#asciilifeform | 2022-06-17

Thirdly, lying to a human one doesn't seek the trust of is another manner of lying entirely from the usual.

00:02

signpost: this time your word salad lost me.

00:03

My word salad tastes better.

00:03

I suppose that if I were paying back a debt, then my job search would look completely different.

00:04

billymg

adlai|text: "redux" is a state management framework for "react", a frontend javashit framework for sending bloat to web clients

00:04

*

adlai|text did spend part of his career paying back a debt to a bank... quite a stupid situation, and long gone.

00:04

Don't lie to the father-in-law, but don't feel bad about lying to the bank clerk.

00:05

I could have literally hung up the phone call to the bank instead of getting talked into taking a loan.

00:05

er, phone call *from* the bank

00:06

few months later, I want to pay back the loan, after having found a job, and earned more in salary than the loan amount... "oh, wait, what about all the interest you'll owe us in future months!"

00:07

sometimes, the varying attitudes towards honesty astonish me.

00:08

yet another reason to get reincarnated as some nonverbal vermin posthaste.

00:09

nobody judges the roach for dangling deliberately ambiguous antecedents, only for existing.

00:10

There's no need to wait.

00:11

ehh, my attitudes on suicide have matured quite a bit over the years. there are things worth suffering over, even if I do consider life better lived with a planned end instead of "whatever kills me, kills me"

00:11

I meant it's never too late to become vermin.

00:13

the wide view is quite important in such matters.

00:13

e.g., in my case, since I don't consider myself particularly beneficial to my society, then if I were to begin drawing a disability check, I'd see myself as a parasite.

00:14

*

adlai|text does not consider himself owed anything by the abstract 'society'; individuals, of course, always individual cases, can argue endlessly with individuals.

00:14

yet another thing various semitic religions get correct!

00:19

signpost

adlai|text: I was commenting on you saying you can't buzzword.

00:23

He should give a presentation on the Internet iceberg.

~ 34 minutes ~

00:57

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-16#1107207 << 'freelance consultant' 'no, can't tell you where' problemsolved

00:57

Logged on 2022-06-16 19:54:01 adlai|text: my resume still is 'programmer' resume; simply, has great big "began academic study, then went on indefinite vacation" section covering past few years.

00:58

... if yer any good at theatrics, drop hints that it was @ local gestapo/abwehr etc

00:58

bonus if you can minic the appropriate mannerisms

00:58

*mimic

~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~

02:09

thimbronion et al : yer latest test appears to have made pestnet uninhabitable until the decoding idiocy fixed -- asciilifeform's station dies immed. on getdata ( tried 3x nao )

02:13

*

asciilifeform upped to 9976, lessee

02:17

adlai|text: had anuther thought re this -- gotta wonder if adlai|text was angling to work as 'quant' rather than lowly disposable servant ( 1 upside of being the latter -- nobody gives rat's arse that you were 'embroiled in bitcoinism' )

02:17

Logged on 2022-06-16 19:49:24 adlai|text: and, disappointingly often, "you had anything to do with cryptocurrency!? gtfo, terrorist"

02:17

Logged on 2022-06-14 14:15:41 phf: and that's also the kind of information that business shares with a programmer while standing at the cooler :p

02:25

adlai|text: ... if so, expect it'll work approx as well as enlisting in army and asking to be commissioned straight off as colonel

02:26

( while, for bonus, e.g. coming from wrong side of iron curtain )

~ 31 minutes ~

02:58

http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch.thimbronion.sig << for those who got blown up by the smiley bomb

↖ ↖ ↖

02:58

*

asciilifeform using ^ , worx a++ , ty thimbronion

03:05

signpost

lol, ty thimbronion!

03:06

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-16#1107240 << incidentally was not my test but when billymg quoted smilies into #pest. Initially only killed those directly connected to the logbot. Then when asciilifeform and billymg updated with the fix, they spread the contagion.

03:06

Logged on 2022-06-16 22:06:44 asciilifeform: thimbronion et al : yer latest test appears to have made pestnet uninhabitable until the decoding idiocy fixed -- asciilifeform's station dies immed. on getdata ( tried 3x nao )

03:06

thimbronion: precisely how one'd expect 'bomb' to propagate, neh

03:07

*

thimbronion had vague idea that uniturd was declase while implementing. But should have at least handled the possibility.

03:07

uniturd in msg text is permitted by spec

03:08

( only in handles -- not )

03:16

( see also )

03:18

asciilifeform: yep. Blatta was implemented before you defined the datatypes thus. Maybe there was something about it in the spec at that time but oh well fixed now.

03:20

thimbronion: iirc added the explicit types section only in most recent ver

03:21

( but previously did say ' asciilifeform won't use a chat where can't cyrillic at least ' )

03:21

at any rate a++, loox to be fixed

~ 2 hours 2 minutes ~

05:23

How should a client handle a slightly-belligerent peer? Ignoring the message is no option, due to the chain, requiring the client at least remember to not attempt to get it.

~ 5 hours 45 minutes ~

11:09

https://www.madcowprod.com/2021/09/30/murder-underneath-ponzi-palms/

~ 2 hours 26 minutes ~

13:35

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-16#1107247 << in which gay fuzzing reveals bugs, and they are quickly fixed. tyvm thimbronion

13:35

Logged on 2022-06-16 22:55:48 thimbronion: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch.thimbronion.sig << for those who got blown up by the smiley bomb

~ 2 hours 45 minutes ~

16:21

shinohai: no worries - patch had been in the oven for a while.

16:24

👍

16:24

lol

16:25

discourse here is degrading rapidly 😂

16:25

lol

16:28

I'll know I've fucked up when verisimilitude tries to start conversing entirely in emojis.

16:30

signpost

so long as it doesn't support his custom set of nazi furry emojis.

16:31

卍

16:32

😂😂😂

16:35

*

shinohai is at last back at desk, prepares to update blatta ....

16:36

I've had 0 luck trying to remove the ssl junk from weechat for use on pentacle, I fear this will be giant undertaking.

16:36

should rename it to blatta-xp

~ 1 hours 28 minutes ~

18:05

fun https://securityboulevard.com/2022/06/apple-m1-flaw-cant-be-fixed-pacman-panic/

18:06

It's boring; oh look, another hole in the Swiss cheese.

18:07

likely was a designed usg 'nobus', lol

18:08

"attacks a security mechanism in ARM, introduced in ARMv8.3. They have employed the Apple M1 processor … but it is very likely that many other ARMv8-based processors will have the same limitation."

18:09

*

asciilifeform had nfi these even purported to 'iron boundscheck', lol

18:09

Eventually, the processor doesn't even implement its model, because it is so broken that they haphazardly restrict it. I call this quality Omnipresent Mismatch.

18:10

arguably the funniest hardware bug is "rowhammer" etc, where fix has made all new processors non-trivially slower

18:12

"Yo dawg, we heard you had a vulnerability mitigator so we designed a vulnerability to mitigate your vulnerability mitigator."

18:15

punkman: lulzily, the rowhammer 'mitigation' was bypassed almost immediately

18:15

(trilema) 2015-10-27 asciilifeform: if you are unwilling to treat the problem as something to be abolished AS A LOGICAL CLASS - you are stuck with idiot epicycles

18:16

( the ~working~ pill, ftr, is simply to use ecc ram exclusively, lol )

18:16

Wait, a simple parity check is the only correction needed?

18:17

They clearly don't want to solve the problem, then.

18:17

verisimilitude: ohnoez 9th bit costs $!1111

18:18

( in actuality deeper, moar cynical scam -- given as ecc aint optional for serious server , intel artificially crippled all product lines other than 'xeon' to kill support for ecc; while selling 'xeon' at 15x the usual going price of similar cpu )

18:18

I've read as much, yes.

18:19

1 of the reasons asciilifeform still uses exclusively amd 'opteron' in x86 boxen

~ 37 minutes ~

18:57

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-17#1107261 << 'gag'

18:57

Logged on 2022-06-17 01:21:16 verisimilitude: How should a client handle a slightly-belligerent peer? Ignoring the message is no option, due to the chain, requiring the client at least remember to not attempt to get it.

19:10

Cutting his head off is one solution, sure.

19:11

Well, cutting off his head, that is.

19:13

There's a much better way to guarantee a seven-bit code, asciilifeform.

19:14

Use the leftover bits to encode another seven-bit character.

19:16

Make the field twenty-eight octets, and encode thirty-two characters all the same.

19:17

Prevent it by construction.

19:18

That's how I design my numerical formats.

19:30

A bit always set to a certain value is wasted space.

19:35

Really, even that's wasteful.

19:36

A six-bit code fits the requirements exactly.

19:37

The sixty-fourth value could be the padding value.

19:40

So, twenty-four octets encode thirty-two characters, leaving a nice eight octets for something else.

19:41

The best way to eliminate edge cases is to remove the ability to express them, asciilifeform.

19:44

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789_

19:48

I'll make it more obvious that the zeroeth value is padding.

19:48

!abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789_

~ 55 minutes ~

20:43

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-17#1107300 << ignoring for a moment the cpu cost of the bitstuffing crackpottery -- there's such a thing as word alignment; observe that (almost) all data structures in pest are aligned

20:43

Logged on 2022-06-17 15:13:59 verisimilitude: Make the field twenty-eight octets, and encode thirty-two characters all the same.

20:43

this aint accidental

20:44

I know.

20:46

meanwhile, in misc. irons, apparently a complete chinese-style production like (x-y paste jetter, pick'n'place, conveyor, reflow oven) can be had naodays for ~15k $ , comes in 1 shipping container

↖ ↖ ↖

20:46

Logged on 2022-06-15 23:27:45 asciilifeform: in wholly unrelated n00se, apparently sipm can be had naodays for 20-30$, rather than 100-200

20:46

signpost et al ^ may find interesting

20:47

pick-n-place is the hardest part

20:47

*

asciilifeform quite aware of this

20:48

may or may not change the balance of 'only a complete fool would try to bake irons naodays' -- depending on 'what'

20:48

Logged on 2020-12-16 13:06:17 asciilifeform: cgra: i ought to make clear that i do not atm have any plans to mass-produce any kind of irons (beyond handful of prototypes for own use.) simply because it -- afaik -- cannot be done economically.

20:49

*production line

20:53

The octet and its consequences have been a disaster for protocol design.

20:53

verisimilitude: incidentally can't 'prevent by construction' given that not all 7bit chars valid in handles

20:54

( 3.2.4 )

20:55

verisimilitude: attempts to run entirely away from the fact that yer on a physical machine, with elements of given physical size -- are doomed to comical failure

20:56

picture an architect who 'fuck learning about materials, i oughta be able to make house any shape i want!!'

20:59

I explained how, asciilifeform.

20:59

A six-bit character does prevent it by construction.

21:00

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-17#1107311 << let's say we wanna permit e.g. '$', to mark folx folx connecting via luser gates.

21:00

bitbot

(pest) 2022-06-08 asciilifeform: awt: was thinking about a hypothetical blatta mod for emplacing e.g. a n00b gate in place of dulapnet;

21:00

Logged on 2022-06-17 15:45:47 verisimilitude: !abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789_

21:00

Logged on 2022-06-06 13:43:52 asciilifeform: signpost: would be handy to have it in #a (which asciilifeform plans to keep around as a n00b door, until figures out a way to cleanly bridge an irc door to pestnet) but not essential imho

21:00

nao can't, cuz 6bits? lol

21:01

That wasn't part of the requirements.

21:01

I'm an architect and am able to make my house any shape I want here, asciilifeform.

21:02

make, make. but dun be surprised if others 'live in it ? i wouldn't walk under it!'(tm)(r)(h.hughes)

21:04

Now, it does so happen I found a way to make an Elision representation fit both requirements well, but those are still vague and the machine matters less; I'll see what happens with that eventually.

21:04

anyone recall the (brothers grimm?) analogue of the procrustes story, where stuck-up princess wants errything 'just-so', and gets her corset laced as tight as it'll go, to 'fit exactly', then at some pt can't take deep enuff breath & chokes

21:04

Look at under what we currently live, asciilifeform.

21:05

verisimilitude: good % of it came from precisely this style of premature optimization.

21:05

Don't lecture to me about what people want, when it's clear the average person is a total fool who will accept whatever computer be given unto him.

21:05

fughet 'avg person'. lace own corset as tightly as you like.

21:05

No, I don't see it that way.

21:06

Look at UNIX. There are stupid little custom formats, but not like this. They only did it in order to enable ostensibly generic tooling to be used.

21:07

Look at how I write, asciilifeform; I'm plenty smart enough to satisfy myself and the typical machine, so that's what I'll end up doing in all likelihood.

21:08

lucky job that early unix people couldn't rely on having 8bit byte (look at 1st ed. of k&r) or thing'd be even moar infested with gnarly microoptimizations than already is

21:08

I can trim and massage and design until it perfectly fits my requirements and also adheres to octet-alignment.

21:09

see e.g. naggum's :

21:09

'Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two. You're not in Kansas, anymore. C is the language of the poor farmer village where the allocation of every seed and livestock matters, where taxes are low and public service non-existent. Appreciating the value of a large language is evidently hard for many people, just like many people find themselv

21:09

es miserable in the big city and go to great lengths to create a small village for themselves in the city where everything is like it used to be where they came from. Common Lisp can accomodate people who want to program in any old language and re-create what they are used to, but if they want to get the most ouf ot it, the only way to do it is to adapt to the language and accept that somebody else may be better than

21:09

you are at designing languages.'

21:10

verisimilitude: and when you want to go back and change sumthing ? thenwat

21:10

'oh never' ?

21:10

That issue keeps coming up, asciilifeform, but if I just think about it for years, I can avoid ever needing to do that.

21:11

There will be versioning anyway.

21:12

verisimilitude: if you see yerself as involved in pure mathematics, rather than aiming to actually solve sumthing in physical reality w/ a comp on sumthing resembling human timescale -- the machine is arguably a distraction, and you oughta be working w/ pen & paper

↖ ↖

21:12

Common Lisp still uses CAR and CDR.

21:13

cuz composable. cddar caddr etc

21:13

This isn't that, per se, asciilifeform.

21:13

Compare Elision to Loper-OS.

21:14

verisimilitude: it's stuck waiting on access to ic fab ?

21:14

or how ?

21:14

Good; Elision is stuck waiting on me.

21:15

My point is I can't expect Elision to make much sense to others until I breathe life into it.

21:16

verisimilitude: sure. see phf's link from last wk tho, a notbad piece on what happens when folx dismiss the physicality of the machine

21:16

Logged on 2022-06-11 22:48:38 phf: asciilifeform: there's a shout out to you in an article that's floating around https://applied-langua.ge/posts/i-dont-want-to-go-to-chel-c.html#org12582b4

21:16

Some of these questions and comments are on the level of ``but if the machine remembers state, how can I reboot when it fucks up'', to me.

21:17

verisimilitude: approx as interesting as a hypothetical 1950s idjit, transplanted to vlsi era , asking 'if i can't unscrew individual transistor in ic, how can i swap it like a triode when it burns out?'

21:19

asciilifeform refs to this kind of 'thinking' as 'partial differentiation' and it is a typical leper's bell of dimwits , not usually worth explaining anyffing to

21:19

( they're ~guaranteed to come up with infinite series of such 'triodes' )

21:21

Yes.

21:22

I do recall asciilifeform writing about replacing capacitors, however.

21:22

they're replaceable, wat. and last 10-20y

21:23

There are certain characteristics of good design that transcend the current state.

21:24

(re 'differentiation', per legend there was a u.s. army test for idiocy in early 20th c: 'know that the last car of a train typically gets the worst of a train wreck. propose a solution.' a certain common type of moron would often suggest 'remove the last car' )

21:24

It's good to keep that in-mind, lest one design something that, say, only works well with AVX-512.

21:25

Make the last car stronger, say.

21:26

or load it w/ things that aint breakable. can think of 2-3 not wholly moronic possible answers

21:26

but some folx insist 'remove last car'

21:26

reveals certain type of braindamage.

21:26

Maybe they were mathematicians.

21:27

mathematician, per stereotype, would ask for an infinite train, having no last car, neh

21:27

That also.

21:27

circular train!

21:27

'computer scientist' would ask for the train to be circular

21:27

lol

21:27

adlai|text beat asciilifeform to the 'answer'

21:28

luddite : 'that's whatcha get for getting involved with trains'

21:28

*

adlai|text did actually encounter article in "The Economist" describing circular trains around cities, providing an intermediary moving platform between intracity trams and intercity high-speed trains.

21:29

it was a cool article and it made great toilet reading while I was high out of my mind.

21:29

author prolly also 'high outta mind'

21:29

I do think about micro-optimizations for Elision systems, but I try to regard them as curiosities.

21:30