Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2015-05-03 | 2015-05-05 →
00:03 * asciilifeform did not drill, does not know
00:03 asciilifeform but it would be fitting if ru were to pay for hallucinated oil with hallucinated airplanes.
00:03 asciilifeform (which, afaik, is what happened)
00:04 mircea_popescu !up bmarch
00:05 bmarch hello, how is everyone?
00:05 mircea_popescu not bad.
00:05 mircea_popescu for the record the british vulcan is one of the shittiest bombers in history.
00:07 mircea_popescu basically a half load quarter range b52
00:08 asciilifeform how much bomber needed against poor orcs.
00:10 mircea_popescu if you're gonna make it....
00:14 mircea_popescu http://catriel25noticias.com/new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2326:estafa-con-promesa-de-trabajo-en-vaca-muerta&catid=130&Itemid=584
00:14 assbot Estafa con promesa de trabajo en Vaca Muerta - Catriel 25 Noticias 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKjX1Z )
00:14 mircea_popescu when's the last time the bulk of the news about a major find consists of various scams ?
00:15 * asciilifeform learned today that ar once knew how to make airplanes
00:16 mircea_popescu before shitheadism/peronism/populism, argentina was a major world power.
00:17 asciilifeform the jets were designed, it seems, by germans (naturally) under peron
00:18 asciilifeform but other than this - sure
00:33 asciilifeform ' President Perón envisioned that a benefit of setting up an aviation factory in Argentina would be to introduce production standards comparable to world-class manufacturing facilities. However, Tank realized that production tools and jigs were not feasible at this stage and relied instead on essentially hand-built examples.' (pediwikian l0l)
00:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.00027065 = 10.9072 BTC [-] {2}
00:33 asciilifeform why does this feel familiar.
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
01:35 pete_dushenski http://trilema.com/2015/that-scary-thing/#comment-114039 << my take on the parsimony vs. decentralisation question
01:35 assbot That scary thing on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zGU7Ni )
01:36 pete_dushenski i'm quite intrigued by the question.
01:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39676 @ 0.00027209 = 10.7954 BTC [+]
01:58 pete_dushenski maybe a better suggestion than the one above will materialise in my dreams. off to find out!
~ 43 minutes ~
02:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00028049 = 14.5294 BTC [+] {3}
~ 18 minutes ~
03:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64850 @ 0.00028593 = 18.5426 BTC [+] {2}
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04:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00027877 = 1.5611 BTC [-]
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07:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.0002729 = 6.2767 BTC [-]
07:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.0002729 = 12.0076 BTC [-]
~ 19 minutes ~
07:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4754 @ 0.00026773 = 1.2728 BTC [-]
07:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42995 @ 0.00026706 = 11.4822 BTC [-] {4}
~ 20 minutes ~
08:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026814 = 5.3628 BTC [+]
08:17 davout http://3v4l.org/tT4l8 <<< php win
08:17 assbot Run your PHP code in our online shell (150+ versions) ... ( http://bit.ly/1EReIPd )
08:23 davout http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2015/05/04/01016-20150504ARTFIG00156-un-sexagenaire-usurpait-la-photo-d-un-mannequin-pour-seduire-les-femmes-sur-le-web.php <<< such raep-lol
08:23 assbot Un sexagénaire usurpait la photo d'un mannequin pour séduire les femmes sur le web ... ( http://bit.ly/1bVUPez )
08:24 davout 60 year-old ugly dude seduced women over the internet using fake profile pictures, has sex with lots of them by inviting them to get laid in the dark while blindfolded
08:24 davout you can't invent that shit
08:29 davout http://librairie.studyrama.com/images/thumbnails/0000/4737/RAEP_en_pratique_large.jpg
08:29 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ERgJek )
08:40 punkman davout, is that his pickup-artistry book?
08:42 davout exactly
08:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176600 @ 0.00026488 = 46.7778 BTC [-] {4}
09:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00026317 = 10.0399 BTC [-]
09:02 kakobrekla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMoK48QGL8
09:02 assbot Equal Pay for Monkeys - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1brSjw4 )
09:07 mircea_popescu ahaha scandalized monkey
09:08 mircea_popescu anyway, "fairness" is not involved there.
~ 21 minutes ~
09:30 davout kakobrekla: nice one
09:31 davout "fairness, invented during the french revolution"
09:33 davout mircea_popescu: how is it not?
09:34 mircea_popescu animals fuck, that doesn't mean animals display "the human notion of love". they display the animal notion of love.
09:34 mircea_popescu therein depicted is some monkey behaviour.
09:34 mircea_popescu no matter what happens, it's still not going to be relevant to the human behaviour.
09:34 kakobrekla shupup monkey
09:34 mircea_popescu yes, i understand that cunts run perl and people on the internet posing as scientists with their "experiment" consisting of a two monkey show use cunts for brains
09:35 mircea_popescu nevertheless, regexp is not the basis for research, or knowledge.
09:36 davout animals can not display "the human notion of X", by definition
09:36 mircea_popescu exactly.
09:36 davout maybe fairness is meant in a broader sense than "the human notion of fairness"
09:36 mircea_popescu and inasmuch as a "animal fairness" is not in common use, calling that fairness is really not unlike calling the guy cunthead.
09:37 davout or as in "fairness as we thought was unique to humans"
09:37 mircea_popescu if it is, it's his job to explain it. not unnamed "philosophers'"
09:37 mircea_popescu yeah. we also thought the color red was unique to staplers, perhaps.
09:37 mircea_popescu who's "we" ? celia whatshername /
09:38 mircea_popescu for that matter, envy is what's at work there, not "fairness".
09:38 mircea_popescu the animal doesn't go "you know bob, this is un-sjw!!1". it goes "fuck you bitch!"
09:39 davout how'd you know it doesn't go "you know bob, this is un-sjw!!1, also fuck you bitch!"
09:41 mircea_popescu i don't.
09:41 mircea_popescu for all you know snakes are wise and the world rests on turtles.
09:41 mircea_popescu how do you know god didn't mean for you to be a woman ?
09:41 davout i'd tend to think that if this was envy, the first monkey would eat the cucumber, and then express some sort of anger at the experimenter, but yeah, what do i know, i'm not a monkey, at least, most of the time
09:42 mircea_popescu maybe eating the lesser food is how they enact group hierarchy
09:42 mircea_popescu and the monkey is going "fuck you bitch" quite literally at the experimenter, whom it (wrongly) perceives as a monkey of the same age and sex.
09:42 kakobrekla maybe cucumber is more healthy
09:42 davout yeah, sounds sensible
09:42 mircea_popescu so it doesn't want to be made his bitch.
09:42 davout cuntcumber
09:43 mircea_popescu maybe you know, random idiots who failed in academia and took to the internet with their dog and pony "scientific" show did this FOR A REASON,
09:43 mircea_popescu and that reason being that when you're stupid, you really need an audience that doesn't know better.
09:43 mircea_popescu then you can talk to it about "anthropologists" and not name any.
09:43 mircea_popescu everyone's happy.
09:44 mircea_popescu i know when russel told me that fairness was invented during the crusades, i fucking quoted him by the name on my blog.
09:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62825 @ 0.00026382 = 16.5745 BTC [+] {4}
09:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52325 @ 0.00026226 = 13.7228 BTC [-]
10:07 mike_c "it looks like Goldman Sachs wants to get in on the ground floor."
10:07 mike_c i guess they haven't read mp's "you're too late" post
10:09 mircea_popescu iirc the pr bit specifically disclaimed any gs investment in bitcoin
10:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22450 @ 0.0002621 = 5.8841 BTC [-] {2}
10:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @ 0.00026713 = 8.1742 BTC [+]
~ 28 minutes ~
10:49 pete_dushenski "As the only woman likely to run for president as a Republican, Carly Fiorina, who officially announced her candidacy Monday, is the GOP’s counterweight to Hillary Clinton." << o hey look what the dead dog of silicon valley dragged in.
10:51 pete_dushenski somehow carla didn't end up mentioned in this article 2014/12/17/a-swimming-pool-of-idle-tears-wont-spare-the-affirmative-action-fallguy-shes-still-the-canary/ but she was definitely in mind when writing it.
10:51 pete_dushenski hell, come to think of it, she inspired the whole damned piece.
10:51 pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2014/12/17/a-swimming-pool-of-idle-tears-wont-spare-the-affirmative-action-fallguy-shes-still-the-canary/ link correction
10:51 assbot A swimming pool of idle tears won’t spare the affirmative action fallguy. She’s still the canary. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1dI7TW9 )
10:53 pete_dushenski this exact same fembot v. fembot routine played out in alberta over the last 3 years.
10:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0002672 = 10.1937 BTC [+] {2}
10:53 pete_dushenski of course, neither fembot made it to this upcoming election, which just so happens to be tomorrow.
10:54 pete_dushenski both were sacrificial lambs to appease sjwesque monkeys, and are now but dust.
10:54 mircea_popescu jesus christ.
10:54 mircea_popescu the woman that sunk hp.
10:55 pete_dushenski or the woman that was thrown in the fire when it was clear that the building was going down and the firefighters were no longer of any use
11:01 pete_dushenski "Police in Texas killed two men who opened fire on a security officer outside a contest to draw cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, the Associated Press reported." << hahaha a muhammad drawing *contest* !! you just know that's going to lead to fireworks.
11:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.017 = 1.7 BTC [+]
11:03 mircea_popescu nah, not at all. she got hired as a great brilliant mind, came up with her brilliant great plan, some men grumbled but w/e, woman haters. it got implemented, it was a disaster, she was canned.
11:03 mircea_popescu that's her story.
11:04 mircea_popescu that she's even got the nerve to set foot outof the house is very reminiscent of that horvath character.
11:05 pete_dushenski ah well in that case... burn the witch!
11:05 pete_dushenski !s horvath
11:05 assbot 6 results for 'horvath' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=horvath
11:05 pete_dushenski ah, not the asian one then, the white one.
11:05 pete_dushenski so hard to keep 'em all straight.
11:18 mats http://teslaclubsweden.se/test-drive-of-a-petrol-car/
11:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00026178 = 10.89 BTC [-]
11:22 mircea_popescu in "the glory of linux", chapter eleventy billion : find . -size 1258 finds nothing. find . -size 1267 finds nothing. find . -size -64 finds all the 1258 and 1267 byte files the previous two didn't find.
11:23 mircea_popescu because not only is 1258 not equal to 1258, it is also smaller than 64.
11:24 mircea_popescu (you hafta add c after the number if you mean bytes. because that's logically neither the default nor is anything wrong with ignoring b silently)
11:24 pete_dushenski "Avoiding that one hundred kilo iron lump in the front of the car makes it so much easier to build safe cars." << yes, because road-going zeppelins are the pinnacle of automotive safety. lol.
11:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22165 @ 0.00026169 = 5.8004 BTC [-] {2}
11:25 pete_dushenski still, some funny lines in there. good find mats !
11:26 pete_dushenski bbl
11:32 mircea_popescu "We asked if the constant sound of the engine -that frankly disturbed us from being able to listen to the radio- could be turned off. But it couldn’t. Very distracting."
11:32 mircea_popescu lol fucktarded future is here.
11:33 mircea_popescu " How much does it cost to fill up at home," << are these people fucking retarded ?
11:35 mircea_popescu not like it's free at home. a liter of gasoline = a dollar = 3kWatt-hours = a dollar or w/e
11:38 mircea_popescu "It is still unhealthy to breathe in – and smells very bad!" dude srsly, sweden is on euro 4. you can't even tell it exhausts something.
11:51 mats http://blog.jwhitham.org/2015/05/review-undodb-reversible-debugger.html
11:51 assbot Jack Whitham: Review: UndoDB, a reversible debugger ... ( http://bit.ly/1zIaLMH )
~ 32 minutes ~
12:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188842 @ 0.00025545 = 48.2397 BTC [-] {4}
12:36 funkenstein_ mircea_popescu: no matter what happens, it's still not going to be relevant to the human behaviour. <-- I may not be a monkey but I am a primate
12:36 mircea_popescu sure.
12:38 funkenstein_ anyway how are things asseteers? sorry i've been out of touch, a lot of logs to go through ;)
12:39 mircea_popescu you will have to bear in mind that all hominid species other than us are extinct. this isn't some sort of direct lineage, as the layman often imagines.
12:39 mircea_popescu monkeys are our (rather distant) cousins, not our uncles or something.
12:40 funkenstein_ it's a good point, all species have evolved the same amount of time
12:41 mircea_popescu moreover, the split is what, 10mn year old.
12:41 funkenstein_ yet we are both frugivores who highly value sexuality beyond reproduction
12:42 mircea_popescu it's unclear we're "frugivores". humans altogether seem carnivores.
12:42 mircea_popescu facultative rather than obligate, but anyway
12:42 funkenstein_ uh, no. without fruit we die quickly
12:42 funkenstein_ without meat, we just live longer with fewer diseases
12:43 funkenstein_ but lets not go down that route, we eat what we can and what we please and enjoy it :D
12:43 scoopbot_revived News! Qntra (S.QNTR) April 2015 Statement URL: http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-april-2015-statement/
12:43 mircea_popescu jurov ^ (shares added)
12:44 mircea_popescu anyway, re the 10mn years thing : the oldest split that created the rat (murines) as different from other rodents is about 13mn years ago.
12:45 mircea_popescu buncha many kinds of rats spawned cca 3mn years ago.
12:45 funkenstein_ wow, that is not that long ago. crocodiles didn't change much over that time.
12:45 mircea_popescu same is true of humans, and like in the case of those rats (and most other mammals), the alternatives are extinct
12:46 mircea_popescu funkenstein_ that's kind-oif the point here. all sorts of fraud available to people trying to push pseudo-anthropology agendas. like for instance people don't readily understand just how huge the genetic and paleohistoric gap between us and chimps is.
12:46 funkenstein_ it's hard to tell how rapidly we are changing in this context as well
12:47 mircea_popescu myeah.
12:48 mircea_popescu funkenstein_ for the record, no fruit was part of the human diet for the longest time (until the persians actually invented fruit - which is exactly what they did)
12:49 mircea_popescu just like maize was not part of the diet until the aztecs invented it.
12:49 funkenstein_ so scurvy was epidemic?
12:50 mircea_popescu no, because you can get vitamin c out of all sorts of other sources.
12:50 mircea_popescu the problem with sailing was that they had no fresh stuff
12:50 mircea_popescu and c vitamin oxidizes quickly
12:50 mircea_popescu if you think about it - they could have used say dried figs, if it was ~fruitness~ specifically.
12:50 mircea_popescu it wasn't.
12:53 mircea_popescu but this aside, yes scurvy - and to a much larger degree pellagra - were endemic and major qol reducers up until very recently. one of the many "blessings" of agrarian settlement.
12:54 mircea_popescu they couldn't really tell, between bubonic plague and malaria and everything else the "better" social arrangements blessed them with.
12:57 fluffypony https://twitter.com/BitcoinErrorLog/status/595268180425183232
12:58 funkenstein_ in more current news, a small scoop offering http://frass.woodcoin.org/on-chumponomics/
12:58 assbot On Chumponomics | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1ES0xt8 )
13:00 mircea_popescu fluffypony heh
13:00 mircea_popescu funkenstein_ you actually maintaining that blog ?
13:02 mircea_popescu "Bob: Don't worry, we factored that into our budget after they upped Avagadro's number in China last year."
13:02 mircea_popescu epic
13:02 funkenstein_ barely :)
13:03 funkenstein_ hehe
13:03 mircea_popescu well if you intend to it can go into the list. but do you ?
13:03 funkenstein_ yeah thanks
13:03 mircea_popescu speaking of employers and induced if purely oral relevancy, http://40.media.tumblr.com/9a6686594091b93f65a8538168937c39/tumblr_mwryfhBxFh1rtyv3jo1_500.jpg
13:03 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELDXBl )
13:04 mircea_popescu ;;later tell williamdunne add http://frass.woodcoin.org/ to list plox
13:04 assbot Free your Frass | Blogulations on Coinologies by Funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELE1ks )
13:04 gribble The operation succeeded.
13:04 danielpbarron funkenstein_, "why not place the Earth at the exact center of a set of large mechanical spheres with seem to move at arbitrary unexplained speeds?" spheres which* seem
13:07 funkenstein_ thanks
13:08 mircea_popescu "can be point " "usually pinpoint"
13:09 mircea_popescu but the idea that any fiat-oriented economics is essentially studying fart flow is sound, and yes it's all a matter of diffusion.
13:09 mats 12:58:25 <+funkenstein_> in more current news, a small scoop offering ... << "ren ming bi" == "renminbi"
13:09 mircea_popescu certainly your model is a lot better than anything keynes spit out, or hence.
13:09 trinque "fart flow" << ahahaha
13:09 mircea_popescu hopefully i get to drink champagne off a chick's tits at the ceremony where an 80yo gets a major prize for this advance.
13:10 mats additionally, the yuan is the unit, and renminbi is the currency, so it would not be correct to use that construction "every dollar, every renminbi, ..."
13:16 mircea_popescu "Il a été mis en examen pour «viol par surprise» en mars dernier."
13:16 mircea_popescu ahaha. bs.
13:18 davout "monkeys are our (rather distant) cousins, not our uncles or something." <<< "l'homme descend du singe, sauf pour certains, qui y remontent"
13:19 mircea_popescu lol
13:19 chatquack *gasp*
13:19 mircea_popescu anyway, it's really about as nonsensical as "carbon causes global warming". men and apes have a common ancestor is all.
13:19 mircea_popescu men and salamanders do too.
13:21 mircea_popescu davout anyway, nothing in that piece makes me think this is anything but a very sad drama, of an old man who is being rejected merely for being old, and is forced to live in a society where random woman (who is no spring chicken either, "une trentaine my foot") can send him to prison arbitrarily.
13:22 mircea_popescu how about she is affixed to a whipping post in front of the town church for two weeks, for being a disgusting nag and a total stereotypist ?
13:22 mircea_popescu pretty fucking scandalous in any case.
13:22 chatquack Hiya BingoBoingo, been a while
13:22 BingoBoingo Yeah
~ 16 minutes ~
13:38 funkenstein_ the guy would have done better using the money for legal fees at the local puterie
13:40 funkenstein_ but some people either think deception is part and parcel of courtship, or perhaps just get off on it.
13:41 funkenstein_ anyway, i don't think they will be able to make lying about your age a violation.
13:43 pete_dushenski funkenstein_: "Lets just continue" << Let's*
13:43 pete_dushenski btw, you should write more !
13:44 pete_dushenski "Lets talk fiat." <<
13:45 pete_dushenski "Lets consider two extreme" << ok, now it's just a stylistic thing.
13:51 kakobrekla fuck you im fixing stuff
13:51 funkenstein_ the base fact that words were being strung together to convey meaning had somehow escaped me
13:52 funkenstein_ now I am trying to catch up, but it seems the form itself is still somewhat fluid
13:53 pete_dushenski kakobrekla: i'm yanking your chain :)
13:53 pete_dushenski funkenstein_: well, as fluid as the author in any event.
13:55 pete_dushenski that's what a blog is, really, an expression of one's ability to swish and swirl one's energies into new spaces.
13:56 kakobrekla anyway i fixed the twitter parser - its not working now. all back to normal.
13:57 BingoBoingo Sweet ty kakobrekla
13:58 funkenstein_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HGKofrl7u4 <- pete_dushenski's keyboard
13:58 assbot Roland Kirk-Clickety Clack - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKMRwS )
13:58 trinque http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/china-rates-its-own-citizens-including-online-behaviour~a3979668/ << chicom-WoT
13:58 assbot China rates its own citizens - including online behaviour | Buitenland | de Volkskrant ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKMS3T )
13:58 trinque except not a WoT at all
13:59 pete_dushenski funkenstein_: heh. clicketyCLACK.
14:00 trinque seems when the US disintegrates it'll be chinese totalitarianism the world has to endure next
14:01 pete_dushenski chicom thing's not a wot, no, but rather a bizarre quantification of fleisch
14:01 pete_dushenski but how else do you manage a billion plus without reducing them to ones and zeroes ?
14:01 thestringpuller pete_dushenski: "“More transactions means more bandwidth and CPU and storage cost, and more cost means increased centralization because fewer people will be able to afford that cost.” << isn't the rebuttal to that on your blog?
14:01 thestringpuller per http://gavinandresen.ninja/time-to-roll-out-bigger-blocks
14:01 mircea_popescu <funkenstein_> anyway, i don't think they will be able to make lying about your age a violation. << should be funny if they do... fill the jail up with 29 yo women.
14:02 trinque pete_dushenski: I don't know that you manage them doing this either
14:02 pete_dushenski thestringpuller: yup, http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/11/the-economics-of-sinking-20-mb-gavincoin-blocks/ and http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/07/how-a-bigger-blockchain-is-less-secure-and-why-block-size-aint-gonna-increase-any-time-soon/
14:02 assbot The economics of sinking 20 MB Gavincoin blocks. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKN9UI )
14:02 assbot How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain't Gonna Increase Any Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKN9UK )
14:02 mircea_popescu jurov you know, i don't read the current propaganda either.
14:03 mircea_popescu i mean on occasion, to lol at the hopresident
14:03 pete_dushenski trinque: 'at least we tried'
14:05 trinque Without such a mechanism doing business in China is risky, she stresses, as about half of the signed contracts are not kept. 'Especially given the speed of the digital economy it is crucial that people can quickly verify each other's creditworthiness.' << wearing a deer-skin and calling yourself bambi
14:05 trinque there needs to be a term for that
14:05 trinque where the lie's the inversion of the truth
14:05 mircea_popescu <kakobrekla> anyway i fixed the twitter parser - its not working now. all back to normal. << win
14:06 pete_dushenski trinque: 'teaching the controversy' is a variant thereof
14:06 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
14:06 trinque pete_dushenski: yes it is
14:06 mircea_popescu <trinque> seems when the US disintegrates it'll be chinese totalitarianism the world has to endure next << the price for vanity is rape. that's what the derps in the sec thinking they;re above doing what i tell you to do are doing toi themselves ; that's what the derps thinking theyre "vcs" and not humbling coming in here are doing for themselves.
14:06 ascii_field # sks cleandb Fatal error: exception Not_found
14:06 mircea_popescu vanity means rape.
14:06 ascii_field ^ mega-l0l
14:07 ascii_field dyfunctional garbage sop
14:07 mircea_popescu poor ascii_field and the shit im sticking him in ;/
14:08 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: you're the worstbest thing that ever happened to ascii_field
14:08 mircea_popescu lol
14:08 ascii_field as per mircea_popescu's ancient observation, this one's an instance of 'it works on my box'ism
14:09 ascii_field that is, the other folks - who probably all eat lunch together - got sks running
14:09 mircea_popescu no but seroiusly, lemme tell you - he wrote that phuctor thing, it's like 500 lines, and so sanely laid out i could go in there and understand what it does and how to modify it within ~5 minutes.
14:09 trinque mircea_popescu: indeed, seems they will try (and fail) to implement components of the republic in the style of massive government
14:09 mircea_popescu people who have no idea how to code go by the "well it works". this guy actually codes by "well this is how it should go"
14:10 mircea_popescu it's very subtle, the quality, but for this reason valuable. not aggresing sanity and common sense is worth a heck of a lot more than "making it work"
14:10 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: i think he might be a keeper ;)
14:10 ascii_field i shat that thing out in ~1 day, too
14:10 trinque "look we're going to centralize breathing. breathing is now banned; the central govt will breathe for you"
14:10 ascii_field it isn't rocket surgery, this
14:10 ascii_field fucking ancient greek tech
14:10 ascii_field (euclid's gcd algo)
14:10 pete_dushenski rocket surgery, no, surgical rocket, yes.
14:10 ascii_field to be fair, the first time i wrote it, it sucked donkey cock (wrote gcd in python, it was dog-slow and O(n^2) )
14:11 ascii_field then rewrote with gmp (what gpg uses)
14:11 pete_dushenski trinque: seems nuts to us, then again, there's a method to the chinese madness or else they wouldn't have ruled so much of the world for so much of modern history.
14:12 pete_dushenski and produced so many of the world's greatest tech.
14:12 scoopbot_revived News! American Green Deploys Two Bitcoin Capable Vending Machines URL: http://qntra.net/2015/05/american-green-deploys-two-bitcoin-capable-vending-machines/
14:12 mircea_popescu yes. the method is : people are idiots and if you're going to parent them, you gotta parent them.
14:12 pete_dushenski *technologeeees.
14:13 trinque I'll admit I'm about as far removed from being able to understand Chinese culture as possible
14:14 mircea_popescu im no expert either.
14:14 ascii_field pete_dushenski: actually china is a case study in failure to develop (invented, sure, but -develop-) various techs
14:14 pete_dushenski no argument here.
14:14 pete_dushenski seems the europeans have been far stronger at taking the baton and running with it.
14:15 pete_dushenski but from whence the baton ? often china.
14:15 pete_dushenski it's actually a hell of a team they form.
14:15 mircea_popescu ascii_field that part is indisputable, but cui malo ?
14:22 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2014#515199 << related vintage mega-thread
14:22 assbot Logged on 19-02-2014 04:48:55; asciilifeform: of, you could say, insufficiently high temperature in the simulated-annealing sense.
14:23 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2014#515214 << mega-recommended b00k
14:23 assbot Logged on 19-02-2014 04:52:44; asciilifeform: rec. reading re: china: 'The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China and the West', T. E. Huff
14:27 mats ^ http://faculty.washington.edu/snoegel/PDFs/reviews/11%20-%20Huff%201996.pdf
14:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKPUoO )
14:27 mats (review)
14:29 ascii_field that review is a zoological specimen indeed
14:29 ascii_field written by a real rotter of a liberast
14:29 ascii_field (see last paragraphs!)
14:29 ascii_field how dare we say that a culture sucked!
14:30 mircea_popescu lol
14:30 mircea_popescu ascii_field my question remains tho. so they fucked up science. indisputable. to whose detriment ?
14:30 ascii_field own?
14:30 mircea_popescu is it ?
14:30 ascii_field they almost got bulldozed in '30s
14:30 mircea_popescu almost only counts in special olympics.
14:30 ascii_field only by sheer luck, there is still such a thing as chinese
14:31 mircea_popescu only by sheer luck is there such a thing as the us, too.
14:31 ascii_field aha
14:32 ascii_field but, in my analysis, if it weren't for su's heavy diddling, the place would've been carved into manageable bantustans by usa post-war
14:32 mircea_popescu maybe.
14:32 mircea_popescu alternatively : cixi's refusal of railroads did have the end effect of no railroads. but also, of silence.
14:34 mircea_popescu suppose chinese monarch had refused... windows. apple. whatever.
14:35 ascii_field forgo railroads - enjoy the silence - until better folks come along and lower your people into untermenschenrasty and build own rails
14:35 mircea_popescu except... it didn't quite work like that.
14:35 mircea_popescu some ills are apparently unavoidable, sure. but the "better folks" got raped meanwhile.
14:36 pete_dushenski and now china can't afford silence ?
14:36 mircea_popescu well certainly not anymore than japan can afford samurais.
14:36 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
14:38 pete_dushenski so now the chinese are in the position of the europeans 60 years ago.
14:39 pete_dushenski wherein they're overburdened with structural issues but no superior alternative is knocking down their door.
14:39 pete_dushenski so they're at once the "better folks" and the untermenschen.
14:40 pete_dushenski how's that supposed to go ?
14:40 mircea_popescu im not sure i follow this model.
14:40 ascii_field pete_dushenski: this is actually the historic ru model of development, once termed 'colonialism with crown as the sole european'
14:40 ascii_field see peter I, etc
14:41 mircea_popescu it seems altogether probable that's what the chinese communist party envisages as ideal, and acts as if were the case.
14:41 mircea_popescu course the model worked historically about as well as welfarism (aka popular democracy)
14:41 ascii_field goes kinda like this: 'my subjects are rubbish and only fit as cannot fodder or to be worked to death in the mines. possibly after x centuries of this, we can make some better ones.'
14:42 ascii_field this is, in a way, an inescapable professional disease of cultures that 'got' industry in a hurry
14:42 mircea_popescu the worst part of that being that it's actually true.
14:42 ascii_field (ru, cn, jp, in)
14:43 mircea_popescu us.
14:43 ascii_field aha us
14:43 mircea_popescu this is the inescapable human condition : most people are exactly rubbish
14:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62732 @ 0.00025421 = 15.9471 BTC [-]
14:45 pete_dushenski which puts the enormity of the chinese quandary in perspective.
14:45 ascii_field how culture answers this realization - determines, largely, whether you get zimbabwe or britain etc
14:46 pete_dushenski how to manage a 130 billion lbs of rubbish ??
14:46 mircea_popescu the problem, of course, being that with globalization you really can't get options. it'll have to be pret a porter, one thing universally.
14:46 ascii_field throw in sea, build artificial island!
14:46 trinque pete_dushenski: probably by reducing them to insecure, servile rubbish
14:47 pete_dushenski that servile part is key
14:47 trinque this scheme of the govt giving you a report card seems intended towards precisely that
14:47 pete_dushenski and already part of chinese culture
14:47 mircea_popescu moreover, didn't japanese employees have to pass physicals at work ?
14:47 pete_dushenski us got the insecure part, but without the servility.
14:47 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2014#761526
14:47 assbot Logged on 19-07-2014 03:41:36; asciilifeform: even ancient china, apparently, had 'cram schools.' (see miyazaki, 'china's examination hell' - neat little monograph on the subject)
14:47 ascii_field ^ mega-b00k on subject
14:47 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: well, waistline tax.
14:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9762 @ 0.00026048 = 2.5428 BTC [+]
14:48 mircea_popescu anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative.
14:49 ascii_field u.s. became the kind of inscrutable and thoroughly-dysfunctional beast we know today partly through the '50-'60s preoccupation with mindgames and 'programmatory' psychochumpatronics, where 'they must not realize they are servile' was the mandatory algo
14:49 mircea_popescu whereas the western folk, while broadly useless, can at least be selected for sanity.
14:50 mircea_popescu ascii_field kinda what makes people unhappy. any slave'll tell you, there's monumental fulfillment in submission.
14:50 ascii_field uncreative << incidentally, it is not necessary to travel to china to witness this. u.s. academia today is solidly confucian (not merely ethnically, this - only in part - but in -operation-)
14:50 ascii_field and virtually every physical sciences whateverthefuck in usa is solidly east asian in staffing
14:52 mircea_popescu hey, they got a feeding hole, and are feeding.
14:52 mircea_popescu confucianism IS very good at a well specified set of tasks.
14:55 ascii_field not even chumps, as such - many of these folks (i usedto work with'em) are laughing all the way to the bank, riding the thermodynamic waterfall between usd salary and cn cost of living
14:56 ascii_field entire departments of u.s. universities have been converted into cn embassies of a kind
14:57 ascii_field where everything is run on their traditional scheme and on their meatwot
14:58 mats discussions on cn in here are always entertaining
14:59 ascii_field http://carlyfiorina.org << mega-l0l
14:59 assbot Carly Fiorina failed to register this domain. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlKzaB )
14:59 pete_dushenski ascii_field: how cn cost of living at us university ?
14:59 ascii_field pete_dushenski: they mail the usd home
14:59 pete_dushenski aha.
14:59 mircea_popescu mats way off ?
14:59 ascii_field where it buys cars, houses, fattens children (raised by grandparents) etc
15:00 mircea_popescu ascii_field ftr, that's pretty much how eastern europe ran throughout the 90s too.
15:00 ascii_field even now (where is the adult male population of latvia, and why ? etc )
15:00 mircea_popescu problem is meanwhile it retardified.
15:01 mats mircea_popescu: meh. cn history is inscrutable, even to chinese.
15:01 mircea_popescu fortunately the us is not large enough to retardify china, but i think we're gonna see some pretty spectacular purges down the road.
15:01 mircea_popescu mats sort-of like trilema :D
15:02 mats 14:48:49 <+mircea_popescu> anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative. << i hear such things repeated all over the english speaking internet... might as well be a meme now
15:02 mircea_popescu might be yeah
15:03 pete_dushenski ascii_field: afaik adult male latvians are working in germany and britain.
15:03 ascii_field ^ aha.
15:03 mircea_popescu as opposed to adolescent female latvians ?
15:05 scoopbot_revived News! Your Own, Personal, Failure URL: http://thewhet.net/2015/your-own-personal-failure/
15:07 pete_dushenski !up ascii_field
15:08 mats most pre-modern recorded chinese history is exceedingly unreliable
15:08 mats this unreliability is magnified the further back you go
15:08 ascii_field even i knew this.
15:09 ascii_field cn never really invented 'history' in the euro sense (of at least attempting de-mythologized recordkeeping)
15:09 mircea_popescu mats word.
15:09 mircea_popescu contemporary records are just as unreliable, it's just that meanwhile our friends in the us inhabituated us with this barbarism
15:14 mircea_popescu ascii_field tbh, i suspect the euro notion of truth never really caught on, even in its own colonies.
15:14 mircea_popescu judea bastardized it into some sort of idiotic mysticism, which is really just rehashing their pre-existing idiocies
15:15 mircea_popescu new world did exactly the same thing, dressed its solipsism to look like euro truth. but it's still solipsism
15:15 ascii_field obligatory:
15:15 mircea_popescu to this day the principal value of latin america literature is its patent insanity in this sense.
15:15 ascii_field 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even
15:15 ascii_field the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building
15:15 ascii_field emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’. ' (orwell, 'looking back on the spanish war')
15:16 mircea_popescu i mean think about it, dialectics was a novel device early 1900s, impressive and all.
15:16 mircea_popescu then again in early 2000s.
15:17 mircea_popescu imagine a programming language in which bubblesort was periodically rediscovered with awe.
15:17 mircea_popescu must be java-something, right ?
15:17 ascii_field mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised at how often this kind of thing -actually- plays out in programmaretarddom
15:18 mircea_popescu i would not be surprised. i'm a manager, recall ?
15:18 mircea_popescu much more keenly aware of how retarded engineers are than the contrary.
15:19 ascii_field e.g., java folks 'discovered' garbage collection in mid 90s (after mccarthy invented it in 1960, but this 'does not count' because reasons.)
15:20 mircea_popescu herpderp's rules or what was it.
15:20 mircea_popescu "crocker"
15:20 ascii_field l0l
15:20 ascii_field crock'o'shit
15:21 mircea_popescu "Blanton, Brad 1996, Radical Honesty: How To Transform Your Life By Telling The Truth"
15:21 mircea_popescu hopefully he has a patent for this
15:21 mircea_popescu "a novel method to live. not previously described in art."
15:21 ascii_field 'radical nutrition: how to transform your life by not eating shit'
15:22 ascii_field 'novel method of non-coprophagic alimentation'
15:22 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAYDiPizDIs
15:22 assbot Monty Python - Theory on Brontosauruses by Anne Elk (Miss). - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlNHDd )
15:23 ascii_field i will add, for interested readers, that mccarthy's garbage collection (and other items) 'did not count' for the same precise reason why mpex 'does not count' to american muppets, and in general why the annoying kid who 'throws the curve' and sends entire classroom of imbeciles to the bottom of the sea, is decreed to 'not count.'
15:25 trinque no one could possibly have been that far ahead of everyone else
15:26 ascii_field no one could possibly (TM)
15:27 ascii_field obligatory: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3203922895939197@naggum.net.html
15:27 assbot Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlOqV7 )
15:28 ascii_field 'The problem is that "exploitation" happens only to people stupider (and consequently less informed) than the "exploiter". The root cause of this whole world problem is that some people are smarter than others. There are two basic solutions to this problem: Kill all the morons, or kill all the brains. If you look at how several political regimes have behaved throughout history, you might get the impression that they
15:28 ascii_field are precisely adopting one of those two options. (Social democracy is a little more advanced: Kill everything outside 2 sigma.)'
15:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00027016 = 17.7495 BTC [+]
15:35 jurov qntra shares distributed
15:39 pete_dushenski !up ascii_field
15:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103350 @ 0.00027159 = 28.0688 BTC [+] {2}
15:47 funkenstein_ How about educate the morons?
15:47 ascii_field educate amoeba
15:48 funkenstein_ Often the "exploiter" is just a moron that has been given a gun and a uniform.
15:48 trinque you'd have to first have the power to compel the morons to learn
15:48 ascii_field funkenstein_: who holds the rifle during deer season? man or deer? and why
15:50 funkenstein_ actually they will not let you wear a police uniform if you score too well on standardized tests
15:50 trinque cop isn't the exploiter in that scenario
15:50 trinque the thing he works for is
15:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00027166 = 11.0837 BTC [+]
15:57 funkenstein_ hmm. . exploitation (n.) 1803, "productive working" of something, a positive word among those who used it first
15:58 funkenstein_ Bad sense developed 1830s-50s, in part from influence of French socialist writings (especially Saint Simon), also perhaps influenced by use of the word in U.S. anti-slavery writing;
15:59 pete_dushenski "Canada's Bombardier Inc and Egypt's Orascom Construction and Arab Contractors will build a $1.5 billion monorail near Cairo, Egypt's housing minister said.The 52 kilometre (32 mile) project is set to be completed by mid-2018 with funding from a 14-year loan" << monorail, monorail, MONORAIL!
16:09 ascii_field achtung, panzers!
16:09 ascii_field http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/glibc-iconv-Implementation.html << wtf is this thing doing in bitcoind
16:09 assbot The GNU C Library: glibc iconv Implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1JMxYk6 )
16:09 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
16:10 ascii_field 7f1d6731d000-7f1d67324000 r--s 00000000 08:14 14287177 /usr/lib64/gconv/gconv-modules.cache
16:10 ascii_field mircea_popescu ^^^^
16:11 ascii_field in other news, https://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2015-3459
16:12 BingoBoingo Fuck, telnet on an infusion pump???
16:23 trinque BingoBoingo: hospital networks are required by law to be secure; I don't see the problem with this
16:32 BingoBoingo trinque: Putting aside the nonsensical "hospital" and "secure", home use of these things isn't uncommon
16:32 ascii_field BingoBoingo: with ethernet ?!
16:32 trinque BingoBoingo: just kidding
16:32 BingoBoingo ascii_field: Yes, "telemedicine"
16:37 BingoBoingo !up PFate
16:37 BingoBoingo 1up miaviator
16:37 PFate thanks
16:40 BingoBoingo !up mariorz
16:40 BingoBoingo !up mats
16:40 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
16:41 mats vulns being released for Hospira equipment due to pending acquisition by Pfizer
16:42 BingoBoingo Ah
16:43 jurov !up miaviator
16:43 jurov PFate: this is just for 30mins, so speak up if you want
16:44 PFate i just got booted from conneciton, not sure i have much to talk about ATM
16:49 mod6 <+ascii_field> http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/glibc-iconv-Implementation.html << wtf is this thing doing in bitcoind << is this another automagically linked in pos to glibc?
16:49 assbot The GNU C Library: glibc iconv Implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1EM1zFX )
16:49 ascii_field aha.
16:49 mod6 ok gotcha. thanks for the heads up.
16:50 ascii_field mod6: now, as far as i can tell, it doesn't jam up the attempted static build
16:50 ascii_field but wtf is that thing even in there for.
16:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48800 @ 0.00027337 = 13.3405 BTC [+] {2}
16:55 mats http://www.dawn.com/news/1177304/pakistan-was-with-us-when-china-stood-isolated-xi-jinping
16:55 assbot Pakistan was with us when China stood isolated: Xi Jinping - Home - DAWN.COM ... ( http://bit.ly/1EM2dmO )
16:55 mats http://www.firstpost.com/world/heres-why-indian-strategists-should-worry-about-chinas-46-billion-offering-to-pakistan-2205216.html
17:05 * lobbes got his new 'training laptop' installed with debian over the weekend.
17:07 lobbes Now to change the init to something other than systemd (for reasons I don't fully grok yet, other than it is being pushed pretty aggressively, from what I gather)
17:07 lobbes and the whole 'roll up all the things into one thing'
17:07 lobbes which seems to make sense as against what makes linux strong
17:07 lobbes I've much to learn
17:09 lobbes so far, it feels noticeably faster than the windows 8.1 that came with the machine (toy)
17:11 lobbes !up ascii_field
17:11 lobbes !up mats
17:13 scoopbot_revived News! Mining Difficulty Increases, Albeit By A Small Amount URL: http://qntra.net/2015/05/mining-difficulty-increases-albeit-by-a-small-amount/
17:26 mats http://ninanews.com/Website/News_Details.aspx?nekwQc6WuB41yVcAbB4fbA%253d%253d << heh. 'we dun wanna fite nemore'
17:26 assbot National Iraqi News Agency - NINA ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHbZt9 )
17:29 ascii_field achtung, panzers!
17:29 ascii_field http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000088.html
17:29 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1E1SKoK )
17:29 ascii_field [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke.
17:29 ascii_field current height == 129871
17:32 ascii_field mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, mod6, et al ^^^^^
17:33 ascii_field memory footprint climbs very, very slowly. as far as i can tell, thus far, this is 100% due to fragging
17:33 ascii_field (as previously mentioned)
17:33 ascii_field also the thing syncs ludicrously quickly.
17:44 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
17:44 BingoBoingo !up mats
17:46 ascii_field 'To honour, while you strike him down, / The foe that comes with fearless eyes; / To count the life of battle good, / And dear the land that gave you birth, / And dearer yet the brotherhood / That binds the brave of all the earth.' (TM) (R)
17:46 ascii_field which one of you folks will be the brave man, who tests this one.
17:47 ben_vulpes wowee, ascii_field
17:47 ben_vulpes field-testing's the easy part (sort of)
17:47 ben_vulpes pulling the pin under fire much less so
17:48 ascii_field testing is just a cheat-heuristic for finding structural problems
17:48 ascii_field if real hero - go straight to reading
17:48 ascii_field note that this one isn't a backport from anyone
17:49 ascii_field it is 95% amputation
17:49 ascii_field incidentally, memory footprint pegs out at ~120M
17:49 ascii_field again strongly suggesting fragging
17:50 ascii_field (why? exercise for the alert reader. if no one gets, i will explain at some point)
17:50 ascii_field current blockheight == 146226
17:50 mircea_popescu ascii_field o srsly ?
17:50 ascii_field aha.
17:52 mircea_popescu As of April 30, 2015, the new price for .ws domains has been increased to
17:52 mircea_popescu $18.98 per year.
17:52 mircea_popescu heh.
17:53 ascii_field again, this is a very preliminary thing. i strongly encourage others to attempt replication.
17:53 ascii_field mircea_popescu: http://www.original-political-cartoon.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/2014/09/24/zeccopy.jpg__700x591_q85_crop_upscale.jpg << obligatory
17:53 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHfEr8 )
17:56 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119821 << "i have a cure for quadriplegics : alcohol rubs!"
17:56 assbot Logged on 04-05-2015 19:47:29; funkenstein_: How about educate the morons?
17:56 mircea_popescu "they're invigorating, to the people who can walk ; selling alcohol helps the echonomy".
17:57 mircea_popescu ascii_field it occurs to me that the word funkenstein_ was looking for, to describe the economy of chumps (whose coin is the bezzlar) would be... echonomy.
17:57 mircea_popescu sort-of works on the infinite mirrors principle.
17:58 ascii_field l0l!
17:58 ascii_field yes.
17:59 mircea_popescu "All the benefits of loadable modules are available in the GNU C Library implementation. This is especially appealing since the interface is well documented (see below), and it, therefore, is easy to write new conversion modules."
17:59 mircea_popescu gotta love 'em.
17:59 mircea_popescu anyway, what would it be doing in bitcoin. waiting for when libnss is yanked out, to kick in.
17:59 ascii_field many interesting observations could be written re: the echonomy; taxonomy of chumps (free-range vs corralled, etc.) and the like
18:00 ascii_field mircea_popescu: aha. the spittoon is brim-full and rancid
18:00 mircea_popescu maybe once we get 100k pounds a year to study our memories of collegiate dentistry.
18:00 mircea_popescu "The drawback of using loadable objects is not a problem in the GNU C Library, at least on ELF systems. Since the library is able to load shared objects even in statically linked binaries, static linking need not be forbidden in case one wants to use iconv."
18:00 mircea_popescu and this is on www.gnu.org/
18:00 ascii_field 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice'
18:00 ascii_field is the equation here.
18:01 * ascii_field knew that mircea_popescu's antennae would stand up from reading that thing
18:01 mircea_popescu and all this so that idiots can use their idiot alphabets.
18:02 mircea_popescu fuck you, everyone. 27 letters or go back to your fucking yurt.
18:02 ascii_field not even.
18:02 mircea_popescu computers are for humans not for whatever the fuck special needs monkeys use "diacritics"
18:02 ascii_field it is so that idiots can use 1,001 incompatible encodings for their hieroglyphs
18:03 ascii_field (recall 'mule' debacle in emacs ? that almost killed it as a living project ?)
18:03 mircea_popescu myeah
18:03 ascii_field the real mega-question is why it is in bitcoin
18:03 mircea_popescu because it was there.
18:04 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119852 << hehe ayup
18:04 assbot Logged on 04-05-2015 20:41:33; mats: vulns being released for Hospira equipment due to pending acquisition by Pfizer
18:06 ascii_field ben_vulpes: tried your rng yet ?
18:11 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119553 <<< speaking of crocodiles, welcome to australia http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-04/crocodile-captured-in-daly-watersjpg/6443998
18:11 assbot Logged on 04-05-2015 16:45:26; funkenstein_: wow, that is not that long ago. crocodiles didn't change much over that time.
18:11 assbot Crocodile captured at Daly Waters - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHicoX )
18:12 mircea_popescu mats meh, the entire china pakistan thing seems overstated.
18:12 ascii_field still syncing
18:12 ascii_field 151566
18:14 mircea_popescu ascii_field didja put instrumentation in place to measure speed or bw ?
18:14 ascii_field mircea_popescu: i have a clock on the wall
18:14 ascii_field that so far is the instrument
18:14 ascii_field this was 10 min of work, srsly
18:14 mircea_popescu aha ok
18:14 ascii_field tonight i'ma valgrind it
18:14 mircea_popescu myeah reading the patch now
18:15 mircea_popescu ascii_field would help if you can also measure bw used/block
18:16 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
18:16 ascii_field if any part of the patch does not make immediate sense, ask now - i'm about to get into a wheeled coffin for a few hrs
18:16 ascii_field mircea_popescu is wondering about wasted bw (of which there is megatonnes) ?
18:16 mircea_popescu seems pretty clear. plus as davout would say, it's quicker.
18:17 mircea_popescu anyway, i don't perceive what the great danger is here.
18:17 mircea_popescu it doth not alter verification or anything
18:17 ascii_field air filter convo from c3
18:17 ascii_field it raised my suspicions by working 'too well'
18:17 mircea_popescu and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes.
18:18 ascii_field a block gets fetched, here, potentially infinitely many times
18:18 mats mircea_popescu: i agree. US strategists, on the other hand, should be concerned
18:18 mircea_popescu definitely.
18:18 mircea_popescu which is why the piece howls like so. "india should be concerned about how we pooped our pants"
18:18 ascii_field every time someone spews out a bastard, we end up snarfing preceding blocks
18:19 ascii_field but it really cooks, in terms of apparent performance on the runway
18:20 mircea_popescu see past 300k.
18:20 ascii_field the purpose of this patch, incidentally, was not to cure what ails us, but to make it possible to intelligently study the fragging
18:20 mircea_popescu most everyone has low index blocks sorted anyway
18:21 mircea_popescu (there's a passive gossip-y sort of sorting that occurs as time goes by, because new clients join and so the "overall" blockchain is ever more sorted in early blocks as time goes by)
18:24 ascii_field mega-fraggage
18:24 ascii_field ~130MB
18:25 ascii_field and, tell-tale sign, non-monotonic
~ 18 minutes ~
18:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47550 @ 0.00027008 = 12.8423 BTC [-] {2}
18:49 cazalla ;;later tell Vexual your boy zhenya http://www.afr.com/technology/bitcoin-trader-digital-cc-aims-to-become-the-uber-of-money-transfers-20150504-1mxo0j
18:49 assbot Bitcoin trader Digital CC aims to become the Uber of money transfers | afr.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1R7JTeg )
18:49 gribble The operation succeeded.
18:54 trinque "the uber of X" jesus christ
18:54 trinque that's the new "facebook of X"
18:55 trinque "er uh... you know how Uber like, disrupted... something? yeah we want to disrupt too"
18:55 trinque *activate main disrupter array*
18:55 trinque meanwhile somewhere in a dark, dusty WU cubicle, "Sir! You wont believe this but... someone's *disrupting* us!"
18:59 jurov on second thought, the simile is even more funny
18:59 jurov because it means, they are going to recruit gobs of chumps to do their dirty work cheaply
19:01 williamdunne Isn't the 'Uber of' thing about getting your users to supply the infrastructure rather than getting the expensive assets yourself?
19:02 williamdunne i.e AirBNB has no property
19:02 mircea_popescu at great coist to themselves.
19:02 williamdunne Uber has no cars
19:02 mircea_popescu airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ?
19:02 williamdunne Everything the USG does is funny
19:02 trinque sure, that's been the whole social web scam since forever
19:03 williamdunne I don't see it as a scam, maybe you can change my mind, but it seems like a pretty efficient way to do things
19:03 mircea_popescu i fail to see the difference between "here's how to cook if you have hardwood floors" and "here's how to make 30 bux (out of which we take half) by taking on 5k liability"
19:03 williamdunne I've not used Uber before, but I have used AirBNB and it was cheaper than a premier Inn but in a really nice house in the centre of London
19:03 williamdunne Room was clean
19:03 williamdunne Food was good
19:03 williamdunne etc
19:03 williamdunne People said they've enjoyed doing it and earn more than just renting out the room
19:04 williamdunne win/win/win, no?
19:04 mircea_popescu i also had nice experiences with crack whores. still not much of a business model.
19:04 williamdunne Well sure, I wouldn't invest in an AirBNB hotel
19:04 williamdunne But I don't think that is the point
19:05 williamdunne Its meant to be renting spare rooms not a dedicated hotel, no?
19:05 williamdunne Sorta the point
19:05 mircea_popescu it's not legal to rent rooms in places not deidcated for this purpose.
19:05 mircea_popescu for an entire array of perfectly sound reasons
19:05 williamdunne Since when was anyone here interested in what is legal?
19:05 trinque lol who is this kid
19:05 mircea_popescu mkay. it's nonsensical to rent rooms in places not dedicated for this purpose.
19:07 mircea_popescu sort-of like impromptu dentistry and hobbist airplane piloting, this.
19:07 mircea_popescu if it works great and if it blows up... whoops.
19:07 mircea_popescu nobody could have foreseen a blow-up, we're success-oriented these days
19:07 * trinque notes that he can't yet find profit numbers for airbnb
19:07 mircea_popescu trinque from what i hear they're about to get litigated into the ground.
19:08 mats they're not publicly traded
19:08 mircea_popescu unlike musk, they're not actually somebody. hard to put up a fight. even with graham's efforts.
19:09 williamdunne I dunno, maybe I'm missing something but it seems like a pretty solid alternative for short stays. Wouldn't use it for a holiday but, a weekend in a new city? Sure.
19:09 williamdunne Seems like a lot more can go wrong with amateur dentistry than amateur room-renting
19:10 williamdunne Just like amateur-programming, and amateur-boxing rarely result in death
19:10 williamdunne Well
19:10 williamdunne Maybe amateur boxing not so much
19:10 trinque first guest leaves ass crabs in the bed for the next guest
19:10 trinque who's liable when #2 sues
19:10 trinque right answer is goddamn everyone gets sued, including airbnb
19:10 williamdunne Renter you would hope, for not cleaning the sheets
19:10 williamdunne Landlord?
19:10 williamdunne Doesn't sound right
19:11 trinque so they're going to get dragged into fight after fight, yet they're delegating control over the situation to just about anyone
19:11 trinque so really in intending to minimize their risk they've maximized it
19:11 trinque or so I read
19:12 trinque s/ass crabs/rapist in closet/ or whatever
19:12 mats why would you possibly want to use airbnb
19:12 mats why not just invite a homeless person into my home and let him stay there for a few days
19:13 mats and then move back in
19:13 trinque mats: because wisdom of crowds == disruption
19:13 mats same filthy experience
19:13 trinque and we uh, want to disrupt
19:13 mod6 <+ascii_field> [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke. << Just saw this on the train & read patch. Great work!
19:13 mod6 <+ascii_field> 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice' << heheh, yeah pretty much.
19:14 trinque mod6: right, and everyone on both ends of the transaction will ultimately try to blame their reputation system or whatever didn't work
19:14 mats i'd rather be slapped in the face with half a dozen cocks than sleep in a mystery airbnb bed
19:14 williamdunne trinque: Doesn't look like there has been too much going wrong, a few cases of houses being vandalized, or customers being dickholes
19:14 williamdunne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbnb#Incidents_and_renters.27_security
19:14 assbot Airbnb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GW2ggw )
19:14 williamdunne mats: How do you deal with hotels?
19:15 trinque hotels are places which deal with this shit every day
19:15 trinque and are a good hotel to the extent that they do that well
19:15 trinque when I was a teenager I did IT monkey stuff for a Hilton
19:15 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes. << this was the thought that came to my mind too.
19:15 trinque poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected
19:16 trinque or god knows what other kinds of mess in the rooms
19:16 jurov !up shesek
19:17 mod6 so, I have that deb6 aws env still... I used to use MRTG, but now I guess this 'RRD' thing is all the rage. I know for sure that I can test mem on a 1s interval with vmstat and capture that with `script`. I'd really like to compare the network traf of full sync with the patch, and without.
19:18 mod6 So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo.
19:18 trinque end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility
19:18 trinque that's the "innovation"
19:18 mod6 got an AMI built from stage3 with a new kernel, which promptly kernel panic'd when I used said AMI to provision a new system
19:19 mod6 then, I tried the same thing without a new kernel, with the same result. I'm gonna try one more time with kernel and see if I get any different results.
19:19 trinque "We could deploy a carnival so much more quickly if we didn't bother with safety precautions, and instead let each guest assemble his piece of the rides, and signing off that he is personally liable for that part."
19:19 mod6 I don't think I will... so not really sure where to go on that. trinque, I think you're gonna have to help me build this thing; if you can.
19:20 trinque ok
19:20 trinque mod6: I have my own needs for a nicely scripted gentoo-ec2 deployer
19:20 trinque might build one this week
19:20 jurov what kind of panic?
19:20 mod6 sec...
19:21 mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-default-kernel.txt
19:21 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GWyb3b )
19:22 trinque first thought is whether that's actually an ext4 volume
19:22 mod6 (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel)
19:22 trinque and you only have the ext3 support turned on
19:23 mod6 i don't have evidence to support this claim: i'm very sure everything was setup for ext4
19:23 trinque mod6: post the .config
19:24 mod6 <+mod6> (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel) << no new kernel, no .config
19:24 trinque well what kernel is it though
19:24 trinque you just ran genkernel all ?
19:24 mod6 now, the new one I'm trying; that one has a .config -- that's actually the last thing I just did in the steps, config'd the kern, build the kern. now need to make the AMI and try it.
19:25 mod6 i didn't do anything special in that case. tbh, didn't know I had to, or even what to do, if anything.
19:25 mod6 There was some talk that one wouldn't/shouldn't need to change kernels anyway for AWS.
19:25 trinque depends on whether it's hvm or pvm
19:25 mod6 it's all paravirtual
19:26 mod6 anyway, i'll give an update in here after this next attempt with a new kernel.
19:26 trinque that would probably be it; you need the xen turds turned on in the kernel in that case
19:27 mod6 I know for sure I did that the first time... didn't seem to help. however, the first attempt, I'm not positive that I didn't somehow screw-up the fstab.
19:27 trinque that could also be it
19:27 mod6 the instructions that you posted were slightly off from what is reality on these environments. (perhaps just a bit old)
19:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13148 @ 0.00027434 = 3.607 BTC [+]
19:27 mod6 i.e.: none /syssysfs defaults 0 0
19:27 mod6 sysysfs isn't a thing
19:28 mod6 it's supposed to be this, I'm pretty sure:
19:28 mod6 none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
19:28 trinque yeah probably old; I didn't use a write-up
19:28 mod6 fffff
19:28 mod6 sorry, paste'd 2x
19:28 mod6 no worries, now when I check it with `mount -a`, it all seems happy
19:29 mod6 maybe the document just didn't space the /sys & sysfs properly.
19:29 mod6 *shrug*
19:29 mod6 anyway, moving on. I'll get the test in motion for asciilifeform's new patch.
19:29 trinque that error does seem to indicate it trying to mount an ext4 as ext3
19:30 trinque so says my quick googling
19:30 mod6 The first attemp's error might have... I only got a glimpse of it once though, it never let me look at the System log again for some dumb reason.
19:30 mod6 Anyway, no worries, I was moving fast. Figured I was just stupid.
19:31 trinque cool. dunno when I'll make my auto-deployer thing, but I'll let you know if that materializes
19:31 mod6 np. i was more hoping if this 3rd attempt fails, you could watch over my shoulder to make sure I don't make any retarded moves.
19:32 mod6 (on 4th attempt)
19:32 trinque sure, and I have a working kernel config handy if you want that
19:32 mod6 that may help too. i'll let you know how it goes. much appreciated.
19:32 trinque sounds good
19:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29762 @ 0.00027434 = 8.1649 BTC [+]
19:39 jurov trinque: i'm interested, too. i did it once but did not made a script from it
19:40 trinque k
19:42 jurov unrelated: if any poor soul is trying btrfs, use kernel >=3.19.5 . so far much better
19:42 trinque how stable is that these days?
19:42 trinque wiki says "under heavy development"
19:43 jurov disk format is stable. runtime not there yet
19:44 jurov i expounded on that yest
19:45 trinque I'll check teh logs
19:49 jurov could be very useful to roll back corrupted bitcoin database.. if i had snapshotting set up
19:50 trinque seems nice for servers in general too, bad deploy, go back to previous snapshot
19:52 jurov *if* you have spare disk space. otherwise, watch out
19:58 mircea_popescu <mats> why would you possibly want to use airbnb << it's really a sort of swinger's club for people that are not really into swinging.
19:59 mircea_popescu williamdunne << wikipedia may not be the best source of information
19:59 mircea_popescu especially for anything not to do with star wars.
20:00 mircea_popescu mod6> So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo. << you hear that alf ?
20:00 mircea_popescu and i thought i was retarded.
20:01 mircea_popescu trinque that's the "innovation" << exactly. and inasmuch as the us tort system is insane, this is both unavoidable and in a sense useful. but this doesn't mean uber makes any sense, anymore than shaving head in women makes sense. "but she's got lice" "well in THAT case"
20:02 trinque hah indeed
20:03 trinque mircea_popescu: speaking of women, I've mused before about a service that handles all financial and bureaucratic considerations for an average american
20:04 trinque you give it your paychecks, it makes sure your taxes are done, all that, and gives you an allowance
20:09 mircea_popescu tits app ?
20:09 mircea_popescu i imagine Pierre_Rochard 's thing is actulaly very close to that. prolly bestwork as a wrapper on it
20:20 trinque mircea_popescu: looks interesting; this is for maintaining and publishing your books?
20:20 trinque looks like as a business, but similar needs
20:20 mircea_popescu you mean Pierre_Rochard s thing ?
20:20 trinque yeah
20:21 Pierre_Rochard mircea_popescu: trinque yup that’s right up my alley
20:21 mircea_popescu i dunno, he's working on it. but basically yeah, should be a web/bitcoin interface for accounting'
20:21 Pierre_Rochard I have a “personal finance” chart of accounts and a “service business” chart of accounts, they’re CSVs that are easy to customize
20:22 trinque Pierre_Rochard: very cool; I think americans would pay for a managed version of this
20:22 trinque nobody wants to do their damn taxes, or pay their own rent
20:22 trinque they just want to be given an allowance by dad after everything's handled
20:23 trinque I'm not sure there's enough allowance left to allow sufficient margin for the accounting service
20:23 trinque americans are after all mostly poor
20:23 mircea_popescu should be a very interesting world once the us is poor and east/central asia ric
20:23 Pierre_Rochard trinque: agreed, I’m thinking I’ll have a source code subscription for the hacker types, and a hosted treasury concierge for the lazy/busy
20:23 trinque Pierre_Rochard: right on
20:23 Pierre_Rochard yeah this isn’t for poor people
20:23 Pierre_Rochard poor people don’t have money problems, they have lack of money problems
20:23 trinque !b 2
20:24 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09J2KJ0.txt )
20:24 mircea_popescu in other news, shoe problems http://40.media.tumblr.com/996bce3d7cadf68f3dcb6cbca5d36ca5/tumblr_n1kzmtoDiA1sx2zfgo4_r1_1280.jpg
20:24 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwg2Y )
20:25 Pierre_Rochard asians understand the value of good accounting, went to school with many of them
20:25 mod6 http://dpaste.com/1NHSMPB.txt << patched into bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE, sig looks good, although the hash's didn't match what the filename was changed to on btc-dev ml
20:25 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwkjk )
20:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00026691 = 8.3276 BTC [-] {2}
20:25 mircea_popescu mod6 iof the hashes don't match you shouldn't generall merge
20:25 mircea_popescu tho i suppose this one's small enough to read
20:26 mod6 i wonder if I did something wrong... jurov?
20:26 trinque also mod6 output of a recent genkernel build http://dpaste.com/00XCYJR.txt
20:26 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwA1W )
20:26 trinque maybe relevant to your barf message
20:27 mod6 these are the commands I ran:
20:27 mod6 curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_2d219fdd1a0da960be38797566e9c0820df11ce6.patch -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
20:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwKX6 )
20:27 mod6 curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_6f320afb2423a2892d89e855829e3915c8b7a170.patch.sig -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch.sig
20:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwM14 )
20:31 mod6 mircea_popescu: anyway, yeah, agreed. I did look it over, and is matching from website as far as I can tell. & byte count is the same.
20:32 mod6 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4007 May 5 00:19 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
20:32 mod6 *shrug*
20:33 mod6 ... taking gentoo snapshot for 3rd AMI attempt.
20:33 danielpbarron mod6, http://danielpbarron.com/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.txt
20:33 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuxRG3 )
20:35 mod6 yep, got that too... but check the sha256's of the dl'd patch files, see if they match the checksums that the ml inserted into the file name.
20:35 mod6 if not, see if they came out same as mine from my dpaste
20:37 danielpbarron same as yours
20:37 mod6 s/files/and sig files/
20:37 danielpbarron i'm not sure it's supposed to come out the same as the thing that gets shoved into the filename
20:37 mod6 ok gotcha. just need some clairification from jurov on that.
20:37 danielpbarron it should match whatever hash ascii referenced in his signed email message though
20:38 mod6 i thought it /was/ supposed to be the same. but, maybe im just derp derperton tonight.
20:38 mod6 The hash referenced inthe email was for the bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE.tar.gz tarball, which is correct.
20:39 danielpbarron the patch.sig is by ascii's key, so it shouldn't matter what it hashes to or what btc-dev says
20:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MG] 50000 @ 0.00009 = 4.5 BTC [-]
20:39 mod6 yeah, shoudn't being the key word there; in my mind, it certainly should match.
20:40 mod6 otherwise, why do it?
20:40 mod6 what purpose would it serve?
20:40 danielpbarron i do not know
20:40 mod6 :]
20:41 danielpbarron to make it a pain in the ass to verify any of this stuff; to set the bar high so as to keep out the children
20:42 mod6 sweet, new ami complete.
20:42 * mod6 builds new instance with AMI
20:47 danielpbarron http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev The system will rename the patch and add unique identifier (SHA-1 hash of the contents) to the filename, both in the outgoing email and in the archives. Any additional signatures must refer to this received filename including the hash.
20:47 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuzXG7 )
20:48 danielpbarron there's yer answer: it's sha1; not sha256
20:48 danielpbarron checks out on my end
20:49 mod6 ah sha1, see, derp derperton
20:49 mod6 mine matches just fine too. thx for digging that up.
20:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19450 @ 0.00026447 = 5.1439 BTC [-]
20:52 mod6 meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt
20:52 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuAS9t )
20:52 mod6 i'll post my build steps.
20:53 decimation http://www.itworld.com/article/2917587/open-source-tools/singapores-prime-minister-shares-his-c-sudoku-solver-code.html < imagine a us politician releasing a C++ sudoku solver
20:53 assbot Singapore’s prime minister shares his C++ Sudoku solver code | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuBbBe )
20:55 trinque not bad
21:00 mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/build-stage3-notes.txt << build notes
21:00 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCjon )
21:01 mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/kernel-config-20150503 << kernel config
21:01 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCosg )
21:02 trinque nicely done
21:02 trinque mod6: boots?
21:03 mod6 no fails 1/2 checks, kernel panic'd
21:04 trinque ah
21:04 mod6 check the last 3 lines of this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt
21:04 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCMXH )
21:04 trinque did you try that rootfstype=ext4 ?
21:04 trinque on the kernel command line
21:05 mod6 that's for the kernel config right?
21:06 mod6 i had build this kernel yesterday. i don't see anything about "ROOTSTYPE" in my config that I used... (posted above)
21:06 mod6 i guess I can rebuild again and stick that in there.
21:06 trinque for the kernel boot parameters provided by the bootloader, might be via this thing https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/UserProvidedKernels.html
21:06 assbot PV-GRUB - Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuDcND )
21:08 mod6 oh huh.
21:09 mod6 i thought that one thing said that I didn't need Grub unless i was using hvm or whatever.
21:09 mod6 i try it with that...
21:14 asciilifeform mod6: you have an ext4 rootfs dontcha.
21:14 asciilifeform mod6: either 1) don't or 2) build ext4 into the kernel
21:15 trinque (and not as a module)
21:16 asciilifeform aha
21:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46345 @ 0.00026111 = 12.1011 BTC [-] {2}
21:19 danielpbarron https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34uu02/why_increasing_the_max_block_size_is_urgent_gavin/cqycy4h "Rather, the only push you see against larger blocks come from strong advocates of personal autonomy and decenteralization, like Peter Todd; or the MPOE crowd (regardless of what you might think about them, they wouldn't be any to bend to commercial or government interests)."
21:19 assbot nullc comments on Why increasing the max block size is urgent | Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuFigz )
21:19 * asciilifeform started valgrindized run of thermonuked-orphanage tester
21:20 asciilifeform is anyone still having checksum problems ?
21:21 asciilifeform <mircea_popescu> tho i suppose this one's small enough to read << they should ALL be small enough to read.
21:21 asciilifeform no exceptions.
21:25 asciilifeform <mod6> meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again << that's not a real kernel panic, again. that is a box that can't read its rootfs
21:25 asciilifeform <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere
21:27 asciilifeform sha512(asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch) == 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78
21:27 asciilifeform please say if you got something else.
21:27 asciilifeform jurov: can we have less mutilation (file names?) plz ?
21:27 asciilifeform i much prefer systems where what i put in, is what ends up coming out.
21:28 asciilifeform unless explicitly asked otherwise.
21:31 asciilifeform <mircea_popescu> airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ? << 'airbnb', 'uber', etc. fill a direly urgent market niche in usa - 'orcish' favour-style services for folks with no friends. it would take a very strong chance of being busted, for folks to quit using these. (consider what is the penalty for, e.g., smoking weed - does it deter?)
21:31 danielpbarron !up livegnik
21:31 livegnik Thank you Daniel! Hi everyone.
21:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu> sort-of like impromptu dentistry << big business in the turd world (of which usa is properly considered - a part)
21:32 livegnik I'm Tim Pastoor, co-founder of Identifi. I'm just the business developer who's working on the project. Sirius is the real dev in there.
21:32 mod6 ok bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 + Orphanage Nuke is running with `nmon -f -s3` & `vmstat 1`, so we should have some good metrics when complete.
21:33 danielpbarron "CEO & Co-Founder of Identifi -- Collaborating on an Open Source Protocol for Sending Trust over the Internet; Advancing the Wild Wild Web into a Web of Trust."
21:33 * asciilifeform actually used 'uber' for the first - and so far, only time - getting back from airport after c3
21:33 livegnik I didn't know in what other way to describe it in ~140 characters. Open for suggestions / feedback anytime :)
21:33 mod6 asciilifeform:
21:33 mod6 # sha512sum asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
21:33 mod6 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
21:33 mod6 it's fine, I just didn't realize that in the filename, the turdolator uses SHA1
21:33 asciilifeform <trinque> poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected << one of the major brainmelters for me, when i went to c3, was that the gurlz who serviced the hotel rooms, were pretty
21:34 asciilifeform this is unheard of in usa
21:34 trinque asciilifeform: ah yeah they were total trolls at my old gig
21:34 asciilifeform <trinque> end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility << this is part of it, but the major profit comes from de-institutializing - de-usgizing - the cabbies and hotels
21:34 asciilifeform in the sese that random schmuck driving 'uber' has no paperwork, no pensions, no unemployment insurances, cannot sue for anything, etc.
21:35 trinque asciilifeform: hm yeah, "this is so much better!" because it's not wearing lead shoes
21:35 mod6 I should re-iterate that I'm still waiting on a pogo to come to me...so this v0.5.3.1+OrphanageNuke test is running on AWS deb6 (amd64)
21:35 trinque makes sense.
21:35 asciilifeform and probably has a day job, so he doesn't need anything like a 'living wage' either
21:36 asciilifeform there will be myriad parasitic waterfalls like 'uber', i expect, which feed upon the difference between what it -actually- costs to do something like driving cab - at butugychag subsistence levels with zero regard for the meatbag's future - and what usgtronic tentacles which masquerade as american firms presently charge.
21:36 asciilifeform (naturally, usg will pocket the bulk of this difference, but such is the nature of muppet war)
21:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135400 @ 0.00025545 = 34.5879 BTC [-] {4}
21:40 asciilifeform livegnik: are you familiar with the 'wot' we use here ?
21:43 livegnik I've just bumped into it, thanks to danielpbarron pointing me to it, and that's how I've ended up in here :)
21:44 asciilifeform livegnik: consider telling us what you perceive is the advantage of your product over what you now know is the state of the art.
21:45 danielpbarron livegnik, not sure how much you've already found; here's a good starting point http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/wot_and_reputation
21:45 assbot wot_and_reputation [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMwpI )
21:45 livegnik It's a protocol for identity management for both humans, entities, and machines. It gives the ability to create Sybil-proof WoTs (to the extent that the least trustworthy node added, decides the strength of your security), for almost anything.
21:46 asciilifeform livegnik: what is involved in a 'sybil-proof' wot for machines ?
21:46 asciilifeform or, for that matter, people? (how do you decide what constitutes a person?)
21:46 livegnik Yesterday I've written an extensive comment on Ian Grigg's article about ID issues, especially in combination with the blockchain. It's quite the read, but I think it'll be worth your time, if you want to get a more in-depth view of Identifi:
21:46 livegnik http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/001556.html
21:46 assbot Financial Cryptography: The Sum of All Chains - Let's Converge! ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMAFN )
21:47 livegnik asciilifeform: Mostly a whitelist. Whitelisting solves the Sybil. The thing is, whitelisting hasn't been very user-friendly up till now, without the security trade-off.
21:47 asciilifeform whitelist composed by whom? kim jong un ?
21:47 asciilifeform the pope ?
21:47 livegnik asciilifeform: A set of attributes, identifiers. I've extensively elaborated on it in the comment on Ian's article.
21:48 livegnik Might be tl;dr though ...
21:49 livegnik There's no whitepaper atm, so the comment in that article probably explains it best/most thus far.
21:49 asciilifeform try to answer this one compactly, it should be answerable. who composes the whitelist ?
21:49 livegnik Also, you can find the proof-of-concept on GitHub: https://github.com/identifi/identifi
21:49 assbot identifi/identifi · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMY7b )
21:49 livegnik The identity to whom the whitelist belongs.
21:49 livegnik Each identity creates it's own whitelist / WoT.
21:50 asciilifeform so your system reduces to 'if you trust 1,001 people who turn out to be sybils, shame on you, you oughta have known better' ?
21:50 asciilifeform this is how existing wots work. but to say that this 'solves sybils' is, at the very least, odd
21:50 livegnik You could put it that way, yes. But it can visualize sybil swarms by showing the few 'real IDs' linking to it.
21:51 asciilifeform what is a 'real id' ?
21:51 livegnik The people you know and trust (for whatever reason) basically, and therefore have verified.
21:51 trinque So we're all the same -- we people are the same as smart contracts, as block chains, etc, and we should be able to make recipe that describes us. We should be able to collect all these things together and make it such that we all look the same. << wtf
21:51 trinque this is written in a haphazard manner
21:52 trinque aside that it just strings together analogies
21:52 danielpbarron !gettrust livegnik
21:52 assbot livegnik is not registered in WoT.
21:52 asciilifeform the text is astonishingly painful to read.
21:53 asciilifeform so far it seems to add up to a 80% re-implementation of the proper wot out of toothpicks and tape.
21:53 livegnik brb
21:53 asciilifeform with a distinct lack of clarity re: what it is all for.
21:53 danielpbarron livegnik, what do you make of this? -> http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=danielpbarron
21:53 assbot WoT Trust - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjNt1e )
21:54 trinque So we can have a "mainnet" can we also have "AliceNet" or "Mynet?" Yes, in theory we can. << this does *not* follow
21:54 trinque insofar as you're saying will computers run and call themselves asscoin if I create an asscoinnet, sure
21:55 trinque considering "what is bitcoin" is called for before calling it fungible with any other *net
21:55 trinque or *coin
21:55 trinque "I mean, they're all blockchain technology."
21:57 trinque livegnik: this "guid" you're reaching for is called a keypair
21:58 livegnik I'll need 10 more minutes, sorry guys.
22:02 asciilifeform !up livegnik
22:12 mod6 trinque: where can I add "rootfstype=ext3" or "rootfstype=ext4" to the list of boot params? I don't see anything thing like that in the kernel config -- except where I've already enabled EXT4 and EXT3
22:13 mod6 well, i guess I didn't have EXT3 enabled, just: "Use ext4 for ext2/ext3 file systems" under "Filesystems"
22:13 mod6 (in `make menuconfig`)
22:17 livegnik I'm back. Sorry for the interruption.
22:18 livegnik asciilifeform: my/Ian's/both our text pain to read?
22:19 livegnik asciilifeform: Hopefully this interview I've done with current partner, before I joined the project, clears up what it could be used for in the 'real' world: http://unbit.nl/2014/09/16/martti-malmi-on-bitcoin-and-identifi/
22:19 assbot Unbit.nl - Martti Malmi on Bitcoin & Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLRWZL )
22:20 livegnik danielpbarron: I like Bitcoin-OTC, even though I haven't used it myself. I do believe that I grasp the concept itself though.
22:21 trinque livegnik: reading that I'm not clear on what "it" is
22:22 trinque mod6: that parameter is one provided to the kernel at boot
22:22 livegnik trinque: it == Identifi
22:22 danielpbarron "Martti Malmi is a former computer science student from Helsinki University of Technology who nowadays works as a software developer. He is well-known for being the first person to join Satoshi Nakamoto in the development of Bitcoin."
22:22 mod6 trinque: from grub??
22:22 livegnik danielpbarron: The main difference between Bitcoin-OTC and Identifi, if I understand correctly, is that the Bitcoin-OTC WoT acts as a WoT-for-all, whereas with Identifi each identity has it's own WoT, and there's no 'general' score.
22:23 trinque mod6: yeah from whatever the bootloader is; there's also a way to build command line (meaning kernel command line) parameters into the kernel itself
22:23 mod6 ah, ok.
22:23 mod6 thx
22:23 trinque np
22:23 danielpbarron the general score can be ignored for the most part (in the OTC / assbot WoT)
22:23 trinque livegnik: ah I'm looking at the website for that project now
22:24 livegnik I agree that it can be ignored for the most-part, but Identifi doesn't even contain it.
22:24 livegnik trinque: Would that be identifi.org or identi.fi?
22:25 danielpbarron livegnik, do you get the whole L1 L2 thing?
22:25 livegnik The first is a quite shallow explanation of the project, we'll update it within a few months or so (after rounding up the pilot projects, board of advisors, and funding).
22:25 livegnik The latter (http://identi.fi/) is a proto-type of what a front-end COULD look like.
22:25 trinque livegnik: so this is a haxed bitcoin where the payments are instead ratings, yeah?
22:25 trinque livegnik: was looking at everything linked from github
22:25 livegnik danielpbarron: Could you elaborate on the L1 L2 thing for me?
22:26 decimation livegnik: what are you going to use funding for?
22:26 livegnik trinque: Yes, for the most part. And there's no blockchain.
22:26 danielpbarron livegnik, my L1 or "level one" consists of users that I trust (have given a rating) directly
22:26 danielpbarron my L2 "level two" consists of all the users trusted by users in my L1
22:27 danielpbarron so it is like a WoT within a WoT as you might imagine, where each user is a WoT or whatever
22:27 livegnik trinque: There are 2 types of messages: 1.) verifications of identity's identifiers, and 2.) trust ratings ("Alice is a terrific barber!". "Bob is the worst car salesman!", "DID_REPAY_LOAN_ON_TIME", etc.)
22:27 livegnik danielpbarron: Ah, the viewpoints. Capice.
22:27 danielpbarron !up sunbeachbabe
22:28 livegnik danielpbarron: Identifi does the same with the trust ratings, you can set your viewpoint from 0 to infinite.
22:28 sunbeachbabe Lol assbot
22:28 danielpbarron in the real WoT, the max is 2
22:28 danielpbarron what would an L3 consist of? friend of a friend of a friend? no thanks
22:29 livegnik Within Identifi networks the max is infinite, but the proto-type of our front-end hands you the options 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or infinite degree.
22:29 livegnik Well, that info is there. It's up to you to filter.
22:29 danielpbarron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZd_YyFzPD0
22:29 assbot Spaceballs - "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate." - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLSLln )
22:29 livegnik ghehe
22:29 trinque danielpbarron: what does that make us?
22:29 trinque ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
22:29 trinque ah great movie
22:30 decimation livegnik: what are you going to use your funding to do?
22:30 livegnik decimation: Mainly for further development, in cooperation with our pilot partners.
22:31 livegnik I'm actually not interested in a very high valuation, to be honest, just to be able to pay a few devs to work on this full-time.
22:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95296 @ 0.00025239 = 24.0518 BTC [-] {3}
22:32 livegnik The idea for business model for the company we have in mind probably comes closest to Red Hat, without the Enterprise edition.
22:32 livegnik One size that fits all. Additional applications could be ran on-top of the node.
22:32 decimation you get the government to pay you for other people's work?
22:32 trinque !up livegnik
22:32 decimation !up livegnik
22:32 livegnik decimation: Not sure if I understand ...
22:33 decimation what is 'redhat's business model without enterprise'?
22:33 livegnik Services mostly. Helping business who want to integrate Identifi nodes within their existing environments mostly.
22:33 livegnik Mostly.
22:33 livegnik Sorry, 4:33am(sterdam) over here.
22:35 trinque I'd be interested to see an example of that business model working for something that's not a) propped up by VC b) propped up by govt or c) already had a viable consulting business
22:36 danielpbarron heh, Anduck is in your "address book" of ratings
22:36 livegnik trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project full-time. I've actually quit my dayjob for it and am burning my savings.
22:36 livegnik Yep.
22:36 danielpbarron !gettrust assbot Anduck
22:36 assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -5 via 7 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/
22:36 livegnik Everyone in the Bitcoin-OTC WoT should be in there, if correct. There's a Bitcoin-OTC crawler for Identifi nodes :)
22:37 decimation livegnik: what do you have to offer over properly using gpg?
22:37 livegnik https://github.com/identifi/identifi-crawlers
22:37 assbot identifi/identifi-crawlers · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLThQq )
22:37 livegnik decimation: Well, I guess usability on many fronts mostly. Also, it can be integrated within many existing fields.
22:38 danielpbarron sounds like this idea can be adapted to the gribble/assbot divide problem
22:38 livegnik I'd even dare to predict that this should enable business models like, e.g, a decentralized credit rating agency.
22:38 livegnik What's the gribble/assbot divide problem, if I may?
22:38 danielpbarron the WoT forked
22:38 livegnik Hmm. How did that happen?
22:38 danielpbarron someone mined a block that was too big :p
22:39 livegnik Ah :P
22:39 danielpbarron it's in the log which you should read
22:39 livegnik Identifi is blockchain-agnostic in itself.
22:39 livegnik Got url?
22:40 danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109240
22:40 assbot Logged on 24-04-2015 13:15:14; mircea_popescu: gribble went down at some point. this is rare, but whatever, happens. nanotube was also unresponsive. after a few days in this position assbot got enabled to wot
22:41 livegnik Can I drop a few lines (like 15 or so) in here to give some examples of what Identifi nodes could be applied to?
22:42 danielpbarron any of the many free txt file hosting services
22:42 livegnik Sure thing.
22:42 danielpbarron dpaste is a favorite in here; also pastebin
22:43 livegnik There ya go: http://pastebin.com/ucczV0hr
22:43 assbot - One-way authentication, so that the party that you're authenticating with does - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLTH9q )
22:43 livegnik I'll check dpaste. I've been using pastebin up till now for the most-part; years.
22:43 danielpbarron so there should be a link on your site to my "address book" listing ?
22:45 livegnik http://identi.fi/id/account/danielpbarron%40bitcoin-otc.com
22:45 assbot Identifi - danielpbarron ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjUDTa )
22:45 trinque livegnik | trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project << for the logs, it is never, ever a good idea to leap off into some venture with both feet when the venture has no profitability or plan to achieve it
22:46 trinque livegnik: this killed my last employer, as it should have
22:46 trinque the idea that profitability is something you can "figure out along the way" if at all, is a braindead american VC concept
22:46 livegnik trinque: We plan to break-even within (max) a year or 3.
22:46 trinque as noted earlier in the logs, these days our chief export is bullshit
22:47 livegnik I can't say too much about it at this time, but I can tell you that we have an accountant who's helping us to crunch the numbers.
22:47 trinque yes but this is "if we get x and y consulting dollars" and so on?
22:47 livegnik That's one revenue stream, yes.
22:47 livegnik Happy to elaborate on the others when I can make that info public.
22:47 trinque sure
22:48 trinque and maybe you will; difficult position to be in to say the least
22:48 trinque livegnik: what does each node store its WoT in?
22:49 livegnik An sqlite3 database.
22:49 trinque as I understand it you're basically using the bitcoin transaction propagation stuff to send out rating data?
22:49 trinque then stuffed into sqlite
22:49 trinque ?
22:49 livegnik Yes,
22:49 trinque so you're merely using "bitcoin" as a gossip layer
22:50 trinque keypairs and gossip about ratings is probably not far from the mark
22:50 livegnik And we're working on a permission database / filter/firewall & communication application that can run between the node that stores the actual data, and the other trusted nodes, in order to set thresholds based on permissions for sharing info.
22:50 livegnik You could put it that way. It's a layer to shuffle your marmot around, or whatever analogy you prefer.
22:50 livegnik Not far from the mark?
22:52 trinque if you're not using the blockchain I dunno why you don't just use gpg keys and some gossip protocol; as I understand it bitcoin isn't even very good at that part
22:52 danielpbarron lolol "shuffle your marmot"
22:53 trinque heh
22:53 * trinque reserves judgment on whether this is a nice marmot yet
22:53 trinque seems there's a simpler way
22:54 livegnik trinque: I'm not much of a coder, so I'm not able to answer that last remark at this point. Martti probably has a fitting answer for that one, according to my previous experiences with his mostly-always-sufficient answers.
22:54 trinque livegnik: get in our WoT so you can self-voice, and invite him along too
22:54 livegnik I'm open for suggestions though, and again, I'm just the business developer. Martti is the real dev on this one.
22:54 trinque debate is how things operate around here
22:55 livegnik That's why I love hearing your feedback.
22:55 livegnik I've been trying to find people to break this theory, but haven't bumped into them yet. At the same time, there aren't too many people working on these types of solutions throughout the world atm.
22:55 trinque livegnik: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
22:55 assbot irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLUtTH )
22:55 trinque instructions on registering
22:56 livegnik I'm finishing up some things atm, and will then go catch some rest. My IRC server is up 99% of the time (the missing 1% was yesterday), so I'll be back in here :)
22:57 livegnik Thanks for your thoughts on this so far. I'll invite Martti to join us in here.
23:00 trinque I see two problems, one solved by gpg entirely, which is establishing an identity
23:00 trinque the other is a publishing problem, mostly solved by gpg
23:00 trinque "who says"
23:01 trinque the rest of the problem is what they said, about whom, and how that information is discoverec
23:01 trinque *discovered
23:02 danielpbarron You can try it out at http://identi.fi. You can easily log in with FB/G+/Twitter/email and give ratings and verifications. It's still in alpha stage and the user interface is under constant development. My goal is to make it easier to use than the address book on your phone. << that part's got to go if it's going to be worth anything
23:02 assbot Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLUXt8 )
23:03 danielpbarron !up livegnik do you have a GPG key?
23:03 livegnik Not for this purpose, yet. I'll fix it later today (after I wake up).
23:03 trinque rather than gossip protocols and all this other fancy shit, what's wrong with a simple gpg message format that constitutes a rating
23:04 livegnik Sorry for bothering you with level-upping me constantly. I won't be on for much longer now anyhow, so I won't waste too much of your typing and/or clicking ;)
23:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94476 @ 0.00025766 = 24.3427 BTC [+]
23:05 livegnik There's probably not much wrong with simple gpg messages. There's more to Identifi than rating messages however.
23:05 danielpbarron it's less of a bother than your apology for the perceived bother
23:05 livegnik lol
23:06 livegnik In that case, sorry to bother you with the apology for the perceived bother.
23:06 trinque oh shit, meta-apology
23:06 trinque livegnik: go to bed!
23:06 livegnik ghehehe
23:06 trinque and bring your partner in here for a beating next
23:06 livegnik haha
23:06 livegnik I'll try and do that.
23:07 livegnik I know who's beating I'll put my money on though.
23:07 trinque heh sounds like you already have
23:07 livegnik I did? Oh, I might have become insusceptible to them then by now.
23:09 livegnik Disregard that last one, miscommunication on my side. I think you're right about me going to bed then.
23:09 livegnik I enjoyed talking to all of you. See y'all in Round 2! :)
23:09 danielpbarron http://unbit.nl/wp-content/uploads/5399242443_45f4a3b223.jpg << http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/graph/
23:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLVqM1 )
23:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLVr2n )
23:10 trinque livegnik: cheers
23:11 livegnik danielpbarron: Thanks for that link! With Identifi it could look something like this: https://twitter.com/timpastoor/status/585515976566960128/photo/1
~ 23 minutes ~
23:34 mod6 trinque: same thing :/
23:35 trinque sheeit
23:35 mod6 http://dpaste.com/0578KZ6.txt << my grub
23:35 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLWWOc )
23:36 mod6 has the same error in the System Log.
23:38 mod6 oh well, i guess we can pick it back up tomorrow.
23:38 trinque mod6: http://dpaste.com/1PBGHN3.txt
23:38 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZ9xkZ )
23:38 trinque may help; that's a working gentoo kernel out on ec2
23:39 trinque and otherwise if all else fails I'll be putting my own build script together before long
23:39 trinque kernel /boot/bzImage root=/dev/xvda1 rootfstype=ext4
23:39 trinque from menu.lst
23:40 mod6 yeah isn't that what i have in grub? ^^^
23:41 trinque yup
23:41 mod6 meanwhile...:
23:41 mod6 # ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getblockcount
23:41 mod6 138922
23:42 mod6 <+trinque> may help; that's a working gentoo kernel out on ec2 << i'll try this out tomorrow
23:42 mod6 <+trinque> and otherwise if all else fails I'll be putting my own build script together before long << ok sweet!
23:43 trinque sounds good; bbl
23:43 mod6 anyway, if my grub looks good, then maybe it's my kern. but it could be something else... not quite sure.
23:43 mod6 ok night
23:43 decimation http://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-talent-wars-engineers-come-get-your-250k-salary/ < lol silly-con valley 'bizness'
23:43 assbot Silicon Valley talent wars: Engineers, come get your $250K salary - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLXpQj )
23:44 decimation "It's "a horrific idea," [paying $250k] said Sam Altman, the president of Y Combinator, Silicon Valley's most prestigious technology incubator. "It seems on paper like a really good idea [since] great engineers can create huge value. [But] here's why it doesn't work: You really want a company full of missionaries, not mercenaries. And so if your company is known as the place where you can make a huge cash salary, you end up
23:44 decimation attracting" the worst cultural fits. "
23:45 decimation of course he's not a fan, because if suddenly 'talent' thinks they are worth $250k instead of $50k, his own business implodes
23:46 Pierre_Rochard ^ place this quote under “self-serving” in a dictionary
23:48 decimation Pierre_Rochard: exactly. also, given that if you are making less than $150k in silicon valley you are literally a bum - it won't take much for 'salary fashions' to change
23:48 mircea_popescu lmao.
23:48 Pierre_Rochard “You really want a company full of missionaries, not mercenaries.” <- well let’s say their are fewer missionaries in the labor market than there are missionary positions. You have to compete for them somehow.
23:49 Pierre_Rochard “we’re more religious than the next guy d00d!! we only worship helping consumers with javascript!!”
23:49 * mircea_popescu places sam altman's "mp killed our business model, sadly, as he said he would" quote under "unexpected honesty" in his own personal disectionary.
23:49 scoopbot_revived News! The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume X URL: http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-x/
23:51 danielpbarron ;;later tell livegnik see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065991
23:51 assbot Logged on 23-03-2015 22:08:54; assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 15:07:09; Adlai: this is a good point... even if each wot rating is signed, this can be a false friend - what if you're not looking at the latest version of the ratings? if only we had some way of achieving trust-minimized consensus...
23:51 gribble The operation succeeded.
23:53 asciilifeform <decimation> http://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-talent-wars-engineers-come-get-your-250k-salary/ <<< the mega-l0l is that 250kusd doesn't even buy a garage there
23:53 assbot Silicon Valley talent wars: Engineers, come get your $250K salary - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZbjTa )
23:54 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120239 << i was wonderin the same thing. time for sha512 erryone.
23:54 assbot Logged on 05-05-2015 01:25:57; asciilifeform: <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere
23:54 decimation asciilifeform: amusingly here's a breakdown of silly-con valley real-estate: http://allenc.com/2015/04/salary-requirements-for-a-house-in-silicon-valley/
23:54 assbot Salary Requirements for a House in Silicon Valley ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZbopL )
23:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's a modest condo, like 1.5-2mn ?
23:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: according to decimation's chart - very close to this.
23:54 decimation median price in palo alto was $2.4 mil in 2014
23:54 asciilifeform where i live - about 1/2mil
23:55 mircea_popescu "Let’s assume we want a $1.0M, below-median house in Redwood City. You’d have to start by coming up with ~$220k in savings for the down payment + closing costs, and then take out a mortgage for the remaining $800k"
23:55 mircea_popescu heh. mkay.
23:55 mircea_popescu decimation but those be houses, mostly. right ?
23:55 decimation yeah freestanding homes
23:56 decimation I think a small flat goes for 0.5-1 mil
23:56 mircea_popescu A car is pretty much a requirement in the suburbs. Even without accounting for car payments, gas and insurance and tolls will eat up $200-300 per month easily. << i thought tesla is free!
23:56 mircea_popescu or is that only in sweden
23:56 asciilifeform phree
23:56 decimation you are saving so much in gas!
23:56 asciilifeform they built phree charging garages in key chump habitats in usa
23:57 asciilifeform (promotional gimmick)
23:57 mircea_popescu "Salaries and bonuses and stock grants may be jumping higher in our current boom cycle, but a lot of it is recaptured in real estate." heh
23:57 decimation no shit sherlock
23:57 mircea_popescu the sad truth is that "quantitative easing" essentially ends up as a real estate bubble.
23:57 asciilifeform the squid giveth, the squid taketh away.
23:57 decimation exactly. there's nowhere for all the vast slosh of bezzlars to go, other than real estate and the stock market
23:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform o i know. was very amused at some incredibly hamhanded esl scam-pushing linked earlier.
23:58 decimation the indentfi guy?
23:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform speaking of penalties and actual deterrence : it's as you may know rauchen verboten here. so i pull out a cigarillo and head to a table where three girlies are derping (at starbucks). ask for a light. they... all have it.
23:59 mircea_popescu who the fuck carries matches/lighters around if they don't fucking smoke.
23:59 asciilifeform folks who smoke weed
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