#trilema | 2015-07-08

decimation: sight redution tables for nother lats are avail from .mil in pdf

00:01

if you have a printer

00:05

whats ur approx lat decimation?

00:05

n/s?

00:06

around 40 n

00:07

fuck thats a long way north

00:08

yeah, and uk is even father

00:08

farther

00:08

really?

00:08

i cant even geography

00:09

usg charges for their nautical almanacs

00:09

http://bookstore.gpo.gov/agency/1449

00:09

Nautical Almanac Office | U.S. Government Bookstore ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZEU67 )

00:09

same infos free on .mil

00:09

australian?

00:09

maybe, i dunno whats in thr almanac

00:09

yes

00:09

yeah uk is roughly 50-60 n

00:10

london is 51 n

00:10

it's relatively warm because of the gulf stream

00:10

50s at aussie long is firmly in a world of shit

00:11

ottawa, canada is roughly 45 n for instance

00:11

but much colder

00:11

theres no land to slow the wind at 50s

00:12

50 s is well south of tasmania

00:13

that's probably why nobody lives on macquarie island

00:14

it might be national park

00:15

on eny given day you might meet a horny marine biologist

00:16

yeah apparently they killed all the mammals

00:17

http://people.csail.mit.edu/hofma/Assets/Thesis_12_02_2005.pdf << okay now this is cool

00:17

yeah rats, i saw that

00:25

man

00:25

i set up a raid0 with two SSDs

00:25

and windoze updates on this box still takes hours wtf

00:26

\o/

00:35

> windows

00:35

mk

00:35

help i am 1200 lines behind

00:35

have less sex.

00:39

do y'all eventually get to why averaging out umpteen 2016 blocks won't work in place of timekeeping?

00:39

!b 3

00:39

Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2J2VN7A.txt )

00:39

about 80% of it: use ntp! no time itself is owned by usg and so are all servers and isps!

00:39

ben_vulpes: for the same reason pulling one's cock doesn't work as a means of flight

00:40

what?

00:40

'in place of timekeeping'

00:40

sorry, diff adjustments.

00:41

ben_vulpes: they take place with wall clock as invariant

00:41

i spent all morning trying to hammer this into thick headz

00:41

if you plug block times into wall clock, letting the former adjust the latter, you've plugged arse into mouth

00:41

made good progress i see

00:42

and are no longer using classical bitcoin

00:42

alas.

00:42

the thing is miserably bad anyways, why would anyone want to use it?

00:42

still lost on me

00:43

anyways, how do you plan to handle this on pogos?

00:43

no idea

00:43

left it to ben_vulpes to solve

00:44

you know i'm not even convinced a node *should* be stood up without human intervention.

00:44

then shouldn't have any interest in pogo

00:44

because whole fucking point of it is that and only that.

00:44

well "should" is a strong word

00:45

point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin.

00:45

(and don't forget the merely lazy)

00:45

ben_vulpes: it seemed that there was some some concensus around the idea of randomly selecting a small set of ntp servers out of a large pre-defined set

00:45

this doesn't solve the "pogo clock is shit" problem

00:45

except then danielpbarron reminded us that this will have to happen regularly

00:45

because the thing drifts to all hell

00:46

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68400 @ 0.00055147 = 37.7205 BTC [-] {2}

00:46

(marvell chipset ~has~ rtc, but the vendor omitted the 32kHz crystal and power source.)

00:46

i'm sure moreso under load

00:46

so it uses interrupt-based timing, like msdos

00:46

aha, ben_vulpes has it

00:46

which means continous correction is nearly required

00:47

myeah, i see that.

00:47

asciilifeform: as to ass-to-mouth system, it depends on your error model for thblock timestamps

00:47

arse-to-mouth is a strictly fact-of thing

00:47

imagine each miner has his own cesium clock

00:48

and meet in the flesh to sync it ?

00:48

let's also imagine dragons.

00:48

try to grasp why political time is a fiction

00:48

and why rsa signatures do not make it less of one

00:48

asciilifeform: it's really hard to imagine when < 100 ns accuracy is nearly freely and reliably avaialable

00:49

picture the proverbial devil in the cable. he perhaps cannot diddle your packets (because you signed them, and have traded pubkeys in person) but he can... delay them

00:49

as long as he likes

00:49

and also can replay.

00:49

the accuracy doesn't matter because you have no way of knowing whether the above have been done to you

00:49

and when

00:51

much of our thought takes place in an imaginary world where communication is instantaneous, perfectly reliable, and perfectly incorruptible. but we do not actually live in that world.

00:51

nor do we get the luxury of precise, predictable delta from that world.

00:53

ntp has provisions against replay and deplay attacks

00:53

replay i can see

00:53

but delay ?

00:53

how ?

00:53

let me guess, by comparing the behaviour of one node with others

00:53

aka lifting yourself up by own cock.

00:54

in my expected battlefield, chances are that either none of your links are sybils, or ALL OF THEM ARE

00:54

comparing a subset of your field of vision with the rest does nothing against the latter.

00:55

plus the behaviour of one node over time

00:55

can be perfectly consistent

00:55

while leading you straight to hell

00:56

all of this goes back to the 'protocol vs promises' discussion

00:57

it is possible to count the pulses of a pulsar, of cesium atom, of quartz, etc

00:57

but as soon as you ask another person 'what time is it' you are playing political games

00:57

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/onwire.html The symmetric modes operate using a sequence of rounds, each consisting of a transmit packet followed by a receive packet, but either of both of these packets could be lost. A round is correct if both packets are correctly received. In order to verify correctness of the protocol, it is necessary to prove a liveness assertion; that is, the protocol always yields a correct round even if after

00:57

Object not found! ... ( http://bit.ly/1NN9O7t )

00:57

there is not actually a way out of this

00:57

<ben_vulpes> you know i'm not even convinced a node *should* be stood up without human intervention. << this may be true.

00:58

^ then there ought to be 100 nodes, running on 'microvax'

00:58

and the followin line does not follow. some intelligent people are poor, or more to wit : some poor people are (allegedly) intelligent. i doub this is true. but if it were, pogo is their way out.

00:58

because that's how many people alive are ~actually qualified~

00:58

and if they fail to find it, or to take it, you have no case.

00:58

<asciilifeform> point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin. << no. well meaning stupid is the LAST thing we want. i'd rather import us academia.

00:59

then wtf is the point

00:59

what you want is the alleged minialfs who exist. people who supposedly could use the head, but somehow magically "not enough fuel"

00:59

and if it has to be blessed with the magical breath of life of intelligence every time mains power flickers, it is a proverbial 'assembly line requiring ph.d.s' to borrow from al schwartz

00:59

i.e. a sad joke

00:59

now this is true

00:59

but notice that this does not run as far as the previous

00:59

that's all i was trying to say

00:59

aite.

01:00

there is also cuckoldry aspect here

01:00

one ought to be able to drop pogos on a dumb corp's net

01:00

and have them operate

01:01

no shortage of eligible cuckolds and cuckolders for this

01:01

but it has to be practical

01:01

I view the firewall/nat problem as much bigger

01:01

if you can do that, comandeer a server.

01:01

less noticeable than "wtf is this new item"

01:01

mircea_popescu: many, many more people who can 'commandeer' a broom closet with ethernet

01:01

believe.

01:01

and hardly ever anyone asks 'what is this'

01:01

so no, i do not believe pogo has anything to do with http://trilema.com/open-parasitic-p2p-relay

01:01

[OPEN] Parasitic P2P Relay on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaB8D )

01:01

not directly.

01:02

also in the news : the well rounded education. http://41.media.tumblr.com/00c3d0c2cdb22bedb8754888b020266e/tumblr_mtfjsjpKCf1ryftdoo1_1280.jpg

01:02

... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaCJC )

01:02

asciilifeform: you need a million tyler durdens.

01:02

and they *can* bless a pogo.

01:02

i thought those just set things on fire ?

01:03

and pogo is?

01:03

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-mob-technology-consultants-help-drug-traffickers/ < "The device they built looked like a European version of a power strip. Tucked inside a 15-by-5-inch casing was a tiny Linux computer running powerful hacking software called Metasploit. The pwnie sent out data via cellular networks, which meant they could be accessed from anywhere."

01:03

The Mob's IT Department | Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaNVl )

01:03

a land mine that has to be rebooted by hand every few weeks is a sad joke.

01:03

i stand by this.

01:03

maybe the land mine reboots you

01:03

decimation: not only classic, but so cliche that there are 1,001 commercial copies

01:03

" running powerful hacking software called Metasploit"

01:03

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114367/

01:03

Planète hurlante (1995) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaSbF )

01:04

who the fuck still reads these things

01:04

asciilifeform no, actually, it's a good idea.

01:04

i'd like land mines like that. so would every army out there.

01:04

apparently some mobster in amsterdam recruited a couple of nerds to exploit shipping companies

01:04

mircea_popescu: you want them on the other side, aha

01:04

shoot the idiots while they crawl around rebooting.

01:04

no, the problem with landmines atm is that they can't be safely defused

01:05

if you got 100% guaranteed 2 week only mines, o boy.

01:05

the 'safe defuse with key' thing already exists

01:05

you'd be rich with this. fo realz.

01:05

notice, not popular

01:05

cuz not reliable.

01:05

dun think thats why

01:05

rather, because winblowz

01:05

a 99.999% success rate is the last thing you want.

01:05

drop 1mn mines, get killed 10 times.

01:05

this is sop btw

01:05

ask folks who work with frags

01:06

there is a certain statistic for how many have, e.g., 1sec fuse

01:06

(if rated is 5)

01:06

'get killed 10 times' is actually doing pretty well ahead of the curve!

01:07

yeah plenty of folks die trying to learn how to throw gernades

01:07

the reason, afaik, why 'defuse with key' did not catch on is a ~well-founded~ distrust of computer

01:07

'computer', to an experienced commander, means 'twerp will cast a spell and enemy will walk clean across, shredding you'

01:08

this is what 25 yrs of winblowz did to the mind

01:08

it'll be generations after a sane computer exists that this kind of thinking even gets a chance of drawing to a close.

01:08

also 'we need soldiers who can do that'

01:09

<ascii_field> want a fucking WALL POSTER << codebase isn't that bad, should be doable by hand :P

01:09

for contrast: i just finished a neat little book (ru) on early artillery

01:09

early cannoneers accepted double-digit chances of being blown up by own barrel

01:09

ben_vulpes: go, do

01:09

no, u

01:09

then swear with your life that it's 100% covered

01:10

'isn't that bad' l0l

01:10

heh

01:12

decimation: re: 'round trip' ntp - you still are at the mercy of local clock's accuracy when computing the trip time

01:12

<trinque> haha holy shit, dxr's "install" method is vagrant << see also gitlab

01:12

if your local clock is shit, i can still induce you to rely on it more, more

01:12

and drift.

01:13

yes, true

01:13

vast quantities of braindamage.

01:13

ultimately there's no substitute for good hardware

01:13

i am trying - and apparently failing - to make the point that there is no such thing as 'good hardware' for finding out 'what time' it is on ~my~ atomic clock from across an ocean.

01:13

just so happens that the universe is 'bad hardware' for that.

01:14

even before you add a war

01:14

and yet, even usg manages to keep orbital rb clocks ticking

01:14

<BingoBoingo> phf: No, not yet. On OpenBSD I'm running an 0.7.2 derivative with LibreSSL 2.0 just to see how it behaves. << how's the libressl build going?

01:14

decimation: timebases!

01:14

not clocks

01:15

try to grasp the difference

01:15

and notice how easy it is to spoof'em

01:15

the thing is a house of cards

01:16

if your point is that they are centrally disciplined that's probably true

01:16

not only

01:16

but defenseless against a kid with sdr card.

01:16

* williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...

↖ ↖

01:17

chunk of meat in the desert, that flies have not found yet

01:17

at any rate, your objection to coordinating clocks seems to boil down to "can't carry messages of a known latency over spacetime"

01:17

how is this not the case?

01:18

if we were in space war, could probably carry on with something like the naive notion of clocks

01:18

limited only by sr, etc

01:19

but we are not in space.

01:19

but in a hell, with devils

01:19

on every wire.

01:19

so your objection boils down to 'enemy controls means of communication'

01:19

aha.

01:19

which is a reasonable point

01:19

but is applicable to the entire bitcoin enterprise equally

01:19

it is not.

01:19

because proof-of-work.

01:19

i can tell a zero-diff block and so can you

01:20

some things cannot be faked.

01:20

rsa also exists, and this prevents certain other spurious items

01:20

but these do not add up to a trustworthy clock.

01:21

this only emphasizes the point that there needs to be alternate communication media available

01:21

ionosphere will relay for free, cannot be pwned by usg

01:21

most fundamental problem is that distributed clocks are infinitely sybilable.

01:21

how the fuck do i know what is on the other end of ionosphere?

01:21

man, or usg gnome ?

01:21

you just said, rsa can solve that problem

01:22

only if i'm personally friends with fella who owns clock

01:22

indeed.

01:22

and the wall time i want to know is specifically his

01:22

or he's in your wot somehow

01:22

if 99% of miners use usg time, what's the use of wot-time?

01:23

if 99% of miners use gavincoin and spv, what is the use of therealbitcoin ?

01:23

excellent question

01:24

i suspect that mircea_popescu might answer that it is for the next set of miners

01:24

after the current set gets ddt sprayed on them

01:24

like all locusts deserve

01:25

the idea of a crypto-radio-clock intrigues me

01:26

I have a few sketches for such a thing, but I can't get around the problem of fixed keys that need to be distributed to listeners

01:26

i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks.

01:26

at least, clocks in the usual political sense.

01:26

that auto-scaling-difficulty thing seems crazy though

01:26

at least on a per-block basis

01:26

it is clearly not the solution

01:26

i linked to it to illustrate the sheer batshit

01:26

heh

01:27

the solution is to force the miners themselves into behaving like a pendulum with a period from which they, collectively, deviate at their peril.

01:27

i promise to explain this later.

01:27

sounds like it would involve incrementing the protocol version

01:28

it absolutely cannot work with classical bitcoin

01:28

but it is an interesting idea

01:28

and thus i am not entirely sure who would find it interesting here, and why

01:28

ben_vulpes: Still sync'd on BritneyChain

01:29

basic idea involves 'left-handed' and 'right-handed' miners, with game-theoretical reward matrix of being one depending on the first derivative in the hashing power of the other.

01:29

still trying to model this.

01:30

i think mircea_popescu designed something like that for eulora

01:30

did he ?

01:30

link ?

01:30

players vs. the game. conversation in ars.

01:30

hm

01:30

i suppose he can answer when reads log..

01:31

balancing of rewards for being mage/barbarian/etc over time

01:31

essentially you want the entire network to have a 'resonant frequency'

01:31

which can now be your timebase.

01:32

why settle for little quartz crystals

01:32

when you can use a planet-sized resonator.

01:32

that reminds me of schumann resonances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

01:32

Schumann resonances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIq0aS )

01:33

decimation: i'm still waiting to read a non-batshit explanation of schumann

01:33

(was also thinking of it earlier today)

01:33

hehe

01:33

it's lightning sprites and earthquakes

01:33

actually I suspect the solar wind buffeting the magnetosphere is a factor

01:34

what i meant was, i'd like to see a rational calculation of why the freq.

01:34

until then, it's voodo

01:35

this crazy czech runs a vaccum-pendulum radio clock http://ok0epb.nagano.cz/index.php?page=Main+page/

01:35

Main page - OK0EPB - 7 039,4 kHz ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIqgXm )

01:35

state-of-the-art till the '50s iirc

01:38

*

asciilifeform bbl

~ 43 minutes ~

02:21

ag3nt_zer0

!rate trinque 1 very helpful to noob

02:21

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/c39f0df9608c7058

02:22

ag3nt_zer0

!rate shinohai 1 great help to noob

02:22

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/49ae2cc4cb75f970

02:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84300 @ 0.00054193 = 45.6847 BTC [-] {4}

02:33

ag3nt_zer0: thanks guy

02:33

ben_vulpes: so pipelinedb turned out to be YC shitware

02:33

http://www.pipelinedb.com/

02:33

PipelineDB—The Streaming SQL Database ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjMpkj )

02:34

all they did can be done with triggers, background workers and materialized views

02:34

and they had the nerve to *RENAME POSTGRESQL TO SOMETHING ELSE*

02:36

meanwhile they did not do the one thing that might've been interesting (that I can see), which would've been to fire pg_notify events when the results of a given view change

~ 22 minutes ~

02:59

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-08/china-trade-halts-hit-2-2-trillion-as-state-intervention-fails

02:59

China Stock Sellers Frozen Out of 71% of Market - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjP4KO )

03:04

"The eurozone has given Greece until Thursday to present new proposals to secure a deal with creditors, and has called a full EU summit for Sunday."

03:14

yep, it's the end of the world.

03:15

after this unwinds 1929 will look like glbse by comparison.

03:15

I'll stock up on Tetris http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27846-tetris-blocks-traumatic-flashbacks-even-after-the-memory-is-fixed.html

03:15

Tetris blocks traumatic flashbacks even after the memory is fixed - health - 06 July 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjR4mf )

03:20

lots of greek banks in the balkans, I wonder what's gonna happen with those

03:23

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e2a57c5e809f4da3a46aa7c1ba94bf10/exposed-greek-banks-balkans-brace-trouble

03:23

Exposed to Greek banks, Balkans brace for trouble ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjRY22 )

03:25

PatentChina 1 hour ago

03:25

imagine what will happen if month later no china crash is seen? but USA has advantage that it will never feel shame. one lie does not come true, there is another one. and in the end they can still say china has hacked usa without any evidences. Repeating lies 1000 times, it becomes truth. that is how USA invaded Iraq.

03:25

lol

03:27

anyway, hopefully they manage to prop it, because if they do not and people start unwinding us holdings on the grounds of the massive yuan profits to be thus made, that's that.

03:30

!up ValentinJesse

03:41

ag3nt_zer0

"But getting the game into a person's hands immediately after they have been raped, for example, won't always be practical, so the team tested whether it could still work a day later – after the memory had been consolidated and slept on." haha

~ 22 minutes ~

04:04

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1192874 not TRIMmed, praps?

04:04

Logged on 08-07-2015 04:25:37; mats: and windoze updates on this box still takes hours wtf

~ 55 minutes ~

05:00

cazalla

good logs, good meal, no good wine to go with it but 2/3 ain't bad eh

~ 30 minutes ~

05:30

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00055343 = 25.015 BTC [+] {2}

~ 59 minutes ~

06:30

williamdunne: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-06-2015#1153851

06:30

Logged on 04-06-2015 15:16:44; williamdunne: http://gamingfurry.tumblr.com/

06:35

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193046 << bahahaha

06:35

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:16:27; ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...

~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~

07:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40748 @ 0.00055343 = 22.5512 BTC [+]

~ 20 minutes ~

08:18

<asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin

08:21

the problem of what kind of clock foot soldier P needs depends on exact specification of role foot soldier P needs to play

08:22

a node with no clock could still be a useful one, depending on what you had in mind

08:36

;;view 22382

08:36

#22382 Wed Jul 8 08:30:46 2015 punkman SELL 1.0 night @ 1.3 btc (Seaside villa in Creta, Greece. 4bdr, sleeps 8, a/c, wifi, etc. 3min walk to beach. discounts on certain dates. http://i.imgur.com/DqYiA5O.jpg)

08:38

!up diana_coman

08:38

kakobrekla

punkman yours?

08:39

kakobrekla: no, but I've been there a few times

08:40

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/in-russia-selfie-takes-you-prompts-official-safety-selfie-warning/

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8202 @ 0.00055343 = 4.5392 BTC [+]

~ 21 minutes ~

09:01

kakobrekla

09:02

In Russia, selfie takes you, prompts official “safety selfie” warning | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1NSgQIW )

09:03

bagels7

Hi, does anyone happen to know the title of that trilema article that explains how women are immature and basically blame men for their shortcomings

09:06

bagels7

who needs money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjUJIziMe-4

09:06

Ten Years After - I'd Love To Change The World (lyrics) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NShKVE )

09:07

!rated bagels7

09:07

You have not rated bagels7.

09:07

!gettrust bagels7

09:07

Trust relationship from user gabriel_laddel to user bagels7: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=gabriel_laddel&to=bagels7 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/bagels7/

~ 1 hours ~

10:07

;;later tell mircea_popescu http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/07/days-after-hacking-team-breach-nobody-fired-no-customers-lost << mega-l0l

10:07

Days after Hacking Team breach, nobody fired, no customers lost | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1MeFt1k )

10:07

The operation succeeded.

10:08

cazalla: BingoBoingo http://www.comcastro.com/podcast-virtual-currency-bitcoin-new-world-order-stevie-frederick/ << i did a qntra shoutout there

10:08

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193160 << 'Fixed difficulty (0.05) / Block reward reduces 4% every 1000 blocks' (from tardstalk)

10:08

Logged on 08-07-2015 12:18:05; funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin

10:08

and appears to be long-dead... to nobody's great surprise

10:09

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193162 << can be very useful as a boat anchor! or balloon ballast.

10:09

Logged on 08-07-2015 12:22:35; funkenstein_: a node with no clock could still be a useful one, depending on what you had in mind

10:11

asciilifeform: when you can use a planet-sized resonator. << each planet would have a different frequency

10:12

thestringpuller: was not speaking of the chunk of rock per se. see thread.

10:21

'...Greece's creditors refuse to consider declaring all of this bad debt null and voidnot because of anything having to do with Greece, which is small enough to be forgiven much of its bad debt without causing major damage, but because of Spain, Italy and others, which, if similarly forgiven, would blow up the finances of the entire European Union. Thus, it is rather obvious that Greece is being punished to keep other count

10:21

ries in line... Add to this a double-helping of double standards. The IMF won't lend to Greece because it requires some assurance of repayment; but it will continue to lend to the Ukraine, which is in default and collapsing rapidly, without any such assurances because, you see, the decision is a political one. The European Central Bank no longer accepts Greek bonds as collateral because, you see, it considers them to be junk;

10:21

but it will continue to suck in all sorts of other financial garbage and use it to spew forth Euros without comment, keeping other European countries on financial life support simply because they aren't Greece.'

10:21

( http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/07/financial-nonsense-overload.html )

10:21

ClubOrlov: Financial Nonsense Overload ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnSkEf )

10:28

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/07/08/report-big-job-cuts-expected-microsoft/29853657/ "Microsoft's deal to acquire Nokia's handset business in 2013 -- one of the last acts of outgoing CEO Steve Ballmer -- has been a "head-scratcher" from the beginning, says FBR Capital Markets analyst Daniel Ives."

10:28

Microsoft cutting up to 7,800 jobs ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnTuzw )

10:32

decimation: just how many people does the redmond beast need to collect winblowz rent and craft 'bugs' ?

10:32

i doubt they need as many as 700

10:34

masked gunman to clerk: "I'm here to keep you on financial life support"

10:34

!b 1

10:34

Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/20MK5PF.txt )

10:35

http://www.fpgarelated.com/showarticle/790.php

10:35

Homebrew CPUs: Messing around with a J1 - Victor Yurkovsky ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnUJir )

10:36

mats: i remember that one - pretty neat! http://www.excamera.com/sphinx/fpga-j1.html << original www of it

10:36

The J1 Forth CPU — excamera ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnUVOA )

10:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76353 @ 0.00057177 = 43.6564 BTC [+] {3}

10:44

;;ticker

10:44

Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 273.09, Best ask: 273.16, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 273.08, 24 hour volume: 28460.65127183, 24 hour low: 263.0, 24 hour high: 274.11, 24 hour vwap: None

~ 18 minutes ~

11:02

that forth cpu seems similar to that 'picolisp' cpu

11:03

o lawd

11:03

the end is nigh

~ 15 minutes ~

11:19

http://pastebin.com/EdtwCsw1 <-- just for fun i made signed 250kb TX sending 11 millies from "cat" spam address to thebitcoin.foundation treasury

11:19

01000000fdb40402806ffd51e0b01cc9254067cd12878c9b5869d7ee30a56843c9e16590fea57b02 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1NSGH3p )

11:19

but i was unable to broadcast

11:24

apparently transactions larger than some magic number cannot even get relayed by nodes, and only a miner can forcibly include it in a block

11:28

mircea hit that with bitbet payouts, there's vitriolic trilema piece somewhere

11:29

asciilifeform: i was more imagining each planet having it's own blockchain, but I guess that's

11:29

danielpbarron: you tried to feed it to 0.5.3.1 ?

11:34

thestringpuller: if they did, it'd be an altcoin aka; marscoin, uranuscoin etc

11:37

mod6: lol ur-anus-coin

11:37

hue hue

11:38

=]

11:44

asciilifeform why would they fire anyone ?

11:44

they're lucky anyone at all wants to work for them as it is.

11:48

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193020 << sure, this is a fact.

11:48

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:09:39; asciilifeform: early cannoneers accepted double-digit chances of being blown up by own barrel

11:48

heh: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102806720

11:49

jurov> danielpbarron: you tried to feed it to 0.5.3.1 << is it possible? when I type 'bitcoind help' I do not see the "send raw signed transaction" command

11:49

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193059 << myeah.

11:49

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:19:44; asciilifeform: it is not.

11:49

danielpbarron iirc asciilifeform made a patch

11:49

o nm that was fpr whole blocks

11:50

maybe i'm mistaken, i thought it was alwas possible to submit tx

11:50

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193066 << i would not bet on that.

11:50

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:21:24; decimation: ionosphere will relay for free, cannot be pwned by usg

11:50

nah jurov i recall people using their own tools for that throughout

11:51

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193079 << miners have no identity.

11:51

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:24:07; asciilifeform: after the current set gets ddt sprayed on them

11:51

they are the exact equivalent of materiel. the humvees the usg lost to isis work for isis just as well.

11:53

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193083 << this is rank nonsense. to be money it will have to handle time.

11:53

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:26:05; asciilifeform: i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks.

11:53

> bitcoind: Argument list too long << my 0.7.2 node didn't like it

11:53

what you're saying is basically "i'm more interested in food that doesn't rely on being digested"

11:57

i don't think it's even checking the validity of the tx, and is instead rejecting the hex string as being too long; I can get my 0.5.3 node to give the same error and it doesn't recognize the method

11:58

lol 0.7 implemented tx manipulation that doesn't work on 1mb sized txn ?

12:03

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193153 << better than the queen gets.

12:03

Logged on 08-07-2015 09:00:25; cazalla: good logs, good meal, no good wine to go with it but 2/3 ain't bad eh

12:04

danielpbarron i tried electrum, it parsed tx properly

12:04

but broadcast error: {u'message': u'64: tx-size', u'code': -26}

12:06

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193046 << nah, I wasn't the one being asphyxiated, and the marks are not the result of it

12:06

Logged on 08-07-2015 05:16:27; ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...

12:08

it's okay, no one here will judge you :p

12:09

*

williamdunne pondering on confessing to my skat fetish

12:09

;; ud skat

12:09

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skat | skat. taking a shit in someones mouth and having them eat it. I love getting a big load of skat in my mouth its so good. by skat eater September 20, 2003. 419 333.

12:09

o.o

12:09

;;google scatman

12:10

THE SCATMAN - Scatman John HD1080p - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6oXW_YiV6g>; Scatman (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-bop) Official Video HD -Scatman John ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8kmNEo1i8>; Scatman John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatman_John>

12:19

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/07/us-usa-crime-childporn-idUSKCN0PH24C20150707

12:19

FBI seized child porn website with 215,000 users: court filing| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1IJsTYO )

12:19

North

12:19

Carolina

12:19

Server

12:22

what are cat cables and how do I network computers together without a web browser.

12:26

You've got to connect the CAT 3 BSD cable into your Universal Parallel Networking port and install the latest ApacheBSD drivers, and then BGP route your HardDrive into the global local network, repeating these steps for each computer on the network. And once this is complete you plug cables into each of your available body holes and pray for IP issuance, prior to jamming each cable into your nearest USB hub

12:26

that reads like eulora recipes

12:27

oh, sorry, I should have made it clear I was referring to the child pornography thing

12:28

jurov: Well, I'm employable

12:29

gernika

mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though.

12:29

!up _biO_

12:30

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00057258 = 15.5169 BTC [+]

12:31

buenos dias

12:32

hola

12:32

como estas?

12:32

muy bien

12:32

¿y tu, comrade?

12:33

fenomenal

12:33

¿de veras? ¿porque?

12:33

companero ? compadre ?

12:34

'twas a sovietism

12:34

Aterricé un trabajo

12:34

writing CL + mcclim

12:34

the sovietism is tovarash

12:34

go me

12:35

oh fuck you srsly

12:35

the world is not my fault!

12:35

not you, gabriel_laddel

12:35

olol

12:36

gabriel_laddel: let me tell you of the salt mines of my homeworld...

12:36

<+gernika> mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though. << good to hear though

12:36

ben_vulpes: go on ahead

12:36

there is a SaaS that handles users for people who for whatever reason don't want to stand up their own services and servers.

12:36

developers working with this service can alter its behavior by providing it 'node' code that it executes on login/registration events

12:37

their sandbox provides precisely one map of dummy data.

12:37

it is not configurable in any way.

12:37

the suggested way to cram code into their orifices is by pasting it into text fields.

12:38

one can configure post-commit hooks in git, but their logic importer a) only works with github and b) only works with public repositories.

12:38

...

12:38

now on one hand that this thing doesn't give programmers any handles to alter test data is fine, in that it forces one to either work in a js repl or you know /actually write tests/

12:38

otoh

12:38

braindamage.

12:39

anyways i don't believe you nobody gets paid to write common lisp lalala i can't hear you

12:39

I suggest you don't contemplate the loper device.

12:39

it might be a danger to your health

12:39

you say that as though there were an option.

12:45

i daresay loper machine depends on solved halting problem

12:45

359k+

12:45

jurov: how so?

12:45

jurov: the routing can't be that difficult

12:45

it's supposed to predict resources exhaustion at any time so that operator can be alerted

12:46

jurov: No it isn't. It just eats all required resources and (maybe) returns.

12:46

(I think)

12:47

What happens if I (loop while t do ...) on a von n. arch? it just runs forever. Same thing.

12:47

Don't do that.

12:48

Now, I think the "language constructs" map directly to routing logic, so the AST "unrolls" onto the hardware

12:48

but I've not sat down to work it out

12:48

Lol

12:49

One of the "lizardsquad" guys just got charged with 50,700 offences

12:49

if i learned anything from my haskell stint, it's how computer is utterly bad to manage its memory and other resources

12:50

even if you specify in most precise detail how to do stuff without side effects, you still have to hold its hand in order to not exhaust the memory

12:50

<jurov> it's supposed to predict resources exhaustion at any time so that operator can be alerted << in principle machine does not have to proceed before it wants to.

12:51

i am sure gabriel_laddel proposed "don't do that" won' cut it with alf - but i am also sure a "sometimes warn before" behaviour would be acceptable.

12:55

[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.157 = 1.099 BTC [-] {2}

12:56

!up ascii_field

12:57

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193223 << there are not so many of these.

12:57

Logged on 08-07-2015 15:44:41; mircea_popescu: they're lucky anyone at all wants to work for them as it is.

12:57

ahahaha wut ?

12:58

dude get out, they're the website of 2015. every two bit 20something schmuck with two friends and a girlfriend has started one, last year.

12:58

places for folks to write malware and get serious clean money for it

12:58

there is at least one million of them. i have stopped even trying to count past 100k last year.

12:58

SERIOUS money

12:58

get out

12:58

they never saw even a decent salary.

12:58

not 'work 12 hours to make min wage while you sleep'

12:58

this recently raped one made less than gawker.

12:59

cut how many ways ?

12:59

(i assume the truth lies somewhere in those 500 GB...)

12:59

the boys made slightly more than they'd have made working for gawker, on the grounds that they're asocial weirdos.

12:59

the girls made about the same.

13:00

there were girls ?!!

13:00

we're not talking enough to be middle class here.

13:00

yes.

13:00

where ?

13:00

guy's gf.

13:00

didn't see any obvious ones in the 'git' login config

13:00

right.

13:01

someone did the accounting and the sucking sudanese cock you know.

13:01

aha

13:01

[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.157 = 1.413 BTC [-] {2}

13:01

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193239 << 'handle time' != 'use customary electronic clocks'

13:01

Logged on 08-07-2015 15:53:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193083 << this is rank nonsense. to be money it will have to handle time.

13:01

granted

13:01

but you're not taking time out of it.

13:01

time is in.

13:01

aite.

13:03

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193275 << compadre

13:03

Logged on 08-07-2015 16:32:33; ben_vulpes: ¿y tu, comrade?

13:03

*

ascii_field buys ben_vulpes dictionary

13:04

anyway, this is what powers my disinterest in the matter. i saw in logs this pov is divergent with teh republic, so i'll entertain the alternative viewpoint, but just for the sake of records.

13:04

mircea_popescu: which ?

13:04

scoopbot_revived

The situation of Greece http://trilema.com/2015/the-situation-of-greece/

13:05

ascii_field re the "yet another bedroom derpitude" thread just before.

13:05

the clocks?

13:06

'hackteam' ?

13:06

which derpitude ?

13:07

jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193305 << if at some point i proposed a thing that requires 'solved halting problem' please say!

13:07

Logged on 08-07-2015 16:45:07; jurov: i daresay loper machine depends on solved halting problem

13:07

hackteam

13:07

o look at teh nyse btw.

13:07

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102806720 << lulz

13:07

... ( http://bit.ly/1Hh3uAu )

13:07

Run Moar Winblowz!!!

13:08

trades haulted, no suprise there.

13:08

*halted

13:08

I wonder if any sysadmins are gonna jump out of some windows

13:08

next, like .cn, selling banned

13:08

mod6 "our free market is this thing you can only buy!!1"

↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖

13:08

bwahaha

13:09

and this is somehow ~not a scam~

13:09

right

13:09

then they want to "regulate" biutcoin

13:09

make it more like the fiat ponzi system

13:09

the gall.

13:09

srsly.

13:10

!b 10

13:10

Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3263M1Y.txt )

13:10

i fully expected this after hearing the cn thing

13:10

they totally know it's not a 'cyber attack'

13:10

anyway, they had no choice.

13:10

chinese decided to unwind

13:10

raise yer hand if you thought ft meade would leave nyse switched on

13:10

nah was not possibru.

13:11

ft meade does what wall st wants, not vice versa

13:11

really a distinction without a difference

13:11

so i'm trying to build the stator, getting "headers.h:21:27: fatal error: openssl/ecdsa.h: No such file or directory"

13:11

does liver do what spleen wants or spleen, liver

13:11

Chinese dumping US stocks now, I'm presuming. Need to pump some filthy fiat into their own markets

13:11

davout: your openssl did not build

13:11

davout: did you have the tarballs in place ?

13:11

also make sure you build the right one

13:12

there is a MANIFEST

13:12

i have openssl-1.0.1g.tar.gz in distfiles

13:12

check the hashes plus sigs

13:12

that one yea

13:12

(using mod6's build script)

13:12

^^^^ ~that~'s why doesn't work

13:12

his scripts never worked for me

13:12

you need to use "stator.sh" that comes with the stator tarball

13:12

you probably have the 'realpath' issue

13:13

which is because debian is fucktarded

13:13

this too ^^

13:13

ok, i'll do this, thank yall!

13:13

a could be

13:13

davout: what os?

13:13

gentoo

13:13

tech support at its best is keeping a list of who's fucktarded.

13:13

yeah, that auto.sh has problems there.

13:13

sad state of affairs.

13:13

davout: for now, skip the auto.sh and use my scripts

13:13

very short and simple to grasp

13:14

and pretty much guaranteed to work on gentoo

13:14

just be sure to check the distfile hashes

13:14

in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzevzzvPKk1rovqsto1_500.gif

13:14

... ( http://bit.ly/1CoVT6S )

13:14

don't grab the wrong ones

13:14

aha. this is not automated in mine

13:14

ok

13:14

where's the stator tarball?

13:14

mircea_popescu: brilliant. ought to be installed in every american gym

13:14

mircea_popescu: For some reason she looks like a giant

13:15

davout: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000102.html

13:15

... ( http://bit.ly/1CoW4z5 )

13:15

low camera williamdunne

13:15

*

williamdunne was a terrible art student

13:15

mircea_popescu: you're right

13:16

mircea_popescu: let's have the finale of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193367 ?

13:16

Logged on 08-07-2015 17:07:03; mircea_popescu: hackteam

13:16

generally the difference between advertising set and porn set is that porn set cameras all set crotch height

13:17

ascii_field what's more to say ?

13:17

grab those, verify, unpack; beware that you need to drop openssl/bdb/boost in distfiles by hand. and ascii_field's script doesn't want boost.tar.gz, wants boost.tar.bz

13:17

mircea_popescu: no, it isn't 'greatest leak ever' - but certainly the most complete gutting of a usg contractor in history

13:17

follow this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/stator-buildlog-wDumpBlockAndEatBlockApplied.txt

13:17

... ( http://bit.ly/1FYJMZi )

13:17

everything but the ashtray

13:17

no argument.

13:17

you will notice it is not actually a usg contractor. it's a sudanese contractor.

13:17

These "decentralize all the things" fuckwads are really pissing me off re: NYSE

13:18

mircea_popescu: usg was a major client

13:18

the difference between this and an "etsy shop" is color scheme.

13:18

and of course it was the крыша

13:18

i dunno, seems more like it was a major alleged client.

13:18

picture what would happen if ~i~ tried to open a 'hackteam'

13:18

dunno how much you know about how teenaged girls suck cock these days

13:18

but the way it goes, they pretend to be selling to X so Y may buy

13:18

about as much as i know of penguins

13:18

ascii_field nobody would even notice.

13:18

it's all in your head.

13:19

i bet half of your coworkers are "secretly" part of one.

13:19

it truely is the band of 2015.

13:19

l0l

13:19

i kid you not. but i do not expect anyone to take this on faith.

13:19

fact is, monetizing virii requires a крыша

13:20

dude...

13:20

no srsly

13:20

unlike penguin and gurlz, i know this from direct observation

13:20

are you even from this planet at ALL ? do you know how much can be passed off as work before even as much as touching a tool ?

13:20

mircea_popescu: Some are pretty enthusiastic about it

13:20

yes, playing in a band requires a guitar.

13:20

so ? got any sticks ?

13:20

music with no ears.

13:21

every kid in a barage gand in 1955 had ear ?

13:21

what ear. they're americans.

13:21

anybody can write turdware, yes

13:21

i am speaking of ~money~

13:21

also all in your head.

13:21

https://twitter.com/cgledhill/status/618830161144901632

13:21

People must care because SJWs signed a petition, wao

13:21

these particular kids would have made more scamming in eve

13:21

but hey.

13:21

#1 fintech influencer supposedly

13:22

mircea_popescu: from what i can tell, the 'hackteam' folks were paid hundreds of thousands of euros to do things that i consider a weekend's work

13:22

this is called 'crown concession'

13:23

start one then.

13:23

l0l

13:23

all you need is the girlie to suck sudan cock.

13:23

ask on craigslist

13:23

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2015#1002367

13:23

Logged on 02-02-2015 07:04:28; asciilifeform: dude really, it is very easy to fly. just bend your arms into an effective lift surface, right angle of attack, and fart really hard.

13:23

ask.on.craigslist.

13:24

*

ascii_field utterly fails to grasp what mircea_popescu is speaking of

13:24

say "Very gifted reverse engineer, looking for outgoing, persuasive, experienced slut to start hackteam together. You'll have to suck bureaucrat cock to get us contracts, I'll fill them, we split the loot."

13:25

mircea_popescu: guess where i'm posting from

13:25

it doesn't work unless you have access to the right cock

13:25

the congress library

13:25

and we - thus far - don't.

13:25

eh get outta here.

13:25

srsly

13:25

that's HER job.

13:25

despite, for instance, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-06-2015#1175261

13:25

Logged on 25-06-2015 03:01:25; asciilifeform: i built it.

13:25

pack her off to whatever, sierra leone

13:25

we don't have any gurlz though

13:26

sucks to be us.

13:26

i think the network just forked again

13:26

thing i'm beginning to suspect is that nobody gives half a shit about reversing, or 'security', or any of it

13:26

but only launders usg money

13:26

with pre-selected butt buddies

13:26

^

13:27

the first part is right.

13:27

ph0rk!

13:27

mmyeah.

13:27

!up ascii_field

13:29

and ima go play eulora in celebration.

13:41

unph0rk3d ?

13:41

aaaand https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000000024d5e8b9010d61d93550bfd022a5d8f613f7daa620456f8 l0l

13:41

Bitcoin Block #364437 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp22jF )

13:41

It's okay guyz, NYSE is turning itself off and on again

13:42

nyse mining bitcoins?

13:47

Yeah, they've got some celerons on the job

13:58

!up ascii_field

13:58

http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/

13:58

Project IceStorm ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKXug8 )

13:59

^ some people reverse engineered an fpga's bitstream format

13:59

*a fpga...

13:59

'We have enough bits mapped that we can create a functional verilog model for almost all bitstreams generated by Lattice iCEcube2 for the iCE40 HX1K-TQ144, as long as no block memories or PLLs are used. ' << wake me up when that last part changes. and when i can get this chip from ten different chinese foundries.

14:00

this all happened before, with xilinx

14:00

and we know how it ends.

14:01

'Next on the TODO list: PLLs, Timing Analysis...' << ahahahahahaha

14:01

try synthesizing ~anything~ of any serious complexity without exact timing data for ~every piece of shit on the die~

14:02

i gotta take my hat off to these folks for sheer effort, but the fact remains that they are scooping out the sea with the proverbial thimble.

14:05

To any "hackers" reading the logs - rather than going after hackteam, try xilinx, lattice semiconductor next time?

14:05

('how it ends,' for the uninitiated, is that some time around when these fine folks are about half done, the chip will go out of print. and be replaced by an entirely incompatible one.)

14:06

gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.

14:06

a 'doxxed' fpga is entirely useless if you can't get it!

14:07

ascii_field: imho this is going to be a slow process of ad-hoc reverse engineering of a design, finding chiacom manufactures...

14:07

it is, after all, a physical object.

14:07

someone needs to carry the water.

14:07

gabriel_laddel: there is no mass market for these.

14:07

we had this thread before.

14:07

!s bribery

14:07

9 results for 'bribery' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bribery

14:07

not bribery as such, just that you'd have to pay the fab up front, cash on the barrel

14:07

to have any made.

14:08

not a bribe, but straightforward commerce

14:09

gabriel_laddel: another detail that must be understood is that reversing for the purpose of programming is a very different animal from reversing for the purpose of rebuilding.

14:10

in the case of the latter, it is necessary to have a ~complete~ picture of the vital organs

14:10

including aspects that a programmer doesn't give a flying fuck about, like chemistry

14:10

and in-circuit testing

14:14

Unrelated: Uncle Al's disqus profile. It is a treat. https://disqus.com/by/Xemist/

14:14

Disqus Profile - Xemist ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp6BdM )

14:14

gabriel_laddel: good to see that he's still kicking, somewhere

14:15

Orange County iirc?

14:16

gabriel_laddel: i suspected he might have 'went perelman'

14:16

gabriel_laddel: About 12 months ago I was tasked with checking the security of a fiat institution. Within three hours I had found two different bugs to send money from accounts that weren't mine, and two different bugs to view all account details that weren't mine, and another to see all transaction details that weren't mine.

14:16

williamdunne: !

14:17

IKR, the operator was a friend of mine, but he was very concerned when I sent him the details for a large transaction from themselves to a law firm they employ

14:18

Speaking of Uncle Al - not only did the 'gentlemen' at the eot wash group modify their URL scheme so that his links appear "dead", but Stanford has also moved the single link in qz4.html

14:18

williamdunne: and that was when he put out your eyes and cut out your tongue ?

14:18

gabriel_laddel: big fat surprise

14:18

lol check this out

14:18

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/sites/www.npl.washington.edu.eotwash/files/webfiles/publications/pdfs/lowfrontier2.pdf

14:18

... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp7fb7 )

14:18

ascii_field: not quite, although I do regret agreeing to do it pro-bono

14:18

^ new url scheme vs.

14:18

http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/publications/pdf/lowfrontier2.pdf

14:18

Page not found | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp7hj7 )

14:20

williamdunne: so you're the guy who makes the spice flow?

14:20

what exactly do you do?

14:21

Hard to pin that one down

14:21

doya have a cv or the like?

14:21

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/neuroskeptic/the_strange_world_of_8220reward_deficiency_syndrome8221_part_2/#comment-2118094177

14:21

Disqus - The Strange World of “Reward Deficiency Syndrome” (Part 2) ... ( http://bit.ly/1TlSFWh )

14:21

many lulz

14:22

'Be homicidally depressed and aim at the top. That is like voting, except the count is honest and meaningful.'

14:22

ahahaha

14:22

I've never received a job by anything but reference. First job when I was 14 was a game programmer, second job when 15 was working at a military intelligence company in London doing some infosec and accounting type stuff. Lots of freelancing stuff

14:22

Security, programming, pretty much anything with a keyboard

14:24

Recently did some stuff for the BitFinex guys, that wasn't much fun but y'know. Pays for stuff. Think I'll have more with them in future

14:29

!up ascii_field

14:30

!up NewLiberty

14:32

What happened to that German socialist girl, she ever come back to continue her derping?

↖ ↖

14:44

http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << l0ltr0n1c

14:44

The Polymath Archives: The Inappropriately Excluded ... ( http://bit.ly/1TlVir1 )

14:49

"The antidote to national social and financial collapse is war. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of social and economic realities. It rewards the creative, productive, and effective. It reduces redundant populations. North Korea, India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia (paid for Paki research, repaid by Paki nukes) stare down some 1000 exceptionally well-crafted and deliverable Israeli thermonukes.

14:49

Fukishima effluent on California's coast chews up the food chain to seals. 39 million person California, tremendously government subsidized, is collapsed. Its unsecured debt is the Saudi GNP while its $45 billion/year agriculture Central Valley has returned to desert, unemploying a million Mexican slaves with nowhere to go. Let's run the Battle of the Somme again, and soon. The jet stream dips south in autumn." (fr

14:49

om Uncle Al)

14:53

war doesn't really reduce redundant population

14:53

bounces right back after the war, if there's a dip at all

14:58

uh

15:02

!up ascii_field

15:02

'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)

15:04

mats: I am not finding a good graph of the russian population per year, yet I recall ww2 being a temporary blip downward that was rapidly recovered

15:04

and they sustained huge casualties

15:10

the specific claim being made is 'redundant populations'

15:10

how do we evaluate this claim

15:13

there'd have to be some correlation between an indicator of this redundancy before the war and which soldiers died

15:14

"unskilled laborers died more often than ..." << maybe something like that

15:17

'12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife, three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schwartz

15:18

mats: but then even if the stupid tend to die more often, it could still be so that the stupid back home fuck enough to replenish stocks

15:20

ain't social science great

15:21

trinque: intelligence doesn't breed true. (stupidity, however, does. this confuses folks)

15:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00057258 = 8.5314 BTC [+]

15:30

ascii_field: I don't follow

15:30

ah that intelligence is not necessarily passed down genetically?

15:30

definitely not

15:32

!up ascii_field

15:33

trinque: also most folks who idly ponder the subject end up conflating several distinct things under 'intelligence'

15:34

far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'

↖ ↖ ↖ ↖

15:34

which is the thing without which arbitrarily strong 'intelligence' ends up a chinese exam taker

15:35

interestingly, old norse, even, had a very specific word for this trait

15:36

*

ascii_field does not have the link with him. if anyone recalls the answer, do chime in

15:36

old norse probably had an honorable term for the thing

15:37

ascii_field: something like the combination of dominance and being a social supernode?

15:37

no.

15:38

mircea_popescu chronically links the two, but they are entirely independent

15:38

one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely

15:40

specifically, you can have arbitrarily high 'psychoticism' in the sense of being perelman and no 'dominance' or 'social supernode' to speak of.

15:43

ascii_field: then is it a measure of the willingness to fight other people?

15:43

again no

15:43

if you must reduce it to a soundbite - it is just a measure of the quality of the rng in your head

15:44

nothing to do with relating to other people.

15:44

ascii_field: I am promting you to define the term instead of merely restating it

15:44

I do not follow that definition either

15:45

trinque: i am certain that, just like everyone else here, you have met both kinds of 'intelligence'

15:45

i.e. 'champion at exams' vs the other kind.

15:46

sure, and the former is deeply embedded in a group concept of what he ought to be doing

15:46

and the latter has his own idea

15:46

what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?

15:47

general obedience is what I see

15:47

!up jborkl

15:49

ascii_field: by good RNG do you mean that they are capable of novel thoughts?

15:49

rather, that they have a greater capacity for ...

15:50

The way it has been before, not all nodes have the same amount of txns in mempool - I never got enough of a explanation to discuss it

15:50

mine has 32000 currently and blockchain has 21000

15:50

trinque: capable+inclined

15:50

then yes, I see your point

15:51

the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it

15:51

jborkl: maybe different antispam rules

15:53

ascii_field: haha, my former bosses for instance

15:53

possible, there are a ton of waiting txns either way and the spike has been recently

15:53

although I have just been watching from the sideline for a long time (not active)

15:54

ascii_field: it would make a great deal of sense to me if there were a connection between this kind of intelligence and personality traits which cause him to have a much lower default level of regard for any particular human off the street.

15:55

if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance

15:57

and if he doesn't, you get http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/norton.html

15:57

Norton I, Emperor of the UnitedStates ... ( http://bit.ly/1eGKHYw )

15:57

trinque: bad example. norton was popular.

15:57

a true social butterfly, even.

15:57

hah oh, my mistake

15:58

maybe someone that secretly collects human skin furniture then

15:58

do you collect dead ants ?

15:59

or kill ants for sport ?

15:59

*

trinque can see he will never earn the honorific "the Terrible"

16:00

true Not Giving A Fuck doesn't have a plus or minus sign. it's just a big fat zero.

16:00

ah

16:01

re: stupid breeding true < I thought 'reversion to the population mean' was the general outcome

16:01

aha

16:01

and stupidity is perfectly normal

16:02

I suppose tragically stupid parents are likely to have slightly smarter children

16:02

but not many worry about that case

16:02

not speaking here of extreme deformities

16:02

extra chromosomes, etc

16:02

right

16:02

just the factory-standard mind

16:02

but two iq 90 parents are likely to have children that score a little closer to 100

16:02

(for whites in the us)

16:03

who would be lost in the unwashed 1st std deviation anyway

16:03

lobbes

!up ascii_field

16:05

;;later tell mjr_ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#791843 << you can now

16:05

Logged on 12-08-2014 00:44:36; mjr_: by the way, anyone gonna tell me if i can play this game where i can buy things with bitcoin?

16:05

The operation succeeded.

16:08

re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset

16:08

in fact, someone who depises 'astronomical time' in favor of cesium time is also fully in favor of 'usg time'

16:08

decimation: and if it rains ?

16:09

wait till tomorrow

16:09

and if you are in submarine ?

16:09

can't wait

16:09

you're running a node.

16:09

in real time

16:09

actually it would be neat to build a nutrino detector

16:09

in your submarine

16:09

afaik there is no useful timing info in solar neutrono flows

16:09

*neutrino flow

16:10

you might be able to determine the angle of the sun w.r.t. the earth's surface

16:10

and, considering the famous formula ('50/50 interactions when passing through light-year of lead') portable detector is a questionable affair

16:10

sure but you got water everywhere

16:11

although biologics would probably jam your signal

16:11

aha

16:11

examine the construction of a neutrino observatory.

16:11

(typically, abandoned mine filled with salt water and thousands of photomultiplier tubes on the walls, each the size of a man's torso)

16:11

indeed.

16:13

anyway, since this thread came back to life, i will point out that mircea_popescu is right re: the notion of time being necessary for a bitcoin net. but it doesn't have to come from a clock as traditionally understood

16:14

it just has to be a reasonably-periodic signal that all nodes can see, whose period is not affected by the aggregate hash rate, nor can be manipulated at reasonable expense by gnomes

16:15

perhaps the pogo should come with a sunlight detector

16:15

natural phenomena don't fit the bill

16:15

not only because they are not reliably detectable (rain, clouds, being in a submarine)

16:16

but because can be faked in various 'good enough' ways

16:17

and, on the other end, require specialized hardware

16:18

if usg can spam uv over a large area for hours, then you probably have bigger problems than money

16:18

decimation: thinking more of hacks like rf detection of sunspot cycle

16:18

or schumann's resonance, etc

16:19

yeah. ultimately a thinking person can observe sunrise, sunset, set own clock (calendar might be another matter)

16:19

of course 'set clock' algorithm needs your lat/lon

16:20

lobbes

plus, then you are back to 'who sets the clocks' problem

16:20

aha

16:20

the sun does.

16:20

and what of when you cannot see the sunrise ?

16:20

then you ought to have made preparations

16:21

such as ?

16:21

if you have a submarine, you probably ought to have high quality timekeeping equipment

16:21

so we're back to clock, then

16:21

we already know how to meet and set clocks, last i checked

16:21

you could even use a sundial

16:22

on submarine.

16:22

submarine needs clock, yes.

16:22

let's try to define the basic puzzle here

16:23

two (at minimum) geographically separated people, with enemies in between, wish to agree re: how much time has passed since they last spoke, 2016 blocks ago.

16:23

they don't own clocks and can't see the sunrise and don't know where they are too?

16:23

let's suppose they traded pgp keys and can communicate securely. however, they cannot prevent the enemy from delaying messages

16:24

or sometimes 'losing' them entirely

16:24

sure.

16:24

say they own very poor clocks, which drift by a second - or more - per minute.

16:24

heh ok

16:24

(pogo...)

16:25

it's not quite that bad

16:25

but not great, granted

16:25

for the sake of argument.

16:25

aha

16:26

and now compound the problem by supposing that it is not you and your best friend, but you and a network consisting, to an unknown degree, of devils

16:27

devils who reluctantly serve up blocksl

16:27

devils who do whatever it takes to camouflage as men

16:27

while dishing out max damage

16:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92665 @ 0.00057468 = 53.2527 BTC [+] {4}

16:31

consider a node that passes on valid TXs, checks new blocks for proper work and passes them on. it ignores timestamps and lets miners say what current difficulty is. useless or not?

16:32

vulnerable to rewinds.

16:32

and to other induced forkage.

16:33

(will accept blocks that are not, by the traditional bitcoin rules, valid. and predicate acceptance of future blocks on these turds - which is what 'accept a block' means)

16:33

what is a rewind attack?

16:33

ben_vulpes: being fed an alternate past

16:33

typically from when mining was considerably 'easier'

16:33

but not necessarily

16:33

(can be recent past)

16:33

i'm sure you've gone into this in depth, but doesn't the length of the current main chain make that ludicrously expensive?

16:34

ben_vulpes: why would it ?

16:34

certain variants of the attack are prohibitively costly, yes

16:34

others - no

16:34

which variants are cheap?

16:34

!up ascii_field

16:35

aha the one where you simply hold difficulty constant and mine a long-ass chain.

16:35

aha

16:35

the chain with the most work demonstrated wins

16:35

or feeding a whole alternate universe to a virginal (has nothing but genesis) node

16:35

I donno, it strikes me that having a sundial and knowing how to use it (convert to universal time) is a pretty cheap counter

16:36

which yes, you can defend against with crude kludges like storing sums, but this is 'enumerated badness'

16:36

decimation: but then people would have to touch it !!111twelve1

16:36

decimation: now you have a human slave in the loop

16:36

straight to 'slavecoin'

16:36

don't even need a computer.

16:36

yeah, slave tells you time of day

16:36

and hashes with goose feather pen

16:36

as described in mircea_popescu's tale

16:37

well, if slave tells you time of day, the class of attacks you describe become much more difficult

16:37

except that the attacks now include having one's throat cut at night, aha

16:38

at any rate, we don't actually know how to do 'proof of work' thing using meat.

16:38

if we did, 'hawala' would have used it 2000 y ago.

16:38

yes, true.

16:39

in my mind, that's sorta the whole point of bitcoin.

16:39

16:39

Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1D1BLmt )

16:39

(on the use of "torture" in the nyt)

16:40

why does the fact that your throat can be cut invalidate proof of work?

16:40

it doesn't

16:40

separate problems.

16:40

I should say having one's throat cut invalidates a lot of things.

16:41

not for me

16:41

(your throat i mean)

16:41

the unfortunate thing is that the 'easy to verify, hard to produce' thing very much requires machines.

16:41

at any rate, I fully admit that bitcoin requires slaves to feed computers the right data and configure them

16:42

*

decimation wonders if skynet will need an 'economy' or will just directly solve the 'need things/have things' trade matrix

16:42

bagels7

i'll be your slave for a million dollars on a 5 year basis

16:42

decimation: do you know the story of how the concept of 'space station' came about?

16:43

not precisely no

16:43

well, afaik the 'precise' is not publicly known. but the ancient rumour that was taught to me was that it was a usg military propaganda trick

16:43

see, somebody's gotta change the vacuum tubes

16:43

in spy satellites.

16:43

except when they don't. then, suddenly, much less talk of space stations

16:44

yeah, that's true I think. the soviets believed it anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz

16:44

Almaz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlbOKo )

16:45

su actually built 'manned spy satellites' - became 'civilian peace stations' in the 80's

16:45

aha.

16:45

just as usg turned their orbital nuke dropper into 'space shuttle'

16:45

but I do see your point, if we can make the hardware 'reliable'

16:46

a pogo, as i envision it, has much in common with a comm satellite

16:47

Is there a history of the pogo somewhere?

16:47

shinohai: of the pogo as it comes from the vendor ?

16:47

or of our particular dealings with it

16:47

Of your particular dealings. How the idea of using it came about.

16:48

I was just curious.

16:48

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-07-2015#1184297

16:48

Logged on 02-07-2015 17:52:19; ascii_field: shinohai: it all started with http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-01-2015#988286

16:49

mircea_popescu posed the question of what is the cheapest mass-produced piece of equipment that could be pressed into service to run therealbitcoin.

16:49

the answer turned out to be pogo.

16:49

by a factor of 6 or so.

16:49

mainly because it is (or rather was) sold far below cost by the manufacturer

16:49

who was pushing a weirdo 'cloud subscription' thing with it

16:50

I am fascinated by how mircea_popescu envisioned that. I tried for well over a year to figure out how to busybox it.

16:50

And failed.

16:50

shinohai: he didn't

16:50

just asked the question.

16:50

i answered it, experimentally

16:51

ported netbsd to the thing, too

16:51

which turned out to be a waste of time

16:51

(certain necessaries did not work correctly)

16:53

I was hoping my pogo would arrive today, but postman has already come. :/

16:56

shinohai: most of what i've done re: therealbitcoin so far revolves around getting memory footprint under control

16:56

shinohai: pogo has 128M of ram, soldered on.

16:57

And it is fantastic work, imho. My shell provider doesn't bitch at me about bandwidth anymore either.

16:57

um

16:57

Wait, people are successful at running bitcoin on summin with 128m of ram?

16:57

Wao

16:57

everything i did only ~increases~ bandwidth consumption

16:57

williamdunne: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html

16:57

... ( http://bit.ly/1Rld7c9 )

16:57

williamdunne: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150701/rss_d1746f76523316edcdc82326213f8953bf6f0d09.png

16:57

... ( http://bit.ly/1RldaVB )

16:58

For some reason mine has dropped, but probably because I'm not connecting to a bzillion nodes

16:58

(this was a node, i must remind the reader, with no mempool, on account of having no net connection and being fed blocks 'intravenously' if you will)

16:58

vertical axis is in kB

16:59

the thing here, as discussed in the past, is that 300 bytes (block header and overhead) are kept in ram at all times per ~known block~

17:00

now if the node is 'live' and has net connection, hears tx, suffers possible fragging (see old threads) - then even more consumption.

17:00

but what you see in that graph is the only 'leak' in the usual sense

17:00

as in, the one thing that is guaranteed to grow monotonically

17:04

https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000cf530b3346a39156f56eb9259e5d7fd97a6e9168ffaf91e << l0l

17:04

Bitcoin Block #364463 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RldQKx )

17:05

test

17:05

!up ascii_field

17:06

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3clbk6/bitcoin_xt_status_update/cswlmk4 << l0l

17:06

HostFat comments on Bitcoin XT Status Update ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rle4kR )

17:06

'As you may have noticed, Bitcoin unfortunately has run out of capacity due to someone DoS attacking the network.'

17:06

'run out'

17:06

'someone'

17:06

'bigger blocks'

17:07

(hearn, of course)

17:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14762 @ 0.00056898 = 8.3993 BTC [-]

17:08

"I suspect it can be mitigated through heavier reliance on coin age priority, as coin age is not something that can be trivially bought on the spot, unlike fee priority."

17:08

same idiot argument re: spam as Luke-Jr

17:09

IF IT HAS A FEE ATTACHED AND IS A VALID TXN, IT'S NOT SPAM

17:09

^

17:11

though gotta wonder if this is still fair to say re: a gigantic sack of shit with the words 'this is spam, and fuck you' printed right on it

17:11

(the tx sent to brainwallet('password') etc)

17:12

sure, one can imagine some sane criteria on determining spamitude

17:12

but aside from that, bidding up space in blocks by blowing one's own coin is a perfectly legit thing to do

17:12

as per the protocol rules

17:12

it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this

17:12

if usg wants to spend its coin this way, it can

17:13

its an ideological matter to hear Luke-Jr tell it

17:13

as i pointed out before, it is being done for two disjoint reasons. one is so that hearn can write the turd linked above, re: 'it is crowded and we need blocks of $maxint size'

17:13

the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball

17:13

'i dun wanna hold gigs of "spam" on my drive, and nobody else does either'

17:13

by promising 'tx fee ordering' as a feature

17:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193852 << the fucking market is there. nobody broke it. but to redditards, 'market won't supply me with free shit' == 'market has failed'

17:15

Logged on 08-07-2015 21:12:24; trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this

17:15

right, I said this yesterday

17:16

stress test seems to prove the system works from where I sit

17:16

trinque: not if you ask the tards

17:16

for them, 'it broke'

17:16

because they can't send their 0.01 btc without fee

17:17

'don't be poor'

17:17

one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them

↖ ↖

17:17

when they cannot pay

17:18

my tunnel collapsed

17:18

sorry for the flood

17:19

ascii_field: reminds me of mircea_popescu's recent comments to the effect of roughly "We've done it! I exist!"

17:19

cannot think of a more vulgar mentality

17:19

l0l wut

17:19

the redditard mentality

17:19

that the fact of their pulse is by itself something special and important

17:20

we're all equals, man

17:20

we must has equal outcomes or else fascism

17:24

https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000dd2101c3f08f3e4ad16f90c37a2780f5012358c18371642

17:24

Bitcoin Block #364467 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlfOdZ )

17:25

ascii_field: so what's the problem here?

17:25

we get fee market. fuck the people who can't pay for their nice things

17:25

get a fucking job already

17:26

!up ascii_field

17:26

stop complaining about "waah my transactions is unconfirmed waaaah"

17:26

*

BingoBoingo just switched own nodes to 0.001 min fee for transaction relay

17:26

thestringpuller: ask'em

17:26

*

shinohai likes how BingoBoingo thinks.

17:26

thestringpuller: i'm not even certain that the 'ocean of complaint' consists of real people

17:27

rather than philippino meat puppets for-hire

17:27

Impact of my relay policy change on the network will be near nil, but policy is policy

17:28

meanwhile litecoin users enjoying "stress test" popcorn

17:28

i've never understood the philippino references i see here

17:28

funkenstein_: it's in the log

17:28

!s philippino

17:28

1 results for 'philippino' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=philippino

17:28

!s philippino meat puppets for-hire

17:28

0 results for 'philippino meat puppets for-hire' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=philippino+meat+puppets+for-hire

17:28

!s phillipino

17:28

2 results for 'phillipino' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=phillipino

17:28

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-02-2015#1003223

17:28

Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.

17:28

^

17:28

fluffypony

itt: nobody can spell phillllippppinnnnooooo

17:29

i copy-pasta'd xD

17:29

see whole thread

17:29

particularly, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2015#1003221

17:29

Logged on 02-02-2015 23:03:08; mircea_popescu: "I've noticed certain repeating characteristic in the writing of many members of this forum: they construct grammatically correct sentences but absolutely disregard the underlying semantics: incoming vs. outgoing, local vs. remote, source vs. destination, etc. Here in regards to TCP/IP ports, but I observed that in regards to pretty much any technical issue."

17:40

WTF

17:40

It starts with an F? What's this shit

17:40

filipino

17:43

who gives a shit about arbitrary distinctions such as that?

17:43

only asciilifeform's test takers

17:43

and players of dwarf fortress

17:46

bad spellers of the world: untie!

17:46

Sorta like how dyslexic is probably pretty hard to spell if you're dyslexic

17:48

brings to mind http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/european-commission.html

17:48

Jokes - European Commission ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlhwMq )

17:51

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-08/greece-illustrates-150-years-socialist-failure-europe

17:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1RlhKmF )

17:59

*

BingoBoingo is guessing that at some point Rubidium standards are going to become #b-a coture

~ 31 minutes ~

18:31

Apparently Microshit is copying MP nao http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/contributors.html

18:31

Donate to the OpenBSD Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hi3NLe )

~ 17 minutes ~

18:48

BingoBoingo: actually high quality ovenized quartz can be nearly as good as rubidium

18:49

Suffers labeling issues though. Hard to tell buy ordering if you get actual part or Chicom turd

18:49

not if you are willing to pay $$$

18:51

here's a reasonable text on celestial navigation http://www2.arnes.si/~gljsentvid10/page2.htm

18:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1KPIZ4W )

18:51

there is a description on how to derive time by measuring the moon's motion relative to other objects in the sky

18:54

actually better link to the book here http://www.celnav.de/page2.htm

18:54

... ( http://bit.ly/1Hi8RPQ )

18:58

BingoBoingo: the fixation on physical clocks, astronomical magic, etc. is unproductive re: the original problem posed.

18:58

(though by no means useless in general)

18:58

asciilifeform: Nah, for different, later problems

18:58

we, afaik, do not have those problems yet. must still graduate to them.

18:59

At somepoint though we will have the problem on when to start decelerating the starship lest we crashland into Alpha Centurai

19:00

right now we have the very different problem of how not to drown in own shit.

19:00

And the way to not drown might just be space ship

19:01

Or Space shit

19:01

BingoBoingo: if you have a tip re: how to make perfectly synchronized with one another rubidium clocks materialize in the existing $20 pogos, i'm all ears..

19:01

No idea about that.

19:02

BingoBoingo: might wanna read that thread, it's pretty lulzy

19:02

it's where i describe how bitcoin is not actually decentralized at all, but depends on a thoroughly usgificated network of political clocks

19:03

^ clocks that could be, but probably are not, checked for accuracy

19:03

I read the thread. closest I have to solutions are either Noping ft. meade off the earth into the sun or Noping out and taking stator to ALpha Centurai

19:10

But I dunno. Maybe at some point radio hashes happens.

19:11

Disguise the signal as over the horizon radar

19:11

And at that point why not have competing political time broadcast on that signal, signed

19:15

asciilifeform it doesn't acvtually depend on it.

19:15

owner of node may choose to depend on it

19:15

otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.

19:19

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.

19:19

Logged on 08-07-2015 18:06:08; ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.

19:22

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193580 << no.

19:22

Logged on 08-07-2015 18:32:24; williamdunne: What happened to that German socialist girl, she ever come back to continue her derping?

19:22

also describing it as 'political time' when the policy is 'matches easily observable astronomical phenomena' seems a bit hyperbolic

19:22

and ftr she looked like a guy to me.

19:22

decimation time is not a natural phenomenon.

19:22

^ found that googling as well

19:23

spacetime doesn't exist?

19:23

women in technology == technologically produced womyn

19:23

but that aside, this is conventional time.

19:23

spacetime is an artefact of the observation being carried out.

19:23

and also, it is not ~time~. it is space-time.

19:23

as opposed to what? being derived from platonic ideals?

19:24

as opposed to mass.

19:26

<decimation> spacetime doesn't exist? << It isn't space or time, merely the manifold until it is intuited by the apperception

19:26

same could be said of quarks

19:28

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193590 << he is basically saying http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-06-2015#1170141 and in that he is right. for the exact reason in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169850

19:28

Logged on 08-07-2015 19:02:31; ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)

19:28

Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.

19:28

Logged on 20-06-2015 19:29:12; mircea_popescu: the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms

19:28

specifically, that if you wait for the "optimal" you're waiting forever.

19:29

decimation in any case, the time bitcoin uses is a political construct.

19:29

a matter of conventional agreementr, currently overseen by exactly usg.

19:29

unless you wish to experimentally prove that ~you~ can insert leap seconds into places.

19:30

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193597 exactly http://trilema.com/2009/hai-sa-facem-o-socoteala/ :D

19:30

Logged on 08-07-2015 19:17:10; ascii_field: '12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife, three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schw

19:30

Hai sa facem o socoteala. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcsbyU )

19:32

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.

19:32

Logged on 08-07-2015 19:38:22; ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely

19:33

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193627 << this is not unlike inquiring "what makes the sterile woman the waste of chocolate that she is". she only becomes that if you put her in a matronly role. otherwise, i wouldn't want a fertile catwoman.

19:33

Logged on 08-07-2015 19:46:07; ascii_field: what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?

19:33

so the problem there is of management not of nature. chinese exam taker is a great asset in any sanely balanced system.

19:33

and generally, the quality of a system is to be measured by how many people it can make life meaningful for, not how many people it has to kill to survive.

19:36

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193636 << consider many of the things we regularly discuss here. most people are neither willing to consider not even willing to look upon the outrage that goes on daily, hourly. be it icons of say badly beaten up women, or whatever else. plenty of people keep lists of words they won't ever say. this disinclination ~to consider~, however the subject justifies it, is the c

19:36

Logged on 08-07-2015 19:51:46; ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it

19:36

ertainest macula of intellectual ineptitude.

19:37

fact is, if you're not willing to consider the things you aren't going to do, your not doing them is not any sort merit, and it certainly won't ever work in your favour.

19:37

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193642 << is this an actual perspective, or is it a knot of nonsense ?

19:37

Logged on 08-07-2015 19:55:54; trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance

19:39

http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.

19:39

The Polymath Archives: The Inappropriately Excluded ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hct624 )

19:39

that's more or less what I got from asciilifeform, that he was describing a person which, to put it in idiot's terms "does what makes sense to him"

19:39

could not find much clinical "psychopathy" in that

19:39

which leads me to suspect the term itself is stupid

19:40

not sure i follow.

19:42

I (perhaps incorrectly) take "psychopath" to be a political term, akin to "sociopath"

19:42

the former something like "does what he wants to, even if people cry" and the latter maybe "lies to his enemies, effectively"

19:43

hm

19:43

go on ?

19:44

mostly just that; I hear these terms most often used by someone who thinks someone else has been unfair, and ought to be restrained by the state

19:44

was otherwise fishing for asciilifeform's definition of the term.

19:46

mircea_popescu: does romanian have a word for sociopath?

19:46

sociopat

19:46

just like in english, it doesn't actually mean anything, unlike english it is not used by the hipstery youth.

19:47

there's an academic word for it in greek, nobody ever uses it though

19:47

there is aschilopat, which is a purely nonsense word that is use to convey roughly the same notion, "invisible gross diformity worthy of pity" but it's blue collar slang mostly.

19:48

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia << this one's pretty good

19:48

Sluggish schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPONLJ )

19:48

!s borderline

19:48

30 results for 'borderline' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=borderline

19:49

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/10/the_diagnosis_of_borderline_pe.html << found it

19:49

The Last Psychiatrist: The Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder: What Does It Really Mean? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPORuX )

19:50

*

mircea_popescu drops http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/ since we're on it

19:50

The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPOXmf )

19:51

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193670 << the mother of all occultations yes

19:51

Logged on 08-07-2015 20:08:22; decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset

19:54

"This is what sociopathy is : what the scum of the earth currently calls its betters." << right, soon to give way to "fagtalkers"

19:54

though one hopes it doesn't take long enough for that

19:55

I keep wanting to call that "inversion"

19:56

where something unnatural persists for so long it becomes the basis of comparison

19:56

eh unnatural is problematic

19:56

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193749 << this is an important point that i don't think asciilifeform fully digested. replay attacks that rely on block count do not work. actuall superior WORK has to be shown.

19:56

Logged on 08-07-2015 20:35:49; funkenstein_: the chain with the most work demonstrated wins

19:56

https://i.imgur.com/tTqFfvF.jpg

19:56

... ( http://bit.ly/1KPPp3Y )

19:56

mircea_popescu: I liked the toilet analogy

19:56

trinque magic thinking is this all through

19:56

mhm

19:56

punkman how far off do you think tyhat piece is, as a local ?

19:57

!up solrodar

19:58

hello

19:58

mircea_popescu: close enough

19:58

*

mircea_popescu is impressed with himself.

19:58

hello solrodar. who're you ?

19:59

maybe a good time for a translation of the older ones? gtranslate not doing them justice

19:59

mircea_popescu: one of your blog readers

19:59

I've made an attempt at the call graph you requested

19:59

o hey.

19:59

http://imgh.us/bitcoin-dot.svg

19:59

Call graph ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hcvoyr )

19:59

asciilifeform ^

19:59

solrodar do you know what gpg is ?

20:00

yes, but not used it

20:00

!h

20:00

http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

20:00

solrodar consider register a signature with the bot.

20:00

registering*

20:00

ok

20:01

also consider leaving a comment with the link and a functional email address on the trilema post.

20:01

(trying to make sure you can actually claim your prize - as it is anyone can in principle use a freenode nick)

20:12

;;bc,stats

20:12

~ 20 minutes ~

20:33

!up solrodar

20:40

!rate assbot 1 testing

20:40

You must be rated before you can rate.

20:40

heh

20:43

!rate solrodar 1 doolb wen

20:43

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f2cf461b4bf2e335

20:44

!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.solrodar.1:898d1835333b88e8a1aeafa9acb92bbad9b839fc1cf4135f8a2ea7ea45bf4c5f

20:44

Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: doolb wen

20:45

solrodar: Now !up yourself

20:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00057586 = 6.3345 BTC [+]

20:48

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1194040 << sorry, totally useless

20:48

Logged on 08-07-2015 23:59:32; solrodar: http://imgh.us/bitcoin-dot.svg

20:48

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-07-2015#1192228 << see thread

20:48

Logged on 07-07-2015 21:11:38; ascii_field: my patience for 'help the mouse find the cheese' ran out when i was four

20:49

it's not great I know

20:49

but if that's the actual structure of the code then what else can you do?

20:50

I need a projector to see it

20:50

solrodar: gonna tell me that the structure requires putting, e.g., CWalletDB::ReadBestBlock a mile away from AppInit2, even though the former connects to ~nothing else~ ???!!

20:51

and see example of CreateNewBlock

20:51

if you had ~only~ this chart,

20:51

could you say what it calls ?

20:51

i'd be lying if i said yes

20:52

not trying to be a spoilsport, but pointing out fact

20:52

yeah some things are oddly positioned

20:52

it's gonna take manual arrangement

20:53

no way around it

20:53

trinque: i really don't understand why

20:53

the most obvious problems have nothing to do with shortest paths

20:53

and/or some really nice force directed graph thing

20:53

of which I've found nothing but shit

20:53

another problem is abominably small print

20:53

at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.

20:54

I don't think any amount of manual arrangement would shrink the overall size that much

20:55

solrodar: tell you what. i'm not the one who put up the bounty (that was mircea_popescu) but i was the one who asked for the chart. if you can produce a dependency graph in s-expression format, embodying the info in this graph, ~and~ show me how to get same using open source utils, i will say the job is done

20:55

there are so many edges that you need to leave space between the nodes to keep them from overlapping too much

20:55

(the job won't be done, but it will become possible for me to do it)

20:56

you know, there is no reason why all the letters have to be parallel with the bottom of the page

20:56

plenty of room if you remove that limit

20:58

I don't follow you

20:58

what's parallel with what?

20:59

the captions

20:59

are all horizontal

20:59

they don't have to be

21:00

I don't see how changing that would give you more space

21:01

!b 9

21:01

Last 9 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2SZRD5W.txt )

21:01

ferfuxxake

21:01

i could draw the picture and explain. but then i will have drawn the picture

21:01

!b 2

21:01

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0B3S7RR.txt )

21:02

I mean it's the positioning of the boxes which is the problem

21:03

The problem is the thing being modeled, hence the bounty

21:04

!up solrodar

21:04

you can get dot to lay the graph out from top to bottom rather than left to right, but it won't be any better

21:04

wasn't the idea

21:05

idea is, to make the text sit down at whatever angle is needed

21:05

31 degrees if need be

21:05

or 5

21:05

to maximize space for the arrows.

21:06

and other thing, if a node is a leaf of only one stem, it should be right next to it

21:06

and not half the page away.

21:06

there is room for this to be the case everywhere.

21:07

yeah, I don't know why it doesn't always do that

21:07

it's clearly doing it in some places

21:07

because the tool is retarded

21:07

i can use that tool too, you know.

21:07

i don't need the garbage that comes out of codeviz or those other 3

21:07

i need a usable graph

21:08

this is probably more than 1 btc worth of work

21:08

and so i'm not holding my breath waiting for it to get done by anybody.

21:08

looks that way

21:09

so if I provide the graph in s-expression format with instructions, do you have any specific plan for visualizing it?

21:10

or you just want the data to experiment?

21:10

data.

21:10

but not only it, but a complete recipe whereby i can regenerate it.

21:10

of course

21:11

solrodar: might wanna ask mircea_popescu if he will award the prize for this item, which is not what he asked for, before putting in serious effort

21:12

at this stage the only extra effort is to output it in sexpr format rather than dot format

21:13

I'm already pulling the graph into a script to do some filtering

21:13

neat.

21:13

*

BingoBoingo wonders how his 0.7.2 qt build ever worked on OpenBSD

21:13

thank you for the effort, solrodar

21:13

because if you include all the low-level functions and bignum classes and so forth in the graph then it'll be 10 times worse

21:13

eheheheeh wat

21:13

these are missing?!!!

21:14

then entirely useless

21:14

i want every token

21:14

in *.cpp and *.h

21:14

in that tree.

21:14

you can have every token

21:14

gotta have those.

21:14

including std:: and boost::

21:14

how did you even choose what to exclude ?

21:14

just remove the filters

21:14

where did the filter come from ?

21:14

started with the standard library

21:15

then cut out nodes with very high in-degree which appeared to be low-level functions

21:15

btw aren't all those stacked "using namespace std;" "using namespace boost;" statements a bad idea?

21:15

would like a way of adjusting this

21:16

yeah, it's just a list of regexes, you can change them as you like

21:16

ok

21:17

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does.

21:17

Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:17; mircea_popescu: owner of node may choose to depend on it

21:17

solrodar: If your recipe works a narrative of it could be welcome qntra material

21:17

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what

21:17

Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:23; mircea_popescu: otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.

21:17

the one thing which is missing which you asked for is virtual function calls, which are only used in the keystore base class

21:18

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193951 << it's why they produce incompatible ones regularly. because no way to know if it happened or not yet, save for passage of time

21:18

Logged on 08-07-2015 23:19:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.

21:18

they don't appear to be in the clang output

21:19

solrodar: your tool doesn't see virtual functions ?

21:20

it sees their implementations but it doesn't see calls to them via the virtual lookup mechanism

21:20

solrodar: and how do you know that they are only used in keystore base class ?

21:21

grep virtual *.h :)

21:21

fair enough.

21:22

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people'

21:22

Logged on 08-07-2015 23:32:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.

21:22

scoopbot_revived

S.MPOE: Trader's Delight. http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/08/s-mpoe-traders-delight/

21:22

<asciilifeform> ... << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what << How often? A minute over a century and ignoring should be fine

21:23

BingoBoingo: and if they decide that 'national s33k0000r1ty' requires a leap week ?

21:23

to thwart 'financial terrorizm!!!1111'

21:23

(aka bitcoin use)

21:23

asciilifeform: The time nerds burn the... Well QuickTrip and CVS were done so I guess WalMart

21:24

!rate ben_vulpes 1 welcomed me to #b-a

21:24

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c4aa8cc715c6d75

21:24

!rate solrodar 1 flow graphs

21:24

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ebf2651b9eb17fd5

21:25

!v assbot:solrodar.rate.ben_vulpes.1:be7ce5a08c6698de2492a0c464338aa0a12c9c6070b6d7a9a6feffbe27ef763a

21:25

Successfully added a rating of 1 for ben_vulpes with note: welcomed me to #b-a

21:25

!v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.solrodar.1:0a8d0ab5914fc2d41371f84fe250e40f9eab92aab2afdf54f7774066895e50c5

21:25

Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: flow graphs

21:25

Leapweek would purely put USG time in the realm of clearly fiat time

21:25

BingoBoingo: it was always fiat time

21:26

just as argentine peso was fiat when it was still worth real money

21:26

we haven't invented non-fiat time yet

21:26

Yes, even with the Romans fiat time. But poerverted like now dollar fiat time. At present still enjoy 1934 dollar fiat time

21:27

(yes, decimation will teach you to tell epoch time within +/1 1000 by using the stars and moon. that does not change the essence of the fact that global epoch synchronized by machines is a fiat - specifically usg - creature)

21:27

asciilifeform: how is 'mean solar day is split into two parts; divided into 24 peices' fiat time?

21:27

you were the one arguing to ditch leap seconds

21:27

it is fiat if i can't see the sun and rely on the kind to tell me

21:27

*king

21:27

okay.

21:27

As far as I can tell time does not exist other than as a projection perpetrated by the brain

21:27

this is a subtle point, granted

21:27

and i don't expect everyone to grasp it immediately

21:28

time is absolute, space squishes and streches to nail to its strictures

21:28

asciilifeform: what does 'time outside of humanity' even mean?

21:28

decimation: Astronomical time is probelematic in that we do not know if LizardHitler mothership can subtly tow sun a few miles or give the moon a push

21:29

sure, he could do that

21:29

decimation: 'outside of humanity' is a tall order. and not what anybody was asking for

21:29

just needs to be 'outside' to the same extent bitcoin is (or naively appears to be)

21:29

that is, massively resistant to organized diddling

21:29

what's the use of 'bitcoin outside of humanity'

21:30

!s martian bank

21:30

6 results for 'martian bank' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=martian+bank

21:30

even martians could live with a 24-hour earth day

21:30

'dude just tell us how to set our clocks'

21:31

because they can all see the sun

21:31

and feel its warmth

21:31

but say they lived underground, and could not.

21:32

the sun is almost literally blinding decimation, making the problem look far easier than it actually is for us

21:32

pogo cannot see the sun!

21:32

aye, that's a problem

21:32

but quite separate than 'we depend on time'

21:32

it cannot see the moon, or the stars

21:32

I guess I just can't see 'we need to sun' to be a huge limitation on any human endeavour

21:32

in so far as you, i, and every other fella on the net wants to know 'what second' it is 'right now', we are dealing in usgtronics

21:33

because there is no other known way to do it

21:33

within any kind of serious accuracy

21:33

yes, but that's conditional

21:33

and we don't need serious accuracy

21:33

+/- 5 min would be fine

21:33

or even more

21:33

actually we do

21:33

because drift

21:33

easily achieved with stopwatch and gnomon

21:33

long enough at +/- 5m and we get >2h off

21:33

and it's game over.

21:33

yeah but these aren't launching into space

21:34

they sorta are.

21:34

can emerge, get reset

21:34

not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates

21:34

well, if that were a hard spec I would agree, need txco or ocxo

21:34

and there's no way around it, if actual human cannot set

21:34

From the looks of things, S.MPOE used to have a thousand BTC or so volume per day

21:34

Pretty solid

21:34

or we cannot build a trusted network of time sources

21:35

my argument was that this apparently-unsolvable problem can be solved

21:35

if a certain constraint is loosenes

21:35

you mean modifying the bitcoind to accept wider windows of blocks?

21:35

<decimation> easily achieved with stopwatch and gnomon << This leads you to my world, where my mechinical autowinding watch is always perfectly accurate because I declare it so

21:35

to have the concept of difficulty, nodes only need to know that time has passed, using a timebase that 1) is independent variable from aggregate hash 2) is prohibitively expensive to manipulate

21:36

BingoBoingo: can you use your winding to predict the sunrise

21:36

i possibly have a scheme for this. but it won't help pogo, because this is no longer bitcoin

21:36

right now i don't know how to help the pogo problem.

21:36

recently S.MPOE has stood still

21:36

asciilifeform: you do, it involves hardware

21:36

mircea_popescu et al were contemplating a surrender to ntp even.

21:36

its a real bummer

21:36

unless you just want to give into ntp

21:36

decimation: Realtive to UTC, yes. I live about a minute in a half to UTC's future

21:37

decimation: adding any hardware at all will raise the cost to where we no longer have anything over the phoundation.

21:37

and their standard x86 turd boards.

21:37

well, if that's a hard spec, and 'launch into space' is a hard spec, the project is a failure

21:38

unless you are willing to accept the risk of a global ntp/router delay attack

21:39

to the extent ntp is depended upon by other implementations, it seems ntp servers may need to be polled. If they need to be polled the prolly ought to be polled at arc4random() intervals selecting arc4random() out of the pool each go

21:39

BingoBoingo: my concern was blackholing

21:39

BingoBoingo: ascii's argument is that method is defeated if enemy controlls isp

21:39

Serious concern

21:39

where every single ntp query gets picked up by your isp and replaced.

21:40

this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done

21:40

it's a cheap bullet with our name on it

21:41

T_T

21:41

I dispuse the 'nothing but pogo would fail'

21:41

plenty of shit is poorly engineered into depending on that kind of stuff

21:41

say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past

21:41

Only way to truly defeat ISP is mock over the horizon radar which can force PCB to recieve all data as an involuntary antenna.

21:42

<asciilifeform> say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past << Burn a Walmart

21:42

eventually pogo drifts off into neverneverland

21:42

BingoBoingo: you won't know that you have segmented into a parallel universe

21:42

not like pogo has a screen, where it tells you that it is (or is not) receiving valid blocks

21:42

for that matter, 'you' may be one of mircea_popescu's pogopregnated chixxx

21:42

and have no idea what a block is.

21:43

or what that box he plugged into your wall is for

21:43

Perhaps L1 and L2 pogo impregnators should herd the impregnated pogos

21:43

all ~100 of us ?

21:43

lol

21:43

no just pogo but all ntp clients

21:45

and such an error, if it ends up driving the clock off by several minutes, would be detectable in a variety of ways

21:45

how?

21:45

NBC

21:45

detecting an off clock requires another

21:45

well, predicting sunrise for one

21:45

ABC, FOX, et al

21:45

again with the sun and stars

21:45

some other isp client finds his computer is 'off'

21:45

again with the human eyes and hands.

21:46

i specified a problem. what is the point of saying 'no, let's solve this other trivial problem'

21:46

your scenario would imply that no human looks at the time served by said isp

21:46

i already know how to do that.

21:47

I'm emphasizing the sun because that's the policy by which time is defined

21:48

usg didn't make this policy any more than england did

21:48

sure

21:48

and usg fucking with the way computers distribute time would ultimately be noticed by some innocent bystander

21:48

but we don't have a mechanism of syncing n-bit counters with second resolution across a planet that ~doesn't~ operate at hitler's pleasure.

21:49

don't need second resolution

21:49

decimation: one very obvious way for it to fuck, and be noticed, is to simply fail

21:49

as in, terminate all ntp services?

21:49

aha

21:50

from lack of money to pay the electric bill, say.

21:50

I would also note that if the pogo clock varies in a systematic way (constant frequency error)

21:50

it could be corrected

21:50

as far as i can tell, it does not.

21:50

and the reason is no mystery

21:51

(interrupts vary quite unpredictably)

21:51

yeah, makes sens

21:51

so if the pogo syncs to a random node once per month and keeps time within a few minutes, it'll be fine

21:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31452 @ 0.00057008 = 17.9302 BTC [-] {2}

21:52

is it vulnerable? yes. more vulnerable than proof-of-work? yes, if in the hands of an idiot

21:52

random node ?

21:52

which also gets to drift ?

21:52

ntp node

21:52

most ntp nodes are tracable to some source (yes often usg) to two layers

21:52

but that usg clock is depended on by and awful lot of shit

21:53

if usg starts messing with gps it would be quickly noticed and shouted at

21:53

decimation: there is no reason why ~all~ ntp servers proper would have to be diddled

21:53

just the queries from known bitcoin nodes

21:53

incl pogo

21:53

not like it's a secret who they are.

21:54

agreed, but to selectively fuck with known bitcoin nodes would imply the deployment of an awful lot of hardware and expertise globally

21:54

tomorrow hitler says 'anybody talking on 8333 gets timewarped'

21:54

won't affect anything else.

21:54

hitler spends $100 mil to do it?

21:54

it's deployed!

21:54

already!

21:54

srsly

21:54

what do you suppose 'narus' makes ?

21:54

you think you could call up your local comcastic office, pretend to be hitler, and demand that a particular protocol be selectively fucked with?

21:55

you - no

21:55

the folks with the key to room 641a - yes

21:55

that's one chokepoint

21:55

they don't work for crapcast either

21:55

they come and go when they want.

21:55

no reason your ntp query need cross it

21:55

it is merely an example

21:55

of how it is done

21:55

yes, and I"m sure it's not cheap

21:55

nor easily mass deployed

21:55

there is a 'room 641a' at every single major infrastructural junction

21:55

certainly in nato-reich

21:55

not every isp office

21:55

and similar in ru, cn

21:56

every backbone.

21:56

so, don't cross backbones

21:56

or, cross several

21:56

and the argument that some backwards isp, somewhere, may not be 'up to date', does not sway me.

21:57

I guess Bitcoin builds an Argentina, Phillipines, somolia, ISIS backbone and moves geographically

21:57

but your 'fucked with at the isp level' argument falls apart in that case

21:57

at what level the fucking will be done, is debatable

21:57

but that it is doable, and trivial, and can be carried out in such a way as to affect only known bitcoin nodes, seems obvious to me

21:58

I would agree that if the pogo needs to be launched into space, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it knew where it was on the internet topology, especially relative to other bitcoin nodes

21:58

asciilifeform: it's possible but again it requires expertise and equipment

21:58

comcast can barely keeps the lights running

21:58

comcast - sure

21:58

upstream - no

21:59

and this kind of dull, mechanistic diddlage is precisely what usg specializes in

21:59

no imagination needed

21:59

just mutilate packets if regexp matches.

21:59

what usg agency would perform this work domestically?

22:00

at&t.

22:00

they ain't gonna do it for free

22:01

and 'fucking with bitcoin' is probably pretty low on usg's hitlist (not that it should be so low)

22:01

how the hell would i (or anyone else) know where it is on what list ?

22:01

mircea_popescu's intel dept. - possibly

22:01

me? no

22:01

but i don't get to say 'it's low on the list, let's all sleep'

22:01

I doubt that after today. After the Chicom stockmarket sell embargo and NYSE glitch

22:02

neither do I. but assuming the pogo isn't a complete bust, someone's gonna have to evaluate the risk

22:02

my point is that this kind of attack is not only the kind of thing usg specializes in, but pretty much the only thing they know how to do at all

22:02

how would you know that, if you don't know the hitlist

22:03

can't know. only conjecture.

22:03

based on existing nonsense coming out of the we-don't-know-how-to-break-rsa-yet-agency

22:03

no idea what the ~other~ nsa does

22:04

that gun hasn't publicly fired yet.

22:08

!up Vexual

22:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00056898 = 6.2588 BTC [-]

22:09

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193991 << was linked as 'entomological sample' ! specifically, example of folks 'spinning their wheels'

22:09

Logged on 08-07-2015 23:39:06; mircea_popescu: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.

22:10

i bet if some helpful fella gave them a few kg of plastique each, they would put it to good use...

22:10

just as mr stack probably would have

22:10

and what, precisely, ought one expect of folks raised in a zoo?

22:11

how do lions in the zoo get things, other than being 'given' ?

22:13

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188651 < a map that demonstrates your point: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/07/mapping-the-us-by-property-value-instead-of-land-area/397841/

22:13

Logged on 05-07-2015 21:44:22; mircea_popescu: that's really the tension here : usians currently use the us like inept argentines: they huddle around the coast and pull their cocks.

22:13

A Map of the U.S. by Property Value Instead of Land Area - CityLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1TmJRPW )

22:13

the coasts are where usg hands out payola.

22:13

"The total value of all the residential property in Kentucky ($300 billion) falls just short of the value of all the housing property in Queens ($317 billion). The housing value of the Upper East Side all by itself is greater than that of six states."

22:13

hence folks live there.

22:13

aye

22:14

it hands it out there for historical reasons (it is where the majority of the chump candidates live, given as that is where the anthill mega-cities are found)

22:14

on account of having been built there back when actual honest commerce was a thing

22:15

but point of fact is, to ~me~ kentucky may as well be pluto

22:15

and to everyone i know.

22:15

decimation: Too be fair Kentucky isn't "flat" enough for intentive Monsanto'ing

22:16

asciilifeform: it's actually a pretty nice place

22:16

aha

22:16

pluto is nice too, i hear

22:16

in its own way

22:16

nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country'

22:16

Kentucky is beautiful. Like Southern Illinois, but entirely politically divorced from Chicago aside from Obola

22:16

because it is.

22:17

because wtf can you live on there.

22:17

<decimation> nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country' << I prefer this arrangement

22:17

that's what 'foreign country' even ~means~, historically

22:17

that one is not wanted there.

22:18

kentucky, or argentina, etc, literally don't need me in particular for anything but 'weight in pork'

22:18

if that.

22:19

doesn't mean that i dislike those places, or their inhabitants

22:19

ar, in particular, i liked very much.

22:19

and the inhabitants.

22:21

yeah, I get it, the meatwot is important

22:21

also being within 'reasonable transport' distance of good food, places of learning, etc

22:21

I predict that if the 'hyperloop' actually works (dubious) it would rot the suburbs around megacities

22:22

a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes

22:22

if not farther

22:24

!up The20YearIRCloud

22:24

It's alive!

22:25

What's alive?

22:25

Boy I had a crappy day, one of the renters called me and nothing would drain. Only to find out they've been parking a car on the main drain line. I offered to go out rather than my crew to take care of it, 3hrs later and $400 we've determined that it's all due to someone parking on the drain line and actually pushing it out of the fittings.

22:25

The chat!

22:26

wai wat

22:26

these drains are made of rubber ?!

22:26

u charged 400?

22:26

The20YearIRCloud: how is it even physically possible ?

22:27

i, for instance, park on top of my house's drain pipe every single day.

22:27

yeah, like did they forget to use pvc cement?

22:27

loose soil, 3000lbs car sitting on it ~10hrs/day

22:27

i know where it is, because the city excavated it last year.

22:27

it is two metres under the asphalt.

22:27

ah

22:27

there was a 8ft PVC section between two clay drain sections

22:28

This was 4ft under soil

22:28

clay drain? Like terra cotta?

22:28

yep

22:28

110 year old drain

22:28

where was this? africa ?

22:28

lul

22:28

still works somewhat well, but parking on it certainly hasn't helped things

22:28

Part of that $400 was to have a guy come out with a camera and inspect the line

22:29

plus cakes for you while u lurk?

22:29

the 'loose soil' must be underneath the pipe

22:29

I would guess the drain is eroding the surrounding soil

22:30

Quite possibly, there's a concrete walkway that's actually sunk down about 6"

22:30

lul

22:30

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194417 << remember how the spiel went when the highways were built ?

22:30

Logged on 09-07-2015 02:22:22; decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes

22:30

is it being dug up now?

22:30

asciilifeform: except the highways were ultimately not built

22:30

the only thing new infrastructure is used for, in usa, is to pack in more chumps for same kind of life.

22:31

there will simply be more folks who get to drive the obligatory 1-2 hr

22:31

md 200 should be a full freeway, connect with 95 on at least two other river crossings

22:31

and if it were ?

22:31

they'd just put 2x as many 500k houses in.

22:31

asciilifeform: yes but I'm convinced the reason that people live 2 hours away is because of zoning policy

22:32

could easily fit the entire metro area's population inside the beltway (affordably) if you could build 50 story highrises

22:32

but there's this weird need to have 'own country estate' in the us

22:32

not weird at all

22:33

~i~ want to put as much distance as possible between own arse and these folks.

22:33

it makes god's own sense to me

22:33

that they would feel same way.

22:33

actually I agree with you, I feel the same way to some degree

22:33

my theory is that the space you had as a child 'imprints'

22:33

aha

22:33

city kid can live in apartment for life

22:34

suburb kid needs a suburb

22:34

Not all people are like that, in Columbus they're building lots of 30-40 story apartments because people want em

22:34

i grew up in a city

22:34

They're relatively cheap - $150k-$200k in really well-to-do areas, people want em because they're in the middle of everything and cheap

22:34

but it had almost no traffic

22:34

opposition leader is explaining to the royal commission here on tv, how to build roads that don't need fixing all the time

22:34

But personally, I'd never want to live there

22:34

so traffic noises drive me batshit

22:35

as do screaming morons

22:35

The20YearIRCloud: yeah but in columbus at least it is legal to build more than 5 stories

22:35

we didn't have those, either

22:35

Correct, why it's cheap

22:35

I spent time on a large farm as a kid, cannot stand the population density of cities

22:35

so naturally I live in one

22:35

I can't wait to go back to a farm setting

22:35

just the background noise is irritating, like living in an engine room

22:36

Yeah

22:36

I don't like that, but i REALLY don't like not being able to stand on the back porch and not see anything

22:36

but this means that there are probably many people who are 'trapped' - desire more space between themselves and others - but cannot move away in order to keep a job

22:36

As it stands now ,if I do that here I see tall grass, a trailer, a half plywood house, then a large agricultural facility

22:36

The20YearIRCloud: ah man, best thing in the world is to not see another human in any direction

22:36

70-80% of the population in cities ?

22:36

but to each his own

22:36

what trinque said

22:36

Off the back porch on the farm, the closest house was 2mi

22:37

except that i also want to not have to see them ever

22:37

asciilifeform: you should buy a farm in kentucky

22:37

that sounds like actual work

22:37

fuck that

22:37

We have areas here in ohio that have less population than many in kentucky

22:38

go 'full perelman'

22:38

perelman, as i understand, lives off his mother's pension.

22:38

I'm thinking getting some land in Washington state might be ideal

22:38

trinque: not west of the mountains?

22:38

close enough to drive to seattle shortly, but far enough to not know it

22:39

!up warptangent

22:39

!up Vexual

22:39

decimation: not sure, I've yet to spend time east of them

22:40

maybe there's something nice down 90 waiting for me

22:40

i lived 8 hours north of anchorage for 6 months or so, working remote. when i get out of the house in the morning my ears would heart from the silence. best 6 months of my life

22:40

^

22:40

sounds lovely.

22:40

hurt or heart?

22:40

Silence? No wind or animals?

22:41

and the concentration that can be mustered (in my case at least) cannot be matched inside the engine room

22:41

The20YearIRCloud: after a bit your start hearing the trees lightly creaking in the wind

22:42

I know on the farm it wasn't really ever quiet, there was always something

22:42

but going from that to the city is very, very hard

22:42

another device that did not exist in the city where i grew up was: the subwoofer

22:42

sure, wind, bugs

22:42

but things your mind is quite used to

22:42

asciilifeform: especially mobile ones?

22:42

any kind

22:42

The20YearIRCloud: this was on denali highway which is a kind of a wind tunnel nearby from a glacier. most of it is freezing all the way till mid summer (though i don't know, i spent a winter there)

22:43

*

decimation has subwoofers, but attenuates by 30 dB at least

22:43

as opposed to the hiss of hydraulic brakes, blare of horns, rumble of combustion engines

22:43

I find it really annoying to have muddled bass

22:43

alf had a crystal set

22:43

bugs I can tune out easily

22:43

it isn't even that su didn't know how to make loudspeakers

22:43

but that the idea of turning one on inside a block of flats...

22:44

The20YearIRCloud: but when the wind dies down (mornings mostly) it's what i would call dignified solitude. mountains, quiet. lots of interesting people living within 100 mile range :>

22:44

hmm

22:48

for a day of funk phreakers blowing holes in speakers, a discussion on silence is delicious

22:50

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rw9Z6h3DDMo/TrTY5FJydDI/AAAAAAAAG4Y/m-uVqliksdA/s1600/denali%2Bhwy-6.jpg

22:50

... ( http://bit.ly/1dNhE4G )

22:52

you'd notice a bear from miles away

22:53

and the inverse i guess

22:54

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193778 << the going rate in that market is a few hundred.

22:54

Logged on 08-07-2015 20:42:45; bagels7: i'll be your slave for a million dollars on a 5 year basis

22:55

an' for that matter the "basis" doesn't work like you imagine it does.

22:58

hey funk i saw clinton play, guy made ozone, ya could smell it

22:59

Vexual: kodiak bears stay away mostly. sometimes you get teenage bears looking for trouble, but i've only heard second hand stories

23:00

what happenis if theres a bear looking for trouble? do you run away?

23:00

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193856 << yeah lol, that'll work better than befoar.

23:00

Logged on 08-07-2015 21:13:37; ascii_field: the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball

23:00

bear mace :)

23:01

kinda short range ??

23:04

that specific breed of bears is tame. mostly you spook them and they run away, or you stay and wait for them to sniff and leave. after a few encounters like that the idea of macing a bear from close range doesn't seem particularly disconcerting

23:05

Vexual, awesome :) where was the show?

23:05

bluesfest byron bay

23:06

were you singing?

23:06

no, i din't even yell out

23:07

lol yeah right

23:07

this year?

23:07

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193867 >> pretty much. reddit being shut out of bitcoin is a sign of bitcoin working correctly.

23:07

Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them

23:07

few years back, i forget

23:07

reddit then creating a new dogecoin to serve its perceived needs is a sign of reddit staying reddit, which is top say fucktarded and unable to learn from its mistakes.

23:07

this is a necessity, given that reddit simply is "that collection of people at the age and level of stupidity of a redditard"

23:08

so, whatever, dogecon, keisercoin, auroracoin, gavincoin, blablacoin, let the kids have fun

23:08

better than playing video games

23:08

well, mostly ;)

23:08

the shitty videogames they have now, for sure.

23:09

also better than watching vr mj or whatever it is emi puts out

23:09

reminds me, showed girl b-a channel yesterday. respones, wow cool.. people chat online who aren't just trying to get laid?

23:10

lol how did she meet you ?

23:10

er, you got me there

23:11

who else has she met ? :D

23:13

one never knows, could be more but not so few as indicating severe problems

23:15

height=363734 << wedged here for ~2 hours.

23:15

I don't see any attempt to reorg... but i'm gonna increase the db locks * 2 and see if that changes anything.

23:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194085 << svg is svg yo. not had to fix that part

23:15

Logged on 09-07-2015 00:53:52; asciilifeform: at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.

23:16

mod6 iirc asciilifeform saw the same wedge spot for a bit.

23:16

yeah, im fairly sure that he did.

23:17

asciilifeform: what did you do to bypass this, i thought i read you reconnected with -addnode or did you just /wait/ for a long period?

23:18

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194155 << unreliably. maybe they decide to stop.

23:18

Logged on 09-07-2015 01:17:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does.

23:18

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194158 << bitcoin actually has enough power structure to enforce a uniform rejection of usg leap second.

23:18

Logged on 09-07-2015 01:17:38; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what

23:19

this is a power not to be neglected in the slightest.

23:19

it already allows me to publicly mock all sorts of traditional power structures, reject nist, what have you.

23:21

wait, to be anti-leap second is to be pro-'usg controls time'

23:21

the policy becomes 'time is what my clock in my fortress says' not 'what the sun does'

23:21

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194169 << i didn't misunderstand it. i simply do not credit it at all, just like i don't credit that an object could be arbitrarily pink but shapeless.

23:21

Logged on 09-07-2015 01:22:46; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people'

23:22

decimation there is no "sun does" immediately. sun doesn't. what there is, is, "here's what i say the sun does".

23:22

umm okay

23:22

the original leap second is http://trilema.com/2015/this-is-why-medicine-is-not-a-liberal-profession-but-a-servile-career/#selection-229.0-229.213

23:22

This is why medicine is not a liberal profession, but a servile career on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2i8dP )

23:23

<trinque> close enough to drive to seattle shortly, but far enough to not know it << I would not mind life in Duquoin Illinois if I could support myself there. Trains to Chicago and St Louis, bars walkable. Secondary State Fair. Just everything else... ick

23:23

the only reason leap seconds are even a thing is because clocks have become more precise than the sun

23:24

the concept of "fiat time" is interesting. If we are going to think about what is money ourselves instead of believing the guy in the funny hat, should we also do the same when asked what time it is?

23:24

funkenstein_ turtles all the way down.

23:24

funkenstein_: sure, but note that humanity has a pretty solid informal standard going, has for a long time

23:24

decimation if this facetious "precision" were the point, it wouldn't be t here and t+1 hour a km away.

23:25

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194574 << moved the clock. hence the clock thread.

23:25

Logged on 09-07-2015 03:17:08; mod6: asciilifeform: what did you do to bypass this, i thought i read you reconnected with -addnode or did you just /wait/ for a long period?

23:25

it's not precision. it's political influence.

23:25

<mircea_popescu> ... << the going rate in that market is a few hundred. << I read the original message as hope for a winning "ticket"

23:25

okay, if it's political influence, what's the policy?

23:25

there is no policy.

23:25

"do what we tell you - it's a useful habit for later"

23:25

decimation, not really.. the adjustments are to sync the cycles together

23:25

it is. just, wrong source.

23:25

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194577 << if mircea_popescu has figured out how to 'reject usg time', i'm all ears.

23:25

Logged on 09-07-2015 03:18:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194158 << bitcoin actually has enough power structure to enforce a uniform rejection of usg leap second.

23:26

funkenstein_: you mean leap seconds?

23:26

asciilifeform if bitcoin nodes agree to any different time, it's rejected.

23:26

how are they to agree ?

23:26

again, the possibility is here more important than the actuality.

23:26

yeah. the mayans had a better system

23:26

never you mind.

23:26

we haven't invented the mechanism !

23:26

'if enemy comes, we will shoot him with death ray'

23:26

funkenstein_: you are confusing calendar and clock

23:26

'what death ray'

23:27

you've just described "atomic balance"

23:27

or w/e it's called.

23:27

i described the 'death ray balance' envisioned by tesla.

23:27

who, as far as we know, did not actually have a working electron cannon

23:28

but 'so close' in his own mind.

23:28

*

BingoBoingo notes that in most client software not handling leap seconds seems safe http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150628132834

23:28

Handling Leap Seconds the OpenBSD Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2iq4n )

23:28

no, the thing they spent a trillion to build missiles and subs

23:29

there are three important periodic behaviours. the orbit of the earth about the sun, (lesser - moon about the earth), the rotation of the earth about its axis, and the vibration of cesium atoms. leap seconds syncronise earth's rotation with cesium. calendar synchronizes earth's rotation with its orbit

23:29

<decimation> the only reason leap seconds are even a thing is because clocks have become more precise than the sun << No, it is because Sun and Cesium disagree

23:29

decimation: vibrations of atom don't come with indices. nor do sunrises.

23:29

is this such a difficult concept ?

23:29

nope, nor do years

23:29

aha

23:29

it's not to me

23:29

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194235 << i really don't think that's the primary mission for it

23:29

Logged on 09-07-2015 01:34:14; asciilifeform: not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates

23:30

decimation, you miss the long cycle, but thanks for the distinction between leap second and leap year

23:30

yet, I can use cesium to predict sunrises and use sunrises to predict cesium

23:30

i must confess that i'm not 100% clear on the primary mission. but did have the distinct impression that it involves making use of net jacks that don't have literate and attentive humans attached to them

23:31

the idea was to make use of net jacks in people's houses

23:31

~people~s.

23:31

if we were to ditch leap seconds, I would need to know the 'current delta' to predict cesium from sunrises and vice versa

23:31

*

BingoBoingo watches "Gladiator(2000)" for the first time. Damn the Nordic system sucks.

23:32

"so you'd like to learn more about bitcoin ? here's a pogo and here's a webpage, make it work"

23:32

and what of cuckoldry ?

23:32

ethernet jack in broom closet ?

23:32

"Step one: configure an accurate ntp server. if you don't know how to check the time, ask your parents"

23:32

that's where $20 pogo really shines

23:33

*

asciilifeform head-desks

23:33

or alternatively "Step one: after booting, ensure the pogo has acquired accurate time"

23:34

asciilifeform does have a good point, it seems like a 'sealed system' would have a wider application

23:34

the ~only~ advantage pogo has over pc

23:35

is that you can stuff it in broom closet, camouflage with old bum rags, get on motorcycle and never see the place again.

23:35

better yet, build one in the shape of a power strip (with wifi) and install in local starbucks

23:36

sorta like what aaron swartz went around doing before he was hanged

23:36

decimation: no upnp in starbucks

23:36

gotta have that external 8333

23:36

yeah that's a major sticking point

23:36

upnp hardly works anywhere

23:36

other than as an orifice

23:36

the most problematic aspect, possibly

23:36

i suspect that perhaps 1 in 5 pogos will actually run

23:37

solely on account of this

23:38

you might be able to hijack "STUN" servers meant for sip

23:38

but they might only tunnel udp

23:38

lol, fat lot of good that does.

23:39

By argument via Hollywood /me has no idea how Romans beat Spartans to conquer Greece

23:39

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12812 @ 0.00056898 = 7.2898 BTC [-]

23:40

http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/interactive-connectivity-establishment

23:40

Interactive Connectivity Establishment | Internet Society ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cqdong )

23:40

https://code.google.com/p/rfc5766-turn-server/

23:40

rfc5766-turn-server - High-performance free open source TURN and STUN Server implementation. VoIP media traffic NAT traversal and gateway. TURN client library included. - Google Project Hosting ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqdsDz )

23:41

^ would create a choke point of course

23:41

asciilifeform as i said, this wasn't to my mind related to the p2p relay thing

23:41

umm let's ~not~ tunnel through microshit ??

23:41

mircea_popescu: aha i know

23:41

we will never have enough of these to simply throw away either

23:41

you realise

23:41

throw away, no

23:41

this is a $100 dollar gift, why make it to idiots.

23:41

deploy in places where pc cannot work - yes

23:42

well, an item has the advantage that it can be used as it can be used, rather than as can be intended.

23:42

also 'never say never'

23:42

but the idea throughout, at least in my head, was to have something to give new bloods

23:42

at some point i ~will~ locate the pieces to make something like pogo en masse

23:43

hell, 'hootoo' would be it right now if we could sit down in 32m.

23:43

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194264 << eh get out.

23:43

Logged on 09-07-2015 01:40:33; asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done

23:44

i'll bite. what else will perma-wedge if usg clock moves 2h into the past for a day ?

23:44

it can be passed off as 'botched daylight savings' in my locale

23:45

bank, local merchant shop cash register, games, winblowz, local govt, etc

23:45

winblows - reboot as always

23:45

and that's the unimportant shit

23:45

merchant shop - fails every other day

23:45

decimation: what usg agency would perform this work domestically? asciilifeform:at&t. << top kek

23:45

what do trains, planes rely on?

23:45

all of it is reparable because it customarily breaks every morning six times before breakfast

23:46

like all of fiatworld

23:46

esp on winblowz

23:46

you're moving your goalposts asciilifeform

23:46

?

23:46

yes the shop fails every other day.

23:46

it still would fail.

23:46

btw this is not uncommon where i live

23:47

quite often 'creditcard machine ain't working today. but we dusted off this carbon paper and press...'

23:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @ 0.00056898 = 5.0571 BTC [-]

23:47

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194389 << argentine govt does exactly same stupid failure mode bs

23:47

Logged on 09-07-2015 02:13:37; asciilifeform: the coasts are where usg hands out payola.

23:48

at any rate, down in the log, i point out that it would be absolutely trivial to serve diddled ntp solely to known btc nodess.

23:48

borrows in europe, distributes loot to people in capital

23:48

where else? in pampas, to the pampas cats?

23:48

why the fuck do these schmucks need as much as a cigarette butt ?

23:48

give it to the people going deeply inside.

23:48

I think "absolutely trivial" is a bit of an overstatement

23:48

that way you won't lose wars with fucking peri

23:48

peru*

23:48

l0l!

23:48

asciilifeform yes. like the us did it back when it mattered.

23:49

50 acres and a mule, if you swear to never go to town

23:49

that was before monsanto and winblowz-traktor

23:49

aha

23:49

they wanna be independent

23:49

and "patria doesn't give blowjobs" bs

23:49

those 50 acres are either owned by monsanto or abandoned today

23:50

one of the lulziest electroal slogans here (in the line of "podremos vivir mejor", of course) was... "hay mas futuro"

23:50

!up Vexual

23:50

hipster country.

23:50

who the fuck even comes up with this shit. "there's future left"

23:51

sounds like an obamaism

23:51

'no there isn't'

23:51

"we are the ones we have been waiting for"

23:52

"things are getting better comrades"

23:52

"that's not the plumber in your mother's bedroom"

23:52

actually this could be a film.

23:52

http://image1.thematicnews.com/uploads/topics/preview/00/01/24/91/a5825d35bb.jpg

23:52

... ( http://bit.ly/1D2jLbs )

23:55

asciilifeform: what does it say?

23:55

'living's become better, living's become merrier'

23:56

famously attributed to stalin circa '37

23:56

heh yeah

23:57

well... keynesian logic. if consumption drives production then clearly the economy's never been ion a better shape

23:58

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194583 << would like to see this expanded if mircea_popescu has time.

23:58