00:01 |
asciilifeform |
for completeness: if yer ~unable~ to emit a valid 'unlock' for yer handle's prev.msg, yer either a) impostor, and fuckyou b) somebody whose pestnet just merged with anuther where there's a second 'you'. in which case is right & proper that yer orig. net sees you as $speaker and the new folx as $speaker-2 c) yer a poor bastard who blew away his hdd. |
| |
↖ |
00:01 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 10:07:34 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076611 << on ea. of the merged nets, stations would see 'their' blue as the authentic one. |
00:01 |
asciilifeform |
(c) will drink bitter cup, of either switching handles or being 'bozo-2' to his l2+ 4evah |
00:02 |
asciilifeform |
(b) in principle need not do anyffing in particular |
00:03 |
asciilifeform |
(a) eats shit, as he's perma-distinguishable from the genuine article, except if he can cultivate a 'pet' sub-pestnet where he's the chokepoint b/w them & yours, and he's willing to impersonate $speaker erry day |
| |
↖ |
00:04 |
asciilifeform |
(the subterfuge collapses if the victims manage to receive a new, valid msg on the oldest chain) |
00:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 11:59:18 asciilifeform: to round off upstack thread -- dr.evil not only must fork, if he wants to forge, but must withhold all subsequent msgs from the original, or even folx who hear the victim only through him will discover the boojum |
00:05 |
asciilifeform |
... for l1 (i.e. peers), can ignore lock/unlock, or possibly emit brief warning if peer's msg broke chain ('hey, didja format yer hdd?') |
00:05 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion et al : afaik ^ that's the whole thing. |
00:10 |
asciilifeform |
^ ~all of this reduces to asciilifeform's algo from september , where (imho wrongly) declared it to be a dud |
00:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-09-13 15:10:22 asciilifeform: either that, or -- from asciilifeform's chalkboard -- erry message includes 2 additional 256bit fields . one is H256(R) where R is a rng turd. the other is the R from previous. |
00:10 |
asciilifeform |
currently thinking it's the Right Thing. |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
observe that, while dr.evil can forge historic msgs from $speaker, all it takes to fuck him is for 1 station on his net to discover 1 older msg. from $speaker (and be convinced that it in fact is older. conceivably he could 'plato's cave' an entire bogus history of the known universe, and fool ~somebody~) |
00:16 |
asciilifeform |
dr.evil can set up his faux chain to seem 'oldest' to a new peer who relies 100% on his station for log catchup (via getdata). but if sees the genuine article (via sumbody else) 1st -- then no dice. |
00:16 |
asciilifeform |
this is similar to the 'trb in cave' problem. |
| |
↖ |
00:17 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. currently someone ~could~ in principle feed you an alt-2009...2022 set of blox. (is harder, on acct of pow, but not impossible) |
00:18 |
asciilifeform |
in the proposed pest, naturally you dun have pow. all you have is yer wot, and yer trusting its logs not to be a 'cave' , yes. |
00:22 |
asciilifeform |
... all this w/ no long-term keys and no bignums. the only seekrits yer storing are your peer keys, 1 'S' for yer last broadcast, and 1 'S' per direct peer (for direct msgs.) |
00:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-24 12:07:18 asciilifeform: on top of which, asciilifeform ~likes~ that there aint long-term keys in pest. pubkey crypto oughta be manually operated, i.e. consciously triggered at appropriate occasions, rather than sumthing a rando can cause you to do when he pleases |
00:25 |
asciilifeform |
if you blow away yer station's hdd, you naturally will need to pgpgram yer peers & rekey. will lose yer 'S's, but 1) this won't affect yer direct peerings, and you'll need to poke'em anyway 2) if you give a strong fuck re what l2+ sees yer handle as, you make a new one. |
| |
↖ |
00:25 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl. |
| |
~ 46 minutes ~ |
01:11 |
scoopbot |
New post on whaack: The Possible Outcomes of Segwit |
01:19 |
whaack |
PeterL: Small nit, maybe scoopbot should say "New article by _" instead of "New post on _" |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
01:35 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: btw your arithmetic-puzzler doesn't seem to rng |
| |
↖ |
01:35 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: ( asciilifeform posted 2 comments, both had same puzzler ) |
01:36 |
vex |
you could just change your hearder to whaack's super cool blog |
01:40 |
vex |
actually, i'm going to use that, with all the 1992 colours |
01:41 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: 1 'spoiler' -- a harden-segshit hardfork is factually equiv. to 'bch', and bombable via same algo. |
01:41 |
asciilifeform |
hence wainot happened yet, imho obv. |
01:43 |
asciilifeform |
hence wai asciilifeform quite convinced that segshitism would catch fire satisfyingly if the right 'thermite' could be found, i.e. mine a pile of blox where segshitolade is claimed. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
01:43 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. if make it impossible to carry on the pretense of 'softness'. |
01:44 |
vex |
why not test it? |
01:44 |
asciilifeform |
vex: go, test |
01:45 |
vex |
i don't understand seg |
01:45 |
asciilifeform |
all you need is a coupla $mil wortha hashes |
01:46 |
vex |
test it on a fork with diff 1 |
01:48 |
vex |
or does one need to emulate other players? |
01:48 |
asciilifeform |
vex: it's a q re actual miners on the actual live chain, rather than the proggy. the only way to 'test' is to actually light that fire. |
01:49 |
asciilifeform |
it's rather similar to where e.fermi et al did not have a rigorous proof that 1st nuke wouldn't chain-fission planet3, atmosphere, ocean & all |
| |
↖ |
01:49 |
asciilifeform |
'needs test'. tested. |
01:51 |
asciilifeform |
( iirc the proof of it from 1st principles was finally derived in... 1990s. ) |
01:55 |
asciilifeform |
anyways to date miner scum learned on own skin what happens when you try & fuck w/ orig. protocol, and in the process 'write phree cheque' to all hodlers, incl. 'dinosaurs'. |
01:55 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker bch btc |
01:55 |
busybot |
Current BCH price in BTC: $0.007835 |
| |
↖ ↖ |
01:56 |
vex |
that was a fork right? |
01:56 |
* |
asciilifeform lulz at the apparent asymptotic neverending death of that thing |
01:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-11 08:07:42 busybot: Current BCH price in BTC: $0.0104 |
01:56 |
asciilifeform |
vex: the original 'pushed from erry tv and clothes iron' fork |
01:57 |
vex |
ahh. I almost remember, what was the "sell immediately"! price? do you remember |
01:57 |
asciilifeform |
anyways^2 miners won't be lighting any such fires on their own. the q of wathappens if one were to light one ~for'em~ can only be answr'd empirically. |
02:01 |
asciilifeform |
what you'd get is a moar or less exact replay of the bch warz. and yes conceivable that it'd somehow come out to 'megablox win' if all the folx who dumped bch have since contracted brainworm and luvvv megablox and pine for 1000GB hearnblox and fullbore paypalization |
| |
↖ |
02:02 |
asciilifeform |
but not likely. hence wai no one fired 1st shot of this war yet. |
02:02 |
vex |
the foundation prolly had a capital gains event when it swapped for bc |
02:02 |
asciilifeform |
and when dust lands in the piggy also!11 |
02:02 |
asciilifeform |
used to happen regularly |
02:03 |
asciilifeform |
(whatever happened to the 'dusters' ? not seen 1 in a while..) |
02:03 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
02:03 |
vex |
no dice |
02:04 |
vex |
cya |
02:04 |
signpost |
https://archive.fo/7f2AG << with this days after RU central bank said "omg ban!", ain't no fucking way putin doesn't have a nice fat hodl |
02:04 |
vex |
re retroactive tax law, I can totally see that happening. |
02:09 |
vex |
yes diggity... bag it up |
02:12 |
vex |
bingoboingo, power up the 808, we're redoing blackstreet |
02:12 |
* |
signpost incidentally just got a recent roland box that includes decent 808 emu |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
02:33 |
vex |
sweet |
02:40 |
vex |
anyone got an amiga? |
02:41 |
vex |
I'm imagining it ascending to ruski hardbass, then some pankkake style guitar thru a modtracker |
02:42 |
* |
signpost finds renoise a pretty good and faithful to old-school tracker. |
02:42 |
vex |
unfamiliar |
02:42 |
signpost |
I fart around with that now and again. |
02:46 |
vex |
ilet's make it a `10 min song that repeats erry 10 mins |
02:47 |
vex |
if we're withholding blocks, can even programme the outro |
02:50 |
vex |
china might ven wait to hear how it goes |
02:54 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076804 < yes, and as i mention in the article, if the miners are SPV mining again, then it's very possible a single block can set off a permanent fork |
02:54 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 01:43:14 asciilifeform: hence wai asciilifeform quite convinced that segshitism would catch fire satisfyingly if the right 'thermite' could be found, i.e. mine a pile of blox where segshitolade is claimed. |
03:02 |
signpost |
even fragging the network into those that are and aren't would be entertaining and expose weakness. |
03:08 |
vex |
I'n completely different. I hope mats doesn't move to wallstreet |
03:12 |
vex |
or do. if your work precludes telling me what's up; I'll be more than a little sad |
03:16 |
vex |
what are we buying lng tankers? |
03:18 |
vex |
binance sent me packing. here's your coin, now bye |
03:19 |
vex |
idk what i did |
03:22 |
vex |
prolly too little. |
03:28 |
vex |
oh wait. oh fuck |
03:28 |
vex |
yeah |
03:34 |
vex |
no passport |
03:44 |
vex |
they do have a buterin compatible chain tho |
03:45 |
vex |
non huffers oughta know that it's considered to be the most spammy |
03:46 |
vex |
imo |
03:51 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: ok I think I get the basic concept. under the previous design, intermediaries could block and impersonate. However, now with S, only the original user of a handle can prove they sent the previous message. Perhaps a listing of all the scenarios would help clarify things in the spec. |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
04:24 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJC9mrX4y-Q&list=PLBCF0cGXYeqyjYSPeXi4IWODrswGSvJ36&index=7 on repeat for a week |
04:29 |
vex |
cunt's last vidya includes hunter who dies of butt cancer |
04:31 |
vex |
better to go bodysurfing in huge me thinks |
04:33 |
vex |
wallet inspector. nope |
04:36 |
vex |
we could stick a camera in your butt for 0.001 longer life expectancy. yea nah |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
05:15 |
vex |
general practionon uoughta avoid butt sex |
05:15 |
vex |
I've had two phizers and a moderna chaser |
05:20 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87gWaABqGYs |
05:22 |
vex |
van morrison isn't synoymous with niel young |
05:22 |
vex |
can't fuck with van |
05:24 |
vex |
halfwits rejoice |
05:26 |
vex |
i left a pet on the roadf somewhere preferented niel |
05:32 |
vex |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UUWkr4FUlo |
05:39 |
vex |
badman |
| |
~ 2 hours ~ |
07:40 |
jonsykkel |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076775 << if net1 sees guy1 as "speaker" and guy2 as "speaker-2", and net2 sees guy1 as "speaker-2" and guy2 as "speaker" - how to address these ppl in messages? "hey speaker-2 wats up" << will appear to diff subnets that u are addressing diff guys |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
07:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 19:01:12 asciilifeform: for completeness: if yer ~unable~ to emit a valid 'unlock' for yer handle's prev.msg, yer either a) impostor, and fuckyou b) somebody whose pestnet just merged with anuther where there's a second 'you'. in which case is right & proper that yer orig. net sees you as $speaker and the new folx as $speaker-2 c) yer a poor bastard who blew away |
07:40 |
jonsykkel |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076794 << on impl. side u could hav S-buffer where keep 100 next S values so if hdd crash and last backup was 70 S's ago, doesnt matter |
| |
↖ |
07:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 19:25:12 asciilifeform: if you blow away yer station's hdd, you naturally will need to pgpgram yer peers & rekey. will lose yer 'S's, but 1) this won't affect yer direct peerings, and you'll need to poke'em anyway 2) if you give a strong fuck re what l2+ sees yer handle as, you make a new one. |
| |
~ 5 hours 43 minutes ~ |
13:24 |
PeterL |
asciilifeform: should there be a "rename" command to change a peer's name? |
| |
↖ |
13:28 |
PeterL |
!e view-height |
13:28 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 720601 |
13:28 |
trbexplorer |
mins_since_last_block: 3 |
13:37 |
PeterL |
!s version |
13:37 |
scoopbot |
I am 'Scoopbot' version 720601. |
13:40 |
PeterL |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076797 << it's grabbing the name of the blog from the RSS feed, not the author |
| |
↖ |
13:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 20:19:51 whaack: PeterL: Small nit, maybe scoopbot should say "New article by _" instead of "New post on _" |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
14:05 |
shinohai |
In hardware bitcoin wallet rekt: https://archive.is/9iBY3 |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
14:31 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076863 << afaik listed all the combos in thrd. lemme know if missed any. |
| |
↖ |
14:31 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 22:51:49 thimbronion: asciilifeform: ok I think I get the basic concept. under the previous design, intermediaries could block and impersonate. However, now with S, only the original user of a handle can prove they sent the previous message. Perhaps a listing of all the scenarios would help clarify things in the spec. |
14:31 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 18:57:58 asciilifeform: if yer able to emit a valid 'unlock' for $message, this demonstrates either a) yer the 1 who sent $message , or b) yer dr.evil, gambling on being a permanent bottleneck b/w 2 sub-pestnets, and forging a e.g. 'asciilifeform: you all eat bugs, fuckoff' |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076878 << this is already a headache w/ the [] relayers notation, and will prolly require patching clients. the separate headache is the pov variants. prolly oughta identify all forked l2+ people as e.g. bozo-DEADBEEF w/ the turd identifying (remains to be seen how) the 1st msg of that fork |
14:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 02:40:39 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076775 << if net1 sees guy1 as "speaker" and guy2 as "speaker-2", and net2 sees guy1 as "speaker-2" and guy2 as "speaker" - how to address these ppl in messages? "hey speaker-2 wats up" << will appear to diff subnets that u are addressing diff guys |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076880 << could, tho this has the obv. opsec implications |
14:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 02:40:52 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076794 << on impl. side u could hav S-buffer where keep 100 next S values so if hdd crash and last backup was 70 S's ago, doesnt matter |
14:37 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076882 << already in spec: 'AKA' / 'UNAKA' |
14:37 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 08:24:23 PeterL: asciilifeform: should there be a "rename" command to change a peer's name? |
14:38 |
PeterL |
does that work if you want to peer with two people who both have the same handle though? |
14:38 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076890 << lulzy reich shithole indeed |
14:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 09:05:25 shinohai: In hardware bitcoin wallet rekt: https://archive.is/9iBY3 |
14:38 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: prohibited by spec |
14:38 |
punkman |
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/linux-system-service-bug-gives-root-on-all-major-distros-exploit-released/ |
14:39 |
PeterL |
I'm thinking of the situation where two nets come together, both have a guy named "bob", can one pick a different name without having to re-peer with everybody? |
| |
↖ |
14:39 |
punkman |
"CVE-2021-4034 has been named PwnKit and its origin has been tracked to the initial commit of pkexec, more than 12 years ago, meaning that all Polkit versions are affected." |
14:39 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: runmoar poetteringware! |
14:39 |
punkman |
decade-old bug, nice |
14:39 |
punkman |
I mean "bug" |
14:40 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: see also. |
14:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-29 15:03:51 asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform's /etc/portage/package.mask/systemd , for reference. |
14:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-29 15:04:35 asciilifeform: sys-auth/polkit |
14:41 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: bob's l1 peers will see 'bob'; his l2+ will see two suffixed bobs as soon as they first collide and henceforth |
14:42 |
asciilifeform |
his l1 will address him as 'bob', which may be annoying to l2+ but which bob is addressed will usually be clear from log context from either pov. |
14:44 |
PeterL |
but say I want to peer with both bobs, how is that handled? |
| |
↖ ↖ |
14:45 |
asciilifeform |
AKA |
14:47 |
asciilifeform |
ultimately if pestnets merge, someone will have to be encouraged to renick. |
14:47 |
asciilifeform |
otherwise cacophony. |
14:47 |
PeterL |
but what I am looking for is a way to renick without having to rebuild your whole peer network |
14:48 |
asciilifeform |
AKA. |
14:52 |
asciilifeform |
'hey peerz, starting tuesday i'ma call meself 'bobert', plox to AKA bob bobert' pgpsigned, bob |
14:53 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. doesn't req. rekeying w/ peers |
14:54 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl |
14:55 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076888 << ahh ok |
14:55 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 13:40:08 PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076797 << it's grabbing the name of the blog from the RSS feed, not the author |
14:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-26 20:19:51 whaack: PeterL: Small nit, maybe scoopbot should say "New article by _" instead of "New post on _" |
14:56 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076798 << have you found that this is necessary in the field? it does not rng, haven't had any problems yet |
| |
↖ |
14:56 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 01:35:38 asciilifeform: whaack: btw your arithmetic-puzzler doesn't seem to rng |
14:57 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: ithink 1 of asciilifeform comments is stuck in yer spam queue |
15:00 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: it was, ty. |
15:00 |
whaack |
not sure how you managed to lose auto-approve though, probably cuz of links |
15:07 |
scoopbot |
New article on btcinfo: Adventures in pest testnet - connecting an Android device |
15:12 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076927 << admittedly not tried w/out rng |
15:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 09:56:10 whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076798 << have you found that this is necessary in the field? it does not rng, haven't had any problems yet |
15:24 |
PeterL |
whaack: does ^ this wording for scoopbot look better? |
15:33 |
shinohai |
tyvm PeterL |
15:45 |
PeterL |
I was thinking of making it "New article posted on ___:", but I thought this was a little cleaner? |
15:50 |
shinohai |
yeah the latter is superfluous methinks |
| |
~ 28 minutes ~ |
16:19 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076891 << the 1 aspect did not discuss, but worth mentioning, is that 'evil' l1 peers can of course mutate yer messages. but this imho is obv. and such a betrayal will not stay seekrit for long. |
16:19 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 09:31:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076863 << afaik listed all the combos in thrd. lemme know if missed any. |
16:26 |
whaack |
PeterL: LGTM |
| |
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~ |
17:28 |
whaack |
anyone know of a heathen block explorer that contains an updated list of orphan blocks it sees? |
17:29 |
whaack |
!e view-height |
17:29 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 720626 |
17:29 |
trbexplorer |
mins_since_last_block: 2 |
17:42 |
shinohai |
https://bitcoinchain.com/block_explorer/orphaned |
17:43 |
shinohai |
looks old though |
| |
~ 44 minutes ~ |
18:27 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion, jonsykkel : asciilifeform had a thought : possibly the inclusion of 'speaker' field to start with was a mistake. instead, internally station oughta distinguish l2+ msgs by ~chain~, internally, and 'speaker' instead would be a 'call me x' ~broadcast message type~. |
| |
↖ |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
would solve e.g. this, supposing one were willing to have the machine substitute a chain id munge in place of the speaker yer addressing, and parse it back out on the receiving end |
| |
↖ |
18:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 02:40:39 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076775 << if net1 sees guy1 as "speaker" and guy2 as "speaker-2", and net2 sees guy1 as "speaker-2" and guy2 as "speaker" - how to address these ppl in messages? "hey speaker-2 wats up" << will appear to diff subnets that u are addressing diff guys |
18:30 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. instead of the 32 bytes of 'speaker', you have the selfchain of the msg yer addressing (or a zero, if n/a) |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
possibly not worth the bother, come to think of it. but a possible variant. |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
might yield simpler phork-to/from-suffixed-speaker designation logic, tho. |
18:33 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. 1 advantage would be not having to rewalk log to mark bogosity (or its opposite) |
18:34 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. all chains recorded as they are, but what to do w/ a 'call me x' would depend on the station's pov re the offered handle. (if corresponds to l1 peer -- accept uncritically; if l2+ -- '1st come, 1st serve') |
18:36 |
asciilifeform |
transmitting 'speaker' in erry msg is a rather massive waste imho, given that they're already selfchained and you can walk back |
18:36 |
asciilifeform |
and makes for all kindsa otherwise unnecessary moving parts in the protocol |
18:38 |
* |
asciilifeform had orthogonal but also pertinent thought: 'no orphan rebroadcast', i.e. if you gimme a msg, i haven't the prev. for it, i 'getdata', and you dun answr within interval -- yours goes to devnull |
18:39 |
asciilifeform |
and ~recursively~ so. |
18:39 |
asciilifeform |
^ concerns strictly broadcasts, that is |
18:41 |
asciilifeform |
imposing the 'i am...' msg might have anuther win -- the receiver could ~reply~ to it with e.g. 'yes you can be bob on my pestnet' or alternatively 'i've a bob already'. |
18:42 |
asciilifeform |
( i.e. 'i've a chain that is already bobbed' ) |
18:43 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl |
18:50 |
asciilifeform |
btw if the 32bytes formerly 'speaker' instead made to point to one's 'birth' (i.e. 1st 'i am' broadcast), makes rather simple to determine who was 1st claimant of $handle on given pestnet. |
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18:50 |
asciilifeform |
(point to i.e. selfchainwise) |
18:56 |
asciilifeform |
... also makes for simple handle switchouts ('i was bob (or possibly bob-N to you) $chain to prev.iam, nao am bobart' |
18:58 |
asciilifeform |
then you can switch handles while maintaining chain continuity (if you want to) from l2+'s pov. |
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~ 27 minutes ~ |
19:26 |
whaack |
shinohai: i linked that website before, the server ran out of storage and is no longer updating |
19:26 |
shinohai |
:( |
19:27 |
whaack |
shinohai: but it looks like orphans are spaced out to about 1 per month |
19:28 |
whaack |
s/orphan/childless for this whole thread |
19:29 |
whaack |
childless isn't even the right term, unless the fork is only 1 chain long |
19:29 |
whaack |
maybe s/orphan/extinct |
19:30 |
whaack |
unless the fork is only 1 block* long |
19:30 |
shinohai |
extinct *does* have a nice ring to it |
19:38 |
whaack |
jfw used the term loser block, works as well |
19:49 |
signpost |
repudiable could be used for blocks which have no children and have a competitor with no children, and repudiated when they are left behind. |
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19:49 |
signpost |
just throwing that out there, loser's pretty descriptive too for latter. |
19:53 |
whaack |
in any case, all better than orphan |
19:53 |
asciilifeform |
see also tho. |
19:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-21 13:13:24 asciilifeform: whaack: more immediately, cuz we haven't any notion what the longest possible reorg is |
19:54 |
asciilifeform |
fwiw shitoshi also had nfi what longest practical reorg could be. hence wai stored ~all~ recv'd blox 4evah |
19:55 |
asciilifeform |
(whether ~could~ reorg over9000 blox, in the actual proggy as it stands, no one knows. but they sit there, fossilized, in the db.) |
19:57 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: given our emperical evidence so far i think it's fair to call loser/repudiated blocks extinct blocks, and should we learn that in practice losers can be revived, then that will be a resurrection |
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19:59 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: aha. but important to remember that it's an empirical result. |
19:59 |
asciilifeform |
( the well-known tradition is 'declared dead after 6' but there's no fundamental physical basis for it ) |
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20:00 |
asciilifeform |
and iirc whaack turned up >6 long reorgs in early history. |
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20:07 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: i mentioned that i remember a >6 long reorg but not something i verified for myself in any wya |
20:07 |
whaack |
way |