Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2022-02-07 | 2022-02-09 →
01:07 vex aave made an onlyfans docs.lens.dev
~ 29 minutes ~
01:37 vex insert flashloan joke
~ 25 minutes ~
02:02 vex `ol mr bits for tits popescue might've seen the humour here
02:06 vex mebbe hanbot throws her hat into the ring for the impending pimpwarz
~ 22 minutes ~
02:29 vex anywhere seen naphex?
02:38 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere naphex
02:38 dulapbot The user naphex has never been seen by this logger.
02:39 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere Naphex
02:39 dulapbot Naphex last seen in #trilema on 2016-03-01 03:54:25: morning
02:39 vex ty.
02:40 vex bro prolly doesn't want to be found
02:40 vex or dead
02:41 vex hoq many ppl read nosuch logs alf?
02:42 asciilifeform nfi
02:42 vex cool
02:44 vex how's the casa coming along?
02:45 vex done any skids in the f-truck yet?
02:47 vex it's got a locking diff in the back right? you must have walked it round an icy corner
02:48 asciilifeform 2wd
02:48 asciilifeform slowly
02:48 vex so sensible
02:49 * vex approves
02:50 asciilifeform lulzily strip of iron came off 1 of the doors. will weld it back on at some prt
02:51 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-07#1078392 << asciilifeform doesn't miss the chrematist scum and dun need'em for anyffin whatsoever
02:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-07 21:40:19 vex: bro prolly doesn't want to be found
02:51 vex love it. full ratter
02:52 vex what was naphex's crime?
02:52 asciilifeform being a snore
02:52 asciilifeform see for yerself.
02:57 vex Yeah, had the pneumonia.
02:58 vex Had a flash pad tho. .ro spec
02:59 vex penthouse. woulda looked flash in any city
03:01 vex mebbe he moved somewhere warmer
03:04 vex although, BingoBoingo for instance moved from Chigago or whatever, still caught pneumonia
03:07 vex !seen-anywhere BingoBoingo
03:07 scoopbot vex: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, update
03:08 vex !q seen-anywhere BingoBoingo
03:08 dulapbot BingoBoingo last seen in #asciilifeform on 2021-12-25 12:57:26: Merry Christmas
03:09 vex eek. it's been a month? baby bingos is my best bet
03:14 vex also prolly a stanislav
03:14 vex else why you need bulldozer?
03:25 vex a bit of plate and a couple^n tek screws. voilia bulldozer
03:27 vex does it work. no. we need a bulldozer
03:35 * vex realises his nsore status
03:39 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y3VnMm53pc
03:47 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492p1sCou_U
03:53 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNSpLqmY6K0
~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~
04:57 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl_FUVz2trE
~ 3 hours 41 minutes ~
08:38 crtdaydreams vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb01SmhKmZg
08:40 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-07#1078404 << '(tig mig stick) ?
08:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-07 21:51:04 asciilifeform: lulzily strip of iron came off 1 of the doors. will weld it back on at some prt
08:45 crtdaydreams vex: oblig. http://musicforprogramming.net
~ 5 hours 27 minutes ~
14:13 asciilifeform !w poll
14:13 watchglass Polling 14 nodes...
14:13 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.086s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345 (Operator: asciilifeform)
14:13 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.023s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345 (Operator: asciilifeform)
14:13 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.167s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=722345 (Operator: whaack)
14:13 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.217s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.259s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.313s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721988
14:13 watchglass 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.328s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.536s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:13 watchglass 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.705s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=722345
14:14 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
14:14 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
~ 3 hours 35 minutes ~
17:50 thimbronion https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/largest-financial-seizure-ever-doj-announces-billions-bitcoin-2016-bitfinex-hack-recovered
17:52 thimbronion Most bitfinex users are likely better off having their bitcoin "stolen" and "recovered"
~ 18 minutes ~
18:10 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-07#1078381 <<< bot's vm lease expired, imma try and rehome it by this weekend.
18:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-07 12:31:22 asciilifeform: shinohai: coulja plz hit reset on that thing when you've a chance? was neat to have the ticker.
~ 34 minutes ~
18:45 asciilifeform a ok
18:46 asciilifeform thimbronion: seems likely it'll be 'returned' (if at all) as fiatolade
18:49 asciilifeform 'After the execution of court-authorized search warrants of online accounts controlled by Lichtenstein and Morgan, special agents obtained access to files within an online account controlled by Lichtenstein. Those files contained the private keys required to access the digital wallet that directly received the funds stolen...' << lol
18:50 asciilifeform 'genius' heist... pinch 1e5 btc, park in gox
18:52 * asciilifeform ftr sees far moar likely scenario -- shitfinex stole customer coinz, proceeds to lizards/waterfall, rando orc appointed scapegoat
18:53 asciilifeform i.e. usg's indictments have approx. same relationship to fact as freisler's.
18:54 asciilifeform 'this fella torched the reichstag. see, we found a box of matches in his pocket.'
18:55 asciilifeform water for waterfall gotta come from sumwhere. this is traditionally where.
~ 21 minutes ~
19:17 thimbronion fwics doesn't say anything wrt how the funds will be dispersed
19:24 thimbronion I wonder if someone at DOJ does TA and is consulted as to the best time to release fud for maximum effect.
19:32 PeterL "Agent Elon is about to send a tweet saying he is dumping all his bitcoin, wait until after that to drop the fund bomb"
19:43 asciilifeform if these folx have half a brain between'em all, then naturally
~ 16 minutes ~
20:00 thimbronion https://twitter.com/notgrubles/status/1491129892779757570/photo/1 << one of the accused freelanced for Forbes
20:01 thimbronion the alleged twatter account of same: https://twitter.com/HeatherReyhan
20:03 asciilifeform loox to be snoar
20:04 thimbronion purported self poasted tiktok account of same: https://twitter.com/BillSPACman/status/1491131214014869505
20:07 pete_rizzo_ Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/b6aee730e11798b7b6a2ab348a246562/pasted.txt
20:08 pete_rizzo_ Hi All – I think you may have heard I have some questions about the TRB Bitcoin implementation. I've uploaded them in the text file above, and was hoping some folks might be able to help me test this out
20:12 PeterL pete_rizzo_: citation needed for how it is less secure?
20:13 pete_rizzo_ I'm not sure there's a specific citation. This has just been cited by various core developers to me as their assumption of TRB Bitcoin compares to their current implementation
20:13 PeterL maybe you can be more specific about what sort of attack you are thinking of?
20:13 PeterL I think it would be on them to provide evidence that the changes they are making provide some sort of security benefit?
20:14 pete_rizzo_ Right. I'm not saying they are right. In fact, I hope that my interest in the TRB implementation shows that I am open-minded and just trying to bridge a knowledge gap. I think if it is proven that TRB is very secure (from a theoretical standpoint) to me that seems like the much more interesting outcome
20:15 thimbronion pete_rizzo_: one aspect of security is code complexity
20:16 pete_rizzo_ PeterL This is where being a non-developer works against me. The assertion seems to be, should some attacker be aware of a user who had a lot of bitcoin, and who was running TRB, it would be possible to steal that Bitcoin in a trivial way, though this claim hasn't been substantiated to me
20:17 thimbronion pete_rizzo_: I haven't actually compared the codebases, but I suspect core (as they call it) is more complex, having more features.
20:18 thimbronion pete_rizzo_: thus the likeleyhood of a catastrophic bug is higher for core, if that is ineed the case.
20:18 pete_rizzo_ Well, the argument seems to be something like... core (even its newer soft fork features) are protected by the majority hashpower... and TRB somehow isn't
20:18 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-08#1078470 <<< I'd argue that "core" is the "dissenting implementation of Bitcoin" and not vice-versa.
20:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-08 15:07:33 pete_rizzo_: Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/b6aee730e11798b7b6a2ab348a246562/pasted.txt
20:21 pete_rizzo_ I don't think that's a bad argument shinohai though i'm not sure it gets to the heart of what i'm asking, which is what is the relationship between these two things. Ie -- what is the benefit of you both being on the same network? How does that even work? And why is that desirable for each party?
20:22 * shinohai is mobile, but would need to further research ....
20:23 pete_rizzo_ What seems to be getting ignored is that both parties seem to be technically doing very different things within the same consensus...
20:24 pete_rizzo_ so, how is that possible? why is the desirable? and why does that not occur elsewhere in the coin world? and if there is something meaningfully unique about bitcoin's consensus going on, what actually is it?
20:34 pete_rizzo_ Some of this feels fairly intuitive. It just feels non-specific.
20:34 pete_rizzo_ Ie -- Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 1. discordant implementations of Bitcoin
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 2. benefit for users (they get their desired rules)
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 3. cons: there are separate chains and separate asset prices
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 4. security (con) (dependent on separate groups of miners for each chain)
20:34 pete_rizzo_ Ie -- TRB and Bitcoin Core
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 1. discordant implementations of bitcoin
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 2. each group gets their desired rules
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 3. pros: not separate chains or separate coins (obviously good?)
20:34 pete_rizzo_ 4. security (?) (shared hashpower securing transactions?)
20:35 pete_rizzo_ anyway. sorry if this is disruptive. happy to chat about this in dm if anyone is interested
20:36 pete_rizzo_ I obviously also understand the social and theoretical reasons there is the split (re: shinohai's comment) but that seems separate from defining actual resulting situation is
20:40 asciilifeform wb to #a, pete_rizzo_
20:42 pete_rizzo_ 🎩
20:42 * asciilifeform sees hex barf in place of (presumed) hieroglyph
20:43 shinohai Must suck to see hex in place of emojis of pregnant men.
20:43 pete_rizzo_ it was a top hat. felt appropriate
20:44 shinohai oh hey I can see it in glowing bear
20:45 PeterL I just got a rectangle
20:46 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: trb is largely same as the 'official' client from 2012, i.e. just prior to the 'official' devs becoming full-bore nsa stooges; with a # of bug fixes and simplifications (removal of various idiocies and backdoors e.g. 'alert').
20:47 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: they sit on same network (the stooges tried & failed to destroy bitcoin via forkwar in '17) to this day
20:47 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: naturally if you ask the nsa stooges anyffin re bitcoin, and in particular, trb, they will give you all kindsa scripted goebbelsesque nonsense
20:48 pete_rizzo_ right. that part i understand. But the main core implementation has changed. specifically in two forks that with different rules now upheld by "majority hashpower" (segwit + taproot). So, assuming that some other implementation is "protected by the majority hashpower" what is exactly is that protection you don't have. What added costs (wallet,
20:48 pete_rizzo_ consensus, etc) are imposed on TRB as a "minority implementation"
20:49 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: there isn't a two-sided forkwar featuring segwit yet.
20:49 pete_rizzo_ if any, and i concede, there might be none. i just don't know how to prove that out
20:50 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: the bch war was rather informative 'preview' tho, of what happens in a forkwar.
20:50 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-26 21:01:47 asciilifeform: what you'd get is a moar or less exact replay of the bch warz. and yes conceivable that it'd somehow come out to 'megablox win' if all the folx who dumped bch have since contracted brainworm and luvvv megablox and pine for 1000GB hearnblox and fullbore paypalization
20:51 pete_rizzo_ an ideal test i'd like to run is one that proves TRB has the same level of security and functionality as Core
20:52 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: anyone with half hr spare time can bake a fork of bitcoin. and if yer a well-connected scammer, can even get the forkcoin 'listed on exchanges' and 'have an exchange rate'. however when you bake a fork, you hand out free forkcoin 1:1 to erry holder of actual bitcoin. which then (when can be bothered) go and sell yer 'free gift'.
20:52 pete_rizzo_ http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
20:52 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: what evidence would you accept for such a proof ?
20:54 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: moar apropos piece re subj of forkwarz
20:54 pete_rizzo_ that was the one where i discovered bitcoin-assets
20:56 pete_rizzo_ I'm not quite sure. If I was commissioning it as an academic study, I guess what I would like to see is... There's some taxonomy: Here's how security and functionality are defined at the consensus (node level), at the wallet level, and mining level. Here's how TRB compares to Core. I think this would prove there's a meaningful ability for you to be
20:56 pete_rizzo_ a dissenting minority within bitcoin
20:56 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: your orig. paste q seems to suppose there is presently a forkwar. there isn't.
20:56 pete_rizzo_ what do you mean by that? i don't think TRB is a separate network, or that it is trying to be
20:57 asciilifeform ( well technically bch still exists. but as a joke long past expir date )
20:57 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-26 20:56:00 busybot: Current BCH price in BTC: $0.007835
20:57 pete_rizzo_ but that does mean a majority of people are still enforcing rules (Core) that some minority (TRB) is not
20:58 pete_rizzo_ so the question then, would be, how to the other parts of the network -- node, mining, wallet -- interact with each, and is it even meaningfully different
20:59 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: are you familiar with the mechanics of 'segwit' ?
20:59 asciilifeform ( if not, see e.g. whaack's piece re subj )
20:59 pete_rizzo_ to the extent that a non-technical person could be i suppose
21:01 asciilifeform see also prev. thrd.
21:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-10-11 13:36:39 punkman: pete_rizzo_: from trb perspective, segwit transactions are "anyone can spend" and have no signatures
21:02 pete_rizzo_ right, i understand on a high level how the soft forking rules work and why the core developers like using soft forks. their argument is that this (doesn't fork anyone off the chain) and gives everyone time to upgrade. BUT they still don't seem to acknowledge that what you're doing (ignoring this) is possible or desirable
21:02 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: do you have a grasp of why bch ended up as a joak coin ?
21:02 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-26 20:56:00 busybot: Current BCH price in BTC: $0.007835
21:03 asciilifeform i.e. why didn't btc holders run to sell traditional-btc and load up on bch when they were issued their free bch as result of the fork ?
21:03 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-08 15:52:14 asciilifeform: pete_rizzo_: anyone with half hr spare time can bake a fork of bitcoin. and if yer a well-connected scammer, can even get the forkcoin 'listed on exchanges' and 'have an exchange rate'. however when you bake a fork, you hand out free forkcoin 1:1 to erry holder of actual bitcoin. which then (when can be bothered) go and sell yer 'free gift'.
21:04 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: suppose the 'soft' fork were made 'hard' today. how and why will result differ from bch ? (was effectively same thing as a 'hardened' segwit)
21:04 pete_rizzo_ because a version of bitcoin in which it was possible for the majority to enforce some unwanted rules on a majority was bad, and risked funamentally compromising what made the bitcoin asset unique
21:04 pete_rizzo_ one a minority*
21:05 asciilifeform pete_rizzo_: 'majorities' and 'minorities' have 0 to do with it
21:05 asciilifeform holders of coin have pistol to the head of miners.
21:05 pete_rizzo_ yes, i agree. full nodes define consensus, not miners
21:05 asciilifeform again nope
21:06 asciilifeform the folx who have the coin (and any fork coin that ends up 'gifted' to'em as an inescapable side effect of forking) can decide which one to keep and which to liquidate (while some idiots can still be found who will buy the jokecoin)
21:07 adlai in the specific scenario in question, doesn't the market between the two sides of the fork end up revealing the financial majority ?
21:07 asciilifeform this in turn determines the exch rate, and consequently whether miners can pay their mains current bill etc
21:07 asciilifeform wb to #a, adlai
21:07 adlai ty
21:07 asciilifeform long time nosee, adlai . didja get conscripted again or wat
21:08 adlai no; didn't I mention that they released me from the reserves? (although, I have actually considered volunteering... they pay reservists)
21:08 asciilifeform adlai: congrats
21:09 * adlai simply spent a while with hardly any keyboard usage, other than the piano
21:10 asciilifeform healthy
21:11 adlai during this time I spent a nontrivial amount of hours reading about the challenges using a touchscreen for the main machine would entail
21:12 asciilifeform 'gorilla arm disease'
21:12 asciilifeform not to mention unpleasant
21:12 * asciilifeform must brb
21:13 adlai I still think the interface is workable, and simply haven't taken any concrete steps because it'd require a massive amount of work
21:14 adlai pete_rizzo_: in my experience discussing soft forks (and segwit in particular), everyone acknowledges these issues, most of them simply don't make a big deal out of advertising them
21:17 adlai I saw that a pest specification has been published, and prototypes... congratulations
21:17 * adlai is reminded of the Yossarian quote, perhaps the best Yossarian quote of all:
21:20 adlai huh, I haven't read this book in a looong time!
21:20 adlai once I used to be able to locate quotes without an index or website
21:29 adlai "there were many officers' clubs that Yossarian had not helped build, but he was proudest of the one on Pianosa. It was a sturdy and complex monument to his powers of determination. Yossarian never went there to help until it was finished; then he went there often..."
21:38 asciilifeform adlai: lemme know when you've a pest station, will send you a peering key
21:39 asciilifeform adlai: billymg has a pestnet logger w/ reasonably good uptime.
21:40 asciilifeform adlai: current draft spec, asciilifeform recs to read if you've any spare cycles.
21:41 asciilifeform it aint particularly long, ought to take an hr at most for a reasonably literate fella
21:41 * adlai is glancing at this, after having skimmed conversations on the topic in the past
21:42 adlai I'm due for sleep soon, although I do intend to study what the conversations have led to
21:42 asciilifeform goodnight adlai
21:43 * asciilifeform will bbl: meat chores
21:43 adlai ttyl
~ 22 minutes ~
22:05 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-06#1068877 << fwiw, I have never been good at keeping up with email... I check it about as often as I check IRC, unless there is some specific urgent thing that has to come by email
22:05 dulapbot Logged on 2021-12-06 21:28:44 verisimilitude: I referred to the email conversations, adlai.
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