#asciilifeform | 2022-01-07

manual scoopbot: http://billymg.com/2022/01/adding-postgres-auto-reconnect-to-the-log-bot/

00:32

billymg: very nifty! i'ma backport this to my logotron when i get a chance

00:32

(tho to date not choked in this particular way -- wouldn't hurt to have the belt'n'suspenders)

~ 22 minutes ~

00:55

Doesn't asciilifeform have a Lisp Machine?

00:55

Why not build the program in Genera?

00:58

Alternatively, I see no reason why this program couldn't use the emulated terminal, which at least works decently. Mine ACUTE-TERMINAL-CONTROL has the necessary functionality in its READ-EVENT function.

00:59

verisimilitude: i've only 1 such machine, and for all i know at any given time it's on its final hour

00:59

verisimilitude: purchased it for reversing, not daily use

00:59

That's horrible. Sell it to me.

01:00

asciilifeform: awesome, yeah, i figured it might be useful to others as well, just as a failsafe. i'll keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't fail in any strange ways and then publish as an actual signed vpatch

01:00

verisimilitude: not intending to sell until i've a 100% clone

01:00

I've considered running the Genera emulator.

01:00

verisimilitude: lemme know if you need a copy (iirc is relatively easy to find on www atm tho)

01:01

verisimilitude: if you want actual machine, write to dks, he might have 1 or 2 left

01:01

The issue is I've been too lazy to try. Then again, I really should find the time at some point.

01:01

He didn't answer my last email, but I could try again.

01:01

verisimilitude: expect to pay 6-7k$

01:01

Hell, I no longer recall if I actually sent an email, actually.

01:02

verisimilitude: doesn't hurt to check ebay periodically also (mine was from dks via ebay)

01:02

Of course, the GNU/Linux underneath would still suck.

01:02

On an emulator, that's.

01:02

verisimilitude: not only, but emulator per se is a bit halfbaked, crashes with regularity

01:02

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-06#1071281 So what of this approach?

01:02

Logged on 2022-01-06 19:50:35 verisimilitude: Alternatively, I see no reason why this program couldn't use the emulated terminal, which at least works decently. Mine ACUTE-TERMINAL-CONTROL has the necessary functionality in its READ-EVENT function.

01:03

verisimilitude: elaborate (which emulated terminal?)

01:04

*

asciilifeform considered ansi-style terminal, but could not swallow the handicaps (can't handle single-leftclick for links; can't copypaste from it w/out sucking in hardlinebreaks)

01:04

I refer to an ECMA-48 compatible terminal, such as xterm.

01:04

right

01:04

see above then

01:05

The first complaint isn't true.

01:05

A single left mouse click can be detected.

01:06

The text can be trivially made into a hyperlink, by simply redrawing the name with underlining enabled.

01:06

possibly (not tried, simply observing that not seen a proggy which does to date)

01:06

The CHIP-8 MMC has some mouse functionality.

01:06

right, the colourization would work (as in e.g. 'midnight commander')

01:06

dunno how you'd cure the cut'n'paste thing tho

01:06

w/out it the proggy's ~useless

01:07

That can be found here.

01:07

mouse select + 'copy' must work exactly as in e.g. www browsers

01:07

There's a protocol for this that could be implemented.

01:07

I don't recall if it be with name.

01:08

verisimilitude: if you recall, plox to post

01:08

cuz to date i've not seen a term proggy from which can select e.g. page of text and then paste w/out linebreak pollution

01:09

middleclick select oughta work, as in www browser, and not merely kbd-triggered cut/copy

01:09

I've spent far too much time learning about this garbage.

01:09

afaik if yer mouse-selecting in a terminal, the default behaviour (which shits linebreaks into the payload) always triggers

01:10

but if there's a pill against this which reqs 0 user behaviour modification, asciilifeform would like to hear about it

01:10

As the UNIX-HATERS Handbook claims, the issues with terminals are fixed by replacing them with the much costlier issues of X11.

01:10

I've found it.

01:11

half-troo -- they aint actually fixed, xterm preserves most of the old headaches

01:11

https://www.xfree86.org/current/ctlseqs.html#Bracketed%20Paste%20Mode

01:12

verisimilitude: not clear that this solves copy-from-term, or for that matter pasting from somewhere other than the proggy itself (e.g. from www browser or emacs)

01:13

Run the emulated terminal in Emacs, and configure it to avoid that side of the issue.

01:14

This seems like a complete solution.

01:14

verisimilitude: what part of ' asciilifeform doesn't want an emacs dependency in this ' is hard to understand ?

01:14

Emacs would only be used to solve the copying issue.

01:15

it's a 'hey have sumthing you explicitly tried to avoid' 'solution', nothx

01:15

Logged on 2022-01-04 08:53:53 asciilifeform: to date this was the reaction of erryone asciilifeform described the thing to , in meatspace. 'what do you mean, you want a machine screw? have this here wood screw'

01:15

Perhaps hacking the terminal itself would be a solution.

01:15

The terminal could be configured to avoid this newline issue.

01:15

so lol, now i also need a patched xterm just to use w/ 1 proggy ??

01:16

I was thinking a patched st.

01:16

It's from the suckless idiots, but it's usable.

01:16

what part of 'standalone proggy' hard to understand, lol

01:16

At that point, just combine st with the program.

01:17

Anyway, I'm only trying to help.

01:17

yea but this 'have a wood screw' aint particularly useful for actually solving the stated problem

01:17

ty tho.

01:18

I wasn't trying to waste our time, but I suppose I've.

01:18

what asciilifeform wants is full-fledged x11 proggy, where interface not distinguishable in any way, other than the 1 described, from adult text editor. e.g. has scroll bars, supports mouse wheel, mouse selection, unmutilated cut'n'paste, arbitrary (incl. var width) fonts, and 0 gigantic wads of legacy shitcoad.

01:19

(other than xorg per se, i suppose. but speaking of what gets ~linked~ into the proggy)

01:19

I think I'd sooner kill myself than experience that slow and painful death.

01:20

Yes, what an issue writing that would be.

01:20

dun necessarily have to be slow&painful (to run), after all not includes emacs..

01:20

to write -- well asciilifeform not found an approach to writing it to date, and looked since '07

01:21

this is prolly the closest thing anyone will find to a workable pill, and it's still imho loathesome

01:21

Logged on 2022-01-05 18:41:21 asciilifeform: when used w/ 1 of these, emacs simply listens on a socket and puts the letters where it is told to, sends keystrokes back to $process, etc

01:22

Something I failed to include in this article was the ``Any colour, any shade, so long as it be this one.'' problem.

01:23

So, I'm going to include this in a later article, but I think a better society would've by now punished these idiots for harming computing so badly, such as, say, by burying them to their necks in an ant mound.

01:23

It's ridiculous to live in a society with such a useless priest class.

01:23

verisimilitude: errything in the linked piece is imho 100% tru, but does fail to mention that often enuff (e.g. in the case of the proggy we were discussing earlier) the option to actually 100% escape from the cumulative pile of idiocy simply aint there

01:24

i.e. you need a new arch, new os, new compiler, new graphics stack, new fucking planet

01:24

It's there, only when a subset be possible.

01:24

Graphics aren't included in this subset, of course.

01:24

often enuff, all 'subset' gets you is an arse-nail chair.

01:24

Logged on 2022-01-04 14:19:11 asciilifeform: is sorta rather like how i'd rather sit on a wooden crate than a plush chair with a nail permanently affixed to the arse pad

01:25

I can use Common Lisp well enough, as an example, but Common Lisp can't do many things I'd like for it to be able to do.

01:25

Perhaps APL is a better example.

01:25

I can use APL for anything, except real work.

01:26

why's that? (no ffi??)

01:36

Well, I've never learned how to bring data into GNU APL, for one.

01:36

It's also not very fast.

01:36

Still, for exploring computation, it's pleasant.

01:36

that's the thing with not being able to frictionlessly interface w/ other proggies. ends up with 'can't use for real work'(tm)

01:37

enuff friction, and it may as well be on an ancient bolix box 1 blown capacitor away from valhalla

01:40

sometimes curable w/ heroic work; for instance asciilifeform will be able to bake an ada pestron once he (or someone else) comes up w/ tcp and sqlite glue for same

01:40

(the existing ones aint anywhere close to usable)

01:41

( what'd this look like? see e.g. asciilifeform's udp and mmap glues. )

01:42

I'll eventually and slowly finish the libraries for my Pest in Ada. Neither TCP nor SQLite are necessary, from what I see.

01:42

both are quite tricky to implement w/out heap allocation, will note

01:42

verisimilitude: how do you propose to bake irc frontend w/out tcp ?

01:42

I don't intend to is how.

01:42

Mine will write messages to a file, and that's it.

01:42

lemme guess, you want to bake own ansi terminal frontend?

01:42

ugh

01:43

*

asciilifeform doesn't care how other folx bake pestron for own use, but not eager to personally make use of 1 built in style of 'edlin'

01:43

The interface will be horrible, but the program simple.

01:44

*

asciilifeform finds even 'weechat' gnarly, for reason of impossibility of pasting from it anywhere w/out linebreaks pissed into output

01:44

it mangles incoming pastes, similarly

01:44

I expect to have a Common Lisp program to translate the messages to HTML, as a public log, and I could access this through Emacs, with another buffer for writing messages.

01:44

say you want to paste to/from a direct msg session tho

01:45

I've already envisioned examining the conversation as a data structure in Common Lisp, by INSPECT.

01:45

Yes, that will be quite inconvenient, in comparison.

01:45

verisimilitude: if you 'live in emacs' seems simpler to bake an elisp thing for the frontend

01:45

I'd need a special interface for that.

01:45

I've also considered that.

01:46

Still, Common Lisp is better.

01:46

iirc several folx here irc through an emacsism

01:46

I'm also using ERC.

01:46

I just have a nohup emacs.

01:46

see, that's what the irc frontend in pest gets you, can use existing irc clients incl. erc

01:47

I don't like IRC.

01:47

I use IRC, but I don't like it.

01:47

Similarly, I shit, but I don't like it.

01:47

is entirely tru that you can't e.g. thread in it (while pest protocol in fact supports threading)

01:48

so until there's a dedicated client, there'll be no threading

01:49

ditto displaying/entering msgs longer than 510 bytes minus length of nick+"/PRIVMSG "

01:50

otoh picture if asciilifeform had not specified use of irc as wartime frontend. doubt we'd have thimbronion's draft, or any other, it'd be in same state as asciilifeform's hypertext thing

01:51

'have you considered patched xterm' etc

01:52

verisimilitude: i'm sitting in front of an entire box fulla 'i use , but dun like' fwiw

01:52

describes literally entire contents of hdd.

01:52

Yes.

01:52

(customer:'this soup was terrible, i want refund' waiter:'but you ate entire bown' customer:'with spitting! i ate with spitting!')

01:53

*bowl

01:53

Part of why I don't write much, is I want perfection or nothing, and something that can't be ideal may not be worth trying.

01:53

fairnuff

01:53

I suppose I be spewing hot air.

01:53

well on e.g. asciilifeform's www there is a tag 'hot air' but also a 'cold air'.

01:54

e.g. pest spec is 'cold air'.

01:55

This can change. I don't look back on my terminal libraries very fondly, but they were nice for their time.

01:55

I got terminal control in pure Common Lisp, at the least.

01:56

often enuff can only choose b/w 'hot air' and 'nice for its time'. if you dun have the resources to rebake the machine.

01:56

life's meaningless, therefore use your time however you like.

01:56

Right now, my favorite library is my doubly-linked list library.

01:57

I don't have verisimilitude's kinks, but I don't begrudge them

01:58

wb signpost

01:58

I want a program I can smile at, or nothing.

01:58

howdy asciilifeform

01:59

anyway doesn't seem such a waste to grunt out a bespoke UI for pest, since others with IRC frontend are already in motion

01:59

indeed imho not at all a waste

01:59

the capacity for threading's super interesting; I look forward to pest-usenet

01:59

esp. if it's usable, or at least easily glued to sumthing usable hypothetically

01:59

would probably stop using the loathsome wordpress blog for that

02:01

signpost: various heathen chatrons support threading; asciilifeform noticed early on that we get it 'for phree' simply by having the netchain thing

02:02

(afaik all irc clients sadly insist on displaying msg sequentially, tho)

02:04

yep, seems like it will be useful.

02:05

*

signpost meanwhile dusted off the v-linux project for a break from the fountain code item.

02:05

latter works in python but take more check-blocks than the paper states, can't see the error in my math yet.

02:05

approx 2-3% moar than should, I think

02:05

*

signpost will get the thing posted for critique before long.

02:06

grunted the CL one forward a bit too. displaced arrays are mighty nice for slicing up an underlying buffer.

02:07

verisimilitude: "because I want it, fuck you" is perhaps every man's motivation, or not a man.

02:08

signpost: indeed imho is common motivation of all folx 'worth the paper they're printed on'. the rest 'buy from corner store' and bake nuffin of interest

02:09

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-06#1071433 << generating the oddball statistical distribution called for in the orig. paper is a bit tricky

02:09

Logged on 2022-01-06 20:57:28 signpost: latter works in python but take more check-blocks than the paper states, can't see the error in my math yet.

02:09

(and ftr asciilifeform not had chance to verify that it behaves as stated there)

02:10

*

asciilifeform speaking of luby's but iirc the moar recent encodings require similar mechanism

02:11

*

asciilifeform must bbl

~ 15 minutes ~

02:27

I agree it's in the nature of a true man to create what he wants, signpost.

02:39

even wanting impossible things is fine; some of them end up possible later.

02:45

I want many impossible things.

~ 12 hours 3 minutes ~

14:49

$ticker btc usd

14:49

busybot

Current BTC price in USD: $41785.47

14:49

!w poll

14:49

Polling 14 nodes...

14:49

205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.021s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

14:49

54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

14:49

205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=717593

14:49

205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=717593

14:49

205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=717593 (Operator: whaack)

14:49

205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.147s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593 (Operator: asciilifeform)

14:49

208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

14:49

54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.259s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

14:49

94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.375s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=716830

14:49

82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.327s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717012

14:49

103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.693s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

14:49

75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.382s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

14:50

71.191.220.241:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: asciilifeform)

14:50

143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

14:54

!w probe 71.191.220.241 8333

14:54

71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.096s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717593

~ 19 minutes ~

15:13

morning asciilifeform, looks like cheap coins are getting cheaper

15:14

over time, i've found that i enjoy price swings in either direction

15:14

thimbronion

whaack: oddly same here

~ 54 minutes ~

16:08

whaack: indeed, waterfall plentifully watered lately

16:09

anyone using mpwp have a good solution for spamola in comment box? for a while i was able to manually go through it but it seems i've been overrun by the bots

16:10

whaack: asciilifeform's arithmetic puzzler 100% cured spamola

16:10

whaack: would prolly work w/ mp's wp, it uses nuffin nonstandard. lemme know if want a copy.

16:11

right, i would use something like that, but i'm trying to see if someone has the exact place in the code where i need to put it

16:16

whaack: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pAi- << strictly unofficial copy. iirc dun require any manual changes to theme.

16:16

whaack: modify per own tastes.

16:20

whaack: it's a simplistic, to the point of laughter, puzzler, but since installed absolutely 0 spamola in mod queue.

16:21

(evidently suffices to trip all known automated spamatrons, and effectively discourages meat-powered ones on top of this)

16:23

whaack: lemme know if you get a chance to try it, whether worx

16:24

interestingly, when had ~just~ the xor puzzler, w/out the fg thing, ~did~ see coupla spamturds.

16:25

dpb

whaack> anyone using mpwp have a good solution for spamola in comment box? for a while i was able to manually go through it but it seems i've been overrun by the bots << use css to make the email field invisible, and use php to auto discard any comment with an email address

16:26

dpb: hm wouldn't that break the 'email addr as adhoc seekrit' thing, where comments from once-approved folx auto-post ?

16:34

asciilifeform: tyvm

16:34

np

16:36

dpb: thanks for the suggestion as well, i share the same concern as asciilifeform

16:37

in all fairness if you dun use the 'approve once, can then autopost' pheature, dpb's variant prolly does work against bots. but likely not against meat-powered 'philipinos'

16:41

dpb

yep, i don't get enough comments for it to matter, i approve everything manually, and i don't mind meatbots

~ 21 minutes ~

17:03

asciilifeform: added, change to be only a very simple math puzzle, will see how it fairs

17:03

changed*

17:03

whaack: be sure to test it manually

17:04

asciilifeform: of course, and it worx

17:04

a++

17:15

http://ztkfg.com/2020/07/how-to-test-gbw-node-by-viewing-the-first-ever-transaction-containing-a-p2pkh-address/#comment-1092 <-- interesting clump of text obtained by a spambot algo

17:23

whaack: prolly copypasta from random www

17:24

btw whaack billymg or other wp aficionados -- if you know how to make the puzzler appear ~above~ the 'submit' button, plox to write in

17:24

*

asciilifeform was not able to find a clean way to do it

17:25

*

signpost added similar cheap meat robot test, ended all low-effort spam

17:25

worx surprisingly well

17:25

will be mighty nice to instead take comments from wot over pest, in threads.

17:25

the comment format in wp is loathsome.

17:27

signpost: was thinking further re 'pest-usenet' -- possib. msgs oughta have a 'the next msg is to be seen as part of text of this one' bit flag

17:27

Logged on 2022-01-06 20:51:40 signpost: the capacity for threading's super interesting; I look forward to pest-usenet

17:27

yeah, a continuation marker, was thinking about that too.

17:27

perhaps m of n type thing?

17:28

rather, index and count-of-whole

17:28

imho not strictly necessary to give the N

17:28

sadly this'll require biting off some from the 324 bytes currently allocd for paylod

17:28

suppose you're taking messages from peers all the time without ending, yeah

17:28

*

asciilifeform hates breaking protocol, but there's a reason it's '0xfc' atm

17:28

*

signpost applying the define-all-things-definable religion everywhere to see what sticks

17:29

imho there's great value in permitting long form sanely

17:29

aha

17:36

imho ideally in a dedicated (i.e. not irc frontend) pestron, operator could throw in whatever length msg he likes (within reason, if it's a GB may trip his wot's rate limiters, whatever these happen to be)

17:37

the cutting into packets oughta be transparent to operators

17:41

indeed. and if for example I got a gb from asciilifeform, I'd assume it was important and gladly accept.

17:42

wot applies nicely here

17:42

"shit, the gasenwagen has arrived. here is my life's work, disperse as widely as possible"

17:42

signpost: sure, but you might not want to always issue the getdata's for the whole GB immed.

17:43

also true

17:43

really for large payloads lubyism & similar beats the shit outta sequential chunking

17:43

(in the latter, a good % of packets received will be 'orphans', to use trb terminology)

17:44

*

signpost has thought about this as perhaps a message type to request a lubyistic transfer, which opens a side channel and blasts lubywads to peer

17:45

right, would contain the final hash, title, possibly handful of 'right half / left half' hashes

17:46

(then atop this, one can build something where he asks his wot for $hash, and whomever has starts blasting lubywads until requester says stop or sender decides enough, at say (1+$lossRate)*$originalMessageLen or w/e)

17:46

can have a much better bittorrent on this without coordination

17:46

closest ancient item asciilifeform used , to this, was ye olde 'emule'

17:47

yeah, I loved those days.

17:47

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ruling-party-figures-say-poland-has-pegasus-spyware-2022-01-07

(the 1 with kademlia baked in)

17:47

*

signpost brb, changing meat locations

~ 2 hours 9 minutes ~

19:57

mats

~ 38 minutes ~

20:35

asciilifeform: in my theme was one line that had to be moved to put the arithmetic test above the submit button, dunno how different our themes are though

↖ ↖

20:36

in your theme do you have a comments.php file with a line that looks like `<?php do_action('comment_form', $post->ID); ?>`?

~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~

21:52

seems scoopbot died.

21:52

http://trinque.org/2022/01/07/desensitization/

~ 40 minutes ~

22:33

PeterL

billymg which one line do you move?

22:40

PeterL: in my theme that line, `<?php do_action('comment_form', $post->ID); ?>`, was the one that spit out the extra fields from asciilifeform's spam trap plugin. i just moved it where i wanted it and that was it

22:41

gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060442 << it turns out peterson is lately closer to nietzschean thought than I realized, though I don't know if he'd characterize it as such.

22:41

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:08:40 gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060433 << Burke, Carlyle (and more recently, Dr Jordan Peterson) represent an

22:42

peterson's notion that perhaps imagining the greatest possible man and emulating him is beneficial regardless of the truth of the mythological man is directly lifted from nietzsche.

22:42

this was what the ubermensch was meant as, a projection of the superlative man before oneself towards which one strives.

22:43

imho peterson's taking the coward's way out in deeming that this must occur within traditional religion, but the style of mental operating system is timeless in either case.

~ 28 minutes ~

23:12

perhaps one could claim that the religious rendering protects against any particular mortal claiming they are the embodiment of the ideal, but in practice that doesn't appear to have stopped anyone.

23:17

PeterL

asciilifeform: so I thought the math challenge would just show up on comments, but it shows up on my admin login too, I guess that is an extra bit of security

23:18

scoopbot

New post on Blog of Peter Lambert: From the Spam Trap

23:20

PeterL: i think you have a rather selfish scoopbot :p

23:20

PeterL

I just restarted it a minute ago !

23:21