Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2022-04-07 | 2022-04-09 →
00:00 asciilifeform vex: lol saw the sodimm and thought 'hm finally an rk w/ expandable ram?' then 'mnope, yet anuther cpu-on-sodimm + periphs snoar board'
00:00 asciilifeform over9000 of these
00:01 asciilifeform ( double snoar considering it's a 'raspberry' )
00:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-27 18:14:00 asciilifeform: re 'raspberry', see also e.g..
00:02 asciilifeform infamous 'blob to boot, blob to run' shitchipset, and over9000 aggressively pushed by vendor for decade+ nao
00:02 phf asciilifeform: can also put in risc-v if so desire, TBF. (i had a moment of weakness, was contemplating it, eventually realized that it's utter trash)
00:02 vex apparenylt the plastic is shitastic also
00:03 asciilifeform phf: prolly could, if can get 1 for the socket.
00:03 phf asciilifeform: no no i mean they sell it
00:03 asciilifeform ( but wainot an actual mb ? )
00:03 asciilifeform a
00:03 vex risc is new
00:03 asciilifeform never understood wai no one ever sold a pc-style mb for'em
00:03 asciilifeform y'know, the kind that eats standard ram, standard pci/pcie, ports, etc
00:03 phf https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/copy-of-clockworkpi-core-r-01
00:03 * asciilifeform had one w/ a xilinx where cpu normally lives
00:04 mangol is riscv's niche different from mips?
00:04 verisimilitude I loathe RISC.
00:04 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-03 00:29:41 verisimilitude: RISC-V is a stupid cult of masturbating academics who think spending ten years on the description of a shitty toy instruction set is anything resembling a reasonable action; it's naught, but stupidity.
00:04 asciilifeform mangol: see likbez
00:04 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-02 13:40:41 asciilifeform: PeterL: originally riscvism was a licensetard 'reaction' to the mips patents
00:04 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-01 20:43:52 asciilifeform: vaguely suspects that the riscv thing is, for lack of a better term, a 'stopper' -- i.e. exists to occupy the market niche just enuff to prevent the appearance of the real thing.
00:05 mangol but now mips is open too?
00:05 asciilifeform mangol: last mips patent expired many yrs ago
00:06 verisimilitude In nearly every instance I observe an old computer architecture discussed, I read it being described as a RISC; it's irrelevant how many instructions are available, their forms, or what operations they perform, as is how much memory was available to its machines; it will likely be described as a RISC.
00:06 verisimilitude `` I've also seen the supposedly rare CISC be described as RISC, because it's ``RISC internally''; this dissonance of ideas that would lead to idiots giving everything a meaningless label makes sense when these idiots are correctly identified as cultists. There's a compulsion to colour everything with a particular shade, so the dominion of the cult becomes the world. This is a general pattern of note.''
00:07 asciilifeform 'riscv' is effectively mips cosmetically mutilated to get around orig. patent; but in actual practice was an 'openwashing' scheme to push vendorlockwares of various flavours
00:07 dulapbot Logged on 2021-10-25 13:15:43 asciilifeform: bonechewer: there's this variety of 'pseudo-open source' that is esp. pestilential in re: hardware -- y'know, where 'you can have the src, but all you can do with it is gawk because missing x,y,z,p,q,r essential parts, with various excuses'
00:08 mangol thanks
00:08 asciilifeform incl. xilinx's 'periph cores' and other 'well here's a cpu , but whatcha gonna do w/out sdram, nic, etc, here's ours'
00:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021-10-25 13:11:41 asciilifeform: bonechewer: what's the newsworthy part ? there's already 'over9000' riscv already posted, and some even fit in ice40. (the issue with all of these is that they either fit in ice40, xor have decent performance. typically for the latter relies on various proprietary ram controllers & other periphs not included in src)
00:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021-10-25 13:16:12 asciilifeform: 'oh of course it doesn't have a sdram controller, we licensed altera's' etc
00:08 mangol from wikipedia MIPS article:
00:08 mangol In December 2018, Wave Computing, the new owner of the MIPS architecture, announced that MIPS ISA would be open-sourced in a program dubbed the MIPS Open initiative. The program was intended to open up access to the most recent versions of both the 32-bit and 64-bit designs making them available without any licensing or royalty fees as well as granting participants licenses to existing MIPS patents.
00:08 mangol In March 2019, one version of the architecture was made available under a royalty-free license, but later that year the program was shut down again.
00:08 mangol In March 2021, Wave Computing announced that the development of the MIPS architecture has ceased. The company has joined the RISC-V foundation and future processor designs will be based on the RISC-V architecture. In spite of this, some licensees such as Longsoon continue with new extension of MIPS-compatible ISAs on their own.
00:08 asciilifeform a very common flavour of scamsauce, reminiscent of e.g. intel's 'open source bios' (which built only on mswin and w/ 400MB of blobs)
00:09 mangol literally 400MD?
00:09 mangol *MB
00:09 mangol i.e. not hyperbole
00:09 asciilifeform what mips needs imho is 'undevelopment', lol
00:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-01 21:35:09 asciilifeform: fond of mips , w/ exception of the liquishit instrs w/ unaligned byte and 'halfword' access; fuck unaligned loads.
00:09 verisimilitude That's tiny nowadays, mangol.
00:10 asciilifeform mangol: actually weighed moar, but iirc at least that
00:11 asciilifeform mangol: see, btw, asciilifeform's mips (kudos to phf for keeping that mirror, btw) -- most of what's in the mips dun need to exist at all
00:11 mangol M, yes
00:11 asciilifeform ^ will disappoint folx who learned mipsism from schoolbook, e.g. hennesey
00:11 phf obligatory lone tear for SPARC, which /is/ both open and royalty free, but too lovely of a design to actually develop
00:12 * asciilifeform once managed to actually build & enxilinx 'opensparc'
00:12 verisimilitude I've heard good things about implementing Lisp under Sparc, yes.
00:12 asciilifeform ultra-heavy
00:12 verisimilitude I'm joking.
00:13 verisimilitude Personally, I think the SH architecture and the NEC V50 look nice.
00:14 verisimilitude Knuth's MMIX is particularly nice, but doesn't exist as a chip.
00:14 phf last sparc i worked with https://navspark.mybigcommerce.com/navspark-arduino-compatible-development-board-with-gps/
00:15 asciilifeform phf: ha, i've a 'riscv' thing from apparently same vendor that loox physically identical. but unsurprise given that they're actually chinese fpga (altera clone, sadly 100% closed toolchain) demo boards
00:15 asciilifeform so 1 has a riscv, 1 -- sparc, possib others
00:15 asciilifeform iirc the fpga turd is actually reflashable, w/ the toolkit in principle could load own
00:18 asciilifeform verisimilitude: personally moar interested in taking all that crystal real estate and planting sumthing useful in place of the fucktarded mmu / tlb logic, e.g. iron gc
00:18 verisimilitude A systolic array is neat.
00:19 asciilifeform ( who the fuck needs mmu if pointers never exposed to user , and if he wants to 'jail' a process, can simply evaluate its sexpr in an env where symbols are bound how he likes )
00:20 asciilifeform verisimilitude: some things neat from 'great pyramid of cheops is neat' pov, but not so much from pov of someone who has to inhabit
00:20 verisimilitude It's APL in hardware.
00:20 asciilifeform afaik mostly used in gpu & similar , where nought to do w/ apl, naodays
00:21 verisimilitude One thing is certain to me: People should avoid designing hardware without a real problem to guide it.
00:21 asciilifeform gotta be careful when thinking 'x is y-in-hardware'. is it?
00:21 asciilifeform or is simply sumbody's misguided idea of how to 'hardwarize' y
00:22 asciilifeform or is entirely other thing, and through wishful thinking reader thinks 'aah finally y in hardware'
00:22 verisimilitude Most systolic array designs are for neural network nonsense, nowadays.
00:22 asciilifeform proper 'hardwarization' actually eliminates complexity, rather than merely moving it
00:23 asciilifeform take nn. e.g. the '80s attempts to bake ~analogue~ nn (i.e. outta op amps in vlsi) -- actually reduces the complexity, and devonneumannizes . the current-day crapolade -- not so much
00:23 phf was expecting tmsr to fully move onto oberon eventually
00:23 verisimilitude That can be a matter of perspective.
00:24 verisimilitude I've seen an analog neural network design lately.
00:24 asciilifeform verisimilitude: for sale, and w/ datashit ?
00:24 asciilifeform ( or, lol, in 'paper' ? )
00:25 phf asciilifeform: it was a college project somebody published, so yeah paper
00:25 asciilifeform lolk
00:28 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-07#1094070 << at this pt, imho, all the heft dragging from the obese lardcarcass of current-day comp is a problem per se
00:28 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 20:20:07 verisimilitude: One thing is certain to me: People should avoid designing hardware without a real problem to guide it.
00:29 asciilifeform take even the bus .
00:29 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 14:14:26 asciilifeform: behold, e.g. pci bus init on x64 pc. book-length horror.
00:29 verisimilitude ``The hardware can floorb as quickly as possible; wait, do I need to floorb?''
00:29 asciilifeform verisimilitude: aha, see above re e.g. tlb
00:30 asciilifeform ( iirc up to 10-20% of modern-day cpu die -- tlb cache ! )
00:31 asciilifeform ... or the idiocy of ieee floatingpoint.
00:31 dulapbot (trilema) 2018-11-15 asciilifeform: and buncha crapola -- page table, floating point, etc. that simply dun need to exist.
00:32 asciilifeform ( a 'feature' which makes approx as much sense as ibm's 'bcd' )
00:32 phf can replace with lambda calculus
00:33 asciilifeform even if you work on thermonuke sims, if yer numerics people can't work in integer arithm to do whatever, fire'em and get new ones
00:33 asciilifeform hire e.g. carmack, with his integer quake.
00:35 asciilifeform and recall infamous 'fdiv bug'. say, if instead of that nonsense, had rational arithmetic tower ?
00:38 verisimilitude Take my NaN from my NaN you NaNs!
00:39 verisimilitude Joking aside, none of my programs touch floating point.
00:39 asciilifeform ( or recall the webtards' beloves js, where 1-1+1-1... after not long gives you an 'epsilon' )
00:39 asciilifeform *beloved js
00:40 asciilifeform ( by 'logic' analogous to this, 'hmm we can only have one, so let's pick float' )
00:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-05 16:33:59 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-05#1093063 << the lispms had proper lower case. ( legend has it, 'dark age' irons which had only enuff rom for 1 font case, initially were to have the moar readable lower, but some churchgoing type objected, 'we oughtnt write the lord's name in lowercase'...)
00:40 vex 1995 angelina jolie had never heard of it
00:41 vex were they sitting in coffee shops in that movie?
00:41 * asciilifeform not gets the ref
00:41 phf cool? it sounds like a bunch of communist propaganda to me
00:42 vex someone mentioned the 1995 movie hackers in your chan days ago. unless I dreamed it
00:46 vex java indeed. call the thing sulaweisi
00:57 * vex lost the plot. bbl
01:03 asciilifeform meanwhile in fishwrap laffs.
~ 24 minutes ~
01:28 vex woke
01:36 vex wasnb't there a hot ny minute when woke meant the opposite?
01:37 vex and Q was real?
01:42 vex speaking of fishwrap.. whats coingeek up to?
01:47 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osqf4oIK0E8
01:52 * vex takes a noon sight
02:00 vex close enuff
02:08 vex I exist aprox where I thought
02:21 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5fIKmn1ok
02:29 phf vex: woke started on the black fringe, and indicated being awake and aware of the hidden history. i've not actually heard woke being used to mean awareness of racial issues, maybe because people i was talking to were polite, or maybe it was grafted on later on. popular subjects were raw foodism, we waz kangs, or ((they)) keeping the black man down.
02:30 vex I've never heard that one before
02:33 phf in fact the kind of shit i talked to with woke blacks was the kind of stuff you later heard in qanon circles, it's basically robert anton wilson grade jambalaya of conspiracy theories. those conversations were always great fun, because it's like reading philip k dick, but live, and the person riffing has a very different perspective on this things. "see, brother, the jews, they killed jfk, because he was going to liberate the
02:33 phf brothers. read rev. washington t. black, he talks about it!"
02:34 phf shit, one of the early in person bitcoin conversations i had was with one of those post-MOVE west philadelphia black guys, who described every kind of food as either being pranic or not. he started telling me about bitcoin, on account of how it'll liberate the brothers from the jew bankers
02:39 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-20#1852418
02:41 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-21#1281344
02:42 phf so these guys will say "stay woke" meaning "you're clearly aware of what's /really going on/ and i approve of that, carry on"
02:46 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyLnG1Sekvk
02:47 phf vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OjPQMnY7c this is more conversation appropriate
02:51 vex phf comes correctly
02:51 vex nya slave
02:52 * asciilifeform oughta add echo for phf's linx ( observe, they correctly tunnel to asciilifeform's logism ) but loathe to restart bot
02:52 asciilifeform !q uptime
02:52 dulapbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 295d 23h 48m
02:52 asciilifeform ( or phf plug bot in here ? )
02:53 phf oughta
02:53 * asciilifeform was quite fond of phf's logotron, to this day not copied all the pheatures (e.g. backlinkage)
02:54 asciilifeform (iirc ran w/out sqlism, even, 100% in mmap'd ram)
02:55 asciilifeform asciilifeform's logotron ftr. there are also a coupla billymg mods that possibly aint in there
02:56 phf asciilifeform: original cmucl version was mmaped, but when porting to sbcl due to frequent crashes had to make the whole thing in memory, which is also major reason why ia haven't expanded it. needs to be made mmaped again, to support multiple channels. otherwise unreasonably memory heavy
02:56 asciilifeform a
02:56 asciilifeform unlikely 'memory heavy' stood next to e.g. trb, lol
02:57 phf Dynamic space usage is: 479,119,344 bytes.
02:57 asciilifeform toobig for my msdos box but otherwise svelte
02:57 phf 500mb in memory! prepostrous!
02:59 asciilifeform e.g. asciilifeform has iirc 4g cache set just for postgres. so stood next to ~that~, light..
03:00 * asciilifeform running logotron & its www on 256g/32cpu hog. and still sometimes lags..
03:01 asciilifeform it also runs 'dulapnet' but that weights next to nuffin
03:01 asciilifeform *weighs
03:04 * asciilifeform pretty happy w/ current isp atm
03:04 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-01 16:10:27 asciilifeform: ... for current shitpnoje wireless , is a visible to naked eye 'lolno'. but interestingly enuff asciilifeform's dc in fact delivered 'five nines' service in 2021. i.e. <6min of dead time in yr
03:06 asciilifeform ... and costs 10x less than piz cage ( let's say 5x, moar exactly, given that there's ~half of errything )
03:16 phf asciilifeform: do you ever experience a problem with mc, where f6 a folder from machine to machine, it moves the files but leaves the folder behind?
03:19 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k0ziDkXSV8
~ 24 minutes ~
03:44 asciilifeform phf: defo experienced, but iirc only on crapple
03:45 asciilifeform ( why -- mystery )
03:48 signpost maybe dotfile turds, .DS_Store or w/e?
03:48 asciilifeform something peculiar re the fs , yea. iirc also seen on nfs mounts
03:53 verisimilitude I was just reminded of the microplastics issue about which I can do naught.
03:53 asciilifeform ?
03:54 vex truth be told
03:54 asciilifeform watsa 'microplastic' ?
03:54 verisimilitude It was simply brought again to the forefront of my mind that we're constantly being poisoned.
03:55 verisimilitude Apparently, plastic breaks down into microscopic particles that behave similarly to estrogen, asciilifeform.
03:55 asciilifeform verisimilitude: ~plasticizer~ seep
03:55 verisimilitude What?
03:55 vex tooling up for proper work is a lost art
03:56 signpost can remove quite a lot of them by avoiding buying certain products
03:56 signpost but yes, gonna be hard to get it out of the tap.
03:56 verisimilitude I avoid plastics, but still.
03:56 asciilifeform verisimilitude: light organics added to plastics to make 'springy' (think 'water flasks' etc)
03:58 asciilifeform they're only 'mostly' trapped in the solid, and on surface often enuff seeps out, esp. as it flexes
03:58 * signpost uses filters that claim to remove 'em, and has silicone and glass for food containers
03:59 mats think its a real stretch to say they all mimic estrogen
03:59 mats considering how poorly understood they are
03:59 * asciilifeform fwiw suffered continuous, yr-round allergy ever since came to usa. and when leaves -- stops. suspected all kindsa pollutants, but evidently culprit is something that is present in literally erry hotel room , house, etc in north a
03:59 asciilifeform prolly not the plasticizers tho
04:00 asciilifeform in re 'poisoned'
04:00 vex buck up
04:00 signpost mats: yeah, it's probably worse than such a simple answer.
04:01 verisimilitude It's simply unpleasant to remember that I've been poisoned, mutilated, humiliated, and lied to throughout my life.
04:01 signpost asciilifeform: I'm currently getting the immunotherapy to turn these down
04:01 asciilifeform verisimilitude: surely not 'just realized' today
04:01 verisimilitude Of course not.
04:01 asciilifeform signpost: how's that work ?
04:01 mats https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/odd-lots/id1056200096?i=1000556504548
04:01 verisimilitude Still.
04:01 * signpost has zero allergies whenever in new england, though.
04:01 mats https://archive.ph/Nig0z transcript
04:01 signpost asciilifeform: they shot my back up with a grid of allergens and pure histamine
04:02 signpost compare the allergens to the histamine, then they make you vials of everything that turned red
04:02 * signpost had more or less 10x10 red grid, lol
04:02 asciilifeform signpost: from that pov, asciilifeform already in 30th yr of 'immunotherapy'-by-exposure to $poison, eh
04:02 verisimilitude I know the only reasonable action is to ignore it for the most part, but I felt like mentioning it.
04:02 asciilifeform to 0 substantial effect
04:02 signpost n of 1, but working for me. allergies are subsiding.
04:03 signpost not without cost, had my left hip start acting up along the way, lost my voice last week.
04:03 asciilifeform signpost: at one pt asciilifeform had 'allergy test', where 100+ pins stuck in his back, 'which turns red', none did
04:03 signpost getting shot up with concentrated shit to which I'm allergic, after all.
04:03 mats a food sensitivity and allergy panel would be useful
04:03 signpost huh
04:03 mats two different things
04:03 asciilifeform in re 'test for to what allergic'
04:04 asciilifeform the testers came out with a 'yer not allergic'
04:04 asciilifeform 'to anything'
04:04 signpost yeah, might be food, or what's in the "food"
04:04 vex indeed in australia, you'd het a spponful of cement
04:04 asciilifeform claimed that all known food allergens in there. nfi
04:04 signpost or it's that shit the russians are pumping into the water in the bullseye.
04:04 vex harden the fuck up
04:05 * signpost does not subscribe to this school of manliness, where I'm going to avoid whatever science can do to remove nature's irritants.
04:05 asciilifeform signpost: whatever it is , apparently present in dc, nyc, chicago, etc. yr-round
04:05 asciilifeform but not in e.g. ro, uy
04:06 * signpost doesn't imagine you eat sugar endlessly, but ever dropped e.g. carbs to clear out the butt fungus?
04:06 asciilifeform tried moar or less erry variation
04:06 asciilifeform and , again, ate plenty of sugar overseas
04:06 mats do you have an air purifier?
04:06 asciilifeform mats: in erry room
04:06 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns15eHLDv1I
04:06 signpost fwiw when I traveled to CR, perhaps the best my gut has ever felt.
04:07 signpost that fresh ceviche is good stuff.
04:07 asciilifeform mats: the type w/ activated charcoal, electrostatic trap, etc
04:07 asciilifeform it does save on cpu fan clean
04:07 mats like its part of your whole home hvac system or standalone units
04:07 asciilifeform mats: there also
04:07 mats sucks
04:08 * asciilifeform tries all kindsa commercial 'solutions' to subj, interestingly the only thing that 100% worx is plane ticket
04:08 mats have you used an air quality monitor? temtop makes a good one
04:09 signpost yeah, curious about pollution.
04:09 asciilifeform mats: installed. show 0 detectable anyffins
04:10 asciilifeform ( granted konsoomer sensors, typically rather coarse )
04:10 mats if you have a good hvac system it prolly doesnt matter
04:10 asciilifeform mats: at one pt suspected forced-air duct systems ('endless trap for dust')
04:11 asciilifeform but then lived in flat w/out one and 0diff
04:11 verisimilitude So this is only in the US?
04:11 asciilifeform verisimilitude: so far
04:11 verisimilitude Perhaps asciilifeform is allergic to FREEDOM.
04:11 asciilifeform lolha
04:11 asciilifeform fleadom
04:11 verisimilitude Yes.
04:12 phf god damn i was hue hueing through the end of the log, going to hit asciilifeform with a zinger, but verisimilitude sniped it
04:13 * signpost figures this is the operant conditioning they give you guys at birth in the motherland to call you home.
04:13 * asciilifeform not been to anyffin close to 'whole globe' so cannot say '~only~ usa'. but so far there and only
04:18 verisimilitude Tell us if Antartica suffers this as well, yes.
04:19 * asciilifeform when smaller was dragged by parents to various medical quacks, who did over9000 expensive scans ('mebbe yer spinal fluid is leaking out yer nose!') , the allergy panels, etc
04:19 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i promise to say if end up there
04:19 verisimilitude Actually, given how people live there, it may be likely.
04:20 asciilifeform anyways all this apropos of 'poisons thrd'
04:21 asciilifeform ( at least fwiw whatever the fuck it is, aint cumulative, or plane ticket wouldn't 'cure' )
04:21 verisimilitude I should leave the US at least once in my life.
04:22 asciilifeform verisimilitude: if only to discover which continent yer allergic to!11
04:23 phf commendatori!
04:26 * asciilifeform bbl
04:27 * vex still paddle out
04:28 signpost https://archive.ph/lWETy << could be we're all too damn clean.
04:28 signpost need to eat moar poop.
04:28 vex nah mate
04:29 signpost I don't make the rules here vex, and mother nature's a sick bitch.
04:30 vex true enough
04:31 verisimilitude First horsefucking and now coprophilia; where does it end, signpost?
04:31 vex i seen that rusina lake unrecue
04:32 vex don't talk shit
04:32 verisimilitude Don't talk shit, eat shit, apparently.
04:33 mats in boston theres a place that will buy poo from donors
04:33 mats some students made serious beer money doing it regularly
04:33 mats open biome's waitlist was more than a year long when i signed up
04:34 vex i practice rescues all the time
04:35 signpost yeah, I know somebody that joined the sisterhood of the traveling poo.
04:35 signpost apparently worked wonders on her celiacs issues.
04:37 signpost verisimilitude: doesn't mean I like the idea, but the idea of "clean" food is probably pretty recent, certainly on evolutionary timescales.
04:37 signpost we'll probably be taking tuned probiotic regimens when we understand it better.
04:39 phf and then they eat da poo poo
04:39 vex you make a figure of 8 if somone fslls off
04:40 vex get eyes on the cunt. ignore the compass
04:41 signpost phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9c1tP5inhg << oblig
04:41 signpost textbook "protesting too much"
04:45 vex even if you come back around, someone has to scoop the cunt out of the water
04:47 vex it's proper to practice whwen it's not happenning
04:48 signpost wut
04:50 vex alf for instance, need to know evry uhf descriptor
04:51 vex if there's a fire in the engine room. that 400 mega
04:51 signpost I've got null pointer exceptions all over this, my man.
04:53 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tnbcuzQB30
04:56 vex thetre's a method where a captain save a soldier in the dark
04:59 * signpost gonna knock off, cya
05:01 vex it's easy to ignor a sinking man. also easy to know th e method
05:01 vex first 5 minutes after the hour are quiet tiem on vhf
05:03 vex one must listen for madays\
05:04 * vex never wailed for helm
05:05 vex same rulez exist on hf
05:06 vex master can wail anywhere for the sfaety
05:12 vex the backstays are tuned just so
05:13 vex making calcs inside
05:18 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3Sfl7-OyM
05:23 vex i'd better fuck off too. bermuda triangle aint np joke
05:23 vex victor echo xray. I'm frigtened
05:27 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alNxLjCBJc when u clap at the busstop
05:40 vex that's called propwalk kids
~ 5 hours 46 minutes ~
11:27 mangol Fast-spreading HIV variant doubles rate of immune system decline
~ 2 hours 8 minutes ~
13:35 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
13:35 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $42870.8
13:36 asciilifeform !w poll
13:36 watchglass Polling 15 nodes...
13:36 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.103s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980 (Operator: asciilifeform)
13:36 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.088s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980 (Operator: asciilifeform)
13:36 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=730980 (Operator: whaack)
13:36 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.136s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.277s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.196s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.311s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730188
13:36 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.583s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:36 watchglass 103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=432175 (Operator: whaack)
13:36 watchglass 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.513s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730980
13:37 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
~ 24 minutes ~
14:02 mangol in surrealism, pg twitter thread
~ 37 minutes ~
14:39 asciilifeform mangol: 0 surprises in there
14:48 asciilifeform ( pg is a rather undisguised reich mouthpiece )
14:48 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-10 11:21:10 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-10#1078670 << see also e.g..
~ 51 minutes ~
15:40 mangol asciilifeform: are you saying pg is the scott adams type of character?
15:41 mangol technically competent and socially ambitious; social ambition eventually takes over, and semi-consciously turns self into mouthpiece
15:42 mangol pg used to be a genuine contrarian on at least a few topics. now his twitter feed looks like he's trying to maximize "likes" from the startup social circle, with no regard for anything else
15:49 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-08-17#1523305 << can you explain this in more detail? are there actually handlers who tap on the shoulder of the pg's now and then and tell them now would be a good time to push an angle?
15:49 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-08-17 asciilifeform: a good chunk of what the 'genius splitters' are kept around for is to be blown on annoyances like phuctor.
15:52 asciilifeform mangol: typically pg-level operators aint given scripts, but 'play jazz', i.e. know what's expected and improvise ad lib
15:54 asciilifeform mangol: re 'genuine contrarian' -- fella was involved (by own admission) in the yahoo pyramid scheme. then opened 'factory' which produced similar ones.
15:56 asciilifeform ( see e.g. mp re subj )
15:56 dulapbot (trilema) 2018-04-20 mircea_popescu: the "5k user discord server" is not substantially different from a piece of paper on which you wrote the number 5 followed by the letter k, or for that matter paul graham's yahoo scam ( http://trilema.com/2015/investigations-in-the-bone-heap-of-the-lost-generation-today-mashable/#footnote_6_59020 / http://trilema.com/2014/the-psychology-of-the-bagholder/#selection-117.0-117.539 ).
15:58 asciilifeform ... also produced lengthy series of various bloviations.
15:58 asciilifeform prior to that, in '90s, wrote a notbad schoolbook re commonlisp.
15:58 asciilifeform from there, 'down hill'.
16:00 mangol contrarian compared to avg programmer, not compared to avg loper reader. early on he was constantly saying borderline-nsfw stuff, or struggling to contain the urge to say it
16:02 mangol at some point the urge was all but gone, and public image curated to be just the right amount of edgy without actually saying anything disagreeable to his echo chamber du jour
16:04 mangol "know what's expected"... to what end? what does a millionaire want to get, such that he needs to fulfill expectations to get it?
16:05 asciilifeform mangol: 'significance'
16:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 13:38:56 phf: i think mallory is the reason neither you nor signpost like horses, kek. man is an "avid skier" of the brandy at a lodge in aspen type, carrier apparatchik, living out his last days by way of his class. why do anything with symbolics assets when you can just feel self important by owning it, in that respect no different from a jade jewelry box from the orient, or a lion's head over a mantel
16:06 asciilifeform mangol: and, the 'fulfill expectations' thing is largely automatic. these folx selected for it.
16:06 mangol i.e. get comfortable in old age, and no longer want much of anything besides approval of wife and peer group?
16:07 asciilifeform he 'is' the group. rather like gorby 'was kpss'
16:10 mangol society raises x number of people who are gifted, ambitious and don't ask too many questions -> reich gives money and fame -> said people get comfortable and keep repeating working script?
16:10 asciilifeform aaha.
16:12 mangol so the only stage at which reich control is applied is selecting who to fund
16:12 asciilifeform mangol: important detail: some of'em play role of judas goat, to lure next set into intake hopper.
16:12 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 19:19:27 asciilifeform: oblig. 'adonis xiv'
16:12 asciilifeform pg is (or was, iirc an apprentice took over) a key judas.
16:14 asciilifeform mangol: and not only 'who to fund', but 'who to spam', 'for whom to make adhoc exceptions in law' (e.g. 'uber', 'airbnb', 'coinbase'), etc
16:16 asciilifeform ( re 'coinbase', see also e.g. )
16:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-01 15:58:55 asciilifeform: ( i.e. avg. rev. of 3-4 cents / qt. per user ?! )
16:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-01 16:06:09 asciilifeform: at any rate, seems obv. to anybody with 3 neurons to rub together that coinbase is simply 'lean' usg.spyagency masquerading as a gox.
16:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-01 15:48:21 asciilifeform: 'Coinbase, in fact, has a regulatory moat as they were the first to work closely with regulators and hence have licenses to operate in all states in the US...' << lolyes
16:20 asciilifeform pg's yc co. , as i gather, was orig. built to take ambitious young technical folx 'out of circulation', prevent'em from 'rocking boat'. but expanded beyond original charter, to also pull various politically-expedient stunts that reich needs pulled but not good fit for officials per se or 'ngo'.
16:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 13:52:55 phf: signpost: this is actually not megacorp, this is a different kind of beast, that 99% of americans don't know or understand. the NGO
16:20 asciilifeform e.g. to bake reich's Official tame gox (coinbase), or saw away at whatever remaining labour laws (uber), etc
16:20 mangol cool short film
16:21 mangol pink floyd at the end??
16:21 mangol time
16:22 asciilifeform nfi
16:22 * asciilifeform dun recall that being in there
16:24 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-08#1094355 << universities and corporate research labs have long been given gov't tasks, right?
16:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 12:18:59 asciilifeform: pg's yc co. , as i gather, was orig. built to take ambitious young technical folx 'out of circulation', prevent'em from 'rocking boat'. but expanded beyond original charter, to also pull various politically-expedient stunts that reich needs pulled but not good fit for officials per se or 'ngo'.
16:25 asciilifeform mangol: overt tasks. but 'long in the tooth', bureaucratized. pg's was to be 'lean'
16:25 mangol maybe academia and corporations have been affirmative-actioned to the point that startup incubators are more expedient
16:25 asciilifeform aha
16:26 mangol yc's immediate funding source is basically vc's like andreesen and his ilk
16:26 asciilifeform not to mention that for some problem domains, 'over9000 expendable 19yos' is moar effective than 'uni lab w/ over9000 admins and 4 tenured profs'
16:26 asciilifeform mangol: i.e. printing press.
16:27 mangol do the vc's get told what kinda startup to fund and where to lead it?
16:27 asciilifeform doubt it
16:27 asciilifeform they 'play jazz'
16:27 asciilifeform a quality apparatchik ~never needs to 'be told'
16:28 mangol so 'ambition' is the natural lure?
16:29 mangol drop vague territorial markers around certain objectives to make them seem ambitious. driven people will flock to these
16:29 asciilifeform mangol: yc recruits from 'ambitious but disaffected with traditional institutions' types
16:31 mangol so when reich wants to "optimize away" a trad. institution, these people are up to the task
16:31 asciilifeform for instance.
16:32 mangol patrons give the optimizers a couple yachts from the cost savings and take the rest of the yachts for themselves?
16:33 asciilifeform mangol: not all reich activity directly for 'proximate' yacht. some is 'strategic', i.e. for continued viability of the structure itself.
16:34 mangol apropos jwz
16:34 asciilifeform for optimizers, reward -- yacht or 2 for directors, coupla milliyachts ea. for worker bees
16:39 mangol so what would happen if pg woke up one day and decided to go rogue on twitter
16:39 asciilifeform 'I did make a bunch of money by winning the Netscape Startup Lottery, it's true. So did most of the early engineers. But the people who made 100x as much as the engineers did? I can tell you for a fact that none of them slept under their desk.' << surprisingly straight talk from infamous perp
16:40 mangol lose 95% of social circle, possibly wife. hatchet job by ambitious journalist in some trade magazine
16:40 asciilifeform mangol: hypothetically, endgame -- epsteined. but not aware of any instance of 'rogue' at that level
16:41 mangol asciilifeform: jwz is completely disillusioned on corporate life. too bad he isn't disillusioned with much else
16:41 asciilifeform mangol: 'generals' rarely defect. esp. when there is in fact nowhere to defect to.
16:41 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-21 17:08:35 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086863 << familiar w/ the term 'sausage emigre' ? atm there aint a place 'with better sausage', and ergo 'nowhere to defect to'
16:43 mangol the pg and scott adams types show trace amounts of honesty with self
16:43 mangol so they could 'defect' to personal integrity
16:43 mangol in practice, those who would are probably filtered a few steps earlier in the pipeline
16:44 asciilifeform the conveyor from 'recruit' to 'general' is largely about such filtration.
16:47 mangol irrigation, filtration, conveyors
16:47 mangol ...waste processing
16:47 asciilifeform none of this is unique to current reich
16:47 asciilifeform rather, basic mechanics
16:48 mangol chumpatron with really high-achieving chumps
16:49 asciilifeform well, 1-2 per over9000
16:50 mangol every food chain is a kind of ponzi scheme
16:50 asciilifeform a ponzi is a foodchain where participation, typically, voluntary
16:50 asciilifeform and leven n recruits actively n+1
16:51 asciilifeform *level n
16:52 mangol i wonder what % of the people in positions of power understand in essence how the complete system works
16:53 asciilifeform depends what mean by 'understand in essence'
16:54 mangol e.g. the pg and scott adams level ("thought leaders") seem to be genuinely drinking the kool aid
16:54 mangol at what level does every participant understand it's all bullshit
16:55 mangol senate/congress?
16:56 signpost this is what I've referred to as feeling in on the scam
16:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 13:08:01 signpost: yep, they like the feeling that they're in on the scam.
16:57 mangol but as you climb the power scale, at some level everyone has an accurate understanding of what the actual scam is
16:58 mangol at least if you subtract top secret stuff like who planned 9/11
16:58 asciilifeform reich 'compartment' system worx quite well.
17:01 mangol i.e. no one possesses the complete truth, by design?
17:02 asciilifeform mangol: wouldja expect, at e.g. cocacola co., for there to be 1 head which 'possesses the complete truth' ?
17:12 mangol not sure what the complete truth of coke is, but take e.g. the war propaganda or electoral politics
17:12 mangol at some level, everybody has got to understand the two parties make no difference
17:13 mangol that biden isn't the actual president, etc.
17:13 asciilifeform mangol: 'at some level' e.g. folx inside football stadium understand that it makes 0 diff who wins. but nonetheless they buy tickets.
17:16 asciilifeform mangol: reich system is a stadium without an exit door at any level.
17:16 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 16:24:14 asciilifeform: well say a fella decides 'nyt is fulla shit, wish i could serve putin'. what's his next step.
17:16 asciilifeform players & audience, for the most part, trapped inside.
17:18 asciilifeform afaik nuffin resembling a viable 'opposition' (vs. controlled muppets) has existed in usa for ~century
17:19 mangol but what drives the pg's of the world to say the bullshit they say on twitter, if not a belief that is mostly sincere?
17:19 mangol at this point pg could say nothing, and face no reprimands
17:20 asciilifeform likely 100% sincere. 'there's reich and, outside its walls, there's barbarism' etc
17:20 mangol that's the issue i was getting at
17:20 mangol congressmen knowingly lie to an audience. it's a conscious performance
17:21 asciilifeform how sincere -- can only be known once there's 'an outside'. as during e.g. su collapse, when over9000 'sincere' kpss mandarins flipped their sign bits
17:22 asciilifeform or in berlin in '45, when gestapo switched to fulltime printing of phony id papers for exiting staff
17:23 asciilifeform mangol: yes could 'say 0 and no reprimands.' but mandarins typically addicted to 'feeling of significance'.
17:24 mangol exactly. but there's a feeling of significance that comes from leading people like you -- you are like them, just a bit better. i suspect the pg's are like this.
17:24 mangol then there's another kind of feeling of significance that comes from looking down on your subjects and lying to them for your own gain
17:27 mangol empirically, the major parties seem to be full of the latter kind
17:27 mangol and not just in the us
17:27 asciilifeform psychology of elite is complicated can of worms. but fundamentally selected for 'reich way or barbarism' and 'for us, yacht, for them, mcd' and all else compat. w/ said core
17:29 mangol what you're getting at is, some % of elites is 95% lizard on a biological level, the rest need a story as justification to get past the occasional moral speed bump on the way to the next yacht
17:29 asciilifeform the folx who experience 'moral bumps' unlikely to make it to anywhere near pg level.
17:32 mangol but what would happen without drinking own kool-aid?
17:32 asciilifeform mangol: elaborate?
17:32 mangol assume it became a cynical power grab with no stories about barbarism and untermenschen
17:33 mangol how many of them could keep it going?
17:34 asciilifeform mangol: the military elephant on which reich 'turtle' stands, requires certain # of 'drinkers of koolaid'
17:34 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-26 16:15:43 asciilifeform: this is why asciilifeform unable historically to muster much sympathy for 'iraq veteran, his bonus retro-withdrawn, evicted' -- motherfuckers, you could have, should have, shot 1) your officers 2) your landlord 3) anything with a harvard diploma -- half century ago. but no, gotta faithful-dog instead.
17:36 asciilifeform less so, e.g., the financial 'elephant'. or the propaganda orchestra. in these, folx function quite well w/out any sincere belief req'd
17:37 mangol propaganda orchestra = ministry of truth = mass media?
17:38 asciilifeform aha
17:38 mangol you think most "journalists" function just fine on a steady diet of will-to-power and "in on the lie"?
17:40 asciilifeform mangol: regular 'flips' (recall, 'panic about covid is racist' -> 'pandemic!111' -> 'masks do 0' -> 'wear mask or yer a traitor' etc) select for what, do you supose.
17:40 asciilifeform 'pandemic!11, lockdown' -> 'blm crowds a++' -> 'pandemic, lockdown!11'
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
18:55 mangol i presume it's possible to believe in the "higher good" (good reich vs evil barbarians) without drinking that low-level kool-aid
18:55 mangol i.e. "ends justify the means" lying
18:58 mangol soldiers' belief probably stems in large part from having no other source of self-worth or positive identity
19:00 mangol when you look past the advertising, few seem to think it's a glamorous job. disillusionment of us soldiers who've seen combat is common, if not the norm
~ 53 minutes ~
19:53 jonsykkel my tower of blokcs also appears to have cemented sucesfully
19:54 jonsykkel 242000 -> 723000, 45 days, one 34min stall at height=508335
19:54 jonsykkel 723000 -> 731004, 4 days, with 10 or so restarts cuz frozen for hours
~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~
21:17 mats https://archive.ph/qXlkX
~ 21 minutes ~
21:38 mangol "prosecutors said the defendants' own words showed they were rage-filled extremists who hoped to spark a kind of civil war that would keep Biden from becoming president."
21:41 mangol fun to ponder who exactly is the target audience for narratives in this vein (which are now pretty common). you'd think "rage-filled" people would be the last to plan something as complex and disciplined as a "civil war"
21:41 mangol you'd think "they were calm and calculating extremists who hoped to spark a kind of civil war" would be more realistic
21:43 verisimilitude ``The trial in Grand Rapids, Mich. has been closely watched as a test of the U.S. government’s ramped-up efforts to combat domestic terrorism, and the verdict is a partial defeat for the Justice Department.''
21:44 verisimilitude Niggers burning down cities and destroying small businesses are just protesting, however.
21:45 mangol the man was keeping them down
21:46 mangol this pearl is a fine play on ambiguity of context as well: "Without accountability, extremists will be emboldened."
21:53 verisimilitude There's a cartoon, ``Ghost in the Shell'', which I believe touches on this topic.
21:54 verisimilitude It's called the ``Stand-Alone Complex''.
21:54 verisimilitude I'm to understand, in a society with constant surveillance, the only way for attacks to succeed are ``lone wolf'' attacks.
21:56 verisimilitude So, the police find a ``group'' doing this, only to discover none of the ``members'' know one another. Guided solely by ideals and internal motivation, they worked together without any communication, and without realizing it.
21:59 mangol a very concrete version of the idea of a focal point
~ 1 hours 24 minutes ~
23:24 phf signpost: can you please provide details of your water filter. just did a walmart run to fill a bunch of 5gal jugs, and as i'm carrying them back from the car that damn plastics conversation popped in my head..
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