03:26 |
awt |
$ticker btc usd |
03:26 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $19974.91 |
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~ 12 hours 45 minutes ~ |
16:11 |
awt |
$ticker btc usd |
16:11 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $20599.04 |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
16:27 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld |
| |
↖ |
16:32 |
awt |
hello |
16:32 |
awt |
pestbot: ping |
16:32 |
pestbot |
pong |
16:32 |
asciilifeform |
seems to have logged |
16:32 |
asciilifeform |
still seeing the [asciilifeform|asciilifeform...] lolbug |
16:33 |
awt |
yeah that's fucking annoying |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
( almost certainly hearsay dupes are getting relayed from asciilifeform's station to dulapbot's ) |
16:33 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: regarding syncing of line indices between logotrons, what if we added a field containing the hash of speaker (minus hearsay), chan, timestamp, payload to the db? |
| |
↖ |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
oh and the 'perpetually 1 msg behind' thing again |
16:34 |
awt |
pestbot: ping |
16:34 |
pestbot |
pong |
16:34 |
awt |
Pestbot up to date. Not sure what's going on there. |
16:35 |
* |
asciilifeform also up to date on both sides |
16:35 |
billymg |
backfilling that field would also fix the problem of ossasepia and lobbes logs getting out of sync with nsa logs |
16:35 |
bitbot |
(asciilifeform) 2022-04-27 billymg: i wanted to include ossasepia links too, but out of sync |
16:36 |
awt |
system times are close? |
16:36 |
asciilifeform |
on both boxes within 5sec |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
current session's dbgbarf |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
( the most obv. q is, wai does it getdata almost erry time ? ) |
16:41 |
awt |
asciilifeform: actually looking at the pestbot logs I'm seeing the exact same thing. Dunno how it responds instantly. |
16:41 |
awt |
Not seeing it on my main station: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/logs/current |
16:47 |
awt |
This is the missing message from the first GETDATA request: BROADCAST (asciilifeform) 2022-04-27 billymg: i wanted to include ossasepia links too, but out of sync 2 f6daf3650616b7a533c2c8e04fbcf926c84b6626ec3aab8585479dc7098c0ea9 |
16:48 |
awt |
ok ok hmm maybe has something to do with bounces? |
16:49 |
awt |
the loggers are how many bounces apart? |
16:49 |
awt |
the loggers and bots are most likely to be farthest apart |
16:50 |
awt |
so log quotes aren't making it all the way to the other logger, and possibly poorly connected bots, such as pestbot. |
16:52 |
* |
asciilifeform found that max_bounces was set to 3 on asciilifeform's station; lessee if changing to 5 does anyffin |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
( per current spec, rec'd value is 5 ) |
16:53 |
awt |
aha default is currently 3 |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
seems to have cured (or at least temporarily?) the 1-behind thing |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
lessee if cured bot echo |
16:54 |
awt |
Will know next time bitbot quotes |
| |
↖ |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-20#1007750 |
16:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 12:51:34 asciilifeform: lessee if cured bot echo |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
echoed on asciilifeform's station ^ |
16:54 |
awt |
Yeah I see it. |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
and no longer shits out getdata after erry msg |
16:55 |
asciilifeform |
pestbot: ping |
16:55 |
pestbot |
pong |
16:55 |
asciilifeform |
^ also seems to work as expected |
16:55 |
asciilifeform |
ty awt |
16:55 |
awt |
yw! |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
still not obv to asciilifeform why a bounce cut of 3 would cause erry msg by asciilifeform himself to get 1-behind |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
bounce dist from asciilifeform's station to dulapbot's is 1 |
16:56 |
awt |
possibly stuck in buffer while waiting for getdata caused by missing log quote. |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
the getdata goes to asciilifeform's station tho, neh (where else) |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
which oughta answr ~immed |
16:57 |
awt |
yes - but later messages are stuck in the queue nonetheless until their timestamp passes the expiration |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
awt: is it possible that current blatta somehow preserves bounce counts when answering a getdata ? |
16:58 |
asciilifeform |
( rather than issuing the correct one, which is always 1 , when answering a getdata ) |
16:58 |
asciilifeform |
err, 0 |
16:59 |
awt |
asciilifeform: bounce count is logged so we can check |
16:59 |
awt |
it's the integer after the hash |
17:00 |
asciilifeform |
in the paste, they look to be correct ( if asciilifeform is reading'em right ) |
17:01 |
asciilifeform |
hmm awt is there any mark to distinguish getdata responses in the log from other msgs ? |
17:01 |
asciilifeform |
( currently dun seem to be? ) |
17:02 |
awt |
asciilifeform: no. |
17:02 |
asciilifeform |
aok |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
given what asciilifeform can see in the debug log, remains a puzzler wai a bounce cut of 3 on asciilifeform's station would cause the behaviour seen earlier in dulapbot's |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
( where setting to 5 -- appears to cure ) |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
esp. given that dulapbot's is still set to 3 |
17:06 |
awt |
Possibly blatta only checks the bounce count before rebroadcasting and not on receiving. |
17:07 |
asciilifeform |
this is correct per current spec fwiw |
17:07 |
* |
asciilifeform goes to look to make sure |
17:07 |
asciilifeform |
hm nope, lol |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
'station must reject messages which have experienced more than a preconfigured number of bounces' 3.3.1.2 |
17:08 |
* |
asciilifeform had fughoteen that he'd in fact remembered to properly specify this, lol |
17:09 |
awt |
Yeah looks like there's not bounce check on reception in blatta. |
17:10 |
asciilifeform |
bounce path from pestbot to dulapbot is still 3 tho, no ? (pestbot -> billymg -> asciilifeform -> dulapbot) |
17:10 |
asciilifeform |
so still can't figure out why a cut of 3 would've caused a loss |
| |
↖ ↖ |
17:11 |
awt |
Let's test again: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-20#1007789 |
17:11 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 17:10:56 asciilifeform: so still can't figure out why a cut of 3 would've caused a loss |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
should set on asciilifeform's station to 3 again ? |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
(atm is 5) |
17:12 |
awt |
No GETDATA from pestbot. |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
indeed no getdata's issued on its end since set to 5 |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
(since asciilifeform's station, that is, set to bounce cut 5) |
17:13 |
asciilifeform |
i'ma set it to 3 again, lessee if same as prior |
17:13 |
asciilifeform |
done |
17:13 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-20#1007789 |
17:13 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 17:10:56 asciilifeform: so still can't figure out why a cut of 3 would've caused a loss |
17:13 |
asciilifeform |
hmm |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
made absolutely no diff |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
pestbot: ping |
17:14 |
pestbot |
pong |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
still nope! |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
( the failure isn't reproducible by setting asciilifeform's station back to bounce cut 3 ) |
17:15 |
awt |
Maybe if you can find that original log quote that started it off, it might have come via a longer route |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld |
17:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 12:11:51 busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $20599.04 |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
17:16 |
awt |
I have the bounce count logged as 2 for the first quote this morning. |
17:16 |
asciilifeform |
no getdataism at all |
17:16 |
asciilifeform |
aa there we go |
17:17 |
asciilifeform |
1behind again |
17:17 |
asciilifeform |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=J4Vs |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld2 |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld3 |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=d21b |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
nao let's back to 5... |
17:18 |
awt |
pestbot also sending GETDATAs |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld1a |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld1b |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
helloworld1c |
17:19 |
awt |
You'll need to wait for the buffer to dump |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
a |
17:19 |
asciilifeform |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=fLAQ |
17:20 |
asciilifeform |
(still 1 behind atm) |
17:20 |
awt |
order_buffer_check_seconds defaults to 180 |
17:21 |
asciilifeform |
hmm |
17:21 |
awt |
order_buffer_expiration_seconds defaults to 120 |
17:23 |
asciilifeform |
hm still 1behind |
17:24 |
asciilifeform |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=GsKC |
17:24 |
awt |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=3-d1 << there are way to many GETDATA responses here |
17:25 |
asciilifeform |
loox similar to dulapbot's, but the latter's has no 'out of order' marks |
17:26 |
awt |
might need to wait two cycles for the buffer to completely clear and write everything to the long buffer. |
17:26 |
asciilifeform |
ok |
17:29 |
asciilifeform |
hm seems to have worked |
| |
↖ |
17:30 |
awt |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-20#1007838 shot |
17:30 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 17:29:41 asciilifeform: hm seems to have worked |
17:30 |
awt |
chaser |
17:30 |
asciilifeform |
still synced |
17:34 |
awt |
pestbot had to do a GETDATA when it got 'chaser' |
17:34 |
asciilifeform |
hm interesting |
17:37 |
awt |
Which is actually really weird because I do see the log quote prior to the initial receipt of 'chaser' in the pestbot station log. |
17:37 |
asciilifeform |
awt: seems as if could be a bug triggered by reordered packet arrival |
17:43 |
awt |
Could be a netchain problem. |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
awt: easily, but not yet obv. how, from the debug barf ( all the visible bounce paths were <= 3 long ) |
17:48 |
awt |
yeah I don't think it's the bounce count |
17:51 |
awt |
Issue seems to arise for stations who speak immediately after a log quote |
17:52 |
asciilifeform |
hmm, awt , what if effect from netchain 'fork' (entirely permitted situation, but is it handled correctly in blatta?) |
17:52 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. 2 msgs with shared netchain parent |
17:54 |
awt |
hmmm |
17:56 |
asciilifeform |
seems possible: speaker 'a' speaks, and he saw msg 'm', and at ~same time 'b' speaks, but he not seen it yet. 'b' ends up issuing a getdata and embargoing m. |
17:56 |
asciilifeform |
err, embargoing a's msg |
18:00 |
awt |
Yes |
18:02 |
* |
asciilifeform had a thought recently, that just about all of the gnarly embargo buffer logic in pest protocol is only req'd because irc frontend is a 'teletype', i.e. immutable |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
if were mutable (a la heathen chats) would not need to embargo, in principle |
| |
↖ ↖ |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
simply, we aint there just yet. |
18:03 |
awt |
what would be an example of mutation? |
18:09 |
asciilifeform |
awt: well, for starters, all replays; the receipt of any out-of-netchain-order msg; the eviction of a hearsay by an immediate |
18:10 |
asciilifeform |
... and messages with absent chain predecessor (net or self) could, in 'mutational' pestron, be displayed immed, rather than buffered |
18:10 |
asciilifeform |
naturally this would require a custom gui thing, in place of irc teletype, tho. |
18:11 |
awt |
ah ok gotcha |
18:11 |
asciilifeform |
( and a quite different interface for bots, somehow ) |
18:11 |
asciilifeform |
ahaha lol getdataism again |
18:11 |
asciilifeform |
triggered, evidently, but asciilifeform speaking 'similt' with awt |
18:11 |
asciilifeform |
*by |
18:12 |
asciilifeform |
loox like we have a reasonable repro for the bug, lol |
18:12 |
awt |
indeed |
18:12 |
awt |
this is something I never tested |
18:12 |
asciilifeform |
*simult |
18:13 |
asciilifeform |
also loox as if asciilifeform's station aint answering dulapbot's getdata's most of the time |
18:14 |
asciilifeform |
illustr. |
18:15 |
asciilifeform |
and nao 3+ msgs 'behind' |
18:15 |
awt |
yeah they're likely in the order buffer |
18:17 |
awt |
You can decrease the interval on the bot station to dump 'em out faster for a temporary fix |
18:17 |
asciilifeform |
right |
18:18 |
asciilifeform |
( high on asciilifeform's wishlist is some means for turning knobs on a bot station w/out disconnecting the bot; but 'can't have errything at 1ce' ) |
18:20 |
* |
asciilifeform current thought : possibly when 'master' mode implemented, bot can take pest cmds from master via direct msg |
18:27 |
awt |
That would be nice. Wouldn't need another interface, like the thought I just had which is the ability to periodically reload the config from a config file that could be edited. |
18:28 |
asciilifeform |
that'd be useful, so long as config includes literally all knobbable state |
18:28 |
asciilifeform |
( which would probably be a bitch to keep in sync with console-changed knob settings ) |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
imho 'take cmds from master' would be the Right Thing for 'headless' stations |
18:32 |
awt |
yep |
18:34 |
asciilifeform |
awt: theoretically could still operate a pestron via irc frontend, but perhaps the Right Thing would be for the buffer logic to live in a separate glue (given as irc offers no way to represent 'changing the past') |
18:34 |
asciilifeform |
... whereas pestron per se could be substantially less 'stateful' than currently |
| |
↖ |
18:36 |
asciilifeform |
(conceivably, the hearsay buffer could stay, given as hearsay eviction typically takes place within ~1s, packets are ~never delayed by moar than fraction of a second) |
18:37 |
asciilifeform |
the [file:///home/stas/pest/FA/b/pest_spec/pest.html#412-order-buffer]['order buffer'] otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron. |
18:37 |
asciilifeform |
grr |
18:38 |
asciilifeform |
... the 'order buffer' otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron. |
18:38 |
awt |
that would be really nice |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
18:39 |
awt |
Could create a relatively simple curses app for display |
18:39 |
asciilifeform |
( atm order buffer dun add to the 'l2+ spam resistance' of a station at all, cuz contents get flushed to console anyway even if no answer to getdata is received... ) |
18:40 |
asciilifeform |
awt: asciilifeform in particular historically not relishes console irc clients (tho using one atm for pestnet) given as they break cut&paste horridly |
18:40 |
asciilifeform |
(inserting spurious line endings) |
18:41 |
* |
asciilifeform also on most machines hasn't a shell which supports utfism |
18:42 |
signpost |
would be nice if one's pest station provided a sane interface to which w/e UI can be affixed. |
18:42 |
signpost |
IRC client as UI comes with all sorts of baggage, but the client and server distinctions are still useful. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
18:42 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: indeed. but in 'mutable' scheme contemplated above, would have to be sumthing other than irc |
18:42 |
asciilifeform |
afaik there aint any off-shelf substitute |
18:43 |
asciilifeform |
( nor do any, afaik, off-shelf chat clients , support concept of a mutable log ) |
18:43 |
signpost |
nah, and this is the proper time to reevaluate, when temporary measure (IRC UI) threatens to backflow into the design. |
18:44 |
asciilifeform |
ugh moar getdataism for ancient msgs despite having supposedly synced 2d ago on dulapbot |
18:44 |
* |
signpost just emphasizes that blatta growing a ncurses UI directly would be inferior to blatta providing a local API interface with which to pestulate. |
18:45 |
signpost |
allows both the ncurses UI and bots to interact with the same station. |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: imho entirely reasonable to separate 'skin' and pestron. simply must remind that there aint atm anyfffin in the way of a suitable 'skin', nor would be particularly simple to bake outta existing chatrons afaik |
18:46 |
signpost |
nope, 100% agreed. |
18:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 14:39:49 signpost[asciilifeform]: oh, they probably have a page-layout: pls-no-page-numbers-plspls; and so on. |
18:46 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-20#1007899 << this is horrendous and, observe, awt , our logs are again outta sync, despite asciilifeform having given the dulapbot station ample time to sync |
18:46 |
asciilifeform |
(and by all indications this morning was 100% synced) |
18:46 |
awt |
asciilifeform: perhaps signpost's message had an old selfchain/netchain. |
18:47 |
asciilifeform |
possibly, tho doesn't explain why triggered massive cascade of getdata's from dulapbot (which supposedly 'had errything') |
18:47 |
awt |
in anycase somehow not everything is getting synced to the bot station initially. |
18:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-06-20 14:39:49 signpost[asciilifeform]: oh, they probably have a page-layout: pls-no-page-numbers-plspls; and so on. |
18:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YgDo << what these oddities look like on dulapbot end |
18:48 |
signpost |
dulapbot is just trying to trigger me with rubbing CSS in my face. |
18:48 |
signpost |
it wont work; I can't even feel it anymore. |
18:48 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
18:48 |
awt |
Same GETDATA barrage happening on the pestbot station. |
18:48 |
asciilifeform |
^ from above, can clearly see that asciilifeform's station is relaying obvious dupes to dulapbot's |
18:49 |
* |
asciilifeform resigns to fact of having to zap the #p log on dulap again at some pt, after bug fixed. cuz atm it's again fulla oldrubbish |
18:50 |
awt |
Seems like netchain handling is bad, since on a new station, some or all messages from a handle don't start syncing until they speak. |
18:50 |
asciilifeform |
this is why prod |
18:51 |
asciilifeform |
imho a logotron where gibblets month+ old can randomly appear in the midst of conversation aint of much use (not to mention will insta-desync from e.g. billymg's) |
18:52 |
asciilifeform |
the whole 'teletype' paradigm is, as signpost points out, leaking into pestronics to much annoyance |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
possibly billymg's logger worx correctly because >1 peer. or because had ~100% uptime for ~whole duration of pestnet to date. nfi which. but new stations oughta work even if with 1-peer link , lol |
18:54 |
awt |
yeah I'm going to have to run some specific tests to figure out what's going on. No idea rn. |
18:54 |
asciilifeform |
ty awt |
18:54 |
awt |
np |
18:55 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
18:57 |
* |
asciilifeform will leave dulapbot and its station running, possibly can help in awt's debugging. but recs folx not to rely on dulapbot's #p log for any other purpose |