Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-11-01 | 2020-11-03 → ↓
05:58 mats http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-30#1023787 << isnt that snowden's original intent? he wasnt looking to burn nsa to the ground, but expose the dragnet
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05:58 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-30 10:49:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-29#1023772 << not esp. surprised. and quite lulzy complaint when coming from the fuckwad who personally censored the snowden papers.
~ 3 hours 47 minutes ~
09:45 PeterL http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-31#1023906 << should be "edits to two separate files in non-orderable" -- it could be the same contributor
09:45 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-31 11:58:15 trinque: iirc the prompt for the manifest was my and others' observation that two edits to the same file by two different contributors is undecidable. do I have that part right?
09:46 trinque PeterL: why the fuck would the same contributor do that?
09:46 PeterL perhaps they are two seprate issues, so they put it in two separate v-patches?
09:46 trinque think, they'd both start from same antecedent hash
09:47 PeterL but isn't the antecedent hash at the file level?
09:48 trinque maybe you can restate the problem first
09:48 PeterL the manifest was added so that you could press vpatches that contain patches to unrelated files in a set order
09:51 PeterL if the edits are to the same file, you just press to vpatch 1 or vpatch 2. if the edits are to different files, before adding the manifest, pressing to vpatch 1 would not include the change from vpatch 2, and pressing to vpatch 2 would not include the change from vpatch 1
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09:51 PeterL but people would often want to include both
09:51 trinque you haven't loaded what I've said into your head, and I was in the original thread that resulted in the manifest.
09:53 trinque if one pressed all that could be pressed, why would order of unrelated patches matter *until* they create a conflict where there are multiple patches specifying the same antecedent.
09:53 trinque in which case, deciding which patch to use next is decidable if 1) no two authors are equal and 2) no author produces two patches with same antecedent
09:54 trinque two might point to the need for a permanent repudiation signal
09:54 trinque i.e. I should be able to say "sorry, I was an ass, and that patch should be shot on sight"
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09:55 trinque I may be wrong, but I'd like *that* idea critiqued.
09:55 PeterL but is that really dependent on the manifest at all?
09:55 trinque surely it's clear I'm saying the manifest is a bad hack.
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09:56 PeterL I think the manifest is unrealted (perhaps I am misunderstanding the flow you have envisioned?)
09:57 trinque please go take a look at asciilifeform's original v.py, and then the threads thereafter.
09:57 trinque and you'll see when and why the manifest came in.
09:57 PeterL yes, I have read them
09:59 trinque let's start from the top then. what problem did the manifest solve?
09:59 PeterL iirc, people made patches affecting different files, and to include both you had to press to one and then manually add the other patch
10:00 trinque please explain why you had to
10:00 PeterL so people started munging the readme, until the manifest was added as a more elegant solution
10:00 trinque hold on, you skipped over miles of territory taking people's decisions as self-evident reality
10:01 PeterL sorry, trying to summarize briefly
10:01 trinque where did this "press to" idea come from?
10:02 PeterL you tell v to press to a file, it patches all the antecedants and that file (am I not using the term correctly?)
10:03 trinque that's strange, because the causes proceed outward from genesis.vpatch, not backward from "head"
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10:05 PeterL I'm not sure I understand what you mean
10:06 trinque a vpatch is a transitive verb, and its direct object is the state produced by its antecedents.
10:07 trinque first there's the state produced by genesis, and then so following.
10:08 trinque brb, acquiring tacos
10:11 PeterL I guess it depends on if you say "here are a bunch of vpaches, build them" or "here are a bunch of vpaches, use whatever you need to get to x"?
10:11 * shinohai ponders whether trinque is referring to traditional tacos or the euphemism for same .....
10:25 PeterL the first option being a hand-manicured folder containing vpatches you want, the second being an algorithmically determined build that ignores extraneous vpatches and allows forks to be selected at time of press
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~ 35 minutes ~
11:01 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-01#1024001 <<< only one I've had is same bot that plagues #therealbitcoin $RND@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de
11:01 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-01 21:17:16 asciilifeform: shinohai: i've nfi from where is the uptick in spambots, but find it interesting that the traditional pill (+r) dunwork -- evidently perp has 'over 9000' preregged accts
~ 23 minutes ~
11:25 asciilifeform shinohai: the thing in #trb most likely aint a bot, but rather crawlers (and the occasional lamer) coming in via the kiwi-irc link on the trb www .
11:25 asciilifeform shinohai: for a short time i had these on my log www per-chan, but then removed
11:27 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-01#1024002 << i actually had read this same piece some yrs ago, but ended up stuck in an attempt to implement via solely integer arithm..
11:27 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-01 21:54:38 trinque: grunting through a little prototype of https://www.math.nyu.edu/media/mathfin/publications/TR2002-833.pdf
11:28 shinohai This one is, in fact, bot tho if the /whois info is correct - advertises self as "Jave IRC bot"
11:28 shinohai *Java
11:30 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024003 << i've not ever met him, nor did he bother to pgpsign his publications, so imho is quite impossible to discuss 'what snowden's original intent'. all we have re subj is the spew of various usg stooges, of the controlled-opposition variety, 'speaking for' him.
11:30 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 05:58:03 mats: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-30#1023787 << isnt that snowden's original intent? he wasnt looking to burn nsa to the ground, but expose the dragnet
11:32 asciilifeform that being said, why the fuck ~not~ burn it to the ground if you can ? why treat usg any differently than it treats you, when the tables are turned ? it aint as if usg hesitated to burn e.g. the branch davidians to the ground. was not content to 'simply expose' their (imaginary) crimes, no.
11:35 asciilifeform greenwald, poitras, & co. are complicit in keeping secrets for usg. ( and, afaik, w/out even being paid to ! or even having signed any nda ! ) and, consequently, complicit in perpetrating whatever usg atrocities are still enabled -- directly or otherwise -- by the nonpublication of the whole stash.
11:39 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024013 << this is a correct and afaik complete summary. recall my 'shiva' patch series for trb -- iirc was what originally provoked the question
11:39 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 09:51:16 PeterL: if the edits are to the same file, you just press to vpatch 1 or vpatch 2. if the edits are to different files, before adding the manifest, pressing to vpatch 1 would not include the change from vpatch 2, and pressing to vpatch 2 would not include the change from vpatch 1
11:41 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024019 << thus far folx have been doing this informally. but! in certain applications this won't do.
11:41 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 09:54:38 trinque: i.e. I should be able to say "sorry, I was an ass, and that patch should be shot on sight"
11:41 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-31 12:37:28 asciilifeform: trinque: imho this is still a useful line of thought, tho, for e.g. hypothetical vtronic p2p mirror system and any other large-scale apparatus which rides on wot.
11:42 asciilifeform apropos: at one time, asciilifeform proposed a concept of 'antipatch' for this.
11:43 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024022 << recall, i barfed at the time, but eventually gave in, because could not in fact think of any cleaner solution to the imho very real problem of 'spuriously independent' nodes on flowgraph.
11:43 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 09:55:36 trinque: surely it's clear I'm saying the manifest is a bad hack.
11:49 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024035 << it does: proceeds through the toposorted patches. (note, however, the implicit bug in the orig. vtron, where 'sibling' nodes on the dep. graph -- if present anywhere -- would not necessarily be handled correctly )
11:49 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 10:03:43 trinque: that's strange, because the causes proceed outward from genesis.vpatch, not backward from "head"
11:51 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024042 << 1 nitpick : in my orig. vtron, the presence of an extraneous piece was a fatal eggog by default. and there was no prompting to select anything, item ran 100% w/out user interaction.
11:51 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 10:25:58 PeterL: the first option being a hand-manicured folder containing vpatches you want, the second being an algorithmically determined build that ignores extraneous vpatches and allows forks to be selected at time of press
11:52 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
11:52 btcinfobot Current BTC price in USD: $13512.01
11:52 asciilifeform !w poll
11:52 watchglass Polling 16 nodes...
11:52 watchglass 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.104s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:52 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.089s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.133s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.117s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:52 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=654854 (Operator: whaack)
11:52 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.194s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.199s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.291s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391673 (Operator: jurov)
11:52 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.327s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655129
11:52 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : (182518.pk.3pp.slovanet.sk) Alive: (0.383s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=431470
11:53 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
~ 42 minutes ~
12:35 PeterL asciilifeform: did the original v.py not take an input as to what vpatch to build to?
12:38 PeterL re anti-patches, could you have a separate "repudiation key", where anything it signs gets ignored thereafter?
12:47 asciilifeform PeterL: orig v.py did take, precisely 1, patch-to-press-to .
12:49 asciilifeform PeterL: imho 'repudiation key' is wholly unnecessary gnarl. 'antipatch' imho is cleaner solution, though still would have to rescind the old chess-like 'may not recreate a past board position' rule, to make it work
12:50 asciilifeform ( rescind how ? simply permit a return to past state , strictly when the state is ~immediately~ preceding the patch being undone . )
12:53 mats asciilifeform: i forget where i heard him say it, but it would make sense that he wanted journos to censor material that's not relevant to legal activities, or he'd have put up a torrent / delivered to wikileaks
12:55 mats he makes live video appearances every now and again
12:57 asciilifeform mats: this aint hard to arrange for arbitrary script, w/ modern photoshopism. ( not to mention that 'not rock the boat further' was publicly a condition set by putin for so long as snowden sits in ru )
12:58 mats i'm not familiar with state of the art audio/video deepfakery, would it be undetectable?
12:58 asciilifeform re journos -- if he trusted'em to 'only publish relevant pieces' -- then idiot (who failed at 'kill the policeman in yer own head')
12:58 trinque asciilifeform: yeah wasn't proposing repudiation key. you're right, a revert patch is the obvious solution.
12:58 mats some of the audio stuff i've heard of obama, didn't sound so good
12:59 trinque I could've sworn there was a V which would just press all that could be pressed, but perhaps I dreamt it.
12:59 asciilifeform mats: undetectable when done properly, by pros (who start w/ a body double and work from there)
13:00 asciilifeform trinque: imho revert patch is the solution. would require a change to the toposort, however, to detect cycles of length 1.
13:00 mats the journos he picked turned out to be true believers in democracy, and poitras lives in the reich, so it actually worked out ok as far as he planned it
13:01 mats i'd have liked to read summaries of those docs but too bad
13:09 asciilifeform mats: 'worked out ok' in the sense of having ~0 detectable real-world effect. usg actually succeeded in neutralizing the leak, the many yrs of cultivating tame 'journalists' paid off.
13:10 asciilifeform these same 'journalists' incidentally nailed some unknown number of post-snowden leakers who did not make it outta the reich in time, and were dumb enuff to trust 'respectable journalists'
13:11 mats besides reality winner, who else?
13:11 asciilifeform mats: (by rumour strictly) the 'ant catalogue' fella.
13:12 asciilifeform ^ incidentally, the source of 100% of the actual technically-interesting dirt that is often misattributed to snowden
13:14 asciilifeform apropos: nothing at all has ever leaked publicly re nsa crypto. to this day. evidently whatever process used for plugging leaks of actually important info, works, when they actually want it to work.
13:17 mats is his name known?
13:17 asciilifeform mats: not afaik
13:17 asciilifeform only known that != snowden.
13:18 mats i remember some TAO(?) guy got pinned up for taking home and hoarding a ton of data in his garage
13:18 asciilifeform this, coupla yrs later ( 'wannacry'(tm)(r) & other goodies )
13:19 mats i hope tencent makes a shiny movie out of these episodes someday
13:19 mats like MSS rolling up the entire cia humint network inside .cn between '10 and 13
13:20 * asciilifeform recalls this
13:23 mats or the buckeye folks somehow having the eternalblue variant a year before the shadowbrokers faux auction
13:23 mats a real string of uninterrupted wins that must be demoralizing
13:24 mats who wants to be a walk-in when there's probably still a live nsa mole
13:26 asciilifeform the actual 'winner' will be whatever country is 1st to get the permanent fuck off microshit & poetteringware.
13:27 mats you read about the loongson news?
13:27 asciilifeform mats: nope. is it finally bankrupt ?
13:27 * asciilifeform haven't seen a product of theirs for sale, in either english or ru net, in many yrs
13:27 mats https://www.tomshardware.com/news/chinese-laptop-featuring-new-14nm-loongsoon-3a4000-cpu-appears
13:28 asciilifeform mats: i'ma file this under 'elbrus' until see 1 for sale..
13:30 asciilifeform mats: elbrus, if you recall, is the ru version of these. 1990s-performant cpu, offered at 1980s price point , with 1970s availability.
13:30 mats seems reasonable considering the renewed attacks on .cn semiconductor supply chain
13:31 mats beijing/SMIC can afford to pick off tsmc engineers one by one with massive comp packages
13:32 asciilifeform mats: it aint clear to me why 'chinese, national' cpu has to be made at enemy's tmsc.
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13:32 asciilifeform ( elbrus, incidentally, also made at tmsc )
13:32 asciilifeform 'national cpu' is a sad joke if it depends on outsourcing to enemy.
13:33 mats it doesn't, i'm sure its a stopgap since their domestic capability is so far behind
13:34 mats hopefully this trade war pushes that effort further along
13:37 mats https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3107496/taiwanese-wont-dare-visit-mainland-china-after-tv-spy some other recent espionage news
13:39 mats jives with claims from a retired tw spymaster that the covert war is as hot today as it was during the civil war
13:40 mats https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/2185537/taiwanese-spymaster-looks-back-killing-led-end-islands-martial for the curious
13:53 * asciilifeform does not follow the subj in realtime, but expects these to continue while usg remains inbiz
13:54 asciilifeform 'unsinkable aircraft carrier'(tm)(r)
~ 15 minutes ~
14:09 mats its a precarious situation for beijing, a military full of only children and enemies to the west and east
14:11 mats in my last msg of the day, i heard a congressman say beijing can build 1-1.5k aircraft carrier killer missiles at the same cost as an aircraft carrier warontherocks.com/2020/11/banks-and-moulton-on-military-might-and-the-american-future
14:11 asciilifeform mats: for so long as usg & cn nomenklatura intermarried, there'll be no wars
14:12 asciilifeform what yer seeing currently is threat circus, to justify gigabux expenditures on wunderwaffen
14:12 asciilifeform entirely mutually beneficial for the elites in question.
14:24 mats i cant resist, i dont expect the peace to last, how can the hindus possibly contain 1.38bn (and a projected 1.47 by 2030) starving people from surging east and west
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14:25 mats especially as the demographic decline in the west and china continues
~ 19 minutes ~
14:45 verisimilitude I'm typing this on a Loongson. It's a decent machine.
14:46 verisimilitude There's no mention of whether it features Free Software, as the Lemote Yeeloong does, unfortunately.
14:47 verisimilitude It also doesn't mention if it's another MIPS or not.
14:55 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i'ma aware that you own 1 of the early loongsons. and i expect that you know that they have not been seen, even on collector market, in some years.
14:55 * asciilifeform had been trying to buy 1 for rather long time; gave up
~ 37 minutes ~
15:32 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024143 << this is not much known in english sphere, but in ru there is a multigenerational psychosis re 'china will fill up, surge west, invade'. not happened yet.
15:32 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 14:24:45 mats: i cant resist, i dont expect the peace to last, how can the hindus possibly contain 1.38bn (and a projected 1.47 by 2030) starving people from surging east and west
15:33 asciilifeform ( the secret of 'why not' is imho very simple . )
15:33 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-29 11:45:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-29#1023733 << early orlov had a nifty piece re: how 'the permanent objective of usa's 1party state is the continuation of Business-As-Usual' .
15:33 asciilifeform all the current slave empires have exactly 1 strategic objective : 'business-as-usual'. ad infinitum.
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~ 50 minutes ~
16:24 verisimilitude I'm aware, yes, asciilifeform.
16:25 verisimilitude What amuses me about this is how I've seen some in the US tend to point to Russia as an example of doing things like this correctly.
16:25 verisimilitude ``Russia doesn't care if the machine is slow or heavy, just that it's made in Russia.''
16:28 verisimilitude It's insanity to let the Chinese have nearly complete dominion over the world's magic rocks, like bad fiction.
~ 24 minutes ~
16:53 feedbot http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/some-shower-thoughts-on-networks-and-referencing/ << Fixpoint -- Some shower thoughts on networks and referencing
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~ 22 minutes ~
17:15 trinque verisimilitude: not to oversimplify, but "what are you going to do about it?"
17:15 trinque this presumption that the west is still in the position of "letting" things doesn't appear to match reality.
17:21 asciilifeform ^
17:28 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024159 << asciilifeform strongly suspects that all thinking folx are doomed to eventually reinvent p2p hosting . ( trickier -- to actually make it go. and w/out reintroducing centralizations, as in e.g. mp's ludicrous 'gns' power grab propo
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17:28 snsabot Logged on 2020-11-02 16:53:08 feedbot: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/some-shower-thoughts-on-networks-and-referencing/ << Fixpoint -- Some shower thoughts on networks and referencing
17:28 snsabot Logged on 2020-03-19 12:32:20 asciilifeform: why the hell is a typical public www bound to 1 box? specifically, why could not exist as an auto-mirrorable directory of signed material ?
17:28 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-07 14:58:18 asciilifeform: PeterL: i won't presume to speak for trinque , but in asciilifeform's conception, the obv. Right Thing would be an item which rides atop ipv4 in the same sense that the latter once rode atop telco grid; and w/ cryptographic routing (i.e. yer address is a pubkey) and ciphration (i.e. messages readable strictly by addressee) . all else -- implementation detail.
17:28 asciilifeform sal; or the earlier, similar item in urbit; and other 'it's decentralized(tm) but really here's this magic piece i, fuhrer, control' crackpotteries.
17:32 asciilifeform afaik the last time somebody had the courage to attempt building a honest decentralized system -- was bitcoin.
17:34 shinohai But my Ethereum Name Service.
17:34 asciilifeform shinohai: lol
17:35 asciilifeform before that, iirc, there was 'namecoin' (died of 'altcoinism' iirc)
17:35 asciilifeform mining-is-a-bug(tm)(r)
17:36 asciilifeform ( see also : oblig. ancient crackpottery from asciilifeform re subj. )
17:36 shinohai I had a Namecoin .bit site a loooong time ago, forgot what I did with that. Prolly lost in the pile after I started coming to b.a/trilema
17:38 asciilifeform shinohai: no great loss; afaik thing's as dead as b.a at this pt
17:45 verisimilitude I like the idea that fabricating with older processes will become ever more available, trinque.
17:46 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i find it interesting that this has not -- despite various predictions -- happened, at any point.
17:46 verisimilitude There are machines running at speeds measured in megahertz which can easily beat the fastest modern machines, because they're more suited to the particulars.
17:46 asciilifeform verisimilitude: instead, the older processes go extinct, and the machinery which produced'em is scrapped.
17:46 verisimilitude It's entirely out of my control, but I still like the idea.
17:47 asciilifeform verisimilitude: see also asciilifeform's rather pessimistic pov re subj
17:47 snsabot (trilema) 2015-05-10 asciilifeform: which is, the basic idea of integrated circuit, as we know it, is inherently centralizing
17:47 verisimilitude It's a ``natural monopoly'' is it?
17:48 asciilifeform verisimilitude: not quite monopoly. but close.
17:48 asciilifeform ic fab is approx. as amenable to 'mom&pop shop' as is the satellite biz.
17:49 verisimilitude Oh, so all the seemingly independent businesses are actually just government stooges, akin to Tesla; alright.
17:49 asciilifeform verisimilitude: how many (nominally) independent fab houses can you think of ?
17:50 verisimilitude Only Chuck Moore comes to mind, and I'm not certain what he uses.
17:50 asciilifeform verisimilitude: moore afaik does not operate a fab and never has
17:51 asciilifeform i aint talking about design houses. these, there are thousands of.
17:51 verisimilitude I didn't know if he did or not.
17:51 asciilifeform but of fabs. y'know, the folx w/ cleanrooms, piped elemental fluorine gas, etc.
17:51 asciilifeform 1e9+ $ entry fee, to play.
17:54 asciilifeform iirc moore fabs at mosis co.
17:57 asciilifeform verisimilitude: many well-known historic chip vendors have been (and are to this day) fabless. e.g. sun, xilinx, nvidia, apple.
17:58 verisimilitude There's also AMD, yes.
17:58 verisimilitude That's a tad like ``owning'' gold as pieces of paper, isn't it?
17:58 asciilifeform even amd.
17:58 asciilifeform verisimilitude: from hygienic pov -- entirely similar.
18:00 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
19:20 feedbot http://mvdstandard.net/2020/11/very-special-livestream-tomorrow-to-celebrate-living-in-south-america/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Very Special Livestream Tomorrow To Celebrate Living In South America
19:21 BingoBoingo ^ asciilifeform and others interested in my experiments with live video
19:22 BingoBoingo Will also be doing a more typical format dive into muck starting around 23:00 tonight MVD time (GMT -3)
~ 15 minutes ~
19:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: neato. will try tuning in (nfi atm whether any of my boxes will actually show it)
~ 23 minutes ~
20:01 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Good rule of thumb is the more retarded the device and its stack are, the more likely that thing is to work
~ 3 hours 9 minutes ~
23:10 gregorynyssa verisimilitude: coincidentally I had the same conversation with asciilifeform two months ago. have a look at: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-22#1020105
23:10 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-22 12:44:06 asciilifeform: re (2) , 'start your own coarse-grained fabrication-facility' -- right after i open own spaceport, lol
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