Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-05-17 | 2017-05-19 →
07:23 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/090DE0A92A6663072D4E9A404B6399E98F59D4C4C4825A31B580100BF4CB72B9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2258784834417548090216554557864463 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Kristian Biss (Mfr Voll Name) <Kristian.Biss@piraten-mfr.de>; Trotzik (Bei Zeus die Dicken schon wieder) <trotzik@piraten-mfr.de>; '
~ 27 minutes ~
07:51 mircea_popescu !!key JonDough
07:51 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/4681799E4A3839FB6267BA99698534526C751CD3
08:02 mircea_popescu trinque ^ 404 ?
~ 21 minutes ~
08:24 phf !#vulpes
08:24 a111 JUST UN FUCKING KINK IT
08:24 phf !#vulpes
08:24 a111 a BUILDING full of feeble minded liberals
08:24 shinohai lel
08:25 mircea_popescu !#phf
08:25 mircea_popescu oh I SEE HOW IT IS
08:25 phf get yo own bot
08:25 mircea_popescu our democracy is based on love!
08:26 shinohai Censorship!
08:26 mircea_popescu i wonder how long until they market the democrachip.
08:28 phf i think the word chip is ruined for marketing purposes by clipper
08:36 phf i moved into a new place closer to the lizards, had a funny exchange in the lobby. this lady "got lucky" and "bought a house at list price" because apparently "everyone's scared because of the upcoming impeachment".
08:36 mircea_popescu lmao
08:36 mircea_popescu i don't get it, there's a price higher than list ?
08:40 phf i will probably get this wrong, but as far as i understand, here houses are sold any arbitrary number above list, and it's whatever seller can get away with
08:41 mircea_popescu uh.
08:41 mircea_popescu why the fuck would anyone buy if they're not getting a discount from list.
08:42 mircea_popescu i guess i've been doing it wrong all these years ?!
08:43 mircea_popescu seems to go against the most basic logic -- if the asset is worth more than its list in your hands, why should i take over management ? clearly you know what you';re doing and should keep doing it.
08:44 mircea_popescu or what, you're going to tell me these prices aren't based on discounted cash flows and other such actuarial judgements ? in the world's greatest economy the world's smartest people acting like a bunch of nation of africa retards ? unthinkabru!
08:44 phf it's an investment in your future and the future of your family
08:46 mircea_popescu yes, if you buy it at a discount.
08:46 mircea_popescu otherwise it's an investment in the other guy and his fambly.
08:47 phf it's an excellent place to raise the kids, have you consulted with your wife?
08:48 phf in this market the price is only going to go up, so you can flip the house when you are ready for retirement
08:48 mircea_popescu i dun has a wife ;/
08:49 mircea_popescu but i do occasionally buy at list price, for small occasionals like say when going out to a restaurant. i could have the slavegirls replicate anything on the menu, and it would come out even better half the time, but unless i care it's not worth the hassle.
08:49 mircea_popescu who the fuck buys large or repeating items at list and why the everfucking love would they.
08:50 mircea_popescu i don't imagine these people are all trillionaires and so couldn't possibly care less about a million-ish item, chiefly because the us has no trillionaires.
08:57 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-fixed-phpminiadmin-v-19170312/ << Trilema - How I fixed phpMiniAdmin (v 1.9.170312)
08:58 mircea_popescu ^ take that, asciilifeform ! ha-HA!
09:00 * asciilifeform reads
09:01 mircea_popescu javascript idiots actually implemented base64 as "btoa" and "atob".
09:01 mircea_popescu WORST. fucking function names. ever.
09:01 mircea_popescu i spent five whole minutes belabouring under the misapprehension that it's metasyntactic reference, some sort of prototype and you gotta replace the a and b.
09:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what does the proggy actually do ?
09:02 mircea_popescu which makes no sense, except NEITHER DOES ANYTHING ELSE THEY DO
09:02 asciilifeform i've not used it
09:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform web interface, prepopulates selects and etc so you don't have to type them.
09:02 asciilifeform aah
09:02 mircea_popescu also loads various infos on screen so you don't keep having to go "explain x" to see what x.table is ACTUYALLY named
09:03 asciilifeform high-tech
09:03 asciilifeform all i got is a txt full of schema and various crib sheet...
09:03 mircea_popescu it's a cannonical example of what gui is/needs to be, obviously command line works but fuck me, really, i will type select so and so by hand each time all the time ?
09:04 asciilifeform !!up ave1
09:04 deedbot ave1 voiced for 30 minutes.
09:04 ave1 Hello, I've been reading the ffa code
09:05 ave1 I've come up with this mod-exp function:
09:05 ave1 http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rXBLV/?raw=true
09:05 asciilifeform your square is needlessly slow
09:05 ave1 It's a basic adaptation of what you can find on the web
09:05 asciilifeform aha
09:06 ave1 Yes I was thinking that too
09:06 ave1 (about the square)
09:06 asciilifeform only reason i haven't posted one yet is the square, presently making a proper one
09:06 asciilifeform otherwise looks quite like yours, ave1
09:06 asciilifeform who, incidentally, might you be, ave1 ?
09:06 ave1 aha, I also tried division first
09:07 ave1 Just reader of the logs for past year or so
09:07 asciilifeform maybe register with deedbot, delurk ?
09:07 ave1 yes I have registered...
09:07 mircea_popescu !!key ave1
09:07 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/57EE94EA6F2049A47DAFA8568F4CE8F777BC59F9.asc
09:07 mircea_popescu !!rate ave1 1 slow square!
09:07 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iHm49/?raw=true
09:07 asciilifeform lol
09:07 ave1 my division was many times slower (as I did a shift N left on every iteration)
09:07 asciilifeform latest posted ver has division btw.
09:08 mircea_popescu how to ensure a rating ? make it fucking irresistible lol.
09:08 ave1 I noticed, very elegant
09:08 mircea_popescu ave1 you can self-voice now, say !!up to deedbot whenever.
09:08 ave1 many thx mircea!
09:09 ave1 at least trying first, made understanding it a lot easier
09:10 asciilifeform ave1, mod6 , phf , et al -- http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MlSwC/?raw=true << most recent.
09:10 mircea_popescu and appreciating it also.
09:11 ave1 yes
09:11 * mircea_popescu suspects this may well be alf's favourite passtime. the endless field of register-clever, like a sort of chess.
09:12 asciilifeform !!rate ave1 1 ada lurker
09:12 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tYWMC/?raw=true
09:13 asciilifeform !!v 9098459089A87712E2E8DDDCD679D58F5C31000BF385454A18A68F812A5BE23F
09:13 deedbot asciilifeform rated ave1 1 << ada lurker
09:17 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-fixed-phpminiadmin-v-19170312/#comment-122063 << holy shit almighty, would you look at that ?
09:17 mircea_popescu i had to talk of javascript. who the fuck thinks like this, i wish to know, "oh, i'll htmlencode a string and then replace some of the escaped items".
09:19 mircea_popescu inb4 "it's because unicode, mp!"
09:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's the idiotlang where ~all you get is string transforms
09:24 * asciilifeform was reading, for lulz, a js bignumatron , a few days ago, and marveling at the sheer wtf
09:24 mircea_popescu imo the lang is fine, the unicode is bullshit, in this case.
09:24 asciilifeform incidentally there can be no question of fixed-time ops in there
09:24 mircea_popescu numbers, diff story.
09:25 mircea_popescu heh, nevermind fixed time -- no question of fixed result ops.
09:25 asciilifeform i'd rather write in befunge.
09:25 mircea_popescu maybe your 5+4 = 9.0000001, maybe .99999997, depends on arch
09:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657733 << y'know php, i naively thought that market for, say, key escrow, was also ruined by clipper. but turns out no! goxes, keybases, etc. abound.
09:26 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 12:28 phf: i think the word chip is ruined for marketing purposes by clipper
09:26 mircea_popescu ahahaha he called him php
09:26 asciilifeform lol!
09:27 asciilifeform phf ^
09:27 asciilifeform them fingers betray.
09:27 Framedragger lang is fine??? i will remind peeps of http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/towashitallaway.html
09:27 Framedragger Number.prototype.valueOf = function(){return 42;};
09:27 mircea_popescu Framedragger "imo the lang is fine, the unicode is bullshit, ~in this case~. numbers, diff story."
09:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657734 << apparently this is the new fecal consensus -- nyt et al running 24/7 ads 'impeach nao!111' etc
09:27 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 12:36 phf: i moved into a new place closer to the lizards, had a funny exchange in the lobby. this lady "got lucky" and "bought a house at list price" because apparently "everyone's scared because of the upcoming impeachment".
09:27 Framedragger now every number equals 42! everywhere, on your whole site / 'app'!
09:27 Framedragger mircea_popescu: ah yeah kk, terms
09:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657737 << as i understand it, house 'buying' (virtually nobody actually buys , in usa, they take out massive mortgage) by a human, is not a financial transaction in the usual sense, in the sense you buy petrol . it is instead a fat-harvesting transaction, where you pay 100% of what the lizards weigh you to be worth.
09:30 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 12:40 phf: i will probably get this wrong, but as far as i understand, here houses are sold any arbitrary number above list, and it's whatever seller can get away with
09:31 asciilifeform ( granted this is different for 'investors' who buy'em up by the 1000. speaking here of humans who want place to live. )
09:31 mircea_popescu in qntra news today, https://мвд.рф/news/item/10246388/
09:32 asciilifeform lol!!!
09:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't comprehend this logic. how exactly is economy supposed to cease functioning once you enter your own door ? does water, strictly flowing downhill at the office, change its mind at home ? do you see it jump out of the sink, against gravity, and figure "oh, but of course, i'm not at work anymore duh!"
09:33 mircea_popescu seems to me same old thermodynamics applies at "work" and at "home". maybe i've just not had the right wife yet ?
09:33 asciilifeform it's the logic of big-G constant. planet -- can hold atmosphere; piece of orbital rubbish - not.
09:34 mircea_popescu this'd seem to explain why the redditards are single, as opposed to harem'd. not why they're poor.
09:34 asciilifeform why are auschwitz inmates poor ?
09:34 asciilifeform same concept.
09:34 asciilifeform there's a harvester, it harvests, wat.
09:35 mircea_popescu i don't see it. piece of orbital rubbish 1/10^9 of planet doesn't go "you know what, your force isn't enough to move planet a meter, but i'll move 2*10^9 meters because hey, i'm just piece of rubbish not planet!
09:35 mircea_popescu you want to lift a gram, you need a mN just like if you want to move a ton you need 1kN. there's no tiny discounts.
09:38 asciilifeform real estate is quantized, asciilifeform can't go and buy a ~usable~ square metre of land for 1000 $
09:39 mircea_popescu and from this it follows asciilifeform will go and donate $1k to "real estate quantizer" ?
09:39 mircea_popescu if you can't buy, it just means IT CANT SELL.
09:39 asciilifeform not directly. but it follows that he will sit on 1000 $ until it gets eaten by inflation ( or alternatively vodka, or whichever )
09:39 mircea_popescu even leaving bitcoin aside, there's obviously bangladesh.
09:39 mircea_popescu or w/e, north korea, i guess.
09:40 asciilifeform 'hi, this is pyongyang? i'ma a schmuck in usa, i want to buy a square metre'
09:40 asciilifeform 'whaddayamean you only take gold dubloons'
09:40 mircea_popescu you'd go and see the square metre in wash swamp, if you were to buy it, yes ?
09:40 mircea_popescu same principle.
09:41 mircea_popescu and i have like a suspicion north korea would take dollars if available.
09:41 asciilifeform physical dollars - possibly
09:41 mircea_popescu so then.
09:41 asciilifeform upstack -- point is that nobody's about to run city pipes to a square metre.
09:42 mircea_popescu it's utterly unclear waht your chosen straw man has to do with the discussion, but anyway.
09:42 asciilifeform ( recall marvin heemeyer aka 'killdozer' d00d and his encircled machine shop ? apparently rules re 'easements' are complicated. )
09:43 asciilifeform i dun see how this is unclear, if i walk into bezzlebroker with 1% of what house costs, i can't walk out with 1% of a house.
09:43 mircea_popescu the discussion was re buying at list / retail is for suckers / buying assets implicitly means they are discounted / stuff like that.
09:44 asciilifeform can't disagree here
09:44 mircea_popescu the core is the simple observation that if your trade value of whatever item is above book value, you should continue to manage it, not me.
09:44 asciilifeform the only negotiating leverage available to the plebe, however, is not to buy. at all.
09:44 mircea_popescu because obviously you're doing a good job of it.
09:44 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657756 << naming scheme possibly lifted from c's `atoi`, heh
09:44 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 13:01 mircea_popescu: WORST. fucking function names. ever.
09:44 mircea_popescu wtf is atoi
09:44 asciilifeform which turns out is not actually a button that's connected. by paying mega-rent, asciilifeform is buying OTHER d00d a house.
09:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: string to int
09:44 mod6 ascii to int
09:45 mircea_popescu ...
09:45 mircea_popescu so what"s atoi("hurr") ?
09:45 asciilifeform eggog
09:45 Framedragger is itoa implemented in stdlib by default, then, as expected? NO! because fuck you
09:45 mircea_popescu i have nfi what this is. so what does it do, changes the string 9 to the numeral 9 ?
09:45 Framedragger literally eggog (undefined)
09:45 mod6 mircea_popescu: ya
09:45 Framedragger it spits back an int if it can parse the ascii string into one
09:46 Framedragger otherwise fucks your wife
09:46 mircea_popescu and "9.5 10^8" too ? or other random formats ?
09:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is literally free to produce whatever rubbish it likes. because this is somehow useful to the folx who were dropped as children and wrote unix.
09:46 Framedragger only base 10 digits iirc
09:46 mircea_popescu apparently they DID lift it from there then.
09:46 mircea_popescu heck, might've lifted whole language from this paradigm.
09:47 Framedragger the best take from the best
09:47 mircea_popescu apparently i lived a whole life without doing these strange conversions.
09:47 Framedragger well yes, JS is a mixture of things, Self, C, etc, the best mixture of them all
09:47 mircea_popescu is it actually stdlib ?
09:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379892 << see also oblig-naggum
09:47 a111 Logged on 2016-01-21 17:28 asciilifeform: it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?'
09:47 Framedragger mircea_popescu: one is stdlib, the other one (itoa iirc) is not!
09:48 mircea_popescu i learned c at some point, but this left no trace somehow.
09:48 Framedragger in which we realise mircea_popescu's source of sanity
09:48 mircea_popescu forgetfulness ?
09:49 Framedragger gc!
09:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657831 << i dun wanna let this slip by . so : '12 May , the dept. of IT and information defense of the ru ministry of internal affairs detected a malware attack against PCs belonging to the ministry which were running Windows.',
09:50 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 13:31 mircea_popescu: in qntra news today, https://мвд.рф/news/item/10246388/
09:51 asciilifeform 'On account of timely measures, about a thousand infected machines were blocked off , which constituted less than 1%'. (?)
09:51 Framedragger (related, via punkman http://boingboing.net/2017/05/17/prophylactic-bricking.html )
09:51 mircea_popescu o hey, check it out, elbrus running java.
09:51 mircea_popescu 1/3 < 1/100
09:51 asciilifeform 'Servers belonging to the ministry were not infected on account of the use of alternative operating system and natively produced servers using the ru elbrus cpu'
09:52 asciilifeform 'currently the activity of the virus is localized. leakage of official information from ministry machines is wholly ruled out, quoth the official representative of same, ...'
09:52 asciilifeform etc.
09:52 mircea_popescu is this per hectare ?
09:55 asciilifeform 'the real nexus of this photo is the government official with the "you've got to be kidding me" expression, who exists in a power-structure that requires solemn professions of belief in this powerful weirdo's dumb rituals (including, but not limited to, spraying electronic devices with water, and not because a computer that has been rendered inoperable due to electrical faults is incidentally and thoroughly immune to malware)' >>>>>
09:55 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=428
09:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have nfi re the actual meaning of the linked text. simply translated.
09:58 mircea_popescu back in the old days, all the successes used to be per hectare ;/
09:58 asciilifeform it is an obvious product of people who have nfi what the subject matter even is, and simply pasted fragments in microshit word together.
09:58 Framedragger mircea_popescu: just fyi, the site (osalabs.com) loads - you don't have a root CA which signed their certificate (letsencrypt cert). of course the point is still valid
09:59 mircea_popescu why should they know. they just want to wifechildrenhome amirite.
09:59 mircea_popescu Framedragger awww.
09:59 mircea_popescu he missed out on getting a trilema link because of the letsencrypt bs ?
09:59 mircea_popescu well, i can only hope they're paying him enough to compensate.
10:00 asciilifeform iirc it was (is?) this thing that gives away ssl certs for phree
10:00 mircea_popescu "girl missed out on date because someone gave out garbage for free and she rubbed it all over. FREE!!111"
10:01 asciilifeform in protest against the nonsense where people ( who insisted on using ssl, but originally this was made mandatory for users of visa ) had to pay rentseeking hucksters thousands for 'this cert will work and browsers won't complain'
10:01 mircea_popescu so is visa paying oleg enough to compensate him for the loss of trilema link ?
10:01 asciilifeform i have nfi why folx volunteer to use ssl.
10:02 mircea_popescu apparently, for same reason they buy real estate above list price.
10:02 mircea_popescu something something wife something something fambly, something something alt-universe at home where water flows uphill.
10:03 Framedragger i've seen ~sane uses of ssl, with self-signed pinned cert (verified via side channel). it happens.
10:03 Framedragger yesyes, the whole format is broken, yes EC, so basically almost as bad as bitcoin :)
10:04 mircea_popescu what, ec with arbitrary curves ?
10:04 mircea_popescu there's layers to this ec story.
10:04 asciilifeform Framedragger: format is broken in ways that dun even have to do with crypto (e.g. toggles for silently turning off whatever elements)
10:04 Framedragger i don't recall but i believe you can define ~all the params for DH key exchange in ssl, i think
10:04 asciilifeform plus heartbleeds etc.
10:04 Framedragger as an example
10:04 asciilifeform it's a multi-meg atrocity, it is broken DEFINITIONALLY
10:04 Framedragger there is that
10:05 Framedragger anyway, why mircea_popescu prefers one shit-CA over the other, i'm not sure
10:05 mircea_popescu i have no idea why the specifics need even be discussed. who cares WHAT was in the dumpster girly put on her head ? point remains, FREE!!11 is a garbage heuristic.
10:05 mircea_popescu i do ?
10:05 mircea_popescu dude, archive.is can't load his dumbass site. what do you want from me.
10:05 Framedragger you have some CA roots, therefore you (implicitly or explicitly) prefer some, neh?
10:06 mircea_popescu i don't even care, myself!
10:06 Framedragger it can't? it loaded it for me! huh
10:06 mircea_popescu really ?
10:06 mircea_popescu link ?
10:06 Framedragger https://archive.is/Yzbbj
10:06 mircea_popescu isn't that from years ago ?
10:07 mircea_popescu nevermind the 2015. gimme a 2017 version.
10:08 Framedragger hah, it's loading but seems to be stuck. lol
10:08 mircea_popescu and in general -- if curl -k can't get you, you really don't exist.
10:08 Framedragger yesyes.
10:08 Framedragger yup, archive.is failed on new site
10:08 Framedragger ic.
10:09 Framedragger i wonder if it's due to the cert. probably yes. yeah, sad!
10:10 mircea_popescu why the fuck would some kid want his blog on https is anyone's guess.
10:11 mircea_popescu "oh, it has advantages!11". i'm sure it does. you also miss out on trilema links. let me know when those advantages even it out.
10:11 mircea_popescu "oh but mp, you wouldn't be linking to me anyway" "and this says what about you ?"
10:12 Framedragger that i don't understand, either. all them web designers, too, gotta protect those PNGs in transit
10:13 Framedragger (but i thought this protects me from gobmint spying!)
10:13 mircea_popescu and in other random, apparently the proper way to say chocolate in cr is xocolata.
10:13 mircea_popescu shit's fabulous though.
10:13 Framedragger (virtue signalling i suppose)
10:14 mircea_popescu it absolutely is that, just like the unthinking http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657708 bullshit.
10:14 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 01:52 ben_vulpes: on a floor where very nearly every door features a black lives matter and "in our democracy love wins"
10:16 * mircea_popescu used to have a very poor reaction / low tolerance to ineptitude in that vein "oh i shouldnt end up naked on the first date" from chicks who saw stupid americana on tv and imagined it's an example to follow back when he was 16. it deteriorated over time.
~ 50 minutes ~
11:06 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657821 << for extra lulz, Framedragger , that thing turns to liquishit on all browsers, on all of my boxes
11:06 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 13:27 Framedragger: lang is fine??? i will remind peeps of http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/towashitallaway.html
11:06 asciilifeform or at least all tried thus far. ( i suspect that it doesn't like vertical display )
11:07 asciilifeform surprising number of gui proggies -- don't
11:07 asciilifeform almost as if they have a if (xres < yres) barf()
11:09 mircea_popescu wtf is it, pdf in html ?
11:09 Framedragger :(. it's a pdf-to-js'totron. myeah.
11:09 Framedragger pdf almost saner in this instance. fwiw i did try with lynx, it showed the text. but yeah.
11:09 asciilifeform the funny bit is that i have 0 problem reading actual pdf, even have dedicated hardware for it
11:09 asciilifeform but this nonsense -- no
11:10 mircea_popescu dude check it out!
11:10 Framedragger it'd really be great if there were a ~decent pdf2html tool, with no JS. and i don't mean just "extract and dump plaintext", i can do that, too.
11:10 mircea_popescu m8{transform:matrix(0.237500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.237500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.237500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m4{transform:matrix(0.245000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.245000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.245000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m2{transform:matrix(0.247500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.247500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.247500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m0{transform:matrix(0.250000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.250000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.250000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m3{transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m7{transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m1{transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu .m6{transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
11:10 mircea_popescu why THE FUCK does this exist ?
11:11 Framedragger preserve fonts and pdf formatting? yeahyeah.
11:11 mircea_popescu are you kidding me ?
11:11 mircea_popescu !!up moli_
11:11 deedbot moli_ voiced for 30 minutes.
11:11 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657897 << "due to heroic actions of Praporshchik Sidorenko, the aggressor has been neutralized, but unfortunately resulted in death of selfsame praporshchik, who will be awarded a medal posthumously, and his vdova will receive 500 rubbles in recognition of his heroism"
11:11 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 13:51 asciilifeform: 'On account of timely measures, about a thousand infected machines were blocked off , which constituted less than 1%'. (?)
11:11 mircea_popescu matrix transforms, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591144 and on it goes
11:11 a111 Logged on 2016-12-27 17:44 mircea_popescu: holy shit "Quaternion.Euler" is a full blown core function. and wait, there's more : http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/765683/when-to-use-quaternion-vs-euler-angles.html
11:11 mircea_popescu basically webtards fucking love math or what is it ?
11:12 Framedragger guess so.
11:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform still lem ?
11:13 mircea_popescu Framedragger a cursory look at the pile (complete, btw) makes it obvious matrices were not the correct approach for this problem, whatever it might have been.
11:14 mircea_popescu there's also one thousand lines of spurious nonsense in the vein of .x3e{left:412.722800pt;}
11:15 mircea_popescu really, six digit pt ?
11:16 mircea_popescu and THEN the WHOLE thing is five lines of div id="pf1" class="pf w0 h0" data-page-no="1"><div class="pc pc1 w0 h0"><img class="bi x0 y0 w1 h1" alt="" src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAABC4AAAWfCAIAAADrrCCVAAAACXBIWXMAABYlAAAWJQFJUiTwAAAgAElEQVR42uzdW5Mjx5n/9zzVAUCju+dAUlpqJfmvXa/DYb8IvwiH354vfOkX5QuHI/6SOJzpA1BVmfk8vsBwOBoOyUaiqlDo/n5idyNE7Qy7C4XM/OXhSauq5pKlrhs+3J3yN/i2bW6uDQDgku3++9+P/SOrt2+s9zw6ADgXxyMAAFw6
11:16 mircea_popescu FSn4U9bRCQIAUQQAgJOySNEKv7U8OQAgigAAUC7HeHT/FwLPDQCIIgAAnEaOXhWxRBEAIIoAAHCiglURX1U8NwAgigAAcBJN6fgOkIMiAHBmLE8DAC6eHB9FWBUBgH+hmvr+6CzRtkQRAMAL7j2LKvlSPgsAvmhLj72sz7ftiVGEDVoAgEvvP0sq+XKpCAB8ruDQnT15pysNMQDgxXWfVPIFgC8dX4rQnbzTlSgCAHhx3SeVfAHgCyXTOt4TRQAAdJ/H4cw6AHyhoBTh6TtdiSIAgBfXfVLJFwC+UFCK0LIqAgCg+zz2j7AqAgCfKyxFeDKiCADgovvPkvJZVPIFgBPbUl/XRBEAwMvuPYtm8qjkCwCfKzh0Z8ZoSGmLAQAXTFI+uuejfBYAfNmYHr8q0rAqAgB42VSPXhWhki8AfKHkf
11:16 mircea_popescu kPLqggA4IV3n/1wdM8XPM8NAD5XUIpwlLaUKAIAuGTHnxU5vfokADy3pvQcl4oQRQAAly0PBasibNACgJ8VVvIdoxQhUQQAcLn9Z0klX0slXwA4rS0dpZIvUQQAcMm9Z1klXzZoAcBnCkoRmpFKohNFAAAvqPvkRhEA+EJBKcJRKvkSRQAAL6v7dCNtKgCAZ6OgFOEolXyJIgCAl9V9UskXAL50/GbXsdpSoggA4AV1nxwUAYAvFJQitJwVAQDQfR7d7VHJFwA+V1SK0IxUipAoAgB4Qd0nlXwB4F+a0pLdWaPN6RBFAAAvpfs0bNACgH9VUoqQKAIAIIoc3X1SyRcAvmhLCyr5VhVRBADwokk+eiaPSr4A8IWCUoTGjbbTldN7l5xiRX65VZq9B199RJLyp9Bvrfu8Ah1PbOkf4mfDTR
11:16 mircea_popescu X5fPTpQvi075/P8SVGkRiP/SPWXeRBka+29uawyMPRl5+eT/7N9+FTy89DM6q/tqJIQ/pSG9NzrooQRS5jKHYYSR9ia+66J+XVEGwILnjrvQvBef8SGl/NOceY+0FTkpSO+FLVtXHOV5WrgvWeXRxn+ewOSUNiVFEZhrKDdDYEPscXMwA9+ti6G6/7nGhIrSKS0rHfgk8tmPX+0OzT1P/OE2tbF7wLlavCM24oDg/KiOYYjcgTK85Z51xdW2ddVb2c8cNLVlCKcMRXwmpZAa/FSF03fLg75W/wbdvcXC8uoKYkQ8x9X/J+/PoozdWVrxtfV8+pWVGRPAx53434rIwxYb0KbetCWMKz0pz3//zhxL9k9fbNogYohz5SYpQhlg0mnvg5Pr93Hge7//73Y/9I+/rV0tLIp1F1Wfz+jXDim8b
11:16 mircea_popescu V1fMpXqyah5i67onzcUeMhJwL65VvmufwrFQlpTwMuetHbFddCL5tXKiW05YWdItLGO+V9ebr776decAwm+pqw6rIwhJIPLSz/Ygd0r/Em5TSbn/opcJ6fenjs9wP8eFholFs2u0/PavqarPwydSLecMnyNhP/BxdCNXVlW84KvCiLWf+W1LKfZ92+ylae2NMHobDt+wZjLMPPePhizzJ6FAkPjzGh8fDs6rW64vrGVVEYkq73URNq6QkD+nTgL5ar87eJ+bL3J850ff9X9PoJa0xWO+JIkuZxkh9H+8fZnhHv+ilDs3uha3mq8bdLj48zves3g2X20U
11:16 mircea_popescu tell you what, if i wanted to put uncacheable pngs somewhere on the web, i'd have NOT needed 1k lines of six decimal place pt specifications nor inept matrices and their useless transforms.
11:16 phf pretty much as close as it gets to pdf-izing html
11:16 mircea_popescu next time just load the fucking images, as images, like trilema does it.
11:18 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657972
11:18 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:10 Framedragger: it'd really be great if there were a ~decent pdf2html tool, with no JS. and i don't mean just "extract and dump plaintext", i can do that, too.
11:18 Framedragger maybe i missed it.
11:18 phf that transform:matrix is the "standard" way of doing object positioning and movement (they displacement is optimized in gpu, so if you're actually moving objects around it's faster then css x,y positioning)
11:19 mircea_popescu and if you aren't actually moving objects around, it's just dead weight.
11:19 phf i'm not sure why jump through these hoops for static content though. position:absolute; left: top: still work
11:20 mircea_popescu similarily to how the millionth fraction of a pt is meaningful if you print a km sq picture of all the cunts of all the women currently alive and then intend to go check out the indvidual ingrown hairs with a magnifying glass.
11:20 moli_ hi thanks for voicing, i just want to let you guys know bamb0u has been smearing your name on bitcoin core slack
11:21 mircea_popescu of course the cunts in question wouldn't actually be fonts, but anyway. wtf-8.
11:21 mircea_popescu moli_ what's a bitcoin core slack ?
11:21 moli_ it's a stupid slack to house people like bamb0u
11:21 mircea_popescu so then what's the problem.
11:22 moli_ nothing, how you doing, mircea_popescu ? you've been quiet on the media
11:22 mircea_popescu Framedragger you are aware that item does nothing whatsoever, you could have published screenshots for the same effect.
11:22 Framedragger in retrospect i *should* have published screenshots. at this rate original pdf is sorta-better.
11:22 Framedragger :(
11:23 mircea_popescu moli_ i think the media's just as petrified of saying my name today as years ago.
11:23 moli_ i really hope so
11:23 mircea_popescu anyway, there was a sort-of working js to txt item alf was demonstrating at some point. i dun recall where it ended up.
11:25 mircea_popescu !!up gargantus
11:25 deedbot gargantus voiced for 30 minutes.
11:28 Framedragger mircea_popescu: yes, to text yes, hence why i said plaintext is the easy part ^. but you're right, maybe text is the way to go in these shitcases...
11:28 mircea_popescu i can't imagine why it wouldn't be.
11:29 Framedragger for one, there are some lulzy screenshots showing the insanity of JS event loop, and exceptions, and css rendering, etc.
11:29 Framedragger but myeah.
11:29 mircea_popescu really. i don't want to watch some dork on video. i don't want to watch his stupid slides. i don't want to watch his facebook. really all this "rich content", diagrams-hyelogryphs-bs is only there because illiterate monkey has nothing to say.
11:30 Framedragger i disagree that visuals cannot add more than text all of the time. best way to depict broken css rendering is to depict it.
11:30 Framedragger of course, usually the medium is misused - sure.
11:30 mircea_popescu depict in as what, adding some screenshots in the text ?
11:31 Framedragger yes
11:31 Framedragger i see yer point :)
11:31 mircea_popescu the content is never the problem. it always and universally goes to shit when they attempt to control ~the consumption~ of content. hence drm and css, hence return mid paragraph "because i don't want YOU to scroll horizontally" etc.
11:31 mircea_popescu all of it is the same thing, a deeply misguided attempt to control the reception of the message. focus on the fucking message.
11:32 mircea_popescu i'll receive it as i'll receive it, that's my problem.
11:33 mircea_popescu girls going "i don't know how to tell you this" are in for a beating on the strength of that alone, meanwhile whole generation of dorks having not much to say at all fretting ineptly about ~the way~ they're saying it / "presenting themselves" expect this to somehow work.
11:33 mircea_popescu it dun work, it's just that nobody loves them enough to beat them for it.
11:35 mircea_popescu and for the record, soap operas, action movies, talk shows etc haven't replaced literature strictly because there's no way to say "we're in the business of emission, make your own fucking receiver sets" when it comes to television. that and no more.
11:43 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657992 << nah, standard formulation
11:43 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still lem ?
11:43 mircea_popescu i thought that's what a lem is.
11:43 asciilifeform lem was this polish d00d
11:43 mircea_popescu and theo rem was german!
11:44 asciilifeform !~google stanislaw lem
11:44 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Stanisław Lem - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%25C5%2582aw_Lem>; List of works by Stanisław Lem and their adaptations - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Stanis%25C5%2582aw_Lem_and_their_adaptations>; Stanislaw Lem : the official site: <https://lem.pl/>
11:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm just fucking around!
11:44 asciilifeform lolk
11:44 asciilifeform i have no doubt mircea_popescu knew . but for l0gz/n00bs ^ subj.
11:44 mircea_popescu i'm bitter because i misidentified some quote a while back
11:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657972 << this is a mis-priored problem and will have atrocious 'solutions', guaranteed.
11:44 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:10 Framedragger: it'd really be great if there were a ~decent pdf2html tool, with no JS. and i don't mean just "extract and dump plaintext", i can do that, too.
11:45 asciilifeform it's a little bit like asking for a nonsense-to-sense converter.
11:45 mircea_popescu babbage did it!
11:45 asciilifeform lolaha.
11:46 mircea_popescu incidentally, that's prolly the only acceptable definition of intelligence.
11:46 mircea_popescu "only nonsense-to-sense converter known in nature"
11:47 mircea_popescu suddenly puts the ai as digital-machine-intelligence problem in its proper perspective, and also supplies a very good explanation for the genysym issue. people going think() are ACTUALLY approaching the river at the other end.
11:47 mircea_popescu the reason our brains work and computers don't is, to a significant portion, that our brains actually define what PASSES FOR sense.
11:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658008 << idea was, you ~are~ 'moving' objects by asking them to be laid out on a display of unknown (to author) resolution. this began as a ~sane 'postscript' and bloviated into a usgologic monstrosity, pdf
11:47 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:19 mircea_popescu: and if you aren't actually moving objects around, it's just dead weight.
11:47 asciilifeform but the PROBLEM was an intrinsically WRONG problem to have to begin with
11:48 mircea_popescu and whyssat ?
11:48 asciilifeform it isn't a thing which anyone, outside a printing house perhaps, has any business doing on a regular basis.
11:48 mircea_popescu oh, because everyone watches the internet on standard issue tvs ?
11:48 asciilifeform well no, because (originally) reflowtron.
11:49 mircea_popescu hm ?
11:49 asciilifeform it was actually mircea_popescu who convinced me of this. that reflowable text was a step in right direction.
11:49 mircea_popescu but this wasn't a core item in the original was it ?
11:49 asciilifeform which original ? postscript ? it was intended for printer
11:50 mircea_popescu yes, ps.
11:50 asciilifeform because printer ( of the print house variety, not asciilifeform's old rattler ) takes pages, not scroll
11:50 mircea_popescu while i think it's broadly true that ps yielded tex and pdf in world and gutter respectively, it's not clear the ps folk understood reflow, or generally speaking the problem they were trying to approach.
11:51 mircea_popescu more of a "i just wanna my printer to"
11:51 asciilifeform tex predates
11:51 mircea_popescu as usage i mean, not as the item.
11:51 asciilifeform ps had 0 to do with reflow, it was specifically made for nonreflowing ( bounded layout ) devices
11:53 asciilifeform asciilifeform's theory -- we got pdf (postscript on comp display, really) because of the barfalicious failures of the www folx ( html etc )
11:53 mircea_popescu anyway ; afaik the whole reason tex exists is because sometime in early 80s/ late 70s knuth got some galley proofs from the new photo process and hated them
11:53 mircea_popescu those galley proofs were made in a pre-ps.
11:53 asciilifeform pre-tex, typesetting was ~manual process
11:53 mircea_popescu nah.
11:54 asciilifeform and folx with 5th grade education were typesetting equations etc
11:54 mircea_popescu there WAS the molten metal tech, same as what they printed the 1929 nyt on. but cca 1970s it was replaced by photo
11:54 asciilifeform 'manual' i did not mean 'same as gutenberg'
11:54 mircea_popescu ftr knuth liked the first edition (metal), hated 2nd.
11:54 asciilifeform but 'not direct loop from mathematician to photosetter'
11:54 asciilifeform i.e. an unwanted set of human hands in between.
11:55 mircea_popescu phototypesetting, it's a thing, uses lenses instead of lead.
11:55 asciilifeform aha
11:55 asciilifeform ( phunphakt : troff originally was a driver for one )
11:55 mircea_popescu and they had you know, linotypes and stuff. dedicated computrons.
11:55 mircea_popescu (including the only items with pit style monitors, other than in alfs home, that i ever knew of.)
11:56 mircea_popescu anyway. afaik that's what ps came from.
11:58 asciilifeform the ~physical~ process of typesetting had already matured then, aha
11:58 asciilifeform (today it is approx. same as then)
11:58 asciilifeform tex was concerned with the ~logical~ end.
11:59 asciilifeform ditto postscript (dealt with other end of the funnel -- the low-level pixel-pushing, rather than 'what to do with equations')
11:59 mircea_popescu point being, there was some software running the crap knuth didn't like, wrote replacement.
11:59 mircea_popescu but, postscript is NOT the invention of some adobe dorks. postscript was a thing cca 1976, and stolen, ~wholly, from already existing print process, by eg warnock.
12:00 phf how's that?
12:00 mircea_popescu which is what i mean. ps (that eventually yielded pdf, and also what you apparently think is ps) yielded tex through knuth's reaction to it.
12:01 asciilifeform by same logic could say it was stolen from chuck moore's forth
12:01 mircea_popescu phf how's what ? dude at some company was trying to print geodata.
12:01 asciilifeform it was not a wholly unprecedented item, no.
12:01 asciilifeform very much a synthesis-invention
12:01 mircea_popescu it was entirely not novel.
12:02 mircea_popescu the adobe ps is the warnock wtf he called it, system something or the other. xerox parc also had something, of course, but it died out.
12:02 mircea_popescu (ie, they hired warnock, he rewrote it for them)
12:06 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658022 << iirc it was just a sh script to rasterize the pages to jpegs ! a la http://www.loper-os.org/pub/hl/hl.html .
12:06 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, there was a sort-of working js to txt item alf was demonstrating at some point. i dun recall where it ended up.
12:07 asciilifeform this a) sucks for text, can no longer search, cut/paste but b) for most of my pdf this is ALREADY so, because they were ancient scans
12:07 asciilifeform funnily enough the problem of 'how to store scans without losing ANYTHING' was long ago solved : 'djvu' (ancient bell labs thing, i use it every day)
12:07 asciilifeform wavelet compressor.
12:07 Framedragger incidentally that ^ looks like an interesting piece on automata!
12:08 asciilifeform Framedragger: we had entire thread, re subj
12:08 asciilifeform and extensions thereof
12:08 Framedragger nice.
12:09 asciilifeform djvu has some annoying quirks ( lossy compressor, so sometimes, e.g., И turns into Н on entire page ) but otherwise mindblowingly great tech, a scan that'd be 400M in pdf, can be 4 , and actually uses the res of whatever display you have, incl. printer, to display ~= original
12:09 mircea_popescu text shouldn't have backwards N in it anyway.
12:09 asciilifeform but it is narrowly specific to scans. doesn't do vector-graphics a la postscript
12:10 asciilifeform lol
12:10 mircea_popescu :D
12:10 Framedragger lol GoL in excel (via trinque) http://www.tushar-mehta.com/publish_train/xl_vba_cases/0906%20conways%20game%20of%20life.shtml
12:11 Framedragger yeah djvu is great for what it does. never bothered to check how it actually worx, wavelet compressor, cool.
12:11 asciilifeform Framedragger: 'hashlife' was interesting because there are not so many 'martian' breakthroughs -- multiple-orders-of-magnitude speedups -- in algo world.
12:12 asciilifeform and it was one.
12:12 Framedragger aha yeah vaguely recall. "can actually skip states!!" thing
12:12 asciilifeform ( prototyped, incidentally, on a bolix lispm )
12:12 asciilifeform Framedragger: time-space compressor.
12:13 trinque Framedragger: did I link this abomination or what?
12:13 Framedragger i believe so :) http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-24#892946
12:13 a111 Logged on 2014-10-24 15:06 undata: http://www.tushar-mehta.com/publish_train/xl_vba_cases/0906%20conways%20game%20of%20life.shtml
12:14 trinque lol!
12:14 phf oddly enough djvu is hated in angloworld (something something patents), but most of the archives of soviet written material is in djvu
12:14 mircea_popescu gutenberg et all offer it.
12:14 Framedragger asciilifeform: checked, yeah pretty amazing, damn; obviously lots of memory overhead depending on noise/entropy, but point is that it was actually something new, as you say, not just any optimisation
12:15 asciilifeform sane folx piss kerosene on patents and then light it
12:15 asciilifeform ( and fwiw, iirc the wavelet patents expired long ago )
12:16 asciilifeform Framedragger: aha, one of the most jaw-dropping optimizations in history of the field, afaik.
12:17 asciilifeform makes the difference b/w, e.g., sieve of eratosthenes factoring, and modern factoring algos, look small.
12:17 mircea_popescu would be interesting to see what happens if $noob starts feeding old lines from someone in wot.
12:17 asciilifeform possibly the only example of something that comes close, that i know of , is bernstein's gcd
12:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this wasn't a 'shannonizer', but a thing that takes small state machine automaton and computes expansion of N steps 'impossibly' quickly
12:18 mircea_popescu no i know what hashlife is. was re above trinque surprise.
12:19 * asciilifeform has tried, on and off over the years, to generalize it to something more interesting, but so far not succeeded
12:19 asciilifeform lolk
12:19 mircea_popescu if you recal, was principal in gol start-up, we looked at ways to cheat.
12:19 asciilifeform aha
12:19 asciilifeform i dun recall, didja ever end up using it
12:20 phf i don't share the anti-postscript sentiment. i think it's a maxwell's equation of graphics programming. introduces idea of graphics state stack, with operations that happen inside state or in transition between state (e.g. "displace everything that i said so far by n pixels right") . pretty much all the graphics code (including for example opengl) is a variation on what postscript does. and most of the things postscript does simply doesn't make any sen
12:20 phf se in a physical printing world. i don't know any prior art to postscript, but i don't think publishing is it. most of the things postscript does simply doesn't make sense in a physical publishing
12:20 asciilifeform phf: henderson's method, was, ultimately, 'the maxwell's equations of graphics'
12:21 asciilifeform postscript is merely one half-baked incarnation.
12:21 mircea_popescu phf let me formalize the statement here.
12:21 phf asciilifeform: i'm not familiar
12:22 mircea_popescu 1. publishing, after having operated on hot (molten metal) process for almost a century, with gradual improvements, moved to a purely photographic alternative starting in 1960s and complete by 1975.
12:22 mircea_popescu 2. the alternative was run on digital machines, which ran software.
12:23 mircea_popescu 3. a fellow by the name warnock, while working on a forgotten company cca 1975, came up with ps, in the sense a fellow called nakamoto came up with bitcoin. he was at the time working on the problem of drawing maps.
12:23 mircea_popescu 4. the fellow named warnock was hired by xerox parc, which was also trying to get a publishing software package. he used HIS ps, to rewrite theirs.
12:24 mircea_popescu 5. the selfsame fellow named warnock, with some others, started out in early 80s, made a company named "adobe", wrote the third copy of the ~same ps item.
12:24 mircea_popescu 6. the item at 5 is what most people deem ps, but this is somewhat like thinking facebook invented php because it stole the sources and renamed them.
12:24 asciilifeform !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/Nbc3i << possible qntra
12:24 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
12:25 mircea_popescu 7. continuity of design and in principle exists throughout 2-5 ; implementations vary.
12:25 phf oh the functional geometry henderson
12:25 asciilifeform phf: aha
12:26 phf i think that might be a haskelism. a functional formalism 20 years after the original concept
12:26 mircea_popescu and yes, it can be said it all stands in the same relation to henderson & functional geometry as all the "gurus" and "experts" of the us school of management stand with skinner.
12:27 asciilifeform phf: 1982 !
12:27 phf well, correct. and postscript is early 70s
12:27 mircea_popescu mid 70s
12:28 asciilifeform as was the work henderson's paper stood on. imho this is a case of 'bell's telephone'
12:28 asciilifeform the tech was ~obvious.
12:28 mircea_popescu maybe. problem is everything's obvious.
12:28 asciilifeform not, evidently, everything.
12:28 phf which goes back to mircea_popescu's point of "nakamoto discovering bitcoin"
12:28 mircea_popescu you mean not, evidently, everywhere.
12:29 asciilifeform most folx who encounter, say, hashlife, even today go 'wtf, martian'
12:29 mircea_popescu the 2-3 transition may be argued as "oh, like i wouldn't have figured that twirl on my own anyway". nevertheless, the 2-5 continuity doth revolve around warnock fellow.
12:30 mircea_popescu now, in fairness, knuth had nfi of this, was deeply displeased by the poor quality of the image generated at the edge of this design graph, mostly due to cost saving and poor machinery, not substantially due to the item itself.
12:30 mircea_popescu but whatever.
12:32 asciilifeform knuth however was aware that raster photosetter ( a la modern process -- essentially laser printer ) had become a thing, vs old-fashioned ( essentially optoelectronic version of drum printer, with template wheels )
12:32 phf my point though is that i don't know an alternative to platonic postscript (which can be closely executed in adobe postscript, but also ghostscript, etc.) when it comes to doing graphics. in this case adobe postscript is a kind of c bitcoin
12:32 mircea_popescu depends of your idea of graphics. math-text graphics or juicy-tits graphics ?
12:32 asciilifeform vectorized graphics.
12:33 mircea_popescu tiff :D
12:33 asciilifeform lol
12:33 phf both, not necessarily vectorized!
12:34 asciilifeform briefly upstack : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658014 << i tracked down the heathen pit in question, for entomological purposes. the only possibly lulzy bit is that it turns out to be thestringpuller 's new home.
12:34 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:21 moli_: it's a stupid slack to house people like bamb0u
12:34 phf there are hacks in postscript that let you dump a raw pixel buffer (as is the case in most graphics libraries, there's "graphics language" and "dump these special bits in internal format")
12:35 asciilifeform 'thestringpuller May 18, 2017 11:32 @davef Dunno. Some speculated MP was broke and couldn’t warrant the losses to keep BitBet going' << didjaknow !!
12:35 asciilifeform apparently there are junkyards for people.
12:35 trinque whole countries of them actually.
12:35 phf but if you're actually trying to render tits with full knowledge of medium, you have to layout your pixels manually, with the full "what is dpi, what is point, etc." awareness
12:35 trinque mircea_popescu: looking into wtf happened with this JonDough guy's reg
12:36 * phf afk
12:36 mircea_popescu coo
12:36 asciilifeform from earlier, 'They reached out to “jrklein,” out of thousands of LBC users, and arranged a meet. All said and done, the IRS agents met with Klein five times. The IRS agents clarified—with or to Klein—that they wanted to exchange their cash for his Bitcoin. Although other possible transactions existed on LBC, cash for Bitcoin was not uncommon. He made charged a 10 percent commission rate, and although the internet often scoff
12:36 asciilifeform s at such a commission, IRS agents arrested him without mention of the money.'
12:37 asciilifeform 'Klein faces five years in federal prison for operating an illegal money exchange—a money exchange that traded USD for property, according to the IRS’s BTC tax document.'
12:37 mircea_popescu wait, like selling a car ?
12:38 asciilifeform car, brick, whichever.
12:38 asciilifeform excluding the great inca from your transaction is the mega-crime.
12:38 mircea_popescu such a best korea you folks got going there.
12:39 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
12:40 asciilifeform incidentally, last i heard - actual 'best korea' has considerably less incatronic, in practice, commercial life than usaschwitz
12:40 asciilifeform folx freely go into/out of cn bazars etc
12:40 mircea_popescu dude look at that, some speculated ? who the fuck speculated, thestringpuller ?
12:40 mircea_popescu and where the fuck were they with the "speculating" back when buffett had no option but to pretend like i dun exist.
12:40 asciilifeform https://bitcoincore.slackarchive.io/welcome/page-99 << subj ( nfi if this renders in human browser )
12:41 asciilifeform ^ specially designated prb heathen pit, apparently.
12:41 asciilifeform a kind of aol.
12:41 mircea_popescu can the useless twerp even voice himself here ?
12:41 asciilifeform iirc he ended up in pederasty
12:42 asciilifeform by the latrine.
12:42 mircea_popescu apparently.
12:42 asciilifeform through sheer force of idleness
12:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he did ?
12:42 asciilifeform !!gettrust thestringpuller
12:42 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 11 by 6 connections.
12:42 asciilifeform hm
12:42 asciilifeform then no??
12:42 mircea_popescu i dunno, 've not been following, but anyway. i can't recall him doing something over the years.
12:42 asciilifeform at one time he grudgingly tested some trb
12:43 asciilifeform but afaik that was it
12:43 trinque !!reputation thestringpuller
12:43 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WhIRo/?raw=true
12:43 trinque lol, was that 10 from danielpbarron supposed to be positive?
12:44 trinque oh sorry, "danieldaniel"
12:44 trinque nvm.
12:44 asciilifeform lol
12:44 mircea_popescu 3583332741. that's ... a long time ago.
12:44 asciilifeform 'not ivan, but pyotr, and not won, but lost, and not the lottery, but at cards'
12:45 mircea_popescu danieldaniel was this 16yo iirc, hung around -otc
12:46 mircea_popescu trinque Sat Oct 7 06:37:43 CST 2084 << say, how do i get unixtime from deedbot time ?
12:46 asciilifeform 'thestringpuller May 18, 2017 11:27 basically from a purely logical standpoint MP’s last bastion in generating bitcoin revenue is 1) through activities he can’t talk about on the clear net (he used to be a pimp and made money that way in the RO days), 2) through Eulora which is basically just A Tale in the Desert with Bitcoin' << didjaknow
12:47 mircea_popescu i can't talk about being a pimp on the clear net ? holy shit i wrote the fucking textbook on it ?
12:47 asciilifeform nfi!
12:47 mircea_popescu aaanyways.
12:47 * asciilifeform is falling over from sheer lul
12:48 asciilifeform apparently rats in the sewer have conversations and things
12:48 mircea_popescu but, talking of eulora, http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-05-17.log.html#t03:39:24
12:48 lobbesbot Logged on 2017-05-17 03:39:24: <mircea_popescu> eulora economy went up ~900% from 1st sept 2015 to 1st april 2017. 20 months.
12:48 asciilifeform about how human affairs work, and ought to work
12:48 mircea_popescu by now it's ~bitbet sized, in terms of "bitcoin mp holds for other people".
12:49 trinque !!ratings thestringpuller
12:49 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/a5KcK/?raw=true
12:49 trinque oh wait.
12:52 mircea_popescu somehow "some are speculating" failed to speculate about how you know, nsa now sells pcb+ic assemblies.
12:52 mircea_popescu how the fuck do the speculating somebodies pick their speculatin' substance ?
12:52 trinque http://wot.deedbot.org/6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169.html << human timestamps here
12:53 mircea_popescu but how are the others derived ?
12:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: standard unhappentronic algo -- 'if i strategically omit to mention it, it will unexist'
12:54 asciilifeform or the slightly more advanced kakobreklan version, 'oh that wasn't mircea_popescu's thing, it was asciilifeform , mircea_popescu only drinks his blood'
12:54 mircea_popescu fine, but i find it rather lulzy that apparently i have to worry about "Bitcoin revenue", as if i can't trade fiatola for bitcoin like anyone else ; and that somehow i should be worried while sitting on technology the usg couldn't replicate in spite of trying for a coupla years.
12:54 trinque mircea_popescu: those are lispy "univeral time", integer seconds since 1900 jan 1 00:00:00
12:54 asciilifeform various idiocies, i can't be arsed to catalogue'em all
12:54 mircea_popescu trinque aaah i c.
12:55 mircea_popescu sell phuctor to north korea, lulz & profit.
12:55 asciilifeform $ date -d @3583332741
12:55 asciilifeform Tue Jul 20 14:12:21 EDT 2083
12:55 asciilifeform ^ lol
12:55 mircea_popescu he's using the lisp not the unix thing
12:55 asciilifeform aaaah
12:55 trinque 1900 is the real 1970, way lispier
12:55 mircea_popescu some have speculated i forgot about that.
12:56 asciilifeform iirc crapple's original epoch was also 1900
12:56 asciilifeform for some reason
12:56 Framedragger trinque: while at it i'll just mention that mine still doesn't have teh old ratings, not that i need them any time soon, just adding to the list. god knows my own list is long :(
12:56 asciilifeform ( pre-osx )
12:56 trinque Framedragger: I dunno what you mean by teh old ratings
12:56 Framedragger sec
12:57 Framedragger curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7QOaG/?raw=true | grep Framedragger
12:57 trinque ah no, I have it
12:57 Framedragger vs curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RSfiU/?raw=true | grep Framedragger (this is from !!reputation and also web)
12:57 trinque one sec.
12:57 Framedragger no bother
12:58 Framedragger (^ ah nick in lowercase, so grep needs to be, too)
12:58 mircea_popescu wtf is bitcoin income even FOR, one wonders. not like bitcoin inflates. if you accumulate you just increase your share in total wealth.
12:59 mircea_popescu fucking jobsworths and their demented perspective.
12:59 trinque !!reputation Framedragger
12:59 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1LjKS/?raw=true
13:00 Framedragger trinque: niice, lgtm, many thanks
13:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hey , these are the folx hell-bent on retrofitting inflation into bitcoin somehow. are firmly convinced that they will eventually do it ( alternative is to 'lie down and rot' , from their pov , world with perma-working bitcoin in it is not one they wish to even conceive of living in )
13:00 Framedragger (i assume web caches older version for now, but web is only preview-mode of the actual thing anyway)
13:02 trinque yeah web shall update shortly
13:03 Framedragger ty!
13:05 mircea_popescu some have speculated they might not have a choice.
13:05 asciilifeform hey, mouse+glass jar
13:05 asciilifeform they ain't about to simply give up.
13:06 mircea_popescu but anyway, a fine summary of modernity is "the time when middle class status went from owning $x in property to owning $x in property AND generating $y in income".
13:06 mircea_popescu some property comes with some y baked in, like apparently washington dc real estate
13:06 mircea_popescu most of it, does not. like say bar of iron, or bushel of wheat.
13:06 asciilifeform koku of rice
13:06 asciilifeform lol
13:06 mircea_popescu the happenstance that the former are ~all economically useless, and the latter ~all economically useful AND collectively the whole gamut of economy interests no one
13:06 mircea_popescu which is why the no one in question finds itself stuck trying to MAGA.
~ 35 minutes ~
13:42 asciilifeform in other noose, massive ddos of phuctor
13:44 mircea_popescu o noes.
13:44 asciilifeform ( continuous fetches of random key pages , from random and unique ip, with random refer hdr )
13:44 mircea_popescu dump the log ?
13:45 asciilifeform 1s
13:48 Framedragger !!up gabriel_laddel_p
13:48 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
13:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/derp.txt << snippet
13:49 asciilifeform this thing comes & goes, it is clearly in experimental stage.
13:50 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658152 < Maxwell's equations are wrong / incomplete (http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_15.html)! Unit circle bfs.
13:50 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 16:20 phf: i don't share the anti-postscript sentiment. i think it's a maxwell's equation of graphics programming. introduces idea of graphics state stack, with operations that happen inside state or in transition between state (e.g. "displace everything that i said so far by n pixels right") . pretty much all the graphics code (including for example opengl) is a variation on what postscript does. and most of the things postscript does simply doesn't make any sen
13:50 gabriel_laddel_p *ffs
13:51 gabriel_laddel_p Also I take it nobody watched the video of what the hasllife author is up to these days I posted to Ben's blog?
13:51 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: if you intended to link to unified theory... you made mistake, you linked to schoolbook that everyone has
13:52 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: there is no standard presentation of the unified theory. All we have is an experiment showing the A-> field is required to fully describe EM.
13:52 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: not even speaking of actual breakthroughs -- even discerning crackpots do not put their work in format of 'video' , but written word
13:53 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: Bill Gosper is what then.
13:53 asciilifeform aging tesla, is what.
13:53 asciilifeform buncha these folx -- alan kay, ted nelson, et al
13:54 asciilifeform i bet if webcam existed when tesla was old an' feeding pigeons -- he would've rambled into a webcam.
13:55 asciilifeform i have not watched the film, gabriel_laddel_p . but its existence ~in that form~ does not bode well for the content. but if gabriel_laddel_p wants to write about what he saw -- i'll read..
13:57 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: Absurdity. Carver Mead's G4V presentation comes across far better in his video than in his paper, and the video includes slides that don't exist elsewhere.
13:57 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: if you believe this, plz consider , again, writing it down.
13:58 asciilifeform socrates, we're told, also 'worked best in video', or how did it go ; plato -- wrote down.
14:00 asciilifeform i've yet to meet a mega-breakthrough that only exists upon this earth as slides in 2-3 frames of some obscure lecture film. but who knows, always a first time.
14:00 asciilifeform write. it. down.
14:00 asciilifeform and post.
14:00 asciilifeform ( why not blog yet, gabriel_laddel_p ? )
14:01 trinque because not place to shit privately yet.
14:01 asciilifeform i knew actual, certified bums with blog.
14:01 asciilifeform so not obstacle.
14:01 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: my laptop's internal charger broke, and I'm sitting here waiting on a charging deck to show up.
14:02 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: incidentally i have not forgotten about your shortage of comps, i did get ye olde x61 out of storage, and dusted off, will be posting it this weekend when going to town.
14:02 asciilifeform maybe this will help.
14:02 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: It will. I've already sold it.
14:02 trinque no, fate will do something completely unexpected to it.
14:02 asciilifeform lol
14:03 gabriel_laddel_p Incidentally, hacked the "black diamond" CLIM-web hack a few nights ago. IE, tying graphics to IRC messages via BEIRC.
14:03 gabriel_laddel_p Which, whatever, ~10loc.
14:03 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: what does this look like on receiving end ?
14:03 asciilifeform say you were to paste in a jpeg, and on my end i dun have your renderer.
14:04 gabriel_laddel_p But it presents a way to get off of "the web", and then swap the underlying networking implementation for gossipd, while retaining a usable UI throughout.
14:04 asciilifeform do i get 100kB of base64 liquishit a la http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658000 ?
14:04 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 15:16 mircea_popescu: V1fMpXqyah5i67onzcUeMhJwL65VvmufwrFQlpTwMuetHbFddCL5tXKiW05YWdItLGO+V9ebr776decAwm+pqw6rIwhJIPLSz/Ygd0r/Em5TSbn/opcJ6fenjs9wP8eFholFs2u0/PavqarPwydSLecMnyNhP/BxdCNXVlW84KvCiLWf+W1LKfZ92+ylae2NMHobDt+wZjLMPPePhizzJ6FAkPjzGh8fDs6rW64vrGVVEYkq73URNq6QkD+nTgL5ar87eJ+bL3J850ff9X9PoJa0xWO+JIkuZxkh9H+8fZnhHv+ilDs3uha3mq8bdLj48zves3g2X20U
14:04 asciilifeform see the problem ?
14:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they seem repeated. possibly browsers retrying ?
14:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/n4SRZ/?raw=true << new one
14:05 asciilifeform fuck no, these ain't browsers
14:05 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: gotta have a web browser to browse the web, dontcha?
14:05 asciilifeform 1000s of different keys, in span of minutes
14:05 asciilifeform and from 1,001 ips, and asking for keys sequentially
14:05 asciilifeform ( enumerated from old /phuctored dump )
14:06 mircea_popescu !$ssh 104.192.170.198
14:06 scriba ssh banner of 104.192.170.198 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.2
14:06 mircea_popescu lel
14:06 mircea_popescu !$ssh 177.204.161.76
14:06 mircea_popescu !$ssh 96.64.149.101
14:06 mircea_popescu !$ssh 181.117.4.58
14:07 mircea_popescu !$ssh 86.178.228.238
14:07 Framedragger you may overestimating the number of non-NAT'ed boxes mircea_popescu
14:07 mircea_popescu 1 in 5 huh
14:07 mircea_popescu Framedragger nah just curious
14:07 mircea_popescu not sure what nat'd do here.
14:07 asciilifeform my current hypothesis, re why sporadic, is that somebody made it a payload for a 'cheap' botnet, and nodes fire sporadically
14:07 asciilifeform luser closes his lappy -- his, stops
14:08 Framedragger i just mean that a box behind NAT won't show up in that !$ssh query
14:08 asciilifeform bargain-bin ddos, like like ye olde b-a udpbot
14:08 Framedragger asciilifeform: you may be right, seeing as that "betaBot" is a piece of some older malware, seemingly
14:08 mircea_popescu Framedragger something would have an ip. that which has the ip -- has the ip/
14:08 Framedragger mentioned e.g. here https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/02/27/attackers-using-cracked-builder-to-duplicate-and-spread-betabot/ ; but could be unrelated
14:08 asciilifeform Framedragger: i have nfi why a bot would accurately self-identify. but whatevers.
14:09 Framedragger mircea_popescu: yeah i used NAT in much too general a sense of the word. i meant "rando PCs behind routers etc."
14:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno that 100 lines in 5 minute can count as a dos
14:11 asciilifeform it does in specifically this case.
14:11 asciilifeform perpetrator reads the logs.
14:11 asciilifeform knew which leg is sprained, and hits specifically that leg.
14:11 asciilifeform this ain't a wordpress.
14:11 mircea_popescu or people read some article somewhere, tried to check out phuctor.
14:11 asciilifeform mno.
14:12 asciilifeform holy FUCK read the paste plox.
14:12 asciilifeform it doesn't even pretend to 'look like people'
14:12 mircea_popescu note that the items in your paste... are indexed as such.
14:12 mircea_popescu ie, mentioned in the logs, google knows them.
14:12 asciilifeform which browser is it that makes 1,001 requests, with random refer header , when loading a page ?
14:12 mircea_popescu you did not show 1001 requests.
14:13 mircea_popescu i dun see the random referer in the snippet.
14:13 mircea_popescu anyway,
14:13 mircea_popescu !~google "/gpgkey/7E840C2FC34B3F9B8B95E6D12E18267E717ACBE1494C34DFA9055710347573A7"
14:13 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Welcome | Phuctor - No Such lAbs: <http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E840C2FC34B3F9B8B95E6D12E18267E717ACBE1494C34DFA9055710347573A7>
14:13 mircea_popescu seems they actually get clicked from archive.is
14:13 mircea_popescu ie, someone saw an archived page, clicked link.
14:13 asciilifeform well, they got PARSED out of an archive.is'd page.
14:14 mircea_popescu that page being... a log archive.
14:14 asciilifeform loading the page, in ordinary browsers, does not result in req-to-every-link
14:14 asciilifeform try it
14:14 mircea_popescu http://archive.li/7t3I2 specifically
14:14 mircea_popescu yes, loading the page. but maybe someone clicked the links, is the idea.
14:14 asciilifeform clicked all of them, and in same order, and exactly same # of msec apart ?
14:14 Framedragger same number of ms? mk that's curious
14:14 mircea_popescu i don't see msec there. i see seconds
14:15 mircea_popescu and yes, i sometimes will click on a bunch of links. i imagine others too.
14:15 mircea_popescu there are also shitty mobile browser that "prefetch", but whatever.
14:16 asciilifeform ^ first idea that'd actually match the observation
14:16 asciilifeform other than 'script'
14:16 asciilifeform it dun look like 'people clicking', nor even attempts to.
14:16 mircea_popescu your observation suffers in all its articulations : you see seconds and imagine microseconds, you see a hundred and imagine 1001, you see regular, and reasonable referrer and imagine random, it's just not good!
14:16 asciilifeform i've been seeing this nonsense for months.
14:17 mircea_popescu well certainly phuctor hasn't been under massive ddos for months!
14:17 asciilifeform and no, i don't have a ready collection of it, because i have ONE motherfucking pair of hands
14:17 asciilifeform not 1,001
14:17 mircea_popescu anyway, the web / backend decoupling will hafta occur, it's too fragile as it is
14:17 asciilifeform it'll have to be rewritten, aha, this isn't really workable.
14:18 asciilifeform the 10,000,000 html turdlets approach doesn't work tho.
14:18 asciilifeform ( for approx same reason that it doesn't work for bitcoin )
14:18 mircea_popescu myeah
14:18 trinque ah so g_l refueled on smart-guy virtue signaling, off now to dry clothes on line next to peter thiel's agar pool?
14:19 * mircea_popescu rereads log, missed this line apparently because doing log checking in parallel with bothering ex romanian ex con ex prime minister.
14:19 asciilifeform lol
14:19 mircea_popescu curious if he publishes mah comment.
14:20 mircea_popescu what is g5v ?
14:21 mircea_popescu "The G4V transforms the standard DJ MIDI device into a dynamic and formidable software performance controller. Within its fully metal enclosure are 2 ..."
14:21 mircea_popescu srsly ?
14:21 asciilifeform wai where
14:22 mircea_popescu google.
14:22 asciilifeform yes but why
14:22 mircea_popescu nfi.
14:22 mircea_popescu i'm just trying to follow the conversation, clap along.
14:23 asciilifeform possibly was looking for g_l's crackpottery ? that was a 4, not a 5, and it can be found, e.g, here, https://arxiv.org/abs/1503.04866
14:23 mircea_popescu "Gravitational coupling of the propagation four-vectors of matter wave functions is formulated in flat space-time."
14:24 mircea_popescu aand it lost me.
14:24 asciilifeform ( incidentally, no magic videos )
14:26 mircea_popescu oh oh oh, the "collective action electrons" guy.
14:26 asciilifeform also vlsi
14:26 mircea_popescu came up with a way to explain away laser interferometry not showing these "grav waves" by declaring photons kulaks / enemy of the solid state or such.
14:26 asciilifeform ftr i tried to give him the uncle al treatment, and actually digest his theory
14:27 asciilifeform it dun have enough meat on its bones, at least as presented in the b00k,
14:27 asciilifeform to be properly digested.
14:27 mircea_popescu i did not, because i did not like the reactive nature of it ^ above.
14:27 asciilifeform so asciilifeform classified him as ' a tesla ' and filed away.
14:28 mircea_popescu i dunno if you recall, largest grant by nsf, caltech and mit (of course) spent a decade starting with post-collapse (sept 2001) trying to see how gravity influences laser beams through measuring interference. never saw anything.
14:28 asciilifeform and it is very easy to dismiss a physics heretic for 'talking to journalists, a la pons&fleischman', e.g. http://archive.is/FeaSm
14:28 mircea_popescu so obviously the trauma produced some reactions. but to outright ban photons is a little much.
14:29 mircea_popescu i always suspected the ligo nonsense was why alf had such a low opinion of eg cern cyclotron.
14:29 asciilifeform dunno if it is accurate to describe the grantolade dispense as 'spent to .. see how gravity '
14:29 asciilifeform it spent so that buncha lamers can have wifehousechildren.
14:29 mircea_popescu well they built some massive laser fuckfloors.
14:29 asciilifeform it's an f35.
14:29 asciilifeform all of it.
14:30 mircea_popescu well no, some are the sukhoi, some are the f
14:30 asciilifeform where's the sukhoi ?
14:30 mircea_popescu under switzerland :D
14:30 asciilifeform iirc we had this thread..
14:33 mircea_popescu yeah.
14:33 mircea_popescu i just didn't realise you meanwhile reverted :D
14:34 asciilifeform lel
14:35 asciilifeform and the reason why asciilifeform has low opinion of ligo et al is that physics has been growing like winblowz api, like prb, like tumour, and not like growing child ( or 1600-1950 physics, for that matter )
14:36 asciilifeform can say 'it's mature field', whatnot, but then job of practitioner is to SHRINK the textbook
14:36 asciilifeform by finding more parsimonious model.
14:36 asciilifeform not to expand the book to fill available shelf space.
14:36 asciilifeform and grantolade space.
14:37 asciilifeform and even if he believes that it ~cannot~ be further shrunk, it remains his job to die trying
14:37 asciilifeform because otherwise he gotta find another like of work.
14:39 asciilifeform the ligo treatment -- even if taken at face value, rather than grantolade-eating cynical fraud -- is rather like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657309 philosophy.
14:39 a111 Logged on 2017-05-17 13:43 phf: i guess that's aligned with the "we moved from SICP to python, because programming is no longer about writing code, but discovering libraries" that's periodically discussed in logs
14:39 asciilifeform the indian-coder, 'stack overflow' treatment of knowledge .
14:40 mircea_popescu the fact is that the textbook is incomplete. fails to explain gravity credibly.
14:40 asciilifeform sure.
14:41 mircea_popescu also incomplete re magnetism, etc.
14:41 asciilifeform but cataloguing, naming, imaginary ( and when unified, they will look like a quite laughable jorge borges zoo roster ) particules, is not a solution to any of it
14:41 mircea_popescu in this sense and very generally, large scale investigations of the nature of "let's see what happens to laser interference" are not substantially different from historical items such as foucault's pendulum, or the torgue balance of 1700
14:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: minus any fundamental result !
14:42 asciilifeform is the difference .
14:42 mircea_popescu the difference between ligo and cern is that the later actually does something ; the former...
14:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't know the result until AFTER. you gotta start building it BEFORE.
14:42 asciilifeform 'does something' is not difficult standard. asciilifeform's 40w laser likewise 'does something'
14:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, and in that something it's justified.
14:42 mircea_popescu you don't derided its existence, do you.
14:44 asciilifeform formerly asciilifeform barfed less from $ 4B paperweight laser than 4b welfare cheques or iraqs . but -- on no small part from educative efforts of mircea_popescu -- now barfs equally
14:45 asciilifeform the people are ~exactly same, on the receiving end of those cheques.
14:45 asciilifeform and the work has exactly same methodology, and same output.
14:45 mircea_popescu lel
14:45 mircea_popescu the latter part is hard to arghue with.
14:46 asciilifeform whereas ACTUALLY promising, and wholly noncrackpotterious direction of particle physics -- induced beta decay -- is funded to the princely sum of..
14:46 asciilifeform zero
14:46 asciilifeform and can be pursued for perhaps a few 100k $ worth of gear
14:46 asciilifeform ( less, if access to surplus goldentoilets )
14:48 asciilifeform the mechanics were described, quite exactly, in 1950s . and it follows, theoretically, that you could power a city of, e.g., strontium-90 scraped off chernobyl.
14:48 asciilifeform *off
14:49 asciilifeform and exhaust pipe emits ~stable~ matter.
14:51 mircea_popescu maybe one day, alfie.
14:53 asciilifeform well it won't be at cern.
14:53 asciilifeform or ligo, or uni. of maryland.
14:53 asciilifeform because -- fundamentally - 'bad business'
14:53 asciilifeform not 'job-creating'
14:53 asciilifeform 0 dissertations, in it.
14:53 mircea_popescu why not ?
14:53 asciilifeform because it was ~completely described in su in 1950s.
14:54 mircea_popescu eh, didn't stop them before.
14:54 asciilifeform more dangerously, it doesn't call for massive $bil instrumentation .
14:54 asciilifeform nor create 'moar studies needed' ad-infinitum.
14:55 asciilifeform the perfect academitron is the hot-fusion reactor -- eternal 'but if only we make it 10% bigger!' chumpatron
14:55 asciilifeform and thousands of asian phd students get dissertation from proposing a new thermal/field/whatever sensor for it, etc
14:56 mircea_popescu this whole theory is a little shaky.
14:57 asciilifeform there is no money, in modern usg reich, in SOLVING a problem
14:57 asciilifeform your solution will simply get confiscated and assigned to 'respectable people'
14:57 asciilifeform bitcoin drives the lizards up a wall because it was the first immovable object that resisted the 'irresistible force'
14:58 mircea_popescu i dunno about all that.
14:59 asciilifeform lol, postscript, pdf.
14:59 asciilifeform the process is not mega-mystery.
14:59 asciilifeform ( of 'reassigned to respectable' that is )
14:59 asciilifeform probably most famous case -- transistor
14:59 mircea_popescu why not aspirin, while at it.
15:00 asciilifeform iirc that was part of a larger rape, of germany as a whole
15:00 mircea_popescu yes but also best model of this "assigned to respectable people" thing.
15:01 asciilifeform pretty good model, if not necessarily 'best'
15:01 asciilifeform and we very recently iirc had a marconi thread
15:01 mircea_popescu so take something random, say the touchscreen. who invented, who got assigned ?
15:02 * asciilifeform does not recall
15:02 mircea_popescu ok. what else, the microwave ? velcro ? what shall we take ? gsm comms ?
15:02 mircea_popescu fuel injectors, what.
15:03 asciilifeform marconi was interesting case -- i read his patents, and in a few the circuit could not work as drawn, and in fact could not have been drawn by a d00d who understood half of what he was allegedly doing ( vs cribbing )
15:03 asciilifeform was exactly indian-cut-and-paste artist.
15:04 asciilifeform ...but with crown backing.
15:04 mircea_popescu marconi ? i thought he was poor.
15:04 asciilifeform lukejr poor.
15:04 asciilifeform or idk who is best comparison today.
15:04 asciilifeform was backed 'because italian, dammit'
15:04 mircea_popescu but he worked on telegraph prior neh ?
15:05 asciilifeform was one of many 'brute force' experimenters in 1890s.
15:05 mircea_popescu made rthat lulzy square antenna etc.
15:07 asciilifeform d00d did in fact carry out experiments. but proved also brilliant at taking credit for the work of others.
15:08 mircea_popescu not sure any crown was involved, be that as it may.
15:09 asciilifeform d00d was made senator ! and then again lifted up by mussolini.
15:09 mircea_popescu so /
15:13 asciilifeform iirc the butthurt was deep ( and described in the infamous u.s. supreme court trial on subj. ) marconi got the famous '7777' patent , and pr machine cemented his reputation as 'first practical radio!' (though it was largely based on earlier work, by, e.g., lodge, tesla, others)
15:14 asciilifeform then marconi joined in the newly-developed 'edison' tradition of patent trollage, by laying claim to EVERY subsequent improvement to radio, by others who came later..
15:15 asciilifeform brothers wright, incidentally, did ~same thing in ~their~ field, and more or less paralyzed it entirely for years
15:16 asciilifeform edison's megabux had the same 'contagious disease' influence as the success of gates/microshit in 1980s did on software industry
15:16 asciilifeform every 'idea man' wanted to 'become edison', 'rich off patents'
15:16 asciilifeform (edison, bell, westinghouse, coupla others)
15:18 mircea_popescu not entirely clear to me what you're saying here. so the idea is, that because random upstart / usurper of minor crown enobled anyone who could read/write and hadn't rean off a century ago, it therefore follows that a man who could power a whole city out of hot reactor waste today does not do so because mit graduates can't power a lightbulb with the battery in hand. something like that ?
15:18 asciilifeform was it mircea_popescu who wrote 'best thing you can do for physics is to find a respectable elderly physicist on the road, and shoot a hole in his head' ?
15:18 mircea_popescu i dun think so. link ?
15:18 asciilifeform can't seem to find link. so maybe it wasn't .
15:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imho it is not a simple as 'there's a man who could, but he won't , because pissants tangled in his shoelaces.'
15:19 asciilifeform idea was that this hypothetical man is the point of a spear, a spear that was broken.
15:20 mircea_popescu if the 100k you're talking about is factual, ie, what a moderately competent engineer makes a year, it seems altogether strange they're not doing it.
15:20 mircea_popescu there's many tons of waste in the us they don't klnow what to do with. and as recent qntra points out, it's starting to leak.
15:20 mircea_popescu waste is more enduring than rock.
15:20 asciilifeform well it's $100k + pyongyang ( work unmolested by usg )
15:21 * mircea_popescu is having the antipasta of all time. grana padano, anchovies, winter salami, olives... ahhh.
15:21 asciilifeform there's a million folx with 100k. but afaik 0 who a) give a shit b) work unmolested ( and this includes molestation that makes your table legs cost 100k each, as in entirety of 'civilized' world's 'legitimiate' laboratories )
15:23 asciilifeform try to build just about ANYTHING in 'legit org', and 'jobsworths' show up immediately, like crows to a corpse, and before long :
15:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434
15:23 a111 Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
15:24 asciilifeform so i'll readily admit that i am working in a poorly defined unit. 100k of tmsr partizan money -- might buy subj. but how many 100k usg funbux buy a phuctor, or FG ?
15:24 asciilifeform i have nfi how to convert between the 2.
15:24 asciilifeform or whether it is meaningful to try.
15:25 asciilifeform apparently entire ru 'infosec' budget bought, waht, a few 100 elbrus. if that.
15:25 asciilifeform ( having not laid hands on ONE, i cannot say if any ! )
15:25 asciilifeform seealso http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1531862 .
15:25 a111 Logged on 2016-08-30 14:55 asciilifeform: 'motivation from fear is a firecracker, from interest - a nuke' as the americans used to say
15:27 mircea_popescu i dunno, seems even at mit, physics lab should be able to produce the micrograms of I or w/e is contemplarted here.
15:27 mircea_popescu certainly ro could, and does.
15:28 asciilifeform ftr i would love to hear, from actual honest practitioner, why induced-beta is not pursued. ONE good reason.
15:28 asciilifeform but unfortunately afaik they're all dead.
15:28 mircea_popescu simple recipe for man interested -- go into grad school at relevant place, make measurements.
15:28 mircea_popescu i know of a coupla who tried. the problem was the measurements not coming out, rather than conspiraci.
15:29 asciilifeform the 1 problem i can immediately spot is 'if you can't make it with STOCK equipment, you need $maxint'
15:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: did these folx who tried, leave some written record ?
15:29 asciilifeform post it for the l0gz ?
15:30 mircea_popescu informal party talk. i've never followed it in much detail.
15:30 asciilifeform 1 moar observation : you need a quite strong magnetic field. which became affordable in 1990s strictly.
15:31 asciilifeform ( in that you can get it out of 'shelf' industrial equip, vs 'golden toilet' )
15:31 mircea_popescu but the thing remains, so you do induced beta decay. this has some matter costs, in the radioactive material, and some energy cost, in the confinement, excitatron, etc. in exchange for these, you get beta particles. now, what do you do with them ? warm some water, turn turbine ? -ev. put against photovoltaics ? -ev. illuminate raw metal joints ? -ev. what ?
15:31 mircea_popescu afaik that's the missing piece.
15:31 asciilifeform not missing. betavoltaic cell.
15:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is all early 2000s.
15:31 asciilifeform it's an electron, what.
15:32 mircea_popescu tunnel and field effects, it just dun come out.
15:32 mircea_popescu beta radiation is not just an electron about in the sense a tsunami is not just water.
15:32 asciilifeform how to get current out of beta is ~solved problem, used industrially (small radiogenerators in implants)
15:33 asciilifeform but yes, was engineering problem, solved to about same satisfaction as solar cell (iirc peak conversion efficiency was similar)
15:33 mircea_popescu yes but it's not -ev for this application.
15:33 asciilifeform if you can set up the induction conditions for less than the cost - then + sign.
15:33 asciilifeform it's a restatement of whole problem, yes.
15:33 mircea_popescu well, apparently nobody could so far.
15:33 asciilifeform i've found ~no record of anybody even trying, since 1980s.
15:33 asciilifeform but possibly more problem on my end than other.
15:34 asciilifeform anyone who knows any -- plox to post.
15:35 mircea_popescu well, do you what, go to parties where solid state grads show up ? or how would you ?
15:35 asciilifeform all i got is the open lit.
15:35 mircea_popescu anyway, esp because of the incredible expense that is magnetic bottle, it's not even CLOSE, ev wise.
15:35 asciilifeform you might not need bottle.
15:35 mircea_popescu though most don't even want to use that as a confinement method
15:36 asciilifeform ( why would you ? no fusion, no heat )
15:36 mircea_popescu (beta sources are terrible, i will remind the public, because metal emits gamma on contact.)
15:36 asciilifeform xray, but sure
15:36 mircea_popescu yeah.
15:36 asciilifeform 'soft', bremsstrahlung, but aha
15:36 asciilifeform like old crt.
15:36 mircea_popescu still. yeah.
15:38 trinque !!key jondough
15:38 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/7DAF46653B2A66D9D90AD79B4E0B0276E6275848.asc
15:38 asciilifeform i suspect that the finesse, if it ever turns up, would be to somehow 'chain react' the induced beta emission.
15:38 trinque ^ where deedbot asked for one fp, our excitable friend put two
15:38 trinque lol
15:39 asciilifeform ( possibly by growing the material in a crystal, say, such that the emitted particles trigger yet others etc a la ye olde neutron-powered fission reaction )
15:41 asciilifeform incidentally, let's try gedankenexperiment ,
15:42 asciilifeform 1 mEv ~= 1.6e-13 j.
15:42 mircea_popescu anyway, as far as the conspiracies go : politically speaking, if the ev were even close, even vaguely the "art" grads in eg germany would be pushing for lifting the cost on hot reactors matter disposal so as to balance it outright.
15:42 mircea_popescu but... it's not.
15:43 asciilifeform k-40, most abundant (in nature, 1 of the very few) B emitters, decays with 1.33mEv emission, so ~2.13e-13 j..
15:43 asciilifeform but suppose you could shorten its half-life.
15:43 asciilifeform ( normally -- 1.23e9 yr )
15:43 asciilifeform 1.25 rather
15:44 mircea_popescu do the math :
15:44 mircea_popescu !~calc 2.13 * 10**-13 * 1.25*10**9
15:44 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 2.13 * 10**-13 * 1.25*10**9 = 2.6625E-4
15:45 mircea_popescu you get a quarter milijoul per mol. as an absolute maximum.
15:45 mircea_popescu dja know what the mol of gasoline produces through oxidation ?
15:45 asciilifeform this dun seem right
15:45 mircea_popescu your numbers.
15:45 asciilifeform yes, but abused.
15:45 mircea_popescu abused how ?!
15:45 mircea_popescu if the whole mol halflived NOW that'd be the total energetic output.
15:46 asciilifeform well for starters, 1.25e9 is the HALF life
15:46 mircea_popescu (well, twice, really. irl i should have divided by half)
15:46 asciilifeform not 'all-life'
15:46 mircea_popescu yes...
15:46 mircea_popescu this dun help your case.
15:47 mircea_popescu add a 2% conversion efficiency on top, and it suddenly looks terribru. diesel engines work in the high 40%.
15:47 asciilifeform i dun yet have a case, incidentally, picked a naturally-found isotope at ~random, to see what'd happen if someone were to 'burn' a kg of it this way
15:47 asciilifeform it's the 'softest'.
15:48 mircea_popescu yeah. jus' saying, ev is the problem with this theoretically promising idea.
15:48 asciilifeform anyway i'll take mircea_popescu's pessimistic figure for K40.
15:48 mircea_popescu just like with radio in marconi's time.
15:48 asciilifeform ( even if it discards ~half )
15:49 asciilifeform probably oughta mention that -- iirc -- induced decay can be moar ( or less ) energetic than the expected one
15:49 asciilifeform but this is where my recollection ends.
15:50 asciilifeform it's an unknown-unknown. that afaik nobody's diggin.
15:50 mircea_popescu and also, surprisingly energetic. imagine what fun it'll be once you discover that a kilogram is not like the microgram in that it summons fucking chtulhu.
15:50 asciilifeform aha, exactly that
15:50 asciilifeform q in gedankenexperiment was 'what if kitchen nuke after all exists'
15:51 mircea_popescu gee, i wonder why nobody wants to dedicate life to building incidental nuke.
15:51 mircea_popescu it went so fucking well for curie and that idiot with the beryl sphere.
15:51 mircea_popescu i think they named a crater on moon after them.
15:51 asciilifeform matter of taste, but there are folx who'd maybe rather die on beryllium sphere than from vodka
15:51 asciilifeform ( or even on harley )
15:52 mircea_popescu yes. they don't tend to have 100k spare change in couch cushions.
15:52 asciilifeform tru!!
15:52 asciilifeform asciilifeform for instance has to die on a rusty bucket
15:52 asciilifeform can't afford even half a beryllium sphere!111
16:00 asciilifeform oh btw mircea_popescu , a mol of k40 :
16:00 * mircea_popescu was wondering how long until you ask for avogadro's number.
16:00 asciilifeform !~calc 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 )
16:00 jhvh1 asciilifeform: 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 ) = 1.2826859999999998E11
16:00 asciilifeform bang
16:01 mircea_popescu ya ya.
16:02 mircea_popescu now calculate the magnetic field that turns a million years into a second.
16:03 asciilifeform first, gotta finish above,
16:03 asciilifeform !~calc 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 ) / ( 4.184*10**6 )
16:03 jhvh1 asciilifeform: 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 ) / ( 4.184*10**6 ) = 30656.931166347993
16:03 asciilifeform kg TNT.
16:03 asciilifeform as to mircea_popescu's 2nd q, i have nfi !
16:03 asciilifeform not like i'm sitting on this item !1
16:05 asciilifeform ( exercise for student : how many kg of KCl from corner shop, contains ^ qty of k40 )
16:09 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/05/fakes-news-on-trumprussia-hallucination-continues-as-trump-bombs-convoy-of-actual-russian-ally-syria/ << Qntra - Fakes News On Trump/Russia Hallucination Continues As Trump Bombs Convoy Of Actual Russian Ally Syria
~ 16 minutes ~
16:25 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658191 << It's been a while since he's lit up my inbox. Went over the years from promising to sell cookies he wouldn't bake to writing a couple good qntra's under cazalla regime. Then sort just degraded to repeatedly asking questions over plaintext about gardening for plants I don't grow. "tomatoes" but I suspect he was using it as a code word for a plant incompatible with quality sobriety. His late con
16:25 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 16:34 asciilifeform: briefly upstack : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658014 << i tracked down the heathen pit in question, for entomological purposes. the only possibly lulzy bit is that it turns out to be thestringpuller 's new home.
16:25 BingoBoingo verstations felt very trap like with "sting op" sort of vibe. Impossible to tell if through malice or powerlessness over certain dry plant matter.
16:25 jurov wtf http://mpex.co/history_of_bitcoin_stock_exchanges.html
16:26 asciilifeform lol! it's the cardano people !
16:26 asciilifeform i bet this is the 'seekrit startup' that made kakobrekla rich
16:26 jurov BingoBoingo: it expired. prolly too low fee :D
16:27 asciilifeform megabux from anon swiss 'donor', and he churns out this nonsense
16:28 BingoBoingo jurov: seems to have went through eventually or something. Resolved A+++!!!11!!!
16:29 asciilifeform 'Feel free to call us any time, we have a staff dedicated to answering your questions. +1-803-555-0109'
16:29 jurov oh that. actually, the other dude kicked me :)
16:29 asciilifeform hey give'em a call
16:29 BingoBoingo jurov: How is vacation/sabbatical going anyways?
16:30 jurov fine fine, having fun on crete atm.
16:31 BingoBoingo Awesome. I picked up some conCrete today.
16:33 jurov dropped it yet?
16:36 BingoBoingo Not yet, waiting for anchoring hardware to arrive. Attaching a tin shed to the ground.
16:40 Framedragger asciilifeform: can't be kako, site is too positive about mpex :D
16:42 Framedragger this just looks like spam/scamotron. with ads!
16:47 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/05/careerist-us-attorney-prosecutes-private-money-for-property-exchange/ << Qntra - Careerist US Attorney Prosecutes Private Money For Property Exchange
16:57 shinohai Take care to avoid minotaurs jurov and have fun! ^.^
17:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658673 << who's the cardano people ?!
17:11 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 20:26 asciilifeform: lol! it's the cardano people !
17:12 mircea_popescu ah, look at that, highschool virgin club collecting discarded, used condoms, making themselves bower to impress the highschool sluts. sounds like MAGA.
17:14 mircea_popescu before alf cuts more notches in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658505 stick : i literally did not bother paying for the domain, for no other reason than because i literally give this much of a shit about domains, and the whole rest of the ustardian crap built atop it.
17:14 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 18:57 asciilifeform: your solution will simply get confiscated and assigned to 'respectable people'
17:15 mircea_popescu put that in your "internet domains are worth money" pipe and smoke it.
~ 18 minutes ~
17:33 * shinohai simply makes mpex.co point wherever he damn well pleases with his specially-crafted hosts file.
17:34 mircea_popescu word.
17:41 mircea_popescu !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Gn7tX/?raw=true
17:42 deedbot accepted: 1
17:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658690 >>>> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-31#1610071
17:44 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 21:11 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658673 << who's the cardano people ?!
17:44 a111 Logged on 2017-01-31 02:25 asciilifeform: http://cardano.io
17:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-31#1610073 <<
17:44 a111 Logged on 2017-01-31 02:26 asciilifeform: 'A decentralized network system fully-utilizing Blockchain in every aspect, aims at solving current difficulties faced by key cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and Ethereum, preventing from frauds and money-laundering, ID management and being a mediator with taxing/administrative system in various countries.
17:44 mircea_popescu lol k.
17:45 mircea_popescu i had no idea bitcoin faced difficulties.
17:45 asciilifeform and yes i recall that mircea_popescu threw out the domain. dun matter much, even if you buy 1,001 domains ( enriching usg each time, each year ) there is always 1,001st.
17:45 asciilifeform 1,002nd, et
17:45 asciilifeform c
17:45 mircea_popescu next they're going to invent a sheath fully utilizing steel that aims at solving the difficulties faced by swords embedded in idiots guts everywhere.
17:47 asciilifeform it's shannonized.
17:47 asciilifeform and could've been funnier.
17:47 asciilifeform but hey, lowest-bidder shannonizer
17:48 Framedragger someone needs to do a SaaS
17:48 Framedragger scam as a service
17:48 asciilifeform betcha it's kako's co.
17:48 Framedragger would include that 3d transform on cardano.io as a free perk
17:49 asciilifeform d00d's been doing the reptilia thing
17:49 asciilifeform ( photos of throne, whores hanging off arms, etc )
17:49 mircea_popescu oh ?
17:50 asciilifeform e.g. https://smpake.com/tmp/1494143304871.jpg
17:50 Framedragger doesn't imply scamatron
17:50 asciilifeform secrecy does.
17:51 BingoBoingo In other Desperations: https://archive.is/F2SIO "If the chain splits, then when / if / every time the BIP148 chain gets longer*, it will replace the legacy chain. Transactions that had confirmed on the legacy chain will become unconfirmed (unless they are also confirmed on the BIP148 chain). Bitcoins mined by legacy miners will cease to exist, as they lose their blocks. (This cannot occur in the inverse direction: no matter how long the
17:51 BingoBoingo legacy chain gets, BIP148 nodes will never let it reorg out the BIP148 chain.)"
17:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform apparently went to oleg savchuk school, archive.is dun see it.
17:51 Framedragger mno, secrecy implies kindergarten perhaps, tho. anyway, impossible to argue due to the former
17:51 asciilifeform secrecy + suddenwealth == sold-motherland to ~every intel service on planet
17:51 asciilifeform ^ there oughta be a comma in there
17:51 asciilifeform motherland, to
17:51 Framedragger i thought the suddenwealth was from the earlyadoptronium
17:52 asciilifeform nope
17:52 asciilifeform though he had some
17:52 mircea_popescu anyway, what's in the pic ? nice tits ?
17:52 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo dude dun quite grok hwo this shit works, does he.
17:52 asciilifeform gurls, who in his words, truuluvv him and 'never even saw money'
17:53 mircea_popescu a, so what's the problem.
17:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: But "user activated fork!!!" "How does world work?"
17:53 asciilifeform 0 problem. but naturally invites as candidate for mpexcardano.io
17:53 mircea_popescu there's ~3.5 bn gurlz out there you're aware.
17:55 asciilifeform and 1,000,001 folx who could be author of 'mpex'.co , sure.
17:55 asciilifeform it ain't a hard-smokinggun.
17:55 Framedragger i'll remember to be careful about any pics with gurls, lest asciilifeform deduce me to be scamzor by steel logic
17:56 asciilifeform Framedragger: historic record is that 100% of the folx who bragged about 'fear my seekrit mega-profitable co !' turned out to be shits.
17:56 asciilifeform and often thieves of identifiable loot.
17:57 mircea_popescu i kinda miss the early ones. remember the punk, what's his name, who thought he was a "crypto innovator" ? or that tv schmuck. or or or
17:57 asciilifeform they all merged into one, in asciilifeform's head. but that comes from reading about'em years later.
17:58 BingoBoingo "Mathematical Society" http://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-the-way/
17:58 asciilifeform BIP148 nodes will never let it reorg out the BIP148 chain << this is newz. how does node 'never let' ? i'd like to know
17:59 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> BIP148 nodes will never let it reorg out the BIP148 chain << this is newz. how does node 'never let' ? i'd like to know << YOu don't know how ghettos work!
17:59 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: gold trololol btw
17:59 asciilifeform gotta be a gag
17:59 BingoBoingo "Mr fancypants doctor think you are going to fix up the neighborhood? How about broken bottles in your yard and PLS MOAR DRUGZ, kthnx"
18:00 asciilifeform ( re ams link )
18:00 Framedragger i poelaw'd on that link. " Sadly, there is a direct correlation between high IQ and “earning” a PhD in a STEM discipline, which is all too reflective of how white cishet men have designed disciplinary concepts to reinforce their own power structures." (some comment. troll? dunno)
18:00 asciilifeform i dun even have enuff bits in my lulzregister to hold it
18:00 asciilifeform it overfloweth
18:01 mircea_popescu it's kinda funny to me that in the end the fem-gay revolution came to the same conclusion it started by denying : "we are inferiorz to straight men"
18:01 mircea_popescu only took them what, 3-4 decades ? not so bad.
18:01 asciilifeform but guess what 'inferior is the new superior' because some roman d00dz didn't feed nearly enough uppity shits to lions etc
18:02 mircea_popescu eh, brunette is the new blonde has been a meme for a long time now.
18:16 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:16 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1879.99, vol: 11856.94249724 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1811.084, vol: 7766.89513 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1940.4, vol: 11695.76908415 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1690.117545, vol: 10855.61990000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1893.872, vol: 6451.76267153 | Volume-weighted last average: 1842.96808843
18:18 mircea_popescu WHY IS IT CRASHING!
~ 27 minutes ~
18:45 BingoBoingo Bees?
18:47 * shinohai goes with bees
18:48 ben_vulpes bees!
18:51 ben_vulpes !!up gabriel_laddel_p
18:51 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
18:53 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658434 < Do you have a source for this? And banning photons? What? Where is this discussed? In any case, there are two threads here 1) collective electrodynamics, which wants to be a reformulation of EM using A->, as it takes into account, as you say, the "collective action" of electrons. & 2) G4V, which applies t
18:53 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 18:26 mircea_popescu: came up with a way to explain away laser interferometry not showing these "grav waves" by declaring photons kulaks / enemy of the solid state or such.
18:53 gabriel_laddel_p he same mathematical machinery (vector potential) to gravity and has a slightly different prediction than GR regarding the gravity wave (supposedly) detected at LIGO.
18:54 gabriel_laddel_p We know that A-> exists, and is better than heaviside's formulation of maxwell's equations because it can describe the AB experiment, and because it does not have a preferred frame of reference / is lorentz invariant.
18:55 gabriel_laddel_p my understanding is that the original quaternion formulation from maxwell is also lorentz invariant, but have not checked.
18:57 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658436 < Agreed. Which is why I pasted the video (which yes, I will strip of its contents and put in blog), because it occurred after CE, and has 1 new, useful calculation.
18:57 a111 Logged on 2017-05-18 18:27 asciilifeform: it dun have enough meat on its bones, at least as presented in the b00k,
19:06 gabriel_laddel_p Irrespective of its other features, the pedagogical elimination of Bohr's definition of the classical correspondence limit is useful (from CE).
19:09 gabriel_laddel_p Interestingly, Ilan Kroo reached for the same formulation (A->) & same example (spherically symmetrical mass distribution) as CAM, but ~20 years earlier, and prior to gravity probe B, which confirmed (for some value of that word) the geodetic effect (frame dragging).
19:09 gabriel_laddel_p from: http://aero.stanford.edu/gtrpaper/gtr.html
19:10 gabriel_laddel_p *spherically symmetrical mass distribution with a much smaller mass inside of it that A-> induces a velocity in when moved...
19:22 shinohai !!up gabriel_laddel_p
19:22 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
19:33 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel_p i'm only vaguely familar with the matter, but my understanding was that photons are un-existed.
19:33 mircea_popescu a la phlogiston.
~ 17 minutes ~
19:51 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: ask a grad student (preferably one who works on antenna theory) what the A-> field _is_ and why D->/B->/E-> etc are _not_ sometime. The sheer weight of handwaving will adequately communicate why this is interesting.
19:54 mircea_popescu i can't even be arsed to take the anglo formalism seriously. A-> field, really ? pshaw.
20:06 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: show experiment that suggests the 'incomplete maxwell' in the sense contemplated
20:11 mod6 speaking of wot ratings. i gotta go through and update mine one of these days.
~ 39 minutes ~
20:50 * asciilifeform bought most of the contents of a ratshack for ~2hundy us
20:53 asciilifeform they also had a 2tonne safe, for some reason , in the back, and willing to let it go for cheap. but asciilifeform has neither flatbed nor crane nor concrete plinth.
20:54 asciilifeform nor anything worth keeping in a 2tonne safe.
~ 20 minutes ~
21:14 mircea_popescu how much was it ?
21:15 asciilifeform hundy
21:15 mircea_popescu jesus. worth even for scrap\
21:15 asciilifeform junkyard keeper will be very happy aha
21:15 mircea_popescu dude im starting to think im missing out
21:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu wants to become scrap iron fella?
21:15 mircea_popescu item is 15k new or some shit.
21:15 asciilifeform prolly moar
21:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform AMERICAN scrap iron. sure.
21:15 asciilifeform not so many suppliers, e.g. mosler, is gone
21:15 mircea_popescu make some vhs tapes. for old times'.
21:15 asciilifeform ditto diebold iirc
21:16 asciilifeform funnily enough somebody bought those
21:17 asciilifeform there's a bank not far from where asciilifeform lives, that died in 1990s. but left ALL of the furniture, incl. the ~stately~ mega-vault
21:17 asciilifeform visible through street window. wood panelling, all.
21:17 asciilifeform from 'golden age'
21:17 asciilifeform massive scrap piles, yes, in usa, quite comparable to ye olde su
21:18 mircea_popescu quite. slightly more impudent aparatchicks, though.
21:19 asciilifeform similar
21:19 asciilifeform plus there's method of working 'with' them, just as there are tools for cutting scrap apart.
21:19 mircea_popescu somehow the soviet and soviet likes didn't annoy me nearly as much.
21:20 asciilifeform speaking of which, asciilifeform encountered for 1st time term 'bay aryan' and lolle
21:20 asciilifeform d
21:21 mircea_popescu what bay, chesapeake ?
21:21 asciilifeform other one
21:21 asciilifeform 'bay area' is where the most egregiously insufferable twits are to be found -- sv, 'lesswrong', etc. types
21:21 asciilifeform san francisco bay.
21:21 mircea_popescu a
21:23 asciilifeform phunphakt : new (physical branches, that is) banks are not being built with vaults
21:23 asciilifeform in usa
21:24 asciilifeform possibly for the reasons described in old thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-30#816372
21:24 a111 Logged on 2014-08-30 16:11 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
21:24 asciilifeform ( they offer ZERO assurance of non-disappearance of contents . and so -- very few takers. )
21:24 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AE42589F3130E0FF575F90C9BFF0CE69418FCB9E2A78959A42B68415B1B5FBA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1474...8679 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.192.125.65 (ssh-rsa key from 212.192.125.65 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (212-192-125-65.IP.SUR.net.ru. RU TOM)
21:24 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AE42589F3130E0FF575F90C9BFF0CE69418FCB9E2A78959A42B68415B1B5FBA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1426...7919 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.192.125.65 (ssh-rsa key from 212.192.125.65 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (212-192-125-65.IP.SUR.net.ru. RU TOM)
21:26 mircea_popescu i recall that nonsense.
21:26 asciilifeform 'we will now offer this costly service that does absolutely nothing but homeopathic shell of former self. then proceed to be very surprised when nobody buys.'
21:27 mircea_popescu it's entirely unclear to me what exactly "bank" expects to make money out of.
21:27 mircea_popescu i mean i get it, the government gives. but otherwise ?
21:27 asciilifeform out of stealing , naturally, whatever ain't bolted down
21:27 mircea_popescu i've not been using the much for years now, and can't say i noticed the absence.
21:27 asciilifeform e.g. idiot's box contents
21:29 asciilifeform i imagine they'll be in the 'business' of offering to 'safely safekeep' chumps' bitcoin, soon.
21:29 asciilifeform not because there's much to be harvested in this way,
21:30 asciilifeform but so that they could have a shot at 'refrigerating' its exchange rate a la usd/gold
21:30 ben_vulpes haw i've been renting the train station's vault for months now
21:30 asciilifeform whole thing?!
21:30 ben_vulpes lock was removed long ago, but gorgeous door remains
21:30 asciilifeform whatchagot in there, ben_vulpes , column of tanks ?
21:31 asciilifeform and what good with no lock ??
21:31 ben_vulpes inside door, new steel door and frame
21:31 ben_vulpes with ofc lock, good grief
21:31 ben_vulpes but modern, pickable.
21:31 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: remains of previousl $bezzlecorp assetes
21:31 ben_vulpes assets*
21:32 ben_vulpes also you know, brick and excellent atmospheric thing
21:32 ben_vulpes brick and steel*
21:32 asciilifeform if it's tables an' chairs, almost certainly -ev, neh
21:32 asciilifeform to pay to store.
21:32 ben_vulpes far cheaper than storage unit anywhere accessible
21:32 ben_vulpes thrown in for song with hole where the few remaining used desks stand
21:33 ben_vulpes "i'll take the vault for $pittance, but only if you discount $butthole by $similar_pittance"
21:33 mircea_popescu how much did you end up in the hole with that thing ?
21:34 ben_vulpes made out like bandits!
21:34 ben_vulpes chain reaction would not, though.
21:34 mircea_popescu a really ? then what the fuck do you hang on to used furniture for. no party rental outfits where you live ?
21:34 mircea_popescu they usually buy used.
21:35 ben_vulpes sloth, similar pittance for storage unit across town.
21:35 asciilifeform burn it, ben_vulpes , it'll be +ev
21:35 asciilifeform vs storing old desks
21:35 ben_vulpes vault not particularly full of anything but monitors and computers.
21:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, the usg is desperately trying to achieve said refrigeration through trying to shoot people who trade it.
21:35 mircea_popescu dun really work.
21:35 ben_vulpes plus the girls love the brick.
21:36 mircea_popescu lol for new year i dun recall which, took girls in chains to floor -3, poured champagne / fucked them among the scary concrete. was a blast.
21:36 ben_vulpes aha, right?
21:36 mircea_popescu yeah.
21:37 asciilifeform what's a -3 .. garage?
21:37 mircea_popescu vaguely thinking of renting meatpacking plant next.
21:37 ben_vulpes thing also does not have smoke detectors
21:37 mircea_popescu all them hooks.
21:37 ben_vulpes great place for cigars and cognac after the sun sets
21:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: make sure there's piano wire on them hooks
21:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform technical floor, where various machinery livese etc.
21:37 ben_vulpes amusingly, was previously haunt of "bigfoot researcher"
21:37 ben_vulpes shit thee not
21:37 mircea_popescu it's quite... quite the thing for the sorta chick that loves big boots.
21:38 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes he thought bigfoot resides in portland ?!
21:38 ben_vulpes cannot speak for internals of others
21:39 mircea_popescu i thought you were management.
21:39 ben_vulpes bad habit, gave it up
21:39 ben_vulpes "neither a borrower nor a lender be"
21:40 ben_vulpes someday, perhaps.
21:41 asciilifeform waiwat, ben_vulpes sold his software co??
21:42 mircea_popescu like six months ago. he said didn't he ?
21:42 asciilifeform hm, i must've somehow missed.
21:42 asciilifeform now other ben_vulpesiana , e.g. the log cabin, make moar sense.
21:42 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: what value would a consulting operation even have per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629388
21:42 a111 Logged on 2017-03-20 04:02 ben_vulpes: more specifically, "assuming one wants a car shop for purely emotional and recreational reasons, how to determine what to pay for it?" "calculate hardware liquidation price, discount four years of cashflow declining by 10-30% a year to today, and offer a dime over that"
21:43 ben_vulpes i did obliquely mention this, yes.
21:43 asciilifeform congrats, then, ben_vulpes , on being a free man
21:43 * asciilifeform takes off hat
21:43 mircea_popescu now quick to firesales to buy more shit to weigh down your pockets!
21:44 asciilifeform lol
21:44 asciilifeform it's a 1ce a decade or so thing, for asciilifeform
21:44 * asciilifeform not pro junk dealer
21:44 ben_vulpes eh, i'll settle for jewing my little brother down over the nsa backdoors in his gaming rigs
21:45 mircea_popescu i bet deep blue state watches his halo sick skillz.
21:45 ben_vulpes well he's liquidating them for a reason, neh?
21:45 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: far from free, but the new party is a good one.
21:46 asciilifeform if it dun involve commutes or offices or fluorescent lamps -- it's a goodone.
21:46 ben_vulpes and how.
21:47 ben_vulpes i still trek into town, but more for hysterical raisins and camaraderie.
21:48 ben_vulpes log cabin not yet built; train station operators pay for heat and a/c.
21:50 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> they also had a 2tonne safe, for some reason , in the back, and willing to let it go for cheap. but asciilifeform has neither flatbed nor crane nor concrete plinth. << Such things can be rented, ~300 - 700 for combination for whole day
21:51 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: house that can actually hold the safe, costs moar, however.
21:51 asciilifeform i haven't got 1 surface that wouldn't auger in under that thing, and that includes the mud liquishit that is the 'yard'
21:52 ben_vulpes replace yard with concrete!
21:53 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/X5We4/?raw=true
21:53 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
21:53 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: not far off from where i live, a d00d did this, city fined him and made him break it apart
21:53 asciilifeform ( for not getting the right permits, or somesuch fuckwittery )
21:54 ben_vulpes dang
21:55 ben_vulpes makes the pacific northwest sound like a not entirely miserable shithole, the place where you live
21:55 asciilifeform well i dun own properties, here or there, so it doesn't make much diff to me
21:56 ben_vulpes me neither, but i still happily tear up lawns, emplace shitboard sheds
21:56 asciilifeform i already have one of these.
21:56 asciilifeform approx size of a rail car
21:56 ben_vulpes have or emplaced
21:56 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i haven't got 1 surface that wouldn't auger in under that thing, and that includes the mud liquishit that is the 'yard' << Maybe you want have vault so it augers and sinks? Self burying treasure chest!
21:57 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: came with it
21:57 asciilifeform rather, house did
21:57 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'll do without burying treasures (which treasures..) in random rental back yard, kthx
21:58 * asciilifeform not mega-expert on treasure-buryin', but generally folx do it in places where they can later get to it unnoticed
21:58 BingoBoingo Or self burying trash dumpster, take your pick
21:58 ben_vulpes ah well
21:59 ben_vulpes in other totally-not-medium-rebrandeds: https://backchannel.com/how-one-little-cable-company-exposed-telecoms-achilles-heel-480e49b648bf
22:00 BingoBoingo Set in yard, build outhouse over, when ground threatens to overtake door close and leave gift for archaeologists.
22:01 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/05/cryptonote-family-of-altcorns-suffer-infinite-printing-bug/ << Qntra - "Cryptonote" Family Of Altcorns Suffer Infinite Printing Bug
22:02 BingoBoingo Gotta put future generations in their place and discourage grave robbing somehow
22:03 ben_vulpes oh gee fluffypony actual bandit now, eh?
22:03 asciilifeform 'The so-called "key image" as used in CryptoNote coins utilising elliptic curve ed25519 can be modified in a special way, allowing double-spends. ' << lel
22:03 asciilifeform Buy Moar Shitcoinz.
22:03 ben_vulpes > secretly patched by the monero team
22:04 asciilifeform how , incidentally, does this work
22:04 asciilifeform they release closed bins ?!
22:04 asciilifeform like microshit ?
22:04 asciilifeform or... nobody reads src ? or wat
22:04 shinohai Appears no one reads src ... twas commited on shithub
22:04 asciilifeform '2017-02-21: The patch is surreptitiously snuck into the Monero codebase in pull request #1744. It is kept secret to prevent it being used to attack other CryptoNote coins.'
22:05 asciilifeform what else, gotta ask, was 'surreptitiously snuck into the Monero codebase' .
22:05 asciilifeform or for that matter the init. release.
22:08 asciilifeform btw seems like they also twiddled the ecc params in that patch
22:09 asciilifeform also not mentioned at all, anywhere
22:09 asciilifeform https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/1744/files ftr.
22:10 asciilifeform !~later tell ave1 your mod-exp is just an... exp. and what was mcarry for ???
22:10 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
22:14 BingoBoingo lol http://qntra.net/2017/05/cost-of-running-shitware-continues-bull-run-to-the-moon/#comment-97654
~ 42 minutes ~
22:57 mircea_popescu ahahaha
23:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1658940 << open source dood, aren't you familiar with the "just the facts" horde yet ?
23:01 a111 Logged on 2017-05-19 02:04 shinohai: Appears no one reads src ... twas commited on shithub
23:03 shinohai Well despite the fact it took me what felt like eons, i did read ref client src when I started fiddling with trb.
23:04 mircea_popescu hey. they dun got time!
23:04 shinohai Might cut into the reddit posting time
23:05 shinohai "Mom sends down tendies @ 7pm sharp, can't ready during THAT hour."
23:06 mircea_popescu what's a tendies ?
23:07 shinohai A frozen chicken tender lovingly heated by Mom in the microwave before opening the second bottle of vodka.
23:07 mircea_popescu oh
~ 37 minutes ~
23:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-467054.txt
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