#trilema | 2019-01-15

asciilifeform this observation merely begs the question of "why".

00:00

mircea_popescu: never had a clogged fan on your watch ?

00:00

otherwise, if you run it you own it.

00:00

box runs till it doesn't, then behaves rather like this.

00:01

asciilifeform i did. let me tell you how it behaved : box went down. upon reboot it went down again, in the following manner : every time it was rebooted, within a finite time interval (bout an hour). no exceptions.

00:01

and then, when i went to clean it, i found it dirty ; as opposed to clean.

00:01

the case here seems to strike out on both of these.

00:01

BingoBoingo: didja happen to photo the internals when you opened ?

00:01

what did it look like ?

00:01

photo or no photo. did you take your own weight in gunk out of the fans over there ?!

00:02

i ~also~ find it peculiar your dc wouldn't have alerted you in case of thermal trip. because in general they have sensors.

00:03

waiwaat

00:03

dc has nfi what temp is inside our box

00:03

the isle cooler tends to notice if rack x is spewing out 200C

00:03

it wouldn't

00:03

what's the temp 1m from a hot iron ? ~room.

00:03

yer speaking of 'rack is on fire' case.

00:03

I took off a light layer of particulate. When I opened the chassis I found it matched the photos from when the FG were installed.

00:04

an overheated cpu is only 50c away from a working one.

00:04

( and a cpu is a ~1g thermal mass. )

00:04

i suppose this is an academic discussion. in any case, i've had warnings re hot boxes from dcs before, it's not a wholly unheard of item. laser sensor costs ~nothing, and hvac management is 60% of what they do for a living.

00:04

laser?!

00:05

w/e, the spot things.

00:05

aimed at what ? the outside ? you'd need a bomb calorimeter and whole thing in transformer oil, to stand any chance of distinguishing a frying cpu from a working one through closed chassis

00:05

mircea_popescu: if a dc were able to warn you re overheating cpu, they had root on yer box.

00:05

( and if this wasn't part of the deal you had with'em, oughta have a stern talk )

00:06

man. cpu doesn't overheat in a vacuum, gimme a break already.

00:06

<mircea_popescu> i ~also~ find it peculiar your dc wouldn't have alerted you in case of thermal trip. because in general they have sensors. << There was a ground fault alarm tripped in the datacenterś fire supression system over the weekend, but the time doesn's line up with the beginning of this reset crisis.

00:06

overheats when, for instance, 100cc/sec of air is being moved when wants 300.

00:07

you ever been in one of those parking lots where they have devices telling you how many free spots per isle/level, and red/green light above the individual spots ? without, magically, having a rod up your driver's ass.

00:07

BingoBoingo: do they log these somewhere ? how didja learn of it

00:07

same fucking thing is the case in ~every dc i eve rsaw, there's a line of sensors above the racks, and can tell whether box is working 30s, 40s or 70s

00:07

thermal trip is usually >70s or somesuch

00:07

mircea_popescu: 'is 3 tonne auto here or not' is very diff problem from 'what temperature is the red hot nail inside this 30kg crate'

00:08

asciilifeform: I asked. If you have some targeted questions I will be happy to ask them.

00:08

mircea_popescu: that'd be for ambient air. if yer ambient atmosphere is 70c, this is called 'room on fire'

00:08

and the halon gets pumped.

00:08

there's a discrete flow of air from each rack that they measure.

00:09

mircea_popescu: how wouldja distinguish via 'flow of air from rack' 2 cpus at 50c ea. vs 1 at 0 and 1 at 100.

00:09

?

00:09

you'd just notice box went from spewing 50s to spewing 55s suddenly. or w/e.

00:10

i thought we were discussing the outrageous howler that 'dc would warn if 1 box in a 42u has 1 chip 40c over temp'

00:10

not proposing this is foolproof or anything ; not strictly speaking ~impossible~ thermal trip went unnoticed.

00:11

i'd like not to lose the orig thread, re whether box was interfered with.

00:11

cuz that's a perfectly valid q.

00:11

mircea_popescu: what do you typically do with yours ? throw'em out after 1 peculiar reset ? 2 ?

00:12

depends what i use them for, yes.

00:12

i recall there was a piece where mircea_popescu threw out a raid card

00:13

but yes, i run systems which had 0 unexpected reboots, and i've thrown out components / replaced / redesigned systems over unexpected reboots.

00:13

because what can you do,.

00:13

there's the 'what used for' q also. i'm still at a loss, i'll admit, re what is to be gained even from root on a box hosting blogs.

00:13

insert typos ?

00:13

but see, it only started once box ~hosts zncs~

00:13

And weechats. irissis

00:14

quite well snapped to the peculiar idiocy of a certain band of peculiar idiots.

00:14

interesting

00:14

i'd much rather folx did those on rk's..

00:14

i recall folks asking, and you saying ok, rather than "you know what... i don't even recall who made this kernel, maybe i remake it when i have time befgore oking this"

00:15

mircea_popescu: box runs asciilifeform's kernel as of 9hr ago.

00:15

( going forward, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886856 )

00:15

Logged on 2019-01-14 16:48 asciilifeform: after we get to the bottom of UY1 issue, i'ma make sure that all iron owned by pizarro has asciilifeform-baked kernel in place.

00:15

do you suppose bios could benefit from a reflash ? if nothing else, to have thermal / crash logging as expected ?

00:16

mircea_popescu: i do. i actually bit my elbows after 1st expedition, that i did not include the necessary gear for this in the 1st crate.

00:16

it is on the cargo manifest for 2nd.

00:16

"we dunno wtf happened, i guess to a certain mind events centered on jan 13th suspicious as fuck, we have a new kernel and we redid the bios just in case, dunno what more can be possibly done" is, or atleast i guess will have to be, acceptable.

00:17

( why needs gear ? because can flash even nao, but you want to get orig rom contents ~out~ 1st, for a good looking at. and then there is 'unbrick' event also. )

00:17

mircea_popescu: acceptable for nao , but i'm inclined to make 2nd expedition sooner rather than later.

00:17

there's a list of itches that needs scratching and it got longer today.

00:18

( i suppose technically this is 4th expedition -- BingoBoingo orig pioneer, and then ben_vulpes . but asciilifeform's 2nd. )

00:20

incidentally manifest actually includes 2 FG units ( pizarro-owned ) . i had to fly'em back in april , if anyone recalls, cuz of ben_vulpes's misadventure where they were pawed by orcs for whole night

00:20

they show no signs of molestation, not only work to spec but rom untouched.

00:20

i reflashed'em for good measure.

00:21

i don't expect they'd know what to do to those.

00:21

mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform nao has the necessary optics that for e.g. 'FG2' and fyootoor products, we can include signed board photos.

00:21

biosen, however... seems to be the favoured cunt.

00:21

I am inclined to get some sleep for the night. asciilifeform if you dream tonight of questions to pose to the datacenter re: their ground fault which mght be informative, please forward them.

00:21

nn.

00:21

BingoBoingo: i'ma also sleep shortly, will letcha know if i wake up screaming with a wtf

00:22

leaving the temp/voltage/etc item running ( and will run until further notice . )

00:22

*

asciilifeform bbl

00:23

asciilifeform: When you book your ticket expect more Spanish/Spanglish because I haven't had a sustained spoken conversation in English since early December.

00:33

Before I tuck in I will say 3 is the lower bound for reset events. Based on mod6's original report I suspect more.

~ 21 minutes ~

00:54

Aite, before I tuck in asciilifeform I'll gpggram you all the trivia observations from the weekend trips to the rack to digest with a rested brain.

00:55

!Qlater tell asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0XG9Q/?raw=true

00:55

lobbesbot

BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.

~ 6 hours 17 minutes ~

07:12

lobbes

BingoBoingo: if it helps, I've noticed at least 4 resets (the top 4 results are my recent resets; times are in UTC) >> http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=Quits%3A+lobbes

~ 2 hours 42 minutes ~

09:55

lobbes: ty

09:58

<asciilifeform> hanbot: when was 'this' plox ? << was my whim to start znc back up then after leaving it off for a ~day following http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886701 , no shenanigans implied. i suppose my wordchoice was unfortunate, sorry for alarms.

09:58

Logged on 2019-01-14 01:17 mircea_popescu: doesn't that look suspicious.

10:04

check that out, they ~snap to the hour, too!

10:08

meanwhile, box is up without any interesting observations

10:08

lobbesbot

asciilifeform: Sent 9 hours and 12 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0XG9Q/?raw=true

10:08

guten morgen mircea_popescu hanbot et al

10:08

lobbes: 4th was with my own hands, new kernel emplaced

10:10

heya

10:13

BingoBoingo: i am thinking : let's consider giving all uy1 users an acct on the idle rk , until uy1 is replaced and moved to cold spare.

10:13

they can put e.g. their znc there, at their option.

10:13

can a rk actually run all that ?!

10:14

indeed can, it's a quite substantial box despite appearances.

10:14

(4 cpu cores)

10:14

BingoBoingo: ~in addition~, rather than in place, of their current service, if it wasn't clear

10:15

ah

10:15

this is not even a bad idea, turn iffy situation itno "help drive rk adoption".

10:16

asciilifeform: I'd like to hit the idle Rockchip with another round of contact cleaning first, but this sounds like a plan.

10:16

BingoBoingo: plox to lemme know when ready, ty

10:17

granted i haven't unearthed any direct evidence that uy1 is physically sad, of yet. but imho this is Right Thing.

10:18

asciilifeform: Will clean it this afternoon. Loving the marketing potential that yes, Rockchip will happily run many services so long as the RAM is minded.

10:19

BingoBoingo: and disk.

10:20

for lightweight processes (zncism etc) it's ideal.

10:23

i'm still at a loss re why nobody makes rk, or for that matter any arm box, with upgradeable rams

10:23

remains puzzler.

10:23

( really, ohnoez, socket costs fiddy cents too much ? )

10:26

BingoBoingo et al : re uy1: if it continues humming along, as it presently appears to be, we gotta proclaim a maintenance window and properly stress test the thing, load cpu to max for coupla hrs

10:26

i'd prefer to do this ~after~ the rk is made available to the affected folx.

10:30

This sounds like a plan.

10:32

it is also time to speak of the next crate. and the customary four cargo slots. 1 is to contain a replacement for uy1 ( and ideally will run cuntoo . ) 1 will contain a 1u that holds rk's. this gives 2 1u slots remaining, they can be occupied by colo passengers, if these stand up and wish to ride , or pizarro irons, at BingoBoingo's option.

10:34

why not get moar rks in there ?

10:34

they're not expensive, are they ?

10:34

mircea_popescu: a rk + disk is about 100bux ea.

10:34

they aint unspeakably expensive.

10:35

a 1u can comfortably house 16, per my latest model.

10:35

i'm averse to putting moar than that on 1 ps however.

10:35

uy1 is bad enuff as 'central point of failure', would rather not create moar of'em.

10:37

transport of crate aint exactly a mars mission, when we finally drum up demand and fill up the rk's, next crate can sail in short order.

10:37

a) there's nothing wrong with specialisation (and especially if you figure out how to expand the ram -- which a stock of these gives you incentive to do, ie, specialisation drives competence) ;

10:37

b) the principal moneymaker for pizarro has been its booked stock of iron

10:37

c) unlike commodity gear, rk never gave you trouble.

10:37

mircea_popescu: this is correct, without iron, no moneys

10:38

i meant, pizarro made more money as a financial vehicle, exploiting fx rates, than as an operator.

10:38

mircea_popescu: we did have some headache with the ssd, recall. the new models are in place ( iirc errrybody but mod6 has been swapped ) and seem to run cool to the touch, per BingoBoingo's observations

10:38

right.

10:39

<asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: a rk + disk is about 100bux ea. << There's also a 4GB RAM model which would push the unit price up to ~150 each

10:39

BingoBoingo: let's include a certain number of these.

10:40

what are thery now, 1gb ?

10:40

2

10:40

2GB

10:40

amusingly, the 2 seems the better deal.

10:40

mircea_popescu: it's why i bought'em

10:40

aha.

10:40

they gave unmatched 'bang per buck'

10:40

afaik still unmatched anywhere.

10:41

( not even speaking of 'bang per watt' )

10:41

" this gives 2 1u slots remaining, they can be occupied by colo passengers, will carry rk plants otherwise"

10:41

aha

10:41

that'll take your rk plant to 6 (extant) + 48 additional ?

10:41

let's see if/what passengers appear in next week or two. after that, i'ma begin preparations for rk.

10:42

mircea_popescu: correct

10:42

starting to sound like an isp.

10:43

needless to say, a "we're flyting over 50 rks, gotta fill these THAT WEEK, giving everyone 50% off for 3 months" media event / webhosting forum takeover / etc is de rigueur.

10:43

iirc mod6 has expressed a desire to fly the next crate. if he still wants, can haz; otherwise asciilifeform will fly it.

10:43

gotta prepare both ends of such things.

10:44

<asciilifeform> they gave unmatched 'bang per buck' << Especially when the MySQL storage engine is changed to the WP appropriate option

10:44

~both ends~

10:45

mircea_popescu: absolutely, the time to start beating the drums is nao.

10:45

have a nice sale page, clearly communicate what's going on, drive to it. what do you have, like 6 weeks ?

10:45

<asciilifeform> iirc mod6 has expressed a desire to fly the next crate. if he still wants, can haz; otherwise asciilifeform will fly it. << Given the ben_vulpes courier run I would like mod6's first trip here to be lower stakes. Couriering is a skill.

10:46

BingoBoingo: i dun think there will be such a thing as 'low stakes' trip, unless mod6 wants to take vacation on own coin

10:46

a pizarro-sponsored flight must carry max weight.

10:47

Must carry max weight yes, but having more weight already racked does lower the stakes on subsequent trips.

10:47

as for asciilifeform , can go in mid march at the earliest.

10:47

he has a point there.

10:47

so nine weeks ? ample time.

10:47

and i'd really like, ideally, to not be the only one who knows how to do this.

10:48

BingoBoingo talk to the various webhosting forums etc (with whom you've build by now a relationship, yes ?) how much they want for a site takeover / w/e they do for the big deal advertising.

10:48

asciilifeform: This time, don't saw your toothbrush. I can put together a reception basket with human sized toothbrush.

10:49

BingoBoingo: don't sweat the small details, just nao

10:49

the key end of the hose is the 1 mircea_popescu mentioned.

10:49

mircea_popescu: Will do.

10:50

and sell it like things are sold, atm it's "just a rumour", mentioned here and there, drums up on the usual human-experience-exponential and so on. "anti-usg hosting", come up with some catchy.

10:50

whole orchestra.

10:50

"hilary's worst nightmare", use the woman's picture all ugly or scared or w/e.

10:51

https://assets.rbl.ms/14235407/980x.jpg << no shortage o these.

10:52

Indeed

10:54

It's a relief to get the Pizarro conversation going again instead of having it stuck in just my head

10:54

all it takes is asking.

10:58

oh hm where was that zombie fdr poster mircea_popescu dug up coupla yrs ago

10:58

imho would also make for pretty great photolul for ad.

11:00

trinque

"fuck hillary" is way more relevant to your most likely customer.

11:00

trinque has a point

11:00

quite possibly the current gen of sadforum people, dun even know who was fdr.

11:00

trinque

the "alex jones" crowd is losing hosting left and right

11:00

indeed

11:01

yeah, whining about how "red pillers" or w/e the fuck si the term de jour for inept morons/exterminators singing "i have seen the glory of the bloodletting at the zoo" while driving their beat up truck not reading is one thing. make pretty pictures is another thing.

11:01

nao if they could also be persuaded to part with usg.dns... but i'd be satisfied to teach 'wash hands' , smallpox vaccination can happen after

11:01

asciilifeform the first fucking move is to establish yourself as a domain expert.

11:02

verily

11:02

PART of the reason for 2nd para of http://qntra.net/2019/01/el-chapo-allegedly-used-voip-had-sysadmin-flipped-by-criminal-fbi/ ie guzman hiring an inane moron with a reddit account, is that guzman didn't have how to hire pizarro.

11:02

mircea_popescu: i'm anticipating the whiners where 'you ~said~ you sell uncensored host, but they pulled my godaddy dns omfg!11' item

11:03

what the fuck is a Cristian Rodriguez anyway ?! might as well be schmuck mcsmith.

11:03

asciilifeform so you explain it to them.\

11:03

let them whine here, i'll fucking explain it to them.

11:03

BingoBoingo ^

11:04

mircea_popescu: as i understand , the guzman thing was even lulzier, d00d was hired to run the ~crypto~

11:04

( in the empty skullcase of the orc king, somehow made sense to have a hired hand run his pgptron.. )

11:04

where is he to learn better ?

11:05

"you should have gone with pizarro" "i did this in 2015, where was pizarro ?" "mkay."

11:05

amazon is fucked anyway, the time to break the usg.web is now.

11:06

"here, whole conclave of morons ~can do absolutely nothing~". even if you lose money, you lose money in a way they're worth losing.

11:06

"Starve Amazon/Google/SVCircus" copy tests well

11:07

*

asciilifeform brb,teatime

11:07

trinque

the "we slay incas" thing would do better with an explanation of wtf that means in-world

11:07

short explanation. and short words, in big thick font.

11:09

AHA

11:09

me shall bbl

11:09

*

BingoBoingo prepping for rack dive, excited by what follows

~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~

12:11

meanwhile, in world of entomology, https://archive.is/bJyyo ( piece re 'douchebags', where '...their earnings are equally depressing. The top seven participants in the Facebook data set averaged 0.87 bugs per month, earning an average yearly salary of $34,255; slightly less than what a pest control worker makes in Mississippi.'

~ 23 minutes ~

12:34

and meanwhile, in sunken atlantises : j. von neumann, the afaik last fella to really invent anyffin in re kompyooting, actually devised an interesting application for fast unbiased rng ( which did not exist in his time ). can use it to multiply large numbers with near-total noise immunity, using only an 'and' gate and two comparators.

12:35

you represent the inputs ( any # of'em ) via stochasticizers, i.e. each 1 gets a comparator that eats N bits of rng and outputs a 1 if they represent integer <= the currently latched binary number, 0 otherwise.

12:35

then you feed'em all to a N-input AND gate.

12:36

the output is n1 * n2 * ... n_n , cuz you represented'em as ~probabilities~

12:36

then to get integers back out, you run the process in reverse, via another comparator. it converges to the desired answer in finite ( depending on rng quality ) clock ticks.

12:38

why to do this, may seem a mystery, until realize that noise immunity means that you can use very fast logic elements , given as you aren't much concerned with 100% accuracy over small time period, only convergence.

12:38

so in the end you can multiply e.g. 9000 8192bit ints, with a single gate.

12:40

1 of the reasons i put this in the l0gz is that when i went to dig, turned up that erry attempt to date to do sumthing nontrivial with 'stochastic multiplier' broke teeth against rng quality.

12:41

( if you have ~any correlation in the independent bitstreams , you won't converge . the academiderps tried to get around this by using constructed prng's, had the expected result -- buncha dead trees and 0 working devices )

12:43

it's an interesting 'upside-down world', where, e.g., addition costs ~moar~ than multiplication ( i will leave as exercise, how it is done )

12:49

( in case it aint obvious , you gotta scale the #s, otherwise a even a 128bit multiplitron will take 'geological' time to output 1x1 )

13:04

meanwhile, in a quite hilarious conclusion to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887012 saga : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390&cpage=1#comment-19775 << yarvin throws in the towel.

13:04

Logged on 2019-01-15 00:30 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in darkest lulzafrica, 'Today we’re happy to announce that Urbit’s address space, now called Azimuth, is live on the Ethereum blockchain... We want Urbit to be a reliable, durable, permanent computer that’s simple to use. Today Urbit is still a prototype, not a consumer product. But we’re making great progress'

~ 17 minutes ~

13:21

http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iXGlE/?raw=true << d00d's entire lulzpiece, snapshotted for the l0gz.

~ 33 minutes ~

13:55

meanwhile, on uy1 , highest cpu temp recorded was 50c (10 hrs ago)

13:57

BingoBoingo: i am thinking we oughta install a simple mains voltage logger (i've witnessed in the past, brownouts which took out 1 box ( where current load at the moment happened to exceed what's in the ps caps ) while leaving dozen others untouched.. )

13:57

This could be informative

14:00

BingoBoingo: i'ma dig re price & where to get.

14:01

fwiw i did notice, when peeked into other racks, that some folx had independent ups .

14:01

( unfortunately these are impractical to transport )

~ 56 minutes ~

14:57

BingoBoingo: on contemplation, this is yet another place where rk utterly wins -- it is possible to include a very compact source of backup power, survive fairly long brown/black-outs

15:04

Indeed

15:06

In other news I am satisfied the vacant rk is very clean. Our airflow sensor has also been blown out, tested and rehung on the front door.

15:07

a++

15:08

BingoBoingo: we'll make accts on it by explicit request, from current subscribers of uy1

15:08

( invited to pgp ssh key + any particular reqs to BingoBoingo & asciilifeform )

15:08

plox do ~not~ use same key as on uy1.

15:09

rk is idea for low disk footprint items , e.g. znc.

15:09

*ideal

15:12

^ this is addressed to all uy1 people, i will not list'em explicitly, they know who they are ^

15:12

Datacenter cat is also in good health putting fear into the flying rodents

15:13

also a++

15:25

upstack, gotta revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887223 >> there's no economic way to expand ram on an existing rk, it's similar to the proposition of adding cylinders to an existing bmw engine

15:25

Logged on 2019-01-15 15:37 mircea_popescu: a) there's nothing wrong with specialisation (and especially if you figure out how to expand the ram -- which a stock of these gives you incentive to do, ie, specialisation drives competence) ;

15:25

thing brings out certain # of addr lines to the pcb, and nomoar

15:26

( and even if were spares -- whole thing is baked of bga ic, where even if you invest in reballing machine, you have good odds of thing never booting again if you move the bga )

15:26

that being said, i'd quite like a rk-like box with expandable rams. but it aint happening on the current budget.

15:27

*

asciilifeform brb,teatime

~ 1 hours 40 minutes ~

17:07

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887308 << this is very elegant, earlier statement of the whole "optic crypto machine" thingee

17:07

Logged on 2019-01-15 17:36 asciilifeform: the output is n1 * n2 * ... n_n , cuz you represented'em as ~probabilities~

17:09

but tbh, the "stochastic convergence test" seems to me worth A LOT more than any bs "ent" ultimately meaningless "squares of pi" bs.

↖ ↖

17:09

it's a sort of m-r for rngs.

17:10

(ie, you can construct an infinity of rng strings which'll make a given sct "falsely" converge)

17:13

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887318 << keks. good you got out while it was still worth money.

17:13

Logged on 2019-01-15 18:21 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iXGlE/?raw=true << d00d's entire lulzpiece, snapshotted for the l0gz.

17:22

*

mircea_popescu re-read the comment section, from back in 2013, chuckled at random moron who perceived he can write himself the option to not engage mp saying things at him because (some variant of) "they do not display the right formalism" right smack drab in the middle of a discussion about some magical means for ~machines~ to recognize equivalent-formalisms through... magic.

17:24

stupid all the way down, what fucking turtles.

17:27

how ~the fuck~ is "nock" gonna identify-and-replace-with-jets when ginko417 is manifestly incapable of the very same task ? (or rather, for they psychologically inclined : WHY is it ginko417 imagines dealing with a jet is "nock"'s job ?)

17:27

for exquisite bonus lulz, "jet" is what a romanian speaking slut would say to a romanian speaking drunk moron in a romanian speaking bar, meaning "get the fuck lost".

~ 21 minutes ~

17:49

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887348 << better still , asciilifeform never ~paid~ any moneys for it

17:49

Logged on 2019-01-15 22:13 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887318 << keks. good you got out while it was still worth money.

17:49

( 'paid' a weekend to solve that olympiad thing, was all )

17:51

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887343 << it's hauntingly elegant, and since finding out about it asciilifeform whenever going to sleep thinks 'hmm, how wouldja mod-exp with stochastic..'

17:51

Logged on 2019-01-15 22:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887308 << this is very elegant, earlier statement of the whole "optic crypto machine" thingee

17:51

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887347 << not only this, but to date no rng has actually sufficed (i.e. sufficiently independent bits) to make the thing go in reasonable time

17:51

Logged on 2019-01-15 22:10 mircea_popescu: (ie, you can construct an infinity of rng strings which'll make a given sct "falsely" converge)

17:52

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887345 << this is how i dug it up, actually

17:52

Logged on 2019-01-15 22:09 mircea_popescu: but tbh, the "stochastic convergence test" seems to me worth A LOT more than any bs "ent" ultimately meaningless "squares of pi" bs.

17:53

( and no it aint in 'ent' or 'diehard' or in afaik any pc rng tester, it moar or less demands fpga )

17:54

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887352 << thing was broken on moar or less erry possible level, not only in the arithmetical model

17:54

Logged on 2019-01-15 22:27 mircea_popescu: how ~the fuck~ is "nock" gonna identify-and-replace-with-jets when ginko417 is manifestly incapable of the very same task ? (or rather, for they psychologically inclined : WHY is it ginko417 imagines dealing with a jet is "nock"'s job ?)

17:54

( recall the 'i explicitly dun want it to resemble bitcoin!' item, which then seamlessly morphed into 'we have merged with ethertardium' with somehow straight face )

17:58

'A bunch went to contest winners who solved a trivial Nock problem in 2010.' << didjaknow, trivial

18:00

btw didja know, mircea_popescu , that yarvin has an rsatron in there ? possibly will be remembered as the only rsatron gnarlier/buggier than kochs's, or even microshit's

18:01

i take a kind of perverse entomological interest in sad rsatrons. ( e.g.: bolix, interestingly, had a -- nonconstant time, of course -- bignum stack, but at least it was reasonably compact.. )

18:03

'No one else ever built a purely functional operating system' incidentally also false, the haskell people tried ('house') , with the expected result ( i won't detail, literate reader can guess )

18:04

'What will I do personally? I'll spend more time with my kids. I'll finish reading my 1911 Britannica – I am only on the B's. I have no other long-term plans. ... I am leaving not just the project but the field – no less than Satoshi, or Everett, or Rimbaud ... Will Satoshi weigh in on the next Bitcoin Cash fork? Did Rimbaud fly back from Ethiopia ...' << evidently d00d at least 'took the money and ran'. seems to have worked appr

18:04

ox as well as it did for esr tho, his www already for year or 2 contains a begtron

18:06

'Nock, Hoon and Arvo didn't really rely on anything from 20th-century CS' << lol, aside from coupla GB of unix/c liquishit, and half a GB of ~own~ c liquishit..

18:06

i'ma leave the rest uncommented, there aint much to add i

18:06

mho.

18:10

err, i can't resist a few monumental laffs :

18:10

'Urbit does not use the lambda calculus, an environment or symbol table, or linking. Because it pushes name resolution out of the fundamental interpreter and up into the language, it can play many more namespace juggling tricks. And its build system has no trouble including multiple versions of the same library.' << didjaknow this were a feature?!

18:10

that somebody would ~want~ ?!

18:10

( asciilifeform didnt.. )

18:11

or how about 'Long-term permanence means you can put your ship on a USB stick in a box for 50 years, or 100, or 500, and when you turn it on in a modern interpreter it will upgrade itself and work fine.' << upgrade itself!

18:11

or take 'Permanence also includes security. Except for the on-chain PKI, in which case you're trusting Ethereum, you shouldn't yet trust Urbit's security at all. Sorry!'

18:12

typical dog who shat on the floor, has moar remorse than this fella.

18:19

pons & fleischmann imho are models of respectability compared with yarvin. ( and wasted 9000x less time of thinking folx.. )

~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~

19:37

asciilifeform by now the moron's studious ignorance is pretty much his only salient feature. same as that other y schmuck.

19:39

anyway. on a long enough time horizon all socialism aka militant stupidity converges. of course yarvin merges with ethertards, what's there to distinguish them besides historical accident (ie, the exact converse of timeline, the thing time washes out)

19:41

but rimbaud, keks. prostu' daca nu-i fudul...

19:42

anyway, satoshi did weigh in on the first "fork". back in 2015. http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ has the details.

19:44

mircea_popescu: to the extent anons can even speak... i dun recall shitoshit ~signing~ anyffing post-'09

19:45

( come to think of it , i dun think i ever even saw a pgp sig of his coad turds.. )

19:45

right ? it's an absurd standard, dood never did such while living.

19:46

anyway, item quoted/discussed is authentic, precisely equally authentic to any pre 0.3 bitcoin version.

19:46

i.e. as authentic as the Shards of the Troo Cross lol

19:46

come to think of it, wtf did he even bother with pgp pub.

19:47

( what, if anyffin, was signed with it..? )

19:47

~nothing.

19:48

was used for encryption, not for authentication.

19:48

(the view that gpg aka koch-rsa leaks bits via signature isn't entirely dispelled even today)

19:48

good % of pgp use historically -- resembled the medieval 'plague amulets'. y'know, the one where scrap of leather with word 'arsenicum' (cuz buying actual arsenic costs tuppence, and scrap -- one )

19:49

mircea_popescu: doubt that it has anyffin to do with the reluctance to use it ~at all~ displayed by some pubkey-as-arsenicum-amulet folx

19:49

sure.

19:50

( not even to mention the fact that -- rare, for a kochism -- the problem dun even exist in stock gpg, which defaulted to 2 subkeys, 1 for sigs and 1 for encipherments )

19:50

this is why, tho.

19:52

anyway, am i the only one grated by just how much of a cop-out this "kids" thing became ? "oh, im going to play with my kids, which is to say you're OBLIGATED to believe my life has some sort of meaning".

19:52

i can play with some kids for the cost of a car ride to the park, what's that do ?

19:52

some sort of accomplishment ?

19:52

it is difficult to dispell even the most outrageous lulhypothesis re koch-gpg. sorta what makes it 'speshul', what, 40MB of ???.

19:53

mircea_popescu: i suspect it was a veiled laugh-to-the-bank

19:53

somehow these morons went from 1980s alec baldwin's "go home and play with your kids" alt-fuck you you're a total waste of space to curtis yarvin's 2020s "i'll go home and play with my kids", direct restatement of "fuck you guise, i'm going home"

19:53

'bahaha, idjits, i dun have to work'

19:53

buncha fat useless dorks already...

19:53

esr had a similar one, where 'surprised by wealth' or what was it.

19:54

asciilifeform none of them "has" to work, dood, wtf, they live in america, the gutter of all laze. that dorky moron who was "going to take over holywood", aka http://trilema.com/2014/i-hope-they-serve-beer-in-hell/ ended up shipwrecked in the arms of some jewish princess, raising her kids.

19:55

if you look about, ~all these loud and "successful" narcissistic dorks end up in the ~same arrangement, rescued by marriage of convenience.

19:55

not speaking of work in herr newton's sense. or in 19th sense of 'useful commercial activity'. but in re 'show up to office & punch clock' one.

19:55

!#s Andreessen

19:55

45 results for "Andreessen", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=Andreessen

19:55

^ same EXACT algo.

19:56

asciilifeform they punch the juicer button or w/e it is cuckdads do.

19:56

ftr i have nfi re his marriage, iirc it wasn't to heiress or princess or etc.

19:56

some chix from oklahoma.

19:56

i don't understand how these misfortunate kids are supposed to respect the human failures using them for props.

19:56

iirc a 'theatre slut'

19:59

yarvin wins a kind of triple crown of rot -- not only perpetrated the urbit thing, but to get the necessary 'letter from hitler', did a kind of soft-recantation of his earlier 'rezistenta prin cultura' blogisms

19:59

teh withdrawal into biology historically works way the fuck better for women than for men.

19:59

( spoiler : didn't help him much moar than schrodinger's letter to hitler, had helped schrodinger )

20:01

for men, 'withdraw into biology' means , in practice, to feed the toe fungus.

20:01

a la 'human mushroom' rms.

20:01

you recall that thing ?

20:01

i wanted to put it on trilema, dun recall if i ever did or not, but anyway, quite the item

20:01

it was the man's shining moment!11

20:02

it was something else.

20:02

happened on live public camera, afaik not the least bit disputed.

20:02

was not disputed, no.

20:04

i cant speak for other folx, but asciilifeform's 'third eye' re rms opened on the day that he spat on that letter re glibc

20:05

which was this ?

20:06

!#s libnss

20:06

59 results for "libnss", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=libnss

20:06

this was back when asciilifeform had nfi why trb wouldn't statically link, not yet found drepper's 'gifts'

20:07

but localized the boojum to 'libnss' (which turned out to be component of glibc, and not removable)

20:07

then wrote to rms; who gave 0 answr

20:08

http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-02#1083440 heh

20:08

Logged on 2015-04-02 01:16 mircea_popescu: "/home/stas/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/include/boost/asio/detail/impl/socket_ops.ipp:2900: warning: Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking"

20:08

iirc later , someone else among us ( possibly mircea_popescu ) also wrote, and d00d finally replied with ~'let'em eat cake'

20:10

it'll be so fucking splendid to link a bitcoin without glibc jaysus

20:10

lol it's a 2015 closed case

20:10

( 'rotor' & descendants, on musl )

20:11

great times.

20:13

point was re rms. trouble with the man is, i dun think he is stupid, in the usual sense, he appears to quite deliberately think that cultivated fungus on ~coad~ is a valid defense against 'microshit will steal'. hence gcc, autoconf, other marvels.

20:13

prattled for 30 yrs re 'four freedoms', but forgot '-1st' -- 'to fit the thing in head'

20:14

or, alternatively, not forgot, but explicitly rejected, i've nfi.

20:15

my personal "this is a moron" realisaiton occured upon reading some nonsense about how "more fair" division of proceeds from creative fields was to pool all the results and issue them back out by some log function, ie guy with 1mn fans gets 6 units, guy with 10 fans gets 1 unit, something like this.

20:15

it's not even wrong, it's simply anti-right wtf.

20:17

he has a number of pieces like this, and they contradict not only sense but ea. other

20:17

most of the material, i suspect, postdates the transition to mushroobm

20:17

it aint tryin' to make sense, particularly.

20:17

iirc mircea_popescu had a piece where 'empty people make noises to fill the void in their skulls' or how did it go

20:18

yeah well.

20:19

rms held on to microphone long past his sell-by date by playing a sort of zhirinovsky against background of microshit empire. but iirc we had already this thrd.

20:22

( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1768064 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493483 , possibly elsewhere )

20:22

Logged on 2018-01-09 23:26 asciilifeform: dunno that rms actually ~did~ anything in past 20+ yr. the man is a living flag.

20:22

Logged on 2016-06-30 16:00 asciilifeform: rms is tragicomic precisely ~because~ he won't let go of fundamentally usgistic thinking

20:23

+ http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-29#1417904 .

20:23

Logged on 2016-02-29 03:00 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you are still thinking of rms as a self-aware creature, having a thought process

20:24

finally found the orig, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-09-27#847970 , fwiw.

20:24

Logged on 2014-09-27 17:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: notice that rms will not speak of lisp to this day. the demise of lmi cut him off from the genuine machines (there was no possibility of baking one by his lonesome, or with his band of ragged dervishes, any more than they could launch a mars mission)

20:26

if only soviet union lasted a decade or two more and had better notions re cs, he could have been so happy. imagine -- re-doing emacs FOR STALIN

20:26

stalin croaked in '53, and the battery he charged, ran down in '83 or so

20:27

i suppose he could be redoing pdp 'its' for gorby..

20:27

sorta what he ended up doing in reality.

20:28

managed to reproduce the late-sovok 'we'll make cheap broken clones of their shit! where you gotta reseat the cards nightly! that'll show'em!' engineering culture that asciilifeform's father toiled in. without even leaving his rathole.

20:29

generational fashions are something else.

20:30

the 'well of stupid' is always right there beside chair , to fall into, whenever one 'wants'. no need to get on airplane or learn to speak orc..

~ 22 minutes ~

20:52

*

asciilifeform bbl,maffs

21:02

*

mod6 reads

21:11

Well, UY1 is still up, and looks like no causation found for the reboots/crashes. Very strange. Best to keep an eye on it. It most certainly did reboot however.

21:12

When I noticed that my blog, and hanbot's, etc were down... I logged into UY1 and found that it had been up for only 50 minutes at the time.

21:12

Then I manually started up apache and mysql so the blogs would be back working again. But then it went down again, perhaps 20 minutes or so later.

21:13

And then when it came back up, I again restarted the services, and then a while later, it crashed again. And perhaps another time as well.

21:13

Thanks for looking over it asciilifeform!

21:16

mod6 ~30hrs nao, avg tmp. ~48C

21:16

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887248 << Yeah, I kinda missed my window here. I'm not sure when I'll be able to get a chance to come down there. Perhaps sometime this year yet, but will look into it and discuss it again at a later time.

21:16

Logged on 2019-01-15 15:43 asciilifeform: iirc mod6 has expressed a desire to fly the next crate. if he still wants, can haz; otherwise asciilifeform will fly it.

21:16

asciilifeform: Ah, ok.

21:16

mod6: not missed, contemplated flight is mid-march

21:16

One thing that's been plaguing me irl for about three weeks here is the finding that I have a rotten rim joist.

21:17

this is painful repair?

21:17

*

asciilifeform not expert

21:18

In short, yes, very. Especially in the winter.

21:19

what happens if wait till thaws ?

21:19

Even the house may need to be put on jacks to complete the repair. I've been discussing with three different carpenters on how they would do the job and approximately how much it would cost.

21:20

Needless to say, and I'll spare you all the deets, but it's gonna put a dent in mod6's budget for a few months at a minimum.

21:20

this sorta thing is wai i lease'em

21:21

asciilifeform: Actually, it'll be better if I do, I'm sure. Since all three guys suggest fixing this from the outside (thankfully, from the inside would be 1000s of more $), if we wait until it's warm there's a way less chance of breaking the siding on the house when removing it.

21:22

wooden construction, this is the sad of it.

21:22

^

21:22

Once the siding is removed then there might be an easy way to get at the outer joist and pull it off -- which runs the entire length of the frame along the base. Now there could be more rotten in there, or it ~could~ just be the rim joist, but won't know until it's all apart.

21:22

mircea_popescu has it. brick & stone people.

21:22

you'll regret it otherwise.

21:23

mod6: out of curiosity, what was the symptom that pointed to the item ? floor cratered ?

21:23

:] I was just about to say...

21:23

damn.

21:23

well, wood has its place, but a) it's very knowledge-intensive -- notice how some shipwrights make ships that never rot, some others -- rot in a month. and b) by the time you're actually building complexly enough to even have rim joists etc... wooden construction's intended for hunting lodge not townhouse.

21:24

This all started because we need a new door, it's old as shit, and all the weather stripping is bad, etc. So of course, this isn't std door size. So I paid some good money to have a custom one made to size. When the carp came out to install it, the first thing he did was pull off one piece of molding, and stuck his file down in the bottom area where that joist is located, and it pushed right through.

21:25

mircea_popescu: on top of this, you oughta see what passes for 'wood' in gringolandia..

21:25

So I had him stop work right then and there, and then had to get the other carps in to assess. So once the rim joist is fixed, then I can finally get a new door.

21:25

asciilifeform this is what i mean. i saw 300 yo wooden construction, made by ro mountain folk. but that wood...

21:25

im not even sure how they got it, tbh.

21:26

europistan used to have a++ wood

21:26

This is true, if you have masters of wood, then you get high quality finished product, but this stuff is shit.

21:26

evidently.

21:26

used it up, to sail to newworld, where... sad wood

21:26

there's splendid wood in new world, are you kidding me ? no cedar can match redwood.

21:26

except, of course, if every pleb got redwood house...

21:27

afaik ~nuffin built from redwood

21:27

rich people's parquet.

21:27

certainly nuffin asciilifeform ever likely to set foot in, at any rate

21:27

yea

21:27

Some of the log cabins that I've seen in the US are pretty nice tbh, but they need maint! Need to be scraped & stained every few years, etc.

21:28

"If you take care of her, she takes care of you" or something.

21:28

Anyway, my original plan was actually to go down to UY this week.

21:29

it was never obv to asciilifeform wai usa builds from rubbish wood + cardboard + aluminum rather than ferrocement like other sovshitholes

21:29

mod6: oh hey

21:29

https://www.muzeul-etnografic.ro/ro/obiective-muzeale << sampler. apparently this exists online.

21:29

But I put that all aside back in November. And then the whole door/joist thing started. But I'll look into when I might be able to get it together, but may be even after alf's time frame. However, will advise as soon as I know.

21:30

mircea_popescu: i went to 'banat' mus. but i think it was a shoemaker-era eszats

21:30

took chet there personally ; she got to touch everything ; at the end hands so full of splinters i spent an hour digging them out.

21:30

*ersatz

21:31

"Joagăr hidraulic" = water powered sawmill

21:31

at banat there was buncha vintage wooden tech, milling gears etc

21:32

right, hammer/splints powered oil presses, stuff like that

21:32

Anyway Gentlemen, thanks for listening. Wanted to stop in and let you know I was reading logs while I could today -- I'm running on nil sleep and today was like an 18 hour day. So I'm gonna drop out and get some rest.

21:32

mod6: goto bed pleez

21:32

I'll stop back in tomorrow when I have the chance. :] Have a good evening.

21:32

nighty mod6

21:33

asciilifeform because they don't believe in the oppresive multi-generartional patriarchal home.

21:33

"they wanna be free"

21:33

"freedom" of the hallucinated optionality flavour has costs.

21:33

flea as in fleadom.

21:36

it's hilarious, the hovel i'm in, at least has steel frames. nearby they recently built whole street of 100% cardboard/plastic , 'ONLY low 800s!' reads the billboard. 800k orcbux, that is.

21:36

wtf.

21:37

worse deal than "a college education"

21:37

that fresh pile o'printola gotta go somewhere, neh

21:37

and that's apparently where.

~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~

23:20

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886473 << wd! i signed it, sitting in yer mod queue.

23:20

Logged on 2019-01-13 17:54 billymg: !Q later tell hanbot mp-wp patches have been updated: http://billymg.com/2019/01/minor-mp-wp-patch-updates/ -- the only "\ No newline at end of file" strings you should find in .svg refs patch are from before part of the diff (i.e. file diffed had no newline at the end)

23:20

!!rate billymg 1 Thorough MP-WP patchworker.

23:20

deedbot

Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OwcBB/?raw=true

23:21