Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2021-11-08 | 2021-11-10 →
00:49 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064151 << how is it possible to understand "tokens" if you don't understand bitcoin
00:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 14:57:18 cdd: I have a limited understanding of Bitcoin, but I have a somewhat decent understanding of "tokenomics" and other abstract shitcoin biz.
00:50 punkman sort of like having a decent understanding of calculus, without understanding basic algebra
00:52 cdd punkman: Well, I mean that in a comparison. I know more about shitcoins than I do about bitcoin itself. Ask me to write a basic blockchain and I'll have no idea where to start. I understand limited things abstractly, but I have no real knowledge of their implementation.
00:53 cdd I'm a complete noob in a sense. I can watch candles go up and down, that's about it.
00:55 cdd Jack of all trades, master of nothing. Don't expect much from me.
00:56 punkman this is the hope of shitcoin peddlers, you have a "decent understanding" without "knowledge of implementation", and then they can handwave the grim realities of their shitware away
00:57 cdd Well, I assure you I'm not here to peddle shitcoins. The loopix stuff was only something I'd heard of elsewhere and brought up in relation to pest.
01:00 cdd If I was here to shill crap, it's all I'd be talking about after establishing some sense of rapport.
01:01 punkman no, I mean that's how you are being "peddled to", not that you are doing it
01:03 cdd Ah I see, you suggest that I gain an intrinsic understanding of these things (implementation) in order to prevent myself being scammed.
01:03 cdd I completely agree.
01:03 cdd I've only put money into one shitcoin/altcoin because of it's tokenomics.
01:04 cdd Even with a surface level understanding of it, perhaps it was a mistake.
01:04 punkman which one is that?
01:04 cdd Safemoon.
01:04 cdd It has a 10% burn, 50% of which is distributed among all holders.
01:05 cdd The other is to a burn wallet that devs don't have access to. Their contract code is on the github, I had a read and it seems pretty sound.
01:06 cdd It makes sense, but it's inherently flawed and will always be an asset, not a currency.
01:07 cdd So in the crypto rat-race it's just another shitcoin.
01:10 punkman "SafeMoon multiplied rapidly in value after a wave of celebrity endorsements,[10] including from rapper Lil' Yachty, YouTuber Logan Paul, and sports blogger Dave Portnoy."
01:10 punkman heh
01:10 cdd Oh, I didn't know about that. Cringe.
01:11 cdd It's got a reddit page that's just a cringe shitstorm.
01:12 punkman why would you use/hold Safemoon, instead of Binance coin?
01:12 cdd The burn.
01:12 cdd I made 1mil tokens in the recent pump.
01:12 cdd Because of that 5% distribution.
01:12 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064224 <<< for the love of Satan what else do you expect to find on reddit?
01:12 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 20:11:18 cdd: It's got a reddit page that's just a cringe shitstorm.
01:13 cdd shinohai: pron.
01:14 shinohai I mean, if you like cuck pr0n .... to each their own.
01:14 cdd I don't use plebbit.
01:14 cdd I'd like to point that out, I don't use dickscord either (though I did for a while. It's a generational thing)
01:16 cdd My main interest is in Safemoon's tokenomics, because it was the first coin to come up with a distributed burn (from my knowledge)
01:17 cdd If there have been more beforehand, excuse my ignorance.
01:17 punkman it's not a burn if you are getting it
01:17 cdd 5% burn, 5% dist.
01:17 cdd So eh, I guess.
01:17 punkman says the other 5% goes in "liquidity pool"
01:18 cdd No, a burn wallet. It's gone, locked away permanently and cannot be retrieved.
01:18 cdd 0x000000000...01
01:18 punkman anyway, these "tokenomics" are variation of "ponzi scheme"
01:19 cdd I'm aware.
01:20 cdd It's an uneven distribution, proportional to the number of tokens you hold.
01:20 cdd So someone with a shit tonne of tokens, gets more of a share from each distribution. It's market incentive for something that holds no intrinsic value.
01:21 cdd That's why it's an asset.
01:22 cdd My thought is that if you wanted a currency, why not have Universal Basic Income based off a decentralized distribution. That way the tokens hold their value in distribution because you're not "printing more money" so to speak.
01:22 punkman if you think it's "ponzi scheme", how can you say it's an asset
01:25 cdd It's an asset up until it's not. That's when I make exit and watch the ponzi collapse. Because I'm a longer-term holder I've been gaining reflections as the market moves. When it finally does it's huge pump I will have made more than the +10% gain needed for an exit.
01:27 cdd Because there's that 10% on every transaction, I loose 10% when I exit. All the people at the top of the pump are apart of the ponzi because they won't have made the 10%.
01:27 punkman ah "asset" in shitcoin jargon then. that's fine, punkman understands appeal of being degenerate gambler
01:30 cdd I have to go now. Be well punkman.
~ 5 hours 47 minutes ~
07:17 cdd $ticker
07:17 cdd $help
07:17 cdd !!help
07:17 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
07:18 cdd $ticker BTC USD
~ 22 minutes ~
07:40 cdd http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064252 << Why do you say that?
07:40 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 20:27:46 punkman: ah "asset" in shitcoin jargon then. that's fine, punkman understands appeal of being degenerate gambler
07:42 cdd I'm not one of those robinhood weenies who can't take their eyes off the charts for 45 minutes. I look it it ~1 once a week, if I don't forget.
07:43 cdd s/it/at/
07:45 cdd I wouldn't not say I've taken a gamble, but I'm not putting anything else into it and I'm certainly not basing my future on where it goes.
07:51 cdd Though if you find fault in my thinking, correct me. I do not wish to fall prey to arrogance like the fool.
~ 22 minutes ~
08:13 cdd asciilifeform: Been reading this article on your historic gentoo distfiles. I was reading some of the comments, specifically the reply to an "anonymous" user. I think I get what you mean now.
08:22 punkman cdd, in my thinking, gambling on scam/ponzi/game-with-very-bad-odds = degenerate, gambling on blackjack = more wholesome. but you are right, it's also a matter of how much money one is putting in and how obsessed one is
08:23 cdd punkman: I've put in a little over $700 AUD. Which (thinking about it) is too much. I did so over a period of about 3 months.
08:25 cdd I intended to sit on it for a few years.
08:26 cdd It's the only cryptocurrency I've put hard-earned cash into, mistake?
08:26 cdd Erm. That could be interpreted wrong; It's the only cryptocurrency I've put anything into.
08:27 punkman if it entertains you, who's to say it's a mistake
08:30 cdd Well, couldn't that value be stored in bitcoin instead?
08:45 punkman would be prudent to have investment budget higher than gambling allowance
08:53 punkman ponzinomics from a different angle: https://hyiplogs.com/ - 27,760 items in database - 355 still paying
08:56 * cdd holds back puke
08:57 cdd point made.
~ 5 hours 23 minutes ~
14:20 billymg thimbronion: i'm having trouble connecting to blatta this morning, i'm getting Error(464) in my IRC client
14:21 billymg can you see if my bot is connected? it would've reconnected this morning also
14:22 thimbronion billymg: your bot is connected
14:22 billymg thimbronion: weird! i saw your test message on my terminal here too
14:23 billymg and just saw shinohai's message, which the logger picked up: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000067
14:24 billymg but i can't speak (from my irc client) in #pest
14:24 shinohai ah werd
14:24 shinohai I was gonna reply to PeterL 's message and noticed logger didn
14:24 thimbronion billymg: hrm - maybe a port issue?
14:24 shinohai 't catch it
14:24 billymg thimbronion: this is how i start blatta: `./blatta --port 61474 --password ****`
14:26 shinohai billymg: you dont run with `--port=61474` ?
14:26 * shinohai has no idea about password flag, hasn't used ....
14:27 thimbronion billymg: I have likewise not used the password flag
14:27 billymg was working yesterday, lemme try without pass
14:28 thimbronion billymg: just sent you a pest dm
14:30 billymg thimbronion: sent you one too, don't see yours
~ 26 minutes ~
14:56 asciilifeform billymg: are you behind nat like asciilifeform was ?
14:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 12:18:00 asciilifeform: thimbronion: it's behind a nat (with 13337 inbound routed correctly to inside)
14:57 asciilifeform incidentally, thimbronion et al, i had the thought that if 'rubbish' packet is sent at last 1/s to ea. peer, the 'ephemeral' port will remain open.
14:58 asciilifeform this may be the simplest solution to nat.
14:58 asciilifeform (esp. since sending rubbish was already part of spec, as an option)
14:58 asciilifeform *at least 1/s
14:59 thimbronion asciilifeform: no objection. Can customize interval for your own nat's random settings.
15:01 asciilifeform afaik 1/s is sufficient errywhere. but prolly oughta test empirically.
15:07 asciilifeform thimbronion: imho best way to implement rubbish is a 'synchronous mode', where sends e.g. n msg/s to ea. peer, and if there's a payload, it 'catches the bus'
15:08 thimbronion asciilifeform: what exactly is being synchronized?
15:08 asciilifeform thimbronion: the outgoing 'transmitter' synced with the 'n msg/s' mechanism
15:09 asciilifeform i.e. the frequency of packet emission is unrelated to the frequency of actual payload transmission
15:09 thimbronion seems more like in this case there's an asynchronous background thread checking for messages in the message queue and sending rubbish if there's nothing there.
15:10 asciilifeform prolly >1 equiv. way to implement this
15:10 asciilifeform not having yet studied thimbronion's prototype, cannot say which is simplest necessarily
15:18 thimbronion I'm just using asynchronous to denote the relationship between the user submission of a message and the actual transmission of the message.
15:18 thimbronion synchronous to me would imply that a submitted message is sent immediately
15:19 asciilifeform yea ideally wouldn't be 'immediately'
~ 39 minutes ~
15:58 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064266 << imho aint nuffin wrong w/ gambling, so long as you realize that's what you're doing; and if you aint luring others to get cleaned out
15:58 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 03:22:30 punkman: cdd, in my thinking, gambling on scam/ponzi/game-with-very-bad-odds = degenerate, gambling on blackjack = more wholesome. but you are right, it's also a matter of how much money one is putting in and how obsessed one is
16:00 asciilifeform ( observe that even 'very successful' ponzi artists generally don't end well -- ponzi himself, mavrodi, even mp, i'm not aware of even one who 'lived happily ever after' )
16:01 signpost deranging one's model of reality by lying has unavoidable cost.
16:01 asciilifeform aaha.
16:01 asciilifeform observe that it wasn't because the victims ate'em.
16:06 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064221 << 'lil'yachty' ?! almost caricature-grade lul
16:06 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 20:10:06 punkman: "SafeMoon multiplied rapidly in value after a wave of celebrity endorsements,[10] including from rapper Lil' Yachty, YouTuber Logan Paul, and sports blogger Dave Portnoy."
16:08 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064203 << even worse, is arguably like trying to study art of salesmanship by reading nigerian 419 spamola.
16:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 19:50:15 punkman: sort of like having a decent understanding of calculus, without understanding basic algebra
16:10 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-08#1064250 << generally it is precisely the folx who think 'i can outsmart the con man' who lose their shirts, historically.
16:10 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-08 20:25:52 cdd: It's an asset up until it's not. That's when I make exit and watch the ponzi collapse. Because I'm a longer-term holder I've been gaining reflections as the market moves. When it finally does it's huge pump I will have made more than the +10% gain needed for an exit.
16:10 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-10 20:39:04 asciilifeform: there was an interesting talk (linked iirc by mats!) maybe in '14 ? about how scammers in traditional settings (i.e. 'numbers games' in back alleys) relied on this sin, where folx believe 'yes, is scam, but i can outsmart the scammer'
16:10 asciilifeform they're the ones who end up pawning their house etc. to get their 'sure win'
16:14 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064265 << i dare say that thrd quite exhaustively covered 'anonymism'
16:14 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 03:13:39 cdd: asciilifeform: Been reading this article on your historic gentoo distfiles. I was reading some of the comments, specifically the reply to an "anonymous" user. I think I get what you mean now.
16:16 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064267 << understand that the worst thing that happens in case like this aint that you lose , but that you ~win~, and get impression that shitcoinism is 'promising' and worth of serious time/dough
16:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 03:23:58 cdd: punkman: I've put in a little over $700 AUD. Which (thinking about it) is too much. I did so over a period of about 3 months.
16:17 asciilifeform you won't win enuff to buy the proverbial whore island retirement. but quite likely to win enuff to turn into habitual 'investor' in 'assets' and get over9000x stupider. time-tested pattern.
~ 15 minutes ~
16:33 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
16:33 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $66759.18
16:33 asciilifeform !w poll
16:33 watchglass Polling 17 nodes...
16:33 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
16:33 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
16:33 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.030s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708945
16:33 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
16:33 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Could not connect!
16:33 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945
16:33 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.052s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708943
16:33 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708945
16:33 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 (Operator: asciilifeform)
16:33 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.151s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=708945 (Operator: whaack)
16:33 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.137s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945 (Operator: asciilifeform)
16:33 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.225s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945
16:33 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.264s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945
16:33 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945
16:33 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.586s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=708945
16:34 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
16:35 asciilifeform ^ at this rate loox like we are gonna need a new trb www, sadly
16:35 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-03 13:31:04 asciilifeform: upstack, trb org dns still points to devnull
16:35 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
16:35 asciilifeform the 1 in the default trb hellostring is kaput ( jurov ?!! )
16:35 asciilifeform 3wks+ nao.
16:36 shinohai Entirety of tbf seems lost at sea aside from asciilifeform
16:37 asciilifeform shinohai: jurov's box ( as well as the 1 w/ the src viewer, provided by asciilifeform pro bono) still up. but whoknows for how long.
16:38 asciilifeform for nao i rec to link to asciilifeform's mirror until we get a proper replacement up.
16:38 shinohai If jurov resurfaces and there is general consensus, am happy to do whatever to keep tbf www alive.
16:38 asciilifeform a++
16:39 * shinohai even thought of running trb pest station/guest chan
16:39 asciilifeform shinohai: imho 1 obv. desirable future pestism is a way to tunnel trb via same
16:39 shinohai Since my efforts with fleanode failed because of their insistence on ssl.
16:40 asciilifeform shinohai: we have many headaches, but fleanode aint one, anymoar, lol
16:42 shinohai I'm really liking pest/blatta .... and have plenty of time to dedicate to debugging - so any tuned in that want to peer or test, feel free to DM me gpgram with keyz
16:43 asciilifeform shinohai: see whether you can sew in the rubbish sender. would be quite helpful imho
16:44 shinohai Was just talking about that on testnet, trying to figure out a way to populate the nicklist so active users show up.
16:45 shinohai (It's a bit maddening to not know who is online)
16:47 asciilifeform shinohai: prolly the cleanest way to do it is to consider all peers from whom received a packet in past 10min 'online', others -- not
16:48 asciilifeform ( this naturally only makes sense if we have a min. freq. for rubbish msg )
16:49 asciilifeform ( alternatively, once we have 'getdata' , station can simply send getdata's and who responds, is 'online' )
16:50 asciilifeform a good short-term kludge imho would be to consider all peers in wot 'online' so that irc client will at least give tab-completion, the current behaviour is quite frustrating
16:57 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064356 << ftr i wrote to jurov. 0 answr. (maybe someone has a newer contact for him?)
16:57 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 11:36:49 shinohai: Entirety of tbf seems lost at sea aside from asciilifeform
16:57 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-03 13:51:54 asciilifeform: text of msg ftr.
17:00 asciilifeform shinohai: cgra has been doing a++ trb work, possibly would like to be involved.
17:02 asciilifeform imho the troo mission of tbf should not be to merely keep the ancient cpp turd on life support,
17:03 asciilifeform ... but to make the proper replacement.
17:03 dulapbot Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
17:03 asciilifeform as asciilifeform advocated for 6+y nao.
17:04 asciilifeform the cpp turd is a blackhole that could absorb a nearly infinite qty of manpower and still remain a turd.
17:05 asciilifeform the quality approaches mswin-level (and that's only speaking of the trb src per se, not even to mention the idjit deps -- boost, bdb, openssl horror )
17:06 shinohai PeterL: http://btc.info.gf/paste/644569@raw
17:07 PeterL shinohai: got your message
~ 19 minutes ~
17:26 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064372 << I think this is best, so you can click on any user in WoT and attempt to send direct message
17:26 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 11:50:20 asciilifeform: a good short-term kludge imho would be to consider all peers in wot 'online' so that irc client will at least give tab-completion, the current behaviour is quite frustrating
~ 20 minutes ~
17:47 punkman heh https://twitter.com/JackShawhan/status/1457951413368016899
17:49 PeterL heh, tried to add your handle again and it looks like it crashed the program
17:49 PeterL ^ message to shinohai
17:50 shinohai PeterL: were you running with debug flag? Any output?
17:52 PeterL sqlite3.IntegrityError: UNIQUE constraint failed: handles.handle << I think this was because I tried to add the same handle twice
17:53 PeterL I have to go for now, but I will try to get it going again later
17:58 shinohai kk
~ 23 minutes ~
18:21 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000152 << all 3
18:21 asciilifeform (hm that bot only on pestnet nao?)
18:22 asciilifeform scratch that, apparently at some pt a packet actually made it outta 13337, hm.
18:22 * asciilifeform wonders how.
18:23 asciilifeform aaapparently the default ephemeral range (by rfc6056 ? tho iirc it only covers tcp normally...?) is 1024–65535 . so could be by pure chance.
18:29 thimbronion asciilifeform: the earliest record in shinohai's at probably is from when he manually added your ip:port - may hever have received a packet from that port
18:31 cgra billymg: ty for the pest logger, wouldn't wanna miss much pest tech talk before possibly joining the fun myself too.
18:33 cgra asciilifeform: did your test trb box, by any chance, keep a historical ram usage record? if did, how much was the peak in last 45mins or so?
18:34 billymg asciilifeform: yes, currently only on pest net. i guess i should run another process to have it in here for echoing pest lines
18:36 asciilifeform cgra: unfortunately i don't have such a record on either atm. eyeball shows ~1.5G ea. currently.
18:36 asciilifeform thimbronion: that would make sense.
18:37 cgra asciilifeform: ok
18:38 billymg latest line in #pest: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000156
18:38 bitbot (pest) 2021-11-09 shinohai: yes in "wot" single entry
18:38 asciilifeform oh hey neato
18:39 billymg for now i'll just keep an eye on it and restart when those db timeouts occur
18:39 asciilifeform ty billymg
18:46 asciilifeform thimbronion: i may have already said this, but the timestamps in 'wot' should only update when a valid packet is ~received~ ftr.
18:46 * asciilifeform aiming to get a chance to actually look at the coad in coming days
18:51 billymg cgra: np, glad it can be of some use to you
18:52 asciilifeform afaik we've the world's 1st proper p2p chat !
18:53 asciilifeform even if at 'spreading works!' level atm
19:00 thimbronion asciilifeform: yes you mentioned that yes. But shouldn't something be shown in an at listing for address that hasn't yet received any packets?
19:00 asciilifeform blank, ideally
19:01 thimbronion blank timestamp?
19:01 asciilifeform aha
19:16 asciilifeform thimbronion: this of course for display purpose only. (if station only has 1 at entry for a peer, and you're transmitting dm to him (or broadcast) , oughta use that entry, even if nothing yet received from it. otherwise you have '2 trains waiting'.)
19:16 dulapbot (trilema) 2015-12-24 asciilifeform: 'if two trains meet one another on a track, neither shall move until the other has passed.' (supposedly from a 1880s american state law)
19:19 thimbronion asciilifeform: indeed other than displaying a timestamp with an unclear meaning, this is the current behavior
19:19 asciilifeform a ok
19:20 thimbronion someone's gotta send the first message
19:21 asciilifeform aha
19:22 asciilifeform (ideally oughta send a rubbish -- or getdata -- as soon as added an at entry. that way can immediately see whether 'someone is home')
~ 36 minutes ~
19:58 jurov asciilifeform: access to rk http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=irwy
19:58 jurov completely lost any interest, sorry
~ 33 minutes ~
20:31 jurov and your bot was pinging me every day, so eventually started ignoring that
20:34 asciilifeform ohai jurov
20:35 asciilifeform jurov: can i persuade you to pick a successor & move the tbf www and the piggy to him ?
20:35 jurov lol i have no idea about any possible successor
20:36 jurov anyone wants to apply?
20:36 asciilifeform jurov: i'll do it if no one else wants.
20:37 asciilifeform jurov: i was about to set up a fresh www from my mirrored copy anyway ( didn't expect jurov to visit )
20:40 asciilifeform jurov: btw there's a good bit of trb work going on, e.g. billymg made a planetary noad crawler, whaack made a block explorer, cgra is digging for 0days
20:42 asciilifeform jurov: and thimbronion implemented asciilifeform's 'pest' p2p net , asciilifeform aims to e.g. pipe trb comms over same eventually
20:43 asciilifeform plenty of funstuff going on. i dun insist that jurov take an interest in same, necessarily, but would like to make an orderly continuation of tbf.
20:44 shinohai ^ agreed
20:45 * asciilifeform would prefer not to also be the 1 to sit on the piggy, nominates signpost for this job, if the latter agrees, jurov plz give to him. but if not, asciilifeform.
20:45 asciilifeform signpost aka trinque btw.
20:46 asciilifeform hosting will be supplied pro bono by asciilifeform (and possibly mirrors by e.g. shinohai , iirc he has an unofficial one going already)
20:48 shinohai I do mine is at http://btc.info.gf/mirrors/therealbitcoin.org/
20:48 asciilifeform billymg BingoBoingo cgra dpb mats shinohai signpost thimbronion whaack ( afaik all trb users/experimenters presently tuned in ) 'please speak nao or 4evah hold your peace'
20:48 cdd http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064328 << For that very reason I'm making my "exit" if you can call it that ASAP. Taking my losses as a blessing, thank you punkman, asciilifeform.
20:48 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 11:16:22 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064267 << understand that the worst thing that happens in case like this aint that you lose , but that you ~win~, and get impression that shitcoinism is 'promising' and worth of serious time/dough
20:48 signpost nah, would rather not hold these coins.
20:48 asciilifeform ok, asciilifeform will fall on this grenade, if jurov agrees
20:48 jurov which one? the piggy?
20:48 asciilifeform aha
20:49 asciilifeform (the other grenades asciilifeform already prev. agreed to fall on)
20:50 jurov okay
20:50 asciilifeform jurov: do you have your wot pgpkey ?
20:50 jurov yes
20:50 asciilifeform ok 1s
20:53 asciilifeform jurov: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=BzxJ
20:58 asciilifeform jurov: as said in the pgpgram, would like to pick up therealbitcoin.org dnsism also, if there's a way to do it
20:59 asciilifeform ( i've e.g. a 'namecheap' acct. where various other dnsisms operated by asciilifeform live )
21:01 jurov http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Cr4s
21:01 asciilifeform ty jurov
21:01 asciilifeform jurov: worx, let's do both of these
21:01 asciilifeform jurov: lemme know what if anyffin you need from my end for no.2
21:08 dpb what's in need of my attention?
21:08 mats whats the point of taking the treasury if you're not going to use it to pay bills
21:08 asciilifeform mats: if tbf comes to have bills, will use it.
21:08 mats hosting?
21:09 asciilifeform mats: most obviously
21:09 asciilifeform mats: it aint good imho that 90% of the noades live in asciilifeform's rack atm.
21:09 cdd Huh, so that's why you guys don't like [btc.info.gf/blog/mircea-popescu-or-how-to-spread-500-words-of-liquishit-and-say-nothing.html][mircea popescu].
21:10 dpb ah, yeah go ahead and give it to asciilifeform, i guess. keep him from starving
21:10 asciilifeform dpb: i have no intention of eating it, lol
21:10 asciilifeform dpb: in fact very much hoping to eventually persuade another participant to live with it ( mats, shinohai , dpb ? )
21:12 shinohai asciilifeform: will discuss in a bit, must be mobile a few but did obtain login for www from jurov
21:12 dpb if you are about to pick one of them, then pick me instead
21:12 asciilifeform until then i'ma do the old jurov thing, issue quarterly reports, etc
21:12 mats lol
21:13 asciilifeform dpb: would like to take care of the www 1st, is most pressing issue imho
21:13 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064469 <<< Engaged in sme light trolling, nothing really says "I dislike".
21:13 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 16:09:56 cdd: Huh, so that's why you guys don't like [btc.info.gf/blog/mircea-popescu-or-how-to-spread-500-words-of-liquishit-and-say-nothing.html][mircea popescu].
21:13 mats i'm not really a neutral party
21:13 asciilifeform mats: that's the magick, we don't really have 'neutral party', we had jurov but he's retiring
21:14 mats would prefer to see tbf dissolved, its funds distributed to coinbr creditors, and then contribute to a new treasury
21:14 dpb maybe i can buy another rockchip sub and put it there
21:14 asciilifeform mats: i recall
21:14 cdd shinohai: Reading between the lines. How else can you interpret it?
21:14 dpb uh yeah no that plan by mats gets a hard no from me
21:14 asciilifeform lol
21:15 dpb i would sooner have the money go all to asciilifeform for him to retire from the mines
21:15 mats this is the first mention i made of it
21:15 dpb who even are you?
21:16 cdd Excuse my ignorance, but who is jurov? And what 'neutral party'?
21:16 dpb last i recall, you were not on speaking terms with the republic
21:16 asciilifeform cdd: jurov is the (retiring) treasurer of tbf.
21:16 mats the treasury is possibly one of several reasons why coinbr is in default
21:17 dpb the two things have nothing to do with each other
21:17 cdd Oh ok.
21:17 asciilifeform mats: y'mean jurov's prevention of mp's attempted theft of the treasury ?
21:18 dpb i am of the opinion mp didn't do wrong when it comes to bitcoin things
21:19 mats most of that money was mp's to begin with, along with thenewdeal
21:19 dpb i don't trust the people who claim he did wrong
21:19 asciilifeform mats: it stopped being mp's when he donated it.
21:19 asciilifeform dpb: you oughta negrate asciilifeform , in that case, and refrain from using his services
21:20 asciilifeform anyways the fate of the old piggy is 100% up to jurov .
21:20 dpb you claim he took from you? what?
21:20 dpb you two had a philisophical falling out, i thought
21:20 jurov asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=RvnC
21:21 jurov mats thinks i should cover his coinbr balances which mp took
21:21 asciilifeform danke schon, jurov
21:22 asciilifeform jurov: lemme know what you need to throw the domain
21:27 asciilifeform mats, dpb , et al : asciilifeform doesn't want to eat the coin, nor ftr would it make a substantial diff. to his position if he did, and iirc explained in painful detail why, is why volunteered for this job. and as soon as one of the tuned in folx who i can rely on not to eat it, agrees, will ask him to sit on the grenade in my place.
21:31 mats the lack of eating isn't really the problem though
21:31 mats it is this monstrous sum today because there's never been a plan to spend it on trb expenses
21:32 mats i'm not proposing the alternative is to give it to me, either
21:32 asciilifeform mats: the only trb expense currently foreseen is some additional noad hosting.
21:32 mats what's the big idea, it gets passed from hand to fist until someone gets hit by a bus?
21:32 asciilifeform there's imho a dire need of serious boxes.
21:32 asciilifeform mats: until pianos and anvils fall on us all, how else
21:33 jurov mats you had enough time to actually join tbf and propose uses for the "monstrous sum"
21:33 mats correct
21:33 asciilifeform btw if mats or anyone else has concrete ideas re 'uses' i'm all ears.
21:33 dpb i withdraw all comments, i don't care what is done, it's none of my business
21:33 asciilifeform ( for values of 'uses' that aint 'hey i'd like to buy 9000 sandwiches' lol )
21:34 asciilifeform dpb: i pinged you because you were at various times involved w/ trb work. apologies if you didn't want to be pinged.
21:36 jurov asciilifeform see dm. there are are 3 domains therealbitcoin.com/org and thebitcoin.foundation, do you want all three or let some expire
21:36 asciilifeform mats: 'not using' has its advantages -- picture, if we go long enuff w/out drowning or flattened by piano, at some pt we can buy a planetoid and all live on same. incl. jurov if he can put up with our company.
21:36 asciilifeform jurov: all 3 plz
21:36 mats and how is a planetoid tbf business?
21:37 asciilifeform mats: the 1nm fab on the planetoid will be the tbf biz, lol
21:37 asciilifeform point is, there's no mad hurry
21:38 mats seems to me tbf failed, and isn't justifying its continuation
21:38 asciilifeform mats: i disagree.
21:38 mats it doesn't have the political power to direct changes in bitcoin
21:38 mats a new cast of the power rangers has taproot
21:39 asciilifeform mats: i can't speak for you, but my trb noades work a++ to this day. and so does billymg's crawler. etc
21:39 billymg re: uses for piggy, i'd very much like to have 'signrawtransactionwithkey' in trb, as well as the ability to add "watch only" addresses. the addition of these two features would make it useful as an online/offline solution
21:39 asciilifeform i dun give half a fuck about 'taproot' etc. and never will.
21:39 billymg if piggy could be tapped for "feature bounty"
21:39 asciilifeform billymg: indeed would be useful.
21:39 billymg perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin
21:40 * asciilifeform amenable to feature bounties etc
21:40 asciilifeform the #1 missing feature, however, imho is the big one.
21:40 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 12:03:21 asciilifeform: ... but to make the proper replacement.
21:41 asciilifeform i'd be willing to disburse 100% of the piggy for bounties if it gave us ^ .
21:41 asciilifeform the main problem there is shortage of good hands.
21:42 asciilifeform in keeping with elementary decency, asciilifeform can obv. no longer nominate ~self~ for bounties.
21:45 PeterL perhaps tbf could have a multiperson bounty commity that could approve dispersals, including to asciilifeform?
21:45 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064539 << or perhaps whaack too, since he's done some recent digging in there
21:45 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 16:39:45 billymg: perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin
21:45 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064532 << whole point of trb as i see it is not to direct change but to ensure the thing *doesn't* change
21:45 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-09 16:38:44 mats: it doesn't have the political power to direct changes in bitcoin
21:45 asciilifeform ^
21:46 billymg while the power rangers wank with "move fast and break things"
21:46 asciilifeform correct.
21:46 asciilifeform hence why per asciilifeform , tbf succeeded to date beyond anyone's ability to imagine.
21:47 asciilifeform trb still worx!!! motherfuckers.
21:48 asciilifeform and at some pt we'll have an ada trb, without bugs, slowdowns, GB of liquishit deps.
21:49 asciilifeform and if tonight asciilifeform is flattened by a piano, it'll still happen. because it is the Right Thing.
21:50 asciilifeform exactly like e.g. pest happened, and largely w/out direct involvement of asciilifeform .
21:51 asciilifeform that's the diff. b/w mp-style egomaniacal sand castles and the Right Thing.
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
23:05 thimbronion How much exactly is in tbf coffer??
23:07 asciilifeform thimbronion: see prev.thrd
23:07 dulapbot Logged on 2021-10-31 22:51:20 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-31#1062555 << fwiw it hasn't moved anywhere.
23:09 thimbronion Oh ok. More than I remembered.
23:09 asciilifeform thimbronion: the other 2 items are 2 dnsism, we're in the process of moving'em
23:14 asciilifeform jurov agreed to keep the www box going for a spell, but i'ma relieve him of this burden asap, on next trip to the dc cage will set up a new one.
23:16 asciilifeform thimbronion et al : i'm thinking of setting up a shamir split for the piggy, but it'll have to be later, lotsa more pressing work atm.
23:17 * asciilifeform notices that we dun have an existing proggy for this, lol
23:27 thimbronion trilema.com redirecting to https://www.bisecthosting.com/hostedby.php for me
23:29 asciilifeform thimbronion: odd, loads here
23:29 asciilifeform no spam redirect as far as i can see
23:29 asciilifeform betcha it's paid up for 1000yrs
23:30 thimbronion hrm. loads on my ipnoe
23:30 asciilifeform upstack : jurov moved to asciilifeform therealbitcoin.com, therealbitcoin.org, thebitcoin.foundation dnsisms. ty again jurov .
23:31 thimbronion ah ok: I had hardcoded the ip to 91.218.246.33
23:31 asciilifeform lol
23:31 thimbronion I guess new host?
23:31 asciilifeform lol loox like somebody moved it to a cheaper (vps) graveyard
23:32 asciilifeform (historically mp had the thing in moscow, on formidable pipe)
23:36 asciilifeform pretty lulzy imho.
23:36 asciilifeform i'd'vethunk srsly it was paid up until sun burns out.
23:38 asciilifeform new tomb, in... ukristan, lol
23:39 asciilifeform Хмельницкая область.
23:41 asciilifeform grade-a, loox like, spamhosting, eats btc, etc
23:41 asciilifeform mebbe i'ma put a noad there.
23:42 asciilifeform the shop does appear to offer actual irons. tho no mention of colo.
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