Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-07-17 | 2021-07-19 → ↓
06:11 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-17#1046279 << I think it's more likely they stop enforcing 21million limit than segwit
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06:11 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-17 17:15:43 whaack: the day of reckoning can come when miners stop enforcing the segwit rule and loads of "bitcoin" users have their coins wiped out from under their feet
06:13 punkman btw you can even wrap segwit tx in "normal" P2SH tx
~ 28 minutes ~
06:41 punkman https://news.bitcoin.com/4-consecutive-difficulty-drops-make-bitcoin-block-rewards-49-easier-to-find/
06:47 punkman "the LiteCoin ($36) founder sold 100% of his coins as it ran up to $300 while wearing a HODL shirt for video interviews. And he was also wash trading nearly 100% of the GDAX volume in LTC trading pairs for months after it listed and while he was an employee of Coinbase/GDAX."
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~ 45 minutes ~
07:33 mats https://www.crowdsupply.com/1bitsquared/glasgow
~ 16 minutes ~
07:50 * punkman wonders how much sense does it make to hypothesize about "future segwit fork" when this has already happened and it's called "Bitcoin Cash"
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~ 4 hours 20 minutes ~
12:10 punkman https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22329 "bitcoind uses 24GB of memory despite configuration" "Everything in the wallet is currently loaded into memory, so if your wallet file is large, so will the RAM usage for that wallet. There is some long term and ongoing work to load things on demand, but there is no expected time for when that might
12:10 punkman be complete.
12:10 punkman "
12:10 punkman such progress
~ 2 hours 29 minutes ~
14:39 billymg punkman: my understanding is that because segwit was implemented via "soft fork" defecting and refusing to enforce it would not result in a hard fork of the network (new coin). though i don't doubt that the "community" would at least attempt to fork to restore the coins, but they'd be the ones forking then, not the defecting miners
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14:39 billymg whereas not enforcing the 21M limit would immediately result in a hard fork
~ 3 hours 15 minutes ~
17:55 whaack if anyone here has a query they want to run on trbexplorer that the interface does not provide, please inform me and i'll make it available if it seems right
17:55 whaack !e help
17:55 trbexplorer whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-address, view-merkle-root, view-block, verify-all, view-txn, height, push, view-raw-txn, verify-block, view-raw-block, utxos, balance
17:56 whaack i would like to expose the sql schema and provide a way to run raw sql commands, does anyone know if there's a way, using python's sqlite3 module, to restrict commands to READ permission?
18:01 whaack punkman: billymg is right. Atm some people have added a new rule (segwit) to bitcoin that trb and actual bitcoin users have no obligation to enforce. As asciilifeform once said beautifully, ~ "they are like the people in India who ride ontop of a train. They are "on the train" for as long as the train does not pass through a tunnel.
18:01 whaack "
18:02 whaack asciilifeform: apologies if that's a misquote, but i recall reading you write something like that somewhere in the log
18:06 whaack punkman: The bar for swooping the coins is low. The miners just have to...run trb. And afaik no one's node is going to stop (not even prb's, seeing as they don't seem to validate anything anyways). Segwit users are just going to see their balances go to zero as the 'anyone can spend' coins are moved to addresses where you need to provide a signature to spend the coins.
18:07 whaack I've spoken to some segwit people on this and they seem to think that this cataclysmic event is the end of bitcoin since a majority of exchanges are using segwit and bech32 etc. But I don't think that's the case anymore than Mtgox was the end of bitcoin.
18:09 whaack !e height
18:09 trbexplorer 690611
18:09 whaack !e view-transaction 690611 0
18:09 trbexplorer whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-address, view-merkle-root, view-block, verify-all, view-txn, height, push, view-raw-txn, verify-block, view-raw-block, utxos, balance
18:09 whaack !e view-txn 690611 0
18:09 trbexplorer http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Bv-L 1 of 1
18:11 whaack odd, miner sends 3 outputs to 0 satoshi data txns
18:12 whaack !e view-txn 690611 1
18:12 trbexplorer TXN OVERVIEW
18:12 trbexplorer txn_hash: b9c2374e8b3ee55b770689a729a54336d77f766848cb46ea71e8a053e3196983
18:12 trbexplorer block_height: 690611
18:12 trbexplorer txn_index: 1
18:12 trbexplorer size: 114
18:12 trbexplorer INPUTS
18:12 trbexplorer txn_hash: fafc912fd71accec857f7e365e1737c38957e1a41bb3e7c3a98fec832ec65ca8
18:12 trbexplorer out_index: 1
18:12 trbexplorer value_sats: 15128979
18:12 trbexplorer scriptsig:
18:12 trbexplorer OUTPUTS
18:12 trbexplorer address: 87cbd83d1431730d628a1b25577faf8e1ea33f900114a9
18:12 trbexplorer value_sats: 2943880
18:12 trbexplorer address: 7106379bb6c60edd732e2b2618f58a85152646831400
18:12 trbexplorer value_sats: 12155417
18:14 whaack So this transaciton uses as an input some sorta segwit bs, i guess, since the scriptsig is empty
18:15 whaack let's look at the output it consumes
18:15 whaack or rather the txn that contains the output it consumes
18:15 whaack !e view-txn fafc912fd71accec857f7e365e1737c38957e1a41bb3e7c3a98fec832ec65ca8
18:15 trbexplorer TXN OVERVIEW
18:15 trbexplorer txn_hash: fafc912fd71accec857f7e365e1737c38957e1a41bb3e7c3a98fec832ec65ca8
18:15 trbexplorer block_height: 690608
18:15 trbexplorer txn_index: 34
18:15 trbexplorer size: 116
18:15 trbexplorer INPUTS
18:15 trbexplorer txn_hash: a23cc8d1914598ffeddd1bdc9cb363bd173f11a9fdc9faf98ac187842b6c4c7e
18:15 trbexplorer out_index: 1
18:15 trbexplorer value_sats: 15832068
18:15 trbexplorer scriptsig:
18:15 trbexplorer OUTPUTS
18:15 trbexplorer address: 1ELNmEVRtQHijqykGsAaZVAGQ7Wik2eifY
18:15 trbexplorer value_sats: 673407
18:15 trbexplorer address: 1a3f537545d72550325df2c4114ba25fd3c8d88f1400
18:15 trbexplorer value_sats: 15128979
18:16 mats did we see the same p2sh chart? there's 5.6mn btc up for grabs
18:17 mats some % of miners defecting and taking a % of that loot could be an extinction event
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18:23 whaack mats: If using bitcoin extinguishes bicoin then it's already dead in the water
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18:23 whaack bitcoin*
18:23 mats for comparison, makerdao in 2016 had about 15% of all ether, and iirc the attacker drained like 4mn of about ~80mn ether before the fork
18:28 whaack So the segwit users hard fork, then bitcoin users again get free options, they sell on the segwit hardfork and buyback on the bitcoin network as explained here http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/
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18:30 whaack !e view-raw-txn -paste fafc912fd71accec857f7e365e1737c38957e1a41bb3e7c3a98fec832ec65ca8
18:30 trbexplorer http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wds3 1 of 1
18:31 mats i lived through those events too, this isn't similar, it strikes at the fundamental viability of bitcoins
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18:32 mats this is the genius of the power rangers work
18:33 mats like it or not, ~30% of the monetary supply is vulnerable
18:33 mats (probably more, since a couple million coins might be lost)
18:36 whaack mats: indeed it is a well crafted evil poison slipped into bitcoin
18:40 billymg mats: in that case i guess we're all just waiting around for an "authorized" use of anyone-can-spend. i.e. "ransomware hacker" parks coins in a segwit address, UN orders miners to move them over to a UN address, the prb community cheers because it's authorized, and for "justice"
18:41 billymg in which case bitcoin is already subverted
18:41 billymg honestly i'd rather "kill bitcoin" if it means forking into a real bitcoin and a UN bitcoin
18:43 mats lol, UN bitcoin
18:44 whaack PLUS, the evil idiots who created this scam in the first place may be already trying to steal the coins they convinced people to put in anyone-can-spend addresses
18:44 mats if public reports about distribution of hash among nations are any good, that's very unlikely
18:44 whaack so no doubt the right move is to attack it, question is how to split the rewards with the miner, 50/50?
18:46 mats in order, its cn, us, kz, ru, ir
18:46 whaack maybe 98% miner and 2% for yourself, i'm happy with 2% of 5mil+ coin
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18:46 mats 3/5 of those players don't want anything to do with the rules based us-led intl order, and are actively working to subvert it
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18:47 mats beijing most of all desires a return to a multipolar world, with room to move and without having to be accountable to anyone but the party
18:49 mats in a showdown between trbcoin and segwitcoin, trb loses
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18:50 billymg mats: how? if they keep running segwit coin then the miners can keep draining their addresses
18:50 billymg however many times they fork to refill 'em
18:51 billymg unless they add in some "authorized miners only" in which case even the mouthbreathing users will realize that segwit coin is centralized coin
18:52 whaack on a technical level trb has a massive advantage
18:55 mats the miners that inappropriately spend segwit coin see their transactions unwound, and if they can't cooperate to do that, maybe that's the end of btc
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18:57 mats illiquidity induces fear like nothing else
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18:57 whaack mats: That's not the end of btc, the miners have the right to unwind the transactions if they're willing to pay to do so
18:57 whaack as unideal as that is
18:58 whaack so they spend a lot to unwind the 'unauthorized' segwit txn, things go back to the current status quo, and the 'attack vector' remains
19:01 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046423 << also, if this is true (i hope it is) then the coin that wins is the one that *isn't* susceptible to political pressure
19:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 14:46:38 mats: 3/5 of those players don't want anything to do with the rules based us-led intl order, and are actively working to subvert it
19:02 billymg why would any country want the presence of an anyone-can-spend loophole unless they're the only nation that can exploit it
19:06 * whaack brb, food
19:18 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046406 <<< This was always my understanding, both from linked Qntra and reading asciilifeform 's http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009
19:18 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 14:28:09 whaack: So the segwit users hard fork, then bitcoin users again get free options, they sell on the segwit hardfork and buyback on the bitcoin network as explained here http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/
~ 23 minutes ~
19:42 whaack shinohai: how does asciilifeform's piece relate?
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19:42 whaack if anything the 'kill switch' is now the 5mil coins held in anyone can spend
19:43 whaack that's 5 mil coins to a miner or group of miners who have 51% of the network
19:44 shinohai whaack: I was referring specifically to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009#selection-231.0-235.282
19:56 whaack shinohai: I admit I still don't follow, but it's okay if you don't want to take the time to spell it out.
~ 27 minutes ~
20:23 signpost this idea that trb has some kind of strategic advantage is complete nonsense.
20:24 signpost as mats says, draining the segwitcoins would extinguish bitcoin, and some other network would take its place.
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20:25 signpost this isn't happening in a vacuum, and saint mp of lost causes is not watching over trb.
20:25 signpost it's a piece of shoddy trash we never got finished decrufting.
20:28 whaack signpost: so trb users are beholden to all new rules i.e. softforks that prb imposes?
20:29 signpost no, they can fork off into a network of their own, pretending that trbcoin is a unit of account in their imaginary economy, I suppose
20:31 signpost contrary to the teachings of mp, declaring victory is not all that is required.
20:31 whaack my point in saying that trb has a 'massive technical advantage' is that if segwit coins get drained, trb still has an accounting system, whereas segwit users do not
20:31 signpost so what?
20:32 whaack so for the 98% of the world not involved in bitcoin, but have heard the term, trb users have a product to sell and segwit users do not
20:32 whaack segwit users will say 'bitcoin is broken! it was hacked!' and trb users will say 'nah, just download this client'
20:33 whaack i admit that the infrastructure of a huge number of wallets and exchanges collapsing does not bode well
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20:33 signpost that is utter nonsense. "bitcoin failed." is what will happen in that scenario.
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20:34 signpost if you want the economic phenomenon called bitcoin to proceed, you'd better hope the segwit piggy is *not* cracked open.
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20:35 signpost to give mp a small amount of credit, why do you suppose he chose "the darkening" to refer to this era?
20:36 signpost it is quite likely from where I sit that what comes next is a chinese-style totalitarian "smart contract" system, much like while peripheral nerds can use p2p warez networks just like they did in the old days, the *economic phenomenon* of mp3/rar/etc was crushed.
20:36 signpost and we'll recall the old days of real p2p.
20:37 whaack i admit that the thought that bitcoin depends on the miner's continuing to enforce the softfork of segwit is so daunting that i may just have trouble swallowing that idea
20:37 signpost if you don't want that, quite a lot of work to be done.
20:37 signpost it sucks, eh? I agree.
20:37 signpost there's something rotten in the soul of man that desires enslavement.
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20:38 signpost (this btw is perhaps the clearest statement of my disagreement with mp. he didn't see this as a bug)
20:40 whaack no hope, i guess, of getting a mass movement off of segwit - i.e. convincing all the well meanining bitcoiners without the werewithal to see the dangers of segwit to move their coins to a safe address while the current mining cartel is enforcing the new rule
20:41 signpost consider what otehr "mass movements" there'd be if this were possible.
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20:41 signpost *other
20:42 * signpost does not btw consider his own life hopeless in the slightest because of this.
20:44 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046469 << good point, a large percentage of holders can't even be bothered to take their coins off coinbase
20:44 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 16:41:52 signpost: consider what otehr "mass movements" there'd be if this were possible.
20:45 whaack the problem i guess is that when an exchange goes down and their customers lose their coins the customers know they are responsible
20:47 whaack whereas those losing their coins in a segwit swoop may be self-righteous about 'having done their due diligence' or something
20:49 signpost spoken as broadly as possible, "mass awakening" has been anticipated long enough.
20:49 signpost "hope" is in the direction of connecting the graph of thinking men, however big or small it may be.
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20:53 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046459 << would you see the result of this being a freedom btc trading in the triple digits? because while it would sting, might not be the end of the world
20:53 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 16:34:29 signpost: if you want the economic phenomenon called bitcoin to proceed, you'd better hope the segwit piggy is *not* cracked open.
20:54 punkman signpost gets it
20:54 punkman there are in fact no "anyone can spend" coins right now
20:54 punkman if you do this, you are making anothe Bitcoin Cash
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20:54 punkman and we can see how that played out
20:54 punkman (or Bitcoin ABC, Bitcoin SV and I dunno what else)
20:55 signpost yep
20:55 signpost billymg: what'd distinguish this coin next to any of the others of ^
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20:56 punkman at best, I can see a future fork that deprecates segwit or whatever "innovation" the power rangers come up with
20:56 punkman but that would require the segwit coins to be moved back to normal addresses
20:56 punkman which is doable
20:56 billymg punkman: you may be right that this is how it would be perceived at a social level (i.e. buterin eth is ETH while real ETH is ETC), but on a technical level spending the anyone can spend coins is not something that would cause a fork, no?
20:57 signpost which brings the thing back to "why this particular one", and the reason can't be "*this* one sanctified by some larping on the internet one time"
20:57 punkman real ETH is buterin ETH, there is no question about this
20:57 billymg i mean, it might trigger some people to fork in order to reverse the transactions (i'm sure it would)
20:57 signpost the social level is the foundation, not the tech.
20:57 signpost tech flows out of culture, which is the graph of people doing whichever peculiar thing.
20:58 billymg signpost: true, social and capital levels are the foundation, not the tech
20:58 signpost press instead in the direction of facilitating sane culture on the nets, however small, imho.
20:59 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046486 << in theory might be the coin preferred by >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046477
20:59 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 16:55:58 signpost: billymg: what'd distinguish this coin next to any of the others of ^
20:59 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 16:49:56 signpost: "hope" is in the direction of connecting the graph of thinking men, however big or small it may be.
20:59 signpost (which includes yes, pointing out every flaw in prb, but knowing the flaws doesn't mass the army to kill it)
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20:59 signpost billymg: I think I just answered you with ^
21:00 signpost (on that point as well)
21:00 billymg signpost: as in, at the moment would be no more than suicide mission?
21:01 signpost neh, no one would care to kill ya.
21:01 billymg i meant suicide for bitcoin, the economic phenomenon (if segwit piggy broken)
21:02 signpost I'll just say it serves nothing I wish to see occur.
21:02 billymg i interpreted your point as: first amass army and culture (however many centuries that takes), then strike
21:03 signpost if it takes centuries, high-tech totalitarianism wins until we have garage-fabbed spacecraft.
21:03 signpost "we"
21:04 mats won't take that long, just some people on venus or mars with sustainable ag would be enough
21:05 punkman garage-fabbed bio weapons is when things get interesting
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21:05 mats distance/time is enough for sovereignty, like the 13 colonies
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21:05 signpost punkman: I figure that one's not so easy to aim.
21:05 punkman easier than garage spaceship
21:05 signpost granted to both mats and punkman
21:06 punkman fairly certain I'm gonna see garace-covid in my lifetime
21:06 * signpost wants the decentralized wot, decentralized comms network, cryptographic control of what information leaks from my relationships
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21:06 signpost and *perhaps* on top of that, a cryptocurrency, although with a strong wot, it really starts to matter less.
21:07 * signpost operated the wallet perfectly, challenges anyone to say otherwise.
21:07 punkman "stage n, bitcoin exists" or what was it
21:08 signpost 100% agree garage-covid is coming.
21:08 signpost also will be interesting to see the evolutionary effect of the mrna vaccine "pulling of the stick"
21:08 whaack http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046482 < The difference is trb users have funds on both segwit-coin and trb, while segwit users have funds on only 1 of the 2 forks
21:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 16:54:24 punkman: if you do this, you are making anothe Bitcoin Cash
21:09 * signpost reminds whaack of mp's "from cause, not towards purpose", which is perhaps one of the wisest framings signpost encountered.
21:10 signpost one can't just imagine the trb network whole, big enough to dump enough prbcoin to make trbcoin rise.
21:10 signpost how. by what causes.
21:12 punkman and we can even find examples of people that dumped their prbcoin to keep their real-bitcoin, but now they only have real-bitcoin-cash, and not real-bitcoin
21:13 billymg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046513 << i don't see how anyone could argue, but without first fixing the critical bug it won't last long, regardless of planet or galaxy or whatever
21:13 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 17:05:08 mats: distance/time is enough for sovereignty, like the 13 colonies
21:13 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 16:37:39 signpost: there's something rotten in the soul of man that desires enslavement.
21:13 * signpost sees it growing out of the terror of death.
21:13 mats bitcoin won't work further than luna anyway
21:14 billymg heh
21:14 signpost one can find me prattling about the atomic self being the bug in the logs.
21:14 mats centralisation is on a continuum, necessary for basic activities like meeting and making markets
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21:15 punkman hanbot is possible only person with enough bitcoin to bootstrap a trb-coin
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21:15 signpost perhaps, if prior measures weren't $numberOfSharesOnMpex * $exchRate
21:16 whaack punkman: with that argument satoshi helping is a possibility as well
21:16 punkman will be a fun time when satoshi funds move
21:16 signpost punkman: not that hanbot pronouncing "All will love me and despair!" wouldn't entertain me greatly.
21:17 signpost go get it, girl.
21:17 punkman my suspicion is that satoshi fund never moves, since none of it has moved until now
21:17 punkman even Kleiman and Craig's stash might be lost forever
21:21 mats the anime 'eden of the east' is a fun dramatization of a satoshi airdropping 8bn yen (~75mn usd) in digital currency to 12 randos and telling them to change nippon
21:24 mats if hanbot is reading, please to return jurov's money, some of us still want to fight you know
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21:24 punkman I was looking at mining hardware and calculators today. ROI seems very reasonable if you can get free (or almost free) electricity.
21:28 whaack lol "get free" i.e. steal?
21:29 punkman whaack: sure that's one way to go about it
21:31 punkman find place that's not gonna notice extra 2-3kw, gets you like $30/day at current prices
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21:35 punkman you need to not lose/burn machine in less than 4-5 months, and you are golden
21:39 punkman there's a good amount of idle PV installations around here, could definitely lease cheap
21:41 punkman (they got big subsidies to build, hoping they'd sell energy back to power company, but power company figured out it was uneconomical to connect all these small installations to the grid. so they sit
21:43 punkman I have an invitation to invest in PV coop. They say they can build 1mw installations for 600k EUR, bank will loan 480k, 120k from investors. They want to do 100 x 1mw and then do substations that connect back to grid.
21:44 punkman marketing materials claiming 20-30% return per year. which makes me suspicious.
21:47 punkman even more suspicious, each member of coop gets one vote, no matter how many shares they hold. and maximum of 400k total investment per member. which I'm 99% sure means they want to fill coop with local goatfuckers and embezzle as much as they can
21:51 punkman I've sent list of questions to contact, but I expect "you are uninvited" instead of any serious answers
21:58 mats its a great time to borrow fiat imo
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21:59 punkman yeah if you can get it
21:59 mats borrowing against btc is still a shit deal, very capital inefficient
22:01 whaack so, pondering this discussion, I guess trb users are now the ones hijacking onto the prb network, using the larger prb network in perhaps a smarter way. My previous idea was that prb users were hijacking onto the trb network
22:01 punkman guy I know is borrowing 1mil for building in central EU, almost 0% downpayment, gonna rent to poor people on welfare. All that money and work, and he expects to make about 800-1000 eur per month (after loan payments, maintenance).
22:01 mats gotta overcollaterize 100-150%, interest rates are like 8-10
22:01 whaack or in other words, trb used to be the host, prb the virus, now prb is the host, trb the virus
22:02 whaack and now trb is in the unfortunate position where it cannot kill its host
22:03 whaack unless we have a doctor, farmer, tailor, architect, etc. all lurking in this channel
22:03 mats huh?
22:03 punkman what's doctor farmer gonna do
22:04 whaack point was that trb needs to be a big enough economy on its own to be self sustaining
22:06 punkman whaack, you mean tmsr2:electric boogaloo needs big enough economy
22:07 whaack more or less
22:07 whaack btw, does anyone in channel run a full prb node with all the segwit data included? thimbronion?
22:07 signpost yes, lemme see if it's still up.
22:10 signpost nvm, trashed it
22:10 punkman bitcoins cash sitting around 1-2 exahash, not bad
22:11 punkman 100 exa on prb
22:11 whaack i guess it would be quite a time consuming project in and of itself to verify that that prb full node *actually* contains all the sigs
22:12 punkman read thread saying prb never added any new checkpoints past 2014
22:13 * whaack will bbl, or tomorrow, cheers
22:13 punkman I wonder if that means prb is actually verifying everything past last checkpoint
~ 42 minutes ~
22:56 punkman https://hashrateindex.com/machines/sha256-rig-index
22:58 punkman https://hashrateindex.com/reviews/steve-barbour-s9 oilrig miner guy says "even today, over four years since its release, we are still exclusively using S9s when much more efficient hardware is available on the market"
22:58 punkman quite interesting
23:01 punkman https://compassmining.io/education/oklo-compass-fission-mining-partnership/
~ 40 minutes ~
23:42 punkman https://www.chia.net/ Bram Cohen (bittorrent guy) finally launched his thing. Mining rigs are pile of HDDs, so when you stop mining, you still got pile of HDDs.
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23:51 mats this destroys disks tho
23:53 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046337 << for some values of 'they', already many times 'stopped', neh.
23:53 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 02:11:36 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-17#1046279 << I think it's more likely they stop enforcing 21million limit than segwit
23:55 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046341 << shitcoin perpetrators are guilty until proven innocent (lol--proven how?) of this and more.
23:55 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 02:47:50 punkman: "the LiteCoin ($36) founder sold 100% of his coins as it ran up to $300 while wearing a HODL shirt for video interviews. And he was also wash trading nearly 100% of the GDAX volume in LTC trading pairs for months after it listed and while he was an employee of Coinbase/GDAX."
23:55 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046343 << moar than one, even (i recall sumthing-or-other 'gold' etc)
23:55 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 03:50:03 punkman: wonders how much sense does it make to hypothesize about "future segwit fork" when this has already happened and it's called "Bitcoin Cash"
23:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046348 << this is correct, or at least was last i bothered to look inside prb (0.10? iirc)
23:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 10:39:24 billymg: punkman: my understanding is that because segwit was implemented via "soft fork" defecting and refusing to enforce it would not result in a hard fork of the network (new coin). though i don't doubt that the "community" would at least attempt to fork to restore the coins, but they'd be the ones forking then, not the defecting miners
23:59 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046402 << pretty sure we had at least one 'what does it mean to ask whether bitcoin still works?' thread, and not long ago
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23:59 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-18 14:17:39 mats: some % of miners defecting and taking a % of that loot could be an extinction event
23:59 dulapbot Logged on 2020-12-17 16:37:18 asciilifeform: re upstack , imho important q for any participant to answer ~for himself~, 'does bitcoin work? what does it mean for it to work?' (see also e.g.)
23:59 asciilifeform for instance asciilifeform strongly suspects that what for mats would be 'extinct', for asciilifeform would be a beautiful dream. e.g. $1 btc for next 10y.
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