| 00:06 |
billymg |
the light theme is the only one i use now, despite dragging my feet in making it in the first place |
| 00:14 |
phf |
oh neat |
| |
~ 9 hours 19 minutes ~ |
| 09:33 |
* |
asciilifeform waves |
| 09:36 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011276 << asciilifeform not expects that, even if over9000 folx take up pestism, that they'd live here (why?) |
| 09:36 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 14:22:22 awt: Who should be on pestnet? |
| 09:39 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011288 << ditto |
| 09:39 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 15:27:53 billymg: speaking for myself, i've been quiet lately because i don't have anything new or relevant to discuss. been mostly focused on irl endeavors and distractions |
| 09:41 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011307 << what's wrong with e.g. pgpgram in blog comment ? |
| 09:41 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 16:08:22 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: Point was, in that instance of dulapnet shutting down, how many would reach out to ascii for a peering key over email? |
| 09:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011317 << imho this is the way to do it -- guest door |
| 09:43 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 16:15:23 phf[awt]: i want vex rants to be part of pestnet, unrelated to abstract questions of "is it a public forum", so maybe i build a web interface that i brought up some time ago, so that the guy can connect, post his rasta videos and such |
| 09:43 |
PeterL |
oh hi asciilifeform, good to see you got it connected |
| 09:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011335 << 'multichan' is already there -- erry net is 'channel' |
| |
↖ |
| 09:44 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 16:35:53 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: phf: possibly in order before toilet would be multichan support |
| 09:44 |
shinohai |
gm pestnet |
| 09:46 |
shinohai |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-23#1011435 << I'm a dark-mode maximalist, but nice that yer logger has the option. I have tampermonkey script for gui browser that darkens other stuff, but not necessary with your logotron. |
| 09:46 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-23 23:55:40 billymg: i have to ask, is it the light theme or dark theme you're using? (or maybe you have your OS set to change based on the time of day) |
| 09:46 |
PeterL |
I've gotten a pgp-gram in a blog comment, was a good way to get me a message |
| 09:47 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011355 << main win of pestronics is 'defense' against '1 d00d ran box and then he ran outta juice and rip and nao where connect'. errything else secondary atm |
| 09:47 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 16:58:38 billymg: signpost: valid point. first and foremost i see pest as defensible territory designed to keep out heathens and agent provocateurs |
| 09:49 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011362 << piece of soft aint aboutta stave off ragnarok, noose at 11 |
| 09:49 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 17:12:42 signpost: doesn't see *any* human who can prevent that crash. not presidents, not anyone assembled here. |
| 09:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011378 << to date asciilifeform not impressed with any of the supposedly 'sane' 'deplatformed folx' (wai were 'platformed' to start with?) |
| |
↖ |
| 09:51 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 18:06:25 signpost: "sane" people are deplatformed every day. once this thing's a viable alternative it oughta be aggressively promoted to those folks, who then bring their horde of normies. |
| 09:53 |
PeterL |
at this point we can say pest has succesfully replaced Freenode |
| 09:54 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: orig. notion was, recall, entirely modest 'in #a rack people report outage, but how to do so if it lives in selfsame rack' |
| 09:57 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011379 << moar or less ideal for warez, yes (p2p warez fwiw aint some kinda new breakthrough, but historically direly missing a wot footing) |
| 09:57 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 18:07:35 signpost: it's why I like the warez idea; it tidily bundles together what one needs for decentralized publishing of w/e. |
| |
~ 27 minutes ~ |
| 10:25 |
billymg |
shinohai: got it, cool! |
| 10:25 |
billymg |
morning, asciilifeform, how goes the castle fortification? |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
| 10:56 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: lol, it's an unremarkable hovel 30m walk from the prev one |
| |
↖ |
| 10:58 |
* |
asciilifeform took most of year to make it sorta habitable, and not because wreck but because ~0 time. and still, lol, renting the old 1 even nao |
| 11:04 |
awt |
wb asciilifeform |
| 11:05 |
asciilifeform |
ty awt |
| 11:13 |
phf |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011458 << http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-01-13#1369390 |
| 11:13 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 09:51:34 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|crawlerbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011378 << to date asciilifeform not impressed with any of the supposedly 'sane' 'deplatformed folx' (wai were 'platformed' to start with?) |
| 11:16 |
phf |
you (or your fans) have been posting links to e.g. hackernews, to be immediately flagged and downvoted, because disagreeable positions, but that's not "deplatforming", that's "i didn't want to be on that platform to begin with"? |
| |
↖ |
| 11:17 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-01-13 phf: copypaste: the fact that your "tens of thousands of dollars" deals have not been compromised is entirely due to "uncatchable joe" factor. is russian joke, "this there is uncatchable joe. -- woah, nobody can catch him? -- no, nobody cares to" |
| 11:18 |
phf |
in totally unrelated i do wonder why propagation is so janky. i'm looking at the logs on bitdash and nosuchlabs, and the messages are in all kinds of jacked order. it took almost a minute for dulapbot response to get to me |
| 11:19 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $21571.11 |
| 11:22 |
phf |
hmm, what an odd mess of packets http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-mess.png |
| 11:23 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $21558.99 |
| 11:30 |
phf |
awt, i think you already know, but your deduper doesn't quite work right, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mx2h |
| |
~ 32 minutes ~ |
| 12:02 |
awt |
phf likely nosuchlabs order is off due to sync, in which logs are dumped in chunks as they come in. The lines within the chunks are in order, but the chunks themselves are in somewhat reverse chronological order. |
| 12:05 |
asciilifeform |
awt: asciilifeform's logger is at this pt ~inedible, will need to zap & reload from billymg's at some pt |
| 12:06 |
asciilifeform |
( and to find out wai dulapbot's peerings dun seem to make for a reasonably realtime intake ) |
| 12:07 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011472 << see also. asciilifeform's conclusion was 'forum for lamers, fughetit' |
| |
↖ |
| 12:07 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 11:16:35 phf[awt]: you (or your fans) have been posting links to e.g. hackernews, to be immediately flagged and downvoted, because disagreeable positions, but that's not "deplatforming", that's "i didn't want to be on that platform to begin with"? |
| 12:08 |
* |
asciilifeform dislikes meme 'deplatforming' because it assumes the lulnotion that 'nobody can post except on 'platforms'' |
| 12:13 |
awt |
asciilifeform: note re: sync on 9973 - the IRC client need not be attached for sync to occur. |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
awt: that wasn't the problem, it's always attached |
| 12:15 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011376 << asciilifeform admits to indifference re subj. 'make sumthing that shoots from junkyard parts' was solved problem in ww2 era, and reqs no fancy cncisms, they're a distraction for 'ricers'. |
| 12:15 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 18:05:04 signpost: wave-of-meat has its place, but I'd rather have the defense distributed guys in here, folks teaching el salvadorean abuelitas bitcoin, etc. |
| 12:16 |
asciilifeform |
as for 'teach lamers to bitcoin', to date afaik only resulted in proliferation of folx feeding the fractional-reserve gox scammers |
| |
↖ |
| 12:22 |
awt |
asciilifeform: the idea was that if you don't want a bunch of out of order sync noise, you can disconnect the client for a while |
| 12:25 |
asciilifeform |
awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition |
| 12:26 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011269 << asciilifeform not blind to the fact that ~errything he does is either a chore or a 'displacement'. for all the good this realization does, lol |
| |
↖ |
| 12:26 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 14:15:04 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113248 << i came to view this behavior as particularly kind of displacement activity. it's a combination of one of the later threads between diana and mp on malleability of computer artifacts and an old copypasta from “ivan chesnokov” about ak-47 |
| 12:26 |
shinohai |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011489 << then did they truly learn to Bitcoin at all? |
| 12:26 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 12:16:41 asciilifeform[5]: as for 'teach lamers to bitcoin', to date afaik only resulted in proliferation of folx feeding the fractional-reserve gox scammers |
| 12:27 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: 'bitcoin' |
| 12:27 |
* |
shinohai fresh off the hate train for latest blogpost calling lightning a shitcoin ..... |
| 12:29 |
awt |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-08-24#1011538 << purely palliative measure until "tru logs" via pest db rather than pushing a string through the IRC hole |
| |
↖ |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: if you get kick outta engaging with these, by all means, beats vodka, afaik won't give cirrhosis |
| 12:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 12:25:00 asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
awt: correct |
| 12:31 |
shinohai |
Well I'm not gonna pickle liver, but vodka + shitposting is sometimes a great time. |
| 12:33 |
awt |
phf: I'm aware of the dupe issue you've mentioned before. I wonder if there's some sort of pattern there with it happening with a log quote. |
| 12:34 |
awt |
A log quote from a syncing bot station... |
| 12:34 |
asciilifeform |
for folx who grasp that none of the buttons within their reach are connected to anyffin interesting, the options typically are vodka; nagant; 'displacements'; commercial worx (getmoar dough, buy fancier coffin!). asciilifeform in recent yrs partial to the last item |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 12:55 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011325 << may've said this before, but imho dulapnet oughta be replaced with a pest gate of the type proposed by phf |
| 12:55 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 16:27:19 phf[awt]: billymg, there's a slump, but there's also definitely bifurcation. occassional drive by comment, or a vex stream, or some "hello, i'm still alive" ping will go to either, and necessarily splits the attention |
| 13:01 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011366 << there afaik are 2 plausible models. 1 is where 'there are interesting people with the time & juice for interesting discussion, they simply need a new protocol' but there's naturally also the ~other~ one. 'best magician cannot pull rabbit from hat unless there is in fact a r |
| 13:01 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 17:17:16 signpost: (and of course, little things break through and become big at exactly that kind of time, when the incumbent falters) |
| 13:03 |
asciilifeform |
( ftr to asciilifeform 'big' is synonymous with 'dominated by left snail of bell curve'. in the past, e.g. '90s usenet gave illusion that it can be otherwise, but oughta remember that 1) there was already an implicit filter 2) wasn't all that big ) |
| 13:04 |
asciilifeform |
...unless there is in fact a rabbit in that hat'(tm) |
| 13:04 |
asciilifeform |
^ major item on asciilifeform's blatta wishlist -- working msg splitter |
| 13:05 |
asciilifeform |
currently snips off rather arbitrarily |
| 13:05 |
awt |
asciilifeform: on my wishlist too |
| 13:16 |
awt |
asciilifeform: also on my wishlist is a protocol spec for pest clients. I will likely need some help there. Just don't want to put too much more effort into IRC support. |
| |
~ 2 hours 32 minutes ~ |
| 15:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011394 << this kinda lul periodically comes up, and asciilifeform can't resist to comment : |
| 15:48 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-22 18:31:16 billymg: yep, developers fair game now |
| 15:50 |
asciilifeform |
in 100% of these, the reich.'crime' aint 'ohnoez, wrote a proggy, and it was 'too kewl for skool'', but rather 'ohey, identifiable plebe with a nontrivial coin-denominated income stream, let's dekulakize pronto' |
| |
↖ |
| 15:52 |
asciilifeform |
and ftr if asciilifeform one day hears that buchenwald has been reopened, and the barracks filled with shitcoin 'money makers' waiting to be fed to rottweilers one at a time, toes 1st -- won't feel any emotion but vague 'good things ~do~ occasionally happen' |
| 15:57 |
shinohai |
lol |
| |
~ 1 hours 58 minutes ~ |
| 17:55 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011466 << ah, well, better than nothing. i only asked because it sounded like you were at least adding some cool upgrades |
| |
↖ |
| 17:55 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 10:56:01 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: billymg: lol, it's an unremarkable hovel 30m walk from the prev one |
| 17:56 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011518 << right, like http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2021-09-21#1059014 |
| 17:56 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 15:50:42 asciilifeform[4]: in 100% of these, the reich.'crime' aint 'ohnoez, wrote a proggy, and it was 'too kewl for skool'', but rather 'ohey, identifiable plebe with a nontrivial coin-denominated income stream, let's dekulakize pronto' |
| 17:56 |
bitbot |
(asciilifeform) 2021-09-21 asciilifeform: shinohai: moar likely they simply wanted some btc (perhaps to refill waterfall, hence yest.'s -xx% dump) |
| 17:57 |
billymg |
i didn't know this particular victim was also running a scam, thought he merely provided the software |
| 17:58 |
billymg |
though possibly was hosting it "as a service" and taking a %, didn't bother looking into it |
| 17:59 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011498 << any reason i couldn't try to hack together something for the existing logotron that tails blatta's sqlite db for the inserts instead of having the bot do it? |
| |
↖ |
| 17:59 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 12:29:41 awt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-08-24#1011538 << purely palliative measure until "tru logs" via pest db rather than pushing a string through the IRC hole |
| 18:00 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 12:25:00 asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition |
| 18:04 |
awt |
billymg: no reason you couldn't |
| 18:04 |
awt |
The attempt would be informative, at the least. |
| 18:05 |
billymg |
awt: ok, might take a look at doing that soon then |
| 18:06 |
billymg |
well, "soon" at least |
| 18:06 |
awt |
excellent |
| 18:14 |
phf |
i finally added transparent recovery to networking code for when the network goes down, so now at least when i get on wifi again i start magically getting new packets |
| |
↖ |
| 18:15 |
phf |
kind of neat, at late 90s state of the art now :> |
| 18:22 |
phf |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011482 << well that's kind of my point, the good old “we don't want you here — i didn't want to be here to begin with because you're all lame!!1”. meanwhile i suspect there's people on hackernews who might be amendable to reason, who otherwise think that ptacek is be all end al |
| |
↖ |
| 18:22 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 12:07:51 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011472 << see also. asciilifeform's conclusion was 'forum for lamers, fughetit' |
| 18:22 |
phf |
l authority on all subjects |
| 18:30 |
phf |
deplatforming goes beyond “kicked off twitter” and it's all the things discussed on #t already: removed from searches for russian propaganda, confiscated dns for racism, at what point does own platform becomes funcitonally equivalent to publishing to desk drawer |
| |
↖ |
| 18:38 |
phf |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011528 << does blatta already correctly sort the messages? that is if one to query blatta database will packets come out in the correct timestamp/netchain/selfchain order? |
| 18:38 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 17:59:52 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011498 << any reason i couldn't try to hack together something for the existing logotron that tails blatta's sqlite db for the inserts instead of having the bot do it? |
| 18:40 |
phf |
i ended up making a netchain/selfchain dependency graph and then sorting it with kahn, but i might be overthinking it… i ignored the part of the spec where one's supposed to keep the various lists with pending packets, does the correct ordering fall out from following the spec precisely? |
| |
↖ |
| 18:42 |
awt |
phf: no there's no mechanism for extracting a chain in order. messages are stored in the log table as decrypted binary objects. |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011541 << this aint wrong, but in asciilifeform's pov, so far the interesting people he's met have entirely diff problem (finding ea.other at all!) rather than censors |
| 18:50 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 18:30:56 phf[awt]: deplatforming goes beyond “kicked off twitter” and it's all the things discussed on #t already: removed from searches for russian propaganda, confiscated dns for racism, at what point does own platform becomes funcitonally equivalent to publishing to desk drawer |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
(whereas the censored!111 weevs, asciilifeform finds mortally tedious, to date, to the last man, fwiw) |
| 18:53 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. asciilifeform , 'uncatchable joe', not earned to be censored from dns, much less car bomb, but for ~decade had ~nobody to meaningfuly talk to on the net |
| 18:55 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011536 << this'd be what 'prod' was intended for, neh |
| 18:55 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 18:14:26 phf[awt]: i finally added transparent recovery to networking code for when the network goes down, so now at least when i get on wifi again i start magically getting new packets |
| 18:57 |
phf |
oh, that's unrelated to prod. my code used to throw millions of exceptions whenever packets stopped delivering |
| 18:57 |
asciilifeform |
aa |
| 18:58 |
asciilifeform |
hm does the socket somehow die when wifi croaks? |
| 18:58 |
* |
asciilifeform not expected this |
| 19:00 |
phf |
asciilifeform, there are network states. e.g. if counterparty didn't explicitly disable icmp (which is recommended but not mandated by spec) you'll get a network error when the port times out or udp gets explicitly closed |
| 19:01 |
phf |
when wifi goes down and there's nowhere for packet to go at all, os also reports it back as errno |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
a! |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
iirc awt observed this when baking his py proto |
| 19:02 |
phf |
fwiw i also thought that udp is entirely fire and forget, apparently not so |
| 19:02 |
asciilifeform |
funny how one doesn't actually get connectionless udp simply 'by asking', the icmp nonsense evidently ubiquitous |
| 19:04 |
phf |
the convenient part is that you can start one udp socket, which serves as a server, and when you send from that socket you explicitly specify ip/port on each send. so if you take care of errors when send fails, the first successful send retargets everyone back to that one socket, and everything just works™ |
| 19:05 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011544 << dollars to doughnuts, it doesn't, asciilifeform did not exhaustively model the thing, is unabashedly на коленке product atm |
| 19:05 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 18:40:42 phf[awt]: i ended up making a netchain/selfchain dependency graph and then sorting it with kahn, but i might be overthinking it… i ignored the part of the spec where one's supposed to keep the various lists with pending packets, does the correct ordering fall out from following the spec precisely? |
| 19:06 |
phf |
the socket otherwise doesn't fail, doesn't need to be restarted (at least as far as i can see), so the actual bookeeping mechanism is very simple |
| 19:08 |
asciilifeform |
makes sense |
| 19:17 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011521 << vehehery minor upgrades |
| 19:18 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-08-24 17:55:42 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011466 << ah, well, better than nothing. i only asked because it sounded like you were at least adding some cool upgrades |
| |
~ 56 minutes ~ |
| 20:14 |
awt |
Thinking further about 'tru logger' this would also perhaps be best done via a socket using a specified protocol. Perhaps if signpost could give a very concrete example of what he images some portion of the protocol might look like I could run with it. Having trouble starting on it as is. |
| 20:14 |
awt |
*imagines |