Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2022-06-10 | 2022-06-12 →
00:01 phf despite the fact that they didn't serve our purposes still great hacker machines, as demonstrated by the fact that you can still find them new and unboxed around $500 across different vendors
00:13 verisimilitude My kingdom for a good computer.
~ 2 hours 26 minutes ~
02:40 vex those noaa charts are neato phf. the australian hydrographic service has no equivalent at any price.
02:40 vex also, that stretch of water looks amazing
02:48 vex the chart is even up to date with corrections
02:55 vex I do like deadtree charts tho. walk into mapshop and cartographer makes corrections while u wait.
03:01 vex can even hang it on the wall and take imaginary voyages
~ 34 minutes ~
03:36 signpost phf: yeah that thing looks decent. folding flat would be convenient.
03:37 signpost pinebook was already sitting here useless; figured I'd see what could be wrung from it.
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
04:44 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105704 << asciilifeform still has that one. and the magick cable. tore the mousepad jack tho during one of the various vivisections of it
04:44 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-10 19:59:00 phf: despite the fact that they didn't serve our purposes still great hacker machines, as demonstrated by the fact that you can still find them new and unboxed around $500 across different vendors
04:44 asciilifeform 500 $ imho is a bit much for a rk-on-wheels
04:45 vex hey, this is a tundo. unobtanium in oz. deserves the best
04:45 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105678 << still have 'hackrf' , using it as a kind of glorified 'grundig' for sw
04:45 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-10 18:00:40 signpost: vex: yeah, I have a few SDRs laying around
04:46 vex also needs a hektik blower
04:47 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105690 << if anyone discovers how to stand up vga on that thing
04:47 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-10 19:07:57 verisimilitude: Well, I'll gladly replace it with a working Gentoo, if that gets finished.
04:47 asciilifeform ( tho iirc phf on c101 simply uses fb + emacs )
04:47 asciilifeform ^ oughta work on 'pine' -- same , afaik, chipset
04:48 phf asciilifeform: c101 is like 10", where's pine is a believe a full sized notebook
04:48 asciilifeform phf: aha
04:49 * asciilifeform has both on 1 shelf, gathering dust presently
04:49 phf also http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-20#1097670
04:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-20 13:48:12 phf: i change the console colors and fonts so that it doesn't look too "hacker", and it gives me ~~9 hours of emacs, sbcl
04:49 asciilifeform the 'pine' (or at least my unit) has annoying 'euro' kbd
04:49 asciilifeform 9h of emacs w/out 'hoover' fan is neat
04:50 * asciilifeform fuckinghates lappy fans
04:50 phf fast enough™
04:50 vex right? if I wanna put a hairdryer on my nuts, that's my decision
04:50 * asciilifeform resolves to find & test that mouse patch for 'pine' signpost mentioned
04:51 asciilifeform factory fw made for an ~unusable mouse
04:51 asciilifeform bought the nvme board for that thing, too, but not tried
04:51 asciilifeform and the debug plug
04:52 phf доработать напильником
04:53 asciilifeform ^
04:54 vex how many pinebooks out there?
04:55 * asciilifeform doesn't know
04:55 vex I doubt the factory even knows
04:55 asciilifeform likely not so many, was a 'labour of luvv' sorta thing
04:55 asciilifeform some d00d baked'em fg-style
04:58 vex where the kitchen is a factory
04:59 asciilifeform vex: well no, fg was commissioned in an actual factory; and evidently 'pine' similarly, has even spiffy magnesium shell
04:59 vex final assembly was alf's kitchen tho right?
05:00 asciilifeform vex: screwing the analogue boards in, fw-ing, testing
05:01 * asciilifeform actually did bake # of analogue brds on frying pan, and some buyers in fact got these
05:01 vex neato
05:02 asciilifeform if yours has 1 or moar blue boards, is 1 of ^
05:03 asciilifeform paste syringe, vacuum pincer, frying pan.
05:03 * asciilifeform still has over9000 blue blanks...
05:03 vex ooh
05:05 asciilifeform they work exactly same as the red ones.
05:07 asciilifeform the syringe pump & vacuum worked off same chinese horror , rather medical-looking contraption w/ pressure gauges & valves, connected to ancient clattering 'fridge' compressor. still have these...
05:08 vex epic
05:10 vex presumably erry factory has a guy who can ^, but getting everyone on the same page needs a plane ticvket or two
05:10 asciilifeform this, yes was in kitchen, of asciilifeform's old roach flat
05:11 asciilifeform tip : ir thermometer for the 'reflow curve' on frying pan
05:11 asciilifeform otherwise get 'grey' joints
05:12 vex try spaining that to hk without a repeat order
05:12 vex explaining
05:13 asciilifeform board house actually fucked the test batch
05:13 vex expected
05:13 vex did you whip them with a stongly worded email?
05:13 asciilifeform 'oh he had nfi the shield would draw heat away from the ic'
05:13 asciilifeform vex: some backn'forth w/ microscope jpgs, they redid
05:14 vex that's pretty fucking neato
05:15 vex made in usa if i'm not mistaken?
05:15 asciilifeform texasistan
05:15 vex yep
05:16 vex you guys are pretty good at making stuff
05:17 asciilifeform upstairs fella brewed moonshine, in a ridiculous-looking hand-sewn automated rig. sometimes brought some down
05:18 vex oh, i'm fucking going, that's all there is to it
05:18 asciilifeform long ago escaped
05:18 vex him, or you?
05:18 asciilifeform both
05:18 vex lol
05:18 asciilifeform that house long since ~uninhabited
05:19 asciilifeform (per local legend, was a whorehouse in late 19th)
05:19 vex were you were the last roach keeper?
05:19 asciilifeform not afaik last
05:20 vex prolly haunted
05:20 asciilifeform railroad in back yard
05:21 asciilifeform supposedly was a favourite spot for emo chix to splat
05:21 asciilifeform city put in fence
05:21 vex I hope oldmate has a license for his moonshine now. cool story on the bottle
05:21 asciilifeform nfi where went
05:22 phf http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-11#1105780 << sounds like one of those Poe metaphors
05:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-11 01:16:42 asciilifeform: that house long since ~uninhabited
05:22 asciilifeform 'house of usher' lol
05:27 * asciilifeform not misses it, had rats easily the size of small cat, could and did carry entire loaf of bread (found once in the bath)
05:29 vex good move
05:30 asciilifeform cheap tho
05:30 * asciilifeform bbl
05:30 vex meh, everythings relative
05:30 vex me, i'd hang around for the emo chix
05:31 phf there aren't any emo chix anymore, vex. they are gone. it's all tiktokers
05:31 vex oh fuck, what a disater
05:35 vex ^no cynicism intended, I want black bangs
05:36 vex vampish ladies on the precipice
05:46 phf too many bpds
05:46 vex what is bpds?
05:47 vex oh
05:48 vex I've got a song for that
05:49 phf vex https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_nj2LOW4AADPG-?format=jpg
05:50 vex bob dylan said it first "when your head gets heavy on hte border line"
05:50 vex stop
05:53 phf vex: i also have soundtrack for that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQoXIMGBCZU
05:54 vex smokeys
05:57 vex heavy shit
05:59 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je4Eg77YSSA
06:02 phf vex: since we're still on the subject of bpd girls https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=q2uyfDSqZHI
06:02 vex premium audio. I can dance to this
06:04 phf we used to go urban exploring with my friend and his bpd girlfrield, who later became my girlfriend. we'd climb onto rooftops at night, smoke clove cigarettes and listen to the smiths, death in june, current 93. what time.
06:05 vex did I say already that I'm glad you didn't die?
06:05 phf https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=3e6D4mqpx9s
06:07 phf thanks, vex
06:10 vex whatever cunt
06:10 phf oh oh also erik satie! but also alien sex fiend https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=Bfm7cOJfOjk or like souther death cult https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=LNN7dt1lJgQ
06:11 phf i miss subcultures, bros
06:11 vex you could dj at a vamp club
06:12 phf i actually managed to catch the tail end of goth parties, that weren't all cybergoths and wumpscut kind post-industrial shit
06:12 vex I'll be lurking near the booth. can I get a song? wait vex
06:15 phf drinking red wine, awkwardly channeling homoeroticism of tom cruise as lestat, aha
06:15 vex i'll be on all the lsd.
06:15 phf it's funny how /that/ subculture just completely and utterly disappeared, not even morphed into anything
06:16 phf ^ https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=zq7xyjU-jsU
06:18 vex indeed need video for the kids to phreak on
06:23 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSy2DcATYUo
06:24 phf ahaha
06:27 phf https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=ptfZ3IPkAOY let's not go to camelot, it's a silly place
06:39 vex i gots to go
06:39 vex big love
06:40 phf laters
06:40 phf i made a mistake of hacking on lisp machine code again, which means i'm up way past any kind of reasonable bed time
~ 8 hours 56 minutes ~
15:37 asciilifeform phf: what were you doing with the lispm?
15:40 * asciilifeform not powered up his for rather long time
15:40 phf asciilifeform: i have a group of frens who are working on cadr/usim. i periodically do things also
15:40 asciilifeform a that one
15:41 asciilifeform neat
15:41 phf e.g. "we" got system 98 working recently. it's mostly a piece of shit :)
15:42 * asciilifeform not overly fond of card but is defo 'better than nuffin' and can see wai archaeologists continue to dig
15:42 dulapbot Logged on 2020-02-11 16:30:18 asciilifeform: 'cadr' was designed to be buildable with the off-the-shelf discrete semiconductors ('bitslice') of its day, and as a consequence extremely baroque. 3600 inherited this gnarl.
15:43 phf it's also ancient development practices, which i'm usually all for, but this is the case where some moved on made sense. global package level state in dynamic variables kind of things
15:43 phf busy waiting on memory state
15:43 asciilifeform 'they just wanted it to work'
15:43 phf yah
15:44 phf bugs.text is not "how do we make it better" but "discovered this magic sequence of getting zwei unstuck from particular luser state"
15:45 * asciilifeform erry time dug into the extant sources, ran into ^ and barfed
15:46 asciilifeform the 'we just want it to work' 'no one has time to rewrite in a way that makes sense' thing unfortunately ~not~ invented in modern time, but goes quite far back
15:46 phf to their credit they were still building "ford vs ferrari" kind of American skunkworks kind of project, "jimmy, rig that wire, gc is going at 11, and we on the last loop of space trajectory!"
15:47 asciilifeform defo had this flavour. re-wirewrapping of running machine while 3 d00dz fidget w/ oscilloscope, etc
15:48 phf (everyone involved would've been played by mat damon and leonardo dicaprio, if anyone at all cared)
15:49 asciilifeform is wai asciilifeform moar into bolix archaeology than cadr; bolix was at least halfway into 'remove the wirewrap hacks and refine to logical design'
15:50 phf ftr i have all the bits to cold boot a genera..
15:50 asciilifeform tho suffered own 'resistance of the medium' pile of hax
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
16:57 * asciilifeform somehow was under impression that cadr was ~100% emulated yrs ago. evidently not quite ?
17:01 * asciilifeform recalls many yrs ago , tracked down a surviver of lmi co. and persuaded him to post errything he had re their 'k-machine'. but broke teeth against this material, it was from where they had already mostly ran outta dough and did not quite add up to a viable system, pile of somewhat interesting sketches & coad but w/ heavy admixture of 'vapour'
17:04 asciilifeform ( an' see also.. )
17:04 dulapbot Logged on 2020-08-12 11:38:18 asciilifeform: (2) and (3) the pertinent items. it was how lmi & smbx were funded. the problem with these is that they are both ~lying contests~.
17:09 verisimilitude The current ``startups'' are also lying contests, on a much grander scale.
17:10 asciilifeform verisimilitude: noshit
17:10 asciilifeform verisimilitude: observe, with many fewer legs still attached vestigially to the snake than were then
17:11 verisimilitude Yes, this is what makes it so disgusting to know how the Lisp Machine companies failed.
17:11 asciilifeform not far from asciilifeform's chair there for instance is a princely bldg housing a, shit thee not, 'quantum cloud computing' 'startup', funded to 1e8+$ and peddling stock
17:12 verisimilitude Let me guess: They've yet to build anything?
17:13 asciilifeform verisimilitude: they build large, very costly and very impressive (to bureaucrats) rube goldberg machines bristling with elaborately machined vacuum fittings, electron guns, etc etc
17:13 asciilifeform in the finest tradition of 17th c. alchemists.
17:15 asciilifeform ... or take these folx, who not only building but ~selling~ (to tbtf corps) similar kit, 1e7+$ a pop, and 'it dun actually DO anyffin' not being any kinda obstacle whatsoever
17:15 verisimilitude I tried to get a Common Lisp job there once.
17:15 asciilifeform since late '90s, even.
17:15 verisimilitude I didn't try very hard, but still.
17:16 asciilifeform verisimilitude: picture if you had landed that job. 'i make the finest xyz' 'but it's ultimately to blink coloured lights impressively to land next nsa grant' 'it'll WORK! anydaynao!11'
17:17 asciilifeform errybody knows about kepler, but historically very few 'court astrologers' were kepler.
17:19 verisimilitude I don't have a ``work ethic'' when it comes to employment, only when I give a shit about my personal projects.
17:19 asciilifeform the most grim lesson there imho is that the '80s lispm corps were funded in exactly same way. and once the 'better liars' came along with a 'sexier' spiel, the lispms kaput.
17:19 asciilifeform verisimilitude: not so many personal projects 'escaped' from these.
17:20 phf http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-11#1105859 << yes, but brad parker's usim came with system 78, we've been trying to cold boot system 98, which has worked. there's also files for 99, which has rudimentary common lisp. there's also 12x, which is one of the last mit versions.
17:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-11 12:55:26 asciilifeform: somehow was under impression that cadr was ~100% emulated yrs ago. evidently not quite ?
17:20 asciilifeform in asciilifeform's pov, if you must labour in salt mines, far better to slave in those which as far as possible from yer own 'personal project' interest.
17:20 asciilifeform phf: a, makes sense
17:20 verisimilitude I agree, asciilifeform.
17:20 * asciilifeform did not even know there had been a rudimentary commonlisp for cadr-likes
17:22 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-11#1105879 Elaborate.
17:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-06-11 13:17:15 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not so many personal projects 'escaped' from these.
17:24 asciilifeform verisimilitude: 'golden age of lispm' left surprisingly few publicly-avail. artifacts from 'personal proj'. much was trapped in copyrasty limbo for long enuff to become irrelevant; other things ended up buried in tapes which ~nobody can read, feeding mice in attics; others yet have their materials but old, disillusioned, and/or changed fields entirely
17:26 phf it's orthogonal to your point, but problem with tapes is not ~nobody can read. problem with tapes is the ye old "pot of gold" from threads. can read them alright, but requires all kinds of work to get them shared.
17:26 asciilifeform phf: shared, and, more to the point, runnable
17:27 asciilifeform ( also the obv. issue of whether was even such a thing as 'personal proj' in the days when the machine cost like 'lear jet' and ate 10kW + chillers , most material ended up deep in copyrasty glue trap for decades )
17:27 phf shared first and exclusively, runnable is for the enthusiasts. i mean we got 98 running with a tooppick and a whole lot of reverse engineering. meanwhile know of mit tapes with just even file names that indicate "this is what we need", but impossible to get out of them
17:27 * asciilifeform nods
17:28 phf and if various "have some tapes in a box" people are mini dragons, can easily be convinced to share, then mit is like a full blown dragon, hobbit's smog, sits on loot, no real copyright on it either, just need creedentials and handshakes and more creedentials to get to
17:29 asciilifeform in this light is nuffin short of a miracle that ~anyffin~ was released and found way to archaeologists
17:29 verisimilitude Oh, that; yes. I avoid walking into the copyright ghettos.
17:29 asciilifeform iirc mit released 0 many yrs after bolix conclusively folded
17:31 phf i had this conversations with russians a lot where go "mit is no longer premier educational instutation, lost its way sometime in the early 2000s", have examples and explanations, but hard to argue against years of succesful marketing. point being that "mit" "released" while "mit" was a bunch of hackers doing whatever the fuck. aaronsw affair was not a watershed moment, but ought to have made point obv to everyone who wasn't paying
17:31 phf attention
17:32 verisimilitude I applied to MIT before I knew any better; it's good I didn't get in.
17:33 verisimilitude It's good I have no formal education regarding programming.
17:33 asciilifeform phf: brands can take very long time to die. many folx still think of e.g. edison when hear 'general electric', rather than of the stuck-in-panama-canal lulship, etc
17:35 * asciilifeform knows folx buying today's crapple irons, with their soldered-in flash disks, random kernel panics, nintendoized 'appstores' etc. largely because they 'sat down on the needle' in '80s when 'nifty gui mac JustWorx(tm)'
17:35 phf mit is cloud beaurocratia by head and 60% chink by body, there's no substance left to it. and i've heard this point from hackers in the 2003 or so when i regularly traveled to boston to hang out at ta lounges and go to conferences. "if you want to put a cow on a roof as a prank, you're 40 years too late, but whatever i'm going to get a senior engineering position at ibm out of college, so i'm not sweating it"
17:36 phf s/ibm/boeing/
17:36 asciilifeform phf: this was visible from 1000km+ away to anyone with open eyes when they abolished 'sicp'
17:36 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-02-23 phf: sussman was there though, when mit switched from sicp to python for their intro programming course, and he defended that decision with his remarks at ILC https://web.archive.org/web/20090327115612/http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03/24/why-mit-now-uses-python-instead-of-scheme-for-its-undergraduate-cs-program
17:37 phf asciilifeform: that's almost a decade after, but yes
17:37 phf like abolition of sicp came i think even after they threw sw under the bus
17:38 asciilifeform swartz was hanged in '13 iirc
17:38 phf yeap
17:38 asciilifeform sicp 'hanged' in '09
17:39 phf oh interesting, i got my dates wrong. 2007 acording to pedowikia
17:39 asciilifeform a
17:39 asciilifeform makes sense that it happened somewhat prior to sussman's 'schroedinger's letter to hitler' moment
17:39 phf i think by then i switched fully out of academia and was doing event promotion at DC cubs :D
17:40 asciilifeform smart
17:41 phf i'm trying to think when the first yc startup school happened, must've been 2007 or so
17:42 * asciilifeform been to boston exactly 1ce, in late '90s to visit family phriendz, walked past mit like muslim walks in mecca past the kaaba, 'believed'
17:44 asciilifeform trying to elist there was outta the q., cost moar than whole family earned then
17:45 asciilifeform today perhaps costs like a small boeing, tho asciilifeform has nfi concretely
17:45 phf so i was going to attend, but was poor, so i was pumping my state school grades and taking bus trips to mit, would sleep on couches and hang out with tas. i've worked it out at some point and between loans and grants could manage to. while visiting learned the dark art of "surviving of phree food at grad events"
17:46 asciilifeform 'ghost' was the local parlance for these, they existed even at md shithole
17:46 phf actually umd's symantic web people had a kind of channel to mit because were using common lisp, much talk of lisp machines, so i wouldn't necessarily be out of place. often had purpose to go
17:46 asciilifeform a, so 'diplomatic cover', rather than 'illegal resident'
17:47 phf well, they wrote about the model right? it's in the "what the dormouse said", the founder of intel famously walked into mit's comp sci lab from the street in the 60s with the words "you guys seem to be doing some far out shit here". why would be different? :>
17:48 * asciilifeform wonders whether today someone could 'walk from street' into any of these, supposing somewhere worth walking into, or couldn't even get past checkpoint
17:48 phf for example media lab still had some cool projects going, e.g. https://people.csail.mit.edu/jrb/goo/
17:49 * asciilifeform did a long tour of duty at usg nih, pre-911, 'anyone could walk in', often enuff fughot the photo badge at home; many yrs later found that could not even go to library there w/out airport-like arse search and 'ausweis, bitte'
17:50 phf at umd we were doing that (first in general) wifi roaming, and goo people were doing smart agents with lisps living on small wifi devices, coordinating things, etc.
17:50 * asciilifeform remembers 'goo' -- what happened to it ?
17:50 phf nothing, it just sort of .. stopped
17:51 asciilifeform '01 jun 05' -- evidently ^
17:52 phf also i think bachrach is at berkeley
17:52 phf there are some school that sort of, by virtue of being less known to the chinese and the arabs and whatever, managed to somewhat preserve the culture, somewhat. at least when i was investigating it. now probably fully dead.
17:53 phf berkeley was one of them, cmu another
17:53 asciilifeform was aboutta say, cmu
17:53 asciilifeform tho reportedly 'they' got to it and salted the earth in '10s
17:54 verisimilitude I applied to Berkeley as well; it's good I didn't get in there either.
17:54 verisimilitude ``Berkeley made BSD, so it's good, right?''
17:54 asciilifeform dunno how much the cn, arabs, had to do with the death, near as can tell they're merely opportunistically maggoting on the corpses
17:55 asciilifeform verisimilitude: asciilifeform applied there, demoralized half way in and filled out half the form. verdict 'waitlist' lulzily
17:55 asciilifeform also 'because bsd' lol
17:55 phf well, it's a mutual sort of relationship. to borrow an mp kind of analogy when presented with a cock, the girl lifted her skirt to show her cunt
17:55 asciilifeform not ever been there, or even on that side of continent, tho, lol
17:56 verisimilitude That's vulgar and not at all clever, phf.
17:56 * asciilifeform was in a 'я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин'(tm)(r) level of naivete, 'berkeley because bsd', etc., had nfi that it'd've been like 'move to rome because augustus'
17:57 verisimilitude His writing was certainly ``hit and miss''.
17:57 phf well, i'm stuborn, so after i realized that mit's a bust, i switched to the west coast (plus some money started coming in), and spent some time in the valley
17:57 phf berkeley was much better preserved than either mit or stanford, so i'm not sure what verisimilitude is talking about. i guess he's a zoomer, so by his time there were no good things left.
17:58 * asciilifeform asciilifeform old, but chronically socially isolated, so not got to the 'good things' until only their mummified remains, if that, remained
17:58 verisimilitude I'm glad I got into neither, because being taught by ``experts'', even experts, would've smothered my beautiful ideas.
18:00 phf i have to say, right before paul graham corrupted the place with the whole "startup nerd" culture, it did feel kind of exciting. i remember superhappydevhouse events, where bunch of hackers meet, spend the evening into the night, hack on things, discuss it. not many hanger ons at events like that, so it was a kind of festival of cool hacking
18:00 asciilifeform perhaps was evenmoar exciting in days of fairchild semi. co.
18:02 phf well, i'm sure, but go to war with army you have and all that. i remember my first shdh, you walk in, some dude comes up to you and is like "give me your phone number, i have a hacked up asterisk instance going, i want to make some noise". at some point everyone forgot about giving the number, whole house gets a call at 2am, the sample from the matrix where he gets a call gets played. that kind of stuff :D
18:03 * asciilifeform if had lived there and then, and moar amicable, prolly would've also 'gone with the army you have'
18:04 phf but less than a year later and it turns into "sillicon valley the tv show", everyone's talking about round b investment and wants you to sign nda if you glance at their laptop screen at a cofee shop
18:04 asciilifeform as it was, dug up 'xlisp' for msdos, pg red book, sicp, inquired 'who and when built these ruined cities', not encountered living culture
18:05 verisimilitude That's another reason to hate business, phf.
18:06 asciilifeform phf: 'gold rush' tends to destroy errything worth touching, like plague of locusts
18:06 verisimilitude I've effectively been asked before what money there's in learning Latin.
18:07 asciilifeform verisimilitude: answer'em 'i'm gunning to get hired as manager of vatican's nazi dental gold fund'
18:07 asciilifeform should shut'em up
18:08 verisimilitude Alright.
18:08 phf "i'm treasurer for the prelature of the holy cross and opus dei"
18:08 verisimilitude I've been wondering if my local Catholic church has a Latin speaker; I'll find out soon enough.
18:09 asciilifeform verisimilitude: iirc even after vat2 priests still gotta pass lang to get 'diploma'
18:09 verisimilitude I've told others before that I've the makings of a Catholic priest, sans the faith.
18:10 * asciilifeform suspects faith aint critical obstacle
18:10 verisimilitude I also suspect so.
18:11 verisimilitude So hey, backup plans are nice to have.
18:11 asciilifeform certainly not obstacle in e.g. usg shitholes
18:11 asciilifeform so wai vatican any different.
18:12 verisimilitude I seem to recall, perhaps, this is a longstanding criticism of Catholicism, but no, that's silly.
18:17 * asciilifeform wonders whether in some forsaken shithole there is still a uni where 'we didn't know the war ended' and lisps etc. ( maybe inria ? iirc as late as '10 was )
18:17 asciilifeform ... at this pt prolly as likely as finding the dinosaur valley from the disney cartoon.
18:18 verisimilitude Who needs a university with the Internet?
18:19 verisimilitude I've had few teachers better than a book, and I can learn of and order just about any book I'd want.
18:20 verisimilitude The modern world may be slowly decaying, but the printers still work.
18:20 asciilifeform verisimilitude: not errybody rich
18:21 verisimilitude Books are generally cheap.
18:21 asciilifeform food & roof aint
18:21 verisimilitude That's true.
18:21 asciilifeform at 1 time, folx interested in ideas, often worked in universities.
18:21 asciilifeform long ago.
18:21 verisimilitude I don't eat out often, I'd rather use the money on books, as an example.
18:22 verisimilitude My mother once told me that, one day, I'd find a group of likeminded and intelligent people with whom I could discuss the ideas I have; I told her that's what university was supposed to be.
18:23 asciilifeform lol
18:23 phf you think verisimilitude will go from "solitary monk" to "self flagelation is better with frens" in a lifetime, or it will take multiple generation of hikikomori to start monasteries?
18:23 verisimilitude This was after I went and became disillusioned with university, asciilifeform.
18:23 phf asciilifeform: ^
18:24 asciilifeform phf: asciilifeform suspects that hiki aint building monasteries. ( can do hermit cave, max )
18:25 phf i'm always reminded of anathem when thinking about things like that
18:25 asciilifeform aaha!
18:26 verisimilitude Let's not pretend a hikikomori monastery wouldn't end up like the Branch Davidians.
18:26 phf "some fraa maintain discipline within confines of a single apartment"
18:26 asciilifeform 'pinprick math'(tm)
18:27 phf aah, ya. i forgot the terms :>
18:27 verisimilitude I'm actually happy to work with others, in things not related to hacking, phf.
18:27 verisimilitude Part of the reason is I acknowledge my lack of total ability in some of those things.
18:28 asciilifeform oblig 1337 w4r3z
18:28 asciilifeform verisimilitude ^
18:29 verisimilitude I'm not interested in reading fiction right now.
18:29 asciilifeform '“Pinprick maths?” “Some are no more than a one-room apartment with an electrical clock hanging on the wall and a well-stocked bookcase. One avout lives there alone, with no speely, no jeejah. Perhaps every few years an Inquisitor comes round and pokes his head in the door, just to see that all is well.”'
18:29 phf (i will say a philistine thing, but i think anathem made the point better than glassbead game overal. glassbead is redeamed by the last chapter with the holy man, but god what a slog otherwise. and i've read my share of literature, even understood often, but suspect that hesse is actually mostly up his ass.)
18:30 * asciilifeform concurs
18:33 * asciilifeform must bbl
18:36 verisimilitude I'll now read BBL as ``big-boy loving''.
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