Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-10-07 | 2017-10-09 →
00:24 mats saudis join turks in s-400 purchases
00:24 mats washington must be glowering
~ 4 hours 33 minutes ~
04:58 lobbes !Qhelp
04:58 lobbesbot lobbes: http://lobbesblog.com/lobbesbotcommands
04:59 lobbes !~later tell mircea_popescu ^^ 'help sexpr' and 'help json' also working. lobbesbot has been brought up to spec
04:59 jhvh1 lobbes: The operation succeeded.
~ 2 hours 43 minutes ~
07:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722492 maybe tina's looking for a new home.
07:42 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 01:58 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568&cpage=4#comment-18272 << in other strange.
07:43 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722496 << bwahaha, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=private+internet+access is quickly becoming a portion of the gosplan "gdp" innit.
07:43 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 02:02 asciilifeform: in other lullies, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nsawagenhoneypot.jpg << found on washington metro train today
07:44 mircea_popescu is that up left item supposed to be the pennsylvania bell ? or rather some ad-hoc, tesla times large inductor ? perhaps some nuclear sikrit ?
07:45 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722501 << pretty weird, middle east tensions apparently resolved through tribute ? i can make no sense of it whatsoever.
07:45 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 04:24 mats: washington must be glowering
07:46 shinohai The sound of that bell instantly alerts patriotfags and sends Cuban diplomats running, complaining of sonic attacks.
07:46 mircea_popescu oh i see
07:47 mircea_popescu is it patriotic to leak the dnc's self-important bullshit leading to the republic sinking clinton ?
07:47 mircea_popescu !Qhelp sexpr
07:47 lobbesbot mircea_popescu: http://lobbesblog.com/lobbesbotcommands.sexpr
07:47 mircea_popescu lobbes cool deal, grats on being FIRST!\
~ 22 minutes ~
08:10 * spyked finally processed ~a week's worth of logs. hi all!
08:12 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718287 <-- would buy, esp. if custom pcb cannot be avoided (and I suspect this is the case).
08:12 a111 Logged on 2017-09-29 16:39 asciilifeform wonders whether anybody would actually buy a generic fpgatronic packet eater-shitter
08:12 mircea_popescu lol wd.
08:14 mircea_popescu as it happens i was JUST reading http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/#selection-549.0-549.226 which is eerily apropos.
08:16 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718769 <-- afaik ubb ran a "digitalization" program for library. but they prolly won't make those public, eh?
08:16 a111 Logged on 2017-09-30 19:14 mircea_popescu: sorry asciilifeform . all i have are my own notes, which are as all hand notes useless without hte backing of the library of origin (in this case, the universitary library of cluj). teh interwebs dun seem to have a "here's the list of trotsky letters".
08:17 mircea_popescu here's the problem of ourdemocracy : if people are allowed to misperceive they "have choices" and feed this hallucination out of the field of choices they do not have, you end up with the sexy problem, whereby linear cost encounters unreasonably power-law distributed benefit.
08:17 mircea_popescu so yes, they digitized the "sexy" parts.
08:17 mircea_popescu you take my meaning ?
08:18 spyked yeah, thought this is probably the case
08:19 spyked (read through the old newspapers at some point. I think it was through Trilema piece?)
08:21 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1719047 <-- lol! this reminds me of a horatiu malaele piece (Romanian actor/comedian), "doua vaci". wait, it was on the interwebz (I should translate it anyway at some point)
08:21 a111 Logged on 2017-10-01 04:06 mircea_popescu: "If pet food companies used the same business model as startups: Jim creates a dog food factory and gives away dog food for free. 450 million dogs line up for free dog food. Purina Dog Chow understands that non-paying dog food consumers are currency, and buys Jim’s factory for $42 per dog." << in other historical elaineo lulz.
08:22 mircea_popescu spyked such as in eg http://trilema.com/2011/sa-ne-agitam-putin-pe-tema-notatiei-limbii-romane and etc yes.
08:22 mircea_popescu spyked probably the peak of his work huh ? see if you get that gherman fellow to read it once you translate it!
08:23 spyked http://www.220.ro/umor-romanesc/Horatiu-Malaele-2-Vaci/nUSRHOCJEP/ <-- ro. only, unfortunately; also buried under piles of shitads, but I salvaged the videofile.
08:24 spyked good idea. will give it a shot
08:27 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-03#1720147 <-- whatabout ol' zamyatin? We was not bad imo.
08:27 a111 Logged on 2017-10-03 13:34 mircea_popescu: even exists in early anglo stuff, christ resurrector, christ almighty etc. though the vein exhausted itself readily and apparently without leaving much trace. i guess in the same way "everyone" knows of bedwetter's 1984 but nobody read point counterpoint, notwithstanding that huxley is the important kid in that class, not fucking blair.
08:28 mircea_popescu how is zamytatin a british writer ?
08:29 mircea_popescu and for that matter how is pulp fiction part of literature now.
08:29 spyked wasn't, but wrote about "big brother" before it was cool, neh?
08:31 mircea_popescu i guess the argument could be made, but what's it pay ?
08:32 mircea_popescu there's a petulent dork going about on twitter about he "wrote about bitcoin before it was cool". i suspect the whole "cypherpunk" group of kanzure s secretly hold the same belief, that they're relevant through their failure.
08:32 mircea_popescu you see some value in this ?
08:35 spyked same value I see in "propuneri de masuri pentru imbunatatirea [...]". historical.
08:36 mircea_popescu sure.
08:36 mircea_popescu i would agree that zamyatin is a brilliant pamphleteer and an interesting ethnological/"historical" source.
08:41 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722496 << heh i was marveling at the same ad couple of days ago, which i assume means they are all over the trains. i wonder if it's sunlight foundation project
08:41 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 02:02 asciilifeform: in other lullies, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nsawagenhoneypot.jpg << found on washington metro train today
08:44 BingoBoingo From the "Why not make the trilema re-read of the now a surprise files" https://archive.is/pPEfc
08:44 phf nope, it was started by john tye, https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/meet-john-tye-the-kinder-gentler-and-by-the-book-whistleblower/. i suppose he should be classified as a chair shuffler
08:45 spyked mircea_popescu, I'm not sure how I would evaluate it other than by looking at the "boy has no aspirations of his own; boy meets girl; boy gets in trouble; boy gets face stomped by boot" trope that's repeated throughout dystopian novels; there's probably more to it than that, but if there is, I'm not equipped with the literary baggage to see it. Orwell is fashionable nowadays because pantsuit equates Trump with big brother, and... so
08:45 spyked what?
08:45 phf BingoBoingo: is that archive.is link working for you? i've been getting routing resolution errors from cloudflare, pretty consistently part few months
08:45 mircea_popescu spyked better error messages.
08:46 BingoBoingo phf: It is working at the moment
08:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo wait, what ?
08:46 phf "You've requested a page on a website (archive.is) that is on the Cloudflare network. Cloudflare is currently not routing the requested domain (archive.is). There are two potential causes of this:"
08:46 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: For the joy of seeing an underlinked classic load. http://trilema.com/2014/gotta-love-that-negro-speak/
08:47 mircea_popescu phf ahgahaha
08:47 mircea_popescu there goes eh.
08:47 mircea_popescu i hope we all got zips.
08:47 mircea_popescu also fwiw, i see it.
08:47 BingoBoingo "That’s just motherfuckin’ mother nature" (TM)(R)
08:48 phf well, i've been getting that error for the past two months. while there was still a heavy archive.is exchange in the logs, os i thought it's something to do with russia. i'm still getting it in u.s. though :o
08:48 phf so i wonder if my machine has been fingerprinted somehow
08:50 phf oh never mind false alert, i have an explicit archive.is host in my hosts file
08:52 phf it was confusing because i was getting legitimate cloudflare issues all the while i was in russia. now i wonder if it's some dns "firewall" propagation issue
08:53 mircea_popescu i don't get it. so you had a specific ip, which used to work, but now they changed it and instead of failing they self-advertise ?
08:56 spyked ftr, I have archive.is in hostsfile with a different IP than the one currently returned by DNS, and not getting a cloudflare page.
08:57 phf my specific ip was a cloudflare ip 104.28.25.2. current dig for archive.is resolves to 195.123.218.180, which is a netherlands "mobicom ltd" range. i suspect that archive.is took themselves off cloudflare in the last some months, so now i'm hitting cloudflare proxy servers and they are complaining that the host: is no longer served
08:57 phf spyked: what ip do you have?
08:58 spyked in hosts, the one you mentioned (195.123.218.180), while host archive.is returns 94.242.57.138
08:58 phf odd, that last one is russian, "ooo fishnet" :)
08:58 mircea_popescu phf i see the same ip as you do.
08:59 phf cloud!
08:59 mircea_popescu spyked seems you're poisoned ?
08:59 mircea_popescu that 94 thing isn't anywhere.
08:59 phf spyked: are you in u.k.?
09:00 mircea_popescu the sudden silence of omg.
09:01 spyked phf, nope. ro. so... let's try some more dns servers.
09:02 phf because the ip address is russian, but registered to a u.k hosting provider, redcentric
09:03 shinohai Weirdly enough when I dig archive.is I get:
09:03 shinohai ;; ANSWER SECTION:
09:03 shinohai archive.is. 201 IN A 84.22.118.22
09:06 mircea_popescu this dns thing...
09:07 spyked dig through Google DNS: 91.235.136.108; dig through romtelecom DNS: 91.228.152.189; so yeah, mircea_popescu might be on to something here. spyed flushes dns caches.
09:09 mircea_popescu well, in other lulz, apparently it's 91.228.152.189 in india.
09:09 mircea_popescu and 88.99.177.114 in brazil.
09:09 mircea_popescu phf i dun think they got off cloudflare tbh, this looks like exactly the sort of crap.
09:11 mircea_popescu 94.242.57.138 in mexico.
09:21 spyked speaking of cloud: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1720904 <-- lulz. SGX is ripe with side channels. progz can leak data through page faults (and any other "exceptional" interaction with OS, basically).
09:21 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 00:12 ben_vulpes: > Finally, we abuse Intel SGX to hide the attack entirely from the user and the operating system, making any inspection or detection of the attack infeasible.
09:26 mircea_popescu rife.
09:27 * mircea_popescu sits here trying to remember the name of the irrelevant dork with the guns. after a while the best lead i have is "hacker lexicon" was it ? google produces nothing but wired crap ; if treated with a -wired sprinking, suddenly catb.org "jargon file" is top result.
09:28 mircea_popescu why does wired exist again ?
09:28 * spyked liked ripe moar. as in, full of low-hanging fruit
09:28 mircea_popescu oh, to try and parasitize google-reality ? just like any other zynga facebookism ? awww..
09:28 mircea_popescu spyked ok, but there's no such thing as "ripe with".
09:28 mircea_popescu if it's ripe it's ripe.
09:29 mircea_popescu and for that matter rife, as in "rife with fleas" is how english says "full of low hanging fruit".
09:40 spyked ty for explanation, mircea_popescu. oddly, it seems there's no strong etymological relation between the two. (ripe's related to reap, rape; rife, just Germanic for abundancy?)
09:40 mircea_popescu somethinglike that.
~ 20 minutes ~
10:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722595 << esr ?
10:01 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 13:27 mircea_popescu sits here trying to remember the name of the irrelevant dork with the guns. after a while the best lead i have is "hacker lexicon" was it ? google produces nothing but wired crap ; if treated with a -wired sprinking, suddenly catb.org "jargon file" is top result.
10:02 mircea_popescu yeah fished him out eventually.
10:02 asciilifeform aite
10:02 mircea_popescu assistence went "you don't remember esr ?" and i went "what would i remember him for ?" and they went "is this a bit ?"
10:03 mircea_popescu no it's not a fucking bit. even if i sometimes sound just like a character, it's purely fucking accident!
10:04 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1720982 <-- considering this as a "learn Ada" project. will share code once I have minimum item worth of showing (processing r5rs and tinyscheme meanwhile)
10:04 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 02:17 asciilifeform: however it would very conspicuously rock , imho, if one of you folx did this, instead of waiting.
10:05 asciilifeform neato spyked . keep in mind that you gotta use the ada subset displayed in ffa.
10:06 phf spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory
10:07 asciilifeform 'small pieces' is pretty good b00k
10:09 * spyked is going through Kogge's book at the moment, incidentally. much lower level, but it should help on Lisp internals.
10:09 phf spyked: i'd also recommend staying away from continuations, they are a cute hack and flow out of some of the classical scheme interpreter designs (i.e. CPS transform), but they are not very useful in production. instead i'd go for a tagbody that gets compiled to a bunch of jmps. in practice tagbody solves 99% of cont problems
10:10 phf http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/s_tagbod.htm
10:10 spyked anyway, I have much of Scheme in head. I'm looking at tinyscheme mostly to figure out what "subset of r5rs" they've implemented. though I'm expecting tinyscheme subset isn't necessarily the same as tmsr-needed subset.
10:11 mircea_popescu in other fucking lulz : http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Paper/1285929.aspx (original title was "beyond the centralized mindset")
10:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i see eggog
10:11 mircea_popescu that'd be the point now wouldn't it.
10:12 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/the-sexy-problem-formalized/ << Trilema - The sexy problem, formalized
10:12 asciilifeform aa
10:12 mircea_popescu https://llk.media.mit.edu/papers/archive/decentralized/ if you care for some reason. typical mit ocean-toeing.
10:12 phf spyked: keep in mind that all the lispers here are common lisp programmers, so a ~practical~ scripting lisp would be LISP-family themed, rather than an explicit scheme. that's my personal experience with trying to get useful things out of shiva: having to write a bunch of "missing" hyperspec functions. asciilifeform said something similar in the past
10:13 mircea_popescu was candi_lustt cmucl or what was it ?
10:13 phf sbcl
10:13 mircea_popescu aha k.
10:15 mircea_popescu possibly worth linking the s400 thing : https://breakingdefense.com/2017/10/saudis-rock-us-alliance-say-theyll-buy-russias-top-plane-killer-s-400/
10:15 phf fwiw all our production lisp runs on sbcl, including btcbase. as much as i'm pimping cmucl, it's not "modern" enough to host a website on unix. i still think it's a better target for a hypothetical on the iron common lisp
10:16 mircea_popescu phf if you had a blog and time you could sit down to do the whole discussion of that so as to inform future policymaking above and beyond simple amoebic continuation.
10:17 spyked phf ty for lisp in small pieces reference. will look through it.
10:18 mircea_popescu " “The Saudi’s will not be able to link the S-400 with Saudi’s current (US and Europe-sourced) infrastructure, nor will they be able to connect the S-400 with US systems." << says who the everloving fuck.
10:18 phf i've started writing blog posts to "toughen my hand", but it's rough going, i'll add it to the list of things to write about
10:19 mircea_popescu phf hand mollifies in solitude. to toughen must expose.
10:28 mircea_popescu oh, and in random romanian learnings of today, http://trilema.com/2010/care-sunt-iq-tau/
10:29 mircea_popescu if you can read the list so it sounds like a poem, your romanian pronounciation is probably acceptable.
10:31 asciilifeform apparently that easy huh
10:31 mircea_popescu romanian is read as written!
10:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's www 'cheats' by omitting the orc letterz
10:31 mircea_popescu ehehe
10:32 mircea_popescu I suppose i could do a phonetics of this.
10:32 mircea_popescu why the hell not, the girls are worth the trouble. brb.
10:32 asciilifeform word for girl vs face say
10:33 asciilifeform differ by an orc glyf
10:36 mircea_popescu tru.
~ 33 minutes ~
11:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2010/care-sunt-iq-tau/#comment-123116
11:11 asciilifeform wassis
11:11 spyked lulz!
11:12 asciilifeform oh hey
11:21 asciilifeform speaking of ro, http://perevod99.blogspot.ru/2011/08/blog-post_23.html << ru pro linguist with some decades of ro habitation, various lulzy posts re subj and other.
11:22 asciilifeform ( or possibly i misread re habitation. but still fountain of lulz. )
11:22 mircea_popescu o hey
11:23 mircea_popescu is the kak ?!?! tot acolo joke rendered ?
11:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-21#1329338 << guess what, it's in the logs.
11:23 a111 Logged on 2015-11-21 18:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw ever told you the joke of the muscovite trying to take a shit in bucharest ?
11:24 asciilifeform aayes
11:24 mircea_popescu (cac in romanian being, obviously, off the caco cacare latin root)
11:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ftr it was in plenum of the parliament thingee.
11:34 * asciilifeform went on a tr kick and noticed that dulap is a turkish, i.e. dolap ( crate )
11:36 mircea_popescu also fellow misrepresents the failure of the 1989 bucharest meeting. the events flew more or less thus : timisoara rebelled, ceausescu verbally ordered armed repression, on the basis of some discussion, but (most likely deliberately) omitted to actually issue the proper paperwork. the war minister killed himself. ceausescu ordered a meeting organised in bucharest, to announce (in the dead of a bitter winter, without proper he
11:36 mircea_popescu ating in most homes) a list of easements, the chief buttress of which being an extra 100 lei allowed to pregnant mothers (about 1 dollar in black market rates of the time). then the people were dismissed, and they started to leave, but for some entirely to this day unknown reason they were called back. except, they DIDNT go back in order, which means the politruks didn't know who's who.
11:36 mircea_popescu THEN it exploded.
11:36 mircea_popescu there's no "small voice".
11:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep.
11:37 asciilifeform why would fuhrer deliberately omit the paperwork
11:37 mircea_popescu anyway. classical ceausescu regime "demonstrations" were organised very much on the ddr bank model, where you could eventually find the address of every single byte.
11:38 mircea_popescu but you need the array to do that.
11:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform because furher was a chickenshit ? like any other 90yo ?
11:38 mircea_popescu who knows.
11:38 asciilifeform gorby wasn't even 60 and already chicken
11:38 asciilifeform ( and/or bought )
11:39 mircea_popescu ceausescu was not a gallant sort of brave fellow. during a 1977 miners' revolt (they beat up the commie locals etc) he went there and very much shat it.
11:39 mircea_popescu he was, however, fundamentally brave, in that what he told teh us style "judges" at his "trial" was that he'd much rather be dead.
11:40 asciilifeform this last part is well-known
11:41 asciilifeform in ru sphere it often is chalked up to the proverbial 'дедушка старый - ему всё равно'
11:41 asciilifeform rather than bravery
11:41 mircea_popescu possibly.
11:41 mircea_popescu still, how man faces death is a hard to paper over factor.
11:43 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTTVfid33yY << the well publicized moment of "wtf is going on here" with rando politruk going "silence silence" in the background.
11:43 mircea_popescu "alo" being what you say in a phone.
11:44 shinohai !~translate so to en oogi boogi nigga nigger
11:44 jhvh1 shinohai: charges associated wound nigga nigger
11:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lol is that the sniper-roof
11:45 mircea_popescu possibly.
11:45 mircea_popescu shinohai lol!
11:46 shinohai ^ I heard the above was edited by sjw on Google translate. It used to be "Take a look at the nigger"
11:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, it's a great postmodern moment you know, failed mangod and his broken phoneline to reality. "hello ? hello ? *mutters under breath* this is a provocation"
11:47 mircea_popescu ("provocation", in ourdemocracy lingo of the time, is what you called enemy maneuvers.)
11:49 mircea_popescu (because of reasons discussed in http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-ideal-social-systems-reprint/ socialisms can't have categorical terms, defined in the normal manner, but must always include the ethical color of all words in the words. so "movement" becomes either provocation (bad) or progres (good) and so following for everything, stalin's cup is named by a different cupword than hitler's self-same identical cup)
11:50 asciilifeform aufklärung!
11:53 mircea_popescu rather.
12:02 mircea_popescu anyway, there's a pile of disinfo and general crap surrounding the events. as an example : on 2-3 dec gorbachev hung out with bush on a soviet ship. on 4th, there was the wasaw pact meeting. gorbachev was well excited of whatever, the new bulgarian (mladenov, his college pal) and generally the western press coverage.
12:02 mircea_popescu he wrote bucharest a general letter about it, proposing to explain what happened on the 4th. ceausescu responded that unless they have a private meeting he's not coming altogether.
12:03 mircea_popescu this was reported (via the entirely irrelevant "sources" of talbot, beshloss & co) as "the agitation of stalinist tirant" at warsaw, "unhappy with the us-euro offensive to liquidate communism".
12:04 mircea_popescu in point of fact, ceausescu refused to sign off on some paper establishing 20 years after the fact that the invasion of czechoslovakia was a mistake. for the fucking obvious reason that he condemned the russians at the time, and according to readily forgotten "consensus" at the time, at no small personal risk.
12:05 mircea_popescu and he also wasn't impressed with gorbachev;s verbiage as to "disarmament", seeing how romania was spending about 3% of pib on arms in the 85-90 5year plan, whereas ussr had never went under 30% yet.
12:05 mircea_popescu and so on.
12:07 asciilifeform very easy to 3 instead of 30 when you dun gotta do the rocket, n00kz, etc
12:07 mircea_popescu no argument there.
12:08 mircea_popescu but you have to also compare and contrast with romania's declared, and tirelessly promoted official philosophy of pace and "unmingling in internal affairs of sovereign states".
12:09 mircea_popescu guy never saw himself as much more of a su ally than saudis see themselves us allies i dun suspect.
12:09 asciilifeform possibly fancied himself tito ?
12:11 mircea_popescu something. consider actual live events : gorbachev says at the meeting, once they move on past his insistence on having visited the pope as if anyone gave a shit about that "we are all here, who were implicated in the czech affair, except romania, that had exited then".
12:11 mircea_popescu guy replied "romania exited nothing, romania didn't go in, so it had not what to exit."
12:11 asciilifeform in tito's case , and for that matter kim ir sen's -- 'throne is mine, i won it as partizan commander in the war, took no payola from foreign devils' was tru. but how did the shoemaker get ~his~ throne
12:12 mircea_popescu "nu-i adevarat (that's not true), romania nu a iesti din aceasta problema (romania didn't exit the matter), romania nu a intrat in cehoslovacia (it never entered) asa ca nu avea de unde sa iasa (had not what to exit)"
12:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform elected!
12:12 asciilifeform lollected
12:12 mircea_popescu (this isn't even false, classical case of "sickly old pope")
12:12 mircea_popescu no, actually.
12:13 mircea_popescu the conclave of cardinals picked the least competent of themselves to sit on throne.
12:14 mircea_popescu anyway, the whole meeting went in that vein, ceausescu pointed out to soviet troops still at praga, gorby was liek "oh, that is a bilateral matter" "da, stiu, este un acord bilateral incheiat dupa ocuparea cehoslovaciei" (yea, i know... post-occupation bilateral). then gorby says they can't agree in this matter and ceausescu agrees with him.
12:18 mircea_popescu the important point for romania was that gorby wasn't going to deliver all the oil romania had contracted (and paid for). so ceausescu went to iran ; where he got ~40mn barrels with a further option, to be paid in romanian agricultural machinery.
12:18 asciilifeform waitasec why was ro petroimporting
12:19 mircea_popescu overgrown industrial base, romania imported a lot of energy exported a lot of high tech stuff.
12:19 asciilifeform ah hm.
12:19 mircea_popescu kinda the model since comunists came to their senses post ww2.
12:20 mircea_popescu before that, romania exported oil. after that, imported about 50% of consumption.
12:25 mircea_popescu and of course, "Alan Green, named ambassador to Romania by President George Bush [who called him "a good friend", "intransigent", "well introduced to my take on freedom and democracy"], died Friday in his home in Palm Springs, Calif. He was 75. Mr. Bush selected Mr. Green in 1989, and he moved into the American Embassy in Bucharest just two weeks before the dictator, Nicolae Ceausescu, was executed."
12:28 mircea_popescu (state dept distinguished honor award recipient)
12:31 mircea_popescu and in entirely other lulz : http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/jsexnetrwork-soft-on-demand-s.jpg the exhibitionists are those girls who make the obviously deliberate effort of not covering their cunt with their hands.
12:31 asciilifeform lolwassat
12:32 danielpbarron !!v A9B8E39BDFDB6F827D07E95D156AD3BBE11A4165A89EC9FF957F61CDE4C47DF0
12:32 deedbot danielpbarron rated cruciform 1 << bought a couple FUCKGOATS from me
12:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for some reason i can't help but think of the old lul with chinese on footstools synchronously jumping
12:35 mircea_popescu random bucnha naked azn girls.
12:39 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722406 << it is in the files.tar.gz linked on my blog, and deeded here http://deedbot.org/deed-482547-1.txt
12:39 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 22:12 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: wouldja mind sharing that stage3 you build your eulora gentoos with?
12:39 asciilifeform well yes but loox like intends to be a coherentwave of gurlz rather than randopolarized, if you will.
12:39 mircea_popescu i don't think such a thing as randfomly polarized female wave ever existed or ever could exist.
12:40 mircea_popescu females are naturally-coherent.
12:40 mircea_popescu even to the degree of http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/#selection-3413.588-3413.746 ; or rather... starting with.
~ 23 minutes ~
13:04 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, http://boards.4chan.org/biz/thread/3790332
13:16 danielpbarron !!deposit 1
13:19 danielpbarron what am i doing wrong?
13:22 danielpbarron !!balance
13:27 mircea_popescu danielpbarron should work.
13:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 404 eggog ?
13:29 mircea_popescu aww ? they beleeted it already ?
13:29 mircea_popescu look at that, and before the archival bot kicked in, even.
13:29 mircea_popescu I GUESS THE WORLD WILL NEVER KNOW.
13:33 danielpbarron mircea_popescu, i get no response from the bot
13:33 mircea_popescu odd. mayne trinque has something to say
13:33 phf !!deposit 0
13:35 phf i was going to say maybe it's hardcoded to mircea_popescu, but lobbes was using it too
13:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what was it
13:38 trinque nope, just something amiss. one sec.
13:41 trinque danielpbarron: give it another try
13:42 trinque today I learn autossh will sometimes exit wtf
13:42 trinque thought it *was* a retry loop for ssh
13:42 trinque !!balance
13:42 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IkZcb/?raw=true
13:43 phf trinque: i'll fix http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721087 in a bit. obviously such a change will require deedbot to not ever quote arbitrary log lines in channel
13:43 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:19 trinque: hm no a111 quote?
13:43 trinque yep, it wont.
13:57 danielpbarron !!deposit 1
13:58 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WYvmi/?raw=true
14:01 danielpbarron !!v C6941C8796AD7EBE588C4C2A97DFFD5B3BDF2B2553A01E66AD2F210E28B2C45B
14:01 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mpjJR/?raw=true
14:05 danielpbarron !!balance
14:05 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ojr7G/?raw=true
14:05 trinque isn't reflected until I actually credit the account
14:06 trinque will do after a few blox
14:06 danielpbarron why is the deposit operation a 2-part thing? couldn't it just encrypt an address to my key with the amount to send?
14:07 trinque it's already in the logs.
14:07 trinque that'll change, but as part of limiting the thing to this channel only
14:08 danielpbarron ah ok, i did read that part
14:09 trinque plenty of improvements left to make, for sure.
14:12 asciilifeform !!up apeloyee
14:12 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
14:12 apeloyee thanks
14:13 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722395 << why do karatsuba when you can just shift and add them, like in your W_Mul
14:13 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 21:14 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722289 << and the point of doing karatsuba is? you do 2 recursive calls to Mul_Karatsuba_TopOnly and one to Mul_Karatsuba. should've simply calculated upper_part(XLo*YHi), upper_part(YLo*XHi) and XHi*YHi
14:13 apeloyee I mean, W_Mul doesn't do karatsuba
14:14 asciilifeform describe in detail ?
14:17 apeloyee compute the higher part of product X*Y as XHi*YHi+ShiftRight(XLo*YHi+XHi*YLo, K), where K is size of XLo and YLo
14:17 apeloyee no computation of |XHi-XLo|
14:19 apeloyee are you disappointed by the savings of computing just the higher part yet?
14:20 asciilifeform not yet, considering that it dun work yet, lol
14:21 apeloyee see, it does three recursive calls, meaning the speedup is wholly dependent on the speedup of comba for half-multiply
14:21 apeloyee three, just like normal caratsuba mul
14:21 apeloyee and most products for which the comba is called, are full products, not half products
14:26 apeloyee 2 half products out of 3 on the first level of recursion, 4 of 9 on second, and 8 of 27 on third, assuming 64-bit words and unrealistic 2-fold speedup of comba for half-multiply, and no overhead in karatsuba,
14:26 apeloyee !~calc 4/27
14:26 jhvh1 apeloyee: 4/27 = 0.14814814814814814
14:26 apeloyee 15% speedup
14:26 apeloyee for 64-bit words, 4096-bit operands
14:28 apeloyee the best case pretty much.
14:28 asciilifeform currently i'm aiming for <1sec (opteron 3GHz) 4096b modexp, with minimal new moving parts. after that -- releasing.
14:28 apeloyee which pretty much resolves http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722070
14:28 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 00:38 asciilifeform: mod6: you will notice that the barrett in 'crc handbook' is more complicated : it shrinks the x and then compensates later. this relies on normalization , and constanttimeized incarnation of it would have to work as apeloyee described ( i'ma try it much later, once i see what can be had re speed strictly from having asymmetric karatsuba instead of the current mega-waste )
14:29 apeloyee so, are you putting off the top-half-multiply
14:29 asciilifeform i'ma try it next
14:29 deedbot http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722757 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SMb9H/?raw=true
14:29 trinque danielpbarron: ^
14:30 mircea_popescu apeloyee i'm curious, what do you do for a living ?
14:31 apeloyee i'ma try it next<< for less than 15% speedup (or 10% for 8192-bit operands)? converting to classical barrett should be much more productive
14:33 asciilifeform apeloyee: my strategy so far was to introduce moving parts very, very reluctantly ( started with egyptian multiplier, for example ) when there is absolutely no choice.
14:34 asciilifeform for instance unrolled comba wins 20-25% speed, but i did not use it in place of the generic because it is longer and harder to read.
14:34 apeloyee what do you do for a living ?<<sit before computer, sometimes participating in writing of, er, physics papers.
14:34 asciilifeform ( unrolled comba would have explicit unrolled cases for 1,2,...,8-word operands )
14:35 mircea_popescu ha.
14:36 apeloyee so top-half-multiplier isn't a moving part?
14:37 asciilifeform it is! but much smaller than, for instance, the secretshift-barrett.
14:37 asciilifeform which i will also make, and decide if it was worth the cost
14:37 asciilifeform and then bernsteinian karatsuba, possibly, and whatever else i can think of.
14:38 asciilifeform in the end might even release different variants that have different complexity tradeoffs.
14:38 danielpbarron trinque, ty
14:38 asciilifeform ( reader can pick which he wants )
14:38 mircea_popescu meanwhile in wetware engine work, http://78.media.tumblr.com/99f358816497d4f932800e6fa98aeaff/tumblr_nakmetMb3y1tk1rqio1_500.gif
14:38 apeloyee do you agree that top-half-mul wins 10% at most for 8192-bit operands?
14:39 trinque apeloyee: try upping yourself
14:39 asciilifeform ( a concrete example : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bP0Qt/?raw=true vs http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YBnZR/?raw=true knuthianmod )
14:40 apeloyee !!v 2E65968AB6D7D411ADAAA70B8E530119A400D844AC246114A50D95567C482A12
14:40 deedbot You are now voiced in #trilema
14:41 trinque great. obviously when not voiced, will have to pm.
14:41 asciilifeform apeloyee: theoretically. but cache locality win from smaller memory segment sometimes gives surprising winning. the example above, for instance, gives 2x speedup rather than my predicted 25%.
14:41 mircea_popescu ^
14:41 mircea_popescu i was going to say, the calculated %s rarely match. but theoretically, it should be less than 0.1
14:41 apeloyee thanks trinque
14:42 trinque yw
14:44 asciilifeform if ffa can be made to do 4096b modexp in 0.5s on typical comp, that gives ~1byte/msec purersa payload. which is enough for many purposes, e.g. voice.
14:44 asciilifeform a 2sec modexp is already a wholly fine replacement for koch's gpg, say.
14:45 asciilifeform ( karatsuba, i will note for n00bz, parallelizes , but i deliberately omitted parallelization logic because i want ffa buildable on msdos and for machines with 1 cpu )
14:46 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722397 << I was unclear. Let A be the number to be reduced mod N, R the approximate reciprocal, K the ffa bitness fitting the modulus, then we know that 0<A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) < 2*N <2^(K+1). So might as well calculate A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) modulo 2^(K+1).
14:46 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 21:25 apeloyee: the multiply-by-approximate quotient in barrett's also needs only the lower part (plus 2 extra bits to the left), and lower part of product can be computed exactly (since rounding is not a problem)
14:46 apeloyee i.e. the lower part.
14:47 apeloyee modulo 2^(K+2) for classical barrett.
14:48 asciilifeform it isn't clear to me exactly how
14:49 apeloyee right, unclear again. the muliply of N and floor(A*R/4^K) can be calculated mod 2^(K+1)
14:50 apeloyee *product
14:50 asciilifeform how? k is discrete ( multiple of e.g. 64 )
14:51 apeloyee ok, modulo 2^(K+64).
14:53 asciilifeform all of my mult is xbit * xbit -> 2xbit . ( after using apeloyee's method, also can have xbit * xbit -> upperhalf(2xbit) )
14:53 asciilifeform i even threw out ability to have mul operands that are not power of 2.
14:53 asciilifeform ( karatsuba assumes length always divisible by 2 )
14:54 asciilifeform *that are now power of 2 size
14:54 asciilifeform *not
14:55 asciilifeform so how do you propose to multiply anything modulo 2^(k+64) ?
14:56 apeloyee your choice to not implement it. i've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort anyway.
14:59 asciilifeform so far almost all of my theoretical predictions re which optimizations will be worth the effort, were wrong
14:59 asciilifeform ( as in above case with knuth divider )
14:59 asciilifeform because on pc most of the wait time is for memory access.
15:00 apeloyee on a different topic, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722429 and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721484 seem to contradict each other. what's an initial sieve for if the algo must run in fixed time? i've interpreted it as "successful test must run in fixed time, failures can be variable-time", and make proposal accordingly.
15:00 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 00:16 asciilifeform: the ONLY correct method of generating cryptoprimes, is to 1) get N bits from FUCKGOATS 2) determine, in fixed spacetime every single time, whether that string of bits constitutes a usable prime.
15:00 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 19:38 asciilifeform: for the initial sieve ~prior~ to miller-rabin
15:00 asciilifeform apeloyee: no contradiction. the variability of time is in the ~test~, not the output result , which naturally will vary depending on what rng gave you
15:01 asciilifeform there must be no variability in the time the ~test~ takes.
15:01 asciilifeform *variability allowed not in the test, but in output
15:02 apeloyee so if the number fails initial sieve, do you proceed to miller-rabin?
15:02 mircea_popescu http://wifc.com/news/articles/2017/oct/06/russia-greek-ruling-on-russian-bitcoin-fraud-suspect-is-illegal/ in other coke machine competitions.
15:03 asciilifeform apeloyee: i see your point. either we dispense with the sieve, or decide to count from the moment after sieve.
15:03 asciilifeform otherwise sieve is waste of time.
15:03 mircea_popescu i don't see what the problem is, practically. so you leak ... how many times you had to try to get a prime ?
15:04 mircea_popescu leaking rng quality is more of a concern for debian/prngs.
15:04 asciilifeform possibly constantly, depending on the rsa keying system
15:04 asciilifeform if we generate keys continuously, it is a problem.
15:04 mircea_popescu hm
15:04 asciilifeform the time taken by heathen miller-rabin , in fact leaks key bits.
15:04 asciilifeform ( i linked to a concrete algo for this attack some months ago )
15:05 asciilifeform rejecting rng result that doesn't pass the gcd sieve -- leaks nothing
15:05 asciilifeform because all you do is get NEXT N bits from rng, they have ( if rng is proper ) 0 relation to previous N
15:05 mircea_popescu right.
15:05 apeloyee yes. same for miller-rabin
15:05 mircea_popescu so this is more a r-m problem altogether. as that's not linear.
15:06 asciilifeform apeloyee: no, because there is another possibility
15:06 mircea_popescu apeloyee no, because as he well points out, the time it takes is not unrelated to the key.
15:06 asciilifeform for miller rabin you may end up ACCEPTING the test
15:06 asciilifeform and then if your miller-rabin is variable time, you have leaked key bits.
15:06 asciilifeform via the interval it took you to ACCEPT.
15:07 asciilifeform this is why ultimately entire primality test algo must be constant time, just like the other pieces.
15:07 asciilifeform if you leak in one place, the rest of the places are worthless
15:07 apeloyee well, I thought it's not a problem, each round of m-r can be implemented by slightly different version of extant modexp
15:07 mircea_popescu ugh
15:07 apeloyee leaking number of rounds is not a problem
15:07 asciilifeform what?!
15:07 asciilifeform no 'different versions'
15:08 asciilifeform understand, this thing is 800 lines right now and i consider it too big.
15:08 asciilifeform ANY LEAK IS A PROBLEM
15:08 asciilifeform there is to be no compromise on leak.
15:08 asciilifeform if you want 'compromise' rsa, use koch's.
15:08 mircea_popescu the true problem here is that there's not going to be a fixtime r-m
15:08 asciilifeform yes there is.
15:08 mircea_popescu how ?
15:09 asciilifeform same method as constant gcd.
15:09 asciilifeform all steps that were previously conditional, happen muxed.
15:09 mircea_popescu but its a probabilistic algo.
15:09 apeloyee if you have N ffa-eligible tests, bailing early out after one of them failed is not a problem.as per above.
15:09 mircea_popescu it naturally makes assumptions about the item you're testing.
15:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: all that means is that one of the inputs comes from rng.
15:10 asciilifeform it doesn't mean that we are forced to BRANCH on it.
15:10 mircea_popescu hm
15:10 asciilifeform can instead -- mux.
15:10 asciilifeform just like i did everywhere else.
15:10 asciilifeform apeloyee: correct.
15:10 asciilifeform apeloyee: each individual test has to be fixedtime though. then -- yes.
15:11 asciilifeform then all ACCEPTED primes took exactly same number of cpu clocks, to produce.
15:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: review the mr algo , it is actually surprisingly easy to ffaize, just replace all 'return true' with flag := flag OR true, etc
15:13 mircea_popescu incidentally, since we're on m-r : do we actually pick 4096 bit bases to avoid the arnault number problem ? to leverage the ffa flatness, as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722376 ?
15:13 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 19:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192'
15:13 asciilifeform y'mean exponents ?
15:14 mircea_popescu Z/nZ < n factor.
15:14 asciilifeform waiwat
15:14 apeloyee each round of miller-rabin is mostly a modexp which makes some tests on the intermediate results. so I don't see how you can avoid a different version of modexp
15:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220161766_Constructing_Carmichael_Numbers_which_are_Strong_Pseudoprimes_to_Several_Bases (guy named arnault gave example of number for which all tests up to ~300 were misleading)
15:15 asciilifeform apeloyee: i don't see what is wrong with standard modexp
15:15 mircea_popescu but we don't have to start low. and we don't really want to, either.
15:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: chance of these without sabotaged rng is < chance of meteorite
15:16 asciilifeform ( meteorite specifically on your head, not elsewhere )
15:16 mircea_popescu depends how you run RM, doesn't it.
15:16 mircea_popescu famously, maple misidentified the guy's number. not because of rng, eiher.
15:17 asciilifeform item paywalled
15:17 asciilifeform anybody got copy ?
15:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform https://mathcrypto.wordpress.com/2014/11/29/large-carmichael-numbers-that-are-strong-pseudoprimes-to-several-bases/
15:18 asciilifeform ty
15:18 mircea_popescu 2887148238050771212671429597130393991977609459279722700926516024197432303799152733116328983144639225941977803110929349655578418949441740933805615113979999421542416933972905423711002751042080134966731755152859226962916775325475044445856101949404200039904432116776619949629539250452698719329070373564032273701278453899126120309244841494728976885406024976768122077071687938121709811322297802059565867 for permanent record.
15:19 asciilifeform i suspect that for any probabilistic test, you can construct a boojum (e.g. you know that he will do 300 rounds, you make one that needs 301 )
15:19 mircea_popescu this is specifically "all prime bases up to 300".
15:19 mircea_popescu because (((idiots))) start from 1.
15:19 mircea_popescu which i assume we won't be doing ?
15:19 asciilifeform i can't think of why to do any such thing
15:19 mircea_popescu but maple did do it.
15:20 apeloyee maple did a deterministic test
15:20 apeloyee and made it wrong
15:20 mircea_popescu (and ftr -- aleph (carmichael numbers) = aleph(N) iirc.)
15:20 mircea_popescu apeloyee wasn't it exactly r-m restricted to first 10 primes or such ?
15:21 apeloyee I think so.
15:21 mircea_popescu well that's what i'm saying.
15:21 asciilifeform and moreover for long-term key genning, imho a week or longer probabilistic primality test is not inappropriate.
15:21 mircea_popescu "10 rounds, start from 1".
15:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform should prolly be user knob tbh.
15:21 asciilifeform ( and naturally it parallelizes without any effort on all iron you might have , just set it up on each )
15:23 asciilifeform this requirement is somewhat in tension with classical airgapism 'this key was born in this tin can, and must die in it' however
15:23 asciilifeform so operator must decide for himself
15:23 asciilifeform which he'd rather have -- key that he genned inside 50cent chip, staying there, or primality-torture on his fleet of pentiums etc
15:23 apeloyee at that cost, may also do the deterministic miller test then.
15:24 mircea_popescu ^
15:24 mircea_popescu probably should.
15:25 mircea_popescu and in other bucharest tax office, https://i2.wp.com/www.cronicipebune.ro/wp-content/uploads/IMG_1539.jpg
15:25 jurov hi mircea_popescu, s.qntr is still traded? i have got some frozen mpex orders
15:25 mircea_popescu jurov shall look into it.
15:25 asciilifeform i'm not aware of a fully deterministic test that doesn't run in geological (e.g. saxena) time
15:26 asciilifeform ( very often abuse of terminology, what people actually mean by 'deterministic version' is 'probabilistic with prng supplying the random' )
15:28 apeloyee doesn't run in geological (e.g. saxena) time << if you have faith in generalized riemann hypothesis and correctness of work on deterministic miller test - you have it. I don't, but running test for a week is imo greater crackpottery than believing in that.
15:28 mircea_popescu well, the running maybe not, but ~believing~ that it achieved something, surely.
15:28 asciilifeform i'll take the p(failure) to the week's power, over the possibility of hypothesis falling and ALL keys fucked.
15:28 mircea_popescu as per the ancient "doctor, random things in the house are talking to me, am i losing it ?" "have you started answering ?" "not yet" "then not yet"
15:29 asciilifeform ( i.e. i regard the proof behind strength of the probabilistic ver, as fundamentally stronger than the other's )
15:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes but this is just the artistic side in you.
15:30 asciilifeform and incidentally if there existed an UNBIASED constructor of primes, i'd use that
15:30 asciilifeform and dispense with tests.
15:30 asciilifeform but there does not.
15:31 mircea_popescu oh and in other news
15:31 mircea_popescu !#s simona halep
15:31 a111 21 results for "simona halep", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=simona%20halep
15:31 mircea_popescu ^ now #1.
15:31 asciilifeform unbiased -- in this case -- would mean that it eats ANY bitstring from rng, R, and maps it to UNIQUE prime , P
15:32 mircea_popescu no, i get it. you want a prime index function.
15:32 asciilifeform where P has same bitness as R.
15:32 mircea_popescu but function, not hash table
15:32 asciilifeform correct.
15:32 mircea_popescu this incidentally is a fine statement of what a prime even fucking is.
15:33 mircea_popescu "not a root of 1st degree polynomial with smaller parameters than it"
15:36 asciilifeform apeloyee: i don't actually see how 'test for a week' is crackpottery when speaking about a key that is intended to stand up for 50 years ( or longer )
15:36 asciilifeform when submarine is built, meant to last maybe 20yrs, test takes much longer than week
15:36 asciilifeform and costs considerably more
15:36 apeloyee pray that GNFS will never be improved upon!!
15:36 asciilifeform whereas some keys are more valuable than any submarine
15:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but the test that takes longer and costs more does not consist of manic re-measuring of the same one length, repeated millions of times.
15:37 asciilifeform apeloyee: why not also say 'pray that p != np '
15:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if ~probabilistic~, not 'same' test
15:37 apeloyee asciilifeform: yes, that too.
15:37 mircea_popescu if your expectation is that the fifth attempt did not resolve the problem in a manner such as the fifth million would, there's deeper problems.
15:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is demonstrably true re r-m test tho.
15:37 asciilifeform whole idea of probabilistic algo.
15:38 mircea_popescu apeloyee the p/np thing is kinda the label used here for all these, zfc, gnfs, etc.
15:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform convergence on it is much narrower than mn tries or w/e a week provides.
15:38 asciilifeform ^ to rephrase, we don't actually know if hard problems exist as a hard law of nature.
15:38 asciilifeform it remains possible that -- somehow -- they do not
15:39 asciilifeform but in light of this, a correct rsatron is still one that stands on nothing BUT the assumption that rsa is hard.
15:39 mircea_popescu well, so defined it must gcd as primality test.
15:39 asciilifeform rather than, e.g., 'rsa broken OR aes broken OR prng broke OR riemann is false OR ...'
15:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if it were physically possible as the sole primality test, we'd all use.
15:40 mircea_popescu i know no proof of r-m convergence in terms of factorization.
15:40 apeloyee hey, before quadratic sieve was invented, they used to say that breaking 512-bit rsa will take eleventy zillion years and it's therefore Totally Secure (tm)
15:40 mircea_popescu aha. and even after it was invented and before it was published.
15:41 asciilifeform fall of rsa is roughly same item as 'global warming'
15:41 asciilifeform in that it may be an actual problem , but NONE of the folx who ever publicly discussed it, have any business being taken seriously.
15:41 asciilifeform all 'selling something'.
15:42 asciilifeform and all of what they're selling -- stinks.
15:42 apeloyee why should then "ras key for 50n years" should be taken seriously then?
15:42 apeloyee *rsa key for 50 years
15:42 asciilifeform because it is the null hypothesis.
15:42 asciilifeform you get choice between 1) rsa 2) public key crypto does not exist
15:43 asciilifeform people offering a (3) are sellingsomething.
15:43 mircea_popescu then 2 seems the null hypothesis ?
15:44 asciilifeform problem is that the historical period where crypto was a contest of bullet vs armour, rather than 'absolute bullet exists'/'absolute armour exists' is not over.
15:47 asciilifeform situation where rsa is breakable, but no one can yet break it, makes it the sane option . because alternative is to become a donkey fucker ( rely on face to face for all comms , hope that nobody invents listening bug, etc )
15:47 apeloyee anyway, I was saying that, if spending a week, may spend a small fraction of the time on the supposed-deterministic test
15:47 asciilifeform why not both ?
15:47 apeloyee of course boith
15:47 apeloyee *both
15:47 asciilifeform when i say 'week' it does not mean on a particular test.
15:48 asciilifeform can be on any combination of whatever known tests.
15:50 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722400 << hey, I offered you an idea for GCD. you: "it stinks". I point you to bernstein ( https://facthacks.cr.yp.to/batchtrial.html ). you: "it stinks". maybe GCD is not a sane option ofter all, eh?
15:50 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 21:28 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << i thought bernstein's "how to find smooth parts of integers" suggests a remainder tree, not gcd?
15:51 asciilifeform gcd is for the pre-mr sieve, is all.
15:51 asciilifeform ( and potentially for other primality tests, though i can think of some cryptosystems where it is handy )
15:51 asciilifeform remember that ffa is not strictly for rsa.
15:52 asciilifeform apeloyee: what does remainder tree win when you are testing only 2 numbers ?
15:52 asciilifeform i used bernstein's tree in phuctor, where it made actual sense
15:52 apeloyee what two numbers?
15:52 asciilifeform x and y.
15:53 asciilifeform ( in our concrete case, r, a random , and p, a primorial -- for the pre-mr litmus test )
15:53 asciilifeform if gcd(r, p) == 1 -- then worth m-r, otherwise not )
15:53 apeloyee why p, and not p1, p2, ... p419?
15:54 asciilifeform because i'm on a chip with 32kB of memory, say.
15:54 asciilifeform why the hell should i keep random crud in a table to pick up later.
15:56 asciilifeform but hypothetically it may even be possible to ffaize bernstein's tree. or even to do it in such a way that doesn't wipe out the cpu winning from it. and even possibly to prove that it works and doesn't leak bits and doesn't let composites through once in a while.
15:56 apeloyee because the acceptably fast algorithms are simpler.
15:56 asciilifeform but this would weigh more than all of ffa to date !
15:57 asciilifeform when you ffaize 'simpler' is not always what initially looks like .
15:59 apeloyee bernstein's batch trial division would seem to straightforwardly ffaize. where's the problem?
15:59 asciilifeform the fact that i don't need the batch aspect for anything, for starters
15:59 asciilifeform the fact that divisions are dog slow, for seconds
16:00 apeloyee the fact that i don't need the batch aspect for anything, for starters << so don't.
16:00 apeloyee the fact that divisions are dog slow, for seconds << what barrett's reduction is for.
16:02 asciilifeform in practice on pc speed appears to be inversely proportional to memory used, rather than the cpu cycle count.
16:02 asciilifeform and gcd wins vs however-many trial divisions with barrett.
16:03 asciilifeform (i.e. you still win if you take 500x the cpu cycles, so long as you don't get cache-evicted)
16:03 asciilifeform barrett needs large scratch buffer for the mults; gcd can happen in-place.
16:03 apeloyee but you said you was wrong in estimating performance every time!! :P
16:04 asciilifeform lol
16:04 mircea_popescu ahaha
16:05 asciilifeform and incidentally i was not joking when said 32kb, it is fully my intention to eventually put whole thing on fpga where there will be certainly not even half MB of working space.
16:05 asciilifeform not even quarter mb.
16:06 apeloyee I think http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722402 will win over quadratic gcd.
16:06 a111 Logged on 2017-10-07 21:48 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << alternatively, can *construct* numbers which don't have very small factors. pick a nonzero remainder mod 2, mod 3, ... mod largest-prime-fit-in-your-primorial and find what number of primorial is congruent to it using chinese remainder theorem
16:06 asciilifeform not if it needs 8x more temp space
16:06 asciilifeform and doesn't even stand a chance of fitting in fpga.
16:07 asciilifeform ( and probably not even on pc, where it will get thrown out of cache )
16:07 asciilifeform but you're welcome to try.
16:08 apeloyee on fpga, can bit-pack.
16:08 asciilifeform elaborate?
16:09 apeloyee pack p1, p2, ... pn so it doesn't take much more space, than the product thereof.
16:09 asciilifeform how??
16:09 asciilifeform we're still doing constant times.
16:10 apeloyee what, the small primes are a secret?
16:10 asciilifeform understand that in fpga 'secret shift' is NOT a function that can be 'called', but a physical object that gets instantiated, using thousands of cells, every time you use it.
16:10 asciilifeform same as adder, etc.
16:11 apeloyee oh noes, the enemy will learn that the first primes are 2,3,5,7,11,..!!!
16:11 asciilifeform ( i.e. every time you write down a '+' that's a minimum of 2N LUTs used up, that cannot be used for anything else, where N is the operand width )
16:11 asciilifeform apeloyee: no compromises.
16:11 asciilifeform on leak.
16:11 asciilifeform no camel's nose in the tent.
16:12 asciilifeform who wants to fuck camels, can go use openssl.
16:12 apeloyee why not lak waht's already public: the list of small primes. that' not a compromise.
16:12 asciilifeform because go and prove that it is ALL you leaked.
16:13 asciilifeform not to mention that we do not have such a thing as a small integer.
16:13 asciilifeform we only have gigantic integers, and single bits. that's it.
16:13 * asciilifeform bbl
16:21 apeloyee as usual, if primitives don't leak- this won't leak anything but the small primes. this is obvious. or are we doing associativity proof in peano arithmetic or other hair-shirt arcana (c)
~ 21 minutes ~
16:43 apeloyee not if it needs 8x more temp space << and karatsuba totally doesn't.
16:44 apeloyee you trade temp space for performance.
16:46 apeloyee not 8x, but nether does proposed method
16:46 apeloyee nether does proposed method require 8x
16:47 apeloyee *neither
16:54 apeloyee your fpga impl will necessarily have multipliers for various sizes of int
16:54 apeloyee can reuse that
16:55 apeloyee multipliers for mod-exp
16:57 mircea_popescu i expect you just get one mult for the largest size and reuse it indefinitely, nfi what he's on about with the 2n luts for every sum
16:58 apeloyee yes, that would fit no fpga one can buy
17:04 mircea_popescu and in continuing funz, http://78.media.tumblr.com/8292708d5f10c32dd03e840cbf38b52f/tumblr_msoh7wWpev1snc48co1_400.gif
17:10 mircea_popescu http://www.beatmort.ro/aberatii/internalnote.php << in ancient lulz, rather related to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-01#1691973 ; this was genuinely a major piece of ro internet culture late 90s, when ustards started to "invest"/move in.
17:10 a111 Logged on 2017-08-01 17:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-01#1691747 << this almost suffices to qualify as crane operator!111
17:10 mircea_popescu sadly, nobody had the foresight to fuck them with a spiked pole then.
17:10 mircea_popescu samovar seemed harmless.
17:24 hanbot nor should you ever substitute "May I help you?" with "ce pula mea vrei"? << ahahaha
17:24 mircea_popescu pai nu ?
17:24 * hanbot has doubts adhering to that list of 'rules' is even possible for most speakers
17:25 mircea_popescu from what i hear they've a new model now.
17:25 mircea_popescu they adhere to anything.
17:26 hanbot at least the walls'll say muie long after the mouths've stopped
~ 18 minutes ~
17:44 mircea_popescu sooo... just had a lightning so close, made the landline phone ring.
17:49 shinohai "Hey MP, this is Thor .... what's shakin?"
~ 24 minutes ~
18:13 asciilifeform woah landline
18:13 asciilifeform they still got'em in mircea_popescustan?!
18:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1723058 << which op is it that only leaks 1 of its 2 operands ?
18:14 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 20:12 apeloyee: why not lak waht's already public: the list of small primes. that' not a compromise.
18:15 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1723064 << gcd does not need a karatsuba, the karatsubatron can be doing something else while gcd happens
18:15 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 20:43 apeloyee: not if it needs 8x more temp space << and karatsuba totally doesn't.
18:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1723072 << mul is not add, can't do this, the wider register costs you nonlinearly moar time
18:16 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 20:57 mircea_popescu: i expect you just get one mult for the largest size and reuse it indefinitely, nfi what he's on about with the 2n luts for every sum
18:17 asciilifeform and large multron is made of a quantity of half-sized ones, they - half-sized again, and so on.
18:17 asciilifeform is all you get. ( see current ffa src, it is illustrative )
~ 42 minutes ~
19:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722777 << this btw does NOT work
19:00 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 18:17 apeloyee: compute the higher part of product X*Y as XHi*YHi+ShiftRight(XLo*YHi+XHi*YLo, K), where K is size of XLo and YLo
19:00 asciilifeform if it worked, i'd use it in W_Mul -- but it does NOT
19:00 asciilifeform there is a missing term
19:01 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/lXrJ8/?raw=true << W_Mul, for reference.
19:02 asciilifeform ^ represented by 'CL' in above.
19:05 asciilifeform or hm, there's gotta be a mistake in my test, bbl
19:19 asciilifeform now, good noose is that it in fact worx...
19:20 asciilifeform bad is that apeloyee was not only right re 'no more than 10%' but in fact there is NO observed speedup:
19:20 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MceAy/?raw=true .
19:20 asciilifeform same ~2sec.
19:20 asciilifeform ( conceivably on a box with smaller cache, there could be speedup. )
19:23 asciilifeform though i suspect that this top-only multer oughta recurse...
19:30 asciilifeform ( notice, we only use the bottom halves of XHi*YLo and XLo*YHi )
19:31 asciilifeform grr, top, halves
19:31 asciilifeform ...top halves of XHi*YLo and XLo*YHi.
~ 22 minutes ~
19:53 * asciilifeform makes a http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bnsZv/?raw=true and then notices that it not only is always off by smallint, but there is no way to fix, because the carries from the ( not used for anything else ) bottom halves of the muls, now are lost .
19:54 asciilifeform because what sucks moar than 'ugly' ? how about 'ugly AND wrong answers'
19:55 * asciilifeform bbl, will continue the misadventure later
~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~
22:02 mircea_popescu outlyers are interesting. i find an `overcompetent:http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ teenager appealing just as i find an `oversubmissive:http://trilema.com/2017/little-miss-pretty/#selection-247.0-251.710 `overinnocent lawyer appealing.
22:03 mircea_popescu how about this format re `tagging:http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-02#1719766 ?
22:03 a111 Logged on 2017-10-02 19:52 mircea_popescu: so what is the idea here, if i wish to review the state of this, other than asking you, i could also what ? !#s ffa ?
22:03 mircea_popescu i confess i tried to introduce `tickmarks into my process as such, but it ends up ~looking~ fucking retarded. i'm not even know if it just looks that way but isn't, or actually is. huge inertia against it though.
22:04 mircea_popescu however, as a chat anchoring convention i could actually get myself to do it, as that's 99% of what i wish i could do and currently can't, frustrates me once a week with some regularity.
22:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1723086 << pretty epic, wall mounted plasma went blank for 10 seconds, castle of frankenstein styles over here.
22:08 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 21:49 shinohai: "Hey MP, this is Thor .... what's shakin?"
22:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1723088 << the stan-advantage is that you can get anything if you want to.
22:08 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 22:13 asciilifeform: they still got'em in mircea_popescustan?!
22:09 asciilifeform iirc we found that every other char's been clobbered to death already
22:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1723104 << ahahah! i really enjoy these apeloyee-alf discussions, for the record.
22:09 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 23:19 asciilifeform: now, good noose is that it in fact worx...
22:09 asciilifeform and would need a 'year 0' where old logs before time T dun get parsed by tagfinder
22:09 mircea_popescu somehow he manages to need much much less hammer to hammer in a point, for which i confess to admiring the man.
22:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe we can push a year 0 on the misfortunate kind hearts trying to follow this evolvospec.
22:10 mircea_popescu if the argument's good enough, at any rate.
22:11 * asciilifeform has nothing against backtick
22:11 mircea_popescu evolvospec, for the record, is not a spec, exactly in the manner a bad girl may be great fun to be with but notrly a wife.
22:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the more complex construction, `tag:url
22:11 asciilifeform what's that do
22:12 mircea_popescu gets point of reference baked in into tags ; gives me an incentive to even tagmark in the first place.
22:13 asciilifeform aah as in old l0gz
22:13 mircea_popescu wait what ?
22:13 asciilifeform well items that already happened, gotta be tagged
22:13 mircea_popescu if anyone wants to, can.
22:14 asciilifeform but i'd rather see a cleaner method where it happens via the usual phf backarrow
22:15 mircea_popescu i imagine the sane way to represent "outlyers are interesting. i find an `overcompetent:http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ teenager appealing just as i find an `oversubmissive:http://trilema.com/2017/little-miss-pretty/#selection-247.0-251.710 `overinnocent lawyer appealing." in html is via the usual anchor mechanism, as "outlyers are interesting. i find an <a href=http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/>overcompetent</a> teen
22:15 mircea_popescu ager appealing just as i find an <a href=http://trilema.com/2017/little-miss-pretty/#selection-247.0-251.710>oversubmissive</a> overinnocent lawyer appealing."
22:15 asciilifeform urls get cut off
22:15 asciilifeform there will be ugh
22:15 mircea_popescu logotron can parse them into sense, at a further cost.
22:16 asciilifeform parse a cut off url ?!
22:16 mircea_popescu yes.
22:16 asciilifeform pray tell mr babbage...
22:16 mircea_popescu looks for next space.
22:16 asciilifeform still ugg
22:16 mircea_popescu "further cost" aye.
22:16 asciilifeform why not tag the urls the clean way
22:16 mircea_popescu in chat ?
22:17 mircea_popescu or what is "the clean way" here
22:17 asciilifeform i'll demonstrate:
22:18 asciilifeform `overcompetent http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-27#1458568
22:18 a111 Logged on 2016-04-27 16:36 mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ << surprisingly, in english no less !
22:18 mircea_popescu how is this cleanner ? same thing, but instead of : you used space.
22:19 asciilifeform ( ideally you would do it to first pop of something )
22:19 asciilifeform cleaner because done ONCE
22:19 mircea_popescu who's gonna enforce the onceness.
22:19 asciilifeform it never has to be done again
22:19 mircea_popescu it never has to be done again whether done by ":" or by " " lol
22:20 asciilifeform the url is now head of the list of what comes out when you click 'overcompetent' in logview
22:20 mircea_popescu reason i prefer the `tag:url format to the `tag url format is that space is too syntactically meaningful.
22:20 asciilifeform ah so yours was also a onetime command ?
22:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how logotrons use this raw info is left to operator tbh.
22:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not specifically. could be.
22:21 asciilifeform because imho urls in speech are ugh.
22:21 asciilifeform gotta be an exceptional thing
22:21 mircea_popescu or else you know, in other `sluts:http://78.media.tumblr.com/8292708d5f10c32dd03e840cbf38b52f/tumblr_msoh7wWpev1snc48co1_400.gif
22:21 asciilifeform i also favour postfixation for this
22:21 mircea_popescu how's that ?
22:22 asciilifeform http://78.media.tumblr.com/8292708d5f10c32dd03e840cbf38b52f/tumblr_msoh7wWpev1snc48co1_400.gif `sluts
22:22 asciilifeform though could work both ways, no prob
22:22 mircea_popescu this sgml corp deliberation ended up inconclusive.
22:23 asciilifeform lol
22:23 mircea_popescu experience convinces me that anchor-first is correct way and the url-first html spec a kludge./
22:23 asciilifeform why not the simplest variant : `foo adds this line to the tagset.
22:24 asciilifeform of foo
22:24 asciilifeform `sluts - of sluts
22:24 mircea_popescu because if i don't have the liberty to overload an url i can find no incentive to ever tickmark.
22:24 asciilifeform you do though, just put this url in a `foo line .
22:25 asciilifeform no real need to parse the urls or define how they are to be eaten.
22:25 mircea_popescu and if it gets cut, the logparser sure as fuck has no way to fix it now.
22:25 asciilifeform you do it again, and corrected version gets in the tagset.
22:25 mircea_popescu in other lulz, wikipedia : "Erik Naggum (June 13, 1965 – June 17, 2009) was a Norwegian computer programmer recognized for his work in the fields of SGML, Emacs and Lisp. Since the early 1990s he was also a provocative participant on various Usenet discussion groups.[1]" << accidental hit of the consensus process, because "provocative" seemed both sufficiently insulting to the idiots and actually flattering to the fanbois.
22:26 asciilifeform poor dead d00d defenseless before pediwikirasty
22:27 mircea_popescu well... he was "provocative". fine example of consensus-building word in world of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722690 because it's "bad" to one group and "good" to the oither so it all works out.
22:27 a111 Logged on 2017-10-08 15:49 mircea_popescu: (because of reasons discussed in http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-ideal-social-systems-reprint/ socialisms can't have categorical terms, defined in the normal manner, but must always include the ethical color of all words in the words. so "movement" becomes either provocation (bad) or progres (good) and so following for everything, stalin's cup is named by a different cupword than hitler's self-same identical cup)
22:27 mircea_popescu i suspect chinese has a helluva lot of these.
22:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/ErikNaggum_LUGM98_DKL.jpg << berkley back when it could afford actual plates. a short 30 years ago, at that!
22:28 asciilifeform they tend more to 'grass mud horse'
22:29 asciilifeform !#s grass mud horse
22:29 a111 1 result for "grass mud horse", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=grass%20mud%20horse
22:29 asciilifeform hm.
22:29 asciilifeform !~google grass mud horse
22:29 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Grass Mud Horse - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse>; Grass - mud horse - China Digital Space: <https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/Grass-mud_horse>; Song of the Grass - Mud Horse (Cao Ni Ma) - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DwKx1aenJK08>
22:29 asciilifeform hm.
22:29 mircea_popescu lmao!
22:30 asciilifeform ^ typical modern chinesism
22:30 asciilifeform recall ye olde wax tadpole.
22:32 mircea_popescu dude this shit is intricate.
22:32 asciilifeform but otoh i have nfi what cn limba de lemn looks like.
22:32 * mircea_popescu likes.
22:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "wears three wristwatches"
22:32 asciilifeform el tic, eu tac
22:32 asciilifeform or how it went.
22:32 mircea_popescu lol. totally.
22:32 mircea_popescu it's really hard not to like the chinese, try as one might.
22:37 mircea_popescu !~google "green dam youth escort"
22:38 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Green Dam Youth Escort - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dam_Youth_Escort>; China's Green Dam : The Implications of Government Control ...: <https://opennet.net/chinas-green-dam-the-implications-government-control-encroaching-home-pc>; China's " Green Dam Youth Escort " Software - CircleID: <http://www.circleid.com/posts/20090608_chinas_green_dam_youth_escort_software/
22:38 mircea_popescu fancy that wonder lmao, mandatory windows service pack.
22:40 asciilifeform lol re the pig ban
22:41 mircea_popescu "protector" of youth that sees no problem as long as the cumguzzler is black etc.
22:41 asciilifeform ( in pediwik link , example of 'porn' censored , sty of pig )
22:41 asciilifeform aha
22:41 asciilifeform finest american tech
22:42 mircea_popescu afaik it was made by little yellow men.
22:42 mircea_popescu it does have a little yellow pig-thing stamp for cuteness.
22:42 asciilifeform pioneered by the fat white men
22:42 asciilifeform 1990s
22:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform shit, you're in there!
22:43 asciilifeform waaiwat
22:43 asciilifeform the pigs?!
22:43 mircea_popescu Datskovskiy, Stanislav (29 June 2010). "The Wisdom of Erik Naggum". Loper OS (blog).
22:43 asciilifeform lollomatic
22:43 mircea_popescu the pigs, lol.
22:43 mircea_popescu http://mailman.gramstad.no/mailman/listinfo/enag-mausoleum of possible interests.
22:43 asciilifeform i linked to it iirc
22:44 mircea_popescu ah ok. i missed.
22:44 mircea_popescu https://groups.google.com/forum/#!banned/topic/comp.text.sgml/LWMT9ibAoDQ << google ai has in its wisdom replaced all of comp.text.sgml with a warning.
22:45 mircea_popescu with people this smart, who can wonder why the united states is the foremost leader of the world!
22:45 asciilifeform looks to be members only nao
22:45 asciilifeform wants pw
22:45 mircea_popescu "continue" just redirects me to the original url.
22:45 mircea_popescu post a "loading" overlay.
22:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'groups' bit it years ago
22:46 mircea_popescu hey, wikipedia (that bit it recently) still links them.
22:46 asciilifeform concrete articles show up, on a good day. by-group, or text srch, or date -- none
22:47 asciilifeform btw this imho was not accidental, various 'yarvins' ( incl. the original, who confessed to being part of this set ) want to bury their usenet past , 'unseemly'
22:47 * mircea_popescu shrugs.
22:48 mircea_popescu let them. contrary to what they may think, success is actually a liability.
22:49 asciilifeform howsthat
22:49 mircea_popescu "SGML is a good idea when the markup overhead is less than 2%." << holy shit check him out. that's... a lot narrower than i'd have guessed.
22:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dja know that koan with the two monks, meeting a woman at a bridge ? "please, one of you, fuck me! fuck me!" she says. one of them recoils in disgust, the other fucks her, then they continue over the bridge.
22:50 mircea_popescu eventually they stop somewhere for the night, and in the wee hours of the morning monk goes and shakes the other awake. "brother... that woman... how could you fuck her ?"
22:50 mircea_popescu "brother... i left her at the bridge. why are you still carrying her ?"
22:51 asciilifeform lolk
22:52 mircea_popescu dao wilde.
22:52 asciilifeform [insert the typical demise of `usenet thread here...]
22:59 mircea_popescu "One has to marvel at the wide acceptance of our existing punctuation marks and the sociology of their acceptance." << hm. naggum doesn't actually have the ability to understand things he didn't set himself deliberately to work at understanding, does he ?
22:59 mircea_popescu (sauce is http://www.schnada.de/grapt/eriknaggum-xmlrant.html a particularly poorly/amusinglyt supported broadly correcy but shockingly idiotic in particulars rant)
23:10 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
23:10 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4612.17, vol: 9972.22002248 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4619.6, vol: 28296.13901936 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4240.5948, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4614.2, vol: 4197.98671649 | Volume-weighted last average: 4617.32142572
23:11 BingoBoingo Oh my, this crash is tickling the margin of error to the last all time high
23:15 BingoBoingo And from the sports desk, Mike Pence: "I left today's Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem."
23:16 mircea_popescu ahahaha what
23:16 mircea_popescu dude didn't do the "proper" ustard gymnastics or what was it ?
23:18 BingoBoingo Oh, the sportsball players didn't stand for the song of country before game in protest of "Police r mean to us black folk" as they had been for the last couple weeks. Mike Pence went to game and left before it started.
23:19 mircea_popescu world went to shit, i started leaving more often than staying through sometime in i dunno, 2006 ?
23:21 BingoBoingo But this isn't Pence pretending to know to ape after you leaving. This is Pence being the ape following ordinary sportball watching Trump voters leaving.
23:21 * mircea_popescu suspects the "sports" entertainment franchises won't weather the anti-pantsuit strom any better than dnc did.
23:21 BingoBoingo The bulk of their fanbase is anti pantsuit.
23:22 mircea_popescu iirc, they've all been struggling for economic relevancy in the past decade, if this even vaguely proves itself as a mass movement the whole shitshow's canned overnight.
23:22 mircea_popescu who the fuck even cares about "sports" anymore, and why would they.
23:23 BingoBoingo This sportball was the financially healthiest reaping all the ad money, but... On the strength of marketing to Texas and the south.
23:23 BingoBoingo The pantsuit states aleady tuned out of sportsball because "concussions" and "mean"
23:23 mircea_popescu in which case, i suspect federation rules requiring all black players wear a yellow star and apologize for being there before every game have even odds next year.
23:24 mircea_popescu trump certainly picked the right "issue" though.
23:24 BingoBoingo Lol, in this sportsball most of the players ARE black
23:25 mircea_popescu so ?
23:25 mircea_popescu most of the dollars--are green.
23:25 BingoBoingo The league is a bureacracy
23:26 BingoBoingo The commisioner a bureaucrat.
23:26 mircea_popescu much much more vulnerable to trump than the liberal "endowments" ie hedge funds masquerading as universities.
23:27 BingoBoingo AHA, and it doesn't help that sportball season overlaps the calendar with sportspuck season.
23:27 BingoBoingo Which gives the bored beer drinking crowd an alternative noise to drink to
23:34 * BingoBoingo predicts pantsuit attacks on sportspuck because racist by the end of November
23:34 mircea_popescu oya.
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