00:49 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064151 << how is it possible to understand "tokens" if you don't understand bitcoin |
00:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 14:57:18 cdd: I have a limited understanding of Bitcoin, but I have a somewhat decent understanding of "tokenomics" and other abstract shitcoin biz. |
00:50 |
punkman |
sort of like having a decent understanding of calculus, without understanding basic algebra |
| |
↖ |
00:52 |
cdd |
punkman: Well, I mean that in a comparison. I know more about shitcoins than I do about bitcoin itself. Ask me to write a basic blockchain and I'll have no idea where to start. I understand limited things abstractly, but I have no real knowledge of their implementation. |
00:53 |
cdd |
I'm a complete noob in a sense. I can watch candles go up and down, that's about it. |
00:55 |
cdd |
Jack of all trades, master of nothing. Don't expect much from me. |
00:56 |
punkman |
this is the hope of shitcoin peddlers, you have a "decent understanding" without "knowledge of implementation", and then they can handwave the grim realities of their shitware away |
00:57 |
cdd |
Well, I assure you I'm not here to peddle shitcoins. The loopix stuff was only something I'd heard of elsewhere and brought up in relation to pest. |
01:00 |
cdd |
If I was here to shill crap, it's all I'd be talking about after establishing some sense of rapport. |
01:01 |
punkman |
no, I mean that's how you are being "peddled to", not that you are doing it |
01:03 |
cdd |
Ah I see, you suggest that I gain an intrinsic understanding of these things (implementation) in order to prevent myself being scammed. |
01:03 |
cdd |
I completely agree. |
01:03 |
cdd |
I've only put money into one shitcoin/altcoin because of it's tokenomics. |
01:04 |
cdd |
Even with a surface level understanding of it, perhaps it was a mistake. |
01:04 |
punkman |
which one is that? |
01:04 |
cdd |
Safemoon. |
01:04 |
cdd |
It has a 10% burn, 50% of which is distributed among all holders. |
01:05 |
cdd |
The other is to a burn wallet that devs don't have access to. Their contract code is on the github, I had a read and it seems pretty sound. |
01:06 |
cdd |
It makes sense, but it's inherently flawed and will always be an asset, not a currency. |
01:07 |
cdd |
So in the crypto rat-race it's just another shitcoin. |
01:10 |
punkman |
"SafeMoon multiplied rapidly in value after a wave of celebrity endorsements,[10] including from rapper Lil' Yachty, YouTuber Logan Paul, and sports blogger Dave Portnoy." |
| |
↖ |
01:10 |
punkman |
heh |
01:10 |
cdd |
Oh, I didn't know about that. Cringe. |
01:11 |
cdd |
It's got a reddit page that's just a cringe shitstorm. |
| |
↖ |
01:12 |
punkman |
why would you use/hold Safemoon, instead of Binance coin? |
01:12 |
cdd |
The burn. |
01:12 |
cdd |
I made 1mil tokens in the recent pump. |
01:12 |
cdd |
Because of that 5% distribution. |
01:12 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064224 <<< for the love of Satan what else do you expect to find on reddit? |
01:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 20:11:18 cdd: It's got a reddit page that's just a cringe shitstorm. |
01:13 |
cdd |
shinohai: pron. |
01:14 |
shinohai |
I mean, if you like cuck pr0n .... to each their own. |
01:14 |
cdd |
I don't use plebbit. |
01:14 |
cdd |
I'd like to point that out, I don't use dickscord either (though I did for a while. It's a generational thing) |
01:16 |
cdd |
My main interest is in Safemoon's tokenomics, because it was the first coin to come up with a distributed burn (from my knowledge) |
01:17 |
cdd |
If there have been more beforehand, excuse my ignorance. |
01:17 |
punkman |
it's not a burn if you are getting it |
01:17 |
cdd |
5% burn, 5% dist. |
01:17 |
cdd |
So eh, I guess. |
01:17 |
punkman |
says the other 5% goes in "liquidity pool" |
01:18 |
cdd |
No, a burn wallet. It's gone, locked away permanently and cannot be retrieved. |
01:18 |
cdd |
0x000000000...01 |
01:18 |
punkman |
anyway, these "tokenomics" are variation of "ponzi scheme" |
01:19 |
cdd |
I'm aware. |
01:20 |
cdd |
It's an uneven distribution, proportional to the number of tokens you hold. |
01:20 |
cdd |
So someone with a shit tonne of tokens, gets more of a share from each distribution. It's market incentive for something that holds no intrinsic value. |
01:21 |
cdd |
That's why it's an asset. |
01:22 |
cdd |
My thought is that if you wanted a currency, why not have Universal Basic Income based off a decentralized distribution. That way the tokens hold their value in distribution because you're not "printing more money" so to speak. |
01:22 |
punkman |
if you think it's "ponzi scheme", how can you say it's an asset |
01:25 |
cdd |
It's an asset up until it's not. That's when I make exit and watch the ponzi collapse. Because I'm a longer-term holder I've been gaining reflections as the market moves. When it finally does it's huge pump I will have made more than the +10% gain needed for an exit. |
| |
↖ |
01:27 |
cdd |
Because there's that 10% on every transaction, I loose 10% when I exit. All the people at the top of the pump are apart of the ponzi because they won't have made the 10%. |
01:27 |
punkman |
ah "asset" in shitcoin jargon then. that's fine, punkman understands appeal of being degenerate gambler |
| |
↖ |
01:30 |
cdd |
I have to go now. Be well punkman. |
| |
~ 5 hours 47 minutes ~ |
07:17 |
cdd |
$ticker |
07:17 |
cdd |
$help |
07:17 |
cdd |
!!help |
07:17 |
deedbot |
http://deedbot.org/help.html |
07:18 |
cdd |
$ticker BTC USD |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
07:40 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064252 << Why do you say that? |
07:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 20:27:46 punkman: ah "asset" in shitcoin jargon then. that's fine, punkman understands appeal of being degenerate gambler |
07:42 |
cdd |
I'm not one of those robinhood weenies who can't take their eyes off the charts for 45 minutes. I look it it ~1 once a week, if I don't forget. |
07:43 |
cdd |
s/it/at/ |
07:45 |
cdd |
I wouldn't not say I've taken a gamble, but I'm not putting anything else into it and I'm certainly not basing my future on where it goes. |
07:51 |
cdd |
Though if you find fault in my thinking, correct me. I do not wish to fall prey to arrogance like the fool. |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
08:13 |
cdd |
asciilifeform: Been reading this article on your historic gentoo distfiles. I was reading some of the comments, specifically the reply to an "anonymous" user. I think I get what you mean now. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
08:22 |
punkman |
cdd, in my thinking, gambling on scam/ponzi/game-with-very-bad-odds = degenerate, gambling on blackjack = more wholesome. but you are right, it's also a matter of how much money one is putting in and how obsessed one is |
| |
↖ |
08:23 |
cdd |
punkman: I've put in a little over $700 AUD. Which (thinking about it) is too much. I did so over a period of about 3 months. |
| |
↖ |
08:25 |
cdd |
I intended to sit on it for a few years. |
08:26 |
cdd |
It's the only cryptocurrency I've put hard-earned cash into, mistake? |
08:26 |
cdd |
Erm. That could be interpreted wrong; It's the only cryptocurrency I've put anything into. |
08:27 |
punkman |
if it entertains you, who's to say it's a mistake |
08:30 |
cdd |
Well, couldn't that value be stored in bitcoin instead? |
08:45 |
punkman |
would be prudent to have investment budget higher than gambling allowance |
08:53 |
punkman |
ponzinomics from a different angle: https://hyiplogs.com/ - 27,760 items in database - 355 still paying |
08:56 |
* |
cdd holds back puke |
08:57 |
cdd |
point made. |
| |
~ 5 hours 23 minutes ~ |
14:20 |
billymg |
thimbronion: i'm having trouble connecting to blatta this morning, i'm getting Error(464) in my IRC client |
14:21 |
billymg |
can you see if my bot is connected? it would've reconnected this morning also |
14:22 |
thimbronion |
billymg: your bot is connected |
14:22 |
billymg |
thimbronion: weird! i saw your test message on my terminal here too |
14:23 |
billymg |
and just saw shinohai's message, which the logger picked up: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000067 |
14:24 |
billymg |
but i can't speak (from my irc client) in #pest |
14:24 |
shinohai |
ah werd |
14:24 |
shinohai |
I was gonna reply to PeterL 's message and noticed logger didn |
14:24 |
thimbronion |
billymg: hrm - maybe a port issue? |
14:24 |
shinohai |
't catch it |
14:24 |
billymg |
thimbronion: this is how i start blatta: `./blatta --port 61474 --password ****` |
14:26 |
shinohai |
billymg: you dont run with `--port=61474` ? |
14:26 |
* |
shinohai has no idea about password flag, hasn't used .... |
14:27 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I have likewise not used the password flag |
14:27 |
billymg |
was working yesterday, lemme try without pass |
14:28 |
thimbronion |
billymg: just sent you a pest dm |
14:30 |
billymg |
thimbronion: sent you one too, don't see yours |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
14:56 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: are you behind nat like asciilifeform was ? |
14:56 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 12:18:00 asciilifeform: thimbronion: it's behind a nat (with 13337 inbound routed correctly to inside) |
14:57 |
asciilifeform |
incidentally, thimbronion et al, i had the thought that if 'rubbish' packet is sent at last 1/s to ea. peer, the 'ephemeral' port will remain open. |
14:58 |
asciilifeform |
this may be the simplest solution to nat. |
14:58 |
asciilifeform |
(esp. since sending rubbish was already part of spec, as an option) |
14:58 |
asciilifeform |
*at least 1/s |
14:59 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: no objection. Can customize interval for your own nat's random settings. |
15:01 |
asciilifeform |
afaik 1/s is sufficient errywhere. but prolly oughta test empirically. |
15:07 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: imho best way to implement rubbish is a 'synchronous mode', where sends e.g. n msg/s to ea. peer, and if there's a payload, it 'catches the bus' |
15:08 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: what exactly is being synchronized? |
15:08 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: the outgoing 'transmitter' synced with the 'n msg/s' mechanism |
15:09 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. the frequency of packet emission is unrelated to the frequency of actual payload transmission |
15:09 |
thimbronion |
seems more like in this case there's an asynchronous background thread checking for messages in the message queue and sending rubbish if there's nothing there. |
15:10 |
asciilifeform |
prolly >1 equiv. way to implement this |
15:10 |
asciilifeform |
not having yet studied thimbronion's prototype, cannot say which is simplest necessarily |
15:18 |
thimbronion |
I'm just using asynchronous to denote the relationship between the user submission of a message and the actual transmission of the message. |
15:18 |
thimbronion |
synchronous to me would imply that a submitted message is sent immediately |
15:19 |
asciilifeform |
yea ideally wouldn't be 'immediately' |
| |
~ 39 minutes ~ |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064266 << imho aint nuffin wrong w/ gambling, so long as you realize that's what you're doing; and if you aint luring others to get cleaned out |
15:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 03:22:30 punkman: cdd, in my thinking, gambling on scam/ponzi/game-with-very-bad-odds = degenerate, gambling on blackjack = more wholesome. but you are right, it's also a matter of how much money one is putting in and how obsessed one is |
16:00 |
asciilifeform |
( observe that even 'very successful' ponzi artists generally don't end well -- ponzi himself, mavrodi, even mp, i'm not aware of even one who 'lived happily ever after' ) |
16:01 |
signpost |
deranging one's model of reality by lying has unavoidable cost. |
16:01 |
asciilifeform |
aaha. |
16:01 |
asciilifeform |
observe that it wasn't because the victims ate'em. |
16:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064221 << 'lil'yachty' ?! almost caricature-grade lul |
16:06 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 20:10:06 punkman: "SafeMoon multiplied rapidly in value after a wave of celebrity endorsements,[10] including from rapper Lil' Yachty, YouTuber Logan Paul, and sports blogger Dave Portnoy." |
16:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064203 << even worse, is arguably like trying to study art of salesmanship by reading nigerian 419 spamola. |
16:08 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 19:50:15 punkman: sort of like having a decent understanding of calculus, without understanding basic algebra |
16:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064250 << generally it is precisely the folx who think 'i can outsmart the con man' who lose their shirts, historically. |
| |
↖ |
16:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-08 20:25:52 cdd: It's an asset up until it's not. That's when I make exit and watch the ponzi collapse. Because I'm a longer-term holder I've been gaining reflections as the market moves. When it finally does it's huge pump I will have made more than the +10% gain needed for an exit. |
16:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-10 20:39:04 asciilifeform: there was an interesting talk (linked iirc by mats!) maybe in '14 ? about how scammers in traditional settings (i.e. 'numbers games' in back alleys) relied on this sin, where folx believe 'yes, is scam, but i can outsmart the scammer' |
16:10 |
asciilifeform |
they're the ones who end up pawning their house etc. to get their 'sure win' |
| |
↖ |
16:14 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064265 << i dare say that thrd quite exhaustively covered 'anonymism' |
16:14 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 03:13:39 cdd: asciilifeform: Been reading this article on your historic gentoo distfiles. I was reading some of the comments, specifically the reply to an "anonymous" user. I think I get what you mean now. |
16:16 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064267 << understand that the worst thing that happens in case like this aint that you lose , but that you ~win~, and get impression that shitcoinism is 'promising' and worth of serious time/dough |
| |
↖ |
16:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 03:23:58 cdd: punkman: I've put in a little over $700 AUD. Which (thinking about it) is too much. I did so over a period of about 3 months. |
16:17 |
asciilifeform |
you won't win enuff to buy the proverbial whore island retirement. but quite likely to win enuff to turn into habitual 'investor' in 'assets' and get over9000x stupider. time-tested pattern. |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
16:33 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $66759.18 |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
16:33 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
16:33 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:33 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:33 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.030s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708945 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:33 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:33 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.052s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708943 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708945 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:33 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.151s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708945 (Operator: whaack) |
16:33 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.137s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:33 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.225s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.264s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 |
16:33 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.586s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 |
16:34 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov) |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
^ at this rate loox like we are gonna need a new trb www, sadly |
16:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-03 13:31:04 asciilifeform: upstack, trb org dns still points to devnull |
16:35 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
the 1 in the default trb hellostring is kaput ( jurov ?!! ) |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
3wks+ nao. |
16:36 |
shinohai |
Entirety of tbf seems lost at sea aside from asciilifeform |
| |
↖ |
16:37 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: jurov's box ( as well as the 1 w/ the src viewer, provided by asciilifeform pro bono) still up. but whoknows for how long. |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
for nao i rec to link to asciilifeform's mirror until we get a proper replacement up. |
16:38 |
shinohai |
If jurov resurfaces and there is general consensus, am happy to do whatever to keep tbf www alive. |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
a++ |
16:39 |
* |
shinohai even thought of running trb pest station/guest chan |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: imho 1 obv. desirable future pestism is a way to tunnel trb via same |
16:39 |
shinohai |
Since my efforts with fleanode failed because of their insistence on ssl. |
16:40 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: we have many headaches, but fleanode aint one, anymoar, lol |
16:42 |
shinohai |
I'm really liking pest/blatta .... and have plenty of time to dedicate to debugging - so any tuned in that want to peer or test, feel free to DM me gpgram with keyz |
16:43 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: see whether you can sew in the rubbish sender. would be quite helpful imho |
16:44 |
shinohai |
Was just talking about that on testnet, trying to figure out a way to populate the nicklist so active users show up. |
16:45 |
shinohai |
(It's a bit maddening to not know who is online) |
16:47 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: prolly the cleanest way to do it is to consider all peers from whom received a packet in past 10min 'online', others -- not |
16:48 |
asciilifeform |
( this naturally only makes sense if we have a min. freq. for rubbish msg ) |
16:49 |
asciilifeform |
( alternatively, once we have 'getdata' , station can simply send getdata's and who responds, is 'online' ) |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
a good short-term kludge imho would be to consider all peers in wot 'online' so that irc client will at least give tab-completion, the current behaviour is quite frustrating |
| |
↖ |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064356 << ftr i wrote to jurov. 0 answr. (maybe someone has a newer contact for him?) |
16:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 11:36:49 shinohai: Entirety of tbf seems lost at sea aside from asciilifeform |
16:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-03 13:51:54 asciilifeform: text of msg ftr. |
17:00 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: cgra has been doing a++ trb work, possibly would like to be involved. |
17:02 |
asciilifeform |
imho the troo mission of tbf should not be to merely keep the ancient cpp turd on life support, |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
... but to make the proper replacement. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
17:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db . |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
as asciilifeform advocated for 6+y nao. |
17:04 |
asciilifeform |
the cpp turd is a blackhole that could absorb a nearly infinite qty of manpower and still remain a turd. |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
the quality approaches mswin-level (and that's only speaking of the trb src per se, not even to mention the idjit deps -- boost, bdb, openssl horror ) |
17:06 |
shinohai |
PeterL: http://btc.info.gf/paste/644569@raw |
17:07 |
PeterL |
shinohai: got your message |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
17:26 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064372 << I think this is best, so you can click on any user in WoT and attempt to send direct message |
17:26 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 11:50:20 asciilifeform: a good short-term kludge imho would be to consider all peers in wot 'online' so that irc client will at least give tab-completion, the current behaviour is quite frustrating |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
17:47 |
punkman |
heh https://twitter.com/JackShawhan/status/1457951413368016899 |
17:49 |
PeterL |
heh, tried to add your handle again and it looks like it crashed the program |
17:49 |
PeterL |
^ message to shinohai |
17:50 |
shinohai |
PeterL: were you running with debug flag? Any output? |
17:52 |
PeterL |
sqlite3.IntegrityError: UNIQUE constraint failed: handles.handle << I think this was because I tried to add the same handle twice |
17:53 |
PeterL |
I have to go for now, but I will try to get it going again later |
17:58 |
shinohai |
kk |
| |
~ 23 minutes ~ |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000152 << all 3 |
18:21 |
asciilifeform |
(hm that bot only on pestnet nao?) |
18:22 |
asciilifeform |
scratch that, apparently at some pt a packet actually made it outta 13337, hm. |
18:22 |
* |
asciilifeform wonders how. |
18:23 |
asciilifeform |
aaapparently the default ephemeral range (by rfc6056 ? tho iirc it only covers tcp normally...?) is 1024–65535 . so could be by pure chance. |
18:29 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: the earliest record in shinohai's at probably is from when he manually added your ip:port - may hever have received a packet from that port |
18:31 |
cgra |
billymg: ty for the pest logger, wouldn't wanna miss much pest tech talk before possibly joining the fun myself too. |
18:33 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: did your test trb box, by any chance, keep a historical ram usage record? if did, how much was the peak in last 45mins or so? |
18:34 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: yes, currently only on pest net. i guess i should run another process to have it in here for echoing pest lines |
18:36 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: unfortunately i don't have such a record on either atm. eyeball shows ~1.5G ea. currently. |
18:36 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: that would make sense. |
18:37 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: ok |
18:38 |
billymg |
latest line in #pest: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000156 |
18:38 |
bitbot |
(pest) 2021-11-09 shinohai: yes in "wot" single entry |
18:38 |
asciilifeform |
oh hey neato |
18:39 |
billymg |
for now i'll just keep an eye on it and restart when those db timeouts occur |
18:39 |
asciilifeform |
ty billymg |
18:46 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: i may have already said this, but the timestamps in 'wot' should only update when a valid packet is ~received~ ftr. |
18:46 |
* |
asciilifeform aiming to get a chance to actually look at the coad in coming days |
18:51 |
billymg |
cgra: np, glad it can be of some use to you |
18:52 |
asciilifeform |
afaik we've the world's 1st proper p2p chat ! |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
even if at 'spreading works!' level atm |
19:00 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: yes you mentioned that yes. But shouldn't something be shown in an at listing for address that hasn't yet received any packets? |
19:00 |
asciilifeform |
blank, ideally |
19:01 |
thimbronion |
blank timestamp? |
19:01 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
19:16 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: this of course for display purpose only. (if station only has 1 at entry for a peer, and you're transmitting dm to him (or broadcast) , oughta use that entry, even if nothing yet received from it. otherwise you have '2 trains waiting'.) |
19:16 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2015-12-24 asciilifeform: 'if two trains meet one another on a track, neither shall move until the other has passed.' (supposedly from a 1880s american state law) |
19:19 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: indeed other than displaying a timestamp with an unclear meaning, this is the current behavior |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
a ok |
19:20 |
thimbronion |
someone's gotta send the first message |
19:21 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
19:22 |
asciilifeform |
(ideally oughta send a rubbish -- or getdata -- as soon as added an at entry. that way can immediately see whether 'someone is home') |
| |
~ 36 minutes ~ |
19:58 |
jurov |
asciilifeform: access to rk http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=irwy |
19:58 |
jurov |
completely lost any interest, sorry |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
20:31 |
jurov |
and your bot was pinging me every day, so eventually started ignoring that |
20:34 |
asciilifeform |
ohai jurov |
20:35 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: can i persuade you to pick a successor & move the tbf www and the piggy to him ? |
20:35 |
jurov |
lol i have no idea about any possible successor |
20:36 |
jurov |
anyone wants to apply? |
20:36 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: i'll do it if no one else wants. |
20:37 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: i was about to set up a fresh www from my mirrored copy anyway ( didn't expect jurov to visit ) |
20:40 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: btw there's a good bit of trb work going on, e.g. billymg made a planetary noad crawler, whaack made a block explorer, cgra is digging for 0days |
20:42 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: and thimbronion implemented asciilifeform's 'pest' p2p net , asciilifeform aims to e.g. pipe trb comms over same eventually |
20:43 |
asciilifeform |
plenty of funstuff going on. i dun insist that jurov take an interest in same, necessarily, but would like to make an orderly continuation of tbf. |
20:44 |
shinohai |
^ agreed |
20:45 |
* |
asciilifeform would prefer not to also be the 1 to sit on the piggy, nominates signpost for this job, if the latter agrees, jurov plz give to him. but if not, asciilifeform. |
20:45 |
asciilifeform |
signpost aka trinque btw. |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
hosting will be supplied pro bono by asciilifeform (and possibly mirrors by e.g. shinohai , iirc he has an unofficial one going already) |
20:48 |
shinohai |
I do mine is at http://btc.info.gf/mirrors/therealbitcoin.org/ |
20:48 |
asciilifeform |
billymg BingoBoingo cgra dpb mats shinohai signpost thimbronion whaack ( afaik all trb users/experimenters presently tuned in ) 'please speak nao or 4evah hold your peace' |
| |
↖ ↖ |
20:48 |
cdd |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064328 << For that very reason I'm making my "exit" if you can call it that ASAP. Taking my losses as a blessing, thank you punkman, asciilifeform. |
20:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 11:16:22 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064267 << understand that the worst thing that happens in case like this aint that you lose , but that you ~win~, and get impression that shitcoinism is 'promising' and worth of serious time/dough |
20:48 |
signpost |
nah, would rather not hold these coins. |
20:48 |
asciilifeform |
ok, asciilifeform will fall on this grenade, if jurov agrees |
20:48 |
jurov |
which one? the piggy? |
20:48 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
(the other grenades asciilifeform already prev. agreed to fall on) |
20:50 |
jurov |
okay |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: do you have your wot pgpkey ? |
20:50 |
jurov |
yes |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
ok 1s |
20:53 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=BzxJ |
20:58 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: as said in the pgpgram, would like to pick up therealbitcoin.org dnsism also, if there's a way to do it |
20:59 |
asciilifeform |
( i've e.g. a 'namecheap' acct. where various other dnsisms operated by asciilifeform live ) |
21:01 |
jurov |
http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Cr4s |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
ty jurov |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: worx, let's do both of these |
21:01 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: lemme know what if anyffin you need from my end for no.2 |
21:08 |
dpb |
what's in need of my attention? |
21:08 |
mats |
whats the point of taking the treasury if you're not going to use it to pay bills |
21:08 |
asciilifeform |
mats: if tbf comes to have bills, will use it. |
21:08 |
mats |
hosting? |
21:09 |
asciilifeform |
mats: most obviously |
21:09 |
asciilifeform |
mats: it aint good imho that 90% of the noades live in asciilifeform's rack atm. |
21:09 |
cdd |
Huh, so that's why you guys don't like [btc.info.gf/blog/mircea-popescu-or-how-to-spread-500-words-of-liquishit-and-say-nothing.html][mircea popescu]. |
| |
↖ |
21:10 |
dpb |
ah, yeah go ahead and give it to asciilifeform, i guess. keep him from starving |
21:10 |
asciilifeform |
dpb: i have no intention of eating it, lol |
21:10 |
asciilifeform |
dpb: in fact very much hoping to eventually persuade another participant to live with it ( mats, shinohai , dpb ? ) |
21:12 |
shinohai |
asciilifeform: will discuss in a bit, must be mobile a few but did obtain login for www from jurov |
21:12 |
dpb |
if you are about to pick one of them, then pick me instead |
21:12 |
asciilifeform |
until then i'ma do the old jurov thing, issue quarterly reports, etc |
21:12 |
mats |
lol |
21:13 |
asciilifeform |
dpb: would like to take care of the www 1st, is most pressing issue imho |
21:13 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064469 <<< Engaged in sme light trolling, nothing really says "I dislike". |
21:13 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 16:09:56 cdd: Huh, so that's why you guys don't like [btc.info.gf/blog/mircea-popescu-or-how-to-spread-500-words-of-liquishit-and-say-nothing.html][mircea popescu]. |
21:13 |
mats |
i'm not really a neutral party |
21:13 |
asciilifeform |
mats: that's the magick, we don't really have 'neutral party', we had jurov but he's retiring |
21:14 |
mats |
would prefer to see tbf dissolved, its funds distributed to coinbr creditors, and then contribute to a new treasury |
21:14 |
dpb |
maybe i can buy another rockchip sub and put it there |
21:14 |
asciilifeform |
mats: i recall |
21:14 |
cdd |
shinohai: Reading between the lines. How else can you interpret it? |
21:14 |
dpb |
uh yeah no that plan by mats gets a hard no from me |
21:14 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
21:15 |
dpb |
i would sooner have the money go all to asciilifeform for him to retire from the mines |
21:15 |
mats |
this is the first mention i made of it |
21:15 |
dpb |
who even are you? |
21:16 |
cdd |
Excuse my ignorance, but who is jurov? And what 'neutral party'? |
21:16 |
dpb |
last i recall, you were not on speaking terms with the republic |
21:16 |
asciilifeform |
cdd: jurov is the (retiring) treasurer of tbf. |
21:16 |
mats |
the treasury is possibly one of several reasons why coinbr is in default |
21:17 |
dpb |
the two things have nothing to do with each other |
21:17 |
cdd |
Oh ok. |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
mats: y'mean jurov's prevention of mp's attempted theft of the treasury ? |
21:18 |
dpb |
i am of the opinion mp didn't do wrong when it comes to bitcoin things |
21:19 |
mats |
most of that money was mp's to begin with, along with thenewdeal |
21:19 |
dpb |
i don't trust the people who claim he did wrong |
21:19 |
asciilifeform |
mats: it stopped being mp's when he donated it. |
21:19 |
asciilifeform |
dpb: you oughta negrate asciilifeform , in that case, and refrain from using his services |
21:20 |
asciilifeform |
anyways the fate of the old piggy is 100% up to jurov . |
21:20 |
dpb |
you claim he took from you? what? |
21:20 |
dpb |
you two had a philisophical falling out, i thought |
21:20 |
jurov |
asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=RvnC |
21:21 |
jurov |
mats thinks i should cover his coinbr balances which mp took |
21:21 |
asciilifeform |
danke schon, jurov |
21:22 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: lemme know what you need to throw the domain |
21:27 |
asciilifeform |
mats, dpb , et al : asciilifeform doesn't want to eat the coin, nor ftr would it make a substantial diff. to his position if he did, and iirc explained in painful detail why, is why volunteered for this job. and as soon as one of the tuned in folx who i can rely on not to eat it, agrees, will ask him to sit on the grenade in my place. |
21:31 |
mats |
the lack of eating isn't really the problem though |
21:31 |
mats |
it is this monstrous sum today because there's never been a plan to spend it on trb expenses |
21:32 |
mats |
i'm not proposing the alternative is to give it to me, either |
21:32 |
asciilifeform |
mats: the only trb expense currently foreseen is some additional noad hosting. |
21:32 |
mats |
what's the big idea, it gets passed from hand to fist until someone gets hit by a bus? |
21:32 |
asciilifeform |
there's imho a dire need of serious boxes. |
21:32 |
asciilifeform |
mats: until pianos and anvils fall on us all, how else |
21:33 |
jurov |
mats you had enough time to actually join tbf and propose uses for the "monstrous sum" |
21:33 |
mats |
correct |
21:33 |
asciilifeform |
btw if mats or anyone else has concrete ideas re 'uses' i'm all ears. |
21:33 |
dpb |
i withdraw all comments, i don't care what is done, it's none of my business |
21:33 |
asciilifeform |
( for values of 'uses' that aint 'hey i'd like to buy 9000 sandwiches' lol ) |
21:34 |
asciilifeform |
dpb: i pinged you because you were at various times involved w/ trb work. apologies if you didn't want to be pinged. |
21:36 |
jurov |
asciilifeform see dm. there are are 3 domains therealbitcoin.com/org and thebitcoin.foundation, do you want all three or let some expire |
21:36 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 'not using' has its advantages -- picture, if we go long enuff w/out drowning or flattened by piano, at some pt we can buy a planetoid and all live on same. incl. jurov if he can put up with our company. |
21:36 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: all 3 plz |
21:36 |
mats |
and how is a planetoid tbf business? |
21:37 |
asciilifeform |
mats: the 1nm fab on the planetoid will be the tbf biz, lol |
21:37 |
asciilifeform |
point is, there's no mad hurry |
21:38 |
mats |
seems to me tbf failed, and isn't justifying its continuation |
21:38 |
asciilifeform |
mats: i disagree. |
21:38 |
mats |
it doesn't have the political power to direct changes in bitcoin |
| |
↖ |
21:38 |
mats |
a new cast of the power rangers has taproot |
21:39 |
asciilifeform |
mats: i can't speak for you, but my trb noades work a++ to this day. and so does billymg's crawler. etc |
21:39 |
billymg |
re: uses for piggy, i'd very much like to have 'signrawtransactionwithkey' in trb, as well as the ability to add "watch only" addresses. the addition of these two features would make it useful as an online/offline solution |
21:39 |
asciilifeform |
i dun give half a fuck about 'taproot' etc. and never will. |
| |
↖ |
21:39 |
billymg |
if piggy could be tapped for "feature bounty" |
21:39 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: indeed would be useful. |
21:39 |
billymg |
perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin |
| |
↖ ↖ |
21:40 |
* |
asciilifeform amenable to feature bounties etc |
21:40 |
asciilifeform |
the #1 missing feature, however, imho is the big one. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
21:40 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 12:03:21 asciilifeform: ... but to make the proper replacement. |
21:41 |
asciilifeform |
i'd be willing to disburse 100% of the piggy for bounties if it gave us ^ . |
21:41 |
asciilifeform |
the main problem there is shortage of good hands. |
21:42 |
asciilifeform |
in keeping with elementary decency, asciilifeform can obv. no longer nominate ~self~ for bounties. |
21:45 |
PeterL |
perhaps tbf could have a multiperson bounty commity that could approve dispersals, including to asciilifeform? |
| |
↖ |
21:45 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064539 << or perhaps whaack too, since he's done some recent digging in there |
21:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 16:39:45 billymg: perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin |
21:45 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064532 << whole point of trb as i see it is not to direct change but to ensure the thing *doesn't* change |
21:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-09 16:38:44 mats: it doesn't have the political power to direct changes in bitcoin |
21:45 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
21:46 |
billymg |
while the power rangers wank with "move fast and break things" |
21:46 |
asciilifeform |
correct. |
21:46 |
asciilifeform |
hence why per asciilifeform , tbf succeeded to date beyond anyone's ability to imagine. |
21:47 |
asciilifeform |
trb still worx!!! motherfuckers. |
21:48 |
asciilifeform |
and at some pt we'll have an ada trb, without bugs, slowdowns, GB of liquishit deps. |
21:49 |
asciilifeform |
and if tonight asciilifeform is flattened by a piano, it'll still happen. because it is the Right Thing. |
21:50 |
asciilifeform |
exactly like e.g. pest happened, and largely w/out direct involvement of asciilifeform . |
21:51 |
asciilifeform |
that's the diff. b/w mp-style egomaniacal sand castles and the Right Thing. |
| |
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~ |
23:05 |
thimbronion |
How much exactly is in tbf coffer?? |
23:07 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: see prev.thrd |
23:07 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-10-31 22:51:20 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-31#1062555 << fwiw it hasn't moved anywhere. |
23:09 |
thimbronion |
Oh ok. More than I remembered. |
23:09 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: the other 2 items are 2 dnsism, we're in the process of moving'em |
23:14 |
asciilifeform |
jurov agreed to keep the www box going for a spell, but i'ma relieve him of this burden asap, on next trip to the dc cage will set up a new one. |
23:16 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion et al : i'm thinking of setting up a shamir split for the piggy, but it'll have to be later, lotsa more pressing work atm. |
| |
↖ |
23:17 |
* |
asciilifeform notices that we dun have an existing proggy for this, lol |
23:27 |
thimbronion |
trilema.com redirecting to https://www.bisecthosting.com/hostedby.php for me |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: odd, loads here |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
no spam redirect as far as i can see |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
betcha it's paid up for 1000yrs |
23:30 |
thimbronion |
hrm. loads on my ipnoe |
23:30 |
asciilifeform |
upstack : jurov moved to asciilifeform therealbitcoin.com, therealbitcoin.org, thebitcoin.foundation dnsisms. ty again jurov . |
23:31 |
thimbronion |
ah ok: I had hardcoded the ip to 91.218.246.33 |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
23:31 |
thimbronion |
I guess new host? |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
lol loox like somebody moved it to a cheaper (vps) graveyard |
23:32 |
asciilifeform |
(historically mp had the thing in moscow, on formidable pipe) |
23:36 |
asciilifeform |
pretty lulzy imho. |
23:36 |
asciilifeform |
i'd'vethunk srsly it was paid up until sun burns out. |
23:38 |
asciilifeform |
new tomb, in... ukristan, lol |
| |
↖ |
23:39 |
asciilifeform |
Хмельницкая область. |
23:41 |
asciilifeform |
grade-a, loox like, spamhosting, eats btc, etc |
23:41 |
asciilifeform |
mebbe i'ma put a noad there. |
23:42 |
asciilifeform |
the shop does appear to offer actual irons. tho no mention of colo. |