| 01:28 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: who hasn't written this hypertext database editor over and over, lol |
| 01:29 |
trinque |
I helped incinerate about $3mil building just such once upon a time. |
| 01:29 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: i'm consulting for 1 of these even as we speak. |
| 01:29 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: i won't even dare to guess how much dough burned there... |
| 01:30 |
* |
trinque chortles |
| 01:31 |
asciilifeform |
and incidentally it is 99+% of what i want from a computer, full stop. |
| 01:31 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-07-03 19:24:41 asciilifeform: ... was to be very basic text editor where edits db entries, each one titled w/ arbitrary string. principle being, 1st pair of [[ ... ]] in the text is title of given entry; and any subsequent [[ ... ]] become clickable links to other entries. with tab-completion and floating selector while typed. ( plan included other knobs, but this alone already gives very useful item imho ) |
| 01:37 |
trinque |
yeah, I want an ergonomic taxonomentron, and atop that a trustworthy calculator, then ability to fart structured messages at my friends. |
| 01:37 |
trinque |
can park it right there for all I care, don't even have that. |
| 01:38 |
trinque |
*taxonometron |
| 01:38 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: more dire: apparently ~impossible even to write winblows notepad clone for any current os, w/out invoking apicrapolade |
| 01:38 |
asciilifeform |
there are 0 working examples of text editor ab-initio that are in any sense readable. |
| 01:40 |
asciilifeform |
hell, even emacs ~still~ doesn't have smooth scrolling, because apparently requires gpu voodoo that no one knows how to implement in c, even on linux |
| |
~ 58 minutes ~ |
| 02:38 |
verisimilitude |
Wouldn't one solution be to build one computer into a screen which handles all of this, and the program sends commands to it? |
| 02:42 |
verisimilitude |
At least this would allow isolating it. |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
| 03:04 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: it's no solution at all : if i can't cut/paste to/from $item and www browser on every major os, it's worthless to me |
| |
↖ |
| 03:05 |
asciilifeform |
(www browser, emacs, shell, irctron, etc etc) |
| 03:06 |
asciilifeform |
and before anyone asks (will anyone ask, lol) did try it as emacs extension. laughably stupid idea, elisp w/ its stop© gc is not practical for multi-GB datasets. |
| 03:13 |
verisimilitude |
Those goals conflict. |
| 03:13 |
verisimilitude |
If I could get a usable computer, I wouldn't give a damn about using a WWW browser with working software. |
| 03:14 |
verisimilitude |
As I've been told, it's all one strand. |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 03:48 |
asciilifeform |
a usable computer, in asciilifeform's conception, is simply a 7 laws compliant item with functionality that is necessarily a superset of that of earlier comps. |
| 03:49 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. if asciilifeform wishes to do something he habitually did w/ a comp in 2020, the answer is under ~no~ circumstances anything but yes. |
| 04:03 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile, in unrelated mail. |
| 04:04 |
verisimilitude |
That resembles current Urbit more than what I figured Loper-OS was. |
| 04:04 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: dafuq? |
| 04:04 |
verisimilitude |
Urbit's just running on top of GNU/Linux currently. |
| 04:05 |
verisimilitude |
Well, more than just that, but that was my point. |
| 04:05 |
verisimilitude |
I suppose I've misunderstood somewhere along the way. |
| 04:05 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: gimme a cogent argument for why there's some task doable on e.g. shitlinux today, that ought ~not~ to be doable on a proper comp. |
| 04:09 |
* |
asciilifeform also wishes to remind readers that thread was orig. concerning a trivial (but nonetheless apparently impossible to write, on extant os+irons) proggy, rather than Proper Comp |
| 04:09 |
verisimilitude |
Alright; the argument is that it's conjoined and will naturally result in porting over everything. I've read of instances where adding POSIX to a new OS turned it into an OS attached to POSIX. |
| 04:10 |
verisimilitude |
None of the WWW is built to last; let it burn. |
| 04:10 |
asciilifeform |
the answer is to not be retarded and not to permit such conjoining. |
| 04:10 |
verisimilitude |
A translation program is different. |
| 04:10 |
asciilifeform |
y'know, rather how you can keep a dog and not eat its shit. |
| 04:11 |
verisimilitude |
Well, there's an effort to make interacting with the WWW nearly impossible with anything but one client. |
| 04:12 |
asciilifeform |
as concrete example, the bolix people were able to have a working c (and even fortran) compiler on the box, and one which understood all data types of the os as well as all other softs present on the box, without compromising any 'lispiness' of any other component. |
| 04:13 |
verisimilitude |
Also, trivially, getting a ``virus'' is something no good machine should allow, although this is aiming low. |
| 04:13 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: if i want to analyze virii in an emulated winxp -- oughta be able to. |
| 04:13 |
verisimilitude |
I'll take a look. |
| 04:13 |
asciilifeform |
doesn't mean said winxp is '1st class citizen'. |
| 04:14 |
asciilifeform |
any more than a box able to run nintendo nes emu is necessarily nintendo-flavoured as consequence. |
| 04:15 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: www already quite close to only being renderable on 1 program, from 1 vendor, and -- what's worst -- weighing multiple GB and leaking memory like no tomorrow |
| 04:15 |
verisimilitude |
A VM would still be so large. |
| 04:15 |
asciilifeform |
the only pill against this is to take www the fuck back. |
| 04:15 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. my logotron renders just fine on 'lynx'. |
| 04:15 |
verisimilitude |
We should both know that won't happen. |
| 04:16 |
asciilifeform |
i expect would look entirely correct on 'arachne', 'netscape', and other extinct light browsers. |
| 04:16 |
verisimilitude |
Sure, we've good websites, but this is different. |
| 04:16 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: what's different ? |
| 04:17 |
verisimilitude |
The WWW is damned regardless of what enthusiasts do, and isn't desirable anyway. |
| 04:18 |
asciilifeform |
i aint about to give up hypertext ~as concept~ to the people who hijacked www. |
| 04:19 |
asciilifeform |
any more than give up operating system to microshit |
| 04:20 |
verisimilitude |
The WWW is horrible hypertext; refer to Ted Nelson. |
| 04:21 |
asciilifeform |
and the answer, here as everywhere else, is to take back what you can personally take back, in all cases. even if you know that it's a doomed effort. |
| 04:21 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2018-12-21 asciilifeform: oughta have instead died trying to close that mg embrasure. |
| 04:21 |
verisimilitude |
Yes. |
| 04:24 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl. |
| |
~ 32 minutes ~ |
| 04:57 |
gregorynyssa |
zx2c4: thanks for the link. |
| 04:58 |
gregorynyssa |
zx2c4: asciilifeform: GUIs aside, the community never even mastered the art of building TUIs, owing to "terminal madness," or "termios madness." |
| |
↖ |
| 04:59 |
gregorynyssa |
although nano(1) and links(1) are halfway decent (at the cost of the horrid "ncurses" dependency). |
| 05:00 |
gregorynyssa |
scratch that; links(1) does not seem to use "ncurses" (maybe that is why it is so good) |
| 05:06 |
gregorynyssa |
asciilifeform: I never got around to asking, do you see any future for SQL within your sane computing environment? have you read the Third Manifesto by Date and Darwen? |
| |
↖ |
| 05:10 |
verisimilitude |
I can't answer, but would wager no; I've read of how SQL falls short of its mathematical beginnings. |
| 05:11 |
verisimilitude |
Be that book or WWW link, gregorynyssa? |
| 05:21 |
gregorynyssa |
verisimilitude: it is a book written by two British computer-scientists which promotes relational logic but excoriates SQL for its mathematical inelegance. |
| 05:22 |
gregorynyssa |
based on the content of your blog, I imagine that you would enjoy reading it. |
| 05:29 |
verisimilitude |
I'll keep it in mind. |
| |
~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~ |
| 06:51 |
verisimilitude |
I agree ncurses is terrible; it's not even hard to replace. |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 5 hours 15 minutes ~ |
| 12:07 |
thestringpuller |
people are weird; "bitcoin is bad because it's killing the environment" "okay, what is your solution to the Byzantine Generals Problem?" "..." |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 2 hours 2 minutes ~ |
| 14:09 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: see thread re subj. |
| 14:09 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-05-15 10:47:54 lru: where could I find a collection of proof-of-work alternatives? i.e. ideas that were tried and failed |
| 14:09 |
asciilifeform |
(and elsewhere.) |
| 14:14 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-28#1037913 << try some time to paste from terminal proggy to graphical w/out introducing 'over 9000' spurious newlines. |
| 14:14 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-28 00:55:09 gregorynyssa: zx2c4: asciilifeform: GUIs aside, the community never even mastered the art of building TUIs, owing to "terminal madness," or "termios madness." |
| 14:14 |
asciilifeform |
fundamentally braindamaged os. (all of them.) |
| 14:15 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-28#1037916 << mine -- no. any that's made from current softs -- mandatorily. there's no practical substitute for sqlism presently. |
| 14:15 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-28 01:03:43 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: I never got around to asking, do you see any future for SQL within your sane computing environment? have you read the Third Manifesto by Date and Darwen? |
| 14:17 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-28#1037922 << replace with what ? |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| 14:17 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-28 02:48:31 verisimilitude: I agree ncurses is terrible; it's not even hard to replace. |
| 14:17 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
| 14:17 |
btcinfobot |
Current BTC price in USD: $36849.72 |
| 14:18 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.052s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.090s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=684919 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=685181 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.144s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.105s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=685270 (Operator: whaack) |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.209s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.222s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 |
| 14:18 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.274s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412055 (Operator: jurov) |
| 14:19 |
watchglass |
24.28.108.235:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: trinque) |
| 14:19 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! |
| 14:19 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.780s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=685270 |
| |
~ 3 hours 16 minutes ~ |
| 17:35 |
asciilifeform |
!q uptime |
| 17:35 |
snsabot |
asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 2d 0h 4m |
| |
~ 3 hours 25 minutes ~ |
| 21:00 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-28#1037923 What I find amusing is ``Bitcoin is bad for the environment. Why no I won't optimize my Electron app.''. |
| 21:00 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-28 08:04:09 thestringpuller: people are weird; "bitcoin is bad because it's killing the environment" "okay, what is your solution to the Byzantine Generals Problem?" "..." |
| 21:03 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-28#1037932 I read the standards, and wrote two libraries for myself. |
| 21:03 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-05-28 10:14:27 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-28#1037922 << replace with what ? |