Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2015-02-05 | 2015-02-07 →
00:00 asciilifeform https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Special:BrowseData/Wired_embedded_system
00:00 assbot Browse data: Wired embedded system - WikiDevi ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZlpcs )
00:00 asciilifeform ^ mega-list
00:02 decimation ah that is handy
00:13 decimation asciilifeform: http://bit.ly/1zVgaPU
00:13 assbot HP Support document - HP Support Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZnc1h )
00:13 decimation hp t5325 'thin client' < 512 mb ram, marvell 88F6281
00:14 decimation $36 on amazon
00:14 decimation looks to be 'old stock' though
00:24 asciilifeform decimation: just about all of the listed machines are 'old stock'
00:24 asciilifeform quite useless, unless one of us were to come across a gigantic crate of these somewhere.
00:24 decimation http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-32-HP-ThinPro-Thin-Client-T5325-1-2GHz-512MB-RAM-Flash-Factory-Reset-/331451731260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2c100d3c
00:24 assbot Lot of 32 HP Thinpro Thin Client T5325 1 2GHz 512MB RAM Flash Factory Reset | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZoDg1 )
00:25 asciilifeform golden toilet.
00:25 decimation $900 is a bit steep though
00:25 decimation might be worth $300-400 at most
00:26 decimation the whole 'thin client' idea is hilarious stupidity
00:26 decimation 'we take away ur computerz so u can be productive'
00:27 asciilifeform it came solely from folks writhing under the leather straps of microshit
00:27 decimation aye. and for the secretary using 'word' it would be fine, more-or-less
00:27 asciilifeform tired of spending money/labour on disinfecting 10,000 boxes presided over by tetris-playing accountants, or retail clerks
00:28 decimation for retail clerks: why not serial terminals? what does the mouse gui add?
00:28 asciilifeform because that was the previous usg monopoly.
00:28 asciilifeform (ibm)
00:28 asciilifeform the new one - requires mouse.
00:28 asciilifeform 'shuddup & suck on it' (tm)
00:28 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-12-2014#941070
00:28 assbot Logged on 02-12-2014 03:31:49; assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 03:44:22; *: decimation remembers every pos and library using said terminals growing up, only to be replaced with buggy-ass windows for no reason
00:28 asciilifeform aha
00:28 asciilifeform watched this happen.
00:29 asciilifeform beautiful keyboards, too
00:29 * asciilifeform ended up buying such a terminal (not from library) and using for a long while
00:29 asciilifeform as a student.
00:29 decimation aye, my first job was a library clerk, using an ibm serial terminal
00:30 decimation had a 'laser scanner' peripheral, even
00:30 decimation scan item, populates text box
00:30 * asciilifeform still has one of those scanners. with the old stainless steel wand.
00:30 decimation yeah that's the one
00:30 asciilifeform glorious thing. emulated ps/2 kbd.
00:31 asciilifeform (had rs232 port also, presumably for terminals)
00:31 decimation I recall the library was running some variant of 'unisys'
00:33 decimation neh, not unisys, unicorn by sirsi
00:34 asciilifeform http://wikileaks.org/wiki/SirsiDynix_Corp_restricted_lobby_paper_against_Open_Source_technologies%2C_Sep_2009 << related
00:34 assbot SirsiDynix Corp restricted lobby paper against Open Source technologies, Sep 2009 - WikiLeaks ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZpWM6 )
00:35 decimation lol they saw the writing on the wall
00:35 decimation actually they shouldn't have capitulated to the modern gui idiocy
00:35 decimation today you could build a really cheap serial terminal, perhaps with 'e-ink' display
00:36 asciilifeform the 'fast' e-ink remains mythical.
00:36 decimation my wife's new kindle is pretty fast
00:36 decimation but probably not fast enough for a full terminal
00:36 asciilifeform folks have ported linux to 'kindle'
00:36 decimation at any rate, it's moot because libraries in the us don't see the point in keeping books anymore
00:36 asciilifeform can now try and see
00:36 decimation hu
00:37 decimation every year or two her cheapass kindle 'breaks'
00:37 asciilifeform http://www.turnkeylinux.org/blog/kindle-root
00:37 assbot On my Kindle I am root | TurnKey GNU/Linux Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZqgKP )
00:37 decimation usually, the screen stops updating. I never bothered fixing it, figured it wasn't worth my time
00:38 decimation I should try the hack to see if I can fix it
00:38 * asciilifeform has a 'kindle dx'. no signs of wear after ~4 yrs.
00:40 * asciilifeform sometimes wonders whether that product category would exist - and what it would cost if it did - if there were not a built-in chumpatronic collector
00:40 asciilifeform (which one is not forced to use, unlike the one in certain very early 'e-readers', but tempts sufficiently many ESL (to use mircea_popescu's term) folks to bring in a pretty penny for the vendor)
00:41 mircea_popescu the kindle ?
00:41 asciilifeform aha
00:41 mircea_popescu i don't perceive its utility
00:41 decimation I think the ebook sales are mostly woman-porn
00:41 asciilifeform i use it mainly for lib.ru
00:41 decimation they can read in public without showing the embarassing covers
00:42 asciilifeform (not literal lib.ru, long dead, but texts in general)
00:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93329 @ 0.00038887 = 36.2928 BTC [+] {2}
00:42 asciilifeform as for the chumpatronics, i have no idea who uses.
00:42 asciilifeform someone, somewhere.
00:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and if you need to bash something what do you do ?
00:42 asciilifeform they keep making'em
00:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there's a quote collector widget.
00:43 mircea_popescu no no
00:43 asciilifeform with 'clitoris' joystick
00:43 decimation sufficiently many people believe in paying for ebooks I guess
00:43 mircea_popescu does it have a for ?
00:43 asciilifeform it goes to a text file.
00:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34115 @ 0.00038959 = 13.2909 BTC [+] {2}
00:43 mircea_popescu bash as in bourne shell, not bash as in take ntoes.
00:43 asciilifeform ah
00:43 mircea_popescu but fine, the notes : suppose you now want to write an article. how do you type, and how do you send it to trilema ?
00:43 asciilifeform then i walk three meters to the actual computer, lol
00:43 mircea_popescu suppose you want to say something here. like a quote.
00:44 asciilifeform see above
00:44 mircea_popescu o wait, this is like a woman that's useful as long as another woman is around ?
00:44 decimation lol mircea_popescu no one types on the kindle
00:44 mircea_popescu decimation my poinbt being, i can't really do anything of the intellect without the whole computer.
00:44 asciilifeform 'kindle' is not a computer! it's this entirely specialized machine, like kitchen mixer.
00:44 asciilifeform my mixer also does not run bash
00:44 asciilifeform (yet)
00:44 mircea_popescu but my mental life is not compartimentalized, like kitchen.
00:44 decimation no, it's a 'read-only' device. the model is that the reader has nothing to say
00:45 mircea_popescu but it happens that i oft do have a loit to say
00:45 mircea_popescu and also i need to test and verify what i read
00:45 mircea_popescu and so on
00:45 asciilifeform the model is that one wishes sometimes to emulate a book.
00:45 mircea_popescu in short, i know of no other process involving the noggin than the full process.
00:45 asciilifeform (why to do this, is a matter of taste)
00:45 decimation do you scribble in the margins?
00:45 mircea_popescu in the book days i used to have my books filled with papers.
00:45 * asciilifeform usually prefers to scribble in an actual notebook
00:45 asciilifeform aha and papers.
00:46 mircea_popescu as in, have someone to (cut, if uncut) and prefill with blank paper.
00:46 decimation how do you scribble in an ascii text file?
00:46 asciilifeform emacs ?
00:46 mircea_popescu and the worst thing a maid could do is drop a wreath of books on the way to shelving
00:46 mircea_popescu good god. a cloud of now useless paper, and a criminal eyed mp
00:47 decimation asciilifeform: but how do you separate your changes from the original text? does emacs do this?
00:47 asciilifeform diff.
00:47 decimation heh
00:47 mircea_popescu lol
00:47 mircea_popescu what's wrong with > ?
00:47 decimation I guess there are many simple solutions.
00:48 * asciilifeform owns many peculiar machines on account of quests like 'program in bed' and 'read ascii/koi8 on balcony' etc.
00:50 mircea_popescu i guess im a reactionary. i own, substantially, the exact kind of machine i had as a child.
00:50 asciilifeform there is not, nor can be, a replacement for The computer.
00:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.0003885 = 16.6667 BTC [-]
00:50 asciilifeform you know, the one that is heavy, if you kick, won't move
00:50 mircea_popescu it went from 16 to 64 bits, sure, but otherwise the box is exactly the same size even
00:50 asciilifeform can hold a kg or 2 of dust
00:50 asciilifeform etc
00:51 decimation asciilifeform: like ibm AT?
00:51 mircea_popescu i have half a dozen laptops which i use... maybe a day a season, or something, between the lot.
00:52 mircea_popescu i borrowed an ipad for a coupla weeks to check out the games and i gave it back without regrets - more with relief.
00:52 danielpbarron http://danielpbarron.com/patch_test.txt
00:52 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZscCX )
00:52 decimation ipad is great for entertaining small children
00:52 mircea_popescu i don't think anything ever was as stulfifying as the ipad game scene. perhaps the failed nes.
00:52 mircea_popescu decimation but small as in 3 yos.
00:52 decimation aye
00:53 mircea_popescu yeah, that i have seen. there's a koi pond simulator
00:53 decimation that's pretty much the mental model of the ipad
00:53 decimation 'tap on large icons, receive reward' is pretty much intelligible for 12 months and older
00:55 mircea_popescu extremely odd their insistence on no porn, either
00:55 mircea_popescu that's pretty much the only non-infantile use of the thing.
00:56 decimation my daughter loves her 'app' that forces her to re-order numbers, letters, and phrases to receive a cartoon reward
00:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53150 @ 0.00039794 = 21.1505 BTC [+]
00:58 cazalla decimation, what's wrong with old fashioned blocks?
00:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1091 @ 0.00096053 = 1.0479 BTC [-] {7}
00:59 decimation cazalla: nothing, she plays with them too. they aren't as portable though
00:59 cazalla seems like a sure fire way to give your kid brain damage
01:00 decimation eh, kids are gonna have to learn to deal with the electronics one day
01:01 decimation I'm trying to teach her German, but it goes much better with a native speaker
01:01 cazalla my plan is to avoid that stuff with my son for as long as possible
01:01 mircea_popescu yeah, you want her to learn german, get her a german speaking dog/
01:01 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/komp.jpg << try on laptop.
01:01 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZtsG7 )
01:01 mircea_popescu like a shepherd or something.
01:01 decimation there was a class locally, but it was canceled for lack of interest
01:01 decimation lol
01:02 decimation actually, I would consider getting a german-speaking au pair
01:02 asciilifeform actual computer should be a -place-, not merely machine
01:02 asciilifeform like church organ.
01:02 mircea_popescu decimation bdsm site's this way -->
01:02 decimation turns out you don't have to pay them social security or payroll tax
01:03 decimation at any rate, that's all I have for the evening, good night
01:03 decimation !down decimation
01:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41550 @ 0.00039803 = 16.5381 BTC [+] {2}
01:09 mircea_popescu "One ought not to pay any attention to Hitler's recent line of talk about being the friend of the poor man, the enemy of plutocracy, etc etc. Hitler's real self is in MEIN KAMPF, and in his actions. He has never persecuted the rich, except when they were Jews or when they tried actively to oppose him. He stands for a centralised economy which robs the capitalist of most of his power but leaves the structure of society
01:09 mircea_popescu much as before. The State controls industry, but there are still rich and poor, masters and men."
01:09 mircea_popescu this guy was so fucking defeated...
01:10 asciilifeform l0l!
01:10 mircea_popescu it's incredible how defeated he was.
01:10 mircea_popescu it's like... not even coinceivable how defeated.
01:12 asciilifeform obligatory: http://www.pbfcomics.com/209
01:12 assbot The Perry Bible Fellowship ... ( http://bit.ly/16KAK93 )
01:14 mircea_popescu zebra penis!
01:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00038678 = 23.9417 BTC [-] {2}
01:15 asciilifeform zebrahitler (tm)
01:15 mircea_popescu this "people standing on magic carpets of the future" meme is so incomprehensible to me.
01:16 mircea_popescu do people really have such poor grasp of basic mechanics as to not understand that if you're not walking, there's really noi reason to be standing ?!
01:16 asciilifeform and before the 'stand-up desk' fashion, too
01:16 mircea_popescu the banal observation that three hour's walk is pleasant, but quarter hour's standing unpleasant not exactly with them ?!
01:17 asciilifeform oddly enough, there appears to be something to this
01:17 asciilifeform more of a 'bed of nails' thing though
01:17 mircea_popescu hm ?
01:17 asciilifeform when i'm in the machine shop, end up having to stand, and it tends to keep one awake
01:18 asciilifeform then again, perhaps it's the acute awareness of the sharp rotating bits
01:19 mircea_popescu lo
01:20 asciilifeform i'm told there are even treadmill desks
01:20 asciilifeform (whether the treadmill actually powers the computer - that ancient dream - i do not know)
01:23 mircea_popescu http://www11.kinghost.com/fetish/knapsack/images/bicm6973.jpg
01:23 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/16KDS4T )
01:23 asciilifeform lol!
01:23 asciilifeform stakecycle
01:24 asciilifeform looks like the diddler is rigged to reciprocate
01:25 asciilifeform who has not wondered, many times, about such machines
01:25 asciilifeform whether exist, and where
01:26 asciilifeform now we know - at least one.
01:26 mircea_popescu i've not wondered much, kinda discover the potentiality and the actuality in one package as it were.
01:26 asciilifeform ^ pictured unit yours ?
01:27 mircea_popescu http://www.holisticwisdom.com/the-fucking-chair.htm in the same vein
01:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/16KFb3I )
01:27 mircea_popescu ah no.
01:27 mircea_popescu http://www11.kinghost.com/fetish/knapsack/bicycle182-brut.html whole set if you're curious.
01:27 assbot Fucking bicycle ... ( http://bit.ly/16KFmMv )
01:28 asciilifeform neato.
01:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154000 @ 0.00039837 = 61.349 BTC [+]
01:32 asciilifeform ;;bc,stats
01:32 gribble Current Blocks: 342199 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 520 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44686087306.6 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.26987
01:32 asciilifeform 290291.
01:34 asciilifeform phillipsj is quite a joker.
01:34 asciilifeform 'January 2009 Completed The Insurance Premium Reduction Program at A and J Driving School.' on a cv !?!?
01:34 mircea_popescu it does sound rather like something you get convicted to, doesn't it.
01:36 asciilifeform the whole thing does
01:37 asciilifeform i'm still waiting to read a cv with entry 'xxxx-xxxx - hobo'
01:37 asciilifeform does engl. even have verb, 'to hobo' ?
01:37 asciilifeform бомжевать
01:38 mircea_popescu nevertheless, i imagine you see my point. what truly subtle meta-Agranov would come up with something like that ?
01:38 asciilifeform srsly
01:38 mircea_popescu the man's disarmingly plain.
01:45 mircea_popescu lol@ filthy orwell, going full throtle into "the country is weakened by the war, now is the time to socialism!11"
01:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72450 @ 0.00039847 = 28.8692 BTC [+] {2}
01:45 asciilifeform sorta did happen.
01:45 mircea_popescu it's strange, this unseemly ability of felons, to hide the substance of their felony. first of all from themselves, and even should they be blessed with remarkable observation powers.
01:45 asciilifeform dog barked - caravan moved.
01:45 mircea_popescu yeah, but that's indifferent.
01:46 mircea_popescu man can see what's wrong with socialism, but he can't see what's wrong with his own prose
01:46 asciilifeform t. dalrymple (retired british shrink, wrote a number of hilarious books on psychology of criminals - and civ. decay overally) had a thing on this
01:46 asciilifeform 'the knife went in, the gun went off'
01:46 asciilifeform somethingliekthat
01:47 asciilifeform testimonies full of animated, ambulatory weaponry
01:47 mircea_popescu lol
01:47 mircea_popescu i'd probably make a horrible judge, on the grounds that i'm generally inclined to let off everyone who kills purposefully.
01:47 mircea_popescu that, at least, i can understand.
01:48 mircea_popescu but none of this "accidental" talk if it is at all possible.
01:48 asciilifeform he has a passage almost entirely this.
01:48 mircea_popescu i guess i'd do okay as a lord with his own court in some marsh cca 1300, but otherwise...
01:49 asciilifeform http://www.city-journal.org/story.php?id=1371
01:49 assbot "The Knife Went In" by Theodore Dalrymple, City Journal Autumn 1994 ... ( http://bit.ly/16KJIDk )
01:49 mircea_popescu o hey.
01:49 * mircea_popescu reads
01:50 mircea_popescu "The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose and for someone else to pay when things go wrong."
01:50 mircea_popescu please is the word.
01:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00038584 = 9.9933 BTC [-] {2}
01:50 asciilifeform fella was a prison shrink.
01:51 mircea_popescu i had this girl... she was a psych grad. weighed about 50 kgs if dressed, and had spent three years as the prison shrink.
01:51 mircea_popescu about half the population there, rapists.
01:51 mircea_popescu the other half, murderers, arsonists, all sorts of truly pathological types.
01:52 mircea_popescu she had oodles of stories.
01:53 asciilifeform old prison hands generally do.
01:53 * asciilifeform must have at least half a book-case of 'prison lit'
01:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45950 @ 0.00038423 = 17.6554 BTC [-] {3}
01:54 mircea_popescu kinda what got my attention originally, i could read the girl's experienced, but it made little sense.
01:54 mircea_popescu then i figured out... vicariously!
01:56 asciilifeform at least, unlike the 'vicarious' engineering gurlz, she did not attempt to go and... apply
01:58 mircea_popescu heavens no.
01:58 mircea_popescu she didn't even attempt to write a book.
01:58 mircea_popescu very pleasant girl.
01:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 6000 @ 0.00094869 = 5.6921 BTC [-] {16}
01:58 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816556
01:58 assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 21:53:25; mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.
01:59 asciilifeform re: book.
02:01 asciilifeform 'Violent criminals often use an expression auxiliary to “My head went” when explaining their deeds: “It wasn’t me.” Here is the psychobabble of the slums, the doctrine of the “Real Me” as refracted through the lens of urban degradation. The Real Me has nothing to do with the phenomenal me, the me that snatches old ladies’ bags, breaks into other people’s houses, beats up my wife and children, or repeatedly dr
02:01 asciilifeform inks too much and gets involved in brawls. No, the Real Me is an immaculate conception, untouched by human conduct: it is that unassailable core of virtue that enables me to retain my self-respect whatever I do. What I am is not at all determined by what I do; and insofar as what I do has any moral significance at all, it is up to others to ensure that the phenomenal me acts in accordance with the Real Me.'
02:01 asciilifeform ^ see also TLP.
02:02 * asciilifeform used to suspect for a while, long ago, that herr dalrymple was tlp
02:02 mircea_popescu sounds like pretty typical infantilism.
02:02 mircea_popescu nah, this man is i think english.
02:02 asciilifeform mr d? yes
02:02 asciilifeform very english
02:04 mircea_popescu !up phillipsjk
02:04 mircea_popescu dja know how to up yourself ?
02:05 mircea_popescu cool.
02:08 asciilifeform (anyone who enjoyed 'the knife went in' can see a bunch more, http://www.city-journal.org/author_index.php?author=47 )
02:08 assbot City Journal Author Index ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxaJq6 )
02:08 asciilifeform ^ by no means his complete works
02:10 mircea_popescu For example, they do not say of the policemen who they allege (often plausibly) have beaten them up, “Poor cops! They were brought up in authoritarian homes and now project the anger that is really directed at their bullying fathers onto me. They need counseling. They need their heads sorted out.” On the contrary, they say, with force and explosive emotion, “The bastards!” They assume that the police act out of
02:10 mircea_popescu free, if malevolent, will.
02:11 mircea_popescu this is pretty good, and an excellent display of why the reconstructive approach is so powerful in talk psychotherapy, and discourse generally.
02:11 mircea_popescu "restate this about that, see how it sounds".
02:11 asciilifeform e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-02-2015#1007943
02:11 assbot Logged on 05-02-2015 06:31:43; asciilifeform: exercise for student: when you wake up, think of six entirely factually-correct - but disastrously intellectually-crippling - models for some commonplace thing or other.
02:12 mircea_popescu "can't figure it out when a mater of abstract objects ? that's fine, do it over but with cunts and fucking this time. see if the carefully evolved mamallian brain isn't more a help than a hindrance in matters it's actually evolved to handle!"
02:16 asciilifeform http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_1_otbie-john-kenneth-galbraith.html << herr d. on.. galbraith. mega-flame.
02:16 assbot The Galbraith Revival by Theodore Dalrymple, City Journal Winter 2010 ... ( http://bit.ly/16KPvZt )
02:16 asciilifeform (yes, the galbraith of 'the bezzle')
02:19 mircea_popescu "What, then, did I find to praise in Galbraith? In the first place, his personal example, which is encouraging for someone like me who has entered the later stages of his life. Galbraith wrote The Economics of Innocent Fraud when he was 96. That was the last of the approximately 50 books that he wrote, and he wrote them clearly, never giving the impression of wanting to be thought clever because of the difficulty of wh
02:19 mircea_popescu at he had to say."
02:19 phillipsjk so I read http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ , and have been having trouble parsing the math formula. I have figured out that 1.25TB (about 3 years from now) is approximately 35 squared.
02:19 assbot Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxbKym )
02:20 mircea_popescu this is impressive. imagine, men before public smoking was banned, living to be 96! and able to articulate themselves!
02:20 phillipsjk Not sure how you derived the exponential function for calculating the year 2020
02:20 mircea_popescu phillipsjk if every 170k blocks it increases 35 times, and there's 365 days to the year and 24 hours to the day and 6 blocks in a hour
02:21 mircea_popescu it then follows that the size at any arbitrary point in time is...
02:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95500 @ 0.00039891 = 38.0959 BTC [+]
02:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this thing's merciless huh
02:28 asciilifeform aha.
02:28 mircea_popescu i like a man who can use the text.
02:28 asciilifeform herr d. does not disappoint.
02:29 asciilifeform incidentally, one of his first (or perhaps first?) works is a description of a voyage he took, to visit the major capitals of the communist world
02:29 asciilifeform incl. (at the time) bucharest
02:31 mircea_popescu bucharest is and always was such a hellhole the likes of which no one has ever seen.
02:31 phillipsjk since the 1.25 factor represents the fist period: 3.23 years, the first number in the exponent must represent something like (n -3) years.. But 2009+6+3=2018.
02:31 mircea_popescu this was my own experience, both under the communists and after, and it was recorded in 1800 by travellers
02:31 mircea_popescu (it did not exist prior to about then)
02:31 mircea_popescu phillipsjk the deleted 2020 is more of a playful rethorical device
02:31 mircea_popescu don't get too hung up on it.
02:32 mircea_popescu the point is simply : "not so very long".
02:33 asciilifeform 'the wilder shores of marx'
02:33 asciilifeform ^ book
02:33 mircea_popescu this is mostly important because considering on one hand the uninformed low level arithmeticizing of reality prevalent in the esl world, and on the other the utter insanities passed for "graphs" on the forum, but also generally in the world - say that abject "cross model", people really need a little example of PROPER use of numbers.
02:33 phillipsjk So you are implicitly expecting the block-size will be much larger than 20MB sooner than we expect as well.
02:33 asciilifeform north kr, albania, ro, vietnam, cuba.
02:34 mircea_popescu phillipsjk i am not seriously lowering the discourse to gavin's insanities. a matter of principle is being discussed there, not the irrelevant gargle of whatever derp.
02:34 asciilifeform d. went to ro immediately before the magic xmas.
02:35 phillipsjk good point. Gavin's proposal is just that: a proposal.
02:35 mircea_popescu moreover, gavin is about as unfrequentable intellectually as quisling
02:37 phillipsjk I think that is the most subtle "Godwin" I have even seen. (had to look it up)
02:37 asciilifeform had to look up quisling ?!?!
02:37 * phillipsjk does not read enough books
02:37 mircea_popescu here you will have them forced upon you.
02:37 mircea_popescu i know i do.
02:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, i think one could scarcely have better political education than a tour of the warsaw pact in the late 80s.
02:40 mircea_popescu especially if one packed lots and lots and lots of jeans.
02:40 asciilifeform it worked.
02:40 asciilifeform not sure if he had the jeans (iirc, he went under the auspices of some medical society or other)
02:42 mircea_popescu as i point out in some romanian article, denim bras had i managed to import would have been gladly worn by those women half the current .ro calls mom.
02:42 phillipsjk I mentioned in PM that I assume the year 2010 refers to "mybitcoin" (found mention of it in a forum post Aug 17, 2010)
02:42 phillipsjk "Consider the alternative of mybitcoin.com. It is a client portable to any web browser. You could keep the account/password in your head instead of on a stick. If you want to transact with another mybitcoin account the transaction is immediate too."
02:43 phillipsjk much derp, to use the local parlance
02:43 asciilifeform whatever happened to that crapolade
02:43 mircea_popescu is this the first tihng that pulled a runner ?
02:43 asciilifeform 'web wallets'
02:43 phillipsjk yes
02:43 mircea_popescu right.
02:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform remember the burt wagner, pedophile / gay prostitute / showman with the camera in demo mode ?
02:44 asciilifeform aha
02:44 asciilifeform vaguely
02:44 mircea_popescu he massively pumped, and then claimed to have been victimized, by tha thing
02:44 mircea_popescu is how he disappeared.
02:45 midnightmagic "bruce" I think
02:45 midnightmagic where did he claim to be victimized?
02:45 phillipsjk no that is a different person.
02:45 midnightmagic oh
02:45 phillipsjk "From the desk of Tom Williams, operator of MyBitcoin.com"
02:46 phillipsjk https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34770.0
02:46 assbot Mybitcoin.com Press Release #2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxdTu3 )
02:46 midnightmagic that the one possibly traced to hackcanada.com?
02:46 mircea_popescu now i gotta check my facts, it's been years
02:47 mircea_popescu midnightmagic you're right, the name's bruce.
02:48 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVabnqRj_8I < for the curious.
02:48 assbot The Bitcoin Show - Episode 012 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kxe3Bt )
02:49 mircea_popescu the last episode of that thing figures prominently some hot shot kid that made a totally innovative super-great exchange
02:49 mircea_popescu that then "was hacked", but it's ok, because everyone's balance was just going to be frozen and "repaid over time"
02:49 mircea_popescu and then it went away
02:50 mircea_popescu i wish i could remember the idiot's name, he was a reddit star for a season or two.
02:51 mircea_popescu da fuck was his name, the hipster with the dumbass hat.
02:51 phillipsjk "Tom Williams" paid people half their Bitcoin and disappeared. Mybitocin.com had a private registration is some tropical island country.
02:54 phillipsjk Apparently Bruce is mentioned in the thread I linked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FZldY-ZBBE
02:54 assbot The Bitcoin Show - Episode 033 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxewDJ )
02:56 phillipsjk wow, an hour long video
03:03 phillipsjk 6:35: "..For example..Mt.Gox.. I have a bad feeling about them"
03:09 mircea_popescu !up guest_____
03:16 phillipsjk Is html allowed in comments on your blog?
03:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54380 @ 0.00039066 = 21.2441 BTC [-] {2}
03:32 phillipsjk I see a newbie got a "page topper" in Deathandtaxes's thread. (I was totally going to post a link) :)
03:34 phillipsjk ;;later tell mircea_popescu I enjoyed your latest blog post.
03:34 gribble The operation succeeded.
03:48 punkman http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/CCCamp_2007_Datenklo.jpg
03:48 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kmnm9c )
03:49 BingoBoingo Oh look at WP Matt derp about more things he has no idea about http://ma.tt/2015/02/real-nfl-scandal/
03:49 assbot Real NFL Scandal | Matt Mullenweg ... ( http://bit.ly/1KmnxBA )
03:50 BingoBoingo While also bending his "code art" into ways nothing on the web should be bent
~ 37 minutes ~
04:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34500 @ 0.00039988 = 13.7959 BTC [+]
04:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00040006 = 15.5423 BTC [+]
04:34 punkman http://litbimg.rightinthebox.com/desc_image/201407/gkdecb1405397886162.jpg that's a pretty small phone
04:34 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KmvJSi )
04:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40126 @ 0.00040006 = 16.0528 BTC [+]
~ 16 minutes ~
05:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.00040006 = 19.1229 BTC [+] {2}
~ 30 minutes ~
05:36 phillipsjk mircea_popescu: well, you may not believe this or like this, but... my banking depends on my gpg signature o.O < I wish the banks around here knew what GPG/PGP was. The card-holder agreements universally say: "You acknowledge that e-mail is not secure..."
05:37 cazalla phillipsjk, how about.. you must pick a password between 4-8 characters, may not contain symbols or capitalisation
05:39 phillipsjk that reminds me, I should complain about that. Symbols were required, but did not include ,|^= and at least one number was required.
05:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77350 @ 0.0004001 = 30.9477 BTC [+]
06:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133777 @ 0.00039838 = 53.2941 BTC [-] {3}
06:12 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.09001002 = 2.3403 BTC [-] {2}
06:16 punkman "There’s an increasing number of farmers placing greater value on acquiring older simpler machines that don’t require a computer to fix."
06:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97600 @ 0.0004001 = 39.0498 BTC [+]
~ 30 minutes ~
06:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60300 @ 0.00040081 = 24.1688 BTC [+] {2}
06:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84000 @ 0.00040094 = 33.679 BTC [+]
~ 19 minutes ~
07:17 punkman http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/05/gnupg_funding/
07:17 assbot Internet lobs $$$s at dev of crucial GPG tool after he runs short of cash • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1zf7ZHn )
07:19 kakobrekla >Stripe and Facebook are going to sponsor @gnupg development with $50k/year each.
07:19 kakobrekla oh my
07:19 kakobrekla a whole 50k
07:20 punkman he was living on $20k, $100k sounds fine
07:21 kakobrekla snapchat billions, gnupg a few k.
07:23 punkman geniuses are $60k a year, can't give him billion bezzlars
07:23 kakobrekla myea
~ 26 minutes ~
07:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00039894 = 13.6437 BTC [-]
~ 34 minutes ~
08:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00040094 = 9.402 BTC [+]
08:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70300 @ 0.00040114 = 28.2001 BTC [+] {3}
08:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68330 @ 0.00039865 = 27.2398 BTC [-] {2}
~ 23 minutes ~
09:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00096198 = 2.405 BTC [+] {3}
~ 28 minutes ~
09:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88250 @ 0.00039187 = 34.5825 BTC [-] {2}
09:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00039738 = 5.0467 BTC [+]
~ 28 minutes ~
10:04 thestringpuller ls
~ 30 minutes ~
10:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98500 @ 0.00039825 = 39.2276 BTC [+] {2}
10:37 mod6 morning :]
10:39 fluffypony http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/
10:39 assbot The Race to Replace Bitcoin | Observer ... ( http://bit.ly/18UpxDw )
10:46 mod6 fluffypony: ahh, yet another "genius" thinks he's going to replace bitcoin. *snore*
10:46 fluffypony "Mr. McCaleb also happened to be one of the world’s foremost cryptographers, arguably in a class with Alan Turing, the father of artificial intelligence and modern computing."
10:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54922 @ 0.00039949 = 21.9408 BTC [+]
10:53 mircea_popescu sigh
10:53 mircea_popescu fish wrappers nec ultra fish wrapping!
10:58 mircea_popescu ;;later tell phillipsjk: Is html allowed in comments on your blog? << some limited html. blockquote, a and i dun recall what else.
10:58 gribble The operation succeeded.
10:59 mircea_popescu punkman: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/CCCamp_2007_Datenklo.jpg << so basically, the only reason these adolescent boys have gathered there is to have a good pretext for not washing.
10:59 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/18UsTX5 )
11:00 mircea_popescu phillipsjk: [...] < I wish the banks around here knew what GPG/PGP was. << it's because i don't use actual banks, but the well developed argentine underground system.
11:01 mircea_popescu kakobrekla: >Stripe and Facebook are going to sponsor @gnupg development with $50k/year each. << the only important point in the ruckus being, now we know gpg 1.x is perfectly fine and 2.x not entirely broken, and that there's absolutely no need to expect usable 3.x
11:01 mircea_popescu at least we know where we're standing : what we got scares them. we'll fork it later on an' be quite happy.
11:02 mircea_popescu but yes, the snapchat comparison is QUITE shameful.
11:02 mircea_popescu fluffypony: http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/ << check it out asciilifeform someone's butthurt over gavin getting shot in the head.
11:02 assbot The Race to Replace Bitcoin | Observer ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ky8SBs )
11:02 mircea_popescu someone who was stupid enough to ignore the warnings, for that matter. o, it's not his fault, "nobody could have foreseen".
11:04 mod6 30 out of 40 people say gox & ripple guy is mega-genius and in same class with Turing!!11
11:04 mircea_popescu " The most exciting battle in this long war is taking place in San Francisco, and the town isn’t big enough for both Ripple Labs and Stellar, two of the contenders hoping to replace not just Bitcoin but the almighty dollar."
11:05 mircea_popescu lol.
11:05 mod6 haha
11:05 mod6 this is what i need every morning. a good dose of solid lulz.
11:05 mircea_popescu but even better, 1st comment : ""Vinnie Falco · Top Commenter · Software Engineer at Ripple Labs
11:05 mircea_popescu Now this is some serious investigative journalism. I even learned a few things!
11:05 mircea_popescu i mean, if you remember this schmuck, he's the "mr bigg" shill mpoe-pr unmasked on the forum.
11:06 mod6 srs "journalism"
11:06 mircea_popescu he is now somehow a "software engineer" - heck, if randi could do it ?
11:06 mod6 lol mr bigg
11:06 mircea_popescu and he is learning about his company from obscure $300 an article trade rags.
11:07 mircea_popescu imagine that you know, if you had to run boeing with some engineers that went "oh, boeing makes planes actually ? gee i had no idea ty for clarifying"
11:07 mircea_popescu "im a chewing gum aeropropulsion engineer."
11:08 mircea_popescu fluffypony in case it wasn't somehow apparent, "someone" doth not mean you. it doth mean the still unidentified publicly person in charge of handling teh bitcoin problem.
11:12 mircea_popescu in other news, "Warrior Forum8:03 am 54 KiBHow to reach the REALLY rich? - Warrior Forum"
11:12 mircea_popescu gee whiz, i dunno. joining some retards forum, i'm sure o.O
11:15 fluffypony lol
11:15 fluffypony warrior forum never ceases to amuse
11:15 mircea_popescu ever since the flaming idiots of get a freelancer bought it, it's seriously improved
11:15 mircea_popescu comedy-wise.
11:15 fluffypony lol
11:16 mircea_popescu come to think about it : http://girls.twistys.com/preview/totm/12-2014/p01/p/13.jpg << there's a whoile brand of this sort of idiot in ther wild.
11:16 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/18UvWyy )
11:17 mircea_popescu twisty's is a fine example : how to make atrociously bad porn out of ingredients found commonly in any porn studio.
11:17 mircea_popescu it's as if there's a race of humans that is really, REALLY bad at anything they do.
11:17 mircea_popescu because in any line there exists this company, which is extremely bad, almost as if it's self-parodic level bad.
11:18 mircea_popescu truly atrocious sort of incomprehensible and unexplainable "you have to be there" sort of bad.
11:20 mircea_popescu unrelatedly, in terms of the bezzel world, this is an excellent entry : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenklo
11:20 assbot Datenklo – Wikipedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1KybteH )
11:21 mircea_popescu so this article discusses the famous ccc modem. at the time, germans being insane as today, it was illegal to own a modem, and you had to rent the state company ones, which were incredibly expensive.
11:21 mircea_popescu expensive enough to get people to where they'd root for copies of teh hacker bible, and then build a modem out of repurposed materials by hand.
11:22 mircea_popescu and now, the meat and potatoes : ". Modems waren damals in Deutschland noch verboten, mit Ausnahme der teuren Mietgeräte der Bundespost. Anfang 1987 betrug die monatliche Gebühr für ein BTX-MultiTel 1 48 DM (nach heutiger Kaufkraft 40 €) und für ein MultiTel 2 78 DM (nach heutiger Kaufkraft 66 €)"
11:22 mircea_popescu ie, it cost 48 Deutsche Mark, which "at today's values" would be 40 euros.
11:23 mircea_popescu well fuck me sally, if they truly cost 40 euros at today's values then what the fuck's the problem, that's what internet costs today. what is wrong with these people ?
11:23 mircea_popescu obviously nothing's wrong with the people, but plenty's wrong wit hthe "present values" equation, seeing how in 1985 ie 30 years ago it made perfect sense to spend a week and cut out pipes and whatnot to save "the equivalent of 40 euros".
11:24 mircea_popescu more like 400, but then you'd have to explain 1k% inflation in 30 years,
11:24 mircea_popescu ;;calc 10**(1/30)
11:24 gribble 1.07977516233
11:24 mircea_popescu ie 8% anually, which you don't really wish to do.
11:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64300 @ 0.00040158 = 25.8216 BTC [+] {2}
11:27 mircea_popescu and in even other-er news, http://www.romania-insider.com/romanian-models-detained-in-prostitution-case/141548/
11:27 assbot Romanian models detained in prostitution case | Romania-Insider.com ... ( http://bit.ly/18UxBnG )
11:28 mircea_popescu that's right, i come from a country where you USED to have to be cool to be able to fuck most of the starlets on tv (prhaps with the show playing in the background, if so inclined). nowadays any schmuck with a coupla bitcoin can do it.
11:32 chetty and you had to rent the state company ones// coming soon to us, internet public utility will make it so
11:33 mircea_popescu quite.
11:33 mircea_popescu it's really funny how the politics of this worked out : 1) buncha companies, unregulated market, bring the thing into existence.
11:33 mircea_popescu 2) client companies of the state wish to be important. the market tells them to stuff it
11:34 mircea_popescu 3) government steps in, sweeps the whole thing under itself, since 2 failed.
11:34 mircea_popescu net result ? a frail, broken, centralized item to take place of the vibrant original and slowly decay. it's "just as good',
11:34 mircea_popescu exactly in the manner 40 euros are "just as good" as 48 DM
11:35 mircea_popescu either way, the only thing a functioning market can expect is attack, either by government agencies masquerading as companies, or else by government agencies actually admitting their government affiliation.
11:35 mircea_popescu in either case, what can't be had in the socialist state is free market.
11:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72600 @ 0.00040167 = 29.1612 BTC [+]
11:46 mircea_popescu "[Note: It is interesting to notice that Mr Kennedy, USA Ambassador in London, remarked on his return to New York in October 1940 that as a result of the war "democracy is finished". By "democracy", of course, he meant private capitalism. (Author's footnote.)]"
11:47 mircea_popescu lmao. no, you dumb fucking schmuck. he didn't mean what unrelated term you wish he had meant. he meant what he said : the ridiculous notion that random people may speak on random questions.
11:48 mircea_popescu "she said get lost and if i never see you again it'll be soon enough. by get lost, of course, she meant let's snuggle and by never she meant she loves me!11"
11:48 mircea_popescu fucking psychotic logic.
~ 49 minutes ~
12:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9961 @ 0.00039988 = 3.9832 BTC [-]
12:44 TheNewDeal ;;Nethash
12:44 gribble 326145878.624
12:45 TheNewDeal ;;Bc,stats
12:45 gribble Current Blocks: 342275 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 444 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 15 hours, 3 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44694430246.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.29009
~ 35 minutes ~
13:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9142 @ 0.00039667 = 3.6264 BTC [-] {2}
13:28 danielpbarron i got 2nd pogo running; it's using my own compiled bitcoind (porta tronic non bastard) and it's successfully pulling blocks from my other pogo (running ascii's porta-tronic bastard)
13:28 danielpbarron the 2nd one has 2 gigs of swap space
13:32 danielpbarron weird, it hung up for a few minutes on block 3000
13:32 danielpbarron but now it appears to be chugging along
13:32 danielpbarron and again on 3500 ?
13:33 danielpbarron gonna get lunch; will check in later
13:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128787 @ 0.00040195 = 51.7659 BTC [+] {2}
~ 18 minutes ~
13:58 mod6 thanks for the updates danielpbarron
14:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32405 @ 0.00040276 = 13.0514 BTC [+]
14:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00040361 = 11.1396 BTC [+]
14:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66398 @ 0.00040405 = 26.8281 BTC [+] {2}
14:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1600 @ 0.00096189 = 1.539 BTC [-] {2}
14:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 2) client companies of the state wish to be important. the market tells them to stuff it 3) government steps in... <<< see also the famous example of syntex corp. in mexico (carl djerassi!) - first mass-production of synthetic progestins, then nationalized, then gone - 'bad luck!'
14:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: Modems waren damals in Deutschland noch verboten, mit Ausnahme der teuren Mietgeräte der Bundespost << this was SOP in the national telco monopolies of that period; most famously, in usa, where all line equipment, incl. handsets, was considered property of bell co.
14:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: phun phact: there are still a few hundred thousand idiots renting landline handsets in usa from lucent (who inherited that subdivision)
14:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865555052/Bad-call-Seniors-paying-thousands-to-lease-home-phones.html?pg=all
14:49 assbot Bad call: Seniors paying thousands to lease home phones | Deseret News ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBQvw3 )
14:49 asciilifeform and dollars to doughnuts, some forgotten government office somewhere is still renting a modem.
14:50 asciilifeform http://www.qltcls.com/products/corded-phones << mindfuck. they still take new customers.
14:50 assbot Corded Phones | QLT Consumer Lease Services, Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBQR5K )
14:54 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: engine where the piston was really just a magnet-bearing shuttle zipping back and forth through coils << i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge - much time and sore muscle spent in changing direction. but this would work beautifully for a liquid-piston stirling engine (see last night's thread).
14:54 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: conductive liquid, naturally
14:56 dignork http://www.qltcls.com/products/corded-phones << rotary phones!
14:56 assbot Corded Phones | QLT Consumer Lease Services, Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBRFrj )
14:56 asciilifeform dignork: it is largely for ^ that american telcos still support 'pulse dialing'
14:57 trinque an observation: the latency of the credit card networks is measured in days
14:57 asciilifeform trinque: where?! in zimbabwe ?
14:58 punkman i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge << I once took a design class where this was a case study of "innovation" and "green"
14:58 asciilifeform trinque: or were you thinking of the lag from purchase to bank statement ?
14:58 trinque asciilifeform: the merchant gets their money in days in the US
14:58 trinque asciilifeform: corrrect
14:58 asciilifeform aha.
14:58 asciilifeform the folks who count (tm) get it immediately
14:58 asciilifeform hence, from their pov - no delay.
14:58 trinque asciilifeform: even that's more a temporary loan right?
14:58 trinque but I guess if we're talking "effectively" sure
14:59 trinque thought was this claim that bitcoin as-is is slow is complete bullshit
14:59 trinque it's the fastest payment system I'm aware of when you consider the whole process
14:59 asciilifeform punkman: flashlight... was a case study of "innovation" and "green" << the meat puppets responsible should be condemned to spend the rest of their days in oubliette, with only nyt to read, lit only by that flashlight.
15:01 punkman I gotta dig up that textbook, many lolz to be had
15:01 trinque +asciilifeform | the folks who count (tm) get it immediately << dunno that this is so, isn't "settlement" a thing to allow for reversals, etc?
15:01 asciilifeform reversals get taken straight from the merchant's account.
15:01 punkman plus chargeback fee ^
15:02 punkman on that note, here is a gem https://ensafer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/bg-app-showcase-adjusted.jpg
15:02 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBSFvJ )
15:03 trinque even seven figure processing accounts I've seen take days to hit a bank account, or at least the next day
15:05 trinque punkman: lol wow the future of p2p payments
15:05 punkman it's a "secure" messaging app
15:05 punkman I never thought of this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9KqynNIUAEj87i.jpg
15:05 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KyHTpa )
15:07 asciilifeform punkman: odd. i know of no car recent enough to come with a remote button, that doesn't beep/flash when locked/unlocked
15:07 punkman people forget
15:07 asciilifeform for some reason they never seen to forget to put on pants when walking out the door
15:09 punkman I left my bike unlocked for three days, noticed today
15:11 PeterL My wife's bike was once stolen out of our garage ... whoever took it left their bike sitting in our yard. It was the weirdest thing.
15:11 asciilifeform bike laundry.
15:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26050 @ 0.00040434 = 10.5331 BTC [+]
15:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41249 @ 0.00040434 = 16.6786 BTC [+]
~ 16 minutes ~
15:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00040434 = 9.9468 BTC [+]
15:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00040434 = 13.788 BTC [+]
16:10 danielpbarron https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain_download#Large_Catchup_Case << i think this is why it gets stuck every 500 blocks
16:10 assbot Block chain download - Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1C1Xzgc )
16:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26950 @ 0.00040434 = 10.897 BTC [+]
16:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90708 @ 0.00039982 = 36.2669 BTC [-] {2}
~ 15 minutes ~
16:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46950 @ 0.00039627 = 18.6049 BTC [-]
16:38 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/02/amazon-exits-crimea/
16:38 assbot Amazon Exits Crimea | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1C227TU )
16:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00039627 = 9.986 BTC [-]
16:56 danielpbarron when i turn off my 1st pogo and let the 2nd talk to the rest of the network, it doesn't hang up on every 500th block; i guess there is some config variable that limits how many blocks to send to one peer per session?
16:58 danielpbarron at height=27000 the memory is at like 70% used, no swap
17:02 thestringpuller danielpbarron: what version of Bitcoin are you running?
17:04 danielpbarron the official one
17:04 mod6 it's the portotronic version v0.5.3.2 right?
17:04 danielpbarron it's with all the patches up to porta-tronic
17:05 danielpbarron so everything on the homepage of thebitcoin.foundation + porta-tronic
17:05 danielpbarron you can see exactly how i built it here http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-build.sh.txt
17:05 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1EMJlGe )
17:07 danielpbarron might be errors if you run that though; i haven't tested it since i cleaned it up to look nice
17:07 mod6 ah, my mistake. ascii numbered the "Orphanage Burner" as v0.5.3.2
17:07 danielpbarron oh hm
17:07 danielpbarron maybe that's why
17:07 danielpbarron the pogo with the longer chain is running the burner
17:07 danielpbarron lemme try without that
17:13 BingoBoingo http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/05/us/missouri-fake-kidnapping/index.html
17:13 assbot Police: 6-year-old boy 'kidnapped' for being too nice to strangers - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1C5EbkQ )
17:14 trinque BingoBoingo: they didn't sterilize the 4; doing it wrong
17:15 danielpbarron how can a mom get arrested for kidnapping her own son? was the dad not in on it or something?
17:15 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: Looks like he wasn't
17:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72866 @ 0.0004035 = 29.4014 BTC [+] {2}
17:18 danielpbarron looks like it's still stopping after 500 blocks even without the orphan burning
17:22 the_scourge !s "orphanage burner"
17:22 assbot 6 results for '"orphanage burner"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22orphanage+burner%22
17:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51250 @ 0.00039324 = 20.1536 BTC [-] {3}
17:25 the_scourge asciilifeform: i take it the reference is to the 'hopelessly out of order' meaning, not the traditional definition?
17:27 danielpbarron it's supposed to dump the orphan blocks stored in memory to keep the pogoplug from crashing
17:28 danielpbarron except it's a dirty hack, and the pogo crashes anyway
17:31 the_scourge oh ok
17:33 the_scourge what's the cheapest device that has usb 3.0? one can get super cheap USB keys on amazon, that would solve the problem
17:33 danielpbarron the_scourge, have you been told to read the log yet?
17:35 danielpbarron watching SetBestChain: new best= scroll by is oddly soothing
17:37 danielpbarron ;;tslb
17:37 gribble Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
17:41 danielpbarron height=49141 and i'm getting lots of orphan spam, swap space is getting used now
17:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00040434 = 26.8886 BTC [+]
17:42 danielpbarron ah weird, it's still only going up in chunks of 500
17:44 danielpbarron going back to connecting directly to my 1st pogo in that case
17:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80092 @ 0.00040445 = 32.3932 BTC [+] {3}
17:46 the_scourge mircea_popescu: where did you get the idea for mpoe?
17:48 danielpbarron ok and now it's getting more than 500 at a time connected directly to eachother.. wtf
17:51 the_scourge danielpbarron: which block did it change behavior?
17:52 danielpbarron !gettrust the_scourge
17:52 assbot Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user the_scourge: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/danielpbarron/the_scourge | http://w.b-a.link/user/the_scourge
17:52 danielpbarron around the one that i posted above ^
17:56 danielpbarron hm, and now the 1st pogo (longer chain) is stuck while the 2nd pulls from it
17:56 danielpbarron i'm ok with that if it's just until the 2nd catches up
18:03 asciilifeform danielpbarron: of course it will crash. esp. if you built it with max=750 (as in the patch) but with 250 likewise
18:03 asciilifeform still guzzles ram
18:04 danielpbarron here is something strange: when i sent "getinfo" to the longer stuck node, it stapped out of it and started recieving new blocks again
18:04 asciilifeform what is really needed is the experiment suggested by mircea_popescu (or was it davout?) where difficulty-outlier blocks are shot on sight
18:05 danielpbarron and simultaneously the shorter unstuck node, stopped getting new blocks
18:05 asciilifeform the phoundation backport crap needs to go
18:05 asciilifeform ;;bc,stats
18:05 gribble Current Blocks: 342317 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 402 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 8 hours, 45 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44872170693.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.72073
18:05 asciilifeform and,
18:06 asciilifeform 300539.
18:06 danielpbarron how are you so far ahead :p
18:06 asciilifeform recall, this wasn't a pogo
18:06 asciilifeform but a generic x86.
18:06 danielpbarron my 0.7.2 node took 2 or 3 weeks to full sync
18:07 asciilifeform on what? modem made from dead squirrel?
18:07 danielpbarron standard home cable
18:07 asciilifeform this one is on 100mb fiber
18:08 asciilifeform but otherwise unsurprising, this is the fifth day
18:08 danielpbarron i didn't think bandwidth was the bottleneck
18:08 asciilifeform luck is the main bottleneck
18:08 danielpbarron i recall it taking just as long when i used bootstrap.dat
18:08 asciilifeform recall how sync is from one peer at a time
18:21 cazalla http://qntra.net/2015/02/tour-of-a-chinese-bitcoin-mine/
18:21 assbot Tour Of A Chinese Bitcoin Mine | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1zXzLiz )
18:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.10374042 = 2.0748 BTC [+] {7}
18:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00040506 = 8.7088 BTC [+]
18:30 asciilifeform cazalla: interestingly, two faces at the ~6'26'' mark are censored out
18:31 asciilifeform (and similarly, later in)
18:31 asciilifeform http://youtu.be/K8kua5B5K3I?t=6m46s << run moar winblows! (tm)
18:31 assbot Life Inside a Secret Chinese Bitcoin Mine - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOjMRq )
18:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1151 @ 0.0009619 = 1.1071 BTC [+] {3}
18:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80100 @ 0.00040512 = 32.4501 BTC [+] {2}
18:39 asciilifeform and, lol! why 'secret chinese bitcoin mine'? what is the secret ?
18:39 mircea_popescu isn;tthat old ?
18:40 asciilifeform new.
18:40 BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/nickdepetrillo/status/563782000058695682
18:40 assbot Welcome to the future: Philips HUE iOS app crashes and they pulled the app. I can't control my lights anymore. Send help.
18:40 mircea_popescu http://www.infowars.com/economist-new-bill-turns-tsa-into-tax-police/
18:40 assbot » Economist: New Bill Turns TSA Into Tax Police Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOlrGA )
18:40 mircea_popescu and the noose ever narrows.
18:43 asciilifeform the noose appears to be about the same width as previously (post-'01)
18:44 asciilifeform (for non-u.s. folks: for many years, the guards have been running names through 'wanted' lists when you walk in or out of usa)
18:46 asciilifeform 'Keeping gold in a safe deposit box is money laundering carrying up to 25 years in prison.' << fiction. (though 'deposit boxes' remain a hilarious scam. see old thread, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-10-2014#875487 )
18:46 assbot Logged on 15-10-2014 17:38:27; assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 16:11:44; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
18:46 cazalla asciilifeform, prob the real owner and it's a staff member being interviewed instead
18:47 mircea_popescu punkman:
18:47 mircea_popescu i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge << I once took a design class where this was a case study of "innovation" and "green" << as it should be. if i recall correctly the russian name is "labour & light"
18:47 cazalla mircea_popescu, it's old as in there was a photo of the psu dump out last year and it was filmed last year but new as in full clip released today
18:47 mircea_popescu a ok
18:48 mircea_popescu the all union vladimir obama pioneers will certainly enjoy the eco lantern.
18:48 asciilifeform лампочка ильича!
18:49 mircea_popescu Всегда готов!
18:49 mircea_popescu lampushka iliusha hahaha
18:49 mircea_popescu o god that sounds lulzy.
18:50 asciilifeform incidentally, this phrase has been resurrected and now fondly refers to the (increasingly rare) traditional incandescent bulb
18:50 mircea_popescu aww
18:50 asciilifeform specifically vs. modern chimeras
18:50 mircea_popescu trinque: asciilifeform: the merchant gets their money in days in the US << noob. it's date+60.
18:50 asciilifeform for n00bs: illych's [lenin's] lightbulb
18:50 mircea_popescu days, sure, in the sense bitcoin txn confirm "in seconds"
18:51 trinque mircea_popescu: right, I was saying the "visa is so speed" argument is bullshit
18:51 mircea_popescu utterly bs.
18:51 mircea_popescu but then again, bringing arguments to people who never had any sort of life experience is not unlike trying to give serpents haircuts.
18:52 mircea_popescu always ends at step 1) grow some hair.
18:52 * asciilifeform was buying lightbulbs not long ago, and did a double-take when saw a line of specifically 'retro' bulbs, claiming to be 'precisely like those of edison's time' - and at least were genuine in costing 10x what one normally expects, and putting out 1/5th the light
18:52 asciilifeform (also had the requisite rought-blown shape and the multiple filaments)
18:54 mircea_popescu multiple fillaments ?
18:54 asciilifeform http://www.industry-home.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Edison-Bulb-30-Watt.jpg
18:54 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnOnY2 )
18:56 mircea_popescu oh i had some of them on display
18:56 asciilifeform aha i recall
19:00 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo so is the "fake kidnapped kid" story the result of "boy telling school what happened"
19:00 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Indeed.
19:00 mircea_popescu or is it the result of phone interception -> police telling school to ask kid -> kid not denying convincingly
19:00 asciilifeform http://vocore.io/wiki/index << wants to be a node.
19:00 assbot VoCore | A coin-sized Linux computer with wifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnPbMx )
19:01 asciilifeform ^ 32MB. and fuck, that ought to be enough for a bitcoin node
19:01 mircea_popescu it ought.
19:01 asciilifeform chinese mips.
19:02 asciilifeform http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/04/28/15-asiarf-awm002-awm003-wi-fi-modules-run-openwrt-expose-gpios << similar, but more mass-produced
19:02 assbot $15 AsiaRF AWM002 & AWM003 Wi-Fi Modules Run OpenWRT, Expose GPIOs ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnPrLq )
19:03 mircea_popescu danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node took 2 or 3 weeks to full sync << no he's right, it's what it used to be.
19:03 * asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons
19:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what happens if you short the antenna of a wifi device ?
19:03 mircea_popescu fixed ?
19:04 asciilifeform you don't actually have to open & mutilate, just don't include it in kernel
19:04 asciilifeform node is not a reactor, if thing sits on bus and listens for doomsday signal from enemy, it'll do what?
19:04 mircea_popescu no, no
19:05 mircea_popescu if it has any magic packet business, it'll come wiereless.
19:05 asciilifeform then pull the internal antenna
19:05 mircea_popescu short all the things!
19:05 BingoBoingo * asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons << There's probably a role somewhere for a kind of node with it. Plugged in at "Free Wifi" coffee shop or library. connects to open network, changes MAC address when booted from network. Has script to handled shrink wrap license pages when encountered.
19:05 asciilifeform how it will behave shorted will depend on whether designer bothered with safety
19:06 asciilifeform experiment.
19:07 asciilifeform wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study
19:07 asciilifeform and ideally you'd want one that doesn't dma
19:07 mircea_popescu writing a proper wifi thing for the new world is not on this year's plate.
19:07 asciilifeform aha.
19:08 mircea_popescu great tech, in principle.
19:08 asciilifeform except the obvious pill is to forget the 802.11 crap and use straight sdr
19:09 asciilifeform ignoring 'spectrum property' and spread/hopping far and wide, as modern mil. radios do.
19:11 mircea_popescu yup
19:11 mircea_popescu exactly that. a pointed disdain of any rule and regulation not gpg signed as so much crud.
19:13 mircea_popescu !up HlySht
19:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39243 @ 0.00040527 = 15.904 BTC [+]
19:17 the_scourge asciilifeform: that vocore was just crowdfunded recently. i think they fullfilled initial orders sometime in the past year. i didn't know they were mips!!
19:18 asciilifeform RT5350.
19:20 the_scourge uh that's a wireless chip? i thought we're talking about cpu. i.e. mips
19:21 asciilifeform https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Ralink_RT5350
19:21 assbot Ralink RT5350 - WikiDevi ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnSR0J )
19:21 asciilifeform it's one of those all-in-one soc things.
19:21 the_scourge >wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study < as long as cryptography is secure, then it's not urgent. but very interesting
19:22 the_scourge asciilifeform++ thanks, very interesting bit of kit
19:23 asciilifeform the_scourge: wai, wat?! if secure crypto were unknown, it then would be more urgent?
19:25 the_scourge um if we had no way to secure comms on the wild internet, where layers 1-4 can be listened to by demotists (i wouldn't mind if it was a monarch),
19:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151800 @ 0.00040542 = 61.5428 BTC [+] {3}
19:26 the_scourge then the only alternative would be meshes
19:26 asciilifeform the_scourge: but wireless links between streets would then be secure ?
19:26 the_scourge and WoT to eject untrustworthy nodes
19:26 the_scourge if it's los, yes
19:26 the_scourge my guns are all los too
19:26 asciilifeform secure los exists only in vacuum
19:27 the_scourge :) funny how that works
19:27 asciilifeform and not in the vacuum of space, either - there are loose H2 atoms bouncing there
19:27 asciilifeform might reflect.
19:27 the_scourge meh
19:28 mircea_popescu i wonder if one could kickstart an experimental vehicle for space vacuum filtration to extract gold and other rare metals.
19:28 the_scourge thats and acceptable threat model considering there are HUMANS involved that can fuck up and give away the keys to te kingdom
19:28 asciilifeform from low orbit usg junk ?
19:28 mircea_popescu just talk around the math involved, hire the people out of work once gavin gets forgotten about.
19:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, from cranial junk
19:29 asciilifeform l0l
19:29 asciilifeform from cranial junk - can extract anything at all.
19:29 asciilifeform even unobtainium.
19:32 the_scourge http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69 < this summarizes nicely every smoke break rant i had at the junior devs onsite today
19:32 assbot Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnUThj )
19:33 mircea_popescu on site of what ?
19:33 * the_scourge has been desperately trying to avoid learning scheme/Qi for years, fearing never being able to hold a 'productive' contract again
19:33 the_scourge mircea_popescu: client site
19:33 the_scourge the one that got ddos'd
19:33 mircea_popescu client provides its own devs ?
19:33 the_scourge there are hundreds
19:34 the_scourge the team working for me has maybe a dozen and then a massive team in manila that another contractor manages. it's ... depressing
19:35 the_scourge asciilifeform: you know that mark tarver guy you linked to, are you familiar with his Qi and Chen languages?
19:35 asciilifeform yes.
19:35 asciilifeform wasn't impressed.
19:35 the_scourge if Qi is anything like nix, i would love it forever
19:36 the_scourge anywhere i can go to get some honest opinions on his work then?
19:36 asciilifeform iirc tarver eventually gave up and went off to hell knows where.
19:36 asciilifeform the_scourge: there was, at least in the past, a 'google groups' thing for it.
19:36 the_scourge :( he's just on a downer!
19:36 asciilifeform may still be there.
19:36 the_scourge no, i want critics, not fanboys
19:37 the_scourge did you do a writeup? i've grepped for such to no avail :(
19:37 asciilifeform did not.
19:37 asciilifeform did not find it interesting enough to bother with a writeup.
19:37 * asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages a la prolog where the operator has no possible way of having the faintest clue what an operation will cost
19:38 the_scourge right but that's only tru of Qi, not Shen
19:39 asciilifeform shen had pattern-matching.
19:39 * the_scourge wonders if a 'pattern matching' language could even be a functional language
19:39 asciilifeform and even a built-in prolog!
19:40 asciilifeform just about everything pushed as 'pure functional' (haskell, standard ml, etc.) to a large extent operate via pattern matching
19:40 the_scourge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_(programming_language) < "an integrated fully functional Prolog" hrm you're right about the latter
19:40 assbot Shen (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnWkfM )
19:40 asciilifeform don't take my word for this, look at how they are implemented
19:41 * the_scourge learned nix over christmas and thought about learning haskell
19:41 the_scourge i'll have to look at the haskell implementation
19:41 danielpbarron here's a rough draft of pogo instructions: http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-howto.txt / criticisms welcomed!
19:41 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnWB2c )
19:41 the_scourge although a few things came up when i started looking into it that turned me off haskell
19:42 asciilifeform the tell-tale symptom of a programming language that does far too much behind the scenes is when its users seldom, if ever, study the implementation
19:43 asciilifeform writing a (demented but functional) c compiler and (very old-fashioned, to the point of braindamage) lisp interp. used to be standard homework assignments
19:43 the_scourge is perl a pretty good example of what you mean?
19:43 asciilifeform one such
19:44 asciilifeform danielpbarron: this gives you a rather heavyweight linux - with systemd, even.
19:44 asciilifeform danielpbarron: eventual goal, i dare say, is a fully-automated reflasher that drops in something sane.
19:44 danielpbarron yeh i'd like to use something other than arch but that's what i've figured out for now
19:44 the_scourge asciilifeform: would https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_in_Small_Pieces be a good place to start with such excercises?
19:44 assbot Lisp in Small Pieces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnX3xo )
19:44 asciilifeform 'buildroot' is the ticket
19:44 asciilifeform the_scourge: christian quinniec's book?
19:44 danielpbarron yeah the instructions at this point are only for advanced users :/
19:44 the_scourge asciilifeform: yes
19:45 asciilifeform heavy but very enlightening work.
19:45 danielpbarron oh man is it!
19:45 danielpbarron <3 gentoo
19:45 the_scourge danielpbarron: nixos has a pretty good balance of minimal and predictable (even for noobs), have you considered that?
19:45 danielpbarron i get the feeling they intentionally leave things out of their guides to force the user to figure it out
19:46 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> danielpbarron: eventual goal, i dare say, is a fully-automated reflasher that drops in something sane. << quite
19:46 asciilifeform the_scourge: 'NixOS 14.12 “Caterpillar” has been released, the third stable release branch. It brings Linux 3.14, systemd 217, Glibc 2.20, KDE 4.14.1, and much more.'
19:46 asciilifeform the_scourge: trololol!
19:46 mircea_popescu in any case purge that systemd atrocity , as a matter of principle if not necessarily practicality.
19:46 asciilifeform danielpbarron has probably noticed that pieces of 'systemd' crash every few hrs. on that box
19:47 danielpbarron i've noticed that it needs constant supervision, yes
19:47 mircea_popescu it's only to make use of the "much faster boot"
19:47 the_scourge asciilifeform: if you're implying it's not lightweight, only systemd and the kernel are installed off the bat. and some guys have done work on a systemdless setup
19:47 asciilifeform at any rate, it pretty much has to be a 'buildroot' script in the end. so as everything ends up in a ro-mountable flash image.
19:47 mircea_popescu how is poettering to sell a shitty re-implementation of yarvin's pile of crap ? PROCLAIM LOUDLY THAT IT BOOTS FASTLY.
19:48 asciilifeform the_scourge: we are discussing an embedded system with 128m each of ram and eeprom.
19:48 mircea_popescu notwithstanding that a) not really and b) a machine's not really supposed to boot anyway
19:48 danielpbarron i don't care how fast it boot since it shouldn't have to do that more than once (depending on the stability of your electric)
19:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what was the curtis yarvin brand of systemd called ? i forget ?
19:48 mircea_popescu quux ?
19:49 asciilifeform mr mold did not, last i heard, ever publish anything analogous to systemd
19:49 mircea_popescu urbit
19:49 mircea_popescu o ya ? what's urbit ?
19:49 asciilifeform had a perverse functional-programming master's thesis disguised as an open source project, yes
19:50 asciilifeform urbit.
19:50 the_scourge urbit is yarvin's thing
19:50 mircea_popescu https://www.popehat.com/2013/12/06/nock-hoon-etc-for-non-vulcans-why-urbit-matters/ << lulzy vintage.
19:50 asciilifeform (for n00bz: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390 )
19:50 assbot Loper OS » Of Decaying Urbits. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnXY0T )
19:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform indulge me : tries to take over everything ? check. crashes all the time ? check. two matches, good enough.
19:50 * asciilifeform followed project for a while before it was publicly advertised
19:51 mircea_popescu this is even skipping the "ambitious nobody proponent with a history of failure up to that point"
19:51 asciilifeform it actually has a closer resemblance to the perverse programming languages discussed earlier in this thread, than to systemd
19:51 mircea_popescu i would imagine alsa is uncontroversially a massive failure on poettering's scoreboard.
19:51 asciilifeform alsa almost works.
19:52 mircea_popescu exactly my point.
19:52 the_scourge he did the other one
19:52 mircea_popescu stuff that almost works for its lifetime is worse than no stuff.
19:52 the_scourge alsa was what he tried to replace
19:53 mircea_popescu iirc there existed an alsa as a kernel module
19:53 mircea_popescu but then pulseaudio swallowed it.
19:53 mircea_popescu i guess it'd be sort of dress-rehearsal for systemd
19:54 asciilifeform iirc there are not yet poetteringisms in the mainline kernel.
19:54 mircea_popescu "Even in 2014, you cannot use PulseAudio for competetive gaming on Linux. Not that it matters anyway. Even Valve abandoned Linux."
19:55 mircea_popescu this, incidentally, is a major point. the death of the linux is not exactly unrelated toi the major disappointment of the money makers.
19:55 mircea_popescu people tried to get games going on the platform, 2007-8ish to about 2012. it failed.
19:56 asciilifeform not entirely unconnected with the gpu vendors' behaviour.
19:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46969 @ 0.00039543 = 18.573 BTC [-]
19:56 mircea_popescu not entirely, no.
19:56 mircea_popescu also not entirely unconnected with open source peace and love nitwits who far from knowing which necks to squeeze,
19:57 mircea_popescu don't even realise squeezing necks is what gets things done.
19:57 mircea_popescu but anyway, yes, it seems the alsa | pulseaudio difference was in fact bitterly preserved. one of those underground wars people like me tend to embarass themselves by not noticing.
19:58 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/02/turbotax-stops-filing-state-tax-returns-due-to-massive-fraud/
19:58 assbot TurboTax Stops Filing State Tax Returns Due To Massive Fraud | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnZ2lA )
19:58 mircea_popescu o.O
19:59 kakobrekla prolly nobody cares but i just checked for fun whats the pogo cost in europe; its 55 dorra.
19:59 mircea_popescu kakobrekla yeah they run out of stock, not looking like they want to replenish it either.
19:59 asciilifeform kakobrekla: i distinctly recall seeing this figure here earlier
19:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 17300 @ 0.00093104 = 16.107 BTC [-] {39}
19:59 kakobrekla ah ok
19:59 kakobrekla must have missed it
19:59 asciilifeform kakobrekla: i've been looking into alternatives
20:00 asciilifeform kakobrekla: thus far, found nothing remotely approaching the bang/buck ratio of pogo
20:00 asciilifeform further suggesting that the latter was a 'loss leader' all along
20:00 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "breech" => breach
20:01 kakobrekla only true bezzle can provide
20:01 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Ah, that again.
20:01 BingoBoingo fxd
20:02 mircea_popescu dude i really like this qntra thing. about 1/3 of what i hated about the obsolete press were mistakes. being able to go hey x, Y! makes me all fucking warm and fuzzy inside.
20:02 BingoBoingo lol
20:02 kakobrekla well personalized news is personalized, doh
20:03 * BingoBoingo just pines for the day breech will be the correct version more often on qntra.
20:03 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-BK002009.jpg?size=67&uid=a019bd8c-0800-4484-9de2-d5a9a6551b15 << breech
20:03 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDD3js )
20:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22313 @ 0.00040554 = 9.0488 BTC [+]
20:03 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: That's a nice one
20:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171057 @ 0.00040832 = 69.846 BTC [+] {4}
20:05 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: turbotax article << see also last night's thread re: identity fraud in usa.
20:05 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: It's what inspired taking the piece this direction
20:06 BingoBoingo On day the phenomenon is in the logs getting discussed, the next it's the angle used to disect a fraud in the news.
20:06 asciilifeform aha
20:06 mircea_popescu win-win as they say.
20:07 BingoBoingo Reading informs writing. Scholarship 101
20:07 the_scourge asciilifeform: where would you recommend someone starting with lispy languages?
20:08 BingoBoingo brb, going on a bender this weekend.
20:08 asciilifeform the_scourge: depends on your objective
20:09 the_scourge first is to be able to continue (at least for a while) doing my consulting without shooting myself from boredome
20:09 cazalla ;;later tell bingoboingo fixed 2 spelling mistakes last paragraph
20:09 gribble The operation succeeded.
20:11 the_scourge that mark tarver article really resonated with me. that pretty much described me to a T.. and still does. it's actually why i ended up doing non-STEM degrees: there is no lack of boredom when you're lost in a library
20:11 the_scourge second, i'm REALLY REALLY interested in lisp machines
20:12 the_scourge so, something minimal i guess? scheme is used for embedded stuff i've seen. guile is interesting just 'cause the gnu nix clone uses it
20:12 asciilifeform -which- lisp machine ?
20:12 the_scourge personally i'm interested in one that hasn't been made yet
20:13 mircea_popescu ... you want to code for a machine that doesn't exist ?!
20:14 asciilifeform the_scourge: get peter kogge's book, then
20:14 asciilifeform the_scourge: none of the others will be of much help.
20:15 the_scourge asciilifeform: thanks. historically all i know about is really the AI lab stuff. i went through a phase where i read the jargon book and some more 'original' sources about the AI labs. but this was almost 20 years ago
20:18 the_scourge asciilifeform: Architecture of Symbolic Computers < this is the one?
20:20 asciilifeform it.
20:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163941 @ 0.00041127 = 67.424 BTC [+] {2}
20:29 * asciilifeform lived in free-standing bldg since may, and only now thought to put it to proper use: plug in subwoofer & setting to max.
20:33 the_scourge same thing here. i love playing the piano as loud as possible :D
20:34 the_scourge other than 2 houses across the road, there are no neighbors for over 6 miles in all directions
20:35 * the_scourge is thinking perhaps he could slowly transition his consulting to clojure development and keep his existing clients
20:36 trinque glorious clojure
20:36 * asciilifeform not a fan
20:36 trinque asciilifeform: too much "magic under hood" as you said?
20:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54212 @ 0.00041243 = 22.3587 BTC [+] {2}
20:37 asciilifeform trinque: if you actually care, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42 and http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374
20:37 assbot Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do48hD )
20:37 assbot Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do46pS )
20:37 asciilifeform trinque: the former was, until recently (and possibly now) among the top 'google' hits for the subject.
20:38 trinque "I find Clojure revolting.
20:38 trinque "
20:38 trinque dis gon be gud
20:38 asciilifeform if reading the comments, skip straight to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3383
20:38 assbot Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do4lkZ )
20:39 asciilifeform short version: 'clojure' is to, say, 'common lisp', as 'ripple' is to bitcoin.
20:39 asciilifeform a bauble pushed by unrepentantly lying chumpatronicists.
20:40 asciilifeform it was actually my first exposure to that kind of thing.
20:40 trinque read both, you're right
20:40 asciilifeform you know, the folks who walk in with a turd and explain to you that it's 'just the same' as a sausage, but 'more up with the times'
20:40 trinque what I end up using has a lot to do with "what can I fart a website out in"
20:40 trinque at least in daily work
20:41 trinque I've considered trying just sbcl on one side and parenscript on the other
20:41 trinque but yeah, sausage... turd...
20:41 asciilifeform parenscript is just a lib for any ordinary cl
20:42 asciilifeform this whole 'www' thing never made sense to me. if you can open a socket, you can crap out html
20:43 asciilifeform so it alone can't possibly justify the use of turdlangs.
20:43 trinque just depends on how one earns daily bread
20:43 asciilifeform why does the socket have to be opened using $turdlang ?
20:44 the_scourge asciilifeform: did you ever use a genera machine?
20:44 trinque what I'd like is a situation where I'm writing the same language in both a browser and on the server
20:44 asciilifeform the_scourge: certainly.
20:44 asciilifeform !s symbolics 3620
20:44 assbot 9 results for 'symbolics 3620' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=symbolics+3620
20:44 asciilifeform !s opengenera
20:44 assbot 7 results for 'opengenera' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=opengenera
20:44 trinque I've seen clojure/clojurescript, cl/parenscript, haskell/fey (and a few others)
20:45 asciilifeform trinque: this leads to using $retardlang on server end
20:45 trinque sure, hail satan and pass the node
20:45 * the_scourge goes to find out what is opengenera and where has it been hiding
20:45 asciilifeform the_scourge: it's been hiding in northern virginia.
20:45 trinque my career started during web 2.0 :p
20:45 asciilifeform and a small piece in cambridge, ma
20:45 asciilifeform the_scourge: don't be fooled by the word 'open'
20:46 trinque asciilifeform: does cl fall under $retardlang too?
20:46 trinque ye gods, no firm ground to stand upon
20:46 asciilifeform trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl?
20:47 trinque doesn't the parenscript compiler eat cl and poop js?
20:47 asciilifeform trinque: so you're actually using js. you will notice this, because the cl subset that can be thus eaten/shat is microscopic
20:47 trinque ah
20:47 trinque asciilifeform: same situation as reaching out to Java in clojure then
20:48 asciilifeform the_scourge: the 'open' in 'opengenera' is an archaic 1980s usg-ism. it simply refers to the fact that a product features industry-standard protocols like tcp/ip and does not require you to buy the entire universe you live in from one particular vendor.
20:48 * the_scourge is back, dissapointed
20:48 the_scourge so it's just genera 2.0?
20:48 asciilifeform has nothing whatsoever to do with source being publicly available, or the product being distributed free of charge
20:49 asciilifeform technically symbolics had no name for their os until opengenera was put on the market.
20:49 * the_scourge did find this: https://github.com/ynniv/opengenera while he was gone. seems worth of bookmarking for later
20:49 assbot ynniv/opengenera · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzmA77 )
20:49 the_scourge oh, i thought it was just called genera
20:49 asciilifeform the_scourge: that's merely a script for setting up the unofficial amd64 binary to run under a modern linux.
20:50 asciilifeform the binary is a w4r3z blob, and occasionally distributed with the pirated source.
20:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70158 @ 0.00041298 = 28.9739 BTC [+]
20:50 * trinque has very little idea where to start in terms of choosing a sane programming environment with which to make bezzlars
20:50 asciilifeform the source - not for the amd64 blob.
20:50 asciilifeform but for the original os
20:50 asciilifeform there is no public source for opengenera (either for dec alpha or amd64)
20:51 asciilifeform nor is it included with a purchase.
20:51 the_scourge what do they charge for a copy
20:51 asciilifeform when i bought - $5k usd.
20:51 asciilifeform call, ask.
20:51 the_scourge just when i was starting to think esr and rms didn't have a point. maybe they did
20:51 asciilifeform the source for the dec/amd64 emulator is not sold.
20:52 the_scourge exactly
20:52 asciilifeform the_scourge: in the days of rms, symbolics corp. sold machines. the cheapest started at about the cost of a single-propeller airplane.
20:52 asciilifeform 5k in modern american money is pocket change in comparison.
20:52 the_scourge actually i take it back, the problems here were probably not market-based, but more cultural (and lack of appropriate customers)
20:53 the_scourge asciilifeform: i'm not saying it's exorbant - just expressing dissapointment
20:54 * trinque grows to suspect that there is not a programming environment asciilifeform likes
20:54 the_scourge trinque: he like vimscript. a lot! :)
20:54 trinque lol
20:54 asciilifeform wat
20:54 * asciilifeform has never seen 'vimscript'
20:55 trinque tis butt
20:56 trinque little imperative scripty guy, nothing special
20:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 177500 @ 0.00041335 = 73.3696 BTC [+] {4}
20:56 trinque I'd put more money on asciilifeform being an emacs guy, but not because he likes emacs
20:56 asciilifeform no need to guess
20:57 asciilifeform it's all in the logs.
20:57 the_scourge asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69 < broken link
20:57 assbot Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kznq3N )
20:57 the_scourge this works: https://web.archive.org/web/20080223010634/http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~ejones/writing/systemsresearch.html
20:57 asciilifeform the_scourge: loads fine.
20:58 asciilifeform aha pike's
20:58 the_scourge no, the link to .. yah
20:59 asciilifeform when i explain to folks why i dislike programming on available systems, i sometimes use example that it is rather like being a fellow who likes gardening, but there was a thermonuclear war not long ago, and you gotta sift the soil with sapper's spade in one hand, geiger in the other, and there won't be much sunlight to be had either.
20:59 kakobrekla !b 1
20:59 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3MXCMW1.txt )
21:00 trinque http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+emacs << some lols in here
21:00 assbot 36 results for 'from:asciilifeform emacs' - #bitcoin-assets search
21:00 trinque I recently mapped my f keys to load projects in emacs and appropriate window layouts in stumpwm
21:01 trinque rules.
21:01 the_scourge asciilifeform: can i get a blow by blow on what historical event was this allegorical thermonuclear war?
21:01 asciilifeform the_scourge: no.
21:02 asciilifeform it would be either a crock of shit, or book-length
21:02 trinque the_scourge: he already blogged it all
21:02 the_scourge "I estimate that 90-95% of the work in Plan 9 was directly or indirectly to honor externally imposed standards." < wow that is really sad... and ... is there a solution?
21:02 asciilifeform the_scourge: yes, there is.
21:03 asciilifeform !s year zero
21:03 assbot 28 results for 'year zero' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=year+zero
21:06 the_scourge needs quotes :) looking now
21:08 the_scourge soviet open hardware? wut really?
21:09 the_scourge !s gossip
21:09 assbot 49 results for 'gossip' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gossip
21:09 asciilifeform 'more things in heaven and earth... than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
21:09 the_scourge and that search needs a d at the end ^ (for anyone following along at home)
21:10 the_scourge asciilifeform: i don't know what 'things' are, and i don't know what philosophy means
21:11 the_scourge *'philosophy'
21:11 asciilifeform if you recognize neither the words, nor where they apply here, i'm powerless to help.
21:11 the_scourge is gossipd this psycd-like symetrically encrypted UDP IM protocol?
21:12 asciilifeform 'year zero' simply refers to a reset, where you forget that a given field even has a history (except as an encyclopaedia of what not to do.)
21:13 the_scourge but then doesn't it ruin the excercise?
21:13 the_scourge intuition is destroyed. creativity ruined. because we're tyring so hard to not do what we are misconceited as what went wrong?
21:14 the_scourge speaking of greenfield, what was the reason for greenfielding a re-implementation of psycd? (assuming gossipd has already been written)
21:14 asciilifeform what exercise.
21:15 asciilifeform the_scourge: because the similarity is superficial.
21:16 asciilifeform psycd is a cancerous monstrosity.
21:17 the_scourge well it depends on which implementation you're speaking of
21:17 asciilifeform any and all.
21:17 the_scourge there are a dozen i think. 2 of them named psycd
21:18 asciilifeform the name normally refers to the ancient thing based on 'gnunet'.
21:18 the_scourge you sound confident. what if i told you there was a psyc daemon implemented in 15 lines of common lisp? :)
21:18 asciilifeform post.
21:18 asciilifeform the 15 lines also contain rsa?
21:19 asciilifeform the socket handler?
21:19 asciilifeform the_scourge: bullshit is not welcome in #b-a.
21:20 the_scourge no, sorry i wasn't bullshitting. i'm just trying to point out implementation vs architecture
21:20 the_scourge 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. http://www.xach.com/na < funny, that's one of the reason i've avoided
21:20 assbot 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzpEAa )
21:21 the_scourge i assumed it was poor design and useless academics who'd never had to do a hard day's work in their lives. perhaps it is a shit test?
21:22 asciilifeform the_scourge: poor design for folks used to ibm's (yes, originally their) traditional key chords.
21:22 asciilifeform yes, it is possible to bolt them onto emacs. but few people do.
21:23 trinque evil mode + leader bindings
21:23 trinque that's the stuff
21:23 the_scourge well i'm paying myself paternity leave coming up soon so i'll learn emacs. haven't had a chance for a bit of time in a while
21:23 asciilifeform most folks who lack the mental flexibility to relearn five or six key commands, would not benefit from emacs, and (if they are aware of its existence at all) - know it. and avoid.
21:23 trinque space as leader has done wonders for my hands
21:24 the_scourge trinque: thanks i'll try that
21:24 trinque <esc> <space> f -> C-x C-f
21:24 trinque I also have esc as right alt
21:25 trinque easily thumb-pressed on this keyboard
21:25 the_scourge asciilifeform: i get remapping caps and ctrl, but it still means you're having to combine keystrokes which is always painful to watch
21:25 trinque chords really suck
21:25 asciilifeform painful to watch << such as... ?
21:26 the_scourge as opposed to combinations which are clearly natural. they are idiomatic so the brain groks them more, and the fingers do them easier
21:26 the_scourge any time you are holding down one key and pressing another is painful. even the shift is an example of this
21:26 the_scourge i've noticed you don't capitalize a lot of the time
21:26 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816658
21:26 assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
21:26 the_scourge no one does
21:26 the_scourge ever.
21:27 the_scourge because, it's painful
21:27 asciilifeform no.
21:27 asciilifeform because slow.
21:27 the_scourge you type all the letters in your words
21:28 the_scourge never seen you say 'cause or 'c u later'
21:28 trinque leader bindings are as fast as you type
21:28 the_scourge er, whatever
21:28 trinque and faster than chords because no stretch to the modifier
21:28 the_scourge trinque: yes, i agree
21:28 asciilifeform if you have healthy hands, decent input devices, it is possible to do such surprising things as speaking in complete words.
21:29 the_scourge asciilifeform: which proves my point
21:29 asciilifeform what was the point?
21:29 the_scourge complete words = idioms. leaders. sequences.
21:29 the_scourge they are not painful
21:29 asciilifeform that chords are intrinsically unhealthy somehow?
21:30 the_scourge well i've seen a lot of gnarled old hands. all of them told me it was chording that did it
21:30 asciilifeform see naggum's observation.
21:31 the_scourge yes, these were people who had always had it remapped
21:31 asciilifeform ipso facto poorly.
21:31 trinque meh bindings are pretty personal
21:31 trinque who cares if it works
21:31 asciilifeform or rather, this is not unlike the observation that everybody at the cemetary is there 'because' they breathed air.
21:31 asciilifeform yes, technically - they are.
21:32 the_scourge bindings are a really personal thing. i just hope that i can learn emacs and manage to use leaders for everything, that's all :)
21:32 trinque nubbins' next book will be one of asciilifeform's koans
21:36 the_scourge i need to head off... this weekend i'm going to look into the parallella. i'm curious if a symbolics machine could be implemented in it's FPGA
21:38 trinque the_scourge: cya
21:38 asciilifeform !rate the_scourge -2 dear usg, please send better clowns; the cheap ones are growing tiresome.
21:38 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/079b56c48360dc3d
21:39 asciilifeform !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.-2:872c8508e60de91180b0972e6d07b54ecd8a3362dca96a9a958e64487de13a3f
21:39 assbot Successfully updated the rating for the_scourge from 1 to -2 with note: dear usg, please send better clowns; the cheap ones are growing tiresome.
21:39 asciilifeform ^ and the_scourge, don't bother pm-ing. killfiled.
21:39 * danielpbarron had a similar feeling
21:40 asciilifeform i hope they send him off to wherever they demoted ninjashogun to.
21:40 trinque asciilifeform: think he's reading logs and fishing?
21:40 asciilifeform !down the_scourge
21:41 asciilifeform trinque: i suppose anyone here who hasn't killfiled, will learn the answer.
21:41 asciilifeform i - can't be bothered.
21:41 mircea_popescu well, job's a job. back in whatever on a new one.
21:41 asciilifeform their 'watercooler' conversations must be golden.
21:43 asciilifeform the last straw was the bugger 'shannonizing' my www. i wonder if there's some 'person' that this genuinely works on.
21:43 asciilifeform 'omg1111!!111 i am so interested in xxxxxxxx tell me moar'
21:44 asciilifeform note to future stooges, moles: take some actual care to be distinguishable from comment spam on our www sites
21:44 * mircea_popescu idly wonders what'd a world look like where gavinesque insanities actually made sense. "have everyone's coffee purchases validated by everyone and preserved forever".
21:44 asciilifeform interesting idiots are sometimes (temporarily) tolerated. tedious idiots - never.
21:45 mircea_popescu yottabytes all over, but perhaps something like nock (in principle, not what was proposed) ?
21:45 trinque I try to only ask a few stupid questions a day :P
21:45 asciilifeform even the nock stack posited local caching for trivialities
21:45 asciilifeform rather than a global record of every 1+1.
21:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but imagine data storage literally was not an issue.
21:45 asciilifeform o(n) addition was also 'not an issue'
21:45 mircea_popescu and global record of 1+1 was trivial. perhaps on a machine much akin to physical reality : the result of mixing milk and water is stored for everyone to see - they need but look
21:46 mircea_popescu there's of course a finite number of photons that saw it, but w/e man.
21:46 asciilifeform global record in the sense of every instance
21:46 mircea_popescu interesting how qm actually clips the graph there huh.
21:46 asciilifeform !s hashlife
21:46 assbot 4 results for 'hashlife' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hashlife
21:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform technically speaking, the milk and water mixing IS recorded in ever yinstance.
21:47 asciilifeform ^ compression of spacetime via 'memoization'. this is more or less how one would implement toy universes.
21:47 mircea_popescu trinque i think the concern is to be approached on two lines, empirically. line 1) what % of queries constitute powerplays and b) what % of queries result in interesting education that a noob reading logs would benefit from.
21:47 asciilifeform there was even an old sf story which posited that various microscopic physical limit phenomena result from the emulator shaving cycles in this manner.
21:47 mircea_popescu as 1 goes up and 2 goes down there's at some critical point after which a man is taking his voice in his hands.
21:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform possibly. in this sense, the ultimate engine/life form would be one that lives somehow off the shaving.
21:48 asciilifeform like the bank thief who pockets rounding errors.
21:48 trinque mircea_popescu: hard to get taught anything if you're fighting the teacher
21:49 trinque well, taught what you're after
21:49 asciilifeform (incidentally, american banks learned from the 'salami' case and now do it SOP.)
21:49 mircea_popescu ayup
21:49 trinque if I ever make it out of the gravity well I'd love to get an actual education.
21:50 mircea_popescu actually i'm kinda half curious how many us based conf attendants discover at the border that the newly expanded tsa doth not agree their passport holds any value.
21:50 * asciilifeform was actually rather surprised to be let out last time
21:51 trinque my grandfather still gets hassled at the border for "american party" involvement back in the day
21:51 mircea_popescu danielpbarron "You can throw out the packaging and manual; we won't be needing those." << gotta love the justifiable pride the most serene republic's flag elates out of people.
21:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24452 @ 0.0004145 = 10.1354 BTC [+]
21:55 danielpbarron i should add more stuff like that so it isn't all command line copy paste
21:56 asciilifeform danielpbarron: your 'pogo' booted from external devices without replacing uboot ?
21:56 asciilifeform danielpbarron: mine - did not
21:59 danielpbarron i followed the instructions on the archlinux page for pogo and it worked
21:59 danielpbarron 'uboot' does not ring a bell
21:59 asciilifeform danielpbarron: when thing powers up, it boots from the eeprom
22:00 asciilifeform there is a boot partition there, containing an ancient version of 'uboot'
22:00 asciilifeform (a kind of programmable bootloader, similar to 'lilo')
22:01 asciilifeform the unit i have, had to be reflashed with a modern build of this, to boot from anywhere other than the kernel and root partitions in eeprom
22:01 danielpbarron hm, mine was so easy to do i felt weird re-writing instructions for it
22:01 asciilifeform ^ which can be rewritten easily
22:02 danielpbarron i used brand new unused hard drives.. is it possible that has anything to do with it?
22:03 asciilifeform danielpbarron: nope
22:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but uboot is resident on the drive ?
22:03 asciilifeform danielpbarron: you installed arch to the drive and booted to it, didntcha
22:03 mircea_popescu oh
22:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: uboot is resident in the 128mb eeprom
22:03 asciilifeform on pogo
22:03 asciilifeform followed by a partition holding kernel
22:03 asciilifeform followed by a similarly sized empty one
22:03 mircea_popescu yeh he booted the drive. did you danielpbarron ?
22:03 asciilifeform followed by root
22:04 asciilifeform the root fs is a 'ubifs'
22:04 asciilifeform (yet another fs optimized for fragile 'flash')
22:05 asciilifeform dev: size erasesize name
22:05 asciilifeform mtd0: 00200000 00020000 "u-boot"
22:05 asciilifeform mtd1: 00300000 00020000 "uImage"
22:05 asciilifeform mtd2: 00300000 00020000 "uImage2"
22:05 asciilifeform mtd3: 00800000 00020000 "failsafe"
22:05 asciilifeform mtd4: 07000000 00020000 "root"
22:05 asciilifeform ^ layout
22:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl? << haha this i wanna see. clonqueror.
22:05 trinque :( lol
22:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the cl rewrite of emacs, 'climacs', was almost usable
22:05 trinque I-I just want to swim in a lake not filled with shit!
22:05 danielpbarron the arch install occured on the pogo, if that's what you mean
22:05 trinque but everything around me is a superfund site
22:05 asciilifeform danielpbarron: yes, but it was able to boot from it after.
22:06 asciilifeform danielpbarron: so possibly you got a slightly more recent fw than i
22:06 mircea_popescu any way to check fw vers ? other than popping unit ?
22:06 danielpbarron yeah it rebooted with no extra work needed
22:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: when the thing warms up, it dumps uboot ver. to the serial console
22:07 mircea_popescu danielpbarron can oyu check an report ?
22:07 asciilifeform other than that, one can take a snapshot: dd if=/dev/mtd0 of=turd.bin
22:07 asciilifeform and throw in favourite hexeditor
22:07 danielpbarron one of the steps in the arch install might have done something to the built in flash; i'm not sure to be honest
22:07 danielpbarron it had me download a script and run it
22:07 asciilifeform wai wat!?!!
22:07 * asciilifeform did no such thing
22:07 asciilifeform so you did reflash. with hell knows what. lol
22:08 asciilifeform dollars to doughnuts, danielpbarron had a normal pogo
22:09 mircea_popescu what is the arch install and how did it end up imported in here ?
22:09 danielpbarron when i searched the log for pogo, i found that linked
22:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there was a public set of instructions for installing 'archlinux' for arm onto 'pogo'.
22:09 asciilifeform i used the disk image from it
22:09 danielpbarron i'm happy to experiment with alternatives
22:09 mircea_popescu aha
22:10 asciilifeform one ends up with a mindbogglingly-heavy ubuntu-style thing, complete with 'systemd'
22:10 mircea_popescu okies, so basically he found a shortcut ?
22:10 asciilifeform aha
22:10 danielpbarron ya
22:10 asciilifeform bash script that downloads and flashes in somebody's uboot
22:10 mircea_popescu a shortcut through the mud
22:10 * asciilifeform built the uboot from public sources
22:10 asciilifeform using same crosscompiler as for everything else
22:10 mircea_popescu danielpbarron for the sake of sanity, can you proceed closer to asciilifeform's original ?
22:10 danielpbarron yes
22:11 mircea_popescu nothing wrong with shortcuts in principle, but this one hurts.
22:11 asciilifeform who could even imagine, an 800K bootloader!
22:11 asciilifeform there's a complete shell in there
22:11 asciilifeform and tcp/ip stack...
22:11 asciilifeform helps in resurrecting a totally b0rk3d machine, yes
22:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i had some toast earlier, the toaster:~$ said :L)
22:11 asciilifeform (you can pump in a fresh kernel with tftp)
22:12 asciilifeform http://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot
22:12 assbot WebHome < U-Boot < DENX ... ( http://bit.ly/1ENeXeJ )
22:12 asciilifeform ^ it
22:14 asciilifeform used in perhaps 90% of the embedded net junk on the planet
22:14 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/#comment-112033 << and the perennial question.
22:14 assbot Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ENf3mx )
22:14 asciilifeform imho in the final turd we nuke it
22:14 asciilifeform just have the thing load a straight linux kernel
22:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124711 @ 0.00041574 = 51.8474 BTC [+] {2}
22:15 mircea_popescu "psycd is currently being refactored into a GNUnet service to run secushare on. The former psycd code is quite interesting, but currently unmaintained. "
22:15 mircea_popescu am i a bad person for lulzing at this ?
22:15 mod6 i just passed block 168,001
22:15 mircea_popescu mod6 took the whole day ?!
22:16 mod6 am now on block 168,011
22:16 mod6 ah, na.
22:16 mircea_popescu hm
22:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was an attempt at something like tor.
22:16 mod6 i just got a chance to work on it again here now.
22:16 mircea_popescu any idea what the hook was ?
22:16 mod6 i upgraded openssl
22:16 mircea_popescu o.O
22:16 mircea_popescu from what to what ?
22:16 mod6 root@debian-test:~# openssl version -a
22:16 mod6 OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014
22:16 mod6 from version...
22:16 * asciilifeform picked a very arbitrary openssl
22:17 mod6 OpenSSL 0.9.8o
22:17 mod6 which was from the orig debian 6 iirc
22:17 mircea_popescu uh that's like 2010 ?!
22:18 mircea_popescu 2009 even ?
22:18 mod6 yeah.
22:18 mircea_popescu sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011
22:18 mod6 it's old. this is what was included with ben's script to configure deb6.
22:18 mircea_popescu whereas if you compile itwith more 2011 ish openssl itdoes ?
22:19 mircea_popescu this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ?
22:19 * asciilifeform did not test with anything other than the shortly post-heartbleed turdball specified in 'portatronic'
22:19 mod6 so far. it's really weird still though, because i wasn't having this problem before. and we've always been using an old ssl.
22:19 mircea_popescu might be a bug specific to the 9.8o but then that doesn't explain how all the others worked
22:20 asciilifeform actually
22:20 asciilifeform idea
22:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i am willing to bet there are over 1kbugs in this thing. all distinct.
22:20 asciilifeform let's rip out openssl in the simplest way
22:20 asciilifeform roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used.
22:20 asciilifeform so, for example, we can see what they are.
22:20 asciilifeform (with naked eye)
22:20 mod6 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=KgQwrzYM
22:20 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ENfL3p )
22:20 asciilifeform and then send them to hell
22:20 asciilifeform and substitute in sanity.
22:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform can you be specific rather than rhetoric ? i dun follow
22:21 asciilifeform specifically,
22:21 mod6 so thats ^^^ my version of openssl on my aws instance, and i've sync'd successfully at lesat a dozen times in the last 4 months on there
22:21 asciilifeform we snip out the #include <openssl/......>
22:21 mircea_popescu sigs won't verify.
22:21 asciilifeform that's step 1
22:21 mircea_popescu oh oh oh i see
22:21 asciilifeform step 2 is crypto.cpp/h
22:21 mircea_popescu this is actually a worthy plan.
22:21 mod6 and now wedges for some crazy reason. now I'm gonna upgrade to 1.0.1g there as well (just upgraded my deb6 on vbox vm to start with) and try to pass the wedge too.
22:21 asciilifeform where the missing routines are then placed.
22:22 mircea_popescu course also what the wunderbar vc boys are trying to do with their NOVEL inmplemetnation
22:22 mircea_popescu you recall, the one that's so well tested apud gmaxwel
22:22 asciilifeform i must confess
22:22 asciilifeform that i was unable to make myself read the whole thing
22:22 mircea_popescu openssl ?
22:22 asciilifeform gavin's 0.10
22:22 mircea_popescu oh
22:22 mircea_popescu nono, this is planned. lemme fish it out
22:23 asciilifeform dove in once or twice to fish out the orphanage burn thing
22:23 asciilifeform which had to be mutilated in six different ways to bolt onto 0.5.3
22:23 mircea_popescu https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rrxq7/on_why_010s_release_notes_say_we_have_reason_to < lulzy bits.
22:23 assbot On why 0.10's release notes say "we have reason to believe that libsecp256k1 is better tested and more thoroughly reviewed than the implementation in OpenSSL" : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1xEmxjb )
22:24 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ? << yes, im sure that i'll dig into this further
22:25 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816658 << actually this is pretty good a point, seeing how the tit actually goes INTO the face.
22:25 assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
22:26 mircea_popescu a true interface.
22:28 trinque !b 2
22:28 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0TP2YPT.txt )
22:28 mircea_popescu the one truely thing i deeply regret from 2014
22:28 mircea_popescu is how that spammer guy killed qntra and then bitcoin-assets.
22:28 mircea_popescu i used to like dropping in on them now and again.
22:29 asciilifeform l0l
22:29 mircea_popescu such is the fate of right wing movements tho, bereft of means and resources as they are.
22:29 mod6 <+asciilifeform> roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used. << I want to collect some more data on this issue. But I'm open to discussing this option going forward.
22:30 asciilifeform mod6: simple algorithm: comment out the #includes
22:30 mircea_popescu mod6 this issue is critical because it's easily the squishiest point of the whole protocol.
22:30 asciilifeform mod6: and then add the routines back in until the thing builds again
22:30 asciilifeform however
22:30 mircea_popescu why the fuck we're importing from a different project - and THAT one in particular is anyone's guess
22:30 asciilifeform you may end up pulling in much of the openssl turd in the process
22:30 asciilifeform !s the spittoon
22:30 assbot 9 results for 'the spittoon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=the+spittoon
22:31 mircea_popescu and a sad testament to what you get stuck with if , like satoshi, have to jackbuild a house
22:34 asciilifeform is there a particular reason
22:34 asciilifeform why the wallet is still in ?
22:35 mircea_popescu in what ?
22:35 asciilifeform therealbitcoin.
22:36 mircea_popescu the reference implementation ?
22:36 mircea_popescu how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ?
22:36 asciilifeform i suppose that'd be why
22:36 asciilifeform hm.
22:37 mircea_popescu " My standard of comparison for any technology will always be everything previously achieved by mankind, rather than what is available on the market today."
22:37 mircea_popescu this much is a solid approach.
22:37 mod6 asciilifeform: One school of thought is to take the wallet, and place it outside of the R.I. as a seperate entity.
22:38 mircea_popescu "do not tell me of what seems acceptable as an idea to pudgy people driving on the interstate towards connecticut. i do not care."
22:38 mircea_popescu mod6 does that idea go as far as making bitcoin a sort of xserver ?
22:39 mod6 something to that effect, perhaps. yes.
22:39 mod6 where you can connect to 'bitcoind' with a wallet of your choosing. if that's what you mean.
22:39 mircea_popescu like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ?
22:39 asciilifeform idea that was spoken of was a hopper to throw signed tx in.
22:40 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-10-2014#890284
22:40 assbot Logged on 23-10-2014 05:07:32; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> connected with serial cable << this from reading up on old mpex material ?
22:40 asciilifeform ^ thread
22:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes but more generally speaking.
22:40 mod6 right, then there was that whole discussion.
22:44 mod6 So, yeah, there are a number of topics that we look forward to discussing with you about future of the R.I. We'll get there. :]
22:45 * mod6 does a data round-up & updates openssl on AWS instance
22:45 mircea_popescu poor mod6 sounds exactly like buridan's ass :D
22:45 asciilifeform back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ?
22:45 danielpbarron oh btw, the pogo running with swap space hasn't crashed yet, currently at 87k
22:46 mircea_popescu danielpbarron was it 2gb space ?
22:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform seems to be the report.
22:46 danielpbarron yeah, slightly under after formatting
22:46 mod6 <+asciilifeform> back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ? << yup, that's what unwedged it. move from openssl v0.9.8o -> openssl 1.0.1g
22:46 asciilifeform danielpbarron: blocks?
22:47 danielpbarron yeah
22:47 mod6 mircea_popescu: haha.
22:48 mod6 yeah, some well thought out decisions to be made for sure. :)
22:48 asciilifeform danielpbarron: as in how many ?
22:48 mod6 im looking forward to that discussion, as well as the BDB removal discussion
22:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform re the "Have you ever actually used a speech recognition system to enter serious lengths of text? " line in your comments : i agree talking to a comp
22:48 mircea_popescu hm, actually, woul you prefer i comment there ?
22:48 danielpbarron asciilifeform, 88100
22:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: either works
22:49 mircea_popescu so i agree that talking to computers is loathsome. however, i often use note takers when speaking rather than writing myslelf. the latter explains the former.
22:49 mircea_popescu the great utility of the scribe / secretary, rather than the tits, is that natural languages have piles and layers of redundancy built in. a good note taker is a cheap way to gain 50 to 100% speed and a decent 10 to 25% quality for very little cost.
22:50 mircea_popescu BUT if the computer you are talking to is equally redundant and badly built, you are either an idiot or very very unfortunate.
22:50 asciilifeform computer, as we have it, does not even know how to 'say that again plz'
22:50 asciilifeform but merrily craps out garbage
22:50 mircea_popescu a secretary that does that generally gets fired.
22:50 mircea_popescu but! she can fix asonances!@
22:51 mircea_popescu if any good, she can go "you don't actually say that"
22:51 mircea_popescu as in, "i've never heard it before"
22:51 mircea_popescu etc.
22:51 asciilifeform the secretary will know how to finesse the question
22:51 mircea_popescu quite.
22:52 mircea_popescu it's a job, and it earns its pay fairly.
22:52 mircea_popescu but the reason itdoes is specifically - that recipient is not computer.
22:52 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3088289335876823@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum
22:52 assbot Re: Why a lisp OS? Re: Help required on Limitations of Lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1zY7kRF )
22:52 asciilifeform ^ nothing to do with lisp, but with secretaries
22:54 mircea_popescu also obligatory, wilde. "i will leave it to you to fix the ifs and thens and wherefores"
22:55 mircea_popescu actually where's that great fry monologue.
22:55 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY
22:55 assbot Stephen Fry Kinetic Typography - Language - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zY7HLM )
22:58 mircea_popescu (to dampen that : fry likes wilde more because wilde was a fag than because wilde was good. which he wasn't THAT good. but nevertheless, THIS point is sound in this context)
22:58 asciilifeform so far it sounds like what orwell would've farted out in a paragraph
22:59 asciilifeform but turned into a whole dance
23:00 mircea_popescu very politically like minded, yes.
23:00 mircea_popescu which of course in a different time would beg the snide question if orwell were ever married.
23:00 asciilifeform was, interestingly
23:00 mircea_popescu (note that this does not mean the same as "was ever married" in the slightest, which is the point)
23:01 asciilifeform iirc at least 2x
23:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242700 @ 0.00040201 = 97.5678 BTC [-] {3}
23:02 mircea_popescu i thought he was a womanizer
23:03 asciilifeform iirc was, but it didn't leave any interesting material for archaeologists
23:03 asciilifeform or if did, i'm unaware.
23:09 mircea_popescu lol this naggum thing. jesus christ he's impossible to talk to.
23:09 mircea_popescu at which point does the use of "seperate" in the original text suggest to him that he's dealing with a simple man with simple problems and he'd better stick to simpler solutions ?
23:10 mircea_popescu there's two kinds of socialist minds in this world, the sort that expect all people to be equally stupid, and the sort that expect all people to be equally smart.
23:11 mircea_popescu neither is good news.
23:13 asciilifeform what was the 'simple man with simple programs' doing in comp.lang.lisp ?
23:13 mircea_popescu looking for a nut.
23:13 asciilifeform mistook address ?
23:13 asciilifeform lol
23:13 mircea_popescu "according to a report in the Economist earlier this year, the cost of producing any piece of business communication dropped along with advances in computers from 1950 through 1980. from 1985 through 1995, it rose sharply enough to consume all earnings made since 1950. it is significantly more expensive to produce a business letter in 1997 than it was in 1950. despite many technological advances with a very high pri
23:13 mircea_popescu ce tag, a secretary does not produce any more measurable output now than in 1950 -- in fact, the evidence suggests that obtaining _half_ the productivity of a 1950's secretary in 1997 is a major feat. the fact that managers write their own reports at down to 1/10th of the speed of a secretary that used to be paid 1/10th of their salary also means that the time spent producing a letter or a report can cost as much as 1
23:13 mircea_popescu 00 times more than it did in 1950, when managers scribbled unreadable notes and very quick and efficient typists corrected their spelling, grammer, and language and adhered to "company style" effortlessly."
23:13 mircea_popescu now that... that is EXACTLY what i had in mind earlier.
23:13 asciilifeform a sparrow caught in a microwave horn
23:13 asciilifeform also mistook address
23:14 asciilifeform speaking of which
23:14 asciilifeform student puzzle
23:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform laugh if you will, but if pressed to come up with a definition of humanity, at least as an ideal object, the most sound i can think up is, "that collection of objects which construct relations which degrade gracefully"
23:14 asciilifeform give a physical explanation, in one sentence, of why a trumpet/tube/microwave horn needs the 'bell'.
23:14 mircea_popescu so... sparrow cooked, sure. simple man should be safe.
23:15 asciilifeform naggum saw comp.lang.lisp as something more like a machine shop than a public square
23:15 mircea_popescu even so.
23:15 asciilifeform 'must be =this= tall to ride'
23:15 mircea_popescu note that the guy wasn't actually making code changes
23:16 mircea_popescu i guess perhaps he was in some definition
23:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform which part's the bell ?
23:17 asciilifeform the end opposite from mouth
23:17 asciilifeform (wide end)
23:18 mircea_popescu not all of them actually end in a resonant chamber do they ?
23:18 mircea_popescu im pretty sure i saw simple funel shapes
23:18 asciilifeform funnel shapes also work
23:21 asciilifeform answer (rot13) - gur ubea, va obgu pnfrf, zngpurf gur vzcrqnapr bs gur genafzvggre - zbhgu be zntargeba, rvgure - jvgu gung bs serr fcnpr.
23:23 mircea_popescu "in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it." << and in this sense... their merging would be expected at about the time "most people" couldn't if press explain exactly what the ++ stand for.
23:24 mircea_popescu ah hehe that's a good point.
23:24 mircea_popescu i suppose "resonance chamber" isn't actually a good enough answer.
23:31 asciilifeform http://www.setileague.org/askdr/imped.htm << solution for electromagnetic
23:31 assbot Ask Dr. SETI: Characteristic Impedance of Free Space ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlN9ku )
23:31 asciilifeform https://casper.berkeley.edu/astrobaki/index.php/Impedance_of_Free_Space << for folks who must have prettyprinted equations
23:31 assbot Impedance of Free Space - AstroBaki ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlNp2H )
23:35 mod6 ok was able to pass 168,001 on my aws instance with configuration: openssl 1.0.1g + v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 } : http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=aBLX9YVy
23:35 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlO44n )
~ 20 minutes ~
23:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152100 @ 0.00041249 = 62.7397 BTC [+] {2}
23:57 asciilifeform ;;bc,stats
23:57 gribble Current Blocks: 342354 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44859627562.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.69034
23:57 asciilifeform 302465.
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