03:42 |
raw_avocado |
whaack: noice |
| |
~ 45 minutes ~ |
04:28 |
punkman |
https://pthree.org/2017/12/22/the-entropy-of-a-digital-camera-ccd-cmos-sensor/ "when putting the generated binary files through the Dieharder tests, it comes out pretty bad. I get 20 "PASSED", 13 "WEAK", and 81 "FAILED" results." |
04:35 |
punkman |
just googled the vault12 app, and of course it's a wallet |
04:38 |
punkman |
their blog post about the their rng https://medium.com/vault12/how-to-get-true-randomness-from-your-apple-device-with-particle-physics-and-thermal-entropy-a9d47ca80c9b |
| |
~ 5 hours 49 minutes ~ |
10:28 |
punkman |
"TxProbe: Discovering Bitcoin’s Network Topology |
10:28 |
punkman |
Using Orphan Transactions" https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.00942.pdf |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 1 hours 53 minutes ~ |
12:21 |
adlai |
where's the angry old "icanhazpdf|ocr.slut" spammer when you need him!? |
12:22 |
adlai |
... which reminds me, I was gonna properly phrase some questions about OCR, for this place, since iirc asciilifeform [and maybe others?] have experience scanning books |
12:24 |
* |
adlai wonders how bad the quality of printed material has to get before the publishing industry thanks him personally for writing an 'unpub' tool |
12:25 |
adlai |
unlike bitcoin mining (i.e. a tool for censorship), 'unpub' is not a tool for ogilvisation; rather, it'd hope to someday be packaged as 'pdf2tex', with no delusions whatsoever of ever being 'pdf2latex' |
12:25 |
adlai |
the question that led to this dangling thread is quite boring: "have you ever OCRed sheet music?" |
| |
↖ |
12:29 |
adlai |
as for the old entropy question: working almost entirely off my readings of the past conversations on this, I'm surprised ~any~ peripheral built as an input device, in this case optical, is considered a good entropy source |
| |
↖ |
12:31 |
adlai |
perhaps a better metric for shootouts is (kb/s)/(J/s), a sorta 'miles per gallon' for noise generation |
12:32 |
adlai |
this metric would probably cause the camera approach to fail miserably, given how much extra computation would get spent making the frames coherent, and then debiasing... useless heat |
12:34 |
* |
adlai defaults to "musst nicht sprechen" re:1812.00942; after all, the only thing he understands worse than bitcoin, is topology |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~ |
14:26 |
punkman |
used tesseract-ocr many years ago, wasn't getting great results. they do have neural-something in newer version though. |
| |
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~ |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
ocr does't work, adlai et al. |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
('99.999%' != 'works' when it comes to potentially gnarly maffs typo) |
16:51 |
asciilifeform |
it 'works' well enuff for fiction on ru warez sites, but this only because 'over 9000' readers and they send in corrections. |
| |
↖ |
16:51 |
asciilifeform |
fughet about a 'pdf2tex'. |
16:51 |
asciilifeform |
ai-complete(tm)(r)(c). |
| |
↖ |
16:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049382 << 'a remarkable bear, but not a remarkable dancer' |
16:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-30 08:25:03 adlai: as for the old entropy question: working almost entirely off my readings of the past conversations on this, I'm surprised ~any~ peripheral built as an input device, in this case optical, is considered a good entropy source |
16:53 |
* |
asciilifeform does not, ftr, rec the use of such camera ~optically~, but as a (poor) particle counter. |
| |
↖ |
16:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-29 15:23:59 asciilifeform: but i've yet to see someone who is using camera as trng do this. (btw if you must do so, copper foil over the objective.) |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
~if you must~. |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
repeating, for the thick. |
16:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-28 23:13:45 asciilifeform: whaack: imho it's a little like asking 'what household object makes the best hammer?' -- buy a fucking hammer. |
17:02 |
shinohai |
And here I've been using a microscope all this time. |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
17:18 |
whaack |
!b 6 |
17:18 |
whaack |
good morning |
17:20 |
asciilifeform |
wb whaack |
17:30 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: is there a way to attack a bias'd rng without knowing what the bias is? |
17:33 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: certainly. you find out what it is! lol |
17:36 |
* |
whaack is pondering |
| |
~ 24 minutes ~ |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: note that bias in the usual sense aint the only possible rng failure. there's also, e.g., sequential correlation. |
18:01 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: not to mention 'debianization' where keyspace is 2^smallint instead of bigint, etc |
18:15 |
whaack |
asciilifeform: ah, i may have been grouping the terms bias and sequential correlation together. If the only 'bias' is that bit 1 appears more frequently, then since all rng input can be transposed to a bitstream, attacking an rng with this type of bias could be done by prioritizing the search of all N bit streams with arrays starting with all 1s (most individually likely outcome) , then all 1s |
18:15 |
whaack |
with one 0, etc. |
18:23 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: in practice, bias in rng comes usually in discrete ('erry 5th bit is a 1') rather than continuous ('weighted coin') form |
18:23 |
asciilifeform |
depending on what the victim is doing with his broken rng, different approach (e.g. if rsa or ecdsa -- solve lattice) |
18:33 |
scoopbot |
New post: Alcuin |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
18:59 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: now that we're on topic, i've been for a while wanting to ask a q. at the bottom of nosuchlabs.com front page, you say "We recommend at least 24 hours of entropy distillation (solely via XOR-in-place !) if generating mission-critical, long-term cryptographic keys." |
18:59 |
cgra |
is this is just because 'there's no 100%'? ie. humans make mistakes and only *mostly* notice |
18:59 |
punkman |
whaack: one of the papers I linked recently, found bias in btc tx nonce, and recovered private key due to that bias. |
19:03 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: per 'xor lemma', distillation via xor cannot subtract entropy under any circumstances (aside from feedback!) -- hence if you have the time, it doesn't hurt. |
19:05 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: what does "feedback" mean? |
19:11 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: arse-mouth connection. i.e. if the source of what you xor has nonzero info re what you're xoring with. |
19:17 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049394 << I've seen this in papers. One of them arrived at "put thumb over camera". |
19:17 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-30 12:49:31 asciilifeform: does not, ftr, rec the use of such camera ~optically~, but as a (poor) particle counter. |
19:17 |
asciilifeform |
lol why thumb?! |
19:18 |
punkman |
always have thumb |
19:18 |
asciilifeform |
oblig |
19:23 |
punkman |
actually, I think their scheme was thumb over camera and flash led, to have ~uniform "scene" with photons coming in |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: sounds like a good way to make accidental pulse oximeter, lol |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
instead of rng. |
19:23 |
punkman |
heh |
19:25 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: so with copper you get photons from photoelectric effect? |
19:27 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: afaik most of what you get is from thermal electrons, rather than energetic photons making their way through the foil. |
19:28 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: that's what I meant yeah |
19:28 |
asciilifeform |
notbad likbez re subj if anyone givesashit |
| |
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~ |
20:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049376 << largely for noobs, will point out that trb tolerates neither tx nor block 'orphans'. they are intrinsically a denial of service vector whereby randos can eat arbitrary memory. |
20:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-30 06:24:01 punkman: Using Orphan Transactions" https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.00942.pdf |
20:49 |
* |
asciilifeform considers the removal of that garbage to be one of his very few -- perhaps the only -- nontrivial contributions to trb |
20:50 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
20:50 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
20:50 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
20:50 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
20:50 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=693427 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.042s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=693444 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.111s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
20:50 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=693450 (Operator: whaack) |
20:50 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.322s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.234s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 |
20:50 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.755s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| |
↖ |
20:50 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
20:51 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov) |
20:51 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! |
20:52 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
| |
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~ |
22:05 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049412 << imho scoopbot really oughta say the www name also |
22:05 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-30 14:29:09 scoopbot: New post: Alcuin |
22:06 |
asciilifeform |
y'know, like feedbot did |
22:06 |
PeterL |
you mean name of website? |
22:08 |
PeterL |
I can probably add that |
22:12 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
22:13 |
signpost |
yeah, when reading from the logs it's not so clear |
22:14 |
PeterL |
like "new post on Thimbron:" then the link as it is above, or just the link and title without the bracket notation? |
22:16 |
asciilifeform |
the former |
22:17 |
PeterL |
sure |
22:17 |
asciilifeform |
PeterL: ty |
22:18 |
shinohai |
thimbronion: Can has plaintext of alcuin code? I still am unable to get properly formatted code trying to copy from WP page. |
| |
↖ |
22:20 |
* |
whaack seconds shinohai's request |
22:21 |
asciilifeform |
vpatch plz. |
22:21 |
* |
asciilifeform observes that thimbronion made a py demo of perhaps 20% of asciilifeform's (yet unpublished!) spec |
22:21 |
asciilifeform |
which is notbad |
22:22 |
asciilifeform |
( there are some nontrivial differences but essential idea is just about same ) |
22:22 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-28 21:00:58 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-28#1049144 << ftr the indeterminate-width fields of irc (and similar protocols) don't play well with udp. ( in asciilifeform's thing -- fixed-length fields. for absolutely everything, defined as it were hardware ) |
22:30 |
PeterL |
asciilifeform: are you writing your thing in Ada? |
| |
↖ |
22:31 |
PeterL |
asciilifeform: do you have preference on whitespace around items in the bracket notation? |
22:33 |
PeterL |
how does this look for a format? "%s: [ %s ][ %s ]" % (blog_title, item['link'], item['title']) |
22:47 |
shinohai |
$ticker btc usd |
22:47 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $41220.38 |
22:48 |
PeterL |
!s uptime |
22:48 |
scoopbot |
PeterL: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m |
22:51 |
PeterL |
It should be more clear now |
22:52 |
thimbronion |
shinohai, whaack: does this work for you? http://share.alethepedia.com/alcuin/genesis.vdiff |
22:53 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: will attempt to implement encryption this weekend. I can tighten up field lengths when I have more info. |
22:54 |
shinohai |
tyvm thimbronion looks proper. |