Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-03-21 | 2014-03-23 → ↓
00:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00094091 = 46.7632 BTC [+]
00:03 Namworld Oh, that text doesn't matter. If it's FUD it doesn't matter either.
00:04 Namworld I'm just referring to US-Russia bitching each other once again, which is actually happening.
00:04 Namworld How serious it gets, not going to speculate on that.
00:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899999 = 0.118 BTC [-]
00:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200001 = 0.124 BTC [+]
00:13 KRS-One Word is that if serious sanctions are imposed the Russian economy could crash. Jeez we need to work toward global economic growth and this isnt going to help. Hope at least it will save lives.
00:15 chetty Its a global economy, all these guys are tied together, one economy doesn't go down alone
00:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 303 @ 0.00313706 = 0.9505 BTC [-] {12}
00:17 assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 886 @ 0.00083169 = 0.7369 BTC [-] {10}
00:19 KRS-One yeah that was more or less my point
00:20 dignork KRS-One when did it happen that economic sanctions saved people lives?
00:23 dignork US is dropping sanctions in hope that people will revolt, and overthrow Putin, surely it will save lives
00:26 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00315301 = 0.123 BTC [+]
00:29 asciilifeform don't bring castor bean to u.s. uni: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/21/us/georgetown-student-ricin
00:31 KRS-One dignork: not debating that..more or less a contrast to using military force..dont look too much into what i'm saying.
00:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00094103 = 21.4555 BTC [+] {3}
00:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00094127 = 6.4006 BTC [+]
00:53 usaoscoin where is mirc popesku
00:55 B007 sleeping
01:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00625 = 0.1563 BTC [-]
01:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6621 @ 0.00094127 = 6.2321 BTC [+]
01:16 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00315046 = 3.1505 BTC [-] {4}
01:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00094177 = 19.5417 BTC [+] {4}
01:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00093932 = 15.4988 BTC [-] {2}
01:25 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 56 @ 0.0062889 = 0.3522 BTC [+] {2}
01:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19295 @ 0.00094231 = 18.1819 BTC [+]
~ 24 minutes ~
02:02 dub !ticker mp s.mpoe
02:02 assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00082303 / 0.00090392 / 0.00096 (1146822 shares, 1,036.64 BTC), 7D: 0.00079506 / 0.00084304 / 0.00096 (6294202 shares, 5,306.29 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085078 / 0.00096 (29652343 shares, 25,227.87 BTC)
02:02 dub !ticker havelock am1
02:02 assbot [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.59000000 / 0.59855272 / 0.62000000 (89 shares, 53.27119209 BTC), 7D: 0.59000000 / 0.61090914 / 0.63900000 (486 shares, 296.90184044 BTC), 30D: 0.45000000 / 0.57221105 / 0.68000000 (3538 shares, 2024.48269555 BTC)
02:13 Neil .d
02:13 ozbot 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 523 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.0779% in 3d 3h 45m 8s
02:13 Neil Hmm, higher than that I think. The 16% is looking a little close.
02:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00094278 = 11.4548 BTC [+] {2}
~ 27 minutes ~
02:47 cazalla think you'll win Neil?
02:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.59380001 = 1.7814 BTC [+] {2}
02:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25550 @ 0.00094324 = 24.0998 BTC [+] {2}
02:55 cazalla mircea_popescu: is there an archive of logs prior to 26-04-2013?
02:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.0009417 = 13.9372 BTC [-]
03:04 cryptoflood Hey guys, Never really have chat here before just lurked, but I've been learning the ropes for a while now. Lost my last identity due to learning ignorance. Trying to build my WOT rating back up.
03:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0009437 = 21.8467 BTC [+] {2}
03:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.0009393 = 7.4205 BTC [-]
03:31 chetty hello cryptoflood this tends to be a quiet time of day here
03:32 chetty cryptoflood, maybe spend some time reading the logs
~ 18 minutes ~
03:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23966 @ 0.00094567 = 22.6639 BTC [+] {3}
03:57 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.62111065 = 3.1056 BTC [+] {4}
03:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.6213 = 1.8639 BTC [+]
04:02 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62149004 = 1.243 BTC [+] {2}
04:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.62164446 = 8.0814 BTC [+] {2}
04:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
04:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62158008 BTC [-]
04:06 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62169999 BTC [+]
04:07 jurov cazalla, kako said he has them but they need cleaning up
04:07 jurov (i do have some such too)
04:12 KRS-One .bait
04:12 ozbot http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15jylCHi81qf11uso1_500.jpg
04:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 74 @ 0.07206758 = 5.333 BTC [-] {5}
~ 18 minutes ~
04:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00094098 = 11.3388 BTC [-]
04:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 479 @ 0.00313008 = 1.4993 BTC [-] {2}
05:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07200269 = 1.152 BTC [-] {4}
05:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00094098 = 11.1977 BTC [-]
05:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00094135 = 18.6858 BTC [+] {2}
05:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094491 = 16.158 BTC [+] {2}
05:32 mircea_popescu soo what's new.
05:35 mircea_popescu nubbins` maybe just BE nubbins` without a nubbin ?
05:38 mircea_popescu motherfucker twitter changed profile layout
05:49 cazalla jurov: are they online anywhere?
05:50 cazalla nice timing mircea_popescu, do you have logs prior to 26-04-2013?
05:50 mircea_popescu logs of what ?
05:51 cazalla sorry, #bitcoin-assets
05:51 mircea_popescu a
05:51 mircea_popescu yeah
05:52 cazalla available online for public consumption?
05:52 mircea_popescu well no inasmuch as they
05:52 mircea_popescu 're my logs
05:52 cazalla fair enough
05:52 mircea_popescu you'll have to bug kako, and probably volunteer a lot of work
05:53 mircea_popescu i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy
06:07 cazalla perhaps volunteer work is an opportunity to earn some wot
06:08 dnivi3 Anyone bought Cryptorush shares?
06:10 mircea_popescu dnivi3 nobody sane.
06:11 mircea_popescu cazalla this is a point.
06:11 dnivi3 Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen.
06:12 mircea_popescu dividends aren't really the chief consideration in investments.
06:13 dnivi3 Sure, but their business does not seem to thrive anyways so I'd rather pull out. What do you consider the chief consideration?
06:14 VanCleef i wish there was something decent to invest in
06:14 mircea_popescu Untermyer: Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?
06:14 mircea_popescu Morgan: No, sir. The first thing is character.
06:14 mircea_popescu Untermyer: Before money or property?
06:14 mircea_popescu Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it … a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom.
↖
06:16 dnivi3 @micea_popescu: OK, what is that supposed to tell me? @VanCleef: there are some decent funds on Havelock, for example Peta Mine.
06:16 VanCleef isn't petamine just a PMB tho?
06:16 VanCleef therefore bad?
06:17 dnivi3 PMB? Not sure what that means, to be honest. Care to explain?
06:17 VanCleef perpetual mining bond
06:18 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/
06:18 ozbot The problem with PMBs, ie “Perpetual Mining Bonds” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
06:18 VanCleef so like each share locks you into a hashrate not a percentage of the companies total hashing power
06:18 mircea_popescu dnivi3 so give yourself time, lots to learn.
06:18 dnivi3 Ah, that's true. Hmm, interesting.
06:18 VanCleef thus being worth less as the network difficulty goes up?
06:19 dnivi3 Yes, indeed. However, it is not the case though if the mining operation is intending to reinvest (something which PETA intends to do).
06:19 mircea_popescu how is it not true ?
06:20 dnivi3 They have a reinvestment plan for the future, to increase their hashrate. 35% of all profit goes to reinvestment for hash power.
06:20 B007 http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-21/sec-bitcoin-shadow-banking-levitt-on-n-dot-y-dot-probe-compliance
06:20 ozbot SEC-Bitcoin, Shadow Banking, Levitt on N.Y. Probe: Compliance - Businessweek
06:20 B007 made it into my inbox via google alerts on bitcoin
06:21 mircea_popescu dnivi3 so ?
06:21 mircea_popescu i have a bottle of coca cola. 35% of what i drink goes into buying more coca cola
06:21 mircea_popescu therefore my bottle of coca cola can never be empty.
06:22 mircea_popescu what is this, logic 101 for people that haven't mastered the arrow in flight "paradox" ?
06:23 B007 anyway time for bed
06:25 dnivi3 I am not quite sure how the arrow in flight paradox relates to this.
06:27 mircea_popescu the fact that they reinvest some portion of the dividends is completely irrelevant.
06:27 mircea_popescu but completely.
06:27 mircea_popescu if they paid out that 35% you could reinvest it yourself.
06:28 mircea_popescu and it'd even be better, because you wouldn't be locked into whatever braindamage they come up with
06:28 mircea_popescu so in this sense, you're just getting 100% dividend, except a 35% portion of it is actually worth less
06:28 mircea_popescu through being restricted.
06:35 dnivi3 Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I gotta go!
06:37 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ if anyone feels mathematically inclined
06:37 ozbot So here’s a problem for you… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
06:37 chetty A workbook handed out to seventh grade students in Springfield, Ill., states that all Americans must register their firearms in order to have a Second Amendment right.
06:39 mircea_popescu derp
06:39 mircea_popescu you know what springfield is like ?
06:39 VanCleef In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea.
06:40 VanCleef Putin the next C.E.O of bitcoin
06:41 wao-ender yeah, I read it, would be nice.
06:41 HeySteve Putin tried to get a regional processing centre for credit cards several years back
06:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0061 = 0.1159 BTC [-] {2}
06:43 samson_ WTF has Crimea got to do with the US ?
06:43 mircea_popescu https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi5vBxHCcAIfquU.png
06:43 VanCleef usa just being sooks
06:44 VanCleef lol mircea
06:48 VanCleef http://imgur.com/t4vFhsc
06:48 ozbot imgur: the simple image sharer
06:58 VanCleef more i think aboutit my god that whatssapp deal was such a bad buy
07:00 mircea_popescu at least you're not in facebook's shoes
07:02 VanCleef i would rather buy wechat for alot cheaper
07:05 FabianB i don't think tencent would ever sell
07:06 wao-ender let's use telegram instead of whatsapp
07:07 VanCleef heh iunintalled whatsapp already
07:09 mircea_popescu someone actually had it installed ?!
07:11 * wao-ender dont
07:11 chetty http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/21/White-House-Leads-Liberal-Media-In-Matt-Drudge-Attack
07:12 VanCleef :P
07:13 chetty no wonder people are so clueless about finance
~ 25 minutes ~
07:39 MisterE http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-03-21/russia-%E2%80%9Csanction-spiral%E2%80%9D-elegantly-spirals-out-control
07:39 MisterE So I guess if you'e in a fund that invests in a Russian company you could get screwed f that the Russian holdings are sanctioned...
07:39 MisterE where is the url bot?
07:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34558 @ 0.00094047 = 32.5008 BTC [-]
07:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 9324 @ 0.00310323 = 28.9345 BTC [-] {24}
07:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8272 @ 0.00093849 = 7.7632 BTC [-]
07:49 Mats_cd03 Zerohedge is poorly disguised dog shiy
08:03 kakobrekla <mircea_popescu> i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy < like a year of bullshit isnt enough
08:03 mircea_popescu also a point.
08:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1230 @ 0.0031 = 3.813 BTC [-]
08:06 mircea_popescu for bingoboingo and whoever else may care : http://trilema.com/2014/awstats-and-stuff/
08:08 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0031 = 0.775 BTC [-]
08:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 520 @ 0.0031 = 1.612 BTC [-]
08:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00094091 = 17.548 BTC [+] {3}
~ 16 minutes ~
08:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094224 = 8.9513 BTC [+]
08:41 kakobrekla http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524429.msg5837265#msg5837265
08:41 ozbot Let's talk about BTC.SX and MT.GOX
08:41 kakobrekla at times like these, ban hurts.
08:52 Namworld My antivirus considers Google's DoubleClick cookie as an infected files and keeps deleting it.It classify snooping cookies as viruses.
08:52 ThickAsThieves surely you are a man with IPs at your disposal
08:52 Namworld It seems an apt classification.
08:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093849 = 0.9385 BTC [-]
08:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093913 = 0.9391 BTC [+]
~ 15 minutes ~
09:13 kakobrekla i dont think its even ip restricted
09:13 kakobrekla but i would need to register a sock, thats the issue
09:14 kakobrekla http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526064.0
09:14 ozbot We have decided to donate 100btc to those who lost funds from mt gox
09:19 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07100125 = 0.426 BTC [-] {2}
09:25 ThickAsThieves maybe make a sock that isnt a sock, like call yourself Bitcoin Assets
09:25 ThickAsThieves or hell, kakobrekla2
09:26 kakobrekla mebbe, ill see how bad the itch gets
09:30 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61999997 BTC [-]
09:31 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61999998 = 3.72 BTC [+]
09:33 jborkl That is very generous of them
09:33 jborkl :/
09:34 the20year how thoughtful
09:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00093913 = 14.8383 BTC [+] {2}
09:42 Neil .d
09:42 ozbot 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 469 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.4934% in 2d 19h 13m 57s
09:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093984 = 0.9398 BTC [+]
09:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92517 @ 0.000938 = 86.7809 BTC [-] {6}
09:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093452 = 2.3363 BTC [-]
~ 17 minutes ~
10:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27433 @ 0.00093586 = 25.6734 BTC [+] {2}
10:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00094245 = 28.6034 BTC [+] {3}
10:27 mircea_popescu In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit".
10:28 mircea_popescu teh us pseudolegal system is such lol by now.
10:31 chetty http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586765/Breaking-News-Defiant-Ukranian-commander-orders-outnumbered-men-stand-ground-expect-engage-Russian-troops-surrounding-military-base.html
10:34 artifexd I'm having trouble with http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ If there was any bias in the coin, wouldn't that bias show up as a favoring towards heads in the end results?
10:35 artifexd And if there was no bias in the coin, a straight forward flip would be good enough.
10:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094232 = 7.2559 BTC [-]
10:41 mircea_popescu artifexd http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/#comment-98648
10:42 artifexd ohstopityou.jpg
10:42 mircea_popescu :)
10:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6191 BTC [-]
10:46 artifexd I recoded my test for that change and the results are an even distribution regardless of flip bias. Cool.
10:47 artifexd Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out.
10:49 mircea_popescu artifexd if the bias is 100% you'll discard all sets.
10:50 mircea_popescu in computational terms, the algo doesn't crash, it just never finishes.
10:50 artifexd True. But a generator that never generates can hardly be called a generator.
10:50 mircea_popescu depends if you're discussing it as an engineer or as a computer scientist.
10:50 mircea_popescu neumann was the later, and in that context yes it can.
10:51 mircea_popescu after all, it is generatING.
10:51 chetty https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjSS03aCcAANewV.png
10:51 artifexd That strikes me as amusing
10:51 mircea_popescu well it should, because it is :D
10:51 mircea_popescu chetty bwahaha
10:51 chetty they got this wrong, the bitcoin should be the bite
10:52 mircea_popescu or the wall.
10:53 artifexd If anyone wants it, here is the code for the Newman fair-izing test: http://dpaste.com/hold/1752001/
10:54 artifexd Change line 9 to vary the bias to your hearts content.
10:59 mircea_popescu nice.
10:59 mircea_popescu but it is neumann you know
10:59 artifexd That may explain why google failed me
11:00 mircea_popescu whoa you don't know the greatest mathematician that ever lived ?
11:00 mircea_popescu defo must read up on him.
11:00 mircea_popescu ;;google John von Neumann
11:00 gribble John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann>; Von Neumann architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture>; John von Neumann - CS Dept. NSF-Supported Education ...: <http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/VonNeumann.html>
11:02 artifexd I did discover him in my googling. I didn't expect you to misspell his name though so I though you were talking about someone else
11:02 artifexd *thought
11:03 mircea_popescu i misspelled ?!
11:03 artifexd "Ok, so did you come up with Newman’s method or not ?"
11:03 mircea_popescu well HOW EASY do you want me to makle it ;/
11:04 artifexd I only expect you to be you.
11:05 mircea_popescu on my better days.
11:05 mircea_popescu unrelatedtly, this may be lulzy : http://financiallyregulated.com/2013/10/21/man-who-mocked-the-sec-in-his-blog-has-been-indicted/
11:06 nubbins` so pascale's art school was "donated" a bunch of inks from a local screenprint shop
11:06 nubbins` which they in turn donated to us
11:06 nubbins` about a third of them were usable, the rest (10-15 gallons) aren't fit for use
11:06 nubbins` brought em out to the dump today, and they wouldn't take them because it's commercial waste
11:07 mircea_popescu what was the problem with them ?
11:07 nubbins` so now we have 15 gallons of "donated" ink that's gonna cost us $2-300 to dispose of
11:07 nubbins` really old, starting to separate
11:07 mircea_popescu you can probably reemusify them if you have an old washing machine
11:07 nubbins` they're plastisol inks, PVC particles in emulsion
11:07 mircea_popescu so ?
11:08 nubbins` so uh
11:08 nubbins` nothing i guess
11:08 mircea_popescu do you have an old washing machine /
11:08 nubbins` either way, old inks break down
11:08 nubbins` and no, we don't
11:08 mircea_popescu wel lthen you're stuck.
11:08 nubbins` you can take a quart of old ink and mix it with a power drill for an hour and it's still shit
11:08 nubbins` stuck indeed
11:08 mircea_popescu not that way, that doesn't work.
11:08 nubbins` that's what we get for taking donations without inspecting em first
11:08 nubbins` lesson learned
11:09 mircea_popescu you put it in the tumbler, stuff the tumbler with rags or packing peanuts or w/e to keep the cans flush to the side, then hook it to dry for a while.
11:09 mircea_popescu it'll sort them out.
11:10 nubbins` you're a complicated man
11:10 mircea_popescu what did i do now
11:10 nubbins` impressed me with your knowledge of random things
11:10 nubbins` :o
11:10 mircea_popescu lol
11:11 nubbins` either way, fuck these inks
11:11 mircea_popescu well that also works.
11:11 nubbins` unfortunately i can't even sneak em into the trash
11:11 nubbins` well. not with a clear conscience
11:11 mircea_popescu you can just pour them into the toilet, one ounce a day
11:11 mircea_popescu take you a month or so
11:11 nubbins` noooo
11:11 nubbins` the seabirds
11:11 mircea_popescu so you time it out
11:11 mircea_popescu you know, like spacing it out but over time.
11:12 nubbins` heh
11:12 nubbins` well, i've gotta get to printing
11:12 nubbins` try to turn this shit day around
11:12 mircea_popescu noooo
11:12 mircea_popescu the seabirds!
11:13 nubbins` fun fact, we dumped raw sewage into the atlantic until 2 years ago
11:15 mircea_popescu http://www.sehn.org/Endocrine_Disruption.html << that's the plasticiser, btw
11:15 ozbot Science & Environmental Health Network - Ecological Medicine: Essays
11:15 mircea_popescu probably some phtalate ester or other
11:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15246 @ 0.00094232 = 14.3666 BTC [-]
11:17 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00305112 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {3}
11:21 mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 < check it out, jimothy's being upstaged.
11:21 ozbot Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. All say aye.., say AYE, "AYE!"
11:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.003075 = 0.1015 BTC [+]
11:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0710566 = 1.0658 BTC [+] {4}
11:36 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07100124 = 1.42 BTC [-] {2}
11:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28304 @ 0.00094257 = 26.6785 BTC [+] {2}
11:54 only they will soon come up with bitcoin: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-authentication-in-the-new-uk-1-coin-work
11:55 mircea_popescu for some values of soon
11:55 artifexd https://leastauthority.com/blog/BLAKE2-harder-better-faster-stronger-than-MD5.html#id1
11:55 ozbot Least Authority
11:55 artifexd relevant quote "the Bitcoin network is performing enough computation to generate SHA-1 collisions every 131 minutes!"
11:56 mircea_popescu luckily the uk pound isn't worth the hassle.
11:57 only 45m+ 1 pound coin fakes in circulation
11:58 mircea_popescu that's almost enough to start a fake bitcoin mining farm
11:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.42564200 BTC to 4`100 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
11:59 mircea_popescu http://financiallyregulated.com/2011/11/21/strips-investor-stripped-of-his-investment-dignity/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=3489&relatedposts_position=1
11:59 mircea_popescu this guy should be covering bitcoin corps.
12:01 ThickAsThieves Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. So let's discuss!
12:01 only lol
12:01 mircea_popescu guy's worried that all his shady work promoting various scams may land him in hot water.
12:02 mircea_popescu which... who knows, always a possibility.
12:02 assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share
12:03 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 118000 @ 0.0109775 = 1295.345 BTC [-]
12:03 mircea_popescu $depth x.idiff.jun
12:03 mpexbot mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: []
12:03 mpexbot mircea_popescu: Asks: ['127000 @ 0.0109775']
12:04 mircea_popescu look at that, we're trading.
12:04 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 5000 @ 0.0109775 = 54.8875 BTC [-]
12:04 ThickAsThieves wow
12:05 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 100132 @ 0.0109775 = 1099.199 BTC [-] {2}
12:05 mircea_popescu hm
12:05 mircea_popescu .d
12:05 ozbot 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 454 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.2920% in 2d 17h 27m 5s
12:05 mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.15**7
12:05 gribble 11.305084492
12:06 mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.125**7
12:06 gribble 9.69296371937
12:06 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 26868 @ 0.0109775 = 294.9435 BTC [-] {2}
12:06 mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.145**7
12:06 gribble 10.9654721643
12:06 mircea_popescu so 14.5% till june
12:08 mircea_popescu $vwap x.idiff.jun
12:08 mpexbot mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN 1 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 7 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 30 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575
12:09 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 25393 @ 0.0109775 = 278.7517 BTC [-]
12:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00326812 = 0.4902 BTC [+] {6}
12:11 mircea_popescu suddenly that 16% bet appears a lot more interesting.
12:11 mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.18**6
12:11 gribble 11.4731051504
12:11 asciilifeform re: hash algos: one could argue that any hash function whose defeat (preimage, etc.) wouldn't sink something major (e.g. btc) isn't worth using.
12:11 mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.16**6
12:11 gribble 10.354684372
12:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform these days, yes.
12:12 asciilifeform naturally this only applies to cryptographic hashes, rather than checksums
12:12 mircea_popescu ten-twenty years ago there was nothing really major that depended on them so.
12:12 asciilifeform right. but we're in today.
12:12 mircea_popescu we are.
12:13 mircea_popescu most experts are over 50 and don't hang out in the right places, so
12:13 mircea_popescu one can prolly make a living for years just out of that observation.
12:14 asciilifeform i still think it possible that there are competent people, but 'dark matter' because why should they talk.
12:14 mircea_popescu because it's fun, and human.
12:14 asciilifeform no argument
12:16 artifexd For some people, talking is not fun. Or maybe it is, but writing code is orders of magnitude more fun than writing english.
12:17 mircea_popescu possibly because they never bothered to learn english properly.
12:17 artifexd It isn't about the medium. It's about the audience.
12:18 mircea_popescu i never heard of a programmer that judged the languages on the basis of the machines involved.
12:18 kakobrekla alert('whats wrong with the audience here?');
12:18 mircea_popescu "javascript is really cool, it works on every shitty laptop out there"
12:18 mircea_popescu as opposed to "lisp is crap, they only run it on shit"
12:18 artifexd The audience of english is other humans, generally. The audience of code is the machine.
12:19 mircea_popescu the audience is abstracted in either case.
12:19 assbot hey!
12:19 mircea_popescu that's trhe very point of having a language : abstracting the audience.
12:19 mircea_popescu otherwise you'd just carry a soldering iron everywhere.
12:20 Ghaleon solid point
12:21 mircea_popescu and i can't even say it in c++
12:21 mircea_popescu because.... wait for it... c++ IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH :D
12:21 Ghaleon as programmers we must rise up now and be better bridges between humans and machines, money is the lifeblood of human energy, thus we must improve as ambassardors
12:21 artifexd Success in communicating via code is much easier to measure than in english. "Did it compile?" vs "Did he/she understand me?"
12:21 mircea_popescu artifexd if you're limiting yourself to successes you can measure you're more likely to become obese than get laid.
12:21 Ghaleon hence the typical irc, leet jerk attitude is bout to be extinct
↖
12:22 asciilifeform 'Did it compile?' << i should hope that you are joking re: this being a standard of success in your work
12:22 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.07148303 = 2.1445 BTC [+] {8}
12:22 kakobrekla but 'did it compile' check is equal to 'did i make any typos' not 'is the code fucking shit'
12:22 mircea_popescu poor artifexd ended up in a shitspot
12:22 mircea_popescu kakobrekla stop fuding and slandering bitcointalk CEOs.
12:23 asciilifeform see also herr dijkstra's aphorism re: bugs
12:23 kakobrekla what did i do nao
12:23 mircea_popescu the time to be kakobrekla'd is never! say aye!
12:23 artifexd Standard of success? No. Measurement? Sure. "Yes compile" is further along than "No compile"
12:23 mircea_popescu Ghaleon as you approach mastery you'll notice the leet asshole is an epic bridge builder type.
12:24 Ghaleon mp, yes, the challenge is finding that person who can build the epic bridges and present the right face... without going insane for long enough
12:24 Ghaleon this community is doing an awesomejob
12:24 Ghaleon your letter to sec was an example of that
12:25 Ghaleon respectable, legally sound, defiant.. yet friendly
12:25 mircea_popescu but im the elitist asshole to end all elitist assholes.
12:25 Ghaleon people can look up to that
12:25 Ghaleon join the club brah
12:25 mircea_popescu lol
12:25 mircea_popescu i suppose "leet jerk" 8======D "elitist asshole"
12:26 mircea_popescu and by that penis i have represented a proper equality.
12:26 Ghaleon lolz
12:26 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 48 @ 0.62805964 = 30.1469 BTC [+] {11}
12:26 asciilifeform |===D - sapper's shovel?
12:26 Ghaleon we had a great article about bit coin archetypes before
12:27 Ghaleon bit coins greatest value is that it is getting people to ask "what is money really" ?
12:27 Ghaleon henry Ford's vision is coming to pass
12:27 Ghaleon as things move forward we will be able to ask "how do people use money really?"
12:27 Ghaleon and get an answer thanks to the blockchain
12:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.63 = 10.08 BTC [+]
12:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-02-2014#514471 in loving reference to that
12:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00598292 = 0.3829 BTC [-] {5}
12:29 Ghaleon i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward
12:30 mircea_popescu "Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created “a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS.” A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A
12:30 mircea_popescu screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is."
12:31 mircea_popescu " He also “generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false.” Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer."
12:31 mircea_popescu Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on “TLG TV,” which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims “posing with stacks of money on his lap.”
12:31 mircea_popescu apparently they didn't have lambos in fiat yet.
12:32 mircea_popescu (for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's)
12:32 asciilifeform no shortage of trambos though.
12:32 asciilifeform (trabambos?)
12:33 mircea_popescu tra' bimbos!
12:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00594301 = 0.1189 BTC [-] {2}
12:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63011 = 1.2602 BTC [+]
12:37 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07589959 = 0.3036 BTC [+]
12:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07589959 = 0.4554 BTC [+] {2}
12:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07589958 = 0.2277 BTC [-]
12:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094254 = 2.8276 BTC [-]
12:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00307001 = 0.1535 BTC [-] {4}
12:56 benkay good morning!
12:56 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 178 @ 0.00555884 = 0.9895 BTC [+] {2}
12:59 mircea_popescu http://www.kdnuggets.com/2014/03/how-deep-learning-analytics-mimic-mind.html
12:59 ozbot How Deep Learning Analytics Mimic the Mind
12:59 mircea_popescu heh.
13:02 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.0726 = 2.178 BTC [-] {2}
13:05 mircea_popescu Arden Elizabeth @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Improvement, Part I: Grit Is More Important Than Talent (link)
13:05 mircea_popescu Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu RT @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Satisfaction, Part I: Girth Is More Important Than ta Length (link)
13:06 mircea_popescu i wonder if she takes it well.
13:08 benkay re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia?
13:13 chetty benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up
13:14 asciilifeform 'for many years, most artificial neural network research was focused on networks with a single layer of processing.' wat. !111?111!
13:15 asciilifeform http://www.csulb.edu/~cwallis/artificialn/History.htm
13:16 asciilifeform minksy & papert showed that single-layer NN cannot even learn 'XOR'. this touched off the first 'ai winter.'
13:16 asciilifeform i thought everyone knew this.
13:16 ThickAsThieves http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20140318.pdf
13:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00094278 = 5.421 BTC [+]
13:16 ThickAsThieves http://i.imgur.com/AQTiDmB.jpg
13:18 asciilifeform (it's a freshman homework-level proof incidentally)
13:18 ThickAsThieves http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl236.aspx
13:18 ozbot Untitled 1
13:19 asciilifeform incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni
↖ ↖
13:19 asciilifeform we had a homework of evolving (genetic algo) - rather than, as usually done, 'training' a small NN
↖
13:19 asciilifeform to solve very simple arithmetic problems
13:20 asciilifeform when using '/dev/random' rng (of the time) the bugger took several hours to converge
13:21 asciilifeform but when using a turd downloaded from ? (was it lavarand? or john walker's geiger? wish i remembered) it took minutes.
13:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32984 @ 0.0009431 = 31.1072 BTC [+] {3}
13:22 asciilifeform if you don't adequately 'massage' the state space, you get miserable evolution.
13:22 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 522 @ 0.00307122 = 1.6032 BTC [-] {7}
13:25 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00305318 = 3.0532 BTC [-] {9}
13:25 bounce so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG?
13:26 asciilifeform nothing mystical about it. poor rng, for the application described above, is like watered gasoline
13:26 asciilifeform objectively poor performance.
13:26 asciilifeform note that this anecdote had nothing to do with cryptography.
13:26 asciilifeform (the usual place where people concern themselves with rng quality)
13:26 asciilifeform (the other being - gambling)
13:27 asciilifeform a shoddy rng ends up 'dwelling' in some portions of the state space
13:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0589876 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}
13:31 asciilifeform re: NNs: their present-day niche obscurity is well-deserved. try using it for any application with regular novel inputs, and notice how it 'forgets.'
13:31 decimation asciilifeform you mentioned in the past that you did not care for mechanical hard drives. Does this mean you put a flash drive in your Libretto?
13:32 asciilifeform (recognition problems with fixed sets, like OCR, work great)
13:32 asciilifeform decimation: as a matter of fact, i did.
13:32 decimation how did you adapt to the ancient ide connectors?
13:33 asciilifeform decimation: you can get PATA SSD drives.
13:33 decimation for a premium, as I recall :)
13:34 decimation I like your idea of underprovisioning the drive to leave room for bad flash cells
13:34 asciilifeform decimation: i used a 'Transcend' TS64GPSD330. <$100 at the time.
13:34 bounce or a pata<->cf converter
13:34 decimation I guess capacity isn't an issue here really
13:34 asciilifeform no room for converter
13:34 decimation right
13:35 asciilifeform if you have a libretto, the drive has to fit. exactly.
13:35 decimation as is the case with most laptops
13:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24271 @ 0.00094235 = 22.8718 BTC [-] {4}
13:35 asciilifeform libretto has the least slack space in the bay of any machine of that period that i've owned.
13:36 asciilifeform back in the day, i found that not one of three different pata<->cf cards would fit.
13:36 decimation that's surprising
13:36 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]
13:36 decimation I wish there were an ssd available that let you examine its innards
13:36 asciilifeform most of them have cheap through-hole solder jobs and protrude almost 1mm
13:37 asciilifeform decimation: most of them disassemble just fine
13:37 decimation no, I mean the firmware
13:37 asciilifeform ah
13:37 asciilifeform i dumped 'intel' and 'samsung's ssd fw. ida eats it up like a champ.
13:37 decimation but now that you mention it, they would be a good place to find cheap flash chips
13:38 decimation heh
13:38 asciilifeform a little tricky to make sense of what goes on inside, given undocumented regs a-plenty
13:38 decimation what cpu does it use? 8051?
13:38 asciilifeform one was an 'arm' variant, the other, a big-endian mips with a couple of custom cores, if i recall
13:38 BCB mircea_popescu, did Gilliams list on mpex
13:38 asciilifeform forget which was which
13:39 decimation bunnie has a whole post on hacking SD cards
13:39 decimation http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554
13:39 ozbot On Hacking MicroSD Cards « bunnie's blog
13:39 asciilifeform there was also a fellow who booted linux kernel on the controllers of dead hdds recently
13:39 decimation lol
13:39 asciilifeform i experimented with this myself a few yrs ago, but life got in the way
13:39 decimation the microcontroller on board is basically free
13:40 asciilifeform ('the bad dancer is hindered by his arse.' kudos to the kid)
13:42 decimation I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid
13:42 decimation thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware
13:42 asciilifeform this wouldn't even be such a problem if it actually worked
13:42 mircea_popescu BCB no ?
13:42 asciilifeform but try getting a sharp 100kHz wave, for instance, out of a 'micro' running java
13:42 benkay "Those concerned about e-waste may (or may not) be pleased to know that it’s also common for vendors to use recycled flash chips salvaged from discarded parts."
13:43 asciilifeform (by toggling pins)
13:43 asciilifeform 'eat recycled food. it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'
13:43 decimation heh exactly
13:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the guys are retards of prime order, which is why i quoted it.
13:43 decimation Or get weeks of battery life out of a lithium cell
13:44 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves is that dope ?
13:45 asciilifeform re: the dope: simply owning the 'pill press' required to stamp the pictured items is quasi-illegal in usa
13:45 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]
13:45 asciilifeform unless you're a 'registered' whatever
13:46 mircea_popescu bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed
13:46 asciilifeform (ianal, but if i recall, it's not actually illegal, but was ruled 'probable cause' for police search)
13:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft.
13:47 asciilifeform this is a well-known fact. the 'ai winters' were merely the flip sides of 'ai summers', bacchanalia of graft of every variety
13:48 decimation of course, NN do work as ascii pointed out
13:48 asciilifeform see, for instance, this:
13:48 asciilifeform http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Thinking-Machines.aspx?pg=3#194568
13:48 decimation just not against problems of the "I don't know what I want" variety
13:48 ozbot Thinking Machines - The Daily WTF
13:48 asciilifeform 'Yes, our office was magnificent and yes, a gourmet chef and her entourage came in every day to cook our lunch. The meals were awesome.'
13:49 asciilifeform http://www.inc.com/magazine/19950915/2622_Printer_Friendly.html
13:49 ozbot The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines, Bankruptcy Article | Inc.com
13:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform freer people would make home candy in the pattern and distribute it to neighbourhood kids.
13:49 asciilifeform re: thinking machines, see mp's 'tin woman' essay.
13:49 mircea_popescu decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once.
13:50 mircea_popescu sure they work. not for everything all the time.
13:50 bounce "hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death.
13:50 asciilifeform this particular broom actually fires small-caliber quite well. in every OCR app, for example.
13:50 mircea_popescu bounce i suspect the statements are homologuous.
13:50 bounce could be
13:50 decimation as for e-waste: http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/devices/us-bill-would-fight-chip-counterfeiting
13:51 decimation " According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy."
13:51 decimation Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers
13:51 asciilifeform decimation: did you see the recent incident with Fluke Corp. ?
13:51 mircea_popescu heh
13:51 decimation or, to be more precise, hiring and paying competent inspectors is a bridge too far for USG
13:51 decimation no I didn't, what happened?
13:52 asciilifeform https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428
13:52 ozbot Fluke, we love you but you're killing us. - News - SparkFun Electronics
13:52 decimation did you ever wonder how many TSA agents could identify diddled electronics with their xray machines?
13:52 asciilifeform tldr - fluke corp. has a trademark on... yellow voltmeters. chinese shipment of yellow voltmeters held up at customs, burned.
13:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00094421 = 23.5108 BTC [+] {3}
13:53 asciilifeform the next day, they 'apologized' by... supplying a crate of free fluke meters to the victim
↖
13:54 asciilifeform and saying 'we're not the least bit sorry and shall do it again always'
13:54 decimation so, in the land of the free, the USG has granted a monopoly on yellow DMM's and then began enforcing the monopoly using taxpayer funds.
13:54 mircea_popescu gotta support the team.
13:54 asciilifeform there is really no qualitative difference between this and every other 'ip' enforcement action.
13:54 decimation Except, that's exactly what happened with the boston tea party
13:55 mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fowd29dOyh0
13:55 ozbot Puddy Paints His Face [Seinfeld] - YouTube
13:55 asciilifeform now, for those who do not know, fluke is one of those remaining outfits that... builds things in usa
13:55 asciilifeform traditionally, if you wanted an 'adult' measurement instrument (multimeter, oscilloscope, etc) you got a fluke or hp (now 'agilent')
13:55 asciilifeform or suffered with chinese crap
13:56 asciilifeform but now, the chinese instruments are quite usable
13:56 asciilifeform and you can even get calibration certificates for them, for some extra cost
13:56 decimation yeah I have noticed a trend here with a variety of electronic products
13:56 asciilifeform fluke, naturally, 'will not go quietly into the good night'
13:57 decimation yeah, but making lame patents isn't going to win in the end
13:57 asciilifeform i doubt that anyone at fluke likes to think about 'the end'
13:57 asciilifeform this incident showed all the symptoms of 'bite of the cornered beast.'
13:57 mircea_popescu decimation why not ?
13:58 decimation well, in this specific case, I think it will be impossible to create a ring of patents that will stop the mongol hordes
13:59 asciilifeform note that this wasn't even a patent case
13:59 decimation It's always going to be more expensive to pay lawyers than to develop a patent-evading version of a device
13:59 asciilifeform trademark. on yellow plastic.
13:59 decimation that makes it even more lame
14:00 mircea_popescu you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance ?
14:00 mircea_popescu stuffing hands in ears and yelling works "indefinitely".
14:00 decimation well, in the specific case of high-end test equipment, most buyers are not going to be easily swayed by bs
14:00 decimation if they can halve their costs, anyway
14:00 mircea_popescu but there's going to be a corner somehwere the retarded kids gather
14:01 decimation indeed
14:01 mircea_popescu and talk among each other about how "putin is living in a different world"
14:01 asciilifeform the other notable thing was that this was an ultra-low-end product
14:01 decimation they are going to get stem degrees
14:01 mircea_popescu if you ask its citizenry, the us south still lives.
14:01 decimation http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/
14:01 ozbot The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage - Michael S. Teitelbaum - The Atlantic
14:01 bounce loved $article about shenzen though. made me wish for actual EE skill.
14:01 decimation Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.
↖
14:01 mircea_popescu lol
14:01 decimation what do you say about a "superpower" that can barely employ 300,000 EE's
14:02 mircea_popescu it can employ an infinity of them
14:02 mircea_popescu but it can't turn 100mn ghetto kids into more than 300k passible ee's
14:02 mircea_popescu and about 50mn paralegals of all types.
14:02 asciilifeform there is a 'gresham's law' / 'lemon car effect' at work with the EEs
14:02 decimation that's true
14:03 decimation asian countries will subsidize them to the hilt
14:03 mircea_popescu afaik actualy us-citizen ee's vs total ee's have a worse salary problem than women/men in non-government, actually productive jobs do.
14:03 decimation the talent moves there
14:03 asciilifeform some months ago, i spoke with an EE prof (consultation) at a major american uni
14:04 asciilifeform his several dozen grad students - not one could write a simple program for an embedded cpu.
14:04 mircea_popescu that's not even the worst part.
14:04 decimation that's sad
14:04 mircea_popescu he couldn'rt force them to work webcams naked for a month is the worst part.
14:04 asciilifeform and these people get Ph.D and 'graduate'
14:04 asciilifeform 9 out of 10 india/china
14:04 mircea_popescu ;;google mit battery
14:04 gribble Batteries - MIT News Office: <http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/topic/batteries.html>; Liquid Metal Batteries - Group Sadoway: <http://sadoway.mit.edu/research/liquid-metal-batteries>; Better batteries through biology? - MIT News Office: <http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/better-batteries-through-biology-1113.html>
14:04 asciilifeform yes, and this.
14:05 mircea_popescu obligatory link to that being, of course,
14:05 decimation my experience as us undergrad EE about 10 years ago
14:05 asciilifeform but it had the angle of pillorying american undergrads at posh unis
14:05 mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhk9eKOLzQ
14:05 ozbot MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube
14:05 decimation 1/3 chinese, 1/3 indian, 1/3 white males
14:05 mircea_popescu "we are the premier engineer and science institution in teh werld"
14:05 decimation grad department (and profs) 80% chinese/indian
14:05 mircea_popescu guy looks like a fucking shaving cream model.
14:05 asciilifeform there's two separate diseases at work
14:06 mircea_popescu at least, yeah/
14:06 asciilifeform the american kids can't xxxx because, well, american schooling, 'diversity', etc. the eastern kids, they, in principle, could
14:06 asciilifeform but won't. because 'i can lift it off the net'
14:06 mircea_popescu im not sure that's a bad thing
14:07 asciilifeform it is in practice almost always a bad thing
14:07 mircea_popescu only absent superivision.
14:07 asciilifeform not for 'religious' reasons, but practical ones
14:07 decimation wrt embedded stuff "lifting off the net" never works well
14:07 benkay all americans are lacking supervision, though.
14:07 asciilifeform with the trend for centralization (everybody but a few weirdos runs 'arm' chips, compiles c/cpp) it 'works'
14:08 asciilifeform for a while, at least.
14:08 mircea_popescu see, if the context is, "be able to power bulb with battery on request or spend the next month poledancing in mumbai"
14:08 mircea_popescu it no longer matters what the kid is lifting off net.
14:08 decimation well, as long as the asians keep shipping those parts
14:09 decimation to be an American today is to put your head deep in the lion's mouth, on the understanding that he won't bite
14:09 mircea_popescu decimation indefinitely extensible. "be able to also design the battery"
14:09 mircea_popescu wrong lion, wrong mouth tho
14:09 decimation yeah you make a good point
14:10 decimation at some point the bills will come due. It's hard to see how the US is going to add much value to anything with only 300k EEs
14:10 mircea_popescu you know the refuge of dying empires
14:10 mircea_popescu they're doing a lot of scholastics.
14:10 asciilifeform i'm certainly not the first to describe this, but u.s. education system 'bit-shifted'. i.e. 'college is the new high school', and thereby it follows that 'phd is the new college'
14:10 mircea_popescu "we are adding the TRUE value to everything through teh social media"
14:10 asciilifeform so in that light, phd students who crib buggy code from stackoverflow and pass it off as a thesis are unsurprising.
14:11 benkay i wish i'd had an education in the classic sense.
14:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform vaugely reminiscent of all the chinese administrative reorganisations
14:11 benkay old books, hard problems, canings, etc.
14:11 mircea_popescu basically the chinese ran all the middle ages on a sort of govt-sponsored us university program
14:11 bounce nothing for it but give yourself one, even if N years late.
14:12 mircea_popescu i'm with the b's. both of em.
14:12 asciilifeform more or less this.
14:12 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07270143 = 1.0905 BTC [+] {3}
14:12 asciilifeform if you never learned the skill of inflicting pain on yourself, it might be hard to start though
14:12 asciilifeform perhaps there was a reason for the yoga bed of nails.
14:13 mircea_popescu get a mistress.
14:13 decimation even "biotech" is just a bunch of bs
14:13 decimation from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. "
14:13 mircea_popescu i dun believe much in this masturbatory pain thing
14:14 asciilifeform ;;google phillip greenspun women computing
14:14 gribble Women in Computing - Philip Greenspun: <http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/acm-women-in-computing>; Women in Science - Philip Greenspun: <http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science>; Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Women and computer programmers: <http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2011/03/18/women-and-computer-programmers/>
14:14 asciilifeform 2nd link is it.
14:14 asciilifeform (this is not really about women, but about american academia)
14:14 decimation yeah that's a good article
14:14 mircea_popescu i recall that articxle.
14:14 asciilifeform 'Does this make sense as a career for anyone? Absolutely! Just get out your atlas.'
14:15 mircea_popescu i hate greenspun for having deleted his original discussion of his adventures with "expert vcs"
14:15 mircea_popescu greylock and co
14:15 benkay bounce: that's what i'm working on. -assets has been an intellectual godsend.
14:15 benkay in other news, my user group got kicked from our corporate sponsor's shop next month for a "women in tech event"
14:16 mircea_popescu benkay https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 there's one jus' for you then :D
14:16 benkay "great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally.
14:17 asciilifeform 'The first round of layoffs had started. Salaries were frozen. Requests for new laptop computers were being denied. Meanwhile, Handler had an enormous marble archway installed in the atrium of the Carter Ink Building. When a national supercomputer conference was held in Seattle, she decided to stay in San Francisco and commute to Seattle from the swank Stanford Court Hotel. She commissioned a $40,000 logo desig
14:17 asciilifeform n for a CM-5 sweatshirt and then rejected it. While the company was sinking, she focused her attention on putting out a cookbook with recipes from the company's now-infamous cafeteria. Increasingly paranoid, she had a video camera aimed at her personal parking spot and, by some accounts, made people take meetings with her in her parked car. She hired a bodyguard, telling her colleagues that she had received dea
14:17 asciilifeform th threats. Some members of Thinking Machines' board suddenly seemed to realize that the person who had been running the company all those years had no business skills. The board discussed dumping Handler, but she managed to get her biggest enemies there kicked off.'
14:17 asciilifeform (from the 'thinking machines' obituary)
14:17 the20year1 nice
14:18 benkay mircea_popescu: you're not paying me to spend any time at that domain i don't think
14:18 mircea_popescu im sure i don't.
14:19 benkay so let 'em rot.
14:19 asciilifeform benkay: re: 'w. in comp.' - the maggots on the corpse, are not the murder weapon.
14:19 mircea_popescu ^
14:19 mircea_popescu aptly put.
14:19 decimation at least Mr. Cray had the good sense to die in a car accident
14:20 asciilifeform for instance:
14:20 asciilifeform the uni where i studied 'comp sci' has abolished many of the hardest items in the syllabus (or made them optional)
14:20 asciilifeform i visited recently, to hear a talk, and noticed more girls in one classroom than there ever were in the whole bldg.
14:21 mircea_popescu i had a friend. he was a touch paranoid, so he ended up carrying a bodyguard with him everywhere, in spite of living in a controlled town
14:21 asciilifeform but i don't blame them for the decline
14:21 mircea_popescu (1994-2004 a 300k pop town had exactly 0 murders)
14:21 mircea_popescu eventually he got an electyed position, which gave him a driver.
14:21 asciilifeform 'controlled' as in, say, Chelyabinsk-40 ?
14:22 mircea_popescu he hated being driven around, so his car arrangement consisted of him driving two people about, who had nothing to do.
14:22 mircea_popescu eventually he died, in a car crash, rushing home tired etc.
14:22 mircea_popescu i wanted the obituary to read "at least he had his bodyguard with him" but people thought it's too soon.
14:23 asciilifeform people love stories like this ('mighty hero dies of paper cut')
14:23 asciilifeform e.g. alexander
14:24 decimation yeah perhaps it is still too early for my dark Seymour Cray joke. He was a giant amoung elves
14:25 mircea_popescu anyway, check out benkay ascetically depriving himself of internet lulz.
14:25 decimation http://www.computer.org/portal/web/awards/seymourbio ?Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system.?
14:25 ozbot Seymour Cray Biography
14:25 mircea_popescu the path to pain starts with but a single step!
14:27 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Always interesting to see your stats
14:28 benkay internet lulz are cheap, mircea_popescu.
14:28 benkay and those aren't even terribly lulzy!
14:28 benkay pantagruel and gargantua is more entertaining than btctalk.org
14:29 benkay Wooster and Jeeves being far more entertaining on basically every metric.
14:29 benkay written by professionals, acted by professionals...
14:31 mircea_popescu ineed.
14:31 bounce I say. In the spirit of expensive lulz, wish I had the spare change to buy up cray and move their headquarters to 4 2nd inf loop
14:36 asciilifeform cray was a titan
14:36 asciilifeform invented (among a hundred other things) 'pipelining'
14:38 the20year1 without him we wouldn't have the last starfighter
14:38 asciilifeform as someone who personally had occasion to deal with problems that are not amenable to '1024 chickens,' i miss cray
14:44 asciilifeform who doesn't know the old, unofficial and very alliterative slogan of the (traditional) nsa - 'acres of crays'
14:45 asciilifeform some of the (officially released, not leaked) papers of the latter reveal that crap corp. was 'bailed out' as a 'national seekoority' matter
14:45 asciilifeform *cray corp
14:45 asciilifeform damn
14:46 asciilifeform sad thing is, they sell 'chickens' now.
14:46 asciilifeform like everybody else.
14:48 asciilifeform (x86-64)
14:49 asciilifeform perhaps if cray were alive, you could buy 'fpga' the size of a billboard...
14:50 mircea_popescu im bashing the crap corp
14:50 asciilifeform lol
14:50 asciilifeform fingers have will of their own.
14:57 ThickAsThieves <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves is that dope ? /// is what what now?
14:58 mircea_popescu some round small shits in a pic you linked
14:58 ThickAsThieves oh, I assume so
14:58 ThickAsThieves who knows, kids these days
14:59 mircea_popescu racist.
14:59 ThickAsThieves I;m writing my first blog
14:59 the20year1 yay
14:59 ThickAsThieves having trouble keeping it short
14:59 ThickAsThieves oh well
15:00 mircea_popescu http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentViewer.aspx?fid=54539da2-994e-43b5-b271-19fbb7e723e3
15:00 ozbot Markopolos Letter to the SEC about Madoff | Doug Cornelius - JDSupra
15:00 mircea_popescu if anyones curious to read fiat mpoe-pr cca 2005
15:00 mircea_popescu (of course, the guy was ignored. by the sec and everyone else on the fiat-forums)
15:01 ThickAsThieves i started this writing thinking i wouldnt be a hipster and use footnotes
15:01 ThickAsThieves i was wrong
15:02 mircea_popescu there's a reason footnotes survived three empires.
15:12 mircea_popescu "Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri
15:12 mircea_popescu pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day
15:12 mircea_popescu s I get a good day).
15:12 mircea_popescu Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine, the next my face aches, tinnitus (motor in my ear), then suddenly my abdomen, then feet, then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling that my stomach wants to exit my body, etc.."
15:12 mircea_popescu why is it that bitcoin attracts all the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere
15:12 mircea_popescu what are we supposed to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?!
15:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6334999 BTC [-]
15:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17166 @ 0.00094503 = 16.2224 BTC [+] {3}
15:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7034 @ 0.00094618 = 6.6554 BTC [+]
15:24 jurov mircea_popescu: if they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here, too
15:24 jurov what i heard ibm job is much cozier than getting worried for several months if that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday
15:24 mircea_popescu but in the sense of accident "i'd have been to busy to hear of bitcoin" or in the sense of stupidity ?
15:25 jurov not stupidity, just choosing easier path
15:25 mircea_popescu how shall i put this in better terms.
15:25 jurov but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll try freelancing
15:26 mircea_popescu well but wait.
15:26 mircea_popescu here's the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes to new york. there's no jobs there, so he goes to oregon and makes himself a cabin.
15:26 mircea_popescu that's type one.
15:27 mircea_popescu suppose there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all the beat cops know him so he goes to oregon
15:27 mircea_popescu and he loiters there for a while, not as disturbed.
15:27 mircea_popescu that's type two.
15:27 mircea_popescu now you telling me there's no difference you see here ?
15:28 jurov i'm just telling you why i think non-cruft fails to be attracted to bitcoin
15:28 mircea_popescu greenspun's 4th, linked earlier hehe
15:28 mircea_popescu "This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs."
15:28 jurov cannot say anything about the cruft group
15:40 jurov i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense they can get easily over-average salary) trapped in conspirational mindset
15:40 jurov to them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose
15:42 mircea_popescu gotta pierce that veil.
15:42 mircea_popescu i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.
15:42 mircea_popescu not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them.
15:45 mircea_popescu Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori
15:45 mircea_popescu ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster.
15:45 mircea_popescu epic.
15:49 benkay mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running their businesses, tending to their mistresses etc?
15:49 Dimsler lol
15:49 decimation well, academia has been transformed into bureaucratic employment
15:49 Dimsler bitcoin = pyramid scheme
15:49 Dimsler at this point
15:50 mircea_popescu you'd have to be an idiot to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so that you tend to them.
15:50 kakobrekla no, its a triangle of opportunity
15:50 mircea_popescu they should tend to you.
15:50 benkay wait how does the business tend to you?
15:50 decimation what's the difference between the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a tenure check?
15:50 mircea_popescu for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion to your actual effort
15:50 benkay mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but the business? does it not take ongoing tweaking and leadership?
15:51 mircea_popescu if you want bread, and i want bread, and you spend an hour and make a loaf
15:51 mircea_popescu and i spend an hour and make forty-nine and a half loaves
15:51 mircea_popescu i'd say my business tended to me worth 48 loaves and change.
15:52 benkay ah.
15:53 mircea_popescu decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a time before that.
15:54 decimation certainly those who desire attention would be willing to pay to work as a teacher, actor, etc
15:54 mircea_popescu now, obviously, training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative
15:55 mircea_popescu but provided you're any good the end result is so far out of proportion to the original that your net negative becomes a rounding error.
15:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00094618 = 23.3233 BTC [+]
15:58 mircea_popescu anyway, for balance, http://calvincorreli.com/2002/02/08/goodbye-arsdigita/
15:59 benkay ah sorry net negative? even after the time and energy pumped into the new girl or venture?
16:00 benkay strikes me that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting tendered.
16:01 mircea_popescu reread eh.
16:01 decimation ?SAP is the best thing that ever happened to
16:01 decimation computer people. It appeals to businesses that are too stupid to
16:01 decimation understand and model their own processes but too rich to simply
16:01 decimation continue relying on secretaries and file cabinets,?
16:01 decimation lol
16:02 decimation and why are they "too rich" to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life
16:04 mircea_popescu you clearly haven't been in business in the old days.
16:04 mircea_popescu the one affront an old lion could never forget, let alone forgive, would be hiring his secretary away.
16:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 174 @ 0.00591526 = 1.0293 BTC [-] {13}
16:05 mircea_popescu the reason is that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating those filing cabinets is worth ?
16:05 mircea_popescu to this day the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where the binder goes.
16:05 mircea_popescu not she who can take out the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in.
16:07 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 21 @ 0.05897618 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {5}
16:07 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200105 = 0.124 BTC [-]
16:07 mircea_popescu anyway, let's do the world a favor here
16:07 mircea_popescu ;;later tell bugpowder http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science
16:07 gribble The operation succeeded.
16:10 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0639314 = 0.1918 BTC [+] {3}
16:11 peterl .bait
16:11 ozbot http://25.media.tumblr.com/852d012f6af549de7e0f12f261d96b2d/tumblr_n0sd2mEtGE1rz1q6ko1_1280.jpg
16:12 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.631 = 1.262 BTC [-] {2}
16:13 ninjashogun hi
16:13 ninjashogun hi, mircea_popescu
16:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07589957 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}
16:14 decimation yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable
16:15 decimation the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing
16:16 mircea_popescu you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital.
16:16 mircea_popescu analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem
16:18 ninjashogun the main reason is that when it takes a minute or to do something, you take more time with it. Same if thre's a physical good. It's why moleskine notebooks contain better diagrams and sketches than legal pads do.
16:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00571404 = 2.857 BTC [-] {10}
16:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1028 @ 0.00094618 = 0.9727 BTC [+]
16:22 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.06148784 = 2.4595 BTC [+] {12}
16:22 mircea_popescu benkay incidentally, this approach also illustrates what exactly the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged.
16:22 mircea_popescu "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity.
16:23 mircea_popescu they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite to both.
16:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06449997 = 0.258 BTC [+] {4}
16:28 ThickAsThieves mp, youve got pm
16:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.00453907 = 0.1135 BTC [+] {3}
16:31 decimation the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons?
16:32 asciilifeform always neglected is the question of wtf means 'earned.' i.e. the fellow who faithfully sits through traffic and warms a chair for 8hr/day moving paper from one pile to another, in the popular imagination, 'earns' something.
16:35 ninjashogun hi, asciilifeform
16:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10826 @ 0.00094747 = 10.2573 BTC [+]
16:37 asciilifeform hi ninjashogun
16:39 ninjashogun I thought about some of the architectural things you point out re cardano. As a practical question, how do we determine the limits of risk compensation arguments?
16:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07416684 = 0.445 BTC [-] {3}
16:39 asciilifeform ninjashogun: care to explain?
16:39 ninjashogun For example, it is doubtless true that people who use condoms will have sex in some situations (with unknown partners they're not really sure of) that they wouldn't otherwise.
16:39 ninjashogun But I don't think the Risk Compensation argument is effective against condom use.
16:40 ninjashogun (I mean, for example, in theory you can do a deep check on all of your partners and KNOW they have no STD's and also don't sleep with anyone else othre than you. Condom use lets you have some protection in cases where this isn't done.)
16:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60251201 BTC [-]
16:41 ninjashogun by deep check I mean you can get to know them deeply, even run medical tests, as well as trust their behavior on a deep level, as you do with your brothers and sisters for example.
16:41 asciilifeform ninjashogun: steve jobs was famously asked, some time in '07, why he won't sell a 'netbook'
16:41 CheckDavid My fellow brothers and sisters praiser the lord
16:42 asciilifeform and answered something like, 'if you mean a $300 small laptop, we don't know how to make one that isn't a piece of shit.'
16:42 ninjashogun yes, I know this :)
16:42 ninjashogun right
16:42 decimation ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect?
16:42 ninjashogun he said that the only thing is that it's a bad, cheap laptoop
16:43 ninjashogun decimation, so this relates to an architectural discussion I had with asciilifeform on it. Specifically, a very GOOD reason not to include ANY second factor, not even the most trivial one (such as not writing your name and bitcoin address on the Cardano) is because any second factor will INCREASE the risky behavior in its users.
16:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-]
16:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-] {2}
16:43 asciilifeform that is approximately what i said, yes.
16:44 ninjashogun See: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369847812000587
16:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06200008 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}
16:44 ninjashogun asciilifeform, could you continue on your $300 netbook example?
16:44 asciilifeform it is absolutely crucial that a cardano owner fully understand the gravity of his situation
16:44 asciilifeform in the event of loss
16:45 decimation there's no method to gaurantee the integrity of any device that could have been in the enemy's hands
16:46 asciilifeform decimation: correct. i'm glad somebody gets this
16:46 ninjashogun I also agree.
16:46 ninjashogun Integrity is, obviously, right out the window.
16:46 decimation well, then how does checking for std's map to this?
16:46 ninjashogun decimation, the example is actually not about integrity. :)
16:47 ninjashogun decimation, i.e. if it has been in adversary's hands, the result is obviously 0% integrity. What else is the result? I identified a couple of results to asciilifeform (including threat verctor back to PC should it be replaced without the Owner's knowledge)
16:48 asciilifeform let's say that you own a pistol. it gets stolen and replaced without your knowledge for one that: shoots backwards.
16:48 mircea_popescu std's are a very narrowly restricted set of problems
16:48 ninjashogun Both map to STD's. Both reducing the threat vector back to the PC, and reducing the immediate loss without any effort on the part of the enemy, will increase risky behavior.
16:48 asciilifeform before you laugh, the americans actually did this to the vietnamese on a few occasions
16:48 ninjashogun asciilifeform, yes.
16:48 asciilifeform ;;google project eldest son
16:48 gribble Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Eldest_Son>; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles |: <http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/11/15/project-eldest-son-the-secret-u-s-scheme-to-sabotage-charlies-ammo/>; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam | Field ...: (1 more message)
16:49 decimation seems like a sound plan
16:49 ninjashogun asciilifeform - let's change the approach slightly. Suppose that the "risk compensation effect" were 500x, and the SLIGHTEST reduction in risk will be compensated 500x by risky behavior.
16:49 decimation nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem
16:50 mircea_popescu yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are their problem
16:50 ninjashogun asciilifeform, in this hypothesis, clearly it would make the Cardano MUCH safer to physically print the private key on it (ascii-padded) on a piece of paper that is folded a single time and taped to the Cardano. If users MUST do this or there is no way to do this, they will treat the Cardano much more safely.
16:51 ninjashogun "or there is no way not to do this"*
16:51 asciilifeform 'steering wheel spike' is a thought experiment, not a business plan.
16:51 ninjashogun So that is true of a 500x risk compensation psychology. In this case, every Cardano should have a private key easily legibly printed on it for anyone tosee.
16:51 ninjashogun asciilifeform, yes :)
16:51 benkay how does this printed key work with the "fry" switch?
16:52 ninjashogun asciilifeform, so, how do we determine the difference between Steering Wheel Spike - print the private key on the Cardano for anyone to see - and genuinely sound decisions added for gravity?
16:52 benkay or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun?
16:52 asciilifeform benkay: it wouldn't, clearly. this is lunacy.
16:52 benkay i'm trying to drag the lunacy out into the open, asciilifeform.
16:52 ninjashogun benkay, yes it's just a thought experiment. Clearly to SOME extent people would treat their cardano's slightly more securely physically if the printed key were on it.
16:52 benkay (kicking and screaming though it may)
16:53 ninjashogun benkay, but you see it would be wrong to do so. That is too much added insecurity.
16:53 ninjashogun even though it would cause people to treat their Cardano's in a slightly more coveted manner.
16:53 benkay if the users of the cardano need the key printed on the outside to incentivize them to treat it carefully, those are the wrong customers for NSA.
16:53 benkay again with this "mass market, make it stupid" SV bullshit.
16:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00094635 = 19.4948 BTC [-]
16:54 ninjashogun benkay, not so. This is asciilifeform's current argument for refusing to add any fallout mitigation for stolen Cardano's (including use of a passphrase that gets discarded after a while and memory cycled.).
16:54 asciilifeform in my earlier conversation with ninjashogun, i tried to explain the concept of only solving technical problems that can be solved -well-.
16:54 benkay don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?!
16:54 ninjashogun So under the current Cardano architecture, there is 0 mitigation for even accidental loss, or theft. There is no pass phrase that is possible without rewriting the firmware yourself.
16:55 benkay incorrect.
16:55 ninjashogun Oh, this is what I understood from asciilifeform
16:55 benkay sign the cardano key with your master key, and revoke it when you lose it.
16:55 benkay *wave hands*
16:55 asciilifeform benkay is correct.
16:55 decimation tamper evident seals?
16:55 benkay there's more to it than that, but that's the high-level approach.
16:55 ninjashogun benkay, fair enough :). However if you are not aware that it has been out of your possession for a few minutes or hours this does not help.
16:55 asciilifeform decimation: owner is free to apply his own seals.
16:56 ninjashogun I personally don't like tamper evident seals at all.
16:56 ninjashogun I don't think it's possible to make a true tamper evident device.
16:56 benkay ninjashogun: that's the whole point of "you guarantee physical security, cardano guarantees electrical security."
16:56 benkay if you can't guarantee physical security, the device is useless.
16:56 ninjashogun benkay, I understand this.
16:56 asciilifeform the only seal that is worth anything at all is a custom, preferably invisible one (e.g. perfume, specks of dust) applied by the owner.
16:56 asciilifeform as discussed in mp's essay
16:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094607 = 11.684 BTC [-] {2}
16:57 asciilifeform likewise, if i applied some magical seal (assume one exists) the buyer is unable to dissect his unit without losing it
16:57 asciilifeform so the effort would be wasted.
16:57 decimation 'professional' crypto products have a zeroize key http://www.gdc4s.com/Documents/Products/Secure%20Voice%20and%20Data/Network%20Encryption/GD-TACLANE-Micro-w.pdf
16:57 asciilifeform zeroize key is as old as time.
16:57 asciilifeform 19th c. codebooks came with anchors.
16:57 asciilifeform (drop overboard)
16:57 benkay lol anchors
16:58 benkay !t m s.nsa
16:58 assbot [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000145 / 0.00015512 / 0.000156 (1000 shares, 0.16 BTC), 7D: 0.0001 / 0.00010918 / 0.000156 (6000 shares, 0.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.0001236 / 0.00021 (79650 shares, 9.85 BTC)
16:59 mircea_popescu they did
17:00 ninjashogun asciilifeform, let me ask you this. Will any Cardano ever be lost or stolen?
17:00 asciilifeform certainly
17:00 asciilifeform just as diamonds, pistols, nukes, are lost and stolen
17:00 ninjashogun asciilifeform, it is a good question because in the case of the Soviety Submarines, it is possible that none will ever melt down due to user error, ever.
17:01 ninjashogun asciilifeform, in which case any change to that (by making it "safer") would in fact result in worse effects.
17:01 ninjashogun soviet*
17:02 ninjashogun (asciilifeform had an example of how soviet submarines did not self-regulate their nuclear reactors but always had a person in the loop, who therefore understood the gravity of his situatoin.)
17:03 asciilifeform obligatory:
17:03 asciilifeform http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered
17:03 ozbot Shall be Delivered | The Whet
17:03 ninjashogun So, if we know, for sure, that in some cases Cardanos will be lost or stolen - is it possible that an architectural change MAY make the Cardano more secure oerall by reducing the immediate fallout from these cases?
17:04 decimation can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution.
17:04 asciilifeform ninjashogun: i am sad to say that you appear to have learned nothing from our conversation.
17:06 benkay asciilifeform: do you think this is a case for Hanlon?
17:06 ninjashogun asciilifeform, I did learn from it, yes. Clearly Risk Compensation is not a law :) :) It is possible to mitigate fallout in some ways without automatically getting an exact compensation.
17:08 decimation it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features
17:08 ninjashogun asciilifeform, for example if you introduced an architectural change that, as a direct result, meant half of thefts did not result in key becoming accessible to thief - would there be instantly twice as many thefts as a result?
17:08 ninjashogun asciilifeform, if only one tenth of thefts actually resulted in the key becoming known to the thief - would there be exactly ten times as many thefts as a result?
17:08 Apocalyptic dafuq am I reading
17:09 benkay Apocalyptic: madness.
17:09 decimation he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather
17:09 ninjashogun Apocalyptic, I am trying to understand the architectural trade-offs in the Cardano, and, specifically, why the private key MUST be stored in the plain with no mitigation against loss. (Except key revocation, if the user is aware of it). Why it has to be "fail-dangerous" and not "fail-90% dangeorus"
17:10 asciilifeform decimation: that's the most charitable explanation.
17:10 mircea_popescu tibby is back !?
17:10 mircea_popescu o the shogun guy. ya well...
17:10 benkay ninjashogun: how would you make the key less accesible to an attacker?
17:10 ninjashogun For what it's worth, I'm not a troll and do have some experience with product design trade-offs.
17:10 benkay mircea_popescu: tib's my thesis here.
17:11 benkay ninjashogun: all trolls say "I'm not a troll".
17:11 Apocalyptic ninjashogun, I hope i don't use any products resulting of your experience
17:11 ninjashogun benkay, that's not true. Some trolls are happy to troll and tell you they're trolling.
17:11 ninjashogun benkay - through the methods other people have alreayd suggested (or something similar) to asciilifeform.
17:11 ninjashogun benkay, a variation on one of the known methods.
17:11 benkay sorry - inaccessible.
17:11 benkay less accessible is not acceptable.
17:12 benkay (for reasons you fail apparently to grasp)
17:12 ninjashogun benkay, I do grasp it.
17:12 ninjashogun benkay, and I understand the Risk Compensation argument deeply and with nuance.
17:12 benkay seems as though you're the only one.
17:12 benkay i think there's a good reason society's locked you up in a 100/mo shithole, sir.
17:13 diametric oh he's back
17:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0619926 = 0.124 BTC [+] {2}
17:13 benkay you're incapable of even convincing the government to pay your welfare.
17:13 asciilifeform in safety engineering, there is a concept where precautions that annoy people and get in the way of work tend to make construction workers, oil prospectors, etc. worse off
17:13 asciilifeform than nothing at all
17:13 asciilifeform household example would be a smoke alarm that goes off every time you overcook a potato
17:14 asciilifeform it tends to end up unplugged and in a parts bin
17:14 ninjashogun benkay - Yes, you have just written a good example of trolling.
17:14 Mats_cd03 oh snap
17:15 Mats_cd03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FekvruRUi24
17:15 ozbot Keyboard fight - YouTube
17:15 decimation ninjashgun has your startup managed to acquire financing?
17:15 mircea_popescu http://25.media.tumblr.com/06e3229410ffb29f7afcd5039ace6c68/tumblr_mp5ahyJaww1rsltkro1_1280.jpg
17:15 mircea_popescu in other news
17:16 Mats_cd03 whenever i see tumblr my brain tells me "boobies"
17:16 Mats_cd03 ive been trained by mp to react to tumblr
17:16 asciilifeform i, personally, have nothing against paupers who live in $100, or even $10 ditches, and cannot finance anything
17:16 mircea_popescu lol
17:16 mircea_popescu titsbler
17:16 asciilifeform but then come the 'ideas'
17:17 ninjashogun decimation, as I mentioned before we are at the pre-financing stage - the startup is not raising money right now. I know a lot of stories of people who built great things with burn rates near $0. Airbnb is now closing a round at $10B. They sold cereal to launch.
17:17 Mats_cd03 your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive
17:18 Mats_cd03 oops forgot an /s
17:18 ninjashogun Mats_cd03, I worked for a startup that was acquired, as one of just two employees. Yes, I know how typical funded startups operate.
17:19 Mats_cd03 thats cool, what was the service or good being sold
17:19 ninjashogun Mats_cd03, it was called "don't feed the trolls" and we sold custom consulting services that consisted of "Don't feed the trolls". Hope this answers your question.
17:19 Mats_cd03 im actually not trolling
17:20 Mats_cd03 but consulting firms are cool, i guess...
17:20 ninjashogun Mats_cd03, I humbly disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
17:20 benkay kakobrekla save us
17:20 Mats_cd03 so much for innovation
17:21 ninjashogun Mats_cd03, honestly I clearly have given this channel way too much access to what I'm doing already. There's a reason stealth mode startups operate in that way.
17:21 Mats_cd03 i think youve spent too much time drinking the silicon valley koolaid
17:22 Mats_cd03 if an idea was special nobody would be
17:22 ninjashogun Mats_cd03, very humbly, perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with them.
17:22 Mats_cd03 lol
17:23 asciilifeform ninjashogun walks into 'alcoholics anonymous' with a jug of moonshine. 'perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with this!'
17:23 Mats_cd03 i can't speak for anyone else
17:23 ninjashogun asciilifeform, have you had bad experiences with startups?
17:24 asciilifeform everyone with a net connection, including Pashtuns using steam modems with ip-over-dead-goat have, at this point, 'had bad experience with startups.'
17:24 mircea_popescu hahaha steam modems ?
17:24 benkay ip-over-dead-goat!
17:24 mircea_popescu your figures are good :D
17:25 asciilifeform i had a dream as a kid where me modem (old at&t 'paragon' fished from a skip) was a gas modem, and i forgot to turn off the gas
17:25 mircea_popescu clearly someone's mom was intent on stove discipline
17:25 asciilifeform (i know of no real life 'gas modem' but folks have proposed using gas, water, even sewer pipes for 'last mile' ip so be careful what you wish for)
17:26 decimation 'last mile' power line modems are particuarly idiotic
17:26 mircea_popescu "send emails over your farts! it's great for the environment and ok for your wallpaper"
17:26 decimation spam the shortwave spectrum for a few megabits
17:26 * asciilifeform looks for and fails to find the old article on robotic rats used to run wire through sewer pipes
17:27 mircea_popescu i wonder if real rats ever tried to mate with them
17:28 decimation sending data through an accoustically coupled gas pipe would be amusing but slow
17:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06200001 = 0.186 BTC [-] {2}
17:28 ninjashogun Here is why silicon valley is different:
17:28 ninjashogun https://www.pwcmoneytree.com/MTPublic/ns/nav.jsp?page=region
17:28 asciilifeform http://www.oobject.com/category/super-sewer-robots/
17:28 ozbot PricewaterhouseCoopers: Global: Insights & Solutions: MoneyTree™
17:28 ozbot super sewer robots
17:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.11950724 = 0.717 BTC [-]
17:29 mircea_popescu decimation and if there's a gas explosion everyone gets unfriended ?
17:29 mircea_popescu whole neighbourhood!
17:29 ninjashogun It's the difference between "How can I help you get from a $500K nominal valuation - your last round - to $10M" and "Wait, you're not taking a salary? Why don't you just go on welfare?" -- this channel above :)
17:29 dub I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university
17:30 benkay valuation ≠ value.
17:30 asciilifeform http://www.inspector-systems.com/makro_plus.html
17:30 ozbot INSPECTOR SYSTEMS - MAKRO Plus, Service robots for sewer inspection
17:30 asciilifeform etc
17:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.0009479 = 17.1342 BTC [+] {3}
17:30 ninjashogun benkay - you are reinforcing my point. valuation might not be value, but it's clear that airbnb is worth more than $200K in cash.
17:30 asciilifeform i saw a much simpler (cable-driven) version of this being used right here on my street.
17:30 ninjashogun benkay - moreover valuation literally is value, in that it literally is someone paying literally that price.
17:31 benkay you miss the point again.
17:31 asciilifeform your heart, liver, corneas have a valuation. ask the chinese. anybody paid yet/
17:31 ninjashogun benkay - I think you miss the point. Valuation literally, bydefinition, is value.
17:31 asciilifeform ?
17:31 benkay so all of GLBSE is worthwhile i guess.
17:32 dub CSS == value
17:32 benkay PMB's == value
17:32 asciilifeform ok found it:
17:32 asciilifeform http://forbiddenhillcrest.tumblr.com/post/4322296903/the-sewer-robots-of-pulaski-county
17:32 ozbot Forbidden Hillcrest, The Sewer Robots of Pulaski County
17:32 ninjashogun dub, what is css in this context?
17:32 asciilifeform this is quite like the one i saw.
17:33 decimation interesting. Such a robot could be quite useful for setting up covert data connections
17:36 Namworld http://www.oobject.com/super-sewer-robots/insight-vision-jet-propelled-camera/1871/
17:36 ozbot Insight Vision Jet Propelled Camera
17:37 Namworld Protoss Observer, sewer model
17:37 ninjashogun http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full
17:37 ozbot The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets -- Adams and Hillman 7 (2): 89 -- Injury Prevention
17:37 mircea_popescu obviously my client splits it up as pula ski
17:40 Mats_cd03 what is this "stove discipline" you speak of
17:41 Mats_cd03 is this something you can only experience in the dreaded lubyanka
17:42 mircea_popescu well, natural gas is dangerous, in that it'll level a house.
17:42 mircea_popescu pretty much the only way kids and senile old people have of causing serious trouble
17:42 asciilifeform speaking of which,
17:42 asciilifeform http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/uptown/businesses-closed-week-explosion-article-1.1729672
17:42 ozbot Merchants shut down after East Harlem gas explosion plead for help - NY Daily News
17:43 mircea_popescu sahara boutique
17:43 asciilifeform http://www.trbimg.com/img-53211025/turbine/la-apphoto-aptopix-nyc-explosion2-jpg-20140312/600
17:43 mircea_popescu sounds promising.
17:44 mircea_popescu 116th street wow. and yet it has buildings and everything ?!
17:45 asciilifeform given how it was an almost surgical demolition job of most of a block, probably a basement leak
17:45 asciilifeform but ianafi (i am not a fire inspector)...
17:46 nubbins` who is?!
17:46 mircea_popescu so the city is responsible huh ?
17:46 asciilifeform http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/16/us-usa-new-york-collapse-idUSBREA2F0IU20140316
17:46 ozbot Crews focus on gas lines in New York building explosion
17:54 mircea_popescu data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArwAAAGbBAMAAADU1V5jAAAAJFBMVEX////g4OAgICBgYGBAQEAAAACgoKDAwMCAgIDl5f/U1O3d3d00vM7SAAAURUlEQVR4nO2du3MbNx7HoQcszbjR5DF3paLHJaXOGWVSchwzcQnThG0NG41z7jWZ81zryUWX9hoWTH9FOjWs/M/d4rUvYHcB7EKiud/vaChyd38L8MMfQQD7w28JgSAIatZnR37HeR4Wpb2LhCd/UH3B50ePnp5dE35D5pTzud6+d/JNtvPsiHB+KsgeMvLPs5uDpz9lz80x08qZ9l6T8yN6rF9lx9CJeipPn72eyw2fn/yYPe48Obs2+4sjt0+X73+ZXJ4+eUn4JHv/p99+Z7Y/n16Qk9sJ
17:54 mircea_popescu mX2bPSGHU3Yw/+31++fTmya8j97s8Ov3xg9LeOXpDd6d8x/OP2TfmfmTNwXU6Wm6N/iwmtJH/8ne+vR69ka7l9IJ2Z+Qky8vMi67x5lrPmF7L3ZeXh5lW7JN81+/Jm+/mWYOff3u4vaDMpk/Ort4d51tOnj6Y3bM93RyebM7IY/k6Q3evVdkl2XIr8k5fX5ys3dyejR/ez63K7Ydup0e7b0g5MuL+eXNnJ49+0lvn/6ePfxyKlh+dpw93Wf7jMyn0iXnhH87P5j9xg9e/vx6/9WZNnl6+Pz4Umx6/112rv2v6OT9h/fXRJ2eZ+2OsBWf1ZH49MgOnV8eX353ezE7297G4fB8/gUTX+T57kS0va+yTc8yD/3r+fxo5+mbvQ8Zlw+kjndGzjNq54ezZy93zl9rk3df/M7OxKbbs+
17:54 mircea_popescu nF7OkRneweXx5lluL0s2fPJF5NUrgrPd5l/9p5P5ltcdtL6O0PynsP3ujGYY8fi39vj/e/un1yPXv2XLyq4p2TafZyuid+Ci8n2uTLt9ev3ohNl5xP+CzDe/g682z95dCNQ+a9OzfSe/9CJ/vs85PLyXyL8f6b7v5NN46X5bb3LAOxe7w3M79j+9W2N0MrvPcFOdo5ea1Nds+Pnr4Qm26Pdsjs7YROdubZl8Fue49l23si8E6zD2Gb8V6+0z2H7CdM9By+N9uznsPe/Fd+k+M9mP36+v035zcar2h7d85+frX/+kSbHM7I7bHY9NmPl9fzw1cZtOkxKfccTr/9e6XnkOH9fprh3f363t/3PWk/+xbrjumBaHtnevuh6Pc+Of3sOMdL/nF280j3ezO85O3pue456M7YwUvy7oLk
17:54 mircea_popescu PYfMO8Xrcr9XNO3lfu8+++Ls7VdzcnhmV2xL9GXK4djtdcKTfxLaS3ju3Vn3MVC09n7qPgaCoAcV5YRzlj0Swpn4g4YUI4zJR0IJzf4euj5bpka8HOotphoHF96rVaD+DDUo648+xj2tk9X8v0yCFQ4MvMOXDbxSafGyBrzLrPW4WmX/ruTBS75aXcnHVbZlKbdl/5dyT/b3pzyWr9ThysZplJ0wNzJ7dBnDv0UfJcSbtb36r9Yxy/EWKK+WV+Ixe71ccb1tqfZkf//LjhXY1OFXqzajpTHSe5Z/LBO9RR8lxNuoMt7lUpMwpFZl75V7VlfSe8t4eaPRKjfSn9DI8epvsyG1NB6dHaH3mMbhKm8cJGeX0dXK7MmeZo/i9H/wRG/RRw+Od7VcrUqOeLWstL2F9670sTlet5HZow
17:54 mircea_popescu iLPXzU3lsjtYrBu7Lwlg5E49CK98q0vV54cyOzZ8Rtr+hHiZ+2vI+11H2sK/PTlnfMlrqPdSVaZfnEZSQ7ZmJPdnqzZ1s7Zi14C7ld66r68s/GPS1GHpX00CeIt7zLOY9W33jXfnj7rsfNJh7qZ12qec+y6++OWRNjrNgVqMEqed/WQ9WcAa9TQ+FlNl6mx8IZWTk0Bt7osrkDL+VU/XHGmfgrdgVq9Hhd3ivAqj/GOfAGiz7OSTU0DoKtuJ7JKOMEeIPEOvBSxVZ4r6QLvEFinBpmrAEv4wqvbB6AN0iMduKVLS9+2qIk8PIWvFnbS0R3LKOLjlm4mPj2K1TchRfDiqSNA/D2w0sUXknZgb
17:54 mircea_popescu ouch
17:54 mircea_popescu sorry!
17:54 asciilifeform puzzle for us all?
17:55 benkay pastebin?
17:55 benkay plus context?
17:55 mircea_popescu its the ^OEX chart, 5 years, weekly
17:55 mircea_popescu it looks beyond fucking ridiculous
17:56 mircea_popescu here, i'll summarize it for you :
17:56 mircea_popescu /
17:56 Mats_cd03 it all makes sense now
17:56 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6139998 BTC [+]
17:56 Mats_cd03 not
17:57 benkay nice steady rate of inflation in the usd?
17:57 mircea_popescu Mats_cd03 the ^OEX, ie standard and poor 100, is the index of us stocks. which supposedly have been moving like it's animated by the gosplan
17:58 Mats_cd03 i see
17:58 mircea_popescu benkay from 500 to 800 in 2 years ?
17:58 mircea_popescu it was 500ish in 2002.
17:58 mircea_popescu it was 500ish in 2007
17:58 mircea_popescu it was 500ish in 2012
17:58 mircea_popescu but since...
17:59 mircea_popescu 25+% a year, twice madoff's presumed return.
18:00 benkay talking about this?
18:00 benkay http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EOEX+Interactive#symbol=%5EOEX;range=max
18:00 ozbot S&P 100 INDEX Index Chart - Yahoo Finance
18:00 Namworld Damn, I decoded what was pasted and i got a large image with just a few pixel high line of actual picture.
18:01 mircea_popescu benkay http://bit.ly/1gd6BQW
18:01 mircea_popescu sorry for shortner
18:01 mircea_popescu the image comes straighyt from there, who knew these guys use mpex tech o.O
18:02 mircea_popescu i thought i was the only cool one.
18:03 mircea_popescu anyway, simply put anything past 1994 is bs.
18:04 mircea_popescu (the 25 year graph makes it quite plain)
18:07 ninjashogun mircea_popescu, madoff chose a return that was set not to be "too good to be true" while working more on giving the appearance of very low baked-in risk. He did not give out returns that made anyone wealthy - he was just very consistent about it.
18:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.00012401 = 0.2108 BTC [-]
18:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 34 @ 0.0730414 = 2.4834 BTC [-] {4}
18:14 benkay 2001-2003
18:14 benkay good times
18:15 benkay i start to understand the furor over QE ca 2007
18:15 mircea_popescu should have let the bullshit deflate then
18:16 benkay "but we're already printing money every week! what else are we to do?"
18:16 benkay "i have a pwan! pwint MOAR!"
18:17 mircea_popescu anywya, if anyone wants to sell me ^OEX puts...
18:17 benkay what timeframe? just out of curiousity.
18:17 mircea_popescu five years, say.
18:19 benkay i've been looking for fb puts on the same scale.
18:19 mircea_popescu i'd take two years there
18:19 * mircea_popescu wistfully recalls his rimm puts. o glory.
18:22 mircea_popescu i can't sell enough us, as far as i'm concerned.
18:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00094859 = 7.2093 BTC [+] {2}
18:22 mircea_popescu speaking of which, the berkshire bitbet is something else
18:22 benkay http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/fb/option-chain?callput=put&dateindex=6
18:22 ozbot Facebook, Inc. (FB) Option Chain - Stock Puts & Calls - NASDAQ.com
18:23 mircea_popescu 98 no bets for a 34.98 btc pool. 14 yes bets for a 1007.6 pool
18:23 mircea_popescu that's 0.35 avg vs 71.95 avg
18:23 mircea_popescu only 200x
18:23 benkay but buffet, mannnnnn
18:23 mircea_popescu even if we exclude my bet, it's still .54
18:24 benkay smart money is big money.
18:24 mircea_popescu and vice versa.
18:24 mircea_popescu i'll end up making 3% over a year and people will be o noes, such low return
18:26 benkay srs? in btc?
18:26 benkay i was under the impression that 2% was an outrageous return in btc.
18:27 mircea_popescu you don't read the forum much i take it.
18:27 benkay i should fix that.
18:27 mircea_popescu maybe not
18:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00094949 = 13.0555 BTC [+]
18:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15358 @ 0.00094855 = 14.5678 BTC [-]
18:48 taub what exchange is lake
19:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 36 @ 0.0055591 = 0.2001 BTC [+]
19:04 hdbuck shit im being prosecuted. any lawyers? ^^ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494617.100
19:05 mircea_popescu you're being prosecuted for karpeles being jewish ?
19:06 hdbuck i really cant tell so far
19:06 hdbuck maybee
19:06 hdbuck ?!
19:07 mircea_popescu this crap is in service discussion ?!
19:09 hdbuck lol yeah, i just digged up MK essays and got caught between fires
19:10 hdbuck mk's bullish essays : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494617.msg5682343#msg5682343
19:10 mircea_popescu what or who is mk
19:11 hdbuck Mark Karpeles
19:11 hdbuck the scammer
19:12 mircea_popescu a a
19:15 kakobrekla yeah, i better stop using initials for my email signature
19:16 mircea_popescu sucks huh.
19:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11522 @ 0.00094589 = 10.8985 BTC [-]
19:16 kakobrekla yeah well you are not too far from it
19:17 kakobrekla mp, mk, the keys are right next to each other
19:17 mircea_popescu im not too worried about it
19:18 kakobrekla i know.
19:19 mircea_popescu "The sooner this community gets rid of these stains/schemes currently tainting the innovative and revolutionary world of bitcoin which they are piggybacking, the sooner we will make progress."
19:19 mircea_popescu this preceded by "Your detachment from reality..."
19:27 cazalla clearly karpeles is JIDF
19:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6230002 BTC [+]
19:29 mircea_popescu are these the idiots who whine at facebook about whether x y z is a country ?
19:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.00608565 = 0.353 BTC [+] {5}
19:29 jborkl What is JIDF?
19:30 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00619576 = 0.2602 BTC [+] {3}
19:30 cazalla Jewish Internet Defense Force
19:33 mircea_popescu http://www.checkfundmanager.com/wall_of_shame.html
19:33 ozbot Check Fund Manager Wall of Shame
19:34 cazalla I would probably get along great with radan lol
19:35 hdbuck what?! they havent had add Karpeles to that list yet? ^^
19:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00094323 = 2.2638 BTC [-]
19:36 mircea_popescu <mircea_popescu> wait what ?
19:36 mircea_popescu <mpoe-pr> you're aware that there's this bitcoin forum that i work on every day. and on this forum, there are sub-forums. and one of these is off-topic.
19:36 mircea_popescu <mircea_popescu> ya
19:36 mircea_popescu <mpoe-pr> there's a thread there for movie recommendations. forum people. recommending movies to each other. can you imagine the horror? cause it's worse than you imagine.
19:36 mircea_popescu poor girl.
19:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61519 BTC [-]
19:40 hdbuck mircea_popescu, could you please enlighten me regarding what is actually going to happen in bitcoinland? i mean, all that junk going on with the BTCFoundation, the heists, the banks, the whole damn world? what to expect if not some shitstorm lies and persecutions?
19:40 mircea_popescu well who knows the future eh ?
19:41 hdbuck i figured you had a pretty good idea tho cuz i'm clueless :)
19:41 mircea_popescu who knows, maybe the sec finally decides to stop dicking around and we get some scams actually blown open properly,
19:41 mircea_popescu rather than this current "pick bugs off the floor put them, in the bucket whence they run back out" thing we've been doing for the past three years
19:42 mircea_popescu it's starting to drive the girl nuts, for one.
19:42 mircea_popescu my cock really doesn't taste as bad as people tell themselves.
19:42 hdbuck i saw your first post on the btcforum was: "I'm pretty convinced we will see 1mn$ / BTC at some future point" havent changed your mind so far? ^^
19:43 mircea_popescu nope.
19:43 mircea_popescu what post is this ?
19:43 hdbuck https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=37923;sa=showPosts
19:43 ozbot Latest posts of: Mircea Popescu
19:43 hdbuck first one
19:43 mircea_popescu o.O
19:43 hdbuck nice introduction ^^
19:44 mircea_popescu i dunno, must be some meanwhile forgotten joke ?
19:45 mircea_popescu that aside, bitcoin will outlive the dollar, in which sense any arbitrary price point will be reached eventually.
19:45 hdbuck a joke taht had kept you busy for the last couple of years
19:46 hdbuck anyho, still reading logs. im not going to bother any longer. keeping up the faith :)
19:46 mircea_popescu http://25.media.tumblr.com/e7d146810d1469d34acdd03e710ac892/tumblr_mnxx63r5tp1rymyzgo1_1280.jpg
19:46 mircea_popescu have a tit.
19:47 diametric lots of new people stopping by lately i see
19:50 cazalla I'm fairly new and my being here, I would expect more soon diametric
19:50 mircea_popescu curious which is the first hip hop artist to make it here.
19:51 mircea_popescu they all pretend like they're businessmen, it's the hip thing to claim
19:51 cazalla given it takes a year to go through the /r/bitcoin and bitcointalk wringer, i am thinking most end up here after some time and not straight off thet bat
19:51 mircea_popescu i sure hope so.
19:51 diametric cazalla: why is that?
19:52 cazalla diametric: learning curve i would think
19:53 diametric there is a surprisingly amount of people that really dislike mircea_popescu. I've encountered a few that proclaim he's a scammer, but when questioned on what scam specifically they fail to give details.
19:53 diametric and by association they've linked this channel to scammers
19:53 cazalla I'm your average person, can't keep up with some of the conversation here, need to go and google words for definitions and so forth but I'm here (got started in Bitcoin nov 2012) so I would expect others who are average to start turning up as I have
19:53 mircea_popescu the convenient explanation being that they're exposed scammers/shills with a bone for pr.
19:54 CheckDavid cazalla: normal people have to Google
19:54 mircea_popescu the more likely explanation is probably that they're not actually as smart as they see themsekves.
19:54 CheckDavid But it you actually Google
19:54 CheckDavid You are away being them :)
19:55 CheckDavid *way beyond
19:55 cazalla diametric: I think the dislike might come from feeling inferior due to the conversations here
19:55 cazalla If you put ones ego aside for a moment, there is a lot you can learn, at least that has been my experience to date
19:55 diametric possibly, it also reminds me of when someone wins at something, people immediately assume they cheated somehow because they themselves didn't win.
19:56 mircea_popescu crab pot phenomena
19:56 CheckDavid mircea_popescu sucks
19:56 CheckDavid But I love him
19:56 CheckDavid He is wise
19:57 mircea_popescu omg i don't suck how can you say that!1
19:58 * CheckDavid hides
19:58 mircea_popescu lol
19:58 hdbuck im really trying to grasp what happened with the massive PUT orders in early feb. MP's feb report mentioned his ability to stand for the sake of bitcoin, and being well connected, etc... But who was on the other side? Why such orders in bulk at this given period? :/
19:59 diametric asciilifeform: found a device with a ridiculous ppi
19:59 asciilifeform diametric: ?
19:59 asciilifeform (gonna guess: a head-mounted lcd)
19:59 diametric asciilifeform: http://www.phonearena.com/phones/OPPO-Find-7_id8351
20:00 diametric asciilifeform: 5.5in screen at 1440x2560.
20:00 mircea_popescu hdbuck well don't forget to publish if you figure out anything.
20:00 asciilifeform now we need 24 in of that.
20:00 mircea_popescu diametric that has got to be a scam.
20:00 mircea_popescu 500dpi srsly ?
20:01 diametric mircea_popescu: oppo's made several phones already
20:01 asciilifeform this is only 2x the density of the 'nexus 10' widget i read djvus with.
20:01 mircea_popescu what tech is that ?
20:01 diametric mircea_popescu: oppo has the only phone on the market currently running cyanogen that's been certified by google as well
20:02 mircea_popescu heh and the chinese take the lead.
20:02 mircea_popescu so how are they made, just packed tighter ?
20:03 mircea_popescu all i see is a n1 at 2k/1k
20:03 asciilifeform transistors have packed to far greater densities, far earlier
20:03 asciilifeform the 'hard part' of this kind of display is - driving it
20:03 mircea_popescu and that's a ~7inch tablety thing
20:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform many problems, really.
20:05 asciilifeform kopin corp. had microdisplays with ~1600x1200 in fingernail sized element, for ages
↖
20:05 asciilifeform just not at 'human' prices.
20:05 mircea_popescu well sure
20:06 asciilifeform (ok not quite. but close - http://www.kopin.com/offerings/products/ruggedized-display-products#sxga-lbc)
20:06 asciilifeform there were, if i recall, others.
20:06 asciilifeform (i once took a great interest in the subject of head-mounted displays)
20:13 diametric asciilifeform: do you still actively play go?
20:13 asciilifeform as a matter of fact i do.
20:13 diametric asciilifeform: http://shop.gogameguru.com/
20:13 diametric they just started accepting bitcoin
20:13 asciilifeform haha neat
20:14 diametric with a 15% discount this weekend apparently.
20:16 kakobrekla i havent played in years :\
20:16 mircea_popescu great game to play with teh girlz.
20:19 assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1168 @ 0.00083535 = 0.9757 BTC [-] {7}
20:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 200 @ 0.00546 = 1.092 BTC [-]
20:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 919 @ 0.00047516 = 0.4367 BTC [-] {4}
20:23 asciilifeform http://shop.gogameguru.com/kaya-go-board-86/
20:27 diametric asciilifeform: http://www.reddit.com/user/CompileBot
20:28 diametric asciilifeform: so if you post on reddit with +/u/CompileBot language \n\n [ code ], it will run that code and post it as a reply.
20:28 decimation everyone knows that such blocks of wood are trival to obtain - simply punch a tree ala minecraft
20:28 asciilifeform lol
20:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00319977 = 0.16 BTC [+] {3}
20:29 asciilifeform i actually know someone who owns a board like that.
20:29 asciilifeform my brother. he didn't pay 100k though
20:29 asciilifeform more like 1k. i think it was old (100+ yrs.) and refinished at least once, after ww2 if i recall.
20:30 decimation well, presumably one could make it out of oak or pine for much less $$
20:30 asciilifeform yes. there's some of those in the linked shop
20:30 decimation the trick is drying and finishing
20:30 asciilifeform it's surprisingly hard to find a breed of wood that comes in the requisite monolithic piece and never - ever - warps.
20:31 decimation there is much art to drying wood without warping
20:31 asciilifeform (the stones, traditionally, are glass and very slippery. so surface gotta be level.)
20:31 asciilifeform (nitpick - traditional stones aren't glass - seashell and slate.)
20:32 asciilifeform all i personally have is a very thoroughly weathered (from abuse as a student) magnetic board.
20:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00094552 = 13.5209 BTC [+] {2}
20:34 mircea_popescu actually all the good boards i've seen are stone
20:35 mircea_popescu black/white marble on rosy granite works especially well
20:35 asciilifeform i imagine it would. in japan they like the 'click' of the wood though.
20:36 mircea_popescu yeah well, what do they know.
20:37 asciilifeform 1 of these days i too will purchase an enormous stone plinth. always wanted one, holography table
20:37 decimation for an optics bench?
20:37 asciilifeform right
20:38 decimation how to design an observatory: http://www.dfmengineering.com/news_observatory_design.html
20:39 decimation one probably need not be that hardcore for an optics bench
20:39 decimation but it would be helpful
20:39 asciilifeform holography specifically
20:39 asciilifeform needs a heavy table
20:39 asciilifeform long exposure times, little tolerance for vibration.
20:40 decimation dump a concrete block in the ground, build a building around it, isolated with air gap
20:40 asciilifeform that's actually pretty close to the traditional recipe:
20:40 asciilifeform stack of old tires, pour 'quickcrete'.
20:41 asciilifeform takes up a good bit of space though.
20:41 asciilifeform (and i'd probably fall through my floor...)
20:43 decimation yeah you probably want to build it in a basement
20:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.0031 = 0.1054 BTC [-] {2}
20:44 asciilifeform yeah that's where it ought to go. at any rate, probably not happening in a 30m^2 flat.
20:45 asciilifeform my mind always boggles when i visit somebody's gigantic house and there's no heavy, oily strange in the basement
20:45 asciilifeform all that space, wasted
20:45 decimation even worse; finished with mold-gathering carpet
20:45 ninjashogun pretty interesting link - http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/09/the-mark-cuban-stimulus-plan-open-source-funding/ --- but the interesting part is the comments! scroll down.
20:55 mircea_popescu my mind boggles when i visit someone and they have shit like a pool table in the basement
20:56 mircea_popescu "o ya, you're really living it large dude. the whole point of a pool table is to keep it in a cellar."
20:56 dub its to get away from the woman
20:56 Diablo-D3 but I thought the point of a pool table was to throw a woman on it and fuck her
20:57 dub no, tried getting jizz out of felt before?
20:57 mircea_popescu you two are speaking of different women.
20:57 mircea_popescu dub forget that part, that's easy. ever tried to talk to the beast after she's been rubbed raw on marble for half hour ?
20:58 dub can only imagine, I find carpet bad enough
20:59 decimation <<mircea_popescu: "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity. >> moldbug's solution: formalism http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ca/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html
21:00 decimation The goal of formalism is to avoid this unpleasant little detour. Formalism says: let's figure out exactly who has what, now, and give them a little fancy certificate. Let's not get into who should have what. Because, like it or not, this is simply a recipe for more violence. It is very hard to come up with a rule that explains why the Palestinians should get Haifa back, and doesn't explain why the Welsh should get London back
21:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
21:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00094323 = 11.4131 BTC [-] {2}
21:06 dub asciilifeform: noob question im having trouble getting a straight answer, have 20a dc supply that I want to drive (carefully) off 10a of AC mains, bad idea?
21:07 asciilifeform 20a of what?
21:07 decimation what voltage is your DC supply?
21:07 dub 12v (13.something)
21:07 decimation should be fine, don't put too much other stuff on the AC circuit
21:07 dub ac is 230 if it matters
21:07 decimation oh
21:08 decimation that should be like 1 amp of ac
21:08 decimation why do you need 10?
21:08 dub I only have 10 of AC, a small generator
21:09 decimation if it's putting out 10 amps at 230 volts you are fine
21:09 kakobrekla 2300w vs 240w
21:09 kakobrekla +-
21:09 decimation is it a linear supply or switching supply?
21:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00094821 = 19.4383 BTC [+] {4}
21:10 mircea_popescu diametric "here's how i try to inject myself in stuff that has nothing to do with me over 5k words. call me michael moore"
21:11 decimation if it is a switching supply and your generator puts out crap AC, you might ruin the dc supply
21:11 mircea_popescu in any event, violence is not a "problem". it's required, like breathing.
21:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: was it you who had a piece about 'temperature' ?
21:12 asciilifeform (as in simulated annealing)
21:12 mircea_popescu perhaps not ?
21:12 asciilifeform but re: society and 'hormesis' of theft
21:13 asciilifeform ;;ud hormesis
21:13 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hormesis | trending. white dragon breath · surfboard · thot · tittybong · neknominate · lumpatious · poopsterbate · fap · bae · thought blocked. categories. gaming · sports ...
21:13 ozbot Urban Dictionary: hormesis
21:13 asciilifeform bah
21:13 decimation as in a little radiation is good for you?
21:13 mircea_popescu well this is all too vague to pinpoint.
21:13 mircea_popescu decimation no, as in a little fucking and public speaking is required for adults.
21:14 mircea_popescu even if you don't make either your life calling.
21:14 asciilifeform yeah in this particular case, this.
21:15 asciilifeform a common criticism of mr moldy (whose every published word, to my shame, i read) is that his entire philosophy seems to reduce to 'the crown exists to guard my suburban house against evil ape men'
21:15 asciilifeform to be fair, 'truth in advertising' - 'mencius'
21:15 decimation which would be awesome for him, but it's not going to happen
21:16 mircea_popescu i dunno why this fear of other people seriously.
21:16 mircea_popescu there's this generation of nuts that fears its own shadow. cops ? hoprrible. the sec ? omaigawd. black kids ? HALP HALP
21:16 mircea_popescu i wonder how they manage to brush teeth.
21:16 asciilifeform in their guarded enclaves?
21:16 mircea_popescu what if the tootbrush gives them an evil look one day ?
21:17 mircea_popescu i mean, even in the middle of an armed rebellion/invasion your chances to be plugged are what, 1% ?
21:17 decimation it does seem that paranoia is the mood of our age
21:18 mircea_popescu syria casualties are 100k over 22mn.
21:18 mircea_popescu that fails to be a 1%
21:18 mircea_popescu meanwhile they play dice for a 2% house edge. that's okay.
21:18 asciilifeform this is a psychiatric, not political, phenomenon.
21:18 mircea_popescu planes are dangerous, see ? cars are fine.
21:19 mircea_popescu they should put wheels on the fucking airplane seats.
21:19 mircea_popescu kids would love them
21:19 decimation somehow the risk aversion circuit has gone haywire?
21:19 mircea_popescu decimation guess why ?
21:19 mircea_popescu kid regularly beaten is not affraid of the world.
21:19 mircea_popescu kid that's never been beaten ? nuts.
21:19 asciilifeform ;;google axenic mouse
21:19 gribble Axenic mice model.: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18370163>; Axenic service - Infrafrontier: <https://www.infrafrontier.eu/resources-and-services/axenic-service>; EMMA axenic (germ-free) service - Infrafrontier: <https://www.infrafrontier.eu/resources-and-services/axenic-service/emma-axenic-germ-free-service>
21:19 mircea_popescu the romans had the following problem to sexual fixations in pubers : exposure.
21:20 mircea_popescu apparently you can't get a fetish going if you get to see the actual object, in all its nude glory.
21:20 mircea_popescu experience, direct experience, remains the best cure for mental dysfunction.
21:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform pretty much
21:21 decimation the parents I know who pratice physical punishment have the most well-adjusted children
21:21 mircea_popescu it doesn't even have to be all that present, but human beings need experiences, and a balanced diet thereof.
21:22 mircea_popescu if you've never been punched in the face your reptillian brain builds this thing into an endless colossus. if you have, whatever. maybe you lose a tooth, your lip gets swollen. so what of it ?
21:23 mircea_popescu this works across the board, currently the biggest deterrent to nuclear detonation isn't a bunch of fucktarded chicks that drink tea and blather like sheep. it's simply the desire on all parties that invested billions in these things to avoid proving to the general public that... big fucking deal.
21:23 mircea_popescu as long as nobody uses them it's "those incredibly, exceedingly, unrepresentably powerful weapons". after a dozen or so pop it's like... those very expensive, inaccurate things.
21:23 decimation indeed, nuclear bombs aren't nearly as dangerous as people like to believe
21:24 mircea_popescu and as the countries spending billions on them like the people to continue to believe.
21:24 decimation https://www.fourmilab.ch/bombcalc/
21:24 ozbot Nuclear Bomb Effects Computer
21:24 joecool decimation: but napalm is cheap
21:25 mircea_popescu joecool napalm is mostly oil. thats cheap now ?
21:25 decimation carpet bombing with napalm would probably be far worse for the average citizen than a nuke going off
21:25 joecool mircea_popescu: compared to nuclear weapons? sure
21:25 mircea_popescu joecool that can't be right, mostly because nuclear power is economical as compared to burning oil.
21:26 mircea_popescu the problem is surface, for both of you.
21:26 asciilifeform the fuel in a 'fire job' (as curtis lemay called it) is the kindling you blast the buildings into during the prelude
21:27 asciilifeform not the napalm per se
21:27 mircea_popescu it's all described in this ancient trilema article http://trilema.com/2011/radiatia-si-corpul-omenesc/
21:27 mircea_popescu but fundamentally : every mile you walk adds more than a square mile to the area you've covered.
21:28 mircea_popescu like the problem of finding that plane : it only flew what, 500 miles ?
21:28 mircea_popescu well that's 250`000 square miles to look over.
21:28 decimation yeah, you can't carpet-nuke that kind of area
21:28 mircea_popescu and this if you roughly know the direction. if you don't....
21:28 asciilifeform incidentally, inverse-square effect is why icbms switched to 'mirv' (multiple warhead) systems instead of one fat bomb.
21:28 mircea_popescu ^
21:28 mircea_popescu and even that, it's what... a hack.
21:29 mircea_popescu does little really
21:29 decimation this article has a pretty good map http://theaviationist.com/2014/03/22/satellite-china-new-debris/
21:29 asciilifeform well, you can mostly level a megapolis, if you have reasonably-accurate targeting
21:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform let's play with math. latent heat for water is what, 12k, +4k per degree.
21:30 mircea_popescu so if you want to boil up afghanistan, you're looking at
21:30 asciilifeform why boil the sea. so wasteful. let's do 'great lakes.'
21:31 mircea_popescu ;;calc 500000 * 10**6 * 50 * (80 *4000 + 12000)
21:31 gribble 8300000000000000000
21:31 mircea_popescu that's a quantity of joules.
21:31 decimation http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Peacekeeper-missile-testing.jpg
21:31 asciilifeform (incidentally, vladimir chelomei suggested exactly this.)
21:31 asciilifeform decimation: that's a famous picture. but - it's a long exposure.
21:31 mircea_popescu ;;calc 8300000000000000000 / (6.1178632 * 10 ** 9)
21:31 gribble 1356682836.58
21:32 mircea_popescu ;;calc 1356682836.58 * 100 / 500
21:32 gribble 271336567.316
21:32 decimation (8 300 000 000 000 000 000 joules) / (1 ton of tnt) =1.98374761 × 109
21:32 mircea_popescu cost 271mn btc to burn up afghanistan.
21:32 asciilifeform lol
21:32 mircea_popescu totally worth it right ?
21:33 asciilifeform i also recall that there was a rather serious problem with 'warhead fratricide'
21:33 decimation that's 200 10 megaton nukes
21:33 asciilifeform neutrons from neighbouring blasts would prematurely pop the fissile initiator of a given piece
21:33 mircea_popescu yeah that's a problem.
21:34 asciilifeform if i recall, this was solved with some clever finesse (entirely absent in english language literature, afaik) with neutron tubes:
21:34 mircea_popescu and the thing with megalopolis-oi. cairo yes, cause it's shit. but most modern people live spaced out.
21:34 mircea_popescu europe is pretty much one single urban area by now
21:35 asciilifeform primary was shaped in such a way that it needed 1) the explosive compression and, 2) a certain blast from neutron generator tube - to pop - and (2) would vary in strength based on background
21:35 decimation well, the other point is that if the goal of your war is to capture the enemy's resources, destroying those brains in the cities is the way to defeat your own purpose
21:36 mircea_popescu seems more practical to just start a facebook campaign
21:36 decimation indeed.
21:37 mircea_popescu which brings us exactly to why bitcoin is so important.
21:37 asciilifeform the folks who originally built these things weren't hoping to conquer anything. they were satisfied with the idea of: glass parking lots, free of untermenschen.
21:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
21:41 decimation in retrospect, that seems like a big joke
21:42 mircea_popescu that's the chief value of retrospect
21:43 mircea_popescu extracts the jokes
21:43 decimation like in what respect would the us free of cities be valuable?
21:43 decimation are you going to mine some coal and grow corn?
21:43 decimation what's the point? they will do that today in exchange for little green peices of fabric
21:43 asciilifeform decimation: in what sense is the corpse of the fellow you plug in a duel valuable?
21:43 asciilifeform you - him, so he couldn't you.
21:43 decimation a trophy I guess
21:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform a duel eh ?
21:45 nubbins` phew
21:45 nubbins` long day
21:45 mircea_popescu the ukrainians called a general mobilisation, nobody showed.
21:45 mircea_popescu what duel ?
21:45 decimation in a duel, you can be certain about the death of the enemy; not so much against the nuclear triad
21:45 mircea_popescu if the russians invade alaska the us citizenry would flock there mostly to tweet about it
21:45 decimation that logic more than anything explains the lack of nuclear exchange, in my opinion
21:46 decimation there would be concern about the rights of the eskimos
21:46 asciilifeform somebody should print cloth crib sheets, like the maps given to british officers during the war, but for americans. contents: 'don't shoot - i know secrets!' in 30 languages.
21:47 mircea_popescu "don't shoot or i'll unfollow you"
21:47 asciilifeform lol
21:47 nubbins` heh.
21:47 joecool +1
21:47 mircea_popescu "i like your nonshooting of myself truly"
21:47 mircea_popescu "dead men wash no dishes" / "dead women suck no cock"
21:47 mircea_popescu there's plenty.
21:48 asciilifeform oldie but goodie. orlov on twittards / silicon valley / etc. -
21:48 asciilifeform http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/07/dead-souls.html
↖
21:48 ozbot ClubOrlov: Dead Souls
21:49 mircea_popescu and with that i'll bid you all a very good nuclear summer!
21:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
21:51 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00319999 = 0.32 BTC [+] {2}
22:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 123 @ 0.0032 = 0.3936 BTC [+]
22:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
22:03 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
22:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5123 @ 0.00095016 = 4.8677 BTC [+]
~ 17 minutes ~
22:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25637 @ 0.00095214 = 24.41 BTC [+] {3}
22:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.11950724 = 1.0756 BTC [-]
22:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.06053355 = 0.5448 BTC [-] {6}
22:51 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.06200108 = 0.558 BTC [-] {5}
~ 29 minutes ~
23:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [MS] 42 @ 0.00330984 = 0.139 BTC [-] {5}
~ 33 minutes ~
23:55 Neil .d
23:55 ozbot 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 359 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.2350% in 2d 3h 17m 54s
23:56 Neil Shit the last 70-ish blocks have been insanely fast.
23:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 121 @ 0.00324619 = 0.3928 BTC [+] {2}
23:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34719 @ 0.00095313 = 33.0917 BTC [+] {4}
23:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 178 @ 0.003288 = 0.5853 BTC [+] {3}
23:59 MisterE where is this letter to SEC?
← 2014-03-21 | 2014-03-23 → ↑

Random(trilema) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default