Gordo Burro
22:41	TestingUnoDosTre	making me open up another whole tab
22:41	mircea_popescu	you got no wrists ?
22:41	mircea_popescu	cut them off ?
22:41	TestingUnoDosTre	what do you mean
22:41	TestingUnoDosTre	I have plent of wrists
22:42	mircea_popescu	so open a clock tab on your wrist!
22:42	*	BingoBoingo blows
22:42	TestingUnoDosTre	gotta get a watch
22:42	BingoBoingo	BAC 3.12
22:42	ThickAsThieves	dafuck
22:42	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo are you like trying to become tucker max or something ?
22:42	mod6	haha, im gonna set my watch to 0 GMT
22:42	moiety	GWT?!
22:43	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Not at all.
22:43	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: This isn't even near the usual buzz I have here
22:43	alexsanjose	so zero ties to CR
22:43	mircea_popescu	btw, if anyone knows of that schmuck since his days of derping about being amusing,
22:43	mircea_popescu	you'll never guess what he's doing these days.
22:43	moiety	i have a browser bar addon with all my clocks running along it
22:43	ThickAsThieves	!up alexsanjose
22:43	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
22:44	alexsanjose	but what did u do there for 3 years?
22:44	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Didn't he pay the Kentucky Basketball coach to be his bitch for lunch and a game?
22:44	ThickAsThieves	enjoy the local flora is my guess
22:44	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose this was a while back, i was still retired back then. mostly i did girls
22:44	ThickAsThieves	i win
22:45	BingoBoingo	!up benkay
22:45	assbot	Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
22:45	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i musta missed that.
22:45	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves you know, fauna is not flora.
22:45	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: It was last week's story. No OpenBSD guns of liberty or anything like that.
22:45	ThickAsThieves	tell that to Georgia O'Keeffe
22:45	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo anyway, dude's now.... an investment adviser.
22:46	BingoBoingo	O'Really? I thought he was a Lohan.
22:46	moiety	TestingUnoDosTre: https://foxclocks.org/ you can totally customise them however you like
22:46	mircea_popescu	he has like... opinions and shit. about like, laws. and is excited. about like... companies. well, "companies".
22:46	mircea_popescu	tucker fucking max.
22:46	BingoBoingo	It is all nothing compared to my running the largest Altcoin denominated trading fund.
22:47	kakobrekla	also the first and best
22:47	alexsanjose	ok
22:47	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.032 = 0.128 BTC [+]
22:48	BingoBoingo	Eh, it would totally die if someone used 20 BTC to set a new baseline for ATC at 300 satoshis per
22:48	asciilifeform	you can always tell who can't do arithmetic by where walls of ornate clocks with ~3 zones hang. e.g. u.s. army briefing rooms.
22:48	alexsanjose	so some industry stat questions -- a lotta stories say half of bitcoin transactions are online gambling related --
22:48	alexsanjose	u have a source on that?
22:48	alexsanjose	i get that the ledger is countable
22:48	alexsanjose	but who counted it
22:48	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose prolly satoshidice, a mpex corp, meanwhile retired.
22:48	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Most of that data is last year's when SatoshiDice was a thing
22:48	mircea_popescu	or if not,
22:49	mircea_popescu	!jd
22:49	assbot	Just-Dice stat: 16289 BTC profit, 35.4k BTC invested, 1083.43 mio bets, 5.19 mio BTC wagered
22:49	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: That number hasn't been reliable since about July
22:49	alexsanjose	ugh. any thots on getting an updated figure?
22:50	BingoBoingo	Not really, not without a soldering iron and patience
22:50	alexsanjose	if only i d gone to Mizzou
22:50	alexsanjose	another one -- what about an estimate on the number of online gambling operations in bitcoin
22:50	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose an updaed figure of what ?
22:51	alexsanjose	of the percent of bitcoin transactions that are for gambling
22:51	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Best part of Mizzou. I had a grad assistanship with the Pharmacy School through UMKC.
22:51	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose other than jd and bitbet there's not that many worth the mention.
22:51	alexsanjose	jd
22:51	alexsanjose	?
22:51	ThickAsThieves	i imagince sdice still gets some volume, no?
22:51	BingoBoingo	!jd
22:51	assbot	Just-Dice stat: 16289 BTC profit, 35.4k BTC invested, 1083.44 mio bets, 5.19 mio BTC wagered
22:51	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: Not so much anymore
22:51	ThickAsThieves	www.just-dice.com
22:51	alexsanjose	ok
22:51	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: JD pretty much killed SD
22:52	ThickAsThieves	it's ok to speak normals to the lady guys, geez
22:52	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: There are a number of questionable line betting operations.
22:52	alexsanjose	coinbet? cloudbet strkesapphire seals w clubs
22:52	alexsanjose	seems like there are tons
22:52	ThickAsThieves	coinroll.it
22:52	ThickAsThieves	there are a fair quantity of sites, but probly not much volume
22:52	mircea_popescu	didn't seals die an ignoble death after it lost its db or something ?
22:53	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: I play with cloudbet. I fear it might face the same bet as its line betting predecessors in the space.
22:53	ThickAsThieves	seals seems like something thatll never die
22:53	asciilifeform	seals - clubbed.
22:53	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Sealswith Clubs used to rock, then they got hacked and everyone fled
22:53	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose you're roughly in the position of someone asking how many websites there are on the internet. it's by and large a meaningless measure of nothing in particular.
22:53	ThickAsThieves	it's where nerds that are too nerdy for the smart nerds play
22:53	alexsanjose	i understand but these are the things editors yearn for
22:53	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: You been to seals recently, it is just bots and sad
22:54	ThickAsThieves	i never tried it
22:54	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose alright, there's 128 btc gambling websites.
22:54	alexsanjose	which brings me to my next unknowable question -- the value of the industry
22:54	ThickAsThieves	i have bias against their css
22:54	BingoBoingo	ThickAsThieves: It was pretty awesome this time last year.
22:54	alexsanjose	who 128?
22:54	ThickAsThieves	what can i say...
22:54	alexsanjose	why 128?
22:54	mircea_popescu	cause i say so.
22:54	benkay	moiety: simply telling someone's boss that i was going to reject the man's code and would the following advice be welcome?
22:54	alexsanjose	ha
22:54	benkay	(ask a stupid question, alexsanjose, get a stupid answer)
22:54	mircea_popescu	it;'s not that stupid even.
22:55	alexsanjose	what happened to the spoon feeding :)
22:55	mircea_popescu	128.
22:55	alexsanjose	it s beautiful and round
22:55	*	mircea_popescu looks under assbot's skirts.
22:55	mircea_popescu	where the hell does it store all the voice.
22:55	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: If you want to know what sealswithclubspoker was like over the last year I have a GPG key with email address on my blog.
22:55	alexsanjose	haha
22:55	alexsanjose	thank u
22:56	ThickAsThieves	assbot is all ass, no skirt
22:56	mircea_popescu	http://sirf-online.org/2014/04/17/mdbx-follow-up/ << whas this in here ? it's pretty fucking... bitcoinesque.
22:56	BingoBoingo	Also if you want to know about traditional sports betting books in BTC I have lots of details on that
22:56	alexsanjose	i need some in Costa RIca to talk to me
22:56	alexsanjose	in order to justify doing this story
22:56	alexsanjose	i know it s silly
22:56	alexsanjose	anyway
22:57	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Fine, I'm in southern Illinois, close enough?
22:57	alexsanjose	a question i forgot from earlier that i think i know the answer to -- mp -- u have no way of tracking where your customers are or who they are
22:57	alexsanjose	nest pas?
22:57	moiety	benkay, please tell me what response you get?
22:57	ThickAsThieves	i think whats his name is in costa rica
22:57	alexsanjose	haha
22:57	ThickAsThieves	the sharepoint guy
22:57	benkay	another good question would be "which are the important ones and why do they matter?"
22:57	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose not more than you do at any rate.
22:57	alexsanjose	do you have a sense of where many are set up
22:58	BingoBoingo	Crimea
22:58	benkay	moiety: "I don’t think you could make the suggestions friendly enough not to make it seem like a big middle finger.:
22:58	alexsanjose	(i get your prior point abt locations being interchangeable)
22:58	benkay	"
22:58	kakobrekla	most of them come from the internets
22:58	benkay	this for the record is why american management sucks.
22:58	BingoBoingo	India
22:58	benkay	no stones to tell people to redo their work
22:58	mircea_popescu	<kakobrekla> most of them come from the internets <<
22:58	alexsanjose	but i m wondering if the bitcoin gambling sites flock to the same plays where vanilla online gambling was big
22:58	assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1792229/plain/)
22:58	mircea_popescu	!b 1
22:58	mircea_popescu	shit.
22:58	benkay	no expectation that people can take criticism
22:58	alexsanjose	i ve heard of the internets. i think al gore made them
22:59	alexsanjose	after 2009
22:59	BingoBoingo	The thing is this year this is an English language story. In five years this will eaither be a Spanish or Chinese language story.
22:59	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose i doubt anything useful can be said on the topic of whether bitcoin gambling geographically concentrates like casino gambling.
22:59	ThickAsThieves	furuknap, i think he's in CR
23:00	alexsanjose	u familiar with UIGEA etc?
23:00	TestingUnoDosTre	i've got a question
23:00	ThickAsThieves	here's is blog if you wanna try to reach him http://cryptocoinblog.com/about/
23:00	alexsanjose	who s furuknap
23:00	TestingUnoDosTre	superbowl coinflip - wtf happene there?
23:00	ThickAsThieves	a nobody really
23:00	mircea_popescu	Nov 29 04:07:23 <firstblockchain>Trying to find people with rentable / purchasable land in Costa Rica who are bitcoin friendly. Want to set up a few solar powered yurts, wire up with some good internet, plant some tubers and coffee and operate from there. Going to be a pain to ship my roaster there from indonesia though... <<< this guy too.
23:00	ThickAsThieves	but he's into bitcoin, in CR
23:00	moiety	benkay: why does he need friendly if he wants his business to work?
23:00	ThickAsThieves	just in case you REALLY need a connection
23:01	ThickAsThieves	assuming he's still in CR...
23:01	*	moiety is far too nosy benkay sorry
23:02	TestingUnoDosTre	!up Neil
23:02	assbot	Voicing Neil for 30 minutes.
23:02	alexsanjose	thanks
23:03	alexsanjose	so UIGEA
23:03	alexsanjose	the 2006 us gambling law -- u familiar?
23:03	mircea_popescu	what about it ?
23:03	alexsanjose	do you bitcoin gamlbing will be found by courts to run afoul of it?
23:03	TestingUnoDosTre	the us anti gambling law *
23:04	BingoBoingo	Does the law touch consumers?
23:04	alexsanjose	no
23:04	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose the us is welcome to try.
23:04	alexsanjose	ooh
23:04	alexsanjose	nice
23:04	mircea_popescu	you familiar with the sec's attempt ?
23:04	alexsanjose	which bit
23:04	BingoBoingo	;;google site:trilema.com sec
23:04	gribble	SEC Complaint - Securities and Exchange Commission: <http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/comp-pr2013-132.pdf>; Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/>; The reasons why Bitcoin securities can't be regulated by the SEC pe ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-reasons-why- (1 more message)
23:04	BingoBoingo	Second link
23:05	alexsanjose	oh the mpex - satoshi thing
23:05	BingoBoingo	Yeah, more an evoorhes thing apparently is the cover
23:06	BingoBoingo	Still, there are Marines in Costana
23:06	mircea_popescu	the point being, everyone's welcome to imagine they matter.
23:07	BingoBoingo	Everyone is equally welcome to give a cock a taste provided a lack of mouth sores
23:07	alexsanjose	well if u could win on this argument -- It is our considered opinion that Bitcoin does not constitute either “Money” as discussed in the second reference nor does a purchase of a Bitcoin denominated virtual security such as offered on MPEx constitute “the placing of capital or laying out of money” as discussed in the first reference.
23:07	alexsanjose	then u d be ok prolly on UIGEA
23:07	alexsanjose	which penalizes a funds transfer, etc
23:07	mircea_popescu	you're not in any sense qualified to discuss matters of law, are you ?
23:07	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Already a BitBet http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/
23:08	mircea_popescu	!up Lee-
23:08	assbot	Voicing Lee- for 30 minutes.
23:08	alexsanjose	i dont have a law degree. i did cover the CFTC for a while
23:09	mircea_popescu	so then that'd be it for this line.
23:10	alexsanjose	do u see bitcoin gambling spreading? despite the regulatory push in the US and people s fears about volatility etc?
23:10	TestingUnoDosTre	speaking of which, that oil futures bet is really delicious looking. too pansy to bet on a side though :(
23:11	alexsanjose	i m almost done, apols for having taken up so much of your time
23:11	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: Grow some balls?
23:11	TestingUnoDosTre	much more comfortable betting on diff
23:11	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose i don't imagine the usg is any sort of actor in this discussion.
23:11	mircea_popescu	other than that, quite impossible to call trends. maybe it's growing.
23:11	mircea_popescu	maybe it's shrinking.
23:12	alexsanjose	ok
23:12	mircea_popescu	volatility seems neutral.
23:12	BingoBoingo	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vyj1C8ogtE
23:12	ozbot	Scotty Doesn't Know - YouTube
23:12	ThickAsThieves	itd probably grow in some proportion to bitcoin's growth
23:12	mircea_popescu	people who gamble wouldn't conceivably be much deterredf by the risk that their payoff is multiplied or divided randomly.
23:13	mircea_popescu	but this is all speculation, and not too well grounded.
23:13	TestingUnoDosTre	randomly?
23:13	ThickAsThieves	i agree though ive seen recent articles disagreeing with that mp
23:13	ThickAsThieves	like bitcoin gambling is somehow doomed due to its volatility
23:13	BingoBoingo	This is exactly the difference between NeoBBQ and actual returns
23:14	BingoBoingo	!up alexsanjose
23:14	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
23:14	mircea_popescu	one question lingers. did you lie earlier when you claimed you can't do the article unless it's somehow related to... costa rica (?!) ? one'd have expected your interest to die there, were that factual.
23:14	alexsanjose	i didnt lie
23:15	BingoBoingo	!up Luke-Jr
23:15	assbot	Voicing Luke-Jr for 30 minutes.
23:15	mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves i dunno what sense that makes. so you play blackjack in tokens, and they have a random value each day. this deters you from playing blackjack ?
23:15	ThickAsThieves	she's a journalist, she's good at making shit up by now
23:15	BingoBoingo	Luke-Jr: So bets of bitco.in
23:15	BingoBoingo	!up benkay
23:15	assbot	Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
23:15	alexsanjose	if it s happening there, i need to bring in that element
23:15	alexsanjose	but as u note its a global phenomenon
23:15	alexsanjose	which makes all this super relevant
23:16	mircea_popescu	ic.
23:16	alexsanjose	do u think that online bitcoin gambling has benefitted from the troubles regular online gambling outfits have faced -with paymnet systems since UIGEA?
23:16	mircea_popescu	wasnt that a law in 2006 ?
23:16	BingoBoingo	alexsanjose: Whatever local paper it is quarentined to will piss off the 95% of bettors not there
23:16	alexsanjose	yes
23:16	mircea_popescu	well... bitcoin didn't exist in 2006. bitcoin gambling even less.
23:16	mircea_popescu	so how'd it benefit
23:17	alexsanjose	because after 2006, and especially ater 2011 when the doj shut down the three major online poker establishments that us plays could illegally access
23:17	alexsanjose	some of outfits continued to operate
23:17	BingoBoingo	poker sucks
23:17	alexsanjose	but it became increaseingly harder to process payments
23:17	TestingUnoDosTre	poker is great
23:17	BingoBoingo	Poker is a lowest common denominator of gambling
23:17	alexsanjose	because the 2006 law makes it illegal to accept payments associated iwth "unlawful: online gambling
23:18	mircea_popescu	but bitbet is not doing poker.
23:18	alexsanjose	but it s not just poker
23:18	mircea_popescu	and the one poker site which was doing great in 2011 and 2012 meanwhile died.
23:18	alexsanjose	so by penalizing the payment process, they brought banks into it
23:18	TestingUnoDosTre	i think theres still one ... bodog?
23:18	TestingUnoDosTre	just heard of a friend in the us depositing the other day
23:18	alexsanjose	there are plenty
23:18	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: WTF is Bodog
23:18	TestingUnoDosTre	;;ud bodog
23:18	gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bodog | Damn, I put a grand on the Lakers last night at BoDog, & the pistons smoked em! by Maddog June 26, 2004. 45 23. Mugs & shirts Buy “Bodog” mugs & shirts ...
23:18	ozbot	Urban Dictionary: Bodog
23:18	mircea_popescu	it may not be "just poker", but the case of poker seems to go exactly against the theory it benefited.
23:18	alexsanjose	but they had to resort to really sketchy stuff to get money fto and from clients
23:19	TestingUnoDosTre	bodog is a poker website
23:19	alexsanjose	how so
23:19	BingoBoingo	What is "Really sketchy"
23:19	mircea_popescu	because the bitcoin poker site was doing great in 2011, and is dead now.
23:19	benkay	got robbed, right?
23:19	alexsanjose	banks would have to misclassifry transactions
23:19	mircea_popescu	this is not an opposite trend of the fiat poker sites
23:19	alexsanjose	saying that it was to buy golf balls
23:19	benkay	trust is important when bitcoins are involved.
23:19	alexsanjose	and not to bet
23:20	alexsanjose	or a runner ould show up at your house for the cash
23:20	BingoBoingo	The cashier had to put my vodka in a paper bag. Was that sketcy because it was concealed?
23:20	mircea_popescu	since when do banks classify transactions saying it;'s to x or to y ?
23:20	alexsanjose	these are anecdotes from people in the industry anyway
23:20	BingoBoingo	!down alexsanjose
23:20	mircea_popescu	wtf weird country is that. the merchant/customer specify wtf the transaction is
23:20	BingoBoingo	!up alexsanjose
23:20	assbot	Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
23:20	alexsanjose	but as soon as the bank does that, they can go after you for fraud, money laundering,e tc in addition to violating UIGEA]
23:21	*	mircea_popescu shrugs
23:21	TestingUnoDosTre	maybe if you won lke $100k
23:21	alexsanjose	so the question is whether bitcoin -- which is outside of traditionally banking -- allows bettors and sites to sidestep all the regulatory hassle (in addition to lowering costs, etc_)
23:21	BingoBoingo	Indeterminate
23:22	mircea_popescu	alexsanjose it would seem there's no particular relation.
23:22	TestingUnoDosTre	but if you tried to make a connection, if you REALLY stretched
23:22	mircea_popescu	or in the words of bogart, the fixations of some people in the us don't amount to a hill of beans in this large btc world.
23:22	BingoBoingo	Even in the US I have yet to se a bank car with lites, sirens, and surly black cops played by Sam Jackson
23:23	alexsanjose	so u really see it as a separate phenomenon
23:24	alexsanjose	independent of this whole us gambling regulatory backstory
23:24	BingoBoingo	Yes
23:24	BingoBoingo	Per FINRA, the Federal Reserve, and Reality.
23:24	mircea_popescu	i don't imagine that a)the us legislative process has much impact on us reality ; b) us reality has much impact on online reality ; c) btc has much to do with online gambling
23:24	mircea_popescu	so there's layers.
23:25	alexsanjose	ok
23:25	alexsanjose	that was very clear
23:25	alexsanjose	thank u
23:25	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: On point B the us has an impact in that it makes tor suck
23:25	mircea_popescu	so tor is integral to gambling ?
23:25	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: No more than Bitcoin
23:25	BingoBoingo	Or Freenode
23:25	mircea_popescu	anyway, imo it was teh yurpeans that made tor suck
23:26	mircea_popescu	i mean look at the shills/devs/etc
23:26	TestingUnoDosTre	whats so bad about it?
23:26	alexsanjose	well thank u guys
23:26	alexsanjose	illuminating
23:26	alexsanjose	enchanting even
23:27	TestingUnoDosTre	the bitcoin illuminati!
23:27	mircea_popescu	lol
23:27	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27581 @ 0.00095632 = 26.3763 BTC [+]
23:27	TestingUnoDosTre	strikes again
23:27	BingoBoingo	Well, tor always sucked, there was actually a not horrible Cracked article on the subject
23:27	BingoBoingo	BAC update: .354
23:28	TestingUnoDosTre	before you said 3.23
23:28	TestingUnoDosTre	was really scared
23:28	alexsanjose	if you come across in humans in Central America who have bitcoin gambling operations and they want to talk to a reporter, tell them i dont bite alexandra.alper@thomsonreuters.com
23:28	mike_c	BingoBoingo: breathalyzer while drinking is cheating. you need blood samples!
23:29	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: Must have been confusion of units
23:29	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0315 = 0.126 BTC [-]
23:29	BingoBoingo	mike_c: Yeah, but are YOU really going to jump me with a needle right now?
23:29	TestingUnoDosTre	i thought it underestimates while drinkiing
23:29	mircea_popescu	it does.
23:29	BingoBoingo	Sometimes approximation is a necessary tool
23:30	BingoBoingo	Also this is Overstock.com, they barely replaced Roger Ver
23:30	TestingUnoDosTre	if you're going for your all time high score, doesn't seem like cheating to me
23:30	BingoBoingo	Nah, this isn't a high score night. This is just cultivating a good hangover to think through tomorrow.
23:31	TestingUnoDosTre	can you estimate how much youve had to get to .3++?\
23:32	TestingUnoDosTre	I've always been worried about the .08 rule in america
23:32	BingoBoingo	!up Neil
23:32	assbot	Voicing Neil for 30 minutes.
23:32	mike_c	mircea_popescu: hah, sorry my departure caused a commotion. great weekend though! i had a blast.
23:33	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: I can look at the bottle or bottles.
23:33	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: The .08 rule is why I keep a tremendous distance between driving and drinking.
23:33	TestingUnoDosTre	I just fill the distance with smoke
23:34	mircea_popescu	mike_c tbh i half figured you moved for a day of hooker privacy.
23:35	BingoBoingo	Well, I smoke menthol cigarettes like a nigger so maybe that is another false positive that might aggrevate this piece of shit.
23:35	joecool	my coworker switched to ecig, smokes thug juice
23:35	joecool	s/smokes/vapes/
23:35	mircea_popescu	and with that... nighty all!
23:35	TestingUnoDosTre	by the way, I'm really disappointed how bitbet posts latest bets to the front page. I sniped this coinlab bet from a few months , and someone just followed me
23:36	joecool	BingoBoingo: prob better for you
23:36	BingoBoingo	joecool: For some definitions of better.
23:36	joecool	cheaper + less cancer + smells better
23:37	TestingUnoDosTre	just go over to cannabis, you will smoke like one every ten
23:37	BingoBoingo	joecool: Menthols cost just as much as regular cigs
23:37	joecool	sure, i was talking about vaping though
23:38	TestingUnoDosTre	even newports?
23:38	TestingUnoDosTre	i stricly smoke spliffs
23:38	TestingUnoDosTre	this is my profession
23:38	joecool	i don't smoke
23:39	TestingUnoDosTre	vaporise?
23:39	BingoBoingo	Eh, I dun want some damn weed ruining my nice ETOH buzz
23:39	TestingUnoDosTre	ruining? they pair like a wine to a cheese
23:40	joecool	me? i tried ecig vaping shortly, never got huge into it, but gave my kit to coworker to quit cigarette smoking and he switched to that
23:40	joecool	loves it now, got the really fancy units
23:40	artifexd	ThickAsThieves: Mailpile is an opensource web mail app that does makes pgp encryption easier. To be really useful though, it should be run on your own server.
23:40	TestingUnoDosTre	the first thing I truly toked was vaporised cannabis
23:41	TestingUnoDosTre	then i slowly drifted over to the cigarretes, as I began to mix the two
23:41	joecool	i've had cannabis a few times, i can't really have it though, drops my blood pressure and i either faint or sleep for over 12 hours
23:41	joecool	just not for me
23:41	BingoBoingo	TestingUnoDosTre: Extremes of ETOH and marijuana intoxication can be great, but apart, never together at the extremes
23:42	TestingUnoDosTre	intuiging
23:42	TestingUnoDosTre	I never said extremes
23:42	joecool	someone had me try vaping it once and i slept for almost 18 hours
23:42	joecool	nobody could wake me up
23:43	TestingUnoDosTre	wow
23:43	joecool	not my idea of fun, at best a sleep aid
23:43	TestingUnoDosTre	have you ever been prescribed pain medications?
23:43	joecool	i had a kidney stone in high school
23:43	joecool	when i was on oxycodone i barely registered a pulse
23:43	TestingUnoDosTre	yah, that stuff puts me to sleep
23:43	joecool	they had to manually check me in hospital as most of the auto cuffs couldn't pick me up
23:44	TestingUnoDosTre	thats scary
23:44	joecool	bp was like 90/40
23:44	BingoBoingo	I dun like opiates, they make me itch. You ever wake up having a tooth cut in half, and then for several days take pain pills that make you rash more and more?
23:44	BingoBoingo	Damn that's low
23:45	joecool	i use aspirin when i need pain killer, works well
23:45	BingoBoingo	I'm partial to naproxen
23:45	TestingUnoDosTre	I rarely use anything of that sort
23:45	TestingUnoDosTre	i think acetamenophin was the last for me
23:45	TestingUnoDosTre	!up benkay
23:45	assbot	Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
23:46	joecool	i actually picked up the ecig vaping for a short while cause i was experimenting with small amounts of nicotine for memory and to keep my bp from crashing
23:46	TestingUnoDosTre	how do you gage memory recall?
23:46	joecool	TestingUnoDosTre: keep a working journal
23:47	joecool	i used to test myself but i found just logging observations worked better
23:47	TestingUnoDosTre	but how does that test recall
23:48	TestingUnoDosTre	i've heard of nicotine helping the matter, but am wondering how you personally know if your memory is better
23:48	TestingUnoDosTre	for instance, have you ever tried memory methods, etc
23:49	joecool	memory methods? you mean like mnemonics?
23:49	TestingUnoDosTre	yes, method of loci, etc
23:50	artifexd	Nicotine, when separated from all the crap in cigarettes is actually a pretty powerful performance enhancing drug.
23:50	joecool	TestingUnoDosTre: never tried that, reading about it right now
23:50	BingoBoingo	And still somehow more habit forming
23:50	TestingUnoDosTre	its how people began to remember things
23:51	joecool	actually we're not entirely sure at the moment how habit forming nicotine is by itself
23:51	TestingUnoDosTre	only really read about it in the last year or so, my brothers recommend me a book that has other methods in it as well
23:52	joecool	TestingUnoDosTre: my short term memory is bad, so one would assume remembering lists and tasks would be the best way to test oneself (using a memory game or something)
23:52	joecool	but i'm looking for something a little more subjective, trying to see if i can stay focused throughout the entire day and still track tasks
23:52	TestingUnoDosTre	there's a book called "the memory method" i think it's by harry loraine or something
23:52	TestingUnoDosTre	harry L-------
23:52	assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 38 @ 0.03100763 = 1.1783 BTC [-] {3}
23:53	joecool	at the moment the best combo i've found that's very safe is a decent amount of caffeine and some theanine
23:53	TestingUnoDosTre	focus is different to me
23:53	TestingUnoDosTre	like a factory worker can be "focused" for 8 hours a day
23:54	BingoBoingo	I'll politely decline from revealing my secret sauce
23:54	TestingUnoDosTre	but when you tackle something larger, like project, it gets WAY different
23:54	joecool	BingoBoingo: i'm guessing sims
23:54	joecool	*stims
23:54	BingoBoingo	Nah, not really
23:54	artifexd	Regarding the benefits of nicotine: http://examine.com/supplements/Nicotine/
23:54	BingoBoingo	Not for classical definitions of such anyways
23:56	joecool	BingoBoingo: i consider moda a stim if that's that you're talking about
23:56	TestingUnoDosTre	moda?
23:56	artifexd	modafinil
23:56	BingoBoingo	No
23:57	BingoBoingo	You are looking at the wrong class and even the wrong MOA
23:57	joecool	ah
23:58	TestingUnoDosTre	hahaha "modanifil is wall streets favorite drug" on google top returns for modanafil
23:58	TestingUnoDosTre	wall streets drug of choice*
23:58	BingoBoingo	Action is on much lower molecular weight things than catecholemines
23:59	artifexd	TestingUnoDosTre: For any drug/supplement information, you can't get any better than examine.com. Here is modafinil's page: http://examine.com/supplements/Modafinil/
23:59	BingoBoingo	I dunno that Wall street is really an endorsement
23:59	BingoBoingo	artifexd: examine.com sucks compared to http://crazymeds.us

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