Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2021-11-09 | 2021-11-11 →
00:23 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064546 << i'd very much like to get folx to commit to participate publicly. min. qualification is 'people running a trb noad', you know who you are.
00:23 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 16:45:05 PeterL: perhaps tbf could have a multiperson bounty commity that could approve dispersals, including to asciilifeform?
00:23 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 18:16:31 asciilifeform: thimbronion et al : i'm thinking of setting up a shamir split for the piggy, but it'll have to be later, lotsa more pressing work atm.
00:28 dpb i maintain a node
00:28 asciilifeform dpb: is it in the wg roster ?
00:29 dpb i don't think so
00:29 * asciilifeform not in any particular hurry, expects that folx srsly interested will stand up
00:29 asciilifeform dpb: let's add it?
00:30 * asciilifeform had nfi that dpb had one
00:31 dpb http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333
00:33 asciilifeform !w probe 75.106.222.93 8333
00:33 watchglass 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.464s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708993
00:33 asciilifeform neato
00:33 * asciilifeform will add
00:34 dpb it is often "down" as cron restarts it every 7 or 8 minutes
00:34 asciilifeform lol why so often??
00:34 dpb when i set to every 30 minutes, it fell behind
00:35 dpb it is hosted on satelite internet
00:36 asciilifeform ugh
00:36 asciilifeform interesting experiment tho
00:36 * asciilifeform wouldn't dream of running a noad on a dish
00:36 dpb it works fine
00:38 asciilifeform 'semispace garbage collection' lol
00:39 asciilifeform iirc a # of folx admitted to doing the cron trick
00:39 * asciilifeform restarts his 1-2x/yr, and the most recent time was simply because offered nodes to cgra for target practice
~ 15 minutes ~
00:54 asciilifeform dpb: btw is this still your famous pogo noad?
00:55 dpb no
00:55 asciilifeform a ok
00:55 * asciilifeform would've been at least a little surprised
~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~
02:17 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064176 We use very different bestiality forums then, asciilifeform.
02:17 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 17:33:04 asciilifeform: if yer passion in life is, dunno, zoophile forums, you still want continuity if you want something like actual social life in functioning relations with fellow zoophiles
02:18 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064174 I disagree with the thinking of there being no value here.
02:18 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 17:31:17 asciilifeform: i.e. literally no one knows whether message n+1 is by same person as n and n-1
02:19 verisimilitude There's a place for both. Many of my messages are anonymous like this, and other times I'm here, with this name.
02:20 verisimilitude Unfortunately, they do devolve into garbage, without humans lording over them.
02:20 cdd how about don't visit zoophile forums, gross
02:21 cdd Having a conscience and a moral compass might help.
02:26 cdd There are a plethora of reasons one might want to stay anonymous besides evil pr0n and scamming. Wanna end up like China? Wait til you've got government issues PGP keys and biometric hashing.
02:26 cdd In the name of generating a "digital identity".
02:27 cdd Is this what you want?
02:29 cdd Sure you don't have martyrdom, but if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, did it ever happen?
~ 20 minutes ~
02:50 asciilifeform cdd: i half-expected your link would be to auschwitz number tattoos.
02:51 asciilifeform cdd: i'ma assume yer labouring under a misconception, rather than delib. disingenuous. what does a voluntarily-genned pgp key 'by consenting adult' (which ftr need not contain any info re yer meatspace identity, simply rsa pub and a nick you like to be called by) have to do with masterkeyed ssl lulcerts issued by the reich ?
03:01 asciilifeform also gotta laff at the suggestion that simply being in the wot is an act of courage, of martyrdom. that's quite a lot of martyrs lol
03:03 asciilifeform 'you wouldn't want to get a buzz cut and wear a cap, they made auschwitz inmates do it' -- logical??
03:07 cdd asciilifeform: Being in the WoT and having a consistent identity doesn't necessarily tie it to my meatspace identity. I don't see a problem with registering for WoT (in fact I will now if it helps). I don't think that being on the WoT makes you a martyr lmao, I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. Perhaps a miscommunication of the definition of "anonymity".
03:08 asciilifeform cdd: your earlier comment suggested a phobia (and a not uncommon one among noobs) of whole concept of pubkey
03:09 cdd Erm, I have nothing wrong with pubkey? I have a problem with government issued PGP keys. It means that a 3rd party (a la government) has your private key.
03:09 cdd Which is fucked.
03:10 asciilifeform cdd: this is entirely correct, which is why no one in his right mind uses such keys other than at gunpoint lol
03:11 asciilifeform cdd: when doing 'consenting adult' biz, you'll naturally generate key on own iron, and keep the priv, well, private
03:12 cdd Of course. Assuming you can trust the iron. I really like the FG board.
03:12 asciilifeform cdd: do you have one ?
03:12 cdd Allows you to mitigate some of those issues.
03:12 cdd No, I'd like to since I saw it.
03:13 asciilifeform cdd: iirc dpb still have some, contact him and get a quote.
03:15 cdd I'll set up a WoT key first and contact him with that.
03:15 asciilifeform a++
03:15 asciilifeform so cdd already understands, then , that keys can be swapped, simply sign new one with old and ask signpost nicely when it's time.
03:16 asciilifeform ( presently signpost maintains an apparatus with a canonical directory of pubs )
03:16 asciilifeform in future, this will be a decentralized item.
03:16 cdd pest
03:17 asciilifeform aha
03:17 cdd I've been reading up on logs and blogs.
03:17 asciilifeform atm there is deedbot .
03:17 asciilifeform !!help
03:17 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
03:17 cdd Yeah, I've known about deedbot since before I even joined here.
03:17 asciilifeform cdd: outta curiosity, from where ?
03:19 cdd http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063530 << we've had this conversation
03:19 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-07 00:08:41 cdd: verisimilitude (sort of) I don't remember exactly It was about a year ago I came across loper-os
03:19 asciilifeform so, from asciilifeform's www? aite
03:20 cdd I've read a few more of your blog articles. Very good.
03:21 asciilifeform cdd: don't hesitate to comment
03:21 cdd asciilifeform: also, why do you refer to yourself in the 3rd person might I ask?
03:21 asciilifeform cdd: old habit
03:22 cdd I noticed you've had comments from fairly interesting people, notably fare and Terry Davis.
03:22 asciilifeform cdd: on ye olde usenet this was commonplace, in massive quoteblocks not otherwise easy to tell who is speaking
03:23 cdd I wasn't alive for usenet. Fairly new to meatspace.
03:23 asciilifeform cdd: there was a number of 'interesting' folx, incl. alan kay (tho we haven't any idea whether 'shakespeare or another man by same name' in the case of any of them, they didn't pgp-sign, lol)
03:24 cdd hah, shame that.
03:31 cdd !!register http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KcKT
03:31 deedbot 9AE49057D9F0AD7011E3B64FCB7A19D404E79375 registered as cdd.
03:31 cdd 9AE49057D9F0AD7011E3B64FCB7A19D404E79375 fingerprint checks out
03:33 cdd asciilifeform: ta-da!
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
04:43 signpost congrats cdd
~ 22 minutes ~
05:05 cdd !!help
05:05 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
~ 22 minutes ~
05:27 asciilifeform !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/trb/trb_change_of_guard.txt
05:28 asciilifeform lolhm signpost does this knob still work?
05:30 * asciilifeform will bbl
05:43 asciilifeform ftr the orig addr contained exactly 33.62385534. why the last broadcast reported 34.48886128, remains a mystery. there were no spends b/w aug. 2020 and today.
05:43 asciilifeform i suspect that at some pt jurov forgot to subtract the amt spent at ye olde piz.
05:44 * asciilifeform will amend the .txt, since deedbot is apparently on vacation
05:49 * asciilifeform updated.
05:49 * asciilifeform genuinely bbl.
05:49 asciilifeform !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/trb/trb_change_of_guard.txt
~ 56 minutes ~
06:46 * signpost turned off the service running that, since it hadn't been used in a very long time.
06:46 signpost I'll see about bringing it back up tomorrow
~ 32 minutes ~
07:18 cdd Allrighto
07:19 cdd I'm taking the LFS pill, any software recommendations?
~ 21 minutes ~
07:40 cgra i do appreciate coin rewards, but if i ever end up producing significant value for someone, it's up to him to choose how to compliment -- for now, i don't trust myself skill- and engagement-wise to speak of anything too serious, in advance.
07:40 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 16:39:45 billymg: perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin
07:40 cgra i also have a mini-review in response to trb/tbf topic at hand:
07:40 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 15:48:06 asciilifeform: billymg BingoBoingo cgra dpb mats shinohai signpost thimbronion whaack ( afaik all trb users/experimenters presently tuned in ) 'please speak nao or 4evah hold your peace'
07:40 cgra when i began trb study, i thought i'd read and document the thing, for easier digestion and reference. and i'd simply cut off every line that didn't do anything meaningful, and see if it got any clearer. then, once i'd feel confident in what i'm doing, start operating a node, a node that would not need a daily baby-sitting. while no end in sight, the plan worked, more or less.
07:40 cgra then i ran into a bunch of DoS issues (about to publish a (partial?) summary soonish), and thought they need a fix. breaking a tooth in a fix attempt made me better understand what asciilifeform meant by 'c++ trb being a life support item': there is a near-complete chain of bad ideas depending on each other -- try and touch one, gotta also change a handful of others, and then handful of further handfuls, and so on. that's why i may be
07:40 cgra beginning to also lean on the #1 feature needing a fix first...
07:42 cgra no. 1 feature, this one
07:42 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 16:40:36 asciilifeform: the #1 missing feature, however, imho is the big one.
07:42 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 12:03:21 asciilifeform: ... but to make the proper replacement.
07:43 cgra what's more, how many of those bad ideas you may replace (if you somehow found a way to isolate them), and still be speaking of trb? i don't necessarily feel qualified to choose.
07:55 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064691 << I made a couple patches that removed things back in the day, but I think they were never merged
07:55 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 02:40:47 cgra: when i began trb study, i thought i'd read and document the thing, for easier digestion and reference. and i'd simply cut off every line that didn't do anything meaningful, and see if it got any clearer. then, once i'd feel confident in what i'm doing, start operating a node, a node that would not need a daily baby-sitting. while no end in sight, the plan worked, more or less.
08:01 cdd punkman: speaking of patches, I've noticed there's the Vpatch system which appears to be integrated with the WoT, does that happen to have a guide somewhere?
08:09 punkman cdd, not integrated as such, but the various V tools let you sign patches with GPG
08:11 punkman V being perhaps unfortunate naming choice, hard to search logs for it
08:13 punkman https://archive.md/pRfAz "V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system"
~ 1 hours 40 minutes ~
09:53 punkman https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-gangs-are-spreading-african-swine-fever-to-profit-2019-12
~ 4 hours 35 minutes ~
14:29 punkman "I’m bothered by the fact that black Punks trade cheaper than white ones. I understand how markets work, but damn, my hope is that the metaverse will a better place, not one with the same prejudices we have in the real world. Call me naive I guess."
14:30 shinohai TOP KEK
14:32 punkman in usg lulz https://twitter.com/Real_Xi_Jinping/status/1458440066448113664
14:41 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064691 << ftr this was exactly asciilifeform's history with the subj.
14:41 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 02:40:47 cgra: when i began trb study, i thought i'd read and document the thing, for easier digestion and reference. and i'd simply cut off every line that didn't do anything meaningful, and see if it got any clearer. then, once i'd feel confident in what i'm doing, start operating a node, a node that would not need a daily baby-sitting. while no end in sight, the plan worked, more or less.
14:41 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064692 << ditto.
14:41 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 02:40:56 cgra: then i ran into a bunch of DoS issues (about to publish a (partial?) summary soonish), and thought they need a fix. breaking a tooth in a fix attempt made me better understand what asciilifeform meant by 'c++ trb being a life support item': there is a near-complete chain of bad ideas depending on each other -- try and touch one, gotta also change a handful of others, and then handful of further handfuls, and so on. that's why i may be
14:43 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064697 << in #t asciilifeform & mp had kilometres of remarkably unproductive discussion about this. the heart of the matter aint complicated tho -- you don't necessarily need 'bug for bug compat.', but you do need sufficiently close emulation so that your noads cannot be induced to fork.
14:43 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 02:43:06 cgra: what's more, how many of those bad ideas you may replace (if you somehow found a way to isolate them), and still be speaking of trb? i don't necessarily feel qualified to choose.
14:44 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064703 << imho this remains the best intro written to date. (current-day vtrons use keccak hash in place of sha512 but otherwise algo has not changed substantially)
14:44 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 03:13:03 punkman: https://archive.md/pRfAz "V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system"
14:45 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064683 << a. would be pretty great to have it back, asciilifeform would like to !!deed tbf broadcasts .
14:45 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 01:46:05 signpost: turned off the service running that, since it hadn't been used in a very long time.
14:46 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064702 << 'vtron' is a workable search term
14:46 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 03:11:13 punkman: V being perhaps unfortunate naming choice, hard to search logs for it
14:46 punkman should a trb replacement include features needed for mining?
14:47 asciilifeform punkman: i've always thought so (given as 'reference' implementation). not to mention that certain aspects are quite difficult to test w/out this component
14:48 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064704 << 2019 lol
14:48 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 04:53:55 punkman: https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-gangs-are-spreading-african-swine-fever-to-profit-2019-12
14:49 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064686 << more concretely ?
14:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 02:19:15 cdd: I'm taking the LFS pill, any software recommendations?
14:52 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064721 << prb is up to version 4 blocks now, https://developer.bitcoin.org/reference/block_chain.html#block-versions
14:52 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 09:47:26 asciilifeform: punkman: i've always thought so (given as 'reference' implementation). not to mention that certain aspects are quite difficult to test w/out this component
14:54 asciilifeform punkman: recall that it also imposes segshit & other softforkisms. imho they are 100% uninteresting from trb pov (aside from exploitation pov)
14:55 punkman question is if version 1 block are accepted by other miners
14:55 asciilifeform punkman: segshit miners naturally wouldn't
15:00 punkman i think they might still accept older version blocks
15:01 punkman at least if they are empty, or don't contain segwit txs without the witness data
15:02 punkman relevant: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/87293
15:03 dpb if a block is valid, why wouldn't a miner accept it? he rists losing money on his own block by ignoring it
15:06 punkman my guess is there's a subset of trb-valid blocks that might also be prb-valid, but not sure yet
~ 18 minutes ~
15:25 shinohai $ticker btc usd
15:25 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $68312.5
~ 17 minutes ~
15:42 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064586 << i run a trb node at home, behind a router, so it isn't much use to anyone else really
15:42 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 19:23:28 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064546 << i'd very much like to get folx to commit to participate publicly. min. qualification is 'people running a trb noad', you know who you are.
15:42 billymg i'm slowly working on being able to set one up somewhere, first acquiring hardware for the box
15:56 asciilifeform billymg: asciilifeform was simply aiming to get rough idea of who exactly is interested in trbism currently.
15:56 asciilifeform billymg is defo on the list, with his crawler works
16:00 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064733 << this is rather interesting. tho afaik none of the blox in question were 'anti'-segshit as such
16:00 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 10:02:07 punkman: relevant: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/87293
~ 15 minutes ~
16:16 signpost asciilifeform: will ping ya when !!deed is back up.
16:16 asciilifeform a++
~ 20 minutes ~
16:36 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064444 << asciilifeform, you've become the face of trb development in fact. Between bounties and getting some nodes outside your rack, there's sense in you holding the bank and using it for trb
16:36 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 15:48:06 asciilifeform: billymg BingoBoingo cgra dpb mats shinohai signpost thimbronion whaack ( afaik all trb users/experimenters presently tuned in ) 'please speak nao or 4evah hold your peace'
16:40 BingoBoingo And of course the domains need to be in the hands of someone active
16:47 BingoBoingo !w poll
16:47 watchglass Polling 17 nodes...
16:47 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
16:47 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
16:47 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
16:47 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Could not connect!
16:47 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.053s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
16:47 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.031s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709093
16:47 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709093
16:47 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.094s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093 (Operator: asciilifeform)
16:47 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.115s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
16:48 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.120s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709093 (Operator: whaack)
16:48 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.186s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093 (Operator: asciilifeform)
16:48 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.168s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
16:48 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
16:48 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.311s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
16:48 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.611s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
16:48 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
16:48 asciilifeform incidentally iirc BingoBoingo is the reigning noad fleet champ ( 4 ? if i'm not mistaken )
16:49 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
16:49 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'm down to two nodes. Cut two from the fleet due to hosts that just didn't perform adequately
16:50 BingoBoingo 192.151.158.26:8333 can leave watchglass's poll
16:50 asciilifeform a ok
16:51 asciilifeform theoretically w/ an improved sync mechanism, even slower boxen could be made to keep up
16:52 BingoBoingo In one case I suspect the "dedicated box" was actually an oversubscribed VPS
16:52 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: presently asciilifeform also operates 2 -- 1 in dc, 1 in torture room rack
16:52 * BingoBoingo doesn't count desk node
16:53 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: what's new in BingoBoingostan ?
16:54 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: still making films ?
16:54 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Interviewing for a technical writing gig later today
16:54 BingoBoingo May get back on the film thing.
16:54 BingoBoingo Been bouncing from idea to idea, but in 2021 everything seems so late
16:54 BingoBoingo too crowded
16:55 BingoBoingo But the country's doing good
16:57 * BingoBoingo will be moving from apartment asciilifeform visited in the near future
16:57 BingoBoingo Working on something of a life reboot
16:57 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: possib. you saw in log, but there's in fact a ~working pest net !
16:57 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 12:02:52 thimbronion: For those interested: pest testnet logs here: http://logs.bitdash.io/
16:57 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i recall, 'japanese' flat. upgrading ?
16:57 BingoBoingo Congrats
16:58 BingoBoingo asciilifeform Actually more of a lateral move. Going to plant myself and the Step Intern in a one or two star hotel in Centro and think about what I really want.
16:58 asciilifeform nifty
16:59 BingoBoingo Had been thinking about moving into a historic Palacio Salvo flat, but... want to expose myself more intensely to vintage Uruguay construction
17:00 asciilifeform it's interesting, the 'hotel of doom' where asciilifeform stayed 1st night on most recent voyage to BingoBoingostan -- where e.g. no toiletpaper -- had palatial architecture
17:00 asciilifeform 4m ceilings, lath'n'plaster, full works
17:01 BingoBoingo Right
17:01 BingoBoingo Kinda wanna see if living in an "of doom" sorta place if removing the "of doom" seems feasible.
17:01 asciilifeform oughta be; simply question of price
17:03 BingoBoingo Spent a bit more than a week in plywood shack at the edge of civilization back in July. Shack part wasn't so bad. Nature was great. Turns out apparently some sort of minimum population is required to think about living somewhere
17:03 asciilifeform some folx are cut out for life in 'mars station'. not erryone.
17:04 asciilifeform imho aint a thing to be ashamed of, any more than not playing the cello is
17:05 BingoBoingo Population of that particular hamlet is somewhere between 30 and 50 during winter. Maybe cut them out and it could be fine.
17:05 BingoBoingo But the tiny permanent population is just... enough people to bother. Not enough to hope to encounter people-people
17:06 * asciilifeform not lived in such a place, cannot comment pithily
17:06 BingoBoingo On the plus side A+++ fish there.
17:08 BingoBoingo The restaurant/hostel/bar serving bought fresh from fisher-ñery's bucket
17:08 asciilifeform oh hey
17:08 asciilifeform wb mod6 !
17:08 mod6 hi asciilifeform
17:09 mod6 ty o7
17:09 mod6 We're you guys looking for me? Saw in the logs ...
17:09 asciilifeform mod6: indeed: see recently
17:09 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 00:27:48 asciilifeform: !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/trb/trb_change_of_guard.txt
17:09 * mod6 looks
17:10 asciilifeform mod6: orig. was gonna ask if you knew where jurov was, but then the latter showed up and see above.
17:12 asciilifeform mod6: and in context of various interesting recent works, asciilifeform is aiming to bring back tbf as a living (rather than statuesque) entity.
17:12 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 11:57:15 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possib. you saw in log, but there's in fact a ~working pest net !
17:13 mod6 Ah, ok, just read through. Who will be the chairs for TBF, if you are to be the Treasurer and WWW maintainer?
17:13 mod6 Ok, I better follow the other link there, one sec.
17:14 asciilifeform mod6: at this moment asciilifeform is 'judge, jury, executioner'. would like to return to a moar seemly geometry in the future, however.
17:14 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 19:23:28 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064546 << i'd very much like to get folx to commit to participate publicly. min. qualification is 'people running a trb noad', you know who you are.
17:16 mod6 Ah, ok. Well, certainly it is necessary to continue upon TBF & TRB work. We all benefit from its success.
17:17 asciilifeform mod6: what have you been up to these days ?
17:18 mod6 Indeed, wearing all of the hats can be complex and tiring at times. Getting additional help to separate responsibilities is important, and sounds like the goal.
17:19 mod6 (I'm not saying anything not already known, fwiw, just 'saying it anyway').
17:19 asciilifeform for folx recently tuned in -- mod6 historically did large % of the heavy lifting work for tbf.
17:21 mod6 < asciilifeform> mod6: what have you been up to these days ? << Been busy doing lot of meat-space things. And even some trb stuff earlier this year. Got a decent jump on rawtx functions in TRB early summer.
17:21 asciilifeform ( most recently, was instrumental in resolving the 2020 wedge enigma. )
17:21 dulapbot Logged on 2020-02-27 10:44:22 asciilifeform: attn trb operators: 205.134.172.27 is nao running mod6's latest variant, augmented with this experimental patch (my sig thereof ) .
17:21 asciilifeform mod6: a neato !
17:21 mod6 Have not published or done tons of testing on my own, been distracted by rennovations and other similar meat-space responsibilities.
17:22 asciilifeform mod6: i'ma be bringing back the ml, so will be great to have your experiments
17:22 mod6 As the year winds down, I do plan to continue work in this direction.
17:22 asciilifeform mod6: similarly, asciilifeform has been mired in commercial liquishit, and not published too many things of note in past yr
17:22 mod6 bringing back the ML would be really great imho. It cuts both ways, it used to be kinda clunky, but at least people could post, and all the submissions were stored in one place.
17:22 asciilifeform ( more or less just one thing )
17:23 * mod6 looks
17:23 asciilifeform mod6: imho a ready place to drop patches is essential.
17:24 mod6 *nod*
17:24 mod6 oooh Pest. Nice, will read in full.
17:24 asciilifeform mod6: the working draft is here.
17:24 asciilifeform and thimbronion has a py prototype, several folx running nao.
17:25 asciilifeform !q uptime
17:25 dulapbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 147d 13h 22m
17:25 asciilifeform ^ only this long since demise of fleanode
17:26 mod6 Also, yes, F FN.
17:26 * asciilifeform applauds return of mod6 , hopes that he stays tuned, lotsa interesting things happening.
17:27 asciilifeform iirc punkman has own prototype. and asciilifeform , with characteristic snail pace, baking own
17:27 shinohai Oh hai mod6 ! o/
17:27 mod6 Did your proposed patch of this ever go anywhere?
17:27 mod6 shinohai: Howdy friend!
17:27 asciilifeform hmm oddly brokenlink
17:28 mod6 erp. my bad, one sec.
17:28 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-10#1038702
17:28 dulapbot Logged on 2021-06-10 19:12:46 asciilifeform: whaack: ok, baked, tested: asciilifeform_dumpblocks_force_mainchain.kv.vpatch ; asciilifeform_dumpblocks_force_mainchain.kv.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig .
17:28 signpost howdy mod6. sorry that we came to blows during the demise of tmsr, and welcome back. this is trinque.
17:28 asciilifeform mod6: both of asciilifeform's noades running with that patch
17:28 mod6 Oh hello signpost, it's water under the bridge old friend.
17:28 asciilifeform (fixes laffable bug carelessly introduced by asciilifeform himself when wrote original dump knob)
17:29 mod6 asciilifeform: ok good to know, thanks.
17:29 mod6 lol, my irc speed has slooooowed. holy crap.
17:29 mod6 Have to relax back into this saddle.
17:29 asciilifeform mod6: cgra has been doing some 1st class trb digging. iirc he's working on an exposition of various vintage bugola.
17:30 mod6 yeah, read something about that. very important work / investigations.
17:30 asciilifeform very sharp fella, also tipped off asciilifeform re ffa at various times
17:31 mod6 Excellent. I love seeing folks take an interest and put effort into TRB. It's so important.
17:31 asciilifeform mod6: aand billymg baked a planetary noad crawler earlier.
17:31 asciilifeform (based on wg)
17:31 asciilifeform worx a++.
17:32 asciilifeform revealed what asciilifeform long suspected -- the population of properly working relays is quite small.
17:32 mod6 Ahh, yeah. Very cool. Looks like I've got some catching up to do if I'm to say anything meaningful.
17:32 asciilifeform mod6: don't overdose, lol
17:32 asciilifeform take it as slow as you gotta.
17:33 mod6 Haha, I'll take it slow for sure. :]
17:33 asciilifeform log snr imho a++ by historical standards -- 0 camwhores, ~0 lamers
17:33 mod6 outstanding!
17:34 asciilifeform mod6: current log smoothly incorporates historic log, for search/linkage purposes. all old links munged to redirect correctly etc.
17:34 asciilifeform billymg did some a++ cleanup of the logotron.
17:34 signpost I'm sure shinohai can scare up some tits if we ask him.
17:35 mod6 Thank you for keeping all of that going through these last years. I know it's work, and it's not free.
17:35 mod6 signpost: lol, indeed.
17:35 asciilifeform yw mod6 . and defo was not asciilifeform alone, plenty of hands .
17:36 mod6 I applaud all of the hands that helped. Thank you all. It's worthwhile effort without question.
17:36 shinohai signpost: anytime! Though I prefer more quality tits than those discord trannies mp wanted me to scare up.
17:36 asciilifeform imho defo moved past stage of 'nostalgia pit'
17:37 mod6 I have to admit tho, sometimes the crazy / eyes-bleeding pics were so bad, they were good - like a train wreck.
17:37 mod6 But, indeed, quality++.
17:38 signpost asciilifeform: indeed.
17:38 mod6 *nod*
17:38 mod6 I think it's high-time for a new era.
17:39 mod6 I'll commit to testing your dumpblocks_force_mainchain vpatch as soon as I get some time. This sounds bad, but hopefully can report back before end of year.
17:41 mod6 I'll also continue work / testing on that rawtx stuff and report in. I think the main function that I'm currently needed to build is signrawtransaction(). I believe I might have all the rest working.
17:42 mod6 (I may hvae an implementation of sendrawtransaction(), I'll have to look - unsure at this point. Certainly have not tested it, if I do have it implemented.)
17:43 mod6 I also understand that the goal is, or was, to separate the wallet from trb so the rawtx work I'm doing probably doesn't have a lot of legs or long term use. But I thought it worthwhile to build those tools, at lesat even for my own node / enrichment.
17:43 mod6 *shrug*
17:46 asciilifeform mod6: imho entirely worthwhile.
17:46 asciilifeform if not for these 'may not have long legs' experiments, we'd've not had trb at all.
17:46 mod6 Solid point.
17:47 mod6 It's been pretty handy just having 'getrawtransaction()'.
17:48 asciilifeform aha. whaack was doing all kinds of 'block explore' experiments (atm he's on hiatus from iirc injured hands)
17:48 asciilifeform he's the 1 who found the dumpblock oops
17:48 mod6 Ah, might have read that.
17:49 mod6 Great work.
17:51 mod6 Does anyone know if Ben ever kept mimisbrunnr<sp> going or ever published his code? Was useful too, once upon a time.
17:52 asciilifeform !q seen bomolochus
17:52 dulapbot bomolochus last seen here on 2021-09-17 15:54:56: thimbronion: stock character from greek plays, "buffoon" aha
17:52 asciilifeform ^ he reappeared briefly , and perhaps will again
17:52 asciilifeform afaik not published the old src
17:53 asciilifeform fella took to meatspace work and even his www has been cold for some yrs
17:53 asciilifeform would be nifty if considered to return.
17:53 mod6 Ah, *nod*
17:54 mod6 I def need a log dive and some catch up here.
17:55 asciilifeform mod6: no reason to hurry. asciilifeform suspects that mod6 will find the pest discussions interesting.
17:55 mod6 oh for sure, I did try to keep up with the details in the early discussion, but sadly wasn't able to keep up. I'll circle back through that as well.
17:55 asciilifeform mod6: originally we wanted to bake an ordinary irc net, then discovered that ircism intrinsically mandates 'supernodes' i.e. central points of failure.
17:56 asciilifeform which is the ultimate reason why every irc net which didn't wither away from disuse, eventually ended up like fleanode.
17:56 mod6 right, it was an interesting new take on the old discussion of ... what was it called? christ, can't even remember.
17:56 asciilifeform 'gossipd'
17:56 mod6 yes, thank you
17:57 mod6 pretty exciting stuff.
17:57 asciilifeform it's a solution to same problem, such as is possible w/out dedicated rsa coprocessors
17:57 mod6 *nod*
17:58 asciilifeform the spec is a pretty quick read imho.
17:58 asciilifeform (certainly weighs 'over9000x' less than full spec for irc...)
17:59 mod6 \o/
18:00 mod6 I'll read up on your spec. Any successful tests yet?
18:00 mod6 Or just spec only at this point?
18:00 asciilifeform thimbronion has mostly working prototype, a number of folx testing atm
18:01 mod6 neato!
18:02 mod6 Also, I should note re-wedge 2020, I was running with the experimental patch at the time; my nodes didn't miss a beat.
18:03 asciilifeform mod6: cgra discovered coupla moar potential wedges, he's in the process of writing'em up
18:03 mod6 I didn't jump in and comment, simply because I didn't have anything different to report than what you were already saying. But probably should have.
18:03 mod6 That's great to hear. Uncovering any such snags will help us all.
18:03 asciilifeform mod6: dun hesitate to write in, even if 'not ate 100% of log', you're 1 of the few folx who actually dug in trb guts productively to date.
18:04 mod6 Cheers. Will write in on such things.
18:04 asciilifeform a++
18:05 * asciilifeform must bbl
18:05 mod6 Yeah, trbs bowels are ... well... lol, you know.
18:05 mod6 Thanks for the warm welcome in here. I'll hang out, will check back periodically, ofc.
~ 15 minutes ~
18:21 signpost deedbot will be offline briefly to pop a new SSD in.
18:26 punkman https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/stupid-and-evil-in-equal-measure
18:37 thimbronion I've been following eugyppius for a while.
~ 16 minutes ~
18:53 asciilifeform punkman: very nifty www ( and new to asciilifeform ) , ty
18:53 * asciilifeform will comment further when gets a chance
19:01 * punkman now has to get tested if he wants to eat at restaurant (and only outdoors), get haircut, shop retail, interact with gov/city services
19:03 asciilifeform ugh
19:03 punkman meanwhile, something like 50-60% of cops are unvaxxed, you know the ones that will fine you if they catch you without the proper papers
~ 3 hours 40 minutes ~
22:44 cdd thimbronion: Is the tarball linked here complete except for the genesis vpatch in the more recent blogpost mentioned here?
22:44 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-10 13:00:45 asciilifeform: thimbronion has mostly working prototype, a number of folx testing atm
22:48 thimbronion cdd: I wouldn't try to use that tarball. It will run, but it's missing a lot of important changes.
22:50 cdd thimbronion: I'm not too familiar with V, is genesis a patch (for that tarball) or is it like the first git commit in a repo?
22:51 cdd Let me rephrase; Is genesis.vdiff standalone, or is it a patch to be applied to an existing build (i.e. Alcuin 9994)
22:52 thimbronion genesis is more like the first commit.
22:52 thimbronion You can use this: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/blatta-9992.tar.gz
22:53 thimbronion Note that in the versioning system that blatta uses, lower numbers correlate to later releases
22:53 cdd yessir, I also noticed you skipped a version?
22:53 cdd 9993?
22:54 asciilifeform cdd: this practice is sometimes called 'kelvin versioning'. orig. idea was d.e.knuth's, picture an object cooling, going to (but never reaching) 'absolute 0'
22:55 thimbronion cdd: genesis.vpatch was actually 9993
22:55 asciilifeform the latter corresponds to an utterly perfect, bug-free proggy.
22:55 asciilifeform e.g. ffa is kelvin-versioned.
22:56 cdd thimbronion: oh I see.
22:57 cdd asciilifeform: I was thinking about the versioning system before you guys mentioned it, I'd like to suggest a similar thing to TeX, why not use decimal places of say Phi?
22:57 asciilifeform knuth's tex 'approached pi' (iirc 'upon the death of the author, the version shall equal pi')
22:58 * asciilifeform prefers the simplicity of integers to represent 'cooling'
22:58 cdd That is of course a very understandable argument.
23:00 asciilifeform see e.g. this exposition.
23:03 cdd asciilifeform: I have a few problems, 1. I don't understand Finite Field Arithmetic, 2. I don't understand (is that haskell?) whatever programming language is being used.
23:04 asciilifeform cdd: ada.
23:04 cdd ah
23:05 asciilifeform cdd: if you did e.g. pascal as a kid, you will find it ~99% readable, there's 0 haskellistic exoticism in it (is straightforward imperative lang, similar to c but w/out the buf. overflows and related 'amusements')
23:05 cdd well, to my usual spot then: lol.
23:05 asciilifeform lol404
23:05 cdd whatt
23:06 cdd I lemme check the site, I just assumed it was there because of the url-format
23:07 cdd ...it is not there. Well shit.
23:07 * asciilifeform normally recommends to noobs ffa itself as a lang intro text.
23:08 asciilifeform folx who read from ch1 generally don't find themselves in need of ref boox
23:08 cdd Right. Time to add ada to a list of things for my LFS build.
23:09 cdd I'll give it a shot once I've got everything in order on atleast (one) of my devices.
23:10 asciilifeform cdd: don't let the title frighten you, 'finite field arithm' simply refers to what more often is called 'bignum' (arithm. ops. with integers larger than fit in a machine word)
23:10 cdd Ohhhh
23:11 asciilifeform why this was needed is detailed in ch1.
23:11 cdd I will read up.
23:11 asciilifeform don't try to eat errything at once, cdd , i rec to pick a thing and 1atatime
23:12 asciilifeform it is not given to anyone to be interested in errything simult.
23:13 cdd asciilifeform: Yeah, I'm learning my lesson when it comes to that. Even now, I'm trying to learn Common Lisp, build LFS and not explode.
23:16 cdd I better focus on this, I might not be on for a while, be well and thank you.
23:16 asciilifeform cdd: no worries.
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