Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-08-28 | 2019-08-30 → ↓
02:50 mircea_popescu ooo megalog.
02:59 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931721 << well, or maybe some of the rotakus in attendance take pity on the inquisitve minds wanting to know and trasnlate some
02:59 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 19:59:18 lobbes: incidentally, it may be time I join the rotaku club. Good % of Trilema that I can't even begin to read
02:59 mircea_popescu (i'm pretty sure they would by specific request)
03:07 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how that goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education,
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03:07 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 19:55:35 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 << Thank you. I was thinking this was the way to go as most of the folx giving me the best advice at those meetings (and online for that matter) were, in fact, older subbie girls near their 50s, followed by the 'old guard' owners.
03:07 mircea_popescu meaning from seeking power to seeking potential (the reagent / driver is the marginal disutility of money, rather than simple sclerosis, to be clear).
03:07 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-09 04:01:43 mp_en_viaje: 2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down.
03:07 mircea_popescu so in practical, male, power-constructed terms, however you wish to call this : if you fail to make good because you spent all your resources hailing twennysomethings, that's a failure of education (ie, blame the parents, shoulda told you better), but if you fail to make it because couldn't find support in the old guard, well, that's the plain failure to thrive (blame self).
03:10 mircea_popescu (and, for completeness, i find the misrepresentation thereof as "ethical feeling" as displayed in ustarded tradition from carnegie to buffett ~particularly~ galling. it is EXACTLY iliterate huswife hearing on the radio them paris folk have dat aifl towers and going about her courtyard to identify "what could be that them aifl tower in here". cuz everything has one, right, she knows, like when she was a little girl, those u
03:10 mircea_popescu gly bumps on her chest are her boobs! like she's seen in the hotter older girls with real boobage.
03:13 mircea_popescu so then she picks the garbage pile the rooster sits on, calls it aifl tower and tells all her ingroup. cuz right, it makes sense, rooster ? gaelic cock ? it's even kinda shaped similarily! then through the "beauty" of the internet her stupid fucking son is going to pester dictionary writers to "be inclusive" and treat the eiffel tower ~AS A CLASS~ rather than as an item, and discuss "other examples" in the first stage, the
03:13 mircea_popescu n "find allies" and "break down the priviledge"... the intellectual socioeconomy of ustarded morons is quite well understood by now.)
03:16 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931730 << ustards very much ottoman/manchuko sorta "monkey accidentally came on top of man, drives decay" sorta "invader". fundamentally sterile inferior foreigner kinda occupation.
03:16 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 20:17:11 asciilifeform: interestingly, the americans, who colonized and subjugated jp, to this day produced ~0 usable lit re the lang. ~all of asciilifeform's working materials -- from su.
03:18 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid.
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03:18 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 20:32:28 lobbes: perhaps starting with kanji not a bad idea
03:19 mircea_popescu but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success)
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03:21 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931765 << let's not js anymoar, experince shows it's never the right answer
03:21 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 21:18:34 trinque: willing to use a minimal amount of JS?
03:22 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931769 << but if you redirect both you end up with endless redirect, and if you only redirect one either the server doesn't know what link is sought or the client doesn't scroll to the desired position.
03:22 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 21:20:29 trinque: heh, I can go hankier. you could instead have a server-side rewrite rule that 301 redirects from / to #
~ 15 minutes ~
03:37 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931804 <<->> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931386
03:37 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-28 21:35:52 asciilifeform: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and see what he thinks before changing proggy. and whoknows, maybe we both missed sumthing.
03:37 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-27 11:18:24 mircea_popescu: let this sit for a little we think more of it.
03:37 mircea_popescu dun have to be solved today, we'll live for quite a while as it stands.
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~ 1 hours 36 minutes ~
05:13 mircea_popescu trinque, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931280 ?
05:13 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-26 17:24:16 mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.5 12tGxcb82jAgCCpCga4yoGtAvZkgst3jrk
05:14 mircea_popescu apparently the prev one also
~ 3 hours 43 minutes ~
08:58 trinque various "block explorers" show that one as shipped. afaik all have.
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~ 56 minutes ~
09:54 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931856 << aint catastrophically burning, troo; but it does block import of pre-'dragon' log until fixed (and, current log links may in fact slowly break as machine clock drifts )
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09:54 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 03:37:54 mircea_popescu: dun have to be solved today, we'll live for quite a while as it stands.
09:57 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931848 << this character mentioned 4 or 5 times recently... but does it have a name ? ( i admit, when 1st saw picture, assumed it was a young photo-shy hanbot )
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09:57 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 03:19:07 mircea_popescu: but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success)
10:01 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931846 << ameritards wrote books where all examples given in translit ! moar or less guaranteeing that whoever studies from these, can only parrot -- and poorly, the phonemes dun correspond to the eng ones ( tho funnily enuff they mostly exist in ru )
10:01 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 03:18:37 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid.
~ 18 minutes ~
10:19 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931861 << ought add, it will also create strong headache when the other bots stand up. none of the links will be guaranteed portable b/w bots , even if pains are taken to sync clocks. they drift.
10:19 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 09:54:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931856 << aint catastrophically burning, troo; but it does block import of pre-'dragon' log until fixed (and, current log links may in fact slowly break as machine clock drifts )
~ 1 hours 48 minutes ~
12:08 asciilifeform !q uptime
12:08 snsabot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 13d 1h 44m
~ 22 minutes ~
12:30 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: meanwhile i found a fitting GB switch. 1u plant will thereby house 15 rk .
12:30 asciilifeform ( 1 hole is taken up by the exit cable )
12:31 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'ma still get 16 rk, 1 will be spare.
12:33 asciilifeform annoyingly , they all run on 12v, so can't use single-output 5v high current thing like i was initially planning, for the entire thing
12:39 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Very good news
12:53 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: any news on your front ? ( in particular, found reasonably-priced castle for mp ? )
~ 17 minutes ~
13:10 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'm working on organizing a break down of the situation. It's a very map-heavy exercise
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13:11 asciilifeform i can picture.
13:13 asciilifeform meanwhile, asciilifeform realized that can use standard 1u atx ps, w/ 'breakout board' , to get the req'd 20A 5v + 1A 12v.
13:17 BingoBoingo In local news, don't skimp on the quicklime https://www.sudestada.com.uy/articleId__1a7440e0-0947-439f-9437-327a3cb95b6e/10893/Detalle-de-Noticia
~ 2 hours 6 minutes ~
15:24 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: meanwhile rk (16) + heat sinks bought. 1st major chunk of the new crate. 670 ($) . ( still need cabling, ps , the ssd's, and naturally to assemble. )
15:24 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: ty
15:25 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'ma weld the support nuts to the pedestal, this time, nomoar fiddlings in hotel room.
15:25 BingoBoingo AHA, tyvm
15:26 asciilifeform will post photo 'porn' when assembled, for aficionados.
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15:27 asciilifeform !Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?
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15:27 lobbesbot asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
15:33 feedbot http://qntra.net/2019/08/magistrate-judge-rules-of-federal-procedure-common-law-and-hoaxtoshi-collide-in-absolutley-schizophrenic-ruling/ << Qntra -- Magistrate Judge, Rules Of Federal Procedure, Common Law, And Hoaxtoshi Collide In Absolutley Schizophrenic Ruling
~ 56 minutes ~
16:29 diana_coman asciilifeform: in your logbot readme: shouldn't it be create database nsalog; instead of createdb? at least my postgres chokes on createdb under psql
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~ 38 minutes ~
17:08 lobbes diana_coman: I had same observation: see >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929471
17:08 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-17 18:09:22 trinque: two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command
17:12 lobbes http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931835 << that was an educational footnote,ty. Also a good reminder that I am still in 'dirt' status, and to not let any of the cannibals out there try and lead me back into pretense
17:12 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 03:07:52 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how that goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education,
17:12 lobbes "This "boy meets girl, they adultify each other" model is pure halucinatoria, the very substance of delirium and psychosis. It does not exist, nor ever has existed, nor ever will exist in reality." << sheesh, I've seen that model before
17:13 lobbes I did reach back out to one of the helpful 50 yo subs I talked to though; she actually suggested meeting for coffee sometime, to which I said I'd love to. Hopefully will prove to be a pleasant and educational meeting
17:13 lobbes In other news, I'm emerging a LAMP stack on my new server. Once complete I'll start futzing with getting the logotron stood up
17:13 * lobbes is determined to beat diana_coman to getting the 2nd logger online
17:21 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931889 << diana_coman this is so, i found recently when making mirror . feel free to submit a patch to amend the readme, otherwise it'll go in my next one.
17:21 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 16:29:20 diana_coman: asciilifeform: in your logbot readme: shouldn't it be create database nsalog; instead of createdb? at least my postgres chokes on createdb under psql
17:23 asciilifeform diana_coman: also imho it'd be neat if you wrote about how built the mirror, nitpicks, etc. for n00bz. ( i did not have time to write a pedantic cookbook, and as you can see even the readme had mistakes )
17:25 asciilifeform ^ or lobbes , if lobbes gets to finish line 1st
17:25 asciilifeform both lobbes and diana_coman , lemme know when yer ready to sync, i'ma manually refresh the db dump
17:26 asciilifeform ( normally it goes at 0hrs nyc time )
17:26 diana_coman asciilifeform, lobbes fwiw I'm having additional fun due to older versions of postgresql (and last time I used any postgresql was > 12 years ago + never digged it all that much, ffs)
17:26 asciilifeform diana_coman: oughta work with 9 and 10, not tried others
17:27 * lobbes used 9.4 on testbed
17:27 lobbes haven't tried on any other versions yet
17:27 diana_coman asciilifeform: myeah, 8 here; and no "create extension" so had to change the scripts to load the thing
17:27 asciilifeform the only even vaguely version-sensitive knob is the search index
17:27 diana_coman aha, precisely
17:28 diana_coman create extension was introduced in 9; so earlier versions will puke there.
17:28 diana_coman anyways, back to twisting its arms.
17:28 lobbes good luck
17:28 asciilifeform afaik trigraphic index dun exist pre-9 -- but could be wrong
17:29 diana_coman asciilifeform: the extension pg_trgm thingies does exist; it's the loading that is different
17:29 asciilifeform a.
17:30 * asciilifeform considers 'make things go with oldest/smallest possib. spittoon' a Right Thing in general case
17:31 asciilifeform i simply used the item that was known to work solidly w/ phuctor, when wrote the logger, was all.
17:40 * asciilifeform meanwhile puzzles over where the fuck weldable m3 nuts are to be had
17:42 lobbes man, while it was a learning curve at first, I'm loving Gentoo now. Making my x86 system on this server to work like my x86 cuntoo testbed is as simple as just copying over my USE flags and package masks
17:49 lobbes well maybe not THAT simple. But it is nice to be able to look in my masks and remember "oh yeah, I gotta remember to pick PYTHON target = 2.7" for e.g.
18:02 asciilifeform lobbes: yours is a traditional gentoo? or a trinqueian cuntoo ?
18:03 asciilifeform cuz my trad gentoo boxen are all in condition where portage is no longer usable
18:03 snsabot Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
18:04 lobbes asciilifeform: my testbed box is a trinqueian cuntoo (see: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/)
18:05 asciilifeform a!
18:05 lobbes but server is a traditional gentoo
18:06 asciilifeform these will sorta work (if you make absolutely sure not to emerge --sync, EVER) ~until~ you find that some package is no longer alive on the (quite wilted) mirrors
18:07 diana_coman ahahaha, python 2.6 -> barf http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZzZjn/?raw=true
18:07 asciilifeform then -- yer gentoo has turned into equiv. of hand-sewn buildroot linux, where sure you can install things, but nao gotta manually tar ... ./configure && make && make install etc
18:07 asciilifeform diana_coman: 2.6 has diff print() syntax from 2.7
18:08 diana_coman if it's only that...
18:08 asciilifeform afaik only
18:08 diana_coman that flask thing gives me the hives
18:08 asciilifeform diana_coman: where didja get a box with 2.6 even
18:08 asciilifeform diana_coman: 'flask' is the http shitting lib. i've used same 1 since 2013 (phuctor)
18:09 diana_coman centos 6; because gentoo problem as you just described + the poor moldavian guys anyway pretty much @kukuruz
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18:09 asciilifeform all of asciilifeform's published pythonisms are tested under 2.7. ( some ~may~ work on older; generally none will ever work on 3+ )
18:10 asciilifeform ( there's quite a few, turns out; e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-12#1626258 . all 2.7 )
18:10 snsabot Logged on 2017-03-12 14:40:14 Framedragger: asciilifeform: OT and just grammar nitpicking, but in http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sage_pill.py line 22, s/Could connect/Could not connect/
18:11 asciilifeform to make life even more 'interesting', there aint a magical version that can pick and 'will work on all of'em' . 2.6isms break on 2.7 just same.
18:13 diana_coman ah, yes, I'm sure 2.6ism would break 2.7, it's more this "fun" of code reuse; and I can ofc install python 2.7 on top; I seriously wonder though what's really the fastest route; because also, above it doesn't even seem to be print, it barfs when importing flask, a few layers deep in werkzeug and whatever
18:13 asciilifeform no one yet asked how asciilifeform ended up on 2.7. answr: it's where gentoo stopped when died and i put it in waxworks.
18:15 asciilifeform diana_coman: if you decide to fiddle with the proggy so it goes on 2.6, prolly can be done ; but keep in mind that i will not be able to run yours anywhere, there's no 2.6 on any known gentoo of past decade or so.
18:16 asciilifeform this 'joy' is what one gets from a lang w/out paper standard a la ada.
18:16 asciilifeform ( tho even gnat deviates from the paper, in several already discovered cases, sadly )
18:17 diana_coman well yes, I'd rather ditch python alltogether.
18:17 asciilifeform diana_coman: if you (or anyone) rewrite the logger -- i'ma clap
18:18 asciilifeform i made it 'low tech' to the point of people tearing out their hair from missing features, but result is that it is small enuff that could rewrite .
18:19 asciilifeform ftr i was half-convinced that it won't even run outside of asciilifeform's test beds -- until lobbes replicated
18:19 diana_coman asciilifeform: the main q is: in wtf exactly
18:19 asciilifeform diana_coman: if i had a palatable answer -- would have written in ~that~, lol
18:20 * asciilifeform wrote in py script 'not from a good life'(tm)
18:20 diana_coman myeah; in case it's not clear - none of the above was a complaint re asciilifeform's work at all.
18:21 asciilifeform diana_coman: rly it oughta be in tmsr-adalisp (tm)(r) but this apparently dun exist yet.
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18:21 asciilifeform ( recall thread, where 'simple script lang where can sockets etc' )
18:22 asciilifeform when i 1st sat down to write it, thought 'ada', then realized that simply to make the necessary glue would take a year, and that's if did nuffin else.
18:24 asciilifeform then thought 'cl', then noticed that will need 9000 unexplored (by asciilifeform) lib liquishits for pg, http, etc.; then 'fuck it, i'ma cut up phuctor and sew from its still-twitching living pieces'
18:24 asciilifeform result was the item nao running.
18:25 diana_coman asciilifeform: and I think it was the best option available, yes.
18:26 diana_coman for clarity re python 2.6 it's quite clear that it's not worth it - all sorts of breakings in flask & co really.
18:26 asciilifeform i considered even exotics but realized it aint happening in reasonable time frame (and fuck knows what would look like) if did so. so went like so.
18:27 diana_coman to cite from flask's description, for full allergy-triggers: A micro-framework for Python based on Werkzeug, Jinja 2 and good intentions
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18:27 asciilifeform diana_coman: for 2.6 need whole set of vintage liquishits that went with that specific py
18:27 diana_coman I think I got a boatload of the good intentions part.
18:28 asciilifeform diana_coman: 'flask' , 'psycopg', etc. are erry bit as rubbish as the docs suggest. with the twist that the assemblage actually worx ( phuctor's been running, incl. under various abuses , for yrs , on same ) .
18:29 asciilifeform if i had to pick it up all now for 1st time, dunno if could bring myself to -- it has absolutely atrocious feel to it (esp. given the 'modern' docs)
18:30 asciilifeform and i'll be the 1st to burn it all when there's a realistic alternative.
18:31 asciilifeform earlier thrd where mp popped the cover on these and fulled 3 buckets with barf
18:31 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-14 02:58:26 mp_en_viaje: Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing.
18:32 asciilifeform iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon
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18:33 diana_coman myeah, I quietly barfed in my notes re flask before but this time it just spilled in here.
18:34 asciilifeform saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot
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18:35 asciilifeform ( considering, it is in py , interpreted lang, and my pages are generated approx on par with speed of phf's , at the immediate shitting arse end (discounting pipe delay ) )
18:36 asciilifeform worse, not even certain that it is possible to write a clean/light www shitter , considering what http , tcp , are like to begin with
18:38 asciilifeform ( mp is fond of old php , but it suffers from 100% of same headaches , and in fact even slower , esp. if the job is even slightly moar complicated than wp ; he arrived at it same way i did at 'flask' -- picked up decade ago and 'it worx, i'ma pour cement on this' )
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18:41 asciilifeform imho the Right Thing for this problem domain would be a tmsr-baked script lang built from ground, like-this . but so far no one has the free hands.
18:41 asciilifeform ( would also be Right Thing for e.g. bootstrapping gnat, and related battlefield )
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18:42 asciilifeform i demonstrated, in 'm', how to write nontrivial proggies w/out libc or any c glue whatsoever, or any compiler dependency whatsoever.
18:42 asciilifeform nao all needs , is someone with hands.
18:43 asciilifeform the sword -- is in the stone!111 nao who wants to pull.
18:45 asciilifeform diana_coman: in re pythonisms -- for that matter i'm to ~this day~ ! using my orig v.py (w / phf's 'vdiff' , and your fixup patch.) also because never found in what to rewrite it.
18:47 asciilifeform there's imho a ~huge~ chunk of problem domain that is begging for a simple, well-specified, ~frozen~ scripting lang.
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18:47 asciilifeform with implementation weighing a few dozen kB.
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18:48 asciilifeform (imho entirely doable, i emulated an entire fucking comp, with mmu, uart, clock, in <13kB proggy)
18:56 diana_coman well, I have at least fully explored the 1-strand spittoon: psycopg2 on python 2.7 wants postgresql 9 or greater and so it goes.
18:57 asciilifeform diana_coman: my test bed fwiw used pg 9.4.5 .
18:57 asciilifeform ( on dulap, where deployed -- 10.3 )
18:59 asciilifeform diana_coman: you'll want a front end thing for it to live under (prolly apache) also .
19:00 diana_coman asciilifeform: apache so far is working, what can I say
19:00 diana_coman maybe that's also the "wrong" version...
19:00 diana_coman asciilifeform: what's the easiest coupling if they run on same machine anywya?
19:00 asciilifeform diana_coman: if it runs, will run, all that's asked of it is to forward a tcp pipe to port x (whichever yer py is on)
19:01 diana_coman ah, shall see; *if* the bot runs at all, that is.
19:01 asciilifeform diana_coman: i at one pt blamed that coupling for the slow, and measured (plain rev.proxy vs 'wsgi' (equiv of php's fastcgi) , found 0 diff
19:01 asciilifeform diana_coman: bot is own program and doesn't have any deps (aside from py per se and psycopg)
19:01 diana_coman aha, initially I though it required wsgi
19:01 asciilifeform diana_coman: i never posted that variant, imho it is useless moving part
19:02 diana_coman well, and postgres
19:02 asciilifeform the log viewer represented in the vtree simply serves itself on given local port when it runs. which you can then fwd to wherever.
19:03 asciilifeform diana_coman: naturally and postgres. i was speaking of the py glues.
19:04 asciilifeform to be utterly pedantic : the log sys consists of 2 separate py proggies that share a db (normally expected on same box, but can in principle be elsewhere). bot.py and reader.py
19:04 asciilifeform the former sits in irc and records lines, answers cmds, etc. ; the latter serves up the httpized logism.
19:06 asciilifeform it is in fact possib. to use 1 w/out the other ( e.g. asciilifeform's adhoc mirrors have only reader.py ; one could sit a bot using solely bot.py and then write yer own viewer at leisure ; and so on )
~ 16 minutes ~
19:22 asciilifeform the only knob in bot that actually gives a shit re the reader is the search knob ( see where it expects to find the # of results ) .
19:23 asciilifeform if running bot w/out a public www viewer, it prolly has no business answering commands in chan anyway
19:35 * asciilifeform bbl:meat
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
20:41 diana_coman asciilifeform: mind giving the exact versions for flask, werkzeug and whatever other shit is used in there?
20:42 diana_coman I have python 2.7.16 flask 1.1.1 and werkzeug 0.15.5 from what I see and the reader.py fails complaining that there is no flask.ext.cache , which seems to be again some version-shenanigans
20:42 diana_coman postgresql is 9.6
20:45 diana_coman the full list of stuff pulled in by flask seems to be: flask Werkzeug itsdangerous Jinja2 MarkupSafe
20:49 asciilifeform diana_coman: on testbed , print flask.__version__ >> 0.10.1 ; python --version >> 2.7.5 ;
20:49 asciilifeform the cache thing is unused, as lobbes pointed out 2wks ago, you can safely comment it out
20:50 asciilifeform ( this will go into next patch )
20:50 diana_coman asciilifeform: thanks; and yes, the .ext.cache trouble seems to be re v 0. or 1., ugh
20:50 asciilifeform print werkzeug.__version__ >> 0.9.4
20:50 asciilifeform psycopg2's is 2.6.1
20:51 asciilifeform i think that covers all the crapolade
20:51 diana_coman well, by now it seems to me that either ALL match, or otherwise headache; and I suspect that at the next level it's simply either same repo/distro or won't match
20:51 asciilifeform lobbes didja have similar horror when baking yours ?
20:52 diana_coman he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though
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20:52 asciilifeform diana_coman i'm curious how you went about installing the libs on yours
20:52 asciilifeform what does 'centos' have ? 'yum' ?
20:53 asciilifeform or didja by hand
20:53 diana_coman asciilifeform: yum, yes
20:53 diana_coman but anyway by now my notes are a full novel
20:53 asciilifeform gentoo has , in any given instance, fuckknowswhat, BUT at least reliably pulls down the particular necessary strand of the spittoon, typically
20:53 diana_coman because of 2.7 etc
20:53 asciilifeform i.e. a working x+y+z
20:54 asciilifeform i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was
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20:54 diana_coman there is pip and some easy_install
20:55 asciilifeform this is pretty much the last thing i'd be recommending to people to do, save for the fact that i shat out a log sys in it, lol
20:55 diana_coman as usual, there's no lack of "tools", lolz; only none does anything other than eating up more time, ofc.
20:56 asciilifeform verily
20:59 asciilifeform diana_coman: i vaguely suspect that this is the thing that discouraged past folx who made loggers, from genesising. 'dafuq is the point, likely no one can even replicate this'
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21:01 asciilifeform even when i was sewing 'pehbot' , out of ben & trinque's cl logbot, found that it took substantial effort to get the req'd cl libs onto the box
21:02 asciilifeform ( and that's a box already, years ago, set up for clism... )
21:02 diana_coman asciilifeform: so then what, I'm still better off writing the bot in C or what?
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21:03 asciilifeform diana_coman: i'ma jump with a parachute made of garbage bags before writing www-facing proggy in c, but maybe that's just me..
21:04 diana_coman well yes but it's starting to sound even appealing here, lolz
21:08 asciilifeform well if you feel like sweating out 3 kilometres of malloc() and realloc()'s and errno()'s -- who am i to say
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21:08 diana_coman given this, I seriously wonder if it can be much worse to make it in ada on top of all the gnat-mess including unbounded strings and gnat.sockets and everything else; at least the full gnat so far *is* more transferable
21:09 asciilifeform diana_coman: you'd need to bake pg glue for ada, there aint any
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21:09 asciilifeform ( and it'd in turn have to use pg's c ffi, afaik there's no other usable glue for it at all )
21:09 asciilifeform i.e. nulltermed strings & all.
21:10 asciilifeform ( and then face the q : ~which~ pg !? )
21:11 diana_coman I'll go and sleep.
21:11 asciilifeform and then you might find, as i did, that gnat.sockets mysteriously barfs in certain cases
21:11 asciilifeform goodnight diana_coman
21:17 asciilifeform thinking about it, i'm not terribly surprised that centos 6 dun suck down a working set of shitlibs: loox like it was released in jul 2011 .
21:20 asciilifeform imho instead of rewriting logger for 11th time out of matchsticks and hot glue, would be better to make a proper scripting lang...
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21:20 asciilifeform 1 that knows how to pg, socketize, etc.
21:22 asciilifeform atm i have a distinct unpleasant feeling that the ratchet presently does not ratchet very well.
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21:22 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-23 04:51:18 mircea_popescu: it's this device that transforms inca (circular motion) into republic (linear motion) by the principle of only permitting rotary motion in one direction, thereby using the inca mass against itself.
21:23 BingoBoingo Meanwhile in lulzy spam disclosures: US Office of Foreign Asset Control http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GLllJ/?raw=true
21:23 asciilifeform lol nigerian office of yandex spam
21:27 BingoBoingo 4 real, Also Argentina is now officially in "selective default" after the latest round of Derpities announced trying to keep hell from breaking loose before October 27th.
21:28 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the chinese can show up with the slave galleons and start loadin' whenever they feel like. ( and it is a deep enigma, far above asciilifeform's paygrade, to explain wtf they're waiting for )
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21:29 asciilifeform their 'wait for his corpse to float by'(tm) school of thought, is more impenetrable imho than their hieroglyphs.
21:29 BingoBoingo Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population.
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21:30 BingoBoingo I suspect Mandarin is not a language in the mundane sense.
21:31 asciilifeform i suspect (based solely on 'rectal oracle') that argentina to chinese plays same role as 'junk mortgage' house plays to usg ministry of handout-payola .
21:31 asciilifeform i.e. somehow is worth to'em to continue pretense that owning it is worth sumthing.
21:33 asciilifeform ( or, alternative rewrite of same equation, that the resourced to clean up the gangrenous pus from puncturing the bezzle, aint available )
21:33 asciilifeform *resources
21:33 asciilifeform so will go unpunctured until reaches whatever physical limit exists for it.
21:34 asciilifeform argentina aint even peculiar in this respect, exactly same q can be asked re usa & the rest of reich
21:35 asciilifeform they already went through... 2 ? 3 ? 'default' 'refinance' 'rinse & repeat' cycles ?
21:36 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats.
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21:36 asciilifeform not required hypothesis -- lafondistani monkey also shoots at usg bureaucrat if happens to get in range
21:36 BingoBoingo I don't see a situation where the Chicoms step in to save Argentina. Argentina isn't rich in natural resources like Vzla.
21:37 asciilifeform dun keep the latter from printing moneys to hand to the former
21:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: my suspicion is that it (like in fact usa) is a 'paper resource'
21:37 asciilifeform 'worth' strictly on acct of having money flushed into it
21:38 asciilifeform ( and then idjits noticing 'someone paid for this! it must be worth sumthing' )
21:38 asciilifeform mp had a likbez where used example of recent pyramid 'groupon', where similar.
21:39 BingoBoingo No one depends on the strength of Argentine paper holding to prop up anything. Even Uruguay has adopted a strict decoupling from Argentina so as to not sink with them.
21:39 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: not argentine paper, lol. chinese paper.
21:39 asciilifeform they almost certainly have an internal bezzle that considers the sank moneys as 'asset' of some sort.
21:41 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: picture if you had a herd of worm-ridden cows that produced 0 milk, and meat that no one would eat even in gulag. how to make any money from them ? one way is to keep feeding'em and 'financialize' them, borrow against'em from idiots, 'leverage', etc
21:41 BingoBoingo The blackboard rate today hit 0.38/0.98 compra/venta. Part of this is intentional monetary policy re: "fuck Argentina", but there being less distance between zero and compra than compra and venta is a fairly new phenomenon.
21:42 asciilifeform waitasec, so, what , BingoBoingo could walk in, buy 0.38, sell for 0.98 immediately, and come out with a wad of phree green ?
21:43 asciilifeform or is this only for 'speshul' people ?
21:43 snsabot Logged on 2017-06-08 13:09:01 a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
21:44 asciilifeform or do i misread the #s somehow
21:44 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The cambios buy per 0.38, sell for 0.98. Very infrequent the blackboard rate is used with Argentine pesos, usually cambios offer better rates on pesos Argentinos for all but trivial volumes.
21:44 asciilifeform aa!
21:44 BingoBoingo Other direction
21:44 asciilifeform ook cuz otherwise wtf
21:45 BingoBoingo The wide blackboard spread is because no one wants to sit on pesos argentinas
21:47 asciilifeform if owner of argentina wants someone to buy it, could start whenever he wants by sending in the wood chippers and mulching the 'samba si, trabajo no' aboriginals 24/7 until leaves the 2% or what who were the reasonable auto mechanics etc .
21:48 asciilifeform as it is, hot waste from chernobyl is actually moar marketable ( there are actual uses for e.g. co-60 )
21:48 BingoBoingo Indeedd
21:48 BingoBoingo Cobalt 60 has many uses.
21:49 asciilifeform pretty expensive, too, interestingly -- i priced
21:49 BingoBoingo A labor movement that wants the factories to leave has no use.
21:51 asciilifeform i doubt ( and esp. after mp barfed ) that anyone would buy live argentines at any price point . it's like trying to sell sewer rats. normally you gotta ~pay~ someone to trap & remove these.
21:52 asciilifeform perhaps brazil will buy the place, for nuke waste dump.
21:53 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931886 << didn't, and I'm a little hesitant to continue on in that vein before making sure I know what the desirable product is.
21:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 15:27:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?
21:53 lobbesbot trinque: Sent 6 hours and 25 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?
21:53 BingoBoingo Why would Brasil buy? Argentina doing what Argentina does is part of Brasil's sales pitch.
21:53 trinque huh, that's sort of annying behavior.
21:53 asciilifeform trinque: well i'm about to sew together a 15 unit arm64 cluster.
21:53 asciilifeform trinque: hm ?
21:54 trinque lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead
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21:54 trinque asciilifeform: I mean whether cuntoo is desirable as is.
21:55 asciilifeform trinque: is there a substantial missing piece i'm unaware of ?
21:55 trinque trying to learn in my old age to take half a smell of the market before hauling off and building something
21:55 asciilifeform afaik it's entirely workable atm
21:55 asciilifeform and certainly in comparison to asciilifeform's fossilized gentoo currently in use
21:55 trinque kk
21:56 trinque possible avenue of porting is to stand up an amd64 cuntoo, and then use crossdev to rebuild all ebuilds at a specified root dir
21:57 trinque looking for what the env variable is
21:57 asciilifeform CFLAGS="-march=aarch64" i expect
21:57 trinque nah, the one where you can tell portage to blast its built-proggie output to a new root
21:58 trinque I've used this to great benefit to blap down an embedded firmware
21:58 * asciilifeform only ever built embeddeds (e.g. for 'm', for 'pogo', etc) via 'buildroot', never made a gentoo for'em
21:59 asciilifeform i was orig. planning to attempt a cuntoo for 'm' but then barfed
22:00 asciilifeform ( it, despite month+ of pure asm massage -- found to be incurably slow )
22:01 asciilifeform is actually why new rk plant -- will be sold to folx using conventional www stack etc, traditional softs, even trinque's vpnism idea, and the like.
22:02 trinque ah it's just ROOT
22:02 asciilifeform trinque do you want a rk btw ? i have some spares here, can send you
22:03 * trinque will pick up his own, but thanks very much!
22:03 asciilifeform aite
22:03 asciilifeform get'em while they're alive. last time for 6mo i was convinced it was outta print permanently
22:03 trinque link to the exact model? and I'll stand up my crossdev stack for it
22:03 trinque and document
22:03 asciilifeform roc-rk3328-cc .
22:03 trinque aye aye
22:03 asciilifeform comes in 3 sizes (1G, 2G, 4G)
22:04 asciilifeform no storages on pcb (is major reason why i picked it) , needs sd to boot from and then usb3 stick to mount root
22:04 asciilifeform for thread-completeness, asciilifeform's fillings for this machine.
22:05 asciilifeform a++ trinque , if you bake this, will be much appreciated .
22:05 trinque cool, got a big'n and small otw, arrives tomorrow
22:05 asciilifeform dun fughet the heat sink
22:05 asciilifeform it runs rather hot when 'naked'
22:07 trinque cool, got also
22:07 asciilifeform the vendor's heat sink is pretty spartan, but worx, and snaps in with bare hands, convenient.
~ 17 minutes ~
22:24 asciilifeform trinque: ave1 even made a working gnat, but it doesn't know how to do preemtible threads.
22:25 asciilifeform (apparently this was never yet achieved on arm64)
22:26 * asciilifeform fwiw suspects that most ada proggies dun even use preemptible threads -- they spawn N threads and they run until the warhead detonates..
22:27 asciilifeform e.g. ffa/peh dun use threads at all.
~ 23 minutes ~
22:50 lobbes http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932021 << indeed, testbed on trinquean cuntoo. Yeah, did not encounter same horrors (besides the need for commenting out the cache thing)
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22:50 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 20:52:37 diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though
22:51 lobbes For clarity, on testbed I got the eater.py and the reader.py working fine. Was able to view loglines and search with no issue (on localhost only, didn't test port forwarding). Did *not* test the bot.py, however. For reference, my version info: Flask 0.12.2; psycopg2 2.7.4; Python 2.7.15
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22:51 lobbes http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932030 << on the testbed I got both flask and psycopg2 via portage
22:51 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 20:54:34 asciilifeform: i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was
22:53 lobbes http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931971 << not yet; I have a vintage php search for the classic #e logs, but that is all atm
22:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 18:32:30 asciilifeform: iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon
22:57 lobbes http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932106 << I agree this is probably the proper behavior. But it ain't changing anytime soon. The heathen coad lobbesbot runs on [i.e. it doesn't sit on the logbot tree like auctionbot] is slated to be discontinued just as soon as I get some more important things complete. Not sinking any more time trying to staple that dead horse
22:57 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-29 21:54:01 trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead
23:01 trinque fair enough
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