#asciilifeform | 2021-09-02

it's for postgres at the moment but other packages have asked for it too

01:00

actually the list in my rockchip doesn't contain all of the items from this list

01:00

Logged on 2021-08-29 15:03:51 asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform's /etc/portage/package.mask/systemd , for reference.

01:00

billymg: the 29 aug list is newer by almost 5y!

01:01

( asciilifeform assembled it 3w ago, lol )

01:01

asciilifeform: nice, and i've incorporated those into my local build now too

01:01

( the rk list originally started life on asciilifeform's x60 gentoo )

01:02

billymg: didja read the tmpfiles link ?

01:02

lemme find it again :

01:02

this one

01:02

Logged on 2021-08-05 15:41:05 asciilifeform: 'Get ride of systemd-tmpfiles'

01:04

ftr some of the items in the orig. ('rk') list -- redundant

01:05

( iirc e.g. the gnomisms are blocked by killing dbus and don't need own bullet )

01:05

doesn't hurt to list'em tho

01:05

asciilifeform: yeah, i followed that guide and used the linked ebuilds to rebuild openrc and emerge xorg-server

01:05

a++

01:05

btw if you need mesa in yer xorg, there's a patch

01:05

i don't currently have any tmpfiles packages installed, but postgres wants one

01:06

billymg: you may have to version-climb down until find one that doesn't

01:06

( alternatively use the --nodeps trick and see if in fact needs or not )

01:06

ah, right, i still keep forgetting about that

01:06

it's the single sharpest knife in the toolkit imho

01:10

lol it built with --nodeps

01:10

first try

01:10

bahahaha

01:10

see whether ~runs~ tho

01:10

( you may have to adjust knobs somewhere for temp dir or somesuch )

01:11

asciilifeform: btw also got gcc4.9.4 installed using the ebuild from dulap

01:12

a++

01:12

i dunno what the different variations mean though

01:12

interestingly asciilifeform found that he did not at any pt need to resort to >4.9.4 gcc in the hand-cranked 'modernization' of xorg process

01:13

( built the 10.x turd 'in case' but not had to use. or rather, the various obstacles which hit, were in fact not resolvable by using it, and in all cases rebuilt w/ classical in the end )

01:15

i'ma share the pill against the piece of shit which took the longest , tho not certain whether anyone needs :

01:16

if building 'mesa', will get barf, and the only cure appears to be this patch. place in /etc/portage/patches/media-libs/mesa-21.2.0_rc2/ (or adjust for other versions but not guaranteed..)

01:16

( possibly the need for this was an artifact of what version of binutils on the box )

01:17

at some pt fuckwads started listing linker deps out of order! evidently on some machine somewhere, this worx..

01:18

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-01#1055923 << gcc comes in two basic flavours : <5 and >=5 .

01:18

Logged on 2021-09-01 21:12:07 billymg: i dunno what the different variations mean though

01:19

the latter is fulla 'surprises'.

01:21

( including both silent, chronic, and spectacular bombs )

01:21

(trilema) 2019-04-22 asciilifeform: trinque: speaking moar from concrete than theoretical pov -- gcc5 has documented 'optimizations' that remove bounds checks

01:21

(trilema) 2019-01-19 asciilifeform: the gcc5+ gnomes, occupy selves with cranking out 'mandatory' kludges for intelism; removing backend support for vintage, marginally-sane archs (alpha, hitachi, etc); gluing-with-broken-glass various incompatibilities to prevent coad developed under 5+ from building under 4.x; inserting 'optimizations' that snake around naive cprogrammer attempts at bounds-constraint; and so forth.

01:21

(trilema) 2018-09-05 asciilifeform: upstack, https://archive.is/WMoLv (warning: entomologists only) << the how&why of uboot 'gcc5+ only' idjicy. tldr: gcc5 silently broke uboot on arm. so the latter was 'fixed' so as to... ONLY gcc5+. in the now-customary way.

01:23

asciilifeform: my gcc4.9.4 install seemed to come with a few sub-variants (see paste)

01:23

*

billymg bbl

01:23

*

asciilifeform not tried the supposed 'hardened' variants, cannot comment in detail

~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~

02:33

!. uptime

02:33

hrm

02:35

!. uptime

02:35

bitbot

billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m

~ 28 minutes ~

03:04

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-01#1055919 << works, at least can startup the server and connect with psql, not tested beyond that

03:04

Logged on 2021-09-01 21:10:22 asciilifeform: see whether ~runs~ tho

03:05

billymg: a++

03:09

asciilifeform: some weirdness with python2.7, was able to install it just fine, and eix shows it installed along with the 3.x version, but eselect-python won't recognize it

03:09

if i add it to python-exec.conf `eselect python list` shows it, but as (uninstalled)

03:15

billymg: i also noticed this; not fixed yet

03:27

asciilifeform: you might find this thread amusing. the broken english and overall tone reminded me of the 4chan "why you want rail for kalashnikov" meme

03:28

"Why chrome is still not dependency for openrc? - You still have time before election... " - posted nov 2, 2020

~ 21 minutes ~

03:50

aaha there's a buncha these

03:51

( see also )

03:51

Logged on 2021-08-29 20:57:14 asciilifeform: mostly consisting of 'well you still gotta have dbus and gtk3!!! or you don't get to www/emacs/xorg/udev/etc/etc/etc!!' and 'ok have this thing that in fact contains 95% of systemd src but ~we'll call it something else~'

03:53

'Eudev, elogind,opentmpfiles dont exist to make openrc (or runit or busybox or.... <Insert your preferred init>) like systemd.... They exist to allow people to not use systemd' >> lol, raft!

03:53

(trilema) 2016-08-18 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b

03:53

the solution to all of this nonsense is the same today as it was in '15 : extirpate poetteringism , with fire and sword.

03:53

wherever found.

03:55

'Сколько раз увидишь его, Столько раз его и убей!'(tm)(r)

03:56

( 'how many times you see him, that many times you must kill' )

~ 40 minutes ~

04:36

thimbronion: appears to work! at least, I'm in an IRC client connected to the thing.

04:36

but I can't see you if you're connected.

~ 1 hours 38 minutes ~

06:15

cgra

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1055643 << lolled

06:15

Logged on 2021-08-31 23:04:48 asciilifeform: signpost: i'd nod, but e.g. cgra in fact parachuted straight from mars with not 1 but 2 ffa bugs in pocket

~ 6 hours 33 minutes ~

12:48

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-01#1055730 << oh hey, congrats billymg

12:48

Logged on 2021-09-01 15:13:48 billymg: asciilifeform, shinohai: this version of chromium finally built on my dbus/systemd-free gentoo. the solution was to comment out the musl related patches in the ebuild and set the -system-icu USE flag. i'm a bit embarrassed that i didn't try commenting out the musl patches sooner since i'm not on a musl build but

12:49

In other news, building a fg was too hard for raw_avocado but made this instead: https://archive.is/RqHWw

~ 30 minutes ~

13:19

signpost: I can see in my logs that you joined #alcuin. I was in a different chan. I'm now in #alcuin.

13:23

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053915 << presence is not all that fleshed out yet.

13:23

http://www.contravex.com/2021/07/25/what-does-it-really-mean-to-be-a-sovereign-individual/

Logged on 2021-08-25 23:14:17 asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'tis funny, this is possibly the 1st case on asciilifeform's watch where proggy outran spec project !

~ 56 minutes ~

14:20

pete_rizzo_

14:20

pete_rizzo_

Cardboard confirmed

14:21

pete_rizzo_: Have you noticed your IQ dropping any since visiting that blog?

14:22

(My favourite from above lined shit? "if you’re booing Erik Voorhees,ii how badly have you lost the plot?")

14:37

lol loox like his www fell down

14:38

Prolly runs on the mETHereum internet computer now.

14:39

shinohai: shows me a 'godaddy' eggog

14:41

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-02#1055967 << geigers are by far not the worst way for makeshift rng (supposing you debias correctly and don't try to pretend that it's good for multi-kB/s somehow -- it aint, not even at chernobyl, on acct of tube deadtime)

14:41

Logged on 2021-09-02 08:49:27 shinohai: In other news, building a fg was too hard for raw_avocado but made this instead: https://archive.is/RqHWw

14:41

they're not great for permanent installation tho.

14:41

Logged on 2020-08-20 18:25:37 asciilifeform: ( and asciilifeform realizes that 100% of folx who traditionally care about fast pulse, use PMTs. but i rejected'em for same reason as rejected geigers -- they require HV, which requires oscillators; and they ~age~ detectably, which is unacceptable in rng )

14:45

I got twatter DM from him about it being painfully slow but have not yet responded, very busy morning here so if he wants to discuss should show up here where I can review logs.

14:51

shinohai: the linked page doesn't even mention wtf it was he did to go from geiger clicks to rng output

14:53

Nah I saw nothing but a raspi and an altoids tin with a radioactive sticker on it.

14:53

soo most likely 'sumthing off shithub, dunno what it was'

14:54

(Like did not even say if he did diehard tests afaict)

14:54

*

shinohai will bbiab

~ 15 minutes ~

15:09

thimbronion's item works! need moar testers to get a proper graph of connections going to test further

15:10

asciilifeform: I will shoot you a peer stanza for my node shortly

~ 28 minutes ~

15:38

I guess pete_d lost his mind after huffing too much ether.

15:39

Or rather a man made of cardboard blows with the wind or some other deep proverb.

~ 38 minutes ~

16:18

wb PeterL

16:18

oh hi

16:18

$ticker btc usd

16:18

busybot

Current BTC price in USD: $49722.93

16:31

wb PeterL

16:32

signpost, thimbronion : ty, will be interesting to test. the real 'stress' will be when 20+ folx in one net, then deduplicator properly earns its pay

16:33

*

asciilifeform still not finished essay re algo! tho thimbronion in fact telepathed ~90% of it !

16:35

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-02#1055990 << rather, lost what small contact had with reality when inherited coupla megabux.

16:35

Logged on 2021-09-02 11:38:55 thestringpuller: I guess pete_d lost his mind after huffing too much ether.

16:37

it's rather reminiscent of old horror stories, starting from kafka's metamorphosis, with gigantic insects. normal-sized roach won't surprise anyone, but scale it up 1000x!

16:38

thimbronion: the alcuin-9995.tag.gz does not seem to match what you get by following the patches, did you put the wrong file there?

16:39

on http://thimbron.com/2021/08/alcuin-9995-propagate-field/

16:41

megabux aint what they used to be. people need to calm down.

16:41

*

signpost snagged a few and still feels poor

16:42

PeterL: Hmm. I will have to investigate this. Honestly I'm not sure if those patches are going to be around long term. I was hoping to just toss them and create a genesis that is compatible with asciilifeform's standard is published.

16:42

signpost: megabuck -- 2-3y of keeping lights on in torture room

16:42

*when it is published

16:44

asciilifeform: that's why I'm going rural. getting out of the housing bubble while I can still arbitrage the bubblehouse into acreage and brick.

16:57

PeterL: curious - you seem to prefer the patches to using a tar. Is that because you're interested in seeing exactly what changed since the last release? I'm still learning about how to publish with V. For example, when trb was genesised, it worked. As for alcuin, this is not really the case - it was an extremely minimal prototype that didn't have any of the critical

16:57

features. Not clear that it was worth a genesis.

17:01

yes, seeing what changed is exactly the reason.

17:01

well, I was just grabbing the tar so as to have all the latest, but it seemed like it was missing something so I went through the patches to be sure

17:02

the tar does not have the testnet, for example

17:04

having v also helps with making sure that patches get applied in the correct order

17:04

PeterL: ah ok ty will fix re: testnet being excluided from the tar.

17:04

yeah, was chatting with thimbronion about this on alcuin. imho the "someone will attach car battery to my nuts if I sign something unbefitting the gods"

17:04

note why signing and what's wrong with it in comments or wherever appropriate, but sign.

17:05

this hesitance to use the tooling doesn't serve anything.

17:05

for a few patches, manual is fine. but as more patches pile up, it is really nice to have that automation

17:06

in the example testnet you have the same local_secret for both other nodes, but in real use you would use a different local_secret for each peer, yes?

17:07

PeterL: yes

17:09

Is there any limit on the length of the secret?

17:09

thimbronion: secrets should be unique for each remote too eh?

17:09

signpost: yes

17:10

just wanted to clarify for PeterL since he only mentioned local

17:10

oh, I had assumed each remote would be unique since those are generated by the other peer, right?

17:11

PeterL: there is a limit on the size of the key used by serpent, but the secret used to create the key could be hashed I suppose so there would be no limit in that case.

17:12

PeterL: you could individually generate and swap or one party could generate both and share.

17:12

But in either case it wouldn't make sense to use the same key anywhere.

17:13

thimbronion: in asciilifeform's algo, incoming packets are identified solely by which hmac key they verify by. so peers in fact req'd to have distinct keys.

17:14

( the originator's ip is used strictly to decide where to send replies to; the one from the most recently-received packet for that given key, is used )

17:15

asciilifeform: actually yes - I use a similar technique - first key that decrypts matches.

17:15

*

asciilifeform not read thimbronion's yet

17:15

so then thimbronion also req's unique keys to operate.

17:16

asciilifeform: yep.

17:28

signpost: re: rural, what made you choose northeast as opposed to other US locations? also if you ever find the time to blog about the homesteading i'd really like to read

17:28

Logged on 2021-09-01 16:26:31 signpost: solar panels, canning, etc., even has a wife on his side in this project.

17:31

*

billymg now has chicken coop with 20 some chickens, first dip of toes into self sufficiency

17:38

yeah, I'm going to get back to my blog in time.

17:39

pretty cool re: chickens!

17:40

billymg: I have a personal connection to the area, lots of family there.

17:40

*

asciilifeform has neighbour who started with 2-3 chicken at a time, now dozens

17:41

(the item sold in shops resembles chicken less and less, and so growing'em yerself becoming 'mainstream' as result)

17:41

yeah, horribly mangled mutants that can barely (if at all) stand.

17:42

billymg: I stopped blogging because I was tired of yelling into a void. will start when I have what to say.

17:43

running alcuin testnet, and I got an error, Exception while attempting to encode message: 'key not a multiple of 4' http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Tu3k

17:43

coupla gents pushing the p2p stuff forward would be ample "to whom to say", certainly.

17:43

signpost: makes sense re: NE, my US family is all in alfistan and they all love big brother so not the best allies in these apocalyptic times

17:46

asciilifeform: the taste of the backyard chickens is so much better too, like different type of meat altogether

17:46

also just that they're freshly dead.

17:46

*

signpost doesn't raise 'em but goes to farmers markets to get the freshly deaded ones.

17:47

signpost: ah true, probably has a lot to do with the flavor too

17:47

signpost: indeed the market ones 'almost different species'

~ 17 minutes ~

18:04

PeterL: I suspect your secret is too long. Alcuin will pad the key if it's too short, but the case where it's too long is not handled. I should update it to just hash the secret.

18:05

eh, I dunno about should

18:05

why depend on a hash you didn't need to?

18:05

seekrit oughta simply be a 256b rng turd in base64

18:06

signpost: good point - not clear what extra length gets you if it's hashed.

18:06

e.g. dd iflag=fullblock status=none if=/dev/ttyUSB0 bs=1 count=32 | hexdump -ve '1/1 "%.2x"'

18:06

^ FG example

18:06

thing should just demand what it oughta have and reject all other values.

18:06

loudly and early

18:06

"fuck you, give me precisely this many bits"

18:06

^

18:07

if somebody insists on storing it 'in head' as a 'human' string, let him hash on own end

18:19

asciilifeform: when will phuctor return?

18:19

before jesus I hope

18:21

thestringpuller: was planning this for summer but no dice on acct of slavery

18:21

Logged on 2021-05-24 12:41:30 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-22#1037381 << likely before end of summer.

18:21

Logged on 2021-08-30 16:23:38 asciilifeform: signpost: 'time problem' in fact in past yr got ~substantially worse~ for asciilifeform

18:24

shinohai: get #freeasciilifeform trending on twitter

18:24

lol

18:24

thestringpuller: lol

18:29

( oblig vintage lulz, related )

18:35

look, i'm just saying asciilifeform deserves to be free, not kept in captivity

18:36

many folks live free here in cali under the overpass a few blocks over.

18:36

i've considered homeless...i mean van life...before

18:37

but the story arc of gabriel_laddel never concluded from what I read in the logs

18:37

lemme send him an email and see if he replies...

18:38

*

asciilifeform strongly suspects laddel is dead

18:41

*

asciilifeform not particularly interested in laddel-style 'freedom' ftr

18:41

Logged on 2021-08-30 16:43:49 asciilifeform: the other pt was that freedom can be said to come in '-' and '+' sign bits. the '-' is what folx normally focus on when fantasizing escape from usg and similar. and in some places relatively easy to come by. but to combine with '+' is much harder proposition. no gigabit fiber in zimbabwe, no one will set yer broken legs in antarctica.

18:44

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-02#1056055 << That goes back to my original question: in it's current state, what is "too long"?

18:44

Logged on 2021-09-02 14:04:26 thimbronion: PeterL: I suspect your secret is too long. Alcuin will pad the key if it's too short, but the case where it's too long is not handled. I should update it to just hash the secret.

18:44

toolong -- >256b. tooshort -- <256b.

18:44

(or replace w/ n)

18:45

g_l almost certainly in the pen or dead, yes

18:46

nutcase was blithering about sawing off his own foot at the end.

18:53

PeterL: According to the code in infosec.py 24 characters. According to the code in the Serpent lib, 32 bytes. Not clear to me at the moment why I set the max lower than what Serpent allows.

18:53

signpost: sniffing 'powdered courage' will do that

18:55

oblig laddel. rip.

18:55

(trilema) 2017-11-16 gabriel_laddel: Speaking of which, am going to be performing self-amputation of right foot as it is in the way + I don't trust or want US doctors.

18:55

(trilema) 2017-11-29 gabriel_laddel: ome and a weekend nights end at like 11pm because my generation deserves holocaust). This involved dancing around all over the place, even going so far as to pull out my computer & code onehanded, balancing on one foot, bobbing like a maniac, with lightbulb affixed. Honest to god, I can't tell you if ANYONE even lives in the whole western half of t

18:56

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-01#1055890 << since found, and turned out to be more scripts that weren't getting chmod +x in texinfo's build script.

18:56

Logged on 2021-09-01 17:05:02 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-01#1055800 << very curious; paste eggog plz when you get a chance, signpost

18:56

since vpatches don't (and oughtn't) know about unix file modes, these get set in respective build scripts. somehow wasn't stepping on this before with this one.

18:56

ha, this aint the 1st time 'texinfo' is the fly in soup

18:57

(why even needed? remains a mystery)

18:57

info files, because need those alongside man, because reasons...

18:57

primo nominee for chopping block imho

18:57

*

signpost took a militant "shall have all the interpreters/compilers for al lthe turds" attitude because after this vault is sealed off.

18:57

sealing first, then chopping

18:57

logical

18:58

presumably one might want to render the docs into some saner format later.

18:58

would like the material to do so present, alongside proggy that once ate

18:58

*

signpost expects no one to use texinfo for anything himself other than ^

18:59

https://github.com/gabriel-laddel - nothing for 6 years.

18:59

*

asciilifeform rather fond of tex on acct of being a dead-tree aficionado, and used many times for internal 'proggy to paper to hammock' process . but never once used texinfo

19:00

verisimilitude

I use Emacs for it.

19:00

verisimilitude

Man sucks.

19:03

is there a way to have gnat-2016 (4.9.4) and standard gcc-4.9.4 in a gentoo system at the same time? i just tried to emerge gnat-2016 and got blocked by gcc-4.9.4

19:04

billymg: see "crossdev" for how to have all sorts of compilers on one machine

19:04

hm, actually don't recall if this can do gnat.

19:04

billymg: is what i did, iirc ( --nodeps !! ) but i can't think of any good reason to do it, the gnat that comes outta portage aint edible

19:05

asciilifeform: so better to leave gcc-4.9.4 in the slot, and build a copy of gnat-2016 manually?

19:05

*

asciilifeform is sitting on a box with 7+ various crossdev gcc's . generally you have to manually set paths to use'em

19:06

billymg: correct, via signpost's process

19:07

!s pentacle tar

19:07

scoopbot

signpost: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, update

19:07

( or if you must, grab the old kit )

19:07

Logged on 2021-03-24 13:52:26 asciilifeform: dpb: the 1 i use for ffa since ch.11 inclusive was baked using ave1's recipe and builds self (on x64.)

19:07

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-18#1033394

19:07

Logged on 2021-03-18 21:55:05 trinque: dpb: https://trinque.org/pentacle.tar https://trinque.org/pentacle.tar.asc

19:08

*

signpost will fart out another of these in time, but this oughta build a static compiler

19:08

ah know what, nvm. don't use it

19:08

another problem is that I used oldstable for debootstrap, which meanwhile became oldoldstable.

19:09

signpost: this is the kinda thing that prompted asciilifeform to attempt binary bootstrapism

19:09

yeah, still wanna target a broadly known historic artifact (intent being many)

19:10

with bin-reproducible build

19:10

(folks are still welcome to read bootstrap.sh and *not* use it, build from their own box)

19:10

thing's heavily commented.

19:12

signpost, asciilifeform: i believe my system is glibc currently rather than musl

19:14

my laptop seems to have a gnat-2016 installed but i have no idea how it go there (from a few years ago when i was just entering random commands until something worked)

19:14

billymg: unless you went to special lengths to get a musltronic gentoo, yea it's glibc

19:14

billymg: if that gnat runs, keep it, can be used in bootstrapping of the proper one

19:15

( gnat, in case anyone forgot, requires an arse-mouth connection, i.e. an existing binary gnat, to build )

19:16

asciilifeform: yeah it works, at the moment i only need it to build vtools

19:16

maybe i can just copy over the binaries for now

19:17

i plan to build trb on here as well though, does that also need a gnat?

19:18

ah, yes, it does

19:19

billymg: why would current trb need a gnat ?

19:19

asciilifeform: i was just looking at these steps: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html

19:20

it's for vtools, billymg

19:20

not trb per se

19:20

ah, gotcha

~ 15 minutes ~

19:35

billymg: I had to build from sources, followed this recipe: http://btc.info.gf/blog/wip-a-static-gnat-with-musl-nosuchlabs-edition.html

19:36

(Basically just ave1's items with links updated to cure the bitrot)

19:50

shinohai: thanks, will read through this and the linked items and see if i can get it going

~ 16 minutes ~

20:07

wb bingoboingo

~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~

21:15

http://deedbot.org/help.html

!!help

21:15

deedbot

21:15

wew

21:15

pardon some join/part spam real quick.

21:19

!!gettrust signpost asciilifeform

21:19

deedbot

L1: 1, L2: 10 by 11 connections.

21:20

alrighty that thing lives again.

21:21

wot.deedbot.org still being kept up to date too

~ 30 minutes ~

21:52

jonsykkel: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2032#comment-19970

21:55

asciilifeform: its meant to obliterate the output word in the first iteration if you supply OF_in of all 1bits and a count of something like 1?

21:56

FZ_ShiftRight_O_I(x,y,1,z,-1)

22:02

jonsykkel: of_in is either 0 or ( 1<<machinebitness , when left shifting ) or ( 1, when right-shifting ) .

22:03

jonsykkel: there'd be a precondition to force this, but fz_shiftxxx are performance-critical, and, importantly, NOT exported to user

22:03

(they are strictly for internal use in ffa)

22:05

jonsykkel: see the last time someone asked about this

22:05

(trilema) 2018-11-29 asciilifeform: it will produce garbage, yes. i considered to make OF_in a limited type, but it would slow down the place where the item is actually used, substantially ( ada does not offer a fast bit-count-on-word operation )

22:07

jonsykkel: and see also the mailbag response in ch14.

22:08

asciilifeform: ok i see, didnt know these are only internally used

22:09

jonsykkel: tbf this is impossible to know w/out reading subsequent material

22:09

*

asciilifeform would add a note to ch3 itself but reluctant, doing so fucks over9000 text highlighting blocks

22:09

confused me at least

22:10

right

22:10

i'ma defo add moar explanation there when i make the deadtree ffa.

22:10

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-02#1056152 << a++! ty signpost !

22:10

Logged on 2021-09-02 17:15:35 deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html

22:12

np, just needed to trigger JOIN on a msg this server emits after connection.

22:12

before, triggered on all the hairy freenode auth/nickserv shit.

22:12

signpost: in my kludge used simply counter

22:12

(see the current logbot src)

22:12

yeah, rpl-welcome or w/e worked fine in clirc, but that works also

22:14

*

asciilifeform very happy to have deedbot back !

22:14

signpost: did anyone ever show interest in taking over the old deedbot wallet ?

22:14

was imho a++ feature

22:15

*

asciilifeform was sad to see it go in '20

22:15

maybe I'll bring it back someday, but I don't feel like handing that over to anyone atm.

22:16

a ok

22:16

long list of items that need a proper p2p version. wot itself is further up my list.

22:16

signpost: wouldn't a 'p2p deedbot wallet' be... bitcoin per se ?

22:17

recall the invoicing was the key thing there, at least I think.

22:18

stored value lets one do that without loads of txn.

22:18

that doing of business publically doesn't need signpost to be alive, or oughtn't.

22:19

signpost: dbw was a convenience, rather than 'absolutely needed' tho

22:19

sure, the other thing was me hand-cranking cold storage, lol

22:19

( e.g. asciilifeform continues to bill folx w/out it, simply costs a little moar per shot )

22:19

I might actually do this as a service someday, have considered it, but not today.

22:20

that's also why I am not eager to turn the wallet over to someone else. it involved my own opsec.

22:20

imho dbw shined at allowing very cheap goods & services to be billed

22:21

signpost: imho would even work well if deposit or withdrawal happened only on e.g. designated 2-3 days in yr

22:22

lets get some proper crypto going between wot nodes then maybe other useful things happen

22:22

anyways it's a luxury. but was imho pretty neato luxury.

22:22