00:07 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089757 << asciilifeform recs to read into basics of subj. and into detail. |
| |
↖ |
00:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-27 18:21:50 crtdaydreams: The basis would be the FPGA HDL conversion into new lisp fundamentals (lower than either cons or lambda). The core feature would be macros that write the hardware, all HDL code would be in an equiv. "BLOCK" statement. All the prev. features are preserved (homoiconicity, everything can be modified realtime, 7laws etc.) For sanity, hardware-defined code would be generated (for the most part) by macros. Then t |
00:08 |
* |
asciilifeform suspects that crtdaydreams has rather perverse notion of subj; forgivable for a noob, but srsly oughta rtfm if wants to discuss meaningfully. |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
& see also. |
| |
~ 3 hours 11 minutes ~ |
03:23 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089762 << good links. will definitely read through. admittedly I largely forgot iCE40 was freeware, but I have a suspicion that to bake a lisp CPU you'd need more than 8k. The z80 as it stands has 8.5k~. |
| |
↖ |
03:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-27 20:06:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089757 << asciilifeform recs to read into basics of subj. and into detail. |
| |
~ 48 minutes ~ |
04:11 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089766 << holy mother of fuck , crtdaydreams, didn't even bother to look at '8k' of ~what~ ? 8k LUTs in the ice8k, vs 8k ~transistors~ in z80, lol! |
04:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-27 23:22:10 crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089762 << good links. will definitely read through. admittedly I largely forgot iCE40 was freeware, but I have a suspicion that to bake a lisp CPU you'd need more than 8k. The z80 as it stands has 8.5k~. |
04:12 |
asciilifeform |
ice40 lut for ref. |
04:17 |
asciilifeform |
z80 + buncha periphs comfortably fits in the 8k. |
04:18 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. i386 wouldn't. nor the bolix ivory, tho conceivably a compat. item sans the massive cache, could |
04:19 |
* |
crtdaydreams is slightly retarded |
| |
↖ |
04:19 |
crtdaydreams |
plz excuse my noob |
04:19 |
* |
crtdaydreams will read the docs and ~fully understand them~ before any further comment |
04:19 |
* |
asciilifeform recs to read the intro materials, get a feel for what weighs how much, etc |
04:20 |
asciilifeform |
get the 20$ demo board, experiment, if genuinely interested in subj. |
04:20 |
asciilifeform |
it dun take megabux. |
04:20 |
crtdaydreams |
^^ ye. thought abt it last year but had school and job, so no time anyways |
04:20 |
asciilifeform |
dun take all that much time to do some helloworlds |
04:21 |
crtdaydreams |
er even w/ out knowledge of C? |
04:21 |
asciilifeform |
no c req'd |
04:21 |
crtdaydreams |
|| asm? |
04:21 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
04:21 |
asciilifeform |
~all of verilog would fit in a brochure |
04:22 |
crtdaydreams |
I started learning verilog for a little bit, at same time as I considered buying fpga |
04:22 |
crtdaydreams |
but completely forgot |
04:22 |
asciilifeform |
see the earlier link. |
04:23 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl |
04:23 |
crtdaydreams |
Ye, Very good to have something to follow along with. |
04:23 |
crtdaydreams |
iirc there was another course that did ~errything~ from "nand to tetris" |
04:24 |
crtdaydreams |
seen some pretty mixed ratings |
04:25 |
* |
crtdaydreams would like to step back and just get mp-wp & dulap going 1st |
| |
~ 56 minutes ~ |
05:22 |
mangol |
unrelated continuation, [https://www.linkedin.com/in/uncle-al-schwartz-317028b][Uncle Al Schwartz |
| |
↖ |
05:22 |
mangol |
] has a LinkedIn |
05:23 |
mangol |
newlines dammit. should set up irc in emacs |
05:25 |
mangol |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089773 << who isn't. some just hide it better than others |
05:25 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 00:18:23 crtdaydreams: is slightly retarded |
05:29 |
mangol |
case in point, only now realized that "bolix" is a contraction of "symbolics" |
| |
↖ |
05:29 |
mangol |
x made me think it's something to do with unix, lol |
05:43 |
verisimilitude |
Don't feel bad; asciilifeform's language habits are atrocious. |
05:53 |
mats |
tether is now down to 33% of the stablecoin market, according to https://www.defipulse.com/usd |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
06:09 |
mangol |
re: symbolics, i wonder how much their IP is worth, and why the rich lispers haven't got together, bought, and open sourced all of it |
| |
↖ ↖ |
06:10 |
mangol |
PG's family is nearly billionaires from ycombinator iirc. norvig is rich from google. even if smbx ip costs a million, they could easily do it |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 40 minutes ~ |
06:51 |
mangol |
whaack: asciilifeform: re http://ztkfg.com/2020/01/holy-shit-lizard-hitlers-scheme-to-scare-people-away-from-non-https-sites-is-working/ |
| |
↖ |
06:51 |
mangol |
is there a thorough explainer of the SSL/TLS saga somewhere? |
06:52 |
mangol |
for noobs. the basic problems are 1) centralized certificate authorities that are in states' pocket; 2) crypto probably backdoored ?? |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 1 hours 53 minutes ~ |
08:45 |
verisimilitude |
It's also unnecessary. |
08:46 |
verisimilitude |
It's a constant moving goal, which is great for those who like to destroy. |
08:48 |
crtdaydreams |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089799 << previously misinterpreted as "bollocks" |
08:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 01:28:37 mangol: case in point, only now realized that "bolix" is a contraction of "symbolics" |
08:49 |
crtdaydreams |
way funnier imo |
| |
~ 34 minutes ~ |
09:24 |
mangol |
that's the pronounciation i read as well. assumed it's intentional |
| |
~ 2 hours 29 minutes ~ |
11:53 |
crtdaydreams |
I'm just going to put this here. |
| |
~ 1 hours 58 minutes ~ |
13:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089794 << rip |
13:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 01:21:28 mangol: unrelated continuation, [https://www.linkedin.com/in/uncle-al-schwartz-317028b][Uncle Al Schwartz |
13:54 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089803 << amply discussed in the old logs. |
13:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 02:09:00 mangol: re: symbolics, i wonder how much their IP is worth, and why the rich lispers haven't got together, bought, and open sourced all of it |
13:54 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-05-12 asciilifeform: phf: last thing dks said to me was that the rights to the whole shebang were bought at auction by prof j mallery of mit/nsa. |
13:54 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2018-12-18 asciilifeform: ( iirc mallery 'bought' the 'properties' for an amt that does not by many zeroes exceed what asciilifeform bought the 1 box for . entirely a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831755 scenario, near as i can tell. ) |
13:54 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-11-14 asciilifeform: Kalman was hired after that by Symbolics Technology, Inc., who had acquired the assets of Symbolics from the bankruptcy court, to work on further productizing the emulator for the Alpha. This was used by John Mallery at MIT to run his document distribution system for the White House during the Clinton presidency. When the owners of that venture decided that a financial company had no business owning a computer com |
13:55 |
asciilifeform |
and see also. loox like not even the ancient support contract paid since '15 -- unless under the table |
| |
↖ |
13:56 |
asciilifeform |
afaik still owned by j. mallery, who most likely a minor-league nsa stooge. |
| |
↖ |
13:57 |
* |
asciilifeform can think of over9000 motivations for the reich to keep the thing dead & deeply buried. |
| |
↖ |
13:58 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile, cement testbed synced ! |
| |
↖ |
13:58 |
asciilifeform |
successful test. |
13:59 |
asciilifeform |
17 feb -- 28 mar. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
14:00 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
14:00 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $47737.09 |
14:00 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
14:00 |
watchglass |
Polling 15 nodes... |
14:00 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : Could not connect! |
14:00 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.162s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
14:00 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.173s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.205s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.261s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
14:00 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.259s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=729395 (Operator: whaack) |
14:00 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.338s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 |
14:00 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect! |
14:00 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.609s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 |
14:01 |
watchglass |
103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.484s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=388215 (Operator: whaack) |
14:02 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
14:03 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089827 << correction -- synced up to cement. atm still in 723k's (past cement) |
14:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 09:58:14 asciilifeform: 17 feb -- 28 mar. |
14:07 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089807 << twofold: pkiism per se is a backdoor; while the implementation itself is deliberately over9000 complex, and neverending source of 'heartbleed'-style 'bugs' |
14:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 02:51:43 mangol: for noobs. the basic problems are 1) centralized certificate authorities that are in states' pocket; 2) crypto probably backdoored ?? |
14:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089804 << what diff would it make if 1 nsa stooge were to 'buy it from' anuther ? |
| |
↖ |
14:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 02:10:00 mangol: PG's family is nearly billionaires from ycombinator iirc. norvig is rich from google. even if smbx ip costs a million, they could easily do it |
14:09 |
asciilifeform |
the goods will stay buried. |
14:10 |
PeterL |
maybe they will have a sudden philanthropic urge, hand asciilifeform the source and a bag of gold and say "go fix it"? |
| |
↖ |
14:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089803 << for ~2decades nao, rumours were cultivated that 'it'll be opensourced', and afaik simply to put braked on serious reversing work. |
14:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 02:09:00 mangol: re: symbolics, i wonder how much their IP is worth, and why the rich lispers haven't got together, bought, and open sourced all of it |
14:10 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-03-10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since '09 or so i was one of very few people publicly interested in reversing the bolix gear. and apparently ~all of the aficionados, saw me as 'dangerous fool' who 'might piss off dks'... |
14:10 |
PeterL |
since we are spending their money for them, why not have them pay to fix things the way we like? |
14:11 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: per reich , is already 'fixed' satisfactorily. |
14:11 |
PeterL |
aha |
14:11 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. unhappened. |
14:11 |
asciilifeform |
*brakes |
14:13 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: at this pt, no one even knows if the still seekrit sources (to e.g. bolix's 'ns' cmos cad) even ~still exist~) |
14:14 |
asciilifeform |
while the rest is right there in the warez, can run right nao. |
14:14 |
asciilifeform |
see also. |
14:15 |
asciilifeform |
the src of the (buggy) Official emulator has been on shithub for some yrs. |
14:16 |
asciilifeform |
afaik no one even tried to censor. |
14:17 |
asciilifeform |
afaik the only remaining tasks for a hypothetical spy hero is src for the ivory cpu per se, and the 'ns' cad in which written. |
14:17 |
asciilifeform |
supposing these even preserved anywhere. |
14:19 |
* |
asciilifeform has 5 'ivory' cpu stashed, 4 of'em brand-new, for microscopy, for which to this day 0 time/budget |
| |
↖ |
14:19 |
asciilifeform |
afaik bought up all the spares dks was willing to part with. |
14:19 |
asciilifeform |
(either that, or he took'em off the market when discovered who was buying and why) |
14:20 |
asciilifeform |
for a while he was letting'em (cpu in orig. packaging) for ~500$ ea. |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
14:59 |
whaack |
!w probe 103.6.212.28 |
14:59 |
watchglass |
103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.664s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=388390 |
15:05 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089805 << I don't have a location for a detailed list of all the problems of SSL. It does boil down too the central authority problem, HTTPS is we-pick-your-wot-ratings-for-you. Also note that setting up HTTPS means requests to your site get tagged (and likely stored) in Goolag's mega DB. |
| |
↖ |
15:05 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 06:51:01 mangol: whaack: asciilifeform: re http://ztkfg.com/2020/01/holy-shit-lizard-hitlers-scheme-to-scare-people-away-from-non-https-sites-is-working/ |
15:06 |
whaack |
down to* |
15:12 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089744 << been spending copious amount of time in the water |
15:12 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-27 21:49:47 asciilifeform: !q seen whaack |
15:22 |
mangol |
i.e. like net neutrality, rehearsal for more comprehensive social credit system |
15:23 |
mangol |
central bank digital currency / health passport maybe the next moves in that space |
| |
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~ |
16:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089876 << attempt to make such list would resemble 'list all problems with eating glass'. |
16:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 11:04:41 whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089805 << I don't have a location for a detailed list of all the problems of SSL. It does boil down too the central authority problem, HTTPS is we-pick-your-wot-ratings-for-you. Also note that setting up HTTPS means requests to your site get tagged (and likely stored) in Goolag's mega DB. |
16:47 |
mangol |
searched logs for openbsd and is nothing sacred? part II |
16:47 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2020-11-01 12:27:26 shinohai: https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/5bde2954c180034a27b079acaff46073dc75139b <<< I just noticed TrannyBSD did this. |
16:47 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-26 17:35:59 mangol: zlib - is nothing sacred? |
16:48 |
mangol |
"some language improvements" |
16:49 |
mangol |
it's nice how the SJWism goes hand in hand with vague corporate language. next up, plugging security holes = "some reliability improvements" |
16:59 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
17:21 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089854 << lulzy how many folx who oughta know better think that this kinda thing actually happens. |
17:21 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 10:09:23 PeterL: maybe they will have a sudden philanthropic urge, hand asciilifeform the source and a bag of gold and say "go fix it"? |
17:21 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2018-04-13 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: some time, though of course not enough to support a whole project for a whole year. i'm wondering about great flowering riches |
17:22 |
signpost |
https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/170281?v=4 << these always look like they want to eat a gun. |
17:22 |
signpost |
creature from shinohai's link |
17:22 |
asciilifeform |
( 'philanthropy' -- money laundering & meritwashing. ) |
17:23 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: fella loox like sad hobo |
17:27 |
asciilifeform |
in further thread necromancy, d00d's donation box to this day not 'flowering' anymoar than anybody else's |
17:27 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2018-04-13 zx2c4: to put differently, if 2000 BTC suddenly showed up in 1ASnTs4UjXKR8tHnLi9yG42n42hbFYV2um, I'd be quite happy and don't think i'd be worse off |
17:28 |
asciilifeform |
( apparently addr still same today as was then ) |
17:28 |
* |
asciilifeform remembers that zx2c4 is nominally tuned in. invited to comment. |
17:32 |
signpost |
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-are-all-latest-news-and-developments-ukraine-war-march-28 << this is getting good. |
17:33 |
signpost |
"Russian lawmaker Abramov says G7's refusal to pay in Russian roubles for gas will definitely lead to a halt in supplies." |
17:33 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: ftr ukrs gettin' ru gas for ~20y w/out payin' ~anyffin |
| |
↖ |
17:33 |
asciilifeform |
even nao. |
17:34 |
zx2c4 |
Yes, BTC address still the same on that page. |
17:34 |
zx2c4 |
Ahhh back when I panhandled and mircea got angry |
17:34 |
asciilifeform |
zx2c4: iirc yer proggy is used by over9000 today. and still evidently no 'philanthropists' eh |
17:35 |
* |
signpost loves wireguard, using currently. |
17:35 |
* |
asciilifeform recently ran into it when a client took it up |
17:35 |
zx2c4 |
asciilifeform: indeed the project is massive but no bitcoinbenefactor has swept in with the millions |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
see also... |
17:36 |
zx2c4 |
i'm still doing it "full time" and just sort of living on whatever i can get from whomever - companies, non profit grants, etc |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
aa, so they donate, but in saecular moneys rather than btc? |
17:37 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089904 << looking forward to when europe refuses to pay, continues to slurp. |
| |
↖ |
17:37 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 13:33:01 asciilifeform: signpost: ftr ukrs gettin' ru gas for ~20y w/out payin' ~anyffin |
17:38 |
zx2c4 |
asciilifeform: at the beginning much more than now. in the early days, vpn companies thought it was a good marketing thing to do. now that's mostly passed and things are a lot tougher. your loper-os.org blurb seems to have some truth in it in my experience |
| |
↖ |
17:39 |
zx2c4 |
i'd say generally that it's not a terrific situation, but i do intend to keep freesoftwaring for as long as i feasibly can, and hopefully some luck will come my way at some point |
17:40 |
zx2c4 |
for the last few months ive been fixing the linux kernel rng, and obviously nobody with money cares about that |
17:41 |
asciilifeform |
zx2c4: pretty typical; you can write whatever proggy, that saves whatever mega-dough for over9000 users, and see, if yer lucky, some pennies in hat |
17:41 |
zx2c4 |
yulllp |
17:41 |
asciilifeform |
zx2c4: fwiw long ago asciilifeform solved rng problem on pc inexpensively; 0 surprises for guessing how much money from it, etc |
17:42 |
asciilifeform |
*0 prizes |
17:42 |
zx2c4 |
hah. |
17:43 |
asciilifeform |
iirc there was a fella writing kernel driver for it at one pt. vanished into the night. |
17:43 |
zx2c4 |
in terms of _hardware_ now a days people who want that just use rdrand or a tpm or whatever and call it "good enough", even if you cant audit it and it might be backdoored etc |
17:44 |
asciilifeform |
well not 'now a days' but for decade+ nao |
17:44 |
zx2c4 |
At the very least, linux 5.18 now hashes all rdrand values, which removes one kind of backdoor potential |
17:44 |
asciilifeform |
who wants to build auditable+unwhitened rng, can do so, all schematics, srcs, posted, in '16. |
17:44 |
zx2c4 |
that's a cool project |
17:45 |
asciilifeform |
zx2c4: the most interesting part was the discovery that ~nobody gives rat's arse |
17:45 |
signpost |
backdoorism is more a feature than bug to most who would otherwise pay. |
17:46 |
zx2c4 |
asciilifeform: Yea... I think most people generally figure their OS rng is "good enough" -- that interrupts and disk seek times and mouse movements and whatever else combine together to do something passable |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
1990s state of art, aha. |
17:47 |
* |
asciilifeform recalls msdos util that used jitter of cpu clock vs rtc's |
17:48 |
zx2c4 |
asciilifeform: linus has "reinvented" the cycle counter jitter stuff on linux |
17:48 |
zx2c4 |
the "linus jitter dance" in https://www.zx2c4.com/projects/linux-rng-5.17-5.18/ |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
see also |
17:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-08-20 19:00:15 asciilifeform: it is also the case that rng as commercial product is a very questionable biz proposition. it takes quite a bit of 'adulthood' to even get to a place where you actually benefit from a 1000 $ rng. for instance, microshit victims dun really win anyffin from using whatever external rng. |
17:48 |
zx2c4 |
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/crng/random.git/commit/?id=50ee7529ec45 |
17:49 |
signpost |
huh, does this mean early entropy is degraded on old platforms with this patch? |
| |
↖ |
17:50 |
signpost |
"This only works when you have a high-frequency time stamp |
17:50 |
signpost |
counter available, but that's the case on all modern x86 CPU's, and on |
17:50 |
signpost |
most other modern CPU's too. |
17:50 |
signpost |
" |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
'worx great' 'nobody complains' just like nobody complained about the debianized rng until yrs after the fact.. |
17:51 |
zx2c4 |
Good old debianrng |
17:52 |
asciilifeform |
nor is any aspect of the hfts behaviour actually guaranteed (can do moar or less whatever it wants under hypervisors, for instance) |
17:55 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089915 << will slurp until turned off, why not |
17:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 13:36:35 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089904 << looking forward to when europe refuses to pay, continues to slurp. |
17:56 |
* |
asciilifeform recalls episode from many yrs ago when switched isps, from 'cable' to fiber, and 2y later found that cable modem still connects, gets ip |
17:58 |
signpost |
heh, nice additional bandwidth. |
17:59 |
asciilifeform |
indeed, if had thought of powering it up |
18:00 |
* |
signpost recalls many years ago bonding a whole cul-de-sac's worth of wifi connections, didn't even reach 1/20th of current connection speed. |
18:00 |
* |
asciilifeform ran off exactly such a contraption when was a student |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
was 100kb/s on a good day |
18:00 |
signpost |
dad: "what in the hell are all these antennas in your room" me:"experiment!!" |
18:01 |
signpost |
yeah, fun was just in the doing. |
18:01 |
signpost |
upstack, will assume that my oldenboxen have no business on 5.18 kernel |
18:05 |
* |
asciilifeform ignores new kernels unless new iron incompat. w/ old |
18:05 |
asciilifeform |
... and next time will prolly simply backport the driv |
18:08 |
verisimilitude |
I'm accustomed to getting a connection measured in dozens of kibibytes per second. |
18:08 |
verisimilitude |
My ``fast'' connection gets close to one mebibyte per second, I believe. |
18:09 |
verisimilitude |
Leaving the machine on for a twenty hour download helps build character. |
18:09 |
verisimilitude |
Overnight, that is. |
18:10 |
verisimilitude |
Hello, zx2c4; I don't use Wireguard, but I do recall an entertaining presentation about it. |
18:12 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: dialup ? |
18:13 |
verisimilitude |
Sure, it's close. |
18:15 |
signpost |
wherein we find verisimilitude lives in a rural town in tibet, learned english by reading /pol/ |
18:15 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
18:46 |
PeterL |
verisimilitude: I didn't want to be the one to ask, but I am curious: what sort of wacky position are you using that it hurts your wrists? |
18:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-26 20:22:18 verisimilitude: No, I stopped masturbating often because it was bad for my wrists. |
| |
~ 41 minutes ~ |
19:27 |
verisimilitude |
It's simply not good, PeterL. |
19:40 |
signpost |
$ticker btc usd |
19:40 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $48063.69 |
19:51 |
verisimilitude |
I don't believe I've ever used a computer which met even very low expectations. |
19:52 |
verisimilitude |
Just running Emacs and a few other programs without crashing or freezing isn't met. |
19:53 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: how often yer emacs crashes / freezes ? |
19:53 |
verisimilitude |
Well, until I bought the Pinebook Pro, maybe a few times a year. |
19:54 |
asciilifeform |
maybe rubbish iron ? |
19:54 |
verisimilitude |
See, this shitty software doesn't deserve that doubt. |
19:54 |
* |
asciilifeform has that box, but is gathering dust for yrs nao, never got to any serious attempt to bake a dulap-gentoo for it |
19:54 |
verisimilitude |
With software failures like this, who needs hardware failures? |
19:55 |
verisimilitude |
It's the desktop environment which is the issue. |
19:55 |
verisimilitude |
I've never experienced such odd graphical failures before. |
19:57 |
* |
signpost wouldn't rule out bugs in the gpu driver |
19:57 |
verisimilitude |
Does it really matter? |
19:58 |
verisimilitude |
At least it doesn't have a fan, or that would've failed by now too. |
19:59 |
* |
signpost also bought pinebook pro, now collecting dust |
19:59 |
asciilifeform |
in past 20y seems were only 2 kinds of lappy -- the kind where fan, and sounds like shop vac, and the kind that overheats & melts down |
| |
↖ |
19:59 |
asciilifeform |
sometimes you get '2 for price of 1' |
19:59 |
verisimilitude |
If I couldn't get up and leave the machine, to do something else, I'd lose my mind. |
20:00 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: fwiw asciilifeform got nowhere in the process of trying to get hygienic xorg going on it |
20:00 |
asciilifeform |
( would've encountered identical boojum w/ rk, but never attempted a non-headless rk ) |
20:00 |
* |
signpost firmly in the fuck-it, will use a recent x1 carbon for portable machine, and assume it's as private as any public park bench. |
20:01 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: dunthink i've used that one ( presumably moar recent than x60 ? ) |
20:01 |
verisimilitude |
I don't trust the Pinebook Pro anyway, but it would be nice to be able to trust it just a little. |
20:01 |
signpost |
yeah, it's their thinputer. |
20:01 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: was pushed as 'lappy w/ open schematics', 'blobless boot', etc. and asciilifeform bought under the notion that he could get rk-gentoo goin' on it |
20:02 |
asciilifeform |
to add insult to injury, ended up with a unit w/ oddball heathen keyboard layout , too ( regular ones were sold out ) |
20:02 |
verisimilitude |
I'm waiting for OpenBSD to have a port, so I can get something. |
20:02 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: what's missing ? |
20:02 |
* |
asciilifeform guesses -- vga |
20:03 |
verisimilitude |
It locks up randomly is what's the issue. |
20:03 |
verisimilitude |
It's completely unreliable. |
20:03 |
verisimilitude |
I don't even know how to have it fsck at boot. |
20:03 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: dies silently (i.e. nuffin in logs re e.g. thermals, etc) ? |
20:03 |
verisimilitude |
No, I have to hold down the power button. |
20:04 |
verisimilitude |
It can't go two weeks without a reboot, whereas the old Thinkpad can go years. |
20:05 |
* |
asciilifeform encountered this kinda thing many times, but typically on the ancient opterons he uses, where capacitor plague, rather than new laps |
20:05 |
signpost |
two categories of hardware in my mind. one, old enough that culture hadn't rotted to the point of backdooring being an industry standard, or two, recent item that had the wave of money poured over it to smooth the most egregious sharp edges. |
20:05 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: asciilifeform hasn't much experience with the latter |
20:06 |
asciilifeform |
aside from , i suppose, a fat 'threadripper' a client sent in. running 24/7 for >yr nao |
20:07 |
asciilifeform |
( was sent in... 1 part at a time. the little tension wrench the cpu came with was lulzy ) |
20:07 |
asciilifeform |
notbad box, if a bit loud |
20:07 |
* |
signpost has a 16 core ryzen at home, baby version of ^ |
20:07 |
signpost |
nice for make -j16 |
20:07 |
verisimilitude |
Only batch systems work at all, I suppose. |
20:08 |
signpost |
considered "public ground" also |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
-j48 and then 'shop vac' lol |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
but runs. |
20:09 |
asciilifeform |
prolly 1st box asciilifeform ever had in torture room where emacs not 'felt slow' under syntax highlighting of weighty turds |
20:09 |
signpost |
to think megacorps spend extra money on white noise machines for the office, rather than moar brrrrrrrr. |
20:10 |
verisimilitude |
I wonder how writing a sane network operating system would go. |
20:10 |
signpost |
what's sanity look like here? |
20:10 |
verisimilitude |
That is, program for a simple router, and have a system that only has a network interface. |
20:11 |
signpost |
verisimilitude: this'd be a mighty fine item, if it could reliably act as a point-to-point connection with peers. |
20:11 |
signpost |
semi-permeable membrane |
20:12 |
verisimilitude |
Basically, have a system that supports multiple protocols, using little code, have it designed so that simpler such servers could be ``scaled'' automatically, and let control happen over things like FTP or a special signed-command protocol. |
20:12 |
verisimilitude |
I was thinking about the design for a little UDP server I'm going to write soon, and how it could be ``scaled'' indefinitely, and what a general system would look like. |
20:14 |
verisimilitude |
Have a ``permanent storage'' internal system, and let protocols such as HTTP, Gopher, and FTP be written so: Is my $formatted store available? If so, send it. If not, filter ``permanent storage'' data so, cache it, and then send it. |
20:14 |
signpost |
imho, why not have the thing just speak "pest", and build all additional functionality a layer above. |
20:15 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: asciilifeform proposed similar item many yrs ago, 'coupla kB of asm that'd throw signed packets from 1 nic into other' |
20:15 |
asciilifeform |
naodays obv. Right Thing would be w/ pest. |
20:15 |
verisimilitude |
So, have an article available as lines. Gopher would want each line followed by newline, and a terminator, if the data should be treated as text. This would be stored in RAM. Similarly, HTTP could take the same data, template it, and store it to serve later requests. Only one copy, the master copy, is stored permanently. |
20:16 |
verisimilitude |
I wonder how feasible this would be. I could target an MMC at the architecture and easily write kibibytes of machine code, if it were truly so simple. |
20:17 |
asciilifeform |
99% of the difficulty is the nic per se. |
| |
↖ |
20:17 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-09-17 asciilifeform: i hunted for years and found what imho is the simplest GB/s-capable nic, the rt8168. here is the linux driver, https://github.com/mtorromeo/r8168/tree/master/src |
20:17 |
* |
asciilifeform at one pt in (long-dead) commercial shop burned 6mo+ on attempt to get that nic going 'ab initio', ran aground. |
20:18 |
asciilifeform |
the rock on which ran aground concretely ftr. |
20:18 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-09-17 asciilifeform: phf: the thing needs real-time interrupt handling just to init. |
20:18 |
verisimilitude |
As figured. |
20:18 |
asciilifeform |
debugged w/ sagetron, w/out which project would have been ~unthinkable |
20:19 |
asciilifeform |
apu1 box. |
20:19 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089990 << newer chips (not sure how new) have "thermal throttling" where slow down the chip if temps get too high or fan too loud per some formula |
20:19 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 19:59:10 asciilifeform: in past 20y seems were only 2 kinds of lappy -- the kind where fan, and sounds like shop vac, and the kind that overheats & melts down |
20:19 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: seems like his wedged properly, rather than simply slow |
20:20 |
* |
signpost figures there oughta be a few folks here that can afford to go on a small hardware adventure sometime around 2024, assuming north america isn't covered in radioactive cobalt by then. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ |
20:21 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: what do you have in mind ? |
20:21 |
verisimilitude |
I'm interested. |
20:21 |
verisimilitude |
I could handle the firmware, or microcode. |
20:21 |
signpost |
the network-edge pest membrane is interesting to me. |
20:22 |
asciilifeform |
it's the troo way to do line-rate pestron. |
20:23 |
asciilifeform |
ideally would fpga instead of apu1's cpu, do the sha384 thing 'in iron', easily gb/s eating/shitting |
20:23 |
asciilifeform |
ditto serpentism |
20:24 |
signpost |
yep, mighty fine thing to exist. |
20:24 |
* |
asciilifeform wrote the rudiments of serpent for ice40, never had the cycles to finish |
20:24 |
asciilifeform |
interestingly to this day there aint one published anywhere afaik |
20:24 |
asciilifeform |
(for any fpga) |
20:25 |
* |
asciilifeform orig. wanted to bake an iron disk crypter w/ it |
20:25 |
signpost |
nomoar financial suicide missions, but if our dark lord BTC permits, imho must. |
20:25 |
verisimilitude |
My proposal was more general than just Pest, but could include it. |
20:25 |
verisimilitude |
Financial suicide missions require bodies to suicide. |
20:26 |
asciilifeform |
errybody's on suicide mission, just some slower, others faster, lol |
20:26 |
* |
signpost just means slower, such that item gets to see the day. |
20:27 |
verisimilitude |
I mean a financial suicide mission requires a financial body to suicide, asciilifeform. |
20:27 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: the other irresistible feature of hypothetical iron pestron, naturally -- radio |
20:27 |
signpost |
the uwb item is also on my mind, but I didn't want to stack too many skypies at once |
20:28 |
asciilifeform |
well if you've fpga, it's 'phree', at least in so far as the iron goes |
20:29 |
asciilifeform |
and pest's 'if you can decrypt it, it's for you' is pretty good fit for radioism. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
20:33 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1090037 So the best bet, currently, is to massively trim down a Linux kernel and just run, say, one process? |
20:33 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-28 16:16:10 asciilifeform: 99% of the difficulty is the nic per se. |
20:39 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: loses 100% of the point |
20:40 |
verisimilitude |
Yes. |
20:44 |
asciilifeform |
approx. how long you have to weigh a packet to run gb/s. |
20:44 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-09-23 15:18:42 asciilifeform: a single cpu would need to process each packet inside ~4.41uS. |
20:44 |
asciilifeform |
~may~ be doable in tight asm on apu1 (w/out fpgaism) running absolutely nuffin else, w/ entire 'kernel' fitting in l0 cache. |
20:45 |
asciilifeform |
for 100m/s, multiply by 10. |
20:45 |
asciilifeform |
if certain that can use both cores -- by 2. |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
obv. also will depend on # of peers, also. |
20:47 |
asciilifeform |
for reasoning re subj, must assume that all 'ddos' packets are replays of recent, valid ones from peers. |
20:47 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. worst case.) |
20:47 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. within that interval must be able to decrypt ~and~ dedupe. |
20:48 |
asciilifeform |
theoretically if yer pestron can't keep up with line rate, still usable (but will be subjectively slower), situation equivalent to random loss |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
and naturally you'll need a tight impl. of whole protocol, or not much point to the exercise. |
20:49 |
signpost |
if I may ask a few stupid questions, is it a reasonable model to imagine that packet comes in, transits friend/foe process, and is written in decrypted form to some memory space addressable by another system? |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: friend/foe requires most of the protocol, neh |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
( or how to distinguish 'friend' from 'enemy replay of friend' ) |
20:50 |
signpost |
yeah, not saying this process is trivial, just wondering at what the other side of the membrane looks like. |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
the other side, would expect, talks to console. |
20:51 |
* |
asciilifeform not sees much pt in such box if doesn't implement entire pest |
20:52 |
asciilifeform |
if it dun dedupe, then trivial to overwhelm whatever's downstream |
20:52 |
signpost |
yup, I'm not questioning that. |
20:52 |
verisimilitude |
The other side should be an append-only record log. |
20:53 |
signpost |
right, I'm questioning into at what point the newly baked hardware item hands off to another system, and in what form. |
20:54 |
signpost |
currently there's an implementation that speaks IRC on the other side. if the hardware item does the same, brings in having to implement tcp, which I assume would be hefty. |
20:54 |
verisimilitude |
Well, a public log could use a simple protocol. |
20:54 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: most obv. shape would imho be where 1 jack 'to wild' and other to lan, and on the latter irc console listener |
20:54 |
verisimilitude |
Otherwise, something specialized be needed. |
20:55 |
verisimilitude |
A network operating system would do well to have a trusted serial port, say, for easy physical access. |
20:55 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: not necessarily hefty, as it dun get exposed to planet and dun need to support >1 connection at time |
20:55 |
asciilifeform |
easily serialport aha |
20:55 |
asciilifeform |
no tcp then needed at all |
20:55 |
asciilifeform |
( e.g. apu1 has 1 soldered on already ) |
20:55 |
* |
asciilifeform talked to his apu1 experiments largely via serialport |
20:55 |
signpost |
serial is probably the easiest v1 rear end. |
20:56 |
asciilifeform |
iirc posted example of 'os' for apu1 which talks over the included uart |
20:56 |
* |
asciilifeform can't currently turn up in log, if anyone wants, will look later |
20:57 |
signpost |
can even see use for systems which only serial one way, in. |
20:57 |
asciilifeform |
well for pestron need 2way |
20:58 |
asciilifeform |
(at the very least you gotta enwot/enkey it) |
20:58 |
asciilifeform |
even if it'll only 'listen' rather than speak afterwards |
20:58 |
verisimilitude |
Have it treat one peer specially, as the user himself. |
20:58 |
* |
signpost wallettron sent a one-way serial message into a box which shat signed txn to a printer, which I then inspected on a second isolated machine before scanning to send on the net-connected one. |
20:59 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: we're talking about a 'red/black' separator in iron, where 0 secrets travel in/outta 1 of the jacks, tho |
| |
↖ |
20:59 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: right, recall |
21:00 |
signpost |
wasn't perfect, still had a fat-assed linux behind the serial connection, but model indicates the direction I intended to drag it. |
21:00 |
asciilifeform |
would defo make sense to have wot config go 100% via local serial (if not all of console) |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
whole console could easily tho |
21:01 |
signpost |
can even split these in interesting ways, such that box that must hear is not the same as can issue commands, yeah. |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
well yes assumed that's ~whole point of an iron pestron |
21:01 |
* |
signpost just indicating he's tracking |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
'world' jack physically separate from 'red' jack |
21:03 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
21:04 |
signpost |
cya |
21:17 |
signpost |
ah, to clarify. I was talking about having a box *behind* the pest membrane which can only hear, not send. not talking about the world-side. |
21:17 |
signpost |
in the wallet case, would still want to be able to issue commands to pest, but prefer the assurance that the wallet service cannot say a damned thing to outside world. |
21:18 |
* |
signpost bbl also |
| |
~ 54 minutes ~ |
22:12 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: seems like in that case you can config the pestron and then connect only 1 pin of the serial port, as desired (tx or rx) |
22:13 |
asciilifeform |
^ in the fg example -- only tx (of fg) connected to only rx (of pc) |
22:15 |
asciilifeform |
for most applications, you want ~some~ kinda 'yes, nuke armed, issue 'BANG' to pop' confirm. tho |
| |
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~ |
23:23 |
verisimilitude |
It would be annoying to get a prompt every time I wanted to launch a nuke. |
23:24 |
verisimilitude |
I'd expect asciilifeform to support an interface intended for experienced professionals. |