10:01 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: yep that's the tradeoff |
10:03 |
trinque |
$vwap |
10:03 |
btcinfobot |
The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 45524.52 USD |
10:03 |
trinque |
uh oh, we're poor again |
10:05 |
trinque |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-02-08#1031239 << seems like that's what homo reddicus is doing, taking their UBI and dumping it into the casino |
| |
↖ |
10:05 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-08 17:26:00 asciilifeform: trinque: heh, picture what exch rate might look like if even 1% of that 'go brrr' were to buy btc |
10:06 |
trinque |
rational, in that sad "fuck it, I will never be rich any other way". |
10:07 |
trinque |
same as the lottery. |
| |
~ 2 hours 28 minutes ~ |
12:35 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: lol rich |
12:37 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-02-10#1031290 << the payola was a one-time coupla $k, wasnnit ? dun seem like it'll buy very long play in casino |
12:37 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-10 10:05:50 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-02-08#1031239 << seems like that's what homo reddicus is doing, taking their UBI and dumping it into the casino |
12:41 |
verisimilitude |
Besides, I've read a decent amount which emphasizes how a fiat currency trying to buy Bitcoin would just drive the values further away. |
12:42 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: no, continuing payments are being contemplated |
12:43 |
trinque |
and given the "velocity of money" still wont increase (since it's all being sucked into the casino) this will probably be the final inflationary stick-pulling |
12:43 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: sadly nope |
12:43 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-05-05 19:56:14 asciilifeform: it worx because there's a neverending supply of a) dumb shits who see 'paper gold' as == to actual b) greedy shits who want 'leverage' |
12:44 |
verisimilitude |
I don't know what's supposed to happen when the dollar becomes worthless. The military, government, and largest businesses aren't just going to roll over and die. |
12:44 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: can't resist to ask, why do you think 'final' ? |
12:46 |
trinque |
US has been using the rest of the world as an inflation-sink for the last half-century via trade deficit |
12:47 |
verisimilitude |
Also, plenty of people worldwide would starve without the US food exports. |
12:47 |
trinque |
it's hard to imagine the USD keeping its reserve status after this, but who knows, stupidity knows no bounds |
12:48 |
verisimilitude |
Misery loves company but, at least if I die, I die alone. |
12:48 |
trinque |
eh I'm hardly miserable |
12:48 |
verisimilitude |
I just refer to potential collapse. |
12:48 |
trinque |
w/e, death comes for us all, not miserable about that either |
12:50 |
trinque |
anyhow, the brrrrr reactions after "market" crashes appear to be exponentially increasing |
12:51 |
trinque |
sadly earth is not also exponentially increasing |
12:51 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: the interesting imho aspect is the lack of any detectable exponential effect on btc-usd |
12:51 |
trinque |
so even assuming the idiot international dollar system participants don't abandon ship, how can there ever be enough of them. |
12:52 |
asciilifeform |
( see also ) |
12:52 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-05-05 19:58:04 asciilifeform: the 'mass of usd' in circulation ~doubled in last month. w/out, observe, anyffin like a proportional effect on btc, gold, etc |
12:53 |
trinque |
yeah, matters where the money is flowing |
12:53 |
trinque |
right now most dollar-holders consider the stock market the only thing that can give a return |
12:53 |
verisimilitude |
Well, we know the saying: ``Humans are bad at visualizing exponential effects.'' |
12:53 |
trinque |
which is hilarious given how far from the mean it currently is |
12:54 |
trinque |
verisimilitude: also when we see them we get scared, which is probably a very good instinct |
12:54 |
trinque |
note the spike-and-blowoff cycles in btc |
12:54 |
verisimilitude |
My fear of such must be dulled, then. |
12:54 |
trinque |
the exponential is there, but there's a dampening effect somewhere in the hindbrain |
12:59 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: also cannot help but wonder whether exch rate would still have so many digits in it if coin were actually easily spendable (vs. 'write-only memory'(tm)(r)) |
12:59 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-04 15:40:57 asciilifeform: adlai: asciilifeform's gripes re 'unspendable' are 100% to do with ~usd~ , rather than btc |
12:59 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-01-06 21:15:41 asciilifeform: makes for a rather great 'write-only memory' tho! |
13:02 |
trinque |
safe to say nobody has a good prediction of what's next, certainly not me. |
13:03 |
trinque |
one could assume more "monetary velocity" in BTC would drive the value per unit up, since it constrains supply for new purchasers |
13:03 |
trinque |
but I know very little about what transitions between currencies look like historically, not a bad thing to research |
13:04 |
trinque |
the collapse of the former probably has a lot of near-term potential for destruction of the what-to-value before latter's widespread enough to fully replace |
13:05 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: depletion of circulating coin only constrains the price for purchasers of genuine (rather than paper) coinz, however |
13:05 |
trinque |
certainly so |
13:05 |
asciilifeform |
recall shortage of physical au in past decade. couldn't tell it by looking at the price of paper au. |
13:08 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: asciilifeform has once witnessed a currency replacement; but was, of course, of 1 printola w/ another. |
13:08 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-05-05 19:39:14 asciilifeform: thimbronion: i watched ruble die as a boy. suddenly had whole sack full of'em, felt 'rich'. until a little later, when noticed it wouldn't buy even candy bar |
13:10 |
asciilifeform |
... and, importantly, the 'winners' in such historical events were ~not~ folx who had somehow hoarded $new_paper in advance. |
13:10 |
asciilifeform |
( but instead rather: thieves, robbers, extortionists, corrupt officials of all stripes ) |
13:11 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. folx w/ access to goodies 'not bolted down well' |
13:11 |
trinque |
sure, hoarding power always beats collectables |
13:12 |
* |
trinque would also not be surprised by a totalitarian attempt to either turn btc into, or otherwise force use of, a fedcoin |
13:13 |
trinque |
usg is not just going to say "damn, we lose!" in a hyperinflation scenario |
13:13 |
trinque |
still has enough boom to wreck 100 earths or w/e |
13:14 |
asciilifeform |
see, however, also. |
13:14 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-11-02 15:33:53 asciilifeform: all the current slave empires have exactly 1 strategic objective : 'business-as-usual'. ad infinitum. |
13:15 |
mats |
the chinese experiments with fedcoin are proceeding smoothly |
13:15 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: 'soft' paperization seems to work a++. exactly as it worked w/ au, the circulation of which, despite legalization under nixon, never threatened reich's 'brrr'. |
13:15 |
mats |
https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurrencies/news/bank-of-chinas-cbdc-trials-crossed-3-million-between-april-and-august-202010080506 |
13:17 |
asciilifeform |
mats: it aint clear to me what chinese (or any other) 'national paylal clone' -- i.e. permissioned/premined loltron -- has to do w/ 'cryptocurrency' |
13:17 |
asciilifeform |
*paypal |
13:17 |
asciilifeform |
is simply an expensive, slow, baroque way of baking a paypal. |
13:20 |
* |
trinque bbl |
13:20 |
asciilifeform |
mats: imho quite reminiscent of the expensive and pointless sovok clone of usa's 'space shuttle'. |
13:25 |
mats |
i'm not sure operating a fedcoin has to be expensive or slow |
13:26 |
verisimilitude |
Now I see the value of Bitcoin ``would be negative if a proper carbon tax was applied to its massive polluting''. |
13:26 |
verisimilitude |
The parasites wasting obscene resources on ``high-frequency trading'' games are apparently still fine. |
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↖ |
13:26 |
verisimilitude |
https://archive.is/LmseS |
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↖ |
13:27 |
verisimilitude |
This article conflates several different cryptocurrencies, to its benefit. |
13:27 |
asciilifeform |
mats: depends on whether is a 'coin' in the sense of public chain, blocks, verification of sigs, etc. or simply a paypalesque central db + some abuse of terminology |
13:27 |
mats |
verisimilitude: or the folks with outdoor cats murdering local populations of rodents and birds, or those who commute to work in a hulking machine with less than three occupants, or those who fly from toronto to miami for vacation |
13:28 |
asciilifeform |
mats: in the former case -- slow (and potentially very expensive, as may req. ethertard-style 'unprincipled exceptions' periodically) |
13:28 |
verisimilitude |
I've never heard of a Bitcoin transaction being ``reversed'', as with Ethereum, and the idea that money is ``safe'' when an organization controls it is laughable. |
13:28 |
mats |
i rarely see the 'bitcoin is bad for the environment' arg proferred in good faith |
13:29 |
asciilifeform |
mats: see also |
13:29 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-05-15 22:24:16 asciilifeform: lru: lemme ask you, do you think the resources that went into making, e.g. hydrogen bomb, were wasted ? |
13:29 |
verisimilitude |
Apparently feeding Africa isn't a massive waste of resources, either. |
13:29 |
verisimilitude |
That dragon story comes to mind. |
13:30 |
asciilifeform |
oblig |
13:33 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 100% of envirowhinerism reduces to the old gulag maxim 'you -- die, i -- will live a bit more' |
13:34 |
mats |
lol |
13:36 |
verisimilitude |
I agree, how amusing. |
13:37 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-02-10#1031357 << at this pt i suspect that there's a perl script somewhere which generates these, since '13 or so |
13:37 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-10 13:26:51 verisimilitude: https://archive.is/LmseS |
13:40 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: picture if cockroaches could write. what do you suppose they would write about ddt ? |
13:43 |
verisimilitude |
They're too busy pushing homosexuality and trannies. |
13:44 |
asciilifeform |
mats: the folx who prattle about the 'ecological threat' of cats , particularly loathesome. 100% of the time they have never seen a rat, in their 'mcmansions' |
13:49 |
asciilifeform |
or take the 'commute to work in a hulking machine with less than three' -- nuffin voluntary about it. unlike the 'jet setters' and their pompous 'business' travels |
13:49 |
verisimilitude |
The US car culture is just an example of how businesses don't make the best for society, but for them. |
13:51 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: the terminological abuse in calling e.g. ford 'a business' (rather than what it is -- an unofficial organ of the crown) -- is rather similar to the 'communism' of sovok |
13:56 |
verisimilitude |
Well, of course; all businesses are arms of the government. |
13:58 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: lolwat? |
13:58 |
verisimilitude |
No business in the US, at least those large enough, can be trusted. |
14:00 |
verisimilitude |
The example of Best Buy's ``Geek Squad'' or whatever being FBI informants comes to mind. |
14:06 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: see, this is that very same terminological confusion, and to the enemy's advantage. 'best buy', 'mcd', etc. aint 'businesses' in the sense of e.g. auto mechanic or asciilifeform's isp etc. |
14:08 |
asciilifeform |
a usgcorp aint a business in the sense where it actually relies on supplying a demand to stay in the black, and where the operator's personal wealth is predicated on the health of the biz |
14:08 |
verisimilitude |
It's the goal of most businesses to transition to those, however. |
14:08 |
asciilifeform |
( i presume erryone has heard of 'golden parachute' ) |
14:09 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: while it is impossible to say that e.g. folx selling hats from carpets in the streets ~would refuse~ 'transition' to usgcorp -- not clear that any such folx spend time thinking about subj |
14:10 |
verisimilitude |
They'd go insane or become, say, communists otherwise. |
14:10 |
verisimilitude |
The system is predicated on the lie that it can happen with hard work. |
14:12 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: outside of 'startupism' racket, most small biz folx i've run into do not suffer from delusion of 'get rich!11' |
14:12 |
asciilifeform |
( instead, suffering delusion that 'with hard work!' they can pay off mortgage, auto credit, etc., and have what to eat when old! ) |
| |
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~ |
15:14 |
feedbot |
http://thetarpit.org/2021/google-the-tech-company << The Tar Pit -- Google, the "tech company" |
15:23 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-02-10#1031356 << this framing, incidentally, is mistaken. aristocrats don't waste resources by playing 'core wars' w/ each other; but rather by... eating, building palaces, massacring own serfs, etc. |
15:23 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-10 13:26:13 verisimilitude: The parasites wasting obscene resources on ``high-frequency trading'' games are apparently still fine. |
15:24 |
asciilifeform |
... and observe that homo redditus nao got his wish, can play 'same' game of corewars w/ one another, 'gamestop' etc |
15:25 |
asciilifeform |
it is imho worth to think about, do you object to simply one particular hobby of the aristocrats? or to them, themselves, as a class. |
15:38 |
verisimilitude |
I object to their existence, and won't pretend one of the reasons isn't because I'm not in that class. |
15:40 |
verisimilitude |
I prefer to think the better should rule, and that class is neither stronger nor smarter. |
15:43 |
verisimilitude |
Returning to my deity ruler idea, the current set of humans lording over us aren't even close. They're pathetic. |
| |
~ 34 minutes ~ |
16:18 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: i suspect that current-day aristos are a story of substance abuse. e.g. the medicis, did not have cocaine. |
| |
~ 53 minutes ~ |
17:11 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: is cocaine more destructive than alcohol to the addict? |
| |
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~ |
18:41 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: afaik ~less~; however, moar destructive to folx nearby. |
18:41 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-02-04 13:54:29 asciilifeform: y'know, folx w/ 'hurrah!' confidence spewing outta all orifices -- but ~0 capacity for reflection. |
18:50 |
asciilifeform |
see also thread. |
18:50 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2016-12-01 asciilifeform: there was not an earlier document ? |
19:00 |
thimbronion |
Forget cocaine, ancient aristocrats also lacked caffeine. |
| |
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~ |
20:08 |
trinque |
I think there's just not anything nearly as interesting to do today. |
20:09 |
trinque |
in prior history the game was the expansion and contraction of empires, and modern warmaking ended that. |
| |
↖ |
20:10 |
trinque |
we had a fantasy of extending into space in late 20th c, and realized that's way further off than star trek wanted. |
20:11 |
trinque |
now we're just sitting here with our thumbs up our ass, having grown more or less to the size of our banzai-kitten planet, waiting for someone to find cheaper energy, easier gravity-well escapes, etc |
20:13 |
trinque |
anyhow, all this "not really much to do until someone drastically upsets the balance of power" doesn't make for an interesting game that grows interesting aristocrats |
20:13 |
trinque |
it just grows arsonists and bank robbers. |
20:13 |
trinque |
or pill-heads. |