00:03 |
vex |
if i'm not mistaken, an interesting finding from this is that meth miners quietly snake 1inch trades. makes me wonder if it'd be possible to serve up a shit sandwich that gets tastier with every bite |
00:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-16 05:47:14 mats: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.05511.pdf ethereum shenanigans |
| |
~ 34 minutes ~ |
00:38 |
vex |
I hope you're bolting that big `ol rack down asciilifeform. earthquakes happen. she'll be heavy fully loaded |
00:43 |
asciilifeform |
vex: oblig. |
00:44 |
vex |
lol |
00:58 |
vex |
I read Mr taleb did decry bc on twitter re recent cheapser |
01:02 |
vex |
$ticker btc usd |
01:02 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $36133.72 |
01:10 |
vex |
whaack, can we haz getdifficulty? might be nice for future archae if they only have da logs |
01:18 |
whaack |
!e view-block 31337 |
01:18 |
trbexplorer |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Lnx4 1 of 1 |
01:18 |
whaack |
vex: see "target" |
01:19 |
vex |
aha |
01:19 |
whaack |
but i agree for archives it may be nice to have the results pasted to something more permanent |
01:20 |
whaack |
however it is data in the blockchain so arguably the most permanent storage around |
01:20 |
whaack |
arguably already saved to* |
01:20 |
vex |
ofc |
01:28 |
vex |
noone mines anymore anyway |
01:32 |
whaack |
well that's certainly not true |
01:32 |
vex |
ofc not |
01:33 |
vex |
just being dramatic |
01:33 |
* |
vex wonders the blockheight when pankakke laid on the tracks |
| |
↖ |
01:40 |
vex |
Imagine hitting that block, wait; lemme call alanis morriset! |
| |
~ 52 minutes ~ |
02:32 |
vex |
parisian drew shitty cards, the wetware went into a pain loop |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
03:03 |
mats |
shut up already |
| |
↖ |
03:06 |
vex |
I really want to on your recommendation, but I've got questions |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
03:22 |
vex |
0H6re3PCP3E |
| |
↖ |
03:23 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-24#1075984 << somewhere in the 66e4's, loox like |
03:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-24 20:33:51 vex: wonders the blockheight when pankakke laid on the tracks |
03:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-01-14 18:18:32 asciilifeform: meanwhile, lol pankkake ! |
03:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-01-14 10:23:29 watchglass: 71.114.46.209:8333 : (pool-71-114-46-209.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.095s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=665876 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
03:24 |
asciilifeform |
you can push that search button as well as asciilifeform can , vex |
03:27 |
asciilifeform |
or i suppose if want moar precision, he supposedly performed pankkuku on dec. 9 of '20, so there'd be closer. |
03:27 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-10 15:54:33 watchglass: 71.114.46.209:8333 : (pool-71-114-46-209.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.047s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=660804 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
03:30 |
asciilifeform |
while e.g. mp bit it, supposedly, in the 688s. |
03:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-24 10:32:01 watchglass: 108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=688688 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
03:32 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-24#1075989 << cat on kbd or wat |
03:32 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-24 22:23:08 vex: 0H6re3PCP3E |
03:32 |
vex |
its a utube link |
03:32 |
asciilifeform |
( cat knows how to shift? ) |
03:32 |
asciilifeform |
a |
03:33 |
vex |
cat only brings dead things |
03:33 |
asciilifeform |
speakin' of which, a good 80% of vex's youtubes dun even load in usa |
03:33 |
vex |
glhf |
03:36 |
vex |
current pet actualyy will rip up an mp style asian house gecko. dunno how it gets `em |
| |
↖ |
03:37 |
asciilifeform |
mouse w/ scales. |
03:38 |
vex |
ceilingcat.jpeg |
03:39 |
asciilifeform |
ceiling cat watches you waste kW/hrs, vex, lol |
03:39 |
* |
asciilifeform will bbl. |
03:46 |
whaack |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-24#1075987 << word. vex, you've been following along enough to know that *someone* is going to have to peer for you to be able for you to talk in pestnet, right? atm i'm not going to risk losing my peers who may care about their snr |
03:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-24 22:03:15 mats: shut up already |
03:47 |
whaack |
although idk how i would even exchange keys with you i don't have your key and don't see one ieven in wot.deedbot.org |
03:48 |
whaack |
!e view-height |
03:48 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 720273 |
03:48 |
trbexplorer |
mins_since_last_block: 19 |
03:51 |
vex |
over 10 |
03:55 |
whaack |
you were right, no one is mining! |
03:55 |
whaack |
!e view-height |
03:55 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 720275 |
03:55 |
trbexplorer |
mins_since_last_block: 4 |
03:55 |
whaack |
ah, nvm |
| |
~ 27 minutes ~ |
04:23 |
vex |
0LqBw6FNNng always |
04:27 |
vex |
durable goods. |
04:28 |
vex |
2AHvZWojSc heya ny |
04:29 |
asciilifeform |
!!key vex |
04:29 |
deedbot |
Not registered. |
04:29 |
asciilifeform |
tsk. |
| |
~ 24 minutes ~ |
04:53 |
whaack |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2013-09-13#307908 over 8 years and still no key, holy fuck |
04:53 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2013-09-13 Vexual: anyone on channel? |
04:54 |
whaack |
vex confirmed spook |
05:03 |
whaack |
in good news, i've added some light testing to the block explorer, and it has caught some minor bugs |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
05:19 |
whaack |
ohhh and in bad/good idk news, i have caught a big bug... |
05:22 |
whaack |
!e view-tx 6f7cf9580f1c2dfb3c4d5d043cdbb128c640e3f20161245aa7372e9666168516 |
05:22 |
trbexplorer |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ndac 1 of 1 |
05:24 |
whaack |
^ notice how for this tx we're somehow showing a tx with a different tx_hash then the one we searched for o.o |
05:26 |
* |
whaack prays he does not have a corrupt db |
| |
~ 56 minutes ~ |
06:22 |
whaack |
!e view-tx 728 1 |
06:22 |
trbexplorer |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=NViv 1 of 1 |
06:22 |
whaack |
!e view-tx 6f7cf9580f1c2dfb3c4d5d043cdbb128c640e3f20161245aa7372e9666168516 |
06:22 |
trbexplorer |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YWay 1 of 1 |
06:23 |
whaack |
bug fixed, there was no db corruption issue, it was caused by some mixup with the scope of a variable |
| |
~ 42 minutes ~ |
07:06 |
mats |
https://archive.is/2021.11.11-144057/https://www.wsj.com/articles/binance-became-the-biggest-cryptocurrency-exchange-without-licenses-or-headquarters-thats-coming-to-an-end-11636640029 |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| |
~ 6 hours 19 minutes ~ |
13:25 |
asciilifeform |
mats: november?? |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
13:42 |
PeterL |
saw this, I thought vex was using "pet" the way asciilifeform does, was wondering what kind of crazy bitch have you hooked up with that likes tearing up lizzards? |
13:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-24 22:37:10 vex: current pet actualyy will rip up an mp style asian house gecko. dunno how it gets `em |
| |
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~ |
14:52 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
14:53 |
* |
asciilifeform has both kinds |
14:55 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076044 << '‘We need to be regulated,’ the CEO says.' >> lol |
14:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 02:06:38 mats: https://archive.is/2021.11.11-144057/https://www.wsj.com/articles/binance-became-the-biggest-cryptocurrency-exchange-without-licenses-or-headquarters-thats-coming-to-an-end-11636640029 |
14:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-19 13:07:50 mats: binance doesn't subordinate to any sovereign |
| |
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~ |
16:09 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
16:09 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $36600.92 |
16:09 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
16:09 |
watchglass |
Polling 14 nodes... |
16:09 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.032s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.172s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.103s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=720349 (Operator: whaack) |
16:09 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.262s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 |
16:09 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:10 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.038s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 |
16:10 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! |
16:11 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
| |
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~ |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: asciilifeform noticed that yer logger www nao over9000x faster. didja find the magick postgres knob or wat ? |
17:15 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i've also noticed that it seems faster but i couldn't tell you what i did |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
lolk |
17:15 |
billymg |
"all chans" searches still take some time |
17:15 |
billymg |
but yeah, definitely faster |
17:18 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: oh, heh, crawler lost its pg connection (doesn't have the auto-reconnect feature yet), probably what freed up the resources for the logger http://bitdash.io/ |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
lol! |
17:18 |
* |
asciilifeform suspected |
17:23 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: any updates on the bigger boxes yet? |
17:24 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: oh yes : 'customer a' renewed (was out to sea, lol.) found potential src for missing ram for baking moar dulaps, tho |
17:24 |
asciilifeform |
can accomodate +1 dulap, after that will need the 'super' rack from upstream host |
17:26 |
billymg |
how much ram are you short? i remember in my request i spec'd it rather high, i'd be open to starting a subscription with a lower amount and adjusting upwards as you receive the extra sticks |
17:30 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: 128G. (ecc). tricky to get hold of working set tho, asciilifeform ended up with several duds |
17:33 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i'm definitely fine with getting this thing going without the extra 128G, it would still be a major upgrade from the RK |
| |
↖ |
17:34 |
billymg |
if that's an option |
17:34 |
mats |
asciilifeform: they 'want' it, but if you recall the more recent malta piece, would rather have their freedom |
17:35 |
mats |
piece is more useful for info on how massive it is |
17:35 |
whaack |
!e view-height |
17:35 |
trbexplorer |
block_height: 720357 |
17:35 |
trbexplorer |
mins_since_last_block: 3 |
17:35 |
mats |
like doing 2.7tn usd in spot and derivatives trading volume in a single month |
17:36 |
mats |
or being bigger than hkex, nyse, and lse combined |
17:38 |
mats |
mpex could have been this, it had the lead and nearly the right ideas |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
mats: could equally say 'mtgox could've been this' |
18:02 |
mats |
thats not nice |
18:03 |
mats |
my initial arg was that cz/binance is a sovereign, and i think that's borne out of the facts |
| |
↖ |
18:05 |
mats |
you might not like them because they're an exchange, but at least someone in bitcoin does what they want, free of other sovereign encumbrances |
18:08 |
asciilifeform |
mats: how's this square w/ 'does what they want' ? they dunwork in usa cuz dun like letter 'u', or wat |
18:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-19 13:08:19 asciilifeform: 'Binance is unable to provide services to U.S. users. Binance.US (BAM Trading Services) is a US-regulated cryptocurrency trading platform. In approved states, U.S. customers can use Binance.US to buy and sell over 50 cryptocurrencies with low fees.' |
18:09 |
mats |
if you read through the entire piece, you'll see that they've firewalled off the us biz from everything else |
18:09 |
mats |
they like the us market, because there's money in it, but not at the price of submission to usg |
18:10 |
asciilifeform |
as asciilifeform understands the word, an actual sovereign trades with whoever it likes |
18:10 |
mats |
and as discussed before, plenty of americans do trade on binance |
18:10 |
asciilifeform |
via neutral 3rd parties, if req'd (e.g. iran's petro market) |
18:10 |
mats |
using the binance coin, tether, or any number of alts |
18:11 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. 1st gotta buy shitcoin locally? why use a 2nd gox then at all ? |
18:12 |
mats |
because its bigger than the next four exchanges, with corresponding benefits |
18:12 |
mats |
...like highly liquid markets, with deep order books and tight spreads |
18:13 |
mats |
and a derivatives book that americans can't use |
18:13 |
asciilifeform |
a, for these |
18:13 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-05 19:59:44 asciilifeform: as a rule, they're entirely happy to buy promisecoin, so can 'leverage' and 'play'. |
18:13 |
mats |
the fees also start at 0.1% |
18:13 |
* |
asciilifeform not in target market |
18:13 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
18:15 |
mats |
its an exchange, ofc they trade for promisecoins |
18:15 |
mats |
you are so difficult |
18:20 |
* |
billymg is still waiting for another btc-e, i.e. no passport selfies required |
| |
~ 49 minutes ~ |
19:09 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: may be long wait. |
19:10 |
PeterL |
it's an open niche, who wants to be the brave soul who tries to fill it? |
19:11 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: imho is a niche which rightfully oughta be occupied by folx one knows in meatspace. |
19:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:07:52 asciilifeform: i.e. you go to yer l1 hawaladar. |
19:11 |
asciilifeform |
(any other way to organize it will devolve into plain goxism.) |
19:13 |
billymg |
PeterL: apparently a niche that even "sovereign binance" cannot fill, so dunno who greater than sovereign that could |
19:18 |
asciilifeform |
any approach to fiatola<->btc other than the wotronic -- invites the reich. |
19:18 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-17 19:39:26 asciilifeform: for instance, afaik 100% of 'illicit exchange man' arrests to date, were 'controlled buys' a la dope. i.e. intrinsically impossible in a solid wot context. |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
is half of why reich even tolerates goxes -- to put brakes on the development of proper wotronic trade. |
| |
↖ |
19:19 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-19 13:03:00 asciilifeform: the reason why various 2010s 'they'll ban goxes!' prognoses (incl. asciilifeform's) came to nuffin, is that turns out goxes are a very effective instrument of exchrate control, and therefore quite valuable to the reich. |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
so imho 'dream of a better gox' is very much wrong direction. |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
the best gox is no gox at all. |
19:22 |
asciilifeform |
seekers of 'star topology' ~create~ the reich, rather than the reverse. |
19:23 |
whaack |
the only important job in the 'gox' direction imo is a pure btc denominated web wallet for low value transactions, i.e. a place where blue collar new bitcoin users can save up until they are able to afford doing their own biz onchain |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
( once created, naturally, maintained, esp. as folx 'atrophy' and 'ohnoez, p2p trade is impossible, see, 'localbitcoin' died..) |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: a la signpost's, aha |
19:23 |
whaack |
exactly |
19:33 |
mats |
i guess there's no curing allergies to markets |
19:33 |
thimbronion |
you are all already kyc'd |
| |
↖ |
19:37 |
PeterL |
whaack: there is some benefit to having an interface between usd banks and bitcoin, and price discovery is also necessary |
19:43 |
whaack |
PeterL: If there was no bank<->btc interface you would be inundated with people looking to work directly for your coin. And the price discovery would happen way faster as 10s / 100s of thousands individuals would be weighing in what they believed would be a fair work<->btc exchange and item<->btc exchange. |
| |
↖ |
19:43 |
mats |
that's just not the world we live in |
19:44 |
mats |
you work with the mud and sticks you have, not the ones you wish you had |
19:44 |
PeterL |
or you would just have less people using btc |
19:44 |
mats |
hawala doesn't scale, and lets not do the medieval commerce thread again, thats exhausting |
19:46 |
mats |
being able to ignore these realities is a privilege and not at all conducive to economy |
19:46 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076084 << asciilifeform, just so this doesn't get lost. let me know if that's an option and how long it would take to get up and running |
| |
↖ |
19:46 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 17:33:46 billymg: asciilifeform: i'm definitely fine with getting this thing going without the extra 128G, it would still be a major upgrade from the RK |
19:46 |
whaack |
there's a reason the reich sets up goxes and it's not for the benefit of btc |
19:47 |
thimbronion |
Either btc is fungible or it's not |
19:48 |
mats |
you've removed agency from the discussion and that's not generous |
19:48 |
thimbronion |
I say it's fungible |
19:48 |
thimbronion |
If it's fungible it doesn't matter if you got it from a gox |
19:49 |
whaack |
^ that's absolutely the case. there may be a risk at the moment of buying from the gox but it doesn't currently hurt the value of your coin. |
19:50 |
whaack |
mats: i don't understand what you're saying re removing agency from the discussion |
19:51 |
mats |
not every exchange is being operated by a representative of a government |
19:52 |
mats |
they don't "set up" exchanges, they are built by people, with their own agency, who make individual choices |
19:52 |
mats |
and not all of those people readily submit to 200 different sovereigns |
19:55 |
billymg |
makes no difference to me if binance is indeed sovereign but still requires all the same fiat paperwork in order to create an account |
19:56 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076144 << oughta work, seems that i've 128G of working stix, will try to fit it into coming weekend |
19:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 14:46:18 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076084 << asciilifeform, just so this doesn't get lost. let me know if that's an option and how long it would take to get up and running |
19:56 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: nice! |
19:56 |
mats |
for a very long time, all they asked for was an email, and max daily withdrawals were 2btc |
19:56 |
thimbronion |
billymg: concretely what is the problem with filling out kyc info? |
19:57 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076136 << 'kyc' is a reich 'limba de lemn', it aint about ~you~ 'knowing yer customer', but rather about gestapo also in real time knowing. |
19:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 14:33:57 thimbronion: you are all already kyc'd |
19:57 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: elementarily |
19:58 |
mats |
you cannot decentralise all the things |
19:58 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076138 << aaha |
19:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 14:43:28 whaack: PeterL: If there was no bank<->btc interface you would be inundated with people looking to work directly for your coin. And the price discovery would happen way faster as 10s / 100s of thousands individuals would be weighing in what they believed would be a fair work<->btc exchange and item<->btc exchange. |
19:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-14 20:00:53 asciilifeform: if over9000 folx do this, before long the 'half' becomes 'full' duplex. |
19:58 |
mats |
one of the worst memes of bitcoin |
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19:58 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: is bitcoin fungible? |
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19:58 |
asciilifeform |
mats: who/what do you rely on to tell you what can and what cannot be decentralized ? |
19:58 |
mats |
markets require centralisation, its tautological |
19:59 |
asciilifeform |
mats: ~how much~ centralization, tho. i.e. need 'town market', or whatever conventional place for buyers & sellers to run into 1 anuther. but does it follow that also 'need' walmart or univermag to control all commerce ? |
20:00 |
mats |
neither walmart nor binance controls all commerce |
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20:00 |
billymg |
thimbronion: good question, in some ways i see your point that we're all "already kyc'd". part of it is just that i've never had to do the "selfie holding passport" thing (goxes back in '14 didn't require it) |
20:00 |
mats |
they're just very big and there's economies of scale that follow |
20:00 |
billymg |
goxes back then also weren't diligently generating 1099s for all of your transactions |
20:00 |
mats |
we can in principle agree that large markets have material benefits, which you may not personally avail yourself of |
20:01 |
mats |
since you don't trade, you just buy, which is nice for you |
20:01 |
mats |
there's a whole rest of the economy out there with different needs |
20:01 |
thimbronion |
billymg: they don't do 1099s of your transactions now |
20:01 |
billymg |
mats: i think big markets are great, i just don't like that "governments" have their hooks in them in the form of regulations |
20:01 |
billymg |
mats: why not let market self regulate? |
20:02 |
mats |
sure, i get it |
20:02 |
mats |
i feel like i've been around long enough to have earned the benefit of the doubt |
20:02 |
mats |
but every game has rules |
20:02 |
mats |
we play by them until they change, or there's an end-run |
20:03 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076170 << seems to be a 'religious' q. some folx strongly convinced that there are 'dirty' coins. ( fwiw asciilifeform not practitioner of this religion , from his pov the only 'dirty' coins are ones you bought at a reich gox where entered into yer dossier; and they're 'dirty' only vis-a-vis ~you |
20:03 |
asciilifeform |
~ ) |
20:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 14:58:22 thimbronion: asciilifeform: is bitcoin fungible? |
20:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-13 14:15:15 asciilifeform: PeterL: observe that asciilifeform is 100% happy to accept coinz for rack service today, and doesn't particularly care where $customer got'em |
20:03 |
billymg |
thimbronion: ah, i assumed pretty much every trade could potentially result in "profit", e.g. if you trade 1 btc for a million doge coin, maybe there was "capital gains" on that, and so they generate the 1099 |
20:03 |
whaack |
not every exchange is being operated by a representative of a government << I beg to disagree. Your poster child example of sovereign exchange has their CEO stating "we need regulation". The USG does not allow ANY "money transmitter" to work within the fiat banking system unless it has aligned operatives inside the system. This predates bitcoin and was one of the motives for bitcoin's creation. |
20:03 |
whaack |
You and I may have different definitions of what is a USG operative, but I consider anyone who submits to the culture of the politic USG pays taxes, goes and votes, and in general hallucinates that some ppl in washington have more rights than others are all part of the USG. They may be, and very likely are, wholly unconscious of their alignment, I'm sure the employees of Coinbase say and believe |
20:03 |
whaack |
they work at a private company. |
20:04 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
20:06 |
billymg |
whaack: well said |
20:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076174 << wasn't the allegation. however reich ~does~ control all Official electric usd motion -- buy x kg of fertilizer at 1 shop, x litres of diesel at filling station, get visit from gestapo. sell a car at dealership, didn't report the 'income' -- expect tax visit. etc |
20:06 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 15:00:29 mats: neither walmart nor binance controls all commerce |
20:06 |
mats |
for an operative, they put up an awful fight to regulators |
20:07 |
mats |
i guess there's no evidence that can possibly convince |
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20:07 |
asciilifeform |
convince of what? |
20:08 |
mats |
quitting malta because of eu regulation means they might possibly not be gestapo |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076169 << imho not only not 'worst', but factually the only real purpose to bothering with the thing at all. i.e. to slowly get the reich outta folxs' hair, cutting 1 small tentacle at a time. |
20:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 14:58:21 mats: one of the worst memes of bitcoin |
20:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-15 12:03:03 asciilifeform: imho ~whole point of bothering with the extremely gnarly rube goldberg apparatus is to piss on the reich in various ways. |
20:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable. |
20:10 |
mats |
what if agreeing to submit, and not really, meant that partisan exchange operators could take money from clients of the reich, while resisting in other quarters through i.e. legal shenanigans? until v-day? |
20:10 |
mats |
isn't there an asymmetry to that? |
20:11 |
asciilifeform |
mats: seemingly orthogonal q, but gotta ask: per your pov, are e.g. cocaine smugglers 'resisting the reich' ? or, are they part of it ? (could their biz model w/out it?) |
20:12 |
asciilifeform |
*exist w/out |
20:12 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: what is the concern re: paying taxes on bitcoin profits? |
20:12 |
mats |
they could not do without it, they need airplanes, airplane registration, fuel, hangars, bank accounts, corporate registration, etc |
20:12 |
mats |
this involves fiat |
20:12 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: this, for instance. i.e. taxation of the 'gain' amounts to simple slow confiscation imho |
20:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-19 12:24:15 asciilifeform: 1. ... it'll be taxed (i.e. some uknown, potentially up to 100%, of its value confiscated by busybodies taxing imaginary 'gain', which in actuality consists strictly of ~their~ toiletpaper's debasement) |
20:13 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: have you heard of lifo accounting? |
20:13 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: elaborate ? |
20:13 |
mats |
working with the reich doesn't imply doing so in good faith |
20:14 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lifo.asp |
20:14 |
asciilifeform |
mats: reich worx entirely fine largely using human material that aint working 'in good faith'. good % even thinks 'resisting!' |
20:14 |
mats |
embrace and extinguish |
20:14 |
mats |
bitcoin with the bear hug. |
20:14 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: maybe i'm thick, but not sure how pertains |
20:15 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: you claim you will have to pay cap gains taxes. How is this the case if you use lifo? |
20:16 |
asciilifeform |
( or how it gets you around 'gains' going into yer dossier automagically, but 'losses' having to be justified, potentially, ad infinitum, w/ no guarantee of 'legitimization' ) |
20:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-10 13:15:34 asciilifeform: when you get a lump of usd from an official (e.g. gox) org, they generate a 'this fella owes' event in usg record. ~loss~ (i.e. rebuying same coin) generates no similar automatic subtraction. |
20:16 |
mats |
the cap gains thresholds are kinda low for moneybags like asciilifeform |
20:16 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
20:17 |
mats |
long term cap gains kick in at 15% after the first 40k |
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20:18 |
asciilifeform |
reich tax system is specifically, quite deliberately built to maximally rape the people w/ sumthing to take, and w/ income deriving from work (rather than dividend drawing). this yes incl. asciilifeform , folx like famous joe stack, etc. |
20:19 |
thimbronion |
If you convert your monthly income to btc and spend whatever percent you normally spend to pay off your cc every month and use lifo, your cap gains will be minimal or nothing at all. |
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20:20 |
asciilifeform |
re cap gains taxation -- in inflationary hell, is simple theft. 'sold house? made 'profit'' 'now i want an equivalent house' 'sorry, yer 20% short nao, tax' |
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20:20 |
mats |
oh good, another 'woe is me, the oppressed middle upper income taxpayer' |
20:20 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076201 <<--- this is projection |
20:20 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 20:07:19 mats: i guess there's no evidence that can possibly convince |
20:20 |
mats |
there's plenty of handouts, you just won't take them |
20:21 |
asciilifeform |
lol mats, which 'handouts' ? |
20:21 |
mats |
mortgage interest expense deduction, rooftop solar subsidy, extended child tax credit, investment interest expense deduction |
20:21 |
thimbronion |
business expenses |
20:22 |
mats |
there's probably more but i can't think of them |
20:22 |
* |
asciilifeform deducts biz expenses. doesn't have a solartron yet; but that's a 1time thing, chicken change |
20:22 |
asciilifeform |
and yes if e.g. asciilifeform borrowed 10mil$, the interest deduction would add up to sumthing. (but why??!) |
20:23 |
mats |
more bitcorns |
20:23 |
asciilifeform |
imagine if there were a 'cost of heroin' deduction. would start shooting up..? |
20:23 |
mats |
oh right, i forgot, loans are haram |
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20:23 |
mats |
you are the actual worst |
20:24 |
* |
asciilifeform doesn't consider loans per se 'haram'. just normally bad idea. |
20:24 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: dying with the most debt is a win |
20:25 |
asciilifeform |
well if it's 'trump-style' infinitely-rollable debt, then a++ |
20:25 |
mats |
euros complain about americans not having wealth tax |
20:25 |
asciilifeform |
(rather than plebe 'collections took the car and dog' sort) |
20:25 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: there are buckets of cash being sent to everyone in the country dontjaknow? (not really sarcasm) |
20:25 |
mats |
famously, american billionaires are pilloried for being able to put up their equity as collateral, borrow for incredibly low rates, and basically 'hodl' until dead |
20:25 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: ikr? it almost covered asciilifeform's electric bill for 6mo! |
20:26 |
whaack |
haha |
20:26 |
mats |
musk can sell when he wants, not necessarily because he has a 0.1% annual wealth tax to pay |
20:27 |
mats |
but also alf! |
20:27 |
asciilifeform |
we have 'wealth tax' in usa. i.e. inflation. it simply only applies to plebes |
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20:27 |
asciilifeform |
the folx w/ rembrandt, dun have to 'pay 0.1% of rembrandt' quarterly |
20:28 |
mats |
yeah ok, the long suffering american taxpayer |
20:28 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: sure they do, they print themselves N and then pay their fair share of N/4 |
20:28 |
mats |
i'm just reminding you how good we have it, relatively |
20:30 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: lolyes |
20:30 |
asciilifeform |
mats: y'know, you might find yerself working for a living one day. even if think to be no chance of this. |
20:31 |
mats |
i actually start soon on some unspeakable wage slavery |
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20:31 |
mats |
after a short break |
20:32 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm mats , i thought you've 'made it' in machinations w/ leveraged goxisms etc for sumreason |
20:32 |
mats |
i'm too young to retire |
20:32 |
mats |
it was boring |
20:32 |
asciilifeform |
(and running on clean-burning btc a la thimbronion) |
20:33 |
mats |
did half of my bucket list and lost interest |
20:33 |
whaack |
"how good we have it" "unspeakable wage slavery" you get the log comedy medal today mat |
20:33 |
mats |
i'm not doing it because i need the money |
20:34 |
whaack |
if you don't need the money then why don't you do something interesting here |
20:34 |
* |
asciilifeform 's 'bucket list' includes things like 'bake sane cpu arch, prog lang, & os' so unlikely to suffer this 'illness' even if somehow escaped from wageschwitz |
20:34 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: iirc mats dun program ( ? ) |
20:34 |
mats |
i'm following along with the pest stuff, might write a small client |
20:35 |
thimbronion |
oddly the more btc you accumulate ultimattely the less of your income you will pay in tax |
20:35 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: per current tax regime, factual |
20:35 |
mats |
i don't program with regularity but i have in the past |
20:36 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. currently selling microscopic chunks of 'hodl' is taxed at 'long' rate, rather than 'wage' rate) |
20:36 |
asciilifeform |
mats: i recall you used to do reversisms |
20:36 |
whaack |
mats: how are your hands nowadays? |
20:36 |
whaack |
i should mention in logs my pain has gone from 5/10 back down to 1/10 |
20:37 |
whaack |
pretty much zero hinderance to my work right now, thank god |
20:37 |
asciilifeform |
happy to hear this, whaack . ( asciilifeform assumed 'cured' or near, given that whaack returned ) |
20:38 |
mats |
whaack: no improvement, but i have talon voice to help these days |
20:38 |
* |
asciilifeform often asked how he escapes wrist rot. answrs 'by typing very little, likely' |
20:38 |
mats |
so long as i avoid doing 30 consecutive mins of typing it stays at a dull roar |
20:39 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: from my investigation the brachial plexus gives genetic RNG on how the nerves are setup, so very possible you are lucky / mats and i are unlucky |
20:41 |
asciilifeform |
also possib |
20:41 |
whaack |
mats: i have no idea if what i did helped or if i'm even actually better vs. just having reduce symptoms, but i've been focusing on keeping an upright posture, taking collagen and magnesium supplements everyday with store-bought water, and doing exercise on the slackline |
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20:41 |
* |
asciilifeform has suffered symptoms resembling early stages of wrist rot in the past, tho, when actually had to key > coupla kB / d |
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20:41 |
mats |
i ignored it for a long time and probably made it worse |
20:42 |
whaack |
mats: have you tried the john sarno route? I mentioned in the logs before, it seems to have helped a lot of people |
20:42 |
mats |
bengay and ibuprofen are not actually helpful |
20:42 |
mats |
no, ill look at it |
20:43 |
mats |
i mean, if i quit keyboards completely, it goes away entirely after six or seven weeks |
20:44 |
mats |
and then it'll come back when i'm neglectful and sit down for a few hours where i'm actually using it a lot |
20:44 |
mats |
so in some sense it can be very manageable and i just can't get myself there |
20:45 |
whaack |
mats: alright, take it in with an open mind |
20:47 |
mats |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OclW2F8t68U this guy is doing interesting stuff |
20:47 |
mats |
project here https://github.com/pokey/cursorless-vscode |
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20:48 |
whaack |
mats: and i highly recommend getting a slackline, it helps you with posture and building up shoulder muscles and it is incredibly fun |
20:48 |
whaack |
shoulder and back muscles * |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm tightrope ? |
20:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076304 << asciilifeform finds this kinda thing moar interesting than simply for 'hands gave out' application |
20:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 15:48:04 mats: project here https://github.com/pokey/cursorless-vscode |
20:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-08-06 19:09:24 asciilifeform: theoretically interesting -- there were concepts in interlisp that never appeared in mit cadr + successors (bolix etc) -- e.g. the 'structure editor' |
20:51 |
asciilifeform |
muchly neglected concept in the current dark age of kompyooting. |
20:51 |
whaack |
mats: also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8CP-rfqp0s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQS0tdIbJ0w |
20:52 |
asciilifeform |
( see also thrd ) |
20:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-08-19 18:33:39 amberglint: asciilifeform: Interlisp-D emulator's src is up: https://github.com/Interlisp/maiko |
20:52 |
mats |
guy works on it full time and i donate |
20:52 |
mats |
hes also a cripple |
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20:53 |
asciilifeform |
structure editors would be a++ even for folx w/ working hands.. |
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20:54 |
whaack |
i really hope you get better, it sounds like i have had 10% of the pain that you have had for less time and that has been incredibly frustrating and depressing. |
20:59 |
mats |
thanks for mentioning it, i shared it with him in case he hasn't seen |
21:00 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: a slackline is similar to a tightrope, but a tightrope has more tention and you hold a bar to help you balance |
21:00 |
mats |
whaack: i appreciate it |
21:01 |
whaack |
i've been using my slackline even more than surfing now, it's much faster to get a quick fun workout than going to surf |
21:03 |
mats |
is there more information about this structure editor somewhere? |
21:04 |
asciilifeform |
mats: film |
21:05 |
asciilifeform |
pc port. |
21:06 |
asciilifeform |
screenshits. |
21:11 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
| |
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~ |
22:32 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076232 << this makes sense but how is it different from just spending that fiat directly? i guess technically you're avoiding capital gains tax, but only because you're not generating any capital gains |
22:32 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 20:19:59 thimbronion: If you convert your monthly income to btc and spend whatever percent you normally spend to pay off your cc every month and use lifo, your cap gains will be minimal or nothing at all. |
22:32 |
billymg |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076266 << what type of salary work do you do mats? |
22:32 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 20:31:40 mats: i actually start soon on some unspeakable wage slavery |
22:39 |
billymg |
i'm also in this camp. whenever i start thinking of going back to slaving for fiat i remind myself that working for the enemy is a trap |
22:39 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-21 18:26:51 thimbronion: I personally prefer the price to stay high so I can work on meaningful things, as opposed to almost anything you can get fiat for doing. |
22:39 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2021-11-04 03:31:08 billymg: signpost: lately i go back and forth between a) hunker down and grow/raise my own food, b) join megacorp and hope the keycard they give me gets me into whole foods after the masses get locked out |
22:39 |
bitbot |
(trilema) 2018-05-14 asciilifeform: there's a common set of jokes from su, q: 'if only we let germany win, we'd be drinking bavarian! riding in mercedes!' a: '... yes, ride in mercedes. but -- as the leather seat.' |
22:46 |
whaack |
yup, time is the spiritual currency, spend it wisely |
22:47 |
billymg |
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1486051087736094729 -- it still feels like el salvador is the only sovereign actually pissing in the reich's cheerios these days |
22:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-15 12:03:03 asciilifeform: imho ~whole point of bothering with the extremely gnarly rube goldberg apparatus is to piss on the reich in various ways. |
22:54 |
thimbronion |
billymg: you will generate capital gains on average. You will pay tax on it. This has the advantages of a) not losing money due to fiat inflation b) not supporting regime wars funded by fiat. |
22:56 |
thimbronion |
I suppose you could argue weather paying taxes supports the regime more, or holding their scrip |
22:56 |
thimbronion |
however whether one of the other is true, you end up with more wealth. |
22:57 |
billymg |
thimbronion: i understood it, from your description as, take monthly paycheck -> convert to btc -> convert back to fiat to pay bills (e.g. a rapid one-month cycle -- not much time for btc to appreciate considerably) |
22:58 |
billymg |
er, move that comma right before 'as' |
22:58 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I believe bitcoin appreciates something like .3%/day |
22:59 |
billymg |
ok, so you hold the btc for at most one month, if it gains in that month you're now taxed at the short term rate, which is the same as your wage rate |
22:59 |
billymg |
so i'm not saying hold dollars, but rather, hold the btc forever, and only spend the dollars that are coming in |
22:59 |
billymg |
the convert to btc and convert back again is what doesn't make sense |
23:00 |
thimbronion |
billymg: you are taxed on profits, yes, so that means you are making money. |
23:00 |
thimbronion |
regardless of the rate. |
23:01 |
thimbronion |
the tax is not 100% of the profit, more like 20%. |
23:01 |
billymg |
for long term, yeah |
23:01 |
thimbronion |
long term is lower |
23:01 |
billymg |
right, there are different brackets |
23:01 |
billymg |
20% is the max long term bracket right now |
23:02 |
billymg |
short term capital gains iirc is basically just your wage bracket |
23:02 |
thimbronion |
in any case, whatever balance you hold in fiat, you're missing out on .3%/day |
23:02 |
thimbronion |
for whatever period of time longer than a day |
23:03 |
thimbronion |
and that's assuming you spend your entire paycheck |
23:03 |
billymg |
and what mats mentioned here i believe is based on your total income for that year. e.g. if you make $50k salary and then sell some asset for a profit you're already in that "kicks in at 40k" range |
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23:03 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 20:17:17 mats: long term cap gains kick in at 15% after the first 40k |
23:08 |
billymg |
thimbronion: ok i see your point, basically always hold "the float" in btc because on average appreciates at .3% to usd |
23:09 |
thimbronion |
billymg: yes exactly |
23:09 |
asciilifeform |
if yer rapi-cycling btc in goxes -- also will eat the spread |
23:09 |
asciilifeform |
(aand the volatility) |
23:10 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i think his point is that the volatility, over a long enough time frame, comes out in your favor |
23:10 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: check out the lvl card - there's a spread, but no fees. Strike I belive has a smaller spread but lower limits. |
23:10 |
billymg |
and i guess if you "lose" one month that's "capital losses" |
23:11 |
asciilifeform |
likely would also need to hire a full time accountant to magick away all the 1099 bullshit 'gain' that'll go in yer dossier |
23:11 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: I currently pay my accountant 1k/year |
23:13 |
asciilifeform |
the fundamental problem w/ tax games is that they 'work until they don't'. i.e. what'll you do when tax collectors decide that you owe 20x what you've paid. |
23:14 |
asciilifeform |
+ interest. |
23:14 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: will pay it off in payments. can't take my house from my ex. |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
see also naggum. |
23:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-25 14:39:16 asciilifeform: punkman: it's, roughly, what killed naggum, for instance. |
23:15 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: that's norway |
23:16 |
asciilifeform |
and usa. |
23:16 |
thimbronion |
in any case those are the rules as they stand |
23:16 |
thimbronion |
retroactie tax changes are highly unpopular |
23:16 |
asciilifeform |
there's a reason why the 1k/y accountant won't give you an actionable guarantee that you will ~not, under any circumstances~ get that surprise bill. |
23:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-19 12:43:44 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik there isn't even a deterministic algo for 'i need q*x coin to buy this item priced x, q >= 1.0, cuz tax' |
23:17 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: irs doesn't provide any guarantees about anything |
23:17 |
asciilifeform |
aaha. |
23:18 |
thimbronion |
also what they're gonna charge you a 200% tax? |
23:18 |
thimbronion |
it's on profits |
23:19 |
asciilifeform |
it's on anyffin you might've been 1099'd for |
23:20 |
asciilifeform |
(which these days includes even absurdities, e.g. selling a piece of shit on ebay) |
23:20 |
thimbronion |
I mean yeah you're gonna pay tax on sales of btc |
23:21 |
thimbronion |
if there were gains |
23:21 |
billymg |
thimbronion: is this an accurate summary, roughly, of your philosophy on this? "there's no guarantee the irs won't come and shoot your dog tomorrow, regardless of what you do, so why not try to increase your btc stack and/or lifestyle in the meantime" |
23:21 |
thimbronion |
billymg: absolutely. |
23:21 |
billymg |
i can see it |
23:22 |
thimbronion |
if you are driving a nice car, better be paying a fuckload of taxes |
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23:24 |
* |
asciilifeform rather regularly gets 4-fig surprise tax bills |
23:24 |
billymg |
from irs?? |
23:24 |
asciilifeform |
more often from state |
23:25 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: same |
23:25 |
billymg |
i've had large tax bills at the end of the year too, usually not big surprise though |
23:25 |
thimbronion |
once they fucked up and actually corrected it |
23:25 |
billymg |
i've had to pay the penalty for "not properly withholding" too, it amounted to jack shit |
23:26 |
thimbronion |
I mean if I had a polish passport things would be different |
23:26 |
asciilifeform |
what amts to will naturally vary w/ yer weight class |
23:26 |
billymg |
like such a small % of the amount you "didn't properly withhold" that it's actually in your favor to pay the penalty |
23:26 |
billymg |
i.e. can invest the money during the year to make up for it |
23:28 |
billymg |
oh yeah, after mats was talking about binance today i got curious and looked to see if they have a "crypto credit card", they do, and here are the countries they support: https://www.binance.com/en/support/faq/ed89f6797ae943ad87841e58591eb229 |
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23:28 |
asciilifeform |
invest? well that's if you have magick amulet which makes the roulette come out to the colour you bet on always |
23:28 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: invest in btc for example |
23:28 |
asciilifeform |
and let's say you invested 6mo ago, lol, and need the fiatola nao |
23:28 |
thimbronion |
index fund evven |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076404 << pretty typical 'anywhere but usa' list |
23:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 18:28:13 billymg: oh yeah, after mats was talking about binance today i got curious and looked to see if they have a "crypto credit card", they do, and here are the countries they support: https://www.binance.com/en/support/faq/ed89f6797ae943ad87841e58591eb229 |
23:29 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: no latam either, which is what stuck out to me |
23:30 |
asciilifeform |
is wai eu passport costs 1m nao |
23:30 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2018-08-16 asciilifeform: there's a reason, i guess, why eu passport is 800k. |
23:30 |
thimbronion |
there will never be a wealth tax in the US |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
y'mean other than the current one ? |
23:31 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-25 15:27:18 asciilifeform: we have 'wealth tax' in usa. i.e. inflation. it simply only applies to plebes |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
( what other 'wealth tax' is there anywhere?) |
23:31 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: no I mean a real wealth tax |
23:31 |
thimbronion |
ie a tax based on an asset that you have not sold |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
what'd that look like ? 'pay 1% of that rembrandt' ? |
23:31 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: yes |
23:31 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: 1% of btc stack |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
i'm sure rubes will be found who actually register their stack and will pay |
23:32 |
billymg |
re: eu passports, the first country that does what el salvador is doing but that also has a standard of living *at least* comparable to cr -- i'd probably move there |
23:32 |
asciilifeform |
just not anyone w/ srs mass |
23:33 |
thimbronion |
The US is in fact the biggest tax haven |
23:33 |
asciilifeform |
taxes per se only apply to plebes. lizard pays % of income comparable to candy wrapper for you or i |
23:34 |
asciilifeform |
and will pay 0 % of 'wealth', will offshore as much of it as req'd and remain untouchable |
23:34 |
billymg |
dunno if anyone saw the michael saylor interview on tucker, but he actually goes as far in explaining the properties of bitcoin as saying "the government can put a gun to my head and take my house, but if they pull the trigger they won't get my btc" |
23:34 |
asciilifeform |
the only known way historically to tax a lizard is in a cork-lined cellar, a la lenin |
23:35 |
thimbronion |
putin figured it out |
23:36 |
asciilifeform |
imho his success there overhyped. |
23:38 |
bonechewer |
Putin's people are in league with the Western lizards |
23:38 |
asciilifeform |
for that matter e.g. abramovich still cackles in london |
23:38 |
thimbronion |
hope I never have to live in London |
23:38 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: how could they not be? modern ru is run by folx w/ 1e9$'s parked in zurich, children in harvard and oxbridge |
23:40 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: iirc d00d mostly lives on yacht in tropics, only the dough 'lives' in london |
23:40 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: that makes more sense |
23:40 |
bonechewer |
The propaganda in the West is that Putin reined those folx in and got them on board to back the Russian state. I suspect that the reality involves much more influence in the other direction as well |
23:41 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: it's a spectacle put on for plebes in ru. to certain extent leaks into reich fishwraps |
23:42 |
thimbronion |
what actually went down? |
23:42 |
asciilifeform |
iirc in cn similar (tho can't comment in detail, asciilifeform dun know cn) |
23:43 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: e.g. demonstrative dekulakization and jailing of hodorkovsky (kleptocrat, nao 'critic of putin' etc) |
23:44 |
thimbronion |
Khodorkovsky didn't serve time or wat? |
23:45 |
thimbronion |
Russian oil money is still net outflowing from Russia? |
23:46 |
asciilifeform |
1-2 served time, over9000 not only still on yachts but succeeded in sawing apart country, converting to yachts & cocaine century+ of plebe blood |
23:46 |
asciilifeform |
phunphakt -- stalin forbade petroexport. 'we will not sell the blood of the country' |
23:47 |
asciilifeform |
hrusch's conversion of su to a petrostan was '1st swallow of spring' re the sawing apart. |
23:48 |
asciilifeform |
( petrostans are inherently kleptocratic, i.e. instead of building up the kingdom, instead yer building up balances in zurich ) |
23:51 |
* |
bonechewer wishes Luka were more competent (link: "hipster bars continue to metastasize all over Minsk, lovingly adorned with POC portraits") but Belarus sounds okay |
23:54 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: funnily enuff, right here in the heart of the reich asciilifeform not yet encountered the supposed 'ausweis, bitte' 'vax passport' whatever |
23:54 |
asciilifeform |
must not be going to the right bars or wat. |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: belarus incidentally is a kind of 'sovok theme part' economically dependent on largesse from ru |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
*theme park |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
see e.g. mp's tour of the place |
23:56 |
asciilifeform |
if you like crumbling hruschebas, sov-style cops & train conductors in period uniforms, etc. -- yer paradise is waiting there |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
might even land coveted job in still-functioning tractor factory, if yer a level-6 lathe man. |
23:57 |
bonechewer |
yes, in particular oil acquired from ru below the world market price -- but that is in keeping with retaining it domestically the way asciilifeform seemed to approve of just now! |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: it's a 'muppet' rather than 'puppet' state, tho, fuhrer coquetted with west reich for many yrs, then ran crying to moscow when his 'partners' decided to set him up colour revolution |
23:58 |
bonechewer |
In NYC and Boston, not only bars but museums, etc., enforce the vaxpass |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
a here museums simply closed afaik |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
already before covidiocy they were gettin' heavy on the posters & reproduction an' light on exhibits |
23:59 |
* |
asciilifeform suspects sold and yachted |
23:59 |
asciilifeform |
even animals in the zoo were disappearing 'temporarily' |